The Liz Moody Podcast - 9 Proven Tips to Finding the One from Top Love Scientist (+ How To Navigate Modern Dating & Relationships)

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

In today’s episode, I’m joined by the brilliant Logan Ury—behavioral scientist, dating coach, and author of How to Not Die Alone. We dive deep into the messy and sometimes painfully confusing world of modern dating. From the myths that keep us single to the science-backed truths about real lasting connection, Logan shares tons of actionable advice. We chat about how vulnerability and timing play crucial roles in finding a great match, why dating apps feel so overwhelming, what people think they want versus what actually leads to a long-term partnership, her “Three Dating Tendencies” framework, and how to stop self-sabotaging when it comes to finding your forever person. Whether you’re single and swiping, newly partnered, or just relationship-curious, this conversation is packed with insights that will totally reframe how you approach dating, relationships, and yourself. We will also be discussing the romantic comedy movie that just came out: The Materialist. If you don’t want to hear spoilers about the movie’s ending, stop listening when Liz gives a heads-up—around 44:40 on Spotify video or after the second ad break on Apple audio—and come back after you’ve seen it to hear Liz's and Logan’s different hot takes! In this episode, we get into: How to date like a scientist Finding your true deal-breakers Emotional intelligence & dating Money & dating Predictors of long-term success The stress test Physical expectations & dating If love is enough Modern masculinity & modern femininity Relation shopping vs. relation shipping Hot takes on the materialist movie For more from Logan Ury, find her on Instagram @loganury or online at www.loganury.com to check out her newsletter and matchmaking services. Read her book, How To Not Die Alone. Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order Liz’s book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  Connect with Liz on Instagram @lizmoody or online at www.lizmoody.com. Subscribe to the substack by visiting https://lizmoody.substack.com/welcome. To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. This episode is brought to you completely free thanks to the following podcast sponsors: Shopify: Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/lizm.  Maui Nui: Head to mauinuivenison.com/LIZ to secure your access to a limited collection of Liz’s favorite nutrient-dense wildly delicious meat cuts and products.  LMNT: Go to DrinkLMNT.com/LizMoody to get a free LMNT sample pack with any order. Evlo: Head to EvloFitness.com and use code LIZMOODY to get 6 full weeks completely FREE. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast.  This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. The Liz Moody Podcast Episode 343. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're in this really difficult moment where expectations of men are changing, expectations of women are changing, and the dating hasn't caught up with the data. So do you think that the apps have created the problems of modern dating, or do you think there's other things at play? Why do women get the ick when men are vulnerable? It definitely is, and it's something that I see a lot, and I feel like it's one of the points that frustrates me about modern dating. What do you think about this? I touched on this with the polarity thing a little bit, but a lot of women I've talked to feel like height and being big is one of the last few masculine things left. So we know that in the United States, only 14% of men are six feet or taller. You basically have a club that's not letting in 86% of the people who want to enter. What I see happening in a lot of my friends is that women are just taking on everything.

The Lost Boys report that came out in the UK in March, it said that one in seven young men, in the UK, so ages 16 to 24 is need. And that stands for not in education, employment, or training. Do you think there's anything wrong with marrying somebody for money? How much do you think we should be considering these practical factors when we're deciding to build a life with somebody versus these are the feelings that I have around you? Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Liz Moody podcast. Today we're going to talk about what is going on in the modern dating and relationship world because it is messy and it is complicated and it definitely has some very unique

and particular challenges. I was inspired to have this conversation when I saw the new movie, The Materialist with Dakota Johnson and Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal. It talks about how the point of marriage has changed over the years and these taboo dating things,

like how important money and height are. And I was watching the movie and I just was like, took my notes out and I was like, I got to take notes on this. Like this is going to be a really interesting podcast episode. And we do use the movie as a jumping off point, but we reserve any spoilers till the end. And the movie is really just inspiration to talk about these taboo topics that are hugely impacting our love lives. So if you have not seen the materialists, no worries, you really do not need to see it to appreciate this conversation.

And if you have seen it and you want our specific takes on it, that will be at the end of the episode. and it will be very clearly proceeded with a spoiler warning. We are going to get into the impact of dating apps on dating and relationships, what we should settle or compromise on, why so many women say that they want an emotionally vulnerable man, but they get the ick the second that he opens up, the changing definitions of masculinity and why men are struggling so much these days, which obviously impacts women who are trying to date men,

whether you can build a life on love alone without practicalities like money and the other constraints that we need to get by in this world and so much more. And because this is the Liz Moody podcast, we're not just going to like identify the problems and leave you hanging. We are going to give you action tips for what to do given all of these very unique challenges in modern dating and in modern love. My guest today is Logan Yuri. She is a dear friend of mine. and she is a Harvard-trained behavioral scientist. She's the author of the bestselling book, How to Not Die Alone,

The Surprising Science that Will Help You Find Love. She's also the dating coach on the Netflix series, The Later Dater. She works as Hinges, Director of Relationship Science, conducting research on modern dating. And she also writes the Logan's Letter newsletter to over 90,000 weekly subscribers. She is a very impressive woman,

and I'm very honored to be her friend. She also just started working in the matchmaking space. So if you're interested in hearing more on that, which the materialist is very much about matchmaking, so if your interest is piqued about matchmaking, stay tuned until the end of the episode to hear more about that. Let's start off with like, what did you think of the movie generally? I really liked it. First of all, maybe it was just because I'm a new mom and I saw it at 12 p.m. on a Monday.

And I was like, this feels like so luxurious and fun. But I liked it. I felt like it hit on a lot of stuff. about modern dating that I haven't heard discussed before. And I was just a fan. What about you? So I loved the hit on step with modern dating and modern love, modern romance that I haven't seen anywhere else. That's why I decided to do the episode. We were five minutes into the movie and I had my phone out and I was like taking notes. I was like, this has to be an episode of the podcast. I found the ending very frustrating, which we won't get into until the end. And I'll do a

spoiler alert so that nobody feels like they every, I want everybody to be able to listen to this episode and still go see the movie. But I, the end. The end. ending really bothered me to the point where I'd knock it down from like a nine to a six. Yeah, I think they're seeing the movie as a social commentary and I think it was quite strong and really provocative. And then they're seeing the movie as a rom-com and I feel like it left a lot of people disappointed. See, I feel like it was the opposite. I feel like it hit rom-com for me and the social commentary notes win away by the end with the end choices, which we'll get into again in the spoiler alerts. Oh, that's so interesting. I thought it was like you were let down by the romantic part

of it. We'll get into that in the end. But let's start off with there's a lot of social commentary in this. I want to get into the theme of height because that was a really, really big theme in this movie. And people talk about height on the internet all of the time. I have very strong feelings on height. I read an article last week that said that women who date men based on height deserve to be single. What is your take on how much height factors into a healthy, happy relationship? There's a concept called relationshiping or relation shopping. Relationship shipping is the act of entering into a relationship, for example, with dating. Relations shopping is when you shop for a partner the way you would shop for a house or a car or a new

