The Life Of Bryony - From Pop Stardom to Sobriety: Kavana on Addiction, Fame & Finding Recovery

Episode Date: July 20, 2025

What happens when fame, addiction, and the longing for acceptance collide? In this deeply personal episode, Bryony sits down with Anthony Kavana – nineties hitmaker and now author of "Pop Scars” ��� for an unfiltered conversation about the highs and lows of pop stardom, coming out, and the painful realities of addiction.   Kavana shares how chasing validation in the spotlight led to a hidden spiral of drinking, drugs, and prolonged struggle. From heartthrob posters to rehab, he details the emotional cost of living a lie, the brutal cycle of relapse, and the raw process of rebuilding self-worth outside of fame. Through honest conversation, he shares lessons learned, the pain and growth found in hitting rock bottom, and how embracing vulnerability became his path to healing.   WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU   Got a question or a story to share?   Text or send a voice note on 07796657512 - just start your message with LOB   Use the WhatsApp shortcut: https://wa.me/447796657512?text=LOB - Prefer email? Drop us a line at  [e-mail] If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need it—it really helps! Bryony xx   Credits:  Host: Bryony Gordon   Guest: Kavana                   Producer: Laura Elwood-Craig   Assistant Producer: Ceyda Uzun   Studio Manager: Sam Chisholm   Editor: Luke Shelley   Exec Producer: Mike Wooller    A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Seriously popular This episode of The Life of Briny is sponsored by Asda, with thousands of prices rolling back across the store and online. That's good honest value. That's Asda Price. I'll be honest with you, in the moment, life was good of me sat in a skip smoking crack with a complete stranger, playing her my pop videos on YouTube on my phone. Where you ended up was homeless. Literally, that's where the last drink took. Statistics say that I should either be drunk, high or dead right now.

It was medicinal and it was like as important to me as oxygen to be able to function. It's taken me four years of constant relapse. I have this thing that's centered in my mind that tells me against all the evidence that one drink will be okay again. Not just about fame, it's what happens after fame and most importantly it's an addiction memory. It's an addiction memory. Anthony Caverner. Yes.

Or Caverner as those of us in our forties who listened to you in our teens will know you. Welcome to the life of Briany. Thank you for having me. I am so grateful to be here. And it doesn't feel quite real. I mean, I'm sat here with this book that I've written and I'm being interviewed by you. And it's very surreal. So I, the first time I knew of your existence, Cav, is it okay to call you, I call you Cav. Call me that.

It's your name. Listen, I've been called a lot worse things and probably will be if I read this book. So, Cav is fine for now, trust me. So Cav, so the first time I knew of you, when I was a teenager, I had your poster on my wall, right? I was like pure pop girly and I loved to take that and I remember you came out, I can make you feel good.

Can you sing it? No, not now. But you know the weird thing is Brian and I was, I sang that, well I've sang that song thousands of times and I sometimes wonder if it was some weird karmic debt that I went around saying I could make you feel good and then I ended up spending years and years trying to make myself feel good the wrong way, you know? So that's kind of weird, isn't it?

Well, it brings us to, I want to sort of start with how we met a couple of years ago. So we kind of like followed each other on Instagram. I was really excited because my like 90s pop star heartthrob followed me on the gram and I was like, God! And you, do you want to talk? Well it's a bit of a blur, Brianie, because I was still in the bit of the madness at the time. I wasn't sober and I was struggling, but I was still getting away bit of the madness at the time. I wasn't sober and I was struggling, but I was still getting away with it, you know, kind of.

But I remember messaging you and telling you that I was in recovery or that I was sober. I can't really remember. You wanted to get, you were trying to get sober. I was trying to, yeah. And we ended up going to a meeting, didn't we? One of those meetings that we go to, one of those recovery meetings.

And I was drunk. Yeah. And you were very, very kind to me, very nice, very supportive. I just wasn't ready at that point, but we've kept in touch ever since. Yeah. And we have ended up doing service at the same meetings, or I've made the tea, you've been the secretary. So it's been a, yeah.

I remember that day meeting you and you were like, you know, that's really important being sober and then there was this, and I was like, I don't know if he is sober, but you know, like my, you know, the spidey sense. Yeah, because we try, we try and get away with it, don't we? I remember being like that myself. And you know exactly what that's like when you think you're kind of pretending that you're sober and another alcoholic can spot that straight away. But you were very honest and you suddenly went, actually, I'm still drinking.

Right. I've just had a drink. Right. Because I obviously felt safe enough to say that. I've just had a drink. Right. Right. Because I obviously felt safe enough to say that. But this, so, you know, I want to kind of rewind right back to, right back to the beginning. So you have written, I mean, this is an incredible story.

