The Life Of Bryony - Protecting Your Mental Health in a World of Weight Loss Injections - with Body Image Expert Dr. Charlotte Ord

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

This week, I’m joined by the brilliant Dr Charlotte Ord – she’s an expert on body image and, honestly, exactly who you want to hear from if all this talk about weight loss and GLP-1 injections is making your head spin. We get into why it feels like progress in body acceptance has stalled, how the latest weight loss trends can really mess with your mental health, and most importantly, what you can actually do about it. Charlotte shares genuinely practical advice – from how to manage your social feeds to setting boundaries and staying rooted in self-compassion. If you find yourself feeling overwhelmed, anxious, or just plain fed up with the pressure to change your body, I promise you’ll come away from this conversation with real, doable ways to feel better and more at home in your own skin. Give it a listen – you’re not alone in this. LINKS TO SUPPORT GROUPS If the content around eating disorders resonated with you today and you would like support, please consider the following charities: BEAT: https://www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/ First Steps ED: https://firststepsed.co.uk/   BOOKS DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE Dr. Charlotte Ord’s book, Body Confident You, Body Confident Kid, is available to buy now.   WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU Got something to share? Text or send a voice note on 07796657512 – just start your message with LOB. Use the WhatsApp shortcut: https://wa.me/447796657512?text=LOB Prefer email? Drop me a line at [e-mail] If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need it – it really helps! Bryony xx   CREDITS: Host: Bryony Gordon   Guest: Dr. Charlotte Ord   Producer: Laura Elwood-Craig   Assistant Producer: Ceyda Uzun   Studio Manager: Sam Chisholm   Editor: Luke Shelley   Exec Producer: Mike Wooller    A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Seriously popular. Who else is absolutely sick of hearing about GLP-1s, by which I mean a Zembit-Wigovie, Mountain Goat Jaro, as I call it. I think it's actually called Mangaro. It may seem counterintuitive doing a podcast about a subject you're completely sick of, but this isn't the kind of podcast you think it's going to be.

It's not about the evils of the drug or the huge benefits, because there's tons of health podcasts out there on that. It's not an interview with people who've taken them on their experiences. This is a podcast about how to protect your head in a world that is once again obsessed with weight loss. To help me do this, I've invited in an expert on the subject. Dr Charlotte Ord is a body image and eating disorder recovery expert, an author of Body Confident You, Body Confident Kid. And she's here to share her wisdom as a counselling psychologist. There's almost an assumption, oh, if I lose weight, then I'm going to,

I'm going to be healthier, I'm going to feel better about myself. Well, of course, you're going to feel better about yourself because you've been stigmatised. But the trouble is, that's making the individual body the problem rather than the system. So plug in, tune out the right. rest of the world, because I promise you're going to feel a whole lot better and more centered by the time this episode is finished. I really wanted to get you in because it would be fair to say, Charlotte, that you have experienced all sides of diet culture. You are kind of a diet culture,

survivor, so to speak. Yes. And in some ways a promoter of it unintentionally too. Yeah. And I like that because my whole first 30 years of my life was about, you know, whether I knew it or not, I was promoting diet culture by being on diets and obsessing about my body and talking about it with my friends and all of that stuff. So Charlotte, you have a history of eating disorders yourself. Yes, that's right. So bulimia. anorexia anorexia and you found yourself as a personal trainer i did yeah so my history is i was very sporty and that so it was a natural progression for me to go into sport personal training and i love that side of it but i was also very much immersed like everyone else in diet culture

and a culture that really emphasize howled thinness and so perhaps unsurprisingly, fitness became very much about how thing you could get, how long you could get. And it started to really take our eyes off actual health, even though it was under this kind of guise of health. That's not really what people were promoting. This was back in the sort of, how old are you, Charlotte? Do you mind me asking?

43. So we're talking in the sort of 90s and 90s. Yeah, early naughties, yeah. Where fitness was very much, I mean, it happens now as well. diet culture was sort of under the guise of fitness sometimes. Absolutely. And in that industry, disordered eating was so normalized. It was what everyone was doing.

And I think when you're in an environment like that, it's really hard to see the wood for the trees. And so I was fantastic at helping people lose weight. But what I soon realized was that actually most people can lose weight. Not everyone can keep it off. In fact, most people can't. And it's at that point, that things start to get really problematic health-wise

because the pursuit of the sustained weight loss meant that people had to engage in disorders eating in order to try and have any hope of sustaining that. And so the waters get really muddied. And it was when I had that realization, which took several years that I started to change. So you, and it would be fair to say that the realisation happened for you while you were signed up to be a trainer

on the biggest loser you can. So some people may have seen recently there's Netflix documentary on this, or the American version of the show, which is basically a competition where fat people were played against each other to lose weight. That's right. When I was cast on the show, I was already starting to become more aware of the health every size paradigm, which is one that really emphasises respect for bodies of all sizes

and health behaviours that aren't based on weight because it recognises that actually there's no proven safe way of losing weight. So that was very much... There is no proven safe way of losing weight? No. No, that's it. And so I was already starting to kind of question this pursuit of weight loss, particularly in the context of health.

