The Life Of Bryony - The Life of YOU: How to Break the Binge Cycle with Jess Griffiths

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Welcome to The Life of YOU, where we tackle life’s toughest moments. In this bonus episode, I’m joined by Jess Griffiths, an experienced eating disorder therapist and advocate for compassionate recovery. Together, we explore the often-overlooked challenges of disordered eating and how to find balance in a world obsessed with diet culture. Today: Allison is trapped in a binge-eating cycle and asks, “What are the first steps to breaking free?” Mark seeks advice after a disheartening visit to his GP Dawn wonders, “Is avoiding trigger foods a sustainable recovery strategy?” Jess' book 'Eating Disorders: The Basics - The Basics' is available to buy - https://www.waterstones.com/book/eating-disorders-the-basics/elizabeth-mcnaught/janet-treasure/9781032379579 WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU 🗣️ Got something to share? You can text or send me a voice note on 07796657512—just start your message with LOB. 💬 Or use the WhatsApp shortcut - https://wa.me/447796657512?text=LOB 📧 Prefer email? Drop me a line at [e-mail]. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who might need it—it really helps! Bryony xx SOME GREAT RESOURCES: Mind UK: www.mind.org.uk Samaritans: www.samaritans.org Beat Eating Disorders: www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Life of You, where we tackle your dilemmas and help you find solutions to life's tougher moments. This week, I'm joined by the incredible Jess Griffiths. Jess is a National Eating Disorder expert, the co-lead of Freed at the Morsley Clinic, and someone whose wisdom and compassion have changed so many lives, mine included. People with eating disorders don't always, A, think they're worthy of support, and B, don't always recognize they have a problem. So even though it will feel excruciatingly hard, it will be the best step you ever take. Your question's answered right after this.

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Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. I can start off with this one from Alison. I'm in my early 40s and having struggled with my weight for a number of years, I'm finally in a pretty good place with maintaining a balanced approach to food and exercise. The problem is that I have a very demanding job and I've developed a habit of rewarding myself with food, which often spirals into binge eating. There are times I'll eat an entire pack of biscuits or a multi pack of crisps in one go.

Sometimes I even find myself finishing everything in the house just to get it out of the cupboard and out of my mind. But afterwards, the guilt and depression set in hard. A part of me knows this cycle will make me feel worse, but in the moment, I just can't seem to stop. What are the first practical steps to end this horrific cycle and to stop feeling so awful about myself? That thing of eating

everything to get it out of the house really lands with me, Alison. Oh bless her and it's so hard but I mean actually offering that question is the first step, recognising it is the first step but it sounds like it would be really good to get some support with that. So I'd really recommend ringing the beat helpline, talking to someone there, chatting it through, but it also sounds like there's a lot going on. And then they get to the evening, and especially if they've kind of been a bit anxious,

if it's stressful, you come out of adrenaline mode, and then suddenly you're really hungry and you're stressed, and you're dealing with the buildup from the day. So I would say it's always thinking about getting that regular eating in. How many times have I said it to you, Brian? You know, it's what I bang on about regular eating. Well, yeah, because it's really important. I think, you know, you've said this to me that when treating binge eating disorder,

what you need to first be able to do is strip out how much of the binge eating is caused by hunger, just genuine hunger. And there are proper scientific reasons that anorexics often go into a pattern of binge eating. And that is because when you starve the body and you don't have to be very, very underweight to go into starvation syndrome of starvation at all. You can be any way for that to happen. If you deprive your body of food for a certain period of time, it will then because this is evolution and this is what keeps us alive, it will then want to eat more. Am I right? I'm saying all this like I know what I'm talking about.

Because of, you know, in part, the knowledge that you have now. This is very lovely to hear. So for a lot of us, the disordered eating patterns that are seen as so normal in the world, leave us literally bit, like the binging thing is like, it's not your fault. I mean, none of it's your fault. But the other thing, what I remember when we first started working together was actually, I mean, I was obviously when I was binging eating vast amounts of food,

but when you were like, no, you can just eat throughout the day because I had to log it in this app that you saw. And what I realised was I was actually got to the evening and I wasn't hungry because you can eat much more than we give ourselves credit for the week. And that was a really interesting thing. Like, oh, I am allowed to have a proper lunch and not just some, I don't know, leaves. Yeah. I mean, and that's sometimes I kind of think, you know, everyone's having a salad and like, I'm gonna be starving by two o'clock if I have a salad for lunch, like give me

a sandwich, you know? And I think there is this culture of potentially not eating as much during the day, but it's, you know, it's really not great. Regular eating, no more than three and a half hours between okay snack and meal. So what happens after three and a half hours? You go into starvation. Yeah, yeah. So your brain, you know, funny enough, we are hardwired to survive and therefore if salvation syndrome makes you more obsessed, depressed, anxious because your body's gearing up to go and hunt for food. So you can also be thinking about it, thinking, thinking, thinking.

