The Liz Moody Podcast - A NSFW Sex Q&A—Firing Up Your Libido, Upleveling Oral, Figuring Out What You Want (And Exactly How To Ask For It!) & More with Vanessa Marin

Episode Date: November 3, 2021

I’m so excited to welcome Vanessa Marin to the pod! Vanessa is a licensed psychotherapist with 20 years of experience in the sex therapy field. On this episode, we talk about: what a sex therapist is and exactly what they help with how to overcome shame around sex or types of sexual activities how to feel more confident (and body confident!!) during sex exactly how to navigate conversations about what you want sexually both early in a relationship and later down the line what to when your partner gets butt hurt by you sharing how you feel her best tips for keeping sex interesting in a long-term relationship the one sex position we all should be doing (but aren’t!) how to up-level oral sex how to not feel embarrassed about smells, looks, tastes, etc during oral sex what causes low libido (and exactly how to fix it) her surprising thoughts on scheduling sex a genius 5 minute, science-backed practice to fire up your libido one homework assignment we can all do to improve our sex lives TODAY To celebrate this episode, Vanessa has kindly agreed to give three lucky winners one of her courses for FREE—you can peruse all of her offerings over at vmtherapy.com.To enter, just make sure you’re following both @lizmoody and @vanessamarintherapy on Instagram, and then comment under the post about this episode one thing that you loved or learned. You can also get a bonus entry for sharing the episode on your stories! PS: My Patreon is live! You can join Green Smoothie Society and get access to ALL of my green smoothie recipes and advice! Get all the deets at patreon.com/lizmoody. This episode is sponsored by Modern Sprout, a small, Chicago-based company that basically makes it super easy for you to bring more plants into your life. I highly recommend their hydroponic grow kits if you’re interested in adding some plants you can’t kill to your life! You can use code Liz21 for 15% off your order on modsprout.com. This episode is sponsored by Dame Products, a female-owned, science-grounded line of products designed to make sex more enjoyable for peoeple with vulvas everywhere. I highly recommend the Arc, the Eva, the Pillo, and the lube. Visit www.dameproducts.com and use the code HEALTHIERTOGETHER at checkout for 15% off your purchase. This episode is sponsored by Paleovalley, who make incredibly high quality supplements. If you’d like to check out their Turmeric Complex, Vitamin C, Neuroeffect, or any of Paleovalley’s other amazing products, head over to paleovalley.com and use the code LIZM for 15% off. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello friends and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I am a cookbook author and long-time journalist. If I sound a bit nasal, I apologize. This is my first intro that I'm recording since getting my nose job. I'm about two weeks out and while I'm feeling so much better, my nose is still super swollen and it has stuff in there that I probably don't want to know about. If you're like, what? What nose job?

I have a ton more details on my Instagram, including all of the health reasons behind why I made the decision. And I'll be doing a whole episode about my rhino. Phaplasty next week. They'll cover everything from the deep, the implications of plastic surgery in today's society, the importance of nose breathing to the more surface level. Like, what surprised me about the healing process and what it was like for Zach to take care of me when I looked like that, which I was actually like weirdly nervous about. We've been through so much together, but I was like, is he going to be terrified when he sees my face? And like also me being so out of it like that after

anesthesia. So maybe I'll have him on and he can speak to it personally. This week, though, I have a super fun episode for you. I am so excited to welcome Vanessa Marin to the pod. Vanessa is a licensed psychotherapist with 20 years of experience in the sex therapy field and she's devoted to demystifying, debunking, and deshamifying the conversations that we have around sex, replacing like the candlelit movie scenes with super practical advice that you can actually follow in your bedroom. I promised you NSFW content for this episode and I really wanted to go there because I think it's so important to open up these conversations and remove the shame associated with them. But do consider this your warning to put headphones on if your situation deems that necessary. Because go there, we did. On this

episode, we cover exactly how to overcome shame around sex or types of sexual activities, how to feel more confident and body confident during sex, how to navigate conversations about what you want sexually, both early in a relationship and later down the line. Her best tips for keeping sex interesting in a long-term relationship, the one-sex position she thinks we should all be doing but aren't. How to up-level oral sex, what causes low libido, and exactly how to fix it, her surprising thoughts on scheduling sex, a genius five-minute science-backed practice to fire up your libido, and to send us home, she shares one homework assignment we can all do to improve our sex lives today. To celebrate this episode, Vanessa has kindly agreed to give three

lucky winners, one of her courses for free. You can pruse all of her offerings over at vmtherapy.com, but she has a sex position playlist. I got this after our conversation, and it is honestly, it is, I can't even say how mind-blowing it is. She has four play guides, a 30-day sex challenge, and her famous finishing school, which is a course all about using proven step-by-step techniques to have an orgasm both with a partner and on your own. To enter, just make sure that you're following both me. I'm at Liz Moody and Vanessa, she is at Vanessa Marin, M-A-R-I-N, Therapy on Instagram, and then comment under the post about this episode, one thing that you loved or learned. You can also get a bonus entry for sharing the episode on your stories, and like, please do that and talk about the episode with

your friends. This is the work of countering all of the negative programming that we've ingested about sex over the years, and it is so important. I'll share winners on my stories next week. Okay, I am so excited. So, with that out further ado. Let's talk about sex, baby. All right, Vanessa, thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. This is seriously such a huge honor. I'm really, really excited to be here. Can you start off just by telling us, like, what a sex therapist is? Like, do people give you all of the dirty details of their sex life all the time? Oh, yes, all the details. Yeah, a sex therapist is basically, as the name implies, some of the same,

somebody who helps you work on your sex life. So whether it's, you know, wanting to have happier, healthier, hotter sex, or you're running into some sort of challenges in your sex life, just any challenges, concerns, goals that you have for your sex life. That is what your friendly neighborhood sex therapist is here for. Have you ever heard anything? I feel like a lot of people might be like, oh, I might want to visit a sex therapist, but I'd be so embarrassed to talk to them about stuff. Have you ever heard something that you're like, that's gross or that you've actually had a negative reaction to or it's just everything totally on the table? Everything's really on the table. I mean, I've really developed a poker face over the years.

And I've also heard it all. So you really can't like shock me or surprise me. But I think for me, it also comes from this really deep sense that any like sexual, you know, desires that we have, as long as they're consenting adults who know what's going on. Like I really believe that anything flies. And I'm truly like, I'm fascinated by the endless number of ways that we discover to express ourselves sexually. So to me, there's never any sense of judgment around like, ooh, that's gross or I would never do that. It's just this really like endless fascination with human sexuality. Is there anything that you could say to somebody who does still have those sort of more shame-based reactions to sex? I know that's sort of a large conversation, but just

kind of off the bat since we went there. I mean, I think the first thing I would say is me too. You know, we all have some amount of sexual shame. I mean, I don't think that there's a way for us to be raised like in this world, in this culture in particular, and not pick up some amount of shame. And so, you know, for me, like, that's really a part of the work that I like to do is normalizing the shame and saying, you know, we don't have to like have these meta feelings about the shame. Like, I'm ashamed about the fact that I feel ashamed. Like, let's just recognize we're all in this together. We're all dealing with this on a, you know, sometimes even a daily basis. So that's okay. And most importantly, it's not our fault. Like none of us were

