The Life Of Bryony - Do You Feel Excluded from the Gym? How Javeno McLean Is Redefining Fitness

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

MY GUEST THIS WEEK: JAVENO MCLEAN   This week, I’m joined by Javeno McLean—personal trainer, gym owner, and one-man revolution in how we think about movement. Javeno went viral for helping people with disabilities and terminal illness rediscover the joy of exercise. But behind the social media clips is a story of care, community, and the radical power of treating people as equals. Whether you’re gym-curious, gym-phobic, or just need a reminder that your limits don’t define you—this episode is for you. BOOKS DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE   📚 You Are Not Your Limits by Javeno McLean A powerful, heart-filled guide to rethinking movement and reconnecting with your strength, no matter your starting point. LET’S STAY IN TOUCH   🗣 Got something to share? Text or send a voice note on 07796657512—just start your message with LOB.   💬 Use the WhatsApp shortcut: https://wa.me/447796657512?text=LOB   📧 Prefer email? Drop me a line at [e-mail]   If you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone who might find Javeno’s wisdom helpful—it really makes a difference! Bryony xx   CREDITS 🎙 Presenter: Bryony Gordon 🎙 Guest: Javeno McLean 🎧 Content Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan 🎥 Audio & Video Editor: Luke Shelley 📢 Executive Producer: Mike Wooller A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Life of Bryony, the podcast where we try to make you feel less alone. This week, have you ever felt like exercise isn't for you? Do you feel excluded from the gym, or is it working out is for other people? Well, today's incredible guest, Giovino McLean, is here to tell you that you have just as much right to take up space in the gym as anyone else. Giovino is a personal trainer from Manchester who went viral for helping people with disabilities and terminal illness rediscover the joy of movement. But behind the social media clips is something much deeper. A story about community, belief and the magic that happens when we treat people as equals. I've gone through two decades of training disabled people and

I've realized care and love is more... if somebody cares for you and loves you that will last forever. And muscles can go. My conversation with Jovino McLean, coming up right after this. If you like this episode, we think you'll love this. I'm Sarah Vine. And I am Peter Hitchens. And this is Alas, Vine and Hitchens asking all the big questions this week.

Universities and... Did we win the war? Yes. Do please join us wherever you get to your podcasts. Thank you. He's the man that puts the personal into personal trainer. I thought of that. I spent a long time thinking that. It's Javido McLean. Hello. Hello. Thank you for coming. I would, I would come to you wherever you are in the world. I love this set as well. I love the colours of this place. I love the colours. If you're listening, you're wearing like a lime green jumper, which is just brightness emanates.

I wore it for you and I told me wife that you'd like it. So when you see her, tell her that I was right. So we're now asking everyone to talk about an object that they would bring to the life of Bryony Set that would make them feel at home. It can be anything. It could also be a concept. It could be a person. What would you have here right now that would make you feel really relaxed and at home? Easy question.

But I don't think I'm weird, by the way, about my answers. Firstly, my wife. I'm a big guy, but I'm a cuddler. I love a good cuddle. And my wife is the most homely thing, person that I could have. That's my home, that's my heart. So even at nighttime, you'd think she's the man because I'm cuddled up to on the sofa watching TV, but my wife makes me feel at home. A barbell. A barbell, okay. I love me a barbell. But a barbell just represents

so much of my life, do you know what I mean? So I think there's meaning behind the barbell. It's not just a big piece of metal that you lift. For me, something that I've been experimenting with in my fitness journey since I was nine, 10 years old. Really? Yeah. So when I started training very early, so when I see a barbell, I look at nearly 30 years of me just trying to evolve physically and emotionally as an athlete, as a man, and now as a dad and a business owner. So it's quite symbolic, if you know what I mean. Let's talk about you. You were my favourite kind of person, which is someone who brings exercise to everyone. The fitness, wellbeing space can feel pretty lacking in inclusivity at times. Do you think?