Okay, so Alison makes this point, which I find really interesting, is that she says that she rewards herself with food. That in itself is language that I think tells us it's just food. You're allowed it. Yes. Do you know what I mean? And also you're allowed to like it. You're allowed to like food. Find pleasure in it. Yes. Yes. Why though is it that in the evening, because I hear this a lot about like night

time eating, I mean is it just that we get home and we want to switch off so we eat? Yeah, I mean I think yeah, there's lots of reasons. Or we might drink or we might, yeah. It does seem to be that the society in which we live, which is probably not built for how we've evolved. How we live our lives. Yeah. It's go, go, go, go, go. I kind of describe it like tension in a balloon. Yeah.

That builds up and pops in the evening. So I'm always really kind of thinking about, well, how can you let a bit of air out of the balloon during the day, whether that's emotional or whether it's eating enough. It's looking after yourself, isn't it? So that you don't get to the evening and it pops. And you need to turn to something to soothe the stress of the day. That's really interesting way to look at it. Just keep checking on yourself throughout the day.

And I think I spend quite a lot of time now as a therapist saying to people, take half an hour out. Switch off for half an hour. Go get in nature for half an hour. Do you know what? Your body is telling you, you can't make it through to the evening without processing some stuff. I think we all think we're a bit superhuman. Yeah, but I hear you say that and go, oh, no, but I just want to get it all done. So I'll just like, I'm not leaving this desk, but I will just be like, no, I'm staying here until I've got this work done. And then I'll allow myself. I mean, that's I mean, I don't know if you know this, Jess, but I am an addict. Well, the thing is, I mean, I wanted to say this earlier is that also that's part of the personality.

So I'm like, I'm an obsessive person, but I own it. And I'm like, I try and get obsessive about healthy things, but I can have rabbit holes. Name some of the rabbit holes. Just so that you're relatable to us, Jess, and you're not this like perfect psychotherapist, Zen psychotherapist. I'm happy to declare this one. True crime. I mean, Netflix true crime and then Googling it. And yeah, absolutely. Because I'm chair forensic person. Oh, I love the forensic programs. How clean is your crime scene? Oh, that's a great one. Is that an actual program? It certainly is. How clean is your crime scene?

They go to a crime scene and they tell you what's happened and then you see them clean it up. Oh yeah, but you're not supposed to touch it are you until you've done all your investigations? Yeah, but it's after that and they've got all their stuff on. I have so many friends who are obsessed with True Crime podcasts and True Crime Things and I have to tell you, I can't go there. Fair. It's too neggy.

That's the challenge, isn't it? Yeah. It's as someone probably predisposed to addiction, energy, channeling that energy, knowing where the negative line is important. But then, you know, part of my personality and I think an addict's personality is we've got a great drive,

we've got a lot of energy to bring to the world. And I'm kind of like, I need to place that energy somewhere. Yes, also it's just accepting it, isn't it? Rather than trying to change it, go, well, this is who I am and that is okay. I accept that I have this constant energy inside me and I have to do something with it. And either I am going to drink it away, drug it away, overeat it away, or I can be like,

should we go for a walk or a run or... It's okay to be obsessed with things. I think it's just where the line is between it controlling us, it punishing us. Yes. Is this thing nourishing you or punishing you? Is this meeting my needs or depriving me and making me need more things. It's different for everyone, so you need to recognise where the line is and spot it.

But yeah, let's bring that energy. Yeah, don't be ashamed of it. Don't shame yourself for it. The other thing I wanted to ask you, Jess, is you've mentioned now about calling beat. Now, what would you advise to someone sitting at home? I would find that quite a terrifying thing to have to do. So can you talk us through what happens when you call,

who picks up, what do they say, what can you say to kind of just start the process off? Really good point. I think it's terrifying, isn't it, to think of picking up the phone? I think one of the lovely things is you can DM them on social media. You can use the message chat and I think sometimes that's a little bit less scary. But yeah, when you get through them they will be really super gentle with

you. Obviously they've got to take some details. Generally they will explore what's going on for you, give you time and space to talk about it. And I think as we said, people with eating disorders don't always, A, think they're worthy of support and B, don't always recognise they have a problem. So even though it will feel excruciatingly hard, it will be the best step you ever take. You know, obviously reaching out to a friend, if there's someone that you know has got a fairly good relationship with food and you can even just share what's going on, because I think sometimes it's the friend that does all the research as well and is able to support you. The key thing is to talk to someone. Be heard.