But I felt for the show I was better. I could do more on it than I could offer it. And so I did do it, but it was, I felt quite conflicted about it at the time. And certainly afterwards, when you have to look at participants in the biggest loser, people that have had bariatric surgery, to see that actually, whilst people can lose weight, almost always it's regained again and more. And that, of course, causes huge psychological distress, not to mention physiological issues too. So, yeah, so it was quite a journey and quite a turnaround for me.

And what can I ask you? So what then happened? So you are a physical trainer on the biggest loser, suffering from an eating disorder yourself. What was the point where you went, I can't do this anymore? And what then happened? So it was a slow process.

But after that, I decided that I would start to change my business model, which was quite a scary thing to do in the fitness industry where everyone wanted. fat loss. That was what was selling. That's what people wanted. But it just felt like I was being completely inauthentic when I had that realization that actually far from supporting people's health, I was actually contributing to making things much worse for them. And I wanted to create a space where people could come and not be focused on weight, but actually look at their strength, their flexibility, their good nutrition, those sorts of things that actually

do have health benefits and don't compromise people psychologically and so that's what I did and actually it was a lot more well received than I thought because it was like a breath of fresh air and no one was doing it and then you did you get better did you heal yourself so to speak I did I mean I think when you have an eating disorder especially a long-standing eating disorder it's it's not like you one day are recovered for me it's a practice every day I practice recovery every day. And so there's certain things that I know I need to do in order to stay well, to not slip back into that. So it's almost like a prescription, if you like, a self-prescribed itinerary of things that I do that help me to stay. And we're going to talk about that later.

In fact, we're going to do a special bonus episode in which Charlotte talks about the things that keep her healthy on a daily basis, by which I mean mentally healthy. Let's talk about body acceptance, really, because at the centre of your work and at the centre of what we kind of what we were getting to, which is I feel we have now gone back from, is that actually shaming people for their bodies, for the way their bodies look, actually leads to worse health outcomes than allowing people to be just who they are. And I'm really interested in that because every time I hear someone, again, and this is what I wanted to talk about, this is not, again, this is not an episode that judges people for taking

GLP ones or anything. Everyone has their own reasons and I'm totally, you know, pro-choice. What we are suddenly getting away from is the realisation that health, as you say, health exists at every size, all sizes and that weight is one, it's one predictor of health outcomes. And we'll get a bit more, we'll get into that a bit more in a bit. But first of all, I wanted to sort of talk about the effect that GLP-1s are having on people's mental health.

Okay. So I did a bit of research with my followers on Instagram. And I feel I kind of asked them, what are your thoughts on weight loss injections? And the range of messages I got back, I think. really showed the complexity of the issue. So, for example, there were two messages I got from two different women who both have different eating disorders. Okay?

So the first person has binge eating disorder. And because of her binging eating disorder is classed as morbidly obese, she has gone on Mangaro and her life has been transformed by it. She's like, I can walk upstairs again. I feel healthier. And she made the point, and I think this is really interesting. For her, GLP-1s have enabled her to eat like a normal human being, right? Just like it doesn't take up her head space anymore, okay?

But then I also got a message from a woman who has, she said to me, I'm an active anorexia. I weigh 40 kilos and I have managed to get hold of these drugs. So we have two sides of the coin. On one side, these drugs have genuinely been absolutely transformational for quite a few people. And I think that is wonderful and freeing. And as someone myself who has suffered from binge eating disorder, I know how awful it can be to be under that constant food noise. And I want to get into food noise in a bit because I think we're confusing food noise for some people. But then there's this whole, other group of people, mostly women who they got in touch with me and these are women who will probably never take, they will never take these drugs, okay, but who nonetheless are really affected by the endless conversations about them and I'm aware that I'm kind of perpetuating that by centering this podcast on it. The obsession with it in society and culture has really

affected their mental health and undone a lot of hard work that they did on themselves to free themselves from diet culture. And these are the women I really want to speak to with this episode. And someone sent me this message. And again, I'm not going to name the person because it's, you know, it's anonymous. But I thought it really summed up what I was hearing from lots of people. And I, so the question I put out, Charlotte, was, what are your thoughts on weight loss injections. And this person replied and said, honestly, I hate them. All the work people like me did for decades to shake off the negative body image noise we were raised with. And it's worse than ever since the injections came along. It's properly fucking with my head. I keep seeing colleagues

who have halved in size. The Serena Williams thing really affected me. I couldn't stop thinking about it for days. By which, sorry, I mean, Serena Williams recently has started publicising. a type of weight loss injection in America. And this woman continues. Suddenly thinness seems to be almost obligatory if you can afford it. It's just so sad after all that body positivity stuff. I believed all that. And now I feel like it was just marketing.

