The Liz Moody Podcast - 15 Love Lessons From 15 Years In A Relationship

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

My husband Zack joins me for our 15th anniversary to share 15 things we’ve learned throughout the course of our relationship that have made it so successful–with a surprise twist! To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order my new book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  This episode is sponsored by: AG1: visit drinkag1.com/lizmoody and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today.  Caraway: visit Carawayhome.com/LIZM or use code LIZM for 10% off. Seed: go to seed.com/lizmoody and use code LIZMOODY for 25% off your first month. Puori: go to puori.com/LIZMOODY and use promo code LIZMOODY for 20% sitewide. Cymbiotika: use code LIZMOODY on cymbiotika.com to get 15% off plus free shipping on subscription orders. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast.  This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Liz Moody podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a best-selling author and long-time journalist. And I am joined today by a very special guest, my husband, Zach. Zach, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I thought it would be really fun to do a special show because we had a special anniversary coming up. We had our 15-year anniversary coming up. And I thought it would be really fun to do a show that was 15 things that we learned in 15 years of being in a relationship.

Which I still think is a great idea. And we're going to do that. And we are indeed going to do that. But there is one problem with it if you want to explain. It turns out that our 15 year anniversary was a year ago. It was a shock. And we found out when we took our sweet cat Bella to the vet and they're like, how old is Bella? And we're like, oh, she's 15.

You said that. And I was like, no, she's not. And you're like, yes, she is. And I was like, no way. My sweet baby angel is not anywhere near 15 years old. Yeah. And then we kind of had to... Maybe three or four. Maybe five. And she acts like it. But we had to do the math backwards and realize that then that meant that we had kind of... We didn't miss it. No. We just calculated like a year low. We did 14, 14, 16. And I think that's...

Cool. That's okay. Yeah. Yeah. So this is our 16th anniversary of dating, meeting, et cetera, et cetera. All the things. Rapidly accelerating into love is what I call it. It's really nice to have one anniversary for everything other than getting married. We don't have to be like, oh, this is our first kiss anniversary, blah, blah, like we dove in. I think the audience doesn't see what I mean. But this is our six, no, this is our 15th. No, this is our 16th dating anniversary. You see how we got into this problem in the first.

I don't know how old I am. I don't know all of these things. Numbers are hard for me. And they change every year. Time is a construct. But anyways, we're going to do 15 things that we've learned in 15 years of relationship. because I feel like it sounds better. And if we come across any bonuses along the way that get us up to 16, all the better.

And you have eight and I have seven. So I think maybe more onus on me to come with a bonus. No, no. I think it can be a team effort. Well, team bonus. Well, team bonus together. Because I have eight, should I start? Please.

Okay. All right. Number one, I stole from the New York City subway system, which I've always thought is a great source of philosophical wisdom when you can understand what they're saying, which is few and far between. It is, if you see something, say something. And I believe it's not used in this context on the New York City subway. But that is the idea that in a relationship, if you see something that you love about your partner,

that you admire, that you feel like they're doing well, don't keep it to yourself. I did this for way too many years where I would notice that you looked really cute one day or you said something that was really brilliant, or you were doing something really cool at work, and I was really impressed how you'd handled a situation. And for some reason, I kept that compliment close to my chest. And a few years ago, I decided that I would make an effort to vocalize the things that I was already thinking, even if it felt silly, even if I felt like a fan girl a little bit. but we always want to hear good things about ourselves. And our partner's compliments can often mean the most,

but because sometimes our partner assumes, or we assume about our partner, like they know we love them. Of course, that's the assumed thing in this world. We neglect to give the people who the compliments would mean the most to those compliments. I think that's really sweet. And I appreciate you, you know,

saying all those wonderful things to me as a result. Have you noticed a difference? Did you notice when I sort of turned up the dial on that? I think we talked about it because obviously we process everything together. Yeah, process a lot of stuff. Probably a couple years ago, we had a lot of long car drives that we could really like lean into that type of stuff.

Or hikes forever. I'm like, the side by side is when you have good conversations in a car on a hike. It's this Cosmo article I read when I was 12 years old. I have not validated it, but I found it to be so true in my life. Long conversations are best had side by side. or in single file as the hiking may go, depending on the width of your trail. Depends on the width of the trail. Okay.

All right. I mean, honestly, that probably should be an additional point for the New York City subway, right? Like, if you see someone doing something great, just tell them. Right? Like, sure, sure. If you see something scary, tell the police. They were like, I'm busy trying to get to a meeting. Stop talking to me.

I took my headphones out for this. But I think we all really benefit from a dose of, being built up in any sort of context and especially so much more so when it comes from our partner someone who knows us who is in our heads who maybe knows especially what we might really like to hear and what can be really valuable or what we need to hear yeah that is so true I find that you give me the best compliments because you know my weaknesses you know what I'm insecure about you know what I'm working on you know where I have been where I am and where I'm trying to go and your compliments mean so much as a result of all of that, which really positions

you, again, to make the biggest difference for your partner with the compliments that you give them. I have all your secrets and I'm going to use them for good. That's so sweet. Okay. If you see something, say something, your turn. So that ties into one I have nicely, which is question if something is easier than you think it is. Question if something is easier than you think it is. Your rule kind of uses the nice New York City subway copywriters to make it. sound cooler. You didn't actually come up with the great phrasing of your. But I think we in a lot of times in our relationship can feel like it is a little bit hard to do something sweet or to just put

in that extra effort, right? Like I'm busy. I'm at work. Things are hard. I have other stuff going on. Maybe something in the family, something professionally. Life can get in the way. And as a result, I think it can be really easy to let just the things that can really light your partner up fall by the wayside. And there's so many things that are easy. And I think one, like seeing something and saying something, it is an easy thing, right? Like, okay, it's front of mind. It's come to me in whatever kind of gestalt moment of, I saw you do this thing, made me think of you. And I'm saying that. And that's great when it comes to you in a vision. But I think there's also an intentionality that we can add to learning and just kind of putting a little bit of back-in work into coming up with the things that are really going to light our partner up.

