The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 642: Jim Murphy - Inner Excellence, AJ Brown, Presence, Managing Fear, Daily Goals, & Understanding Our Greatest Needs

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Starting point is 00:00:52 I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Go to learning leader.com for show. notes of this and all podcast episodes, go to learning leader.com. Now on to the night's featured leader, Jim Murphy is a mental performance coach for some of the most accomplished professional athletes in the world. Formerly a professional baseball player himself, he now focuses on helping others. You may have heard of them if you were watching the Philadelphia Eagles playoff run last

Starting point is 00:01:27 season and star wide receiver AJ Brown was reading Jim's book, Inner Excellence, on the sideline in between offensive series. So cool. During our conversation we discuss the four goals you should set to have an excellent day. How to better manage fear. How to be less judgmental and how to manage your ego. And Jim also shares how he would help Rory McElroy. Really interesting story.

Starting point is 00:01:58 Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy my conversation with Jim Murphy. So I read this stat and it was fascinating to me. The first 11 days of 2025, your book Inter Excellence sold about 25 copies. So about, you know, maybe two a day or a little bit less than that. Then January 12th hit. What happened on January 12th and what happened after that? Yeah, so football player read the book on national TV, AJ Brown. I saw a picture of him reading the book in uniform sometime in December, but that's the last I didn't know any context.

Starting point is 00:02:42 And so that's really the last I thought about it. I just thought, wow, that's really cool. And then I'm actually in downtown Dallas in a hotel room watching a different football game, the bowl game between Penn State and Notre Dame. And then I look at my phone and I see a bunch of texts. And then someone says, hey, you got to check out the Packers Eagles Wild Card Game. And then that's when I saw it, you know, along with everyone else, what was going on? And then what happened in the following days after that?

Starting point is 00:03:09 Well, right away, it was just like an onslaught of messages, emails, like that I could, there's no way I could keep up with. It was the first TV station that contacted me was Good Morning NFL. And he said, can you get a book to me tonight? This was Sunday night. we need it by 2.45 a.m. because we're going to run with it the first thing in the morning. So that was a fun adventure. We actually didn't get him the right book. A friend of mine had had the first copy, the original copy. But yeah, the next day, it was just nonstop. I missed so many

Starting point is 00:03:40 interviews. I couldn't keep up with it. And it was really intense. I had also read that AJ Brown and you had no relationship prior to that moment. He just liked your book and just liked to read it. But then you have since talked. What was it about inter excellence that? resonated so much with him and how has it been since seeing that moment for you and his relationship? Yeah. So for him, you know, he plays a very dangerous violent sport. You know, our wide receiver going over the middle in the NFL can be very scary. And so to be one of the best, if not the best, like he is in the NFL, you have to have a sort of a fearlessness. And you can't let your mind dwell on what just happened if it wasn't good. And you can't think about the future. And that's really what

Starting point is 00:04:24 fear is it's a concern about future and self and so inner excellence is really about having a clear mind and unburdened heart and teaching you how to do that and so you know i think that really resonated with him and that's why he was bringing it to every game to help him get centered and after every drive to get re-centered and focus on how we wanted to feel and who we wanted to become and what was the most important you brought up fear and i want to go a little bit deeper on that we all have that in our lives. We all have different ways of dealing with it. Could you go a bit further on maybe how you handle fear? Or even an example of a time of, oh, this thing was really scary. I'm thinking of my daughter wants to skydive, like, as her senior present for her senior

Starting point is 00:05:11 year next year. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. I'm scared. But I kind of want to bond with her in that way because she really wants to do it. So I was really. scared. So maybe that's a bad example, but it's the first thing that popped in mind when I heard thought of being like really fearful of something. So tell me more about fear and how you manage it, how we all can better manage it. Yeah. So it's a great question. So one of the first things I do with clients is help them understand how fear works, how the mind works and especially the subconscious that's running our life and our lives and what your heart deeply wants. And so the heart, which I define as your will, your spirit, your soul, the deepest part of you, where your greatest fears are

Starting point is 00:05:53 and your greatest dreams are, that's the part that needs the most training. And Inter-Excellance is really about pursuing a life that matters, a life of meaning and fulfillment and deep-enriching relationships where you're learning and growing, and especially, like you said, facing your fears. And fears in general, it's a very self-centered thing. And the biggest challenge that we have in performance and in life is getting in our own way. Our own thoughts are really hurting us. And I call that self-centeredness, this constant thinking about self-walking in this self-protection,

Starting point is 00:06:24 self-concern, because when we're at our very best, then there's no self-protection or self-concern. There's no thoughts about self- whatsoever. And so when you're completely selfless, then you're fearless. It's the what's going to happen to me. That's what creates the fear. And so, you know, for people that may be having a hard time right now, there's interaction. excellence has one overarching goal is to learn and grow about how to live with absolute fullness of

Starting point is 00:06:51 life, to be fully alive. And we have four daily goals. And the first one is to give the best of what you have today. And if life is hard right now, understand that it may not be much at all. Give the best. We're not asking you to give anything more than you've got. And it may be very, very minimal. But that's okay. We're going to start somewhere. That's the important thing. And just make sure we're heading in the right direction and understand that there is hope. And so the first step is to give the best of what you got. It may be only 20% or 10% of your best. And we're just going to give 100% of that.