born feeling ashamed of sex. We were all taught to be. And so if we kind of can distance ourselves from it in that sense and recognize like, this isn't my fault. I didn't do this. And I can also choose to operate in a different way going forward. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay. So we're just going to get into like a ton of questions, sex conversations. I promise people some NSFW content. So I would like to go there as much as possible. But let's start off. I think one of the number one questions that my audience has is how they can feel more confident in the bedroom when they're having any sort of sexual activity. How can they feel more open and just like good about what they're doing? Okay. So you're going to hear me answer a lot of questions like starting off with

normalizing it because I think it's just so important for us to recognize that, you know, most of us have the same sort of struggles. So, you know, I've never met anybody who said, I'm just 100% wildly confident in the bedroom. Nothing ever rattles me. Nothing ever shakes me. I never feel vulnerable. Like that just does not exist. I mean, say hi, DM us on Instagram if you are that person, you know, all of us struggle in one way or another. So I think the thing with confidence is that we build it up to be this really big thing. Like, I'm so unconfident. And once I got, you know, once I get confident,

then magically my sex life would just be so much better. And so we turn it into this really huge concept and we fail to think about like, what does that actually mean? So from a very practical standpoint, like, if you're listening to this thinking like, yeah, I want to be more confident in the bedroom, like take the time to think about this question. What are the specific things that you would do or the specific ways that your sex life would be different if you had more confidence. So really being able to boil it down to something

like practical and tangible, like is it, I would try more sex positions. I would get on top. I would give my partner oral sex. I would allow myself to receive oral sex. Like come up with the specific things. And that I think is just such an important step of us recognizing like, oh, these are tangible things that I can work for. It's not this like giant amorphous concept of just confidence. And then I think the thing that most of us get wrong with confidence is we think that confidence precedes action. So we have this sense of like, oh, once I feel confident, then I'll do all of those things. But it's actually the other way around. It's action that precedes confidence. When we take some sort of action, something that requires confidence, that's what builds confidence,

right? It's like we take a little step, even if it's a teeny tiny little step, we take a step, we realize like, oh, I did that. I survived. I was like courageous and tried something different. That's what builds confidence. So I think, you know, I hope that that can feel really empowering to your listeners. It's not that you need to just sit around waiting for confidence to magically fall out of the sky and into your lap. Like, you can start off by taking these little baby steps. And that's what's going to build confidence. It's something that you have agency over, not something that you're just passively waiting around for. So is the idea then that we should actually start doing stuff somehow, like almost faking

it until we make it, like doing stuff before we feel confident enough to do it, like, like even if we don't feel like we should ask our partner for what we want or go down on somebody, just kind of like force through those feelings of discomfort and do it anyway? Well, I, so the word force, I think feels like a little too strong. But what I like to think of is trying to break something down into baby steps. So I think especially when it comes to sex, we all have this tendency to feel like it's kind of like all or nothing. Like I've got to show up in the bedroom and do all these wild fantasies and kinky things. Like that's the way that I, you know, get confident.

But making little changes, doing little things. Like that's actually going to feel so much more manageable. You're going to be able to work up the courage to do it rather than feeling like you have to jump into the deep end. And it's going to keep that momentum going forward. So what I mean by like, you know, doing something little like, it could literally be something as small as, you know what, I'm usually pretty quiet during sex. I'm just going to try breathing a little bit more. Or maybe the next time I have sex, then I'm going to try actually letting a few moans escape my mouth. So it's not that I have to think, oh, I just have to do this like Porn Star level dirty talk like zero to 60.

It's like, let me take these little tiny steps. Let me adjust my position a little bit. Let me make a small request of my partner, something really tame like, can you kiss my neck? you know so if we do these little things that's what helps us like keep that momentum going forward what about somebody who's struggling with body confidence during sex and they feel like that's really limiting them in the bedroom oh yeah yeah this is something that probably every person alive can resonate with in one way or another so with body confidence it's i mean it's definitely a huge topic and we could do the whole rest of the episode on this but one thing that i like to think about is trying to focus instead of what our body looks like on how our body feels. So, you know, I can like speak for myself. There are times where in the middle of sex, I'm like, oh my gosh, like my

stomach's really, you know, bent over in this weird position and it's not super flattering. Like, it's very easy for us to get distracted by thoughts of how our body looks. So in those sorts of moments, I try to take a deep breath and I try to redirect my attention into like, okay, well, what am I feeling in my body? What does it feel like to like to like, feel my partner's weight on top of me or feel his hand on my thigh or feel my breath like expanding in and out of my chest. So when I root myself back into like the actual sensations that I'm feeling, that helps me so much. And so it's like it's a continual process. It reminds me a lot of what people say about meditation. Like it's not that you're ever going to get to this point where your thoughts

are completely blank and you can just sit there like a, you know, an empty page for 20 minutes at a time. like the whole practice of meditation is we get distracted and then we gently pull ourselves back into the moment. And I think with body confidence, it's that exact same kind of process. Like you're going to get distracted by the thought, but then bring yourself back into your body. What about if you're worried that when you focus on how you're feeling, though, your partner will notice the things that you were noticing, you know? So you're just like, you're like, oh, it feels so good in my body, but you're worried, the thing that takes you away from that again is like, well, while I'm focusing on how good it feels for me, my partner is noticing my roles or I know a big sensitivity of a lot of people with vaginas as having

like the inner lips kind of extend beyond the outer lips because of what we see in porn or what's normalized, I think, in a lot of different, I don't know, environments. So what would you say to them where they're like trying to be in the moment, but the fear of judgment from their partner keeps taking them out of it. So the most important thing for you to recognize is that nobody else in the entire world sees your body in the same way that you see your body. Like your partner is not paying attention to the things that you think, like even if you think this is so obvious, it's right in their face. How could they not be paying attention to it? Like I promise you, your partner is not thinking about it. My business, my husband and I run it

together and we run our Instagram account together as well. And we did this, I've done this really awesome series a couple of times where I've had women, you know, kind of write in and say, here are the things that I'm really concerned about during my body, you know, during sex about my body. And I've asked him. And so obviously we're, you know, there's a heteronormative spin to this since we are a male, female, you know, cisgender couple. But I've asked him these kinds of things. And I've even pointed them out on my body. Like, okay, look at my little, you know, arm chicken wing flapping or my like armpit vagina going on. And it's such an interesting story. Like he does not understand. Like there were so many things that I was asking him about that he just

could not register. Like no, I am not thinking about this at all. And in particular, he was like, you know, when I'm having sex, I'm thinking about like, I'm having sex. I'm having a good time. I'm enjoying myself. Like I am not going to go to a place of, hey, let me be critical about the body of the person that I'm having sex with it. So, you know, obviously everybody is different. And again, there's a, you know, I'm talking about a heteronormative dynamic there. But I do think it's absolutely true that nobody else sees your body the way that you do. So Zach and I tried to do this TikTok series together where I was like, what do you think of my cellulite?

What do you think of my stretch marks? And the first few ones that we did like went viral, they were good. But we had to stop it because ultimately his answer for everything was like, I, don't think about it. Like, he was like, I'm not blind. I didn't notice that you have cellulite, but it's literally like, it's such a neutral thing. He's just like, yeah, a body has cellulite. Yeah, a body has stretch marks.

