The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 459: Josh Peck - Using Humor To Connect, Making The Big Ask, & The Power Of Vulnerability

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

Text Hawk to 66866 for "Mindful Monday" Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12    https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Josh Peck is an actor, comedian, author, entrepreneur, and YouTuber. He began his career as a child actor in the late 1990s and early 2000s and had an early role on The Amanda Show from 2000 to 2002. Josh rose to prominence for his role as Josh Nichols alongside Drake Bell's character in the Nickelodeon sitcom Drake & Josh. Josh Peck provided the voice of Eddie in the Ice Age franchise since Ice Age: The Meltdown and voiced Casey Jones in the Nickelodeon animated series Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. He also starred with John Stamos in the Fox comedy series Grandfathered. In 2017, Josh started a comedic lifestyle YouTube channel, Shua Vlogs, featuring his wife Paige O'Brien, David Dobrik, and many of the vlogsquad members. His new book is called Happy People Are Annoying. Notes: "Do good things and don't get caught doing them." Be of service to others. It seems when we focus on doing good things, good things seem to happen. When Josh was 8 years old, he felt powerless, insecure, and uncomfortable. He was having a family dinner during the holidays... He decided to commit fully to telling a joke. And he earned his first real laugh from his family. At that moment he said, "I decided what I wanted to do with my life." He became a stand-up comedian and eventually an actor. "Laughing is uncontrollable. It's so honest." How to add humor to your business meetings? "The only thing more compelling than a joke is honest vulnerability. Being willing to call yourself. Be human." That vulnerability will bring people closer to you. The power of listening: It helps you constantly make adjustments. Be open, free in the moment. Humor, acting, or leadership... All of those are acquired skills. You have to have the willingness to be bad at it first to get good at it later. Using a chip on your shoulder as motivation? It can work in the short term but doesn't typically work in the long term. "It was the wrong fuel for my engine." "You gotta ask:" When he was 12 years old, he found himself on set telling jokes to an older man. He was cracking the guy up. He didn't realize that person was the President of Nickelodeon. Josh then asked him to be on one of the hit Nickelodeon shows. He eventually got a call that changed his life. After that call, Josh and his mom moved to Los Angeles where he's worked as an actor ever since. You have to be willing to ask. You have to be willing to face rejection or embarrassment. Aaron Sorkin said you can make the hall of fame in baseball striking out 2 out of 3 times. The same is true in life. One of the first people Josh called when he was launching his podcast was Bob Saget. Bob was one of the more famous people he knew. And he immediately responded and said he would record the following week. There are hundreds of stories like this about him. We all should be more like him. Ryan Holiday advice - Get really honest and tell your story. Your journey can help other people. As a dad, Josh wants to correct the trauma of the past... He never met his dad. "Do good things and don't get caught doing them." Be in service of others.

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Welcome to The Learning Leader Show, presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Hawk to 6-6-866 to become part of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world, will receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right. You'll also receive details about how my new book, The Pursuit of Excellence, will help you become a more effective leader.

Text, Hawk to 66866. Now, on to tonight's featured leader. This is a treat. The great Josh Peck, an actor, comedian, YouTuber, podcaster, and now an author. He started working as a stand-up comedian and an actor when he was just 12 years old. He rose to prominence and starred in his own show

called Drake and Josh. He since gone on to act in movies, TV shows, and build multiple businesses in the entertainment field. His new book is called Happy People Are Annoying, and he'll describe why he chose that title on this episode. We also discuss the guts he showed as a 12-year-old to ask the president of Nickelodeon to put him on a hit TV show. And we talk about the importance of the importance of the world.

being willing to ask for what you want. And then he shares an emotional tribute to Bob Sagitt and why we should all strive to be more like him. And then I asked him how a leader in the corporate world can incorporate humor to be more effective. And I think you'll appreciate his answer and find it useful. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a great one. It's Josh Peck. All right, Josh, man. It's great to have you here on the Learning Leader Show. Welcome, man. What a pleasure, man. Thank you for having me. Of course. So to start, I always flip to the back of the book. And I did that with you. The very first person you thanked in the acknowledgement section is somebody who's been on this podcast five times. One of the original guys, Ryan Holiday, which whenever I find a mutual friend, I have to bring it up. And you said you met him 15 years ago. Tell me more about. your friendship and your connection with Ryan Holiday. So obviously, you've had them on five times.

I've known him 15 years. I only had them on my podcast twice. So first of all, I'm jealous, Ryan. Well done. And obviously, your listeners, I'm sure know, but, you know, is sort of the preeminent,

modern, you know, stoic master expert and has written, you know, so many great books. Ego is the enemy. And so this is the key. And so I met him 15 years ago. He was working as an assistant for my manager. And we just sort of like, this was before his time at American Apparel.

And he was just like this young kid. It's sometimes insane to me that I'm a year older than Ryan Holiday because I literally look at him like this father figure. Like this splinter type ninja turtles character, this sage of everything that is stoic and wise. But, you know, we sort of had this passing, you know, moment. We worked together for about an hour on a YouTube video. So this was like 2007. So, of course, Ryan was already at the forefront of one of the biggest social media movements ever. And 10 years later, I was starting this podcast.

I was just a big fan of Ryan's. I had forgotten, like, I didn't remember or I didn't put together that the Ryan that I loved reading, about and reading his books was the Ryan that I knew 10 years before. So I reach out over Instagram. He's like, you know, we know each other, right? And I was like, you're that Ryan? YouTube, Ryan? My manager's assistant, Ryan?

