The Life Of Bryony - How To Start Running (And Actually Enjoy It) with Emma Kirk-Odunubi

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

I sprinted (okay, jogged) into the studio this week because I knew this conversation would change how you think about running. My guest is performance coach and running legend Emma Kirk‑Odunubi, whose new book Find Your Pace is the gentle, funny, no‑nonsense guide I wish I’d had when I first stumbled out in leopard‑print Converse and a Tommy Tippee cup.​ We talk about how Emma found running in the depths of grief after losing her dad, and how moving her body helped her mind when nothing else worked. She explains why “just showing up is where the magic happens”, why walking breaks don’t make you any less of a runner, and how her “FETCH” method and chunking tricks make running feel doable, even if you’re a very busy, very tired human. Whether your goal is 10 minutes alone, a first parkrun or a marathon, this episode will get you lacing up. BOOKS DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODEEmma’s book, Find Your Pace, is available from 5th February 2026.WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOUGot something to share? Message us on @lifeofbryonypod on Instagram.If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need it – it really helps! Bryony xxCREDITS:Host: Bryony GordonGuest: Emma Kirk-OdunubiProducer: Laura Elwood-CraigAssistant Producer: Sam RhodesStudio Manager: Sam ChisholmEditor: Luke ShelleyExec Producer: Jamie East  A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, lovely lobsters. I sprinted to the life of Briney Studio this week. Okay, I slowly jogged. But what matters is that I did it. And this week's guest is here to give you absolutely everything you need to know to get started on your running journey. And if you're already on it and struggling to get in the flow, Emma Kirk, Odenoobie is a performance coach and running legend who's going to help you fall in love with my favorite form of movement. The biggest idea is literally don't run before you can walk. A lot of people go out the door and they run and they think about like running for the bus. That is not the intensity we want to go. Just because you walk when you're a runner doesn't mean you're not a runner. My chat with Emma coming up right after this.

I've got you in today because you've written a fantastic book about running, find your pace. And you are just a really cool expert. in running. So this is an episode for anyone. And I think, because there are a lot of people that message me and they are like, how did you get run? How did you get into running? How do I start? And as you say in the book, it's starting that is actually the hardest bit, right? So today, Emma is going to give you sort of tips on how to fall in love with running, to make it work for you. And I wanted to start off by saying, because you frame the book, it's, you frame the book.

about your journey to running. And you, you know, you make the point that people usually get into running, it often comes from quite a dark place. And so I thought anyone thinking right now, oh, I'm not fit enough, I'm not fast enough, I'm not together enough. I was thinking about it in a way, the bigger the mess you are, the better you're going to be at running. Genuinely.

Genuinely, when you actually really think about it, that is it. is I found running ultimately by trying to run away from my mind. Yeah. Like, I ran it away when my mind was in its deepest, darkest point. So, yeah, you don't have to have it all together. No. If anything, it's almost probably better.

Better if you. Yeah. So, I mean, you've always been very kind of into movement, but you came to running in grief, essentially. Yes. How do you feel talking about, I mean, do you want, are you open? Yeah. Yeah.

Any question you've got. Okay. I'm here for it. So your dad basically was diagnosed with quite a rare brain tumour. Yes. So I was only 19 years old. And I was heading to university that year. So I found out when I was 18.

And then from his diagnosis in the July, he then died in the February. So it was very quick. Really quick. And, you know, it was an 18 year old. I was going off to university. my first year, I was excited to be afresher, do all these different things. But in the back of my mind, I was like, every time I try to go home, what am I going to see? What does that look like?

And yeah, so he had a stage four glioblastoma, which even to this day now, and we're 12, 13 years down the line is a cancer. They really struggle to have any sort of cure from. So I knew back then, because I had Google, sadly, and positively, I guess, is, there wasn't much of a cure. So for me, during university, the whole time was, I always called it my, so I went to Brunel in West London, and I always called it my Brunel bubble. Because when I was at university,

I didn't really think about being in the outside world. And it meant that instead of dealing with your emotions, when you're a late teen, I just locked them away and didn't even contemplate what was going on and what was happening, which meant for some interesting choices, whilst I was at university drinking and all the other things interlinked. But yeah, I fully hit that grief point after I left uni.