Starting point is 00:07:22 And then number two is to be present because there's no fear when you're present. Fear is a future thing. And then three is to be grateful because gratitude and anxiety do not go together. Really, you're either grateful or anxious, one of the two. And then the fourth one is to focus on your routines and only what you can control. And so if you think about this skydiving thing, it's, you know, if you're fully present the whole time, then it's going to be a really exhilarating thing. It's when your mind goes to the future. That's when you're going to, that's when you have problems. But then you just use some tools to

Starting point is 00:07:59 bring yourself back to the moment. So fear is usually about the future. You're like anxious or scared of something that might happen. Right. You might, your parachute might not open, right? You might die. It sounds great. Yes, be present. Live in the moment. Live in the moment. It's better there. Like everything's better. There's no sense in worrying about something that hasn't happened and probably will not happen. I know that. I can feel that. You mentioned tools there. What are some tools to get better at living in the present? Well, first of all, that whole thing I just shared with you about learning and growing is number one. Because our greatest need is to be loved and accepted. The human heart is five deep needs.

Starting point is 00:08:41 To feel like you're, to have a sense of worth that you have some value is the first one. And second one is love and acceptance. And then, which is the number one, actually, the most important one. And then there's integrity to be complete, to be fully integrated, and then have a purpose beyond yourself and then to grow. So these are the five deep needs of the heart, at least according to inner excellence. And when you're pursuing these things, then you can really have a sense of fearlessness, more often. And most everybody has had some fearlessness in their lives at some points. And I mean, it might be just playing Scrabble or doing a jigsaw puzzle where there's no fear or watching a

Starting point is 00:09:19 movie when you're fully in the moment. And so really understanding what is it like to be fully present and practicing that every day. And it doesn't have to be a real set thing. It's just like I'm going to work on being present today. And when I think of being present at the highest level, I think of the sense, anything is possible and a connection to beauty. It's far more than just thinking about not thinking about the past and future and thinking about, you know, what you can see in front of you. It's, it's far more than that. How about you specifically? What do you do? You're still human. You're still flawed like all of us, right? You have to work on this stuff, even though you write about it and you help others be really good at it. What would you do to stay fully present in the

Starting point is 00:09:56 moment? Yeah. And let me share with you something that I think is really important and especially in this, this, I'm in our culture. There's a lot of fear, anxiety, intention, violence, so much out of control. And so anxiety is such a massive thing. And anxiety is in mind with too many thoughts from too many concerns. And one of the very important elements of inter-execlance is, you know, in order to learn and grow, we need to face our fears and learn to get comfortable being uncomfortable. If you want to build anything great, a life, a business, a home, whatever it is, you're going to have to be willing to face uncomfortable feelings and to be willing to fail and be willing to look foolish. Because if you're not, for example, willing to fail or look foolish, then your options are very, very limited.

Starting point is 00:10:47 Then you have to only focus on a very small amount of things that you can do that you know are not going to go sideways. But if you want to build anything great, there has to be an element of risk where things that you can't control are involved. And so there's a series of questions that I ask myself when I'm uncomfortable. Am I willing to face my fears? Am I willing to face any feeling whatsoever? The feeling that I hate most, am I willing to have that one today? And am I willing to sit with the feelings that I dislike, even if they don't go away? These are really powerful, important questions to ask when we're afraid or when we have

Starting point is 00:11:27 these, whether it's anxiety or sense of being out of control or panic. Is there a time recently that you, you know, you were really scared and you use these tools to get through it better? Yeah, yeah. I can think of since January 12th. You know, there's times, you know,

Starting point is 00:11:44 being on national TV on the today show or things when I was nervous. And so asking myself these exact questions, are you willing to look foolish? Are you willing to have any feeling? You know, are you willing to face your fears? And then also for me, who are you trusting?

Starting point is 00:12:00 Like, why am I doing this? What's my purpose? Is that so Jim Murphy can look good? Because if it is, then it's a very scary thing. Because if it's about me, then I got to try and control a lot of things that I cannot control. But if it's to live my purpose, which I believe it is, then it becomes so much more than about me and not something that I need to control.

Starting point is 00:12:23 Like the Today Show was exciting. And really, I just said, you know, God, it's up to you. Like, if this goes great, obviously that's what I would like. but if I say the wrong thing or forget, you know, my mind goes blank. And, you know, I was battling jet lag and just interviews and lack of sleep and just intense barrage for months. And then the Today Show. And so a number of things could have gone wrong.

Starting point is 00:12:50 And in fact, they asked a couple questions that were not on the script. And so that could have had me, you know, kind of go blank. But, you know, God took care of it. So it was great. You know what's what is conjuring up these feelings and ideas for me is you're a professional athlete. I played sports. My sport was football. I played in high school college a little bit after college.

