The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 664: David Adelman - 664: David Adelman - Campus Apartments CEO and 76ers Co-Owner on Losing a Big Bet, Bar Mitzvah Real Estate Deals, His Grandfather's Holocaust Survival Story, and Building Philadelphia's New Arena

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: David Adelman is the CEO of Campus Apartments, founder of Darco Capital, and co-owner of the Philadelphia 76ers. During our conversation, we discussed how losing a basketball bet at age 11 changed his life, investing his bar mitzvah money in real estate, becoming CEO at 25, his grandfather's Holocaust survival story, and why it gives him perspective on struggle, embracing failure, the trade-offs of building something excellent, and what he looks for when hiring leaders. Key Learnings "Why not me? Why not now?" David's mantra cuts through all the overthinking and excuses we make. When he saw other people building national real estate portfolios, he didn't wonder if it was possible—he asked why he couldn't do it. Stop waiting for permission. Stop waiting for the perfect moment. Ask yourself: why not me? Why not now? Make mistakes, just not the same one twice. David doesn't expect perfection from himself or his team. He expects learning. Fail fast, fail forward, but don't repeat the same failure. That's not growth—that's negligence. Embrace the suck, but evolve through it. David's grandfather survived the Holocaust after his wife and children were murdered. He escaped, joined the resistance, and rebuilt his life from nothing. When David thinks about that, he says: "No matter what, I don't know struggle." That's perspective. Most of what we call struggle is just discomfort. Understanding that doesn't make your challenges disappear... It makes them manageable. If your grandfather could survive the unthinkable, you can handle the hard day in front of you. At age 11, David challenged family friend Alan Horwitz to a basketball game and made a wager. Horwitz didn't let the kid win, and David lost his basketball, football, and baseball glove. To get them back, he had to go to Campus Apartments every Saturday to sweep sawdust and stack lumber. This losing bet became his entry into a billion-dollar career. At 13, David gambled his $2,000 bar mitzvah money by investing it with Horwitz in a building at 45th and Pine Streets in Philadelphia - a property his company still owns today. By age 17, he bought his first solely owned investment property. David was accepted into Temple University Beasley School of Law but chose to become a Property Manager at Campus Apartments instead. At age 25 in 1997, he became CEO of Campus Apartments. His grandfather, Sam Wasserman, was captured by the Nazis in 1942 and taken to the Sobibor concentration camp, where his wife and two children were immediately executed. Wasserman escaped during an organized revolt, joined the resistance, was wounded in battle, and was cared for by a woman named Sophie, who became his second wife. David said, "I feel a deep connection to him and what he went through. It's more like a sense of duty to honor him." David says, "I bet on jockeys, not horses. I ask, 'If the thing fails, would we support them again?' To be clear, a lot of our [investments] are going to fail.' He learned the hard way: "Friends would say, 'Here's a deal, put in X amount,' so you know, it's $250,000 or $500,000 or $1 million. I realized very quickly that it's probably a money-losing prospect to just invest in a friend of a friend's idea or because someone at your country club is investing in it." "It's called working off your debt." I literally lost everything to my "Uncle" Alan in 30 minutes when I was 11. My baseball glove, football, basketball, even my bank book. Every Saturday, I had to stack lumber and sweep sawdust to get one item back. Two years later, at my Bar Mitzvah, my parents asked if I wanted to give my gift money to my grandfather, who was good at picking stocks. I said no, I want to give it to Uncle Alan and buy real estate. At 13, I drove around with him, picked the biggest building he owned, handed him $2,000, and became a partner. My grandfather was in Poland with a wife and two kids when the Nazis rounded him up. There were two lines. One for men, one for women, and children. He never saw his wife and kids again. He escaped from the Sobibor prison camp, became a freedom fighter, got shot, and was in a hospital recovering when a woman checking on her brother saw this lonely soldier and went over to check on him. That was my grandmother. My mother was born in a displaced persons camp after the war. "No matter what, when I'm getting the crap kicked out of me in business or anything else, I don't know struggle." I think about my grandfather and what he went through. "That guy knew pressure and made it through the other side. So I have to stop being a little bitch about it and lean in." Uncle Alan always said, "Whatever you do in life, it shouldn't feel like work." I have never said I'm going to work. I say I'm going to the office. Now, am I tired sometimes? A hundred percent. Did I miss a lot of stuff with my kids? Absolutely, and I have deep regret over that. With success and money comes a price, too. Becoming a CEO at 25. "Why not me and why not now?" I live my life by this mantra. In the 1990s, no one was doing student housing at large scale nationally. I saw this white space, and I'm like, fuck it, let's do it. "I'm not afraid to fail. And I think if you're not afraid to fail, it's a freedom." "Embrace the suck." Not everything's gonna be fun. Some things are hard. But sometimes when you push through them, you get to another side. Sometimes you don't, and pulling the plug is okay if it's not working. I've gotten good at understanding that a business might be a great opportunity, a great idea, at the wrong time. When building something…If you aren't willing to make sacrifices earlier in your career and build that foundation for the future, being an entrepreneur might not be for you. I made choices to miss things with my wife and kids. Were all those things I missed worth it? Probably not. My daughters are 21 and 23 now, and I missed a lot of their early growing up. Four years ago, I apologized to my older one, and she said, "You know what, we remember this dad more than that dad." "It's never too late to make a change." After you've done okay financially, it has to be about something else. The guys and women I roll with—"it's not about money. You either are wired to get up and work hard every day and do it, and it has to be about something else." It could be about providing opportunities for the people who work with you, or solving complex problems, or creating a business you're excited about. "I don't think I'm the smartest guy in the room." You have to be open to learning.  I continue to want to learn about other people's businesses. If I meet somebody, I'm like, tell me about that business. If you have that inquisitive mind, some guy tells me he's in the widget business, and I'll think of ten things they should try to do. "I am never too embarrassed to say I don't know something." When we were selecting architects and contractors for the arena, I spoke to owners of the newest stadiums. Just lessons learned about the process. When I mentor kids, I tell them most people are afraid to say "I don't know" or "I don't understand." "If you're embarrassed for looking stupid, isn't it worse if you don't know what you're doing down the road because you didn't ask?" "People don't know how to listen anymore. People wait to talk." They don't listen. When I have dinner with my youngest daughter, I hand her my phone so I won't be on it. I want to be there, I want to be attentive. Why are you wasting time meeting with people if you're not gonna listen to them? "Make lots of mistakes. Just don't make the same one twice." Try hard. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. The worst thing that happens is someone says no. I met my wife in a bar, literally in line for pizza. Turns out she was the school teacher two different women had told me I needed to call. The funny part is my buddy was talking to her best friend. He married her, I married Hailey, and our kids are best friends. When it comes to sales. "Don't bullshit people. That's my number one goal." People can tell. Even at an early age, I had the humility to say I don't know everything. Here's my business plan, here's why I think I can scale Campus Apartments across the country when that wasn't being done. When I'm hiring or promoting leaders, I look for three things. One is trust—I need to trust them. Two is creating an open line of communication. Three, "I don't think you're a successful leader or CEO if you're not willing to listen." There are a lot of dictator type CEOs. That's not me. Some of them work. "I don't manage from fear, I manage from bringing in opinions." For me, it's about having people who, in their individual swim lanes, are better at those jobs than you are. The DeSean Jackson situation taught me about leading with curiosity. He made some anti-Semitic comments, and people came to me saying we need to cancel him. "Before I get there, I actually just want to find out what his intent was." The things he said were based on him being uninformed about the hurtfulness of those words. Not only was he willing to understand that, but he said, "Can you take me to your Holocaust memorial and actually educate me?" He came with his mom, no press. "It would be nice to take a moment before you're ready to convict somebody and actually have a conversation." When I'm looking at investments, I really have to understand the product. I joke, "Do my kids at least understand it?" Number two: Who's the founder? People matter. I ask myself, if this thing goes bad, and as long as the guy's not a crook, would I invest with them again? "I have to be more than just money in the deal." I like knowing when my influence and input can help make a difference. I think it's strategic thinking, introductions, and being a sounding board. The hardest part about being a founder is that they're afraid to tell investors bad news. "Bad news doesn't get better with time." Advice to young professionals. "Try to get noticed for the right reasons." Show up and go to work. Go get coffee when you see your boss's boss there. Don't be afraid to introduce yourself. Ask lots of questions. Be the person who says, "Could you explain that to me?" Folks in my position really respect that. "Don't be afraid to put out a bad idea." I hate working from home because I think people are screwed by the opportunity to interact with people and better their career and learn things. You're robbed of chance encounters, of overhearing conversations, of learning by proximity. We're building this arena in downtown Philly, not taking any city capital, and doing good things for the city. We came together with Comcast who owns the Flyers. "It's gonna be the best live entertainment venue in the world, located in Philadelphia." We're opening in 2030 with a WNBA team. For those counting Philly out, you're wrong—we're doing great shit here. Reflection Questions David's grandfather survived the Holocaust, which gives David a profound perspective on what real pressure and struggle actually look like. What experiences in your own life or family history could you draw on to reframe the "struggles" you face in your work or personal life? He lives by the mantra "Why not me? Why not now?" and says that not being afraid to fail is a freedom. What opportunity are you currently overthinking or waiting on "permission" for? What would change if you asked yourself those two questions right now? David regrets missing parts of his daughters' childhoods while building his businesses, but his daughter told him, "We remember this dad more than that dad." Meaning it's never too late to make a change. What relationship in your life needs you to show up differently, and what's one concrete thing you could change this week? More Learning From The Learning Leader Show #126: Jayson Gaignard - Mastermind Talks #273: Chip Conley – How To Be Wise Beyond Your Years #476: Kat Cole - Reflection Questions, Humble Confidence, Building Trust Time Stamps: 01:51 David Edelman's Early Lessons in Business 03:58 Investing at a Young Age 06:12 Family History and Holocaust Survival 09:53 Balancing Ambition and Family 18:17 Sustaining Excellence and Learning from Others 25:38 The Art of Listening and Being Present 26:16 Lessons from Childhood and Parenting 26:47 The Story of Meeting My Wife 28:23 The Importance of Taking Risks 29:52 Sales and Leadership Philosophy 30:54 Building a Nationwide Business 32:07 Hiring and Promoting Leaders 35:34 Handling Controversy with Compassion 38:15 Investment Strategies and Favorite Ventures 41:36 The Future of Philadelphia's Arena Project 44:05 Advice for Young Professionals 46:45 EOPC

Welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Go to LearningLeader.com for show notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learningleader.com. Now on to tonight's featured leader. David Aedwin is the CEO of Campus Apartments, founder of Darko Capital, and co-owner of the Philadelphia 76ers. During our conversation, we discuss how losing a basketball bet at age 11 changed his life. Then we talk about investing his bar mitzvah money and real estate, becoming a CEO at age 25, his grandfather's Holocaust survival story and why it gives him so much perspective on struggle, embracing failure, the tradeoffs of building something excellent,

and what he looks for when hiring leaders, ladies and gentlemen, Please enjoy my conversation with David Aedleman. This episode is brought to you by Insight Global. I love the leadership team and the people at Insight Global. Insight Global is a staffing and professional services company dedicated to being the light to the world around them. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through talent or technical services, Insight Global's team of 30. thousand people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. Hiring can be tough, but hiring the right person can be magic. Visit Insightglobal.com slash learning leader today to learn more.

That's Insightglobal.com slash learning leader. Can we start when you're 11 years old? This is a crazy story. There's this family friend, Alan Horwitz, I believe. He challenges you to a basketball. ball game? Can you tell me about this? Like what happened when you're 11? Yeah. So, you know, I'm sure you have it. Everyone has that kind of friend or family friend that they call uncle who's not really their uncle, but like becomes like more than family. So I have this crazy Uncle Allen growing up and he's the family friend who was just like the cool guy, like always driving like cool cars when you're a kid. Like I remember he had like a core van. I thought that was like the coolest thing in the world. And I'm 11 years old and we're playing basketball. And I guess like as a kid, you're kind of like, I'll beat you. I'll bet you I can beat you. You know, guys like you

or I would probably let the 11-year-old kid win. I don't know. Would you? Maybe. I don't know. He's a really competitive guy. I mean, he's 83 today and he will like kill you for a quarter on the golf course, right? Like if you're trying to put or whatever, like he loves it. So he's just a high energy guy. And he just said, I'm going to teach you about betting. He's like, well, what do you want to bet? You know, I didn't have money. I'm 11. And he's like, how about that baseball glove? And I'm like, okay, and I lose. And I'm like, again, you know, I remember he's like, how about your football? Right?