And we became good buddies ever since. And when I got tasked with writing this book, I said to myself, I had written this proposal. And I felt comfortable in that I had a voice and that I certainly had a story that I knew I wanted to convey. So I didn't want a ghostwriter, but what I knew I needed was a producer and someone that I could send pages to get their advice on, to see if I was on the right track. And I sort of danced around it with Ryan because I knew that he was such a titan in this world.

And he was kind enough to offer his services. And basically, I'd send him a chapter and he would rip it to shreds and tell me all the ways in which I was not, you know, diving in deep enough where I was trying to fake good or to cover myself in order to sort of save my ego or my image. But without his help, I certainly don't think the book would be anywhere near as happy as I am with it. Very cool. I want to dig into parts of this book. Happy people are annoying is the title. We're going to circle back to why it's titled that. But I want to go to a moment because I love these. inflection points in our lives where the trajectory is changed. And so here it is. And you're eight years

old. You're having a holiday dinner with your family. And you write that you made a commitment to tell a joke, a mildly dirty joke, I believe is what you said to family members. Take us back to that moment when you're eight years old. You're thinking about telling the joke. You then make the commitment to go for it and then what happens next and how it changed your life? So I'm eight years old. Up into that point, I'm the son of a single mom. We'd had been pretty financially insecure for most of my life.

And it had presented itself and us having to move a lot and just sort of like juke and jive and constantly find sort of the best way to get through life because my mom was this, this Tigris, this person who like was navigating this sort of. man's world and doing her best to care for her for her little son. So I was eight years old, feeling pretty powerless. I was chubby. So I'd always been, you know, insecure and not quite comfortable in my own skin. But I had watched my mom be this like wizard. She would come in a room and she would basically get all eyes on her in an instant. And I say in the book, you know,

people can be a lot of things. They can be too funny, or excuse me, they can be too angry. They can be too nice. Too nice isn't cute. But no one is ever too funny. Too funny is a magic trick. It's, you know, it's made the ugly attractive for a millennia. It's an incredible gift. And you can literally change the entire anatomy of a room, the moment that you employ it. So I was eight years old. I let this joke fire. I blacked out. I was like a kamikaze pilot going, here it comes. And I remember there's like a small moment where I'm like, oh my God, what's going to happen next? And then the room erupts in laughter. And it was literally my welcome into this world. I made a decision of vow that day in my own little baby brain that I was going to use this no matter what for the rest of my life

because I was like, suddenly I'm not the chubby eight-year-old. I am the king of this dinner. Wow. What did that initial feeling of getting the laugh? Like, what did that feel like? You know, it's, again, it's, it's immediate. A laugh, laughing is like crying. It's uncontrollable to a certain extent.

It's so damn honest. Colin Quinn has this great, sort of quote where he says comedy is the closest to justice because there's no interpreting whether or not it works. And Chris Rock talks about how they call it a punchline because it's like a punch and like if you're watching a boxing match, like every time you land a punch, you get a point for it. And so there's no interpretation. Look, I like the notebook. I'm going to say that on Ryan Hawk's podcast. I don't care. I want the world to know. My wife thinks it's cornbread. all nonsense. But we're allowed to both have different feelings about the notebook. There's no

interpreting comedy. It's like it either connected or it didn't. You got to laugh or not. And so feeling that in that moment, I was like, oh, this is, this is utter and pure validation. And I was, I was addicted from the moment I felt it. So I want to get practical for a second. And I want to go back to your story because there's a lot that I want to, I want to, to talk about. But I do love practical application too. So I'm thinking of, you know, the avatar I usually use Josh is someone that that was me. This is like the mid-level manager at a Fortune 500 company who's working really hard to build a team and culture and and exceed goals, right? And I've learned that being funny or adding humor into your Monday morning meetings or the way you owe you

open the meeting or close it or the way that you kind of add levity to a room that that it's kind of like stiff, you know, in some of these places. And so maybe I'm going to ask you the impossible question. But for that person, what are some kind of like, I don't know right. We ask, like general pieces of advice to add humor if maybe that's not natural or maybe they haven't really been doing this all of their life like you have. Like what are some just like basic tenants to add humor to a space to a room for a person who isn't inherently talented or gifted at this? You know, it's a great question. And to your point, I always say, like, funny people are usually funny for very unfunny reasons.

And so being comedic usually is a byproduct of some sort of struggle. It's a defense mechanism. Whenever I meet, you know, really good looking people, I always, and they're, you know, we're going tit for tap with jokes. I always want to say, I'm probably funnier than you, and that's okay, because I would have traded it to have your face. I trade it all. But again, I think, you know, when I interviewed Neil Brennan for my podcast, and he's a genius comedian writer and was helped create the Chappelle show. And he said, the one thing that Chappelle always talked about was like the only thing more compelling than like,

a perfectly executed joke is an honest moment. It's like a moment of true vulnerability. And while it seems like a weird path to take if you're trying to add a little levity to your PowerPoint or to your conference room meeting, I think this idea of not putting on airs, being willing to be vulnerable, to call yourself out in an awkward moment.

If you misspeak, if you have a moment where you show yourself to be utterly human, to the upper management of your company, not just trying to gloss over it or act like it never happen. You know, comedians talk about it a lot. Like, the worst part of bombing when you truly bomb is when is your inability to acknowledge what's happening, that your ego is so fractured that you can't even acknowledge and say, well, I'm a comedian.