So my dad died when I was 19, so in that first year. And then I don't think I really felt super consumed by that grief feeling until I had to stop. Yeah. And I left the uni bubble and I had to go into the world of work. And I was like, oh, I'm fine, into the world of work. And I moved in, she was a lovely woman, moved into this woman's house so that I could rent a room to stay in London and I basically just got consumed, like enveloped like it was a blanket around me. And yeah, it was a downward spiral.

I didn't eat very well. I had a fridge in my room and I just used that for milk and I ate cereal for breakfast, lunch, luncheon dinner for a while. So you were sort of in, you were, you were literally locked in that one room and your heads inside the room. Yes. Which is, which is, you know, I think probably quite related. to a lot of people. I mean, we've, we can all go to places like that. What was the kind of point where you were like, I need to come out of the room and with my fridge and my cereal and perhaps explore the wider world? And because there's a moving bit in the book where you talk about going back to where your dad, is it your childhood home? Yes. And sort of you, did you run there?

So when I went back was after the time when I went back to that place, actually after the funeral. At that point, I didn't know what would help me. But I thought if I run to the front door of our old of his old flat, that might make a difference. That might make me, I don't know, feel connected. Yeah. In some way. Of course. And yeah, it was a, even to this day when I go back to Brighton, I'm like, oh, should I just go and look at

door. I can it's one of those things where people anticipate 12 years down the line that you're absolutely fine and you should be able to just go and see it and be fine and it not consume you, but it's yeah, still very, very relevant and in the forefront of my mind for sure. But grief isn't, grief isn't, this is the interesting thing, isn't it? Grief isn't like depression, is it? There's not an end point to grief, you know, and nor should there be, right? Yeah. Because it's, it's like, We, in a way, and we did an episode about this a few weeks ago with Dr. Alex George, in a way, and he spoke about how society wants you to just keep it down, keep it down, get over it. And you shouldn't get over the death of someone you love. You know, it's about honouring it and making space for it and so that your life moves around the grief. Yeah. And that was where running was so powerful because it allowed me to almost move through my thoughts. Yeah. So you were stuck in the, you were stuck there. but it allowed you to move around the thoughts.

Exactly. But the more I speak about it out loud, the more I think we're not taught how to deal with grief. No. Which is wild because it happens, it will happen to everyone. To everyone. I mean, it's literally the only thing that is for sure that's going to happen to all of us. So it's universal.

So it's just when you're a 20-something and you're like, well, I'm supposed to be X, Y and Z. At the time I worked at Nike, the big one in Oxford Circus. And I was like, well, Nike town. Nighttown. Yeah, which was an amazing hub of place. And like I still got friends from that time. Oh, night town top shop.

Yeah. It was a place to be. It was the place to be. And it was like DJs on the weekend. And we were like vibing. And like I would have an amazing time there. And this was during the time when I was really struggling with grief. But I always put on what I call the cape.

And you put the cape on and you're a completely different person. Yeah. And you're like that outgoing. No one would know anything's wrong. And then I'd get on. the tube, I get back into my room, the cape will come off as I literally took off my jacket and I made back in my own head. And it was that juxtaposition of being so happy, bubbly, buzzing that those people, until they read the book, would have no idea of what I was then struggling with

and trying to deal within my own head away from that space. So I didn't understand that like it wasn't great to compartmentalize like that because I didn't, I didn't know. So it was the whole learning process of learning about myself, but also learning like what grief actually is. And then I mentioned as well in there that I didn't speak to my mum about it because I was like, well, I don't want her to see that I'm struggling. You don't want to upset her. I don't upset her. So I'm not going to say that, yeah, I'm fine.

Everything's going great. I'm working. I'm doing this. But she didn't know the butt part. So running became. So this is, you know, what's really interesting, Emma, if I was reading the book and And I hear this so often people tell me that running is often it's a way to, some people do it for physical health to like make themselves healthier.

Some people, you know, we've got to admit, might do it to lose weight or whatever. You know, people do it for all sorts of different reasons. But actually for a lot of people I speak to and certainly for me, right, running as you say has been a way to make sense of the stuff around you but also it's a way to kind of almost regulate the nervous system you know yeah completely agree because it's even to this day now like my partner or should say my fiance she she will congratulations um she will know when i need to go for a run and so it's something i'll be saying saying something or I'll be talking about work or something like that.