pair of headphones. And so you really break someone down into their parts the way that you would if you were looking at a new camera. So for a new camera, you might say, how heavy it is, what's the zoom, how many megapixels are the pictures that it takes? And then you think that you can date like that. And so you start to look at somebody based on their parts. And you start to say, how tall are they? What's their BMI? How much money do they make? And I feel like the movie really nailed the concept of relation shopping. And one of my favorite parts of the movie were all the scenes where it's straight to camera because you're imagining that these are the clients talking to Lucy the matchmaker. And they just go really quickly through them. And the guy says, a BMI must be under 20 for the woman that I

want to date. Or a guy in his late 40s says, well, I'm really only willing to date up to 27. And, you know, I prefer 24. And women who say, you know, I've waited long enough, like, here's my list and I deserve all of it because I'm a catch. So I feel like it really, really nailed this aspect of modern dating, which is that so many people are relationshiping and breaking people down into their parts. And so, yes, I do think that people are super focused on height. You'll hear it all the time, I feel like I've heard many of the things that people asked for in the movie. People have said that to me. So, for example, the guy who said, I know exactly what I want.

I want the looks of this person, the body of this person, the ambition of this person, and the family of this person. And she's like, yeah, I could do that if I was Frankenstining somebody. And so I feel like one of the biggest problems in modern dating is relationship. shopping. And it is true that people are quite superficial around height, but I also want to say that there's the other gendered piece of it, which is that heterosexual men are quite superficial around BMI and age. Do you find that one gender tends to be more superficial than the other, or is it just about different things? I think it depends. And I also think it depends on what people

think their options are. And so something that you sort of see trending, like even in college, let's say freshman girls feel like they have access to all the older guys above them. But by the time they're seniors, they feel like they have a smaller pool to choose from because a lot of the older guys want to date younger girls. And so, you know, reinforcing some of the ideas from the movie, a lot of this is about market and what is the market for dating and, you know, how much do you have to offer? And it feels really cynical saying that, but I think it's true. And one thing you see in the movie is one of the main clients that they track is the same. woman Sophie. And Sophie's in her late 30s. And when Lucy the matchmaker is describing her, she says,

okay looks, okay income. And it's just like, where does Lucy fall in the market and how desirable is she? Sophie. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Where does Sophie fall in the market and how desirable is she? And so one of the things that Lucy is trying to do is to convince Sophie to sort of settle a little bit more. And so there's this scene where Lucy is presenting someone to her and she says he's 5-11. And she says, is he really? 5-11 or is he lying? Is he really 5-9? And then Lucy says, what's the different of a few inches? But that's actually such a big theme of the movie is like, what is the difference of a few inches? I think what we do see in modern dating is that it matters a lot, unfortunately. It matters a lot. And people are like, I can't find my person. They're like, I can't find my,

I feel like this is what Sophie was manifesting the movie is I can't find my person and I'm not willing to compromise those few inches. So that feels like a paradox to me. It definitely is, and it's something that I see a lot, and I feel like it's one of the points that frustrates me about modern dating. So we know that in the United States, only 14% of men are six feet or taller. Yet many women, when they're setting up their apps and they often do it quickly, set six feet as the minimum. So then I meet girls at parties or they DM me and they say, I'm on hinge, where's my husband? And I'm like, well, you basically have a club that's not letting in 86% of the people who want to enter. So maybe that's where your husband is. And I am married to someone

who is not over six feet. I'm super happy. I feel like I made a great decision. And I think he is somebody who would have been passed over on the apps because of height. And I think that people are just missing out on great potential partners because of height. So how do we stop relationshiping and start relationship in? I mean, this is one of the things about the movie that's so interesting. And I think one of the big themes. So if I were to explain to somebody what the movie was about, I would say, there's a cynical matchmaker who's been in the business for a while, and she's really good at seeing how attractive is this person, how desirable are they? So, for example, she'll think about herself and say, well, why would you date me? Why wouldn't you date a 25-year-olds who will look

like me in 10 years? My looks are going to fade faster. Or she'll say to somebody, you're a unicorn, you're a perfect 10 because of height looks income. And so she's already relationship shopping because that's part of her job. Part of her job is to evaluate people, see how desirable they are, and then kind of make matches that make sense to her. But I think what's lost in that is the idea that a relationship isn't just about who you make sense with on paper and that when people date for a checklist or somebody's resume, then those are not sustainable relationships. And what really matters is what side of you the person brings out, who you are together, if your values align, if you have fun with them, if they make you laugh.

And so I feel like in Lucy's effort to be a great matchmaker, she's really started to see the world in what she calls math. The math makes sense or the math doesn't make sense, but she's missing this indescribable part of love. And I think that's what the movie's trying to tell us towards the end and we're not going to give away the end, is that there is something that can't be measured, there is something that you can't see just on paper. And it's that indescribable feeling of love that makes the whole thing so magical. Because if people were so simple and it was an algorithm, don't you feel like the dating apps would work even better and everyone would just be matched?

But clearly, when I put somebody in front of somebody else, maybe they trigger each other's insecurities around intelligence or you remind me of my dad who I'm not in touch with, whatever it is. And so humans are so much more complicated than just their status. that's her bio data. And I think Lucy starts the movie thinking that she just knows where to place everyone based on those attributes. And I think by the end, she realizes that there's much more to relationships than that. How do we know, you know, if our values align or if we're going to have fun together, all these things when we're figuring out who we should go on a date with by

swiping through thousands of people? When I teach people in my dating class, I say there's a category of things that you can learn from a dating app profile and a category of things you can't. And instead of trying to figure out that second category through the profile, just get to the date faster. So for example, people will say, I just learned about attachment theory. How do I find a secure partner on the app? And I say, unless they say securely attached, which I don't even know if I would believe them, there's not a way to do that. That's something where they need to demonstrate that to you over time. So some of the things you can figure out from the app are height, looks. Maybe they share their hobbies.

Maybe you know where they live. Maybe you know what they do for a living. But many of the other things that matter for long-term relationships like loyalty, kindness, growth mindset, ability to make hard decisions together, what side of you they bring out. You will not know that until you actually spend time with the person. And so I would recommend in that case that, yes, you can message people and see if they have a sense of humor and get a little banter going. But actually getting to the date sooner is a much better way of seeing.

Do we have a great connection? I feel like the apps, because they can only show you things like height and a few photos and a few little taglines are the thing that has made us relationship. Like, I feel like that's a huge contributing factor to that. Yeah, I think the fact that you can filter on some of those things has made it feel more important than in the past. Well, and just it's like the only information we're getting. Like, you used to meet somebody in real life and get a vibe or your friend would recommend

somebody or something. And like the information we have to go on now is so shallow. and I fear it's making people shallow as a result. In the corporate world, there's this idea that what gets measured is what matters. So if you have a sales team and you say, I'm tracking your conversion rates, then they're really going to care about conversions. If you have a sales team and you say, I'm really going to track how many phone calls you make a day, then that's what's going to matter to them.