Like, why does it require more thought than that? Exactly. Yeah, I pointed out cellulite to Xander. And he was looking at it, just like really squinting his eyes. He's like, I mean, I see that there's something there, but like, that's just skin doing skin things. I think one of the things people mean when they say confident in the bedroom is the ability to ask for what they want. And I'm curious if you have any tips about that in a really kind of specific way because I know that a lot of people have had the experience where the person you're

talking to about it thinks that you're criticizing them or especially if it's been like a longer term relationship. They're like, well, we've been doing it this way for five years. Why is it all of the sudden not what you like, you know, or in earlier, newer relationships, you know, you're kind of feeling each other out and you don't want to put anybody off. So how do you deal with those conversations in a way that aren't scary and that are productive? Okay, so first I'll give a tip to anybody who might be dating or at the early stage of a relationship right now, like normalize talking about sex as soon as you start having it before you start having it, because it's so important for it to be this open communication between the two of you because I work with so many couples

who tell me, you know, yeah, we've been together 10, 20 years and like I told him that I like this thing that I actually didn't like. And now I've been pretending to enjoy it for 10 years. Like I think we really end up trapping ourselves and feeling like, you know, there's no way out of it. Now I just have to endure this move that I don't like for the rest of my life. So talk about it at the beginning. But for those of you are like, well, shoot, I'm already in that 10-year relationship. Like, it's not too late. So that's the advice first. It's like, it's never too late.

I can't tell you how many people are like, well, I said one time I liked it. So I'm not allowed to change my mind. I love to make a lot of sex and food comparisons. So I'm like, okay, well, if you told your partner, like one date night, you're like, hey, let's go to that little Italian restaurant down the street. Does that mean that you are locked in to every single date night? You only get to go to that Italian restaurant because one time you said it sounded okay. Like, no, that sounds totally ridiculous.

But we do this with sex. We feel like, yeah, one time I said it. So now I just have to live with it for the rest of eternity. So it's never too late to start talking about sex. Okay, so let's get into like some specifics about how to give your partner feedback. So some general tips would be, first one is I like to recommend talking about sex outside of the bedroom. So when you're naked and doing stuff with each other and you make a request of your partner,

like you're going to feel more nervous and kind of heightened because you're in the moment and you're feeling vulnerable. There's a higher likelihood that it might come out more as like a criticism or a complaint. Your partner's there in the moment. Like they're more likely to take it personally. So it's just it's like higher stakes to do it in the moment. So whenever you can, I think it can be really useful to talk about it outside of sex. So one particular time that I like talking about it is like right after sex because you've just had it. Things are like fresh in your mind. And there's a good opportunity to kind of share, you know, hey, yeah, let's talk about that experience. It just happened.

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And I feel my therapist is always yelling at me for being like, we're in a good place or a bad place and like kind of being very black and white about it. But that's my immediate thought is like I don't want to ruin the, the like oxytocin and serotonin and dopamine that we've just built by bringing up a conversation about what I didn't like about it. Okay. Well, I was just about to ask you, why do you think you're going to ruin it? But you answered my question.

And like, you think you're going to bring up something that you didn't like. So another piece of advice that I have for feedback is like, especially the first few times that you're sharing something with your partner, find a way of framing it in a positive way rather than in a negative way. Because of course, like, we all have tender little egos. And if any of us here, like, I don't like you doing that. Like, of course your feelings are going to get a little bit hurt, right? But when we're just starting to give feedback to your partner, like, there's a way that you can think of, like, what are the things that I like? I want more of one of the ways that I can redirect my partner versus like what are the things that I want to tell my partner not to do. I didn't like that. So, you know, it could be like,

for example, you know, oh, I really love it when we go super slow and we take our time before we even take our clothes off, you know, giving your partner some sort of positive feedback in that way. And I think that if we, you know, think about it as like the goal of us giving feedback is to be more intimate with our partner to have sex that feels more present, more connected, more playful, more alive. So like, that's a good reminder too. Like, you're not, you're not coming into it. Like, let me see how I can ruin my partner's ego and make sex terrible and get us into a fight. It's like, you know, you have really positive intentions. So I think if you kind of root yourself in those of like, okay, I'm feeling a little nervous to open my mouth, but let me remind myself, like, I want to feel more intimate with

my partner. I want us to be more open with each other. I want us to have really connected sex. Like, that can help you feel better about sharing it. And again, especially if you can phrase it in a way of like making a request, asking for more of something, giving a compliment about something that you did like, that's just going to be a better way to redirect your partner anyways. Does that make sense? It totally makes sense. But what if you don't know what you like, you just know that you didn't like what you just

did or like that you were met on it? Like it's not like it was the worst thing ever, but you're just kind of like, well, that was not what my, I'm not having these like amazing sensations, but I don't know what would give me them. Yeah. Okay. So I think a huge mistake that we make about feedback is we think of it as directions rather than actually as feedback. So a lot of us think of giving feedback and we think I have to ask my partner for what I want. I have to tell them what I want. And we really build that up in our heads as if like, okay, I've got to sit down and I have to write up my like 10 item manifesto of like the exact order of like first you need to touch my nipples and then you like tweak them for two seconds.

and then you like wrap your hands around and go to my butt. Like, you know, we've got to write up this huge. What's the Monica thing? Like two, seven, five. Yes. Like curly. Five, five. So we feel like we have to like hand that over to our partner and like, of course

that's going to feel really stressful. And most people are not going to be able to even, I don't know if I could even write that up. But instead, like, I think of feedback. What I encourage people to think of instead is what is something that you are curious about trying. So it's not even saying, I know I'm going to like this. It's just, I'm curious to try it. So you can do another food example here too, right? Like when I go to that little Italian restaurant for my date night and I order the lasagna, I'm not telling the waiter,

I would like the lasagna and I guarantee you a thousand percent. I'm going to love this lasagna. It'll be the best lasagna I've ever eaten. I'm going to eat every single bite. No. You're just saying, hey, that sounds good. I'm kind of curious to try it. I could get that lasagna back and be like, actually I'm not really so into this. Right. It's the same thing with sex. Like I can request that my partner spank me and maybe I'm like, yeah, not actually into that spanking. So when we make a request of something, it's not a guarantee, right? So if we get ourselves out of that mindset and instead, like, I love the word curious because for me, it just feels so open. There's so much energy around it. I'm like, yeah, all that I have to be is curious. There's enough.

interest within me to ask for it. There's enough like I look at the lasagna. I'm like, you know, this one's pretty good. Okay, I'll try it. There's enough interest there to ask for it, but it's not a guarantee that I'm going to love it. It reminds me of, I don't know if it was Elizabeth Gilbert, but somebody said in in relation to careers that you shouldn't try to find your passion, you should follow your curiosity because the weight of following your passion is heaty and filled with pressure. And it makes sense that sex as a both creative and, you know, you know, passionate and all of that act that that same advice would hold true. Like instead of being like, what am I passionate about and all of the weight that comes with

that being like, what am I curious about? And can I lean in that direction at every moment? And also knowing like with careers that that can change all the time. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, we change so much. I think again, it's like that, oh, I asked for it one time or I said I liked it one time and now I have to do it for the rest of my life. Like the way that you're having sex as a 20 year old is going to be really different from the way you're having sex as a 50 year old. And, you know, we have to make the space for that for those changes. But yeah, I love that. It's it absolutely applies to your sex life too.

