The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 638: Kirk Herbstreit - The Most Prepared Broadcaster In The World, Responding To Adversity, Faith, Elk Pride, High School Sports, NIL Deals, Lee Corso, & The Emotional Moment When The Buckeyes Won The Title

Episode Date: June 1, 2025

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader Kirk Herbstreit is the voice of college football. A former Centerville High School and Ohio State University Quarterback, Kirk has been the lead Analyst for ESPN's College Gameday since 1996. He calls the biggest games in college football on Saturday nights, and he broadcasts the college National Championship. Beyond college football, Kirk is also the lead analyst for Thursday Night Football on Amazon Prime Video. Kirk has been nominated for 19 Sports Emmy Awards and has won 5 times. This conversation was recorded in front of about 300 people in Centerville, Ohio. Kirk's dog Peter was with us on stage when he wasn't wandering around in the audience. Kirk's emotional moment after Ohio State's national championship was about his authentic connection to Coach Day, his son (who was on the team), and all the players. "I try so hard to be impartial. I try so hard to be just objective and fair. It's almost like the culmination of just a release." Showing authentic emotion and humanity makes leaders more relatable and trustworthy, not weaker. Bob Gregg and Ron Ullery's impact: "They didn't tear your knees out, but they just made sure as a 16, 17, 18-year-old that you knew this ain't about you. It's about us." This foundation created a work ethic that translates across all of life. The most prepared broadcaster in the world - "When I started in 1996 on college game day, unless you were a Big 10 fan, you had no idea who I was. So my idea of trying to build my brand was they're gonna know me from my work ethic." "They're gonna know me from my work ethic. They're gonna know me like, damn, I don't know who that dude is, but he seems to know what he's talking about." "I prepare a hundred percent, and I use 20% for all three shows." Over-preparation creates confidence and the ability to handle any direction conversations might go. When you're not the most naturally gifted, becoming the most prepared person in the room creates a competitive advantage. High School Football Builds Life Skills – "I'm such an advocate for high school football because of my own experience... It's about what these guys are doing... simple old school values, like hard work and perseverance and facing adversity." "I could choose to be embarrassed of who I was on national TV, or choose to have a bit of a chip on my shoulder. And I was kind of a chip on my shoulder guy my whole life." Feeling underestimated can fuel extraordinary preparation and performance when channeled constructively. Deal with Imposter Syndrome when he started broadcasting NFL games for Amazon on Thursday nights: "I didn't even go to an NFL camp, and here I am calling NFL Games as the expert game analyst. And so, and I'm working with freaking Al Michaels." "I don't deserve your respect in my brain until I earn it." College Football's Current Crisis – "The players went from our era. You had no say to now they have all to say... It's like the world is upside down right now when it comes to that aspect of it." "Who fixes it? The NCAA doesn't fix it... No one's worried about the global view of the sport. They're worried about their region... who's in charge? No one's the boss." "They're great players, but they're a dime a dozen. Like you're on a conveyor belt as a player. There's other players coming right behind you." Kirk supports true name, image, likeness marketing but opposes pay-for-play: "I am a fan of, if Jeremiah Smith becomes Jeremiah Smith after he gets there... if he can make money in marketing... But not, a guy is over at Bowling Green... and LSU needs a left guard and they're just like, Hey, how much does it take?" "These coaches are a little bit hesitant on how hard they're gonna be on these guys because they don't wanna believe. Imagine being a coach and you're worried about, is this guy gonna leave if I really do what I want to do with him?" Mental Health Through Faith – "For me, it's my faith... daily devotional prayer and really trying to connect helps me... having very honest conversation with family and friends and opening up." The Value of Chosen Hardship – My perspective: "I think you gotta keep doing that stuff... choose to do really hard things every day to prove to myself that I can keep doing hard things so that when adversity strikes, I'm prepared." Generational Empathy – "This generation, I can't imagine going through what they go through, whether it's Snapchat and middle school... just everybody being in your business and everything online." The Lee Corso Legacy – "He was hot takes before we knew what Hot Takes were... our relationship really changed was off air... he was a really good listener... like Yoda or like Don Corleone." The best mentoring relationships evolve from one-directional learning to mutual care and support. The Lunatic Fringe - "There's 90% of Ohio State fans that whether they win or they lose, they're proud of 'em... every fan base has that 10% that we're all embarrassed of."

This episode is brought to you by Insight Global. Insight Global is a staffing and professional services company that builds world-class technical teams for clients around the globe. If you need help with your applications, infrastructure, or data layer, Insight Global's team of technical experts can build custom or manage services to deliver the outcomes you desire. Getting the most out of your technology can be tough, but growing your business. business with the right technical solutions can be magic. Visit Insightglobal.com slash learning leader. That's Insightglobal.com slash learning leader today to learn more. Welcome to the Learning Leader show. I am your host, Ryan Hawk.

Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleader.com for show notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learning leader. dot com. Now on to tonight's featured leader the great. Kirk Herb Street, the voice of college football, a former center of high school and Ohio State University quarterback. Kirk has been the lead analyst for ESPN's college game day since 1996. He calls the biggest games in college football on Saturday nights and he broadcasts the college national championship. Beyond college football, Kirk is also the lead analyst for Thursday night football on Amazon Prime video.

He has been nominated for 19 Sports Emmy Awards and won five times. This conversation was recorded in front of about 300 people in Centerville, Ohio. Oh, and Kirk's dog, Peter, was with us on stage when he wasn't wandering around in the crowd. It was awesome. Some of the topics we covered. why he was so emotional on TV the night, the Ohio State Buckeyes won the national championship and struggled initially to speak when ESPN's Scott Van Pelt asked him about the game.

Then we talked about how he deals with the, quote, lunatic fringe fans in the sports world. Then we both shared the importance and impact of our high school football coaches, Ron Ulary and Bob Gray. Kirk and I both went to the same high school, both played quarterfrey. for the legendary Ron Ulary and Bob Gregg. And then near the end, we talked about some mental health struggles and how to get through them. Ladies and gentlemen, this one's so good.

Please enjoy my conversation with Kirk Herb Street. I got to say something first about how this whole thing got put together. So Kirk Herb Street is the most prepared human in the world when it comes to his job, whether it's football, broadcasting, whatever it takes. The second or maybe tied for the first is Terry Herbstree. His sister is amazing. This is you have Terry a round of applause. Where should go? Right here. Oh, just the amount of prep, the amount of prep and text and calls getting ready for this. It's just so cool. Like it runs into family. It really makes a lot of sense. So he's like,

now I know where he gets. It does. It makes a lot of sense. Kirk to start, I was telling you before when we were hanging out, eating backstage that I vividly remember the January night a few months ago sitting in bed by myself for the moment. My wife's with one of my daughters and crying, watching you cry as Ohio State wins a national title. Scott Van Pelt throws it back and you go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Can you have Fowler go first? No, no, no, no, no. And I just want you to take us back to that night. Like, what are you feeling? What's it like at that moment when they throw it back to you and you're trying to bring yourself together after the Bucks win it all?

