The Life Of Bryony - Cat Sims on Alcoholism, Motherhood and the Truth About Getting Sober

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

This week, I’m joined by writer, creator and fellow sober woman Cat Sims for a conversation that is raw, funny, uncomfortable in places, and deeply hopeful. We talk about what “functioning alcoholism” really looks like when you’re a mother, why so many women struggle in silence, and the strange loneliness of feeling completely out of control while still appearing to hold everything together.Cat opens up about blackout drinking, cocaine, shame, motherhood, marriage, and the terrifying moments that finally forced her to confront her addiction. We also talk about recovery, AA, emotional sobriety, social media, parenting teenage daughters, and why learning to apologise might be one of the bravest things a person can do.This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered if their drinking has become a problem, and for anyone who needs reminding that change is possible, even when it feels impossible.WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOUGot something to share? Message us on @lifeofbryonypod on Instagram.If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need it – it really helps! Bryony xxCREDITS:Host: Bryony GordonGuest: Cat Sims Producer: Laura Elwood-Craig Assistant Producer: Tippi Willard Studio Manager: Mitchell LiasProduction Manager: Vittoria CecchiniEditor: Rowan JacobsExec Producer: Jamie East A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, gorgeous ones. Now, as you know, the life of Briney likes to explore topics that few others have the courage to get into. And the topic we do like no other podcast is sobriety and battling with alcohol. Today, I have the brilliant Cat Sims, aka Not So Smug Now on Instagram, to talk about one of the most taboo elements of all of this. And that's what happens when you're a mum and you realize you have a problem with addiction. My marriage was hanging on by a thread, but it was still there. And so it's very easy to wake up and go, you're not actually, if you think about it, you're not really an alcoholic.

You didn't lose everything. You didn't lose everything. Even if you're not willing to accept that you're an alcoholic, I can promise you, whoever you are, your life without alcohol will be infinitely better. I looked around and I was like, oh, all of a sudden that person's not winding me up anymore. I don't hate that person anymore.

And I thought at the time they meant that they would change Yeah. And the reality was I had changed. Yeah. And that had made people, places and things easier. My conversation with Kat coming up right after this. Kat Sims, welcome to the life of Pryony. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to have you. Now, Kat, I wanted to get you on because I love following you on the social media. And you were sick of me badgering you.

Like, just get her on because she's never going to let go. She's just going to keep bothering me. No, I honestly, I don't, I like being bothered. I like that keen, that keen enthusiasm. I would like more people to be keenly enthusiastic to come on the life of Briny. Delusional optimism is how I try to live my life. I wanted to get you on because as many listeners of the life of Briney know, I am a sober woman. Are you?

Yes. I don't know. You've never heard of that. What? If I'd ever mentioned it before. But I am an alcoholic in recovery. And I love having conversations about being in recovery from alcoholism because I don't think we have them enough, Kat. I agree. And as you know, and I think you're open about this. I'm going to do it. There is that sort of should how much should we talk about, especially doing the program that we do. Because I'm in Alcoholics Anonymous. And there is that, you know, tradition 11, whatever, should we talk about it? And for a long time, I was like, I'm going to respect that. And all the rest of it, we shouldn't talk about it, level of, you know, public interest and stuff like that.

I have since decided in my own personal way that that is probably a tradition that comes from a very age-old thinking where there was so much shame around what we did. Being an alcoholic. Being an alcoholic and who we are and being in a program. And for me, on a very personal level, and it is a decision everybody has to make, I have never found that those conversations, those times I've mentioned it, have ever, ever been anything other than helpful. And I do understand the risks. But for me, I think the benefit of being open and honest about AA, my alcoholism, my sobriety far outweighs the risk.

I think it's a really interesting one as well as someone who's very public about being an alcoholic because I think there is a huge amount of shame around being an alcoholic. And for me, I don't see any conflict in talking about my experience of being an alcoholic and my experience of being sober and breaking those traditions or whatever anonymity. I see it is that I'm allowed to say that I go to meetings. I'm not allowed to say that you go to meetings. A hundred percent. And also I feel like there's a lot of... Because you've said that you go to meetings. I go to. I go to meetings. Not as often as I should actually at the moment, but you know, life is life.

I also think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what recovery, the way I do it, AA looks like, you know, and I do want to sort of bust through that because I think a lot of what kept me out of recovery for a long time was I don't belong in those meetings because I'm not an alcoholic like those people are. You know, and it was, I don't know, maybe I wasn't, because I wasn't sleeping on a park bench or I didn't have a big red nose or I hadn't lost my kids or my licence or whatever, I thought that was where those people went. I was just a party girl who was a bit out of control.

And there was another way for me. I just needed, but anyway, in the end, I decided talking about it is the best thing I've ever done. It's not for everybody. And people will disagree. I think there's value in shining a light on my experience and how I recovered, you know, how I am recovering. Yeah.

