The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 535: Geron Stokes - How To Gain Clarity, Maximize People, and Live Your Purpose

Episode Date: July 9, 2023

Text Hawk to 66866 to become part of "Mindful Monday." Join 10's of thousands of your fellow learning leaders and receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right... Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12   https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Own it, live it, create it, see it, say it, change it, honor it, punish it, repeat it, evaluate it all. – The core components to building a world-class culture. Who are your foxhole people? They are the ones who are there when it's hard and they're there to celebrate when it's great. They are honest, caring, and they love you. The best way to build a great foxhole group? Be a loving, caring, and honest friend to others. How to build a great foundation which sets you up to build a great culture? Be trustworthy and trust-WILLING person. Be vulnerable, open, and honest, and create opportunities for shared suffering. It takes time and intentional effort, but it's worth it. Geron was always leading the younger quarterbacks when he was in high school. "The quarterbacks stay. You need to know what's going on, for now, and in the future" Coach Dave Carroll had a huge impact on how Geron coaches... Tough, demanding, high expectations. He wasn't for everyone. From Brook Cupps: "From my perspective, it's been really cool to watch his progression from a self-serving arrogant kid to an ultra-impactful leader and father." Geron's purpose is to maximize people. Here is how he lives that out... Own It – Come to grips with my #1 Job - Get the most out of people. More than they can ever imagine. It HAS to be a love thing! Can I get them to work, care, execute, serve, give, and love more than they ever have in their life? My job. Not their's. Wake up every day knowing my responsibility. "I've gotta get the best out of these guys today." Live It – I set the example for everything. I AM THE STANDARD! Have to be. Am I trying to maximize myself? Every. Day! How do I show up? Do I represent the values I'm trying to pull out of the people? They aren't going to do it by themselves. They can't. Stop expecting them to! I need to show them to engage them. Am I pouring my heart and soul into everything that I can?!? "The best thing you can ever give someone is a strong example," "Preach the gospel every day, and sometimes use words." Create It - Environment matters. Cultivate relationships every single day. Do they walk in knowing we're getting better today? Energy. Enthusiasm. Struggle. Hard, Tough. Work. Demanding. Constant. Growth. Whatever level you're at. Just. Get. Better. EVERY. DAY! My relationships, time, & effort with my people is the soil! Maniacal about who, what, and how. Everybody! All the time. Daily requirement: get the environment ready for growth! See It - See it as it is. See it better than it is. If I can't see it better, how do I make it better? Reality to vision. The best see it at a different level. Extremely high standards! Competence matters. What is an acceptable standard? Can it be done better? Say It – Any and all feedback. Do I care enough to tell them? Usually with questions! Intent matters. Relationships matter. Make it personal! It doesn't have to be said exactly the right way. IT NEEDS TO BE SAID. They have to HEAR it & internalize it. "Good job" doesn't exist in our world. Change It – It must improve. Whatever it takes. Fix/correct/punish/measure until it actually changes. Spend extra time. Refuse to accept excuses. I love you so we have to make this better. Continue saying it! Honor/Punish It – Celebrate. Loudly. Be specific. Recognize it. Measure it. Reward it. Make it a big deal. Every important detail. Ingrain it into the culture of the group. "That's not how we do things here." Repeat It – Do it over and over and over and over again. The hardest part isn't doing it. The hardest part is doing it every single moment, every single day, over and over and over.  Evaluate It All – What is working? What isn't? How do we keep getting better? What needs to be changed? CONSTANT. 24/7365. ARE WE GETTING THEIR BEST? Fanatical about improvement. Daily Questions To Ask Yourself: Am I at my best? Are my intentions right? How can I get the most out of everybody today? I need to be on fire. Energy/Attitude is right. Seeking ways to make an impact. Is it about me or about them? Act your way into feelings. What do they need? Pushed? Pulled? Energized? Inspired? Demanded?

I would rather pour my heart and soul into people feeling like I'm doing it the right way than compromise and know you're letting people off the hook and you may not get their best. And kids are going to look back and say, why didn't he push me? Why didn't he tell me that? Why didn't he challenge me to be better? I'm not going to do that. I'd rather get out of coaching than compromise on what I see a lot of people compromise on. Welcome to The Learning Leaders Show presented by Insight Global. your host, Ryan Hawk.

Thank you so much for being here. Text, Hawk to 666866 to become part of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world, will receive a carefully curated email for me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right. You'll also receive details about how I book The Pursuit of Excellence will help you become a more effective leader. text, Hawk to 666866. Now on tonight's feature leader, this is a treat. Garin Stokes is the head football coach at Dublin Coughman High School. Throughout the course of this career, he's won two state championships and has led his team to many wins. However, that's not how Garin measures

success in his life or with his team. He is solely focused on his purpose, which is maximizing people. Now, I asked Garen to speak at my 2023 Learning Leader Growth Summit in Columbus, Ohio. He said yes, and then he proceeded to absolutely kill it. I love Garen's energy, his passion, and I think most importantly, his clarity of purpose. I think you will too. During this conversation, we discussed the daily questions Garen asked himself each day as he's going to work and the benefit of creating these prompts for you. Then he shares the nine components of building a world-class culture.

And we covered how we all can gain more clarity on our purpose and the impact we will have on others' lives. Ladies and gentlemen, this one is so good. It's the great Garen Stokes. All right, Garon, it's so great to have you here on The Learning Leaders Show. Welcome, man.

Appreciate you having me. It's going to be hard to take you serious because I love you so much, dude. But all right, let's go do it. I learned in my research for this that you had a really impactful high school coach in your life, a guy named Dave Carroll. And I've spoken so much about impactful coaches in my life.

So I get pretty excited to hear when others have a shared experience. What type of impact did coach Dave Carroll have on you? And what did you learn from him? Probably other than my direct family, he probably changed the trajectory of my life more than anybody. I wasn't a discipline, tough, hardworking. I thought I was, but I had no clue. And coach pushed, challenged, supported, had my back,

gave me an opportunity to coach once I was done, completely changed the trajectory of my life. I have no idea where I would be if I did not play in a good football program led by a guy like Coach Carroll. It's really scary to think about. What's he like as a guy? I remember I can detail the smallest things about Coach Gregg and Coach Rollery about how they took notes and how they watched practice and how they had one-on-one conference. All those little things. What's he like as a guy and as a coach?

Intense. Demanding. Has higher standards than anybody he's around always. He gets a bad label sometimes because they're so demanding. They're hard. Now you get accused of bullying or you're intolerant or too masculine. These are the people that changed the trajectory of all. of our guys, like all of the guys in my grade, all of the guys below me that he coached,

there's a handful of us that are coaches, teachers, because of him. And just passionate, one of the hardest workers I've ever been around, not afraid of conflict, willing to challenge anything and everything all the time. And really had no fear of doing it. And when you get that, they're line pushers, right? There are people that will push you to the line and sometimes above it. And with that, you make mistakes and he had a terrible ending to his career, but that all of us that do our work know that that's a possibility because at some point, some people don't really want to be challenged. He challenges. What happened? He got fired. Why? He got fired because he was too much. He pushed too hard. Demanded too much. It's just what the resistant type people say about the challengers in our world. It's just too hard. And not everybody wants that.

