The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 500: AJ Hawk, Keith Hawk, & Pat McAfee - Influential Leaders, Keys To A Great Partnership, Living Life As A Movie, & Celebrating 500 Episodes!

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

Text Hawk to 66866 to become part of Mindful Monday. Join 10's of thousands of other Learning Leaders to receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right... Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12    https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Notes: AJ Hawk is the all-time leading tackler in Green Bay Packers history. He won a National Champion at Ohio State University and was voted captain of the Green Bay Packers Super Bowl-winning team (2010-20110 He was inducted into the Ohio State University Hall of Fame in 2019. Currently, he is a co-host on The Pat McAfee Show which airs weekdays on YouTube. (AJ is my younger brother) Keith Hawk spent 30+ years as a sales leader. At one point, more than 1,000 people were in his charge. Keith now regularly speaks around the world on such topics as Leadership, Principled Negotiation, Consultative Selling, and Building Thriving Corporate Cultures. He is the co-author of two popular business books, Get-Real Selling, and Terrific – Five Star Customer Service. (Keith AKA "Pistol" is my dad) Pat McAfee is a future billionaire and the founder/CEO of Pat McAfee Industries. He's the host of "The Pat McAfee Show" which airs weekdays on YouTube from 12:00-3:00. Pat recently agreed to a deal with FanDuel which has them spending more than $140 million to be the title sponsor of his YouTube progrum. Prior to launching his media career, Pat was named the "punter of the decade" from his time booming balls for the Indianapolis Colts. Pat is also a WWE color commentator, professional wrestler (he once wrestled Stone Cold Steve Austin), and analyst on ESPN's College GameDay. In WWE, fans and critics often deem Pat as one of the greatest color commentators of all time for his humorous comments, his energy, and his charisma. "When you grow up you tend to get told that the world is the way it is and your life is just to live your life inside the world. Try not to bash into the walls too much. Try to have a nice family life, have fun, save a little money. That's a very limited life. Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact: Everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can influence it… Once you learn that, you'll never be the same again." - Steve Jobs quote that Pat has hanging up in his studio. "I view life as a movie." - Pat McAfee Keys to a great marriage: Pistol - "On our wedding bands, we had "C, C, C" engraved. They stand for: Communication Consideration Cuddling Questions from fans of The Learning Leader Show: Haley Erickson – CPA: What an achievement! I glean so much from your work and am thankful you share this material with the world. My question: Who is one of the most impactful people in your life and how have they impacted you? Rob Stevens, Leadership Consultant: This is very personal to me. I'm curious what your dad would say about adding value as more and more people get beyond 60. I see a lot of older people, with a lot of wisdom and experience, either retiring or getting pushed to the side. I'd be interested if he has any ideas on how those of us that are over 60 can continue to make significant contributions. It's kind of the question that you like to ask about advice for kids just out of college wanting to make a difference only the other end of the spectrum. David Salvador - VP at Gogo Aviation: Congratulations Ryan! "What is the most impactful investment you can make in yourself for your career?" The draft: It's your birthday dinner. None of your family or close friends can make it. You can invite any person in the world and they will be there. Who are your 5? Pistol: Steve Martin, Pete Rose, Paul McCartney, Al Michaels, James Taylor Ryan: The Rock, Dave Chappelle, Dave Matthews, Peyton Manning, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Taylor Swift AJ: Tom Cruise, Amelia Earhart, Sean Casey, Tiger Woods, Tim Dillon

Welcome to a special 500th episode of the Learning Leaders Show presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text Hawk to 66866 to become part of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world, will receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start. your week off right you'll also receive details about how my book the pursuit of excellence will help you become a more effective leader text hawk to 66866 now on tonight's featured leaders

as we've done with number 200 300 300 300 and now 500 my guests are my dad keith hawk and my younger brother a j hawk my dad keith was a senior VP of sales for 30 plus years leading upwards of a thousand people over the course of his career, also author of bestselling book called Get Real Selling. My younger brother, AJ, is the all-time leading tackler in Green Bay Packers. History won a national championship at Ohio State, voted team captain of the Green Bay Packers, was inducted into the Ohio State University Hall of Fame in 2019. Currently, he is a co-host on the Pat McAvey Show, which airs weekdays on YouTube. We also had a special surprise guest join us that I I think you'll enjoy a few topics we covered what it means to be a great teaming.

My dad, I thought, told a few amazing stories about how my brother, AJ, did this. And then we each shared one of the most impactful people in our lives and how they've impacted us, as well as investments that you can make in yourself and your career to build a career that you're proud of. I got these questions from you. loyal listeners of the show and ask them because that's what this is all about. When I think about 500 and I reflect on what's happened over the past seven and a half years and the growth and both myself as a leader because of you and because of this show, it's changed my life. When I started, this podcast was an outlet for me to have curiosity conversations with fascinating people. I had a

full-time job and I would not leave that full-time job until three years after I started recording episodes of this podcast. And now, 500 episodes later, this is what I do for my career. This is how I provide for my family recording this podcast and all of the amazing opportunities that come from it. And that's all because of you and your support and your willingness to spread the word and tell a friend or two, hey, you should listen to the Learning Leader Show. I think it will help you become a more effective leader and you doing that over and over and over is why this thing has spread all over the world and for that I am so grateful that this is what I get to do for my daily work and I will promise you that I will continue to try to get better and to add more value to your life and try to do

my best to say thank you by doing excellent work that's value at so thank you so thank you so much. It's episode 500. Let's get it going. It's with my dad, Keith Hawk and my younger brother, AJ Hop. All right, pistol, it's number 500. Age, good to see you. It's been about two years since number 400. Give me an update. Pistol, you want to go first? What have you been doing the last two years? Well, the last two years, a lot has happened. Most notably, you know, we kind of lived through all the COVID stuff and got out the other side of it. And during that time, your mom and I built a house in Florida, which I am sitting in right now, brand new to us. And I'm having a great time down here.

I went on a long kayak tour yesterday. We work out every day and meeting a bunch of new friends. Love it. Age, what's going on the last two years? I think it's, I mean, honestly, I guess two years ago we recorded it's pretty similar to what I was doing two years ago, I think. That was probably early on as I started doing stuff five days a week with the Pat McAvey show and joining Pat every day. But same thing. I'm doing that right now.

Drive to Indy every Friday. It's only little travel I have to do. Drive to Indy and host the show there from studio as Pat is on Game Day now. So he comes in remote on Friday. And that's pretty much as far as my professional life, pretty much the same. And I hope to continue. I don't want to change it anytime soon. I like doing it.

Hold on a second. What we got? Uh-oh. No. Speaking of them, the timing is pretty good. I hope you can hear and see, if you're watching on YouTube, you could certainly see the guy, the jacked dude who showed up. Jocked. The corner of the screen.

I am so glad, Pat, that you're here. For those who somehow may not know Pat, the punter of the decade for the Indianapolis Colts, one of the greatest punter athletes of all the time, one of the biggest hits I've seen on a human against Trendin Holiday, on a kickoff, has since now gone on to retire, I think, early and then change the game when it comes to building a media empire future billionaire. I am pumped to introduce Pat McAfee on the Learning Leader Show.

Welcome, Matt. Hey, thank you for having me, Pistol. You look fantastic. Ryan, congrats on 500, huh? Hey, let's go. It ain't easy, dude. It ain't easy to get to 500. It ain't having that type of brain.

Thank you for, you know, inviting me on here to acknowledge the Hawk family. But 500 episodes is something that is worthy of a celebration. You should be excited, Ryan. I know we're talking about me and you said a lot of nice things and future billionaire probable. You know, depending upon how much I want to work, we'll see how it goes. I've been kind of, you know, looking at that whole thing. That's not what it's all about. It's about having a good time.

But you did fight. You've done five. Let's go. That is not easy at all, Ron. He should be pumped up about that. Thank you, man. The way you approach your work is inspiring, man. I saw a quote that you put on Instagram from time to time that's hanging up in the Thunderdome, your studio that's from Steve Jobs.

I want you to talk about it. Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact. Everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you. And you can change it. You can influence it. Once you learn that, you'll never be the same. Pat, tell me what that quote means to you. well you know the people that are smarter than me uh there happens to be three of them right now on

this particular program and a j obviously right below a j you're the best dude a j love him man honestly you look great thank you your your brothers are i look jocced i don't think i don't you look joc why'd you come on here you didn't tell was this surprise yeah surprise how this even happen what do you mean how this happened me and ryan are friends remember i watch him beat the shit out of the lake tahoe and we became friends out there we started chit-chat we became tight buddies. Pistol, it is an honor. Honestly, Pistol, you've done a great job.

You've done a great job. But not only with the creature below me that I get to talk to every single day, but 500 episodes in leadership podcasting, making the world a better place. Pistol, you should be incredibly proud. I want to let you know that. I am proud. And I'm proud that age is working with you these days, man.

