The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 476: Kat Cole - Pragmatic Optimism, Reflection Questions, Humble Confidence, Building Trust, & The Hot Shot Rule

Episode Date: June 12, 2022

Text Hawk to 66866 to become part of "Mindful Monday," and join tens of thousands of Learning Leaders who receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week of right... Full show notes at www. LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12    https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Kat Cole is the President, COO, and board member at Athletic Greens. She was previously President and COO at Focus Brands, the parent company of Cinnabon, Auntie Anne's, Moe's, Schlotzsky's, McAllister's, Carvel, Seattle's Best Coffee International, and Jamba. She oversaw all businesses, their 6,000 operations globally, and the multi-brand licensing and CPG business with 90,000+ points of retail distribution. She has more than 20 years of operational, brand, and executive leadership experience and has an MBA from Georgia State University and an honorary Doctorate from Johnson and Wales University. This episode was recorded at the Insight Global Headquarters in Atlanta, GA as part of the Women's Leadership Council "Raise Your Hand, Raise Your Voice" event.  Notes: A pragmatic optimist: When Kat was 9 years old, Kat's mom decided to leave her dad. Her dad was an alcoholic. Kat has two younger sisters. Kat was in multiple car accidents with her dad while he was driving drunk. At the age of 9, Kat looked at her mom and said, "What took you so long?" She learned that "the people who are closest to the action know what to do long before the senior leaders do. But they lack the language to articulate the problem and the solution. And they lack the authority to do something about it." "I learned to stay incredibly close to the people who are close to the action from that moment." "With all that he did, my mother never spoke ill of my father. I remember in all of those years, we were super poor. Taking meat scraps from the butcher. I remember one holiday season we were driving around looking at holiday lights. We went through the fancy neighborhoods and she said, 'isn't that beautiful, they must work so hard.' There are these things I absorbed that I started expecting from leaders. I learned to be grounded in the practical (the pragmatic part), but still optimistic because a whole lot is possible with very little, especially if the leader stays close to the action." "I am a learning leader. Learning is my currency." Oh! I get to do something new and I can help people, and I can make money doing it. And money is freedom because it's independence."  "When we left my dad, my mom only had one goal, all she wanted was to raise three independent girls. Our willingness to be independent was her north star." Kat got a job at Hooters and quickly set the record for "close-opens." The shifts where you close the restaurant and open it the next day. She did it 22 straight days. She was then asked to travel to Sydney, Australia and open a new restaurant. She had never left the country and didn't have a passport. She said yes anyway.  She went on to open restaurants on four continents before she was twenty.  How to build trust: It's important to lead through action, not just words. Something as simple as when we get together in person, take time to buy the donuts and coffee or some AG1. Just that effort to find a way to do something that shows you care about their experience. I don't need to say 'I thought of you.' It is obvious." "In my role, my success is your success. Your success comes from me removing friction for you." Vulnerability - Lead with vulnerability first. Share your story.  Holding people accountable - A players do not like seeing B players, C players, people who don't give their best being given equal opportunity. Someone needs to be in control, expectations are communiated and managed, and the leader is keeping us on the tracks. You have to hold people accountable.  Conflict resolution - On Friday night a regular patron would go to Hooters with his friends and order 50 wings... "After finishing the wings, he would call me over and say, 'there was only 40 wings.' He did this 4 weeks in a row. "The 4th Friday, he comes, orders 50 wings, and while they were finishing, before he finished, and I on my own waitress discount ordered 10 wings, and brought them to him. And winked. And his buddies busted out in laugher, and he said, 'good one' and tipped me 100 bucks."  "Don't confuse my kindness for weakness or stupidity. I'm generous. I'm thoughtful. I'm caring. I assume positive intent first, but I'm not going to be taken advantage of." "Confidence is not an old school overly masculine swagger, I know what I'm doing, I've got this. It's a humble confidence. It's not I know what I'm doing, it's I know I can figure this out. My confidence is deeply humble. I have screwed up so many times. I spent 10 years doing humanitarian work on the border of Ethiopia. I know what bad actually looks like. Which keeps western world business bad equally in perspective. That helps me chill. And that translates as ease. And ease translates as calm. And calm translates as both maturity and confidence. But it's actually from perspective." "Confidence is built doing many new things where you are repeatedly uncomfortable." Humble confidence is like from The Mandolorian, "This is the way." "Traditional confidence, that swagger, can be successful. And can drive outcomes, but the teams don't last very long. But the humble confidence is a learning leader. Any leader who suggests they know the way will be wrong at some points. Teams won't last as long if they don't have humble confidence." Productive achievers: The behaviors of the most successful humans have these four qualities: Courage & Confidence + Curiosity & Humility -- They must be equally balanced.  Speaking up - "If you are speaking up with the expectation of a specific outcome, you will always be disapointed. Period. That may be part of the problem. But if speaking up is about contributing and pushing the conversation forward, you're sort of lowering the expecation of the outcome. So I have very low expectation on the impact I make, but I don't expect one hand raise or one memo to change the world. But I do believe in participation." As a first time vice president at Hooters, Kat was 26 years old. She's at the table and every one of her peers was in their 50's. They had been in business longer than she had been alive. Kat's "Hot Shot Rule." The Hotshot Rule is the act of thinking of someone Kat admires, then pausing, reflecting, and asking what they would do in her situation/shoes/role, then answering what that one thing is and acting on it. The answer tends to appear quickly because it seems to be clear when you think about it through someone else's lens. That alone doesn't create change - the trick is taking action on it right away and then telling someone - the person it benefits, the person you envisioned who inspired you, or just someone you know will appreciate the change you've made. "Every time I tell my team, husband, or friend about the one thing I've done differently after the exercise, they say, 'What took you so long?' Or 'Finally!'" Kat's Monthly Reflection Questions: What has been the best part of the last 30 days? What has been the worst part of the last 30 days? Tell me one thing that I can do differently to be a better partner/teammate? What has worried you the most in the last 30 days? What is one thing you are most proud of in the last 30 days? What have you been most grateful for?

I'm a learning leader. Learning is my currency. And so no one who started offering me jobs. And many people did could offer me that complexity and learning. And it's why I stayed for so long. This episode is brought to you by one of my favorites. It is Storyworth. Storyworth is an amazing gift for you and your loved ones.

Essentially what it is is you sign up for Storyworth. And they help you supply a loved one. with a question a week. So, in my case, I did this with my dad, and Storyworth would send him one question per week, and he would answer them, and sometimes even add some cool pictures to make it more visually appealing

to go along with his amazing writing. And then at the end of 52 weeks, Storyworth puts this together in a beautiful book, which I now have on my bookshelves at home. Along the way, I also got to read my dad's answer. So this is something that my family will treasure forever. He actually printed a number of copies and gave them to each of his kids. I would highly encourage you to do this.

I even got to ask some of the questions each week for Storyworth. So to take advantage of this amazing offer that they've put together for you, go to storyworth.com slash leader. You'll get $10 off your first purchase. That's storyworth.com slash leader. The conversation you're about to hear with Cat Cole was recorded in front of 200 amazing leaders at the Insight Global Corporate Headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. This was part of the Insight Global Women's Leadership Council, Raise Your Hand, Raise Your Voice, Event. I am so grateful for Elizabeth Musser, Natalie Brooks, Lauren Gould, Elaine Liu, and many others from Insight Global for making this.

event happened and we recorded it on a beautiful stage constructed and orchestrated by Adam Clark and his incredibly talented creative team at Insight Global. It truly is a world-class production because of that I urge you to watch this conversation. You can do so on my YouTube channel. That's YouTube.com slash Ryan Hawk. Again, this event was unlike anything I've ever been a part of, and I am honored to have been there and had this conversation with Kat in front of so many amazing people.