I remember the days, and I know I played a thousand years ago, but Coach Greg would take the water off the field. If we were playing bad in practice, the water was gone. And it would just be gone for the rest of practice. So you'd get water when it was over, and that might be two and a half hours. And it would be August, full pads. And now you probably would get fired for taking the water off the field, right? That's something you can't do. But it was a very normal occurrence, or we'd start over back to period one, whatever it may be, and have the water be gone.

And I don't ever recall a parent complaining or if a kid, kids quit. Sometimes they quit. But for the most part, that's why we won, I think, is because of we were just tougher than everybody. We definitely weren't more talented than everybody. Do you think you can still coach like that? I mean, I feel like you do. But how does that work today?

I think it's harder on the guys that get later on in their careers because they get a label of the game has passed them by. It hasn't. People just use that as an excuse to label them. You can still coach that way. You can't do crazy stuff like take water off the field or like challenge people's concussions or you can't do crazy stuff. You have to still love the crap out of people. That is where all the driving force comes from.

But kids still want that. Our guys still want to be pushed. They walk around with a chip on their shoulder, their chest out a little bit higher because they're capable of doing hard things. They feel like they're outworking people. And people still pride themselves on that. There's still an edge there to be had. It seems like the harder way to do it, though, as a coach, because it's easier to be what they call a player's coach or just to have fun with the guys, to push them every once in a while. But for the most part, you know, be kind of a guy's guy.

And I don't sense you're that way. So it's almost as a coach you choose the harder path. Yeah. And you know the end is coming at some point. You know that. At some point, this isn't going to be for every part. And that's okay. You're willing. I'm willing. I know that. When coach got fired, I sent him a text say, hey, that's going to happen to anybody and everybody that challenges. That's just what's going to happen. And I would rather pour my heart and soul into people feeling like I'm doing it the right way than compromise and know you're letting people off the hook and you may not get their best. And kids are going to look back and say, why didn't he push me? Why didn't he tell me that? Why didn't he challenge me to be better? I'm not going to do that. I'd rather get out of coaching, then compromise on what I see a lot of people compromise on.

I know you don't have a ton of experience off the football field and in the corporate America. And that is a big part of who I work with. I believe it translates. There are certain things that don't. But I think for the most part, you can push. We can have very high expectations. We can strive to be excellent in everything we do each day and then lift our teammates up.

But I'm sure you get criticized from time to time when you do give speeches. or talk to those off the field to adults, Fortune 500 companies, whatever it may be. How would you translate your mentality to that place? I know I'm asking you a kind of a hypothetical, but how would you translate it to people who are not playing sports? I don't think it changes at all in my simple mind. Do you love people? Can you pour into people?

Can you challenge, drive, inspire, push, pull with the right intentions? but can you do that and see if you can get people to actually become a little bit better? Not sales and marketing, but as people, man, can you show up to the office better than you were yesterday? And I think that's the ultimate quest. Do you sense that that is normal or not? I have no idea. I'm so oblivious to the rest of the world. What I do, I feel, is normal because that's the lens I see the world through.

But I honestly have no idea what businesses, or other coaches do or I feel like it should be, right? What's our purpose in life is to make it a little bit better? If you're interacting with somebody, I do it as a dad, I do it as a husband. Can we make it a little bit better every single day? I learned that you had a close relationship with your grandpa, your dad's dad, and I believe you passed away when you were in college when you were playing football. What did you learn from him?

How did he impact your life? This is the evolution of the Stokes family here now. Gosh. Grandpa Stokes. He didn't graduate high school, man. He went to high school in the fall for four years for one reason to play football, right? And he was a bad habit having just a rugged, tough, disgruntled human being. But he had an absolutely huge heart.

He loved people. And he called me over in my senior high school and said, hey, Garon, this is just what grandpa did. Hey, Garen, I'll give you $100 for every playoff win you get in high school. He wanted us to win a state championship. He saw how hard we worked and how good we were. He wanted us to win a state championship more than anybody. And he didn't really have much.

He was a low-income, just a tough, rugged old-school dude. He was my guy. He would be super proud of my dad and the evolution of our family, how much we've grown. I heard a story about how you were a leader as a player. One of your former teammates, our mutual friend, Eli Liker, he said you wouldn't remember this because this is just the way you were, but he remembers it because he was. was a freshman. And I think you were a junior. And when you were in the playoffs, the coach gave the freshman the option to leave practice early once you made the playoffs because it was getting

dark. And he also said he didn't want the freshman get in the way. Eli said, I vividly remember Garron walking over to me and saying, hey, the quarterback stay. You need to know what's going on now, for now and for the future. And just this kind of this direct to the point, the quarterback stay. And I love that. I think that's just a true form of lifting your teammates up. When he was a freshman, you could have been like, screw him, I'm focusing on myself. I'm getting myself ready for this playoff game. The freshman doesn't matter. And yet you walked over and it obviously left a lasting impression on his life because he still remembered this story to this day. Do you remember that story and you being a leader as a player with your teammates? I do not. But I'll tell you this.

I've always, and I don't know where I got it from. My dad, my wife and I don't know. I don't I talk about this a lot. I don't know where I got it from. I've always had this really easy ability to just be direct and say what's on my mind. And that's been a really good thing at times and it's been a really bad thing at times. And I just feel like as the leader, if you can't say what's on your mind, even when you're wrong, I feel I told Brooke when I was an assistant for him, hey, I'm going to say it a thousand times. I'm going to tell you everything I think, every time I see something, I'm going to tell you. And then it's your decision, your choice to say whether it's stupid or not. And I don't care if it's stupid or not. I just, I don't have that.

But I remember I was challenged by my high school coach and my dad and said, hey, you're the quarterback. You're the leader. And I didn't know what that meant, but I tried. And the more reps I got at it, I mean, I don't remember that conversation with Eli. But that doesn't surprise me. I felt like I've been that way for a really long time. How does somebody develop that?

I think this is a really good quality. I've noticed especially the more direct, the more real, the more honest, the quicker you build relationships with people and the deeper that you build relationship with people. But I don't think this has come natural to me. I think it's very hard and I'm still a work in progress. And I noticed when I had the conversation yesterday with a potential huge client that could last for a long time. And I was just, I was actually preparing for this. And I know this is how you are of just say it. Just say it. Be very direct. Just be very honest because we'll get past the surface level corporo-type conversations that happen from time and time. And if it's not a fit, it's not a fit.