What if you do everything right in this conversation and then your partner's still like a little butt hurt after? Just because of the implication that like. Yeah, that's definitely going to happen. Okay. Do you have advice for that? Yeah. I mean, I think it's important for us to acknowledge. Like, you can go into any conversation about sex or about anything else, honestly.

You can have the best intentions. You can have the best communication. And sometimes your partner is just going to get butt hurt. So we can't prevent that. We can't control our partner's reaction. The only thing that we can do is like to go into conversations like that with the best possible intentions. So if your partner does get butt hurt, step one is just to let your partner know, like, that wasn't my intention. So I talk a lot with couples about the difference between intent and impact, the intention that we had in a conversation or in our actions.

Like, very often the impact that we have on another person is really different. And that can be a very painful reality, like having to sit with those two things. Like, who of us has not had an argument with our partner where we're like, that's not what I meant. That's not what I was trying to say. Right. It's like really painful to notice those differences. But it's the truth. It's a reality.

And so I think just reminding your partner, hey, I can see that it's having X impact on you. And I have the space for that. And I just wanted to remind you that like my intent with this was Y. So letting X and Y be true at the same time. Give your partner a little bit of space to feel their feelings. Like you can always say, hey, do you need a little bit of time? Or, you know, I'm going to like go out and a walk for a little bit. Like sometimes just taking a little bit of a break to let your partner just feel their feelings.

And then come back to it afterwards. loop back around. And I would remind your partner again of your intention. So maybe it's saying something like, hey, I'm really sorry that, you know, me talking about oral sex technique, hurt your feelings. That really was not my intention at all. My intention in sharing that with you is I want us to be able to talk about sex, to be able to like share with each other openly and for us to like actively work on having the best possible sex life that we can. And I'm really sorry that it had this impact on you. And I have the space for that. So that's really the best. that we can do in conversations like communication is always going to go off the rails,

you know, at some point or another. And the best thing that we can do is just loop back around and try to repair it so we can move forward. I love that. I also love, I mean, I just think it really underlines the point that we can only be ultimately in charge of our part of the conversation. You can do every, bring everything positive to it, use all your tools and all of that. But ultimately, in every situation in life, like there's only so much you can do because you are one part of a two plus person, you know, interaction. Yeah. Yeah.

I think and is the most powerful word that couples can use in their communication is, is creating the space for like both people's experience to be true. Like, I meant this and you felt this. I'm thinking this and you're thinking this. Like just making the space for both instead of the dreaded butt. Like, I'm sorry, but, you know, it's making the space for both people's experiences. Do you have any tips to keep sex like very actionable, pragmatic, not like what you would get in a Cosmo list, but real life stuff? Do you have any tips for keeping sex interesting in a long-term relationship? And I guess as a sub-question, I'm curious if you think it's even a good goal to have sex be interesting over a long-term relationship or if that's something that we've been like trained to desire, but it's not actually necessary. And we should be happy with our vanilla sex for years and years and years because vanilla is a very delicious flavor. You know what? I have been asked how to keep your sex life spicy probably two million times. And nobody has ever asked me like, should that actually be the goal? And we're also planning doing a YouTube video about like, is it okay to like vanilla sex? So let me answer that question first. I do think that it is a worthy goal to continue like wanting sex to be interesting. But I don't think that's in conflict with just finding.

the things that you like and doing those. So there's no problem with enjoying vanilla sex. There's no problem with like, yeah, I love this position or I love this technique. That's totally fine. And I think one of the coolest things about sex is just that there is an infinite number of ways for us to explore and experiment and try new things. And I kind of think about it as like, well, why wouldn't we want it to be as fulfilling and enlivening and enriching and exciting as it possibly can? So I think we can make the space for both. Like, yeah, sure, sometimes on like a Sunday afternoon, all I want is some like, you know, lazy spooning sex and I don't need to do anything wild or, you know, kinky or anything like that.

That's totally cool. And maybe on Saturday night, I can push myself out of my comfort zone a little bit and try something different. I mean, I guess it's kind of like life in general. Like, it's totally fine to find your creature comforts and, you know, find things that you enjoy and keep doing those things that you enjoy. And there's an whole world. in front of you. So why not explore it a little bit? I actually, I have a little, like a reason that came to mind, though, which is that. And I'm going to get your actionable, like, pragmatic

tips in a second. But I think in the world that we live in, a lot of people just feel like they're so stressed. They have so much on their plate. They're overwhelmed. And they know they should be having sex. I think a lot of people know they feel better after sex, more connected to their partner, but turning it into a big thing feels so overwhelming to the point that like, it's almost like, well, should I even do it at all? Yeah, yeah. There's some really interesting research. I'm totally blinking right now on who did it.

But it was a relationship researcher. It's not John Gottman. But somebody who found that with couples, if their sex life is really struggling, it takes up like 80% of the relationship's energy. Like it really creates a drag on a couple's relationship. And yeah. And conversely, like when a couple is in a really great place in their sex life, it adds, you know, adds to their relationship, adds to their energy.

It's like this really expansive growth. So I think it's important for us to recognize that. Like, yeah, a lot of people feel like, oh, it's just so much work. And like, why bother? And I guess I'm just fine like this. But the reality is that that's really going to start to weigh on you, you know, individually and as a couple, it just creates this heaviness. And I'm not saying that there's one perfect sex life that everybody should be having.

Like, it looks different for everybody. But if there's not some way that you're actively engaged in it, then actively working on your sex life, then you're going to feel that heaviness. It reminds me in meditation where it's like, if you don't have time to meditate, then that's when you should be meditating the most. And it gives you, like, it makes you more productive in all of the time that you're not meditating. It makes you happier.

it makes you more able to get everything you need done. And I feel like that's correlative to sex and the health of your relationship. Absolutely. Yeah, it's really, like, I think of sex is an opportunity for us to like explore ourselves and kind of go deeper into ourselves. I think there's a way we kind of write off sex is like, yeah, you're just wanting to have an orgasm. I just wanting to feel good.

But it really is an invitation. Like, if you are so busy and stressed and exhausted that sex sounds like the worst possible thing to you, okay. sure, but like let's take a look at like what's going on in your life that you have no time, that you have no energy, that you have no rest, that you have no spaciousness. Like we don't have to just focus on like, okay, have sex twice a week and then you're fine. It really is this deeper invitation to take a look at like, what's really going on in your life? And is this the kind of life that you want to lead?

I think most people would say like, yeah, no, it's not. Like getting back to like the super practical stuff. So, okay, Cosmo did get it right in this. So like the answer to keeping a sex life spicy and interesting is by trying new things. So that's not rocket science. Like it's not any new information. We've all heard this advice a million times. But it actually is very true.