So I literally, this happens for like 30 minutes. I lose my baseball glove, my football, my basketball. And then I don't know if you remember when you were a kid, but like you'd have like a bank book that was like your money in it, right? Okay. And I lose my bank book to him too. And my parents are dying laughing. Like, I don't know that like whatever.

And so like I had to go down to his office. So he's the founder of campus apartment. I'm actually sitting in this building, you know, 40 years later. He says, you got to come down here and stack lumber every Saturday and sweep sawdust, and I'll give you one item back. You have to work it off. He's like, it's called working off your debt. And I was like, okay, you know, I didn't know.

And my parents were like, this is great. Go do it. And, you know, each week I went down there, I got dirty. I pushed a broom with some sawdust. I had to move some stuff around, and I got one thing back. And so the story continued. that two years later. I'm 13 years old. I have my bar mitzvah and I have some gift money. And my parents are like, hey, do you want to give it to your grandfather? He was really good at picking

stocks and things like that. And I'm like, no, I want to give it to Uncle Allen and buy real estate. At 13. They're like, you want to do what? Like, they thought it was like the craziest thing in the world. And so literally, I get in the car with him and he goes, well, what building? And I said, well, what do you own? And, you know, where I am in Philadelphia right now is surrounding University of Pennsylvania's campus. Alan was one of the early pioneers in student housing where like he really thought that was like a dedicated asset class versus a hobby for somebody running out a duplex to a college kid, right? And so I drove around and I'm finally like that one. We get out, we look around and he's like, well, why this one? I said, because it's the biggest one you have.

I don't know shit about real estate at the time, but I'm like, okay. And so literally like, I hand him my $2,000 and I'm a partner in real estate. And like literally he taught me the business from a kid on. Wow. I feel like when you're 13 and you get $2,000, you're like, I want to go buy some video games. Hell yeah. Candy.

Right. Yeah. Jordans. Yeah. Music. How did you have this kind of foresight, this like adult viewpoint of, no, let me find a way to invest so that this thing can grow. Like, where did you learn that?

Well, it's funny because he would also like have these lessons about the value of a dollar. Yeah. And so, like, it just started resonating with me. And, like, I'm like, so it just felt like investing was the right thing. My parents were like, you got to invest it and you can't blow it on, you know, on candy and, you know, and sneakers. So, like, I knew I was going to have to do something with it. He was one of those entrepreneurs who, you know, never went to college, you know, was doing this from the time he was a kid. A really interesting story. His father died when he was 10 years old,

leaving him and his mother some real estate in a rough part of Philadelphia. And then he was with his mom at the University of Pennsylvania saw kids waiting outside a broker's office, like a realtor's office. And he's like, mom, kids are waiting in line for apartments. It's a captive audience here. So he had this epiphany as like a 16 year old kid. It was crazy. Wow. Wow. Okay. I love it. And I think going back to your family history, there's even more incredible stories, especially from your grandfather and the Holocaust. Can you tell me this story about your grandfather? Yeah. Thanks for asking. It's, you know, just a, he was a wonderful guy. And so, So it really gave me a lot of the values I have today.

And I built the Philadelphia Holocaust Memorial. And we named it after him and my uncle, actually. But just a really great guy who in Poland had a wife and two kids, gets rounded up by the Nazis, taken to a prisoner camp. And there's two lines, one for men, and then one for women and children, and never saw his wife and kids again. You know, they were obviously killed. And, you know, he was in a prison camp.

And the interesting thing about him is that he wound up, escaping from his prison camp. And there was a movie about this called Escape from Sobibor. He escaped from Osobor's prison camp. Then became a freedom fighter against the Nazis, got shot, and was in a hospital recovering. And there was a woman there with her brother, checking on her brother who was injured, sees a lonely soldier, like in the corner of the hospital unattended and goes over to just be like, the human thing like you okay whatever that's my grandmother and so literally meets my grandmother

in the hospital and my mother what was born after the war and what was most people don't know this but after they liberated you know america the u.s soldiers came and liberated the camps they didn't know what to do with all these people right they were pulled from around europe to these concentration camps so they set up what was called displaced persons camps like literally like these refugee camps where people it was not like that sat at but it was like until people get their life's together. So my mom was born in a displaced person's camp. And her passport still says, you know, like, you know, West Germany, right? There's not West Germany anymore, right? You know, then they moved to Israel for 10 years and then came to the States. My grandfather became a carpenter

here. It was a proud member of the Carpenter's Union here. So, you know, it's funny because I'm building this new arena in Philadelphia that we may talk about. And the Carpenter's Union, and when I told them the story about him, they found his union membership card from the 60s. So it's pretty wild. Wow, man. When you think about the stories of your grandfather, your grandmother, your parents, how does that impact you and how hard you work and how ambitious you are and how philanthropic you are, how you want to help others and serve? I can't even imagine with, that's not my family background. My family background is cool and I'm super grateful, but it's certainly not that. Like, how does that impact you as a leader, as a husband, as a dad,

as a community leader. I'm just curious the impact that has on you. Yeah, look, a lot to unpack there. But what I would say is it does a few things. One, no matter what, when I'm getting the crap kicked out of me in business or anything else, like, I don't know struggle. Okay. And so what it really taught me was, and I've been through some really like tough business situations and, you know, that's not pressure. And so I would think about my grandfather what he went through and I'm like, that guy knew pressure, right? And, you know, made it through the other side.

So, like, I'd kind of say, like, I have to stop being a little bitch about it and, like, kind of, like, lean in and let's go. And so I think what it does is, one, from the philanthropy perspective, you know, particularly in Holocaust education and things like that, like, I want people to know my grandfather's story. I don't do well with, you know, the Holocaust deniers. That doesn't sit well with me. And so I feel a duty from a educational perspective and a philanthropic perspective to fund those type of initiative. I think it's important for my kids and their kids to know about their grandfather and the others like him and what they went through. This may be a weird question, but as you're growing up, how important was it to you to become a wealthy person, meaning a guy who makes a ton of money? I definitely, you know, so I have this mentor and Uncle Allen.

My father was a psychologist, but like a successful one, like opened up mental health clinics. So I had people in my life that I watched. I had friends and their parents watch that I thought that I respected in business. And for me, you start off if you're in business to say like, well, it's about the money, right? I want to make money. You know, after you've done okay, it has to be about something else. You're like, why are you still going? And by the way, I have friends who have sold their businesses in their 40s or 50s.