You know what I'm saying? That's it. But we are, me and this person who I was talking with yesterday, are pretty, we got pretty close pretty quick from both of us kind of just saying it as opposed to beating around the bush or saying surface-level things. And so I'm curious, to me, it's just taking a lot of time. It sounds like it's a part of who you are. But what are ways we can develop this ability just to be more direct, more real, more honest. When I talk about this, intentions matter, right? I can't just go recklessly say to some random person, hey, you're obese. I can't just go attack somebody and say, oh, I thought it, so I should say it.

Yeah. But the intentions behind it, I always go back to purpose. I always go back to purpose. If you can genuinely say, I'm trying to help you. I'm not going to be right. It's like parenting, right? There's no manual for this. I'm trying to help you.

You take this feedback for what it's worth. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying this is what I see. This is what I see. I'm going to say it every single time. And then you have that choice whether you want to hear it or not or whether you want to do anything with it or not. I would like for you to say, yeah, that's right. My ego will say, hey, I'm giving you the feedback.

I'll help you. But I don't even need you to do that. I'm just telling you from as a coach, from a friend, from a husband, from a dad. here's what I see. I expect the people in my life, the Foxhole people in my life, to be exact, I want people to tell me exactly what they see. And then I'll choose to do with that feedback when I will, but I've gotten a lot of reps at it. I've gotten a lot of reps at it. I'd say what's on my mind a lot, and that doesn't make me right. I have no connection, no attachment to the approval of others. I just say what I feel. And other people have the opportunity to do what they want with it.

How do you respond when an assistant coach gives you feedback and you realize that that assistant coach is right and you are wrong? What does that like inside of your locker room inside of with your coaching staff? That's our program. We are a culture of feedback constantly. And it's clear as day there are no egos in our locker room in our coach's office. You say it. I tell them all to you say it. In the moment you see it, you better have to.

Do you remember the last time that happened? It happened yesterday. It happened yesterday. So assistant coach says, Garen, hey, this thing, whatever,

you did this wrong or what are you doing? Like, take me inside that. What's that like? I say, I love it. Keep speaking up. Really? It happened this morning,

actually, in a text. I asked for feedback. And guys say it. We are a culture in our program of critical feedback. It is the most unselfish culture you can get because most people don't say it to conserve their self to I don't have the courage to say it or they'll justify and say well he won't listen anyway or it's not worth it that that's just selfish behavior and we call that out all the time

if it's in you and you notice it and you don't say it you're hurting our culture you're hurting our program you're hurting our team you're hurting the development of kids so if we have an offensive coach right now that doesn't like what our defense is doing okay so you speak up and you say it every single time. At some point, we're going to have to disagree and commit or we're going to have to change, right? So we foster that all the time. I'll tap them on the chest, but what? You hold something in? What you got? Say it, man. Let's go. Make us better. There are no egos. We're all here just trying to get better. If your ego's involved, you're going to end up hurting a kid. It goes back to our purpose. We're actually trying to maximize people.

And the moment you don't say anything and that kid doesn't get or gets cheated because the adults didn't address it in the coach's office, that's terrible. That's terrible. We've already had our high school experience. These guys deserve us to be able to do that as adults. Does that create bigger turnover on your staff? What's that like for your, I'm thinking of it in a corporate environment of making this more of the norm, but there are tradeoffs to everything that we do.

And I wonder what's the turnover like on your staff? It's not. We have deep, very loyal assistant coaches. Really? Very deep connections. Very loyal assistant coaches. It's not for everybody. Now, we had one assistant.

and I would smoke like six cigarettes and like freaking out because it made him so uncomfortable. And what was uncomfortable? Growth. Hearing conflict and hearing disagreements and hearing arguments. And that excites the hell out of me. Like that's how you truly get better. When someone's challenging you and you have to like really go back and say, no, this is what we're doing. This is what we believe in.

This is how we're going to do it. I'll show you why. Look, here. Look, I can prove it to you. But that's not for. everybody. It's not for everybody. And some people say, well, you're wasting time or your ego's involved. In my opinion, it's clear to me when you're a culture of everybody's challenging everybody, nobody's off limits. People love it, man. People respect that. Some do. Like, this is the best thing for us. Well, I think it also, they could probably tell from you where it comes from, right? You talk about your purpose of maximizing people, which we're going to dig into that deep here in a second. But you, you, you, your purpose of that, that it comes from a place of genuine care. And that genuine part is a really big deal.

And when it comes from that place, that's where I think, how could you not love it? Like, if you sent me a text, hey, dude, I listened to that podcast and I think you messed up this part. I'm so grateful for that because I know where it comes from. I know it's because you want me to be better. And it's an easier to send a text that was killer podcast. Great job. or just to say nothing, as opposed to doing the harder, selfless thing, right? Not selfish thing.

Selfless thing to give direct real feedback to make somebody better, even if it may, even if you know it may sting them a little bit initially when they receive it. It's got to be an affair of the heart, man. It's got to come from the heart. It can't be reckless and it can't be just to be a jerk or I'm going to embarrass you or it has to come from real intention. And I think in our program, in my life, the foxhole people that I have around, I don't think anybody would ever call me a caring dude. No one would ever accuse me, like label me, I mean, that guy's caring.

But that's what it is. That's what it is. It's a love piece that, I mean, I cry all the time. And like, that's people don't get to see. I'm not refined or I'm not a smooth guy or my feedback's kind of rough. I don't care about any of that. I care about the connection, the respect, the love that I get from everybody else that I want to have relationships with. It's funny. I talked to our mutual, really good friend Brooke Cups about you. And he told me that the thing that he's really proud of with you. And I don't know if he's told you this before was he said he's got to see your evolution. And he's when I met him a while ago, I've got to see this progression where he was a self.

self-serving arrogant kid to become an ultra impactful leader and father. What does that mean to you when you hear that? That's where I was, man. I do this all the time. If you don't look back on your life and feel embarrassed by how you acted or how you behaved or who you hung out with or what you did, I think you're not actually living, right? Some of the things that I look back on and cringe, my life could have went a completely different way. And I think that's great. I think that's great. I was a kid, man. Like I was, I was learning. I was a head football coach at age 23. I'm super grateful for that and embarrassed. Like the way I acted, the way I did things, the way I said things, like the way I cared about people. But I wouldn't be sitting right here right now if I didn't have that.

If I wasn't that way, I would be different. So yeah. And Brooke has done a, unbelievable job of helping me transition i didn't read a book in high school man i didn't buy books in college like brooke gave me a patrick lynchione's book five dysfunctional of a team when i was assistant i read it one night i haven't stopped reading books since it just that type of stuff it has been huge for me and my family i would i wouldn't be remotely the type of guy i am without people like that that poured into me you've won a few state championships as a head coach head football coach, and those don't happen by accident. You're currently building a program to maybe do the same thing at some point.

What all goes into not winning one, but multiple state championships, especially in a state like Ohio, which is crazy about high school football, to be the guy, to leading the team, to be holding that trophy multiple times at the end of the season, what goes into the building of a program? program to then have that be the result. Yeah, I can speak clearly on this now. I couldn't right after we won it or during the process of winning it. It's so easy to see the micro behaviors, the differences between the people that do achieve at a high level and the people that don't or the teams that do and the teams that don't. And I'm working tirelessly trying to get this sold into our guys now.