That part was so hard of scary. I mean on national TV. The game just ended. I obviously love Ohio State. But I think this particular, this particular team, oh yeah, this particular team when they lost to Michigan, the reaction, I know Ryan very well, the reaction that a lot of the fan base had towards him and towards that team. I just happened to, I had a son on the team, he had some heart issues, had to medically retire. But Ryan kept him on board. So when they did senior tackle, right after they lost him.

to Michigan. My wife and I went out. It's just a family. It's a closed event. When I played, it was open to the public. Now it's, it's closed. And it was, they just lost to Michigan. And everyone hates them. And it's closed it to, uh, to the public is at the Woody Hughes facility. And the seniors are sitting at about the 20 yard line. Ryan Day's at the goal line. And all the families are on this side. It's like a tunnel. All the families are on this side. And all the, the other team, teammates are over here. So it's like a, have a cool setup. And each position coach comes up, and he's in charge of saying something about each senior

in his group. And I went in there thinking, are they going to cancel this after that game? Are they going to, and they had it? And I didn't know what they expect. And to see guys like Trevion Henderson and Jack Sawyer and J.T. So really, all of them. But to hear them, so the coach says something about them, and then they grab the mic, and then they say something, I was just like, I think Ali was here,

we were just blown away by 48 hours later. It's them against the world. I know you guys like to say Ohio against the world. You guys weren't involved in this. This was them against the world. And when I saw that, I left there, I was like, wow, like these guys are on a mission. And then when the Tennessee game, I called all four games, the Tennessee game, It was 40,000, 40,000 Tennessee fans.

They were convinced they were going to win. And Ohio State just dominated the game. And I think when talking to James Lernitus and a lot of players, when they came out and saw all that orange, after all the noise on social media about Fire Rhine Day, they were kind of like, F, everybody. And I knew that was like lighting a fuse. And then they went, Tennessee.

I called everything. Tennessee, Oregon, Texas in Dallas, and then the championship game against Notre Dame. And it was just, I think it was for me, I tried so hard to be impartial. I try so hard to be just objective and fair. It's almost like the culmination of just a release because you're looking at confetti coming down and you're seeing all that go on with these players who had everybody against them and they had their moment. I was just happy.

It was, what a story for them. And they should write a movie script on really that story. So I think it was that. My son, he had heart failure. You almost faced a heart transplant. That being a part of it, looking down seeing him, you know, just all kinds of stuff that was going on. And it was just like all of that at once. And Scott Pelt's like, Herbie, what are you feeling?

And I'm just like, so it was, it was really cool. It'll be a great. I've done this 29 years. That'll be one of my favorite memories. Just seeing Ryan Day, just his family. just how happy they were. It was cool. It was good. It was a real human moment, man. I think it brought a lot of people close to you.

And it's actually been kind of a weird year for you with Ohio State fans. You mentioned the lunatic fringe, which has been repeated a lot. And now, you know, they come back and win it and you feel like this emotion. How do you feel through that? Like after you mentioned some of the fans, there may be some in this room that are part of the lunatic fringe, Kurt. I don't know. I mean, how do you feel about that? Oh, I think Fowler said something about during the game.

The game was pretty much over. They were up by whatever it was, 20 or 30 points. And he said, is this going to be enough to make the masses come back and get back in the corner of Brian and Dan? I said, I mean, you're asking a guy to try to think for the lunatic friend. I said, I have no idea what they think. So that's what it kind of took off. But I've always felt that there's 90% of Ohio State fans that, Whether they win or they lose, they're proud of them.

And this, by the way, this isn't an Ohio state thing. This is every fan base. There's a guy we here loves Florida. I'm sure there's Notre Dame, Michigan. Roll Tides here. Every fan base has that 10% that we're all embarrassed of. You know, and they do. It might be more than that.

I don't know. I'm just being honest. They are crazy. Nobody thinks they're part of that 10% though. No. I'm a Reds Ludetic fringe fan. I've seen your tweets about the Reds. I have a strong thing and then I'm like delete, delete, delete.

I'm a psychotic Reds fan. They won 6-4 tonight, so they're gonna have a winning, it was good. They're actually gonna have a winning nine-game road trip, which for us is monumental. I mean, that's monumental. You figure it out? I think so.

I mean, how am I supposed to work with this? This is what I get. I mean Are you kidding me? I mean, look. So I'm a lunatic friend member myself, so I get it, I understand it. We all come from a good place, but when things

don't go well, it's like here we go again, you know, kind of thing. So I understand it's a motion. But it's not Ohio, it's Michigan, it has it. Everybody has it. I just think when you do my job and you're trying to be kind of

even and, the voice of reason and try to be the kind of the conscious of the sport. It's when you take bullets all the time, you just, it's almost like when the season starts in September, you're, you're, you know, you have an ability to kind of withstand and then it just kind of keeps going and going and going. And by late October, you're just like, you're ready to swing, you know, and so you have to be careful of engaging. I love to engage on social media, but I don't want to say something rude and, and be disrespectful so i i'm better off just avoiding it because um it's so easy to just tell people to f off you know just like they're just because they're just so rude um so i just what i do is i mute

them or i block them and just kind of move on you you just mentioned uh you know we all come from somewhere sdp said that that night so like it again humanized you you also come from here we see as fellow centerville football players here head coach brand allery new head coach john puckett A lot of the boys here. You know, we both were lucky enough to play for the legendary Bob Gregg and Ron Allery. And we could talk about that for two and a half hours, I know. What's your memory of playing for those two? Oh, my God.

How do they impact your life? I would say you learn. Coach Alari was always taking notes. Always the first guy there. Always the most prepared person. And he injected confidence in us that we knew we were the most prepared, most in shape, most resilient team every Friday night. And the cool thing about that, and I'd love to hear you talk about this,

is that is portable for the rest of your life. You can take what you learned and those formative years and do that for the rest of your life. Be resilient. I mean, as I said, you're the most prepared guy in all of sports and all broadcasting, all the Emmys or whatever. But to me, I have to believe that some of that stem from Bob Gregg and Ron Allery. I think that's why I'm such an advocate for high school football because of my own experience.

Yeah. Because it's not just about trying to get a scholarship and going on and trying to get to the NFL. It's about what these guys are doing. I don't know if you still do it, but when I was going through, we would get up in the summer at five in the morning. I mean, it was still dark out. And, you know, your buddies that didn't play football, they're at a party. They're probably getting in at five. And you're just getting ready to get up and we'll go work out.

and it's a massive sacrifice. And you don't know if you're going to become a starter or not. Everybody's there. We're all doing it together. And that's why I'm so big on simple old school values like hard work and facing perseverance and facing adversity and just getting knocked down and getting back up and loving your teammates and not getting caught up in your own accolades.

I mean, I started probably like you. I started to get a little bit of run, was I think the Journal of Harold or the Dayton Daily News, be in the paper, be on Channel 7, Omar Williams, Channel 2. And Bob Gregg would be like, yeah, Mr. Hollywood. Here he comes. He's a golden boy, here. Yeah, the Golden Boy.

And I'm like, I'm not the Goldenmore. Like, I want no attention. And that's why, you know, I, to this day, I hate attention. Like, if I walk into a room, my goal was to get from A to B as quiet as I can. Like, like, I appreciate it. How does that guy choose to go be on TV for a little? I know.

I love what I do doing, you know, being recognized is just kind of part of it. But I think it goes back to Bob Gregg and Ron Alrey, just, they didn't tear your knees out, but they just made sure as a 16, 17, 18 year old that you knew this ain't about you. Right. It's about us. And it just, I don't know, it's one of those things that, on game day, on everything I do, It's those values. I'm sure you do the same thing.

So like I'm doing Amazon with Al Michaels and I'm doing Game Day and I'm doing Saturday Night Football with Chris Fowler. I mean, these are three behemists in my industry. And most people have one and it takes everything you have to do that one. And so I go right back to Bob Gregg and Ron Allrey and that program.

That's how I think what these guys are going through It's not about social media. It's not about, you know, what star are you? It's about the values you learn and how it's going to impact you down your life. And maybe it's hard to see that, but you and I see it when you get out. So Bob Greg and Ron Alrey and all those guys, they impacted just thousands of kids that didn't go on to play college football. They normalized really hard work and being very prepared and being able to bounce back when it doesn't go your way. They normalized that.

