The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 505: Yung Pueblo - How To Let Go of The Past, Connect With The Present, & Expand Your Future (Lighter)

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Text Hawk to 66866 to become part of "Mindful Monday." Join 10's of thousands of other Learning Leaders and receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week of right! Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12    https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Diego Perez is a New York Times bestselling author who is widely known on Instagram and various social media networks through his pen name Yung Pueblo. Online he has an audience of over 2.7 million people. His writing focuses on the power of self-healing, creating healthy relationships, and the wisdom that comes when we truly work on knowing ourselves. His two books, Inward and Clarity & Connection were both instant bestsellers. Diego's third book, Lighter, debuted as a #1 New York Times best seller. Notes: Using a pseudonym - Yung Pueblo means "Young People." The pseudonym reflects a social commentary that points to humanity's coming growth and maturation. The name signals a time when we will collectively transition from being ruled by shortsightedness and self-centeredness to having an elevated appreciation of our interconnectedness, which normalizes treating each other with a new and considerate gentleness. Immigrants – Diego to the United States when he was 4 from Ecuador. His parents' bravery, how much they had to sacrifice, and how hard they worked to give him, his brother, and his little sister a better life in the United States. His mom cleaned houses and his dad worked at a supermarket. "For the first decade and a half, we felt the intense pressure of poverty." "I am less interested in debating and more interested in considering a topic collectively. Let's peacefully share what we know with each other. When we arrive at diverging points of view, let's focus on questions. How did you arrive to this point? Help me understand what you mean." "Saying less is incredibly helpful. Every thought is not valuable. Every feeling does not need to be voiced. What is often best is slowing down to spend time developing a clearer and more informed perspective. Ego rushes and reacts, but peace moves intentionally and gently." "You know you have matured deeply when you encounter someone's rough emotions and instead of letting their volatility consume you, you mentally affirm within yourself "I am not going to join them in their turbulence." "Find a partner who increases your power instead of diminishing it. Complimenting each other's qualities in a way where you make each other shine brighter is an immense gift. You not only lend your strengths to each other, you also keep the spark alive that inspires evolution." Great friends appreciate you and are not afraid of your growth. It's easy to be around them. You root hard for each other to do well and show support when it's not. Create a reflection process for yourself. Write down what you're grateful for… And reflect on the fact that everything is always changing. Reserve judgment. Don't be so quick to make up your mind about something. Instead of judging something or someone, approach them with curiosity and a sense of wonder.

This episode is brought to you by one of my favorites. It is Storyworth. Story worth is an amazing gift for you and your loved ones. Essentially what it is, as you sign up for Storyworth, and they help you supply a loved one with a question a week. So if in my case, I did this with my dad, and Storyworth would send him one question per week and he would answer them and sometimes even add some cool pictures. to make it more visually appealing to go along with his amazing writing.

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go to storyworth.com slash leader. You'll get $10 off your first purchase. That's storyworth.com slash leader. Welcome to The Learning Leader Show, presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text Hawk to 66866 to become. part of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over

the world, will receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right. You'll also receive details about how my book, The Pursuit of Excellence, will help you become a more effective leader. Text, Hawk to 6686. Now on to tonight's featured leader, Diego Perez is a New York Times' bestselling author who is widely known by his pen name Young Pueblo. His writing focuses on the power of self-healing, creating healthy relationships, and the wisdom that comes when we truly work on knowing ourselves. He's a best-selling author of three books called Inward. Clarity and Connection, and its latest is called Lighter. During this conversation, we discuss the qualities that make up

a great friendship, then why we should speak less and listen more, and then how to be more self-reflective and self-aware. This one is wide-ranging and has so much depth. I think you're going to love it. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Diego Perez, better known as Young Pueblo. Diego, it's great to have you here in The Learning Leaders Show. Welcome, ma'am. Thank you, Ryan. I'm excited for our conversation. Also known as Young Pueblo, and that's actually where I wanted to start, because I learned of you first through your pseudonym, and I thought, is that his real name until I dug deeper and learned that it's not? Can you share why you decided to start publishing using the name Young Playblow? For a few reasons.

One, I liked the anonymity. I felt like having a pen name gave me a bit of space in my sort of like ability to just be more vulnerable without having everything attached to my name. But that was in the beginning. And then as things grew and got bigger, the anonymity has helped with, you know, having millions of followers. And people don't know me personally, don't know my face, don't connect my face with, you know, with young Pueblo. So I'm quite grateful for that that I can just. move about the world and you know people don't stop me or anything like that but the name has a lot more meaning young pueblo literally means young people and at first i'd put that name together because

i liked combining my americanness with my ecuadorianness because i was initially born in ecuador um but then as i started meditating i realized that not only am i really immature and i have a lot of growing up to do but the world as a whole seems like uh we're in this sort of transitional phase where we're growing into greater maturity. And yeah. Could you have ever imagined when you started writing under a pen name that it would have become what it has? No, I mean, I hoped to be able to reach people.