Because there is a major difference. The cohesion, the amount of work, the amount of sacrifice, like, it was just as messy as it is when you lose. It's just as hard as it is when you lose. But they do little things like show up and show up on time, take feedback, watch a little bit more tape. Like it's all the simple things that everybody knows. they actually do. And then you get lucky in a kid slips or a kicker misses a ball to the left.

And then you, whoa, you just win a state title. Like, that's what it felt like. It was so similar to being four and six, to be in seven and three, to be in three and seven. It was so similar, minus these little micro behaviors. I wish people could see it because it's so clear to see.

You should be on a 0 and 10 football team. team and you should be able to see a state, be on a state championship team. And you could go, it's so similar. Like, it's so, yes, there are clear distinctions. Mm-hmm. But it's not that far off. What are some of those little things?

Being able to show up consistently. It's crazy. Being able to show up with a great attitude consistently. Being able to fail, being humble enough to take feedback and actually get better. Like, it's the stuff that everybody thinks they're doing or everybody wants to do, being able to be close enough to have arguments, being able to get kicked out of practice and come back the next day and say,

you know what, I'm going to be better. The teams that don't do it, they just come back to practice next day. Instead of saying, I'm going to come back and actually fix the things that need to be fixed. It's so simple to me, man. It feels like a lot of trust is built.

There has to be, and I think vulnerability leads to some of that, the leader going first, the leader leading with trust. how have you successfully built such trusting environments? I think you have to be trustworthy and trust willing at the same time. You have to be able to say, guys, here's the mission. We're all going to commit to this mission and let's do it as hard as we possibly can.

No one knows how it's going to go. Let's do it as wholeheartedly, fully in everything we got. and just iterate it throughout. I think it goes back to clear purpose. I think it has to be direct, constant feedback in a culture of growth. But I think really where it all stems from is like a shared suffering.

Like you have to be in it together, doing hard, getting messy, struggling, straining, crying, failing, and knowing that,

dammit, I got your back. I got your back. I got your back. We're all going to feel like we're in desert life at some point during this process. And that's okay. I think this can happen. And this absolutely can happen off the football field in corporate America.

You can build teams and build companies that have shared suffering, that have trust, that have vulnerability, that have tears, that have celebrations, that have failures, that have loud arguments at times. In fact, I think that's a sign of a healthy culture that you can actually do that as opposed to the not healthy where you have the meeting. Everyone just kind of not, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, and then you go off after the meeting and there's separate little clicks whispering about other people. That, I think, is the death of a team, whether it's on a sports team or in corporate America. You've got to sculpt it with the right people, though. Yes. It has to be the right people. And I couldn't imagine.

I've never been in business. I don't know. But I would be reckless and searching for, do I have the right people? Because it can't be, it really can't be about money. It can't be about position. It can't be about moving up. It can't be. It has to be about us.

And that's so hard to find, man. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned your purpose multiple times. And I'm going to get back to why I wanted you to come on in the first place. So we had our 2023 growth summit in Columbus, Ohio. I asked you to speak. You know, you made a lot of jokes about feeling like you weren't worthy or you shouldn't have a slot.

I had a good gut feeling about it. And then you get up there and just absolutely destroyed the room. It was so good. I mean, still talked about a leadership circle meeting today, in fact. And your name was brought up multiple times. And people who only know you from that one interaction. action. And I want to dig into some of the content, but at a high level, what I love the most about you is it's just so rare to find somebody who has that clear of purpose of here's what I'm here to do.

Here's what I'm doing. And here's how I do it. I've been around a lot of really smart people, a lot of accomplished people. Not a lot of them. And I'm in this boat, too, of not of not having. that level of clarity yet and sense of purpose yet. I think I'm on the path because of you guys, right? We're talking regularly, but not there. That is such a desirable place to be. And we're going to get into some of that. But first, how have you got this place of such clarity of purpose, of what you are here to do?

What was the process like to get there? A lot of failing, a lot of struggle. reps of all of that, making mistakes and getting called out on them, a ton of reading, a ton of listening, a ton of reflecting. But I really think it's been like the foxhole people that I text or call or sit down with all the time and having real conversation. Why do we do what we do, man? We won our second state title and I drove home and went to sleep.

And that's it. Like state titles were cool and they are really cool. But that was it. There has to be more to this. There has to be more to this. And I say it to our guys all the time. I've come to this through just reps of watching and observing. But your fiancé, when you go to propose to her,

she's not going to care about what your record was your senior year. She's not even going to ask. So there has to be more to this, right? Yes, winning matters. Yes, winning matters. Yes, you have. But, man, when you're at your funeral, no one's going to care that I was the high school quarterback at Urbana high school.

when we went 10 and no one's going to care about that they want to know are you a high quality person are you trustworthy do you are you going to be dependable are you good are you disciplined enough to support us are you are you a foxhole type person and i've just become clear i've been a head coach i think for like 15 years or something like that and i've just seen it and these guys that are really good at football that go on or really good at business that go on and move up but they don't have the skill set to be a quality person that keeps me up at night man we had a kid go through program and he didn't turn out. Like that that that bothers me. Yeah, we went nine and one with when he's senior year. But that that to me is just not enough. So I've worked really hard at trying

to find, but I've always seen it that way too. So I've just gotten better at it through reps. What's your purpose? To maximize people. And it's clear. Anybody that comes in the contact with me, I'm going to challenge them and try to get them to be better. And that's not for everybody. Some people don't like that. Some people don't want that. My biggest fear is allowing zombies or slugs in my life that don't get better. Don't get better from our interactions. I hate that. I don't like cheating people.

Maybe that's arrogant. Maybe that's egotistical. But I want to see people be better. And I'm going to die on empty too. I want to try to maximize myself. I'm right there with you. How did you decide that that was your purpose? Same thing, man.

Trying to win games. Trying to win a state title. I remember I went to coaching. I said, I want to win a state championship. And then it's like, dude, that's not right. there's plenty of really good people that don't win state championships. Like having a child, having a daughter, she could care less how many games the Dublin Cuffman Rocks went. Am I good dad?

Am I good friend? Do players come back and say, you know what? I'm better having been in your guys' program. He's maximizing me, or he did when he's with me and he changed the arc of my life, that type of thing. You've had coaches like this. We've all had coaches like this. The coaches that actually impacted our. lives and then the other coaches that just didn't they didn't and I've been around plenty of

really good coaches I've been around a lot of really bad ones and I said I want to be like those guys I want to be like those guys those guys that truly make a dent in the world by challenging people and demanding have extremely high standards and seeing how good we can make people be coach carroll's a big one my dad's another one my grandpa's another you go right on down a list of all the people that they don't say their mission was to maximize people, but that's what they did. You've mentioned a lot of people, and you've mentioned the phrase foxhole multiple times. A commonality guarantee I've seen in people who sustain excellence over time is they are so intentional and so good about their who, about the people they decide to surround themselves with.