So, like, for you, I know that you love small treats, small delicious treats, often of the more sugary persuasion, often of the, like, European and far-flung varietal, but not like, like, like, not fancy ones, right? Like, what is that, like, Milky Way Krispy Roll? like kindergarten chocolate, you know? Chocolat. Thank you. You can tell it from afar. And I guess in the same way, sorry, I'm not copying you. When I see those things, I know that like, oh, that's like a really quick thing.

That's not you see something and say something, though. No, no. But I've internalized that and a list of a dozen other, like, small things that over the years, either from whimsy, just like, oh, like, I've noticed this, I'll write it down. Or have been like, what are some actual, like, intentional things that I can sit down and think what would make Liz? happy right now. And particularly, and what I like about the way that you phrase this, even though I was confused at first, is what are the easy things? Because sometimes I think we're like, oh, it's a heavy lift to make my partner happy. What do they even want? I'm exhausted from work. I'm exhausted from

all of the ins and outs of day-to-day life. But I love the idea that you're like, identify the easy things that you can do that would mean an outsized amount to your partner. Exactly. And that, and that that's where I think the kind of meditating on the thing could be really important. Like if it turns out that you think about it, you're like, when I gave her a card that time for that special event, she just went nuts. She was so happy. Like did it. Okay, how hard's a card? Okay, how do you make that easier for yourself? Buy a bunch of cards. Have a sock drawer with like 20 great different cards. Is there anything you think that I do that's the equivalent of getting you little drinks. Yes, absolutely. That's to keep it totally on like consumables, but you're not a

coffee drinker. And for me, like, I'm working on it. I respect that about you. But I am and I do like pour over every morning, even when I'm drinking decaf, I do pour over, which has been more often actually recently, sidebar. And it's not every day that you get up before me. In fact, it's pretty rare. It is rare. And for that reason, it actually ends up being more special. I have a team in London. And so I'm up early. But some days I sleep in, some days I get a really bad night's sleep, which is all the more reason. Like when I wake up and I can wake up to the smell of like somebody like making me coffee and having that there, oh, my heart. It just explode.

I mean, you're great at making coffee. It's like three steps. I was so proud of that too because I became good at making coffee significantly before I became even remotely interested in coffee. That's true. And I did that fully for you. So I could do that as an act of love for you. And that really makes me cheer up a little bit. And it's dangerous too because it's a pourover and people get so persnickety about their pourovers.

Oh, no, I'm going to go all around gently the edges to get all the little extra coffee grabs. Done. Yeah. That's it. Okay. I love that. So identify. And I wonder if that's something, do you think you can even ask your partner, what are some little things that would make an outsized difference to you?

Yeah. I think absolutely. That's an even easier thing. Yeah. And actually, in some ways, being asked shows that you. care. I think people can say, oh, wow, like, you care to ask, right? You care to actually take that initiative to put in that intentionality and to wanting to do something for me, like, even better, even easier. I love that. It's a great one, babe. Thanks. Okay. Number two for me

is question the shoulds. I feel like this has been a recurrent theme in our relationship, but also our lives, just trying to live with a lot of intentionality. And this is something that I feel like people do not talk about enough, but intentionality begets intentionality. So we became intentional drinkers two years ago, maybe? Not quite, but this August will be like two years ago. So we became intentional drinkers two years ago. And I've found that that one decision of saying, when I drink alcohol, I want to have a reason for it. I'm not going to drink because it's 5 p.m.

I'm not going to drink because I'm out with my friends. I want to want to drink alcohol and I want to feel the way that alcohol makes me feel in those moments. And I've significantly scaled back my drinking as a result of this. But having that one decision to be more intentional in my life has made me so much more intentional in every other part of my life and everything else that I'm consuming in the way that I'm spending my moments and my days. you've recently had the journey of becoming more intentional with your caffeine consumption, which I'm not sure would have happened if we had to become intentional drinkers. What do you think? No.

I think you're right. I think it is a cascading. It's a cascading effect. Which is great knowledge to have because it means if you can bring that element of intentionality into one part of your life, it will pay off in dividends in the rest of the parts of your lives, which I love. I love something that you put in a little work somewhere and you get a lot of outcomes in other parts in addition to the first place that you put in the work.

So the shoulds are a great place to begin to bring that intentionality into your life. Should you get engaged just because you've been together for a certain amount of time? Should you move in because you've been together a certain amount of time? Should you have the structure inside your relationship be a certain way just because that's what your friend's relationship looks like or that's what your parents' relationship looks like? Should you have kids at a certain time? Should you even have kids, which is a big discussion that we, have on the podcast all the time, there are so many ways to live a good life. And reflecting

this back to myself and the things I've learned in our 15-16 years of being together, I was a lot more driven by shoulds early in our relationship. I felt like there were relationship milestones we needed to hit. I felt like there were things I needed you to do in a very performative way to make me feel loved. And because of the focus on the shoulds, I was missing all of the very real ways that you were loving me. That makes me so sad retrospectively.

It makes me so sad that I got caught up in this idea of what a relationship should be that I couldn't appreciate how beautiful my relationship was. Yeah, and I take a moment for that because I know that was hard for both of us in times that something felt like it should have happened and maybe one of us wasn't quite ready for it.

it's also, I think, really interesting too because we started dating quite young. Yeah. How could we be so young now and be at our 15th slash 16th anniversary? Right. So like, yeah, 11th birthday came around. I said, joking. Joking. But I do think one of the issues that we ran into was that our shoulds contradicted each other. So our relationship should like, okay, maybe we should be married, but also maybe a little bit more of a modern should, but I think very, everyone will kind of understand. And like, you should also enjoy your 20s. You should also get your career straight. You should also do all these other kind of things. And so you get these shoulds.