It's your life, but it is incredible what you have done. So you, you are now, I mean, let's, let's, so you wanna, how many, how sober are you? Three and a half years sober, which just- Can we just give a, like a big- Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. No, but this is a good moment because I also want anyone tuning in who, I hope this podcast will help people who are at the jumping off point where they don't want to carry on drinking,

but they also don't know how to stop. And maybe they don't, they don't want to carry on drinking, but they don't want to stop. They don't know how to stop because I've been there, you've been there, and I think it's really important to tell this story for people who you look at sober people on on Instagram and it just like like you can't believe that they ever had the level of problems that you had and I want to just sort of so I want to make that clear so three and a half years is fucking amazing Thank you. And, but it's hard one. Yeah, it is. I mean, it took, so I first came into recovery because obviously there's being sober and

there's being in recovery and, you know, neither one is necessarily better than the other. You know, it's still amazing if you have a problem, you manage to get sober. So I've been in recovery for a long time, i.e. trying to get sober. So, yeah, so in recovery means you've been going to... In meetings. Twelve step meetings. Twelve step meetings and doing all that stuff. But, so that's probably been about seven years. So it's taken me four years of constant relapse, right? Because I have this illness, disease,

whatever you want to call it. You know, I have this thing that's centered in my mind that tells me against all the evidence that I've got and all the consequences that have happened and all the times I've burned my life to the ground, that one drink will be okay again, right? And it took me years, Brian, to think, to get my head around that. And I just wasn't getting it. I wasn't getting it. I didn't

understand why I would start to feel well again. You know, life would get good again if I slowed down, but it was progressive as well. And I didn't realize that either. Something happens when I have a drink, I want another one. Yeah. Within seconds. Same with me. Yeah, you get this. You're saying this as if I might not understand this.

Yeah, but I'm just saying for the listener, like if any of these things ring true, like when I have a drink, it starts this craving for another one, right? And it's not like craving a bar of chocolate. It's all consuming. Right? I can't stop thinking about it. And I get panicky until the next one arrives. And then that's that and I battled that for years. And you don't stop until I mean, like sometimes and that's what really comes across in this book. It really took me back to those days, you know, like where it's like, oh my God, that thing where I used to go out with friends and it would be they would have one or two and then they'd be like, oh, it's time to go home now. And I couldn't understand, because for me, I didn't know when I would go home. It would be when I had probably passed out. Someone had actually had to forcibly deliver me home, but I've

been in blackout or something. Do you know what I mean? But it was never a conscious decision that I made to stop drinking, you know? Until, I guess, and we will get to this point where you have to make that decision. Like, did you, like the next day, like, I then discovered the hair of the dog. Or for me, like the whole body of the dog. You know, that was a miracle because suddenly I didn't have to suffer all day long. Yeah. Because my hangovers weren't like, I couldn't just have two paracetamol and a bacon sandwich. Like normal people. And then park up and get on with it.

Yeah, like it was debilitating like I'd had an electric shock or something. Yeah. Let's go, let's wind right back to the beginning. So because we've got the book that I've written. Yeah, Pop Scars. It's gone. Okay. Pop Scars, which is a memoir of not just your kind of descent into addiction

and your eventual recovery from, but also the other thing that is so fascinating is it's this kind of like behind the scenes look at a world that many people who tune into the life of Briony will have been obsessed with as young people as teenagers, which is the kind of smash hits, pop world. I was just like, I remember every other Wednesday rushing down to the newsagent to get my copy of smash hits.

Me too. You know, and I was like obsessed with all of the bands and all of the people that you write about, you as well, you know, and you, this goes behind the scenes of what it was really like to be a pop star in the 90s. So you grew up in Manchester. I did. Gay, but not out. No, I, yeah, I mean, I was just a gay kid and in the closet.

I hadn't really experienced any gay relationships, anything like that. And my dream was to be a pop star. I thought that would somehow... Solve everything. Solve everything. And it is, I am a bit of a cliche, I suppose, like, oh, it doesn't fix you. Fame doesn't fix you. But I was like you, like I would buy Smash It every two weeks.

