The Level Up Podcast w/ Paul Alex - From Law Enforcement to Top Sales Coach: Sean Wray's Journey to Success

Episode Date: October 19, 2024

In this episode of The Level Up Podcast w/ Paul Alex, Paul sits down with Sean Wray, a former cop turned one of the top sales coaches in the digital marketing world. Sean shares his journey from law enforcement to becoming a powerhouse in sales, running successful sales teams, and hosting his first conference, Sales Con, in Miami. They dive into the mindset needed to excel in sales, how to build a winning sales team, and tips for transitioning careers. If you're looking to level up in sales or entrepreneurship, this episode is packed with actionable insights!Check Out Sean!Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sean.wray.169/Website: hardlyselling.com“Your Network is your NETWORTH!”Make sure to add me on all SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS:Instagram: https://jo.my/paulalex2024Facebook: https://jo.my/fbpaulalex2024Youtube: https://jo.my/ytpaulalex2024Linkedin: https://jo.my/inpaulalex2024Looking for a secondary source of income or want to become an entrepreneur?Check out one of my companies below to see if we can help you:www.ATMTogether.comwww.Merchantautomation.comFREE Copy of my book “Blue to Digital Gold - The New American Dream”www.officialPaulAlex.com

Welcome to the Level Up Podcast. I'm your host, Paul Alex. I went from being a cop to an eight-figure entrepreneur that helps average people like you and me make money every single day. I created this podcast to help you get motivated and to crush your goals. Let's win together.

Remember, I have your six. Get ready to level up right now. Hey guys, and welcome to the Level Up Podcast. I'm gonna be your host, Paul Alex. I'm here with a very special guest. He's actually a close friend of mine. He's a former copper as well. You guys know my law enforcement history here, but also he became one of the top sales coaches

in the online digital marketing world. Sean Ray. Sean, how are you doing today, brother? I'm good, brother. Thanks for having me. Oh no, absolutely. Dude, I had to today, brother? I'm good, brother. Thanks for having me. Oh, no, absolutely. Absolutely, dude. Dude, I had to go ahead and get you on the pod.

I know you got SalesCon, which is your first conference here in Miami. Dude, how'd it go? Phenomenal, man. Like, when you put a bunch of like 1% sales reps in one room, sales leaders, business owners, magic happens, you know? It was a great event.

So we are doing another one next year. So I hope you're there. We'll have you on stage next time, right? Dude, dude, I have to attend, but as you know, man, I had to come back as a CEO to one of my businesses and I had to rebuild. I had to rebuild the sales process. And I think, you know, when you first came into the office,

we were talking about, you know, building a great team, atmosphere, the culture. So I think this is gonna be a great episode Yeah for you to actually talk about, you know sales what it takes to build a great sales team Yeah, and then overall I just want to get into your head Let's go ahead and start with your background, brother. How did you get into what you're doing now? What did you do before? Obviously, you were a copper. But what got you into the sales industry, brother?

Interesting. So, I was, obviously, you know, 13 years. And I got to kind of the space in my life where it was just like, well, I'm doing something, but I'm not really fulfilled. And, you know, you know, as well as I do, it takes a lot to move from doing what we do. And, you know, we don't get paid well for it. We just sacrifice for it. But it was it was it was great camaraderie and it was it was a really great purpose, a really great mission.

But I think one of the real things for me was I just kind of felt the purpose wasn't there anymore. And I didn't feel like I was really serving in a way that I really wanted to. And it was really weird. I went to an exposition event in London. And I don't know whether I'll say his name or not, but I'm gonna say it anyway, Donald Trump was speaking. And you know, his story for me, I was like,

do you know what? I wanna be able to tell stories like that. And I wanna be able to put myself in a position where I've gone through adversity and I've come out the other side of it. So I kind of, in that moment, again, it was really weird. I just kind of had a moment of self-reflection and I thought, do you know what?

There is something that needs to change because it'll just be more of the same for the next 20, 30 years because let's face it, we were never gonna get sacked from that job, do you know what I mean? We could just coast in and been where we were. So I made a decision, networked my face off and then someone that I knew got me into the Rich Dad Porto organization. So I started, you know, ground up, outbound dialing, events team, all that kind of stuff. And I absolutely loved it. So I spent six, seven years on the event circuit, just going around seminar speaking, doing all that kind of stuff, you know, like go to the back of the room, that type of thing.

So I was the sales guy there. Then eventually I was a seminar speaker. And then I got into high tech sales about eight years ago and just loved it. Fell in love with sales. Like I'm obsessed by it. Dude. So, so, so real quick to go back to what you were saying, how did you find out about actually getting in into sales? Like the sales industry. So if we got other coppers, which obviously like half my audience,

so they're going to be like, well, I'm pretty good at talking. And I resonate with Sean about fulfillment and passion because I felt the same way, dude. And that's why I transitioned out of law enforcement. It was like, dude, I gotta do something for myself. I gotta do something for my mom. So if somebody's trying to get into sales, what would be the path of least resistance, Sean? Like, what would you tell them now? Yeah, listen to you. I mean, in all honesty, like, your network is the fundamentals of where you start, because I only got in through someone I knew. And so, of course, you can go and be a, you know, car salesperson.

You can go and sell homes about traditional stuff. But what we do is kind of alien to people. So it's kind of like reach out to someone like you and say, hey, man, I'm a cop. What what we do is it's kind of alien to people. So it's kind of like reach out to someone like you and say, Hey, man, I'm a cop, what do I do? And we know the path, because we're well connected. But you know, essentially, you've got to learn how to do it first. I mean, obviously, please, obviously, we're great communicators. And we're great leaders. And I think that's one of the one of the one of the skill sets we were just talking about. As a copper, you're a phenomenal leader. You should be. There's always one that's here.