And part of my job is this. I need to face plant right now and you're watching it. because then you're letting the air out of the balloon. And everyone else doesn't have to feel uncomfortable because they know you're not. So I would say, I think that's something that can be cultivated and earned, your ability in which to read the room, be vulnerable, and allow yourself your awkward human moments. I was on a, I'm going to shift again to acting for a second, Josh,

because what you just said made me think of this moment. I was speaking with someone who is an actor and an actress. she's been in a number of kind of good movies. And I asked her kind of like, it was probably an annoying question. I was like, what are the few keys to really being good? Because I've watched her on these movies and she's really good.

And she said something that surprised me. And she said, I focus so much on listening, on being in the moment with the person that I'm with in that scene. And when I'm really, really listening and like diving in and being there, obviously you have to be prepared and know what I'm going to say, but I like truly listen,

I find that I'm much better. What do you think about that when it comes to acting? And comedy too, because I've taken improv classes and things like that and listening is such a big part of improv. What do you think about this ability to become just in it and listen in order to be a better at your craft? I think that's such a great point.

And acting much like most sports, it's ballistic, right? It's not golf, you know, where the ball. is always in the same place. It's like you're constantly making these adjustments. And I think that your ability in which to be completely open and free in the moment, which I find to me is what results in the best acting, is by doing so much prep and so much work beforehand

that you can literally throw it all away. And so in all things, but especially in acting, It's like, you know, recently I was on this Disney Plus show called Turner & Hooch was a remake of the Tom Hanks film from the 80s. But in it, I played his son and I played a U.S. Marshall. Now, the show was like reasonably comedic with like a little bit of drama and a little bit of romance. And I said, well, I certainly know how to do the comedy parts.

I've done that for a while. And a lot of this feels familiar. But what I don't know how to do is look like a badass. And I certainly don't know how to look like a tough guy or anyone that you feel comfortable intervening in a bad situation. So I spent weeks with real U.S. Marshals, and I spent weeks going to Taryn Tactical, who teaches John Wick how to shoot a gun. And I did boxing and fight training for four months with my friend Justin Fortune, who went to a boxing gym in Hollywood. I just needed to have nonstop, you know, facing my discomfort, my,

all the ways in which that I feel like I'm not enough or that I'm not quite proficient at something and be willing to be embarrassed. David Mamet has the famous playwright has this great quote where he says, the easily shamed will never learn. And so by cultivating all that and truly living it, I could walk on set on those days and feel like I've done the work. It's all there. And now I can truly be free in this moment to listen and adjust to whatever the environment or the actor throws it me. So good. The preparation. Like in the keynote speaking world, there are some similarities to stand-up comedians. And I study stand-up comedians probably more than anything when it comes to becoming a better communicator and speaker. Because the best of the best, they wander up on stage and kind of grab the mic and walk around like they're just talking. They're just kind of going. They're just kind of hanging. Yet every single word has been carefully crafted into that sense. I watched Jerry Seinfeld's every single episode of comedian cars getting coffee and they talk about this. And I think that for some reason people don't feel like practices is part of that. And so for anyone who's going to get up and give a town hall speech or the Monday morning,

getting up and doing it and getting the reps over and over so that when it's game time, or in your case, like it's the cameras are rolling, you can just let it go because you've repped it so much. I sense that that's part of your process too, realizing, no, I can't just show up and just do it. I have to prepare and practice and rep it to death so that when it's time to go, just let it go. I can freely be me. And I sense that's a big part of you. Absolutely. I think I fell victim in acting and singing and even painting to a certain extent.

I find that this was something we all fell into a bit of a trap with. with musicians early on when this idea of like, oh, I'm self-taught, right? Because like the Juilliard musician wasn't sexy. It was like the guy who was, you know, playing riffs in his garage and then got discovered, like, that was cool. But like the reality is, is that, you know, I always thought that acting was like this weird alchemy that much like happiness or any of these things that for my life seemed unattainable, you had to be born into it.

that you just had to be like born at a certain BMI or like with a certain amount of money in your bank account or with perfect parents or what have you to like be able to seize the day. It had to be in your DNA. I didn't realize that it could be acquired by doing the right thing over and over. So, you know, and much like public speaking, it's easy to look at people who do it and think like, well, they just possess something that I do not. But to your point, it's like it's really just a grouping of the. basics, facing it over and over again and a willingness to be bad. I've seen so many people

who are not willing to look at the side of themselves that needs that growth, that needs that work, and they stay in this holding pattern. And sometimes it's a fabulous holding pattern. They're doing circles around Hawaii and they're just looking down. But it's like, I really want to see the world. I really want to push myself and not die having this idea. of like, I used my lack of growth as a safety net to feel like any failure I had was, well, I didn't really go for it. It's like, I'm going for it. And if I come up short, well, then at least I know I put everything behind it. How do you get over that? I noticed people who, let's say they've had, I don't love the word successful because that's defined so many of

rights, but we can use it for this purpose here. They've, in your case, being a child actor star. right. So you've had to deal with this. Sometimes I found people who let's say they've had success in one life category and maybe it's big time. They're afraid to go for it in something else or to go again because it's like how can I live up to that? So they'd say, well, it's just safer not to go for it because it could flop. It could be a failure when everybody already knows me as as this person who did this big thing. So how do you get through that? How do you push through this fear potential of oh, it's not going to live up to what I did before. I think there's, there is a part of me.