That was my Bible. Oh my God. I would sit in my room reading it from cover to cover and carrying the posters out and you'd get the posters and you'd cover your school books and in that. Yeah, I just love Smash It. So then suddenly for it to happen and yeah. So you have this incredible voice. Thank you. So in the book, you were taking yourself to kind of nightclubs in Manchester where you knew there was a kind of scene

of people in the music industry. There was a music manager, a pop band manager was a music manager, a pop band manager, who you... Let's talk this through, because you were 16? So I'd left school, I was quite chubby, and I was mistaken for a girl up until the age of 16 all the time, right? I was like, I had this long, I had the curtains back then actually,

before they came back again. But when you're like 13 and 13 stone, it's, it's a bit of a funny look, you know, people used to say, Oh, is that a boy or a girl? Is that a boy or a girl? Is that a boy or a girl? Which is okay when you're little, but when you're older, it's a bit, you know, so anyway, what I'm trying to get to is one summer, my last school holidays, I got, I lost all this weight and I got my hair cut and I came back and I suddenly looked like a different person. Came of age. I just, you know, you just change. Like you just, I came of age, I suppose. I thought

I did. And me and my cousin and my best friend, I was working at McDonald's. I told everyone in school that I was going to be managed by this famous pop manager. And I'd never met him. I'd never, there was no evidence for that to be true, but I just believed it. And I used to look at Smash It and say, I'm going to be on the cover of that. I mean, was it manifesting back then? Who knows? You know, I don't know. You were manifesting. Maybe it was manifesting back then. Lo and behold, one night we go out and we can't get into two nightclubs. We were about to go home. I'd just been fired from McDonald's, I think. So it was a big rim.

And then we went to a club called the Paradise Factory, which is where the cool Manchester hacienda style, but it was gay, you know, and that's when I met the manager and that's when my fate changed. Okay, so you're 16 years old and you're at this nightclub and you start talking to the manager and he kisses you. There was a kiss. I remember that. And how old was the manager?

30s, late 30s. Okay, so I mean, like, can we... He didn't know my age at that time. Yeah, okay, but this is the thing. So like, I want to talk to you about this because you didn't know your age, but still... There was a time when I didn't want to put that in the book. And then the more that I wrote and the more, you know, with therapy and going to meetings and stuff like that, I mean, there's a bit in the book where that's addressed on my 40th birthday in rehab where I've read, God rest his soul, my old therapist says he suggested that's what it could be. And I'd never thought of it like that because this is the person that changed my life. This is the person that took me from a council house to, you know, and nobody forced themselves on me ever. But it was complex. And I think there was some arrested development

that went on for sure. And I had feelings for this person because suddenly something opened in me where I was attracted to a man who had power, who was changing my life. And, you know, so he, because you recorded like a demo. So I went home and I made this demo tape. I told him I had a demo tape. I didn't have a demo tape, but I made it at home on my hi-fi. You manifested it. I made it tape to tape, manifested it. And then I took it down to his agency and when I got home, my mother said somebody's called and she said his name and I, she only had incoming calls because she didn't pay

the bill. Right. So she gave me 50p and I went to the phone box and a bit like Superman, I went in the phone box and I walked out of the phone box with him basically saying, come down to my office, I want to sign you, kind of thing. So you walked in a 16 year old, just left school, boy, and you walked out of the phone box a pop star?

Soon to be. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so I mean... And the name change took place as well. So my identity started changing that this this little Anthony person secretly gay Anthony who was a bit of a you know geek and a bit bullied here and there suddenly now was somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Powerful stuff. Power I mean, because this is, so you went and you worked at his company for a while to kind of get into the ropes and stuff.

Sure. And I think that was clever because, you know, it's, he said, well, I want you to leave McDonald's. Well, I've already been fired, so that's not a problem. It's a hard decision to make. It's been made for me. An episode with the filet-o-fish, which we won't go into, but it's in the book. And basically, so he, yeah, so I was in the office and I would be the tea boy, but really I was starting to train to be a pop star. And you know what? He said, you need to write your own songs. Played the piano, but I'd never wrote, written or wrote a song. I still don't know how to say that. Is it written

or wrote? Even though I've written a book. So I did. And then I found that I could do that. I could find that I found that I started to write songs quite easily or it was natural to me. And then lo and behold, 18 months later, record deal and off we go. I'm now pushed out there and I'm this solo artist. There's so many things in this book that make me go, wow, whoa. Almost like you, it's amazing anyone survives that. Some don't, right? Yeah. We'll come onto that. Like the, the, because it

is the dream, but in actually, when you look at it from a sort of grown up adult healthy place, it's like, that's fucked up. You are suddenly you're, you know, a boy who lives in a council house with his mum and dad, and then suddenly you are buying your mum and dad a new house, you know, and it's like this, the money and you're being, you know, you're in this kind of system, you're signed to the label with this new girl, you know, your label mates of this new girl band who have turned out to be the Spice Girls, you know, and there's like, there's a lot of, there's just a lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was peak 90s pop. It was literally...