You should be, guys. All right. You, you're a leader. So you know how to command people, you know how to communicate with people, you're intuitive, you've got EQ, you've got IQ. But you need to put it into a structure that makes sense to having a conversation. I mean, in the world we live in, you're taking a complete stranger from zero to investing 15, 20, 35, 40 thousand dollars. That's not an easy thing to do. So it's taking the skill set that you have and organizing it into a process and getting really good at that process. And same way as you, Copper, you put the work in and you get the results out.

But by hard goddamn work and focus and dedication, take the skill set that you already have, learn the skill set that's missing, and just apply the same work ethic. That's why you are where you are and that's why I'm where I am is because we put the work in. But the other side of that is knowing what work to put in. And I think that that's where, you know, having connections with someone like you, and if you are following this podcast, it's difficult to get into this industry unless you have someone that can direct you and put you in that direction. And ultimately, it's not what you know, it's who you know. And from there, you've got to get some sales training.

Like you just have to, there's no shortcut to this because, and you know what it's like running an elite team. You can't just walk into this stuff because you've got to perform. And you've got to come into a cutthroat industry and be able to cut your teeth with people that have been doing it longer than you have. So there are no excuses. You have to just step up. You have to do the work and you have to do whatever it takes to get the result on the back end. So yeah, learn the skill, be relentless with it and don't give up and quit because it's easy to succeed when

you have the right mindset. No, it makes perfect sense. And go back to mindset, mindset is everything. I think mindset is what separates what we would call proactive police and the report takers or police that are more reactive. I have to bash my people out there. I love the blues, right? But this is coming from a civilian now, we're civilians. At the end of the day, we speak the truth and we're very transparent and it is what

it is. You have to put in effort with everything that you do in life. So to get into that, let's talk about what it takes to build a great sales team, man, because you're the expert, dude. You're the expert. This is your field. With me, I'm big on delegation. So let's say for the people watching right now, because I'm pretty sure we have a lot of marketers are

going to be watching this and first time business owners, and they need people to sell for that. So what should they be looking out for when they're looking to hire a closer or let's say a sales development rep or let's say a consultant. What would be your top three recommendations to look out for? The first thing is being ready because I see business owners jump into hiring a sales rep too quick and if you haven't sold it, don't delegate it. Because you can't teach someone to do something you've never done. Like one of the reasons why we got on Famously is because if me and you need to jump on a phone right now, we would just do it.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because we've done it. And I think that as a business owner, you need to be A, ready. So you need to have sold your own product or service. You need to have a sales process. You know, we spoke about that before. If you don to have a sales process. We spoke about that before. If you don't have a sales process,

it's kind of like someone, you're asking someone to go into a kitchen, a McDonald's kitchen without a process and say, hey, make a Big Mac. Okay? You need a process, you need a system. You need to have led from the front. So here are my calls.

This is how I do it. This is how I close it. This is how I close it. And you need to have good lead flow. You need to have good systems, good processes, and you need to have a good recruitment pipeline and you need to have a good onboarding process. And you need to be the leader that's ready to actually take someone on as well. So the first part is just being ready to take someone on because you can't delegate something you haven't done and you haven't proven to work because all you're going to do is just get frustrated with the person that's coming in.

You can't like it's fair enough like buying experience. That's great. But if the experience doesn't have a process, then it's just, it's just potential is just wasted. Right. So you have to have done it yourself. You have to because even if you're bringing in a talent, they might not have sold to that particular avatar before or solved that particular not have sold to that particular avatar before

Solve that particular problem for or offer that particular solution before so yeah, I can bring in great sales talent But if you haven't got a process, it's just wasted. So that'll be the first thing I say the second thing is You've got to be ready to lead a team Just because you're a business owner doesn't mean they're a leader Yeah, and I see it so many times. You probably see it more than I do, to be honest. And it's like you're not ready to take on another human being at the moment because you've just never done it before.

And if you've never done it before, you need some guidance on that one because it's going to be a horrible time for you otherwise, and it's going to be super stressful. You know, there are, again, frameworks that you need to put in place about how do I lead someone, how do I teach someone, how do I train someone, how do I QC someone. I mean, in this industry, most businesses fail within the first year through lack of leadership. And you can hire as many people as you want, but it doesn't change the fundamentals that

you are ultimately responsible for the performance of your team and you are responsible for your business's outcomes. And you came back in because you were like, right, this is what I need to do. Because, but the other side of that is you had the confidence to go, I know exactly what needs to happen. And that level of conviction, it transcends to a team that you bring in. But again, it comes back from, you know how to do it, you came back in and you did it and you led from the front and you build a culture. So they've got to be ready. They've got to be willing to take on a team and then recruitment.

Who am I looking for? Right? It's not just no point in just saying, hey, I need a closer or I need an SDR, because there are literally millions of them out there now. But what type of person do I want to work with? So you've got to understand the culture of your business. Because again, skill is one thing.

Culture is completely different. You can bring some very skilled guys in that have got zero IQ, EQ, very good at closing, but culturally, really bad fit. And so no matter how good at closing, but culturally, really bad fit. And so they, no matter how good they are, they won't align with mission, vision, purpose, and they won't align with your culture. So the third thing really is about know what your culture is by doing that mission, vision, and purpose exercise,

because you'll get more buy-in from someone if they know where they're going, right? If they know where they're headed. But if you just bring someone in without that, like, I'm, I'm, I'm hiring someone to, uh, for, for a home and not a job. I'm hiring someone because I'm building something, not because it's a short-term stop gap. You know, so you've got to understand what is the business need?