They're like, I'm good. I'm out. I would be like, I. Really, though. Do you have because like I've seen the ones who do that guys who made a ton of money like you billionaires, whatever, you can't almost become that if you're able to turn it off. And I mean, there's good and bad parts about that. So, like, for me, I've seen those types and they're not really able to just chill.

They can for like a couple of days. And then it's like, wait, what am I doing next? What impact am I going to have on the world? Like, how am I going to help people? It just seems as though the people who are able to accomplish those big things, maybe have a big exit, whatever it is, they're not able to chill. It's not a part of their being. Yeah, so I agree with that.

I think what I have seen in my experience is the guys or gals who call it quits said, you know what, I'm okay. I'm comfortable, right? And they've defined what they're comfortable is. And, you know, maybe it's two vacations or through, but like they've got their budget and they're good or maybe they did well and they have the beach house and they're like, I hit my bid and I'm good. I agree with you.

Like, you know, the guys I roll with and the women in business, like, you know, for us, it's like, it's not about money, right? Like, you either are wired to get up and work hard every day and do it. And it has to be about something else. It can be about the people who work with you or for you and providing great opportunities for them and their families. It could be because you're solving complex problems or, like, you're creating a business that you're just so excited about.

Okay. And so for me, that's really the energy that I try to convey is that, like, do something really amazing and enjoy it. And so back to Uncle Allen, he always said to me, whatever you do in life, it shouldn't feel like work. So, you know, I have never, never said I'm going to work. I say I'm going to the office. And I think that's a real difference in how I think about things, right?

This isn't work. Now, am I tired sometimes? I'm run down and like there's some days where I wish the phone would stop ringing? 100%. Did I miss a lot of stuff with my kids if you were talking to them? Absolutely, right? And I have deep regret over that. So, like, you know, there's good and bad, you know, with success and money comes a price too.

I feel like to me it feels like work, but it doesn't feel like a job. Because you still work really, really hard, but it's not like a job. It just what you do. So the other part of your story, though, that I wanted to get to you, talk about Uncle Allen again. This was crazy to me. I read this. Tell me if this is true. He said, I realized that David would someday run the company because of his ambition.

And then you became the CEO at 25? how did this happen so what happened was alan had built this really successful business in philadelphia and he enjoyed his life like he enjoyed for him who was a self-made guy and came from not a lot of money i think for him it was like i'm not going to be greedy i'm going to build something great and i'm going to enjoy myself and so like he found that balance that i wish i had and some of my friends had and so i had this goal like as i started to start to really understand the student housing business and what was happening in this in the 1990s, no one was really doing it at a large scale nationally at the time. Okay.

It was a nascent business. And I saw this like white space of like, why aren't people doing this everywhere? And so like I live my life by this mantra, like, why not me and why not now? So like, you see all these ideas. And I'm like, well, fuck it. I'm kind of like, you know, why let's do it? Like, why not? Like, because I'm not afraid to fail.

And I think if you're not afraid to fail, and I think if you're not afraid to fail, it's a freedom. Do you draw from failures and your ability to bounce back? Are there examples of times when you went all out, you committed everything you had and you lost and you were able to bounce back? I'm curious where that comes from. Because I think it's easier said than actually done. It's sexy for us to say like, yeah, man, let's go. And if we fail, well, we fail. Who cares? But in reality, that's really, really hard to do. So how have you gotten good at that. It's a lot different when you're 33 versus 53 about how much you're willing to risk, right? So I might fail today. You know, I'm not going with chips all in either, right? So I have

failures along the way, but I also believe if you don't fail, like you're not trying hard enough. Like, and so I'm okay with that. So to answer your question, I think it really comes from the goal of, like, pushing yourself. And like, I have this other saying that when I'm mentoring kids, I'm like, embrace the suck. Okay. Like, not everything's going to be fun. And Some things are hard, but sometimes when you push through them, you get to another side of things. Sometimes you don't. And pulling the plug is okay if it's not working. Are there times when you had to pull the plug, when it sucked really bad and you just embraced it? What's the time that that happened?

I've had that happen in a lot of businesses where I'm back, you know, one part of my, and I don't know if we're talking about, but, you know, I spent a good part of my day, you know, kind of backing founders and other businesses and things where I become a partner and, you know, help somebody build their business. And I've gotten good at understanding like, hey, that business, might be a great opportunity, a great idea, and the wrong time. And so, like, sometimes you have to make that decision of like, hey, you know what, this isn't the right thing.

It's time to call it. Take our losses. And, you know, look, I think failure today is more financial than, you know, emotional or psychological or what it could be earlier in your career. I like to think about tradeoffs as we're building something special. You kind of briefly brought up the thought of, you know, your dad, your husband. And so sometimes there are tradeoffs. You miss things that you're trying to build some.

How do you, I don't like the word balance, but how do you manage the tradeoffs that sometimes it takes of, hey, I'm going to miss out on this business opportunity to be with my family and or, hey, I'm going to miss out on time with my family because I need to go meet with LeBron James or something to invest in his tequila company. Whatever. How do you think about tradeoffs as you're building something as you're building something as you're building something? And so I think earlier in your. career, whoever it is, if you aren't willing to make sacrifices and build that foundation for the future, that's okay. Like being an entrepreneur might not be for you. And so, like, for me, I made choices along the way to miss certain things my wife and kids. Now, I look back and I say, were all those things that I missed worth it? Probably not. Okay. You reflect. My daughters are 21 and 23 now. And, you know, I missed a lot of their early growing up and things that I wish I didn't. And the only thing you can do about that is make up for it later on. And so, like, my older one, my 23-year-old, about four years ago, you know, because I try to

apologize to that whenever it comes up, because I'm like, hey, I'm sorry if I missed that or whatever. And, you know, my older one's like, you know, we remember this dad more than that dad. And so, like, the point to that is it's never too late to make a change. But to your only point, like, how do you know? I think when you're building a business or building what you want your career to be, and, you know, for me, my career isn't one thing. It's kind of multidimensional, and it's driven by curiosity.