And underneath it, society really hadn't changed at all. Charlotte, is this what you're hearing in your clinic and your work? Absolutely. And I share that sentiment too. And at the same time, it's not always. lost. That hard work isn't undone. Well, that's nice to hear. I truly believe that because it's early days as far as JLP1 use purely for weight loss is concerned. We actually don't know what the long term safety data is going to show. Biologically, psychologically, socially, it could have really

significant implications. And as you said earlier, we're not here to judge people that have decided to take it. But I think it's really important for those people who have decided not to, whether that's because they can't tolerate it, they don't want to, they can't afford it, to remember why they've chosen not to and what their values are around that, because that serves as something you can keep coming back to regardless of what those around you are doing. So, yeah. And isn't it important as well? I kind of feel like it's really important if people are thinking about it, that they come to it from a place of genuine health, that the decisions are made from a genuine desire to look after their health and their well-being

and not from a place of fear and comparison and because they think that if they lose 10 pounds, the world will be a better place, which is the kind of central belief that we were all bloody well bought up on. And I also think, Charlotte, sorry, this is where I'm like, I'm not an expert on these things, but I am a woman who's like lived in this culture and has grown up in this culture and has a history of eating disorders. And when people, you know, I like to run around in my pants

as a size 18 women letting it all hang out and all wobble around. And people are like, God, I wish I could be like you. I wish I could be so confident. And I'm like, confidence is a trick. It's a load of bollocks. I don't have body confidence. I just have a desire not to hate on this precious body of mine anymore, right?

But also the thing I want to say to people is of course you don't have any confidence. Of course you don't have any fucking confidence because we grew up in a world of diet culture and a couple of years of people talking about body acceptance on social media is not going to solve it, you know. And so it makes absolute sense that this should be getting in your head. It would be weird, you know, it would be weirder in a way if it didn't. It's kind of appropriate by which I mean, don't beat yourself up for feeling this, right? Yeah, absolutely. If you have grown up in a body that has been stigmatised, it makes absolute sense that you would want to get out of that stigmatised group

by whatever means is possible because that's an awful experience and that's a reality for lots of people. The difficulty is, I think for many people making a decision around when to take these drugs or not, is whether it is in the interest of their health or not. Because it is, as you said earlier, such a multifaceted thing, our weight. And we live, particularly in the UK, in a very weight-centric medical system. And so there's almost an assumption, oh, if I lose weight, then I'm going to, I'm going to be healthier, I'm going to feel better about myself. Well, of course, you're going to feel better about yourself because you've been stigmatised. But the trouble is, that's making the individual body the problem rather than the system being the problem.

Okay. So, so, but the thing is, I'm listening to this and thinking about, yeah, if you're in a body that's been stigmatized by which you mean someone who's a higher weight, you know, yes, of course, you are going to want to make those, you might want to make those decisions. But I am really interested in the kind of mass body dysmorphia that exists where people believe they are quote unquote fat when they're just not. Okay. And this is what this is what, this is what's, slightly concerns me, okay, because I hear a lot about food noise. And again, I know, like, we can't judge people from what they look like on the outside at all. But I have spoken to women who are, you know, objectively very small, like slim, okay, lower weight, who have said to me, and I love their honesty, because it's really important. And they've said to me, yeah, but I have food noise. I have food noise. I binge on chocolate. at night. And when I asked this person what that was, they were like, oh, it's a, you know, they were essentially describing a bar of chocolate. And I was like, I'm not sure that that's food

noise. I think that might be hunger, you know. And I think this, that there is, there's this risk that because of diet culture, because of how entrenched this is, right, that many people are confusing things like food noise with hunger. And food noise, let me tell you. Like, This is not to undermine because I think the fact that someone feels the need to block that out is in itself so sad and so tragic. And, you know, but in my mind, it was like you'd be better off spending your money on therapy rather than JLP ones, right? So it's not to say that this isn't, you know, that this is, you know, get over it because like, hello, like it's not that easy, right? because we've, this is like in our very fabric of society. But I do think some of these words are getting misused because of body dysmorphia.

And, you know, I also hear a lot of people say that they've struggled with their weight their whole lives, you know. And I hear people say that to me, oh, you must struggle with your weight. And I'm like, actually what they're struggling with is these sort of toxic, standards of diet culture that say that to be of any worth or value, we must be thinner. Does that make sense? Yes, it does make sense. Absolutely. So when I see someone like Serena Williams, and again, you know, it's her choice. I don't want to get into that thing of like describing how someone looks, but, you know, to me, she's not an obvious candidate for GLP ones. And I think, have we gone back in time? Like there seems to be this massive body dysmorphia. And I hear it as well where women say,

sales, I get older, I can't shift the menopause way, or I can't lose the way. And I think Serena Williams said that, that she was unable to lose the weight. And I'm like, well, maybe if you can't lose the weight, it's supposed to be there. Maybe it's serving a purpose for your body. I mean, again, I hate that we're getting into the weeds of, like, talking about women. But I feel like we have to be able to talk about that because weight isn't, you know, is, yeah. I mean, I'm, I get, as you can tell, I'm getting, like, really worked up about it. What's happening is a complete disconnection from our bodies.