So now when you go out into the world and what just normalize that, you know, for you is actually not normal for everybody else. Yeah. That's the thing I'm most great for. That's great is the fact that like, that's all you know. This is what we do. And that's what I want to ask you about like, can you actually walk through a week in season? I know Ali probably like, oh God, I don't see them, but like walk through a week because you have to prepare for three behemoths, as you said.

Thursday night with the legendary Al Michaels, NFL games, different sport than college, then Saturday game day, which is the show to watch to get ready. And then you go do the game Saturday night. So what's your prep process like throughout the week? It's just, you know, my four boys, I've won still at the house. He's about to leave. So you try to balance out family with your job, like everybody in this room. Those four months are the toughest just because every minute, when I didn't do NFL,

Sunday was like a unplugged day, collapse on the couch after the week of game day and the Saturday night game and just watch the NFL, but really maybe watch the Bengals. and then really dial in on the Sunday night game and then watch highlights of the other games. And now if I'm doing Chargers, Raiders, next week, and the Chargers are playing the Broncos and the Raiders are playing the Dolphins, I'm sitting there on Sunday off of a couple hours of sleep

dialed in to those games, you know? And so it starts on Sunday, your week of prep, and then by the time you wake up on Monday, you guys ever have those weeks where you wake up Monday at 7.30 or 8, and you're behind. That's kind of where I start every single week. I wake up and I'm just like, I'm behind. And it's just kind of a sprint.

It's like if you get on a treadmill, you guys ever get on a treadmill and you can walk in 3.5 or 3.8 or 4, or you could sprint at 10 or 11 or 12. I feel like I'm on a treadmill in 11 for like four months. And then it's funny. And then on January 21st, I don't ease it down to 7 to sit. I go from 11 to zero. Like it just stops for eight months.

And then I take him for a walk with all his other guys. And I'd love to go to the woods with these guys. But yeah, my normal week is just, if I'm awake and Ali or the boys don't have something going on, I'm on the phone with the producer. I'm on the phone with the quarterback. I'm talking to a coach. It's really just non-stop. The hard part is juggling Al Michaels Thursday night, all those notes.

Because we do a Zoom. If we're doing the Chiefs and they're on the road, we got Andy Reid for 20 minutes. You got Patrick Mahomes for 20 or 30 minutes. Their defense alignment, maybe Chris Jones for 20 or 30 minutes. And then you do, it's really hard to explain. It's just nonstop preparation because my thing is I'm not a guy that was a Heisman winner. You know, when I first started a game day in 96, I could choose to be embarrassed of who I was on that. national TV or choose to have a bit of a chip on my shoulder.

I was kind of a chip on my shoulder guy my whole life. So I chose instead of like when I started in 1996 on college game day, unless you were a Big Ten fan, you had no idea who I was. So my idea of like trying to build my brand was they're going to know me from my work ethic. They're going to know me like, damn, I don't know who that dude is, but he seems to know what he's talking about. Like that was my goal. And to this day, I mean, I still try to be the guy that's like,

like you said, the most prepared. So if I'm talking Kansas State one segment, Missouri, UCLA, Texas, Florida State, like whoever we're talking about, I wanna try to be overly prepared because the conversation on game day could go anywhere. They give you an idea of where it might go, but Desmond might say something

and I'm like, all of a sudden I'm gonna react to that or Nick Saban might say something, I gotta react to that. And if you're not prepared, you don't know where it's going, and you don't know how to have information, to have credible comments. So I prepare 100% and I use 20% for all three shows.

So the amount of hours that takes for me to feel confident, and again, I didn't even go to an NFL camp. And here I am calling NFL games as the expert game analyst. And so I'm working with freaking Al Michaels. You know, so like, that was a behemoths, using that word behemoth again, that was a big step for me in my career to be confident. But luckily, it was late in my career. I'd accomplish some things.

And Al looked at me as an equal to him. And I looked at him like, wow. And I've worked with Mike Tarrico. My four people that I've called games with are Mike Tariko, Brent Musburger, Chris Fowler, and Al Michaels. Those are the only four people I've ever called games with in my entire career. So by the time I got to Al, I'd been with Mike Tarrico, I'd been with Brent Musburger, Chris Fowler. So it felt like even though I was intimidated because it's a step up to the NFL and it's Al Michaels,

I still felt with the work ethic, I'm going to be okay. I think a phrase that's out there now that's more common is imposter syndrome. people a little nervous about like, do I belong? It's hard to believe that you would ever feel like, but do you, did you for the first night on Amazon, the first NFL game? Do you ever fit that sense? Like, I don't know. I'm deferential by nature. Yeah.

So I am very, I don't deserve your respect in my brain until you earn it. Yeah. Maybe that's not how they view it, but that's how I view it. So in the NFL, I was super, like the first game I called. college game I walk out he's with me Ben used to be with me we just not to be cocky but I know the boundaries I know where I can go in the pregame teams are warming up balls are flying through the air you know if Ali's with me I'll say come on out you know it's just a very comfortable setting for me NFL I'm calling the

first game I think it oh my gosh it was a Chargers Chiefs in Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl the year before and I have no idea how I I'm going to be accepted and I'm on the field pregame. I don't know I allowed to I'm standing on the sidelines and I'm like with my my spotter I'm like I don't know we allowed to go the teams teams are warming up but Holmes is right over there Justin Herbert's over there and I'm like we'd like allowed to go out there and say hi I mean there's other people out there so I just kind of first few weeks I just kind of stayed over here and waited and then Mahomes came over this was cool about my job but Holmes comes over to jog in and he sees me

He's like, what's up? It's almost like I'm that uncle or relative that they haven't seen in a while because they look at me like I'm college football. Yeah. And they miss college football. So they see me, they're like, oh, my dad, and what's up? You know, and it's, that really helped me be like, oh, shit. Like, they're cool here.

Like, I belong in the arena. That probably helped me as much as anything is just them making me feel like, you know, you're part of this. Yeah. And now I've done it for three years, so now it's very different now than where it was in that first year. We're going to open up in a second. I'll ask one more question, and then Terry, I think we'll open it up for you guys to ask some questions. So while you're gathering, I'll go one more.

So, Kirk, I confirmed this, and I was rereading your book this morning, and this is the guy, for those who haven't read it yet, you should, by the way, but for those who haven't, that decided to take a zero in a public or a English class when you had to give a speech, right? take a zero out of a 25% of your grade and you just gave it up because you were too afraid to give a speech in front of the class this got Kirk curb street really i need to hear more about this yeah my my senior year i did not give i my name came up miss knighthart if she's here she was the teacher she asked me to give it was my turn to give a speech and i just said i'm i'm good and she said And she said, you're good. And I said, yeah, I'm good.

And she said, it's 25% of your final grade. And I said, okay, like, I'm not doing it. And she's like, Kirk, you really need to do it. And I said, I was like, now you're making it worse because now I'm getting like attention. Just like, please move on. So I got a zero on that. And I blame it on my ninth grade year when I was, I don't know, Chit Casano is still here. Anybody in my class, they'll remember this name.

You'll remember this name. There was a girl, Centerville has very pretty girls. When you were in high school, in ninth grade, there was a girl named Lail Ustation, Hustasian. And I hope she's not here, but I stood. It was my turn to give a speech in ninth grade. And I was like, oh, okay, I'm not comfortable, but I guess I got to do it. So I stumbled up to the front of the class, and I had some no cards, and I run hot.

Like normal temperatures, what, 98, 6? I run at like 100, just in general. So I'm the guy when it's February, windows open, air condition on, if college game days at Baton Rouge, it's 100, I got air conditioning things blow. I'm just always hot, I'm hot right now. It's just the way I am.

And I walk up to the front of the room, and I'm sweating, and I start to talk, and my face gets really red, because I just, that's what happens when you get embarrassed, and my face turns red. She's sitting right here, and in the middle of my speech, she goes, oh my gosh, look how red his face is.