And so, like, sometimes I'm like, hey, I just got to go to this conference and I got to go hear about this. And like, now, you know, I'm able to like, so the benefit now is, you know, I'm an empty nest or so I'll bring my wife with me where before I left my wife and kids at home, right? So at least like I'll be able to like go to do something in her day and hang out with my wife for dinner or later, whatever, you know, trying to get my, my youngest daughter is a senior in college and I'm like, hey, she's a little more predisposed to business. My older one is a teacher. And I'm like, hey, do you want to come to this business thing with me? Right. So can I do it where I

incorporate them into the mix here? I love that. Like you spend the bulk of your time around leaders who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time, whether they're professional athletes, they own sports team like you do. Again, do a crazy, incredible philanthropic work. When you think about all of those people, David. This may take a second to think about, but when you think about them, what have you found to be some of the commonalities among those who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time? I think the drive and the goal to succeed. And so in sports, let's just take sports, I'm not going to name names, but when you see the athletes that show up for practice early, stay afterwards, and this is about them making themselves better, doing certain

things, putting the time in. When I see business people who have already had achieved enormous success, and they do other great things. Like, you know, case and point, I have two great partners in the Sixers, Josh Harris and David Blitzer. Josh was the founder of Apollo, an amazing private equity shop. You know, he retires from there. And then, you know, even though he's running sports teams, he goes and starts another unbelievable private equity firm, right? And he's crushing it. You know, David Blitzer, my partner, you know, is a really savage. investor. He's the first guy in the country to have owned an interest in all five pro sports leagues. And so it makes me feel better to know that I'm not the only one who's wiring is

broken, right? Because when you surround yourself with a bunch of people. Is it broken, though? Why? You know, it's different, right? It's not conventional. Okay. I think it's not, you know, when what we're conditioned to learn is go to work, come home, do these things. I think it's changing now in the startup and founder environment where I think you're seeing people probably conditioned too much to the other side, and we could talk about this, I think too many people think they're slated to be an entrepreneur or founder. And what I advise people is you can be a great entrepreneur, but sometimes you might be better suited to be an entrepreneur in somebody else's business. Isn't the conventional path pretty boring? To me it is, right? To me it is. I like, I couldn't do it.

Have you always been that way since 11, since before that? I've always been that way that I was a underachiever in college, low SAT, low GPA. Like, you know, for me, like, I just wanted to get in the working world. Like, that was for me. That's what I wanted. So do you think this is a wiring from birth or is it Uncle Allen's influence and others? It's kind of a nature versus nurture question, but I'm just curious because I like to think and have a growth mindset that this is available. But there are some things that you're probably just kind of born.

with, but I'd be curious to get your thoughts. I think you have to be born with some of it, but I think you also have to be willing. The entrepreneurs that I see very successful are the ones that are open to learning. So like, I don't think I'm the smartest guy in the room. And, you know, I continue to want to learn about other people's businesses. You know, it could be the widget business that I know nothing about.

And you'll see me like, if I meet somebody somewhere, I'm like, well, tell me about that business. I just want to learn about it. And so like, I think if you have that engagement, inquisitive mind. So for me, I look at it. I'm like, how do I solve that problem? Whatever that problem is. So some guys tell me he's in the widget business and I'll think like 10 things they should try to do. Like it's not my business, but you know, why not? Just your mind is set up to always be asking questions, to be thinking of potential solutions to problems and then having those

conversations with people. Yeah. So part of it is like I definitely have like ADD and a touch of OCD, which is a weird combination. So I obsess over like really minutia bullshit things for a short period of time. Like what? Like it could be anything in like, you know, so I'm a develop, you know, my day job's a real estate guy, right? So I'm building a new arena for the Sixers and the flyers in Philadelphia. Okay. It's a $1.5, $1.6 billion project. And like the stuff that I'm texting our guys about to like think about from like, you know, how the lights should be, you know, make sure we put up a drink rail. And so the latest one was literally, I'm like, hey, we need to make sure that when a guy

goes to the bathroom and he's standing in the urinal, we have drink rails. I love it. I love those little details. Right? Because no one does that. Like very few people do it. And I'm like, everyone walks in there with a beer or soda or bottle of water. Like, where are you putting it when you're out of urinal, right?

Yeah. And so like it's minutia that I think about. But it drives me, right? It drives me to be great. It drives me to have our teams be great. So I think of like another arena that's a newer one that seems to be different. is Steve Ballmer's with the Clippers. So would you just like call or text Bomber and say,

hey, man, can we talk through like some of the cool stuff you did? Maybe some of the mistakes you made. Is that like part of your process when you're building an arena? So, you know, we just, it's funny. We just toured Steve's arena and, you know, his president, she was terrific. She took us around. She answered all our questions like, hey, lessons learned, troubles along the way. You're two years into it.

What's not wearing well? Like, all of that. So what's really great about sports is, As we were narrowing our selection on the architects or the contractors, I spoke to owners of like a handful of the newest football stadium teams, basketball, like just lessons learned about the process, you name it. And for me, like, I am never too embarrassed to say, like, I don't know something. Yeah. One of the things I talk to kids about when I mentor is like most people, I think that's as kids are afraid to say, I don't know or I don't understand. I don't know,

man. I think it's a superpower that it seems like you've got it. Yes, everyone's got an ego. to a certain extent. And you've had sustained excellence over time. So that would maybe lead people to think that, like, you know it all. And obviously you don't. Like, nobody does, especially when you're doing new things that maybe you haven't done before. I think coming at it like a beginner and being curious actually leads to really deep. I mean, this is what this podcast is.

It leads to really deep conversations where you're a lot better off because you had zero fear of looking stupid. Like no fear. And I get that sense from you that like, why, why does it matter? I'm just going to ask. If I'm thinking it, let's ask. And I bet the people you're asking, enjoy it. They probably like the fact that you're that way. I think so.

I like when people ask me questions. I say this to groups all the time. And our employees, like if you're embarrassed for looking stupid, isn't it worse if you don't know what you're doing down the road because you didn't ask someone how? Like, you know, so to me it just shows you're listening when you're like, I don't understand that. Could you repeat that, you know? I think curiosity, man, is.

an ultimate act of love. Especially when you're learning about other people and asking them questions, that's how you build deep, meaningful relationships with people. It's just being genuinely into them and genuinely curious about their stories. And in your case, you can be genuinely curious about them, their business, what they're doing, and you could learn for what you're trying to do, right? Like build an arena is a crazy project. I mean, that's insane.