Like our brains just light up when we try new things. It keeps us so engaged. It keeps us feeling alive. It helps us see ourselves and our partners in new ways. It builds confidence. All kinds of stuff. There are so many benefits. But I do think like similar to what we were talking about earlier,

a lot of people hear the advice, try new things in the bedroom, and they immediately leap to, like, really complex, detailed fantasies. Like, I've got to, you know, we have to role play that I'm an 18th century noble woman and this, you know, warrior comes running into, like, you know, we get really complex. And again, it's like small changes can actually make all the difference in the world. And those small changes are going to be the things that you feel like, oh, man, I'm so exhausted. I'm so tired. what, okay, I could make one tiny little change. So even something like if you normally have sex at night, could you try having morning sex or maybe a little afternoon sex when it opens up? Can you try a different sex position? Can you try when you're doing a hand job? You usually go straight up and down,

give a little flick to your wrist. You know, so it doesn't need to be anything over the top or complex. It's those little changes that can make such a big difference. And we realize like, oh, that actually felt pretty different. Like sex positions are a great example. You know, you can have the same sex position and put a pillow under your butt or change the placement of one of your limbs and it actually feels like a totally different sex position. So trying new things, but in, you know, keeping with the theme of baby steps. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. When I worked as a magazine editor, I wrote more than a thousand articles about turmeric because pretty much all of the doctors that I used as sources, kept recommending it or citing it is one of the supplements that they would

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The vast majority of doctors I work with cite chronic inflammation is one of the root. causes of so many of our modern ailments. And research links inflammation with heart disease, diabetes, autoimmune conditions, cancer, arthritis, and gut issues like Crohn's and ulcerative colitis. I am never going to sit around and tell you that a supplement will cure everything that ails you, but if you're looking for a turmeric supplement to help get your inflammation under control, I am extremely impressed with paleo valleys. To increase the bioavailability of turmeric, you need to consume it with black pepper, which most people know, and fat. which many people forget about. Paleo Valley's turmeric complex has black pepper and coconut oil

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Vitamin C is my ultimate favorite supplement for skin health, and a neuro-effect mushroom powder that Zach loves for increasing energy and focus. So definitely explore their website. If you'd like to check out the turmeric complex, the vitamin C, the neuro effect, or any of Paleo Valley's other amazing products, head over to paleoValley.com and use the code Liz M for 15% off your order. And if you have any questions, feel free to hit me up on Instagram. I love chatting about this stuff. Now, let's get back to the episode. I was going to ask later, but are there any sex?

positions that you feel like are underrated that people like should be doing and they aren't like I think the pillow under the butt it's such like a simple thing but it angles your clit so differently oh yeah yeah angles and make all the difference in the world yeah we actually just released a sex position playbook so I've been doing a lot of like deep dive into positions trying to help people figure out like exactly what works and what doesn't I think one of the most underrated positions is like cowgirl. So I'm talking about like heterosexual coupling right now. Or actually it could be a same-sex couple like using a strap on or something like that. But particularly for a woman being on top, doing cowgirl where she's on top, but the partner

is propped up at an angle. So put a bunch of like pillows behind their back or if you have like a padded headboard. So what happens is when the partner's sitting up a bit, their ad muscle contract a little bit and it gives a slightly firmer surface for the vulva owner to grind up against. And this is so important because Volvo owners, we really need clitoral stimulation for a lot of us. Inercourse in and of itself, like just the penetration doesn't feel that great. So a way to make sex positions feel so much better is to incorporate more clitoral stimulation. So when the partner's sitting up a little bit, it just gives the vulva owner a really nice surface to grind up against like more pressure, more stimulation. So that one is such a great example, like a small change.

You probably have already done cowgirl, but it can make a huge difference. I love that. Can you give one tip? I'm not going to say for a same-sex male couple because while we might have some men listening to the podcast, they're certainly a very tiny minority. But a same-sex female couple, could you give an example for that as well? Yeah. So I mean, I think any sex position that, you know, that a male and female used together. Two women could use, you know, with using like a strap-on or something. I do want to point out that, you know, a lot of times we have this idea that lesbian women are like always using strap-ons and mimicking intercourse.

And that's actually kind of a small minority of women who do. But one really great position can be doggy style can be a really fun one because it's kind of an easier angle to do, especially if you're using a strap-on. sometimes they can be like hard to anchor in place and like fully get you know set up but doggy style can be like a really nice just simple angle to hit and it can feel like a lot of fun and if you're not using a strap on is there like because you said that's such a small minority of the sexual action for a lot of lesbian couples yeah so if you're not um my favorite like one of my favorite oral sex positions and this is for people of all genders but um my favorite oral sex position with a vulva owner

on top is actually like face sitting. So the giving partner will be lying flat on their back and the receiving partner on their knees facing the like their heads are facing each other. And you're kind of kneeling with your weight over your partner's face. So this is such a great position because for the person who's like performing the oral sex, it's really comfortable. I think most of us tend to perform oral sex when we're on our stomachs and it really like cranes your neck a lot. But when you're on your back, you're like super comfy. You can, you know, it's literally just there. So you've got everything to work with. You can use your hand to reach around and stimulate like in the vagina or around the butt as well. And for the vulva owner, they get to be in control of the like pressure. So you can

lower yourself more or kind of raise yourself up. You can move around so your partner's getting like on exactly the right location. So it's just super comfortable for the giver and gives the receiver. And gives the receiver a lot of control. So it's such a great one. I feel like people's hesitancy with that is like how much they're up in their partner's face with their vagina, vulva. Vagina, I'm going to, this is going to go like so old school biology. And I'm sure this is something I should know. Vagina is the, what's the difference between vagina and vulva? Can you just clarify that for me? No, it's a great question because so many people aren't sure. So the vagina is internal and the vulva is the external. So the vulva is what we refer to as like both sets

of lips, the clitoris, the mon's pubis, which is like the area kind of on the top where you have pubic hair. So the vulva is like the exterior. Got it. Okay. So I think what would you say to somebody who maybe can't enjoy oral sex as much and particularly in a position like that, which sounds awesome, but because they're worried about the smells or how stuff looks or tastes or anything like that. Yeah. Okay. So here's where we get really fired up that we have been taught to believe that our bodies. And I'm going to speak to women, like cis women in particular, because I think this is the demographic of vulva owners that gets like the most BS about this. So like as women, it's really complete and utter BS that we are taught from such. a young age that our genitals are rose and they're nasty and disgusting and they smell bad

and they taste bad and they look weird and they're icky. Like it's BS and it's really painful. It's really harmful and it's just complete and utter BS that we're taught this. And so, you know, for me like just kind of tapping into that sense of like collective outrage of how upsetting it is to know that there are so many women who are not allowing themselves to accept. experience pleasure because of all this crap that they've been taught. So I think that that can actually help. Like a lot of times women, we struggle with our own personal relationships with our bodies.

But if we think about like, yeah, it's shitty that like my, sorry, am I allowed to curse? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. It's crappy that my best friend was taught that she's supposed to be embarrassed,

that my daughter will be ashamed and embarrassed, that my, you know, my niece or whatever. So I think sometimes if we can tap into that, that can help it feel. a lot better. But, you know, the bottom line is that your body is beautiful and healthy and normal and perfect just the way it is. And also, this is something that your partner is definitely not

worrying about, especially if your partner is a heterosexual man. We've done some funny stories with Xander talking about it. And he's like, I've been fantasizing about vulvas and vaginas since I was like 12 years old. Like they can do no wrong in my eyes. So yeah, I just, I think it's really important for us to like kind of look at it in that global sense of like, this is really crappy that we're all taught this and to kind of look at the tradeoff that we have in front of us. Like I can choose to listen to all this crap that I've been taught and internalize that

and cut myself off from experiences of pleasure, from experiencing pleasure in my own body. or I can like give myself the space of like, yeah, I recognize and I've been taught to feel that. I do feel vulnerable. It's okay. I'm not going to put pressure on myself to be perfectly comfortable and I'm still going to choose to allow myself to receive. So I know that was kind of like a long convoluted answer. I get like really fired up and passionate about it. But I think it's really important for us to recognize that this is not our fault. It's not our fault that we feel this way. I totally agree. I also think it's such an interesting thing. I had a therapist on the podcast and she was talking about how often the best way to get women fired up or to take action.