And stakeholders, pharmaceutical companies are just cashing in on people's shame, on people's fear, and making us feel like it's not normal for our bodies to change across our lifespan, which, of course, it is. And going back to what you were saying about food noise, the term food noise really frustrates me because food noise is just a buzzword for food preoccupation and one thing that we know causes food preoccupation is food restriction and what does dieting encourage food restriction so I find it incredibly frustrating that we're now pathologising something

that we know is a direct cause of what people have been told to do for their health in inverted commas and so if I have a client coming to me with food noise, the first thing I'll do is encourage them to get on a really regular eating schedule so they are properly nourished because as long as you are restricting food, you're likely to have food noise. I, when I got treatment for binge eating disorder a few years ago

and if people want to go back and listen, I actually did an episode with my therapist, Jess Griffiths, you can go and listen back to it. And so what I'd always done is I would binge in the evening. It was like my time secret, quiet. I would go and eat vast amounts of food. And then almost to counteract it the next day, I just wouldn't eat all day. And she was like, well, there's your first problem.

She's like, so we need to know what of this is actually hunger. And so she forced me for the first time in my life to start eating three meals a day and snacks, right? And I had to write it all down. And when I tell you, Sharla, that it transformed my life and has transformed my life. Like, I will never, ever miss a meal now because it is just, it's the basis of all good health. My mental health, like I can't not, you know, and I wonder how I managed to go through decades of my life living on literally cocaine and packets of quavers, do you know what I mean? And that was basically my diet until I got sober. Yeah, absolutely.

And what, for me, body image, really body image issues is about not feeling safe in your body. And so when I'm working with someone who is struggling with a body image or is struggling with disorder eating or both, I try to work from the bottom up because we can think about food and about our relationship with food, our relationship with our body and the context that we swim in all day long. but actually if you don't feel safe in your body you're going to have a hard time trusting it and connecting with it and so that's one of the first things I do

is help my clients to actually feel safe in their body to regulate themselves because body image fluctuates one day I feel great about my body next day not so good photo might come up I don't feel great about someone might give me a compliment it ebs and floats and I think that's really natural

but if you're constantly being pulled around by that and reacting to that by trying to control your body, you're just getting more and more disconnected from it. So coming back into your body, being able to stabilise and to feel safe is the first thing that needs to be worked on for me. Okay. So do you think that these conversations, constant conversations about weight loss injections, could make people feel lack safety in their bodies?

Absolutely. Because I think it reinforces this idea that unless you're a certain body size, you're not okay. You're not acceptable. and all of us need to feel like we're acceptable. That's just such a fundamental human need to feel like I am okay as I am, not that I'm okay if I'm a size X or weigh a certain amount because that's not realistic. Our bodies don't stay the same across our lifespan.

So, yes, I do think it increases a feeling of being unsafe, and that's really important to recognise that that's not a problem with your body. That's the environment that you're in being quite destabilised. But the problem is the system, not your individual body. Okay, so let's talk about the system. BMI, body mass index. So this is a really interesting thing because our entire, the entire health system in the UK and in America as well is,

well, let's not talk about the health system in America, but it's probably basil. but it is it is run on this kind of BMI like the whole way through whenever you go to the doctor you have to put down your BMI even if you're going to talk about something completely unrelated but everything comes back to weight and I know this I have had this experience where I have gone to the doctor I had eventually after a lot of medical gaslighting was I kept having palpitations and he was like have you tried losing weight have you you know, have you, you're stressed, you're a woman, all of that kind of thing. I turned out I actually had an arrhythmia, right, which I probably have had since I was very small when my weight was smaller as well. So it's kind of, but anyway, I, it was like, every time I went to the doctor, have you tried losing weight? And it was like, oh my God, this is all my fault. It's all my fault that I have this heart arrhythmia. It's all, you know, and I

look back on it and I think, oh, I am a beast by the beast. m i terms and that's fine you know like i'm really not bothered by that at all because i run marathons i run half marathons but i get this constant thing whenever i put up a reel of myself running the london marathon or the great north run or whatever in my underwear which i do not to say hey everyone you should all be my body size you should all let yourself go a bit or whatever and be a bit fat, you know, it's good to be fat or it's good to be high a weight. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's good to be able to exist in your body whatever size it happens to fucking be, right? You know, whether I'm five stone more or five stone less, I deserve to exist and I deserve to try and do these things and get out there and live my life without people, you know, making a judgment of them. And it's almost like I have to explain to people that I almost are making a spectacle of myself or showing my body off to make the point that my body is kind of, it's not relevant, obviously bodies are amazing, but it's like the way my body looks doesn't actually impact that much on what I can do

with it. That's the point I'm trying to make. Unless we make it very central to our worth, in which case is. Yeah, but of course we've made it essential to our worth because it is, that is what society says it is. So talk to me about the BMI system and how flawed it is. Well, the BMI system was invented by mathematician to look at populations. It was never designed as an individual health marker, but it's become used as such. And the problem is it doesn't account for body composition, ethnicity, so many individual variables.

