The Life Of Bryony - Binge Eating: The Most Common Eating Disorder No One Talks About

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

Welcome to The Life of Bryony, where we explore life’s messier moments. MY GUEST THIS WEEK: JESS GRIFFITHS This week, I’m joined by the brilliant Jess Griffiths, an eating disorder expert who brings both personal and professional insights to our chat. We talk about the challenges of recovery, how self-compassion plays a key role, and why hope is always possible—even when it feels like the hardest thing to hold on to. Jess and I touch on the pressures of perfectionism, the importance of being kind to ourselves, and practical tips for building resilience. Whether you’re facing an eating disorder yourself, supporting someone you love, or just trying to be gentler with yourself, I really think this conversation will resonate with you. Let’s Stay in Touch 🗣️ Got something to share? You can text or send me a voice note on 07796657512—just start your message with LOB. 💬 Or use the WhatsApp shortcut - https://wa.me/447796657512?text=LOB 📧 Prefer email? Drop me a line at [e-mail]. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who might need it—it really helps! Bryony xx For More Information and Support In this episode, we talk about eating disorders, mental health, and recovery. If you or someone you know is struggling, these organisations can help: Beat Eating Disorders: Call 0808 801 0677 or visit beateatingdisorders.org.uk. Mind: Call 0300 123 3393 or visit mind.org.uk. Samaritans: Call 116 123 or visit samaritans.org for free, 24/7 support. Jess' book 'Eating Disorders: The Basics - The Basics' is available to buy - https://www.waterstones.com/book/eating-disorders-the-basics/elizabeth-mcnaught/janet-treasure/9781032379579 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think it's actually uncivilised that we aren't just allowed to go into hibernation. What about shorter winter hours like mid-data four? I think that's pushing it. Mid-data three. Welcome to the Life of Briny, the podcast where we tackle life's messier moments. This week we're diving into a topic that doesn't get nearly enough attention, binge eating disorder. It's the most common eating disorder, but so many people suffer from it in silence, not even realising that what they're going through has a name. My guest today is Jess Griffiths.

Jess is a National Eating Disorder expert, the co-lead of Freed at the Maudsley Clinic. And Jess played a pivotal role in helping me understand my own struggles with binge eating disorder. So I couldn't think of anyone better to have this conversation with. My mum said to me, I can't do anything about whether you live or die.

She looked me in the eyes and said that. And she said, I'm taking my hands off your life. I'm packing the truths and myths about binge eating with Jess Griffiths right after this. I saw some of Wicked because I wasn't aware that Wicked was such a very, very, very, very, very, very, very long production. So long indeed that it had to be split into two parts, I believe. So me and my best friend Laura, we thought it would be a really great idea to take all of our kids to see Wicked on a rainy, windy, horrible Saturday afternoon. What better way to spend a winter's afternoon with your kids at the weekend? So off we traipsed with all of our kids. I've only got one, she's got three. Her youngest

has just turned three. She loves a witch or a sort of Glinda, sort of magical fairy person. So we thought, great, this will be perfect. But I feel like it should come with a warning that it's a very long film because it's like, I mean, it's obviously beloved of many people of all ages across the world, but it is, you know, it's a PG. I feel like young kids, I don't know what this says about me. I'm blaming the three-year-old for us getting up and walking out after an hour and a half when really it's my inability to sit still. And I'm sure I didn't get fidgety during the Titanic, you know, like, and now I think when they do screenings of that, they have to put brakes in. Anyway, so there we

were and not much had happened, I have to say. And the three-year-old was getting very fidgety, but I thought, well, you know, maybe it'll be fine. We'll manage to distract her. And I Googled wicked running time. And I realized that we were barely out of the opening credits, basically. We were barely out of the opening credits. And I showed it to my friend and she started laughing. She started laughing at how long the film the opening credits basically. We were barely out of the opening credits and I showed it to my friend and she started laughing. She started laughing at how long the film was. It was nearly three hours I think. And we were like, there was no way this child is going to sit still. We all left. We weren't like loving it. What I've enjoyed more about

I love a musical and I love a musical about outsiders and exploring the nature of good and bad as Wicked does. However, I think I've enjoyed more all of the sort of wild, crazy press around it and all the reels of Ariana and Cynthia kind of crying and hugging. I've got a lot of joy just from that. So we didn't even get Defying Gravity, which feels terrible. But I guess when it comes out on DVD, on VHS, on streaming, we can watch the next two thirds of it. The ability to sit still and focus on one thing for a prolonged period of time, I find has been completely destroyed. I definitely could do it when I was a teenager and I'd go and watch a movie and I wasn't used to looking at my phone and also watching a screen and you know, like

it's double screening, sometimes triple screening we've got going on and obviously in the cinema you can't do that. And I, you know, I'm a bit horrified by my inability to sit still with my own, not even with my own thoughts, with a wildly colorful and gorgeous cinemascope in front of me, such as the world of Oz. And still I am like, I can't do this, need to leave. What is the perfect film length? Is that the reason we're not going to the cinema anymore?