Of course, 100% And there's a million podcasts out there where the gym bros will tell you how to shave minutes off your marathon time, how to lift heavier, how to lift smarter, all this sort of stuff about being the strongest, the fastest, the best. And it can feel quite kind of isolating if you are not in that kind of group. And what you do so brilliantly is you bring exercise to those minority groups who aren't often thought about. So you have this incredible fitness center in Manchester and you are all about training people that don't usually get trained in gyms. It's a place and I really love it.

I'm offering you when you come to Manchester, come and see it. I'd love to. Cause it's so, I love talking about my work and the stuff that I do, but when you see it with your own eyes, it's a different kettle of fish. The fitness world and the health world, let's be honest, it's full of lies. And it's the gym world and the fitness world can be so intimidating. And I wanted to create a narrative, a safe space for people. And a lot of people get ignored, get belittled, get thrown over there and covered up. You should be able to, I want to take that cover off and bring them people

to the spotlight. And I've been training disabled people and disadvantaged people free of charges and never took a penny off them for 23 years. And it's not something that I broadcast a lot. To me, it's the message and the importance. And at the end of the day, it's not something that I broadcast a lot. To me it's the message and the importance and at the end of the day it's life. I've gone through two decades of training disabled people and I've realized care and love is more, if somebody cares for you and loves you, that will last forever.

Muscles can go. I wanted to be different, I didn't wanna be the typical PT with me top off flexing me muscles. I want it to be different, I didn't want to be the typical PT with me top off flexing my muscles. I'm not trying to sell sex. I'm trying to sell real inspiration and real human struggle and people overcoming. Because that's something that connects us all.

So whether someone's disabled or able bodied, a cancer survivor, stroke survivor, Down syndrome, whatever they're going through, we all go through the same human struggle. And I think it's just bringing humans together. You've been doing this for, as you say, 23 years. You know, you've gone viral. What you do is so infectious and so genuine and so heartfelt that it has, I mean, you're like, you've got trillions of followers on TikTok, trillions of followers on Instagram, who are just taken in by the

incredible Reels videos. I say videos, it makes me sound 800 years old. Your VHS tapes that you put up, upload onto the social media. Like, I was watching this morning, this Reel you did with a woman who had recovered from a stroke. It was her doing her first burpee since recovering from a stroke. It was just everything. It was in that moment watching it, I just thought this is capturing the brilliance of exercise and movement. It's not about how it makes you look. It's about how it makes you goddamn feel. 100%. We've lost that a little bit as a society. I don't know whether I'm getting just a bit

old and miserable. But I don't know where we've gone wrong as a society where people have lost the ability to care. Yeah. People get that. How many times have you spoken to somebody who just says how negative social media is and how many, how much hate there is out there. And I think I asked even to this day, I've said it hundreds of times. I don't get it. I don't get why my work has gone so global. I don't get it because I've not created a magic potion for cancer.

I'm not created a magic new piece of special equipment. That's going to help somebody walk again all I'm doing is seeing an individual for who they are pushing them treating them normal and Refusing to let them not see the magic and the beauty that they've got within themselves I'm not trying to be a hero. I've said it all the time. I say all the time to people I know people are they say and I and I'm grateful They call me a hero and things like that and I go I'm not trying to be a hero I just want people to kind of be the hero within themselves

and that's all I'm doing is showcasing that our unbreakable human spirit that's what my books about just how unbreakable the human spirit is when you're watching people overcoming struggles I'm talking real struggles when a woman's got a terminal illness and she said I'll see you on Monday Jay when a person knows that they ain't never going to walk again because of a certain injury or illness or disability, but they say, Jay, I'm going to give it a go. How can you not watch that and see that and go, whether you're able-bodied, whether you're black or white, whether you're in America or New York, whether you're in that's the same place, by the way, Australia, Jamaica, no

matter where you are or who you are as a human, how can you not watch that and go, firstly, you're going to smile and then you're going to go, I can do more as a person. I can do more and be better because I'm seeing the most unbreakable examples of the human spirit. Sorry, you're going to make me cry. Let it out, girl, come on. We are doing this interview the day after I ran the London Marathon in my pants and I was trying to display that thing and just having, I think, seen as well, like so many people doing hard things to push themselves. You know, when you see someone dressed up as a rhino, you know pushing themselves