Starting point is 00:13:11 And when I was at my best, I was almost like unconscious. I just let it rip. I played quarterback. And so you've got to take shots. You got to take chances in order to accomplish big things. There's almost never perfect windows or your guys wide open. and you know, all that. And when I was at my best, though, I almost wasn't even thinking.

Starting point is 00:13:33 I was just responding to the moment and relying on instinct and letting it rip. That's what my good quarterback coach would always say is you got to let it fly, man. Let it rip. And I feel like there's some inter excellence in that coaching. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this idea of almost performing. I do it now like in keynote speaking where I'm at my best on stage when I just let it rip and just go for it. without this fear of maybe looking stupid or trying the joke or going big for the open, you know, anything like that where you're like, ah, let me just do the 70% version because

Starting point is 00:14:08 it's less risky. That version, by the way, Jim, as you know, is never good. Never. Like, it's either 100 and you're going to flop or 100 and it's awesome. And I think that relates a lot to the stuff you write about in intellectual. So I just wanted to get your take on that. So you're saying when you're at your best in football, there was no concern for self. there was no self-consciousness, right? You were saying that there was this absence of thoughts about self, is that right? You're almost not even like thinking at all. I mean, you're just playing.

Starting point is 00:14:37 You're just in the moment, again, present. And your instincts take over, your practice, right? We rep this stuff to death, just like AJ Brown and all those guys do. And you just react. You just go without even thinking about it, you know? So you mentioned playing. That's a very powerful word. So inter-excellences really revolves around three key areas that you can think of as BFF, best friends forever, belief, freedom, and focus.

Starting point is 00:15:06 So belief is a subconscious comfort level with what you feel is possible in your life. And everyone has beliefs in every area of their lives, and they all come with limitations. And so inter-excellence is really about understanding how to expand what you believe is possible in your life. And then freedom is probably the number one thing that people ask for the most. when I asked when we dig deep into what they want most in their life, that's the number one most common answer. And it's also the number one thing that's lacking the most in athletes. And anyone trying to accomplish anything is lack of freedom, lack of ability to play like a kid and focus to be fully present in the moment. Inter excellence is really an in-depth system.

Starting point is 00:15:46 And how do you become fully present in the moment and be able to play like a kid and have that sort of joy and believe that anything is possible. Okay, that one's big. I think freedom is hard. As you get older, you, I mean, you're further away from being a kid, I guess, as I'm thinking out loud here with you, Jim. I have a team of coaches I work with now that are part of my team, and we go out and do stuff together.

Starting point is 00:16:13 And I think when we are at our best, we are joking, we're making fun of each other. We're acting like we did when we were kids. Even with our clients, we're acting like that with them. get serious about the work and helping people and making sure they're maximizing people and their leaders are getting better. That's a big deal to us and we take that very seriously. But we don't take ourselves very seriously. It's constant joking, constant kind of screwing around at times because it's just more fun to live that way, I guess. I'm curious about how you help people gain more freedom and feel more like they're a kid again. Yeah. Well, what happens is people get

Starting point is 00:16:52 way too caught up in things that they want and can't control. And it's because of our deep need for love and connection. And then we have a subconscious mind that's always trying to bring us closer to what our beliefs are. But we have this ego that as I define it is a part of our mind that's always threatened, always comparing and never satisfied. And so the ego is constantly saying, look, if you screw this up, you're going to get your worst nightmare, which is rejection.

Starting point is 00:17:20 nobody's going to love you. No one's going to follow you. Everyone's going to shun you. And it's hard with this ego to navigate. And in order to have freedom, we need to simplify our lives and focus it on an overarching purpose for your life. Because especially in today's culture, when there's so much coming at you, so many ideas, so much information, if you don't have a clear purpose for your life, then you're going to be constantly looking over your shoulder. What about this? What about that?

Starting point is 00:17:49 Oh, I should try this. I should try that. And so, and that really is a path to anxiety. So I know you work with golfers. There, there's some of your earliest clients. And I saw that Scottie Schaeffler's catty blurbed some of your recent work. I was watching Rory McElroy, who's kind of in a weird spot right now if you follow golf. And I know you do, Jim, but if just people in general follow golf, he wins the Grand Slam and wins the Masters. And it's spiraled a little bit afterwards. And they interviewed him after he made the cut in the U.S. Open. And, and, and he needed to birdie like the last two or three holes or something like that in order to

Starting point is 00:18:23 hit the cut on the number. And Roy is usually like leading tournaments, not just barely trying to make cuts. And he said to the reporters like in a real honest moment, you know, I didn't really care. Like I didn't even know if I wanted to be here for the weekend. So I was like, I just kind of like, whatever. And by doing that and he goes, and when you do that, it's like freeze you up and you play easy. And I was like, Roy, do you understand what you're saying right now? Like he burdied the last few holes in order to hit the cut on the number.

Starting point is 00:18:49 and he openly admitted because he didn't care because he wasn't sure if you wanted to be there for the weekend and actually make the cut. What do you what do you make of that? Extremely common that when you your expectations are high, then its performance goes down and when you have a carefree attitude, then performance can go up. The problem is people try not to care and that's very problematic for multiple reasons. One, how do you try not to care about something that you deeply care about. Yes. You're just kind of just confused.