You know, when I was, I was 32 years old and I had a wife and a son. My son was almost a year old. And I was really at a crossroads because I'd had so much success early on in my career. And I'd sort of stalled out with my traditional career. But then I had this great success, this sort of second act in social media and speaking engagements in my podcast. and I in so many ways was really overpaid. My life on paper was so great,

and yet I was like perpetually uncomfortable because I felt like I had this thing gnawing at me, this voice that said I had unfinished business. And I called a friend of mine who I sort of look up to and is a bit of a mentor. And he said, you know, Josh, your life up until this point, but especially as a kid, was an anomaly. No one has this much success and prestige

as you had when you were a teenager. And if you continue to judge your life now against what it was then, you will be perpetually unhappy for the rest of your life. He said, but if you're now in your early 30s trying to figure out what the hell you're going to do, he's like, I would tell you you're probably in exactly the right place. And a big part of writing this book and why I love podcasts like yours

and in general, like any kind of leadership based or, is this idea of we're fed all day on Instagram and whatnot, sort of like the destination and this hustle culture and, you know, fitting 30 hours in a 24 hour day. I was watching the TikTok earlier where a guy was like, I live my life 15 minutes at a time. Everything's scheduled every 15 minutes.

I'm like, that seems challenging. But again, it's like this idea of it's okay to be utterly unsure of what's next, but by just doing the next indicated action, that you can compare yourself over who you were or what you did when you were a teenager. It's incredibly important to take the small wins and allow good life to be the result of good living instead of like this destination-based.

If I accumulate this amount of prestige, this amount of financial success, then and only then will I feel whole? I want to talk about your mom. She's a central character in the book for good reason and obviously in your life. And there's a quote, there's many quotes, but I like this one. She said she showed up for my entire life. A ship is safe in the harbor, but that ain't what ships are made for.

So I'm less interested in how you flex your yacht and more interested in how you fare in the rough seas. You make some of these metaphors and then make fun of yourself for making these metaphors in the book. It's really good. The book is it's so hard to write a book that's funny. It's amazingly hard. And you obviously have done it. Can you, can you share a little bit more about your story?

I mean, the story of your mom and your dad is, it's kind of heartbreaking, honestly, man, when I'm reading it at the beginning. But can you, can you share more about your backstory? And more specifically about your,

your mom and maybe her brief interaction with your dad and how that impacted you. Well, I think, Ryan, you're right. It was pretty brief. And what I like to think back to my mom and dad hugging up, I hope it was as brief as possible. You know, my mom had me when she was 43 years old. And so my mom is 77 now. And she had always wanted a kid, but had sort of assumed maybe it wasn't in the cards for her, especially in the 80s. It was just less normal for people in their 40s to have a kid. She was business acquaintances with my kids.

dad, he was sort of this older guy in his 60s. I say in the book, he was sort of this handsome raconteur, and don't worry, I don't know what that word means either, but they wound up having sort of this fling and she got pregnant and this guy who had been sort of this nice business acquaintance in her life who she had a friendly relationship with immediately turned off. He had a wife and kids and was terrified of what might come from having this random kid while he was in this mid-60s. I say in the book, my dad was getting Social Security

and chicks pregnant. And so, you know, my dad immediately exited my life, you know, since before I ever had a chance to even meet him. And so my mom and I were sort of tasked with figuring out the world together.

I was her son, but also kind of her partner in life. And I always say that I looked up to families growing up, and it seemed like sort of this closed corporation where the kids were the employees and the parents were upper management. But my mom and I were more of a startup. And, you know, some days the assistant got to pitch the big clients.

And in other days, the CEO was, you know, sweeping the floors. But she embodied this ability in which this strength that I don't know what it was a byproduct of, except that she had so many challenges growing up, being a businesswoman, a self-made business woman in the 80s, especially in such a man's world and having to navigate that. But no one was going to tell her that she wasn't going to be able to raise this young man. And so much of my success is due to her. How much how often as you're kind of growing up and you're starting to make it, you're becoming a TV star. There's a lot out there, like usually in the sports world of,

of these athletes who placed the chip on their shoulder because of something from earlier in their life. Maybe a coach doubted them. They didn't get a scholarship offer. They went to junior cut, whatever. In years, you have like the ultimate one, I'm guessing. But is that something like, did you use it as fuel? You're being upset probably at him.

I don't know what this is like. You know, both my mom and my dad are my heroes. So I'm curious, like, what was it like for you? did you place that chip? Do you still have that chip? Or I was like, no, I just focused on trying to help my mom out and wanted to make it for her. Or both, maybe, I guess. Well, it's such a, you bring up such a great point.

And thank God for admonishing and judgmental or even bad dads, because we probably wouldn't have some of the great pro athletes of the last hundred years. I mean, it's true. I mean, having a chip on your shoulder and using that as fuel can work for a really long time And to your point, you know, I, when I was dealing with dad issues that came up for me throughout a lot of my life and especially in my 20s and then inevitably when I had a child in my own, I never was angry or frustrated or resentful with my father. I was angry with God because it seemed as though this all seemed to track that I didn't

have a dad. I was fat. I was on television, you know, single mom. The music. musical theater kids, so I didn't have any of like the standard sort of things that make guys feel masculine and whatnot. So I just constantly felt less than, especially being overweight. I felt like I walked into every room at a disadvantage and it was incumbent on me to win the room over. So I felt perpetually unique and different than and just not cool. And so that was a huge driver for me because I was going to show the world. If the world was going to be unfair, then I would be unfair right back. And I would prove to you and everyone I came into contact with why I was a value, why I deserved your respect. And it worked great until it didn't.