I think that's also true. I think a lot of the judgment around. alcoholism and is that people lots people say to me oh I don't want to define myself by being an alcoholic you know I did roll my eyes that you can't if you're just listening you won't have seen that but I rolled my eyes quite significantly there I find the joy of defining myself as an alcoholic is it gets me it allows me to be all the other things I am in my life a mother a podcaster righter if I forget for a minute that I'm an alcoholic everything else goes to shit yeah that's a really

reality of it, you know, and especially with the kind of alcoholic I am, which is largely binge drinking, you know, very sort of insidious, quiet alcoholism. It wasn't obvious. There was a lot of people who were like, what, you're an alcoholic? Yeah. Well, you're doing, you're drinking, but you're also doing reformer Pilates. Yeah, exactly. You know, and I've got a job and my kids love me. I mean, my marriage was hanging on by a thread, but it was still there. And so for me, it's very easy to wake up and go, well, you're not actually, if you think about it, not really an alcoholic. You didn't lose everything. You didn't lose everything. And so it's really important that I keep front in my mind you're a raging drunk. Like that is the reality. Give yourself half a chance you'll be

straight back there. And that helps keep me accountable. It keeps me focused. And I had this conversation with my sister who I love and she's very much into like manifestation and the secret, which is fine. And that didn't sound like it was, that's not what I meant. She's going to call me and go, really. It is fine. What I mean is she called me and she said, the thing I don't understand is you're constantly repeating the negative thing. I'm an alcoholic. I'm an alcoholic. And her sort of way of thinking, that's making the negative come true. And I was like, I had to sort of explain to her that for me actually, that's the positive, that's the, there's nothing negative for me about being an alcoholic. That is just who I am. Bad.

or good, you know, and the good thing is that I get to know that. And so reminding, the bad thing happens when I forget that. So it is a weird way of approaching it. But for me, I remind myself every single morning, you're an alcoholic. So let's go back to what it was like before you got sober and got recovery. Because I do remember you doing a like from the get-go that you decided to get sober, you were very honest and open about it on Instagram. So tell me what it was like before that if,

because I think it's really important to hear these stories of women inactive alcoholism because it allows other women to realize they're not alone and then go on to get help. And what we really essentially want is people, alcoholics, to be able to go into recovery, right? Yeah. And for me it was, you know, like you say, I would never say I was a functioning alcoholic because I just, I just think that I think I was surviving. I was getting away with it.

Yeah. But I don't think I was functioning. No, but that is what functioning, when people say they're a functioning alcoholic, it's like you're getting away with it. That's what it is. Like I was living my life on this knife edge of like total fucking disaster and I got away with it again. And nine times like 10, I got away with it. And that's really easy to kind of tell you so because there's no enormous consequences or not enormous consequences that are very visible to everybody,

that you're not an alcoholic. And the reality is I was drinking pretty much every day. I might take a day off during the week one night or something because then I wasn't an alcoholic. But I was drinking every evening. As soon as it hit 5 o'clock, if it was a nice day, it would be earlier. Definitely never before 12, but like I always used to say, I never drank in the morning.

And then my sponsor went, you know, those nights when you were doing loads of Coke and you were still drinking wine at 6 in the morning. And I was like, yeah, she goes like, that counts as drinking in the morning. And I was like, no, but I didn't go to sleep and then wake up. And she's like, it counts. I was like, okay, great. Also, I remember someone saying to me, I was like that as well. I was like, I didn't like wake up and want to drink.

In fact, when I woke up, I was appalled and I never wanted to drink again, you know. And I remember when I went, I was lucky enough to be able to go to rehab. And I remember the guy that ran the rehab going, yet. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't wake up and drink yet. Yeah.

And also, even if I didn't want to drink, it wasn't long before I was figuring out the next drink. Well, I do think there is that thing of a lot of us con ourselves by going. I'm not, I don't drink during the day. But towards the end of my drinking, it didn't really matter because I was. thinking about drinking all the day. All the time. And I would get to a point sometimes where it might be 11 o'clock in the morning

and I wasn't going to drink on my own, but I would call a friend and go, do you fancy meeting up for lunch, knowing that they would, so that I could drink. And knowing that it wouldn't just be lunch. It would be, you know, I'd end up in some random flat in Labbrook Grove at 4 o'clock in the morning with somebody who offered me cocaine or something.