And if you listen to them all and you're not prioritizing them equally and with the kind of thought and care. Yeah. Well, or you get to fights with your partner and things. But I just picture like a cartoon character with like a message from over here, a message from over here, a message from over here, a message from over here. And they're just like, oh my gosh. And then they spiral and explode. Yeah, perfect. Yeah.

And I think a lot of people feel like that because we are subject to. so much messaging on social media from our families, from our friends. All of our friends are like, oh, you're going on vacation. I bet you're going to get engaged. And then you end up not enjoying your vacation because you're waiting to get engaged the entire time. We are subject to probably the most messaging we've ever been subjected to as people, historic, like as a species.

100%. And, yeah, I think that being aware of that is the first step and then consciously choosing what we want our messages to be, what we want our voice to say, even tapping into. to what our voice sounds like, how we can get in tune with it, how we can even hear it amidst all of that other noise. Right. And I think you can extrapolate that to a lot of the greater kind of aspects of your life as well.

But with your relationship, it matters. There's a lot of knock on effects that the people you spend your time with have on your life. 100%. Your relationship is your relationship. Your relationship is not your parent's relationship. Your relationship is not television character's relationship. Your relationship is not your friend's relationship. At every single moment, my relationship has been.

made better by asking what do I want, what does my partner want, and what should our relationship look like, and how can we carve our own path with this one life that we have for it? Yeah. Your turn. It's interesting with the messaging stuff, because I do feel like it basically adds this extra burden on you as a person. I do think, like, we are now having to make more. Like you're having to consciously fight back instead of just asking me.

But there's also, there's whole other layers there in that, like, I as a woman couldn't even begin to define what I wanted my relationship to look like. 60, 70 years ago. Well, and also maybe putting in that little bit of extra work early might save you all sorts of thinking back and forth, bopping around and being unsure about what you want later on the line. Although I would say do it early, but also be amenable to it changing over time. Yeah. I think that my ideal relationship with you look so different now than it did five years ago, then it did 10 years ago, than it did 15 years ago. And being okay with that shifting and changing is really important as well. Yeah, that evolution, I think, is really important.

So I also have a don't be boxed in by social expectations of what's normal. So I'm going to come up with something. No, no, no. I feel like it's so similar. I mean, not being boxed in by the social expectations of what people kind of expected of you is what we've been talking about for the last couple of minutes. And there is this, what is it? Now it's a prevention is worth a pound of cure. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, I'm actually now analyzing that statement. It's like a weird statement. No, you know what I was thinking, though. So Zach's dad is 96. Sure. And so I joke sometimes that Zach's a boomer because he was raised by the greatest generation. Sure.

And that definitely feels like a boomer phrase. The second time this has come up today. Oh, God. In terms of just like talking about what's things that take work, right? I think figuring out what comes easier for each partner is also another way of really saving yourself labor, heartache, really making life flow happy and easy for the other person. So this is different than if it's easy and it makes your partner happy, do it. Yeah, apparently a lot of my tips are about convenience and not locking the boat.

No, I mean, finding these is important, but okay, explain. I'd be a steady person. So let's say between the two of us, right, cleaning is hard for you. Would you say? We might agree with that. I wouldn't make that assertion. I've heard you make that assertion. You would absolutely make that assertion. It wouldn't make that assertion on camera. Actually, you've made the opposite assertion where you're like, it's not something you're born being good at. Like, you could certainly make an effort to be really realistic. Yeah, but recently we discovered your yearbook. Your mom sent a box of all of this old stuff.

My yearbook and report cards. Report cards. Yes. And one of the report cards, multiple report cards for multiple years and different phases of life even. And they're like, Liz doesn't. have good boundaries with her personal, like, areas, which is definitely makes me feel like you went to a school that, like, had personal areas because, like, my school, like, you had a desk and then you left and then you came back and you, like, had to repopulate that desk or whatever. Yeah, I don't know what that's about, but almost all of my report cards were some equivalent of Liz is really great in class. She's a great reader. She's a great communicator. If she could get her mess under control, if she could become more organized, she might amount to something like. They hedge the word mess in, like, all sorts of fun language.

Like her personal space. And I think one of them was like, maybe get her her own desk through the summer and like practice keeping that like a nice little tidy place. Yeah. That's something that comes so naturally for me, like being like easy and tidy. And maybe it's because growing up we had so much stuff everywhere in my house that I was like. I need to be clean. Yeah. I was like I got to get this stuff out of the way.

Or have like built like a very strong memory of where all the things are in the house. It's like a mental map of treasure map in your head to like find your keys. So that's like a really easy thing for me is to keep our house like more clean. And so that is something that I delegate to myself. This tip is going to be like, do the thing. Like delegate the tasks and the chores that are easier. But it's not just tasks and chores. I think there's like emotional stuff in there too.

But like no, I have one that piggybacks off this that I will say is another easy thing, but isn't just tasks and chores. Oh great. expand it so it's not just task and throws, but you can talk about cash and trust. You're going to save me. Yes. Don't worry. But like I take planning like our calendar, especially like our social calendar has always

been so much easier for you than it is for me because I find myself like, oh yeah, I'm going to make that plan with so and so and we'll make sure we have like whatever this, you know, dinner thing that we have been thinking about doing for months. And then like four days before. You feel like you marinate on plans for a long time. And that's funny. I over-ruminate on plans. I 100% get up in my head and I'm like, oh, but what are we going to do about dinner?

Yeah. Then I'm like, I got to go find. What's the best dinner place? Yeah. And you're just like, I just like, that's where like the high profile plan, I can really come. It's like, like, you know, like, oh, find a good trivia night. I'm like, oh, God. Where's the best trivia night?