Starting point is 00:19:23 And you're fooling yourself. And so inner excellence is really about training your heart to love what's most empowering. So Rory ran into the problem of human nature, which is, you know, now that he's a grand slime winner, the expectations are, you know, very high because not many people have ever done that. And so, and this is a big challenge when you achieve something of, you. of great stature or significance, then expectations go way up. And this can create a lot of issues and has historically created a lot of issues for people

Starting point is 00:19:59 because, like I said, our greatest need is to be loved and accepted and our greatest fear is failure and understanding that, you know, before Rory won the masters, you know, he's the same guy. But now he's got this extra status. And so, oh, do I need to do something special? And the sense that I don't even want to be there is with inter excellence, it's really, look, why am I playing golf? I want to live an amazing life. I want to live a life of meaning with amazing experiences, deep enriching relationships where I'm learning and growing and making a difference in the world.

Starting point is 00:20:31 That's why I'm golfing or coaching or parenting or anything. And so if you understand, okay, this is what I really want, then it really comes down to how do I grow as a person and share that with the world? and use Ferrari golf to learn how to do that. But what happens because this is not taught in schools, our culture is obsessed about the end result, and that's the only thing that matters. And the problem with that is, one, it's out of your full control, the end result.

Starting point is 00:20:59 And two, you could get it and win, say, 23 Olympic gold medals and be suicidal. Michael Phelps. Like it may not even make you happy. And so understand that, that there's there's a life of extraordinary experiences waiting for you. You're created for relationship. You're created for this extraordinary life.

Starting point is 00:21:24 But it's a life of sacrificing yourself to make a difference in the world, to become a certain type of person because the world needs hope. And you are what the world needs, this person that learns to live sacrificially and selflessly so it can be fearless. Well, it feels to me, too, the external awards, or the championships or bestselling author titles, right? Which you earn a decade after you publish your book, which is insane is most people,

Starting point is 00:21:51 you either get it right at the beginning or never. But it's almost like if you're too focused on the external, that it could create huge problems for you. It seems like it's what's happening in Rory's life right now, just to stay on that example. Versus, I feel like, again, Scottie Schephler, who, again, I don't know if you worked directly with him, but I saw his caddy,

Starting point is 00:22:14 who's also seems to be like one of the best in the world who follows your word. He's amazing. Scotty seems when I listen to him speak, and he's won a ton, is more than anybody in the last, however many years, so grounded, so grateful.

Starting point is 00:22:29 Oh, my goodness, how much he talks about his life with his wife and kids and just going to Chipotle. I mean, but he's also crushing everybody. He's very competitive and he definitely wants to win, but then just seems like he doesn't have the weight on his shoulders. He's able to freely, swing the golf club and freely play the game, win a ton, but then stay grounded. And that to me is

Starting point is 00:22:49 that's what you want, right? You want to be able to go out there and perform at really, really high levels in whatever your craft is, but then also be able to stay grounded and fully present in the moment. You know, it reminds me of the story I wrote in the book that came out in November called The Best Possible Life, How to Live with Deep Intent, Enjoy, and Confidence, no matter what. It was written for the seventh grade level reading, kind of a summary of inter excellence, but focus on the spirit and your heart. And in there, I asked this question, it's a similar question asked in the book, Inter Excellence.

Starting point is 00:23:20 Would you rather own a $10 million house on the water, fully paid off, or would you rather live in an apartment with no savings ever for the rest of your life, paycheck to paycheck for the rest of your life, but be guaranteed a life of amazing experiences and deep enriching relationships, where you're learning and growing and filled with peace and joy every day the rest of your life, which would you rather have?

Starting point is 00:23:48 And I know for me, the vast majority of my life, I for sure would have picked a house because I'd never had much anxiety in like free, multi-million dollar house on the water, of course, versus living in an apartment and have good feelings. Like, that's a no-brainer. That's what I would have chosen most of my life. Really? Would you really have chosen that? Oh yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 00:24:14 And I think every teenager would too, probably 95%. Teenager, but like, and most adults. You think so? Yeah. I feel like as you grow, you realize the priceless elements

Starting point is 00:24:29 of loving relationships and cool, enriching experiences. Don't forget about the living paycheck to paycheck in an apartment with no savings. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to because we don't live that. You think most of your friends would choose that? No, that part of it's tough, I guess. And it's easy for me to say, since that's not how we live. But yeah, I don't know. I just feel like maybe with maturity, it's just like, for example, Jim, I would say gift giving, right? Giving and receiving gifts, whether it's within my family, my wife and children. We've just shifted not 100%, but close to. that that they're experiential gifts right we got enough stuff we got all the stuff we need right very

Starting point is 00:25:17 fortunate i know i'm grateful and super lucky let's think of the coolest experiences in the world and then go where are we going to ian national park are we going to the taylor swift concert are we like what are we doing that to me or or just for a walk in the park then cost any money you know like that's an amazing family experience to i don't know and i think it's easy for me to say this now maybe because I'm older. I've had some years to get a lot better at this. But to me, I feel like it's, this podcast has actually probably helped. The relationships and experiences beat everything.