26.2 miles to try you know, just you know What was someone with a washing machine on the back or someone on crutches, you know Just to show that actually we are capable of so much more than we think so much more So I think you said just then you said you've not created a magic potion for cancer or terminal illness But actually what you do is magic. It is magic because for so many of us, we think life-limiting illness, disability is the end. And what you do is go, nope, it's just the beginning of something different, you know, or it's just a different, you know, it doesn't need to limit you. And your book is called You Are Not Your Limits. It is just such a fantastic,

inspiring read. And if there's anyone listening or watching who does feel limited when it comes to movement, to exercising and wishes they could do it, but feels held back for whatever reason. You know, there might be people who are feeling held back because they think they're too large or because they have an illness. You are the man for them and this is the book for you. Can I just ask you quickly, there's a quote on the back of it from Michelle Pfeiffer. Arshell. Arshell.

Arshell. How did you get a quote from Arsheiffer. Arshel. Yeah. Arshel. Arshel. How did you get a quote from Arshel? Arshel. Do you know what? Should I give you the real answer or the other? I want the real answer.

The real answer is I'm so lucky. Over the last however many years, I've got a lot of special people like Michelle who supported me. I'm not boastful person even though I'm loud and I'm daft and I'm big and my energy is what it is. I don't boast and I'll never go on my social media and put, oh Michelle five has messaged me. I did ring my mum and go, look he's messaged me. It's really her, look.

Blue team and everything. But yeah, she's a really good supporter of my work and I'm very grateful that she supports me along with so many other people. I don't know whether she wants to come to J7 or not. That's what she said. Really? I'm looking at it going. She's got a five-up.

She wants to come to my little gym. So let's talk about your story. So you started off playing professional cricket? I was playing cricket. Yeah, I was playing high level cricket and cricket taught me everything. Cricket was my first love. Was it my true love? I don't know. Was it? No, it was my first love. It was everything I've ever wanted to do was play cricket. I was born in Jamaica. Cricket is our national sport and all since I was six,. I was born in Jamaica, cricket's our national sport and since I was six all I wanted to do was play cricket. I fell out of love with cricket at the same time I realised in a funny way, my first love brought me to my true love. My true love is what I'm doing

now. My true love is again without not everyone people think I'm being boastful. I believe I was put here to do this because I've fingers crossed I've never failed B. And what I mean by that is you give me a human who's going through struggle. The worst kind of human struggle. Not your typical British struggle. I can't afford my Sky television. I can't afford a new pair of trainers. They're not real problems. You know what I mean? So when I come across humans who are going through real struggle, disabled and disadvantaged people, I don't run away. A lot of people in society and in this country around the world will see somebody with a severe illness

or going through a really bad situation and they want to put their hands up and run away. I've always run to it because I've always felt that I'm genuine with my energy and my care. And I've always gone, okay, give with my energy and my care and I've always gone, okay, give me 30 minutes. That's what I always say to myself. Give me 30 minutes. I met somebody two weeks ago, came in the gym, really a degenerative illness that she's going to get worse. She may not be here in six years. And I know how horrible that is when you say it out loud, but my first thing thing is okay I'm gonna see you on Monday give me 30 minutes I bet you I can put a smile on your face to make you forget the pain that you're in

and how limited your life is I bet you I can make you smile I'll do anything and I've never failed and I don't want people to do everything I'm being boastful like that I just see the magic in people when they don't see it in themselves. You don't sound like you're being boastful at all. Thank you. You it's really important that when you do work like this, that you were able to talk about it and shout loud about it. Because my hope is that there will be people who listen to this podcast. And they at the end of it, they think I'm going to go

and try and do something that I don't think I could do. And it's really amazing. so you shout loud and proud we've got you here because we want to hear about the amazing stuff that you're doing. So cricket didn't turn out quite as you wanted it to but it did introduce you to the concept of helping people be included in sport who felt excluded from it. Yeah. Well, I started way before. So when I was 16, I was actually, I wasn't obviously a top level cricket. I was doing a lot of, I was playing cricket, but I was doing a lot of coaching. And this is what I mean by, you know, before when I said, I think it in a weird way brought me to my first love. This started for me when I was 16, I was doing a coaching session in a weird way brought me to my first love. This started for me when I was 16,