And I know this is a core component of your life. Can you define what a foxhole guy is for you and what they do for you? the people will be there when it's hard, man. I've got a ton of them, and they're all spread out, and a lot of them aren't real connected. And I'm so lucky. It's like the highlight of my life. When you look at my foxhole, they're so good. The cross-country coach at Minster, the microfiber optics guy down in Orlando,

Brooke Cups at Centerville, the head coach at McKenna. I got football people. I got people all over that aren't connected, but they're all killing it. and I'm so lucky to have those type of people that when I get diagnosed with cancer, they'll all be right there. They'll all be right there. And I think that's what life is. That's really what life is.

What's your foxhole like? How good are they? Are they the people that are absolutely crushing all aspects of life? And if not, make it better. I think that's life, man. But a big part of it, though, is you have to earn that. It's like the old Charlie Munger quote when someone said, How do you get a great wife?

And he said, deserve one. And I think the same thing with the Foxwell friend. And so I have to ask you, how have you intentionally earned such a great group of friends? It's what Brooke Cups was talking about, what he saw as a kid to where I am now. And I'm nowhere close to it where, obviously, I'm very flawed and have a ton of things to get better at. But it's been a long, grueling process. of actually fixing behaviors that I didn't like about myself that made me feel malcontent and looking in the mirror and saying, you know what?

You've got to be better. You've got to be better. And it's as simple as that, really. It's been hard. It's been a lot of hours of reading. One of the best things that ever happened to me was I took a job that I had to drive an hour to for eight years. And on the way there, I listened to a podcast and reflected on everything, every single

day and on the way home I sat in silence with myself for an hour for eight years and just reflected on who I wanted to be, how I wanted to coach, who I wanted to surround myself with, what I was reading, what I needed to listen to, what I needed to get better at. I got a doctorate in sitting with myself for eight years for an hour a day. And that's helped me tremendously. I wouldn't have near the the type of foxhole that I have without like doing the messy, uncomfortable work that I've had to do. The time to almost be in a sort of silence of you're not on the phone, you're not listening to anything. You have to focus on the road, but you also have plenty of time. We've all done that before.

We do it a lot. That self-reflection, the prompts to yourself analyzing probably what you did as well as what you've learned, that seems lacking in a lot of people's lives. In the back to back to back to back meeting type world we live in now, there's not enough silence. There's enough stillness, as Ryan Holiday might say, it feels like that's an issue. I love it. You have to have that.

And you've got to be able to sit in the discomfort. I just didn't. That's not who I want to be. That behavior, that action, that interaction, whatever. That's not who I want to be. And you have to just sit in it. and say, you know what, I'm not going to be that way anymore. I'm not going to do it that way anymore.

I'm going to change this or, hey, I really liked how I did that. And then I'll call people, hey, what did you think? Give it to me. Tell me what you think. And I'll take uncomfortable feedback and just sit in it. That to me is why are you alive, man? Why are you be who you are, pour your heart and soul into being you. And at the same time, get your ass better, right?

I think to think about like the people in your life who you treasure okay I don't get me wrong man I like getting Pat's in the back from time of time hey great job great podcast great great speech whatever but when you find that person or those few people in your life who say hey dude you know the transition around the 10 minute mark when you said this if you would have done this fill in the blank or maybe thought about it this way fill in the blank you would have been better. It would have been better. I fall in love with those people, legitimately love those people, and there are so few of them. But to me, it's in order to get those, we need to be those types of people where it comes from a real place of care and love. And then you have others who are willing to do

the selfless thing to tell you the hard thing that you messed up. But again, the leaders who make it happen time and time again are really good about having foxhole people in their life like that, right? That is the thing. And that is what's, whenever you come across a leader with a low level of self-awareness, it's, it's rough, right? But we've all, we face them all the time, right? You probably had a boss like that from time, time. I know I have. What I notice is they don't have anybody in their life. They don't have anybody in their life telling them, dude, what are you doing? or that two-hour Zoom where you just droned on forever with the graphs and the weird 90-page deck that's not good, who's in your life?

Why isn't there someone in your life telling you to fix this? And it's in a way sad. But it is on us, though, to be that for others so that we could also get that from others. I think that's a huge part of this with you, man. Yeah. I'm just sitting here listening. I think about this. We'll get a coach.

It's like 28 years old. 32 years old and they don't know how to coach. And I've never, I've never seen this. I'm so grateful for the people in my life that gave me the feedback that taught me how to do this because you see these guys that are 32 years old. I've never, I've never been around a culture where I've never had a boss that actually like tells me that I need to do this or I should stand here. I should give them this feedback or I should go home and do this or I've never had anybody like that. And that's how you get that way. And that's how you get that way. You see people get cheated.

That's what it is. They get cheated because they either had an environment that didn't challenge them. And then they just fell into the trap of repeating the same day over and over again. Or, you know, they just haven't had somebody just pour into them. And you, you had the same thing. I had the same thing. I was super grateful for the people that did so that we can continue on. How do parents of your players respond when they see how intense you are, how tough you are on their kids?

I'm curious of do you have issues or do you have obviously I would love for one of my kids to play for you I love for one of kids to play for Brooke I know how it would change their life but I know not everybody's like that I like coaches who are tough on kids like unless you're like abusing them I'm good with you being tough on them how do they respond to to your style it's awesome so at first everybody is this guy's unrefined this guy's rough around the edges this guy he just tells them what they think all time he's too hard he hurts or self-esteem or and then over time they go, oh, he's changed. He's changed. I get that all time. They think you've changed? They think I've changed. Oh, he's changed. He's changed his style. What's happened is you've gotten to know me a little bit. I've gotten to know your kids. Your kids have gotten to know me. They know the intentions are right. Not every, we're always going to have resistance, right? When you're in the arena, you're always going to have somebody saying something negative.