Right. So your point is that we could sit around and harangue the fact that I should be cleaning more or I could say, gosh, I make all of our plans. Why won't you step up and make some plans in our relationship? But if it's easier for me, I can step up to the plate for those things. And if it's easier for you, you can step up to the plate. Yeah. And I think being honest with what is easy for one another and being very communicative about what's easy for one another, that's the recommendation here is I think it's really easy to be like, Liz hasn't done the dishes in a week. And then you're like, well, if we're talking about dishes, then man, that's unfair.

But like, that's not how labor works. That's not how shared labor and shared household stuff works. there's just too many things for people not to specialize. The mattress that you sleep on is one of the highest exposures that you have. Like, if it's off gassing, you're breathing that in for basically a third of your life. And most conventional mattresses are loaded with synthetic foams, flame retardants, microplastics, and more. Plus, if it's not comfy, you're going to be tossing and turning.

You're going to be really hot. And sleep is the foundation of health. It is so important. Because of all of this, if I were not going to invest in any other part of my house, no other things in my house, I would invest in my mattress. And in fact, I have four years well before I had much money to spend on any of these things because it is such a big needle mover. The birch mattress is incredible. It is made with organic cotton, natural latex, and ethically sourced wool. So it has literally no off-gassing. You can not smell anything right when you unbox it. It has no

micropastics, no synthetic foams or flame retardants. And the wool makes it so, breathable, which if you've listened to this podcast for more than five minutes, you know that I run very, very hot. Like, I am a furnace. Zach has basically accepted that sleeping next to me is like sleeping next to like a little fire. And the birch mattress has been a game changer for that. It's made me sleep so much better. Like I can see my sleep score going up because I'm not hot all night long. It's also hypoallergenic, which is really worth paying attention to if you find yourself waking up stuffy or congested. Dust mites in a conventional mattress can actually impact your breathing and your sleep quality without you even realizing it. And again, we need to be able to breathe to get good sleep

and getting good sleep is the foundation of our health. And then comfort wise, Zach sleeps on his back and then I sleep on my side and my stomach. So we have two completely different sleep styles. And we both wake up feeling really good, no aches and pains. CNN actually named the Birch mattress, the best mattress for side sleepers. And Wired named it the best organic mattress period. So there you go. Birch has options for every kind of sleeper in your household. They have three firmness layers. I like the Lux Natural, which is the medium one. And then parents, they even have a Birch Kids natural mattress.

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greater impact on their little tiny systems. And they're running around on their little paws and then they're licking them. So I'm protecting them too. Brand basics is now available at Target. Amazon and branchbasics.com. So it's easier than ever to make the switch. And if you want to grab their premium starter kit, you can use code Liz Moody for 15% off at branchbasics.com. That's code Liz Moody for 15% off the premium starter kit at branchbasics.com. And when they ask you where you heard about us, please make sure to mention the show. That is branch basics.com and use code Liz Moody. And we haven't done the fair play cards in our relationship, but I do want to give them a shout out. They're from Eve And they're free online. We have a whole episode with E Brodsky. But one of the nice things that doing those cards does is it allows people to have those conversations. Look, it seems really hard for you to be clean. It seems pretty easy for me. I'm going to take ownership of that. And then that takes the resentment off the table. And here's the marker that I have that ownership. Yes. I have ownership. Here's what ownership looks like. Here's what it means to have a clean house. Here's what it means to have a robust social calendar. And isn't that valuable? Other plans that I make going to the doctor. Here's what. what it means to go to the, here's what means to get the checkups that you need. Thanks so much for those. You are welcome. This is why married men live longer, according to all research. But yeah, I think that we've done our own sort of ad hoc version of that. And it's really nice because it does take resentment off the table and it takes guilt off the table.

Instead of me sitting around and being like, oh my gosh, she's cleaning again. I feel so awful about it. Are you like jamming the plates and the dishwasher and being like, gosh, place into a dishwasher. Whatever. Neatly organizing the plates and the dishwasher, but with a tone of anger. Sure. Yeah. You can clink the silverware just right.

But instead of us doing that, it's like we each know that we're contributing our equal weight, but in different ways. Right. I think that's great. So to bring that around to not just plans and not just labor. Let's do it. So I have do a long hug during or right at the end of a fight. Oh, that isn't easy. and valuable thing.

But I was going to say, you are so much better at initiating it. And I think that's something that you've recognized that you find easier than me. And instead of getting resentful about that, you're like, it costs me so much less than it costs Liz. Honestly, it gives me something. And it gives you something. So often you initiate that. And this is a tip that came from a couples therapist that we had, I believe. And she made us do it.

We were on like a Zoom session with her and we were fighting about something that had. Yeah, during the pandemic. A long protracted fight that we'd had. And she said, why don't you stand up and give each other a long hug? And I was like, no. We'll do that. Like, yeah, we might do that later. She's like, no, do it now.

And she's like, no, I'm going to watch it. And we were like, okay. I'm standing there. Like, my arms are crossed. I'm so annoyed about it. And Zach's like, come on. And we both kind of like ease into this hug. We probably haven't touched each other in like a few days at least.

It was one of those bites where you're kind of like skulking around the house a little bit. And we hugged each other and it was so stiff and it was so begrudging at first. But something magical starts to happen at like that 20, 30, 45 second mark where your body literally on a hormonal level starts to release chemicals that remind you of your bond to this person that relax you, that make you feel calmer and more connected. and all of these positive attributes that you can bring in to whatever situation you were in. It doesn't mean the fight was over. It doesn't mean all of our issues were magically resolved, but it made us into a team again. And I have always been a person who's like, no, I need to resolve things and things need to feel good before I am positive towards you in any way. And that's been completely to my own detriment because when we are fighting, when we're in the bad places, when we're going to be going to be going,

through hard things, we will be so much better off if we are doing that as a team. If we're doing that as a connected unit that is always going to benefit the end result and how it feels to get to the end result. That's great. That's a good tip. So the tip is do a long hug if you're fighting, if somebody can bring themselves to initiate it, which I've tried to get better at, although I also do the obnoxious thing of when I initiate it. I'm like, did you notice? I just initiated that. Didn't you think that was great? Wow. A little pat on the bag.