I'd be like, yeah, that's great idea. Let's go do that. You know, and that's the insanity of it. like, you know, I'd wake up and I'd be like, oh, you know, cow's milk's too, cow's milk is a step too far, but cocaine's fine. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'd spend my evening going, drinking whatever somebody gave me, put it in my hand. I'd go and sit in some Ford Fiesta in Soho with some drug dealer while we drove around

the block and we did some whatever it was. And then I'd put all of that up my nose, God knows what that was. But then I'd wake up in the morning. maybe make myself a protein shake and take some neurofen but I'd read the back of the label of the neurofen to make sure I was taking that responsibly and the irony of it all

I'm laughing because it's so relatable. It's so true. The irony of it all was just like when people point that out to me when people are pointing this out to me and they're going yeah but you did this and did that it didn't matter that I was only drinking oat milk and doing reform of polaris

and all the rest of it. In my brain it sort of felt like that cancelled it out it didn't cancel it out even slightly because my marriage was hanging on by a thread because I wasn't nice and I lied so when you say you weren't nice what were you like as a drunk I mean as a drunk to everybody else I was never an aggressive angry cross drunk but with my husband that was always when I started a fight and I was never and I'd always been quite you know, eloquent, able to string a few fucking sentences together. And I knew that I could beat my husband into submission, like, in an argument.

It sounds like we were married to, I feel like perhaps. We're quite similar people. We are maybe, and we maybe are quite similar people. Cut from the same cloth. And I would do that and I would shut him up and, you know, I'd come back at 6 o'clock in the morning, gurning from the night out. And he was like, it's not normal that you have two. small children that you now have to look after from seven o'clock and this is the state you're in

and I was like well you're not the normal one I'd gaslight him you're not the normal one because like I was out with 12 other mums who are doing the same thing and you're the one that doesn't drink so who's the weird one you know and it was all of this and it wasn't nice and I and you know I'm an addict somewhere along the line I picked a man who was a codependent because that really works for me. Like he's going to put my wants and needs before his. There might be people listening who don't know what this language means. And I think that's really important and I'm really grateful that you are bringing this into normal conversation. Just for anyone who doesn't know what the word codependent means, could you explain that? Yeah, it's kind of an unhealthy,

it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like you saw the menopause in full, like action then it's the habit of kind of forming unhealthy attachments to people um you're not happy unless they're happy they'll put their wants somebody else's wants and needs before their own and it's unpleasant for both people like as much as i joke about how it was useful for me and it was really useful as an addict of course it was but like it also feels quite overwhelming quite claustrophobic and And for them, it feels terrifying. You know, it's like, there's this need to control me because if I'm happy and doing what I think he thinks I should be doing, then he can be happy.

It's a very, very unhealthy way. And it doesn't come from a place of nastiness or unkindness, but it did mean that we were a pretty perfect pairing for an addict who wanted to get away with as much for as long as possible and a husband who just didn't want to get in the way and didn't know how to stop it, but also was kind of torn between wanting me to be everything else but not knowing how to tell me and how to ask me. He would never ever. And this was the other thing.

I thought sort of knew that Jimmy would never divorce me. Like never. He would never divorce me. And so that kind of gave me this like carte blanche. And there were times when he absolutely 100. 100% should have fucking divorced me 100%. And I'm gratefully didn't. We did a lot of work.

We did couples therapy. I got sober and, you know, it's it taught us a lot about what a marriage really is and kind of uncovering that rom-con, that kind of, this is what love looks like. You know, he knows what you're thinking all the time. And he reads your mind and you have this connection, he buys your flowers and does all this stuff like that. bollocks it was like actually and this doesn't sound particularly romantic but really marriage is waking up on those mornings when you don't want to be

married and sort of still choosing to be like choosing because those days always happen there are always days where you're sober drunk whatever where you wake up and you're like I want to punch him in the face I don't want to be anywhere near him but you know we worked really hard to get to a point of acceptance that those days happen and

that we have to take responsibility and make a choice individually to carry on every day but if I'd not got sober I think I would have probably spent the rest of both of our lives making us both miserable not to mention the children oh yeah them

I didn't mean to be like but no you're right you know I don't know about you Kat but the shame I felt when I gave birth like it didn't even occur to me when I got pregnant that I would continue to drink

when I gave birth in exactly the way that I had before I got pregnant you didn't think that you thought that it would I genuinely thought pregnancy would do for me what like it would be what did they think it fixed you?

Well I didn't think I was an alcoholic I was like I'm a party girl and now I'm pregnant and now I'll be a mum and I'll be a mum and now I've got married and I have you know a home so obviously I

I don't carry on drinking like I did. Right, right, right. And then I remember giving birth and like as soon as I was physically well enough after having an emergency C-section, all I wanted to do was drink. And I remember thinking, fucking hell. Like being so horrified and so ashamed and unable. But that knowledge wasn't enough to stop me from drinking. And I had to sort of bury it under layers of justification.