fine with that. But over time, they go, yeah, this isn't that bad. And then they see their kids come home and they're a little bit more disciplined. And they're a little bit more like willing to sacrifice. They're a little bit more unselfish. They're a little bit overall, they're just a higher character version of what they used to be. And then wow, it's so good. Some parents like it. some parents don't like it's it's okay i see the benefit of what happens to the kids i saw the benefit what happened to me in that environment are you good if we go through some of the if i list some of the high level parts of the talk that you gave at the the workshop and then you kind of drill down a little bit yeah okay so again this is about your purpose and it was about knowing that your job is

to maximize people and i actually really like to tell you you structured the talk. I'm going to tweak some things with my talks because the structure was really effective of how you started high level and you drilled down and you had stories. Like it was really well done. It was almost like you go around the world giving speeches all the time and I know you don't, but you probably should. So I'm going to hit like the high level ones and can you kind of drill down into those and I might group some of them together. So feel free to kind of respond how you wish. But to me, I want to reenact that a little bit if you're okay with it. Yep. The first two high points are own it and live it. So can you go through what own it and live it mean? Yeah, I think the number one

responsibility of a leader is to know that your job is to get the most out of the people that you're in charge of. And I tell myself that every single morning, own it. Do not get off track. Your job isn't to win. Your job isn't to win state titles. Your job isn't to have a nice life and make money. Your job is to maximize people. And that's what they expect of you. So I tell I tell myself that that little tiny change, own it. That's your job. They're not going to bring it. They're not going to be at their best today. They're expecting you to be at your best. So be at your best, right? And then how are you going to do that? How are you going to gain credibility as the leaders? I tell myself, your ass better live it. If I'm going to ask kids to work, I better be the standard of work. If I'm going to ask kids to

be tough, I better be the standard of toughness. And if I'm going to ask people to be unselfish and loyal, I better have these guys back even when it gets hard. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't kick kids off the team, right? Better be the standard for unselfish and loyal. I better be the standard for that. I'm going to ask kids to do things the right way. I said in the talk, the Kansas State basketball coach during the tournament said,

preach to gospel every single day and sometimes use words. Like that is, that to me is the best example you can ever give somebody. Own it and live it, man. Those are the two foundational pieces of getting your purpose right every single day and modeling the way before you ever speak. a freaking word to anybody how do you do that how do you model the way without words so we are we're

value-based right like we're going to say we're going to work like crazy are going to be tough we're going to be unselfish we're going to be loyal we're going to be unselfish we're going to be loyal we're going to do things the right way like that we're value-based I better be the standard in those values like so I work like crazy I'm I work like crazy I've devoted my life to a game of football and running a football program. People see that. Anybody that's in our vicinity knows that, well, Garon's going to watch more tape than everybody else. Garen's going to be the first one here. Garen's going to be the last one to leave. Garen's, and I know that workaholic culture is kind of like throwing, we're going to work like crazy. You're not, you're not going to give more energy than I am during a practice. You're not going

to be as focused as I am during a practice. That I have to be the standard. And even if I don't want to, that's my right. That's my responsibility. That's part of owning it. So, So you're not going to see me complain to officials. You're not going to see me whine and make excuses. I have to be the toughest guy in our program. I have to be. Or I'm not going to talk at all about being tough. You're going to see me respond to adversity.

You're going to see me not flinch. You're going to see I have to be that way or I can't talk to our guys about doing it. How do you show up and do that with such energy and passion on the days when you don't feel well? By waking up and opening my eyes and saying, these people expect you to be. the leader. You have to own that. Your responsibility. I really go back. I'm very simple in my thought process. I really go back to the days that you don't feel like it. I didn't feel like it the other day. We had a long seven on seven. We had youth camp at night and we had a six a.m. lift the next morning. I was exhausted. You ninja kick your ass out of bed and you go because those people deserve it.

Like they have to have their leader at their best, or you can't get them to be at theirs. The next two, okay, own it, live it, create it, see it. Create it and see it. I think environment matters so much. I think, Brooke and I talk about this. If you put Gabe Cups in a different environment, I don't know that he goes to Indiana. I don't know that he does. And I think the environment that a leader is in charge of, can you,

you foster a culture of growth? Can you foster a culture of energy? A culture, we call it attack mode, a culture of in it, not afraid to fail, not afraid to struggle, pull your whole heart and soul in it. Can you foster that where people are not afraid to be the whole self and just go after it? And then seeing it, I said this, I think the best leaders I've ever, the best coaches I've ever been around, have the ability to see it for what it is, and then in their head, they see a better version of it, and then they make it that way.

Yeah, this presentation was good, but it could have been way better, or this drill was done, but it wasn't done, well, the way I see it, it should be done exactly like this, and they have ability to see it better than what it is, and then they have to make it that way.

Say it and change it are the next two. So once you've seen it, right? Once you've seen it as it is and in your head you see it better than it should be or better than it is better than it could be. You have to have the courage to say it. I told you, sir. I saw it. I just never, you know, I never spoke up about it. You have to be able to say it.

And how you say it matters. I believe that. But it doesn't matter more than it being said. Yeah. Even if it's rough, even if it's not taken well, even if it makes you super uncomfortable, it has to be said. It has to be said. You've been there. Everybody's been there. Why didn't you tell me? If you had just told me, I would have just told me, I would have fixed it immediately. Like, tell me. So you have to see it, then you have to say it. And then the real effective people actually get it changed. Well, I told you, I said it over and over again, well, how many times do I need to say it? Well, obviously one more time or maybe a hundred million more times in order to get it changed. You've got to actually change the behavior. Change the response. Change what you're getting, change the outcome, whatever it is.

is you may have to put your arm around them. You may have to take them out to lunch. You may have to shoot them a text. You may have to pull them in and have a one-on-one direct. I don't know how you have to change it. There's a million methods out there on how to change it. But I know this. The effective ones get it changed.

I think the saying it part is also huge to focus on for a second because it's been the theme of this entire conversation. But having the willingness and the care and the love to speak up, I work with a company called Insight Global, and one of their shared values is always know where you stand. And I think that is a great value if you live it. And it is a great part about the culture of the company is because they know I'm not really living true to the culture here. If I think something and I'm not telling you, and even worse, if I think something about you, because I did 360s for all their senior leaders. And this came up so many times where somebody would start to say something. critical about another person. That's what happens when you do 360 reviews. That's part of doing a

360 and they would say, are you okay if I call them and then I'll call you back? Of course I'm okay with that. And they would call them in that moment because they were talking critically about them and they had not told them yet. And that is an awesome mark of culture where they inconvenienced me a little bit, but it was fully worth it. And it happened multiple times with different people where they did not feel comfortable speaking negatively about somebody behind their back. And so they stopped the call and called them. And I think that is a signal. That is a, that is a mark of a place where like you and all of your assistants and your players. I was recently asked by a coach that one of my children play for. They were struggling team. And the coach pulled me aside. And I, I don't want to talk to

coaches like as a parent. I don't that's not something I do. Right. But they pulled me aside because they know what I do. And I said, well, are the players holding each other accountable? That was my question to this coach. And knowing that from my vantage point, they were not. And I said, I feel like, now, that doesn't, you can't flip a switch. That doesn't happen overnight. You've had to build this into part of your culture. So you can't just start yelling at the girls. Hey, you should yell at each other. That's not how it goes. But to me, that's what I'm seeing is they're not necessarily holding each other accountable. And when I, Garon, look at the teams that were really good. And I played on bad teams, unfortunately, too, although I guess good for the experience. The biggest difference

to me were the teams that did really well. The players constantly held each other accountable out of a place of love and care to get better versus the bad teams where there may be whispers, their clicks, there's not a lot of that saying it part. And I think that saying it from a place of love is a massive difference between the teams that do well versus the teams that don't. It's so rare, too. Yeah. It's so rare to find enough people that are aligned in the same mission, the same purpose going the same direction, that have the courage to speak up. I tell our assistants all this.