But I think in reaching people, I never had like a number or like an idea of how big it would get. And even on Instagram now, I think I have like 2.4 million followers. And I didn't really imagine that being possible. You know, it's hoping for like 100,000 followers. When did you start writing? And when did you, was there like an inflection point or a moment where it went from this anonymous guy who's writing, hoping to impact people, but doing it under a pen name? And then all of a sudden, it usually like the dominoes start and then it just builds and builds and builds like a snowball.

So when did you start and when did that start happening? So I started writing in 2014 and I started, but that early period between 2014 to 2017 was really my time as a writer just cultivating my voice. You know, trying to find the topics that I care about, trying to match it up with what I'm learning about in daily life and trying to just like, you know, figure out if I'm being clear enough with my audience. and it wasn't until, I would say, 2018, when things really took off. And I started seeing, you know, I released my first book and it was in bookstores. Like at first I self-published in 2017 and then re-released the same book with a publisher in late 2018. And it really took off. And it really started doing well.

And all the numbers started growing like my Instagram account and Twitter and whatnot. and I realized that, you know, things were starting to get pretty big. What were you doing to make money in the early stages? Nothing. My wife was taking care of me. So it's a funny story. When I, so I had worked in a number of different jobs, primarily in the nonprofit world. And the last thing that I was doing was some nonprofit consulting.

And when my wife and I moved to New York City, I had this, like, strong, intuitive pull that was just telling me to write, you know, just right, because I was going through my own healing and I had realized that healing was actually possible. You know, I had found out within my own direct experience that the mind is really malleable, that, you know, I didn't have to suffer from anxiety and sadness my whole life, that if I, you know, continued meditating, my, you know, I could find real peace, real calmness. And I think that those results really shocks me. And it kind of inspired me to start writing. But when we sort of landed in New York, my wife, she's a science, you know, she's a,

she majored in biology and she's a scientist. So she was able to find a job, a good job quick. And I sort of gathered my, you know, my courage to just ask her, she would give me time to write. So those first few years, I made, you know, I made nothing until about like 2017. Wow. And you said you had to go through your own healing. What were your issues that you were working through?

I think the brief version is like what I've been realizing is that when I emigrated to the United States with my family, when I was about four years old, we moved to Boston, Massachusetts from Woyaki, Ecuador, where I was born. And the transition was difficult because we went into the situation where we were just experiencing extreme poverty in the United States. It was very hard for my parents to, you know, pay the rent, to get groceries. And it was just a constant struggle that I was seeing on their ends that was affecting their marriage, affecting our household. And, you know, my parents, my dad worked at a supermarket and my mom worked cleaning houses. So we were in a, you know, a pretty strict poverty trap. And seeing the stress that they were going through, it definitely had a big imprint on me. and it sort of just, you know, created these seeds of anxiety, these seeds of sadness, this

sort of scarcity mindset. And as I got older, these things, like, I had no way to process them. You know, I didn't have a therapist or anything like that. And I didn't have anything to really try to engage with my emotions. So my coping had, you know, my coping mechanism just got like more and more unhealthy. And when I got old. older and got into college, you know, I just started partying way too much, started drinking too much, started doing tons of different drugs. And it became the type of situation where I was just pushing my body to the edge. And after I graduated from college about a year after, I had my rock bottom moment where I just used way too many drugs one night and almost ended up losing my life.

And that in that moment, you know, I realized that I had strayed way too far from how I actually wanted to live my life. And I realized that the problem was that I was afraid of engaging with my own emotions. Like I kept lying to myself about the fact that I didn't feel good. So in that moment, I realized that I need to start telling myself the truth. And I also just, I need to find a way to make my mind lighter. Have you seen the documentary called Stutz on Netflix with Jonah Hill and his therapist?

No, not yet. But I've seen people talking about it. So one of the reasons I like Stutz, that's the name of his therapist, is he, regardless of what Jonah tells him, over the years, now, I think he's in the 70s, he has developed these things that he just calls the tools. I think he's written a book even with that same title, where there are these tools that you can use to work through, whatever. I mean, Jonah tragically had his brother die and a lot of other things he had to deal with that were brutal. And Stutz would offer these kind of note. They were literally on note cards and they were tools that he would draw pictures and they would tell them, okay, when you leave here, this is what you're going to do.

So I'm curious from your perspective, Diego, what are some of the tools that you found and that you started using to go from a rock bottom moment to now where you are today? You know, I think that's a great question. And I love that he uses the word tools because that's a word that I like to use too. and I find that the tools that work for me are not necessarily going to work for everyone else. But what I did initially, you know, especially after that moment, was I started practicing radical honesty with myself, right? Not with other people, but with just between me and myself. And that was something that I knew was like one of my struggle points because I was just constantly

lying to myself about, you know, not wanting to admit that I don't feel good, that I have, you know, issues I need to work out. So I would practice being honest with myself, but I would also try to challenge myself to just sit with a tough emotions that would come up. So instead of like rolling another joint or trying to, you know, drink or just do something to get away from my emotions, I was like, okay, my problem was trying to run away from my emotions. So now hopefully the solution is being with my emotions. And that kind of arose intuitively. And I would, you know, I would look like me literally sitting, you know, on my bed and just feeling the anxiety come up and just kind of like hanging on, just like feeling it, like really challenging myself to be with it. And I actually found like a lot of

freedom in that because it wasn't as overwhelming as I initially thought it would be. And but the real tool came later on, came about a year later when I started practicing Kapasana in the Gwanka tradition. And that really just took the healing to a whole deeper level because it was like, Like, you know, a clear practice that has been working for many, many thousands of people over many years. And it fit my mind really well. What is it? It's called Vipasana. It's taught by S. N. Goenka.

