The Life Of Bryony - 26: The Life of YOU: The Truth About Addiction and What It Takes to Heal with Matt Willis

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Welcome to The Life of YOU, where we tackle life’s toughest moments. In this special bonus episode, I’m joined by Matt Willis, musician, actor, and advocate for recovery, alongside Nav Dhesi, a recovery mentor. Together, we discuss the raw and honest realities of addiction and recovery, offering advice, hope, and insight for anyone on this journey or supporting someone who is. Today: How do you reach out for help when shame and embarrassment are holding you back? What are the practical steps for making it through day one of sobriety? How to begin again after a relapse? Matt and Nav share their personal experiences, invaluable lessons from their journeys, and practical strategies for staying sober and finding hope after a relapse. Matt’s story of recovery shows that it’s possible to build a life beyond your wildest dreams—and that the first step is reaching out. WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU 🗣️ Got something to share? You can text or send me a voice note on 07796657512—just start your message with LOB. 💬 Or use the WhatsApp shortcut - https://wa.me/447796657512?text=LOB 📧 Prefer email? Drop me a line at [e-mail]. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who might need it—it really helps! MY WEEKLY RECOMMENDATION Sophie and Oli's fundraiser for CRELD1 Warriors - Donate here - https://www.justgiving.com/page/creld1-7in7?utm_medium=fundraising&utm_content=page%252Fcreld1-7in7&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=pfp-share Bryony xx SOME GREAT RESOURCES In this episode, we discuss addiction, recovery, and mental health. If you or someone you know is struggling, these organisations can help: Forward Trust: Visit www.forwardtrust.org.uk for resources on addiction and recovery. Samaritans: Call 116 123 or visit www.samaritans.org for free, 24/7 support. Mind: Call 0300 123 3393 or visit www.mind.org.uk Alcoholics Anonymous: www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk For more of Matt’s story, check out his BBC documentary 'Matt Willis: Fighting Addiction'. Presenter: Bryony Gordon Guest: Matt Willis & Navraj Dhesi Producer: Jonathan O'Sullivan Executive Producer: Mike Wooller A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Life of You, where we tackle your dilemmas and explore the solutions to life's trickiest moments. Today I'm joined by both Matt Willis and the incredible recovery advocate Navraj Desi. NAV has been sober for 13 years and is the founder of No More Pretending, a group advocating for alcohol recovery in Punjabi and migrant communities. This episode was recorded last week in London as part of the Forward Trust's Let's Talk About Addiction event and to highlight Addiction Awareness Week. You know, I got told when I came into recovery that you can have a life beyond your wildest dreams.

And I was like, I've had some pretty f----- wild dreams. And what I've got now is better than any of them. All of your questions answered right after this. Visa and OpenTable are dishing up something new. Get access to primetime dining reservations by adding your Visa Infinite Privilege Card to your OpenTable account. From there, you'll unlock first-come, first-serve spots at select-top restaurants when booking through OpenTable.

Learn more at opentable.ca forward slash visa dining. With Uber Reserve you can book your Uber ride in advance. 90 days in advance. Perfect for all you forward thinkers and planning gurus. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. We've got listener questions about addiction. And the first one, which I think is so important, if there is someone at a home who is in shame or embarrassment and knows they need help but doesn't know what to do,

what would your advice be for them now, if I start with you? I think it's exactly how Matt said. It's about connecting with somebody else that's been through the same thing. thing You know my journey started when I connected with another alcoholic, you know, and I didn't even know I had a problem So I mean I was like thought, you know, you drink you wake up you wet the bed That's a normal thing to do. Do you mean I could rationalize anything? But if you think there's something there where you're drinking speed soon because there's no judgment and I think that's the biggest thing people think they're Terminally unique that I'm the only person going through this but the truth is addictions addiction And you know, we all kind of go through very similar things

So reach out to somebody and just just talk about it. You might not be another, you know, that's great I always love talking to someone and it turns out they're just drinking a bit too much But it can't hurt to find out, you know Just just connecting with someone because people try so hard to do it alone. And it just, if I could do it alone, I'd never be here. Do you know what I mean? And it wouldn't be addiction. I needed outside help. I needed the help and guidance of somebody else, because they could see past the bottle.

You know, everybody could just see me just drinking and drinking, but in that first meeting, they just spoke about what was going on on the inside. I didn't even know what was going on in the inside. I was always too pissed to even consider it. So yeah, definitely just reach out and connect with somebody. Do you think, I think that's true that you cannot do it alone. Like trying to do it alone is a symptom of addiction in itself, right? Would you say that, Matt? I'd say so, yeah. I mean it's very addict-like to think I can do this, even though you absolutely can't.