All right, here we go. Welcome to a live edition of the Learning Leaders Show presented by Insight Global. I get to say that at the beginning of every episode, and I think you can hear us talking with Bird about this yesterday. You can hear the smile in my voice and some even a little bit of laughter of like, this is so cool. So

I know I'm so honored to be with you today and it's even better about the fact that I get to share the stage with someone that I really look up to. You know, I'm asked a question all the time. You've done 470 plus of these things over seven and a half years.

Who's your favorite? Who's the best? What guest do you think just stands above the rest? And it's a really tough question. I'm not going to lie. I usually kind of like, oh, it's a few people. But one name, one name that I say every single time I'm asked that question. I say, go back six years ago. Episode number 78, there's this woman named Cat Cole. She is so good. The host of that show, by the way, was not good. It doesn't matter. The guest was so good. It didn't matter. The host questions

weren't any good. And that's why when a muster and asked me who would be your first pick, your very first choice for an event like this, I said it's got to be Kat. She happens to live in Atlanta. It's really cool. Kat is also the C-O and president of Athletic Greens. Let's stand up and give a warm welcome to Kat Cole. Oh gosh. So I'm just pumped to have here. It's good to be with you. I think to get started, my first thought is on the fact that you call yourself a pragmatic optimist. I've heard and read about this, about you. And this starts from when you were nine years old. Your mom decided to leave your dad. And there's a lot of that story. Can you take us to that moment when you're nine? And she makes that decision and how she and that experience

has turned you into an optimist? Yeah, so I have two younger sisters, so I'm the oldest of three girls. And when I was nine, my mom came to me and she said, that's it, I'm done, we're leaving. And what she meant was we were leaving my dad. My father was and is a very sweet man, but at the time was a terrible alcoholic and a horrible husband and father. I was in multiple car accidents with my dad drunk driving by the time I was nine years old. So it wasn't like a little bad.

It was a lot bad. And I have two younger sisters. And so when she came to me and said, that's it, I'm done, we're leaving. I, at the age of nine, did not cry. I did not get upset. I looked at her and said, what took you so long? At the age of nine. And, you know, being a leader from such a young age after that and often being asked, like,

how do you know to do these things? And why you, when I was forced to reflect, because I didn't know the answer in the early days, I recognize that moment as this impression and learning that the people who are closest to the action, in this case, which is the little girl in the car accidents, know what the right thing to do is long before the leader takes action. The problem with the people who are closest to the action.

So in business, the action is the transaction, right? It's the client or the call center. The challenge with those close to the action who have insights is that they lack two things that leaders have. They lack the language to articulate, the fully scaled problem or scalable solution, and they lack the authority to do something about it. The leader has those things.

And so the trick in life and in business I've found, and what I learned from that moment first, is to stay incredibly close to the people who are close to the action, because they know what the right thing to do is long before I do. They just can't say it or do something about it in a scalable way. And anything that's put into motion in terms of beliefs

in prior years are not likely to last in their effectiveness. So I have to keep staying close to the action. Like when I was six, maybe it wasn't that bad. And when I was seven, maybe it was a little worse, but not horrible. And my mom had people on all sides of her life, because everyone on all sides of our family was super, super poor, except my dad.

He had a fancy job. He was an executive. So my mom, her sisters, my aunts, my uncles, both sides were telling her, you're lucky. Like we have to deal with this and we don't get a nice house. We have to deal with this and we don't have holiday presents for our kids. You should be grateful.

And that was in her mind. You should be grateful because things could be worse. And she believed it for a long time until, I don't know what it was, another car accident, another weekend getting him from jail or having him not come home, where she just moved. Like if you envision a line, she was on this line of just because things could be worse,

so I should just be grateful, gratitude, gratitude. And she moved to the other side, which is appreciating there is a dark side to gratitude when it becomes paralyzing for you. And went from that belief to, you know, just because things could be worse, fair enough, doesn't mean I don't have the right. And in the case of being a leader,

the responsibility to make things better, which certainly means raising your hand, raising your voice, like one of the folks said on the video, taking action, right? Not always your voice. My mom was over using her voice. She was over raising her hand. It was time to make a move.

But she was what was called a secretary at the time, had a very entry-level wage. She loved her job, but did not have the capability to support us on her own. And no one on either side of the family did. And she was right in her assumption, my father would not provide support if she left. So she weren't.

three jobs, fed us on a food budget of $10 a week for three years. I do not ever recall her speaking ill of our father, which is interesting, right? Doesn't mean she didn't, but I don't have the memory. So if it happened, it was rare. And I remember in those first few years, like, super, super poor. I mean, taking meat scraps from the butcher and beanie weenies and potted meat, if you don't know what it is, look it up, scary stuff. But it's like two cents a pound. or something. So, but we were fine and we were happy. But I remember one holiday season, that first holiday season,

we were on our own, driving through the neighborhood looking at holiday lights. And I distinctly remember when we would go through the fancy neighborhoods, hearing her say, isn't that so beautiful? It looks like they worked really hard. This idea of positive and celebratory without making us feel small or complaining or envy.

You know, there were just these things that she said, the way she did. things that I absorbed through osmosis. They became what I expected of leaders, what I expected of women. I expect you to be able to navigate tough things with grace in class when you're the one who's in charge. That's what I grew up with.

And that became what I held myself to, which certainly then drove me to stand out as someone who could be grounded in the practical. That's the pragmatic part, but still optimistic, because a whole lot is possible with very little, especially if the leader. leans into those things and stays really close to the action. As you get a little bit older, though, you had that conversation where your mom, I believe,

said something to you when you talked about this before, you got to get a job, Kat. Like, you need to help out, help the family out, right? It's time. As you got older and you eventually get a job at Hooters. And that becomes a big part of your story. I feel like when I think of a learning leader, I mean, you exemplify that as much as anybody because of how you stepped up to learn basically all of the positions. and then, you know, travel the world because of it.

Can you share more about that moment of your life where you go get a job and why you excel from a young age, no degree yet, none of that, and you begin traveling the world being a leader within a restaurant organization? Yeah, so first job was cleaning gym equipment. I was a high school athlete. I had to go get a gym membership, and we couldn't even afford that. And so I cleaned gym equipment for what's called a tradeout, right? I do work.

They give me a membership. And so I view that as a job. Of course, typical teenager, like 12, 13 years old, I was doing all the things in the neighborhood. All the stuff little boys, girls didn't matter. I was mowing lawns, cleaning roofs, babysitting. I was making money before it was like legal to work because I had to, but I really wanted to. I mean, I was old enough to know what parts of my early upbringing were bad. And having work, any work, pay for effort.

felt like escape. Every job I had was like a click away from that past. And so I wouldn't say it was like running, but it was all new. And so learning became my currency. I want to do something new, and I get to make money for it. And I get to help people. Oh, and then I get to make money when I help people. And money is freedom because it's independence.

And one thing I remember my mom saying from the time we left, she only had one goal, which was to, we began three girls. All she wanted was to raise three independent girls. She did not want us to have to need anyone, to do whatever it was that we needed. Fine if we wanted someone, but she did not want us to need because she viewed that as one of the contributors to her feeling the need to stay for so long. And literally, that was it. She didn't care about a lot of other things, but our ability to be independent was her North Star.