There's a lot of different phopasana styles, but it's a meditation that originates from the Buddhist teaching. How does that go when, like a session or when you're doing it? Can you take us inside one of those? I've never done this before. So how does that work? Yeah. One of the, so to be able to learn the technique, especially in this style, you need to go to a silent 10-day meditation course.

It takes that one to be able to learn the technique. What is that like? 10 days of no talking? The first one, especially, I mean, for me, it was really difficult. Like, I felt like I was just, it was like a Herculean effort. And I wanted to run away a ton of times during that because you're just, you're, you're, you're by yourself. So the 10 days, it's split into, you know, a few different sets where, you know, you start, you get there. and you put your phone in a safe and, you know, so you're just like basically cultivating an environment

as if you're totally by yourself. And they started teaching the technique in the first three days you focus on the natural breath and being aware of that natural breath. And for those three days, you know, being aware of that breath helps you calm and concentrate the mind. And then once you hit the middle of day four, they teach the actual vipassana technique, which is observing reality as it is within the framework of the body. And that will introduce you to the truth of change. And you know, you're there and you're meditating for many, many hours a day. And on the 10th day before you leave, that's when you start talking with other people and processing with them and just, you know, getting back to your usual self. But when, you know, when it's over, especially when you go back home and another challenging,

situation happens, you realize that you're not reacting as intensely as you were before. That like there still may be anger there. There still may be anxiety or sadness, but it's not as dense as it used to be. And that's when you're like, oh, wow, this actually worked. I gather the key takeaway learning is life is full of events and circumstances. what you've gotten a lot better at and what you're teaching others to do as well through your writing and through speaking is how we choose to respond. Yeah, exactly. And that then will determine the outcome of that particular event in that moment.

Is that, am I on the right path? Oh, totally. I think it's learning how to respond, especially in like a clear, calm manner where you allow yourself to slow things down because I think that's one of our problems is like we will react with such speed and intensity that we almost feel like we don't even have a chance to decide what we want to do. It's just a reaction that pops up. But in reality, when you start building yourself awareness, you can slow down. And I think that's like one of the key things, like whether you meditate or not, whether you, you know, see a therapist or not. I think like something you can walk away with

is just try slowing down in a difficult moment. Examine yourself. Examine what you want to do versus what would actually be beneficial for you to do in this moment, which could be two very different things. And yeah, I think if we practice slowing down, it can show us in a world of possibilities that we didn't see before. Let's think of the highly stressed senior VP of products. or sales at a Fortune 50 company who has to is in a lot of meetings every day.

They have to make fast decisions. People are coming at them wanting to get on their calendar. So they're time stressed, their decision fatigue. They've got all these things. And they hear this and say, Diego, dude, I can't slow down, man. I got to go, go, go, go. I got to make decisions. And sometimes I mess them up.

And it's just the way it goes, man. And when you hear somebody say that, which I think is very real for people, how do you respond? I think in, you know, every individual, no matter how, like, how hard we work, we do have free time available to us. Like, either before work, after work, or between little moments, you know, while we're working. And I think you want to sort of ask yourself and reframe it. It's not like you're deciding to spend your time in a way that doesn't, you know, is unlike the rest of the way you spend your time, but it's actually an investment. Like you're making an investment in yourself by taking a moment to actually practice, you know, some form of meditation or to see a therapist or do something that's going to alleviate the density of your mind because we don't realize that we're carrying so much conditioning from the past. and this conditioning, it limits our ability to see reality as it is. It limits our creativity.

It limits our energy. It limits our ability to connect, you know, different points so that we can see old problems in new ways. And I think that by far will limit your productivity. So if productivity is something that you care about, you need to realize that you can cultivate your mind to be way more productive while also simultaneously being less stressed about what you're doing. So I think if you're like a high achieving individual, I think about it in terms of investing in yourself and being able to create from a place of peace as opposed to a place of stress. And with anything, like think of meditation as a mental gym, like the same way that you're going to cultivate your body. You need to cultivate qualities in your mind and it's going to take time.

So like when I, you know, I was just in a meditation retreat for at the beginning of this year for 45 days. And what I realized in that time was like, man, I'm, I'm just in a gym. Like, it's just a mental gym. Like, I'm developing the qualities, like the muscle of presence. Like, I'm developing the muscle of awareness, the muscle of equanimity, the muscle of compassion. Like, these are qualities that were in my mind before, but they were just really weak. You have a very calming presence. I think it feels good to be in conversation with you.