And my friend Brian Kavelman has this great quote about it was like, it was like the wrong fuel for my engine. It like burned dirty. So it was like your car's going to run, but eventually it will erode your engine. And that was where I was, you know, at these pivotal inflection points that I talk about throughout the book when I was 17 and decided to lose 100 pounds when I was 21 and had to get sober from drugs and alcohol where I was, you know, putting my life on the line every night for four years. And inevitably then when I transitioned from, you know, working as an actor to social

media and that business I built, they were these moments where I had to let go of that old story, that old fuel and work to accept what this new sort of thing was, what was right for me. You mentioned multiple times already, and it's throughout the book about your weight loss. What, what can you, can you walk me through your mindset towards getting to the point where you're like, you know what, I've got to, I've got to do something about this. And then how you did it? How are you? Because it's, it's easy to say, like, we all would probably say that if we find ourselves

needing to lose 100 pounds plus, but it's another thing to actually do it. So where were you when you made that decision? What made you, what made you say, okay, I'm going to do this and then actually go and do it? I had seen my mom have struggles with her weight throughout a lot of my life. So I knew, you know, I knew my grandfather had dropped dead. at 50 and you know this was in the 60s but he was you know he ate and smoked and drank and I was like oh I that seems like a great time that seems seems like a good Wednesday night for me but it doesn't exactly do a lot for your overall um you know cardiovascular health and so I knew it was a menacing

force to the pecks in addition I fell in love with acting when I was 14 and At that time in the early 2000s, you know, as an overweight actor, you were relegated to two parts, the bully and the best friend. And it was so limiting. And I was able to secure this role in a movie called Mean Creek where I played this tragic. He was a bully type, but he lacked friends and he was misunderstood and had learning disabilities and throughout the movie and he was hilarious moments. And throughout the movie, he really grew to feel for this kid and love him. and it was the first time I'd ever gotten to play someone so three-dimensional. And then the world loved the movie.

The reviews were great and I got great feedback for my performance. And I said at 16 or 17, I was like, I can't wait another 10 years for a part like this to come. There was no Jonah Hill or Seth Rogen, you know, bigger guys trailblazing, you know, that kind of acting at that point. it was just there were two parts. So it was at that moment where I said, I really want to be able to join the ranks of the people that I look up to. And if I'm ever going to have a chance, I'm going to have to get in shape.

But also it was a moment where I said, and if given the choice I could be a famous movie star but 300 pounds or just a normal guy who works at their local supermarket, but then I would pick the ladder and that was when I took the leap. How'd you do it? Oh my gosh. I, uh, you know, I was doing, listen, I've been doing Atkins since, uh, before it was cool, before they renamed a keto.

Shout out Dr. Atkins, who really got dragged for, for his diet while he was alive. Um, yeah, I mean, I basically instead of the way I did it for years as a kid, which was immediately cut out sugar and carbohydrates and just the protein, I literally had to make the choice to live to fight another day. And that meant that if I slipped, if I was human, and I ate some food that wasn't great, I would get back on the horse the next day and try to do a little bit better. And it was the first time I really embraced exercise and fitness.

So it was sort of this two-tiered approach that I had never done before. the other part of your story is drugs um i was i was actually i was reading rereading this morning about this part in the book about your drug use and uh i was surprised because it i thought you're going to talk about you know these amazing highs and and all this and in a way you um i mean paraphrasing but essentially you said it kind of made you feel normal it kind of made you feel typical And that was a little surprising. Obviously, you had to get off of them. But can you share more about that part of your life and how it made you feel typical, normal, and then why you had to stop?

Well, I think it, you know, at 18 years old, I had lost 100 pounds, but I had the same head in a new body. And I had let go of my medicine. You know, I had been using food as this way to numb kind of that, that shitty committee that would wake up with. me every morning and tell me all the reasons why I wasn't enough. And all that anger that I still had bottled up towards my father and just my sort of situation. I mean, in so many ways, I was so overpaid and lucky to be able to act on the level in which I was having my own TV show. And yet, I was so deeply insecure by some of the feedback I would get and people seeing me this way. And so I needed to sort of transition and find the next thing. And so when I found drugs and alcohol,

I was like, oh, this is so much so much more efficacious and it's no calories. I was like, well, maybe the alcohol, but let's be honest, I wasn't super interested in that. It was more of the drugs. And I say, like, when I traded drugs for food, it was like trading a Prius for a Ferrari with no brakes. Like, I was going to get to where I was going faster, but I might die in the process. And it worked beautifully. And to your point, as you said, I expected hard drugs to be. like what we learned hallucinogenics to be like this warping of your world.

But I think what's so insidious about them, especially for someone like me, is that when I did it, I just felt calm. I felt like this wave of euphoria come over me. And it just slightly changed my perception of the way I saw the world, the way I felt I presented to the world. I felt more interesting and confident and attractive. and I'll never forget the night that I got home and I sort of had been high at this party and I was just, I had the greatest time ever.

And normally parties were like a big red zone for me because I was so awkward and uncomfortable that it just was like something I never wanted to participate in. And I remember lying in bed that night and thinking, why would I ever want to feel any other way? And that became the next four years where I didn't really have a sober breath for four years. straight. So, wow. It was, yeah, it was certainly a strong influence on me. There's another part of your career that I loved learning about because when I see the difference between people who make it happen versus the ones who just kind of talk about it or dream about it, but then don't do it, is they have the guts and the willingness to ask. There's amazing Steve Jobs video.

by the way that I can link it in the show notes, but essentially it's when he's 12 years old, he wanted some spare parts to build a frequency counter and he calls up Bill Hewlett right out of the phone book. And then later he expounds upon the story about, you know, the difference between people who dream about things and people who do things is they have the willingness to ask, the willingness to fail. And there's a moment earlier in your career where you find you, I think you're on set for a show and you find yourself talking to an older guy. And I read, that you're kind of telling him jokes. I think he's loving it, right?