And so work also felt that it was contributing to that in a way. And then I got a job in a mall once I could legally be employed by like a North Star. employer, which is when I was 15 or 16, and I started setting sales records immediately as a part-time employee. I was on the management track, which, you know, again, given my background, felt super fancy, where they're, like, giving me certificates and I'm the salesperson of the month and asking me if I want to, like, shift leader and assistant manager roles. I was so proud, like, so proud in a way that maybe people with more sophisticated career

parents might have laughed at or scoffed at, but it was like, I was big time in. And then I got recruited to go work at Hooters. They had these people who were waitresses called Hooters Recruiter's. They had a business card with an owl on it, and they would go in to these retail places and say, we think, you know, they're very smart looking for people with customer service and women's apparel. And they're like, we think you, you know, meet the standards of a Hooters Girl. And we would like for you to come apply.

They didn't know I was only 16. So I came in and applied. I was too young to work there even as a hostess. But the minute I turned 17, this is Jacksonville, Florida, where Hooters, the third location was there. It was not a big deal. It wasn't controversial. Was that the beach?

It would take me a long time to realize some of the controversy that lived around the brand and the perception of the brand. But it was cool in Jacksonville. And so the fact that I was going to be recruited there, I could not wait until I turned 17. Literally my 17th birthday, I bought an orange jean short outfield. fit to like have the look from my retail clothing store in the mall with white scrunchy socks

and high tops, which was very much mimicking the uniform at the time. I mean, I was being it before I was hired. And I went in and applied and they said, you know, you're not old enough to be a waitress. And so, but you can be a hostess. And so I became a hostess at 17. And so at that point, I had three jobs. And worked all three jobs until I turned 18, could become a waitress. Then I could make real money. It was a tipped job in casual dining. And that sort of certainly gave me the opportunity to quit the other jobs because it was more lucrative to work waitress shifts. But then I also realized sometimes the cooks want to go home.

And I could pick up their shifts. And that would mean more money. Or the bartender needed to go home because her kid was sick. And so I could have access to that. And so it was all more shifts means more money, means more independence. And I set the record for what are called close opens. Like you literally close the restaurant in a closing shift

and you show up the next morning and you do it all. I think it was 22 back to back to back over summer. And I relished in that. I thought I was so cool. I felt like I was superwoman going into the phone booth and changing out of my orange shorts into my apron and my hat and frying wings. And really, I took so much pride in this.

And at the same time, I was the first person in my family ever to get into college. So I was admitted to college, electrical engineering, computer sciences major, psychology of women minor. My plan was to get those degrees, go to law school. And Hooters and being a waitress was just my means to pay.

for that education. Taking on debt was not an option. Just what, it was literally not the idea of owing anyone money, given my mom's focus on independence, not going to happen. And so I had to pay out of my pocket for any expense, my car, my college. That's why I was working so hard.

What ended up happening was I learned how to run a restaurant, back to back, front to back, beginning to end. I ended up becoming a manager, having no shifts. And then of course, as the company was growing, which was a coincidence. Highly beneficial to join a company that's growing because they tend to give opportunities to people from within more than a company that's not.

And the company was growing globally, and then I got the phone call from the corporate office, and my manager saying, we're looking for great employees who could travel around the world to help us train new employees for new restaurants. We're opening, oh, by the way, the first one's in Sydney, Australia, can you go? I'd never been on a plane.

I didn't have a passport. I had only been out of the state of Florida twice in my life for cheerleading, competitions, and yet I said yes. Can you go? I know I can't legal exit the country. I still said yes. I bought my first plane ticket to Miami, stood in line with my

paperwork, got my passport expedited so I could legally exit the country to the opportunity I just said yes to for my company. And that began this era of being a 19 and then 20-year-old, traveling around the world, being a part of training teams. And then after my third opening, leading those teams, setting up supply chain, getting the restaurants open, owning the whole process.

And by the time I was 20, I was failing college because I was never there, because I was traveling so much. So I dropped out. I had opened businesses on four continents. By the time I was 20, I had led teams in every country that I had never met before. So I had some pretty brutal yet beautiful leadership lessons from all of those experiences

of leading different people in different countries, but with a common goal and outcome of getting a restaurant open and running each time. And then I got recruited to work for the corporate office. So at 20, I moved from Jacksonville to Atlanta, took a corporate gig, ran all-employee training. And as the company grew, I grew. By the time I was 26, I was vice president of that company doing $800 million in revenue. Crazy time as an executive there.

We launched an airline. The CEO passed away suddenly. We were fully vertically integrated. So I ran supply chain, franchising operations, merchandising, you name it. One of the reasons I stayed there so long. I had so much rich career opportunity under a brand that most people had no idea that could complexity existed. And again, I'm a learning leader. Learning is my currency. And so no one who started offering me jobs, and many people did, could offer me that complexity in learning. And it's

why I stayed for so long. And then eventually, you know, left to go run other brands that I'm sure we'll talk about. You travel around, you meet people who sometimes they don't even speak the same language. You're opening restaurants. You have exhibited the ability to develop trust and belief in you as a leader quickly. There's a lot of people that are striving, or maybe they're new in a role, or they get shifted, they move perhaps, and they're meeting new people. What are some of the keys you found in building trust, building culture, building teams quickly when they don't previously, they may have heard of you, but they don't really

know you. One thing I did consistently and still do is to lead by action. It's one thing to say, you're important to me. I'm here for you. It's another thing to do something that says that in a million ways. So something as simple as when we get together in person, I take my time a little early to get donuts and coffee or bring you some AG1, some athletic greens. Just that effort of, I got up early, right, I have two toddlers. I'm a busy mom, yet I find a way to do something because I care about your experience.

And I can show that with my thoughtfulness. I don't need to say I thought about you. It is obvious. Now, I want those things selfishly myself, so I'm doing something nice for myself as well. But there are many versions of bringing the coffee that are demonstrating thoughtfulness in advance. That act, or cousins of that act, reinforce the idea of a service-oriented leadership role versus a hierarchy. My role, my success is your success. Your success comes from removing friction in your world, which is making it easy for you to have

a snack or coffee, which is being thoughtful about an agenda or conversations in advance. This thoughtfulness is a way to build trust. So that's step one. Two is just a level of vulnerability. I'm not going to ask of you anything I wouldn't ask of myself. And so I introduce myself first and share a little bit, something a little deeper than the office I came from and the job I'm here to do. which is how I got so comfortable sharing parts of my story that many people say,

you're so courageous or you're so vulnerable. And I'm like, this is what I needed to do to let people know I'm human too, and you have no reason to trust me other than what I tell you, and I want you to relate. And then some people would share and reciprocate. Not everyone. It's okay if they don't. But it established a level of connectivity that would not have existed otherwise and or would have taken a long time.

And so I'm just fast-forwarding the intimacy. that is a bedrock of trust. And I learned what's, you know, TMI versus what's just enough and then found my own way of what to share in general. That sharing established relationship. The third part of establishing trust with teams and places where I was very new and unfamiliar is holding people accountable. A players do not like seeing B players, C players,

people who don't give their best, being given equal opportunity. And so even at restaurants as simple as holding people accountable for being on time, for a shift, that gives people oddly psychological safety. Someone's in control. Expectations are communicated and managed. And there is someone keeping us on the tracks, which then keeps different people's energy from being frustrated by that or thinking, oh, how can I take advantage of this? And this is at a very simple hourly employee level. But there are versions of this that apply to C-suite, to executives, to performance,

even more complicated in a hybrid or remote environment. I went from managing nine presidents and a $5 billion a year company at Focus Brands and a more traditional, fully in-house kind of office setting yet with units in 80 countries around the world. So sort of a remote element. And then, like many of us, forced into fully remote in 22, are in, in 2020 with the pandemic and now I'm running a company that was built for the future. It's been fully remote since its inception.