And yet, it's used to gate-keep treatment. As you say, it's terribly influential in terms of weight stigma in medical settings. I have a friend that told me, this is years ago now, but she said to me, I can walk into my doctors with a nine-inch nail through my palm and they would blame it on my weight. But also, I think people don't seem to understand because I get so many messages from people being like, I'm really concerned about your joints, I'm concerned about your health. Because arthritis doesn't happen in thinnobody. But also it's like, but are you really concerned about my health and my joints or are you concerned about the right you have to look down on a group of people that you think you're better than?

That's what it's really about. And that's concerned trolling too. Yeah, but also shaming someone, what people don't seem to get their head around is if shaming people for their weight made people healthier, if it was that simple, no one would be higher weight. No one would be. Absolutely. Because let me tell you, the shame you experience as someone in a bigger body is fucking endless. People don't even have to say anything.

It's like I just have to sit in a bus seat or whatever or on a flight. and it's like, oh, this seat is shaming me. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm glad that the life of Briny team got a bigger, like, proper seat for me to sit in. But, you know, like, and I'm not even that big. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm just a kind of 16, 18, 20 size woman, you know.

But it's, if it that was, if that was what it took, what it took to get people to lose weight, I mean, diet culture wouldn't exist. And I think people don't understand that actually the way, if you really care about someone, if you really do care about someone's joints and their health and their well-being, you let them exist as they are because all the research shows that body acceptance leads to far better health outcomes. Absolutely.

People take better care of the things that they like. And there is a huge amount of evidence. of the impact or on the impact of weight stigma on health outcomes and paradoxically the more people are shamed and placed under stress the more like they are to turn to food to cope and the higher their weight becomes that's that is you know very well evidenced and so it as you say it does doesn't work to shame people and it doesn't work to shame yourself either and what I really encourage people to do is to think about the workability of what they've tried already if you've gone around the darting loop 100 times already and you've ended up still in a place where

you feel at war with your body and at war with your weight, then maybe it's time to start trying something else. Maybe it's time to start trying something gentler, kinder, more compassionate. But in order to do that and to have the space to do that, it's so important to anchor into a community that is going to support you in doing that. And that might mean setting up some clear boundaries with family, friends, perhaps people that are taking GLP ones who who are very fixated on weight loss. And so you're actually protecting yourself a bit from that. And that can be hard in itself,

holding boundaries and stepping back from people that are basically encouraging you to think about weight all the time so that you have a bit of space to think about it in a different way. I'm so I have to sit in a different way. So can we also talk a bit about, you see just how much fat phobia there is out there when you see people in larger bodies who might have suddenly lost weight

because they've been taking JLP ones and again totally no problem with that. And then you see people shaming them for losing weight the wrong way. But this just tells us, doesn't it? It's like you want people to lose weight and then when something comes along which helps them to lose weight,

we shame them for doing it the wrong way. Like it's never been about any concern for anyone's health, right? No. This is really about controlling women and about suppressing women. It's not about health. And so whatever you're thinking about

pursuing whether it's GLP1s or a specific diet protocol, the most important thing is to come back to what really matters to me. Am I fully informed, not just about the short-term implications of this protocol, but the long-term implications.

Is it safe? Is it holistic? is it going to support me psychologically, socially, biologically, and then make your decision that feels right for you? I have a friend who has done a lot of work on themselves and they have experienced a lot of proper food addiction and made the decision to go on GLP1s from a place of absolute, like, genuine health. and I think in over 18 months has lost like he was like it's not it was never actually about

the weight loss for him so it was about being able to get back control of his life and you know into that lots of other kind of noise has has gone and he's he's like the weight I've lost is sort of incidental it's what the is the weight you will lose when you are eating you go from eating vast amounts to eating normally. And I think that's really interesting. And again, that's what I want to kind of address the complexities of this, because it is genuinely life-changing for lots of people. And again, so I just want to make that clear.

This is not a criticism of people who choose to take it because everyone is different. But I think it is trying to say it's really important that you make that decision from a genuine place of health. rather than a sort of like, yeah, a place of fear. And that's one of the questions around JLP ones that trouble me at the moment, because you're absolutely right, they can be transformative for some people,

particularly those with medical need. And at the same time, we just don't know what the long-term implications are. So either people stay on these medications long-term in a chronic way, that obviously has cost implications, and potentially other implications too in terms of your biology and psychology and so on or people have to taper off them

my concern is what happens then what does happen well a lot of people put the weight back on and more just like they would following an extreme diet sometimes following bariatric surgery that's how the body responds our bodies really fight hard to get back up to a set point and what concerns me about gop1s particularly

is that gop1s are not not the only pathway that impacts appetite. There's other aspects, leptin, grail it, and the kind of hormonal aspects. And I think when you influence one pathway, you're almost certainly going to influence the others too. And so what metabolic adaptations are happening whilst people are taking these medications? This is so interesting. Can you talk a bit about that how our bodies doesn't matter what weight you are if you

start to go into the cycle of restricting and binging, which, Lots of us are in. Our body wants to cling on to stuff so that we can survive, should we go through? So if you think about our ancestors, the cavemen, they would go long times without eating, so their bodies would cling on to what they could so that they had stores and reserves. Absolutely. Our bodies are very well adapted to downregulate our metabolism during a famine. As you say, it's an absolute survival mechanism and it works really well.