And she'd be like, Emma, you need to go for a run. She was like, you're just, you're, there's too many things, buzz and you need to go for a run. Like, you'll figure it out. It settles down, doesn't it? Yeah. She's like, just go and run. You need to. You're too agitated.

You're too, I can sense it. Go. Just go and do it. I run here this morning, Emma. Love that. But, you know, Monday, I don't know about you, but, and people listening at home, Mondays are like, ah, the terror of the week, the terror of the week. And I got here, I just got up.

I ran. But I felt like just, okay, we can deal with this now, you know, and it makes sense of stuff. And so going back to what it helped you, I mean, because it helped you with the grief, but also you talk about your fiancé Claire and you talk in the book about how finding, like, community and running has also helped you to find out who you are to understand that you're bisexual. So that starting point of running to your dad's door has opened up. up this whole world. It's not just about heart health or waist circumference or BMI, you know?

It's like, it's literally opened the door to the world for you. Yeah. Sorry, I've got very carried away there. I love it. But it's so true. And I think it's where, you know, people like, and I, you know, you're allowed to be those people that hate running and those people that are like, oh, it's a runner. Like people, eye roll because they're like, oh, they're going to talk about this. But it genuinely, for me, created such like an ecosystem of me finding who I was. And I think that's because my, even though I do all these things where I'm a coach and I'm out here and I'm this, I'm actually quite introverted person.

So for me, when I get, I have too much going on, I retreat in just naturally. So in the running space, that ability to move forward, yes, but then also bring myself back to me and be able to self-regulate and, be able to self-regulate and go, okay, why are you thinking that? Okay, but what are the options

and this, that and the other? So on those runs where we chucked the watch off and... What? Yeah, we chucked the watch away and just go, cool, I just need to think, well, maybe I'll press it on and then I'll just turn it over and just run like that, maybe. The only way I can run as if I game of fire and I'm like, another 5K, another 5K in the box this month. There you go. My Apple Watch is going to be so happy with me. But so on those runs, you're untangling your thoughts, right? So you're doing all of that.

You're making sense of the world. But also the point you make about running is that it's not just exercise. It's also time. So for you, running sort of started to slowly create structure in your life. Yeah. It was the thing that literally made me go, okay, well, if I run, then I need to eat because I need to support that idea that I've just run. Because my background was sports science.

I had a very, I've got a very like scientific brain. So if I do one thing, that means that I need to do that thing to make that other thing have worked. So if I've run and I want to get the benefits of running and support my body from what I've done, okay,

well, the key things I need to do is I need to eat better. You can't just eat cereal. No. It's something people don't talk about often because I think often people think, because we are so conditioned to think of exercise as a weight loss tool,

right? as a way to make our waist smaller as opposed to our lives bigger, right? People often assume that it comes with this like restrictive diet or whatever. And my experience of running has been exactly like yours, Emma, which is that it has really regulated my relationship with food because you have to fuel properly. Absolutely. Because you really notice it.

If you haven't eaten properly, that run is going to be fucking hell, right? And you can notice, I notice the difference when I've had like even just a sorreen and a banana before I start the run. And if I go out with nothing, you know, like fuck fasting, fuck fasted exercise. This is not, no, let's not go there, girls. And so it is. And then afterwards you have to refuel and you have to really think about your body in terms of nourishing it as opposed to like punishing it for some sort of end goal. Exactly. And then with that, it's.

it then means, well, I say at that point for me, it got me out cereal. It got me to, got me off cereal. Literally got me off cereal. It was me, myself, and I end the box of bran flakes, right? It was not, it was not the one. Oh, not. You didn't even like, it wasn't even like lucky charms. No, it wasn't even tasty.

It was like cardboard. It was not the one. Yeah, it was a really bad time. I feel really sad for that version of Emma in her little room with her little mini fridge. Yeah, it was not a good time. But I think, as you said, it, it. it added that layer and the irony was people, like I look back now and like, how did I not get into it earlier? Because I've been working at Nike at this point for like two years and I literally sold people running shoes and talked to them about running and how, you know, all the different things.