What a time! I mean, it was. Don't get me wrong. I'm not, I'm not, I really wanted to get across Brian in the book that this is not a pity party woe is me, you know, I... I don't think it comes off as one. OK, good. You know, because it's for the reader to decide what may not be right or wrong, I suppose. So there's no flowery kind of earnest looking back and maybe that shouldn't have happened. It's like I want the reader to be sat with me, like experiencing it as you experienced it. Yeah, sat with me at the bits next to me where I've just been given a pink ecstasy

tablet and it kicks in when the Spice Girls come on. But I've got a cover for Smash It's shoot the next morning. I'm trying to, you know, and then I want them to be with me when I'm at the job center 10 years later and I'm drinking wine in the M&S food hall toilets. And I want them to be with me when I'm, you know, in Hollywood trying to make it and come back with a suntan and a dodgy transatlantic accent. You know, there's all these peaks and troughs, but to get to your point, I'm very,

the fact that I'm still here, I am very lucky. And it's not lost on me, you know, and statistics say that I should either be, well, drunk, high or dead right now, right? So the counsellor sat us down and I think there was 12 of us in the group, you know, the morning, the group sessions where you're a little bit like twisted and trying to detox and like, you know, someone's coming off heroin and someone's, you know, I mean, the last detox I had was just brutal. Like I never want to go through that again. Just brutal. But the counselor said, three of you will die. Do it. And we were like, no way. You know, he was just, he was, it was a bit of tough love and all of those people are no longer here.

Really? Yeah. And not the ones I expected. They just took the foot off the gas. They dabbled a little bit there. They maybe started doing a bit of this or that. And it's like, wow. Yeah. It's just and I have to remember that I have to keep it has to come first. This is a byproduct of all this stuff. You know, I don't know anything for years,

and I've been able to, and this is the first thing that I've done, and it seems to be, well, I've written a book, and that's a miracle in itself. Well, it is a miracle, but it is also, I think it's not just, the miracle isn't just that you've survived addiction, but also that you survived this industry that sort of chews you up and spat you back out again, you know.

And I wanted to talk a bit about that time as it kind of closeted gay, you know, and the whole and the whole kind of thing. And I know this because I fell for it, Kav. I fell for it. I thought we were going to get married and... Well, you know, strange things have happened just for today. But the, you know, you were marketed as, you know, it's this, you know, heartthrob for teenage girls. Right. And so you're literally living a lie. Do you know what I mean? And

you're like, my entire career rests on me being something I'm not. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's like fucking hard. I was very good at just putting a lid on it. You know, I wanted it so much and I felt so grateful that it was happening. But I had to be quite militant because I was never in a boy band and I couldn't rely on the tough one or the funny one or the other. You know, like in a boy band you have different members that might, then I may have been the more sensitive secretly gay one that could have just hit, but I had to be all...

Those things. I thought I did anyway, you know, yeah. I mean, so I just put a lid on it and it would be, you know, and I'd be on tour or be in Italy or wherever and, you know, there's these beautiful girls waiting in the lobby and the tour manager, you know, one of the guys, whoever was looking after me that day would say, you know, just let me know if you want me to, you know, have a little time with the many of, you know, really? Yeah. And I'd be like, um, I'm just going to go and have a club sandwich upstairs. Hang on. So that was a, I would chat to them and I loved them. You know what I mean? I wanted to be the friends I wanted to, I wanted them to come to my hotel room and chat, but

obviously I didn't obviously I couldn't have sex because I was secretly gay and I think they'd get pissed off with me because they didn't understand why I wasn't, you know, they'd get funny with me some of the fans, some of the girl fans because they didn't understand why I wasn't taking it to the next step. But I couldn't tell him. That's mad, isn't it? You know, like I know, we know it happens but like that thing of do you want me to sort out a few girls for you? I mean, it was, it was more like, you know, like, oh, isn't she's beautiful. And I mean,

and do you know, let me know if you've got your eye on anyone. And I couldn't, you know, bring them up to me. It wasn't, I mean, I'm making it sound more seedy than it actually was. But it obviously wasn't seedy at all in the end because you weren't interested. I was upstairs eating pasta in my room watching weird Italian porn, straight porn on the pay-per-view. Straight porn? Well that's all we had in them days. Yeah okay right. I think that's all we have anyway on pay-per-view. It is really interesting, this kind of, there's this really kind of heartbreaking, but also very tender moment where you kind of connect with another pop star. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Right, hands up if your house turns into a whirlwind of chaos the minute the kids break up for the summer. Well, same here, but I've got good news. Asda and George have literally everything you need to get summer sorted all in one place. That's something worth celebrating. From family picnic essentials to barbecue faves and summer outfits for those rare but glorious sunny days, Asda and George have got you covered. And with thousands of prices rolling back