The workforce is truly global. And so the act of modernizing these practices of accountability, this third leg of building trust is actually harder. It takes a lot more intention, a lot more outreach. People can hide out under the cloak of mediocrity for longer. Pockets of the company can be frustrated with someone not doing their part. long before I know it. Remember, people closest to the action know it the right thing to do is long before

the leader does. And in a hybrid environment or even if you're global and you have many offices, you have to stay close. So you see those smoke signals before they become fire. And interestingly, that builds trust. I want to talk about conflict resolution because I think it leads to a story that I read about that I want you to tell. You're a waitress at Hooters on Friday night.

A guy would come in and he'd order 50 wings with his buddies. I'll let you finish that story. Can you tell that story about how you... Conflict resolution. I want... I'm curious. Yeah, so I was 18. And there was a regular who came in every Friday and ordered 50 wings,

couple friends, a couple pictures of beer. Usually the same friends, sometimes different. So if you're the manager of this location, if you're the business owner, this is what we would call in the direct-to-consumer word, like a high-l-TV customer. This person's coming, spending a lot of money, very consistently and so valuable to the business.

And you kind of knew that as a waitress too. I can rely on this person. Decent tipper, but he would come in and order 50 wings. And I kid you not, every time at the end of them consuming the wings, when there's only a plate of bones remaining, would call me over and say there were only 40 wings. And I'm like, how am I supposed to tell whether there were only 40 wings? to tell whether there were only 40 wings.

There could have only been 40 wings. Maybe somebody forgot to count. There's no such thing as a 40 wing order. It was 10, 20, and 50. So no cook's going to count 40. And, all right, maybe it's an accident. So the first day this happens, I'm like, I'm so sorry. Let me, you know, comp this for you, call the manager over.

I really apologize. Would you like an additional 10 wings on us? Often, yes. We often did both, right? Like, we'll give you a percentage off and bring you extra. We're so, so apologetic. So embarrassed as a waitress if that is what happened out of the kitchen. Again, I get tipped on their experience, which has something to do with the kitchen.

So this experience also just taught me about connectivity and proximity of impact of my efforts and the efforts of all in the company to the customer experience, which then drives revenue. Of course, revenue was my income at that time. So first day this happened, so apologetic. Next Friday, comes back, orders 50 wings, plate of bones. calls me over, there were only 40 wings. And I'm like, okay, dude. That's highly unlikely.

But still, the customer's not always right, but the customer's always the customer. So sorry, we play this movie again. The third Friday in a row, and thank goodness he was in my section. So I got to see the pattern here. Same thing happens. Order 50 wings, calls me over. Same like pointer motion,

which was a little annoying. So it calls me over, and I'm thinking, okay, we now have a thing here, and if this is about to be the same thing, I don't know how you can do it with a straight face. Same thing. There were only 40 wings. So I said, all right, we took care of it.

The next Friday, he comes. So now we're four Fridays in a row. I gave him the benefit of the doubt each time. Fourth Friday, he comes. orders 50 wings, and while they were finishing, before he called me over with the plate of bones, I on my own waitress discount rung up 10 wings and brought them out to him before they could finish.

And I winked. And his buddies, who I sense were becoming a little embarrassed at his pulling one over, scamming, like just getting these free wings busted out in laughter. And he said, good one. And tip me a hundred bucks. And he never did it again. And this interesting, like, I'm giving first.

I'm of service first. But at this point, you're taking advantage. And that's not OK for my cooks, who the manager keeps going back to criticizing them. How can we get this wrong in an effort to support the manager? Yet with my consistency being close to the action, it's like there has to be a better way. way. And I am not going to have this conversation again, but what is the benefit of saying,

you're a liar? What's that going to do? That's not going to end well. And so it's sort of the, what do I really want? What I really want is to change this game. And is there a way to do it, which is humble, which is of service, instead of exacting my power and my authority and calling over a manager to say you're stealing from us? Now, not all situations. work out that way, but I sure do lean on exploring those types of avenues when I feel like something is off. The executive version of that is when I feel like there's a conflict or when I am being told there's an odd vibe or someone's not leaning into the culture, I have the conversation with them privately. Is something going on? First and foremost, is something going on? You seem off.

you seem different. It's noticeable and not in service of the team. That's kind of the executive version of the wing thing. Before I go say, you're being counseled for this, or that is not behavior, is there something going on? And about half of the time there is, and calling to that person's attention, the impact that's having on others

and the career is enough to have them be more conscious and thoughtful. Another half of the time, nothing's going on, and they do need to understand their behavior, their level, the impact it has on others, and then it's not acceptable and it can't continue. But the opportunity to go there first in service is this replicable formula, but don't confuse my kindness for weakness or stupidity. I'm generous. I'm thoughtful. I'm caring. I assume positive intent first, but I'm also not going to be taken advantage of, nor will I allow that to happen with others on my team. I want to talk about confidence and imposter syndrome. I think this is a question that comes up a lot.

You appear to be extremely confident, obviously a really important quality in a leader. For someone who struggles with that more than you did, and maybe you did earlier in your career, I don't know. What are some ideas to develop, gain confidence, and to deal with imposter syndrome? One tool that helps true confidence, inner confidence, and I do want to define confidence first, when I think confidence and the confidence people feel from me is not a old school, overly masculine, swagger, I know what I'm doing, I've got this. It's a humble confidence. It's not I know what I'm doing, it's I know we can figure it out.

Huge difference. Miles, planets apart in vibe, in culture, and in outcome of teams. And so the reality is people see the surface of confidence, but what is different about it is deeply humble. I have screwed up so many times. I have been a part of communities in the world that are the real definition of hard and dangerous. I mean, I spent 10 years doing humanitarian work on the Somali border of Ethiopia. I know what bad actually looks like, which keeps Western world business bad easily in perspective.

It doesn't mean that I don't give something the urgency it deserves in the moment. But it does help me chill. It does help me not get in my head. And that translates as ease. And ease translates as calm. And calm translates as both maturity and calm translates as both maturity and confidence, but it's actually from perspective. The reason confidence historically is viewed to be in parallel with, say, seniority, or even age, is because you do get the benefit of perspective

with time. The way to accelerate that is doing many new things where you are repeatedly uncomfortable. And given my childhood, my upbringing, my early travels, I was constantly in an environment of chaos constantly. Everything, every month, was different, but I had the same job to do. Imagine me working with some of you to get a job done, and then some of you working with a totally different group to get the job done. You really learn what you're good at when everything that you are leading is different back to back.

If it's consistently bad, you are the only common denominator. And I learned that. And was humble enough to go, there is no way, this is just magically, back to be. in this part of the training schedule in four countries where people have never heard of the brand and have never worked together. There has to be something I could do differently to impact it. And so deeply humbling experiences as long as you can stay in a healthy frame of mind. And if you have a lot of other stuff going on, that's hard. It can feel defeating.