But whoever can bring themselves to initiate it and then stay in it longer than you think. Like aim for a 60 second hug. It makes all the difference in the world. Yeah. And what's the study with eye contact where if you like stare into somebody's eyes for 60 seconds, like you're in love, right? Or something like that. I did that with a guy in one of my architecture studios at Berkeley just randomly.

Did it work? I mean, I think about him sometimes. Like, yeah, we had like some real heart to hearts after that. And like it was interesting thing because like the professor had known about the research and study. It was completely contextually taken away. They were trying to do some perspective changing type of thing. And then they like told us all the research and we're like, oh. I guess we're in life now.

Hey, buddy. But what about that? I think our connections with other people are so important. And I think it's really easy to think of ourselves as islands. And even when you're in a relationship, it's kind of still easy to think of yourself as an island in certain contexts. And just remembering that part of being a person is connecting with other people, like part of actually functioning as a person. I think like we're a communal species. We need stimulus from others.

Like if you have not gotten that stimulus from other people, if you have not like engaged other people, maybe you're not really thinking straight. That's interesting. So not only are you going to feel better going into the fight. But, like, actually, you're optimizing your brain to work its best. I think that you're certainly making your brain function better. Yeah, you definitely are. There's actually really interesting research, both from the Gottman's that talk about our physiology in a fight and how we need to do things that calm us on a physiological level to be able

to think to a place where we can resolve a fight. So that would speak to that. And then also there's research from Dr. Robert Waldinger with the Harvard School of Adult Development and their study, which is the longest running study to date. of health and happiness in human beings. It's over 80 years. And they found that our relationships and the strength of our relationships is the single biggest predictor of longevity and of happiness.

So those two things would, like there's real stuff happening. It doesn't just feel good. Yeah. Yeah. There's a wide body of like, yeah. There's research. Okay. Yeah.

Well, with the socialness and the people and the whatnot, I have one that's help your partner cultivate their support system beyond. you. Beyond you. I'm pointing at Liz. And the idea there is that we expect modern relationships, we expect so much from our partners. We expect them to be our end all, be all, and everything. Not everybody, but I think this is generally recognized. It's like we expect them to, you know, bolster us when things get hard. We expect them to be our entertainment sources. We expect them to spend all of their time with us. And then we also expect them to be like functioning, working humans in society and everything else like that, like co-contributors to the family, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada.

And I think as you get into that and as that is kind of propagated through the sideguise in general, we're running into a situation where people are rolling back their relationships with the rest of their support system. And this applies especially to Western cultures. And I think it applies especially to men, honestly. Sure, and we can get to that. But like we've already, as a couple, scaled back from the community. Do you know what I want to say that? Is that like when you're single and when you're younger, your support system,

like you picture the show friends, they are each other's family units. They capture this very specific time in your 20s. And then by the end of the show, they're all going off and forming their own individual islands in their two-person partnership. I didn't have a good friend's analogy. and I felt like that tip was lacking a good friend's analogy. So thank you so much for that. But is that what you're kind of referencing? No.

No. I was talking about as families developed, we are not growing up with as many aunts and uncles and neighbors and actually the village model where people are, they're expected that there will be some sharing of labor. Like people are much smaller nuclear families now. Then you have the friends analogy, which I think is so strong, right?

We kind of get used to having more of a community. and then people feel like they have to kind of like shunt into these nuclear families again. So they've now kind of tasted what it's like to have. I think that it's one of the reasons we miss college so much is because it's this very brief time we get to experience living communally as adults. We're part of a village. We're part of a system. We're part of a whole. And then quickly we're not ripped away from it, but we are told that our goals should not be that.

Which is another. It's a should. Yeah, it's a huge should. It's that success looks like extreme isolation. in some ways. Like if you're very successful, you can have a big house with just your family and nobody else living in it and nobody else nearby. You don't have to see anyone. Yeah. It's a really interesting thing that we do in our society. It is really funny that we're like, oh, you want roommates. And I know like there's some college, like fiscal dynamics in this narrative. But like, oh,

you want roommates. You want the real colleague experience. You want to have a community. You want to have your whole floor there. Again, it's probably more for them than for you when they're saying it. But there's some real reality to the fact that that that is a real. really kind of, I think, interesting and generally beneficial way for people to, young people to enter the adult world. And you see it kind of protracted with roommates and all this other kinds of stuff. But then, yes, success becomes getting rid of all these things that cultivate your community, cultivate your support system, get people in your life that you can go to who aren't your partner when things are hard. Because things will be hard in the future

that involve your partner. And if you don't have people, you know, oh damn. Or maybe you both have something hard going on, let's say with family or something like that, sometimes down the road. And you don't have time to just like basically have one person come for the other. You're both going through something. Work kids. There will be things that test you more than you've been tested now, probably. I think most people, as age happens and life goes on, that will be the case. So building up that support system of other people. You're building your chosen village, you know, or just a village. I guess people still choose to live in the village. Is there anything that you think that I could do as your partner, if somebody's listening and they're like, I wish

my partner had more support outside of me. I wish they had a more robust network outside of me. Is there anything that they can do that isn't nagging? Yeah. And I think you just like dropped a good couple of gender implications in that, that like skew it just a little bit there because I do think that that is the risk of seeming naggy. And then like we said from the very beginning. Which is to your point, a very gendered word. Very gendered word. And then to the conversation at the beginning, I think it more easily affects men or more universally affects men.