Like happy mom, happy baby. And I don't drink, you know, I wait till the babies are asleep, you know, and all of that. And also, like, you know, those moments, I used to do this a lot because Jimmy was touring. So when he came home, I used to feel really entitled to like, now I can go out and get shitfaced. Yeah. Or now it's my time. Now I don't have to answer to anybody. Yeah.

And that's a really natural feeling when you've been on your own for a long time, right? I get that. But it was just, it was all fueled by drinking. How old was your little one when you got sober? Can I ask? Yeah, yeah. She was four. So you're very similar to me in that mine were

And I'm very grateful for this There's a lot of shame But mine were Young enough that they didn't really see The full impact of my drinking Like I did a lot of my drinking out of the house And when they weren't around So they, but they definitely saw me too hung over to get up

Too hung over to make it to Sunday lunch with family Too hung over to do swimming lessons in the morning To be fair, I don't have to be hung over to not want to do swimming lessons in the morning. But like, so they definitely saw it, but I do feel very grateful that they weren't, you know, teenagers. Yeah. Who I think that's, yeah, I have that.

But I also know that apps, like, I get a bit emotional, actually, even thinking about this. Like, my daughter will be 13 next week, you know. So she has definitely had a sober mom for much longer than, she's had a drunk mom, but she's always had an alcoholic mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, the moment you get sober isn't the moment that you suddenly grow up and everything becomes really wonderful, you know, like that is a process.

I'm eight and a half, nearly nine years sober, and but I feel like a nine-year-old child, you know. And so I know that some of my patterns of behavior absolutely have shaped. her, you know, and so it's not just the drinking. And I definitely see that. I can see that in ways that I won't kind of go into or, but, and, but that is, but that's just what it is. Well, and also I think whether you're an addict or not, you're going to have negative

behaviour patterns that impact your kids in some way, shape or forth. Like, nobody is perfect. And I totally see what you're saying. right. But you're right there as well in that the important thing is, is to, is to acknowledge those negative behaviour patterns and then go, I'm trying to make them better. And in my mind and in my heart, that is modelling to my daughter that she can make mistakes in her life and she, things will go wrong for her and that's okay. I say this all the time and, you know, I get it wrong. I get parenting wrong a lot like I do. And for whatever reason, it's a true.

tricky thing, right? And my daughter is also going to be 13 towards the end of the year. So we're very much in that. It's a difficult period. And I get it wrong. I shout, I scream. I slam doors. I say things and, you know, not all the time, but I do do it. And there is part of me that goes, I can't believe we did that. And I want to slip into shame. And then the other part of me goes, do you know what? This is actually a great opportunity for you to model the thing that you never had, which I I love my mum, but I don't think I've ever heard of apologize in a life. And go to my kids or the kid, whichever one I've managed to fuck it up with in that moment and just say, look, that was not right. I messed up there. I handled that really badly. I'm really sorry. I'm going to do better next time.

And part of what I really believe is just like you say, that shows them that making mistakes is human. That's fine. But it also shows them that it's the repeal. where the real strength is because I am always blown away by people who and it doesn't happen very often. In fact, it happens so rarely that I think it's part of what's wrong with the world. People who come up to me and go, do you know what, I did this and I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have done it. Oh, it's such a beautiful moment. And I can't imagine, well I can. I can absolutely imagine how much it took them to do that because I know what it's like when I have to apologize,

especially to my husband, like I need to carbload, stretch. like meditate for a bit, call a friend, you know, have a strong coffee. So I know that, but there is never a part of me that thinks any less of anybody who does that. It is nothing but total unbridled raw admiration for somebody who can come up and do that. And so I... So, you know what? Sorry. As you saying that, I was thinking it is so rare for people to admit that they've made a mistake and then come and repair it.

And the thing that it repairs in you as a person, because I don't know about you, and I'm sure there will be people listening, you get this, is that when someone, like, does you, like, wrongs you, and then they don't apologise for it, you're like, am I mad? Am I mad? And you stop trusting yourself a little bit.

And then, so when someone comes and just owns their behaviour, it's like a beautiful healing moment where you're like, no, no, no, I do trust my instinct. Yeah. And so it's such an important. thing on so many levels for your own conscience. But also what you're giving to someone else is the ability to kind of trust themselves a bit more. Totally.

And then on the other flip side of that, I have to do, you know, Ricky Jervais says that thing where he goes, is it offensive or are you offended? I have to do that thing with being hurt because like I will perceive hurt, rejection, criticism in every shape or form if it's there. So I have to say, was it hurtful or am I feeling hurt? because sometimes people do things or say things that no intention of hurting me. It was not like, whatever.

And I can get into that place of resentment where I'm like, well, they haven't apologised. What, fuck them. I'm like, I'm never calling them again. Well, she's a bitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually, if I really sit down and think about it, I go, okay, it did hurt my feelings.