I ask them all the time, what good does you going home and talking bad about me do? Or you coming in the coach's office and talking bad about the player do. What does that do? Like that's one of the dumbest, most selfish things. It's not helping anybody. Go tell the kid. tell me let's fix it we all want to be good but people ego ego and selfishness man just swallow people up and i want to eradicate that the world would be better if we didn't have that

the next two are honor slash punish it and repeat it so honor slash punish it and repeat it so in order to get the behavior shaped the way you want it you have to they have to know exactly what you want with clarity So you need to honor the right ones. So people see it and repeat it. They get their dopamine hits or whatever scientific piece comes with it. And then their buddies see, oh, the coach just said, that's the way to do it. Well, then let's do it that way.

And then it just, it spreads like wildfire. And at the same time, you have to be able to confront. And when I say punish, that doesn't mean like a physical punishment all the time or a verbal punishment all the time. But it needs addressed. If you walk by something below standard and you do not get it corrected or confront it or challenge it or at least say it, you're lower in the standard. You're lowering the standard. You're cheating the kid and it goes back to the purpose. Like our job is to maximize people.

So if you're not punishing them for like we have a thing in our program, it's two pushups. So if you have a false step or you screw up on a hard skill that is everybody knows like you don't push your chair in or you don't clean up after yourself. like you drop and do two pushups as a reminder that is a punishment that is something physical that is a reminder that says that's not how we behave here that's not how we do things it needs to be fixed get it fixed and on our on our high level teams they would drop and do two pushups on their own before a coach even got to them because it was a remind like it was such a culture of let's get better that's the only reason why you honor it you don't honor it to like feed somebody's self-esteem you honor it to get the right behavior so you can reach the mission right you the only reason you

punish it is not hurt the child or hurt the employee like you punish it to get the right behavior to reach the mission so our kids would do that on their own and it became just a culture of we're aligned and honoring and punish it and then all of a sudden the kids are doing it the kids are honoring it the kids are punishing it repeat it is the next one after honor or punish it so the the whole scheme right the whole scheme. Own it, live it, create it, see it, say it, change it, honor, punishment, punish it, and then repeat it. Okay, you can do it for a day. You can do it for an hour and a half of practice. Can you do it for four years? I think that's such a skill that, okay, you showed up with energy today. Good job. You killed it on Monday. Now kill it on Tuesday. Now do the whole

thing again on Wednesday. And then when you're super tired on Thursday, do it better to than you did it on Monday. Can you, I think that's such a skill. Like your state championship teams, they weren't that much better. They just did it over and over and over and over again. And people, there's got to be more, there's got to be more. There's not more to it.

There's not more to it. They're just more consistent. They repeated it over and over and over again. And then boom, we showed up at the horseshoe and won a state title. I was like, where in the heck did that come from? Where'd that come from? It came from repeating that same stuff over and over again. Compounds, man.

It's powerful. Compounding is a very powerful. powerful force if you're willing to show up and consistently do it. I know this firsthand. It is it is both from a playing career and off the field. The same mentality has led to some really really cool opportunities. The last one is evaluate it all right the kind of the to bring it all home evaluating everything. The great separator right the great separator. If you're off course even a little bit you'll end up at the wrong outcome right. You have to be able to evaluate it to iterate the whole thing. Keep it on course. You have to do it. Can you debrief as often as

possible and get the critical feedback you need to say, yes, we need to continue to do it this way. This is perfect. Because none of us know. None of us have a clue whether we're going to end up in the right spot. But we think this is right. We must change this now. This needs to be way better. we need to do it this way. Can you have a true humble commitment to truly evaluate? Not say, hey, good job today. Good job, guys. Good job.

No, was it good enough? Was it good enough? And I think when you evaluate, man, you just create a culture of the whole thing over again. And this got brought up during the talk, too, that there are, it's very normal to have like a yearly review. sometimes two times a year, people to reviews. And to me, this is an obvious carryover from the football field.

I mean, I've talked about every rep of every practice. Obviously, the games two was a grade, right? There's a just wrote about this, right? You got a plus, a plus, plus, a minus or a double minus. Every single rep of every practice, not even just all team reps, but literally every rep. Individual seven on seven routes on air. Everything was graded. And to me, like that's also why I think I love.

of feedback because it's just ingrained to get it. This once a year performance review thing, I understand from an HR perspective why people do it. And that's fine. But as a leader, it is our job, our responsibility to be evaluating and providing feedback every second of every day. It's got to be like an all the time thing. And it just, it feels to me like this is so embedded in both you as a person as well as the culture that you've built wherever you're leading. So I'm an education, right? And we teach children for 180 days of a school year. And we get an evaluation maybe twice a year.

It's the most asinine thing. And I've ever been around my life. You're putting a human being in charge of children, the most impactful place in the world. And they get evaluated maybe twice a year. It's crazy. In our program, you know exactly where, what we think of you at that. point in time every five seconds. And it's the way you should live. I tell our administration, whether you guys think I'm a good coach or a bad coach, I don't care. I don't care about your

opinion because you have no, you see it 10 nights. You see it on 10 nights. And then you hear stories. The people that you want to be around you are the people that are evaluating consistently all the time. And I don't understand that that world. I don't understand that world. Yes, I get it from an HR standpoint. But your people should know, you get too far off course if you don't have that. I get too far off course in my life. If I feel like I'm not getting enough feedback, I'll just sit in somebody, a text or call somebody or stay somebody and stay in the office with somebody and say, hey, shoot me straight. What are we? What do you think about this? What do you think about this? Or I'll give

somebody else feedback so they get defensive and then give me feedback. I don't know this at all. I've no idea what you're going to say, but how are you at home as a husband and a dad? For some, maybe too intense or like, chill out, Garen. Jeez. Like, how are you at home with your wife and your kids? I'm not that intense. We laugh more than anybody. We dance more than anybody. Really? But I can be, right? Like, I can be. When I get started talking about this stuff, I get jacked up, man. This is the way you should live, or at least in my opinion, we try to get better here. We try to get better. My daughter wants to get better. My wife wants to get better. And they give me I'm the feedback guy. I'm the feedback guy. So guess what the feedback guy gets all the time at home.

You get the feedback. So you give them a lot of feedback? Not really. They give me more than anything, man. Okay. I'm terrible at 90% of life. I don't dabble in religion. I don't dabble in politics. I don't dabble in retirement or money or anything like that. This is kind of what I devote my life to. And then the people around me kind of help the other part of it. of the word balance. I've gotten better at it. When COVID hit, I don't think I ever had a better time because I only talk to the people that really matter. I got to spend a ton of time with my daughter at a critical age and I became more balanced. Balance isn't the right word. It's not the right word because you can't get good at something. You can't become super competent and go through the hard

without pouring your heart and soul into it. So, like, you can chase balance. It's always the old retired people. I wish I was more balanced. They were really good. But they wouldn't have been really good if they would have been balanced. So, I don't know.