I would imagine other people will probably tell you that. Do you work like not as a therapist, but kind of? You know what I mean with people, with leaders? Is this some work that you actually do? No, no, I just, I work with the masses. You know, I'm just a writer. I've refrained from working with individuals and I'm not opposed to it in the future, but right now I've just been focusing on writing and speaking.

And a lot of my time also goes into this venture capital company that myself and Jack Hornfield and Bradley Horowitz and a few other good people have developed that is really focused on scaling compassion. So we're investing in companies that are actively building their products and their platforms with the well-being of the user in mind. Whether their wellness companies or not, they're just creating their platforms in a way that you'll be able to use whatever it is that they're creating without any sort of shady business in the background that's trying to make you, you know, more addicted or whatnot. What do you think of, I know you're on Twitter. I learn a lot from reading your tweets, but actually now working there and hardcore Twitter 2.0,

since you're investing in this scaling of compassion and you see a driver take over as the leader of the business, who is currently working in other companies, Elon Musk, where they're doing great on our way to Mars as well as building great electric cars and then going in and kind of saying the word compassion is not the first word I think of when I think of that. What are your thoughts on that style and what's going on in real life in that company right now? I think it's a I think it's an old style of doing things and I would refrain from judging because I kind of want to see how it plays out. I think that's one thing about you know how we are as a society is like as soon as anything changes or anything is slightly different,

we'll start opining and judging. But it's, I've been learning that it really is helpful to just like take a moment to find out what's going on, to give it time. And I like, I'd like to see what ultimately ends up happening if they build a better product and something that can like serve people and actually protect, you know, people's rights to speak freely. On the other end, though, I think what I'm interested in in terms of, you know, supporting companies that are building their products in a compassionate manner, they're still going to be competitive companies. They're going to be companies that are, you know, still trying to turn a profit.

But the way that they treat their workers, the way that they treat, you know, the people who are their users, like I think coming into it and designing with compassion as, you know, primary mindset. I think that's something that is not only needed, but I think we can actually. actually prove that compassion is good business. Similar to the clothing industry where, you know, a lot of people were sort of fed up by the way the clothes were made by fast fashion and whatnot. So all of these different brands have popped up that have, you know, that are not only selling you good clothes, but they're telling you about the process and that they're telling you that this process is done in a much more compassionate manner. And people are attracted to that. I think that same sort of mentality is going to be adopted in tech.

And it's not going to like take over tech, but it'll become a part of it. What are some good examples of a company or two who understands that compassion is good business and they're doing this right now? There's one company called, Oh, yeah, that I really love and that we actually invested in. And they're, you know, actively trying to create a wide set of tools for, mental well-being and it's supported by it's called oh yeah oh y-e it's a word in spanish that means like it like calls you to attention and it was set up by j balvin who's a famous musician and in latin america and he um you know went through his own sort of mental health struggles and realized the importance of this so i'm pretty

excited about this company coming out and there are a few others like peoplehood where they're trying to help people connect with each other to learn how to actually communicate with each other even with strangers and a few others that you know i think are just like going to be the next wave of companies i really like how you answered that question about twitter because it would have been easy i feel like for you almost a lay up to say to shift immediately into being judgmental and sharing kind of negatives about it. And I think what you, what you proved is, there's like, I think, I think like judgment and curiosity

are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Yeah. And I find I'm really attracted to people who are on this end. This is the curiosity end of that spectrum. No matter what it is to say, to maybe ask, I wonder what's going on. I wonder why they're like that. I wonder what will happen.

I'm going to reserve judgment and wait and, and pause and not go as fast and immediate, which is the opposite, Diego, I think, of how people are today. There is immediate judgment, immediate negativity at times about everything versus how you responded to say, I'm curious. I want to see what happens. I really want to see how it plays out. It's honestly, and I watch it closely. It's not like, I'm, you know. So on a grander scheme, know like that philosophy can you share more about that kind of view of the world and how you approach people places and things as opposed to immediately judging them and going and shifting to the the curiosity mode instead yeah i think it's um you know one thing i noticed about the human

tendency tendency is just that we move from extreme to extreme and we are such social beings that the moment that we're not part of the pack, we get super scared. So you find that happening all the time in social media. And I've been, you know, as social media has become more and more expansive in the way that it's sort of encircled itself and combined itself with the news cycle, you find that there are so many times where people are just like, you know, some situation will happen. All the facts won't be there, but people are already just opine. judging, making up their viewpoint, and sort of pulling at the data to be able to construct their narrative and not really getting the whole picture. And I find that to be a pretty, like, dangerous way to live because our opinions have repercussions. Like, our opinions can sometimes,

like, affect foreign policy or, you know, even when we don't even know the whole story. So one story that I wanted to tell you was, so when I came out of this 45-day retreat, right, it was between January to February. So I come out at the very end of February. And I, you know, haven't been online. I gave my account to my wife's sister so that she, you know, and I kind of lined everything out for her so that she can keep posting for me. But I, you know, come back in.