Who does it need? What type of person does it need? And hold, I can teach skillset all day long, but you can't teach culture. You either have it or you don't. And again, what you're looking for is a leader, especially with your first hire. You do not want someone that's just a follower. You need someone that can take your instructions and go, I got you, and be able to put the work in and have that confidence in themselves that they're going to do it.

So again, with your first hire, having someone that needs to be constantly watched and constantly overseen and micromanaged will just lead to an absolute disaster. So there is an element of having the right person in there that's going to be willing to do the work. You can teach skill, but you can't teach that. And those are three great points there. Let me ask you this, man. Let's say for our beginner CEOs or beginner founders, people that are just in the start

phase, right? They got a little bit of money coming in. Where do they go ahead and find somebody for their online business? Like where can they go ahead and get a hold of it? Because you're saying there's a ton of sales development reps out there that can book appointments for them, and there's a ton of consultants out there. But for the people watching, I'm pretty sure they're like, Sean, you're saying there's a ton of them.

Where do I go? Because if you were to tell me, hey, I'm full transparent, man, I'm good at what I do, I'm decent at what I do. But if you were to ask me right now, hey, Paul, there's a ton of them. I wouldn't know where to search. No, you know, you're absolutely right. There's certain groups on Facebook that you naturally want to go to and naturally be a part of because they're where all the top talent goes.

So there are Facebook groups, great. You can advertise on Indeed, on LinkedIn, and you'll get a ton of people. But your best resource is a network. So if you said, I'm looking for a top closer, I would hope that I'd be on the top of your list. Because being a sales recruiter for the last five years, there's no one I don't know, and there's no one I can't get.

And so recruiters in this industry are worth their weight in gold, especially when you're after top talent. Now, your business needs to be at a place where you can attract top talent. Now, if you're looking for like a closer that is in that top 10%, and typically closes,

typically like 5% of closes will make 10 grand plus. So you've got a very small pool of people that you can pull from for a company like yours. And so when you're first starting out, you might not be able to attract that type of person. So you have to be aware of where your business is and what type of closer you can attract. Typically when you're starting out, you'll be looking for a B, B plus player because their expectation will be lower because your lead flow might not be there yet. Your sales process and systems might not be validated yet.

And so that closer first coming in is high enthusiasm, high culture, maybe not great skill set. It'll be good enough to get the deals done, but they're not gonna blow your mind, right? But as you build and the OTE on the offer, i.e. you can make 10 grand, you can now attract a better line of closer. So for people just starting out, indeed, LinkedIn,

you'll be able to kind of pull from a good pool of people. You know, your own social media as well, it's a great way to do it. If you've got like a lead list, again, you don't know who's in your community that you can kind of tap into that might be looking to transition. They're usually good places to start, you know,

close to home, your social media, your assets, your email list, they're kind of the connections that you have, there's a guarantee you know a close, you just haven't asked for one yet. So start close to home first and foremost, then transition to someone like Indeed or someone like LinkedIn, the kind of bigger platforms, because most closes now have profiles.

Most closes now, like, you know, the high ticket space is known, and so it is, they are very available, so you can go to kind of places like that. Like I said, Facebook groups, Facebook communities are a good place to go because you naturally have a community of people that are already there. But watch out though, because clothes is clothes.

And they're very good at selling themselves. Very true, very true. So if you're gonna start taking on clothes, a couple of tips to keep you safe is ask for calls that they've done before so that you can because if you were, I don't know, obviously I'm from the UK so I'm going to use a football analogy which I'm probably going to get lost in right now. But you know if you were the coach of the Miami Dolphins you wouldn't take on a quarterback

that you haven't seen throw the ball. So get calls from them, right? So listen to is this person the right fit for me? You know, are they hard closer? Are they closer are they consultative closer many many different types of personalities? But you want to see calls at least to one they won and one they lost They it's important to see the one they lost because people don't really like rejection And so how the objection handle is a more of a reflection of them personally that is anything else or a lack of training But you want to see one one good call and one bad call, sorry, one close call and one more

call. You also want to see references, right? Closers don't like to give those because if they haven't been on office before, they don't want you digging into their past. So ask for some references, ask for a resume and ask for an intro video. So minimum those four things, right? And a lot of business owners don't ask for them because they're not aware that they can ask for them.

And so it's just, I'm looking for a bomb on a seat, but be slow to hire, really slow to hire because that's an asset that's either going to make or break you, especially with your first hire. It's a huge risk. And I'm not saying that to scare anyone, but take your time. Don't just go, oh my God, he or she should have said yes, I'll just bring them in right now and just put them in my offer. It will be the biggest mistake you ever made. Hiring is not easy. In statistic speaking, you'll go through five to six reps before you find the one, so don't expect the first one to

be easy because it's not going to be. don't expect the first one to be easy because it's not gonna be. Don't expect the first one to stay with you because they probably won't. And as your business grows, what you started with, you won't typically take them through to the next phase because they're probably not good enough to do so. And so you always have to kind of keep an eye on your talent acquisition

and always be having conversations with the closest because you never know. When your business gets to 500 and a million, you need a different caliber of closes to get to that level. When you start changing offer prices, you need a different caliber of person that can say 35K with a straight face, because what are most people in motion about? Money. And so if you've got closes, maybe earning five seven, and they've never seen a 35K investment,

they're going to be really nervous about saying it, unless they're a sociopath or psychopath, which most closers typically are. So it's really important for you to kind of be very, very slow with your first hire. It's, like I said, they'll either make or break you, but don't expect a home run on the first one. You know, put in the work and interview as many as you can, but you're gonna have to make a decision at some point. And if you can, hire multiple at one time because competition is good,

but one of them typically won't last anyway. So if you do have the lead flow, hire a couple. But when you interview them, three phases. One is a group interview phase. Always a good idea, see how they interact with us. It's a good kind of culture fix exercise. How they speak in front of others, how they conduct themselves in front of others. You're able to see instantly how they dress, how they present themselves, knowledge of

the company, whether they're using blurred backgrounds or not, which is a pain of mine. I don't know why, but it is. It's like, what are you hiding back there? Maybe that's copper's nose. That's the copper in my head. So what are you hiding? So you're kind of looking for those things on the first round.