And it's been shown in study after study is empathy for other people versus empathy for themselves. And I'm like, I don't know how to feel about it because I'm like, it's an interesting scientific thing to harness. However, I would love if we could be outraged on behalf of ourselves and have that inspire the action as well. You know, it's like we're always in the caretaker thinking about the other role. And I think that's a beautiful, magical thing, but also sort of a bummer. I think one like practical exercise that people can do is like imagine yourself on your deathbed.

I know this is a little morbid, but like imagine yourself on your deathbed and thinking back on your sex life and thinking, man, like I've been alive all this time. I'm about to exit the world. And my entire life, I didn't allow myself to receive pleasure. My entire life, I let myself internalize and believe all this BS that I was taught. My entire life, I cared more about my partner's experience during sex than my own. So like imagine yourself in that kind of situation. I think that can help us tap into that sense of empathy for ourselves. Like, oh, man, that feels really, you know, for me, I think about it right now.

Like, that feels really heavy. It feels really sorrowful. Like, I don't want to, I don't want that to be my life. And I think that same thing can be applied to some of those less comfortable conversations as well, because it's like, would I rather be uncomfortable for, you know, five minutes, 10 minutes a day versus not get this thing that I want or not have this type of pleasure for the rest of my life? Exactly. Absolutely. Can you talk about low libido generally?

Like what about somebody who's listening to this? And they're like, well, that all sounds great. But like, the idea of doing that is just like, I'd rather read a book. Yeah. Okay. So the thing about libido, the most important thing that we need to recognize, is that libido is a luxury for the body. So if things are going on in your life,

other things that are taking up your time, your attention, your energy, your body is not going to devote any additional resources to feeling libido. So I think when it comes to libido, a lot of us have this tendency to be really judgmental of ourselves

and kind of beat ourselves up, like something's so wrong with me, I'm broken, like I never want sex. And this is kind of like what I was saying earlier about how I think sex is this invixt is this invitation for us to look deeper within ourselves. Like, if you're not feeling any desire for sex,

and to be clear, there is no, like, perfect sex drive that everybody should have. We're all incredibly unique. But if you just feel completely disconnected from that part of yourself, that is this opportunity to take a look at, like, what is going on in my life that's taking away any energy that I could be spending on desire? And so I kind of broke it down into a, I call it, like the five foundational model of sex drive. Because I know that sounds like a big lofty question and you're like, well, I don't even know where to get started. So it can include like biological things. So are you

experiencing any sort of injuries, illnesses, medications, mental health can definitely fall into this category. There's the mental. Like what are the things that you've been taught to believe about sex? What are like maybe ways that you get distracted in the moment during sex? And it just you find yourself struggling to be present with it. There's the emotional. So sex obviously stirs up a lot of different emotions for us. It can tap a lot into shame like we were talking about earlier. Maybe a sense of safety comes up for you. Lots of different things there. There's the relational, which I think is a really underlooked one, is like, you know, what is your relationship like with your partner? So many people, you know, tell me, oh, something's so wrong with me. I don't have any desire to have sex.

And then we start digging into it a little bit more. And it's like, well, you're feeling completely disconnected from your partner. You're angry at your partner for this unresolved thing you guys have going on. Like, why would you want to be having sex with that person? That doesn't make any sense. And then the fifth foundation is what I call sensual. And so that really gets into the actual quality of the sex that you're having. So this is another extremely important connection that so few people make, the enjoyment desire connection. If you're not feeling the desire for sex, ask yourself, is the sex that I'm having, is it worth craving? So if you're having sex, it feels boring, there's no pleasure, there's nothing in it for you,

it's predictable, it's routine, like, why would you crave that? It doesn't make any sense. But I think a lot of us, like, when we hear that, we're like, oh, crap, yeah, I get it. But before that, a lot of people just, like, don't put those things together. So, yeah, five different categories of things to look into that hopefully will make it feel a little bit more manageable for, you know, people to kind of start breaking it down and thinking about what could be coming up for me. But the bottom line is that if you're not feeling desire, it's for a reason. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. I am a proud and unapologetic

plant lady, and to be honest, I kind of don't get why anyone want to be. There are literally hundreds of studies that show that having plants around boosts your mood and mental health, and they take any space and make it look instantly chic and well decorated. I had to over a hundred plants in our New York City apartment when we left. Seriously, I counted. Okay, so plant peeps. Let's talk about Modern Sprout. Modern Sprout is a small Chicago-based company that makes it super easy for you to bring more plants into your life. They make it super easy for even people who completely lack green thumbs, which ironically is definitely me. Zach handles most of the plant growing in our household to grow their own herbs or decorative

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been featured on the Today Show and in food and wine, real simple, architectural digest, and more. The company itself is also just A-plus. They've partnered with the NPO American Forests and donate a portion of the proceeds from select products towards reforesting. In 2021 alone, Modern Sprout is slated to plant 50,000 trees. So awesome. If you want to try Modern Sprout for yourself, I highly recommend starting with one of the hydroponic grow kits that I mentioned, and you can use my code Liz 21 for 15% off your order on modsprout.com. Again, that's Liz 21, the number two, the number one, for 15% off your order on modsprout.com. Happy plant growing friends. Now let's get back to the episode. So I have two sort of angles of questions about that. One is if we need to fix everything

on that list to kind of feel the desire that we want to feel, what about if it's something unfixable? Like, what if we have chronic illness or anxiety or depression or things that we're kind of going to live with for a longer time and not be able to just eliminate so that we can have our libido back? So I don't like to think about it as like fixing things. And I also don't think that you have to like go through this laundry list of, okay, here are all the things that I have to fix before then all of a sudden I'll have like a sex drive.

but I think that it is important for us to be like engaging with it in some way and for us to give ourselves that validation. So it can actually be a huge step for a lot of people to say, you know what, I have this chronic illness and that is affecting my libido. And it probably will affect my libido to some degree or another for the rest of my life. There can even be like a grief that goes along with that of recognizing like this is always going to be something that's going to challenge me. And I think that that acknowledgement, that validation is so important. It actually can be really, really healing. But that being said, like, there are always things that we can do to, like, to change the situation, to, like, bring us into a deeper connection with our own sexuality. So,

like, even that validation can feel like, okay, I get it. I'm going to, I'm giving myself some permission. I'm being gentler on myself. I'm not beating myself up for like, why do I have no libido and something so wrong with me? Like, I'm recognizing. hey, this plays a factor. But again, it's not that you're ever going to get to this. I'm definitely not saying like, just have a perfect life and then you'll want sex all the time. There you go. There's my prescription.

But the act of like saying, hey, you know what? This is something that's going on in my life that I want to take a look at. You know what? My mental health is really struggling. And I want to see a therapist. I want to start talking about medication. You know, that is really, really important. And you're going to feel a deeper connection to yourself when you engage in in some aspect of wellness and, you know, in your own well-being.