It doesn't work well when you're dieting to try. and control your weight in a way that's not meant to be controlled. And so when people calories suppress, whether that's through dieting, bariatric surgery, GLP1 use, what's going to happen is your metabolism is likely to downregulate. So that when you stop, and very often that's not a question of willpower or motivation because our more primal parts of our brain, the amygdala, for example, that's like the brain's alarm system, will totally override. any kind of higher function so you can be as motivated and have the most willpower in the world

and it doesn't matter your body will override that and what happens then is you have an enormous drive to eat which is why people end up often dissociating and finding themselves surrounded by rappers and things like that I'm thinking what on earth what am I doing I'm sabotaging myself and what happens then when people feel they've sabotaged they feel guilty they feel shame and so the cycle gets worse and worse and worse. And that's another issue that I have with GLP1 use is that it doesn't address any of the psychological underpinnings of why people get to a place of having disorder of eating,

whether that's anorexia, bulimia, binge eating disorder. It doesn't address any of it. And often those issues are relational injuries and they need to be healed. By which you mean? Talk to me, what is a relational injury? So for someone listening or tuning in who's like, what?

What are the relational injuries that we all carry around? Everyone's experience is slightly different, but we all have an attachment. You might have heard of attachment theory. That normally starts in childhood with our parents. And it may be around our body, or it may be about something else. But it's essentially a sense of,

am I safe, am I secure, am I okay in myself? The more secure a child is, the less likely they are to have, issues around their body image and subsequently eating disorders and so in order to address those things we need to go back to those original injuries that doesn't need need to mean doing i think often when people think about therapy think about being really painful and deep and like emotionally brutal it doesn't have to be like that at all and actually healing for me needs to be slow it needs to be gentle sometimes it needs to be playful fun because actually that's what gives our nervous system

a sense of safety and that's where healing really starts and often we're wounded in community but we also heal in community and being surrounded by people who are also doing similar or in a similar journey it can be really really profound okay so people listening right now who are on their way to work or they're back from the school or they're you know driving back from the school run and they are like okay I need to do some healing with my body, right? I think this is what I need to do. I don't, you know, I need to tune out of all of this noise. How do we protect our brains and calm our nervous systems in a world that is suddenly obsessed with weight loss again? There's lots of things we can do.

Firstly, I do think it's important to look at your environment and to try and curate that both online and offline so that you're not being bombarded by messages that just reinforce this idea that your body has to look at a certain way or where a certain amount in order to be okay. So that might mean going through your social media feeds and being really critically aware about how certain accounts make you feel, what gets a vote for you, and curating that so that your feed is primarily full of either neutral like puppies or surfing or whatever you like. Stuff that makes you feel good, but ultimately things that fill you with a sense of comfort, inspiration, people doing similar work, so that you're not being fed constant messages all the time. And there's plenty of that. So I think doing an audit of your social media can be really helpful. Then thinking about your relationships and are there certain people in your life for whom you know weight loss is a big thing at the moment and that might bring that top of mind for you too. And is a really helpful. And is there a conversation needs to be had with those people around the fact that you're trying to work

on self-acceptance and actually that's not really helpful for you so that's not a conversation that you can have right now instinctively when you say that Charlotte I go I don't want to have that conversation yeah the ways that you can say it because also you know there's this other thing of like it's that person that is choosing to lose weight they're free to do that absolutely and just as you're free to not want to have to engage in the conversation can you just let us know that it is okay to say, I'm really happy for you that this works for you, but I don't really want to talk about diets and weight loss. And if you don't want to, I think for a lot of people, it feels quite confronting to have

those kind of conversation. Yeah. So you can always just step away or divert the conversation onto something else. It doesn't have to be. Puppies. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And there are lots of ways to do that.

And I think you just have to check in with yourself and ask, am I willing to say, actually, this is a conversation that isn't great for me, but I'm happy that things are going well for you, or do you want to do it more subtly? In your book, you talk about an exercise, which is just walking around for a day and noting down maybe in the notes app of your phone, how many times you hear people talk about bodies

or refer to bodies? It's quite wild. It's wild. And I have a particular, I know I have a attentional bias. to this because this is my work it's my passion so I'm very tuned into it but even so it's everywhere and I think we have to be really compassionate with ourselves around that it has got harder recently there has been a massive regression into dark culture with the gLP1's becoming mainstream and I think

to ignore that is doing ourselves a disservice it has got harder but it doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do to give up and join in if that's not what feels right for you i think it just means that we need to be particularly mindful about first of all protecting ourselves from that as much as possible and then buffering that impact as far as we can by surrounding ourselves by people who are also supporting uh body acceptance journey and doing the things that you know help you to feel safe in your body and to remind yourself that your body is a good body no matter what size it is it does a load of really good stuff for you and it enables you to live the life that you have and it's the one only body you have so it's so important to take care of it could you also talk a bit about food

