The Life Of Bryony - Frankie Bridge: Ketamine Therapy Has Been Life Changing for Me

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

This week, I’m joined by Frankie Bridge – singer, author, businesswoman and long-time mental health advocate – for one of the most open, moving conversations I’ve ever had on this show. From being catapulted to fame at 12 in S Club Juniors, to global success with The Saturdays, Frankie shares the truth about breakdown, depression, and being hospitalised in her early twenties when it all became too much.​ We talk about anxiety that started in childhood, disordered eating in the girl-band years, and what it’s really like to perform while having panic attacks and feeling like a shell of yourself. Frankie explains how ketamine therapy has been life-changing for her treatment‑resistant depression, why mum guilt is still her biggest battle, and how healing her inner child has helped her finally feel more whole.​ If you’ve ever felt like a burden, or wondered why you can’t just “be grateful” for the life you have, this episode will make you feel seen, less alone, and a lot kinder towards yourself.LINKS TO SUPPORT GROUPSIf the content of this episode resonated with you today and you would like support, please consider the following charities:SamaritansCall 116 123 or visit https://www.samaritans.org/ for free, 24-hour support.MindCall 0300 102 1234 or visit https://www.mind.org.uk/need-urgent-help/WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOUGot something to share? Message us on @lifeofbryonypod on Instagram.If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need it – it really helps! Bryony xxCREDITS:Host: Bryony GordonGuest: Frankie BridgeProducer: Laura Elwood-CraigAssistant Producer: Sam RhodesStudio Manager: Sam ChisholmEditor: Luke ShelleyExec Producer: Jamie East  A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Now, I started this podcast because I wanted to have important conversations that matter. And today's episode is one that truly landed with a thud straight in the center of my heart. Frankie Bridge is a style icon, a pop sensation, and perhaps most importantly, a passionate ambassador for mine. Today, on The Life of Briney, you're going to hear her as you've never done before. I got introduced to this new psychiatrist who does ketamine therapy. I was just like, you know what, I've got nothing to lose. I need to try something. And I remember just sitting there and I was thinking, this is really sad that, you know, it's got to this point. But it has probably been one of the most effective treatments that I have had in all these years. My chat was Frankie. Coming up right after this. Frankie Bridge. Welcome to the life of briny. And I'm going to start with a very simple question. And that is, how are you really?

I think the very British thing is, I'm good, have you? Fine. Yeah, I'm fine. You know what? This week and today, I am good. I am really good. I feel like I have really turned a corner the last few days, whereas I feel like the whole of probably since, I don't know, like after Christmas

until now, I've been really struggling. I always find this time of year really difficult. I think it's the dark mornings, the dark nights, like the rain, the grey, work being really slow, having no, what do you call it? Structure throughout the day where the kids are off and whatever. So I do find this time of year really, really hard. So I have been in quite a dark place, but I feel like I'm starting to come back out of it now because I think life is starting to get back to normal again.

Yeah. The first time I met you was like on stage at the Mind Making a Difference. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. I knew it was nine years ago now. Gosh. I think I was like 10 minutes sober. And there was like Stephen Fry.

And there was Frankie Bridge and there was Prince Harry. And it was like, but you have been such an advocate for mental health stuff. Yeah. For quite a long time now. Yeah. It's funny because when you talk about. about the Mind Awards, they were so small back then. It has grown so much, which I think is an amazing sign at the times. Like, it's so funny to me that it was just kind of like me and

Stephen Fry that used to talk about our mental health. And I'm like, there would be no other way that we would be linked. It's kind of this like lovely shit group that no one wants to be a part of, but it's also awesome. At the beginning, Frankie. And it was, you're right, it was really unusual 10 years ago. You know, we've got at the moment this current trend of like, growing back to 26, 2016 people were not talking about their mental health. No. You were. Yeah.

And I think for me, it was kind of, if I'm honest, it was kind of a forced opportunity in a way in that I suffered from a mental breakdown. I think I was about 21 around that time. I get really confused about my age, which shows how old I am now. And I kind of, I chose to talk about my mental health because I was hospitalized. and obviously the press at the time where I was in a successful girl band kind of there were lots of speculations about where I was, why I was in hospital and a lot of it was an assumption that I had some sort of an addiction or an eating disorder. And I just kind of realized that no one really knew about any other mental health issues

other than those two, especially in the celebrity world. And so I felt it was my duty to kind of be, honest and say, actually, I suffer with depression and anxiety. I did have an eating disorder as well, but it was all an accumulation of those things. And it kind of, it's weird because when I look back now, no one was talking about that. And I kind of did it without realizing what an impact it would make. Also, can we go back? Because it seems wild to me now from this angle in the year 2026 to think, there you were, you were 21, right? And you had been hospitalized.

Yeah. And we lived in a culture where the press was sort of, why is she in there? You know, like that to me seems, it seems sort of crazy, doesn't it? Yeah. That it was, your life was a kind of, it was a story. Yeah. But it was real to you. Yeah.

I think, I guess I don't know much different because I've been in the industry. for such a long time. I do think it has changed a little bit, but I would say they'd still write about it now. Yeah. You were 12 when you came, when you became. Yeah. So I was in my first pop group when I was 12 called S.Cob Juniors.

Then I was in the Saturdays when I was about 17. Okay. And depression, when we talk a bit about depression. Yeah, of course. Because you have said in the past that you were sort of, of depressed from, like when you were in the womb. Yeah. And your grandmother used to call you sunshine and showers. When I read that, I was like, oh my God, that feels so relatable. Yeah, it's a weird one. I think I always say like my anxiety was always bad from such a young

age. Like I was a real deep thinker. I would always think the worst of situations. The catastrophize it. Yeah, massively. And I used to suffer with a lot of physical symptoms. like I was saying, you've got peptobismol behind you. And it's like a family joke that I just lived on peptobismal because I always had a stomachache, always felt sick. I had breathing problems at night because I just like, panic. Yeah, that was when I would lay there and think about everything.