Men are lonelier now. We are as a society lonelier than we have ever been. And men are the loneliest people within that society. That's what I've heard. And to a certain extent to understand, even in the last number of years, I've noticed as work dynamics have changed, like the influx of friends has become very different in our life

and in lives of people we know. You have to be much more intentional about making friends. You have to be so much more intentional. So in terms of advice, I'd say taking those intentional actions that puts you in front of people, you have a tip about just exposure, right? Like, yeah, not in these, but not in the mere exposure effect. Thank you. Where it's like the more you're exposed to somebody, the more they like you, the more you're,

whether you talk to them, anything. Which is, of course, why our work, our school, the pools of people that were shoved into those end up being in large part the people that we hold on to, right? Find those pools. That would be the advice, right? You want to take up a sport? Take up a sport. You're not athletic. Take up a sport at a level that you don't have to play too hard at. In fact, the people playing kickballer. I will not have you disparage the good name of kickball. No, no, yeah. A social sport. Definitely, yeah. Don't like go take up like single seat rowing like in the middle of the ocean by yourself. book club or a podcast club or a ping pong club. There's so many ways to be social, a walking club.

Those are springing up around cities, which I think is so cool. But there's ways you can sit. There's ways you can move. There's so many ways to put yourself in a recurring way in front of other people. So maybe if we're talking about supporting your partner and doing that, is that suggesting the avenues instead of just saying, wow, I wish you had a more. robust community. Yeah. The communication I think is so important here. The best way to do it in my honest opinion is to have it as a bigger conversation. So instead of saying, well, maybe you should join that football team, right? Say, hey, I'm thinking a lot these days about making sure we have people in our life that are supportive of us. Bring it back to literally what we're talking about right now at that high level. Have that conversation with the partner. Oh, I listen to a

really good podcast where they, you know. Listen together. You can skip to the whole first part. No. But right there. Listen the whole thing together. Yeah, exactly. Listen the whole thing together.

And say, hey, what are your thoughts on this? Right. And then it's never nagging. It's not saying I think this is how you should live your life. This is something I'm thinking about. And I think we should discuss this. And because people, everybody can still benefit from it. You can ask a question, how do you think I could do this?

Better, right? Flip it around. Because then that way your partner is thinking about it for you and you're getting the benefit and it's all going to work out for you. I love that. Okay, number four for me. If your relationship is boring, you need to do more interesting things. Okay. I came up with this tip because I get so many messages from people who are like, I am not having fun with my partner anymore. And I say, okay, what are you doing with your partner? And they say, we talk about chores a lot. And then we eat dinner while we watch TV. And I get it.

Both of these things are very necessary parts of our adult lives. We have to live our lives and deal with all of the minutia that comes with that. And then at the end of a long day, we want to relax, we want to rest, we want to eat a yummy meal with our partner while we watch one of our favorite shows. But if you don't have interesting inputs, you cannot have interesting outputs. The reason that we love our partners is because they are our favorite people to be around, to talk to. But you can't come up with conversation in a vacuum, which is why we often default to like,

well, how was your day? And how are the kids? And did you eat something good for lunch? And the conversations begin to feel really stayed and boring because we're not giving our relationship the new outputs that it needs and that it deserves. These are the people we love the most in the world. So let's feed it, the kindling to create that spark, to create that fire that's going to be the relationship that we fell in love with in the first place. So interesting inputs don't have to be crazy. We do an articles club every week. So every Wednesday night for dinner instead of watching in front of the

TV, which I want to say, we still do a lot. Like, we eat dinner in front of the TV. We've been watching suits. It's great. It feels like a simpler, happier time. Yeah, it's like a real nostalgia lane. Like, wow, these are the same problems. Of that time. But we still do that. But on Wednesday night, we each read

an article separately, and then we come to dinner together and we'll tell the other person what we read, what we learned, and anything interesting that we would like to discuss us from that article. That article is an interesting input that we have both committed to to make more interesting outputs, which is the conversation that we get to have over dinner together. I have a listener who wrote into me and she said that she goes for podcast walks with her partner. And so they both put on headphones and they listen to a podcast together on the walk and then

they discuss the podcast at the end of the walk. So again, interesting input, new podcasts. They're listening together is going to spark new conversations with. one of their favorite people, if not their favorite person in the world, to talk about these things with. Interesting inputs lead to interesting outputs. If your relationship feels boring, fear not. It is not because your relationship is boring. It's because you need to give your relationship fodder to make it interesting. That's great. Wow. I think a really interesting thing about that is that in some ways, like for a lot of new relationships, all that stuff that people end up finding boring, that's the good stuff. that's the new stuff.

Like, you haven't been in a relationship for six months, longer, however long, getting somebody in your space or being in their space, sitting down at having a meal together, like, cuddling up and like watching a movie or a TV show, whatever show you're watching, like suits. That is so special. And we put it up on a pedestal for that reason. And I think that's one of the ways it gets you. It ends up being this really. Not in a negative way, but just, yeah, just like circumstantially. Yeah, it creeps in. And then people like, oh, but I loved this thing.

I loved this thing we did. And obviously, like, we still love it. Yeah. Right. But if you don't add the new stuff and you're not diversifying, then this thing that's so lovable ends up being potentially like a little bit more toxic. It's so true that at the beginning of a relationship, everything is an interesting input. Right.

everything feels like an interesting output. But as the interesting inputs become more normal, just more routine in your lives, then you need to find new interesting inputs. I think that's a good point. And you don't even do them all the time. You can still have the comfort stuff. Oh, absolutely. I like the podcast one.

I feel like we can take an eight-hour drive and take it to our podcast and not get through the podcast. Pause, pause and talk. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. Anyway, assume best intentions. Can you give us a brief?