And that's going to help you feel more connected to your sexuality, too. That makes sense. And the second sort of angle I have a question about it is, is like almost a chicken egg thing. Like I know from the relational perspective, often I feel more disconnected from Zach when I feel like we're not having sex. And then we start having sex. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, what's wrong with our? relationship like blah blah blah and then we just like have sex and it's totally fine and we're in a groove again and we're flowing so how do we know when like sex is the problem versus when sex is

the solution oh that's such a good question and i have definitely experienced that many times myself um so for that there are two different kinds of people there are people who want to feel connected first before they feel open to sex. And there are people who have sex to feel connected to each other. And so obviously, like, nobody is 100% of one or the other. But it sounds like maybe you're a little bit more in the sex creates and leads to emotional connection kind of realm. And so I'm the same as well.

So that's why I really relate to that. I'm like, yeah, sometimes we just have sex. I'm like, things are feeling a lot better. So there is no way for us to like fully untangle, like, what comes first and what needs to be, you know, worked on first. It's really being able to honor and acknowledge and make the space for both. And ironically, in relationships, like, we usually wind up with somebody who's the opposite type. So that can lead to like a really, a feeling like a kind of a standoff in relationships of like, well, I want to feel connected before we

have sex. Well, I need to have sex in order to feel connected. But we have to make the space for both. And this is one of the really interesting things about the sex therapy field is that it's been really divorced from relationships. So I'm a licensed psychotherapist. And to get my license, I had to take a one unit course on human sexuality that basically just taught me like penis and vagina and how a vagina is different from vulva. And so I had to like explore all this additional. I know I'm good. I can get my. Exactly.

I can get my degree. So I had to get all this. And so I've, you know, I used to have. have, when I used to have a private practice, now I focus on online courses, but when I had a private practice, almost all of my clients would come referred to me from, from couples therapists. And they say, you know, we've been in couples therapy, but we tried to talk about sex. And our therapist said, sorry, I don't do that. And so it's just, it's really wild that there aren't a lot of people who talk about the intersection between the two because all relationships experience both.

And again, there's no like perfect or right sex life that everyone should have, just as there's no perfect or right relationship. But like those, that emotional intimacy and physical intimacy exist at the same time. And we have to give energy and attention to both of them. So in a pragmatic sense, like, is there a way to know should I just like fucking have sex today even if I don't want to? And that will make me feel way better about my relationship overall. So I would first like think a little bit like think back. to your past experiences and try to get a sense of like, am I the person who usually feels more emotionally connected after I have sex or do, you know, do I feel like I'm not? So I never like giving

people the advice to like, just do it, just have sex, force yourself to have it. You hear that a lot for like low libido. So I cannot tell you how many people are like, I told my doctor, I have low libido and they said like, just grit your teeth and get through it. So that's not the advice at all. but if you kind of have this self-awareness. So for you, again, like in your situation, it sounds like you could remind yourself of, you know what, this is something that tends to come up for me is I feel pretty disconnected before we have sex.

And I usually tend to feel a lot better after sex. So if it feels safe for you to do that in your relationship, like with your partner, I would say, you know, you can get started. The other thing is you don't have to commit to like having sex. It could be, you know what, let me go make out with my partner for like five, 10 minutes and see if I start feeling interested in doing more, see if I start feeling closer. If you don't, like, don't push yourself to have sex if you're not in that mood.

But if you have that self-awareness of what your patterns typically are and it feels safe in the moment, then it can be really nice to ease your way into it in that sense. It's so annoying how much like self-awareness is the key to everything, but it's so hard. I know. It also does loop back around to another really. important thing about libido, which is the two different types of sex drive, spontaneous sex drive and responsive sex drive. So most people have never heard of these terms and like don't know that there are two different types. And we can get into it more if you want to or I can just

quickly share this part is that the responsive sex drive types, they need to feel turned on in their bodies first before sex starts to feel interesting mentally. So that's another good piece of self-knowledge, self-awareness to have. So some people aren't going to feel like if you will ask, you know, find a responsive sex drive type like in a random day and say, hey, do you want to have sex right now? A hundred times out of a hundred, they're going to say no. But it's because they need to feel that desire that arousal starting to build in their body before their head jumps in and it's like, oh yeah, this sounds like a good idea. Let me continue. So that can be another piece of the puzzle for you. If you're like, I feel disconnected, I have no desire, I don't want to.

like, again, if it feels safe in your relationship to try getting started, like, give your body some physical stimulation and see if your desire starts to kick in and you're like, hmm, yeah, actually going further sounds interesting. Speaking of like the idea of quote unquote forcing it or like the doctor prescribed sex, what are your thoughts on scheduled sex? I love scheduled sex. I think that it is such an underrated tool. And I will say like years and years ago when I

first heard about scheduled sex, I was horrified by the idea. And I thought like, oh my God, if I ever have to schedule sex in my relationship, then that is a sign that our sex life is just dead. But I've really come around on that one. And I've realized that I think that we put this, we have this judgment of scheduling sex, but the reality is that most of us lead very scheduled lives. And we don't put a judgment on scheduling. So like my, Zander and I, you know, know, we scheduled date nights with each other. Do we ever, like, judge that? Like, wow, the romance is really dead if we have to schedule a date night.

No, like, we get excited about date night. It's fun to, like, have that on the calendar and know that we're, you know, about to do that. Same thing with, like, if I want to see one of my friends or I want to hang out with my parents, like, we schedule it. We pick a date that we're going to do it. So I think that there, of course, there's a way to schedule it that feels really, like, boring and a lot of pressure. Like, you have to do it.

And it's exactly 630. on Wednesday night, you have to do it. You know, it can feel, of course, terrible. But I think the way that we schedule it can make such a huge difference. If it's something that we can build up that sense of anticipation and excitement, for a lot of people, like, knowing that it's coming, can create that sense of, like, excitement, something to look forward to. And the other thing with scheduled sex, I think is so important for us to recognize,

it's like, a lot of people will tell you, like, oh, but sex just, it's felt so much more spontaneous in the beginning of our relationship. And we really glorify this idea of spontaneity. But if you really think back to the beginning of your relationship, it's never really all that spontaneous. Like, you're still scheduling dates, like setting specific times to hang out with each other. And when you have dates, like you spend all this time and this energy, like getting yourself excited, getting ready for the date, calling your friends and like figuring, out your outfit and listening to your favorite songs and all this kind of stuff. Like, we put a lot of effort into, you know, planning and anticipating intimacy. And so I think if we, if we look at it in

those ways and recognize like scheduling isn't, you know, this like boring, terrible commitment we're making it to each other. It's like it's actually a way that we can get excited about spending time with each other and feeling like we're prioritizing each other. That can have a totally different feel to it. There's also a number of studies that support the idea that most, you know, that most people, obviously there's outliers, but most people get more pleasure and satisfaction out of anticipating good things, whether it's like planning a vacation or like a date or anything like that. And so it's almost like by scheduling it, you're bringing that anticipatory excitement into your sex life that you wouldn't have with this spontaneous, which is like an extra benefit. Absolutely. Yeah. One of my favorite studies in that realm was they did studies on people who are gambling.