And it's funny because it just wasn't, no one saw it as panic or anxiety or catastrophizing then. It was just, oh, she's a deep thinker and overthinker. And that was kind of it. That's, do you know, it's so funny because when you, mentioned that. I remember when I was a kid, I was about 10, remember my mom taking me to the GP because I had these breathing, like breathing problems. And she was like, I think Brian who's got asthma. And they did give me an inhaler. Yeah, I had one. But looking back, it was pan, I was having panic attacks.

Yeah. It's funny. We've come such a long way within all of that. And like, you know, I look at my kids, they're 10 and 12. And I can tell when they're worried about something or, you know, and you can call it anxiety and have the conversation with them. And I think maybe had times have been different, would I have got to the point of having a breakdown and, you know, my whole life kind of being having anxiety and depression throughout of it? I don't know. Would it have been any different? But just times have changed. Like, you know, even like this podcast and things like that, you just didn't have those conversations about them. So when you were 21, was that the first time you experienced the sort of culmination of the anxiety and the depression or would you say that it was sort of always

their sort of bubbly? I mean, did you know any different? Not really. I think the depression kind of started probably when I was about 17, 18, so probably quite near the beginning of the Saturdays and I, you know, we went through a stage obviously when you first start in a band, you're so busy. You don't. It's. Are you saying that? Obviously, I'm like, I don't know. I've never been in a band, prank. Oh, weird. Tell me how busy it was because most 17-year-olds aren't in bands and most 17-year-olds aren't that busy. No, true. I think, you know, you're doing, at the beginning, you're just gigging as much as possible and kind of your life becomes not your own, which is, and I loved it.

I have nothing bad to say about being in Saturdays or in S-Cob juniors. And I loved what I did. So it was, you know, you're doing interviews all day every day. You're in rehearsals. You're going and doing gigs at all different times of the night, traveling here, there and everywhere. You just kind of wait in to be told every day what it is you're doing. Like I never had to think for myself of like, oh, what am I going to do today? And I think it just took its toll.

I think I was overtired. I think I felt a loss of control around my life and, you know, what was expected of me. I think I put a lot of pressure on myself as well to be what I think people expect me to be. So I think that all, I was going through a breakup with a boyfriend quite publicly. And I think it all just came to a head, this accumulation of probably burnout. I had an eating disorder around that time. So I wasn't fuel in my body.

Do you mind talking about that? Yeah, that's fine. So you were just, you were depriving yourself of? Yeah, so I just wouldn't. really eat really. I had like a real strict routine of like you know I wouldn't have touched a carb like ever and I used to just purely live off of drinks that were full of sugar and stuff so they would keep me full and give me energy and then I would allow myself um like a cereal bar if I was really hungry or some chicken or something um and I think some of that was to do with how I look

but I think it was mostly a control thing, which I think they quite often are. And I think I obviously felt the pressure to look a certain way from being in a girl band, but that purely came from me of like searching for this constant perfection. But I think it mainly came from, this is the only way that I can take any control of my day-to-day life. And I think where my anxiety at the time was so bad,

I was just running on adrenaline all day, every day. So I wasn't hungry either. It's so weird what it can do to your body. It is wild. And I never was aware that I wasn't eating. It wasn't until I'd go into my therapy sessions and I'd just be shaking. And she'd be like, right, you need to eat something. And I'd be like, oh, well, I'm not really hungry.

And she'd force me to have like a cereal bar or something like that. It's just funny how you're in that state of mind, how I look back now and you can have so many different thoughts and feelings in the space of seconds, but still do your job, have conversations with people, have relationships, and it's wild. Also, I suppose back then, so when you were in the Saturdays, we were talking like the late naughtys, you know, like that was kind of normal in culture, wasn't it? Like, no carbs before marbs.

I'm thinking of all those things, you know. And the way, you know, people would put like crosses and ticks next to women's bodies in magazines. Yeah. It was really, yeah, it was really openly spoken about like me and my friends were even saying, like, there's no wonder. A lot of my friends, I would say, have disordered eating. Yeah. Not eating disorders. But it's funny, like we were talking about a certain cereal brand that had their own diet.

Yes. Yes. I think we all know the one who's. talking about friendly. And like me and my friends were talking about it the other day and like all of us did it. And we were young. Like this was before, you know, would have been even before like secondary school maybe. The red swimming costume. Yeah. Yeah. And you'd just be like, okay, yeah, there was no thought of nutrition or anything. It was just like this will make you slim. It is wild, isn't it? Thinking back, when you see now in the year 2026, someone will dig something up

on social media that was kind of normalized and all over the place in the noughties and go, this is what we all grew up with guys. I don't know, like sometimes I'll see like an article written about Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson or something, you know, and how fat they were. And I'll be like, what the fuck? Like these people were not by any, you know, stretch of the imagination over weight.

And the language was so toxic and we just sort of absorbed it. But we did and that's the point is we completely absorbed it. And I still, you know, me and my friends still talk now, like, we do still have that unhealthy relationship with bodies and weight and food and things. And we, we'd laugh about it because we're like, we literally had no chance, you know, the things we were consuming, whether it was in the press or whatever. I mean, well, yeah, it was in the press or like, you know, the people, you see the front covers now of these emaciated stars and like, I thought they looked great. And I still catch myself

now. I would still look at certain things and be like, oh, no, I think she looks lovely. And my friends will be like, no, Frank, like she's so underweight. And I'm like, oh. Or that pride of like if someone was to say to me, like my main aim was like if someone said to me, are you okay? You're looking a little bit too thin. Are you, it's something going on?

I'd be like, yes. Winner. You know what? I'm so grateful to you for being honest about this because I do think it is this constant, it's this thing in our heads that we all. almost not allowed to say, we can't say it anymore because obviously the kind of the movement towards body positivity, which is so important, but it doesn't mean the foundations of our disordered eating aren't still there. Yeah, I think it's, the body positivity movement is amazing

and it is so needed. But I think for some people, it, I felt a pressure to be body positive. And I felt almost ashamed to be like, I am, I'm not actually. I haven't suddenly become like full of acceptance for my body. No, like I still don't like my stretch marks or like, you know, and I still have hang-ups about my body. And I think, I think that's okay. Like I can still watch other people like you running in your knickers and think, oh my God, that's bloody amazing and be like, I couldn't do that.