And I officially retired from speeches that moment. I was just like... What is she thinking now? I don't know, I was like, I will never, I'll never do that rest of my life. And to this day, if Terry would have asked me to stand up here and give a speech for 20 minutes, I would have been like, I'm good. I was like, is it moderated?

Ryan can maybe come in? I'm like, I'm in. So, she's just, she would have asked me. He scarred me when I was 14 years old to this day. I think you turned out all right. Terry, do we want to open it up? Oh, you go first. Kirk, I would love for you to tell everybody how the book came into existence.

When that process was, I don't publish your top team. Yeah. Well, I've been asked over the years to write a book by different authors that it approached me, different ideas. And then when COVID hit, Gene Wojahowski, who is was a reporter on college game day. He asked me, he writes books. And he said, I really love to write a book with you.

We have some time down. This might be a good time for you to reflect. Would you consider? I said, let me think about it. The world was, as we all remember, everything was closed down. And we really didn't know what was going on. And after thinking about it for a few weeks, I decided to take him up on it.

And he wanted to just kind of tell. my story of, you know, my life going back to when I was a kid with my mom, my sister, my brother, my dad, and just kind of all the way through, some of the obstacles we faced. And I think what he wanted me to do was get examples to show people, you know, the appearance that you give on air versus what your life was like is very different. And I think people would love to hear some of this stuff that you had to go through in order to get to where you are. And so he said the only thing is you got to be comfortable with being vulnerable. Like we really have to open up some topics that you probably haven't thought about,

you know, in 30, 40 years. So I said, okay, I would do it, but I don't think I really understood as we went way back and he talked with my mom, he talked with my sister, he found a lot of stories out. So by the time he got to me and he came to my house for, I don't know, four or five days, By the time he got to me, he was bringing things up that my mom maybe shared with him or my sister shared with him going way back You know my parents divorced when I was about I think maybe eight or nine years old and it was pretty Traumatic experience for for our family and I think a lot of people You know whether there are adults going through divorce or kids you're worried about your kids

I just opened up and he just saying I I opened up and talked about that I I talked about my time at Ohio State and I I talked about my time at Ohio State and and you know I came out as if they did stars back then whatever I mean I would have been a you know a five-star guy that was supposed to walk in and play right away and I didn't you know and I opened up about falling flat on my face and what that experience was like and the whole point was just trying to reach people that maybe we're going through hard times you know my wife and I when we had our our twins they were our first boys they were born at two pounds you know each at 28 weeks so I could take my ring I remember taking my

going down their foot all the way up to their hip bone and their skin was transparent you could see their organs and so there are people that that had that spend time in the NICU you know that I didn't I know you hear about NICU and you think oh my gosh and then your kids are in the NICU and you're they're holding on fighting for their lives and you go through it I thought man to maybe share that experience maybe that'll help you know people out there there so anyway we we had a bunch of stuff you know the Ohio State stuff I talked about I went to a sports psychologist when no one did that.

And I remember going in to see him. He changed my career. And I remember walking into his office, like, making sure none of my boys or nobody saw me going in there and they're like clown on me that I'm going to see a sports psychotic. That was 1991, 1990-91. And so I thought, man, I didn't even think. I guess I do have a few stories that are pretty relatable, you know.

And so we got together and we talked a lot. I don't know. You said you've read it. It's not a how-to book at all. It's more of this is my experiences. This is what I've been through and just sharing those. I get huge props for how vulnerable are you got. I appreciate it.

As you said before we're getting ready for this, like, hey, do the juicy stuff. That's better than just the boring stuff. But you did that in your book and that's scary. And people are going to judge you and they may judge you and you're just putting yourself out there. And I think that's really hard to do. But that makes it a better book because it's more real, right?

It's actually what happened. Yeah. Yeah. And I had to talk about Ohio State coaches. You know, the only people that I had to be honest, where it was uncomfortable were a couple Ohio State coaches and a guy I worked with in broadcasting. And I said, are you going to edit this?

Am I going to be able to read this? He said, yeah, of course. So I told him everything, and then I read it. And I was like, no, we can't say that. And then he went back, tweaked it a little bit. And then I read it again. I was like, oh my God, I just don't feel. And he's like, listen, part of writing a book

is being honest. If you're not honest, then it's not, the reader is going to sense that. I'll tell you the hardest part was I did if you've not read it or I ended up doing the book on audio. So I had to go through that and just to read the word. and go through it you know it it was number one challenging to do that and pretty pretty emotional to read that story out loud yeah so yeah it was it was a good

experience for sure Terry my name is Stephanie Liddle and you were talking about Paul Rory which he ended up going to Springboro and he coached our child our son who's now going to be a junior very instrumental in his life very impactful. My question is with the NFL draft beyond the Sanders situation, were there any other surprises for you that you was kind of shocking? Oh man, I would say I would say I as a Bengals fan I was surprised they didn't get more offensive linemen to protect Joe Burrow. I did I mean I did like that they addressed the defense because I mean that that was the that was a concern obviously last year but I don't I don't know and and the Sanders stuff I

mean that was that was kind of crazy for a lot of people yeah that was that was wild we'll see how that you know they also drafted Dylan Gabriel who I'm huge fan of a little short but quick decision-maker very accurate you know if you watch the Ohio if you're only experienced at Dylan Gabriel was the Ohio State game. It was almost like the field was like that. Ohio State was on a role. If you remember Dylan Gabriel and Eugene, he played pretty well. He's very accurate. He can move around. He's just short. I mean, if he were six two, everyone would be in probably putting him in the first round. He played at UCF. That's the world we're in. UCF, Oklahoma, and Oregon.

Started at all three places, which is really strange. I mean, sometimes the portal, I think he's looking. Honestly, I think he's looking for squirrels. There he comes. But no, there's really, this just wasn't one of those years where there were so many big names that you were surprised other than Shadour Sanders. So nothing really, I'd have to go back to give you a great answer,

but nothing stood out to me. It was great to be there. I was there first round Thursday night. Nick Save and me, Des, and Reese Davis did it on ABC. We had a blast. We do it very differently. The guy gets drafted, we celebrate the player, we talk to his mom, we talk to his sister,

we show you a story about maybe some kind of difficult thing in his career that he had to overcome. We don't really break down, you know, all they need this or they need that. It's really more about the players. Kind of a college game day spin on the draft is what we do on ABC. And we had a blast, so it was cool. Green Bay is such a great town. You would not believe where Lambo Field is, right? I mean, it's in the middle, it's like a village.

You know, it's just like neighborhood, Lambo. It'd be like Lambo Field being right over there. It's the wildest thing where most of these NFL stadiums are in a huge downtown. It's just in a, it's like in a little suburb. It's cool. Good question. Thank you so much. Hi, Kirk.

Being a lifelong college football fan, it feels like with NIL and the recent decision that they're going to be able to pay them from the school. that we're in a different sport almost. What's your take on that? I'm a traditionalist, so all this was difficult to digest. But I look at it like I'm not retiring, so I can put my head in the sand and just say, this isn't bright, this isn't fair, or I can try to get my arms around it,

try to be understanding, which I've done. I'm not a fan of collectives. I'm not a fan of pay for play. I'm not a fan of going and buying a player to bring him to your school. Think that's stupid? I don't think it's right or healthy or sustainable. I am a fan of if Jeremiah Smith becomes Jeremiah Smith after he gets there and becomes maybe the biggest name in the sport and he can go make? Not because it's, hey, here, here's whatever you need.

Pepsi wants to do something within whoever. If he can make money in marketing, which is name, image, and likeness, it's marketing. So if he can create money for himself, I think we've all gotten to a point where that makes sense. But not a guy is over at Bowling Green and he's an All-American. And LSU needs a left guard and they're just like, how much is it take? A lot of these guys, these five stars, they're taking, to me, they're looking at their lives like this and not looking at it 40 years down the road. They're just looking at it right here.