But I just hadn't made that time for myself to think of it as a possibility for me because I'd always been known as, you know, I used to throw discis and shot put in athletics. And that was what I was known for or been in the gym and lifted weights or I was, you know, like, like a cardio bunny. I do like boxing classes and all these other things. And I'd never thought of myself as running being my thing. So I was just, yeah, no, it's not for me. And then it just added structure, it added community. I met some of the most incredible people that even to this day I'm still friends with like because of running. And it's, yeah, it's rounded life as it were and it was very much not rounded. It was pointed.

You're living. It was not rounded. It was pointed. So if there's anyone listening and they're like, okay, well, this is great. I know that running is good for me. I know that it's going to make me feel good and I know it's going to help me, right? So we know all of this. But how do we start?

Because as you say, starting is the hardest bit of running. It's not the burn on your lungs. It's not the, you know, it's not, it's not the taking it up from 5K to 10K or whatever. It's literally hauling my ass out of bed and tying the shoelaces and just start pressing start on the watch and going. So anyone listening, let's get, can we go into it? Because this book is full of absolutely banging practical tips that, that genuinely will help make running feel easier. Yeah. And the biggest idea is, I think the overarching one I always like to say is literally don't run before you can walk. Use that phrase. Yeah. So like use that phrase in that, I don't need you to go three to one start and run nonstop for 10 minutes. Okay. I love this because I think often people that haven't started running, the reason they haven't started is because they think they can't do it. Because they think they're going to have to run continuously. Because they think they're going to have to run continuously at a certain pace.

And you hear Emma, you're here to tell us no. You can run and stop. Absolutely. That's the best way you're going to get better at run. You can run and stop for cake. Facts. Coffee. Yep.

Baked goods. Okay. So I also just want to make clear that Emma, you have worked with thousands of people getting them up and out. So this advice that Emma is giving, it really does work. Okay? So you start by stopping. Literally. Okay.

So talk us through this. So I would say, think about a timeframe you have in your day, firstly. People always struggle with time. If you're like, I've literally got 10 minutes. Okay, great. Put on your shoes. Of course, I'd love them to be trainers. But at the start, something that looks like an active shoe.

Can I tell my story about the first time? I went running. Yeah. So it was like you, I was, I was, I was, I was not physical pain. I was in mental pain. I was in deep, a really dark period of obsessive compulsive disorder. And I knew I just was like, I need to do something. I need to make, I need to make myself feel different to this.

And I put on, I put on a pair of converse, leopard print converse that had holes in them. I put on a pair of my husband's tracksuit bottoms, a Star Wars T-shirt, also my husband's. Love. Two bras. And then I was like, I'm going to have to take water with me because I will die if I don't have water. But I didn't have, this was like a long, this was like 12 years ago, right? So it was like before everyone had water bottles.

So I had to take my daughter's Tommy Tippy Sippy Cup. Brilliant. It was orange. And that was how I started. And I literally went round the block twice. Yeah. And I, for that period of time, what was amazing was I, and I stopped and I started. But what was amazing was that I had to just focus on staying alive.

You know, I had to focus on my breathing. I got out of my head and into my body in the best way possible. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, just if that's of interest to anyone. So you don't have to have the super expensive trainers. Absolutely not. Anything vaguely active. Yeah, anything vaguely active.

And then when you're going out for that first time, don't sprint when you go and run. So a lot of people go out the door and they run. And they think about like running for the bus. And they run at that pace. Yeah. I still run for the bus and I'm exhausted from a 10 second run. That is not the intensity we want to go.

think about running for the bus being 10 out of 10 effort. I want you to start into a light trot that looks like a run that feels like a 4 or 5 out of 10. Yeah. Now your body's not going to be used to it, so it probably will feel close to a 10 out of 10. But all you're going to do, you're not even going to get, look at pace or anything on the watch. You're going to get your phone and you're going to start a stop watch. Okay. Great goal to run for a minute.

It doesn't have to be max effort. Just run for a minute. As soon as you hit that minute, stop and walk. Now, you can stop and walk for three minutes. You can stop and walk for five minutes. You've got different plans that will say different things. Walk until you feel like you're getting a bit of your breath back. Do that again three, four times, maybe up to your 10 minutes that you kind of put aside for it.

And that's enough. Right. You've just run. Yeah. Oh, my God. I love this. Yeah. It's as simple as that.