morality and how important that is you know that's it's the food noise right oh no I shouldn't have that that's bad that's you know I need to be a bit good today like what the hell are we children being marked at school, talk to us about just grounding ourselves a bit more in the reality of what food is. And, you know, there's an awful lot of diet culture. Diet culture, you know, it hasn't gone away. I think it's just sort of shape shifted into something different, you know. And there's a sort of wellness culture and gut health, gut health. I'm like, what people do a lot of, quite unhealthy things to their bodies in the name of gut health now. This is one of the massive issues of social media is that the spread of misinformation is

rapid and a lot of it isn't grounded in research. So that's why one of the things I write about extensively in my book is about digital literacy and critical awareness because if you believe everything that you hear on social media, you are going to be led down a very misleading road. and interestingly one of the symptoms of disordered eating and eating disorders is food rules, very rigid thinking around food and so one of the things that I'd encourage people to do is be really aware around the narrative you had around food

and to notice when you're starting to categorise foods into good and bad healthy and unhealthy and so on and also there's lots of people I think have this narrative of I need to earn that food. All of those things add shame and they add complexity around food and just not healthy. The reality is that every type of food

can fit into a balanced healthy diet. Obviously in moderation, if you eat less this all day long, that's not going to be healthy for you. So everything in moderation. But that's across weeks, months, not days. So we don't need to be really rigid about it. And actually, flexibility is,

so important around food because what that enables us to do is really return to our body's wisdom around what we need and it enables us to reconnect with that inherent wisdom and trust we have for when to start eating, when to stop eating. I find it really hard to do things in moderation, you know, and so what would you say to someone listening like me who is like, but I can't moderate. I find myself disassociating and then there's rappers all around me. I'd be curious about why you're dissociating and I'd be encouraging someone to slow down and to really focus on what's going on in my body right now. What is it that I'm trying to get away from? What do I need? Because I think a lot of people have a nourishment barrier and I don't just mean food nourishment.

I mean emotional nourishment too. A nourishment barrier. I like the sound. of this? What is the nourishment barrier? It's something that stops you being able to really internalize safety and comfort. And in today's society where, especially in the midst of diet culture, where we all feel judged and like we have to be a certain way, we start to mistrust other people. The amount of people I work with who are just convinced that everyone is judging them, everyone's going to think badly of them. And so that breeds self-criticism. If I criticise myself first and I get in there before anybody else. And that in itself becomes a habit. But it's all the goodness, all the light, all the love. We don't let the goodness the light,

the love in. Exactly. Well, it's interesting because when you walked in here, Charlotte, I said, oh, and this is like something quite, so do you like, I like your nails. And you said, oh, well, they're several weeks old and they're growing out. And it's so, so ingrained in us. Like to just spend a day noticing how much we put ourselves down is so important. Like, because I think anyone listening who's like, this all feels like too much. Like, I don't know how I go from, you know, go from being the way I am to being like, I love you. And it's not, it's not like stand in the mirror and say, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.

It's just don't stand there saying I hate you. It's like just be aware of the internal critical voice that exists and that stops us from getting that emotional nourishment that we need. Absolutely. And it has to also be intentional. I love that you called me out on the nail thing earlier because you're absolutely right. I still have to work on it all the time.

And when someone gives me a compliment, I try and really take it in and actually I bring my hands to my heart and I thank you. and I try to internalize it because I've had a really, really strong nourishment barrier. And it's taking me a long time to actually start to trust and let in the good. And slowly, it's really made a difference to me. I've got to a place now where I feel like I can be filled up by something other than food. And that's a fantastic place to be.

It's much more peaceful place to be. And what's also happened for me is that I can start to give that to myself to. Okay. So it's about getting to a place where we enjoy food. You know, like yesterday, I had just this delicious Sunday roast, you know. And it was like, it was kind of like a highlight of my day. And I think the place I've got to on it and not just on food, but on everything, it's like, am I nourishing myself with this decision or am I trying to punish myself with this decision? You know, absolutely. And also, food isn't just about. how much is on a plate or what's on the plate. It's also about the social connection. In previous eras, the way that people knew that you were okay is that you came to the table to eat together. That's what safety is.

We're together. And of course, nowadays, we're not together very much, really. No. Not in a real heart-to-heart way. And so there's so much focus on what's the right way to eat, what's the right way to manage your weight. but actually what it really comes down to is how safe do you feel how safe do you feel in your body and that's why people of all body sizes can feel body confidence because they feel safe in themselves

no matter what they way or what they look like so we need to get back to more of that like family cooking together coming around the table together and that can be biological family that can be chosen family that can be your pet dog yeah it's it's it's whatever you have access to that helps you feel grounded, safe, calm, and that normally means slowing down. Of course, that's the complete opposite of the way most of us live our lives. We rush around, we ignore our internal cues, we try and get rid of any discomfort.