across the store and online, now is the perfect time to stock up for summer. Whether you're prepping for school holidays or just making sure your cupboards are full, Asda and George are your one-stop shop. Thousands of prices rolling back across the store and online now. That's good honest value. That's as the price. Stephen Gately in Boyzone. Yeah. Who you know, it's like you guys know you can sort of sniff each other out. Yeah. Like, oh, he's like me. And you become quite close. Yeah. I mean, you know, it wasn't, don't get me wrong, it wasn't the love affair of the century. I mean, we, it can be quite lonely when you're on tour with, with the majority are all straight,

you know, and, and, and, so yeah, so I was on tour with Byzone and yeah, and we just, we just connected, we just, we, and we found kind of, I suppose, solace in each other. Stephen wasn't out at this point, or should I say he wasn't outed at this point, which is just awful. So, but that, that is also, that threat of being outed was always there in the background, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. But I was never guided whether they didn't know. I mean, obviously the manager knew, but nobody else knew that or asked if I was gay. So I was kind of guiding my own guiding it myself. But yeah, we did. And I write about it. I hope I've written it in a in a

in the tender way that it was because it was very innocent and it was just the two of us. And you know, we it was difficult to make it work. And obviously he went on to find true love and for, you know, much, much longer relationships. You know, when you're on tour and stuff, it's very difficult. But yeah, it was, we did, we did, we did have a little thing in it and it was lovely to, and it was nice to get those flirty feelings, you know, like when you're on tour or to look forward to seeing someone that you knew you could have this little time together. But there's also this kind of sweetness where like the other, some of the other straight pop stars sort of like, you know, like Ronan sort of go, like, they're like almost, they're encouraging it. They're like, go and beat, go and do you.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it, if there was encouraging it, but I mean, there's a chapter in the book where I talk about, you know, when I'm doing drugs in the toilet and I get a nosebleed and Ronan says to me, you know, I think he says, oh, you're bleeding, you know, we sat in the Jor-is-in of all places, like this nice cozy Jor-is-in somewhere, I think it was Birmingham, and it's after the show and I'm chatting to Ronan, who was a lovely guy, And he said, Oh, you know, have you bleed it? Anyway, I ran to the toilet and I didn't call it was just a nightmare. And then I think I said a bit my lip. Um, because obviously that's why your nose would bleed if you bite your lip.

But he, I think he saw that and I was embarrassed because I thought, you know, these guys might know that me and Stephen have got to know each other maybe on more of a personal level and I felt quite embarrassed. But no, he, I do remember him. It was like, I think it was an unspoken thing of, you know, like let them kind of have their time. And it was sad really, because when the tour finished, it felt like a bit, you have these seasons, don't you, where you spend all this time together with people and then it goes and then you're off onto the next thing. Which is why I think, but it was just so sad what happened with Stephen. But yeah, it was, it was an innocent time, but it was a special one. It was definitely, it helped me for sure. And it was nice to be able to

talk to someone else about our secret. It seems strange now, doesn't it? Thinking about people having to hide their sexuality. But actually probably it still is, you know, it's probably still is an issue for lots of people, I imagine. Yeah, I think, I think so. I mean, I've been out of the industry for years, you know, so I don't know how it is these days, but it's a lot better than what it was. Absolutely. But there will be still people that are, you know, closeted or I can't say footballers or actors or you know because I suppose if that's your... why rock the boat if you're being so successful

as how people think you are? I suppose when you've got big managers or agents or there's money coming in why would you ruin that? So you're sort of, you're enjoying a lot of success, but it's sort of, is always, of the real sense I got was that it's always, you always feel like it's just about to go. Good, I'm glad you got that, because that's how it did feel for me. Yeah, I mean, I suppose that was how it was. You know, that's kind of how it is in these industries. I mean, and there was always that like, your next single better do this. Otherwise that.

Yes. Yeah. All of your validation. And I think this is what really comes across in it and it feels and I felt it and I think it's relevant to anyone really who has a very fragile sense of self-esteem and who uses work or their career to sort of like bolster themselves up which I think is a really common thing in your like teens and 20s when you don't quite know who you are yeah and so your identity is like, if I'm good at this thing, then I'm a success, then I'm a good person. And like, it's really clear in Pop Scars that all of your self-esteem was built on being a pop star.

Absolutely. All of it. And so when that goes, which it does, you are fucked. Yep. Literally. But I've had to find a way of finding self-esteem and not based on external validation because I do believe, if they say scientifically, that if you get fame at a certain age, you stay at the age that you stay at that age. Now it's all relative. I didn't have the fame of some people, but I know the feelings. It's still the same feelings I was chasing as the guy who sold 10 million records, you know? Yeah. So once that goes, and that's why I wanted to write the book because look, I'm under

no illusion that I'm famous enough to write an autobiography. So let's just get that out of the way. Well, I've read memoirs, right? And even, I even cringe using the word memoir because I got written a memoir, you know, I really like Ernest Hemingway, my little, you know, bed-sit writer. Well, hang on, can we just pause for a moment? Because I don't know how many people know this, but you, you know, like this is you're taking this very fucking seriously. Yeah, you did.