The next round will be a role play. So, you know, typically I want them to role play what I'm selling. So I'll give them my script and get them to role play my offer because I want to see how quickly they acclimate to something that I give them, whether they're going to put the work in and whether they're ready to face the challenge or not. You know, if a person say, well, I've never sold it before, I don't care.

If I give you a script, you should be able to pull that off, you know, if you're going to be any decent part-time person. And then the last one is a one-to-one. And in that one-to-one set, very clear expectations. What I'm talking about is the good, the bad, and the ugly. I expect this, I expect this, I expect this. What do you expect? So there's a very clear alignment from the very beginning,

and no one gets but hurt that, hey man, I was going to, I expected you to do some outpouncing, you're not doing it. Why aren't you doing it? So it's really important to set those expectations. It's like a relationship. You don't want to get in a relationship with someone unless you've kind of edgy, dirty laundry so nothing can kind of come out of the closet later on. You know what I mean? So there has to be that transparency on the front. So it is a slower process, but don't

be quick to fire because it'll be the worst mistake you ever make. And then would you say that a lot of business owners are dropping the ball when they're hiring? Kind of every single time. Because it's instant gratification. I'll bring in this person, they're gonna make me this. No, no, it doesn't work that way. It's, like I said, you're taking the biggest risk

by bringing someone into your company that you haven't essentially cultivated yourself. You don't know how you can trust, you don't know the worker, you don't know anything about them that you can validate whatsoever. That's why that hiring process is really important because you at least get to put them through the mail before you bring them in. But most business owners just want that instant gratification of, I need a bomb on a seat

now. But how much are you spending on ads? You will spend a fortune on a bad hire, not just what they cost you in ads, in ad spend, in marketing spend, but what they cost you in deals that they blow and relationships that they blow, like branding that they make a mistake on. One bad conversation leads to one bad review, which leads to tens of thousands of dollars of missed opportunities, then it happens every single time. But just because you wanted that person now, you'll

make the mistake. And that's where business owners go wrong every single time. That makes sense. Man, that's some great info, Sean. So let's go ahead and take a deep dive into what makes a great sales consultant. Okay? A great closer. Like what characteristics, man? I know as a cop, I know as a CEO that you have to be creative. You have to be able to be decisive, be able to make decisions, and you have to lead by example. That's why like everything that you said, dude, resonates like with my heart so much because like I have such a belief in myself that if I say I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it.

Yeah. I'm going to get it done. It might take me a little bit longer because I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but at the end of the day, dude, I'm going to get this done, right? Let my results show off what I've worked for. So what would you say is some of the most important characteristics that business owners can look for a closer or a consultant for their online business? It's a phenomenal question that is very dear to my heart because being in sales recruitment for as long as I have, it can be somewhat dependent upon the business, but you've got to recruit someone that is a mirror image of you.

Because it's kind of like being on a sales call. I'm going to get frustrated with someone that doesn't think like me. And that naturally comes through with, if you listen to, if you do core reviews, which I do a hundred a month, you'll see the frustration come out very, very quickly because they're not on the same wavelength. It's like how that client is talking and showing up and how you think. So there's a real kind of a clash between the two. What you're looking for is someone that has the same work ethic as you, that you can look at and go, I know

that they're going to get the job done because there's a trust there. So for me, and that's why that hiring process that I ascribed, it's lengthy and very few closers will go through it. And the reason why is because either they've got something to hide, they're not as good as they say they are, or they just won't be the right, they won't perform and give you the loyalty that you need as a business owner because they're in it for the short term cash grab. They're not in, they're not in it for a home. What you're looking for is someone that is, what you're looking for really is someone that is prepared to put the work in no matter what.

That is prepared to do the hard yards, go through the long hours and do whatever it takes. Now that process that I went through there is a good way to filter that, because it is a long process and they do have to go through it. And what you're not looking for is someone that's looking for a quick fix job, because they'll be out as quickly as soon as something goes wrong, they'll be gone. And that's why, you know, listening to a good sales call and a bad sales call is a really good way to kind of gauge their emotional EQ about how they take rejection and how they how they deal with, you know, the average person on the street that they're kind of not aware of and they don't have an alignment

with. So that process will filter out a lot of a lot of that. But what you're really looking for is that is is against someone is identical to you, that you can just build a team of people that you see yourself in. Because without that, you're going to get frustrated with their character flaws very quickly. And that means that you're going to get frustrated at meetings, stressed out at the performance, and you'll overly QC them, because they're not like you. Right? You do need some, don't get me wrong, you know, in sales you do need the beast and you do need the kind of the worker.

There has to be like a bit, but from a character perspective, personality perspective, that's only separated by skill set. It's not separated by personality. They should all have similar personalities because that will create more cohesiveness within the team. And it's kind of like for like, like there's a company in the UK called Pret, and how they hire people is they let the team decide whether someone comes in or not. Oh wow, like a little boys' class. Exactly right.

So it's like exactly, I recognize you in me and then there's that cohesiveness from the beginning which creates a good team infrastructure. Exactly. I recognize you in me. And then there's that cohesiveness from the beginning that was crazy. It's a good team infrastructure. Um, and so what you're looking for again, reflection of yourself, what you're looking for is if you have had highs before you have a blueprint already of what that person looks like, because your top performer, you, you've probably had personal conversations with them. You know how they tick, you know their background.