And they have, whether it's parents or agents, they're just trying to get as much as they can And going back to some of the life lessons I learned from Bob Gregg and Ron Ulrey in this program here, sometimes that might be the right answer. Joe Burrow left Ohio State. He wasn't going to get an opportunity. Made sense for him. Wayne Haskins went ahead of him after J.T. Barrett left. It worked out great for him.

There's plenty of examples where it works. I just don't think the first sign of adversity you should leave. I think you have to fight through that adversity. I just don't believe in leaving. your teammates. It's so foreign to me that that's even in play. So that part of it's really difficult. So I don't want to say I don't believe in NIO. I don't believe in Transfer Portal because I think sometimes it applies. But I just don't, I think if you take a coach, these coaches are a little bit hesitant on how hard they're going to be on these guys because they don't want to believe.

Imagine being a coach and you're worried about is this guy going to leave if I really do what I want to do with it. And so that's a concern for me. The whole thing I think, where we're going and hopefully two or three years, hopefully it's different from right now. Like the NFL, there are rules, right? There's free agency. Like if Brock Purdy, who makes $850,000 in a middle of a Super Bowl run, decides at week eight, I don't want to play anymore. I'm a pro bowler. You're only paying me $850. I'm worth $50 million. Why am I going to play? Either do you? get my contract right or I'm not playing next week against Philly. You imagine if that happened?

That's what college football players are doing. Complete BS. The players went from our era. You had no say to now they have all the say, all the say. So to put it in our perspective as parents, if you have kids, imagine if your kids were, I don't know, 12 years old, and they're like, hey, I need keys to the car. And you're like, I'm your parent.

You can't drive. You're 12. And the kid's like, oh, really? Give me the keys. Or I'm going, so I'm going to go live somewhere else. And you're like, what? No, no, no. And the kid has all the power.

You have no power. No, please don't leave. Don't leave. Does that make sense? That's what college football is right now. The 12-year-olds are deciding what they want to do. And you're the parent going, okay, whatever you say. It's like the world is upside down right now.

when it comes to that aspect of it. What's crazy is you still turn a college football game on in Saturday. The marching bands come out, the uniforms come out, and we still go crazy. So as much as they're trying to kill the sport, I don't know if it's ever been more popular. So what I think the players are underestimating is what we all digest.

They're great players, but I hate to say this, they're a dime a dozen. Like you're on a conveyor belt as a player. There's other players coming right behind you. As long as that Ohio State uniform is in play, or that Michigan, or that Notre Dame fight song, or that U.S., that's all fans care about. So they're important, but they're not,

they don't deserve all the say like they have right now. They need to learn some things and go through some tough times because it's for their own good when they get older and become employees. Whether it's the NFL or in the real world, they become husbands, they become fathers. This is hurting them long term, not helping them. So they got to fix it. And by the way, who fixes it?

The NCAA doesn't fix it. The conference commissioners are supposed to be in charge, but Greg Sankey's worried about his constituents in the SEC. Tony Petiti's worried about the Big Ten. No one's worried about the global view of the sport. They're worried about their region. So how the heck are we going to fix this? Who's in charge?

That's probably my biggest concern is we're coming up with all these great ideas, but who do we present them to? No one's the boss. And everyone's afraid to be the boss because they're afraid in litigation. Because if you stand up to a player and his agent, you get sued. Or you're threatened to get sued. So then you go, okay, go back to the 12, you're 12 years old. Do you want to drive? Go drive.

That's where we are. Hey, Kirk, question for you. And first of all, thanks for not for getting where you came from. We're all real proud.

Thank you. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, buddy. I need to start a line, and I want to ask you, I know this is Coach Corso's last, who's going to do one more show.

I know you have a special relationship with him. Could you share some of that and then also maybe your favorite the Corses store? Man, I would love to pull up my, I don't know if you can pull up my favorite Lee Corso story, but if you Google Lee Corso F-Bomb, it would probably

be lying. It's a great video. I don't know if your team can pull that up, that would be priceless. So Lee Corso is 89 years old. He'll be 90 August 7th. Here's what's crazy is he came back. He did me a favor. I don't know if you guys still do the Sunny Young Award. We used to do something called the Sunny Younger Award at Centerville. at Centerville. It was a fundraiser. Sonny Under was a former Centerville Elk and he was in Vietnam, lost his life. And I guess Bob Gregg,

or the the, the, the football players, came up years ago, maybe in the 70s with a fundraiser. So anyway, when I started to work at ESPN, probably right around when you were planned, we decided to try to bring whoever it might be. I had Mike Tariko come back with me one year. I had Chris Fowler. I mean, of course, I had Mike Vrable. We just, Every year we were trying to like, what should we do this year kind of thing. We kept trying to raise the bar. Well, one year, Corso came back, did an amazing job, and a week later, he had a stroke and really never, has never really fully recovered.

And I think our relationship before was me looking at him and him having his arm around me, not just on air, but I think where our relationship really changed was off air. When I got married, I would ask him questions. We'd be in the back of a car going to a photo shoot. I didn't know him that well, but he was a really good listener, so I would just bring up stuff. And I always call him like Yoda or like Don Corleone. He's kind of petting a cat as you tell him a story.

He's this Italian, big Italian presence. And here I am just like, here's my thing this time. And he just is like listening to me. But he's really listening. Picture Don Corleone, you know, just like listening. And then he would say like two sentences and I'd be like, oh, okay, all right. And I would just, so time after time he would do that. I remember my kids, you know, my kids like to play with lingoes.

You know, I'm throwing them wall and they, you know, are they going to play ball? And it's like, play the Legos. Play the Legos with it. They want to play ligos, play Legos. You know, he's like, he's like, he goes, you're building a new house? Good for you. That's great. He goes, have you decided what you're going to do in the rooms?

I was like, you know, he's like, whatever Allison says. says, you just go, okay, sounds good. He goes, she wants purple pillows? Purple pillows, okay, sounds good. All you do is nod your head. So, anyway, there were just millions of those kind of stories over the year. So when you talk about life

with somebody, it changes from just sitting next to him and working. So our on-air relationship really changed. He was my mentor. I always watched him. He's putting the head gear on, and I'm, like, I'm just sitting there watching, learning how he does things without him.

really coaching me I'm just watching and I think after the stroke they didn't know if he'd ever come back because he couldn't speak after the stroke he slowly got his words back and I just it wasn't like we had a discussion I'd just be sitting next to him and he'd get caught on a word and I would just try to subtly like interrupt him in a funny way or just try to whatever I could do to just kind of just quietly just kind of give him a little nudge or just a little just a little crutch for him to kind of gather himself and just finish his thought. And I didn't really think anything of it.

I think you'd probably done the same thing. It's just what you do. And I think over time, that was 15 years ago. So imagine maybe some of you either have been through a stroke or you know people. So his cognitive thinking at 89 is firing. I mean, he knows everything. He's taking his words out. So you younger guys, you don't realize what Lee Corso was.

Lee Corso was hot takes before we knew what hot takes were. He was the guy that said something, and everyone was like, oh, my God, I can't believe he just said that. Like, he was that guy without trying to be that guy. He is an icon in our industry. I was so fortunate to sit next to him and watch him and learn so much from him and just build a relationship over time. It didn't happen overnight. I mean, this is my 29th year, my 30th year this year on the show. and we just build a rapport and a love for one another.