And that TV series are like taking off because they're, you know, max an hour and we can just kind of stop them halfway through. I love the exact 43 minutes of a Grey's Anatomy episode. It is perfect. One of those a night, a Grey's Anatomy a. It is perfect. One of those a night, a Grey's Anatomy a day keeps the daughter away. I don't know. You let me know. Drop me a message. All the contact

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If you're enjoying the podcast, hit follow now to stay connected and never miss an episode. I can guarantee you it'll be the best decision you've made all day. I'm so happy today to be chatting to Jess Griffiths. Jess played an absolutely pivotal role in my continued recovery actually from binge Disorder. And whenever I write about this subject, I am bombarded with messages from people asking for me to shed more light on it. And that's why I really wanted to do this episode because so little is known about Binge Eating Disorder and there is so much shame attached to it. And yet so many people experience it. I think the other special thing about Jess is that her insights are grounded in her own

personal experience of recovery from her own eating disorder. So not only does she have real expertise on this subject, but she also has that kind of very empathetic, compassionate personal experience of it. So this episode is for all of you who have got in touch with me and very bravely shared your own experiences with binge eating disorder. And I really, really hope it helps.

Jess. Hi. Jess Griffiths. The one and only. Eating disorders expert, author of Eating Disorders, The Basics. You have like an official title at the Maunsley Clinic in South London, don't you? Yes, so I'm the national co-lead for Freed, which is the first episode rapid early intervention

for eating disorders. I will say it only once. Gosh, you were also, you used to be like the head of information at BEAT, which is the eating disorders charity. Yes, clinical information at BEAT, which is the eating disorder. Yes, charity. Clinical director at BEAT, yep. Which is how I met you. You were also for some time my therapist treating my binge eating disorder and it was because of you that I realised I had binge eating disorder. And I wanted to do an episode on this because every time I've written about it or spoken about it, I am inundated with messages from people asking me about my treatment and how I got help and how I sought help. And I've always been kind of very like, oh, I got a therapist and then I've never really spoken about it.

But then I've done Insta lives with you before and, you know, sort of obliquely referenced, you know, how we know each other. But Jess, you were my therapist when it came to binge eating disorder. So I wanted to have you on to talk about this illness, which doesn't get spoken about all that often. It is an eating disorder. It is, we think, the most common eating disorder. Yeah, I mean, it was only recognized as a mental health

diagnosis in 2013. Really? I mean, that is not very long. So I think it's far more prevalent than we even recognize. So just quickly, before we go into my lived experience and your lived experience of eating disorders as well, can you talk me through what the definition of a binge eating

disorder is? So I think it is typically driven by emotional distress. So it's not just comfort eating, it's not just having an extra chocolate bar, it is something where you eat an enormous amount of food in a very short period of time. You might not even enjoy eating the food, but it feels completely out of control

and you'll eat anything to hand. It's not just eating typical things that you would enjoy. It can be associated with weight and shape concerns, but actually underneath it in terms of the psychological traits, it's not very different in terms of the other eating disorders. So there's quite often perfectionism, low self-esteem. A lot of those underlying things are very similar to all the eating disorders and it's not unusual for someone with anorexia or bulimia to then progress on to binge eating disorder. But it is a mental health condition. It plagues your mindset, your thoughts.

It takes over your day. People tend to have rules around what's good and bad food. They quite often start a day thinking, I'm going to be good today. Oh my god, this resonates. It's miserable. They quite often start a day thinking I'm gonna be good today It's miserable and it's you're thinking about food all the time It is such a hard disorder to live with and not only do you have all of that going on But you get shamed for putting on weight Yeah, or if you are living in a larger body the weight stigma is just colossal But actually you can be any weight and have binge eating

disorder. People can be normal weight ranging into obviously, you know, living in a larger body and overweight. It's really interesting because in my teens and twenties I suffered from bulimia and I really knew what that was and I knew while I was doing it that that was an eating disorder. It was a pattern of binging food and then purging it by vomiting, sneaking off. And it was all encompassing for many years of my life and something I didn't talk about or didn't admit to anyone that I just saw as quite normal. And it had physical impacts.

I lost a tooth. My face was, you know, like often spots and just you just the stomach acid that you're constantly bringing up is obviously terrible for you and your man. Anyway, the whole thing. There was a point in my late 20s, early 30s where I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not doing this because this is so awful.