I write on Twitter and I'm like, oh, just, you know, just got out of a 45-day course. And so many people write underneath. if they're like, do not check the news. Like, it's going to ruin your peace. And, you know, and that's when the war between Russia and Ukraine broke out. And it all happened while I was away. Like, I had, you know, no, no conception of it because I was just, you know, like I wasn't connected to the internet or didn't have my phone.

And so I come out, this war is happening. And I see people like posting aggressively about it. You know, people are like, you know, go Ukraine or not or stop, whatever. You know, they're just having so many different opinions. And I'm just like, whoa, whoa. Like I don't even know what's going on. I literally feel the social pressure of like, why aren't you supporting Ukraine? But it's like, dude, I'm not just going to put something up there when I don't even know what's going on.

Like I literally don't know what's going on. So I'm just going to slow down and I'm going to do my best to find as many different articles as possible to try to build. and ask friends specifically friends in my life who are more right leaning friends who are more left leaning to just tell me what they think to try to build a map for myself of what's going on but that alone can take like a week and a half you know just like researching hard um but it was funny how like people will you know like the ego has this this um this tendency of like my ego really likes when other people have the same views, the same opinions, and basically see the world the same way that I do. And we all kind of have that quality where we just love when our egos are,

we see them multiplied. That reminds me of one of your tweets I pulled in preparation. You wrote, saying less is incredibly helpful. Every thought is not valuable. Every feeling does not need to be voiced what is often best is slowing down to spend time developing a clearer and more informed perspective ego rushes and reacts but peace moves intentionally and gently it seems like that you're you're living that out in that moment yeah yeah and that's then and that's sort of been one of the big lessons um of this year for me personally is just seeing that like you know i think i'm better off like 20% less in my in my daily life you know like in my regular life where it's probably all would yeah yeah like these thoughts are not like high quality thoughts all the time like you know it takes

time to be able to to really like figure out within yourself like what am i really feeling like do i really need to say this right now to my brother or my sister or my wife or my mom and dad and like find out like what are what are my motivations like why why do i even want to say this um so I think slowing down for me has actually made the moments that I share with other people way more intentional and way more full of presence because it's sort of challenging me to be a little more selfless in my listening where I'm not just thinking about what I'm going to say next. I'm really trying to see like where you're coming from. And I find my dad has modeled this for our family for a long time where at usually at

extended family gatherings, he listens and pays close attention, but doesn't speak up that much. But when he does, every single person in that room is paying attention. You know what I'm saying? So it provides and creates so much more weight for your words if you don't feel the urge to speak up during every single topic or be the next one to talk every single time. This happens in the business world all the time as well, where people have to get their opinion out there. When there are times when it's better left just to not say anything and wait until you really have something to say and when you do, the likelihood of people listening goes way up. Yeah, yeah, I really, really agree.

I've even been noticing within myself, like, you know, when I do, when I release a book, I'll go through these periods where I'm supporting the launch of the book and I'll do number of podcasts, number of interviews. And I find it so helpful for the period after that where I'm doing no interviews, no podcasts, and will intentionally be like, you know, I need to just stop so that I can allow my mind to make different connections. Because if not, I'm just going to be sort of repeating things in a similar way. And I won't allow the story to evolve and to continue growing organically. And I find it, I don't know, not only rejuvenating, but also just like it helps me with my own creativity with like saying my story and the points that I'm trying to make. You write a lot about relationships and about friendships.

I'm curious in your own personal life. What to you makes a great friend? Oh, that's a great question. I think it's a combination of someone who, like, you know, you have that intuitive connection with, but they also have the quality of being able to appreciate you enough and vice versa, appreciate you enough that they are not afraid of you growing and changing. Like, I have one friend that my friend Lennon, who he, we met in, the fourth grade. And we've been friends, you know, for, Jesus, it's wild even saying it for like

25 years. Like it sounds, you know, we just, and we just spent like myself, my, my wife, him and his daughter, we just spent like five days together. And, you know, sharing the Thanksgiving break and and after that was also my birthday. And, and it's amazing how like, how low pressure this relationship is. I think it's because it's so low pressure and so not demanding. It's just like it's easy for us to be around each other. And it's easy for us to like, you know, just like go through these movements of change where at first it was always just the two of us hanging out. But now it's like us with his daughter and my wife. And, you know, it's it's the dynamic has changed, but the love is still there.

And it still has qualities of the past of how we used to be when, you know, when we were just trying to have fun and make. jokes, but now it's like we're sharing life together and we're like this, um, this like chosen family. So I think it's like the quality to, to grow as an individual and simultaneously appreciate another person's growth. I love it. That also happens in a marriage. And you've mentioned your wife multiple times and how she essentially supported you at the beginning of you Oh yeah. She's the boss. Yeah. A writer. So, but, but you guys have had to have gone through dramatic change because she goes from being the sole provider where you're because I could see honestly like people judging you guys and making fun of what is Diego doing he just sits in his room

and writes under a fake name I mean you know what I'm saying like that what happens yeah you go from that though where people probably made fun of you guys to now where you're this yeah famous writer philosopher who's helping people all over the world you're on national TV everywhere right followed by millions of people. How did that impact your relationship, your marriage? It's interesting. It's, you know, I feel like my wife and I have had like two relationships. Like there was a time where, you know, we just, we just loved each other.