And that's okay, you know. And I think we can still have things that we feel comfortable in and things that we don't. But it was, I mean, definitely needed. God, yeah. So you're a pop star in that time. And you already suffer from anxiety and depression. So that sort of maelstrom, that all coming together. So do you remember what happened at the time?

Yeah, I think I, for a long time, what I was doing was being fine at work and then coming home and just going straight to bed, whatever time of day it was. I wouldn't have dinner. I wouldn't socialise. I would just go straight home and go to bed. That has always been like my safe space to bed. And I'd come home, I'd often cry a lot and fall asleep. And then that was kind of the cycle that I was in. And then I remember some reason we had to pull out of a gig. I think everyone was ill, everyone was overtired. But we had to get a doctor's note for them to be able to like, you know, not screw us over with pulling out of this show very early on. And I went and sat with this doctor and I just cried.

I was like, I'm just so tired. And I don't know. I don't even know what I said. And he said to me, have you, do you think that maybe you need to go to therapy? I was so offended. I was like, what? Why would I need to go to therapy? Like, only Americans do therapy.

British don't, the Brits don't do that, you know? So you never had anything approaching that. Nothing. thing. And I thought, like, he was saying I was crazy. Like, that's how I took it. I remember, like, walking home and, like, ringing a friend and being like, can you believe he said this? Like, I was outraged. And outrage, absolutely outrage. And then it obviously struck a chord because I obviously knew I needed it. And then a few weeks later, I succumbed to it and was like, yeah, no, it was totally right. But it took me a really long time to one find a therapist that

I clicked with, which I think is something that people often don't talk about. You know, you don't have to like the first one you go to. It might not even be that you don't like them. They might just do a certain kind of therapy that just doesn't work for you. It's like dating. It is totally like dating. I've had loads of them now. And I've had loads of therapists. What's your number, Frankie? I don't actually know. My therapist number is probably higher than my sexual partner number. And that is saying something. That's quite impressive.

So anyway, back to 21. So they say you might need therapy, Frankie. Yes, this was like when I was like, I think about 1819, this was like early doors. Before you were hospitalized. Yeah, well before. And I was like, look, I'll see a therapist, but I'm not going on medication. Because again, medication was the bad guy, antidepressants or anything like that. It was like, you don't do that.

You know, it just wasn't spoken about. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not. So I did therapy for a really long time. And I just wasn't getting anywhere. So in the end, I was like, fine, I'll try medication. And I think they put me on Prozac first. But it just wasn't for me.

So whereas you have tried a lot of therapists, I've tried a lot of antidepressants. Right, okay. If you name it, I've probably tried it. And then I've tried all different concoctions. So I think that was like my first, like, entry point into therapy and antidepressants around, like, 18, 19. But it obviously only worked to a certain level. And then I changed therapists and psychiatrists.

And I saw this psychiatrist and therapists together. They worked together. And it was probably, yeah, when I was about 21 and I met my husband. husband, my now husband. And everything in my life was good. And but I just wasn't, I just fundamentally just wasn't happy. And I just was breaking down all the time, panic attacks like every day, numerous amount of times in the day. And I just couldn't function throughout my day anymore. I was turning up to work. I was having to like switch from being me to being and Frankie from the Saturdays, like I could notably remember walking into rooms and having to

like switch it on. And there was one show that we did, I think it was in Ireland. And the minute we got to the hotel, I just went in, turned all the lights off, shut all the curtains and just got straight into bed. And I think it was Molly who came into my room and she'd never seen me like that before. And I was just like, I couldn't stop crying. And I was like, I can't do the show. I can't do the show.

And I did manage too. but like with her like basically holding my hand and basically holding me up. And it was after that, my doctor was like, they all came to my house and they were like, you're going to have to go into hospital. It's the only way that you're going to get the time that you need because of my job. It was the only way that you're going to get the amount of time and the quiet and the space that you need to recover. So I organised it all with my agent.

I had one more music video that I needed to go and do. It was abroad somewhere. I managed to get through that And then I just came home Was it like being in a tracing paper version of your life? I always think that I imagine It's like I'm here but I'm not Yeah and I think I was kind of used to that

I think I'd be doing that for a lot of years But it felt like I was keeping this like dirty secret That I was about to go into hospital for my mental health And like the girls didn't know No one knew And I'd like built myself up so much just like, right, you just have to do this one last thing. And then, and then you can go and you go into hospital. And I think the weather was bad. And they were like, we might have to prolong the

trip for a day. And that just set me off because I was like, no, like I'd mentally prepared for this certain amount of days. I was going to go back. And then luckily it didn't and whatever. But I got back and wane took me into hospital. And it was, I was nervous, but I was just so ready to to hand myself over and just be like, I don't have to keep myself alive anymore. Like, someone else, that's someone else's job. And that's literally how it felt. It sounds to me like Wayne was this like calm, collected presence for you almost. Like, because that's also a really big test for a relationship quite early on, isn't it? Yeah, like it was like within our first year of being together.

And he didn't flinch at any point. No, it was really hard for him. He lost a lot of weight around that time. He was still playing football and, you know, it's, I look at him and I'm like, wow, I can't believe you stayed really because I was all over the place. I was saying all sorts of things. I was crying. You know, I was hard work. Like we had a massive row. I had a massive meltdown because he got me the wrong yogurts. And that was kind of like the breaking point is when we both kind of realized that it just something wasn't right. Because I was like, you don't know me, you don't love me, don't know who I am.

Like, looking back now, it was ridiculous. But it was just like this. turning point where we were just like, okay, something's not okay. So yeah, he was. He was a real rock and he like, you know, he really tried to learn as much as he could by talking to my therapists and stuff at the time. And it was, it was a tough time and he stuck it out. So did you tell the other band members or did someone else tell them? I don't think I told them. I can't remember. It's funny, like, I'm sure you understand, like time and stuff all around those years, I get them all mixed up. But I don't think I told them. I think they got told by someone else. And obviously then they had to carry on and kind of pick up the slack, just the four of them.