Can I? Yeah, you did. Like a serious writing course. Yeah, it's quite hard to get onto, isn't it? I think so. Yeah, because I couldn't get my head around how can I write a book if I'm not famous enough? And I thought, you know what, you're your own worst enemy here because you've read books of people that aren't famous or that have inspired you or that have made you laugh.

This is so interesting though because still it's so like even after all this time it's like there is that sense that you think that your only worth to the world is fame. Yeah. And it's something that I try and work on. I mean, it's not a criticism. I think it's deeply relatable for a lot of people where it's like, if I can be this thing, then everything can be okay. And the constant battle in life is to prove that actually you are okay regardless of that thing. Yeah. And that's the battle of my life.

Right. That's the battle of your life. And I'm sure that's the battle of many people listening or tuning in, who that thing might be as long as I have, I can pay the mortgage as long as I can, you know, I don't know, like as long as I have kids, as long as I'm a size 10, as long as I can, you know, I don't know, like as long as I have kids, as long as I'm a size 10, as long as I'm, you know, like, do you know what I mean? These things that we cling to in life, doesn't it could be fame, it could be anything, you know, it could be,

you know, as long as I am able to drink, as long as I am able to do, I don't know. Anyway, so I'm not criticizing you. No, no, but I'm glad you said that. So, back to the course, so I did this course and the tutor, Christy Watson, who was like a number one bestselling author. Amazing woman. She said, you know, this is about the pursuit of fame and addiction. She said, amazing woman. She said, this is about the pursuit of fame and addiction. She said, it's a different, there's more to this. She said, see it, write the kitchen sink stuff, go to those places that you've never been before, write the stuff that might be relatable,

write the stuff that you might think might be too much. And that's flipped it on its head. And that's when I started to really get, I've probably overshared in parts, I mean, I don't know, but that's when I started to really enjoy it. The quote unquote oversharing is what makes this book special because you know, you have been so honest about where you ended up and where you ended up was, you know, smoking crack and a skip homeless. Literally. That's where the last drink took me.

Yeah. I mean, like this is not, you know, you don't fuck around, you don't fuck around in a, how dark it got. And I wondered if we could just kind of talk about that and how, you know, you go from living in LA and, you know, auditioning for things to, you know, just it's like, I think for me, reading the book and then also like meeting you, I put people on pedestals, you know, I have this thing where like in my teen years you were this pop star I loved, do you know

what I mean? And then I remember you got in touch with me and then we got to know each other, I was like, oh my god, all along he was just like me. These are the stories that I love and I cherish and I think are really important to people because we do put people on pedal stools and you've been really unflinching in sort of saying, but this is what it was like. This is what it's really like. And this is where we can all go if we don't, you know, if we don't have the love and support and help that we need in life. Do you know what I mean? Like I didn't smoke crack in a skip, but I, some other pretty dark places. Do you know what I mean? And I think it is that, that ability to be really unflinching and really honest is, it makes me feel closer. Do you know what I mean? It makes me feel more connected with people.

And that's, that's what helps, right? That's what helps people like me for sure. When I hear someone, I mean, also you know this yourself, but I've spent the last God knows how many years in rooms of people just like me sharing much darker stories. So it becomes normal. It becomes normal. And we don't do it to say, Oh, I've got, you know, I sunk lower than you. It's not about that. We know there's, there's power and vulnerability and that's, you know, again, a, I've got, you know, I sunk lower than you. It's not about that. We know there's power and vulnerability and that's, you know, again, a bit of a cliche, but it's

quite freeing. And yeah, that, you know, it's like how many rock bottoms, well, we know what the last rock bottom is, right? Yeah. And that was one of the... I mean, listen, I'll be honest with you, in the moment, life was good of me sat in a skip smoking crack with a complete stranger, playing her my pop videos on YouTube on my phone, by the way. That's the absolute insanity, you know? But that all started. It starts with a drink and it ends with a drink. I would never have done that had I not had a drink in me. Had I not had a few. And you know, there's many things we can blame it on. Many things I can blame it on.