But on reflection, that might be a me problem. And it could just be sometimes it's like, do I want to be right or happy? I want to be both cats. I know I do too, but apparently you can't be. I've learned this. We sometimes you can, but it's rare. Sometimes I'm like, do you know what, actually,

I'm just going to deal with that on my own. I'm going to let myself let go of that. Yeah. Because I don't think that's what they intend. Because I can, I mean, I can perceive something, some sort of criticism. It's just not there. It's just not there at all.

Absolutely. I'm listening to you and I'm like, God, she sounds so wise. And what I realize is that, And not that I'm saying that you're not naturally wise, but I'm imagining like me, a lot of this wisdom comes from the act of getting sober. 100%.

Sort of that. And the act of accepting you're an alcoholic and then doing the work and getting a program, right? And so this goes back to a bit of when someone says to you, oh, it's a bit negative to describe yourself as an alcoholic. As I've gone on in my sobriety, I'm just immensely grateful to be an alcoholic. fucking grateful.

And somebody said to me, would you take it, if I could wipe it all away, the alcoholism and you could just drink normally, would you do it? I was like, absolutely not. No, no. Because the lessons I have learned, this. And this is the thing, it's like, I know there's a lot of therapy speak and all of this about like, people need to respect your boundaries and you're just, they're all, whatever, taking the pit, list, that and the other.

I'm like, that's all great. And sometimes they are and that's fine. But actually, what I have learned to be the most helpful thing is always assume I'm the problem. Start there. doesn't always have to end there but let's just assume right off the bat that somehow I'm the problem

either I've caused this somehow or I am seeing this for something that it isn't which is really common like I do that a lot and I think most of us do you know and it's not because we're idiots it's because it's a defensive mechanism whatever it is you know

a little trauma tickle or whatever a trauma tickle you know that when it like tickles something and you're like I don't like that and if I start with that then chances are it's much easier to handle because all of a sudden I'm empowered like I can't change what they did or said I can't make them feel so I can't make them see my hurt what I can do is figure out what I want to do with the feelings that I've got everything was sort of anger or

humor or I'd be defensive or something but I was never the idea of saying that really hurt my feelings that would never happen I'd be like you're a fucking bitch, which basically means the same thing, but one's an addict and one's in recovery. Like that hurt my feelings. And so I really try and see if I can deal with the problem first. You know, can I make it right in myself? Can I help somebody else and feel better about it? Can I let go of it? Can I accept that I might have had 50% of played a role in that? And if that's the case, I can fix that, you know. If after that, I still feel like there is something that I'm struggling with

with that other person, then I can have a very grown-up conversation with them and sit them down and go, oh, this is really, it's making my life spink to clench, but I just need to talk to you about this because I think part of it is me, but I just feel a bit like that, you know, whatever it is. Maybe a switch of it as you. Maybe part of it is like. But I just think that if that's what's, sobriety has taught me which is just check in with yourself first like figure out how much you

because i think we can get so bogged down in this like current therapy like this whole like boundaries and their gaslighting you and all the rest of it and it may be true but i do think that there isn't enough emphasis on on focusing on what your part in something was yeah so it's kind of responding rather than reacting a hundred percent like let me respond if i respond that means that have to have really thought about what is going on here really. So you learn to pause basically. Learn to pause. The pause is the magic.

The pause is like, okay, before something would happen and I would react and then I wouldn't like how I felt. So then I'd pour alcohol over it to try and like extinguish it. And then you'll just get stuck in this kind of cycle of reacting, you know, and combusting. And they do too because like the reality. This makes me sound like such a fucking smug-wanker. It's really off-brand.

But like, sometimes there's no way this is going to come out in a way that is going to endure me to people. I'm just going to say it. Just accept. But like being sober in a world where people aren't sober can be really fucking difficult. Like, I don't mean to be cunty about it, sorry for the C word. But, like, there are times when I really have to dig deep and sort of give people a lot. more benefit of the doubt than I'd like to. I find when I go on Instagram, when I go on social media,

it's not inherently a very well place. It's not a very emotionally well place. And there are no boundaries. And people can say what they want. And I find that quite, I'm going to use this word triggering. And you're going to use that word. Yeah. And but I have to own that response, right?

And just step away from it. Like I can't change what social. reader is. Yeah, because I saw somebody say this the other day, say it's not triggering. Like triggering is a quite specific PTSD word, but it's actually uncomfortable. So if we replace, I find that uncomfortable instead. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, okay, that's what it is. Yeah.

Okay. So I find that uncomfortable. And how do you, given that it is your job literally at to, you know, as you are a creator as well as a writer, how do you stay emotionally sober while navigating social media? Well, listen, the money help. I'm only half joking. I think, I mean, I've been doing it for a really long time. Like, I have been doing this since 2014. So we're doing 12 years of me kind of publicly,

slightly, you know, embarrassingly trying to carve out some sort of career that didn't even really exist when I started. Like influencing or content creation wasn't a thing. But I'd always had this, and I think you're probably the same, this drive to communicate in some way. Whether that was, I couldn't shut up at school or, you know, I wrote diaries or wrote poems as a kid.