For me, I enjoy bringing on people that are a little bit older, been through some shit. I'm just saying, when somebody got kids, somebody got a family, this is like the third career. Oh yeah, they're more than likely you're gonna be a winner. They're gonna put the work in. They just are. You know what I mean? And that's that reflection of you because I work hard because my wife and my kids, I

want to provide and they're going to do the same thing. You know, and I'm not saying that someone that's kind of single, that, you know, doesn't have those responsibilities, isn't going to work hard, but there isn't a compelling reason why that if the shit hits the fan, then ultimately they're going to be, they't going to work hard, but there isn't a compelling reason why that if the shit is the fan Then ultimately they're gonna be they're gonna dig in because again people are people and it's the reason why you do something Is the reason why you do something and so if it's just for you, okay It's personal gratification people work harder for other people they do for themselves. They'll sacrifice more for others leadership And so now I'm looking for a leader that is in command of his own life.

You know, have, and again, another side of it is like on the personal side of it, I would be looking at someone's Facebook profile. And the reason is how they show up in their life is a reflection of how they're going to show up for me. And you know, Facebook is, you know, it's the best foot forward. but if you're about your family, if you're about this, this, you'd be fine, but if it's just selfies after a gym pump in bathroom, there's a vanity metric there,

and there's a bit of a self there, do you know what I mean? They're gonna put themselves- A little bit of pride. A little bit of pride, and it's like, okay, cool, well done, you gotta pump know, you got to pump on this grade, but you know, are you more than that? You know, I want people that align with the values of my organization.

And you see that in someone's social media. But remember when you're going through the hiring process, they're on the best behavior. It's like a dating profile. They're gonna put their best picture up. They're not gonna put the ugly stuff up. And so how, like what questions you ask, what questions you ask, is going to be indicative of what you're looking for. And so you've got to ask the hard questions.

You know, if a great question is, hey, it's Thursday, you're not, you're not your KPI. What are you going to do? Right? I'm looking for someone that's like, well, my weekend's blown out. I'm gonna put everything in. I'm gonna do whatever it takes. I'm gonna do this, this, this, this, this. I'm looking for someone that is gonna give me the answer that shows that they're willing to do the work, do the self-sacrifice, and do whatever it takes to win,

because that's what I would do. And the answers have to reflect what I would do and what I would want. It's really difficult to pick really good closers because closers will sell themselves really well. And really hard. But again, if you've got a long process with a lot of hurdles, those people get frustrated quick. They'll get filtered out. They'll get filtered out very, very quickly.

I mean, typically for me, it takes about a month to pick someone out. No way, really? Yeah, yeah. Because... Wow. I feel bad about myself now. The fastest I ever did was like a day. Yeah, you've got to prove yourself because I know if you're prepared to stick that, you're

financially sound because you've gone through a long process and you're not clashing at money. I also know you're prepared to do whatever it takes. I also know that you're prepared to follow my process. You're not forcing me to acquiesce to yours. You've got no ego, right? Because you're prepared to do what I need you to do. And over time, you can't hide who you really are. And so that's why my process is longer than most people's because

I'm filtering out the personality traits that I'm not looking for in a company. So slow to hire, quick to fire. But also you're recruiting the best. You're recruiting the best for the best companies. And nowadays when digital marketing companies out there that they're selling either info product services and all that jazz, I mean, they're getting hit left to right, man. Expenses going up, they can't afford it. CEO steps away, business crumbles down just like we're talking about.

So here's one question I wanna ask you, Sean. Okay? And dude, you can agree with it or you can disagree. I don't care. I don't care. So what do you think about the saying, there's no such bad thing as a bad employee, only bad leaders?

Do you agree, disagree? What are your thoughts? 100%, it's always, I'm a, if I got in a car crash, it's my fault. Like I'm extreme ownership kind of guy all the way. And if that person's not performing, I chose them. I put up with it and their performance is indicative of my actions, my results, my

decisions. I'm taking extreme ownership of that every single time. And performance for me is one of two things, right? It's either I didn't teach them well enough or they refuse to do it. It's a binary for me. It's black and white. And so as a leader, I need to establish which one of those two things it is. And so I need a full proof hiring system, a full proof onboarding system, and I need

to put the time in. If I've done that, I know that I taught you how to do your job. But if it's, and then so I know that with the process that I have, because we pick for elite companies that expect more, I know the guy and girl that's coming in is going to be the best of the best. And I'm filtering all the trash out because it's my name on the door. And if I put someone in there,

you're going to look at me and go, they're not performing, that's on you. I'm the leader, that's my responsibility. And so I am going to own that because it was my decision. And that's why the process is what it is. And I'm never gonna falter on that. Because if you don't wanna go from a process, then you're not good enough for me.

And I hire for the top 1%. I don't hire for the 95%. Because like the clients that we work with, they expect way more of me than anyone else does. And so I'm not just going to throw numbers over you. You're buying a result. You're not buying hit and mess. And so when I look at that, it's a personal pride that comes with that.

And so everything does come down to leadership. And so if it's poor performance, it's my fault. I either didn't train you well enough or I picked the wrong person because you're refusing to do the work. And so it has to come down to me. And so we were talking about it before, I need to pick leaders that take personal responsibility and own that. And if they don't perform, I know I'm not performing.

This is why I'm not performing. This is how I'm going to fix it. I got your back. That's what I want to hear because there's no guarantees that they're going to perform every single month. And we all know there's going to be ups and downs, ups and flows. Of course. But what systems and processes have you got in place to guarantee me that I don't have to come in and baby step you through this?