But our roles changed after the stroke. I tried to take care of him. After all those years, he took care of me. And the last few years have been tough. You know, Nick Saving came on, the show. Pat McAfee now is on the show. Like the vibe of the show from when I started with Chris Fowler, young Lee Corso, myself, Chris Felica, Tom Rinaldi,

Gene Wojahowski, eventually Desmond came on, David Pollock. Like, you know, all those people are gone with the exception of Desmond. So I'm like the last person that I started with on the show. So the vibe is different. Doesn't mean it's better or worse, it's just different. And Lee decided that he's going to do one more show. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's Ohio State, Texas, because he started with the brutus headgear that Ali helped get him to wear that first time.

And it would be the last time. The challenge there is that is currently a noon kick. As much as you guys don't like those noon kicks, which would be great for this moment. 100,000 people in that stadium, he comes out to do his last pick, puts the headgear on, 100,000 people could be symbolic of the nation showing their love for him.

I think that would be so fitting to end his run like that. I'm hoping it stays at a Saturday noon. I think Ohio State's trying to get it to be moved a night game so I have no idea how that'll play out but I think our hope is that it's in Columbus and it would be just an awesome awesome moment but he's my guy loving the death and he's and I'll tell you when he retired he doesn't he doesn't have a computer like he doesn't forget social media he has a flip phone he knows nothing other than what his family or I tell him and I reached out to him and I was like he still faxes you know from his office yeah

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah, he has no idea what's happening. Which, by the way. It's kind of nice. I may graduate to that. But I had to reach out to him after he retired.

It went public a couple weeks ago. And I just, I knew he probably hear from him. He has four kids. I knew he'd probably hear from them and I said, I had to call him and just say, how are you? You're doing all right. You got to know what's going on out here. I mean, it was just an avalanche of love. Like, you guys know in social media, it's very rare to have a heart.

it's very rare to have 100% positivity about something. It was 100%. And I was just like, man, they are people. I just want you to know, they love you. You know, it's like, you need to know that. And he's just like, you know, he always changes subject. I appreciate it. And then we talked about something else for about 15 or 20 minutes.

And then I said, okay, man, I'll talk to you. I love you, but to take care. And he goes, hey, tell everybody I appreciate that. It means a lot to me that they did that. And I was like, I'll let them know. So I sent out a tweet. letting them know that people love them and they're thinking about him. So that's going to be a rough show to get through that last show.

My name is Jeff Tranoskis, representing Tenth here. Oh, H. Hi. Thank you. Herbie, I appreciate that last drive against Michigan. I was in the stadium. Papa Joe's was rocking that night. So I was there.

Papa Joe's. What a spot. Yeah. Yeah, that was... High energy, Park Alley. Oh, yeah, high energy. The Glority. Mr. Bustards or whatever.

Yeah. It's just not the same anymore. It's not. It's fancy. It's... It's nice and clean. Trunk and stooper guys right here. But, you know, that was our...

That was South Campus for us with a rope. Oh, it's so good. I'm going to go back to when a couple of these gentlemen have asked you, Rick Fraghe's to the state of college football. Obviously, uh, conference realignment, it seems like the Big Ten in the SEC and then maybe everybody else. You know, what is the thought process that you have with regards to that? I mean, plus the Tranexor Portal, you got guys playing football, basketball for six or seven years.

I'm just wondering, you know, and then you got Coach Saban, right? Legendary coach, I mean, when you guys are back channels and stuff like that, was that a motivation to retire? was because the landscape, he just doesn't play that way, which I appreciate the work ethic you earn. I'm just interested to hear what you guys do when the cameras are off and you're actually honest with each other and you don't have social media or whatever. You know, what's the state with Coach Sabin and, you know, Coach Kay stepped away,

Coach Williams and other sports or whatever. You know, the landscape is just to the point where, shoot, I kind of want to go back to college if I ask. But I'm interested to hear your take on that, so I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate the question. How fun is that, though? I mean, it's tough during the time,

but to go from 12 to eventually 10 and 8, and then into that starting lineup. I mean, it's great that you must have played for a great coach to recognize that you're working, you earn that. Instead of just labeling you, you're just kind of a grunt. He saw that, so that's great that he did that. And by the way, that impacted you the rest of your life. And that's what I'm talking about.

We're taking that away. We're not. Some of the advisors are taken that away, I think, from some of these guys. Yeah, Coach Savin is very misunderstood because he was the head coach of Alabama when they won all their games. I know Coach Saving incredibly well.

That's one of the cool things about my job is getting to know these coaches. And he was a guy that early in his career at Michigan State, he and I, there we go, Sparty. We got everybody here, we got Sparty here. But he and I go all the way after Michigan State. And he and I would have very, very candid conversations. He knew he could trust me and he could be open with me going way back to that era

all the way through LSU, beginning of Alabama. And so he and I talked very, very honest with one another. He got out. A lot of it had to do with just not, I mean, he related to players for a long time. But I think he got to a point with all the changes at the stage of his career with all he had accomplished. Not because, well, we were cheating and now everyone's cheating. This isn't, that's like bullshit social media stuff that's not real. That's not why he got out.

He got out because he couldn't do what he did. If you ever go to a practice of Nick Saven, it is hard. Like it is, if you're thinking about quitting and you go to a Tuesday or Wednesday practice, you're probably going to quit because he's going to attack you and really test you. And the guys that are there to get better, they get through it to become great players. and the guys that don't, they end up leaving. And I think it became more and more apparent. He was struggling to relate to the way he likes to coach.

And so I think he just thought it was the right time. By the way, he'd been calling me for the last three or four years prior to that, like, hey, what do you think about college game day? And I was like, hey, you'd be great. I think you'd be great. I think you'd be a natural. And so we've been talking after every season, He would call me and talk to me about him,

think I might do it and what's see. So it's really been trending to a direction, but I think when you get to that stage in your career and you accomplish so much, I think you wake up one day. I don't think you have a plan. I think you just wake up one day maybe and say, I think that's it. I don't have what I used to have.

I think I need to, for my players' sake, I need to get out. And I think that's kind of what hit him. He's more concerned. You talk about a guy that loves college football. and wants to get it right. I don't think he sleeps at night because of the state of college football.

He, if anybody can save it, it's him. Like, he's like, he's trying his everything he can to fix the sport. And still in a way to help players, but not chaos. And so I don't know if that'll ever happen. Whatever he says, I just like, shake his hand, turn him around, keep going, buddy. You can do it.

You can do it. If anybody gives us any hope, it's him. So pray at night for Nick Saven to try to figure out, as much as you may hate him, pray at night for Nick Saban to fix where we are currently because he really does. He cares about the coaches, cares about the sport, cares about the players. His heart is in the right spot. Always has been. He is another guy I'm lucky to work with now, but just lucky to come.

I used to call him after he'd win a championship, and I'm just like, how do you get your guys not to talk to the other team? Like all these other teams, they'll catch a five-yard out, and the DB will make a play, and they get up and talk all kinds of junk. Alabama, they just hit you into the ground and drive you into the ground, and then they get back in a huddle. And he's like, it's simple. He goes, when we're in practice, he goes, I don't do that on Saturday. He goes, we're in practice, and a guy does that, he doesn't ever do it. it again. He goes, I tell them over and over we are not here to talk to the other team. You can talk to your own team, but if I ever catch you talking to the other team,

you're done. And they're just like, yes sir. So maybe winning all those championships and the way he delivers a message, I'm guessing they don't want to test him. But I always appreciated the way Alabama carried themselves and not only beat you, but they beat you in like old school way. So he is a great man, great for the sport, great for college, game day but he is frustrated with where we are as much as anybody and with his connections I'm hopeful that he'll he'll be able to try to get something done great we had a question my name was Josh Coveman I'm a big mental health advocate so I wanted both of you if it's okay with your busy schedules and how successful you are in your chosen field what do you all do

currently for your mental health and how do you balance that with as busy as you all are It's a great question. For me, it's my faith. You know, I get tested a lot. And I don't want to get involved in politics anyway. But there was an incident that really touched me. And I apologize if I offend anybody. But there was, we have twins.