You just literally have to do that once or twice? Yeah. So within the book, you've probably seen there's like a 10 week plan for literally starting. Yeah. Going from the start. And I say within that, sure, it's a 10 week plan, I don't mind if you'll do it for 20 weeks. Repeat each week three times. You have to just be comfortable as you progress.

And of course, progress isn't always comfortable, as I say that. But there's no one's right in the rule book that you have to do that 5K by this point, unless you've put something in the diary to say it must be this point. But guess what? benchmarks can move. Dates can move. So sure, there's eight week plans, 10 week plans,

but if you repeat a week because life got in the way or actually building up from a minute to 90 seconds is actually a lot. I couldn't do that this week. Go back. Reset. You can do it. And just because you walk when you're a runner doesn't mean you're not a runner. I totally agree.

I, the last marathon I did, and it was a way actually of breaking down this ridiculous. length, this ridiculous distance, which is 42 kilometers, right? Sorry, 42.2. The extra point two. You feel that point two. And I was like every two kilometers, I'm going to stop and walk for a minute. Perfect.

And that's what I did, rinse and repeat. And what it did was it just gave me that moment to kind of just catch my breath, reset. but it also broke up the distance. And so I was like, oh, I've done that however many times. And you talk in the book about chunking. My favourite thing. Okay, because it sounds a bit of bleh. So talk to us about chunking and why chunking is going to be your best friend

when it comes to learning to run. Honestly, chunking to this day is like my favourite thing to do. So think about say a bar of chocolate. I do think about that quite a lot. All the time. So I'm just going to go classic chocolate bar. you've got five pieces in there. Yeah.

Think about that, let's say, as a 5K. Right. You're just going to go and think about within that 5K, there are 51Ks. So just think about the kilometer that you are in. Yeah. Once that kilometer's in, it's banked. Guess what?

We've then got 2K until you'll only have two more left. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I do all the time. And I chunk that down on everything, on everything. on everything. So, you know, yes, marathon distance. The other way that I chunk it down, instead of just looking at the numbers side,

is if I know my route really well, I go, okay, I know that that insane bakery is at 6K. Yeah. I also know, though, that there's a park where I can see dogs at like 3K. So in my head, I'm going to go, the dogs are a treat? Yeah, just to see dogs.

Yeah, I love dogs. Okay. So just like when I remember. run through a park and I'm like, oh, fuck you. And just get distracted by puppies and dogs everywhere. This run route sounds brilliant. So that's what I do in my head. I think about things along the way that are going to help me or that's going to allow me to

not think about the entirety of what I've got to do, but think about, okay, well, what's close that I'm going to get joy from? Oh, that's in only 3K. I can do that. Yeah. It's so interesting because I also have, there's a run I do. and there's just a bit of it on a bit of a road that I loathe. And I'm like, I hate this bit.

I hate this bit. And I'm like, why? Why? Like, stop thinking about this. You've done it a million times. But then when I get just beyond it to the traffic lights, I'm like, oh, I and the traffic lights take ages. I get to just stand at those traffic lights and watch the world go by and like, you know,

catch my breath. Love that. So that's the kind of, that's chunking in progress. So you can. It can kind of happen for multiple things, but I like to do it, like, I say benchmarks. So baked goods. I usually end at locations with baked goods. But even just thinking it along the way, or sometimes if I'm doing a long run,

manage to rope some friends in, I can go, okay, well, I know I'm meeting them at X amount of kilometres. So I can just run to this point. And have a baked good there. And have a baked goods. And then continue on towards the next baked good. Right. Just think of it in terms of baked goods. back. Me and the wonderful Dame Deborah James, the late Balba, we used to run from

the gales near my house to the gales near her house. And we just, it was wonderful. What a wonderful way to spend a Sunday morning. And that's it. And that's where, you know, we try to, I try to pull it away from people, you know, yes, people start running for all different reasons. Some of them, yeah, losing weight and things like that. But then I think we as a society get so focused on it having to be for a reason that is physical to our body. I also think that if you stop, your why, and you talk about this, your why is really important. And if you start running because, and the reason is a sort of punishing reason, you're not going to want to continue on because it's going to feel horrible each time.