I hope I conveyed some of that on your birthday video a year or two ago when we all sat down and toasted you. Yeah, that was uncomfortable. We'll never do that again, hopefully. But I do appreciate you being a part of that. The boys put that together. I think, you know, Steve Jobs, bad dad, not like pistol. Steve Jobs, terrible dad, bad dad, but certainly an innovator and a man who changed the entire world.

And a lot of his quotes, like, have resonated with me ever since, like, even like college, like, going back to the day. I think he's a profound speaker. I think he was. It'll rest and peace, obviously, should have got some medicine, chose not to. It shows, you know, that whole conversation is certainly warranted there. But some of his quotes about, you know, the world is, that one impression. particular, it kind of lays out how you're supposed to live your life. You know, you're supposed to go to school. You're supposed to get a job. You're supposed to make a little bit of money. You're supposed to have a

family. You're supposed to just kind of stay within these barriers that have already been created. And then you'll die. And then the next generation does the exact same thing. And then the quote about how everything around you was created by people that are no smarter than you. Now, I don't know if that's 100% true, especially if you're Steve jobs, you're much smarter than I am. But I've gotten a chance to kind to peek behind the veil at a lot of different places and got a chance to meet the high up people that making decisions in these multi-billion dollar operations. And I do believe that in some situations, you know, that quote rings very true. There's a lot of dumbasses in a lot of very important positions around the world.

And I find that to be inspiring. I find that to be motivating. I think it's a message to everybody that anybody could do it. And, you know, I'm lucky that we're in the middle of a run right now that is dumb, right? This run is very dumb. I'm experiencing with Game Day now. There's signs in every single city we get.

too talking about freeing gumpy from Canada. I mean, it is just, it's amazing thing that we're on right now. But I, you know, I've just always had that like, let's go and do it type mindset. I'm lucky it's working out, Ryan. I'm lucky. I'm very lucky it's working out right now. You have like a magnetic personality where I, and I watched this in Tahoe when we got to see just how so many famous people respond to you. They all want to be a part of Pat McAfee's life.

It's wild. It really is. That was a weird. What's that guy's name from Saturday Night Live? Colin Jost. I was right there when he's like, hey, I want to come on your show. And you're like, you're far too smart for our show, sir. And right? It was bizarre to see how people respond to you, man. Pistol, it was a weird situation. Me and AJ are just standing there. We're just sitting there. Colin Jose, who's like been the lead writer of Saturday Night Live, one of the institutions of all the time, very famous married to Scarlett Johansson. Like this dude has been AILUS celebrity. And we're just standing because there's a little bit of a bottleneck at that particular hole. We're standing behind it. he comes up he introduces himself to me i don't know if a j had already known him and then he goes i'm a big fan of the show or whatever would love to come on in like my immediate reaction as i see

this guy walking up to me i'm trying to process who it is i'm like oh that's a saturday life guy and then he like comes in i'm like oh that's the important saturday life guy like that's the leader of guy so as soon as he said something like that i'm like boom no way hey do not let us ruin your legacy like you don't need you don't need us to do that to you that's just like my natural reaction i think i've always felt that way um i'm very lucky that people, you know, have gravitated towards our show. I think it's because of the vibe that we all kind of set in there. But I've always just been a guy that likes to enjoy life.

Like, I honestly always have. I come from a very hardworking family. My dad worked his ass off. Still does, probably too much. Needs to lay down every once in a while. Refuses to do so because he's just a working grunt, you know what I mean? But I've got a chance to do a lot of cool things, travel the world a lot.

And I just try to enjoy everything. And that with the work ethic that my dad, instill to me. I think it's kind of come together for success, but I ask myself very often why this is good, why this is working. Haven't gotten an answer yet, and hopefully we'll just continue to figure it out as we go on here, Ryan. You also seem to get so much joy out of making your close friends and people beyond that really happy. I watched the video when you handed the duffel bags of $50,000 to all of your boys after one of your initial deals that you got done. You've since given much, much more money out to them and others. And that video was awesome. I watched it with my family actually, Pat, because to show

them, like, look how much joy this guy gets out of taking care of his friend. That's inspiring, man. I want to do that. Can you just walk me through how you think about taking care of your boys and doing it with them? Well, it's kind of been the goal, and I appreciate that, man. Thank you. That's been the goal ever since, you know, forever. Like, I want to make enough money to kind of take care of everybody and have a good time with life. Like, that was the only goal for work. Like, how do I go about making that happen? In high school, I was recruited a lot more for soccer than I was for football, a lot more, like probably 15 to 20x more for soccer than I was for football. But I, you know, business decision wanted to be rich in America, not rich in Europe. The reason to be rich in America is because I wanted to be

original with my family and my friends. I want to enjoy it. So then I get in the NFL and AJ, you probably experience this, especially at number five overall. Oh, that money. Ooh, that early. I wouldn't have been able to handle it. Nonetheless, you probably experienced this. I got, I had a lot of money. I was able to go on these trips and have a good time, but all my friends were working. So I'd go back to, like, I would take my vacations to Pittsburgh where all my friends were still working. And like on a Wednesday night, I'd be forcing them to go out to like tequila sunshine or something like that on like our basic Pittsburgh bar on like a Wednesday night because like that was really what out like let's have a good time let's enjoy it i've always

wanted to do it with my people and like this avenue has kind of showed up and it's been perfect for it all but the group that i'm with right now a j included obviously every single day these dudes are awesome right like these guys or so the reason why i get so excited whenever we accomplish something is because these dudes work their asses of off. These guys have bought in completely to what we're trying to do. These dudes show up here every day trying to make everybody's life better. It's like whenever you have that type of stuff with what we got going on, it's magical. I'm very lucky to do it every single day. And, you know, my wife and I just announced this morning that, you know, we are pregnant. We're, we just finished the first trimester.

We've been through a long road to a topic pregnancies, two surgeries in which I thought my wife was potentially going to die because of internal bleeding, then IVF here. And we're past the first trimester so we felt comfortable enough to tell the world about it. Like, I just hope that my kid, you know, if I'm lucky enough to have a child at this point, which I keep saying, but it's a very real thing for what we've been through. I hope my kid has a work ethic and I hope my kid has like a sense of joy for life. Like just try to enjoy everything. Even if I'm in a terrible situation, you will hear me say this is awesome.

Just because I know the story of me talking about this to other people is going to be awesome. So if I'm in a terrible situation, I'm trying to get as much information as possible out of it. I try to make it an enjoyment because I know at one point in the future, this is going to be a hilarious story and a hilarious night to tell. So I'm always looking like that and I appreciate you acknowledging it, Ryan. I honestly do. I appreciate it. Age, jump in here about your relationship with Pat, while we're all together. I know Pat's got to get ready for the show today, but I want you to say your piece too.

Yeah, a lot of prep. well pat like he said uh he said if he looks if he's in a terrible situation he said this is awesome i've been in a few of those with you pat and they're not even like i guess you have the pat does have like he's like uh chris angel he's like a magician where he can take a we can be in a terrible situation that nobody wants to be at and it can become something like what we talk about we talk about for years later yeah no reason no reason there's multiple specifics i'm I'm not pointing to one thing, but I'm just saying there's been a couple of things where over the time where he's like, hey, you should come to this with me and instant, like, nope, no chance,

not doing it. I'm busy. Got something going on. Usually I'm trapped actually staying in the vicinity or in the same house that Pat is actually rented for us, so I can't really get out of it. And I show up and we do stuff and we hang out and we go to have an event or whatever that we thought would be terrible. It turns out we talk about it for the next six months, year, two years, three years, because we get there. And like Pat says, like this, he's, he definitely lives it. But you say like this. is like everything is like a movie everyone's like a character in a movie and i especially when i am with pat i easily slide right into that mode and i can hang out and enjoy it myself too with him so it's

yeah i forgot to mention that right i view life as a movie and it's not the right way to go about things i apologize because i'm probably not as serious as i should be in things but if like some asshole comes walking in and is yelling at me i'm like oh this is seen in a movie right now that we're going to be talking about and like and then that person like leaves and was like hey how about when And I have a pretty good memory, too. My memory pretty solid. So that has been, you know, I don't know when that's going to go pistol. I hope that it would just remain forever.

But yeah, I think that's just an easier way for me to get through life. That's how I've done. I'm not saying everybody does it. But AJ and I have, we've conquered some terrible situations. And immediately after all of them, it is like tears laughing, like immediately afterwards, which I don't know if that's how it normally is, but that's kind of how my life has been. So AJ, I appreciate the hell out of your presence of my life, though, but you have, you've really added something to not only our show, but to our lives that I think is the

missing piece for our business. You're like the missing puzzle piece, pal, that somehow drops in from Ohio with your toxicity. And it is, it's a dream fit for us. And we're very appreciative of you, honestly. I said before you jumped on, I didn't know you were jumping on, Ryan asked me what I've been doing the last couple of years since me, him and Pist, recorded together. I said pretty much the same as I've been doing with you, and I hope to continue to do it for a long time,

because I've said a million times, like, you and the boys are awesome. It's fun, man. I haven't talked, I haven't interacted with a big group of people that much and actually continue to enjoy speaking with them in my life. I don't think as much as I deal with all you guys. I don't know if that's a slam right to other people. I don't mean it as a slight to anyone else.