And so, yes, the apps are limited to the things that they can measure because, of course, there's not like a loyalty filter or something like that. And I think merely the fact that they are being measured makes them feel more important to people than they would otherwise. So if you were at a bar and you were sitting at the bar and you met a great guy and you had an incredible conversation and a really cute face and then he stood up and he was shorter than you expected, I think you would still give him your number because you'd had the experience of being with him in context and you felt attracted to him and you liked him.

I think if you saw that same guy on an app, you might either say no or you might not see him at all because he lacked the context of the in-person meeting. So do you think that the apps have created the problems of modern dating or do you think there's other things at play? It's really interesting because I see so many videos on TikTok that blame dating apps for a lot of the issues that go on. Then I want to say like watch sex in the city. That is pre-apps and Carrie has so many of the same problems.

Like she gets broken up with through the Post-it note and she can't decide between two people and I think she's quite superficial in many ways. And so I think that there are aspects of dating that are just hard. And I think there's aspects of modern dating that are harder. Some of them are the apps, but other things are things like in a global world where everyone's on social media, you're always comparing yourself to not just your friends and not just the people in your neighborhood, but people around the world. I think that makes every aspect of life feel more competitive. I think people care more about what somebody looks like when they're posting photos of them and they're doing their soft launch and their hard launch. I think a lot of modern courtship

happens over texting. And some people are just not great written communicators. And some people like being in the moment. And they don't like texting all the time. And so I think that technology now intermediates a lot of our romantic relationships. And that has some good things. like you have exposure to more people that you wouldn't have seen otherwise. And it's been great for daters over 50 and LGBTQ plus daters. But yes, I think in some ways technology has made us focus on the wrong things. I'm going to share some reasons that I have friends say to me when I say, you should date a shorter guy or you should open up the possibilities of dating a shorter guy.

One is that as women have made more money and women have just taken on a lot of rules that were only previously available to men, we're still looking for political. We're looking for things that we are not like each other in relationships. And having he's bigger, I'm littler, provides an element of that polarity. I would just say to that person, especially if they were single, what do you want long term? And I think that that person, based on my 10 years of experience with this, would say, I really want a partner who I love. I want to grow old with someone. I want to have a family with them.

I want to feel appreciated. I want to feel known. and there's all these deeper parts of partnership that I think are so meaningful to people. So then I might say, okay, so this height differential, which maybe makes you feel more petite, and that's how you want to feel. Like, I acknowledge that as something that you're looking for or maybe something that you've had in the past that you liked. But is that more important than meeting your person?

And I think going back to the movie The Materialist, that's a big part of what I saw, is that people came to her with these checklists and were basically like, find this person for me. And the reason why I reject that premise and why I don't work with people in that capacity is that I think that we think we know what we want, but we're often wrong. When people say that polarity thing to you, they might think, well, if I was choosing from a menu, I would check off really tall, really big, makes me feel petite. But you're not choosing from a menu. You're meeting a limited number of people and you're seeing who you are around them and what you can build together. And so I would have that person move it from a deal breaker must have to a preference and a nice to have.

What if somebody says, I've met hundreds and thousands of men. I've never been attracted to a shorter man in my life. Like, this is just not something I'm physically attracted to and I need physical attraction in my relationship. For someone like that who's telling me they have tons of data and evidence, I might say, okay, so it sounds like this is really a deal breaker for you. and you can't have someone who's maybe the same height as you or shorter, but is there any wiggle room in there? And so it's not that I'm invalidating people's preferences. It's more that I'm helping them understand. There's a limited number of people, maybe in your area or who you have things in common with, whatever their criteria are. And how can we move things from the deal breaker to the pet peeve category? And so for that person, I would say, okay, I want to push you. What's the

shortest you think you can go. Oh, I can't go under 511. Okay. If you see someone who's 510, go on a date with them, see if you're attracted to them, see if you're actually more flexible than you think. But if that person told me kind of in your hypothetical, I've dated thousands of people and it hasn't worked out, I'd be like, wow, it sounds like you've been running a lot of experiments and you know what you want. So sounds like heights really important to you. I very rarely get genuinely excited about skincare, but this is one of the most innovative products that I have come across in years, and I'm so obsessed with it. I've been telling all of my friends to get it, so now I need to tell you guys. Here's some science first. Your skin isn't just

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Do you think that's true? Do you see an issue with daters you work with about feeling like they're taking on so many masculine roles that there's not room for that left in the person they're dating? Yeah, I think this is part of a bigger conversation around the definition of modern masculinity. And so I think that things really are changing. And so,

according to my research, many women want a guy who is more emotionally intelligent because they feel like, look, we're making the same amount or I actually make more. And I don't need a provider. But what I do want is somebody who's emotionally intelligent

can support me, can be there for me. I don't want this. this 1950s, leave it to Beaver Dad, who's the provider, but really is not going to engage with me on an emotional level. But then when I dig deeper into the research, you also find a lot of women who say, what I actually mean is I want him to be emotionally supportive of me, but I don't want him to be vulnerable. And there's this great quote from Brune Brown where she talks about the fact that women say that they want someone to be vulnerable and they beg men to open up, But the minute that they do, we can't stomach it.

And that's a message that a lot of men have shared with me too, that they feel like when they are vulnerable, they get rejected. And so I think there's what we think of as traditional masculinity. There's what we think of as toxic masculinity. And I think there's really a need now for a modern version of masculinity that isn't defined by things like height or weight or, you know, how big a guy is to make a woman feel feminine, but is really around things like courage and emotional intelligence and humor and being a great

role model for other people. And Scott Galloway talks a lot about all of this stuff. And I feel like he's really onto something because I think that when we think about masculinity in terms of men, big, women small, we're really letting everyone down. Why do women get the ick when men are vulnerable? Based on my research and based on the one-on-one conversations I've had with men and women about this topic, I've found that what women really want is a guy who will connect with them, who will ask them how their day was, who will sit and talk to them about the drama with their

sister. But they also feel more comfortable and safer because the guy's really strong. And once they feel like there's cracks in that armor and that the guy actually has vulnerability and has some weaknesses and isn't as strong, then the woman feels less safe in the relationship. And so I think that this is such a hard paradox where men are asked to, be vulnerable, but what many women mean is be emotionally intelligent towards my issues, but don't open up about yours. So what do we do about that? I think that we really do need updated definitions of modern masculinity and modern femininity. In a few years, two out of three college grads will be women. And women are really into hypergamous mating. So hypergamous mating is

wanting to date someone who's the same or a higher socioeconomic level as you. But if you have two-thirds of women as college grads, then one half of those women will not find their hypergamous mate. Like that's just math. That's just the math. Yeah. And so we really have to think about what to do about it. So one thing is helping women understand that maybe they don't need someone who makes the same amount of money as them or is as educated as them. And what do they want instead? And so I'm not saying to lower their expectations. I'm saying update their expectations for a modern world. And I think for men to understand that women are asking more of them. So my friend David, when we were talking about this, he was saying, men have basically been taught their whole lives to be the provider. So imagine

learning your whole life to catch a tiger. And then one day, you're in your mid-20s or mid-30s, and someone says, no, it's actually about emotional intelligence. And he's like, that's now catching a lion, but we weren't taught how to do that. And so I feel like we're in this really difficult moment where expectations of men are changing, expectations of women are changing, and the dating hasn't caught up with the data. So is awareness the first step there? Like, hey, I want an emotionally vulnerable man. Oh, wait, but I'm getting sort of like gross out.