It's like, I haven't done this. I haven't got to that point. Whereas if you start running because of the way it makes you feel, as opposed to the way it makes you look, you're just more likely to carry on wanting to do it. And then obviously there will be, like it or not, there will be a change to the way you look, do you know what I mean? So, you know, whether that's just the rude health in your cheeks. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And that's, it's finding that and the why is short in running, but generally is like having that intention behind something is what's going to get you up when motivation disappears. Okay, let's talk about Fetch. We love Fetch. Fetch is an acronym for the five crucial things that you need to do when you're running. So talk us through. F is for feet.

Feet are very helpful when it comes to running. They're the first thing that make contact with the ground. Yeah, so okay, so tell us in what way is feet, what are we thinking about? With feet, it's to do with, I think, overarchingly, when you hear the word running and do running, people think I'm going to get injured. Yeah. Having your feet land under you when you run. Yes.

Rather than out in front of you. Yeah. It's going to allow your body to spread force. Okay. When we can spread force better, less impact is going to go into our joints. And the areas that we classically hear, run as knees and all these things, it's one of the biggest points is where our feet make contact with the ground. Not necessarily like front of the foot, rear foot, aka on the heel.

but more about where in relation to where your body position is. Okay, so when we're running, we want our feet to be landing below us, not in front of us. So we often can think that we're doing big leaping strides. No, you basically think of running on the spot but still moving forward. Exactly. Think about running on the spot, but pushing the ground away behind you. Okay, amazing. And this is just good for, this is going to help us prevent injury because our form is better.

Our form is better. You're going to naturally run a little bit taller. because you're not trying to reach the ground in front of you. You're going to feel better. You're going to feel better because you're going to be running, and it's technically one of these, but running more upright and chest up. So this is going to revolutionise your running technique.

Really simple thing that you can do, just think, feet underneath you. Feet underneath me, right. E. Engaged core. Oh. Now. I thought you were going to say that.

So when I say engaged core. Oh, you do. I'm sure of it. When we say engaged core. age core. I just say to people, think about not bracing as if, you know, AJ is going to soccer punch you in the core. You don't want to be bracing that aggressively, but you want to think about your hips almost like a salad bowl or a cup of water is probably easier that when you're running, we want to keep that water not spilling. Okay. If you're tilted and your

pelvis is down, you're going to be pouring water out as you're running and you don't want to lose your water. So by keeping just your belly button tucked in towards you, towards your spine, not aggressively, but just subtly, it's going to engage that core. Your core isn't just your abs. It's your glutes. It's your back. It's the muscles at the front of the top of your legs as well. So it's just going to keep your body in a better position. Combine that with the feet underneath you, you have a delightful running form already started. I love that. Delightful. Tea. Turnover. What's what like like Apple. Turnover? That would be great. That would be great. So this is to do with the speed of your foot turnover. Okay. So when we're landing on our feet under us, I want you to imagine that you're on a treadmill. Now I know some people despise running on a treadmill. Yeah, me, me. Yeah, there's a lot of hate come from there. But think that you're running on treadmill because you've set a certain pace and you're just going to trot along at that pace. Think about how many steps you take when you're running at that pace. in an ideal world, everyone wants to be running somewhere.

This is going to vary 170 to 180 steps per minute, both feet. Because that's the most efficient way when your feet are landing underneath you. So you're actually going to be able to get the force that you're pushing into the treble and use it. When we have less turnover, we put more force through our joints per step. Right. Okay. So almost think about running at the same pace but taking more steps. And I always say it, think about it more on a treadmill, because sometimes when you try and do it outside, you just end up running faster. When you take more steps and you end up not being able to keep up with your own feet.

Okay. Like, so like road runner. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So turnover is also known in like the world as cadence. Cadence, right. So that comes up on my, like on my watch, my fitness watch.

And I'm like, I don't really know what's going on here. Yes. And I kind of ignore it. So I want to say to anyone. starting out. Oh yeah, starting out. Don't worry too much about this. Not to like poo-poo.

No, running expertise, Emma. Not to say. Honestly, and you know what? If this is too much for you right now, ignore it. Ignore it. Come back to it later.

Come back to fetch later. Take what you want and leave the rest. Exactly. I love that. That's my attitude to life. Yeah. C. C is that I just slightly touched on it,

that chest proud. Chest up. Chest up. Booms up, ladies. Yeah, be proud. Okay. So I was thinking about this one this morning. I was running because when you have boobs like mine, it can be quite, you know, like difficult.