But the first, like, I don't know, week of being in there, they kind of like mess around with your medication. I wasn't sleeping, so they gave me lots of sleeping tablets. So that first week, I don't, I don't remember any of it. And I didn't actually tell my parents that I was going, I didn't tell them until I was in there for quite a few days. Really? Yeah. Why was that? I think I just didn't really know how to say that I was so unhappy in this seemingly perfect life

that everyone would want because that's what you're told when you're in these situations is that you're lucky to be here and be grateful. And, you know, everyone wants this and you have it. So don't mess it up. So I think to turn around to people and say that I got my dream and I was so unhappy that I was in hospital, it was quite hard to admit. And I think I didn't want my parents to think that they had done something wrong as well. I really, can I just say, I kind of want to like climb over the microphone and just like embrace little Frankie. I know.

You know, it's, oh, I always feel this whenever you share about anxiety. in depression as well on your social media is that sense of like you just said it about the Saturdays they had to pick up the slack and you don't want other people to feel bad and that is such a like a prevailing symptom I think of depression is where you feel like a burden on people and you feel like you're being too much or you're not being right or you just feel like a drain don't you on people and you're just not you're such a. ray of light and I just want you to know that and it's obviously when you say that when I hear someone else speaking about this thing that I've experienced it's so helpful to hear this.

Thank you. Yeah, I think it's funny when you say little Frankie because it's I've done a lot of work since on like, you know, healing your inner child. Yeah, your inner child which all sounds a bit woo-woo and if you just said that to me a few years ago I'd have been like, ugh, go away. But it is, it's so true. I'm able to see, you know, child Frankie and see her as separate and feel sorry for her and kind of like protect her rather than seeing the whole of me as depressed, anxiety and all of that. Like, it's just parts of me. Yeah. Because I mean, childhood, you know, 12 going into a big band, that's like your childhood is essentially done then, isn't it? Yeah, it's funny. I think

I was so lucky with S-Cob juniors in that there were so many rules. You know, we could only work a certain amount of hours a day. Our team never changed. We always had the same people around us and they were great. And as far as I was concerned at that age, I was just doing what I loved. And you don't feel that you're missing out on anything because that's your childhood and you're in the moment. But when I look back now as an adult, I'm like, yeah, I had to grow up really fast. And, you know, I was essentially working from a really young age.

And I look at my kids, like my eldest son is 12. And I'm like, there's just no way. There's no way that he'd be able to do it, I don't think. But it was my dream. Well, this is the thing. People ask me this all the time. And I think, you know, I feel for my parents because that was a decision they had to make. when I was younger and had they have not let me,

would I have hated them for the rest of my life and resented them for not giving me it? And had they have said no, I wouldn't be here doing the things I'm doing now. I think I'd find it really hard to say no. But it's not a position I would want to be put in, to be honest. So you spend going back to the hospital. So how long were you in there for?

I was in there for a month. It's meant to be in for three months, but we had an arena tour that we had. Yeah. And so you had to cut a short the stage. Yes. Because then I think it was something to do with insurance. Like now, I think insurance works differently in mental health is taken into account and stuff, but then it wasn't. And it just would have been awful, I think, had I have not done it.

But equally, touring was my favourite thing. And for me, I was like, there's no way I'm missing it. Like, I am doing it. So there was a whole team of people that worked on integrating me slowly back into work. And I was still very thin. I was still having panic attacks. And so what they did was I would stay in London. I would go and have vocal lessons because I was really insecure about my singing voice at the time.

I was, had like these special drinks to drink that had like lots of vitamins in and stuff because I was still running on adrenaline. so I was never hungry and I would have the same driver every day so I have familiarity around me so I felt safer and I think I did I went back to do a gig I think it was yeah why I think and I went to do the sound check and I just had a massive panic attack and that was the first panic attack that the girls had ever seen me have I think it really shocked them and it was just too soon so again we went back to slowly integrate me more. And actually, by the time we did the tour, obviously, you do like a month of rehearsals anyway. And all the dancers are great. They're always such a good

vibe to be around. And, you know, I was adamant. I was going to do it. I think, but I think the first performance I did back was for children in need. And that to me is a complete whirlwind. Like when I, if I see that back, it makes me sad. Really? Yeah. Because I just think, I wasn't really there. Like I remember I had to leave the dressing room, go and have a panic attack in the toilets, come back, put on a sparkly dress and get on stage. And that was my choice. You know, no one forced me to do it. But I'm just like, I was just like a shell of myself at that point. Yeah.

And yeah, it's quite sad to watch that, I think. So how long would you say it's taken you to come out of that shell-like state and get back to being Frankie? To get back to who I was at the time, I think by the end of our tour, I was like in a pretty good headspace. But I think I'd say only really over the last few years do I fully understand how my body works, what I need. And I'm still figuring it out. It's not like all sorted and done. but I think, you know, how many years ago now? Like, I'm 37 now.

It's a long time. Happy birthday, by the way. Thank you. It was your birthday quite recently, isn't it? Yeah, I thought I was actually turning 38, so that was a nice surprise. You're so young, Frankie. I've got so much to learn. I only got sober when I was 37.

I really? It's like a whole other world, but you're right, isn't it? It's like, I think when I don't know about you, but did you have this notion when you're younger, don't you? is that something bad might happen like a depression and then you'll get better from it and then life will go back to normal and you'll carry on and actually I've realised now that the reality is you're just on a constant journey of evolution, aren't you? Yeah, and obviously new things come that affect you in different ways. And I think, you know, having kids is a whole other thing, you know,

like they've been, they actually really helped me with my anxiety, having kids because I just realized I couldn't control everything anymore. Really? Yeah, I think a big belief of mine has always been that I'm in charge of like keeping everyone happy. Right. That's my role. I have to, you know, turn out, make everyone happy, make everyone else feel comfortable and like a real people pleaser. Which doesn't actually work.