I was doing a coaching session in a park in Manchester. And I was doing it was about 12 lads I was doing a coaching session for and there was this family, an Asian family that was over across the other side of the field. Couldn't take my eyes off this family because there was never forget this day and every time I tell this story, it gets me emotional, but I never forget it. I never get bored of saying it. Beautiful day, sunny.

Birds was chirping, ice cream vans and this family over there were having the greatest time. Like we was, I was coaching these lads. There was this gentleman in a wheelchair called Ishmael. Rest in peace, he's passed away. And the only way I can describe it is he had a look of, I need. And what I mean by that is he had a look of I need I need something. You know when you watch Wimbledon you see tennis and you watch the crowd and every time the ball gets hit they're following the ball. He was doing that and

he said I'm looking at him and he's just going I need I what is something. Long story short I've gone over and I said this is what we're gonna do and I rolled him over to the middle of the grass got my lads over got the family over and I rolled Ishmael through the middle of the grass and I give him a give him a cricket bat and I said you're going to bat, everyone's going to bowl at you but the way we're going to do it is if you swing and miss nothing happens. If you hit the ball everyone does one press up or one burpee. The two albums we had the greatest game and this is where it's not about race or ability. This man didn't speak no English. His wife didn't speak no

English. She gave me a hug that touched every molecule in my body. She didn't let me go. She's only a small woman, but I knew exactly what she meant with that hug. Ishmael wasn't born disabled, but he said it was the first time in nearly 15 years that he's felt alive. In that moment, I knew, I didn't know why it went over but I knew I don't know whether I'm ever It's it's it was it's God's work or I don't know I don't know why I Knew that's what I was meant to do and that's why it was my true love So cricket even though it was my first love in a weird way brought me to my true love If I wasn't coaching cricket that day, I would have never met Ishmael and from that day after I did that with Ishmael

I'm a weirdo. I'd be driving, I'd be going around Manchester doing, at the time I was working for Manchester council and anytime I seen somebody disabled, I felt was getting treated slightly disrespectfully or belittled or not really given the chance to be normal and always intervene even if it was nothing to do with me. I really am interested about that. Like did it when you see when you saw people being excluded disabled people being excluded or belittled or left out. Did that feel like a kind of pain inside to see? Did it?

Yeah. Humanity. I love training and sport. I've always done done and it's just it's the greatest feeling. Now you see all this think how unfair is it that you can't experience it because of other things why I don't because I cause what I'm one thing that I always thought was normal until parents started telling me I've never seen a child's wheelchair you know every time I train somebody I did something with a person who was in the wheelchair, I'm looking at the individual, what can we do? Think, I don't care about what you can't do,

what can we do? Think about this, if you was in the gym with me now, I would push you to your limits. It's the same with somebody in a wheelchair who are disabled, but what society does, they wrap them in cotton wool and kind of go, no, it's not treating somebody normal. So treating somebody normal so treating somebody normal is giving them the same experiences as I would everybody else and when you actually

understand that and it's the simplest form it's like this is what the books about normality how the smallest acts of inclusion can change someone's life. And did we win the war? Yes. Do please join us wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. If you're feeling inspired by what you've heard so far, let's make this a regular thing. Hit follow so you never miss an episode of The Life of Brianne. never miss an episode of the life of Brian. That thing you just said, like, I don't care what you can't do. What can you do? Yeah.

That is such an incredible reframe. I think for everyone listening on their day to day life, because we think so often, don't we, about what we can't do. I can't do this, I can't do that. Let's not focus on that because you can, by focusing on what you can do, and it may not be something big, and that doesn't bloody matter, do you know what I mean?