Because, you know, and coming back to what you're saying before, like brand new businesses can't bring in that kind of level because they're not ready for that yet. But that's why you as the leader have to take more responsibility and make sure that you do have a better process because if you don't, you're increasing the risk of getting it wrong. And so you're not going to bring in a leader at first. What you are going to bring in is a very enthusiastic bomb on a seat. Let's go like, yeah, let's go. But you need to be able to kind of taper that control that train that teach that coach that and it's going to, yay, let's go. But you need to be able to kind of taper that, control that, train that, teach that, coach that, and it's gonna take time. There's gonna be a lot of sweat equity

that goes into your first hires. But an organization like yours, a company like yours, now, it's a whole new ballgame. You have to be top 1% to get into an organization like this. And so I am gonna put you through the wringer and you are gonna go through it. And the only thing that's gonna come out in the backside is you turn around to me and go, awesome hire.

Yep, absolutely right. And Sean, what do you think, what's your opinion or what is your thoughts on why, and I'm seeing this even myself with one of my businesses because earlier on this year, I got into digital consulting for influencers, creators, and consultants. When I was starting to do the hiring process with closers, different closers that typically I would pick, I started running into the issue of closers coming into the organization, and

this happened multiple times, where they would come into the organization, and this happened multiple times, man, where they would come into the organization, but then they would say, hey, so because this is a startup, I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket and I'm going to do multiple offers. Why do closers have like, I guess, why are they afraid to commit to one business? Especially nowadays in 2024, dude, I experienced that when I did a startup earlier this year, New American Dream, and I had back to back to back closers and sales consultants. And, you know, they're a little bit newer in the game.

They probably like one, two, three years on. And they're like, hey, you know, I'm not willing to commit to a startup because, you know, I just want to make sure that this works out. So I'm going to do two to three other offers. Number one, there's two questions. Number one, why do closers do that? Why do they have that mindset? And then number two, how could business owners looking to recruit closers go ahead and deal

with that type of situation? Yeah. It's a phenomenal question. It's something that you're fighting culture because a lot of sales trainers out there teach work multiple offers. Really? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's bad. Yeah, it is. And because I, and I was saying to you before that there's only really top 0.5% that will be able to pull that off.

Someone like me, 100%, I can pull that off. But because you've got different offers with different avatars, different problems, different solutions, you would have to be an extremely competent sales rep to pull that off. And you'd only be able to take maybe two calls a day on that offer. And so it's like, you're essentially a part-time closer on that offer. It's a huge red flag, massive. And the reason why they do is to protect themselves, right? And I see from both sides, because having come up through the ranks and being

where I'm at now, and now working with business owners, I know where both sides are. But what that rep is looking for is they want safety, they want security, they want comfort, which is really weird for a commission only sales rep. But they've got bills to pay. They've got mouths to feed. They've got, you know, food to put on the table. And so they're looking at it from a purely monetary perspective. It's like, if that offer goes down, at least I've got this one. So they're able to protect themselves, and that's what they're doing.

They're covering themselves financially, which again, I can see that because hey, if you can't pay your mortgage, it's pretty stressful. And you know, being in that position myself and it's not it's not fun so that's what they do it's a protective mechanism but again culturally in the industry most sales trainers will say hey work multiple offers because you never know so you're always you know I don't agree with that because then you're always gonna expect that to happen so in in the hiring process, like I said on that third interview, massive amount of expectations and no, you will not work another offer.

However, this is what I'm going to do for you. And this is where that conversation on that interview is really important. I will fill your calendar. That's my obligation to you. Your obligation to me is you will only work this offer. And that's gotta be stoned from the beginning because that close will only get really good at that offer by only working that offer. That's it.

But most closers will not be able to pull that off. But that interview, that's what it's for. You will only work this offer and that's it. But my obligation to you is this. Now how you can help yourself, especially with startups, is to offer what we call a draw. Now, if you don't have a validated marketing, which some startups don't,

and so they're kind of going through that testing phase and it's gonna be like, oh, I'm not quite sure. If you lack confidence in your lead flow, you make up for it with a draw. So essentially you'll never earn less than this amount of money. Right? So if we're, if we're closing deals and everything's going well, you know, you'll have plenty of lead flow and you'd be able to make the money you want to make. If I dropped the ball, what I'm prepared to do is step in with a draw here.

So you can at least cover the bills at home. So you can put that in place for at least the first three to six months whilst you're going through this kind of marketing transition, which typically does happen, right? We see it all the time in new startups. It's like, yeah, I've got the lead flow, but you don't know though, do you? So there's always that safety and security on both sides. If you're looking for loyalty from them, you've got to provide a bit of loyalty to them. It's got to work both sides. I can't expect that person to put all their eggs in my

basket if I've never filled a calendar before, you know what I mean? And so there has to be a little bit of give and take in there. But do you know what that will do? That will buy you real estate with that closer. And that closer will be like, he's got my back, she's got my back. And I feel like they're going to do whatever it takes to kind of make sure I'm going to win. People want they don't want to work multiple offers because it's stressful. It's super stressful managing several diaries. No one wants to do that. They're doing it as a backup plan just in case it doesn't go wrong. But I think, again, as a business owner, you've got to be that leader

that's prepared to back yourself and go, I got you, right? If you put your faith and trust and confidence in me, and I put my faith and confidence in you, and this is how it's going to work, you create this binding contract between the two of you that's built on trust and loyalty from the beginning. Not that I'm just going to expect you to give me your time and I'll throw mud at a wall in marketing and hope that something sticks because you're not starting a relationship off on good grounds there. That's like saying, you know, it's like getting into relationships and, okay, I'm going to have a couple of people on the side just in case this one doesn't work out.