So I do want to call that out, especially as we come out of Mental Health Awareness Month, this the world is incredibly heavy. I spend a lot of time talking about leading with a heavy heart because we are called upon to do that more consistently. more consistently. The world is beautiful. It is also heavy. And so you do need to be in a better frame of mind to be able to take humbling experiences

and turn it into confidence instead of, I feel smaller. I feel you get in your head. But it helped me realize that screwing up is normal. It's also part of growth. If by definition I'm doing something new, that's growth. By definition of it being new, there is literally no way I could be amazing. There's no way.

But I'm here and I care, and I'm glad it's me trying and not someone else who's going to care less. And so this idea of putting others first actually reduces the ego that is involved and being worried about how I look or what other people think about me because it's about you. And if it's about you, you feel it. And if it's about you, I hold myself to less

of a perfect standard. And that is, to me, humble confidence. is, if you've all seen the Mandalorian, this is the way. And this is the way. And traditional confidence, swagger, can be successful and can drive outcomes, but the teams don't last, very long. And a humble confidence saying, I know we can figure it out, is also a learning leader.

And it allows actually for more wins on the board, because the world moves so fast, any leader who suggests they know the way is going to be wrong in a matter of months, certainly in a matter of months, Certainly in a matter of quarters, absolutely in a matter of years. And teams won't win as often if they don't have a humbly confident leader that's constantly saying, who can I learn from? Who's doing more than us with less, even if we're doing incredibly well?

Confronting reality, asking for feedback, practicing reflection and my hot shot rule and checking in and just getting feedback. Like I'm never done. And half of the things I undo every month have something to do with something I are I am by doing that saying, even things I stood up totally wrong today. And they need to be addressed and I'm going to call myself out and I want you to do the same. All of that shows up as confidence. It's actually humility.

It's all humility and curiosity. But if you think about it, the person who is asking the questions, who's comfortable seeking information actually psychologically seems more comfortable in their own skin. skin as opposed to the person that says nothing and asks nothing. That person often has more talk in their head. Again, back to raise your hand, raise your voice. So I love your frame. By the way, I'm going to open up for questions after this one. So just to get everybody right in the crowd to be thinking a little bit, when we first spoke, you helped me visualize this equal balance. And you've mentioned a few of the words. Maybe we can surface it one more time for the

people who haven't heard it, but of this courage and confidence. When I asked, I, when I asked you about sustained excellence. And you talked about productive achievers, which I love that phrase. In fact, it's the subtitle of my second book, The Uncommon Behaviors of Productive Achievers, and it's from you. And it's on one side, they have this, they're very courageous and very confident, but it must be equally balanced with humility and curiosity.

Can you expand on that framework of those four and why they need to be equally balanced? Yeah. I mean, over time when I reflected, it was clear to me that the behaviors of the most successful humans, almost all fell into these four buckets. I really couldn't find a fifth or take away and make it a third. I love threes.

It just didn't work. Because these things, courage and confidence are cousins of each other, but they're different. Humility and curiosity, linked, but distinct. And so courage, the willingness to speak up went uncomfortable. I love whoever it was in the video that said, you know, that feeling in your stomach. That was so well said. That is courage. and confidence is the belief that you belong there.

It's the belief that you belong there. And it's humble courage, as I mentioned, humble confidence. So courage and confidence on that. But if you only have courage and confidence, and that is unchecked, unbalanced by humility and curiosity, you're a bull in a porcelain shop. Again, you can get things done, but people won't follow you over time and you'll be out of date very soon.

Yet humility is the belief that you, you can't do it alone, that others have value and matter, and you need each other. Curiosity, the wonder, the desire to inquire. You have to put those two together. If you're just curious, you're just a student. Nothing wrong with that, but don't mistake that with action or a leader. If you're only humble, you're there of service, but you're actually not driving any action. And so I have found that having commands over these mindsets or characteristics, the ability

to turn them up or down, depending on the moment. the team, the situation, the self-awareness to be aware of where you are and how you're being perceived. And again, the ability to modulate those, that's a modern superpower. And does lead to more productive achievement as opposed to destructive achievement, where people believe they need to step on or take over, you know, it's kind of a zero-sum mindset versus a growth and abundance mindset that the more I serve, the more I gain, the more I lead to other people's best outcomes, the better off we'll all be. So those are, those are the four mindsets. And I can tell you, even from advising high growth founders, which I've been doing for eight

years, investing in early stage startups, running my own massive global commercial businesses to now running one of the fastest growing nutrition, if not the fastest growing nutrition company in the world at Athletic Greens, that is fully remote, direct to consumer only, these things, hold true. Doesn't matter. Humans are going to human. The grass is not greener. People are going to be people. And this framework and mindset and really call to reflect and build capability is more needed, more true now than ever, no matter the stage or size of the company. So good. First question. Where are we? Let's go. Hi, Erin Tanzos. I feel like we've been talking a lot about raising your voice,

and I know a lot of women in this room and men too have had the confidence to stand up and ask for something or speak up. And there are moments where the response back or the results that you're expecting aren't what you thought going into it and you find yourself losing your voice. In moments where maybe you've failed or stumbled, how do you get the confidence back to go forward a second? time. Or know when maybe I shouldn't have in the first place. Yeah, I love that. So one, if you are speaking up with the expectation of a specific outcome, you will always be disappointed.

Period. That may be part of the problem. But if speaking up is about contributing and pushing the conversation forward, one, you're sort of lowering the expectation on the outcome so it doesn't create this, it's going to be great, I'm going to speak up. Oh, no, it was terrible. Never mind. You know, that meme of Homer Simpson, like, fading into the bush. That's what people feel like sometimes. So I have very low expectations on the impact I make when I ask a question or bring up a point. But I do believe there's value in. contributing. But I don't expect one hand raise or one memo to change the world. And so one, that helps because the crash, if it's sort of out of the zone of what you're

hoping for, isn't as far. Doesn't have to be your technique. It has certainly been mine over time. The second is recognizing that getting comfortable with how you navigate speaking up in various situations, like anything, is a muscle over time. There's a reason that when you did that video and people were asked, who do you think of when you think of people who raise their voice? The reason those names come to mind is because over time, they have appeared to do that consistently. The first time doesn't create the reputation

that you're someone who speaks up. And you've got to appreciate that. Again, this is perspective. And the earlier you are in the career arc, Unless you've really been doing what I was doing, which is leading nonprofits, leading teams, public speak, like I was parallel pathing a couple of careers. So again, I collapsed the amount of embarrassing moments

that I would typically need 10 years to have, but I had them in two. So the learning was very similar to time. But as I think about that idea of overtime speaking up, it's finding your way that works for the way that works for that moment. Not every way of speaking up works in every setting. So for example, I'm around the table. I'm a first time vice president at Hooters. I'm the only female executive. I'm 26 years old. Every one of my peers are in their 50s. They had been in business longer than I had been alive.

Zero exception. No exaggeration. That was really beautiful in terms of its complexity and diversity, what we had to learn from each other, but it was quite daunting, and certainly there were very real dynamics in those board rooms. Some of them that were in my head and maybe not real and others that were super real. And I remember those first few board meetings, those first few executive meetings where it's like a plane taking off getting ready to raise my hand. I'm thinking, I'm thinking about what I'm going to say, I'm practicing in my head to make it super perfect because I feel like I don't belong and I've got to prove that I have deserved to have the seat, like all this stuff in our heads. And by the way, the more other you feel, the more

of those voices that are in your head for very good reason because we have very different lived experiences that have taught us. You have to be perfect when others can be imperfect to get this seat, deserve this seat, or keep this seat. So not only woman, woman of color, woman of color, LGBTQIA plus, super, super young, more mature. You layer in whatever is more unique and that understandably creates more like work, which is, by the way, emotional labor, it is actual brain power and effort to just show up, which makes me look at myself and all of you and folks who have many layers of in a moment or in a room being distinct, look at you like a magical unicorn, like a power.

like a powerful, like, wow, you are amazing. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. And so I recognize that. And I know that. And as a leader now, not just the person in those rooms, but now as the person leading the leaders in these rooms, I don't wait for someone to have that conversation in their head. I fast track it.