There's, I don't need him to keep me safe in this way. Maybe I look for other ways to keep me safe. Yeah. I think that there's women understanding that the fact that they make a lot of money is great and they should embrace that. And if they feel like, well, I make a lot and I want him to make. a lot so that we can have this certain lifestyle, that's a choice. But if you feel like you're not meeting men who make as much as you, would you be willing to date someone who doesn't, knowing

that you might bring to the table money and they might bring to the table other things? It's so frustrating, though, because we are not conditioned in that way. To your, to date this point, men are not conditioned their whole lives to be like excited about being the stay at home parent. Women are not conditioned their whole lives to be excited about seeding that position and being the wage earner and all these things. Like we're conditioned to want certain things, but then reality doesn't match those things and we're expected to just deal with it. I think that's one of the reasons why dating does feel so hard right now is that what we were raised on and our expectations do not meet the reality of the moment. And I think this is going to be projected even

more into the future because the way things are going, more women are achieving college educations. In certain cities, women are making more on average than men. And so I think if you were conditioned your whole life to think, well, my role as the woman is to eventually have kids and maybe take some time off from work and my husband will be the provider. And then you end up with the guy who makes less than you. You might feel like, no, this isn't what I wanted. I wanted flexibility. And you also hear from men where they say, oh, I would date someone who makes more than me. But then in reality, you know, with anecdotal data, they often don't like those situations and they don't feel strong in those situations. So I think a lot of what people complain about in modern

dating does have to do with the fact that we have to adjust our expectations to the reality of now. And what I see happening in a lot of my friends is that women are just taking on everything. So they're making more money, but because men haven't necessarily been socialized or conditioned to do a lot of the other mental load tasks, women are running their households too and they're doing all their social plans. And they are exhausted and burnt out as a result of that, leaving many of my friends to be like, should I even find a partner? Like, is a partner just a dead weight that I'm dragging along versus something that's adding and contributing to my life. Yeah, so this is something that I used to just feel like, oh, maybe this is just happening to me

and who I know where wherever I traveled, people would say, do you know any great single guys? Because I have a really great single girlfriend and I'd love to have you set her up with someone. But people were always telling me how great the women in their lives were. And no one was ever saying, I have this great single guy I want to tell you about. But now actually the data bears that out that it feels like in many ways in dating, men are falling behind. And that's especially true with younger generation. So this report, the lost boys report that came out in the UK in March, it said that one in seven young men in the UK, so ages 16 to 24, is need. And that stands for not in education, employment, or training. So these are people who are

literally just taking themselves out of really modern society. And they are not working towards education or employment. And so if you increasingly have men who are sort of saying, this is rigged against me and I'm not going to participate in society and then you have women that keep achieving, it's going to be hard to find all the matches that we want to find. What's the most pragmatic, actionable advice you would give a woman who's listening and who's like, yeah, dude, that's me. Like, should I just live with my best friend and raise kids together? First of all, I think there are a lot of options for people, but for someone who does want to find a romantic relationship, people are out there. I do not think that it's dire and people should give up. So the kind of things that I would

think about are getting super clear on what you want. And as we talked about earlier, moving things from the deal breaker category to the nice to have or to the pet peeve category. And another thing that I would say is date like a scientist. So maybe you think I have to have someone who's as educated as me. But maybe what you really mean is that you want someone who's intellectually curious. And maybe someone who isn't as educated as you are is intellectually curious. They just don't have the graduate degree that you have. And so what are ways that you can test what you think you have to have? Another thing I would say is take a look at your filters on the app. So can you expand your geographic radius? Can you expand your age radius? Can you expand your height filter, race, religion,

all of these different things. Because I feel like as people get older, they're tempted to say, I really know myself. I know exactly what I want. And they make their filter. and their mentality narrower and narrower. And instead, what they could say is, well, I've been looking for this thing for a while. It hasn't worked out. Why don't I actually have an open mind about who I might end up with?

There's this great scene in the materialists where there's a bride and she's crying in bed and she's like, I don't even know why I'm getting married. It's not so that I can have my dad give his family cows. It's not to match our kingdoms together. I think increasingly people are wondering what is the point of marriage in today's world? It's not been a love match historically. What do you think is the point of marriage in today's world? First of all, the people that I work with in a coaching

capacity are helping them find a great matchmaker. Sometimes they say marriage. Sometimes they say a long-term partner or a long-term relationship. So for me, I don't feel like it always has to be marriage. I'm married. I really like it. I do feel like there's something fun about saying husband and wife and just declaring to the world that, you know, you made it legal. But for many, people, especially in Europe, I just don't think that that matters as much. I did think that that scene was a little heavy-handed and just trying to like shove some- Just like how specifically she was like. It's just like I don't feel like that character the way they portrayed her would really be thinking about that in the moment. But that's okay. In the past, marriage was really not about love. It was about convenience or economics.

So maybe my parcel of land was next to your parcel of land. So our fathers decided that we should get married so that they could join them. or, as they say in the movie, you know, trading someone for cows or for sheep or camels, all of these different things. And it really wasn't until the last few hundred years that love entered the equation. And in fact, I've been learning more about this about how for many people, the closest relationships they had in their lives were friendships and people in their village and people that they lived with. And they didn't expect to get that from their partner. So Eli Finkel, who's an incredible professor in relationship science, and he's at North Western University. He has this book called the All or Nothing marriage. And he talks about marriage

and applies it to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So in the beginning, people look to marriage for things like safety. And then over time, things moved up on the pyramid to love and then to belonging. And now people expect self-actualization from their marriages. And so even you'll see this in the plot in movies where, you know, a man will be leaving and saying, you knew I wanted to play the guitar and then I wanted to be in a band and you didn't support me. And it's like, in what world would you leave a marriage because the person didn't support you in playing the guitar, you know, your hobby and self-actualizing? And so the best marriages of today are better than the best marriages of the past, but people leave marriages for different reasons than they would in

the past. So overall, what we expect for marriage has really changed. I feel like that scene in the movie was interesting because you see Lucy coaching this woman and she's so present with her. She's a really great coach and she just gets in there and she is basically trying to find a thread that she can pull on to basically convince the person to walk down the aisle. And you can tell she's done this before because she said to the bridesmaids, give me five minutes with her. And so what she lands on is this idea that her husband, the guy she's going to marry her fiance, makes her feel valuable. And that is a theme that we see throughout the movie is all of this language around economic terms. So you make me feel valuable. The math makes sense. This is a great investment.