My sister died, my father died, my mom's got Alzheimer's. I ended up homeless. All this stuff. But I believe that regardless of that, I'd still have this condition. But the good news is once you get the help and and admit you defeated, right, I had to admit I was defeated. I can't do this on my own. That's it. I can't do it on my own. And that it. I can't do it on my own. And that was the, like you said, the jumping off point where it was like a little bit of

light got in and then a bit more light. And then it's that. And then one day turns into two and just this time it's stuck. But I wanted to share that stuff because I know how it helps me when I hear that story. Mm-hmm. You feel like, I remember when I first came in to recovery into sobriety, there was this, there's this whole thing where, you know, often in these meetings you hear, oh, we don't want to hear about the war stories, we've all got them. And when I came in, all I wanted to hear was the war stories because I couldn't believe that there were other people out there who had sunk as low as I had, you know, who had ended up in situations, you know, like my equivalent of the skip, you know, waking up

in a field with a man who's not my husband, do you know what I mean? Like, you know, taking drugs, doing stuff that just is, you know, sitting here, like, I feel quite emotional talking to you about it because it is amazing. It's amazing that we're here and it's amazing that we're okay and we're safe and we're sober. Most of all, we're fucking sober. Like, wow. I know, right? and we're safe and we're sober. Most of all, we're fucking sober. Like, wow. I know, right? I mean, and like what you said, Brian, I think once it helps with the shame,

right? Because I carried a lot of shame and a lot of guilt for years. And I'm not saying it's gone, but I can deal with it better. Do you find that you can use the shame to keep you safe and sober now in a way? Like it becomes, it's that thing of like, we don't regret the past or wish to shut the door on it. Is that one of the same? Yeah, we don't, we don't regret the past or shut the door on it. It doesn't mean I'm not sorry for my past. Like I've made amends. I've had people come back in my life or reach out to me that I never thought I'd hear from again. We go to meetings and we do some things every morning I get up, I pray to a God I don't really understand, but I know that it's not me because my thinking got me in a skip, right?

Yeah, but this is the thing. I'm going off radar, ain't I? No, no, but I also think that's really important. I mean, like it's it is that thing of like, I know that what kept me out of of 12 step programs for ages was I was like, it's about God, it's religious, you know, all of these things that my alcoholism would basically take to keep me keep me drunk. And actually, as you say, there, the word God can stand for anything, group of drunks, good or great outdoors. And, you know, it started in the thirties. There was no, they say you don't mention it in present TV. Look, if me slightly being a bit controversial by talking about it helps somebody save their life, then, and I get DMs from people that, you know, I sometimes say reach out if you're

struggling. Obviously you can't always reply all the time, but I do when I can. And I just tell them what works for me. But I also understand it is not for everyone. It's not for everyone. There are other ways to get sober. I think all that matters is, you don't, if you, you know, all that matters, it doesn't matter what way you do it, as long as you get safe and sober. That's where I've come to think about it. If it's working for people, great. Absolutely. Okay, so let's go back to the skip, smoking crack. I mean, obviously things are pretty

bad if you're in a skip smoking crack. I'm not saying that that was a good, but I was about to say, things got pretty bad, things got bad enough that you were also drinking aftershave. That was one of my highlights, juke, never again. So my friend, after I'd moved back from LA and I was not in a great place, my dear friend who used to be my stylist back in the day knew I was in trouble and he said, look, I'm going to fly you to my house in L.A.

And you're going to stay with me and I'm going to you're going to go to some of these meetings. This is the first time I've ever experienced a meetings. So, of course, I got completely trashed and drunk and off my head on the plane and I arrived in an absolute stay and did this big grateful speech of, oh thank you so much and you know, this is it for me, this is it, you know, you know the usual on your knees, oh I'm going to get this,. Look at me. I woke up the next morning. It was Easter Sunday Day of resurrection. It was just like l razor I was just you know, the worst, you know when you get those well, we know it's like they're just just dying

I was literally dying and he said we're going to the meeting. It was Easter Sunday I'm gonna take you to drive you down to this meeting, it was boiling hot and at this point I knew that it was, I was starting to get the DTs, that those really bad shakes, you know, when you, nothing's going to fix it apart from another drink or some, or an intravenous valium or something to, you know, to stop. And I was in a terrible state and I became that guy that you see in the films or you read about that drank aftershave. I remember looking through his cabinet and I think he had some antihistamines and I was like, that's not going to touch the sides.

And he had dupe aftershave at the back. And I just looked at it and I remember looking at my face in the mirror and thinking, wow. And that did even that didn't stop me. I mean, you also talk about that sort of you had this routine when you were back in the UK and at one point where you would go to Costa Coffee and get a cup of coffee that you would then immediately empty so you could fill it with alcohol, but you would then sort of blow on it to make it look like you were drinking a coffee. Like all of these masks you were putting on. All these little tricks that that's where it took me.