I mean it as a compliment to you and the boys, 100%. Yeah, yeah, good group. We got a good group here. They're good dudes. We got good dudes here, you know, and you fit in perfectly. And it makes sense after I met Ryan. I'm like, oh, the whole family's awesome. And Pistol, you know, I hope to be able to share at least a-

He's a power lift. What is your power lifter, Pistol? You're lifting right now? I lift. I'm not a power lifter, but I'm doing the right things. I'm doing the right things you do when you're retired. Take care of yourself. You smoking dope?

I'm not going to comment on that. Hey, no, my, baby. I enjoy it. I didn't know if there was the right things for retirement. But Pistol, hopefully we'll get to hang out one time as well. And Ryan, congrats on 500 episodes, dude. Not easy. Honestly, not. A lot of people quit. A lot of people can't put the time in. It's also like, you know what they say colleges? College, I didn't learn anything in college. I didn't graduate from college.

I didn't learn anything academically. Now, my major was not great. I mean, I didn't show up to class. I didn't graduate. I mean, I actually had to write a letter to the, the teachers, my senior year and say, please just don't drop me from the class because I'm not going to be here, but I need 12 hours to be eligible for the season. So I need you not to drop me. That's all. Like, give me an F. I'm cool with it. That was my college football college experience. It's not great, not good for West Virginia, but I was able to get through 10, whatever, nonetheless. They say like, if you stick with something for four years, though, and you graduate, like, that's a big

tell for a lot of people that are high. Like, college, what you're learning exactly might not carry over to the real world, but what we're all learning about you if you graduated from college is that you're able to stick with something for at least four years. You're able to get it done and you're able to move on. Doing 500 episodes, the amount of commitment, discipline, and work that takes is something I think we all have learned about Ryan Hawk being an incredibly badass dude, but your leadership, the words that you say are great. You should be incredibly proud, pal, and I'm thankful that you asked me to come on here. Thank you, man. I know you got to run. What's next for you guys? Future billionaire are going to take over the world?

when it comes to the new media. There's millions of people following, trying to do what you've already done. And you've just scratched the surface. What's next? Well, we'd like to obviously say thank you to Draymond Green and LeBron for starting the new media and giving us. I'm not going to even take it. I love everybody that's getting into new media.

I like the modern media. I like the free media. You know, I like the people have access to be able to watch and hear things. that are of good content as opposed to necessarily a couple different outlets, controlling what people hear and the stories that were able to tell. And the personalities were able to meet. Like, I think, I think that's just what we'll continue to do. Business-wise, I shut down all negotiations during the season so that we could have a season here.

And that was kind of a funny time because that never happens. I don't think in the business world, especially in the media business world, where you send, we're in a middle of negotiation with somebody, pretty large, pretty large negotiation. And I go, hey, we got a deadline. You know, it's like Lamar Jackson being like, when Rams and Chiefs kick off on Thursday night football to kick off this 2020 season, I'm going to be difficult to get a hold of. So if we were going to get a deal done, it's going to have to be in like the next three days. Like we're going to have to do this.

So whenever the season ends, I'm excited to see what conversations continue. I'm excited to see what conversations pop up. I think the only thing that I've like maintained and said is that our show always remain free. Like that will be now YouTube's free. There's other platforms that are free. that's really my only goal is to keep the main show, the main show, continue to grow that, keep that good vibes, keep it free. But who knows what else will pop up?

I mean, it was in WrestleMania last year. You know what I mean? I'm in college game. It's the dumbest life of all the time. Things are presenting themselves because of the great group of people I hang out with. And I think the future is bright, though, right? I think. I think so.

I think you got a shot, man. I think so. I'm so grateful for you to pop on with this man. I know you got to get ready for the show. So I'd encourage everybody for somehow you don't know about Pat and AJ's show 12 o'clock, every day. YouTube. Talk about consistency, man. Like, that's every day is insane.

That's insane to do it. And I'm so impressed by all the stuff you do, including in the weekends with Game Day on Saturdays. And you've really, I think, made that show kind of you can't really miss it anymore. So big on them for signing you, good on you for doing it because now I love watching ESPN Game Day on Saturday because you're a part of it, man. It was a great show before I got there. Obviously, that's what Ryan Hawk meant. But I do feel like I am in a good fit there. I feel like I'm in a good fit there.

That is wrestling and football coming together. It feels like that is the proper spot for me. And obviously, another Ohio, I don't know what the language is. Center of a Welk. Center of a Welk. Another Elk, Kirk Herb Street and I have great rapport. So that helps whenever you're on air. I mean, that is obviously something good.

Reese Davis, great host, Desmond Howard, good guy. Coach Corso, I think he's going to be back. That stuff has been, I get his phone number, okay? Me and Coach Corso are going to become Paizano's, you know, because he's Italian, we're going to become friends. I get his phone number. Then the next week's Clemson, he's not there. Then like, so I thought we were about to become real tight because I have nothing but utmost respect for that man. And then all of a sudden, you know, some medical stuff starts popping up because he's like 80 something years old or whatever, still runs and walks very fast and talks fast. He's unbelievable. But I appreciate that. Saturday

mornings have been tough, though, you know? because of what you said about every day, you know, we're going Monday through Friday, like three, four hours every single day. And then Saturday mornings were my sleep. You know, I used to sleep in on Saturday mornings because Sunday got to watch all the games. So now no longer get to sleep,

get to do like one of the most electrifying shows on TV. So it's had to alter the schedule a little bit. But I'm loving it. I'm enjoying the hell out of it. I'm lucky to do it. And thank you for having me on, man. Good luck on the next 500. Ryan Pistol, can't wait to lift and smoke with you in person.

AJ, you're the man, bro. I'll see you guys soon. Thanks, Pat. All right, man. Thanks, man. See you, man. Thank you. I wanted to surprise you, age, to have your colleague.

I think you said, is this the only other company you've worked for other than the National Football League, is Pat McAfee Industries, PMI is what it's called, right? Yeah, PMI. Yeah, it definitely would be. I've done, like, I guess I've always been independent contractor for FS1 for a little bit in different other places, little media things, but nothing as permanent. as consistent as I'm doing, yeah, especially five days a week, no question. I didn't think I'd, I didn't think I'd be doing that, but like I said before, I love doing it. Love doing it. So a little

detour for the people who don't know Pat, which I know there are some, like, well, what are you doing? I love Pat. I love the energy he brings, and I love that you and him get to get to hang out every day because I think it's amazing the show and what you guys do. So I'll get back to some of the regularly scheduled stuff that I sent you guys in the outline leading up to this one. I want to go to one of the questions from a guy named David Salvador who is VP at GoGo Aviation, he said, what is the most impactful investment you can make in yourself for your career? Pistol, I want you to go first and age you go, I'll go too, but let's go in that order. So what's the most impactful investment you can make in yourself and your career? I think we've talked about this

in the past, but I think it's important since he asked the question. in that way. I think the most important skill that an individual can develop, and I'm speaking specifically on the business world, I guess, is the ability to speak in front of a group, be it a conference room where you're advocating for a position, be it a stage where you're giving a speech. I don't think you can make a more important personal investment for your profession than getting opportunities to get up in front of people and speak, not just give a speech, but be able to react to criticism,

to critique, to pointed questions, and come out the other side of it successful. And there are lots of ways to do that. Some of it study. Some of it is practicing, for sure. A lot of it is having mentors or more formalized training

to actually exercise the muscle and develop the muscle, of speaking in front of other people. And my career, I think that was perhaps the most important element that allowed me to do what I was able to do. No doubt. Age, how about you? Man, that's kind of tough. I was trying to think what would be the most important as Pistol was talking. But speaking publicly, I think, is, I mean, I guess there's obviously jobs where someone can isolate and they can be in a computer 18 hours a day and not have to interact with people.

That person, maybe public speaking is not as big a deal. but eventually they're going to have to deal with people and superiors and co-workers. And I think being able to communicate with people and actually listen is huge. I try to do that. Like, as you get older, you have kids. I think kids make me think about things all the time way more than I did before I had any kids. And having four of them, they all have their own little individual issues. So I'm constantly figuring out like, okay, what can I do?

How do I help? Like this kid, like each kid has their own different little things going on or different issues they might come up. Like how, what can I learn or how do I handle this to give them the best chance to, like, get through it or to help them through it? And so it's always things like that. But I don't have any, like, I don't have any specifics. The only thing I know is like, listen, like find a way to actually listen because it's really hard to listen when someone starts speaking. Like kids, like they'll start speaking and you know they might be saying something like, man, I don't think they believe that. Like it sounds wrong.