But the more that you focus on what you can do, the more you can do. Course, course, it's positivity, it's energy, And I've learned so much from my people, my honest to God, my the people, they've taught me how to boomerang, which is very, very important part of my day. What's boomeranging? I do it with my wife. I do it with my kids. Boomerang is this right now. Okay, I'm taking it by the way, just so everyone knows by the list, anyone listening, we've both taken our shoes on. Socks on I've got on socks on whatever. But we're

very comfortable. Right. So boomerang boomerang and is this well and I'll give you an example of boomerang and this happens in the offices all the time. Beth you've got a wonderful dress on you look great yeah happy vector. Oh no it's old it's old this. Yeah. Oh I might say B your hair looks gorgeous today. Oh no I've not even washed it. No I haven't washed it. So what I do so that's what people get a nice comment something beautiful said instead of absorbing that beauty absorbing that someone said that your hair looks good or your dress they throw it back so you know what I do I throw it back and I will go back and forth until you accept it so with a lot

of my in my early days if I train somebody in a wheelchair I say something like oh mate you're so strong oh yeah I'm not that strong compared to other people. No, no, no, you're really strong. Yeah, but obviously I'm disabled so I can't no, no, no, you and I will keep on going until you just say yes Jay. Oh, thank you. Don't bring around positivity back. Don't bring around love or care back. If I give you some love or care, absorb it, take it and then use that to go onto something else and disable people, disadvantage people because of the way the world is and the way their lives have been. A lot of people, not all of them, a lot of people, they just boomerang. You tell them that they're beautiful or strong,

they boomerang it. You're inspirational, they boomerang it, you're inspirational they boomerang it, you're beautiful you're gorgeous they boomerang it so me I will sit there for five minutes and I will keep on throwing it at you until you just go, you ain't going away this guy, okay I'm beautiful I'm strong and they take it in and I think that's such an important message for not just disabled or disadvantaged people, everyone even my wife does it now and I have to, I will sit there for five minutes. But I say, baby, look gorgeous. Oh yeah. It's all this dress is from H and M six years ago. No, no, no. The dress is gorgeous. She put on a dress the other day and she looked fit. And I told her, Oh no, it's old. It's a bit,

it's a bit tight. This no, no, you look gorgeous. You look beautiful, babe. Yeah. But my hair's not done. You look beautiful. Just take it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And it happened if you listen in offices in just establishments around the world, people boom around positivity and care and I try my best to put a stamp to that. I think that's a really good thing for anyone listening or watching to go just really watch your language. When someone says something nice to you, don't throw it back at them. Don't boomerang at your back. Take it, absorb it and just say thanks. Yeah. Please give them a compliment back.

Of course. And what I realised is like I turned 14 January. Happy birthday. Welcome to the best decade. It's not. It's not. I'm not happy about it. We'll do that in another podcast. I'm not happy about it. No, last week I sneezed, I farted and I done my backing at the same time. As I get older, I realized that words can kill. Words can kill, but words can also, if you use them in the right way, it can breathe life into a person in a situation. So I take words very, very seriously, especially with my work. So you have trained every, you know, all manner of people.

Yeah. I wondered, and I really want to, I just think you're going to have so much wisdom to this because I reckon people that have been through dark, difficult time are actually the best people for serious challenges in the gym or whatever. If you have, like Ishmael was, you've been in an accident, you know what I mean, and your life has been completely changed, you know, you suddenly can't use your legs anymore. Or, you know, if you're you've been diagnosed with cancer or, you know, there's all sorts of challenges that you've had to face. It's like, you can go into the gym and do this, and do this thing.

Tell me what the strengths that you see in the people that you try and everything? My work is a weird one. I don't ever want people to think that, like I said, not I mean both, but that I'm putting down with my emotions. I am the way I am because I understand gratitude. My energy is crazy, but every single day I'm reminded. Of how grateful we are just to be who we are. The small, I'm talking everything, I'm talking me and you sat here now. The fact that I can keep getting my leg over there.