You know, I think it's... Yeah, I think there's something about addiction that wants you on your own. Yeah. When I first started using my addiction, wanted me to be... I did it because it got me into the room, you know, got me into the party, got me into the thing. And then at the end of my addiction, all I wanted was shame by myself, you know And then and the moment we connect with another human we can

Relieve some of that and if they're sober, they probably got something to say that might help you Because you ain't got anything to say that might help you because I was you'd be doing it Yeah, my best thinking when we up in rehab Absolutely. Someone's told me never I said, I've been thinking and he said, oh don't do that. He said, Matt, never go inside your own head with an adult present. Good advice. Thinking is the worst thing. It's the worst, yeah. So a question about day one. So someone wants to get sober and they don't know where to start. Obviously we start with day one, right? But I want to know your practical tips for staying sober. The thing that

people always used to say to me was, just get your head on the pillow without picking up a drink. And I thought I can do that and then can I pick up a drink? And they were like, no, you can't do that. So how do we get our heads on the pillow without picking up a drink? So were like no you can't do that. So how do we get our heads on the pillow without picking up a drink? So by which I mean what are the practical things like is it for me I had to eat all of the ice cream? What for you was the kind of practical thing? A massive one like that sugar, your body just craves sugar. A lot of times when you're in early recovery people think oh I need another drink but it's like no you just need some sugar. So I always say, just

keep like, do the little sensations, just keep some sweets in your pocket and it's just amazing. Just having a bit of sugar and it's just, oh, it's gone. But for me, it was not just a little bit of sugar. I ended up eating the whole box of sensations. But I think that's okay. We can dress that whenever we want, you know, you can dress that another time. I think that's what helps you get to the bed at the end of the night. Do that. That was one of the favorite things that people said to me. I remember someone saying to me, deal with whatever is going to kill you first.

And it wasn't Ben and Jerry's. Yeah, absolutely. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. If you're enjoying the podcast, hit follow now to stay connected and never miss an episode. I can guarantee you it'll be the best decision you've made all day. I want to talk about relapse and what advice would you give to someone trying to come back from a relapse because I know Matt that's something that you've experienced a lot. I don't know if you have enough but what would your tips be to someone who's feeling that shame and

feels like they've thrown it all away and they can't come back? It's okay. I mean it's honestly okay. It's just it's that shame that keeps people outside and it just stops them from coming back in and unfortunately I've been invited to too many funerals to people that just couldn't come back in because they just couldn't get over the perceived shame of coming back but the shame's never there. You know, we're addicts, what are we going to do? We're going to drink and we're going to take drugs.

And sometimes it can happen after a period of sobriety. And, you know, you were talking about today, like, my alcoholism comes back all the time. But it's not that I pick up a drink. It comes through in my behaviours, because ultimately that's what my addiction was. It was my behaviours. It caused my life to become chaos. And I had to drink as a solution to that because sober it just felt so painful and that was all because of this architect which is madness and it was all them behaviors so

you know I connect with a lot of guys on that and say like it's okay you know come back it's the rooms are always open so I mean and there's no judgment in there I was taught in early recovery that you can start your day at any point. That was a massive thing for me, things are going wrong and it's like, oh, I could just stop and then wow, just restart the day. And it's the same with recovery. If something happens, don't let it be your last mistake. Come back in and hopefully people can get past that. But I understand how difficult it wasn't part of my journey, but I've worked with a lot of guys where it has

and thankfully, you know, some of them have come back in and they've gone on to kind of, it's really strengthened their recovery because they've learned that actually it's complacency that kind of kills us, you know, we can put the drink down, but as we become complacent that voice comes back saying, I'll be okay. Well sometimes it just says fuck it. Do you know what I mean? There can be so many different things but I always just say please come back. I suppose it's really emotional because I lost someone recently, a close family member, and they just they couldn't they couldn't get past it and even though I'm in recovery you know all we can do is be an example to another person.

We can't get sober for somebody else. And I suppose you really see that family side of it. As an addict, I was always scared of talking to the family and stuff because they were the silent victims, but seeing someone I loved go through the exact same thing, it's, you can't bring two words. So I just, I beg people just please come back,

you know, just taking a drink. It's not the end of the world. Thank you so much for sharing that. Wow. Matt, what did you need someone to say to you the last time that you slipped? I think that they love me. Shame's a fucker, man, you know, and it can eat you alive. You know, and I think there's something about being truthful with who you need to, do you know what I mean?