And that's our body saying, ah, I'm not okay. Like, I need something. And what often happens then for anyone who has a difficult relationship with food is that food gets used to regulate. And so part of healing is also learning how to regulate your nervous system. And sometimes food can help with that because food is soothing sometimes and that's okay. But if it's the only thing you use to soothe, then that can become a problem with itself. So, of course, the other thing is Charlotte that we are all trying to undo the generations of body dysmorphia that have been handed down through grandparents.

know, like all of us. And I also think that it's so important that we are modeling this to our children, right? And we're remembering that they are not stupid and they pick up on this kind of stuff, right? Absolutely. Kids pick up on what's modeled to them. And I do want to really emphasize the fact that no parent can or needs to be perfect. We will all slip up. We've all grown up in this context. so it's natural that things are going to flip into conversations that you perhaps recognize later weren't the most helpful things. I just want to say that. But there is so much you can do to help support your kid in having a different experience to what you had if you grew up feeling at war with your body. And those things can range from being mindful about the way you speak about food.

like we talked about earlier in terms of not moralising food, not categorizing food, making sure that you're in charge of what and when and you trust your kids to decide how much. And also things like how you talk about your own body, remembering that your child is probably very likely to have a body just like yours when you grow up. So the messages they internalize around different body types are the ones that are later going to help to form their own. own body image. This is so important because in your book, there's a fantastic passage about a child being called fat and the way that a parent responds to it. And I find it really interesting because fat is seen as such a derogatory term and we have to be really careful.

So I don't use it as a derogatory term. I use it as a neutral description. No, but that's the thing. I think it's really important to say, can we not use fat as a as a an insult absolutely absolutely it's okay someone my daughter got really upset on my behalf because someone had called me fat and I was like it's fine sure it's it depends on the intent and I think that's so important to recognize kids now might be using those kind of terms in a different way to to what we attach to them meaning wise and so it's helpful I think to check in with your child as to what the context was how is it said, what do they think that person meant so that you're not unintentionally reinforcing

negative associations with a particular descriptor? Other things you can do are if your kid is using social media or is being exposed in any way, helping them be really critically aware and be mindful about what shows up in them when they look at certain material so that they're starting to tune in, okay, what does my body say about this? How safe do I feel when I look at this? Does it make me feel good about myself or does it make me question myself? Who benefits from me feeling that way? And so they then start to ask. Oh, I like that question. That's the question we can all ask ourselves. I ask myself that all the time. Who benefits from me feeling like shit? Absolutely. Because it ain't me.

And also, for example, recently, you've probably seen this, influences with 20% discount. can't close for gLP ones do they have the necessary understanding biologically socially psychologically to be able to be advocating that anyone takes these drugs the answer is probably highly no and so being aware of that and asking those questions about what's what's in it for them and how is this really impacting me can help to just get a little bit of space between you and that content whether it's for you or your child i want to end this podcast by with a little biology lesson. And some people may have heard me say this before because it's, but it's absolutely what I come back to every time I find myself spiraling and thinking I'm not good

enough. I remind myself of the absolute miracle that I am and that all humans are. The chances of any of us existing are like, I can't pronounce the number, but it's like there is more chance of dinosaurs roaming the earth again or like Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn coming together and forming some sort of political party like any of us existing is very very unlikely right so for a start your biological parents right at the exact moment they chose to come together so that my mom my dad in november 1979 right had someone knocked on the door and interrupted them or had my dad more likely said something really fucking annoying that had pissed my mom off i might not exist brianie might not exist. The life of briny would not exist, right? Okay. But for whatever reason, they did get it on

and then what happens is, and ooh, it makes me shudder to think of it, but we're going to do it to make the point. Millions of sperm were released from my dad into my mother's body. So the one sperm that eventually fertilizes the egg that comes on, that goes on to be the zygote and then the embryo that is you. And as we all know, you know, tragically, not every pregnancy goes the distance. And we also know that the day we are born is often the most dangerous day of our lives. That's what doctors say. And then every day after that, I've had to stay alive to come, you know, like, the universe really fucking wants us all to be here, right?

And the universe wants us to be here. And they don't want us to look like Kim Kardashian or whoever is in trend or whatever. They want us to look like us and be like us and exist in our wonderful, wonderful bodies that our souls have been put into. And that's what I want to say to you, Charlotte, and to everyone listening. You are a miracle. You are a miracle and you are wonderful, whether you are taking JLP ones, whether you are not taking JLP ones, whether you are listening to this naked, standing on your head.

I fucking love you and I want you to be here as you are. We need you as you are, not as some other slimmed down, smaller, different. manufactured version of you. And on that note, I'm going to go and have a lie down. Well, how are you all feeling? I want to know. Please get in touch with me on Instagram and tell me what you think on the subject. How are you protecting your head and how do you keep your body feeling safe. Message me, let me know. And if this conversation helped,

please do rate, review and share because it enables us to get the word out and to carry on having conversations like this. But most importantly, look after yourself. We're back Friday with a special bonus episode. Until then, take care and remember, you're a miracle.