The fact that I can scratch my head. I'm reminded every day of the most beautiful things that life has to offer, which is just the ability to be me, right? When I'm around people every day who have been given really crappy cars in life, don't moan about it. They're going, I speak to people every day that remind me my life is fantastic. They don't moan about it. They just crack on. It's real strength. Like this is the thing. I'm not impressed by my physical strength. I was an athlete, cool. I went into powerlifting after I finished cricket. I did great, I qualified for Team GP, won a gold medal in the deadlift in the

bench press. I'm proud of myself but like I said, I'm not impressed with myself because real strength isn't in physicality. Not about how much I can bench press or deadlift. Real strength is, there's over when people are fighting battles that you can't see, a real strength is, yes last week there was a young girl who came in, she's been diagnosed with something, it just took everything from her man, it took her smile, it took her ability to move, they think it may be over for her in the next eight to nine years. So as I'm dealing with this now and I'm trying to process, okay, I've got all these internal feelings, I want

to cry, but I can't show her pain. Okay, I'm not going to show no emotion because on the outside I've got to be this guy to make sure she's okay. And then in the blink of an eye, she confronts me. I'm a 40 year old ex-athlete strong guy as I'm breaking down inside that's fake strength because I'm actually real strength is showing people if you're going through some stuff. Real strength is not being afraid of expressing what you're going through and I'm holding it in. She said it's all good but if I've got nine years I'm gonna live the best nine years of my life and I'm gonna achieve things. I've already made a bucket list Jay, and I want

to tick them all off. If that's not the greatest strength in the world, if that kind of strength is more impressive than anything I could do in the gym and I'm around things like that daily. So my energy is the way it is because I know how blessed we are just to be us. Do you know what I mean? And I'm hoping this is in my book, the stories of just real human life experiences. And yes, it's about getting active, but it's also about honesty. And it's about showcasing what we can do as humans. Sometimes we forget. Just like you said before with the marathon, your body goes, oh, you know what?

I'm not going to show you pain until you finish. That's just the tip of the iceberg. We've got, we're amongst giants. This little girl to me, she showed me the strength of 10 giants and one day I wish I can have that strength. How important do you think connection and community is in terms ofbeing. So how does community function like a form of medicine? Because you talk about this. You know, it's the most connection is the most important thing. The minute I walked in there, I've connected with you. If you can't have it's like a domino effect. Imagine you got all your dominoes, the first domino falls wrong, then ones don't fall into place.

I always look at everything as a domino effect. And a lot of the times my first one is connection. I connect with somebody and that domino falls good. All the other ones fall into place. Connection, trust and belief. Can you connect with somebody so much? They go. I trust you to pick me up out of my wheelchair. I trust you to keep me safe and I'm yours Jay. Let's create something amazing. I might, and I do some mad things with my guys. They have to trust me, but before trust me, trusting me, they have to fully connect with me. Cause this is not your typical gym stuff. This is not just about booties and six packspacks and the typical abs and glutes. These are people who are going through real human struggle.

About life. It's about life and prolonging life. It's about, do you know what? Do you know what it is about? I was just thinking your gym it's not, I mean it is about body because it's about allowing people to do it but what it's really about is soul. It's about working mean it is about body because it's about allowing people to do it but what it's really about is soul. It's about working out your soul right? Of course it is. You have to connection is something that you have to be patient with.

Connection is something that you can't force and you can only do it if you're genuine man. And this is you know what in my time doing this be you can't fake it. I know like everyone in their jobs will come across people who is faking it. With my stuff I can't fake it. It's people who is faking it with my stuff. I can't fake it's impossible to fake purely because it won't work if I'm pretending to like somebody or pretending to care. You'll be exposed very very quickly. Because like I said, it's an end the gym world is full of people faking because let's be real. If I was training Jonathan in the gym now and he's able bodied. I just want his dog. Yes mate you look brilliant. You're so strong.