And there's this professor named Eva Illuz who talks about this and she calls it emotional capitalism. And it's how the language of relationships has entered the workplace. But similarly, the language of the workplace has entered relationships. And so people are much more likely to talk about value and investment and intangibles and is this a good long-term bet. And there's just so much language in the movie that reflects that. I thought that was one of the sharpest pieces of the movie is that they really are speaking to the relationship shopping and people being divided into parts and then trying to shop for them and this idea of thinking about relationships in these very economic terms. So even though that's always been part of marriage, I think in

particular, this language of the economy has really entered emotional relationships. Okay, quickly, how has relationship language entered the workplace? Oh, think about it. You say, I really want to support you. You say, do you have psychological safety? Bring your whole self to work. Be authentic. I mean, I worked at Google for many years. Like, you hear about this stuff all the time. I literally taught a class of Google about emotional intelligence. You have the workplace that's becoming more sensitive to human dynamics, and then you also have this capitalist language that's entering emotional relationships. So do you think that's a bad reason to get married? Is it bad to get married because it makes you feel valued? I feel like

that scene was really interesting because on one level I was evaluating her as a coach, and I felt like she was really good and she said the right thing and she kind of, you know, got the girl up and ready to get married. But on the other hand, that's just so far from why I think people should get married. I think people should get married because they love the person. They want to build a life with them. They feel like this person makes them feel great and they want to spend more time with them. They believe in them. Like, there's just so many things. And in that scene, I think, in a heavy-handed way, they basically emphasize that, well, she makes my sister jealous because he's taller and makes more money than her husband. And so I think the idea that you should marry someone

because they make you feel valued, I think that could be one small part of it, but it feels like it's missing the love piece. But don't you think the love piece is part of what zooms it to the top of the Maslow's pyramid, which makes it so hard to sustain these long-term relationships, like wanting the love piece and the self-actualization and to have all these similar hobbies? And like, where are we expecting too much of our marriages? Yeah. So first of all, the top of Masel's hierarchy of needs isn't love. So it's sort of like in the middle. So I think the fact that people marry for love is a great thing. I think when they start to expect that by being in this relationship, I will achieve all of my career goals and hobby ambitions. And if not, it's your fault. I think that's where we get a little

unrealistic. But I think what that scene really meant to me is that this person didn't necessarily feel like they loved this person and that they wanted to build a life with them. They were really playing the comparison game and saying, well, in comparison to my sister, whose approval I want and who I want to feel better than my husband is a catch. And I think it was missing the point that I don't think that's a good reason to get married. There's this really interesting moment in the movie where a character says, like, we love each other, but we are broke and you can't build a life on love without these practical elements. How much do you think we should be considering these practical factors when we're deciding to build a life with somebody versus these are the feelings that I have

around you. So there's many people that we can have a love story with. This is something that Esther Perrell talks about all the time. And there's a smaller amount of people that you can have a life story with. And so I think a lot of people find love and then they say, is there enough there? And for me, I think about the idea of a life partner versus a prom date. So a prom date is someone who looks good in pictures. You'd want to dance the night away with them. You have a crush on them. They're so fun and a lot of people grow up dating the prom date type person. And then at a certain point, I say them you have to switch towards the life partner. That's basically getting more practical. Are they going to pick up your kids from the dentist? If you had an aging parent, would you

trust them to make a hard decision with you? And are they reliable? And so people often have a hard time making this shift. But I do feel like it's important to find a life partner and not just a prom date if you're looking for this long-term sustainable love. You might think, well, isn't a prom date just a lot of love and lust, but maybe not the practical stuff. Do you think there's anything wrong with marrying somebody for money if one of your main goals is to be comfortable or even to have a really nice life? Like, if that is a top goal for you, is it wrong to marry somebody for their money?

People get married for a lot of different reasons. But what I would say from what I've seen is that what keeps people in a relationship is when they really invest in each other, when they enjoy spending time together, and when they stay friends. I feel like if you marry someone for money, but you don't have that foundation of friendship, then over time, you might drift apart and resentment might build. And I don't know what that relationship's going to look like long term. I'm genuinely confused how master class gets literally the absolute top people in every single field to teach every single one of their classes. I use it when I want to learn things directly, like the cooking class from Thomas Keller has all of the

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else. Okay, let's get into spoilers. So if you have not seen the movie and you don't want any spoilers, stop here and then come back and listen to this after you watch the movie. The ending of the movie. Drove me nuts. Yeah, why? Okay. So it drove me nuts because I felt like Chris Evans's character, the growth he was supposed to have shown is I'll pick up more shifts as a waiter and I'll take commercial parts as an actor.

And I'm like, she has clearly said she doesn't want her parents' relationship. Her parents didn't have money. They fought all the time. The biggest change you can make is that you could go get a different job and act as a hobby. Like this isn't, she is setting herself up to have the exact same life as her parents. And he hasn't grown at all to me. And she, like, I guess she's grown, but she's almost like grown back into what rom-coms have been telling women to want for centuries to me. I thought it was a progressive movie until the very end.

And then I thought she was making the exact choice that she clearly knew was going to make her unhappy. the long term. Yeah. So a lot of people on line are saying, oh, she should have wound up with neither of them. That's how I feel. People are saying, like, they don't ship Harry. They didn't have love. It wasn't that romantic. They didn't have chemistry. I also disagree that, but I also feel like Pedro Pescal would have chemistry, like a vacuum. So then they're saying like, oh, she's really regressing by going back to her toxic ex. I feel like what people are missing in that critique is all the moments in which she's emotionally vulnerable with John and not with Harry. So when...

John is Chris Evans? Yeah. Okay. So when she is dealing with the situation at work where the person is sexually assaulted and she's having a really hard time coming to terms with her job and what it means, he's the one who she calls. He's the one who she brings her problems to. And I feel like she's much more vulnerable with him.

And I feel like they have this deep friendship and trust. And I feel like with Harry, she's sort of auditioning for the role of wife to a rich man. And you never see her being emotionally vulnerable with him. And I feel like she and John did love each other. And what their conversations are like are, I know you and I still love you. And I think a big issue that the character Lucy is dealing with throughout the movie is that she actually has a lot of insecurity. She tries to tell Harry, I'm not good enough.