I want to know what you think. I specifically ask you. I'd like to know what you're thinking. That is the role of the leader. Male, female, they, she, him. doesn't matter. When you are the leader, the way you get the highest return on human assets, which you're investing in, is in fact to cut through the voices that are in their head that are quite well earned from decades and then even centuries of stuff and cutting through it.

Over time, that says we are different here. There's belonging here. But everyone comes with their stuff. And so all this is at play in the question you asked. The work that's in my mind, to raise my hand or speak up, the outcome that I believe is going to happen, what is in my mind that has to do with the people in this room and has to do with a lot of people outside of this room and how I think about speaking up, when I speak up, how I speak up, and then how I react

to what happens as a result, because I am the combination of my lived experiences, and that is different for everyone in the room, which puts a ton of responsibility on leaders to just understand this, get it, and cut through it. So that those dynamic, fade away in my presence. I can at least do my part.

But back to being the person in the room, it's finding my way to speak up. I would find these wedges. So often in that situation when I was the only female executive, and again, there's this massive generation gap, I would say, I have a question. I wouldn't wait for someone to stop talking. They're never going to stop talking.

And then I'm like, but... And then I think, have people heard the buzz? and me trying and so I would say I have a question I didn't say can I speak I don't need your permission but I have a question I'm claiming my space

because you're not giving it and you're not asking for it shame on you so I'm going to claim my space I have a question who's going to keep talking when you say that you're going to be a super jerk and so that was one of my wedges

when I was in an uncomfortable people not seeing me or I didn't feel that I deserve to be there, which, by the way, was quite additionally complicated in various countries around the world with very different gender dynamics and very different generation dynamics that were sometimes worse than what I experienced in North America. And sometimes better. And so that was one wedge. The other wedge would be, I want to add to that. So you see what I'm doing. I'm not asking, but I am creating the space. Now, over time, I don't need to do that.

I am given the space. I have earned the respect. I work with better and better leaders who are adept at pulling out insights from everyone in the room. So I don't need the wedge over time. But it's a technique to claim the space and de-stress and take the energy.

I don't want your energy going into, how are you going to ask a question? I want your energy going into the work, the customer, the problem, the team. That's what I'm paying you for. And shame on me if I don't remove that emotional labor. and the other pieces,

there will still be times that you feel let down. There will still be times that you think. There were still many for me. I walk out of a meeting and not so much the, I have the other problem. It's not the, oh, that didn't go as well as I thought. It's often, I should have asked that question. Right?

Like you walk out, I should have brought up that point. And there have been a few times where things played out and I really kicked myself for not speaking up because I knew. I knew better. And some of my biggest career, mistakes have come from not owning the responsibility of my position. And I learned this phrase,

I would be failing you if. I would be failing you if I didn't bring this up. I would be failing you if I didn't tell you this. If I were you, I would hope someone would tell me. In my role representing the customer, I'm failing the company if I don't bring up this point. It takes the me versus you out of things and elevates the discussion back to what really matters, even though it is in fact my perspective and idea. So these are just, these are ways to navigate humans who all show up to a space with very different things going on in their lives. The person in that boardroom, I remember my first executive role, who seemed to be the most confident, I later found out was quite the opposite and had all kinds of questions and issues and I did not have the skills

to unpack all that stuff. And I almost grew to not feel sorry for him, but I took it less personally over time and used it as an example of people have a lot going on. And it's what taught me to ask, is there something going on? Because that either catches someone off guard or they cry.

And either way, it's a humble way to confidently say this is not okay to continue and move this on. Hi, my name's Kelsey Wood. Have you ever, with everything that you've accomplished, you've done so many things. Like I'm only 27 and to think about what you did at the age of 26 is just insane. So between then and now, have you ever experienced the time where you have been burnt out and maybe like so much so to where you were questioning your purpose and all the things that

you have been doing and what you're going to do next? So like how did you pull yourself out of that and what did you do? Yeah, I had a few moments. One, about when I was 27. So from the time I was 25 years old, I was mentioned I was leading nonprofit boards of directors. I was the chair of the board of the Georgia Restaurant Association. I was on the national restaurant. I was very active in the industry and was an executive of this high growth company.

And so I was in that mode of saying yes to everything that came my way. And the more I did, the more visibility I had, the more that came my way. It's when I started public speaking. I was invited by Home Depot and Coca-Cola. And these companies saying, come in, come speak. We'll pay you to speak. I was like, yes, yes, yes, it's all amazing. And then about 27, I hit a point where I started to recognize that I was barely getting to places on time and I was starting to procrastinate and I even canceled a few things.

And then there were a few people that I let down. I was late and so I learned the hard way. It didn't feel like burnout. It was letting people down. I'd overcommitted. I was still like young and full of energy and again, my currency is learning and it was all new and it was all amazing and I was just living. my best leadership life, but I started to let people down. And I have only one fear in the world. Given what I have been exposed to around the world, I know what bad really is. And the little

fears I've experienced, I have learned they're real, they're valid, they're often irrational, but they're there, but I only have one deeply seated like phobia. And it is letting people down. Top of the list, by a mile, I want to crawl into a hole, I want to vomit, I want to, like, I'm so embarrassed. Yet I created that situation. And so it wasn't burnout for me. It was the very clear signal that I could no longer deliver on my commitments because I overcommitted, because I wanted to say yes. And the saying yes came in part from not wanting to say no to people. but it also came from being obsessed with new opportunities as learning as a currency because again every one of them became a move away from my past and one opportunity always led to another always and I had not built my no muscle that took some time and I was pretty radical in that moment once I realized and I canceled easily a third of my commitments I said I'm sorry can I find let me help

you find someone else, I offered to be helpful. And the reality was most people understood, they'd rather be canceled in advance than be slow played, slow delivered, not get the best of me or not get me at all last minute. And so that was interesting. I was like, oh, they're okay with me. Can't, they get it.

That wasn't so horrible. And so that started to form and elevate my understanding of how to manage my energy and deliver on my commitments and manage my reputation. and what really mattered and tapping into my values. And I learned to say no. So no is a complete sentence.

No. No, thank you if you want to be polite. Then I learned to say no by saying yes. I love this opportunity. I can think of someone who'd be perfect for it. If I can, in fact, think of someone who'd be perfect. It's not me at this time. And this is true for people who ask for money,

investments in companies, non-profit, People ask for time, speaking, mentorship. I want to say yes to everybody. I can't. And I'm very clear on my values and priorities. My husband, my kids, my health, my community, my company. The company is actually like number four, or number five on the list.

But there's a really long list, and that's still pretty high on the list. And those things helped me, learning to say no, but no in a kind way, no in a serving way, no, I'm going to be your helper way, or just no, I can't deliver on that commitment for you right now. I'd love to, but I can't. People get it. And if they don't, they're not for me.