Like there's something about relapse, which makes you go, oh no, I failed, everyone, everyone's gonna know. Really, you've got a core group of people that you need to address this with and who can help you through that. You don't need to open up to the world, just deal with what needs to be dealt with and get sober. And that is your, whoever that core group is and be honest and truthful with them and get the help you need. But, you know, I didn't tell everyone about my relapse for a long time, you know, like, I didn't feel like I needed to because I needed to focus on me, you know, and that's okay. You know, it's, it's, it's okay to be selfish about your recovery, you know, because without it, everything falls

apart, be truthful who you need to be. you know, because without it, everything falls apart. Be truthful who you need to be. And that on the, I want to end with that on a sort of like note of hope from both of you about, you know, the message is recovery is possible. Absolutely. What would you both say, I'll start with you Nav, to that version of yourself 13, 14 years ago, who was in the grips of alcoholism. What would you say to him about Future Now? I don't think there's anything I could say that you'd believe to be honest today. Today I'm living the life I was looking for in the bottom of a bottle, see what I mean? And it's I've got two beautiful daughters, there's happiness and

laughter in the house, there was none of that when I was drinking and you know even though I was still loved by everybody around me I just like you say felt so disconnected from everyone and everything and just just to be able to say that it's all in your head It's just crazy. You know, it's just self-created and back then I was a chronic victim Everything was going wrong. But just saying that actually There's so much hope and light in the world because I'm still in that same world, you know same family, same this and it's such a beautiful future not just for ourselves, but for everyone around us. You know, I get to break that cycle. I've got two daughters that

don't have to go through what I went through and you know, some of it you talked about ADHD. Through recovery, I got diagnosed with AUDHD. So that's autism as well. So I'm the full package, I've got AID, all colourism is it? But, you know, we talk about that connection and what recovery's given me is like, I don't always feel connected, but I feel safe knowing that I can just be myself. And I never felt safe just letting all the masks down and saying to that nav back then, take the masks off, it'll be alright. It changed your life changes life and it did and that's what recovery did for me. Matt would you say that that's... That was fucking amazing, that was incredible. You're both amazing, would you say that recovery has given you an understanding of what unconditional

love is? Absolutely, you know, and also liking, loving myself, you know, that's why I said liking first then because I felt uncomfortable saying it, you know, but like, that's something I never thought I could have, you know, I never thought I'd not just hate myself. And I don't today I don't hate myself. You know, which is, you know, I got told when I came into recovery that you can have a life beyond your wildest dreams.

And I was like, I've had some pretty fucking wild dreams. You know, are you sure? You know, and what I've got now is better than any of them. You know, and it's not what I thought it was gonna be. You know, it's so much better. And it's really possible I thought it was going to be. You know, it's so much better. And it's really possible. Recovery is out there. And if you're lucky enough to get a taste of it,

hold onto it, you know, and keep working it. I'm afraid. Thank you. That's... Thank you. Thank you both so much. Nav Desi, Matt Willis, you've been amazing. Thanks very much. Thank you both so much. Nav Desi, Matt Willis, you've been amazing. Thanks very much.

A massive thank you to Nav and Matt for sharing their wisdom and experience with us today. And of course, the forward trust for all the wonderful work they do. If this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need to hear it. And don't forget to follow and leave us a review. Remember, if you or someone you know is struggling, there's always help available. Details are, as always, in the show notes. Now, I like to leave you with a weekly recommendation

on a Friday. This week's one is a little bit different. So, the lovely Sophie Lloyd got in touch with me to tell me about something her husband Ollie is doing. So Ollie is running seven marathons in seven days. And when you listen to this, I guess he'll be on marathon number five. Go Ollie! Now the reason he is doing this is because he and Sophie's little son Angus was diagnosed with a very rare genetic disorder known as Creled 1, which affects the development and function of multiple organ systems. And

it is incredibly underfunded, under-researched. So they're basically raising money by OLLI running these marathons and they're trying to raise £100,000 for the Creled One Warriors charity. Now as I read this, they're about £26,240 in, which is amazing. But if you want to go and just, I think, to warm your heart at how amazing humans are, I would go and head to the Just Giving page and look up the work of the Creled One Warriors and just see how Ollie is getting on and Sophie and Ollie and lovely Angus. Their Just Giving page, I will put the link in the show notes as well. And maybe if you go and give just a pound, it might make a massive difference to someone's

life. Until next time, I'll see you on Monday. driving expert and former professional race car driver Karl Nadu shares his tips on winter driving and daylight savings. With daylight savings time, shorter days and colder nights signal winter's arrival. Is your vehicle ready for frosty temperatures and challenging road conditions? Book your winter tire change today to ensure safety as snow, slush and ice become more common on the roads. Check out michelin.ca to find the right winter tire for your vehicle today.