What I'm doing to my body is absolutely terrible. And definitely once I had my daughter, I was like, my body is incredible. It can do this amazing thing. And I have been treating it like a dustbin, essentially. I was like, I'm not doing this. I'm not engaging in this behaviour anymore. And I had a period of very normal relationship with food, you know, and obviously I put on weight because I was no longer vomiting my food up and I had a child and all of that stuff and then I got sober and I realised how much alcohol and drugs were able to kind of quiet my feelings about food and during the pandemic, you spoke about it there, the food obsession became kind of all-encompassing.

And I can see now what was going on. I was about 2 and 1 half years sober when COVID came in. And that was just an extraordinarily weird. The timing of that, though. Yeah, but I was so desperate to like, I was like, I'm not picking up a drink, I'm not picking up a drink. And I was really proud of that.

And around me, people were like, you know, we saw it was that people really took to alcohol during those lockdowns. No judgment. But while I was like, oh, I'm still so you know, I'm sober. Thank God I'm sober. I realized I'd fallen head first into this other thing, which I guess was broadly speaking, food addiction, which I now see was binge eating disorder. And as you said, it wasn't just like an extra chocolate bar, an extra packet of crisps. It was like vast amounts of food in short periods of time, for me, often in the dead of night. And I was going down to the fridge and I was eating things like uncooked cooking chorizo. So I mean essentially raw

sausages and I was like what the fuck. And huge amounts of like crisps. Like I could probably get through the number doesn't really matter but like 18 of those bags of crisps or something or like quite a few big extra ones. And it was like the only thing that could quieten my head in the dead of night during those times. And I remember going into the bin as well at one point. And I remember at the time it was like, ugh. I was like, it's okay because I'm not throwing this up. I'm not throwing this up, so this is okay.

But why does it then not feel okay? I felt the shame. And like you said, I felt that thing of like, I would wake up every morning and be like, today I'm going to be good. I realise now, and you pointed this out to me later, that I would then enter this sort of almost pattern of restricting during the day to try and be good, which would then lead me to binging later on. I was writing a book at the time, No Such Thing As Normal, which was like a practical guide to mental health and getting help for mental health issues. And I interviewed you about eating disorders generally. And I remember exactly

where I was when we had that conversation. And I remember you saying to me, oh, please, would you also talk about binge eating disorder? And I was like what? And you said yeah, it's probably the most common eating disorder there is and nobody talks about it. And it was like this penny dropped that I was like oh this is what's going on with me at night time. It was like what I'd call like a sort of a moment. It was, it was just one of those universe moments of bringing two people together. It was very powerful. Yeah, it was really interesting for me because, and I don't know if this relates to anyone listening, but I felt a huge amount of shame about it because there's lots of stuff tied

up with it. And you spoke about this before, like the weight stuff, although that wasn't so much for me. It was more the kind of like, I didn't feel physically good after you eat that amount of food, you feel physically bad. And it felt similar to when I had a drinking binge, you know. So that was for me and it wasn't because I genuinely, weight is a weird thing for me. It doesn't bother me, but I know it does for a lot of people, you know. And you said this really interesting thing to me,

which was that if your reason for wanting to treat your binge eating disorder is motivated by wanting to lose weight, then you're not going to get to the bottom of it. And I thought that was a really important and profound thing. And it's about this value that we put in weight and our self-esteem being linked to a figure on a scale is sort of what in a way is sort of at the heart of a lot of eating disorders.

Yeah, the over-evaluation and perceived value of your weight and how it relates to your identity and your self-worth. I mean, when that takes over and becomes the focus, it's never going to end well. What I found so hard about it and what I think a lot of people find really hard about it is that, you know, in a way, getting sober was not easy. Getting clean and sober was obviously not easy. Like, rehabs wouldn't exist if it was. But the thing about getting sober and clean is that I don't have to drink alcohol or take drugs to stay alive, but I do have to eat food. And so there's that amazing, powerful phrase in eating disorders treatment, which is that it's like taking a tiger out for a walk three times a day.

Yep. Managing that, managing your physical hunger. It is so complex because it's not black and white. It's like, because you have to learn to eat. So I genuinely felt with you, Jess, that that was what happened. I realized when we started our treatment that I was essentially a 41-year-old woman learning what was normal, how to eat, and that it was OK to eat three meals a day and snacks in between.

And this points as well, doesn't it, to this incredibly fucked up society that like, disordered eating is so normal now. I mean, as a mum of two teenage girls who actually have a really good relationship with food and their bodies. Touchwood for now. Having implemented those principles by hearing what's going on in their peer groups and generally in society, I mean, it is savage. What do you hear? Oh my gosh, I mean, it's worse than ever, isn't it?

I think, you know, in terms of body image and you know, it's trendy for kids not to eat lunch at school. You know? Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it veers in between that and self harm, but generally, yeah, you don't eat at school. It's quite a lot of the narratives that I see floating around.