And I, but I do realize, yeah, when my head is up, it instantly changes your running form and makes you less slouchy. And your head as well, when you put it down, when you're looking down, it adds extra weight and impact on your choice. Yeah. Heads are really heavy. So you being chess proud, you're like, oh, and also, you're running. that's amazing. So be proud. Like have that chest out.

But yeah, look at me running down. Like, I'm doing it. That's why I wear underwear. There you go. Just underwear. Okay. H. Hands.

Sounds so strange. But when we're running, I think that we automatically think to get ourselves to run faster, tense up the hands. Yeah, relax. And everything's here. Relax. Hands relax. And then also that H.

can also be head on the horizon as well. Is that similar idea to chess? Because sometimes people can be proud chess, but their head can be up here. When I run my hands, I look like a T-Rex. And I think that's okay. And I would add to that,

don't worry about what you look like because no one's looking at you. Literally. So yeah, all of that stuff is, you know, is that I'd say the next layer. So once you got past the, okay, I can run for 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Okay, what do I do to actually make it

feel easier and help me a little more now that I'm actually running, then take a look at fetch and really ingest it. But yeah, if you are starting out, I know what it's like. There are so many people telling you 800 things that you need to do. You don't need to do 800 things. Just get out and start moving. Yeah. What about things like water and fuel?

So what's the kind of rules? So if you're out running for, I don't know, an hour, then you might want to take water over an hour. You might want to take water with you. But otherwise, don't want to. worry too much, someone said to me. Honestly, don't worry too much. I think we...

You don't need the Tommy Tippy Sippy Cuck. No, being said, I think that'd give really cool run-a-street cred when you're out. Just like, cheersing to people going fast. I might go into like the basement and try and dig that out. Please, I need that as like a race photo. But yeah, it's... There's a lot...

I think because now more people are getting into it, which obviously I love, so many people are starting to put rules on top of, like, the classic race fest conversation. that has happened recently about, you know, oh, if you're running 5K, why are you running with a vest on? Because they want to. Yeah. So if you're like, I'm someone that runs and when I exercise,

I get really thirsty. Take your water if you want to. Like it's, I'm not going to be like, oh, it's a bad thing for you to drink water when you're exercising. No. So yes, of course, when we do start to get to the longer distances and if you're running in the heat when it comes back, like then, yes, there is going to be reasoning for you actually physically

and physiologically needing it. But if you're like, no, I actually prefer running with water or with this. Do it. I think that's the big takeaway, isn't it? It's like, do what works for you. Exactly. Don't do what works for whatever influencer or the person you see running around the park, you know, do what works for you.

Exactly that. Because it's your run. Yeah. It's not anyone else's. Exactly. Can I ask you a bit about the dreaded gate, analysis thing because people do, I was talking to a friend yesterday, we were out on a walk and she was like, I really want to get into running, but I, you know, I need to get a special type of shoe

or whatever. And I said to her, well, just go to a running shop and they will analyze your gate. And even just saying that, I think, like freaked her out, you know. Yeah. So, but people do have different feet and they land in different ways. Our bodies are all different. So, there are, broadly speaking, there are stability shoes if you pronate, which is your feet turn out or in. Inwards, yeah. And then there are neutral shoes for people who run, quote, unquote, normally. Normally. So the best way to think about this is, I think the word pronation, which is that idea of rolling in.

Ultimately, my favorite thing to do with a lot of this sciencey stuff is just simplify it. So pro-nation rolling in, yes. But we do that to shock-absorb. So when your foot makes contact, whether you're walking or whether you're running, when your foot makes contact with the ground, your arch, the inside part of your foot comes down, your foot splays naturally, and then as you go to push off, it stiffens up to push again.

So every person, whether running or walking, has that pronation. When we run, obviously, we do it faster than we walk, so more forces go through. Not necessarily. Potentially, potentially. So more forces go through the foot. So therefore, yes, dependent on how you individually move, you might need a shoe to help you with the extra movement that happens because of those forces.

So some people do it to a neutral variation, which is what the neutral shoes are for. So you might actually pronate, but you don't do it to a massive degree, so you're good in a neutral shoe. There might be some people that do pronate more. They may need a more supportive shoe to help control that movement. That's what I have. So that it doesn't then affect knees and hits and everything further up the chain. So the biggest thing I tell people to think about when they're looking for shoes is, yes, see how your feet are moving.