That doesn't feel good for anyone. Do you know what I mean? So there's that mutual agreement in the beginning and that management expectations, but they're doing it to protect themselves. It's culturally trained and coached by a lot of sales trainers out there and it doesn't work. One thing that I hooked on that you said, man, a key takeaway that I took up, business owners, they're going out there to find consultants,

closers, employees to work for them to sell their offer. And as a business owner, what I'm seeing a lot is they're going ahead and hiring employees before the offer is proven. So when would you recommend a business owner or a consultant watching this right now to actually go ahead and go from actually taking the calls themselves to actually making that decision being, okay, I am ready to find a closer. Yeah.

And I've literally just, one of the business I'm working with at the moment, this is the conversation we just had. I would not say allow, but I wouldn't condone bringing on a closer until he got into 200k a month consistently. And when I say consistency, for at least three months. Because yes, he was working his face off and yes, he had to put the hours in. But what he did proved that the business can do at least that. He has money behind him now.

So when he does bring in a closer, they're not always going to be rock stars from the beginning. You are going to take a little bit of risk, so you do need to build up a little bit of a cushion so you're not suffering that financial loss and waking up every night in a cold sweat going, oh my God, I need to bring the money in. And because it's not validated, you don't know whether it's going to work or not, so it's a huge roll of the dice. So this gives you faith and trust and confidence in the process and the system.

You've proven that it can be done, which means that it's like the four-minute mile principle. No one knew it could be done until it was done. And so as a business owner, you don't know it can be done until you've done it yourself. And so once you've done that, I can prove to you as the clothes that it can be done, this is how it's done, this is the script,

this is the process, this is how I'm gonna get you to that amount of money. And so that confidence that you have then is validated from execution and data. It's not a guess. It's not a punt. Speak to so many business owners like, Hey, I'll get you to 10 grand. No, you won't because you don't have the lead flow for it. And you've not sold it enough. You've sold it a couple of times, but they're too much in a hurry to get away from the sale because they think it's a low leverage activity. But how can you lead a sales team unless you've done it? Facts.

You can't. I can't teach you if I haven't done it myself. I mean I've got 14 years in this space. I know how to teach people how to sell. You've got experience. I've got experience. I've been through the trenches. I know how to do that. But if you're a business owner that hasn't done what you expect other people to do, then they won't do it. They'll not follow you into battle

because you've not done it. And also, they won't respect you because you've not done it. And that's what leadership is. It's I respect you because you've done it. And that business owner, he's taken on his first two guys and he's like, he was like, thank you for holding me back because when they're challenging me on the advice I'm giving them, I know I've done it and I know that it works. And so now he's got a team of people that's willing to follow him into battle.

That's what leadership is. No, absolutely, man. I mean, I've been put in that situation, my humble beginnings of digital marketing, where I had a brand new team. And this was in the startup phase of the second company that I launched that we were just talking about earlier. And they're all like, well, I don't know, we don't think it's possible for us to hit, you know, $100,000 a month in revenue for this offer. And then I'm like, okay, you know, I go close myself in the office for a weekend, generate 400,000, come back and be like, you know, what happened?

And they're like, you know, they're just shocked. They're shocked. But then they were number one, I just earned everybody respect. Number two, it's a limiting belief that people have. And as a leader, I believe that you have to break that. Kind of sad. Right? Just like anything in life.

You do. So to follow up with that, Sean, what would you recommend for a business owner to go ahead and do if they're having issues with building a culture for their team, brother. Hey, you know I was going to ask you questions. That's my role. You know, I'm not asking questions that a lot of podcasts are not asking, but this is the real shit. Yeah.

This is what people need to think about when it comes to business. A lot of psychology. Yeah. Just like we're talking about. Yeah, 100%. So if somebody has a shitty culture, what needs to happen? Do people need to get fired? Do there has to be a rewire?

Like what actions, steps can they take? No, I agree. I mean, people, if you're gonna be a leader, then you've gotta have a common mission, vision and purpose. So if you don't know what the mission, vision and purpose is, you need to start there because that's the foundations, that's the fundamentals. People will follow you into battle because of those three things. So you need to have that very clear in your head because if you don't know where you're

going, you can't create culture. You just can't. So that's the first thing I would say. Know exactly where your business is going, why it's going there and how it's gonna get there. Because people can't get behind someone that doesn't have a plan. Again, it's like a sales call. If I'm taking a sales call and I'm not leader on that call,

then that person's gonna be confused. And if they're confused, they're not gonna buy. So again, confusion breeds this just headless chicken kind of mentality of like, what are we doing? So essentially you get a team that just shows up and does the bare minimum because they don't believe in anything. There's no like confidence and conviction there.

So that would be the first thing I'd do. The second, if I realized that, you know, essentially a shitty culture comes from like poor performance and poor performance comes from A, you know, you haven't taught your team properly, held your team accountable properly standards, right? I can't even impress upon a business owner that doesn't have standards for their team because without that, again, coming from the background that we come from,

you know, especially in a firearms kind of capacity, there's a standard there that needs to be met or else you don't carry. Simple as that. And so there has to be, you have to know what you want from your team, how they're going to get it and exactly what plan is going to be. So the standards are plan, something that people can get behind. You know, again, a big reason why, especially if you've got like an outbound team, for example, the reason why they're not picking up the phone is because they don't know what to do.

And it's like, again, plan, process. So culture, again, comes from leadership, comes from bad process, bad systems, you know, lack of vision, lack of purpose, lack of mission. But first off, you need to look at your team, right, and go, okay, who's the ringleader? Because there's always a ringleader. There is always a ringleader. And so what you've got to realize, especially when you've got like a slightly bigger team like you have, that they're going to, they will talk between themselves. Of course.