And there's no one just giving that overarching message of no food is good or bad. You need to eat food regularly and exercise regularly. You know, it's not rocket science, but it doesn't sell. But that is the main message. Eat regularly, exercise regularly, don't diet because that really disconnects the whole mind body connection. And it will be okay. And that's all I've done with my kids. And at the moment moment they're great and they're fine. I mean you've experienced an eating disorder yourself. Yeah and I think being a mom you kind of think oh you know am I gonna pass

anything on to them and I think you know when they were younger I was really worried about that but then I was like okay I can't fight genetics but I can give them the skills they need to navigate this. So once I realized that and just thought okay let's not get into the kind of being a perfect mom, good enough mom, let's give them the skills, you know, things shifted and I was like, no, that's my job as a parent. And, you know, speaking to them about my own experience,

you know, each one of them, each one of my children, because we've got three, has got to that moment where I told them and they can't really believe it because, you know, I'm so different now in terms of my personality. I mean yeah I just totally embrace life. There's a massive disconnect between the mum they see now who is in recovery from an eating disorder. Can you talk to us a bit about your own experiences and what life was like before you went into recovery?

Absolutely. So I mean that's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about eating disorder support because I had my own eating disorder for about 10 years. So from the age of 11 to 21. But at the age of 11, I was in a grammar school, self-harming. I didn't even know what self-harm was. But actually, my eating disorder started with binge eating disorder. Okay. Which is why it's so close to my heart is because I can see now that that was what was going on for me and I was depressed. But then became more and more unhappy with my body size

because I put weight on. And so it got to the point where I was like, right, we need to do something about this and was the best, okay, weight loss person ever because I had that high achieving, driven, determined personality, which meant then like plunged into anorexia. I think this is a really interesting thing that I hear a lot in my own recovery talking to other alcoholics and addicts and whatever. And you mentioned it, that it started as a

child with binge eating, because I realised actually that long before I picked up a drink or a drug, I realised what I was doing as a very little girl was trying to numb myself with food and I would eat, this is really weird, frankfurters, the herter frankfurters that were in the fridge, and I would eat like two packets of them. But it's a very common thing because it is the first way, food is often the first way we learn how to control the way we feel and communicate to the world as well

and control our parents. So no, I'm not eating this. Yeah, so in a sense, I think 11, you know, you're going through the stages of puberty and my body was changing and you know, I suppose there were kind of ideals around in my family and my mum, a lover to bits, but she was a serial dieter. It's just I think the way she'd been brought up and so I felt like I was meant to look

a certain way but of course then when I started restricting food but then I find myself binging because it wasn't only driven by hunger then, it was driven by the depression underneath as well and the more you get into that cycle, the more you start to really not like yourself. And so I remember absolutely pummeling myself all the time, all the time. Every breath I took, that's how much I disliked myself and that was the horrible darkness underneath it all. So that went through from 11 to 21? Yeah, so then I went to see the school nurse and I lied until the cat scratched me. But I was actually asking for help, self-harming, but I didn't really get any help until I developed anorexia.

What was the kind of turning point? Well, I think for me, making sense of actually what was healthy for me was a huge part of the journey. So I think because I had had an experience of being overweight, I was absolutely petrified of being overweight again. So I kept myself at a very low weight, I'm not going to talk about numbers, because of that. But what I realised was the body I'm in is not meant to be at a low weight and it can't

function healthily. So I had a moment where I can't even conceive of it now. I did all kinds of things to lose weight or maintain my low weight, which were really dangerous. Ended up then in A&E. Heart palpitations, heart problems, because when you try and lose weight, it can affect your muscle mass.

And I just had this moment after my mum actually said to me, my mum said to me, I can't do anything about whether you live or die. This is my mum. She looked me in the eyes and said that. And I was like, and she said, I'm taking my hands off your life. Wow. And my mum's a nurse. Like she'd done absolutely everything to read about eating disorders, to support me. But there was something in that that that shifted the emphasis of, okay, it is down to me. Only I can do this. And about two weeks later,

I just had this moment where I realized that I was pummeling an already hurting person. Because that's what addiction is. It sticks a knife in again, again, and again. And whilst it provides temporary relief, it does work, doesn't it? Just for a nanosecond, all those layers of what you haven't processed get bigger and bigger, and the shame and the disgust and the self-punishment you feel grows and grows. And I just, I don't know, I don't know where it came from, but I just thought there has got to be more to life than this. And around that time, because my life, I can kind of play out through the songs that were popular at the time.

That's how I channel my emotions. So it was the Robbie Williams song, Feel. I want to feel real love. Coming over here, I want to contact the living. I felt like I was just existing. I felt like I was a robot. And I suddenly realized I have got some worth in this world. It makes me a bit emotional thinking about it because, you know, from that moment I haven't looked back. It's been like I am on this earth and I'm stuck with me. So I might as well like myself and look after me.