And it's like, we met really young. She was 18 and I was 19. And we met in college. And we've been together for a little over 15 years. We've been married for seven years. and but that first half you know the first sort of six years of our relationship were extremely chaotic um we we didn't know ourselves as individuals we didn't know how to communicate properly with each other we were constantly blaming each other trying to win arguments sharing all of our tension with

each other even if it was illogical and it was it really felt like being in a hurricane um and And it wasn't until after we both started meditating and we both meditate in the same vipassana tradition that slowly our emotional maturity started growing between the two of us. Like slowly we started developing self-awareness. And slowly we started realizing that, oh, wait, the problem isn't you. It's actually the way that I'm reacting to this situation. It's the way that this narrative is being formed in my mind. And sometimes granted, I'll say something that I should apologize.

for. She'll say something she should apologize for. But I would say like 90% of the time, it's like, dude, I'm just like, you know, my mind is trying to make a problem that isn't even really there. And she found the same thing within herself. It's like, well, my mind is, you know, is too hot right now. And it's looking for trouble. And once we started becoming aware of these moments, we started voicing them to each other. We were like, hey, like, you know, this is happening. You know, I don't feel good right now. I want to be aware of that and I'm trying to let you be aware of that too and we would you know share with each other where we are in our emotional spectrum so that we are just like a little more cautious and gentle with each other so that we don't like I don't know accidentally fall

into any traps where we started argument that shouldn't even be happening um but my I think the the beautiful thing about our relationship was that um she she did have a lot of trust in me to give me those, those like two and a half years where, you know, I really, I didn't make any money and she was able to support us. And then now, you know, the bet worked out because the reason that I told her, I was like, hey, I'm going to try doing this writing thing. And if it doesn't work out, I'm going to become a high school history teacher. That was like my plan was like, you know, if this doesn't work out, then I've, you know, been really positively impacted by a number of history teachers, so I'd like to, you know, pass it forward.

And I think she liked that I had a plan. And so she was like, all right, let's, let's roll the dice and see what happens. Wow. That's a pretty incredible story. You wrote a post that's titled 11 Unforgettable Truths, 2020 taught me. And one of them is people pleasing gives away your power. Can you unpack that and share more about this idea of people pleasing and why it gives away your power? Yeah, I think that's a big one.

I feel like it's common for us to try to support peaceful situations by just doing what we can to please the people around us. But in a lot of ways, if you let that become one of your major patterns, then you're just going to end up never doing the things that your like self-love really wants you to do for yourself like self-love um it's going to require you to like put a lot of time into developing the qualities that you currently don't already have um so i'm talking about self-love in a sense like not a commercial sense like not like you buying yourself things but you examining yourself and taking the time to really see you know in what ways can i cultivate my mind in what ways can i heal myself and if you're just just focus on people pleasing, constantly externalizing, constantly doing what other people want to view,

that you just won't have time to do the nourishing activities that are going to help you. What's the difference between people pleasing and serving others, caring for other people, doing what you can to add value to their lives? Oh yeah, they're very different things. So like people pleasing, I think, goes to an extreme where you're not just serving people, but you're doing the things that people sort of expect of you or want of you or, you know, will either get upset if you don't do them. Whereas serving other people, it's like coming from a place of goodwill.

It's coming from a place like intuitively where like you see someone who needs help and you know within yourself like, oh, this is the right thing. I want to help them. And I think being able to balance that right where you want to be able to give to others, but not in a way where you're going to totally exhaust yourself and not do the things that are good for you. Because this is what we mentioned earlier too, where humans often sway from extreme to extreme. And obviously, service is a very good thing, but if you're taking it to a point where you're absolutely depleted, then you're missing the point. I've learned that having a writing practice is one of the most clarifying,

tools anybody can have. It certainly is for me. And get pushback from the busy crowd of don't have time for this man. You do. You write books and stuff and you got to prepare for speeches, but I don't have time for that. And I say, well, that's like telling me you don't have time to learn. Because I found that the best way to get very clear and to learn and to figure out what I actually think and what do I know is from getting the words out of my head onto the page, whether I'm writing or typing. And you're writing all the time. So I would imagine that this has to be really big for you. How does writing help you learn? That's a great question. I feel like writing to me is like putting together a puzzle. And it's not really done until it feels like you put in the piece and it's like,

okay, it's there. And one thing that I found is like, you know, I'll write about different topics over a long series of years. And I find that each time I write about them, if I'll go back and, like, you know, write about letting go again, what does it really mean? What does it look like? How does it feel that the next time I write about it, I take like one tiny step forward into a new space and it could be a small step but it feels so victorious because it's like oh like my thought around this is actually growing and developing and it can take years and i feel like um writing like you said it not only shows me what i've been learning but it's almost like helping me um discover a new world that wasn't already there the reflection process is something again

that is just skipped over by, I think, too many people when I work with leaders and ask about, well, what's your process for reflection? What's your process for, or even get tactical and say like an after action review on how you performed or what you did, whether it's business or otherwise. Let's, let's again think about a tool or tools for someone who currently, when they look in the mirror, realize, I don't really do that much. I don't reflect. I don't really have any sort of reflection.