And they are bigger than you in number. And so the key to culture is knowing your team. You know, one of the biggest lessons I learned very early on was, Hey man, how you doing? And it's just a social call. Not talk about business, but if I know each and every single one of my team, I can get the most out of each and every single one of my team. And it only takes me five minutes just to check how you're doing.

I'm not asking about KPIs. I'm not asking about anything else. I'm not asking about anything else, I'm just seeing how you are. If I take the time, you're going to go, oh my God, he actually cares. And that's what closers are looking for, someone that cares, a home. Again, someone that actually takes the time out of their day to spend time with you, to ask you how the kids are.

How's your wife? How's your weekend? Right? What are you doing this weekend? It takes no time to do, but you've got to remember that you're cultivating assets, right? And you're cultivating loyalty,

and you don't get that unless you give it. It can't be expected, it's got to be earned. And once they start giving you loyalty, they'll go to war for you every single day, no matter how they're feeling. One of my guys literally on his deathbed with bloody man flu, so obviously it's a dangerous thing, right?

So on it, but he still turned up for work and he was like, I don't want to let you down because it's the end of the month. In the hospital gown, huh? Yeah, 100%. Like I 100% know that he would have done that. And it's like, those are the types, that's what you're kind of cultivating. You're cultivating people that don't give up, don't quit, and will be there for you. You know, it's the end of the month right now and we're all scrambling.

Like, let's just fucking, let's hit that number. You're going through it. And it's like, I've got two deals to go. And everyone's rallying around because we're so close and we don't we don't fail Like there's one mentality on my team's we don't miss ever and we don't and Culture will breed performance and they'll police themselves and you see it like come on bro Let's fucking let's talk this out and they will please each other without you having to do it because there's a pride there And that pride is instilled by you making sure that you have a team that knows what to do, how to do it, that's held accountable to it, and then knows that you've got their

back. Those foundations and those fundamentals, I think business owners forget them. They forget. Because you can have the best CRM in the world. It doesn't change a thing because you've got people on the phone taking calls, talking to your clients. And so why should they give a crap about your business if you don't care about them? Absolutely.

And again, it comes from a hiring, it comes from your leadership, and it comes from your interactions with your team on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. And there has to be, like you going above and beyond, hey man, I just sent you a couple hundred bucks to take your wife out for dinner this weekend. Thanks very much for what you did this week. That was awesome work. And they'll be like, okay, thank you.

And they'll just, they'll love you for it. Of course. And it costs you nothing, but it buys real estate with them. And through the hard times, they'll have your back every single day. And that's what it takes. It doesn't take a lot.

It just takes you to just go out your way just a little bit. Yeah. And it's a lot. So it's not an employee now. It's a leader in your business that you're cultivating. I love that. And we're here building leaders.

Yeah, we are. We have to. Because you've spent a lot of blood, sweat, equity building what you've built. And now you're trusting it to someone else. That's a huge thing to undertake. So I'm not entrusting that to an employee. I'm entrusting that to a leader that's going to represent me and my organization at the highest possible level. Because we're going places, we're gonna do things,

and we're gonna do it together. Yeah, we're not gonna stay average, man. That's it, one percenters. Yeah, you didn't come to this realization that I'm here to be okay with being okay, right? Of course, of course, level up, man. Exactly, every day. Every man. Exactly, every day. Every day, brother, every day.

Sean, so last message for all our business owners, message for all of our closers, message for just everybody listening to this, dude, that you just inspired with this interview, man, because you're gonna inspire literally tens of thousands of people. Emilio, right now we got what? like 70,000 people listening in on every episode? Yeah it's amazing. So what do you got to say to the people man?

What's up? Do hold yourself to a higher standard every day and don't assume that you're good at what you do. Always assume that you don't know anything and be thirsty and hungry for more. But it's, if you have a gap, fill it. Don't be egotistical or prideful and don't think that you know what you don't know because you don't. And, you know, it's that, it's that personal pride in doing everything.

But the best way to put it is this, if you can put your head on the pillow at night, knowing you did everything you possibly could to achieve the dream that you set for yourself, you're winning. But if you put your head on the pillow and go in, I didn't do that, then you're not showing up. You're just existing. And that dream will always be that because you've never done whatever it takes and put yourself in a position of personal sacrifice. And it is

short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. And it is going to take more work than you ever thought that it would or could. But you know what? It's possible if you just do the work. Yeah. Just do the work, guys. You heard it from Sean Ray here. So, Sean, where can they find you? Instagram, website? Do you have a free community? Like anything that you want to share with audience? We've got hardlyselling.com.

That's myself and a couple of other guys, Dean Carozza, Will Hinkson, and Peyton Welsh. You can find us on the website. All of what we do, we help businesses scale their businesses, obviously recruit, we spoke about today, training sales reps and everything else in between. So if you're in a kind of conundrum about what to do with your business and how to do it, we execute and implement sales teams, we build sales teams, we run sales teams. Just a bad ass bunch of motherfuckers really. What's the Instagram, brother?

Mine is DoubleOSalesProject. And then obviously you can find me on Facebook, Sean Ray. I love that. I love that. And you guys are here to hear first from Sean Ray, one of the number one top sales experts in the online space. Make sure to check him out, guys. And that wraps up another episode here at the Level Up Podcast.

I'm Paul Alex, Sean Ray. Guys, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube. If you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple Podcast, make sure to share with somebody that you love, you care about, and let's level up. Take care. Remember, I always have your six. Make sure to share this episode with your family, friends, and anyone you care about. The world's already hard enough, and we need to take care of each other. Make sure to share this episode on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and share it with the world. Do me a big favor and tag me, Paul Alex.

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