He is strong. He does a lot of crossfit. He looks brilliant. I saw him saying I could generally dislike him. Yeah. Because I want his money, I could fake the relationship. How important is it to demystify the fitness industry and open it up? One part of me thinks people like you are out there doing amazing work, but I also see this real creep of kind of like the broification, you know, where it is all about showing off. It's not about the soul. It's literally about the surface body and look at what I've, look at my splits or look at how much I can deadlift

or look at, do you know what I mean? And it's all about surface shit. It's all about surface shit. And, you know, that's great for a lot of people, but for me, movement is about, you know, it's about as much about mental health as it is about physical health. And it's, it's been transformational for my mental health. You know, I'm an, as you know, a recovering alcoholic, depressive. I spent decades of my life suicidal and depressed. And the moment I started embracing exercise, you know, like exercise for me was always about punishing myself and making myself smaller. So I looked better. The moment I start doing it for the gains and not the losses, for the way it made my life bigger, as opposed to my waist smaller, it changed everything for me. I got sober, my life changed because of my size.

And so I really, this movement as medicine is absolutely crucial to me. How do we encourage, how do we get people who are listening and scared, you know, able-bodied people as well, because there's just as many able-bodied people out there who are scared to move. What would you say to those people and how would you encourage them to get out there and get moving? And what would you say as well to the wellbeing industry, the fitness industry about how to make gyms and fitness spaces more inclusive? When it comes to the way the gym world is in the health and fitness world, they've not been exposed yet as regards, they've not been exposed to real struggle and they don't know what really counts. Exercise exposes

what really counts in life and that's what I try to put in this book. It's about what really counts in life. So right now people may think that counts in life, that's cool. I'm not slagging anybody off, that's fine. When you're around certain people like I am, you kind of realize what really counts in life. Really, having a six pack, having a big back or booty or whatever, it's great. Is it the most important thing in the world? No. And I always say to people, be around struggle, be around people who are really struggling and it will humble you every single day. Example being one of my girls recently and this is what I talk about all of the say what really counts in life. She's been a recluse for many years because of her illness she has something really traumatic

happened to her in the wheelchair where she thought she was going to die. People were stepping over her wheelchair to save themselves. Horrible situation it's in the book I don't really want to go into it because it gets me sad. She went to the movies, you know, like for the first time in many, like in many, many years, her and her girlfriend went and watched the movie. That's so simple. How amazing is it though? So yes, that's great. That's great. Somebody who's been a recluser in the house to have the strength now to go let me be a young girl and go watch a movie. That there is such a powerful thing and I think with certain things as you get older

with the fitness world, if people just kind of, if you're not around struggle, I highly recommend be around it. I would say to my sons, be around struggle because whatever you think you're going through, if you think, especially in England, we think a bad day in England, I'm telling you is paradise elsewhere. So I always say, well, especially when it comes to inclusivity,

inclusivity is simply about normality and people don't know how to do it. Be normal. And I'll show you a great example of normality and I got slagged off of this. I'll tell you why I did it. There's a young lad that comes to my gym called Abdul Rahman. That's what I call him.

He's a footballer for Great Britain, blind striker for Team GB. When he first started coming to my gym, you see every time somebody's late into my gym, you're doing burpees or press ups. Even my wife, she gets me mad with it. She thinks because she's my wife, you're still going to do burpees or press ups even my wife she gets she gets me mad with it she thinks because she's my wife you're still gonna do burpees babe so she comes in late five burpees ten burpees she moans so everyone knows be late then if you're late you're gonna get burpees she should know not to be late she's married to you so everybody knows if you're late you're

gonna do some burpees or press ups he's coming late he did his press ups and people were, and I said, it's normality. He's watched me do that same thing to you, you in, you in, you. So why should he be any different? And he's able, he's blind, but he's very able, drop and give me them press ups. And he wouldn't have liked, he wouldn't have, if I would have done the opposite, is that treating him normal? I'm giving him a special pass because of his disability. And I think treating people normal is easier said than done.