And at that point it was medicinal. It wasn't you know I it wasn't like oh I'm gonna get drunk today and have fun. It was like I need this as I need this as important to me as oxygen to be able to function. It's wild how it can get a grip like that. And you can we talk about the detoxes because I because that is you mentioned that earlier and how you never want to have to go through those ever again. Yeah. So I kind of, I wanted to ask you what the jumping off point was and why you decided enough was enough. But I also know as an alcoholic that that question is impossible to answer. And if we knew if we knew what it was that led to someone finally

finding sobriety, we would bottle it up and we would put it somewhere so that everyone could access it and who knows why this time it sticks. Right. You know because as you said you have a history of chronic relapse and that's very relatable for a lot of people. Yeah. You know like why can't I get it? Yeah. Why can't I get it? Because you're an alcoholic. Yeah. Yeah. And only without alienating anyone that's listening that isn't the only person that really can understand that is another alcoholic. I think that understands that blind spot that doesn't. And I don't want that to sound like an excuse, but literally, I mean, I'll be honest with you, Brian. I was in town last night in town in central London and I walked past Evita, right?

And suddenly out of nowhere, I had the thought, bearing in mind I'm doing this this morning, right? I'm doing this interview with you and I'm going to be showing my face and speaking and hopefully, you know, I have to be on form, right? And I looked at the Evita sign, theater, glamour, dillada. And I immediately thought, oh, could I have a drink? I was like, wow. Now the difference today is I don't act on it,

but it's still there. And I acted on it for years and years, you see. It'll be different this time. But it's important to call it out, because I think lots of people think there's this sort of thing where you stop drinking and then it's like, oh yeah, it never comes into my head again. And of course it does. And also like, oh, so they've got these feelings now that I've poured this medicine on for

years and now I'm feeling everything, the good, the bad, the ugly and this thinking, like I don't have a drinking problem, but my thinking can be fucking... It's quite frightening, isn't it, to discover that actually alcohol wasn't the problem, it was the solution. Yeah. Until it became a problem in itself. I am just a basic boring alcoholic that basically can't drink, you know. But I now get access to this new life if I, a day at a time, help someone else or take

certain steps. I feel like this book is like doing service. I hope so. And a lot of people were like, oh, good writer, not famous enough, not interested. And then obviously I had to keep going and go, no, no, you're not getting it. Like I'm going to keep writing it. I'm going to double down on this. It's not just about fame.

It's what happens after fame. And most importantly, it's an addiction memoir, right? That's what it is. And then it fell into the right hands. And then here we are. Just can we talk about the detoxes? Just, you know, you mentioned how the detoxes? You mentioned how the detox was something you never want to go through again.

Could you just talk us through what it's like for people that don't understand the physical trouble that some alcoholics can have coming off alcohol? Not all, because there are alcoholics like me who have been drinkers, so I wasn't a daytime drinker, except when I was still up from the night before. Right. But anyway, so talk to us what it's like to go through a detox. It's just a horrific experience for me. It was a horrific experience. They had to give me Librium, that didn't touch the side. So it was three nights of just absolute night sweats, shaking, dry heaving, seeing things like hallucinating.

And yeah, I just never want to go back to that again. Even the drugs didn't touch the sides. And that's not me saying, oh, look how much I drank. I think my system was so fucked that it just shut down and it had had enough, you know, and it scared me actually. It scared me into it. But I still had the thought to have a drink last night, but I didn't act on it, right? So that's why I need to be vigilant, be careful of people and places and things and just kind of put this first. Is this book in a way your way of putting it first? You've put everything out there and it's like

you can't like once everyone knows this stuff. stuff. Yeah, well, I almost feel like I'd rather them know the real me than an idea that, I mean, look, there'll be a lot of people that don't even know who I am, you know, like that's why it was important just to put my full name rather than just Kavanagh, you know, but it would be nice for the everyman to go into the shop and the bookshop however and this maybe he can relate to it too because although it is about the fame it is much more about the addiction side but yeah I mean I realize now everything hasn't happened to me it's happened for me and that's sounds like quite a corny sound bite but I do believe it to be true because it's led me to do this and I can say well I've written a book now and hopefully it entertains

and maybe inspires some people, you know? Definitely inspired me. Well done, Kav. Thank you. Well done, Anthony. Thank you, Brian E. I don't want to sound patronizing, I don't want to sound patronising, but I am so proud of Cav. There's a saying in recovery that shame dies when you expose it to the light. And today with this episode, I think

how will have helped quite a few people do just that. I'm so grateful for his honesty and the bravery he's shown by coming in and talking about this stuff with me. And as for you wonderful listeners, I want to give you a quick reminder to follow and subscribe. But most importantly, look after yourself. I'll see you next time. This episode of The Life of Briny is sponsored by Asda, with thousands of prices rolling back across the store and online. That's good honest value. That's Asda Price.