It doesn't happen that often. And so to do it, you might as well say, hey, I can be the dumbest guy in the room. I can ask those questions. I think that could, there's a lot of life lessons from that, I think. Do you take that into other areas of your life, just always going around asking about the most basic things in order to learn so that you can improve? Yeah, well, look, Ryan, what you're really talking about is like people don't know how to listen

anymore. Yeah. People wait to talk, right? And they don't listen. And I think that is like a really terrible thing happening right now with folks is that they're not thinking about what they can get from actually staying focused. And look, everyone's 80, everyone's on their phones, whatever. You know, so it's funny, my youngest daughter, when I have dinner with her,

I hand her my phone so that I won't be on my phone during the day. You know what I mean? You're going to do what you got to do, man. Well, I just want to be, like, I want to be there. I want to be attentive, but you want to absorb it, right? Like, why are you wasting time meeting with people if you're not going to listen to them? Yeah. What have you learned from your childhood from those stories at 11 and 13 and moving,

on that you've tried to instill in your two daughters that they're not going to be exactly like you they're probably wired a little bit differently but they do have your DNA so what have you taken from your upbringing and your childhood that you try to instill in them i think first is make lots of mistakes just don't make the same one twice okay like just try hard and two like don't be afraid to put yourself out there the worst thing that happens is someone says no okay i joke with everyone like i met my wife in a bar okay literally i was in line trying to get a slice pizza and this beautiful girl is in front of me and I was like, I got to talk to her, right? Like, how'd you open?

I was, I just said something like, I was like, you know, I got to ask who you are. Like, I haven't seen you. Like, it's something, like, it wasn't like cheesy bar line, but it was like, I don't know if was my smoothest moment. There's a whole backstory that two different people had told me about this girl and it turned out to be her that I'd never called. What? Yeah, it's a crazy story.

So literally, it's actually a great story. So two different women had told me about this really nice, sweet school teacher that I needed to call, that she was amazing. But everyone just focused about how great she was. So, like, you know, when your grandmother would be like, oh, I have a really nice girl for you. And, you know, like, eh, you know. And that night, we're at the bar. I went with my best friend. He's chatting some girl up in the corner.

And I was like, I'm going to leave because I would stay, I'm staying at his parents' house. This is like 25 or 26. And I go in line for the pizza. I meet this girl. And, like, I realize that she's this. And I'm like, you're the school teacher? And she's like, yeah. When I said my name, she's like, oh, I think I've heard your name.

I'm like, yeah, I was like, you were supposed to call me. And I was like, oh, my God, you're, I was like, God, if I knew you, like, it was really bad. I was like, if I knew you looked like this, I would have called it. I said something stupid, right? Yeah. But the funny part is the girl that my buddy was talking to was her best friend. They all went there that night.

He wound up marrying her. I married Haley. And our kids are best friends. Crazy story. Oh, my God. I love it. I love those stories. You got to have some guts, though, right?

You got to ask. You got to be willing. And you've probably been rejected before, right? You've been rejected. That's part of the deal of, don't be weird or like, this is one of things I'm concerned with is the, how easy it is to meet people on your phone when it's a lot more healthier,

I think, and better for all of us if you're willing to approach somebody. I had a dating coach on recently, Blaine, and Blaine was awesome. We talked all about this about the willingness and the ability to approach someone respectfully. But then, you know, maybe sound kind of stupid at times, but that's okay. Of course, that's part of it. Yeah. Like, not everything should be scripted.

Like, you know, I'm only imagining now that people in these dating apps are like using chat, CBT to write their approach lines, right? It's probably built in. I don't know. It's insane. And so, like, you know, the whole part of the chase and like all of that is like the excitement about it. And by way, it's not dissimilar from business.

right? Yeah. You take that one step further. Like, I hate work from home because I think people are just screwed of the opportunity to interact with people and better their career and learn about things. It feels to me like I could be making this up, that you are, by the way, my first 12 years of my professional career after playing football was as a sales professional. And I think it's the most noble profession in the world.

The economy would come to a screeching halt if we didn't have great sales professionals. So I say this as a giant compliment. I feel like you are probably really good in the sales process and probably have been since you were young. What do you think about like the profession of selling? I mean, you're a CEO at 25. CEO's got to sell all the time, whether it's internally to your team or externally. You've got to raise money.

You're doing all types of selling. What's your overall philosophy and the way you look at sales? Don't bullshit people. That's my number one goal. I think people will tell, they know. And so, you know, even at an early age, I had to. the humility to say, I don't know everything. Here's my business plan. I'm taking this industry. That's kind of new. Here's why I'm expanding it. I think it's about the people and I would

help develop our staff and then move them to new locations. So I had a vision without the foundational education of it, but just like the idea of like why I thought I could scale campus apartments across the country and do it, you know, at a time when that wasn't done. Now there are tons of huge student housing companies across the country and across the world. You guys were the first? We wanted a handful. There was like, a handful of folks that were doing this in a way, and we were certainly one of the two or three at the time. What made you believe this could be a nationwide thing? So what told me it could be is I was going to real estate conferences when I was like 25, 26, and you would have a joke,

but you'd have like the apartment guys, the office guys, and the shopping center guys, and they wouldn't let the student housing guys sit at their table. Like most people at that time, like 20 years ago, were like, oh, student housing is crappy real estate, it's animal house. you whatever and I was like holy shit either they're all right or I'm right well one of us is right okay then I was kind of like I know the returns we're making I know the need that's there and then I was like fuck it I hope none of them come in this business right like because I was like just stay away like keep doing your thing and then it's interesting like during the great recession in 2008 2008 2009 when retail went really bad and other things those guys all tried to come into our business and you know get into

it like saying everything I've been saying for years you know captive audience slow and steady business, mom and dad are always going to be the paid to rent. All those things that I thought, you know, a long time ago, we're holding true. So as you're growing a business, the people that you choose to bring on to your team or everything, whether it's a sports team, whether it's, it's your early days. And so hiring is crucial, right? Especially hiring and promoting leaders. I'm curious, David, what are some of the must have attributes? Like, what do you look for when you're hiring and or promoting someone to be a leader that works for you. I think one is trust.

I need to trust them. Two is creating an open line of communication. Three, I don't think you're a successful leader or CEO if you're not willing to listen. There are a lot of dictator type of CEOs. That's not me. Some of them work. I don't manage from fear. I manage from kind of bringing in opinions.