I'll look back at five years from now and look at this conversation, but what an idiot. There's also, you mentioned some daily questions that I think I love end of the day prompts. Like one of my favorites, I strive to be a learning machine and one of the prompts to measure myself

on if I'm a learning machine is, am I going to bed tonight a little bit wiser than I was when I woke up, right? What did I do? What books that I read? What people did I talk to? What podcasts I listened to who have interacted with to ensure I'm just a little bit wiser going to bed. And if I stack enough those days, I'm going to be pretty good.

Here's some of your prompts that I like to you to expand on why they are. Am I at my best? Are my intentions right? How can I get the most out of everybody today? Share more about these daily questions for yourselves and why you ask them. I do this really often before I get out of my car. Am I at my best today? Am I at my best?

Are my intentions right? Do I have the right energy? Do I have the right frame of mind? Am I feeling sorry for myself or am I sluggish today? Because I can't be. They expect me to be at my best, right? So am I at my best? Are my intentions right?

Are my intentions right? Am I going here thinking about my wife or how I had a long day or I'm in conflict with this person or we got to find a way to win this game this week or or is it about actually serving and giving the people is it about actually pouring in to the people it's very easy to get your intentions skewed very easy daily and then did I get their very best how do I get their how do I get their best that's the question in the car how do I get their very best today what do they need sometimes they're wants and needs don't align what do they need sometimes they need pushed. Sometimes they need hug. Sometimes they need energy. Sometimes they need

to be quiet. What is it that they need in order for me and us to get their best? I meant to bring this up earlier when you mentioned state titles. What's your goal setting process? I don't set goals. No goals. I don't say goals. Honestly, I'm a, I'm a routine guy. I'm a behavior guy. I have a list of behaviors or things that I want to do daily. But I laugh and joke a lot. Like, I'm on a one-day contract. I'm on a one-day contract, and let's go kill it today and then see if we can repeat it tomorrow.

And I've been like that for a really long time, and I don't know if I should have goals or not. But so far, I just keep getting opportunities to, like, continue to do what I do. So your team doesn't set goals for the team. Like win the league, win the state title, that's never been a thing.

Never been talked about. Never been talked about. Wow. In fact, they want me to hang the league championship picture up in our facility. And I don't really care about that at all. It goes kind of against what. And some people do and it works for them. I just don't value that.

I want people to be like the hardest, working, toughest, most loyal, unselfish people who choose to do things the right way. I want to honor that. I don't care about you running an if eight to 12 dig at a really high level. I don't care about that. I know that matters. I get it. But I don't want to honor those behaviors that I don't really care about. So it's not really about you don't think you need to strive for a certain result in order to achieve it.

It feels like you're just so married to the process and you can divorce the outcome. So Brooke's title of his book is Surrender the Outcome. And that has been us for a very long time. This may be stupid. Go as hard as you possibly can with the right intentions. evaluate it and then reflect on it at the end and see where you're at. Like, you know, the C students that, that worked their tail off in class and they get a C. Like, that's what they get.

You got more out of your education than the A student who didn't do Jack. I'm that type of guy. We'll just go and wherever we end, like, that's where we'll be. That's where we're supposed to be. Oh, man, this is so good. One more. Let's say a former player comes back and they just graduated college, right? They love you.

You love him. And buddies, he's, he's in that world. A lot of us have been when they're 23-ish where you're, man, I want to do good. I love you. You've raised my level of performance and what I'm striving for, but I don't really know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I want to do. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice you'd give to that person?

Surround yourself with incredible people. Put yourself in the right environment, even if you have to volunteer, even if you have to be out of your comfort zone times a million. get yourself around the right people in the right environment and then go get reps mess it up i'm so grateful for the terrible reps that i got i mean i got terrible reps as a freshman starting quarterback i i think i led the area and interceptions those reps being a 23 year old head football coach living with my mom those were terrible reps but you have to get them you have to get them and the people around you matter if you go get terrible reps with terrible people around you

you'll get out of the profession or you'll change the trajectory of your life. But the people around you matter. So surround yourself with the right people in the right environment and go get the reps. And it goes back to the same way how to do that, deserve it, be that person for others as well and try.

It's very similar. It took me a while to learn this, but I think getting beat out for the job when I was in college, and the world just doesn't care. They didn't care what I thought I deserved or how hard I thought I worked or if I lifted heavier weights than the other guy, they cared about who added the most value to the team.

And the other guy did. And it was obvious. I made the right choice. That guy went on to be pretty good. But that's a great learning point now for every relationship for the rest of my life was I'm not adding enough value to other people's lives. And if I want to have great people around me, well, then I got to be great. I got to be great for them.

I got to try to pour into them. And I think showing up each day with that intention gives you a better chance. to have good Foxville guys, to have good people around you that want to see you do well and they'll do whatever they can to help and you do the same for them. That's really, it's the opposite of transactional, right? These are transformational relationships of people who you want, you like love seeing your buddy. That night when Brooke won the title, man, I saw the picture of you and I was crying, dude. It was such an awesome night. I was so happy to see that process manifest itself that night.

And I think that's what we want, man. That's what it's all about is having those people around us. So I really appreciate you doing this. This will not be the last time if you're good with it. There's so much more for us to talk about. But I love it. And I'm appreciative of you. I love you, man.

And obviously, we're going to continue our dialogue as we both progressed, dude. Yeah, I don't know if it made anybody else better, but I got better. So I appreciate it. Of course, man. All right, dude. It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club. If you are, send me a note.

at learning leader.com, let me know what you learn from this great conversation with Garen Stokes, a few takeaways from my notes. Own it, live it, create it, see it, say it, change it, honor it, punish it, repeat it, evaluate it all. Those are the core components to building a world-class culture. And it's obvious that Garen has done the hard work on himself to get clarity on his purpose of maximizing people. And that is how he does it. Then think about this question. Who are your foxhole people? Foxhole people.

They're the ones who are there when it's hard. They got your back. You can call them. They'll come pick you up at 3 o'clock in the morning if you need them. They're also there to celebrate with you when things go great. Foxhole people are honest, caring, and they have deep love for you. Now, the best way to build a great group of foxhole friends is to be one. Much like the Charlie Munger quote,

how to get a great spouse, deserve one. Then Garen talked about building a great foundation, what sets you up to build a great culture. Be trustworthy and a trust-willing person, both trustworthy and trust-willing. You have to lead with trust. You have to be vulnerable. You have to be open. You have to be honest.

And when you're with a team, create opportunities for shared suffering that brings you closer together. This takes a lot of time and a lot of an intentional effort, but it's definitely worth it. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the word and telling a friend or two. Hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Garen Stokes. I think it will help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that, and you continue to go to Ryanhawk.net, which launches you into iTunes Apple Podcast. And once there, you write a thoughtful review and rate the show, hopefully five stars. And by doing that, are continuing to give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis.

And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can we?