It's going well, but I don't think you knew at the time who the guy was. And later somebody tells you, I believe it's the president or the head of Nickelodeon. Is that correct? I'm getting the story right. Yes. And I think the person encouraged you to kind of push him to ask for to be a part of another big show. Can you share that story and maybe even expand on how having the willingness to go for it, to ask to risk rejection has helped you in your life.

Yeah, it's it's kind of the story that changed my life forever. You know, at 12 years old, I was an actor in New York. I was a stand-of-comedian. And so I would find myself going. That's crazy. I have like 13, 14-year-old kids. I'm like, I can't leave you're 12 and you did this, dude. Anyway, just like it's nuts.

It's so nuts. Like I should have been at Little League and literally I met like the comedy seller like putting their liquor license at risk, you know, making fun of my mom on stage. But I, you know, and so I would constantly auditioning Nicolode because I was like right. I was the perfect flavor for what they were looking for. I was young, chubby and ambitious. And so every other day I'd find myself at their headquarters at 1515 Broadway and I'd be auditioning for a TV show or a commercial or something. they had going on. So I booked this movie that they're making called Snow Day with Chris Elliott and Chevy Chase and I'm on set and I had auditioned for this show which was like my

holy grail called All That, which was basically SNL for kids and it launched the careers of Amanda Bines and Kenan Thompson and Nick Cannon and I had auditioned so many times I can never get the part and so one day I happened to me making this guy laugh and his name was Albie Hecht and he was the president of Nickelodeon and it's gone on to be just a maverick in the entertainment industry. My mom sort of sidles up to me and she's like, you know who you're making laugh? That's the president of Nickelodeon. And I was like, oh, the guy's a great audience. And she's like, you should tell him you want to be on all that. And so I did. And I say it in the book, like the chutzpah, it took for, you know, me, Josh Peck, president of nothing to tell the

president of Nickelodeon that I wanted and he should have me on one of his TV shows. And wouldn't you know, nine months later, we got a call from him. And he said, Josh, I want to let you know that Snow Day came out this weekend. And it's a big hit. So congrats. And also, I'm moving your mom and you out to California to be on the Amanda show, which was the sequel or the sort of the follow up to all that. And that's where I met Drake. And six months later, we were making Drake and Josh.

So you're right. I shot my shot. I mean, can you share more about this? I think just kind of a life lesson of having the guts and the willingness to ask, to not, because my whole feeling is like if they reject you, it's like, where you're in the same space. Like, yeah, you might have been embarrassed a little bit, but you're still, you're left in the same spot. But I guess that's easier said than done. My first job after I got done playing sports in college was a cold calling 60, 70 times a day type

sales job. So, you know, you get hung up on and rejected 60, 70 times a day. It was like, okay, you get conditioned to that over when you do it for years to where I feel like I'm kind of numb and don't care at all about rejection to anymore. But I realize that that's maybe not normal. You did this when you're young and probably learned a valuable life lesson that you've got to go for it if you want to have a shot for something big to happen. Yeah, I mean, you know, Aaron Sorkin has this great quote where he says, a Hall of Fame. baseball player, or I'm sorry, he says, a baseball player who strikes out two out of three times will still go to the Hall of Fame. And I just love this idea that like, you can literally

have a losing average and still be far away, you know, more successful and further ahead than most people. Because to your point, the willingness, you know, it's, and it's all deeply embedded in our ego, the idea of rejection, validation. You know, I've heard so many times, I've, I've, you know, when you work in entertainment and, and, you know, you get to work with, like, very attractive people many times. And I'll, you know, you'll chat with an actress or someone, and they'll talk about how, like, little they get hit on because people are so intimidated by them. Like, they're so afraid to, like, shoot their shot. And you think, like, you, you have problems finding a nice guy? And they'll be like, well, yeah, because, like, they live in a room,

they treat me like, you know, the plague. And so I think they're, is a balance to having, A, having that willingness to put yourself out there. And when I interviewed, I got to interview like Gary Vaynerchuk and Damon John for my podcast. And I asked him, how long do you mourn a loss? Because for me, when I put something really, you know, something I care about and I put a lot behind it, it could take me days, weeks. I'll be honest, weeks, Ryan, to like shake off a loss. You know, I take it personal and it hurts. And they both pretty much similarly thought for a minute and said minutes. Wow.

Like I'm more in a loss for minutes. And I'm like, oh, well, that's why I'm interviewing you guys and you're not interviewing me. I'm like, because that's how you keep hitting. You don't allow it to affect your self-worth. You just continue on knowing that that's just a part of a part of it. And then also I would say, you have to assume that people, I talk about that guy Albi Hacked who gave me the part of me. to show. I say sometimes you, a lot of times you meet other people in boats and sometimes you meet the

water. And a guy like Galby was a guy who could raise you. Like, and when the water rose, you rose with him. And you have to assume that people like that are constantly being hit up for things and they're constantly being asked favors. So what value can you bring them? You're never going to be able to meet them completely on their level. You'll never be able to, you know, you're not the president of any thing in theory. But like, what do you have that's specific to you that you think you can bring to this person? Not as like a bartering thing, but just like as a sign of goodwill. So you don't feel like a total taker. No, I think it's just like a critical moment. I love it when stories like that happen, you know, especially when there's other there other tough parts. I saw, I saw as an aside,

but this is, I think, important because this guy from afar played a big role in my life. I loved a full house. I saw a picture of you and Bob Sagitt. And the thing that's, you know, it's such a, just a bummer, even to somebody who did not know him, obviously personally, and you did. But the thing that I think is cool is like all of, like it's inspiring in a way of all of the people that have come out and said universally, like, what an awesome dude. Can you share a little more about?