Yeah. Second email from Mark, who has realized he has a disordered eating problem and has finally worked out the courage to chat to his GP about it after a three week wait. He suggested I go on a specific diet to take control of the situation and that really set alarm bells ringing as I was quite obsessive about diets when I was at school. I tried to explain this to the doctor but he reassured me it was a healthy diet. I'm not really sure about this. Any advice? Ah, well, good on you, Mark, for, you know, emailing in. I think we know that actually

doctors, GPs, get less than two hours training on eating disorders in their whole career. And so typically GPs need to know about an awful lot. They have a very tricky job. However, you know, we do know they're more likely to kind of look at someone's weight and prescribe something to do with weight loss than eating disorders. And so it can feel really hard to pick yourself up from that experience to then go back and say actually, no, it wasn't this. And actually actually if it is an eating disorder then you know it's not going to be a helpful intervention in fact it could do a lot of harm. So what should you be asking for? Going into a GP and saying I think I have an eating disorder, I want this and that's where Beats Brilliant they've literally got a leaflet for GPs so

you don't have to remember everything to say you You can go in and read it and it'll tell you everything that you need to say to the GP. You know, I don't know about you, but you just kind of go in and you think, oh, I've got five minutes. Freeze. You know, and when it's something really big in your life, it's really hard to do that. So yeah, either take someone with you, write it down or get the beat leaflet. But you know, it's really important that you feel heard. If in doubt, just hand it over. I've had people do that and just say,

I can't speak, just read this, please, to their GP. And the GP will find that helpful. Yeah. [♪ music playing. A&M theme song playing. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M logo sound. A&M Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details. Tis the season to treat your family to the great taste of Popeyes. The festive family box is here to make your holidays brighter

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I can guarantee you it'll be the best decision you've made all day. David asks, is there a difference between occasional overeating and binge eating? What are the signs that it's binge eating? Yeah, really good question, David, because we're on this spectrum of overeating to eating disorder. But I suppose overeating, it tends to be just like an extra couple of pizza slices or an extra, even eating a bar of chocolate that really-

It really annoys me when people say to me, oh yeah, I know about binge eating. I have a whole bar of chocolate at night and I'm like, I don't think that's binge eating, I think that's just eating. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, this is the thing,

like there are people that would, I don't know, yeah, they have quite disordered views of what a binge is. And we all overeat. We all have times when we'll eat more or less. And if you're eating intuitively and hopefully in tune with your body, you just navigate that without thinking too much about it. It is actually when your body and brain are aligned, quite simple, you know, to respond to the cues. However, binge eating is sort of much different. You

know, the secretive nature of it, you know, is really important, hiding wrappers and things like that. But the emotional drive, the power behind it to eat food, a large amount of food very quickly, out of control, even almost dissociative, some people would say. Yeah, well, actually, disassociating is kind of the point of it, isn't it? Yeah. That's what I would say. And that is incredibly different to see an extra bar of chocolate. Yeah.

Right. Finally, Mel, from Dawn, I've been thinking a lot about my relationship with food and binge eating. It honestly feels like there's a part of my brain that's planning a binge before I've even realised it. Sometimes it's like that part of me tricks me into buying certain foods knowing that once I'm home it'll take over and lead to a binge. So I've started just not keeping any bingeable foods around and that seems to help. But I'm wondering if this is a realistic as a long term solution. Can avoiding triggers entirely really work over time or is there a better way to handle it? That's such a good question.

That's such a good question. Because, you know, I'm not the expert here, but at the beginning of dealing with binge eating disorder, not having bingeable foods in your house is really just very useful. It's a bit like at the beginning of recovery from alcoholism, not going to the pub is just helpful. If you go to a hair salon every day, you'll probably end up getting a haircut, that kind of thing.

Yes. But over time, you can't avoid triggers, things that are triggers. You can't go through life avoiding whatever. What's your view on this? So I think, first of all, I kind of, I mean, recovery definitions are different. I think it's the power to say yes and no to food. And I think initially, yes, to create that stable framework where you feel a bit more in control. If in that first stage, it's like don't have trigger foods

in the house, I will say have it outside of the house or have it somewhere where you don't binge because you may just feel a bit more contained doing it in that way. But really, you know, create that safety framework but then you really need to introduce those foods and make them safe. And we do that through kind of traffic lighting foods. So it might be that your green food, safe foods,

never binge on, amber foods can happen in a dodgy moment, but generally okay. Red foods, no, no. And generally we want to progress everything to the green list so there's no trigger food, no bad food. Can I tell you something I'm really proud of? Chorizo is now on my green list. Yeah. I have a whole thing of cooking chorizo that has been in my fridge for five days now and I haven't even looked at it. Oh my gosh, can you even imagine that? Like a few years back? Genuinely no. Genuinely you can't. Or like McCoy's cheddar and onion.