That revelation was so powerful. I still don't want to put any weight on though. Like it took years of therapy for me to agree because I was so powerful. I still don't want to put any weight on though. Like it took years of therapy for me to agree because I was so afraid. But once I did realize and you know I wasn't having periods, I had a bone scan done, I had the hips and spine of like a 70 year old at the age of 21. I was like well my body's not really coping. And then I was like right I've got to do it. I mean I've got size nine feet. I live in a larger body. So BMI scales are bollocks for me.

Yeah. Well, we'll talk about that a bit because we set so much stock in the body mass index, which is the kind of metric by which all of our health is judged. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually we know it's dated, it's racist, it's all sorts of things, you know?

And I think this is the thing, isn't racist, it's all sorts of things, you know. And I think this is the thing, isn't it? We try and put a vast population of people into very strict measures. And I guess based on some guy who wrote it like hundreds of years ago. Yeah. And it's kind of like, you know, we hear this all the time, rugby players who are incredibly fit who are morbidly obese or whatever according to the BMI's The other thing I wanted to say and this is really important is that what you said there was that it took years and years of therapy for you to start to get well

and I hear this so often and I look back at my own journey of recovery and I think we're so desperate for like instant cures and like make me better and make me normal, you know, and actually that thing that I want to say to people who are on this, you know, journey of, I sound so corny now, but this journey of healing is that, you know, it does take time, you know, and you need to give yourself time and give yourself patience, you know, and you need to be, you know, you need to give yourself time and give yourself patience, you know, be patient with yourself and with that little girl inside you that,

you know, you spoke to there where you were like, I can't keep pummeling this person because I ain't gonna, I'm not gonna carry on if I do that. Yeah. And I think that's it, you know, and I could get controversial, but it's just, I'm sure fine. Yeah, do, please. You know, our healthcare system, A, is struggling, but B, is centered around cognitive behavioral therapy. And there are obviously some great elements with that, but I think it is a nice, cheap sticking plaster to manage symptoms. And I think we need to get to the roots. I mean, early intervention is- To go deeper.

Oh my gosh, yes, because that takes more time. By that you mean looking at, you know, what is at the bottom of why we might go through life with these unhelpful beliefs about ourselves. Yeah. Because I do think that's, for me, when I talk about to people, when people come to me and say, could you recommend a good therapist for OCD or binge eating or whatever? And what I realized being in recovery

is that actually the most helpful form of therapy that I have had, and which actually I think you should have before the CBT, the CBT gives you the practical skills. But what I really needed was to be able to sit down with myself and look back on my past and my childhood and see why it was that I had developed these kind of unhelpful coping mechanisms. The other thing was I wasn't

ready for that. That's the thing. And like I say, CBD has its place. Yeah. But I'm yeah, I'm in the business. Let's do a thorough job. I don't like the thought of sending someone off and then just transferring on to another way of coping. Yeah, which happens. It's like a whack-a-mole. Yeah, of course.

And you know, there's lots of reasons for that. But I would love to see, I'm loving the fact that you said let's do a more thorough job and that therapy can take years because I think we need to hear more of that. I think we really do. But also I think we feel this sort of like, almost like we're being disloyal to our families. And I have to say that you can look At your childhood. It's okay to say okay. This is not being critical It's just saying well, this is how humans are we all make mistakes

Yeah I would recommend for my kids and both my girls have had therapy because I'm like they've got to deal with me, right? Yeah, well, oh my god. Yeah, my daughter has had some you know, cuz I'm like, they've got to deal with me, right? Yeah, well, oh my God. Yeah, my daughter has had some. You know, because I'm honest, I was in active addiction until she was four. And if we look at, you know, and I think lots of people see eating disorders actually as addiction issues, and they are often treated in the same sort of facilities.

While I was alcohol sober or whatever, but you know, I've had experiences with foods that weren't healthy. Yeah, and there is no perfect parenting. I think that's for me that I've really been on a journey with, of like, I can only do the best I can do, and it won't be perfect. And they're individuals, but let's give them the skills.

Let's not be ashamed of our flaws. Let's just be open about it. And that's what I've tried to do. I do think also it's not moving into a position of fear when you see your child perhaps exhibiting qualities that might point towards disordered eating. Because I think that there is an element of actually if you confront it and say, well that's not actually healthy, but it's okay because we live in a society that doesn't necessarily encourage

healthy eating or healthy attitudes towards food, Let's talk about it instead of like almost shaming the child for feeling it. So yeah. Don't feel that. No, no, no, don't, don't, don't, don't. That's bad. Oh, well, that's really helpful. Thank you. Because whilst I would say my girls are doing quite well, we've had plenty of conversations around that. And there's been times where they've experimented with things because they will. You know and it's how you support

them to understand that, to respect their body but yeah not be frightened or ashamed. I think it's where you know shame if you see something in your child as a failure in you. Yeah I mean that's but also it's that thing of like it's not about you. No and I think for I think for me, having learned that, I was like, all right, just tackling it and having boundaries around it and that's okay. But generally that openness, I think for me living, you know, my personality growing up