And so for me, I think it's about having people that who in their individual swim lanes are better at those jobs than you are. Interesting. So I feel like life comes down to people in relationships and like you said, trust and belief that that person's a value added resource and that they have the combination of competence and integrity. That's just how life works, right? But that should be valuable, valued in any position in your company, right? It shouldn't matter. So think about our real estate business campus apartments. What we determined a long time ago, was that the person who had the most interaction with our customers, our residents, we've got about 25,000 residents across the country, was not the property manager,

not the vice president of leasing, but the maintenance person on the property. And so, like, what we realized was training them to interact with our customers was paramount, and the trust you have in them and the training was really important. And so we focused hugely on making sure that that person, understood what the resident was going through. Thought to ask. So on our work orders, if they were going to fix your leg switch, he would say, hey, Jennifer, I noticed that you and your roommates haven't renewed your lease yet.

And like, we would just give information. And they would figure out, Jennifer would say, oh, you know, I'm not getting along with my roommates. Like, it could have been anything, but they'll get the real answer, right? And so he might go back and say to the leasing manager, hey, Jennifer, an apartment 205 is having roommate trouble. Maybe we want to talk about getting them in different apartment next year, right? So, like, we thought that that data was valuable and we still use it today. Wow. I love that. The maintenance person, they have their guard down. They don't feel like they're being sold to, but going the extra mile to train them to learn and be curious ends up being a big

part of your business. Take about that. That's in any business. How are you greeted when you walk into arena, okay, that person's swiping your ticket. Welcome. All of those things that you can do to give somebody a great experience where that's somebody's night out, that's somebody's spending their hard-earned money. Like, I think it comes back to respecting people's time and money. And I feel like we've lost a lot of that in a society. And so, like, common courtesy matters to me. It matters to the businesses I'm invested in where it's like, hey, let's treat people well. And let's like appreciate the fact that they spent money on whatever the product we're selling is. Well, I just like the fact that you, one, are thinking of that.

And then two, care enough to say, hey, let's do the extra work to show how much we care about the little things because those end up being the big things. Let's treat people with respect. Let's genuinely care for them. I think that makes a huge difference. I also was reading a story about, was this the Sean Jackson? I think he was just kind of ill-informed about. some things and made some bad comments, how you, I feel like, handled that situation really well.

Yeah. You know, what happened in that regard was, I think that, and this was probably, God, five years ago, maybe even longer, but Deshaun had made some any Semitic comments. And I had friends that were friends with him. And like, some people shoot first and ask questions later, right? I don't, I just don't roll that way. So I was kind of like, I need to figure. And so at the time I was, you know, in Philadelphia, I'm kind of a leader in the Jewish community and, you know, some of the organizations. So people came to me and said, like, hey, we need to cancel this guy or fuck this guy.

Like, all these different things. And I was like, you know what? Before, like, I get there, like, I actually just want to find out what his intent was. And so a mutual friend of ours set me up, Michael Rubin, actually, is for closer to Sean. And we got together. And I was like, you know what? Like, the things he said were based on some, that he was just uninfluenced. which related to the hurtfulness of those words versus stuff that he heard.

And not only was he willing to understand that, but he went one step further and said, can you take me to your Holocaust Memorial in Philadelphia and actually educate me? And I'll forget, he came with his mom, you know, no press. We just walked around and talked. Wow. And so, like, to me, like, it would just be nice to be able to, like, you know, take a moment before you're ready to convict somebody and, like, actually have a conversation. Well, I think there's so much learning from that, especially today, like right now today, of being quick to judge when we really should be quick to be curious about situations. Yes, there are times when people maybe are, like, have hate in their heart. But this is a good guy who was uninformed and made a mistake. And instead of you and everybody else is saying, let's just get rid of this guy, I love that you had an open mind and you led with curiosity as opposed to judgment. And now, you know, he's

better informed and he's like, oh, wow. And he probably feels better, too, about this David guy cared for me and he cares for me enough to be curious and that, like the ripple effect, man. Do you think about that? Like, the ripple effect is far and wide when you approach people that way. I think it's always harder to stop and take a minute and slow down than to just proceed, right? Yeah. But like, look, and I can't tell you that I lived my whole life that way. I think experience is the best teacher, right? And I think you get older. You get some experience, you start thinking about this stuff, and that helps you kind of get to this point to call a time out. You invest a lot as well. It's part of your business. When you're looking at

an investment opportunity, a company, a founder, whatever, what is it that you're looking for? What makes you say, yep, okay, I'm going to write a check for that? You know, first, I really have to understand the product, right? Like, do I understand it? Or I joke, do my kids at least understand it? now, right? Because in case I don't, and I'm serious. Like, I'll call my daughter and I'll be like, hey, do one of you guys understand this? And they're like, oh, dad, that's great, you know. So, you know, that'll be number one. Number two, who's the founder? Okay. People matter. And I judge everything I do when I'm investing that before it starts, and as I get to know this person, I'm like, if this thing goes bad, and as long as the guy's not a crook or a criminal,

would I invest with him again or her? The people matter. especially in small startups where, you know, they're out there with their product or, you know, idea. And then also, I have to be more than just money in the deal. And that's counter to a lot of people. I like knowing when my influence and input can help make a difference. It feels like a sense of pride to me. And if I know I can make a difference, you know, it's like, you know, advisor, mentor, board member, whatever that is. Yeah, how would you make a difference like introductions, sharing your knowledge, all of the above? What are the ways that you add value to those deals? Yeah, I think it's strategic thinking. Yeah. I think it's introductions, and I think it's,

you know, be a sounding board. You know, the hardest part of being a founder is they're afraid to tell, you know, their investors bad news, right? And so teaching them that like, hey, bad news doesn't get better with time. Like, you know, some of these founders are really young. And so I'm like, let's like, you know, and they think they have to be guarded and all this stuff. And it's like, hey, let me just, you know, give you some thoughts on how to do this. What's one of your favorite investments and or founders that you've backed that you've been a part of? I look, I have a handful. There is a fintech that I'm involved with. They're actually Philly based. So it's kind of, you know, affection to me. A close friend of mine was one of the

pioneers of the old internet bank, ING direct. So it was kind of like a, you know, the first internet bank about 15 years ago. I don't know if you remember that. And then he partnered with two brothers in Philly who were on the tech side and really savvy. And we created this great fintech called credit. And we created kind of this debit card that could create an established credit for people in a different matter than a credit card does. So where you're using debit, not credit.