You end up pissing people off anyway and whatever. But, you know, I kind of realized with my kids, I was like, I could wrap them in Cottomor and they're still going to fall over. Or someone is still going to say something to them that's going to make them cry. or like, you know, anything, anything small, anything big. And there's only so much I can do. And I kind of think it made me realise just that that's the same in life. There's only so much I can control, which is probably so obvious to some people, but it just wasn't to me.

But it was quite a healing thing for you having children. It was, yeah. It came with other things. Don't get me wrong. But anxiety-wise, it's made a massive difference. So now you're 37. I was watching one of your vlogs, which I love the other day.

And you were talking about, and I love this quote because, oh God, what did I say? It just relates. You said, I've never had a body that likes women's hormones. Yeah. And I was like, I kind of feel like

there's going to be a lot of women out there who are going to be like, yeah. What's that about? Like, why did they give them to me? Why didn't they make me a man? So how is the kind of the hormonal journey? How does that affect your mental health? Oh my God, massively.

I think, look, when I was younger, I had really painful period pains, and so did my sister. Like, she used to throw up and they're both like, like, pass out. Or like, I got put on these, like, really strong painkillers because they were just like, it was like unbearable pain that would make me be sick and all sorts. This is really, no, but hang on. Can we just acknowledge how hard that is?

How old were you when this? I don't know. I must have been like 13, 14. I was a bit later than everyone else, I think. When you look at it and you're like, when I was 13, because my periods were so painful, I got put on like super strong painkillers. Yeah. Like that's the kind of shit that we have to deal with as women.

I know, and we told that it's just normal. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like people were slowly realizing that it's not. But I think the only answer at the time was I'll just put her on the pill. Right. So I got put on the pill, but none of them agreed. with me. Like I tried so many different ones. Like they made me feel ill or I'd got leg pains. They'd

give me headaches, whatever. So that's why I ended up on these painkillers. And then, you know, I think I was, no, what did I have? Oh, I had the Morena, which I would have like the coil with the hormones and I would have sold that to anyone. Have it. You don't get periods. Like you get no period pain, nothing. Like it was just something. I didn't, it's protection. I didn't have to think about anything. And then I had that. out, obviously, when I had my first son, and then I had another one put back in, and it was just hell. Really? Yeah.

It changed. Yeah. It gave me, like, morning sickness symptoms, like, every two weeks. Just did not agree with me. So I had it out. And then I got adult acne for, like, a year. And I never had acne before that. And I was like, this is so unfair.

Like, I should have had this one. I was a teenager. And then I had, then I went on, I tried everything to, like, not go on the pill and nothing was working. So I was on the pill up until like last September. Wow. And now I've come off it to like, just to see what happens. And how's it going on it? I'm mental. My last period, I have never experienced PMS before. I could not understand it. Like my sister gets it and I was like, don't get it. You mean mood? Yeah. Like mood swings. I just like never. I was vital. Like I didn't even want to

live with me and I didn't have a choice because I am me. I was like, imagine being in the same house with me. Like, everything annoyed me. My patience was, like, so thin. Then, like, the day before my period, I just basically cried all day. And then I got my period and I was like, oh, that's what it was. Well, it sounds like PMDD. Yeah.

Well, I don't, yeah, I don't know. This is the first one where it's been that bad, so we'll see. Or perimenopause. Well, this is what I think is. It's like a brain like mush now. So... Possibly. Well, it does start in your late 30s.

Yeah. The hormones start to sort of tail down. I know. But there are wonderful, I think also, I've got a theory about this time of life, Frankie, which is that it's also when your body, it's like the things it brings up are like, it's a witchy magic. It's like your body and your brain's way of going, are you going to deal with this now? Because if you don't, the next 40 years of your life are going to be fucking miserable too.

Yay. I'm like, I don't know if that was meant to make me feel better. I'm really sold that to you. No, but it's like an opportunity. Yes. Do you know what I mean? To like get it right. What though?

What am I getting right? Well, just like to get to be like I'm going to shed all the things that have held me back in like people pleasing. All of those things, those masks that we put on as women to help us survive. Yeah. In a way I feel like life is like you spend the first kind of three or so, you spend the first three or so decades trying to be the person you. you think you're supposed to be. A hundred and then the remaining decades are trying to undo it and be the person you actually are.

I feel like that's where I am now. I feel I look back and I feel sad for me. I feel sad for certain people around me at the time because I think I was being, spending my whole time just being who I thought I was meant to be and doing the things that everyone expected of me. And I feel like now for the first time, I'm like, you know, actually, I don't know if I do want to do that anymore.

So who is Frankie Bridge now? Oh, God, fuck notes, I don't know. I'm like, Brian, I haven't figured it out that much. But also, we can change. We don't have to be fixed in one particular state forever. I think I'm just someone who's trying in a different way. I think I, where it's before, it was just all about, okay, what am I supposed to do? I think being successful from such a young age, I've always just been like, okay, that's who I am.

who people see me as, and I have to keep that up. Like, imagine at the age of 16, looking at the rest of your life and thinking, fuck, I've done the thing. I've done the thing I wanted to do. Yeah. And now, now what? Anything else I do, everyone's going to think I'm failure

because nothing's as big as that thing, you know? And luckily for me, I got to do it all again. Not many people can say that. You know, I've been in two successful pop groups. And I spent my whole life feeling like I was lucky because everyone told me I was lucky. And actually now I'm like, yeah, I was, but also I've worked fucking hard. Like, I ended up in both those situations.

And, you know, I'm still here 24 years later. Like, that has to stand for something. And I can say that now and feel confident with it. Whereas I think up until now, I felt so apologetic about being who I am. Really? Yeah, and having the success that I've had. Like, you had to kind of, you didn't deserve it. Or you had to, yeah.