Yeah. assuming the best intentions of your partner. This one is especially for fight avoidance and for like negativity avoidance. I mean, it's certainly so easy to not assume the best intentions in anyone. And with your partner, I think it's one of those things where we really need to sit down and internalize that, hey, this person means well, especially if you know for certain they mean well and you're not in like a toxic relationship where they clearly don't. And that's a whole other thing. I don't want to disparage that because you can't. If you're in a healthy relationship.

If you're in a healthy relationship and you can say to yourself, I know my partner means well, then make that assumption when reacting to something that maybe could be interpreted as not meaning well. It's so easy. I think Bray Brown has this really good example of what that kind of reactionary thought can be like. It doesn't necessarily have to apply to your partner or anything else. But it's like, let's say I have a glass of smoothie. You made me a glass of smoothie. It's great. And I slip and I drop it on the ground.

I'm immediately like, oh, whose fault was that? because it can't be mine. There's no way I just drop glasses of perfectly good smoothie on the ground. And your brain can go to be like, oh, the smoothie's too heavy. The glass was slippery. There was light in my eyes. I don't know. The floor was slippery.

The floor, whatever. Insert your excuses here. But they are excuses. And I think putting it into the context of, certainly this isn't my partner's fault is the way to go. The number one rule of habits is to make the things that you want easier and the things that you don't want harder. yet so many of us want to eat healthier, but so few of us actually take the steps to make eating healthier easier. That's where Marley Spoon comes in. What I love about this company and what's different than all of the other companies out there that are doing stuff in the same arena, is that you can customize your choices based on the effort that you want to put in.

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My intent wasn't to make you drop your smoothie. And I think that recognizing that your partner can be at fault without their intention being to hurt you can give you a lot of empathy and compassion in the way that you approach your partner. Yeah. This example is better if this glass was slippery or there was something technically wrong with your otherwise perfect smoothies. Oh, yeah. These little hamhawks. Yeah. For sure. Giving your partner the benefit of the doubt, best of tensions, however you want to do it. Just. It makes things easier for you and it makes things easier for your partner. There's almost no downside to it except for the sting of emotion. The sting of emotion for yourself. of pride for yourself. Well, when it makes communication so much easier too, because it doesn't muddy the waters with a different conversation, you know, than what you're really trying to say. In this example, you try to say, I feel like a dumb, dumb for dropping the smoothie. But there's a lot of things that are much more nuanced that really can't stand having muddy waters like that. Okay. Number five for me is if you can afford it, outsource your problem spots in the relationship. So we talked about how I'm perhaps not the cleanest person in the world. We have spent money on having a cleaning person come since far before we could probably afford to do so. Yeah, I think like we'd be tight on rent, but still getting somebody coming, like somebody wants a month.

And that's because that was something that we spent a lot of time arguing about. And I think identifying the areas that you argue a lot about and saying, is there some way that I could reallocate my budget to make this perpetual fight into. something that's less evident in our relationship can be really helpful. Especially, I love couples therapy. We've done couples therapy. We talked about in this episode that we've done couples therapy. But all of the talking about something in the world can sometimes be less effective than simply figuring out a real concrete solution to a problem. Because some things are just problems, right? Like somethings are not your problems. They're problems. Yes. That example, you know, like, be it not having enough time for food and doing meal prep, being super

nervous about your finances, so getting an accountant or a financial planner into your life? Like if we are always arguing about money, could we bring in a professional to give us a budget that we could stick to? Yes, it's a bigger payment at front, but how many fights will that save us down the road? I know so many people who have fiscal problems like debt, you get these imbalance situations and relationships, and it's like, the problem is the problem. It isn't you guys. It's just a problem. And having somebody who can help you work through that. That's the solution.

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And now we don't really fight about money because we're just like, we're following the plan. As long as we're following the plan, we're good to go. Is it plan on track? No. Oh, got to get that on track. And then if the plan's on track, cool. Yeah, figure it out. Yeah.

I love that example. So my next one is plan together. And plan together is pretty straightforward. And it kind of ties into like the financial planning and all that kind of stuff. But it is the idea that it is really easy, especially as your relationship goes on for people to change and for their desires to change. And for them to not realize they want one. thing versus another thing. And maybe you thought your partner wanted kids and they didn't want kids. Maybe you really wanted to live in a specific house or you always assumed you'd

move back to be somewhere near your family, like across the country or anything else like that. Like there are expectations people have and when they are not spoken, we ran into real problems. So it is planned together, but more even than that, it's communicate your desires. you can plan together. Yes, I'm just going to jump right in. My last tip is communication is like the crux of all relationship, success and woes, right? It's all about explicit, overt communication with your partner and getting to a place that you can communicate safely and communicate with trust and communicate with love and like safe space communication. But to roll back to the plan together, yeah, it's getting your partner to know what you want in life and

knowing what they want in life and actually trying to get there. We're actually just listening to the Trevor Noah podcast on the way over here, and he was talking about a 40th birthday episode because he's turned 40-ish, probably recently sometime in February. Happy birthday, Trevor. And one of his friends said, you start steering for your 40th birthday. She thinks it like 37. And maybe any time you're steering towards the future.

And if you're not steering towards the future, if you're not getting ahead of whatever you want your future reality to be with somebody and making sure that you both know what that map looks like and where you're going. And if you're getting close, you're in trouble. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. I see this so often with friends who want to get married at a certain time, want to have kids at a certain time, and they don't communicate that with their partners. And then they're like, why hasn't he proposed?

Why has any proposed? They're getting increasingly resentful. They're hating their partner. They're hating themselves. And they haven't actually communicated that they want to be engaged at a certain point. And remember, that partner might be working under other shoulds, other societal expectations, other things. And they're just on different courses, not bad courses. Just uncommunicated different courses.

And so that's just so you know, I'm out of tips. My last tip is the communication. Plan together, communicate all the time about everything. Clearly and with trust. Yeah. Do you have any hot communication tips for us? Sexy communication tips? No, just like a quick and dirty, what's one Zach tip for excellent communication?