I know it's probably hard to ask you, but do you have a favourite story that you think could be in the book? No, there's so many. There's so many and each of them are so different in their own special ways. They're just real people and this is why I think it connects people because the stories that we tell in the book, every person can connect with it. We all go through the same things as humans. We all at some point feel unattractive or not worthy. Even like I said, I always talk about my wife because she's my wife, but stunning. How many times she's talking and she's making out like, and I'm saying babe shut up you're absolutely gorgeous yeah but I need my hair everyone

gets to a point where they're kind of looking at other people's physiques clothes money houses cars job and compare we all feel unworthy sometimes we all feel not good enough and that's just part of the human struggle so the stories in the book kind of expose the topics and the feelings and the experiences, not just disabled and disadvantaged people go through, but we all go through as humans. And I think that's why it connects us all. I think I generally believe that's why my work has gone so global. It's not me. It's my energy is part of it, but it's the stories. I genuinely believe that. You said earlier on that when you see someone struggling, you go towards them.

A lot of people run away. What do you think it is about you, your background that has made you that kind of empathetic, compassionate person? I think it's about love and confidence. My main thing in my life is I'm still lucky that I got me mum and dad and every day I still want to make them happy. I'm lucky I've gotten both and every day I still want to make mummy and daddy happy. I was raised in a house full of love where my mum and dad bent over backwards for me and my brother-in-law and my family members. But when you get true love it will fill you with a confidence go fight 50 bears. And because I've had that I want as as many, I want as many other people

to experience that. And some people, because of their disability or situation, haven't received the amount of love, attention that they should have. And without blaming people, they get looked past, they don't get seen. People look over there, look over there, look over there, they don't look there. And I've always been taught to look at the person and I don't, it could, there could be a million things going around your background. It could be a fire behind you, a tsunami, Godzilla, King Kong. I'm looking at B. You know what I mean? That's what I believe in. Cause I believe in that. If you know that I'm looking at you and I've seen you, we can challenge all of the other stuff while the world's collapsing around you because

you know that I'm looking at you and you're looking at me. Guess what? After I finished looking at you B, we're going to challenge all the other stuff. And that's how I see people who are disabled, that sometimes people are looking at the world and the things that are crashing around them. And by doing that, you're actually neglecting the actual diamond that's looking at you. I'm trying my best to bring that back to humanity and I'm proud that I am slowly doing that. And what would you say to anyone listening, I hope everyone's going to go out and buy you and not your limits.

Buy me a book! Buy me a book. Buy me a book. What would you say to anyone listening who does have some sort of illness that they see as limiting or disability that they see as limiting? What would your advice be to them about going forward and living their life without their limit? You deserve just as much happiness as anybody else. It breaks my heart when people don't see that themselves. You deserve to be included and you deserve to experience beautiful things in life just

like anybody else. If you're in an environment all around people that don't make you feel normal, change the environment because once you get the right environment, guarantee that you'll flourish all around people that don't make you feel normal, change the environment. Because once you get the right environment, guarantee that you'll flourish and you'll start seeing the wonders and you'll start. When somebody gets fully empowered, no stopping him. When somebody's fully empowered, there's no stopping him. Normality is the most powerful gift and I think I've always realized with myself, the greatest gift that I can give anyone is just to show up. Just to show up and when you've got somebody who shows up for you,

it puts your confidence again through a different place and I think be around people that want to be around you and will show up for you like you will show up for them. Thank you for showing up today. I'll show up again anytime. Let's do it again. I'm going to go and give you a cuddle. Oh my God, how much do I love that man? Let me count the ways. A huge thank you to Givino for sharing his story and for reminding us that belief can be built. If you take one thing away from this episode, let it be this. You are not your diagnosis. You are not your circumstance. You are not your past. You're stronger than you think.

And if you forget that, Giovinno is always here to remind you. His book, You Are Not Your Limits, is out now. If you've loved this chat, send it to a friend who could do with some inspiration. If you like this episode, we think you'll love this. I'm Sarah Vine. And I am Peter Hitchens. And this is Alas! Violin H Hitchens asking all the big questions this week. Universities and...

Did we win the war? Yes. Do please join us wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.