what he meant to you and what type of guy he was. I'm so glad you brought that up. I think there's two things specifically that's relatable to your listeners as well. The first is his, when I started my podcast, I text him. And we were friendly for sure. And we had met a handful of times. This is five years ago because John Stamos and I had made a TV show called grandfather together. But I certainly was much closer to people who I had texted.

about my podcast who were not even close to as famous as Bob, who either ghosted me or pushed me off to an assistant. And I understand that people are busy. And I don't need to tell you, Ryan, how tough this podcast game is when finding, you know, people to interview. It's just you're constantly, you know, jukeying and driving, trying to get a guest every week. But Bob literally texts me back in minutes and was like, come to my house next week. And this was a guy. who like, who didn't have to say yes. And yet it seemed like he, I wasn't the only person that that happened with. That there were, you know, hundreds of stories of him saying yes to people.

And, you know, and was it, was it just for the good karma? Was it because he loved working? You know, he didn't talk about this a lot, but he's like one of the rare people who had two number one shows on the air at the same time, which was Bull House and America's Funniest's Home Video. And then how I met your mother and stand up in Broadway. Like he was so accomplished and yet he loved to work. He never took a day off.

And but, you know, I always say this. It's like you got to do for other people because at the very least, the karma of it, the feeling you'll get from being of service to others is you've already been fully repaid in that moment, not making it about you, getting out of self. But you also will find that like putting that goodwill out into the world comes back to you in the most unexpected ways and accruing that goodwill. And a guy like Bob certainly had that.

You know, he was so there for others and thus we wanted to be there for Bob. I'm curious because there are a lot of people who have accomplished a lot that may be listening and thinking about this. And sometimes you encounter these people and you could tell like it's got to them. and I mean not in a good way. And, you know, this may be weird, but I could tell like within probably 30 seconds of us connecting here. I, leading up to this, I had high expectations.

I could tell from afar you seem like a good guy. And then from the second we've connected, I'm like, oh, my God, this guy is a funny, normal, really nice, down-to-earth guy. Is that like, what's the best way to say this? it seems like that could be hard to be that way after having all of the stuff that has happened to you. What I mean by that is being famous, having success in multiple life categories, reinventing yourself, like all these amazing things where you could easily have a pretty big head, think you're better than other people, and act that way. And people would be like, yeah, I get it. It makes sense.

But you're not. So what's in place in your life to ensure that that hasn't and doesn't happen? I think a major part of it was acknowledging the silver lining of the struggles of being overweight as a kid. You know, I talk about in the book, when I lost weight, I didn't want people to ever talk about it again. I didn't want to be interviewed about it. I could have never imagined it 19 talking this openly as I am today.

But it took me that long, almost 15 years to honor my origin story, that it wasn't something to be ashamed of. I couldn't just, you know, swear my family to secrecy and burn my yearbooks because my awkward teenage years are in reruns. And it's about honoring, you know, God willing, and this was a great, great advice from Ryan Holiday when he read the chapter where I talked about losing weight. He's like, you know, this could be the funniest book in the world, you know, don't worry, it won't be. He's like, but you're good at jokes. He's like, if you don't get really honest, you're not going to help anyone. And they're not going to care about what you've been through.

If it's just about, you know, funny anecdotes. So I feel honored now that my journey could have perhaps been beneficial to other people. You know, help your fellows vote to the other side and yours two will cross. How I've benefited from perspective from people. other people who are summiting the same mountain and have said, oh, I was just down where you are, you know, two hours ago. Here were the holds that I used that seemed to help me. I hope they help you too. So the power of me too has been something that's been so impactful in my life. And I think I'm lucky because I happen to be good at something or I like something where I get to play

pretend and wear makeup and costumes and whatnot. But like everything that happens outside of action and cut. I'm not too interested in. I never really cared about the billboards. I like getting early check-in at my local Marriott if, you know, if the front desk person recognizes me, like if I'm doing a speaking gig in Des Moines and I get in a little early and I'm like, oh, good, I get to lay down an extra hour earlier. Like, it's been great to be on Drake and Josh. But other than that, you know, all sort of the byproducts of fame or celebrity, what have you, have never been a big, never really interested me. Interesting.

Why are happy people annoying? I think that that was my initial idea of like that happy people, successful people, again, as I said, they were born into this thing, that they were just like given this playbook at birth that I was not, you know, that I wasn't given. And what I found now is that happiness isn't a doubt. destination, it's an action and that a good life is the result of good living. And, you know, I wasn't handed at so many of these things that I had seen so many of my friends and people I grew up with. It seemed that they were handed. And yet, through trial and tribulation, through walking

through life, accepting life on life's terms, I was able to sort of navigate kind of this weird, odd existence of growing up on television, of dealing with the dad stuff, drugs, stuff, weight stuff, and come out of it, realizing how deeply lucky I am. And suddenly, you know, my life reflected that of a good man because I had done the right thing over and over again for long enough to where suddenly my life was like something I could not have recognized as a kid. How about you as a dad?