It sounds rude or whatever. But just got to let them get it out. Let them finish. That's all like my daughter wants. She's 11. We ride in the car 30 minutes to and from school every day. She just wants me to sit. She wants like, dad, just please stop talking. If I'm like, well, you don't want to, well, you're still like, you're not going to quit though or something. You try to chime in and say things like that. And she's like, no, I'm not. But just let me finish. And all they just want to get everything out. Just want to speak and like, get it out. And I think just being able to sit there and be like, okay. And not even have any response. Like that's all people want. They want you to listen to them. And so I feel hurt. I think as I've gotten older, like, yeah, that's all. If I listen, you can usually kind of figure things out. Brian, can I help add to his response? Because he's modest. And you've done this, at least as much or more than I have around AJ,

but through the years when we speak to his teammates and coaches to some degree, if you ask about age, they'll talk about the way he plays. But I think being a great teammate is not just something that happens automatically. it's actually a skill and a mindset. And becoming an exceptional teammate to others is not just a football thing. But I think if I pointed at age and say, especially at the professional level, what's maybe his greatest impact? It was being an important and a great teammate.

I agree. And I think you do the same thing with Pat and the boys too, and knowing your role. Right. And Patrick Glenscioni, we cut a little clip of this. And I sent it to you and Pat about about when it's time to speak up. when it's time to let somebody else kind of run the show and know your role and play it well. I think that's a critical to why you guys do so well on your show.

So I agree, Pistol. I think what I would say maybe a little bit more tangible is I would get a job in sales. If you don't know what to do, every single job in the world has an element of sales. Even if you don't have a quota or you don't carry a bag, you have to sell. Dan Pink's book, To Sell As Human is a great one to run. read in addition to getting a job in sales. But I actually, one of the companies I worked at, there was a senior executive who felt like he didn't fully understand the product well enough. He was a senior VP of product. He spent a full year as a sales rep selling the product with a

full quota. I went on rides with him. And this guy got measurably better by the end of that one year. And then he went back to this senior role. It was really cool that he did this. But I thought it took a lot of guts and security in himself to do it. But I think, get a job in sales or learn to sell something. Do cut code knives, do whatever you got to do. Any sales at all? Like any kind of sales? Anything because the reason, a big element of being an exceptional sales professional

is exactly what you said, is you're a great listener. And you uncover, and I just had this conversation yesterday. I had a keynote and afterwards we were talking about great sales professionals. I said the best ones are awesome at the discovery phase of the selling process. And the discovery phase is when you are primed. primarily asking questions and listening. You're not pitching. You're waiting.

You're waiting. You wrote, Get Real Selling all about this. You're waiting. You're waiting. You're listening. You're asking questions. You're taking notes. And eventually, you will come back and show them how your solution will help solve their problems.

But you have to figure out what their problems are. And that takes deep discovery. That takes a lot of questions. That takes great listening skill. That's not pitching. And you've told me this a long time ago, a great sales professional isn't a hard closer. It shouldn't be an exclamation point to get a deal. It should be the period at the end of a very long sentence.

That's what great salesmanship is. And so I think if you're like me when you graduated and you played football and didn't think about anything else, that's what I think you should do. But even if you're not like me, if you're a doctor, if you're a lawyer, if you're an accountant, if you're anything, you will be way more valuable to your company or to your business if you can sell. And so that would be an investment I would make in myself is to learn whether, and you could do this by reading sales books, right? You could do this by, but I think it helps to actually have a quota over your head and have to do it. Don't you have to actually do it? Sales has got to be a reps thing too, I feel like.

I think so. I think I had no idea what I was doing at the beginning of it and the repetitions and an immense amount of failure and rejection over and over helped me get better, as well as being around other people. I worked in an office with, I could hear people making calls. They could sit with me and I could sit with them. If I didn't have that first job at Lexus for those years,

both as a retention rep and a new business rep where I got to take care of current customers and then have to go get and hunt for new ones, if I didn't have that, the current stuff that I do, it wouldn't exist. It would not exist because there's so much, element of this that is about that I learned as a sales professional even though technically you wouldn't say that's what my job is now but there's a huge part of

it I mean I got to get guest and so I got to write cold emails all the time I have to convince famous people why it's worth an hour of their time right I had to send Pat a text to say hey you know I'd love you to do this there was some salesmanship there right and so with all of these things I think that's the advice I'd give to anybody regardless of what you're going to do is to to learn to sell would be a great skill. Okay, let me do one more from a listener and then I have some other kind of superlative type questions

before we draft. Haley Erickson, she's someone who I've corresponding with over the years about her career and she's a CPA now doing great. She said, who is one of the most impactful people in your life and how have they impacted you? This is a big one. Let's have you go first again.

So just broadly stated impactful people in your life? Yeah, one. I'll pick one, but the precursor I'll give to it is I think it changes in different points in your life. Yeah. I remember a high school teacher, coach who I identified with in a huge way. And early in your career, you have mentors and models and later in your career. It's just changes. And by the way, we have to give this as well.

I think if we didn't answer our spouse, that would probably be a kind of a problem. So I'm going to assume that the person that we are married. So mom popped in your head. Like in the middle of your answer, you're talking about this teacher, you're thinking about this person. And all of a sudden you said, wrong answer, wrong. I need to edit. But if I'm honest, I mean, that really is the most impactful person.

I'm with all the time. So let's credit her. Credit that person. She only, but also, Pistol, like you may be like a. geriatric when it comes to technology. Mom is way beyond that. So she's only going to hear this if you play it for her. I know.

Okay. So there's that. And she will definitely hear. But to go beyond, I think at the most impressionable time when I was in business, there was a leader who I idolized. I thought he was like John Wayne. I thought he was a great dad. I thought it was an amazing leader.

He happened to be also an exceptional salesperson. I've mentioned him many times. in the past. He spoke at my retirement. I had lunch with him just the other day. He named Mert McGill, who sold Lexis to the U.S. Supreme Court. All nine justices showed up for the sales call, and he successfully sold our product in the early days of our business. He's just this legendary figure that it was very tough. He wasn't a nice, soft, squishy guy. He was tough, but man, did we respect the daylights out of that guy? So he's somebody that was probably impactful at a really important impressionable age for me age i mean pistol says that name i remember

murk McGill the name so obviously he had an impact i remember from being a young kid i don't know if i could i can't like zero in on just one as like i don't know if that's the the question exactly but i mean i'm the youngest of three boys so you ryan my middle brother burke my oldest brother you guys giant impact on me my whole life trying to do what you guys were doing uh obviously Pistol and mom. Basically what you see every day, what you grow up doing is what I think kind of mold you or you get your whole as smart.

What are smart people say? Oh, that's how it informs me for the rest of my life or whatever. Like, you know, people try to sound smarter than they are. Oh, well, I'm informed or whatever. My opinion's informed through that, even though I'm using that not even the right way. But that's a giant impact. But a couple guys pop out in my head,

a guy named Markovat, who I think both of you know Pistol knows maybe a little better than Ryan. He was a strength coach in Green Bay when I was there. Now he's the assistant strength coach because the dude is, you know, he's, he was the head strength coach. The new head coach comes in and he says, hey, no, the guy who's my assistant, he should be the head guy. So Mark promotes, gets his buddy promoted to the head strength coach and takes the assistant strength coaching gig because he felt like Chris Gizzy, it was his time. He'd done the work. He'd been there.

He'd done everything. and now he should be the head strength coach. And that's what it is still today. Whoa, I didn't know that. Are you serious? He demoted himself? Yeah, when he interviewed with the floor. He didn't say it.

LaFleur told people that, I guess. But he interviewed with the floor and said, hey, this guy, Gizzy should be the main dude right now. And he kind of took the assistant role. So that's the kind of guy, Mark is. And he's not your prototypical strength coach. You played baseball in college. So he's not the big old meathead looking dude,

but he's very fit, strong but like the most cerebral what he would always tell me say hey tuna my dad told me still water you know still waters run deep he always said that he calls me tuna because we like the office so we call each other tuna and still text and he was such a he's such a unique character in that whole NFL world it was awesome like I gravitated to him instantly and he definitely changed how I viewed certain things like the the times when he would have to tell me like hey man like you're Like you're doing it wrong. That like instantly stopped it.

Like if I thought something was dumb, if I thought, I think I've told people before like in like stretch lines. And I don't like stretching. I never loved stretching and warming up. If I was like not, if I was kind of mocking it or making a joke of it, like one time he just came to me.

He's like, I'm just telling you. Like he basically told me no. Like you're wrong here. Just figure it out. Stop it. And I was like, oh, okay.

And it scared you enough. I still remember. I still remember being in the stretch line when he comes over and doesn't raise his voice, doesn't say anything, but basically it was like, you're an idiot. Like, you're stupid. I get what you're doing and you're wrong. And he didn't even have to say in those words, but it had a huge impact on me. And that's how he is.