Starting point is 00:25:56 The only challenge is that you wouldn't be able to do that anymore, those experiences. What do you mean? You could go with no savings. You can go to the park, but you're not going on vacation. You're right. You're right. I love that we're going back and forth of this. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:26:13 So I interrupted your story. So I'm going to let you finish. But I feel like that's where you're going to, though, right? Like you're focusing more on relationships and experiences. Yeah. I think that so the big thing is to understand that why would you, if say the listener would choose the house like me for most of my life? What if no one could ever see the house?

Starting point is 00:26:33 Would you still choose it? You know, I think that would make a big difference because for me, I picture myself having these get-togethers, these barbecues, and having so much fun and people loving, and I just feel so secure like I'm successful and I'm somebody and I don't even have to say anything because it's my house and I can just relax. I don't have to prove anything. But if I'm inviting people over to a little apartment that's maybe rent controlled or whatever and I'm driving an old beater car, then it's a weird dynamic, right? It's interesting. But the point is, is what inter excellence is I help people go for what they want most.

Starting point is 00:27:13 We go directly for it, a life of amazing experiences, deep enriching relationships where they're learning and growing and making a difference in the world. And the cool byproduct is that's the best way to develop world champions. My friend Brooke Cups, his purpose in life is to help people strive for excellence over success. And he would define success as a comparison with others and living by what society says, do the Instagram world. Excellence is within yourself, your core values, your purpose, the critical behaviors that make those core values correct and true and be solely focused on that, like maximizing

Starting point is 00:27:54 your own potential. And so I'm curious how you would, that dichotomy of excellence versus success, I know that's our definition, not yours, but like there are some similarities here of this intrinsic, internal to you, your own definition of engagement. good life of success on your terms, not what society or social media would say is, quote, success. You know, I think right away, I think of living a selfless and therefore fearless life. One more thing I wanted to talk about with regards to having this, quote, successful

Starting point is 00:28:29 life of status and multimillion dollar house versus having amazing experiences, but not having anything that would look successful. There's a, I believe that love is the most powerful force in the universe. It's what holds the stars in place and spins the earth, grows the grass, and it's our deepest need and our greatest desire, our greatest power, perfectly fearless. And there's joy comes from love. And there's so much strength, or so much love that comes from weakness that cannot be, cannot come out of strength. And I think that's maybe similar to that idea of living in an apartment paycheck to paycheck. Because when you have a lot of money, one of the things that it allows is you don't have to rely on others.

Starting point is 00:29:21 It can create this isolation. And I think you see that with people that have a lot of resources, it becomes kind of an isolating life. Because it's easy to forget that we're created for a relationship. And it's our number one need is to connect with others because love and acceptance is our greatest need. And then you can think about the greatest punishment in prison is to be separated from others. Well, it's funny. You see these people who maybe start a business and they grind hard for however many years. And then maybe they exit.

Starting point is 00:29:55 They sell the business and they get paid a billion dollars. And then those. So everyone's like, wow, there they go. Retire to the beach. Have six houses. You know, do whatever you want. And then that same person is back to starting a new. company in two months, three months, six months later. Well, because you've got to have a purpose.

Starting point is 00:30:14 You got to have a reason to get out of bed. It might have been cool for a week or two for those people or maybe not even that long. And then you've got to get back. Wait, what am I here to do? What was I put here to do? And without a purpose, without a reason to get up and do something, as you mentioned, Michael Phelps, like, thinks about killing himself after 23 gold medals and all the crazy stuff. There are countless stories of that. It's why like the lottery winners struggle so much. You did nothing to earn it and you don't have purpose afterwards and you probably got people coming after you for stuff. So that to me is everything is like it feels like inner excellence in what you do and from everything I've done leading up to this to study to get ready for this

Starting point is 00:30:50 conversation is helping people find true purpose and being focused on the moment to do the thing. And by doing that, that's going to lead to fulfillment and gratitude and love and joy. And that's really what we have to aim for, right? Not just earning a certain. dollar amount, but what are we actually here to do? Yeah, I mean, and I never tell people what to do. I just try and make sure I ask a lot of questions that help them understand themselves what they really want, and then I try and help them get it. And so I just know that if you're like me obsessing about the results, like with Inter Excellence and my professional athletes, we never talk about results. Just in the beginning of the year, we talk about goals.

Starting point is 00:31:30 But it's about getting better every day and understanding what am I trying to get better at? you know we got the five skills of belief and and competing with freedom and passion and controlling your physiology and learning to be present and adapting to any situation everything falling under the three categories of belief freedom and focus so we're working on that every day and living a life of purpose and simplifying our life so we can have that sense of freedom do you set goals do you have external base goals well when i work with somebody it's always i ask them what has worked the best for you in the past. When you've set external goals, has that helped you or hurt you? And if it's helped them, then we do it. Like when you're talking about baseball to hit 300 or

Starting point is 00:32:14 whatever it is, it's hit some number. If it's helped them, then we do it. And then I monitor it and see how it's helping them. Some people, it makes them anxious and hurts their performance and some people it helps. But either way, our number one goal is to get better every day and understand that today is the most important day. Sunday on the Masters is not more important than today. How do you measure if they're getting better each day? Well, that's a good question is, well, what are we trying to get better at? Right. And, you know, you're-

Starting point is 00:32:43 So what are examples of things that people want to get better at? And then how do you measure that? Well, people come to me and it's like they're coming for superficial things that may or may not make them happy, like even winning Olympic gold medal. or being world number one may not make you happy. And happiness I define as a positive temporary feeling based on what's happening. You get some good circumstance and you feel happy.