But people get it. And then I developed this realization that I don't want things to get bad for me to learn the lesson. I don't want to let people down again for me to realize I need to scale back. That's not the game. So I developed a method of checking in. I call it check-ins. It's the name of my newsletter because of that. checking in.

Checking in with people who are closest to me who matter most. So my husband and I have a monthly check-in on the 10th of every month, our month anniversary, this day that we met. We ask each other the same six questions. My direct reports for six years, we have asked each other the same six questions

once a month. And that is rooted in me annually reviewing my values, what matters to me most, but then monthly doing a check-in with those folks. And here are the questions. What's been the best part of the last 30 days? As it relates to how we work together.

Now, something that affects how we work together could be outside of work. But in general, that's what we're talking about, our working experience, or with my husband, our relationship experience. Same questions, by the way. So I ask you, what's been the best part of the last 30 days? You tell me.

You then ask me, Kat, what's been the best part of the last 30 days? I tell you. What's been the worst part of the last 30 days? days is the second question. The third question, one of my faves, tell me one thing I can do differently to be a better partner for you. That is an action question. The fourth question is, what has worried you the most in the last 30 days? About 50% of the time, there's some tears. Doesn't matter who it is. The world's heavy. Sometimes it's business stuff that's overwhelming. Often it's personal stuff that enters into how I show up in the world, and it's fine.

The fifth question is what's one thing you are most proud of in the last 30 days? And the sixth question is what have you been most grateful for? One thing. We ask each other. And always start the check-in with a review of the calendar because otherwise you just react to the last three days, primacy and recency. And a lot happens in 30 days. And this does not remove coaching real time in a professional environment.

It doesn't remove my husband and I talking about things in the moment. It's just a protected space just to check in. For my in-person longer team meetings, anything longer than half a day, we start the meeting with a mini version of this check-in, which is kind of a combination of the question. So everyone has to go around and answer, what's one thing that's weighing on you, like worrying you, weighing on you, and what's one thing you're proud or grateful for? And again, mix of some quivery lips and tears, and from me and everybody else sometimes. it's just a grounding, it's a reminding that we're human showing up in the space that

kind of pick up on some things that you may not realize are so prominent for people, and then you use that as a basis to move on and again back to building trust. It is a way to really, really check in. And that practice has also helped me over time in a way that's actually a little bit of an answer to both of your questions. when we're all more human, it sort of flattens the hierarchy that may be perceived. Awesome. So good. Yep. You've clearly had lots of different jobs in your career.

Of all of them, which was the most challenging to take on and start out? And how did you handle that? Probably becoming president of Cinebond when I was 31. It was my first president role, first time running the whole thing. There's no one that touches the company that didn't report to me. It was my first time in that role. It was my first time in that industry sector. So I had been in casual dining before,

and so I was moving a couple clicks away to the snack business at the time, mostly based in malls and airports. It was 2010. It was the heart of the recession. Again, mostly then we were based in malls and airports, and in the recession, when people have depressed discretionary income,

there are two things they stopped doing very quickly, shopping and traveling. So the business had multiple years of double-digit sales decline. So I was taking over a sinking ship as a business bottle, yet the brand was beloved. And it's one of the areas where, in addition to Hooters and growing that brand around the world, I really got schooled on brand. And whether you're B-to-B, B-to-C, B-to-C, the idea of your business is a brand, the employer brand, like, that matters.

And it was the only thing keeping Sinaban alive was, nostalgia, people's memory, and their love for actually how delicious so in food you would call that high quality that the product is. But the business model was broken. The franchisees had not invested in the business. Most of them only owned one or two locations, small business owners not well capitalized to navigate the recession. No bank would lend money to a mall-based concept in the recession selling a cinnamon roll the size of your face at the height of the Atkins craze. It's like but for me I was like

I get to be president. I'm happy to be here. And again, low expectations are a very good thing. It was kind of only up into the right. And so that was likely the biggest leap in new and unexpected. The weight of responsibility, the weight of people's financial health on my heart. Literally, their I franchisees calling me crying because they owed millions and rent. The malls weren't giving them relief.

It wasn't like COVID where everybody had to shut down. This is just, sorry, you owe us the rent. It's not my fault that people aren't walking into the mall, even though you're paying a premium rent for that foot traffic that I'm no longer providing. The lease is ironclad. You can't pay, we shut you down. It was happening everywhere.

And I was getting those phone calls. And as an empath, someone who cares deeply, that was really heavy. I mean, I was in tears easily once a week, just releasing the weight of the feeling, of the pain that I was now sharing with them and now responsible in part for addressing. And some of them, my path was helping them just reduce the pain. And that sucks, right? When you're like, I'm going to help you not go to jail. That's what improvement's going to look like. I'm going to

help you not lose your home. Or I'm going to help you get out. Somebody's going to buy this business from you. but it's not the crazy valuation you have in your mind. You need to take it and go. You're not going to get better and I'm sorry if your dream was to get $4 million for this business. You're going to get $500,000 and you're going to get shut down if you don't. Those are heavy. I just jumped into that scenario. And then managing a team who so beloved the brand and was beaten down, when you are

navigate, when you're a wartime leader, right? Because wartime, there's peacetime, you've heard this, it's not actual war, an actual peace, but the idea of up versus down, when you're navigating wartime or more challenging moments in a company's journey, you don't have the traditional set of reinforcing incentives. Sales go up, high fives, green on the board, bonus unlocked, you don't have that. So you have to really navigate inspiring people and leading them in a very different way that should not end when good times come, but then get built upon with more traditional incentives and metrics and tailwinds and feelings of winning.

And so that was also hard for me. I left a company that was continuing to grow. So to take over one that was headed to the ground was also this emotional burden. How do I come in with enough vision that it's not so positive that people feel like I'm disconnected from their reality? I do not believe in always being positive. It's why I talk about pragmatic optimism or optimistic pragmatism. Sometimes being overly positive is the most tone-deaf thing you can do.

But you don't know if you don't stay close to the action. You don't know if you don't appreciate the lived experience of people and so you could be an accidentally tone-deaf. As a leader, still no excuse you're the leader. You should know better. in a modern world in my perspective. So I appreciated this dynamic, and I needed to go to the media and talk about Cinebon

as if it was the greatest multi-channel, multinational, on its way to being a billion-dollar brand, which we did in 12 months. But in a way that showed that made people want to stand up behind me and with me, not feel that I was disconnected from their pain. And then whenever I leaped to running the whole thing, all focus brands, all nine brands,

brands, all 80 countries, all channels, billions in sales. That was also challenging because my audience was bigger. It was more diverse and sending the few messages that I sent to all brands, all franchisees had to like thread a needle of recognizing points of pain and celebrating because everyone's experiences even regionally were so different. And I remember when I sent my first memo as president's COO, that company, and the malls were struggling. and the streetside businesses were booming

and I focused more on the positive and boy those franchisees that were struggling let me have it. You clearly don't appreciate our experience and our perspective. Maybe if you did, we would be in a better situation. I mean just you lead, you create a culture where people are open for feedback,

open to giving feedback, you're going to hear it. And so those two roles were my biggest leaps in weight of emotional responsibility, breadth of technical capability that I managed, and in intensity and urgency of just the moment. And, like, needing to create wins, small or large on the board, both to get the company

emotionally engaged in feeling good and not defeated, but literally to turn around the business. Otherwise, it was going to go away. We have a couple minutes. You're meeting with a... 25-year-old college grad, they want to leave a debt in the world, do well. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice you have for that person? I do believe a piece of the advice would be the theme of this event.