and they took a look at like the dopamine in their brains right before they pulled like the little lever on a slot machine and compared it to when you actually won money. And so you would think like, okay, nothing in the world is more pleasurable than free money. Like of course their dopamine levels would be higher. But actually it was the opposite. It was right as they were about to pull that lever that there was the most dopamine. And so that is exactly illustrating what you said. Like the anticipation of pleasure is more pleasurable than the experience of pleasure itself. So this is like a super quick little game-changing trick that you can use with libido if you want to like kind of fire up your libido is spend five minutes anticipating yourself having really

great sex with your partner. So just see it like in your mind. Like where are you guys? What are you doing? What are you saying? What's going on? What's happening? Like in as much detail as you can. And this serves as like a fun little side benefit of also helping you identify what it is that you like. You know, you're like, what is it that you're picturing? Because that's probably a pretty good clue that's something that you like. So yeah, just spending like five minutes really, really visualizing and letting yourself sink into that experience can absolutely fire up your little. I also have a hot tip about date night, which is that if you're like me and when you do a date night, you go to a restaurant and you eat way too much food, have sex before you go to the rest of, restaurant because then you won't be like way too full to have sex, which is always,

and I always feel like it's like, it's like a downer of a date night ending. You like go have this romantic evening. You come home and then you're just like, I really just kind of want to like lay on the couch and digest my food. But if you have sex before, it's like the whole dinner is a little sexier and you're not super full. That is one of my favorite tips in the entire world. In general, I think that like the idea of nighttime sex,

I am really saddened that we have this like built up in our head that like, oh, when we're crawling into bed at the end of the night, that's when we're supposed to get hot and sexy. Like, no, like when I'm crawling into bed at the end of the night, I'm exhausted. I'm like already thinking about falling asleep. I'm thinking about the next day. I've had a long day. Like, it's very rare for me to get to the very end of the night and be like, okay, let's go. Let's do it. And so I think that if you even.

Also, it brings up like all of my anatomical anger because. if we have sex at night, I have to like wait up until I gather enough liquid in my body to pee so I don't get a UTI. And Zach like falls the fuck asleep. And I'm just like, well, this fucking sucks. I just have to sit here, watch you sleep and wait for my body to accumulate pee. Exactly. Also, yeah, Zander like gets totally knocked out by sex and I get very energized by sex. So if we have it at night, he's like immediately asleep. Like he's like pulling out and already asleep and I'm like ready to get. And then I get angry, like, irrationally angry at watching him sleep while I'm just standing there. But it's terrible. It's the worst time to have

sex. And especially if you're like a really busy couple, especially if you have kids, like, it's the worst time to try to have sex. So I love like I love having sex before a date night for the exact reasons like you mentioned you're not bloated. You're not drunk. You're not like feeling weird. And it makes it feel sexier. But also like even if you're, If you can't do it that early, could we at least like push the timeline back a little bit? So as early in the day or as early in the evening as you can, depending on your schedules, of course, like try to prioritize sex then. And like that one change in and of itself will make a huge difference in your sex life, I promise. Yeah, it's interesting the whole timing thing.

Because I think there's there's some really interesting research into people's different chronological rhythms and when the best time is to have sex based on that. And then for me, I'm always trying to figure out like, like, I think I'm a mid-afternoon girl, if possible, which is sometimes, you know, when I had a full-time job in an office that made it much harder. I love morning sex, but I always wake up needing to poo and I have very regular digestion. So that complicated thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think afternoon sex is very, very highly underrated. I think it can be so much fun. Of course, depends on people's schedules with it.

There's a whole song about it. Yeah, for sure, for a reason. It's great. So I think like whenever you can, I think a lot of times people have the tendency to feel like, oh, I just can't do that. Like, that's not my schedule. And yeah, there's not ever going to be a single sex or life tip that's going to work for every single person. But I think if we try to take this perspective of like, how could I make this work for me or for my life? Or even if it's just like one day a month, we have the opportunity to do it. Like jump on it. Do it. Literally jump on it. I was going to say, I was these days with more people like working from home than ever before, you can just like block off one of those vague meetings that you don't ever say who the meeting is with. You put it on your calendar. And you're like, well, I guess I can't come to this call, Jerry. I got a meeting. Exactly. I know. We have no excuses right now with most of us working from home. So it could just be so fun to break up the day with that. And when you have more energy, more excitement about being with each other, it makes a really big difference. So I have a zillion more. questions to ask you. So I think we're definitely going to have to have you back on. I feel like we should do like a regular like sex conversation session. There's so much to talk about. But could you leave us with one sexual homework assignment that we can actually like take and try today or this week? Yes. Okay. So let's have you think about. I want you guys to think about like let's look back on your

sexual experiences, and I want you to start making a list of things that you like, because this is kind of what I started thinking about this a minute ago when we were talking about a different question. I think a lot of times when it comes to like giving feedback or making requests, a lot of us feel like, I just don't know. I don't even know where to start. And the reality is, like, you have lots of experiences. Well, most of us, you know, have lots of experiences that you can look back on and you can kind of dig around for clues.

So get a sense, like start writing down things, even no matter how big or small. it is. But like, what are the things that you already know that you like? Because I can promise you that you're going to have more things on that list than you realize. And that's really going to help you, like, get a better sense of who you are, what you like sexually, and give you some more confidence and motivation to keep exploring. I love that. I love that. Can you tell people where they can find you all of your wonderful courses? I definitely know people are going to be interested in that sex position guide. I am certainly interested in that. Absolutely. Yeah, I would love to connect with your community. So I'll give you two places to find me. One is on Instagram and my handle is Vanessa Marin Therapy. My husband, Xander, and I actually run it together. And we show up in stories every single day and talk about different like sex and relationship stuff. And what we're really trying to do is help couples open up the conversation. So we actually have been talking a lot about face sitting the last few days. And we've been getting so many DMs from people saying like, oh my God, my partner and I have never talked.

about this before and I just had this conversation and realized that my partner is really into trying it. So definitely come on over there, shoot me a DM and say hi and let me know that you found me through the healthier together podcast. And then you can also find me on my website at vmtherapy.com. My initials, I was not smart enough to gather up like all the same handles for all the different places. But we have a page at vmtherapy.com slash free that has tons of different, like free guides and resources that you can check out. So I would love to connect with you in either of those places. Amazing.

And I'll definitely, I'm going to have you back on for sure. I have so, I want to talk about blow jobs. I want to talk about orgasms. I want to talk about kink. So we will have you back on. Rest assured listeners, she will be back to talk about more stuff. But thank you so much for coming and sharing all of this amazing wisdom with us today. Thank you so much for having me.

It's really been so much fun. I hope you love this episode with Vanessa. She answered so many of my questions, but I still have so many more. So we will definitely have to have her back on. Also, do not forget to enter the giveaway to celebrate this episode. You can just follow at Liz Moody on Instagram. That's me. You probably already follow me. I hope you already follow me. We're friends, aren't we? And then also make sure that you're following her. She is at Vanessa Marin, Marinas, M-A-R-I-N therapy. And then there will be a post in my feed, and you can just comment under that what you liked or learned from this episode. And then you can get a bonus point if you share just like a screenshot of the

episode or your thoughts on it on your stories and tag me so I can see it. And so I can see what you learned. And so we can continue this very important and honestly very fun conversation that we're having around sex. All right. I hope you love the episode. I will see you on the next episode of the healthier together podcast next week. We're going to be talking about my nose. All right, have a great day. I love you guys. The number one rule of habits is to make the things that you want easier and the things that you don't want harder. Yet so many of us want to eat healthier, but so few of us actually take the steps to make eating healthier easier. That's where Marley Spoon comes in. What I love about this company and what's different than all of the other companies out there that are doing like

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