Yeah, I think about stuff every once in a while, but for the most part, I just kind of move forward. I just go on to the next thing because, again, I'm busy and I have a lot going on. What's a tool or some tools people could use to create and have a better reflection process for themselves? That's a great question. I think there's two simple ones that I tried to abide by as well each day. and one is like literally taking a moment to just think about something that you're grateful for because that's automatically you're reflecting there. The other part is doing your best to take a moment similarly like you're doing so for gratitude,

but to just reflect on the fact that everything's changing. And I think that's really powerful. It's something that we're constantly forgetting similar to what you were saying about, self-awareness that a lot of people think that they're self-aware but they're actually not. I think similarly, a lot of people think that they're embracing change, but they are not. Like, it changes, I think, one of the biggest points of conflict in our mind. And if we're able to develop a new relationship with change and develop a sense of appreciating it, I think it'll release a lot of attention.

And I think if you're able to take a moment to reflect on that, you'll see like where You're not appreciating change, and I think that could be pretty helpful for individuals. What about for skeptics? There has to be lots of them in this world. Oh, young Puebo, that's the woo-woo stuff. Yeah, I don't have time for that. I don't know about that stuff, man. You got to hear that.

I'm sure you do. I know I hear that. What is your response to skeptics? Oh, I wish them well. Is it the Seth going like it's just not for you? Or do you say, no, I hope you change your mind or I hope you come along or like, how do you view that? I think, yeah, that's a really good question. I feel like with any form of art, any form of, you know, anything that anyone may make,

whether it's music or food or art, like there are going to be some people who really appreciate what you created. And then there are going to be other people who just don't like it and don't get it. And that's, that's fine. That's totally fine. So to me, it's like if someone doesn't like what I'm talking about, that's great. Like, I wish you the best and, you know, I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for. Does that ever upset you or do you ever, do you ever get put a chip on your shoulder and it motivate you? Um, no, it doesn't, it doesn't upset me and I definitely don't try to let it motivate me. I try to, um, write what feels pretty genuine to me and what I feel like is important for people who are on their personal transformation journey or who

are trying to improve their relationships. But other than that, like, you know, I know that I can't hit 100%. Literally the best that you can do, the best, like even on Amazon, right, when you like get your ratings, the best that you could do is get a 4.9. You're not going to get a 5. Like, it's impossible to get a 5. So to me, it's like if I'm, if I'm doing well and serving the audience, that comes organically to me, then that's all I can really do. And I think for people who are skeptical, you know, I think it's actually great because the same reason that I really feel like it's important to understand that what's valuable to me and what has really helped me, which has been meditation in my personal life, in my own

mind, that's not necessarily going to help everyone. So I think it's fine. If you, you know, if you need different forms of therapy or different forms of meditation or you know, a form of journaling or, you know, something that will help you be a better version of yourself. Like that's what matters to me is like, you know, take a few steps forward in this lifetime in becoming a better version of yourself, like someone that's more compassionate, more loving to themselves and other people, you know, more creative. And that's, that's as much as you can ask for from an individual. I had a friend of my name Todd Henry, he's been on the show a few times,

an amazing writer and thinker and speaker and Todd uses great analogy when it comes to motivation. He said there are clean and dirty fuels and the dirty fuel is the kind of F the haters type, chip on your shoulder. I'm going to show them. Watch me. That doesn't burn clean because sometimes it works as fuel, but it doesn't work for long. It's not sustainable versus the clean, cleaner one is is being motivated one intrinsically as well as by the people who support you who believe in you who you you're excited to serve and it feels to me like you're burning a lot of clean fuel as you as you produce work yeah thank you i i've learned over time that it's not that valuable to read the comments and it's not that valuable to read the reviews it's i think what's a bigger

representation of, you know, if you're actually being clear, if you're actually helping people are like the random emails that you get about like, you know, oh, like this really helped me through my divorce or, oh, this has really helped me, you know, spring up a new relationship, or this has helped me with the passing of a friend or something like that. And that, those like small signals combine with whomever you meet, like at your, you know, events you may have, like book events and whatnot or the actual book sales. It's like, you know, that'll give you a clear picture because I think sometimes when people like I totally feel like it's fine to be able to say, oh, like this work isn't for me. Like this, I don't like this. That's totally natural,

normal and beautiful. The other end is like someone hating your work. Someone like getting energized by how much they don't like your work. Like then there's some like psychological issue there. Like something's going on with this person and they need help. Like if you're like feeling so vehemently against something that it gives you, you know, it's like riling you up into just all this tension and agitation. Like that's very different from just being like, oh, this is, this isn't for me. So I, you know, to listen to people who are like really hating hard, it's like, you know, you don't, you don't want to feed that for yourself or for them.