Like we often feel as women, you had to go cap in hand and be thankful for it. Yeah, and I am. But also I'm like, I worked for it. Yeah. You know, I put out with a lot of rubbish through it as well. And I've come out the other side. What kind of rubbish? Just like, you know, like dealing with my anxiety and my depression and, you know,

press and people talking about you. And, you know, and that comes hand in hand. I don't expect people to feel sorry for me because of it. But it's hard and it takes its toll on you. And if you're already someone that is a bit of a people pleaser, it only breeds more of that. And it's only really now that I can kind of be like, okay, you can't please everyone.

And not everyone has to like you. And I still don't believe that some days. Oh, yeah. I think it's harder in an industry like ours because you are successful with people like you. So I think that does breed more of it. and I think it's harder to, because, you know, then there's a fear of, oh, am I not going to be successful anymore?

Am I not going to get any jobs? And, you know, it's scary. But I think actually now people just want people to be honest. And it's better to have a smaller tribe of people that like you and believe in you than to have, like, of everybody. And stand for nothing. And to stand for nothing. Yeah.

And that's, I think, where I got to the point where I was a bit like, you know, I don't really. know what I do stand for. What do I really believe? What do I really want to do? But I think you have to be in, I think you have to have done a certain amount of work as well to be able to get to that point. On yourself. So can we go back to that work? Yeah. And the therapies that you have tried. Yeah. The one I'm dying to ask you about because I'm so fascinated in it is ketamine therapy. Mm-hmm. Can you share this wild world with me? Because I'm hearing more and more about these experimental ways of tracing treatment resistant depression.

Yeah. And this is one of them. And clearly you're a bit of an advocate for it. I am, yeah. You know what? It came from a bit of a weird situation and a dark situation. So I'd had my psychiatrist for about 12 years. And for me, I was like, he is the man that kept me alive.

He's the man that put me in hospital. And I, you know, he'd seen me through a lot of things. And he took his own life. And it's so wild when it's someone's job to look after other people's mental health and to keep other people alive and stop other people from taking their own lives does that very thing. And it's a really strange thing to deal with because you're close to them but you're not. But also I was kind of like angry at first because I was like,

no, you've done the thing that you've been telling me not to do. Like, how dare you? And then also sad because. because he'd been helping me. And then it's such a confusing thing. So you start to sort of question a bit of what you think you know. Yeah. I was like, okay, so like, is it all bullshit then?

Everything he's told me, because if he couldn't help himself, like, is what he's, it's so, it's a weird situation. It's okay. It's been quite a few years now, but it kind of out of it came something good because I had to change therapists. So I started to see, for a while, for about a year, I didn't see anybody. body and I got to a point where I was like, okay, like, you need to pick this back up now, Frank. You know, you're not fixed.

You need someone to kind of keep on top of it. And I got introduced to this new psychiatrist who does ketamine therapy. And it was something that me and my old therapist had started to talk about. And I was just like, you know what, I've got nothing to lose. I need to try something. I was in like this real kind of like space where I was starting to go into those old patterns of like everyone would be better if I wasn't here anymore. It would be easier. You know, I do all this hard work and I still end up in these same thought patterns. And he was like, I think you should try

it. And terrified because I've never taken a drug in my life. Yeah, you're not that person. No. Like I'm like, for me, I'm like taking drugs is like you're either going to have a really good night out or you're going to die. That's how I see it. I'm like, I'm just not sure it's worth the risk. And I love being in control, obviously. And so for me, it was a really big thing. And I remember the first night doing it. It was like around Christmas time quite a few years ago. And I remember just sitting there and I was thinking,

this is really sad that, you know, it's got to this point. It's nearly Christmas. I could hear people outside, you know, like sounding happy and they're out doing the Christmas shopping. And I thought, I've worked so hard on myself for all these years. And I'm now in the position where I'm having ketamine intravenously put into my body. and I was just like, I just thought it was sad.

But it has probably been one of the most effective treatments that I have had in all these years. And it's a funny one because it's about the process of while you're having it, because it lowers all of your ego and it puts you into kind of an out-of-body experience. so you're disassociated. So things that you've maybe pushed down, things that you've never processed before, it gives your brain a chance to process them. So you're on a,

intravenience, so on a drip? Yeah, it's a drip. And then is, presumably there's a therapist there with you at a time. When I first did it, there wasn't. Right. But now when I do it, there is. So they're just there to kind of watch you, make you feel safe.

They write things down if you say anything. Like, you don't necessarily have to speak. And how does it feel? It's weird because I've done so many different strengths. So it's quite, I have a huge fear of death because I don't understand it because I'm not religious. I'm like, it's just nothingness. What's the point? I just can't go into it.

And for me, it's the closest to what I imagine that feels like because I, you feel so far away from yourself. And you go through all these different. you know, like sometimes it feels really dark and I feel really small but really big at the same time and I can be like, I can feel like I'm a piece of mud squashed on the bottom of a shoe and then it will suddenly go really bright and I'm like the sparkly bit on top of the ocean

and I feel really free and like it's a ride it is like a real ride and I always reach the peak where I feel the furthest away and I always have this moment where I'm like am I ever going to come back and then the therapist will have. hold my hand to ground me. I just reach my hand out and then she'll just hold my hand and then I'm like, oh, okay, like I know I'm safe. And then that's it. It's kind of like 45 minutes. You come out,

you're a bit groggy, a bit tired. The treatment basically is about growing new neurons, but also reconnecting them. So if you have treatment resistant depression, it kind of builds a wall between them. And this and ketamine creates a way for them to grow around that. So it's a treatment that works while you're having it but also continues to work afterwards. So it's amazing. But at the minute, it's really expensive and it's not that readily available. And I think it's a real shame because it's been life-changing for me. And how often do you have it? So you do a course of about like six to eight. So you do one a week for six to eight weeks. And then you do a follow-up consultation the next day on Zoom to kind of talk through anything that might have come.

up and things like that. And then for some people, they do it once, they never have to do it again. I've done about four rounds now. And now the plan is that I would probably do just like one every few months. We're going to like see how long the kind of goodness from it lasts. And then if I feel a dip, we'll kind of like, I would do it. Maybe start just doing one a month and then maybe one every three months and see where it goes from there.