I always wanted to create something. It wasn't very good, but it was, I mean, I was relentless in my pursuit of it. And so I kind of have been doing it a long time. And I think that, again, you know, sobriety really helps me with that because what somebody thinks of me is none of my business. And I do find that it is a lot better than it used to be. Like there was a time when, I mean, it was awful.

And creators would bash other creators. And I remember one time where somebody jumped on the end, I mean, I made a bad joke. It didn't go down well, I'll admit it. It was awful. Great moment. I would probably would have been cancelled if it was now. But it was thoughtless and I was tired and I wasn't being, you know, anyway, she really didn't like it spent three weeks calling me all the names under the sun.

Like that doesn't happen really anymore. And also I think that from my point of view, I've just got much better at knowing what goes out and what doesn't. It's become quite instinctive. And I think like anybody who's used to being public, you just get better at it. And so there's less, I think I give people less of a reason to hate me. I mean, some people still do. That's fine. Like, you know, thank God.

I always say, thank God for that horrible site that we shan't mention, the one where they all go on anonymously. Yeah, let's, sorry. I always say, let's mention it. I always say, thank God for that site because it keeps them off the streets. Right. Like, for me, there was a time when they were in your DMs and in your comments and all of that. And like, now I'm like, let's, don't shut that down because they're going to go somewhere.

Really? So do you get a lot of. Is there a lot of tattling? I have no idea. I don't look anymore. Okay, well that's a long time. It's a long time since I've looked. I did.

I used to look. And I was fairly resilient with it, but it just took a lot of energy to stay resilient that I didn't really need to give, to give out in that direction. So I just leave it. And I know it goes on and I don't have, everybody's entitled to their opinion. I'm just grateful they don't put it in my DMs. Okay.

You know, and so I think you just, you do get better, but there are definitely times when I feel really uncomfortable with what's something that's been said or something that somebody's written or said about me. But, you know, I just really go to that point of like, what can I control? You know, I've got it tattooed on my arm, people, places and things, because those are the things I cannot control. And so when something makes, you know, somebody says something, I'm like, people places and things, babe.

people, places and things. Move the fuck on. What she thinks of you is none of your business. And that's kind of what I've, and also I've sort of come to the point of where it doesn't, just because somebody said it doesn't make it true, like it doesn't

affect me. Like it doesn't stop me getting work. It doesn't stop me doing, building a following. It doesn't stop me launching new projects. Like, it just is there. Tell me, or tell everyone listening, there is someone listening right now and they are struggling

with alcohol or drugs or any of anything anything if there is someone listening who does keep finding themselves in crack dens in south london or any part of the country in those long socks that you run marathons in compression socks compression socks if no if anyone is in trouble and thinks they're in trouble with booze and doesn't know what to do like that jumping off point right which is that I know I shouldn't drink, but I don't know how to stop drinking. If that phrase chimes with you at home, don't worry, babes, you're in the right place.

Yes, we've got you. Kat, what would you say to that person? Well, I would say you're probably an alcoholic. I mean, not this for me to take your inventory, but if you're coming to me and asking for my advice, I'd say you're probably an alcoholic and you'd benefit from some recovery. And I know you won't like that. Like, that's the reality of it.

You know, and I think if you've got a voice in your head saying, drinking too much, then you are drinking too much. Because people who drink, like, moderately don't have a voice in their head. They just don't. Did you ever have that thing where I remember, I remember getting quite messer about it and being like, I just think, Brianie, you're just, you're just being too hard on yourself. Yeah. Like, and then, and then you think, maybe if you were just a bit easier on yourself, then the drinking wouldn't be so problematic. That addict inside you is like, I mean, I've never, it's like, it's like, to. Terminator, you know, I can turn into anything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, shape. Shape, shift. That's what it is. And, like, one minute's just like, babe, you're just being too hard. The next minute, it's like, you are a fucking piece of shit. You know, and you're like, whoa. Yeah, exactly. It's like whiplash.

Yeah. But I honestly, I mean, I can only sort of talk about how I got it done, how I got sobriety done, or say it like it's a done deal. You know, how I got sober, which was through the 12-step program in AA, and, you know, I would say don't let the shame get in the way of sobriety because the amount, do you know, do you get this? I don't know, but obviously you've been quite open. I've been quite open about it.

I get a lot of people, my DMs going. I'm really struggling. I don't know what to do. And I'm like, well, you know, here's an online meeting. I can go to that with you. It's the only way I know how to tell you because that's the anyway I did it. And they go, I can't go to a local meeting because I might see somebody I know. Yeah.