Guys like that, I'm super lucky. There's a lot of them, but he's one if I had to, like, pick. I think Mark Luat definitely has a giant impact from my, when I first got in the NFL, and now 20 years later. I would assume he's a guy who only, speaks when necessary so that when he does it really means something. Absolutely. Yeah, he's very, yeah, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, he's the greatest guy to like sit on a bus and have a conversation with. But yeah, he's not,

he's not wasting words. Like he if he's speaking, it's for a reason. I think that's a great lesson for leaders in general because that's the type of leader we want to be, right? Is when I decide to speak, there's going to be, there's a purpose behind it. Like, you think that's a great lesson. of a stand-up comedians and economy of words. I think leaders should think of it the same way. If you're in a meeting, the person who always speaks up all the time throughout every single little bit of the meeting, eventually you just start tuning them out. Or their words just carry so much less weight versus a Mark Levatt, who you know when he speaks up, you're like, oh,

this is real. Like, he means it. He doesn't, he's not just trying to hear himself talk. So I think that's a great leadership lesson from a real life story. If I didn't name, somebody aged. I'd name, I mean, obviously, our family is first and foremost before anything else, and it sets the model for how you should behave. So I think we have that. Pat mentioned some of that stuff for Pistol. I'd have to just go back to Coach Greg and Coach Allery. It's such the formative years of your life when you're an eighth grader and they ask you to come work out with a varsity team and you're still not sure of yourself. You're not confident yet. You're small and skinny. And I say you are on a meeting me. And then they look at you.

and say, you're gonna play for us. Like, you're actually gonna help us win games. And I'm still thinking, no, there's no way. Are you kidding me? I'm not good enough to do that. And then what they teach you from a leadership perspective is that you can instill belief in other people. And if you prove to them that you believe in them,

you can help them perform at levels that are hired that they even think they're capable of. So I draw so much from them to, because they did that for me, that I now hope to try to try to do that for other people. And so this idea of creating belief, I love meeting maybe people a little bit younger who aren't fully sure. I had another centerville quarterback guy named Alec Grandin at my event in Nashville recently. Alex's way beyond his years. He's 22 now.

And I love the thought of us, me and Brooke Cups and some other older people instilling belief in what he's going to do for his career. And I fully expect him to be a general manager in the NFL someday. That's his goal. That's his dream. And he's really diligent about wanting to do this. And so to be able to play that role that Coach Gregg and Coach Aller played for us, I think that's pretty cool. That's a good feeling. And I feel super lucky and grateful that we got to experience those guys because, you know, age, you go to college and you hear about the coaches of other, of your teammates. And I kind of looked around and talked to a lot of guys and I realized nobody's got the stories that I've got. nobody has the coach Greg and coach

Alarie's that I had so it just you realize oh what was normal for me was not the case for everybody else and that's pretty surreal experience when you fully have time to reflect on how how impactful they were well they got lucky we were

that's where we grew up and that's who our coaches were like Coach Craig who's legend there for what 30 years and then coach already takes over after he was the offensive coordinator for so long and everyone else my lineback coach Larry Knopfsinger. Like I call into, I call into Bobby Carpenter's radio show every Friday and they have like an intro that they made for when I call in. And at the end of it

says, still scared to Larry Knopf Singer. Like it's a guy's, it's a voiceover guy. And because Bobby's co-host went to Centerville as well. And it's just, yeah, it's like when you look back, man, yeah, our life would have been a lot different if we didn't have those guys. If they weren't our coaches, like everything would have been different, I think. Oh, yeah. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. Let's go to some of the quicker ones that I have before we draft. Pat's section dug in a little bit to our outline here, which I'm so grateful that he did. So I like this one. I got asked about family traditions. How about you start with this? What is one of our best family traditions?

I think the one that pops to my mind that we have certainly exercised the most that began AJ's rookie year in Green Bay and continued on. And we even did it. No, second. I think. think second year. Okay. When was Clay drafted? Is either you the year younger than your age? Oh, his dad helped us with some of our words. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Okay. Well, early in his career at Green Bay. And continues on to this day. We even did it in the back room before we went on to your wedding day. I recall, we modified it slightly. It was something we called the victory shot. And it was to signify there's something really important and awesome about to happen.

And we're going to start it with an excolns. point. And I mean, if it's very simple, it was play healthy, play great, win the game, and occasionally we'd get a little bit more excited about that last phrase and add some things to it. And we would all down our commemorative victory shot. And some of them are more memorable than others, the Super Bowl. You and I, I think, in a parking garage in Chicago. Yeah, that's a good degree to sit there before AJ plays in the NFL, NFC champion. championship game. I was by myself in Seattle when it's out there for the NFC championship game. And it's just me and a bunch of strangers. And you said, you've got to do a victory shot.

And I found a stranger wearing a Green Bay hat. I got him a shot. And we did the thing with his girlfriend videoing it so we could send it to you. So the victory shot clearly has been a great family tradition. And now it's kind of gotten beyond just the games and stuff since we're not playing. I remember we were at the game with Clay's dad, so I guess that would be Clay Matthews number two. Your teammate was Clay 3, right, age? And he said, you know, the goals for these games, right?

You know what the goal is here? I was like, what are we talking about? He goes, you got to stay healthy first and foremost. That's the first goal. I want Clay to stay healthy. Then I hope he plays great. Then I want him to get some sacks, maybe a turnover or something. And then I want us to win the game.

And that's the order of priorities. And I was like, I like that. Stay healthy. Play great. Let's go win the game. And as I watch you play age, that was my, those are my goals. I first and foremost want you to walk off the field healthy, as healthy as you can be. And then I want you to play great.

Like, I'm not going to lie, if you got four sacks or that Baltimore game, I think you guys won that game. You sacked Flacco three times or you get interception when you pick off Fav or whatever it may be. I cared a little bit more about you playing well and being healthy than the team win. But it is the trifecta is if you get all three, right? As if you're healthy, you play great and your team wins, that's the ultimate. And now that we still kind of keep that tagline with whatever we do. And now we watch our kids play age, and I'm thinking the same things. I just want to, all right, Charlie's got a broken arm.

I hope she doesn't hurt this thing worse when she's playing soccer. So hope she stays healthy. I hope she plays great. And it'd be nice if we win the game. So I think the victor shot has turned into a pretty cool tradition that can go on. And there is a shot at the end. that's what the victory shot is, right? A Washington apple. And then pistol throws down his shot. It's usually plastic shot glasses. Pistols a left-handed. South Paul fires that thing on the ground

and, like, the whole crowd erupts. And it's like, let's go to the stadium. We've done a, and we've always invited guests through the, through the years, right? There's been a lot of guests to have done a lot of victory shots. Does they don't have that? You should put those, any, like, of all the ones that you have filmed, you should put those. We didn't film enough and we should, though. We got a lot of pictures. We got a lot of pictures. We could put it. in the garage when we had Brian from the office

Brian Baumgardner and he loved it and he went on the national sports show the next week and it's

describing the victory shot to the host we should one of the most epic ones though it was the Super Bowl

Pistol sitting there very stoic serious look age we're all sitting there and everyone's eyes are dialed in it's like the

coach is getting ready to give the pregame speech for the Super Bowl you're wearing Ohio State gear I remember

I'm looking pretty it's intent there's there's there's beers everywhere and but we all got our washing apple ready to go looking at pistols he's like this is the most serious victory shot of all time and what a night uh to to win that super bowl that you did and and and you were captain of that team and to have you guys win and then go hang out with kid rock afterwards was was was pretty epic how about pistol this one's interesting it's a little different you know we did storyworth they've been a sponsor of this podcast this

obviously isn't sponsored but story worth i love It created a really cool book that you made for all of us, but one of them was on keys to a great marriage. And now that you and mom are down in Florida for a part of the year, you're onto this next stage where, you know, it's mainly your kids are kind of doing their thing. So, so we still need you and want you, but not as much as we used to. It's more grandkids stuff, or it's now just you two, kind of doing your own thing. What would be some of your age, I'm going to ask you too, so get ready, but Pistol, what would be some of your things? thoughts on the keys to a great marriage, given that there are so many different stages

that you've been through pre-kids, or at least pre-us. You know, Burke was there when you guys met. But that stage then as we grew up and now, when we're out of the house. Well, I think we kind of called our shot early. Before we got married, when we went out and got rings, inside my ring are three letters, C, a C, and a C. Three letter C's.

And they all stand for something important. The first one to see is for communication. We believe that you need to talk and talk often and talk real. I mean, not just talk at each other or over each other. Talk, listen. So that's a big one. Communication has always been key for us. We still sit every morning and have our coffee, talk about important stuff of the day.

The second one, the second C stands for consideration. And so think about this is another important. This is another important person. In fact, it's the most important person in your life. Be considerate. Be a nice person. Be great in the way you deal with them and respect them always. And the third one to see is a kind of a fun one that says stands for cuddling.