Starting point is 00:33:14 If the circumstances are bad, you don't. Whereas inter excellence is the pursuit of a meaningful, fulfilling life with joy, which I define as a deep sense of well-being, freedom, and gratitude, independent of circumstance. And so with inter excellence, it's always, how can I learn and grow in love, wisdom, and courage? Because I want to live a life of joy. And joy comes from love.

Starting point is 00:33:40 And when I say love, I mean the unconditional kind. That's the most powerful force that there is, unconditional love. And so understanding, because, you know, as a learning leader, what is a leader trying to learn? Like, I had an executive telling me that they were really good at helping people advance in their careers. And I said, that's, you know, it's really cool. that can be very helpful. It also can be very problematic if you help someone advance in a career

Starting point is 00:34:04 and become president of a company and they're a tyrant or, you know, their inner world is filled with anxiety and then they're not nice to their spouse or kids or whatever. Then did you really help them? So I think helping someone advance in their career may or may not be a good thing. So let's say we are working together. Let's do a little bit of a hypothetical, but we can do some real-time coaching maybe. If it doesn't work, we'll throw this out, no big deal. But let's say I'm like, Jim, I want to measure how I'm getting better at being more present every day. I want you to hold me accountable or whatever the phrasing you would use so that I am better, this is a real thing, by the way, at being more present every day.

Starting point is 00:34:51 Less thinking of the past, less thinking of the future, but being more right here, right now. How would you measure if I'm actually improving at that? One thing is taking the four daily goals that I shared earlier and rating them every day one to five, five's the best. How did I do? Did I give it my best shot? Was I present? And then because as you, if you're rating them, now you're going to start to say, how can I get better? Especially if you give yourself a two or three on being present. And so to be present, it's really understanding, well, what is that like I shared earlier? It's to me the highest level is a sense that anything is possible and a sense of freedom. And anxiety is kind of a clear sign that someone is not very present. Now, there can be biological issues that cause that. But for most of us, for example, anxiety comes from a mind with just way too many thoughts from too much clutter, too much information in their head, especially too much negative things in their head.

Starting point is 00:35:51 If someone had anxiety, I would really work with them on making sure that they're only putting into their head things that are empowering. and according to their goals and dreams and values. Is being fully present something that you're really good at? You know, I've never even said I'm good at inter excellence. I wouldn't say I'm very good at it. I'm saying it's something that I want to be really good at. Really?

Starting point is 00:36:17 You're studying it, you're teaching it. By teaching it, I feel like it would kind of rub off on you. You know what I mean? Like, do you feel that? I guess you can say, like you said, how do we measure that? And a sense of peace and joy is one way to measure that because fear and anxiety is this past future orientation. What about this? What about that? And God's really blessed me with a lot of peace and joy. And so I'm super grateful for that. You have this really calm aura and presence. Your voice just feels at ease. I feel good and

Starting point is 00:36:57 cozy and comfortable just talking with you. Is this just how you've always been? You're naturally, you're born this way? Or is this a thing you've had to work on and develop? Well, no. I was, the biggest challenge I have is self-centeredness. And if some people who know me, think I'm self-centered now, you should have seen me 10, 20 years ago. Or when I was 21, yeah, it was not pretty. And so my purpose is to share God's love, wisdom, and courage with athletes and leaders around the world. And so it's something that I think is so important for everyone to have a clear purpose and that there's something that they can devote their life to. And something I think about when the first thing when you wake up and last thing you think about before you go to bed,

Starting point is 00:37:39 Inter Excellence is really a series of habits of thought and action that you do every day to live according to your purpose. And so that means having clear routines and a clear system and how to do that because otherwise you're going to get caught up in things that you want and can't control and anxiety is going to be always near. I think it's really cool. that people who know their purpose, it's almost always focused on how they help other people. And the same with you. Like it just seems like it's always focused on how they can help other people. That's what most people who have a clearly defined purpose and actually live it out,

Starting point is 00:38:10 it's focused on others. Yeah, that's good awareness. You know, if you have, say, you have a goal that you want to win a gold medal or achieve something, I wouldn't really call that a purpose or you want to be the best at something. I would just call that a goal. So for me, the most powerful purposes are based on the most powerful thing in the universe, which is love. And love is sacrificing yourself for someone else. And so I think that's why you notice that.

Starting point is 00:38:37 You're not married, are you? Not yet. Not yet. Do you think you're on that path? Well, if there's any potential suitors watching, then maybe send me a message. You don't have kids either? No. married. Is that something you want to do? Do you want to be married? Do you want to have kids?