And I'll be so. And I'm like, first of all, she's at the meeting, but also, I love how concerned you are about the embarrassment and shame of being in an AA meeting. But that time where you were like puking on somebody's shoes while like you'd lost your knickers and you can't remember where you put, you know, your husband. Yeah. That doesn't bother you. Yeah. But like being in recovery, that's really shameful. So like try and get over that.

Um, but, you know, even if you're not willing to accept that you're an alcoholic, I can promise you, whoever you are, your life without alcohol will be infinitely better. Like I had no idea how much better my life would be. Not because it suddenly went, but because I felt for the first time in my entire life,

like I understood myself, I was going to say like I belonged. I still don't always feel like I belong, but I understand where that comes from and I know how to handle that now. I can't think now of one thing alcohol gave me. No. Like, honestly.

How long has it been now, Cap? So I was four years in November. Well done. Thanks, babe. Yeah, and I'm very lucky I didn't have touchwood relapse. I haven't relapsed. I know that that is a lot of people's experience. And I thought, you know, and I just think whatever it takes,

but yeah, four years. And it is remarkable how. quickly your life turns around. Somebody said to me once when I got sober, they said, if you get sober, everyone around you will get, if you get well, everyone around you'll get well in two years. And I remember thinking,

what? I don't even really understand that. And it was right. It was right. It was like, I looked around and I was like, oh, all of a sudden that person's not winding me up anymore. I don't hate that person anymore. And I thought at the time, they meant that they would change.

Yeah. And the reality was, I had changed. Yeah. And that had made people, places and things easier. Yeah. But yeah, I think there's nothing more devastating than to be in the grips of any kind of addiction. You know, it eats you from the inside out.

And even if you think you're managing it, you're not. Like, if you think you're functioning, that's great. But try actually living sober. Oh, it's such a relief, isn't it? I say, I do agree. I'm like, go to a meeting, keep an open mind, and just know that your life is not ending. It's just beginning.

Yeah, don't worry about the God word. That's the one thing I try, like, that's the one thing that when I speak to people and they go, how did you do? I go, I go, yeah, but it's all about God. And I'm like, okay, well, just replace God with universe or, you know, or just ignore it for now, just see how it goes. Yeah, I also think that sometimes, you know, you get to a point where it's like, listen, do you want to get sober and sort your life out? Or do you want to die on a hill over a three-letter word?

Yeah, just get out of your own way. Why don't you just do that? But there are heaps of ways to get sober. Yeah, there are. I just think for me it's like the power of being able to have this conversation with you, Kat, because, you know, 10 years ago, I mean, I never heard women having these conversations. You know, maybe I was purposely not. Especially mothers.

Yeah. You know, and I think that's a real thing as well. Like I have some horrible war stories. You know, I'll share it. I actually put it in the book, but my publishers made me take it out. so I sort of have this I mean the addict isn't completely gone I do have this like defiant

I'm just going to share it every time I speak about it you know and it is one of those things I share because I think as a mum these things happen if you're a drinker and I remember my youngest was six months old and my eldest was maybe three or something a friend came over Jimmy was on tour we were drinking drinking drinking we didn't have any cocaine

because that was at the time my way of managing. That was your boundary. That was how I managed it. I figured, right, the problem isn't alcohol. The problem's blacking out. Therefore, I'll take cocaine and I'll solve that problem. And I have to be honest, like it worked. It did do the job.

I wouldn't recommend taking Class A drugs to manage an alcohol addiction, but here we are. Anyway, we didn't have that, so I got blackout drunk. And went to bed, woke up at whatever time in the morning because the little one was crying. And I went into her room and she wasn't in her cot. Like, it is not easy for me to say these words. Like, I don't want anybody to think that I'm being flippant about this.

But I'm saying it because it was something that I was on my own. Like, if I'd never, I could have gone my whole life without mentioning this. And there will be women watching this who have done things that could go their whole life without having to breathe a word of the things that they've done. But if you shine a light on it, those are the things you have to shine a light on. And I found she was on the spare bed in the middle, fully swaddled. Oh God, I think I'd probably like maybe nursed her. I can only imagine.

No wonder she slept till like six. And she was fine, but for the grace of God. And this is that when I was talking about being on that knife edge. Like I got away with that. I got away with that. But here's what could have happened. She could have fallen off that bed. I would have had to rush her to hospital at six in the morning, still drunk.