it's kind of a really smart product, great interface, one of the best I've seen, and built this whole infrastructure that today can also power, you know, where this, it's always like, where's the puck headed? Well, now stable coin issuance and all of that, these guys can be the rails to which that works on. And so really cool product based here in Philly. It's just been a fun story. Philly's got more of that than I think people realize, right? It's kind of a, it's kind of a startup scene. It's getting there. You know, it's not New York or, or, you know, Silicon Valley or Miami, but like, Philly's got a great vibe. Like, if you don't understand it, you kind of look like what is it, but like proximate in New York and D.C., great sports culture,

great food scene, cost of living is reasonable. Like, I think it's got it going on. Yeah. So I'm a big Philly cheerleader, you know. I'm curious about the future of Philly, this arena project. What was it like for you to kind of take control of it and run it? And now it's in, emotion, what's it been like for you? What was it like getting it, all of that stuff? Yeah, you know, it's been an interesting journey. Now, you know, and so it started off where the Sixers, where we were going to build our own arena in downtown Philadelphia. It was a arduous process. You know, it was kind of unique. And, you know, one of the few times, you know, not only time, but a few times where I really, you know, just, I said to my wife, I said, we're going

to build this arena. You know, my partner, Josh and David and I were like, we're going to do something really special here. We're going to build it in downtown Philly, bring it back to life, not take any city capital, and also do some really good things for the city. People are going to love us. It's going to be great. Yeah, not everyone believe that. And so we had a process. We had a fight. We did it. We ultimately got it approved. But then, you know, for the good of the city, we came back together with Comcast, who owns the Flyers, and we're doing a great building together. And I'm excited about it because it's going to be the best live entertainment venue in the world, located in Philadelphia. We're going to open in 2030. We just got announced a WNBA team that we're

bringing into Philly. That'll start that season as well. So like, you know, for those of you who are like counting Philly out, like you're wrong. Give us a chance because like we're doing great shit here. I love it. I had read that one of your core tenants of life was unconditional compassion. Can you tell me more about this core tenant of your life, unconditional compassion? Yeah, you know, I don't know if it's unconditional. I think it goes back to kind of the Deshaun thing, right? Like, you know, I think that like I start with, you know, being reasonable and then decide if I'm going to go crazy or not, right?

And so I think this stemmed from a, that somebody vandalized and put a swastika on, on the Holocaust Memorial in 2024. And yeah, that's where I read this story. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, look, obviously I wasn't happy. And obviously, I put up money for a reward to find the person. We didn't. I paid for cameras.

I did things to help. Yeah, so, like, it's not about the compassion. I think it's about, like, you can either be frustrated and, like, it turns to hate or you can just, like, try to say, like, look, let's try and educate people. And so I think it just reinforced the need for a place like that in Philadelphia and in the world to have a place for education. Got you. It makes sense.

I'm curious when you mentioned a few times throughout the course of our conversation, David, that things you try to say when you meet with people who are a bit earlier in their career. And so I am curious, think about like maybe a college grad or somebody who's early to mid-20s and they want to leave a positive dent in the world like you're doing. But they're not 100% sure yet what they want to do. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice you give to that person? Yeah, I think it's try to get noticed for the right reasons, which is why I friendly believe, like, you know, show up and go to work and, you know, go get coffee when you see your boss's boss there. who wouldn't know you because you're on some random Zoom. Okay.

Don't be afraid to introduce yourself. Put yourself out there. I think so. I think doing things like that are important for your career, asking lots of questions, being the guy in the room or girl in the room who didn't understand something and says, like, could you explain that to me? Because I think folks in my position really respect that.

Because they get that most people are too afraid to do that. And then like, don't be afraid to put out a bad idea. Think about all these people in these different companies where something great habit because somebody had an idea and had the courage to come forth with it. It could have been a piece of technology. It could have been anything. But like, don't be shy. Love it. David, this's been amazing, man. I appreciate you and I appreciate your team connecting us. It's really, really cool, getting to know you and just doing all of the reading leading up to this. Where would you send us to learn more about you online? Yeah, you know, my family office, Darko Capital. We've got a pretty good

website. It shows what we're doing, the companies we're invested in, talks about Philly and how important that is to me and philanthropy as well. Nice. Why'd you name it that? You're going to laugh. So when I needed a name for my family office, I was like, you know, everyone has these cool names and like, you know, Blackstone and Apollo and, you know, all these companies had great names. And I'm like, you know, why am I going to call my thing, right? And like, I didn't know that my thing would be what it is today either, right? We just started investing and it turned out to be okay. And so literally Darcoe, D-A-R-C-O, David Edelman Realty Company.

Okay? Like, I mean, because now people like, people know Darko out there, but they're like, no one knows what it is. But like, I literally was so not creative.

Like, that's not this. I think it sounds cool. I was like, it sounds cool now, but when you're like, you couldn't think of it, you're like trying to draw stuff out.

It was, yeah. I love it, man. Well, thanks again for being here, man. I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress,

man. Yeah, come visit in Philly, man. We'll go to a six or, game, we'll have dinner. We'll do the whole scene. I'm in, man.

I'm in. I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you. It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club. If you are, send me a note, Ryan at learning leader.com.

Let me know where you learn from this great conversation with David Edelman. A few takeaways from my notes. Why not me? Why not now? David's mantra cuts through all the over-deut. thinking and excuses we make when he saw all these other people building national real estate portfolios. He didn't wonder if it was possible. He asked why he couldn't do it.

So I think the lesson we can learn is to stop waiting for permission, stop waiting for the perfect moment, ask ourselves, why not me? Why not now? And then make mistakes just not the same one twice. David doesn't expect perfection from himself or his team. He expects learning. if you fail or if you make a mistake, learn from it. Do not make the same one twice, right?

It's all about embracing the suck, but evolving through it. And then that story about his grandfather, incredible, survived the Holocaust after his wife and children were killed. He escaped, joined the resistance, and rebuilt his life from nothing. And when David thinks about that, he says, no matter what, I don't know real struggle. I think that's useful perspective. Most of what we call struggle is probably just discomfort.

And I think understanding that, it doesn't really necessarily make your challenges disappear, but it does make them perhaps more manageable. If your grandfather could survive the unthinkable, you can probably handle the hard day in front of you. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with David Adelman.

I think it will help you become a more effective leader because you continue to do that. And you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts and you subscribe to the show. Rate it. Hopefully five stars. Write a thoughtful review by doing all that. You are giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much.

Talking to soon. Can't wait.