And it says, don't forget that's your girlfriend right there and vice versa. And we've kind of lived by that and evolved. It clearly changes as you get older. it has gotten better, not worse. I think it's possible for relationships to get stale. I think we got juice at key compelling moments. When you guys left the house, right, in your different phases, AJ being the last one, we were really concerned about that

because you guys were so important to our daily lives and not being around us all the time was going to change things. So that was a critical moment. and our CCC's helped us through that a lot. And then all the way through to seeing your careers and your kids, that's giving us new life, new juice. And then retirement, you've got to plan and do things. I think one of the most important things is to not just show up every day

and kind of watch TV, check your email. You've got to plan things, go do things, plan key events, to always be excited about. And we do that and we continue to do that. And so I think my little CCC on the ring from the very beginning has held pretty true for us. Love it. Love it. Age.

Well, I mean, that's well said by Pistol. I just wonder if Mom could, you know, could interpret the three Cs as well as he could. Do you think she could talk us through the three Cs as well as you can, Pistol? She's a co-author, so yes. She could. Okay. She just lets you, she lets you be the mouthpiece for that. Okay. I get it. I understand. But I mean, there's no, like, there's no special pill. There's no special. I always say it for anything. There's no like, oh, boom, here we go. There's your solution. That's all you got to do. And successful marriage, 50 years, you're going to be happy. No. First off, you got to get lucky to where the person you decide to marry, like you, it's legit. And everything that you thought before you got married is still the same after marriage. gets better. Like Pistol said, I've been married 16 years now, which is crazy, how long I've been married. And it's way better now. And I'm not saying it was ever bad, but like, I think of it all the time. I tell my wife, I'm like, I think you're better looking now than you've ever been in your

life. I'm trying to keep up. But I think I like her way more than I used to. And I'm not saying I didn't like it before, but I'm saying it always gets better. And it sounds like you're saying negative things. It feels like you haven't thought this through. It feels like you have not thought I tell her this. I tell her this over time. It leads with toxicity. Oh, my God. I tell her this. I tell her this. It doesn't mean anything. Like, when I, the day I got married, I'm like, this is awesome. Like, this is the best. Obviously, I wasn't worried at all. Like, this is what I want. But it's only gotten better from there is what I'm saying. It wasn't like, oh, we had this, this great honeymoon phase. And we were cool. Oh, here we go. Everything's great. And it was almost like it wasn't real life. And then now we're getting to real life and we hate each other. It's not that. It's better because we're around each other more and the kids and everything we do. But. I think Pistol's saying you got to schedule things and do things. Absolutely. Don't just because once you have kids, there's like you have to have your like your rhythm,

your routine you're in. But you got to change that up sometimes. You got to do things whether like whatever it may be, whatever you enjoy doing, even like being able to go for a walk when it's nice or do whatever. I got these little electric scooters we go around on just whatever you, you want to do come up with stuff and hang out. And also like it's good to have other couples that you're friends with.

that you get along with where the wives get along, everyone gets along and everyone's cool. Pistol and mom are lucky. Like you've had that card club, as you call it, for however many years where you still hang out with the same couples you hung out with. I remember being a little kid,

and you guys would have these like monthly parties at somebody's house, and Pistol was always the ringleader, would bring the big easel home from Lexus Nexas, from Me Data Central back then, and he'd set it up in the living room, and I remember, like, creeping out of my room and watching them play,

like win-loser draw or picturenery the pistol would always be you know pistol was always the game guy the high energy like pat say jack bringing everybody together but i think things like that are cool like we i find myself in situations like that every once in a while with other couples i don't have the juice and the natural charisma pistol has to bring the easel and run the show but i love being a part of those things and i think it helps in a relationship too because you want to try to like you want to try to perform and make your spouse laugh too at times. Like that's my whole goal is to get an audible laugh out of my wife because it's pretty tough to do because I throw a lot at her on a day-to-day basis. So when I can get her off kilter and get her to laugh at something, it makes

me feel great. I love it. Which happens a lot. I've been witness to a lot of them. And it was cool when we talked about with Brady when I worked with Laura to make that mug for you. It was really need to see the stories that she had told about you and your relationship over the years to help put that thing together. I think you have to really admire the person and have deep respect for who they are and what they do. I think that's what I have. An admiration for the excellence of Miranda's just being as a person as well as I think the person needs, it's nice at least, I guess in my case, if their presence makes you a better person. I think that's a really big key. I think they have to.

I think your spouse has to make you, your spouse needs to help you grow and be a better person and not be stuck in whatever you are. Like you can't stay a sheltered couple together that never, never is scared to death to have a view or even, I know people who it does, I don't know why it frustrates me where it's almost like couples are scared to even hear somebody else's opinion or hear somebody's view. Oh, that's not me. What do you?

Oh, it's like just, yeah, like just be open to other stuff too. Yeah, I agree. I think that's big. And so having, when you have this mutual respect and admiration for just the way they are, their work ethic, their toughness, their resilience, their beauty, their ability to love, I think that's important. Our situation is different. And Pistol, you could experience a little bit with me, but coming into a relationship when both people have kids is so different. You have to love each other's kids as if they're your own. And that doesn't automatically happen. And that takes, at least for me, it, like, there's a love there, but that takes some time. It's different. And it goes both ways. But then to build it from that, I think if you get past that initial stage, it can be so strong because it's harder initially than it is if you didn't have any kids, I think, going into it. So I think that's really big. And then, yeah, growing together is big.

I read a quote about you actually have to kind of love four or five different people because as you grow, you hopefully are, becoming better. You're not necessarily changing, but you do, you are a little different in each of these stages. It's important to think to both have your own thing, but then to also kind of grow towards a similar spot is really important. And then as you said, age, I think it's really key. When I was doing research for my last book, The Pursuit of Excellence and asked about friendship, which I think is important in a marriage, that you're actually genuinely friends. the subject of laughter came up so much about transformational friendships of when I was doing my own research of just so many people on how they needed and wanted laughter and humor. And I think it's underrated in a relationship that it's so helpful if that's, it's so helpful to have that as be part of your regular interactions that you actually make each other laugh.

And age, I've seen the extent that you go to try to make that happen. and it not only works with Laura, but probably with everybody in the room. So I think that's key. Do you guys want to do the draft? Sure. Yes. I can't wait to see Pistols Draft. Okay.

So here is the, let me lay this out. The draft. It is your birthday. You are having dinner. Now, we've had some really cool family dinners on our birthdays over the years. Mine was one of the recent ones that I absolutely loved. It was the only gift I asked for for Miranda is can you try to get everybody together? because it's hard with all our kids stuff and we did it.

Mom's had some epic ones pistol. I feel like we skip over yours to full family sometimes. We have like a little mixture of people that make it. And then age, your birthday is a big one on the calendar that we try to make it to Columbus too and Bobby's there and everything. But for this particular birthday, no family is around. They've abandoned you. Like they're out of town.

They can't make it. So you get to pick who's at that table and you get to pick no friends that we that are like your inside buddies that none of us had ever heard of. So your friends are out of town, your family's out of town. But you can pick any human in the world, and they'll be at that table. So probably going to be somebody that we've heard of. Maybe it's somebody that'd be hard to get. Pistol, we're not dragging out Abraham Lincoln's corpse or anything like that.

These people need to be alive. Oh, they're going to be alive now? Yes. I told you this ahead of time. That's fine. I can pivot. I can think on my feet. Oh, this is going to be even better.

You had some dead people? You want to sit dead people at the table? A lot of dead people. Yeah, I thought it was a hypothetical situation. This is great. Let's go with you live. No, this is real age. It's January 6th, age's birthday.

And it, what? Yeah. So, okay, hold on. So that, that's what, that's what is. So it's, it's your birthday. And anybody in the world can be there who is going to be at your table. And we're going to draft, so like we normally do. So if once somebody drafts them,

They're off the table. So we're seeing who could have the most interesting, coolest, most fun birthday dinner. We're each going to get five people. So the table has got six seats. It's you and five other people. Pistol, you're going first. I'm going second. Age is the snake.

He doesn't understand snake drafts still after doing this seven times. Two picks, I think. He gets two picks. Yes, two picks. And then back to me, then Pistol gets two and back and forth until we get five. So Pistol, set the tone. I have you go first because I know you would never pick anybody the agent I want. And I go ahead of him because I'm not letting him steal my pick.

Who is the first person at your birthday table? And I think it's conceivable that Ryan would draft you, although this one, although maybe not number one. My first draft pick is someone I idolized. I read about him. I went to see him in person multiple times. He played stadiums. And in his line of work, there aren't many of the guys playing stadiums. His name is Steve Martin.

I knew it. He's on my board. Comedian, great actor, great participant on Saturday Night Live. Steve Martin. Steve Martin. Okay. By the way, I should have asked, did you have a philosophy for this draft? I'm not going to ask H.

I know he doesn't. have a philosophy for this draft? Yep. One common theme. Two things about their one common theme. They are great storytellers. And the lives they have lived, they have lots of stories to tell.

I like it. Okay. Mine philosophy, I like the storytelling element. They must be great communicators. That's big. I want to laugh. And I want to learn. So, got to be great communicators.

I want to laugh. And I want to learn. So there are some people that may be interesting, but if they're not going to, they can't really share well, it's not going to work. So my first pick, I think one of the most interesting humans in the world currently. He's is very famous, but I think he still seems genuine and even somehow down to earth, even though he's got immense fame. And so my first pick is the rock. He's going to be at my birthday table. The Rock is my first pick.