Do the meta communication. Say, hey, Liz, I know we've been together for 15 or 16 years, who's counting. Moving forward, I really want our relationship to be a relationship where communication is like a core value. Want to feel. And I do feel right now, and I don't want to not feel in the future. Like, I can't come to you if I say something that is important to me or if I identify something that looks like it's important to you and hash into that and make sure that we're going where we want to go because you're the person that I want to go everywhere with. I feel like

we're in like a nautical boat analogy though. We're watching the sunset. We're going on the same course. It's nice. Good trade wins. No, I think it's one of the biggest under-discussed benefits of couples therapy even is that once you have the communication in couples therapy, you can say forever more, oh, well, we talked about this in couples therapy, you know, you can call each other out a little bit more on reacting in ways that you sort of agreed previously not to react. And you're basically saying to do that with communication. We have a first conversation about prioritizing communication. And then if we feel like we're not in the future, we can roll back and be like, well, we talked about wanting to prioritize communication. I like that. Okay, I have two and I'm going

to do them quickly. Number six, four play all day. So this is the idea that. This is the idea that that if you are not touching all day, if you are not being intimate all day, and then you try to go from zero to 60 in the bedroom, it's not going to feel natural. It's not going to feel normal and it's not going to feel good. It's going to be really, really hard to get to a place where you're feeling sexy and flirty and touch you with your partner if you've been not acting in that way all day long. So I'm a huge fan of kissing in the morning, of gently touching each other over breakfast or cuddling up while you're watching TV or giving their butt a little squeeze while they're cooking.

You are into that. You have a nice butt. All of these little things, they build up and they add to this idea that you are sexual partners in addition to routine partners and systems partners and CEOs and all these other things, like you said, that we're expected to be to each other. You're not home. Co-worker partners.

Co-working buddies. Yeah, your sexual partners, your life partners. And I think building that intimacy into all of the moments of your life will lead to better moments when you're actually trying to be deeply intimate. Yeah, I think that is in contrast to maybe a more typically male kind of reaction of like, oh, hey, I'm good to go now. Let's get into this. That's a myth. I know that there's the difference between people who need somebody else to initiate or they may be more reactive in their pleasure. Right.

But I also think there's almost like a myth where men should just be able to turn it on whenever and they're always horny and they're always good to go. And I think that's detrimental to men. I think everybody wants to feel close and intimate to their partner. And that closeness and that intimacy should not just happen during times where you're having sexual pleasure. When I think that's the point, right, is it's the building is also joy. It's also closeness. It's also intimacy. You're doing something else because the whole thing isn't to just, you know, like. Yeah, it's going to make the sex better, but it's going to make every moment other than the sex better, too. Okay. And then my last one is, and I've said this before, and I say it in my book, but it is so, so important. It's one of the biggest things that you've taught me in our relationship, which is that relationship bonds heal relationship wounds. And I was not a person who was raised with very many examples of what a great relationship looked like. both of my parents are divorced several times over. I didn't have a lot of models for what a

healthy relationship was. And I grew up being unsure if I was even capable of being in a healthy relationship myself. And I thought that I had to do all of the work on my own to get to a place where I deserved that healthy, happy relationship. What I have learned from my relationship with you is that because so many of those wounds happened in relationships, it is not cheating to heal those wounds with a strong relationship, with a secure attachment, with a partner who loves me unconditionally. That is actually part of the process. It is not cheating the process.

And I love thinking about things this way because it means that no matter what your childhood looked like, no matter what your relationship hits. history looks like, you can have a healthy, happy, beautiful, fulfilling relationship. I love that so much. It's touching to me in all sorts of ways, both as a general message and for us and specifically for you, because I know that that has been a piece of your personal healing journey. And I would just say, I love it for a lot of reasons, but I think one of the reason I love it is that it gets rid of the concept of damage, of being damaged as a state, right, that one can undamage. And I think that being able to say, hey, I am somebody who is looking

for healing in my relationship. I think that's something that so many people are so happy and willing to bring, and it gives everybody this opportunity in this perspective of being like, I'm not too damaged for a relationship. I'm not damaged in a way that makes me unlovable or anything else like that. I am somebody who deserves love and with love can only grow and improve. I love that. Well, I love you too. I have really appreciated you being that person and so many people for me, honestly, over the years.

We've gotten the opportunity to be so many people for each other to grow and evolve and change together. And it's really been an honor and a privilege over these last 15 to 16. Yours. An honor and a privilege. Do you want a 60 second hug? Sure. All right. Okay.

Love you. Okay, so 15 years, 16 years. Who's counting? I hope that you love this episode. And I would love to hear which tip resonated with you the most. So please share it on Instagram and tag me. I'm at Liz Moody. I would also love to know what lessons you've learned in your own relationship.

And if there's anything in here that you think would be helpful to anyone you know what in your life, please send them a link. Sharing these podcasts is the best way to support the show. It's how we can get all of these incredible guests for you, how we can produce these episodes, and it is so, so appreciated. If someone shared a link with you and you are new to the podcast, welcome. I am so glad that you're here. Make sure that you were following the podcast on whatever platform you like to listen on. All you have to do is go to the main podcast page. That's the one that lists all of the Liz Moody podcast episodes, and you'll see the word follow under the logo on Spotify.

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And you do not want to miss out because we have some very, very exciting ones coming up, some of my favorite episodes that I have ever recorded, if I'm being honest, including an episode diving into whether popular wellness trends are actually grounded in science. and another one all about the secrets of the world's most successful people. Okay, I love you and I will see you next Wednesday for the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast. I'm genuinely confused how Masterclass gets literally the absolute top people in every single field to teach every single one of their classes. I use it when I want to learn things directly like the cooking class from Thomas Keller has all of the wisdom that you would normally have to go to culinary school for. But also, I'm being honest, this is like a use case I don't hear.

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