And there were twins down in, I think it was Frisco, Texas, and Attract Me. And one of them got, and I don't know the deal of what happened. One of them had attract me, got stabbed by another guy in the heart and died right in front of his twin. And I just thought, I put myself in the shoes of that dad when I heard that story. And then I just happened to hear him speak. And the world we live in today, I thought, oh, my gosh. Like, he's going to be really emotional and go after this guy. And he was upset and emotional about losing his son, but he almost was like,

praying for the other guy. Like he forgave the other guy. And I was like, that's like a whole different level of your faith being tested. Because I feel like my faith really gets tested a lot when people

come at me on social media. I didn't get into this line of work to, I just have, I'm really prepared and I give opinions. That's it. That's the end of the story. And I don't have an agenda. I don't have, I'm not smart enough to do some of the stuff that people say but when it happens time after time

you can get really resentful and it can really affect you so my answer is a lot of times delete the app and that's not healthy right that's like I'm putting a band-aid on something so I've just found daily devotional prayer and really trying to connect helps me like helps me get to a point where I'm like, okay, I need to work on me to be able to get to that point where that dad is. You know what I mean? So it's that and then just being, having very honest conversation with family and friends and open it up. I'm a guy that likes to have conversation. I like to open my heart out with the right people.

I find that to be very helpful as well. I would also mention that I feel like your dog's for you. Oh. You know, Peter, honestly, got up here. and all the other guys, just such a comfort, especially on the road, I think. That's huge for me. In the woods. Like some people like to be at a beach and like to see a sunset at the beach.

I love the woods. You know, I love my dogs and I'm on a trail and I'm in the woods. That probably as much as anything connects me from a spiritual standpoint to where I need to be. So I take a walk every day. and we're moving back. Our plan all along was to move back. We moved our youngest son up to go to high school, and he's finishing right now.

So that chapter's kind of closing our goal all along was to go back to our home in Nashville. We kept our house, so we're going to go back June 1st, and we're excited about that. One of the things my wife and I talk about we miss is there's a trail that we just love, and we go to every day, and we miss that so much. Yeah, I think there's a lot of, sorry that's a long answer, but there's just a lot there.

I appreciate the question, Josh. Do you have anything? Honestly, I think people don't all get the luxury of voluntary hardship. What I mean by that is we were put through incredibly tough things, I think, at Center of Football. That's why Kirk and I bonded so much and have ever since. But I think you've got to keep doing that stuff. So to me, like you talk about mental health, I think I need to choose to do really hard things every day to prove to myself that I can keep doing hard things so that when

adversity strikes I'm prepared and so I always feel like punishing myself in the gym running lifting reading I've interviewed 630 of the world's most impactful leaders over the past 10 years I wasn't as smart as any of those guys and girls so the prepare and to get ready and to do the hard thing and then do the hard thing and then do the hard thing I just think you've got to do hard things I think you have to voluntarily choose to do the hard things so that when adversity strikes, you're more prepared. When mentally it's tough or, oh, I don't know if I can handle this.

No, I've built evidence for myself. I build evidence for myself every single day because I choose to do hard things. So I think, like, maybe that's not the nice, fuzzy, fun answer because it's hard, but I think it's the right answer. It is for me, at least, to say, like, if I voluntarily choose to punish myself physically and mentally, whatever comes my way, I feel like, you know, I can't predict that, but I have a better chance of getting through it because I've done it before. I do it every day.

And I think, you know, unfortunately, like, gotten lazy. Like, too many people are lazy. Like, we got to choose to do the hard thing on a regular basis. We do that. I like your odds of conquering whatever the thing that you don't want to happen. I like your chances of beating that if you're doing it every day leading up to those moments. And I'll just add for this group, just because I have four sons and I have one as senior in high school. Like this generation, a lot of times they get ridiculed.

I just found that this generation, I can't imagine going through what they go through, whether it's Snapchat and middle school and seeing all the emojis go to a party that you didn't get invited to. You imagine going through that in eighth grade or just everybody in your business and everything online? line. I just think if you're a parent of this age, just being there listening, and you guys having some grace to yourselves because it is really, none of us can relate to what you guys, you know what I'm saying? For sure. Nobody can relate to what you guys are going through. So your coaches, your parents, just being in your corner, helping you get through it. It's one of the best things about team sports, though. Yeah. You got your guys. Like,

you got your guys, and you're lucky to have such good coaches. Like, I know you don't fully realize that right now but god you're gonna you'll realize it as you get older like yeah we were so lucky yeah we were so lucky the coaches these guys care so much about you and what seems every traumatizing for you in 16 or 17 if you have coaches to help you get through or your parents get through it you're gonna realize you're gonna be okay like it's it's like it's probably paralyzing for you to go through it maybe you know people maybe you've gone through some of yourself links but you guys i mean i can't i just again i think all of us look at you and think keep just stays from You know, like for me, if I were your faith, going to church, talking to parents, talking to coaches, but just keep grinding, because it's not easy doing what you guys do.

People are cruel, and you guys are in, you're like in a sewage, you know, just a bunch of crap, and you're somehow trying to find a ladder to get out of it. And that's what a coach or a parent or your boys, that's who they are. They'll get you through it, but it's not easy what you guys are dealing with. And I don't mean just sports. I'm talking social stuff. You get to college football and you play on national TV and you miss a field goal and the game's on the line, you get death threats.

Death threats. That's real. You know, Will Howard, he took a knee against Oregon. He played his ass off at Oregon. He took a knee because he lost a time. And he took death threats. Like, it's just insane that these people have a voice. to get to you and you just got to somehow insulate yourself you know the best you can because it's

brutal i think you have one last question hi kirk julie benoit i'm the senatorial grab by her alum and big thanks to you for sharing your expertise tonight on football big thanks to your sister because she's making the magic happen no doubt yeah thank you've spoken really greatly about all of the important college football things tonight, right? But we are all dying to know what is Peter's favorite treat? I tell you, when I feed my dogs, it's become like a science project. After Ben died, he was 10 years old. And the way, you know, I felt like, you know,

I'd love to see him live another four or five years. And it just happened so sudden from cancer. And the more people I talked to, the more people talked about how cancer, is obviously such a big thing with us, but also for canines and all animals. Because I love dogs so much, I, you know, researching the ingredients and why is this happening?

Actually, I'm doing a, he, not me, I'm with him. We have a three-day Perina shoot, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, because of him, and a lot of it is about what you need to feed your dogs and trying to help dogs out. So he is, you've never seen a dog, attack a bowl of food the way he does. I've never, I've had dogs since my sister brought the first

golden I had back in 1985, a dog named Megan, who was another gym of a dog. I've had a golden in my life since that day moving forward. And this guy, oh, it's his big head or what it is, but he just, he attacks his food, just a sweetheart. They're all different. Their spirits and their energy are all just so different. You know, when Ben passed away and took him to a Texas A&M game and he was limping very, very noticeably after that game like just literally the next day. And so a friend of mine who lives in New York said, hey, I know a holistic doctor, you got to get him over in New Jersey.

This guy works miracles and done it to do so I immediately flew to New Jersey and tried to do everything that I could for about four or five days and just to stay with that point it was too late. And the very, you know, season doesn't stop. So that was on a Thursday. I was calling the Bengals at the Ravens when he died. And I went home for my son's game. I would go home after the Thursday games to get back to see Chase.

And I thought, do I bring a dog out? I mean, he was at the time, like 13 months, never been out in public without all the dogs. Just because when I take him, I take him all, he's never been out solo. So I took him to a Centerville playoff game at Winton Woods. I know they played Winton Woods. And he went, I was like, I had to take him into the game. It was sold out. I took him in, and he was totally chill.