That's a pretty good pick. I didn't see that coming. Yeah, I think he's kind of got it all. You know what I mean? He's kind of got it all. I mean, he might be the president someday, honestly. Yeah, I would probably vote for him. I mean, he kind of has it all.

He's still relatable, even though he's not relatable at all. You know what I mean? It's weird. Okay. You get two picks. Who you going with? All right, my first pick, which I'm glad this person was not off the board. First pick, no question, Tom Cruise.

coming off to Top Gun success again. I believe Tom was in my celebrity foursome or whatever Forsom we picked last time to play golf. So Tom Cruise, no question. Nobody messes with T.C. He just, what, the newest Top Gun made like $10 billion. Right after they held it for three years during COVID, put it out, the guy saved the whole movie industry.

He's single-handedly saved movie theaters, I think. How about he did? And how about the fact that this guy understands the moment enough that when you go into the theater to watch Top Gun Maverick, the first thing you see is him talking directly to you, right into the camera. Has that ever happened for any other? No, of course not.

It was awesome. I loved it. It set the tone. It was awesome. I was so good. All right? Tom Cruise, I get another one, right?

Yeah, you get another one. This actually ties hand at hand because I think when you couple these two people together, great conversations may happen. I doubt I would even have to throw any questions over there. I'm just, my whole philosophy I just I think

I'm curious I there's people I'd like to ask questions to and these are people that I would question have a lot of questions for just in I'm strictly out of like man that's cool you you seem to live a crazy life oh this next one she's dead I can't use her it was Amelia Earhart why can I use dead people

you went through the whole set up this is what's amazing you went to the entire setup of who you're going to say and didn't realize until the last second well she may not be dead you're right Actually, she's... We never found a body. Put it on the list then.

She's my pick. Amelia Earhart because we don't know. We haven't found her yet. Nobody. There's been nobody. And who knows, I've read a lot of conflicting reports. She may be somewhere over in Brazil. We don't know.

But Amelia Earhart, we know Tom Cruise. He owns a P-51 that he flies himself. He flies every plane. Oh, you want pilots. You want pilots. These two pilots. These two are strictly pilots because I want... Can you imagine the questions?

Tom Cruise would stare at Amelia Earhart with his eyes so big just because Tom is a very, very curious dude. I would like to watch Tom just ask Amelia questions for two straight hours. I still think it's amazing that you went through the entire setup and forgot the rules on your second pick. It's not your fifth pick. Well, your second pick. To be honest.

I bailed him out. I bailed him out. As I had Amelia Earhart down first. Then I had Tom Cruise on my list next. And then I realized as I started to, I realized I was going to get two picks. I was like, well, yeah, I got a couple of these two together because the aviates. aspect. And so I got excited about that.

I forgot we weren't doing dead people. But then I remembered, hey, she might not be dead. Here we go. I got two picks on the board. All right. Okay. Tom Cruise, Amelia Earhart, it's great. Neither on my board, shockingly.

But so I get to go next. Don't steal my next ones either. I get to go next. I've got to pick a local guy. Local Ohio fame. Mike Hartsock. And I want to laugh and I want to be told stories.

Dave Chappelle is my second pick. Dave Chappelle. Good pick. Yeah. In the comedy club within 20 miles of us. I know. I know. Dave Chappelle, local guy, Yellow Springs, Ohio.

Pistol, you get two picks. Oh, man. What an opportunity. This next one was an athlete that was my number one. I had written his number inside my baseball glove my entire life as long as I played baseball. I modeled myself after him as much as I possibly could as a player. I think he has some of the greatest stories ever. Pete Rose. He's one of the funniest athletes ever. AJ spent a day with him. I happen to know it is Pete Rose. Oh. He, uh,

he's a little controversial here but uh... gambling i'm talking about having a good time we're not talking gambling i'm having a good time at dinner i think pistol's only read part of the things written about him that's just fine that's good sometimes amyerson bliss it's good okay peter's just a fun dinner steve martin pete rose okay so who's your next pick yeah um a legend one of two remaining legends from the most legendary musical group of all time paul McCartney. Yeah.

I love the way he talks. He's got stories that are immense. I've read most of the Beatles' books about how they came up. And it's an amazing story. Paul McCartney. All right. That's pretty good. I love, he seems great.

I heard him on Stern a lot in other places. That carpool karaoke, he was, what a day. James Gordon had with him. That was awesome. That's a good one. Okay, well, I'm going to stay with music because I want to be entertained. And there is a lot of musicians. I actually have a whole column of musicians to pick.

But I'm going to have to go with Dave Matthews. He's got to be here. He's got to have his guitar, much like Eddie Vedder had at my golf outing age in our last draft. But Dave, bring the guitar. And we're going to play a little bit throughout the dinner and maybe afterwards. But he is my third picks, Dave. So I got two Dave, Dave Chappelle, and now Dave Matthews. it's on me for one pick now right no you get two i get two all right what if i don't need to

well i mean you you have to get to mess up the snake draft so you gotta take two give me one i want one pick because sometimes how you guys pick like i a little callback it informs how my next pick so sometimes you trigger other ideas i might not have done it's coming back to me so you're gonna take your third and i'm not scared i'm not scared of you guys that's fine you're just you're giving up a your, your, your, your, uh, fourth round draft pick. Okay. Yeah, because I'm, I'm, I'm being a good teammate because I understand, like, I'm not,

although Paul McCartney did cross my mind earlier. And like Ryan said, like Paul McCartney somehow, I mean, for he's been so famous for so many years. He's still torn. You listen to that guy. Like, he goes on podcast. He goes on things. And he legit seems like a normal dude.

Like he seems like, oh, yeah, I'm just, this is cool. Like, I'm just, he seems like such a nice dude. Like, it's really cool to see that. I don't. So, yeah, dinner, he'd be a great. dinner guest. But my next one, I'm sure it will come with much, you know, anger from you guys. But no, you know, this guy's easy. I think he may have been on my golf foresum list, but none other than the man because I want to laugh. I want to have fun. And I want a guy

that's going to bring on a positive energy, the mayor, Sean Casey. Absolutely. John Casey. This is a dinner. You could easily have dinner with him probably next week. Sean Casey, have you seen how excited that dude is it? That guy is, he wakes up and jumps out of bed and is so excited. There's no way I can slow him down enough to have dinner with that guy. Yeah, you could. I read if you send him a note, you could. Send him to a clip.

Then this is a great. I'm very glad we did this episode of Sean gets this clip. I would love to go to dinner with him. Put it on Twitter. All right, we'll clip this. Sean Casey, which I think this is the most, now, doesn't, nothing against Sean. I just think this is realistic. This could happen.

Some of the ones on my list, probably not, but maybe someday. So you're saying you're just going to forfeit your fourth round pick right now. Yeah, I want to see what you guys have. I'm going to take it later. Okay, so it's going to come back to me. I'm thinking about music. I'm thinking about humor. I'm thinking about learning.

And I know I can wait on this next one, because you guys will not pick that person. So I'm going to, no, I know for sure. I'm going to wait because I think. Hmm, I'm going to go. So I think we've got to bring a combination of great storytelling, humor, quarterback play, leadership. I need all of that. Businessman now building another empire, I got to pick Peyton Manning as my fourth pick. Good, good pick.

So Peyton Manning. Peyton's great on TV, man. Peyton's great to everything he does. He is such a great personality and he's so smart. I watch he and Eli together, too. I think Eli's a great match with him, too. Eli is very under the radar, very fun. Super funny.

Yeah, he's great. I love when Pat has gone on with him on the Manningcast a few times. He's electric on that, too. Okay, Pistol, you get your fourth and fifth pick. Then I get my fifth, and it age somehow because it's fourth and fifth because it's so jacked up. But Pistol, fourth and fifth pick. Fourth pick, I met him briefly when I was seven. 17 years old. It was outside the stadium, outside the players locker room in riverfront stadium

in Cincinnati. No, it is not Johnny Bench or any of those guys. I wanted to be a sportscaster when I was a high school. I said, here am I going to go to college. This guy comes walking out the door who he later went on to greatness beyond being the Reds broadcaster. He went to the Giants. He most notably broadcast the miracle on ice, the Olympic Games. none another, and Al Michaels, great professional and amazing stories for sure. Wow. So you got four old dudes. All right.

We're going to keep it. Is the fifth one going to be another old guy or what? Yes. Yes, it is. All right. Yes, it is. Well, a lifetime of fame and admiration. And the fifth is actually my favorite, who I knew none of you would pick.

So I held on to it. If I had dinner of just one person, I might ask this person to come long. It would be none other than the guy who wrote, was the first act signed by Paul McCartney and John Lennon to their new, their new label, Apple Records over in London. He went on to be a star and continues to sell out stadiums. It's James Taylor. Wow. He's still doing stadiums? He still does. He still does. Wow. So you got Steve Martin, Pete Rose. He's in Europe right now. Just announced this morning has COVID. canceled a couple of shows in Germany, but those.