You know, you're there for a reason. If you don't use your seat, someone else will. If you don't raise your hand, someone else will. If you don't use your voice, someone else will. If you don't have a seat, you're on the menu. That was all restaurant phrase. If you don't have a seat and you feel like it's not the right culture, build your own table. All of these things that you hear a lot are very real but feel unattainable when you have less earned authority.

And so given that, I would still share that directionally for those who hear it and feel call to action. But very practically, I would say you cannot think your way into making a dent. You cannot. You're not going to meditate your way into creating change. And I, when I, and I deeply believe in mindfulness practices, by the way. But a lot of my frameworks, that, the hotshot rule, these other frameworks that I have actually are all a version of one framework. Ask, answer, act. I am constantly asking questions or questions.

encouraging others to, answering candidly or creating the culture where others will answer candidly and then acting on what I learn. Rinse, wash, repeat. I'm never done. As I mentioned, I might be learning something that I need to change. That is actually what I put into place. It creates a culture and reputation of vulnerability. But most importantly, a bias for action. I do, I do, I do, I do. But I don't do before I ask. And I don't just ask, I ask an answer. I don't just ask an answer. Again, that's curiosity. Ask, answer, act.

It's humility, curiosity, courage, and confidence all put to work in a framework of frameworks. And so I would remind them of that. Just do. Also, get started early. You're not going to think your way to your dream thing. You're going to act your way. You're going to experience your way into realizing, oh, this is my jam. I want more.

Oh, ooh, not my jam. I want different. The reason it seems like I've done so much is in part because I started so early doing. And I started so early leading. And instead of, to the first question, being defeated when I got it wrong, I just said, all right, better next time. I need to learn. And that then led me to living this mantra, it's my pin tweet. It's what my mom writes on my birthday card every year.

It's true for what I believe about myself, first and foremost, my marriage, my teams, and consumer brands. This is so true about almost everything. Don't forget where you came from, but don't you dare let it solely define you. The way I showed up in my business when I was 26 is part of my learning and reputation. But two years later, I was a very different leader and deserved to be respected as a very different leader. Don't forget where you came from, but don't you dare let it solely define you. Our truth is in our roots. It's true for a business, but we can't let our past be our anchor.

And the corporate graveyard is full of brands who did not follow this advice and businesses. And a ton of leaders and individuals with untapped potential fail to believe this. They believe they're defined by yesterday. Every day is an opportunity to show. show up differently if you can get out of your own way and not feel bound to what people think about you from how you showed up yesterday. That takes a lot of internal power and it is what led me to develop the hotshot rule, which is essentially a practice that I started well over a decade ago.

It started as a quarterly practice. It became monthly. Now it's weekly. Every Sunday, it takes two minutes. I don't even write anything down. I envision, I get in a quiet area, usually after I put my two and a half year old down for her nap, which still exists. Thank you, Universe.

And I envision someone I admire. That's step one. Don't overexercise yourself more than that. Someone you admire. Then I envision them in my role tomorrow. I am gone. They inherit everything. I cannot say thank you, goodbye, hire a person, fire a person,

thank a client, call someone out, clean up my, you get it. Nothing changes. You take my seat at Athletic Green's. You are now president, COO, and board member of the fastest growing nutrition company in the world. Congratulations. And I ask myself, what is one thing, if I look at the world I know, but through your fresh

eyes that I admire, what is one thing and the first thing that you would do differently to impact the business? And what is fascinating is that because of that condition, I know the truth of all that's there. I even subconsciously have my teams like comments and Slack messages and everything in my head, but I have the day one mentality of you in my seat and a little bit of the. both intimidation and aspiration element going on, I don't want to be embarrassed if you take over my seat and there's something that could have easily been done differently that I could have done.

So it comes to my mind immediately. That is not the end of the exercise. Again, if that were the end, that would be a thinking exercise. That would be an ask and answer exercise. The next step is I take action on it in 24 hours. Now, not all things can be completed in 24 hours, but I put it in motion. I booked the flight. I schedule the meeting. I send the note, whatever it is, but that is not the end. The end of the exercise is actually telling the stakeholders my team that are involved. Every Monday, my teams know this, this is the way I work. They are required to practice it with their direct reports.

It is not required beyond that. It inspires people and they come up with their own version. Great. But every time I tell my team, almost without exception, I practice the hot shot rule. You don't have to say the hot shot rule if they don't know. You can just say, I was thinking. I was thinking if one of you were in my seat, you would do this, I have gotten it started.

Every single time I have that last step of the conversation. Hey, y'all, I practice the hot shot rule. Here's what came up. Here's what I'm doing about it. The people involved say some version of what I said to my mom when I was nine years old. What took you so long? Or finally. Or it's about time because the people who are closest to the action know what the right thing to do is

long before the leader takes action. And this, a decade later, does not change. even practicing it weekly. There is always something they know but hasn't risen to the level of priority in my mind because we're all blinded by our own progress. If you've had success over time, you definitely have more blind spots

than someone who has had recent repeated failures. For sure. You are believing that what caused those successes in the past has something to do with your approach being successful in the future. Whether you believe it consciously or subconsciously, it is the innovator's dilemma. And so the hot shot rule is my way

of saying not me. Like, why can I not be the hot shot? Why do I? Now, sometimes it does require a hot shot. Sometimes it does require a totally fresh set of eyes because there's just too much going on there. And someone else can, in fact, peel back the layers, not feel the burden of the past,

and make a real difference. And many of you have probably been the hot shot. Some of you might have been succeeded by someone who came in and made a notable difference. And you're glad for that, and you think, oh, that's a reminder that I can always be better. Again, use this and not a way of intimidating yourself for feeling small, but motivating to action.

And that hot shot rule, out of everything we've talked about, may be my single most powerful, personal framework to be my own best self-coach in combination with external feedback and the other things we've talked about. Wow, this is amazing. Thank you so much for doing this. Let's give Kat a warm welcome. Cat Cole.

Cat Cole speaks with such precision. She is a world-class storyteller. She realizes her life experiences can become valuable lessons for others. And she has become highly skilled at telling those stories in a way that are entertaining and engaging and informative. I was in that room watching more than 200 people sitting on the edge of their seats hanging on every word. It was awesome. I would urge you, in fact, to watch this one on YouTube. YouTube.com slash Ryan Hawk. One, just to see the beautiful stage that Adam Clark and his team

put together, but also to watch Cat in Action. All of us as leaders need to continue to develop our skills as communicators and cat is quite simply one of the best in the world at this a few takeaways from my notes her hot shot rule right the hot shot rule is the act of thinking of someone that cat admires then pausing reflecting and asking what they would do in her situation her shoes her role and then answering what that one thing is and most importantly acting on it then her monthly reflection questions which been the best part of last 30 days the worst part tell me one thing I can do differently to be a better partner. What has worried you the most?

What is one thing you are most proud of? And what have you been most grateful for? Found that to be useful. And then one of my favorite moments when Kat said, I am a learning leader. Learning is my currency in the fact that Kat loves the opportunity to do something new where she can help people and earn a living at it. And I could essentially share the details of every single one of her answers. because that's how good I think Cat Cole is. I hope you enjoyed it as much

as I did. If so, I would love it if you would tell a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of the Learning Leader Show with Cat Cole. I think she'll help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that and you continue to write reviews on Apple Podcast and rate the show, hopefully five stars,

you are giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to soon. Can't wait.