was that I kept everything on the inside. Like I didn't talk to anyone, which was part of the reason why I got an eating disorder. So, you know, I'm always kind of encouraging the girls to open up, yeah. I think that's what we try and do as a family. So going back to binge eating disorder and anyone listening who I think I have this,

what do I do next? What I was so amazed by going back to that thing of like, wow, I'm 41 years old and I'm basically learning how to eat normally, you know, what's really interesting and I thought we could talk a little bit about the traps that people fall into that makes it very much harder for them. So I know that lots of people, if they're brave enough to go to a doctor and say, I think I have binge eating disorder, probably what will happen

is they'll get put on a diet, which is the worst thing that you can do. If you keep thinking diets are gonna solve your binge eating disorder, actually they're probably making it worse. Yeah, because that psychological distress combined with physical hunger, my gosh, that's, you know, those two things combined are the worst thing you can do for someone with binge eating disorder.

And the thing is, when we work together, that regular eating, you actually stabilize how much you eat rather than having these kind of blowouts and learn to get in sync with your body again and connect with what it needs. But yeah, it is torturous to be in that position where you believe you should be on a diet.

You're hungry, but you're also emotionally starving. Yeah. So talk to me about that, how it is about, I always remember you saying to me, you know, who's meeting your needs? And I was like, what? What do you mean? Like, well, no one. I mean, I meet my, you know, I meet my needs. You're like, who's meets, you know, how are you getting your emotional needs met and having to sit and really think with that? And the other thing was, one of the things I found quite healing is just really being able to get to grips with food and the way I eat it and the way I consume it.

And I remember you saying, you have to sit at the kitchen table and eat a meal with your husband. And I was like, what? Without your phones, without any, you know, and I think a lot of us get stuck in that sort of, I was like, I don't know if I have a kitchen table. It was your face when I said it to you, like, what is this alien thing you speak of? Well, no, because then I realized how much every day eating food in front of the telly

with my phone was like a way of numbing myself. And when you actually sit down and eat and have a conversation and take your time, you're like, you realize how your needs are met quite interestingly. Yeah, but it's both. It's that kind of connection with your family, but it's also stomach and brain connection because when you're eating as a family and you're talking, you tend to be a lot slower as well. Yeah. And we know that for people with eating disorders, their receptors in their stomach might be a bit slower to tell their brains that they're full. Yes, definitely.

So it's really good to encourage slower eating and the best distraction is having, well, a child there. And your family. But it's also the meaning of it, of connection. I think food is something that brings people together and we've lost that meaning, I think food is something that brings people together and we've lost that meaning, I think. vaccine. Ask your healthcare provider about EREXV. EREXV is a vaccine that helps to protect adults 60 years of age and older from lower lung disease caused by respiratory syncytial

virus RSV. 100% protection cannot be guaranteed. Adverse events may occur. Learn more at erexv.ca. I think it's so interesting how disordered eating shows up in ostensibly healthy ways. And we could spend several episodes of this podcast talking about the world of podcasts out there, which are all about, should you be eating seed oils? You know, like, why you need to cut this from your diet to make you... And the weird American accent I've just given this podcast host is not me putting shade at anyone in particular. But there is this whole world of like disordered eating masked as wellness out there now, I

think. Oh my gosh. You know, we're measuring our blood sugar levels constantly. You know, like, well, what does that tell me? It tells me that my blood sugar reacts when I have a pizza or a piece of chocolate, which is what it should do. It should spike.

There's this whole kind of like, yeah, this whole world of very disordered eating that has been normalized. And I have to be really careful to sort of not get sucked into that whole like, oh, ultra processed food, bad, bad, bad. Now, undoubtedly, there will be an element of how ultra processed food will contribute to binge eating

disorder because it has, you know, a lot of it's been created to be like Pringles, literally, once you pop, you can't stop. But I think, I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about this, but the research investment into obesity, I mean, I don't know what the difference is, but the small amount of research that we have into binge eating disorder, it pales in comparison to obesity. So all the research that's coming up around ultra processed foods is driven, you know, but and there almost can be two separate research wells, but the crossover is massive and we're trying to join

forces. No one wants to talk about how actually all of these illnesses are illnesses of a culture in which people need to numb themselves. And they make money and they drive perfectionism. So if we all know we're not good enough, what a great way to control us all. We're getting very, very, very, very, let's not go down that rabbit hole. We're going quite revolutionary. Anyway, let's talk a bit about weight loss injectables,

as they have become known. We go V, which is the form of a Zempick for people that use it for appetite control or whatever. Mount Jaro, I think it's that one. Trepesa, summer glutide. Anyway, these are all over the news. People talk about them all the time. It's such a fascinating conversation.