Wow. Yeah. Do you have other kind of therapy or is it just that now? I do and I don't because while I'm doing it, I see this therapist while I'm doing it. But I've tried EMDR, which is supposed to be amazing. I cannot do it. If you say to me, right, sit there and visualize a core memory, it just, I'm too busy thinking. What are you wanting me to think?

Right. Like, I just can't do it. Like, think of your feeling as a colour. it was not a bloody colour, is it? Like, I just can't do it. Where do you feel it? I think I feel it in my chest. And then tap it.

And I'm like, I just like, I can't embrace it. No. And people love it. And I really want it to work for me, but it's just not for me. I think, I've tried hypnotherapy. I just fell asleep. That's nice. Yeah.

Doesn't do the job, though. And then I was just, just have done. what's the talking, just general talking therapy? And that's it, really. Talk to me about, can I ask you, you did this brilliant post a couple of months ago about mum guilt. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that because I just think it's something that our listeners will really resonate with about you having to deal with that, especially being in the public eye, like if you deign to go off like two nights with your girlfriend. It's like, poor children or whatever.

How do we combat this ridiculous, sort of internalised, almost sexism, isn't it? Because it's often women that are doing it to us. Yeah. It's so weird, isn't it? I don't know. I really don't know. I think all we can do is like unapologetically do the things that we need to do. And the more we do it, the more people will accept that actually it's okay.

Yeah. I don't know the way out because I think it is so. internalised and so ingrained from years and years, you know, like, different generations wouldn't have dreamed of leaving their children and doing anything else. Even to go for dinner, you know, they were with them all the time. So I really don't, I really don't know how it would change. I hope it does soon because I'd say that's probably one of my biggest issues. Guilt for me is a big thing anyway, but guilt with my kids is like tough.

for then to have people online be like, oh, who's got the kids or, oh, your poor children, poor Wayne, what does Wayne think? Can we just talk about this? You have got it nailed here, right? Because Wayne retired when he was like, what, 30. I think he was my age. Footballers, they get put out to pasture, bless them, right? But, you know, they're okay. They do all right in the time that they are, you know, running around, kicking the ball.

But like, so you have this actually quite like very modern progressive relationship where he does a lot of the child care. And I think that's fantastic. But again, it's like, why do we think men deserve medals for just doing, being parents? Honestly, it drives me mad. Like when, you know, he was helping us as something. And he is very domesticated and I am not. And he's a really good host and I am not. Like if you come to my house, I'll show you where the drinks are, show you where the snacks are.

want you to fill at home, help yourself. Yeah, but I'm not going to... I'm not going to spend the night asking you, do you need anything else, do you or whatever? I'm just like, you want to drink, get one. Yeah. Be at home. Yeah.

And in my head, I'm like, that's nice. I'm like, that's how I want my friends to feel. Wayne is amazing. Like, every year, like me and my friends do wreath making at my house, Wayne puts on a full spread. And like, while they were all there, he's like doing the dishwasher or whatever. And everyone's like, how lovely. And I'm like, yeah, it is.

but also like sometimes it's a real knob as well. Like, you know, like it, you know, we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. And it's funny because I came from a family where my mum and dad were very equal. Like they both worked, they both cook dinners, they both cleaned to the house. Like, we all clean the house together.

And I didn't ever really expect anything different in my relationships. And I'm sure he would love me to be better at a lot of those things. But, you know, like even the fact that he does the school run and stuff and one's always like, oh, Oh, what the fuck? And I'm like, well, of course he does.

They're his kids as well. Yeah, it's like when blokes are like, oh, I've got to babysit tonight. No, that's so. Do you have an extra job? For money. Babysitting someone else's children. I'm like, oh, no, my children. I'm like, well, that's parenting.

Yeah, that's just parenting. But you're right. The next time I put on the dishwasher, I want someone to go, oh, how lovely. Brynie's put the dishwasher on. Well done, Briney. Oh, look, how lovely Briney's on the school run. Like, what the fuck? I know, it's so, it's so.

it's so weird. And I know Wayne doesn't see it that way either. Like it's funny, but I just think we've been taught that, you know, men do the work and the women stay at home. And even though we have come such a long way, sometimes I don't know if it comes from a jealousy of like when people will give me shit about it online. I don't know. But it blows my mind. Because I'm like, I have no, you know, I have friends in all different situations. Some of them work. Some of them don't. And I never look at any of them and think, oh, you're doing it wrong. And I don't understand why we still have this like real strong like women on women, like disappointment in each other or just trying to make each other feel bad.

How do you navigate that with social media? If you are like us and overthink a sensitive, like an emotionally sensitive person, it can be hard, I think, sometimes not to take on all of the kind of comments that random strangers sometimes leave. How do you protect yourself? I tend not to look so much. I kind of post things and don't really look at the comments. Post and run. Yeah, which is a shame because she's supposed to engage with people that follow you. It still hurts sometimes. I think the time that you're talking about is I went away with my friend for like five days and I'd been working a lot. Wayne couldn't come away. The kids were still at school and Wayne was like, just go. Go have some sun. Go relax. And that's what I did. And then

I posted about it and I just got this absolute backlash and I was like first of all I was like oh my god yeah like it did make me feel bad about myself and then I was like actually no like how how are we still here how are we still these people yeah and I and I'm just like Wayne goes snowballing or he goes to like Glastonbury or whatever and I'm a guarantee you there's no comments under there like how does Frankie feel about you in a way. What about the kids? And that's what annoys me. If it was kind of coming on both ways, I'd be like, all right, fair. But I'm like, what? And also, what are we teaching women that you're not allowed to have any joy for yourself? Or you can't go or relax or you, or you have to be with

your husband and your kids 24-7 no matter what. I just, I'm like, how awful would that be? How awful? Also, way would hate it if I was within 24-7? My husband's always like, I'm like, oh, can I go. Would you mind if I went away? He's like, go. Go, please. Leave now. Go five minutes ago. Yeah. We have like a real relationship of like, I don't tell him what to do. If he's going out, he's going out.