I would imagine you get bombarded with people sending you. emails, DMs, in person events, who, let's say, Diego, they're a little bit earlier in their career and they're not fully sure what they want to do, but they do want to do good. They want to leave a positive dent in the world, right? They want to make a difference. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice you give to that person? I think the primary advice, I think above all other is consistency and continuity. Like you got to keep going. Like even what you just said, man, you made like, you know, 500 or so episodes.

Like that's what got you here. You know, like I've written tons and tons and tons of things. Like that's what's gotten me here. And I've had these, you know, sort of interesting moments while I was emerging as a writer, you know, on Instagram. I saw a lot of other writers who I thought had incredible talent. Like I'm talking really, really special talent. And at some point,

they just stop. Like, they just stop. Like, you know, they hit 70,000 followers or whatever. And they just, like,

they just stopped producing for whatever reason. And I've seen it happen a number of times of, like, really high quality people. And I don't feel like I necessarily write better than them. I just kept going. Like, I just didn't stop.

But what I do find is that, you know, like now I'm getting to a point where I'm like, like I feel okay at this rating thing, but I feel like I could really get better at it. Like I can just now can get better at it because I've developed enough experience. So it's really about you guys just got to keep going. Yeah, Mayor Eric Adams told me, I'm not going to win or beat you with brilliance, but I will with endurance. I really, I identify. with that. I'm like, yeah, it's not going to be that brilliant, but over time, the consistency will

continually increase the quality and the value it brings, and I'm going to get better. I'm committed to that, and I think people understand that, and that's obviously your work. Speaking of that, though, you hit the New York Times bestseller list, you get millions of followers. How does that make you feel about the next book or the next thing that you publish? because when you've had this past, I guess you just called a outworthy success, meaning outside of yourself, because all you can focus on is the work. You can't really focus. You try to sell the book and you do everything you can, but you can't focus on too much of

that stuff. But how does it make you think about the next one and living up to the things that you've accomplished in the past? It honestly, it doesn't stress me out. more so inspires me on a personal level. Like the first book that I wrote was called Inword and it was a very slim, minimalistic poetry and prose book. And after writing, like that, writing that book felt so hard.

It felt so difficult. And then I did Clarity in Connection, which was also a poetry and prose book. But after I wrote Inword, I was like, okay, I know how to do this now. Like I know the structure. And I was like, now let me do it better. And I have a similar feeling with lighter. Like I just released lighter. And lighter is just like the most potent book that I've produced.

It has everything that I think is important about personal transformation, about relationships, about, you know, healing, self-love. I just go deep into it in a way I have it in my other books. But now I know what it's like to write a nonfiction book. And when I go to write my next one, it's like, okay, like, I know where I struggled. I know where I did well. now I know how to like, you know, set up my year better so that I can spend quality time writing. I know how to like, you know, work better with my editor so that we can get the best out of this book. So to me, it feels like I'm fortunate that I have access to a really wide audience because I know there are people who would be very interested in my next book.

And I guess the rest is up to me is to make something quality enough, something that they find useful enough, that they'll not only benefit from it and read it, but they'll want to share it with friends and with family. It's really impressive, man. Your consistency and ability to keep going is now produced amazing work. The most recent book's called Lighter. Let go of the past.

Connect with the present. Expand the future. Beautiful cover art too, man, and the inside's even better. So huge props on that, Diego. And thank you so much for being here today. and I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress, man. Oh, I would love it too, man. Ryan, this has been great.

Such a, like, organic, real conversation. I really appreciate it. Awesome, man. Appreciate it. Thanks, man. I really enjoyed that conversation. It's a bit of a departure for me since I'm usually pretty hard charging on tactics and actions to take and push my guests towards coming up

with those. And I did on this one as well, and he gave some great ideas on being more reflective to gain self-awareness. But I like that it was philosophically based because it's different. And I think it's good for all of us to think about having conversations with people that make us think a little bit differently about life. And that certainly was this one. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. A few takeaways from my notes. Great friends appreciate you and are afraid of your growth. It's easy to be around them. And these friends root, you root hard for each other and celebrate when things go well for one another, but you also are there to support them. But I thought that part about growth, it was really important because I found in the

best friendships, you both are actively focused on growth and celebrate that in one another. And then create a reflection process for yourself, write down what you're grateful for, and reflect on the fact that everything is always changing, and that's okay. That's good, in fact. We should be embracing that. Then the conversation around reserving judgment, don't be so quick to make up your mind about something. Instead of judging someone or something, approach it with curiosity and a sense of wonder

and ask questions and hold off on being so. quick to make up your mind. I think I liked this part of the conversation with Diego and thought it was useful. Again, I hope you did as well. I would love it if you would spread the message, tell a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Diego Perez, also known as Young Pueblo. I think he'll help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that and you continue to write reviews and rate the show, hopefully five stars on Apple Podcasts, you are giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful.

Thank you so, so much. Talk of you soon. Can we.