And I really wanted to have this with you because on the one hand you have people that are abusing these drugs, by which I mean people that are not, don't qualify on the metrics of the BMI as obese and who don't need to lose weight, you know, who are using it for disordered eating purposes, right? So we have that world, yeah. But on the other hand, and this is really interesting and this is where I want to get into it, is I have friends who would class themselves as binge eaters or who would say that a lot of their lives have been blighted by feelings of shame around their disordered eating patterns, who have started to take it and who have said that it has been the most liberating experience because suddenly they eat just like a normal person three times a day and it switches

off that noise and that's interesting and that is really worth having a conversation about. You know I'm often asked could you write a piece saying how much you you know you look down on people taking a Zempic and I'm like I'm not here to shame you know everyone has their reasons. As an eating disorder expert and specialist what are your views on these drugs? Yeah so I think think anything that's going to perpetuate the disordered eating, not grain, it being abused for people who I would say are in a healthy weight range, what they would consider not necessarily be a mind, but you know, they are healthy. That's not safe. Just to lose a few extra pounds. Not safe, not safe.

To look red carpet ready as we hear about celebrities doing. However, I think for those who are physically compromised by being overweight, I think we really need to hold them in mind that that is who I assume this is made for. And what was the clincher for me was I was working with someone with binge eating disorder and I've worked with a few people but I tend to work with the other eating disorders. And we can get to this stage where, due to their size, they're not able to exercise. And if you're not able to exercise, then you get to this plateau of not being able to lose weight.

It's actually impossible. And I found it really interesting. I was working alongside a dietician and she did the whole proper you know intake and assess yeah actually it's impossible for this person to lose weight i was like oh my gosh that's really hard knowing that you're stuck in this position so i suppose in that kind of scenario to me to have to have something that supports the mindset you know quietens down whatever's going on and i think we don't know enough about the brain to really understand what that is. To enable them to get physically

well, I can't see how we would refuse that because that's health for them. And health is not just physical health, it's mental health. And I think how you balance those things is completely different for every person. I never come along with a standard of, right, you must do this, this, because each person and how they relate to their health is different. When I worked with you, it was different. But we worked with your understanding on it. And so for those people, you know, really who are struggling with their weight, who can't lose it, they would describe to me that every moment of every day is a trigger. You know, sitting in a chair here. That's an emotional trigger.

Being fat ashamed, literally by the environment around you, not just by people, but by... Cinema. Going to the cinema, automatically, I don't fit in the chair. The emotional triggers around that, I can't imagine. However, I do have a close family member who is in that position and has recently started taking it. And I am blown away because when they said to me, the noise is gone. And experiencing the amount of shame they have in that once it's gonna get emotional, I am an emotional being, I'm okay with it.

When you know how tough that has been, how hard the dark days they've been through, and they have that bit of relief to think, oh, maybe it wasn't me, maybe it wasn't my lack of willpower, maybe, oh you know. Well also this whole talk of willpower it just annoys me because you know in a way it takes a lot of willpower to continue punishing your body in the ways that we do be it binge eating, drinking, taking drugs, you know gambling, whatever the addictive behaviour happens to be. And there is sort of, oh, like maybe there is a bit of my brain chemistry that just literally makes it harder for me to be moderate, whatever that fucking word is. But I do think also it may switch off the brain noise, but what it won't ever switch off

is that understanding of your own psychology. And I think that's really crucial for life generally, just generally for your resilience as a human being. This is why I recommend therapy to anyone, not just the unwell. In fact, therapy is amazing when you're well, because it's like, oh, I can do this now and I can keep this in my armoury for times when life gets tough. But what it can't give you is that understanding of your own psychology and why you might resort

to unhealthy coping mechanisms from time to time. And they're also connected and figuring out those connections are so important to piece all together. I mean, it's a corny analogy, but it's the classic therapist phrase of piecing together the jigsaw puzzle. And that's how I see what we do as therapists is piece that together, but also then impart the skills so you don't need us. You know, so well, until you maybe, you know, a burst of therapy later on, because I mean, I'm always looking for an excuse to go back. I love therapy too. But it is it it's piecing together. And I, you know, I would say the other thing about the brain chemistry stuff is, you know, neurodivergence, like ADHD and

eating disorders, autism and eating disorders. We know there's massive crossover and how that affects, you know, the brain processing. So there's so much I don't know and so much we don't know. However, I think we just need to be embracing. You know, I think of people's distress, how they feel, what they want to work on and not make judgments about that. You know, it's different for different people in how they view their health and how you piece that all together and connect it back.

You know, it's a journey to go on. It is a journey to go on. And for me personally, it's really interesting because I remember when I had to go on. It is a journey to go on. And for me personally, it was really interesting because I remember when I had to go to rehab to stop drinking and taking drugs because it was killing me. I remember food really came up then, but I remember a counsellor very wisely saying to me, well, you've got to deal with whatever's going to kill you first, right? And at that point it wasn't cooking chorizo.