But the biggest importance is how your feet then interact with your knees and hips and everything else. So that when you're running, we're not putting you or you're not running in a shoe that is causing negative issues that could then stop you running with knee pain, hip pain, back pain, etc. And you don't have to spend a fortune? No. You don't. marketing world tells you you do. But ultimately you need, there's a fantastic scientist called Ben O'Nig who wrote loads of papers about this.

And there's an idea of this sort of comfort paradigm where, yes, of course, you know, the science in me is like, oh, it's helping you do this and your body's now straighter. But actually, being in a shoe that you feel comfortable running in is like half the battle. Yeah. It's actually more important. Yeah. So I could be like this is the most scientifically superfluously. cream shoe for you, but you're like, it doesn't feel comfortable on my foot.

I'm like, cool, we're not going with it. Yeah. So that's the most important thing. So yeah, and you don't have to spend hundreds of pounds. You can find that in a entry level shoe, which actually a lot of the time, these brands entry level shoes are great shoes. Yeah. The thing I'm getting is that we can overthink these things.

And sometimes we can overthink these things is a way to avoid starting them. Right? Oh, yes. So we can be like, I can't run because I don't have the equipment. I don't have the shoes. I don't have the. You know, I don't have the gear. I don't, you know, it all sounds too complicated.

And it's actually, it's really, it's as simple as you want it to be, you know. And that what I'd say to anyone listening or watching is just, you know, just lace up those trainers and start because you, Emma, you know, you weren't a runner, you know, you were miserable in your room after the death of your father. And, you know, then one day you decided that you had to run to that door, right? You had to run to that door. And that door was what, how many, were like two kilometers away? Yeah, a couple K.

A couple of K away, right? And now you sit here on this sofa. And I ask you how many marathons you've done? 15. 15 marathons. And then I started with my Tommy Tippy sippy cup because I just needed to not feel like I was the worst person in the world, you know, to feel less. suicidal. And I was thinking about this this morning as I was running here and 10 years on, it's a normal thing for me to run to work, you know? Like I run five days a week, you know,

and I don't run fast and I don't always run that long, but I do it. And I do it to kind of reset my nervous system, you know. We were both, I was on the cover of women's running this month. I saw. And you, Emma, there's a brilliant feature in there about all your tips on running. And I thought, this is what I want to see. You know, women like us showing you that you don't have to look a certain way. You don't have to, you know, be running for, you know, pace or whatever to do it. You just have to show up and be here. Yeah.

And just showing up is where magic happens. I say it a lot in classes that I coach with people and they're like, you know, oh, I didn't get to do this. And I'm like, but you're here now. and it's showing up and it doesn't have to be, you know, we're so fixated on times and distance. You don't have to even want to run 5K. For you, it might just be, I'm just going to go and run 2, 3K,

I'm just going to go and run 20 minutes. I'm not even going to know how far I've gone. But it's just going, okay, what feels great for me? And if for you, that's 20 minutes, and that's all you're going to do a couple times a week. You're still a runner. You don't have to run crazy marathons. You don't have to do that.

You don't have to run 100 miles and all that stuff. You can just go, yeah, I like to run 20 minutes, twice a week. That's good for me. Yeah. Fantastic. You're still an absolute legend. Exactly.

And you're an absolute legend, Emma. Oh, thank you. What do you think your dad would say if he could see you now? Oh. I feel like some of the Nigerian living would come out and be like, why are you still running? Like what are you trying to find? And then the other thing, which is a classic, like, African parent phrase is, more grease to your elbows.

More grease to your elbows. Almost like, you know, keep going. Keep, keep striving to do stuff. Keep trying to knock down and go for that next goal. Like, just keep doing it. More grease to your elbows. Well, in the words of Emma's dad, more grease to your elbows. Thank you so much, Emma, for coming in and sharing all your expertise with us.

Thanks for having me. It's been delightful. Right. Are you lacing up your trainers as I speak? If you're not, that's okay. You've got my permission to stay on the sofa and read Emma's new book, Find Your Pace, which is out now. And I want to hear all about the running goals you've set yourself this year.

From Park Run to the London Marathon, they all matter to me. In the meantime, don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate and share this episode with a friend. Most of all, be kind to yourself and I'll see you next time.