I'm not going to be pretty in a few years. I'm broken. I grew up poor. I was raised poor. Like she just has the story of why she's not valuable. And John is saying to her, I know. all those things about you and I still find you valuable and I still love you. So is Harry though.

Like at every moment that she says these things to Harry, he's like, that's cool. I love you anyway. That's not what I'm looking for. I actually love the scene at the restaurant where she's like, I'm not all these things. And he's like, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for somebody who sees the world differently, who can make me see the world differently, who basically is what she actually is and what she genuinely has to offer. And she's like, she puts him in a box.

And then to the point of what we talked about earlier in the episode, the first moment, he's like really vulnerable about his height surgery. She's like, it's not about this, but we should break up right now anyway. I don't think that the height surgery is why she broke up with him. The timing means that he will connect those forever. I know, but they did that on purpose and they have that good line where he's like, it's hard to, it's hard to not think it's about the leg. So if you watch the movie, she finds the ring in his bag.

And then they show her at night and she can't sleep because she's up feeling really upset. And so there's definitely something going on with her where she feels like this isn't right. And then I think the leg thing is something that she explores and she's thinking about and it's, you know, sort of part of her evolution of thinking about him. But I think what's going on for her is she's thinking, I know that love exists because I had love for John. And I know that it doesn't exist here. And when she says to Harry, I don't love you and you don't love me, he doesn't say, yes, I do love you. He says, I'm not capable of love. But she's never even tried with him.

That's my issue is she's always held back this closed part of herself because she hasn't let herself feel safe because she's put him in this very specific box. And then I feel like the height surgery actually provides this moment where the box could open because he's not just this unicorn perfect man. He's actually a real human with real vulnerabilities. And that's when she could have been a real human with real vulnerability. Because when he says I invested in myself and she says, I did you and she points to her nose and her boobs.

Yeah. I think she's saying like, this is a market and we're all trying to sell ourselves and I put money into myself, even though I make $80,000 a year to be more attractive. So I just don't agree with the take that because of the leg thing, she thinks he's not the unicorn I thought he was. I think in her world, she would actually be like, cool, he did something practical to make himself. No, I think that too. I think that that would have made her like him more. And if she had just taken one second to try to show her true self to him, they could have actually maybe fallen in love. And it was her preventing them from falling in love. I don't know that that's true. Because if you think about

the movie, why is Pedro Pascal's character single in his late 40s? Why has he never been married? I mean, I wonder this about Pedro Pascal in real life. I didn't know he was single. He's in his 50s and he seems so. But also then that begs the question. I did another podcast episode where it was like, why do we decide if people are single, there's something must be wrong with them. Okay. Yeah. I don't want to talk about him to the celebrity because I don't know anything about it. But I'll just talk about the character. So she basically says over and over, you're a unicorn, you're a perfect 10, there's nothing wrong with you. And I think she's missing a piece that I would certainly do in dating coaching, which is understand what's happened in his past relationships and what's going on.

And if she did that, she might have understood he has a hard time opening up or he's not emotionally vulnerable. There's something going on there. So I think she kind of just puts him on a pedestal and then knocks herself down. But I don't think she didn't try. I think on many levels, she would love to feel like it works. And at a certain point, she's like, the $12 million apartment, and I have keys to it, and we're going to Iceland. And she's like so excited about it. And I think in her version of love,

she would just find the richest guy possible, commit to him, and it would work out. And I think that when she's in the reality of getting what she thought she wanted, she finds that it's not enough. And I think that's what the movie is about, is that she thinks, like, I'll either die alone or marry a rich man.

And then when she has the opportunity to marry a rich man, she says this isn't true to myself and I know what it's like to be in love and this isn't it. But I think that's because of her. He had this beautiful moment of vulnerability forced because she basically like touched his scars but it was this beautiful moment of vulnerability

and I think that could have cracked open a door with them and I think, I mean, do you not think she is gonna go back to Chris Evans' shitty apartment and be like, this sucks. This is not what I want from my life. I think there's two separate things and the movie puts them so close together in the plot that it's hard to separate them.

So it's like, do I think she should have been with Pedro Pascal's character, Harry? Well, when somebody's saying, like, I've been dating this person for a while, I don't have the romantic feelings that I feel like I need, I trust that. I might push them a little bit more and say, have you tried? Have you opened up? Have you had them open up? And maybe we could have had that conversation. But I think at the end of the day, she didn't break up with him because of the legs.

I don't think she broke over. I thought the legs were an opportunity she missed. Yeah, but it's kind of like you're saying, if in that moment she had gone deeper with him, then maybe they would have stayed together and she shouldn't have broken up. I just feel like she never once. He kept saying, I want the real you. I want to get to know who you actually are as a person. Did he say that? When? At the dinner. He was, she was like, I'm not this, I'm not this. I'm not this. And he's like, I'm not looking for a checklist. I'm looking for a real person. I'm looking for a real person. I'm a real person because he knew about his leg surgery.

And she never once was a real person with him. So he was looking to fall in love with many of the attributes that she had. But when she said, I'm not good enough and I grew up poor, don't you think that was her kind of sharing something beyond the facade? Maybe. Like, it sounds like my interpretation of your interpretation is that you're just like, she could have made it work. Not could have made it work. I think she did not even give it a chance. Yeah. Because she was never vulnerable with him. And she just went back to what was familiar. So it was what was comfortable. And I don't think she's going to be happy with that choice in the long run. Not because you need to marry a rich man, but because it hadn't worked for her specific needs in the past and nothing had changed.

So why would it work for her specific needs in the future? Okay, so a few things. So first of all, what I was trying to say is I think the decision to be with Harry or not is one thing. And then decision to go to John or not is a separate thing. So for the first decision, I think this is someone who says, I got everything I ever thought I wanted and it felt empty. And this doesn't feel right. And I don't want to continue. I recognize that.

I think to your point, maybe she could have tried hard. to have a deeper connection. But I think she felt like for both of them, it was this business arrangement and it didn't feel authentic. Then there's decision to go back to the other guy. I think in general, I don't think people really do well when they go back to X's. There's a reason why they broke up with them in the first place. I think that she literally didn't have a place to stay that week because she had Airbnb at her apartment and she was moving out of her boyfriend's place and she was supposed to be in Iceland. So I think that she was desperate and I'm kind of like, if Lucy had been in therapy, maybe she could be in a better relationship.

And if Lucy had friends, then couldn't she have gone there instead of to this. Oh, yeah. Dude. And she has like the girlfriend at the matchmaking. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. But also with Sophie, when Sophie calls Lucy after the guy Mark is outside her house, it's like the only person that Sophie has to call is like her ex-masmaker is they need more friends.