If he's going to go away, you know, like he's just got back from Paris. He's been away of his friends for the weekend. He went to rush a gig. Sounds awful to me. I'm like, you go do that. Gaultette? What's the DJ? I'm not a DJ gal.

Is he quite cool? Is he? Yeah. He does actually really put me to shame. He actually gets like fully properly dressed every day. Which really annoys me. Why do you get fully dressed? Well, like just like on a normal day.

I'm just in leggings and a hoodie. Yeah. He just looks cool every day. He looks cool and he does this cool run. I want to just quickly ask you about you and Wayne's love language. It's Dioralite? Yes. For me it is, yes.

Can we just talk about this? This is my favourite thing. So I don't really drink very much and I get really scared when I do have a drink. I'm going to get a hangover and I'm going to be tired or I'm going to be sick. I've got a phobia of being sick. So I just like, you know, there's no point. I don't know why I drink, but why I do know why's pressure. And I still do it anyway.

Yeah. And what way, he knows when I get in that I will come home and I will want to have some sort of an electrolyte before I go to bed. That's what I do. And sometimes when I go out, he just leaves me out a little, a Stanley or a water bottle and then a little electrolyte on the side. And I'm like, oh, he loves me. Oh, how lovely.

We've been together a hundred years, you know. this is the bar now. So while Wayne is on the school run, you are working hard with faves, which is about creating a safe space for people to kind of embrace a world that perhaps people don't often feel that kind of included in, which is fashion.

Yeah. Tell me about faves. You know what? I feel like for someone that's been in the music industry and always kind of been public facing, And like, you know, fashion has always been a big part of what I do. I love it. People always comment on what I wear.

And especially now with social media, you know, everyone can ask you where it's from and you can put a link up and all of that. And that's kind of like where it was born from. And it was a stage in my life where, you know, I had two young kids. I've come out of being in a girl band. People weren't telling me what to wear every day. And I was kind of a bit like lost. I was like, I don't know, like, what suits my new body?

What do you wear when you're not doing interviews all day? You know, I couldn't wear five inch hills every day, which is what I'd kind of. spent my life doing and I was like kind of finding my style again and I kind of did that over Instagram and people connected with it and so Frankie's faves was born. I was doing that for a really long time and then I met my now business partner and she was like I just think you could be doing more like women want more of this you know there's so much information on social media now of fashion and everything now and she was like I think this could be a business So we kind of, we turned it into faves, took away the Frankie,

because there was a whole team of us now. And it's grown over the years and we're about to do like our third live event. And it's all about creating a space for women to find community of light-minded people and to feel accepted in the fashion world because I have never felt that. And it can often feel like a space that you're not allowed to be in or that even if you enjoy fashion, if you're not following all the latest trends or you're not wearing designer,

then you can't be a part of it. And that's just not true. It's about expressing yourself. It's about feeling confident. And we always say it's about more than just the clothes because these women come to our events. We inspire them of how to change up. You know, anything you have in your wardrobe

will show you different ways to wear it, show you what you could be wearing on the school run or whatever. And it sounds so simple and top level, but it's not. You know, we have women that have come and have just not long had a baby and they feel lost and they are crying because, you know, we've just given them a new idea of how to style what they're wearing every day. And a lot of women come alone and then they leave and they go for lunch with other women that they've met.

And it's been a real journey and it's a group of women there's like about five of us that do it. We all love it. We're all, you know, we're a startup. We've had no investment or anything. doing a million different jobs and winging it. And we've just sold out our catwalk show that we're doing during London Fashion Week. Congratulations. Thank you.

Because I want them to feel like they can be a part of Fashion Week. And there's people even that work for brands that, you know, work their arses off that never get to step into a fashion show. You know, they do all the work around it and then they don't get to experience it. So we're trying to create that space for women to feel accepted in that part of the world. How does it feel, Frankie? Like, this is quite full circle. We started off talking about you as, you know, in your early 20s, you had an eating disorder.

You were painfully uncomfortable in your body, right? And though you've obviously still have, you know, we all have our patterns that are kind of baked into us, I suppose, by the culture we grew up in. You're now a businesswoman who is clearly much more comfortable in your own skin. and you're helping other women to be to feel the same. Do you appreciate the journey you've been on, Frankie Bridge? I don't think I think about it very much. But I have, I've been working with a life coach and I am a lot better at acknowledging these things now.

And I do, yeah, I do see it now. And I think I'm more in a place now where I'm like, this is what, this is what I want to do when I spoke about, you know, change and of what should I do next and doing things that you're not really loving. This is what I love. Like I get to go into work with a group of women that all want the same outcome. We all want the same thing. And I get to meet people that it makes a difference to. And we're forming this little community. And I see myself in them. And I think that's why it works. You know, I've been all of them at different points of my life. And we all go through that, whether you have kids or not. You know, our body change.

with time, age, hormones, so many different things. Our job changes. As women, I think we evolve so many times for our lives, whereas I don't think men have that as much. And I think we can lose ourselves a bit. And I love giving that space for women to kind of be like, oh, okay, this is where I'm supposed to be. And that feels good.

Oh, I love you, Frankie. I want to finish with this. And I would like everyone listening to do this as well, which I want you to really acknowledge how awesome you are by saying, my name's Frankie Bridge and I'm awesome. And if you're at home, I want you to say, my name is, whatever your name is, and I'm awesome. Come on.

That's awful. My name's Frankie Bridge and I'm awesome. Yay! And wherever you're listening, I want you to just take a moment today, to look in the mirror and say that to yourself. Not my name's Frankie Bridge and I'm awesome. My name's whatever your name is. and you are awesome. You are awesome, Frankie. Thank you so much for coming on The Life of Brieney.

Thank you so much, Frankie. That's a gorgeous, candid conversation. Let me know your thoughts over on Instagram at at Life of Bryny Pod. Frankie will be back on Friday for our special bonus episode, The Life of You, where she'll be talking about the things that keep her ground. In the meantime, Don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate, rave about us to your friends, but most importantly, keep being you. I'll see you next time.