Social services would definitely have been called. I might have lost my kids. I might not have done, but I certainly would have been under social services care for many, many years to come. And I didn't have to tell anybody about that. But that's the kind of secret side of drinking, especially if you're a new mom, especially if you're a new mum as well. like that can be the perfect breeding ground for addiction because you're often on your own in the house you're often you know it's really exhausting you are depleted you can feel unsupported motherhood for me was the thing that ramped it up from oh I'm a party girl to full blown addiction um because it it made me question every single part of my being I grew up thinking that if you prepared and read the books and did the work you'd be successful at everything and being successful at everything was what was important because that was what made me lovable. I didn't come from a generation where parents were like,

snuggly, snuggly, I love you. You can be anything you want in the world. I mean, they were great and I loved them. It was very boomer. You know, like I got a lot of attention when I got an A or a scholarship or a gold medal in between. Not so much. And so success and achievement for me was very important.

And so when I became a mum and it very quickly transpired that reading the books and deciding that you were going to be a really good mum, wasn't enough. That shook me to the core. Like I had no idea how to do it. I also had a very healthy dose of postnatal depression. My breastfeeding experience was horrific. And it was a combination of all of these things

that just sent me into a complete spiral. And yet I couldn't have told, I would have told you I was fine. Because I would have said to myself all the time, well, I've got a new mom. No, I haven't got a new mum. Still got the same mum. I am a new mum and I've got a baby and she doesn't sleep and I'm tired and I'm exhausted

and my husband's away and has been for six months. And I'm on my own and I'm far away from it. So of course I feel awful. Of course I'm fine. And I absolutely was not fine. And, you know, that is the most shameful story. That's the most shameful war story I've got. But I have learned to forgive my, I have forgiven.

I have forgiven myself for that because I was great. I was very lucky that it didn't have the consequences it could have done. But it was also, that was the moment I went to my first meeting. And that was when my youngest was six months. So that was nine years ago. So sometime before you finally stopped.

And to be fair, I did go to this meeting. Obviously, I'm not feeling great. Next day, I'm deeply hung over, full of self-loathing and shame. things are not, my husband hates me. And I walk into this AA meeting and you'll know this really weird.

It was just one other guy there. Nobody else. Like, nobody did the share, nobody turned up to do tea or whatever, like nobody else came. And I'm sure this guy was lovely,

but he didn't look lovely. He looked really scary. And it wasn't great. So I sort of walked out and went, I'm never doing that again. And it was only, you know, four and a bit years ago that I thought,

I shall give it another shot, and thank God I did. But yeah, when you're a mum, there are these enormously unreasonable, high expectations put on you in terms of what success as a mum looks like. I'm not saying that it, you know, it was an unreasonable expectation that you should forget where you put your baby.

Like that, I appreciate that that fell below anybody's bar of what counts. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. No, but it's true, like it is. I mean, listen. That falls below the bar on anybody's scale. I've got a scale. I have similar war stories and I'm really grateful to you for sharing that because there will be someone listening at home who has just realized that she's not the worst person in the world.

Yeah. She's just another person who has a problem with alcohol. Yeah. And there is a way forward and I'm incredibly grateful for you coming and sharing that solution to this problem because there is. There is a way forward and there is a life beyond it and you do not have. have to live in this shame. No. And I've seen people who like I've heard there's a guy I know through recovery who does the most incredible share and he's a psychotherapist hugely intelligent

talks about his sobriety. He's been sober for 20 odd years and in every time he tells his story he always goes but you know I used to be homeless and mug women and I think there is nobody that can't get sober.

Like it's not easy for everybody. It's not easy for anybody, but, you know, when you think about the transformative power of sobriety of giving up booze, you know, it is phenomenal. And it is there. It's just if the only thing holding you back is shame, embarrassment, worry, like that is not worth it. It's not worth it to stay out of getting,

to stay away from the help that you can get. whatever that looks like it doesn't have to be a it can be anything you know there's loads of smart recovery there's all sorts of things we'll put we'll put a load of links in the show notes for people where they can get help yeah but it's

it's never going to make your life worse never never like it just is like that's the reaction if you give it booze your life's never going to get worse no one died giving up alcohol nobody nobody no one died not drinking alcohol. That's what I would like. And do you know what? I'll end on this. This,

that was something that at times in my early sobriety was the only thing that kept me going was not drinking alcohol is not going to kill you briny. So just get the fuck on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just get it done. And here I am, nearly nine years later. Here you are. Four and a bit. A half years later. And you can do it do. Kat Sims. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on The Life of Briney. I just want to thank Kat for bringing humour to such a serious subject and showing us that there is life on the other side. And if you're in this space right now,

I promise you things do get better. Let me know your thoughts over on Instagram at at Life of Briny Pod. I want to hear about the stories you've been carrying around in silence and how you're starting to put some of that weight down. Kat will be back on Friday for our special bonus episode, The Life of You, where she'll be talking about the things that keep her grounded when life, motherhood and her own brain all feel too loud. In the meantime, don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate,

rave about us to your friends, because it really does help. But most of all, keep being you. I'll see you next time.