It was cocaine. And it was Carlsberg sticking with the alliteration there. And for a time, I think, food, it helped me to get sober in a way. And I always say to people that come to me, lots of times women come to me and they go, I'm trying to get sober, but I'm really ashamed by how my food has gone off the scale.

And I'm like, give yourself a break, you know? And for me, it was like, me being able to notice the binge eating was in itself a symptom of my recovery because I couldn't even look at it before because there was too much other noise above it. And it's like, I see this as kind of like peeling layers of the onion off, as we call it in recovery, but like, oh, OK, so I dealt with the alcohol

and the drugs and then about two and a half years in, I was able to look at the food and then I got rid of the smoking, you know, and then the food came up again a bit. And then, you know, like, I find it really fascinating to be able to notice in myself how my brain will sort of try and latch on to another addictive behaviour, but how it's become along the way a lot calmer and a lot less needy of that, you know? And it is a journey and, you know, maybe I will go into gambling or something or, you know, like I don't know, but I don't think so. I feel a lot like calmer. This is good to hear.

I think also the connection between substance abuse and eating disorders, we need to name that because it is so common, you know, that people will transfer onto eating disorders, something to look out for. And we seem to have a million rehab centers in Bournemouth for some reason, which is where I live. And I've been in bed to talk about food because it's really important actually, I think, for people in rehab to have education around how it impacts their food because I think then you know they need to understand that that's common and it does happen and not to be ashamed of it. So we will be back later in the week with a bonus episode of The Life of Briony, The Life of You, where Jess will be answering some very practical questions about getting help for an eating disorder.

But if it hasn't come out yet, or you're listening now, Jess, if someone is listening and thinks they have an eating disorder or suspects someone they love might have an eating disorder, what is your practical advice now for next steps? So the first thing is to reach out for support. And we're in a challenging time where there isn't access to services.

However, BEAT has got a free helpline, lots of ways to contact and their helpline advisors can really guide you through how to access treatment and they've got leaflets on taking something to your GP so you don't even have to say what's going on. But what I would say is you've got to get on that road, you've got to ask for help. It's very unlikely that you can do it on your own. And there are people that will walk alongside you. You can go to your GP as well and we would encourage that to get a referral to an eating disorder service. However, like I say, I think BEAT's a really good source of knowledge. And then I think also for family members, we have probably around 1.5 million, 1.75 million people with eating disorders in the

UK. But if you take their support network into account, a huge amount of people, six, seven, eight million. So we know that people do much better when their carers are skilled and understanding an eating disorder and know how to talk about them. Yeah. So actually, just quickly, are there some things that, you know, absolute no-goes to, that you shouldn't like say to someone with an eating disorder, like don't force them to eat or, yeah, are there any kind of key things that come to mind? If you're recognising someone's got an issue, the worst thing you can do is just point out their behaviours because they already feel ashamed of them.

So it will only pour on shame and they'll disconnect from you at that kind of recognition stage. So I always say just stick with feelings. Like how are you really doing? Like how, you know, please just let me know what's going on. And I guess you need to build that trust and that connection and then just really sensitively say, you know, express your concern. And you can do that in a gentle way. But I always think having that really hard conversation is important because so often the person within you sort of won't recognize it themselves.

We know that people aren't reaching out for help. So actually it does involve our community, people around us having that conversation. And once again, Beat have some really good guidance on how to have that conversation. So do you take a look, ring the helpline? We will put all of the numbers and links in the show notes if you want to get those. Jess Griffiths, thank you so much for coming on The Life of Bryony and having this open

therapy session with me. It's been amazing and I'll see you on Friday for Q&A. It's a beautiful thing. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much to Jess for that. Her ability to demystify something as complex as binge eating disorder is kind of remarkable. If this conversation resonated with you, I encourage you to check out Jess's book called Eating Disorders The Basics, which covers all sorts of different eating disorders. Or visit BEAT for practical advice and support. Links are, of course, in the show notes.

Remember, you are not alone in this. Seeking help or asking for it is not a sign of weakness, but one of the bravest steps you can take. And I always think that if you ask for help and if you reach out and let people know that you need help, you're sort of being a mental health advocate in yourself because when we speak about our truths and when we allow ourselves to be counted and acknowledged, we're helping lots of other people. The more that we are honest about this, the more people are able to create resources that help others with it. I don't know if that makes sense, but I think it's a really important thing to remember when you're scared of asking for help, that in asking for help, you are doing really important mental to remember when you're scared of asking for help, that in asking for help you are doing really important mental health advocacy. Because if we don't report

it the powers that be don't know how much help is needed for it. Back on Friday for the Life of You. Until then, take care. Thanks for watching!