Yeah. But another part of it is that I think the most generous interpretation of the ending of the movie is that she's an extremely practical person who has a story in her head that money is why her parents' relationship didn't work. If they'd had more money, it would have worked out. She just needs to find a rich guy and then she'll have her happiest dreams come true. And that when she actually had a person like that in front of her and it didn't work, she realized that she does need love. And that I think they use this expression in the movie, like, love needs to be on the table. And she's like, in my 35 years, the one person who I've really had this with is my ex.

And I left him because I thought that money was a deal breaker. And now I'm reevaluating that. The thing that was confusing was at the end of the movie, she gets offered this high-paying position as the head of the matchmaking agency. And she says, I was going to turn in my notice tomorrow. Everyone online seems to interpret that as she said no to the job. What I think is realistic in real life is that going back to our conversation about when women making more than men, she might take that job and be like, you know what, I'll be the provider in the relationship. I love that he's an artist. I think he's a really good actor. He can make more

money than he's making now, but I actually am super talented in the business world and I'm going to make a lot of money for us. And so I feel like that is a progressive ending. She got to choose love with the person who she'd had the deepest relationship with, but she was the provider. And if she didn't want to be in a relationship without a lot of money, she could be the one to change that. I wish they had shown her having that thought process a little bit more then versus I don't think we needed to see her being like matchmaking is terrible. I'm going to turn in my resignation and then her boss being like, well, actually, here's a promotion. There's one interpretation that the matchmaking industry had been ruined for her and so she couldn't authentically lead that agency. There's another interpretation

that she's really personable, really smart, good at knowing what people want. And she has a lot of skills that could help her make money long term. And so I don't necessarily see this and say, they're going to be broke forever and they're going to get divorced. Why can't we see that she's actually really talented? And maybe she can be the one in their relationship that makes money. Were you satisfied with the ending? I go back to what I said before, which is I think the movie really worked as a social commentary. I was less impressed with it as a rom-com. And I feel like maybe what would have been the best outcome for me is if she wound up with neither of them. If she was like, Harry, was a business deal. He wasn't the right person for me. I tried to make it work. I thought that's

what I wanted, but it didn't work. And John represents someone who was in my past, who I've outgrown, who hasn't shown the growth that I would need to see from him. And instead, I'm going to try being alone and figuring out what I actually do want. It really bothered me that in his like, quote unquote moment for growth, his growth that he offered was so, so tiny. He was just like, I'll take an acting job that I wouldn't have otherwise taken. I'll take a few more catering shifts. It was a like I understand that money is a huge point of anxiety for you because of how you were raised. And I'm going to take real steps to address that. So I think that in the beginning of the movie, she says, I don't want to have our anniversary

dinner at a halal cart. And then in the last scene of the movie, he grabs food from the halal cart and comes to her and proposes with a flower. And she says yes. And I think instead of saying she's giving up on her dreams because she told us what she needed, I actually interpreted it as she's changed what she's needed. And when she thought money solves everything, and that's the number one thing I should look for, I'm either going to die alone or find a rich husband. She realizes that's not actually what she wants.

And she realizes that what's more important to her is having this deep emotional connection with someone. And so the halal cart anniversary dinner and the flower engagement ring actually don't matter because she can provide. She even has this line when they're on the stairs where she says, I can take care of myself. And I think that that's something that she didn't realize before. So there's a a lot of scenes in the movie where the women kind of talk about settling more and more and more and more and the men don't like the Lucy keeps trying to push them like, well, what about a little? And they're like, no, I don't want older. I want exactly what I want. I feel like their ending is that demonstrably. Like he is not changing. What is he changing for her? She's changing

her law cart. She's changing like all these things. She's getting over her money anxiety. She's maybe going to get a different job so she can provide for them. How is he changing for her? So it sounds like what you would have wanted him to say is, I will stop acting and get a regular job to make more money. But we never hear her say, I want you to stop acting. She's actually excited about his acting. She thinks he is a good actor. She goes to his play. I think that we assume that what she wants is for him to make a huge pivot.

And maybe instead, they have a different type of dynamic. I just want him to, I hate the idea that all the changes are on her side. I just don't think that that's necessarily what we're supposed to. to think. He says, I'm going to move out of the apartment. I will make more money. He's saying practical ways to use the skills he has because he's 37. I don't know that he has a million skills to get a lot of other high paying jobs. But what it sounds like is he's had kind of a purity to his art. And he said, I am not taking commercial jobs. I'm not taking a job as a waiter. I'm only taking job as a cater waiter, which has a more flexible schedule. And so even though maybe it's not

the changes you would want, he's basically saying, I will sacrifice. some of my time and some of my dreams around my art to make more money. I'm curious, I guess, if you see this in the real world, like, that to create the life that we think we want or to get the love that we want, women need to settle more. Like, women are the one who have to make the changes and change their expectations and standards, and men kind of get away with not having to. I don't think about it that way. I think a lot of times people need to change their expectations. So a big part of my work is this idea of the three dating tendencies. And the three dating tendencies, the romanticizer, the maximizer, the hesitator is all about

expectations, right? Do you have unrealistic expectations of your partner? Unrealistic expectations of relationships. Unrealistic expectations of yourself. So a lot of the work that I do in coaching and a lot of the work that matchmakers do is they are helping people have realistic expectations. And a really good part of the movie is when Lucy, the matchmaker, is kind of over her job for a bit. And this woman comes in with a multi-page list and says, I need all of these things because

I deserve it. I'm a catch. And she says, you know, you're not a catch because you're not a fish. And she also says that she can't necessarily find all of those things for her. And so I think a lot of the work that people in my industry do is helping people understand you're great and I want to help you find love, but it may not exactly match what you think you're looking for. How do we know if we're settling? I don't really like to talk about the idea of settling. I think that people who are wise know what they really care about and they double down on those things. So really care about humor. I really care about kindness. I really want to find someone who wants kids because I do. I think if you focus on those things and are more flexible about the rest,

that's not settling. That's wisdom. The core question of the materialist, I feel like, is given the choice between the love we want and the life we want, which would we choose? If one of your clients came to you with that question, what would you advise them? I think I would say why does it have to be a binary choice between those two things. In the movie, they set it up that way, but as I said, I feel like the ideal ending that I would want is that she chooses neither of them. And she finds a life that she loves and a life that she can build while finding a partner that she wants to build it with. You said earlier, you don't think that people going back to their exes is almost ever a good idea. Yeah, in general, I think there's a reason why you broke up in the first place. I think

occasionally there's exceptions where it was, you know, you were living in two different states and you had to break up or you were really young and you find each other again. But I think oftentimes the reason we broke up is the reason that we'll break up again. Is there anything else that you want to get off your chest about the movie? One thing that I kept thinking about throughout the movie was, does she actually believe in love? She says to each of her clients, I believe you'll find the love of your life. I believe you'll marry the love of her life. And in the beginning, I was like, oh, maybe she believes this. But then towards the end, when she's narrating the scene at the wedding that they crash, she talks about how they're going to get divorced and how they're going to resent

each other and you're like, oh, you're actually like a skeptic of love and you don't believe this at all. And you really believe in the business of love, but you don't necessarily believe in love itself. But then I think towards the end of the movie, when she settles down with John, there is a sense that maybe her feelings have changed and maybe she's decided to give love a chance. Yeah, I thought that scene was so interesting. Also, did you notice that she was wearing like a frilly floral dress in their anniversary dinner? scene when they got in a fight and then they put her back in a frilly floral dress after having her in these very sleek outfits. Yeah. Or when they re...