Starting point is 00:38:58 You know, there's a lot of things that I would like to have. And what I want most is to make a difference in the world and to take these resources, especially that I've been given the last few months and make a difference around the world and share that with as many people as I can. And if I have some amazing people around me that I'm doing that with. If I had someone even more special to do it with, that would be cool too? Well, part of the reason I asked about being a dad is because the dedication of your book. One of the people is to your dad, Donald C. Murphy, you said, he's the one who greatly influenced me to think deeply about what to love and what to let go of. I love you, see you soon. And I also read your dad, worked on the Apollo 11 mission, the one

Starting point is 00:39:37 that helped us land on the moon, which is pretty awesome. Can you tell me more about your dad and what he taught you? Yeah, he was very intense. He really wanted to learn and he was really big on community. We had foster kids growing up that he took in. And, you know, he grew up in a strict Catholic household. And there wasn't a lot of love in his childhood. His dad died when he was a kid. And stepfather was pretty harsh. And so, and he left high school, dropped out of high school to join the Air Force. And, you know, did some amazing things in his life. And he was constantly challenging me and how to think about things. And that was, you know, really shaped me a lot. And His devotion to discipline and learning was really important, impactful.

Starting point is 00:40:29 Wow. Additionally, you've also moved to Spain, right? Another part of the world, I was fascinated to hear that. Spain's also on my mind. One of my daughters is on a 10-day trip. She's in the middle of right now. I miss her terribly. And it's hard.

Starting point is 00:40:45 So I was like, wow, you're in Spain. She's in Spain. And so I'm curious, what is it that made you want to move to Spain? Yeah, I want to share inter excellence with more people around the world. And so I'm so excited that now it's going to be in about 26 languages so far. It's going to be in Spanish in Spain, July 17th, and then I think in Mexico in August or September. But I want to become fluent in Spanish for sure and then Japanese after that. Because I want to make a bigger difference and really want to work with people that are lacking resources and help them, you know, like we get to do.

Starting point is 00:41:20 with YWAM and the Inter Excellence Freedom Project, building houses in Mexico. Wow. That's wild. I also read about Ricky Scruggs, former teammate, roommate when you were playing pro baseball. Sounds like he helped you leave some of the safety of where you were and take a chance. Can you tell me more about Ricky? That's right. We were teammates for the Surrey Glaciers in 1995, an amazing year, one of my favorite years

Starting point is 00:41:45 ever playing pro baseball, and he was my roommate on the road. And yeah, so he started a baseball academy called Centerfield Baseball Academy in Tucson, Arizona, and invited me to come down for the ground opening. And I was just really thinking deeply about my life at that time. And then I just said, what if I moved down there and help you part-time? So that's when I got rid of, gave away over half my possessions, including my TV, and went to go live a life of solitude and work with him. And so it was, you know, that's where Inter Excellence was born.

Starting point is 00:42:16 Do you still not have a TV? Well, we don't have one here in Spain, but I mean, now it's so, I mean, you get a phone, you can get a computer and monitor. So it's a lot different than it was back then. But yeah, I don't have a TV. Wow. Okay. You don't have any desire to like, hey, I want to go watch a movie on Netflix. You're like, no, I can just use my phone up in any of that or what?

Starting point is 00:42:39 Yeah. So, you know, I probably watch way more than I would like to admit. But, you know, I think I need an interaction. more than anybody. You know, like the place I had in Point Roberts, the little retreats that I had just outside of Vancouver, B.C., there's writing on all the windows of their prayers and Bible verses and inter-excellance principles and ideas that I'm working through, every window was covered. And it was because your environment has such a big impact on you, because you move towards what you think about. And I wanted to make sure that I was constantly think about things that were empowering

Starting point is 00:43:15 and the truth about who I was and what was possible for me. And so that's why I have reminders on my phone that go off every few hours on who I am and what's possible. And I read it on the windows and things like that. I read about you that one of your strengths is that you're not judgmental. I think a lot of us are. I think I am. I try not to be.

Starting point is 00:43:40 I try to be much more curious than judgmental. I read a story. You said you have a pro client. and the client says, Jim, this isn't going to work. I smoke, I gamble, I drink. I do all these things. And you said to him, well, as long as you don't judge me, he said, you don't judge me for not doing those things.

Starting point is 00:43:56 I won't judge you for doing those things. Are we cool? And you're like, boom, yes, let's go. And I just love that story of, like, how you've just removed judgment from the way you are. Is that an active pursuit or are you naturally just not a very judgmental person? Well, thank you for saying that. That's my dream to be non-judgmental. I'm not sure where you heard that, but I'm praying that I can be that type of person. Non-judgmental awareness is such a crucial component of an extraordinary life and extraordinary performance. And, you know, like we talked about when you're at your very best, there's no concern for self, and there's also no negative thoughts or, you know, judgmental thoughts.

Starting point is 00:44:36 And when I say judgmental, I mean laying down a negative verdict about self, circumstances or others. most people spend most of their time in judgment, most of their day in judgment, and without realizing it because it's so common that they just accept it as a part of life. And if you could get a printout of all your thoughts throughout the day, then you could kind of see, you know, the amount of massive amount of judgment that humans have. And also, you could also have a good prediction of what their life will be like in the next few weeks based on the printout of all their thoughts. And so reducing judgment is so huge. And understanding that, When you judge someone else, you're creating this negative energy.