To me, I think it's like I had an amazing model. I have an amazing model. And that makes it in a way, like I didn't realize how lucky I was until I kind of got older, had kids and looked around at others who didn't, who doesn't, who don't have that same amazing model. How do you go from not having a model of an awesome dad to trying to be one yourself? It's a great question. It was my deepest fear.

my wife and I didn't find out the sex of our kid. And so it was so fun for nine months and we're wondering. And I was like, you know, I have done enough musical theater that this is going to be a girl. I know it. Like I'm not, I don't make boys, you know. And yet when that doctor, you know, turned and said, what is it? You know, announced it to the room, dad. And I was like, it's a boy.

I was like, of course. Like, because it felt like this cosmic comeuppance. it felt like my opportunity to rectify a bad, you know, this elliptical sort of bad feedback wheel that had been going on for so long. And sometimes we don't get the apology we deserve. Sometimes, you know, my dad has passed away and I never met him. So I'm never, I was never going to get the apology from him. But sometimes we correct trauma by not giving it to the next generation. You know, sometimes it's not about having that gigantic moment of like, apology. It's just being aware of it and doing the work so that you don't pass it on to the

next. So I knew that I needed to have a boy so I could give him what I felt like I didn't have. And I remember a buddy of mine said something specifically. He was like having a child and being a dad is about reassuring your child that you are going to be there for them through pain and that they have to do it and they might get hurt in the process, but you are going to be there to see. them through it every step of the way. I think he just was attributing that to learning how to ride a bike. But nevertheless, I find it's an overarching like, you're going to have to do it. You might skin your knee. It might be uncomfortable, but I'll be there with you every step of the way. And I knew I could do that. One of the things my wife and I've been talking about recently is just this idea of

loving them unconditionally. And what that means is there are no conditions that come with our love. they are there. It's there no matter what. And I like love looking in the eye and saying like, we will love you unconditionally. There are no conditions with that. That's how it's going to be. I think it's important. It's like verbalized. Say those words. So it's, it's so cool, man, like to hear your story. One more, one more question before we run, man. Let's say there's somebody's kind of earlier on in their career, maybe a recent college grad, early to mid-20s. And they want to, they want to do good. They want to, they want to, they want to leave. their dent in a special way to impact people. They want to be a productive achiever, right? Achieve things, but do it in a way that's productive for society. What are some general pieces

of life slash career advice you would give to that person? I would say, like I said before, be of service to others, you know, help your fellows both to the other side and yours two will cross. It will make you indispensable. Do good things and don't get caught doing them. I just think it's a really important adage to have, again, like I had my friend Dylan Lowy on my pod and he was a speechwriter for President Biden when he was vice president. And he talks about like just at the minimum, you are fully paid back by doing for others because of how you feel after doing it. And at a maximum, you help someone find a job.

You connect people. Like the byproduct of that is just going to be like more success. people wanting to do for you, people keeping you top of mind when there's an opportunity. So many instances, especially in social media and the businesses I've created in that sense, you know, just being, doing a good job for the people that are in between me and the corporations so that when they're pitching to your point, a Fortune 500, Fortune 100 company, like I'm in their top three people that are getting brought up because sometimes it's as easy as that. It's, you know, there's always going to be someone with better metrics than me, someone who's got more followers, someone who's hotter on TikTok.

I just have to accept it. But they might not be as quick to write an email back. They might not be as easy to work with. They might just not be the package that I'm presenting. So, yeah, I think it's really, you know, if we, it's so easy when you're 23, 24 to be like, I have this awesome education. I'm ready to take on the world. And I need to go rip success and prestige from. life, but allow that to be a byproduct of good living. And I think you'll be in a much better place.

I love it, man. The book is called Happy People Are Annoying. And I'm tearing through this thing multiple times. By the way, I would just off a complete aside. I appreciate the whatever copy I was sent, a digital one, still had red lines through certain little little bits, meaning. Oh, wow. I know from just turning in manuscripts, there's, there's, you know, that's part of the process. In a way, it made me feel good. Even this guy, Josh Peck, this amazing writer, he's so funny, but he still makes mistakes in his books too. There's red lines and parts of it like crossing out words, which in a weird way just made me feel a little bit better because I've certainly seen my share of red ink through drafts of my books. So great,

awesome talking to you, man. And I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress. I've really enjoyed getting a chance to meet you, man. Oh, what a pleasure, Ryan. Thank you so much for having me. You're awesome at this. Thank you so much, man. I said it when we were recording, but from the second that Josh and I connected on Zoom

prior to clicking record, what a kind, down to earth, funny, and just a good dude, and he emailed me afterwards and promised to keep in touch, and that's one of my goals with doing this show is maintaining and building relationships beyond just the hour we spent together recording.

So I think you'll probably tell I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope you did, too, a few takeaways from my notes. That moment when he was eight years old, he committed to telling the joke to his family, and he earned the laugh. In life, it's hard to earn it without committing fully to it. Whether it's telling a joke, giving a speech, or going for a job, whatever may be.

Committing fully gives us the best. best chance to make it happen. Then when I asked them about how to add humor into your meetings as a leader, he said, the only thing more compelling than a joke is honesty, vulnerability, and being willing to call yourself out. Be human. You have to remove your ego to do this. This builds connection with your team and can be really funny too. And then do good things and don't get caught doing them. Be of service to others. I love that line. Do good things and don't get caught doing them. Do them because of the right things to do. I think if we behave this way consistently, things just seem to have a way of working themselves out. Once again, I want to say thank you for continuing to spread the message

and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Josh Peck. Not only is it really funny and the stories are great, I think the lessons will help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that and you continue to write reviews on Apple Podcasts and hopefully rate the show five stars, you continue to give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can we?