In the game, in the stance. He was just kind of like looking around. And I was headed to LSU, Alabama, in Bat Rouge, which is one of the most hostile environments that the sport has. And I'm like, I'm just going to take him with me, see how it goes if it doesn't work out he can stay on the bus and I took him out in the pregame and first he came on game day and everybody went crazy to meet him and he's all perked up tail he just didn't know what he was doing he's just like hey everybody what's going on

and then I took him out in the field pregame I always take Ben out my son might as well take him out I'm talking loudest music you can think of is on the speakers balls are flying and bouncing players are all over the place players are coming over petting in full uniform and he's just kind of taking it in. He didn't freak out. He didn't do anything. He was just kind of like watching, wagging. And I was like, oh my God, this dude, he's made for this.

And so from that point on, I took him every, I took him every Thursday, stays in a hotel with me, goes to dinner with me, Al Michaels, who's not a big dog guy, Ben, Ben won Owl over, which was great. I should have shared that picture with you, Terry, to put up there. I was like, I don't know about dogs. And I was like, okay, I was like, if you don't like dogs, I won't bring him around. He goes, yeah, and then the next morning, he goes, where's Ben? And I go, I left him up in a room. He told me to, and he goes, he was, I want you to bring him down. And I go, all right, so went back upstairs, got Ben, brought him down.

And Ben's super chill, and Al kind of came over. Kind of looked at, and there's like 50 people in the room. And he's like looking at him and reaches down, touches him. And he's like, huh. And he sits down. We called a game. We're in Chicago. We called a game, the Bears.

We get done about midnight, back to the hotel. We just happen to be across from each other. Never happened before. So we always go back to our room, and then we go down to a restaurant bar for kind of a post game. The studio show, Shirm, Witt, all these guys. We just all get together post game.

And I go, ow. I go, he goes, what is the, can he take it? I go, no, dude. I go, he's trained. He was not going to go to the bathroom. I go, he goes, what do you think he's doing all day? He's been in there five hours. I go, he's probably asleep.

And he goes, no way. And I go, yeah. And I opened the door. He goes, and I went to his room. And I tiptoed, looked around the corner, and Ben was up on the couch in this hotel room, sound asleep. And I go, I knock on his door.

I go, come here, look, come here. And he comes over, he looks, and he goes, holy shit. And he got so excited. He gets his phone out, and he's walking over, and I'm filming Al Michaels filming Ben. And he's like taking video to show his wife, like, look at this dog. He just sleeps in the hotel. And from that point on, I couldn't go anywhere without bringing Ben around Al Michael.

So once that happened when Ben passed, then he warmed up to Peter, too. So it's amazing. I've never, being around Lee Corso and being kind to him and bringing my dogs around, tells you a lot about the human element in this because I've called, whatever it is, 16 national championships, 17 Rose Bowls, I do all these things, and people look at, I think I'll be, I'll be remembered for Lee Corso and my dogs. Like, I don't know if there's anything I can call that will be bigger than those two. But I love doing it.

I love being a part of it. I've got two years left, by the way, on my contract. I just signed a five-year deal with Amazon and ESPN. I've got three down, two to go. And after two years, I'll either step away or keep going. I don't know what I'm going to do. Not stepping away. There's no way.

There's no way. I wouldn't mind just tail. I've never been to a tailgate. I wouldn't mind going to a tail deal. You guys look like you're having, you look like you're having a hell of a time at those tailgates. I look out my bus in the window and I'm like, oh my God. Look at these guys.

They're having a great time. You see that as a player. Remember you pulling in? You're like, God, there's so much more fun. I mean, the smoke's going to the air, and everyone's waving, having a good time. So one day, I'm going to participate in that. We would love that.

I'd love to have you. Yeah. I tailgated for the Stenack Centerville game. That was the only one of the few times I got to tailgate it. Yeah. Hey, that was the last question, but mom has a question, so I can't say no to that. Oh, no.

Yeah. Kirk had never asked you. You're not going to make me cry. You're not going to make me cry. Don't make me cry. I'm not going to make you crying. Okay. This is a question I'm always going to ask you.

Oh boy. And I never have. At Centerville High School, you played both football and baseball. And you were good in both. You played baseball. The whole team had played with so much joy. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I I think you had a 500 batting average as a senior.

Okay. I often wonder, you went into football, you followed it. At Ohio State, you couldn't play both. So your whole career, you followed football, and you've done very well. Do you ever miss baseball? Baseball, you probably know, baseball was my most natural sport. I just, I don't know, I was back in our day, you can relate to this, like, we were in the yard. Like, we were in the creek or the yard?

Like, that was all we knew when you grew up in my era. And so we played wiffle ball, we played pitcher's hand, we played pickle, we played anything you can imagine. Not to mention four square and all the other games that we played, hide and sea. It was just constant in the yard playing. And when we played baseball, I was always the youngest, and just, I just loved it. Baseball is probably my first love. Baseball, again, was my most natural thing. I played for a great coach, Tim Engelke, who probably were talking a lot about Bob Gregg and Ron Alrey.

Tim Engelke probably impacted me as much as anybody in my life as well. I don't know Tim Engelke. I know he retired a few years ago. Oh, did he? Yeah, Coach was a beast. and scary. Like just a tough, a tough coach that I made the varsity as a

sophomore, which was fun, but scary just being around that environment. And I burst my appendix. Almost died my 10th grade year, because they misdiagnosed it. But I think I miss baseball. I always miss it when I watch it now, but I don't miss football playing football at all.

I missed, I didn't see how far I could go with baseball. Like if there's any regress. I would ever have as an athlete. It was, I didn't go just a baseball and just, and give it a run. But I don't, I'm doing okay now, but I don't, I don't, I don't dwell on it, but it would have been fun to see what would have happened with that sport.

I was just gonna say, Terry, thank you, appreciate you having me. I know we stayed longer than you'd hoped, but Ryan, Ryan, thanks for you. brother. Hey, I love you, man. Love you. Yeah, it's awesome too. Awesome. I appreciate it so much that both of you

may time to do that. Just give him a hand. It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club. If you are, send me a note, Ryan at learningleader.com. Let me know what you learned from this great conversation with the legendary Kirk Herb Street. A few takeaways from my notes.

I loved hearing him talk through what he was feeling the night Ohio State won the national championship. And what it meant to him because he's so close with Coach Ryan Day. And Kirk's son is on the team and dealing with the heart issues that he had and the fact that Coach Day kept him apart, a member of the team. It was obvious that this was a super meaningful night. And I just love how vulnerable Kirk has become. He's showing his true self. And to me, that just makes them real and it makes them relatable and somebody that I really enjoy talking with. And then how Kirk being the most prepared broadcaster on TV stemmed from his time

playing quarterback at Centerville High School for coach Bob Gregg and Ron Aller. It's where he learned his work ethic to persevere, to get back up, to prepare, to be a great teammate. And it prepared him for his life. And I think he's taken all of those lessons he learned, again, from the legendary Bob Gregg and Ron Ulry and uses them in his everyday life. And that's what makes him the best in the world at what he does. And I love to hearing him talk about his relationship with Lee Corso, the 89-year-old Lee Corso and how their relationship has evolved from Lee originally mentoring a young Kirk Herb Street and helping him to become a great husband and dad and be great on TV and all of those

things that Kirk is. But now Kirk is the one helping Lee as Lee has dealt with a stroke and other health issues. And it's so obvious when you see the look in Kirk's eyes how much care and love. love he has for Lee Corso as a very special relationship. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Kirk Herbstre. I think he'll help you become a more effective leader because you continue to do that.

And you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts and you subscribe to the show. Really important. You rate it, hopefully five stars. And you write a thoughtful review. And by doing all of that, you are giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon.

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