Like I don't actually, crisps are the one thing that I sort of say to my husband, can we not have massive packets? My problem is those are still amber for me. It's a bit like alcohol. Like I can't, I can't just have a couple and then put a clip on the resealable bag and then put it back in the cupboard. But that, once again, it takes time. You know, if I look back to my own recovery and how long it took to shift all the foods to the green list, oh my gosh, it probably took about five years because it was really scary. So I don't think there's any pressure. It's just recognizing you need to take the

power out of the like the emotion behind it really. Can we also talk just briefly before we end, you spoke about the definitions of recovery are very different for different people. So obviously, if you're in recovery from alcoholism, my sobriety, it has to be continuous. Otherwise, I'm not going to recover from it. But obviously, I would say that with food, slips are sort of probably a very normal part of recovery from an eating disorder.

So I'm much less tough on myself in terms of what I consider recovery from binge eating as what I consider recovery. I wouldn't allow myself a night on the booze. That would be for me a relapse, right? A slip, you know, a drink would be a slip. Whereas if I am a bit binge-y from time to time, I go, oh, Briony, what's gone on in your day to day that's made you feel like that? Shall we address our needs in a different way? Amazing. Amazing.

Amazing. I mean, I would consider myself fully recovered, but I'm like over 20 years down the line. And you know, I think for me, the whole journey of food and emotions and just generally understanding myself, you know, able to get to a place where thankfully it doesn't affect me. I don't ever weigh myself. I never think about what I'm eating. I love running. And so I never think about what I'm eating. I love running. And so I do think people can get fully well. But I think it takes time and it takes time and

and that awareness and actually, you know, you're still a couple of years in, you know, it does take I also like just cherish those moments where you go like I had this moment this year where I on a Friday evening went into my freezer and I got out some pasta that I'd made and then I'd frozen the leftovers, right? And then I reheated it and I ate it like a normal person, this food that I had essentially batch cooked. And the fact that I hadn't made this massive vat of pasta and eaten it all, and that there was leftovers that I froze and that I'd unfrozen them,

and then I'd just eaten that normally at seven o'clock on a Friday, and then I'd just gone and watched some television, was like genuinely the most momentous occasion. In fact, I made a reel about it because I could not get over it. I was like, look at me doing full on adulting. You've worked so hard to get there. Oh my gosh. You know, you have absolutely smashed it and you are such a motivated person to share all this.

But I know how much that means to people listening. There is life on the other side in recovery and, you know, it is possible. And Jess, I'm really grateful for all your help in enabling me to get to this side. And I hope that everyone listening has picked up some wisdom and gems and information because I'm really proud of this little podcast and what we're doing imparting this information to people. Jess Griffiths, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Briannie. Love you lots. A huge thank you to Jess Griffiths for joining me today. If you thought today's episode was helpful,

please share it with someone who might need to hear it and don't forget to give us a little rating, a review and most of all a follow. So my recommendation this week is a bit of a weird one, but I like to think you love me for my weirdness and that is a Shaq T-mat. Jesus is looking at me like what on earth is she talking about? It's essentially a bed of nails. You can get them on like Amazon. They're not rubber, but they are sort of plastic. It's like if you think of, you know, on a hairbrush, you think of the very fine tooth kind of comby bits. If you just think of

hundreds of those on a mat that you can lie down on. So it's basically like a modern version of the ancient Indian practice of using a bed of nails for meditation. I bought it during lockdown and it comes in and out of my life. You know, it spends quite a lot of time gathering dust under my bed, but in the last week or so, I have been starting my day by lying down on it and doing some

guided meditations for 20 minutes. I really genuinely think it makes a difference to my well-being on a day-to-day basis. Maybe it's just the act of doing something and also maybe I'm just, I am just weird. But once you kind of get through the discomfort of lying on a bed of nails, it does feel kind of euphoric and I feel like it gets your circulation going. I don't know, it's like I like doing it as well when I'm starting to feel that slump, you know. I was going to say at like three in the afternoon, but frankly it can happen at 11 in the morning. Sometimes I just stand on it for a couple of minutes and it sort of just brings me back

into the room. I think it costs something like 40 quid and it's lasted me, well, four years. Anyway, that's my recommendation. Bed of nails. Be kind to yourself, but also sometimes lie on a Bed of nails. Be kind to yourself but also sometimes lie on a bed of nails. See you Monday!