Starting point is 00:45:15 Some goes to that person and some stays within you and now you become a little more unstable and self-conscious. The exact same thing happens when you share unconditional love. Now you're generating some positive energy. Some stays within you and some goes to the other person. And now you've become a little more stable and a little more fearless. And that's why, you know, I think everyone's always either walking in love or fear. And that's why unconditional love is so powerful. and it's not the result of the love that you give because you can't control that.

Starting point is 00:45:46 It's just saying, do I want to walk in love or fear? And if I have to walk in one or the other and love, like I said, it's hard because it's sacrificial. So good. Jim, if you're meeting with somebody who was, let's say, early 20s, just graduated college, they want to leave a positive dent in the world, but they're not exactly sure what they're going to do or how to do that. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice you'd give? to that person? I think about legendary Eagles coach Dick Vermeal. He said that when you, when you're coaching somebody, coach the person first and then the sport. Like a tennis player is a

Starting point is 00:46:24 person first than a tennis player and a football player is a person first than a football player. And so the reason I bring that up is because I think understanding like you may not know what you want to do with your life right now, but by far the most important thing about you is who you're becoming and what you believe. Beliefs are feeling. And so what I want and hope for everyone that watches this is that when they come to a stoplight, when they come to a solitary moment in their life, that they have a sense of freedom and beauty and then that they go to this sense that anything is possible. And I feel that that's probably pretty rare because most people have minds that are very cluttered

Starting point is 00:47:07 because of all that's out of their control and trying to control what they cannot. And so it's just saying, look, there's so much that I can't control and life might be really hard right now. And so I'm going to focus on those four daily goals. And you can start to think about what I always start with clients with is how do you want to feel in your life? Because we're going to start to orient our habits of thought and action around helping you get that feeling because likely you're going to say, I want to feel inner peace.

Starting point is 00:47:34 I want to feel joy. I want to feel confident, things like this. and understand because when you understand human nature, you know that that joy comes from love. And like I talked extensively about in the book, The Best Possible Life, that one, the best possible life has one foot in joy and one foot in suffering. And so to live an extraordinary life, you need to take risks. You need to do hard things and constantly put yourself out there to get comfortable being uncomfortable. One thought is there are skeptics and cynics in the world who may be. be listening watching this and they're like ah that guy's too woo-woo for me you know joy peace love

Starting point is 00:48:16 content all these words i love it honestly but i know that those people exist i'm that person sometimes what do you say to the cynics of of you and this way of thinking how do you respond to that it's a good question well first of all since i started the inter excellence what 15 years ago or so the majority of my clients have the best year of their careers, our first year together, or the best year in the last five years. And then also there's been multiple world number ones, world champions, et cetera. And so I get paid to help people perform better. I'm not paid to help people feel better. And so, you know, I travel all over the world to help people perform better, not feel better. It's just, that's the way that I do it. You need to understand if you want to be the best performer

Starting point is 00:49:01 that you can be, it's going to take inner strength. Inner strength and inner peace are highly correlated and how do you get that? It's closely related to gratitude. If you want to be able to create inner peace, gratitude is directly related. And you can learn to be grateful by focusing on the smallest gifts that you're given each day. Boom. I love it. Thank you so much, man. The book's called Inter Excellence. If you're a football fan, you've already seen this all over the place when AJ Brown was reading it during a game. In the locker room, Tom Brady talked about it. A million and other people did too. And now I have the author, Jim Murphy, on the show.

Starting point is 00:49:36 I really appreciate you being here. And Jim, I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress, man. Thanks for the great questions. Love being here. Awesome. Thank you so much. It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club.

Starting point is 00:49:56 If you are, send me a note, Ryan at learning leader.com. Let me know where you learn from this great conversation with Jim Murphy. A few takeaways from my notes. four daily goals. Give the best of what you've got today. Be present. Fear is a future thing. Be grateful. It's hard to be hateful and grateful at the same time. Let's choose to be grateful. And then focus on what you can control. And then the five greatest needs that we have value, love and acceptance, integrity, purpose beyond self and growth. And that purpose one is interesting in the fact that I found the leaders who have a very clear purpose are almost always focused on helping others.

Starting point is 00:50:43 And I love Dick Vermeel's coaching style. Coach the person first, then the sport, the person first, then the sport, or whatever it is that you are doing if you work in the business world, coach the person first and then the thing that you're doing. The same is true for any and all leadership role. people will not care what you think unless they know that you actually care for them. Coach the person first. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two. Hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Jim Murphy.

Starting point is 00:51:20 I think it will help you become a more effective leader because you continue to do that. And you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcast and you subscribe to the show and you're rated, hopefully, five stars. By doing all of that, you are giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis, and for that I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to soon. Can't wait.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 642: Jim Murphy - Inner Excellence, AJ Brown, Presence, Managing Fear, Daily Goals, & Understanding Our Greatest Needs

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