I thought the dress that she wore at the wedding seemed off for her character. Her character. Like, why would she even have that in her suitcase for Iceland? I guess I just felt like the rest of her outfits were like super sleek. Yeah. Eritzia jackets. And then that one just seemed different. But yeah, the fashion in the show is incredible.

I loved it. I love Dakota Johnson. I also like I love anytime she gives an interview, please come on the podcast, Dakota, if you're watching this. She's really funny. I love her, but I also just, like, she's fun to watch. I thought Pedro was incredible. That it was really interesting that they centered such a big plot around height surgery,

which they also don't talk about. It is a deeply, I mean, it's a deeply. But he, like, couldn't play sports. You know what I mean after? Oh, for sure. And also the average surgery, I think you gain like one or two inches. Yeah, I think the six was ridiculous. He would be walking so gently.

Like, he wouldn't be able to just dance or he picked her up in one scene. Yeah, there were some scenes at the beginning. Like, I think the opening shot is him walking through the wedding, and he does have a little bit of a... Oh, really? Yeah. There's something about his walk that feels off kilter. Oh, that's a little bit of a... Good job, Pedro.

Like, that's so interesting. I just feel like I'm worried men are going to watch this movie and be like, oh, I'll just go get height surgery. I'll go in debt, get height surgery. And it's like, it's actually... I think their doctors will talk to them about what to expect. And also, I think that's more money than most people can afford it. It's not going to Turkey for a hair transplant. No, it's not.

But it is, it's an interesting thing. This is something that I was talking to a friend about is like, there's more beauty standards that women are expected to adhere to, but the male ones are much harder. So like balding and height are much harder to change, but there's less of them. And then women have to adhere to all these beauty standards, but they're perhaps easier to do something about. But it's also so expensive. I think that's why I liked it.

So much money on it, you know? I think that's why I liked it as a plot of the movie is that she keeps saying, you're a 10, you're a unicorn. Everything about you is perfect. And what he later reveals is like if you'd met me eight years ago, you wouldn't have thought that. I wouldn't have even been a contender for you or your clients. Yeah. And I like that it talked about how males are discriminated against for their heights.

And I think that that is a real part because like imagine if it somehow had been flipped where you had a male client who found out that the girl he was dating, you know, had fake hair and fake nails and all of that. Like I feel like we've seen that before. I've just never seen in a movie this idea that's like, oh, this man spent a quarter of a million dollars to change his height. And he says all the time that it was worth it. It was worth it for his job, for his friendships, for how he's treated at the airport, I think he says. Like it's every part of your life. Right. And I think that's so, I feel like that too.

I feel like I have to perform beauty. I hate performing it. And the entire world treats me different when I perform it. Yeah. And so I like the fact that it spoke about the fact that men and women are both superficial. Men want somebody with a really low BMI and, you know, someone who's really young and women want somebody who makes a certain amount of money and is a certain height. And that in the end, these two people who could get together and have this beautiful relationship

and get to the deep things that life and love are all about are sitting on opposite sides of the table saying you're not tall enough. You don't make enough money. You're not young enough. You're not thin enough. Can you leave us on what do you think is the real meat of a good relationship? Like what should we be looking for if it's not height, if it's not age, if it's not net worth, what's the meat of a good relationship?

According to relationship research, the things that matter less than we think they do for long-term relationship success are looks and money. Those things are great and people benefit from them, but there's this idea of adaptability. So over time, we adapt to what we have and we don't appreciate it as much. That's why someone who wins the lottery often goes back to the same level of happiness they had the year before. And the other things that people think matter more than they do are similar hobbies and similar personalities. And people try to find someone who's exactly like them versus someone who compliments them. And then what the science shows us does matter for long-term relationships

is things like loyalty, kindness, emotional stability, the ability to make hard decisions together, the ability to fight well. And then what's become the most important one to me, which is what side of you they bring out. Oh, that's interesting. I, have a theory. I tell my sister this all the time that she should manufacture a difficult situation early on in dating and see how they deal. Like put them in rush hour traffic while you're going somewhere for like an hour and a half and see what it does to their personality. Yeah, Dan Ariely calls that the canoe test. Oh. Where you can go canoeing with somebody and see how do you respond in rough waters? Can you coordinate your strokes? You get frustrated if you get lost. And so yeah, I think that

if people only go in vacation together and they only are in these really easy situations, then they may not know what real life is like together. And so I wouldn't manufacture a situation, but do notice how somebody responds under stress. And like, don't hide those situations from them, I think. Like, I'm a big fan of like hanging out with your dates with friends and like be your real self as much as possible because then you see who their real self is and you see if you guys actually are compatible. I agree. For people who want more Logan Yuri in their life, as I'm sure they will after listening to this, where can they find you? People can check out my book, How to Not Die Alone. They can follow me on Instagram at Logan Yuri.

I have a weekly newsletter that I send out. And for people who are interested in matchmaking, I have a service where I will connect you to the perfect matchmaker for what you're looking for. You're a matchmaker for matchmakers. That's it. Thank you so much, Logan. Thanks, Liz. You can find out more about Logan's matchmaking matches at Loganuri.com slash matchmaking.

And I am so curious what you guys thought of this movie. And if you agree with our take, so please DM me at a bare minimum, It is definitely the type of movie that sparks good conversations that we really need to be having more of. So I am grateful for that. I'm always grateful for anything that takes the unsaid and it makes it easier to be said. Make sure that you're following the pod wherever you listen. If you want to buy any of the delightful products that you heard about in today's episode, all of our brand partners are listed at lizmoody.com slash codes.

And we have such good discounts on pretty much the cream of the wellness crop, really incredible products for supplements and for workout routines and for beauty products. So definitely check that out. Also, I've been doing a ton of crazy stuff on Instagram and just creating a bunch of content. I've really like doubled down on it to be as helpful as possible to you. So come hang out. Let me know what you think. At Liz Moody on Instagram.

I love you. I hope you love this episode. If you did drop a review on Apple or send it to a friend, this is the best way to support the podcast. I know so many of you do it. It's so appreciate it. I love when you DM me and you're like, I sent this episode to four or five friends. I'm like, oh, I could squeeze you.

I appreciate you so much. And I will see you on the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. Thank you.