He's still going strong. Steve Martin, Pete Rose, Paul McCartney, Al Michaels, and James Taylor. That's not. Of old guys. Not a bad dinner of old guys. All right. I like it.

So my fifth, a few of the people that were on my board are still here. And so I'm, I'm debating between two of them. Take two of them. We'll give you them both. I am going to ask. Adam both.

He's a rule breaker. Okay. I'm going to have six at my dinner. The first one is this is in the learning column. This is somebody who I have emailed over a hundred times. There's even a phone number on her website that I've called multiple times and left voicemails because I want her to come on my podcast and I'm certain it will happen at some point. She is a presidential historian.

of the greatest storytellers I've ever seen, wickedly smart, and has written some amazing books. Her name is Doris Kearns Goodwin, and Leadership in Turbulent Times is one of her best books, and I am committed to making that happen. I hope she sees this somehow and actually responds to one of these emails and says yes to come on the show. But Doris Kearns-Goodwin is is pick number five for me and age tells me I get six picks so I'm going to take it. Is that right? Absolutely take it. All right.

My six picked because of probably the stage I'm in as a dad, this is how this person popped up on my list. And their tour just got announced and I want to go and probably take at least one child, maybe more. One of the greatest entertainers in the world, a singer, a songwriter, a performer. I am having Taylor Swift at my birthday dinner. Okay. Thank you for the extra thing. Of course. You are welcome.

It's your show. Thank you. You get 15 if you want. Okay. Now age, your last two. This one's easy. I'm surprised this one wasn't taken earlier. Sometimes this human gets added into people.

people's golf for some they'd love to play with, but Tiger Woods, no question. Got to put Tiger on the list. Tiger, so many. Do you think he'd be an interesting dinner guest, though? It was I thought of Tiger. In this hypothetical thing, in this hypothetical situation that we got all these people together, in my brain, I assume they're all super open, super honest, and have their guards completely down. And there's no, they know, no one's filming, we're all in the nest here, we're going to get the real details of what's going on.

Looking at your list, this would be the weirdest dinner of all time. It doesn't even matter who you pick fifth. This would be the weirdest dinner. Yeah, it does. My fifth pick goes hand in hand. My fifth pick ties them all together. Okay, who's the fifth pick? They'll just have a place setting for Amelia.

You might not even know. You might not even know. Well, I didn't know your last fifth pick because your whole goal was to derail and ruin the draft and you did it. So are you about to do it again? You were about to say something, though. What? I was. You were saying something before I was going to give my fifth pick.

You went through my list. I was getting ready to go through your list to say how weird it is and to see if you're going to add some random Italian painter or whatever. Pierre Manzoni is not coming. He is not on my list because I didn't want to be redundant. I'd already done that here for the listeners. I don't want to do that to them. They've already. They've already Googled and they saw the dude was canon as dumps.

They know like, hey, it happened. It was real. You guys thought I was joking. But my last one and it goes in the theater. Like, you got, we're talking. You want to laugh. You want to have fun. And also this person is very, very.

weirdly intelligent and smart on a lot of different things and fearless at the same time. Not sure if you guys know who this person is, but he's the comedian Tim Dylan. Tim Dylan right now is killing it. And Tim Dylan is super interesting to me and super funny. And I think when you couple him with Tiger Woods, can you imagine Tim Dylan talking to Tiger Woods and Tom Cruise? The questions that guy has, I don't have to say a word. So it's my dream dinner. I don't want to have to speak, but I want to sit there and listen to him.

I want to listen to interesting people answer questions from a guy like Tim Dillon or Sean Casey. If anyone can get somebody to open up, it's Sean Casey. So I think I just, sorry for winning this snake draft, but I had a lot of fun doing it. I thought you were going Pete Davidson. I have to ask, who is, and we had dinner like this in Tahoe this year age, who is the person in charge of the iPad to play the songs that we all sing along to? at this dinner at my table? Of course.

It's got to be Tom, right? I mean, I wanted to even like envision a world where Tom Cruise wouldn't have control of the iPad and I couldn't even bring my brain to do it. Tom is in control. It's not even a question. It's kind of the alpha in the room has the iPad. They have the iPad. They're picking the songs that we're all then, do we, are we supposed to sing along?

Yeah, and even if we hate these songs that Tom plays, there's some underground garbage we've never heard. We're all humming like we do. Of course, Tom. Keep playing the hits, bud. You got it. I do have a great video from when we were there and Connor was just going crazy

for the song, Boston. Which, what a moment. What a moment. That is the draft. Age has Tom Cruise, Amelia Earhart. Sean Casey, Tiger Woods, and Tim Dillon. The most random grouping of humans ever. I got The Rock, Dave Chappelle,

Dave Matthews, Patent, Manning, Doris, Corns, Goodwood, and Taylor Swift, Pistle, Steve Martin, Pete Rose, Paul McCartney, Al Michaels, James Taylor. We'll make a little graph for that. amazing draft. I'd say if we had to rate it, Pistol, for the people listening who are above 55, Pistol will win.

For everybody else, I'll win. So it's good draft. It's all subjective. It's all subjective. There's no winners here. There's no winners. And you know what? I think the real winner is Pistol because his draft's not nearly as terrible as I thought it might be.

I thought he might pick some real guns. I'll take the W. I would love to have dinner at Pistols table. I would too. I think it'd be fun. I think the combo of Steve Martin would make it really funny. Al Michaels would tell the best stories. I've seen him on your show when he wears the cutoff and he smokes a cigar. And he's really, he gets it. He understands what's going on, right? He understands. Paul McCarty playing left-handed guitar. I mean, yeah, that'd be pretty good with James Taylor playing right-hand. I think that could be a pretty good table. So not bad pistol. But I still think he won from the 55 and overcrowd, which is good. It's good.

It's good victory. That's my crowd. Anyway, I know we went long. Thank you guys. Thanks for doing this again. We'll do it again probably at the next hundredth of it, 600. So we might make that sooner than this one because we're going to release more episodes per week.

I've really mapped out how to kind of amp it up a little bit with the show because I think that that's in demand, which is great. And so I want to do more of that. So next time we record, it hopefully won't be as long from these last few since we 200, 300, 400, and now 500. That's pretty wild. That's a lot of years. That's a lot of episodes.

So I thank you guys for doing this. Congratulations on 500, Ryan. It's an amazing accomplishment. And a lot of things have happened in those 500 episodes times. Think about it. I mean, from this started in 20 early, I started recording in 2014. We released it the first one in 2015. That's a lot of life.

That's a lot of stuff was going on. What year did you even retire from the NFL? I guess the 2015 season, 2016 playoffs. Yeah, you were still playing. You were still playing. Last one. Wait, when you started it. You got another month thrown in there with the Falcons in that next year.

That was that year, though, right? No, I thought that was that season. 16 season, I think, was the Falcons. 15 was the Bengals, 14 was the last Packers. Oh, yeah, whatever. It's hard because the Super Bowl is always, you know, like, oh, 2017, but I was there in 16, stuff like that. Yeah. Okay.

Wow. Anyway, thank you guys. We'll obviously be doing it again. And this was awesome. I'm glad I got to win another draft. All right, see you guys. I am very grateful that I get to have these conversations celebrating each 100th episode with my dad and my brother.

I never want to take this for granted how cool this is. And I would urge you that if you're lucky enough to have your parents in your life, to interview them, to record those. conversations, use your phone, use whatever you've got. Video is even better than just audio, but record them, ask them questions about their life, their upbringing, their parents, what it was like for them as they had you and what they try to do as a parent, just how they think about life and parenting and marriage and all that goes with it. You'll be very glad that you have those interviews on tape. So I'd urge you as an action to take that, to do that. To do

that moving forward. I know I'm glad that I have them and grateful and will never take these conversations for granted. Next, I want to say thank you for your continued support and love and spreading the message and telling friends that my show could benefit them. I could have never imagined 500 episodes ago that this is where we'd be. It started as something I did. I did on the side because I was curious and I wanted to learn from people who are far more advanced in the world than me, far wiser than me, far more accomplished than me. And now it's turned into my life's work. This is how I provide for my family. And the thought of when I started this, that this would be where it is is mind-boggling and amazing. I feel so fortunate. But that doesn't

happen without you and your support and you're spreading the message, the most of the most of the powerful form of marketing in the history of the world is word of mouth. And that's what you do for me. You continue to spread the message. You continue to tell a friend or two way. You should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Keith Hawke and AJ Hawk. And special guest, Pat McAfee, if this is your first exposure to Pat McAfee, buckle up your in for a ride. Pat is an electric human who has added a lot of value to my family's life. And I'm super grateful. him and I'm grateful that he showed up today. But thank you again for being here and for continuing to support this work.

I love it. I hope you can tell. I will continue to strive to get better and better and hope to add even more value to your life moving forward. Thanks again. I'm excited for the next one. Talk to soon. Can't wait.