The Liz Moody Podcast - Arielle Lorre—A Super Raw Conversation About Rock Bottom, Plastic Surgery & Hollywood Life

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

Arielle Lorre is the host of the Blonde Files podcast and creates content for her incredibly popular Instagram account, but she’s also lived such a life. On this incredibly raw and vulnerable episode, we talk about: Battles with addiction Hitting rock bottom How she recovered from the PTSD of finding her friend after she was killed Experiencing regular substance-induced seizures How she finally got sober What Hollywood life and parties are actually like (she’s married to producer Chuck Lorre) Exactly what plastic surgery she’s had How she solved her gut and hormone issues And so much more! We recorded this episode right after Arielle interviewed me for her podcast, The Blonde Files. That episode is one of the rawest, realest I’ve ever recorded, and Arielle inspired me to share a lot of parts of my past, including my own drug-induced seizures and the trauma they caused me. You can find that episode over on The Blonde Files wherever you listen to podcasts. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode, so definitely screenshot and tag me (@lizmoody) and @ariellelorre as you’re listening and anything strikes you—I’m super curious to hear your reactions to this one. Enjoy! PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy on Amazon or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! This episode is sponsored by Better Help, an online therapy platform that I use and love. On their website, you answer a few questions and are matched with a licensed, professional therapist, who you can be chatting with within 24 hours. You can also schedule weekly video or phone sessions, so you have multiple ways to have therapy in a way that’s convenient for you. Join over 500,000 people using the super affordable serving worldwide by using the link betterhelp.com/healthiertogether to get 10% off your first month of service. It’s changed my mental health and I truly hope it helps you! This episode is also sponsored by Simple Mills, a company that makes some of the best grain free snacks and baking mixes you can buy. On this week’s episode, I shared how to make the best ever healthy cheese board with grain free crackers, but honestly, you can’t go wrong with any of their products! You can get a whopping 20% off your order on SimpleMills.com by using the code “heathiertogether20” when you check out. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and if we haven't met before, hello, welcome. Hi, it is lovely to have you here. You have no idea who I am. I am a longtime journalist living in Brooklyn where you'll find me working on pieces for places like Mynob, Marie-Clair. I am also the author of two cookbooks and, of course, my very favorite role, the host of this podcast where I get to interview wellness personalities with extraordinary stories

and share them with all of you. And today's guest has a crazy, crazy story. Ariel Lora is the host of the Blanfiles podcast, and she creates content for her incredibly popular Instagram account, but she has also lived such a life. She tells it better than I ever could, and we get deep into it in this episode, but there are battles with addiction and abusive relationships,

and there are seizures, and there's even a point where Ariel walks in on her close friend, who has been murdered and all of the inevitable PTSD that comes with that. It's super intense and Ariel is so brave and so open in this episode. She is sober now and she has all of this incredible wisdom and a deep sense of serenity that she's clearly earned the hard way. But she can also articulate it really well so that we can take the learnings without having to go through everything that she had to go through.

Ariel is living now in L.A. with her husband who happens to be Chuck Lorry, who is the producer of shows like Big Bang Theory and the Kaminsky method. And we definitely talk about all that too. You know, I love my celeb gossip. And we wanted to talk about like what it's like to actually be married to somebody who is so successful and so famous, especially after having to essentially rebuild your own life from the ground up after years of struggling with addiction. And then finally, we get into plastic surgery. because one of the many things that I love about Ariel is how open she is about all of her procedures. There are so many people in the wellness world who get work done. It's like they'll be on magazine covers talking about just drinking a ton of water and using non-toxic skincare. And then I'll know for a fact that they're getting procedures done or doing injectables and fillers and Botox and all of that. And it's all fine, completely fine. I'm so supportive of people doing whatever they want to do to feel good.

but I also really feel like they should be honest about it because otherwise we're creating these incredible unrealistic standards that people are holding themselves to and feeling really bad about themselves. So Ariel is super open, super honest about all of that. And she also had really different reasons than I thought for getting her work done and I'm really interested to hear all of your thoughts on that.

We recorded this episode right after Ariel interviewed me for her podcast, which is called The Blonde Files. It's really good. I highly recommend you listen to all of the episodes, but especially the one that we recorded together. That episode where she interviewed me is one of the rawest, realest episodes that I have ever recorded. Ariel inspired me to share a lot of parts of my past that I have never shared anywhere else before, including my own drug-induced seizures and the trauma that they caused me and the PTSD that honestly I'm still working through now and is a really big part of my own anxiety story.

Both episodes are extremely raw and open and vulnerable. And I really hope that this conversation helps you as much as it helps me. And I definitely recommend listening to essentially both halves of the conversation on the blonde files and then here so you get the whole story. Also, to celebrate our little podcast swap, Ariel and I are doing an epic, epic giveaway worth over $400 on Instagram. So definitely head over to at Liz Moody to check it out and to enter. And I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode as well. So definitely screenshot and tag me and at Ariel Loria as you're listening and anything strikes you. I am super, super curious to hear your reactions to this one.

One final note. I was just getting over a very gnarly, very terrible cold as we recorded these two episodes. So if I sound a little nasally or a little froggy, I am sorry. I had taken all of the manuka honey that I could. I promise. All right. Let's get into it. All right, Ariel.

Welcome to the podcast. Yeah. We just did a whole awesome episode on her podcast, The Blonde File. So I think we're going to post the same week so you can get like a double dose. So this will just sort of be a continuation of that conversation, I think. So like you do, I also like to start at the beginning. So let's rewind to the beginning of your life. I wish we had like a sound effect like, like they do in Hamilton where they're like, rewind.

add that pretty easily. Maybe you could. I'll edit from podcast, which I find very impressive. You make it sound like it's really hard. It seems really hard to me. It's a skill. It's more time consuming, I think, than anything else. But it also helps me like re-familiarize myself with the content.

Yeah. I'll listen back to the whole thing to find quotes and stuff like that, which is let me tell you, if you want to work on a weird part of your brain listening to yourself talk for an hour is like a, I don't know what practice it is, but it's a practice. Practice and patience and like self-forgiveness. Very much so. All right. So let's talk about where did you grow up?

What was your childhood like? I grew up in Rhode Island. And my childhood was very kind of idyllic. You know, I had, I grew up with like the white picket fence, golden retriever. My dad was a doctor. My mom stayed at home. It was me and my older brother. I was very creative.

and very active and I like went to private school and had a lot of friends. And it's funny. I mean, that's how I remember it at least. At the time, I was, you know, I had a really good childhood. But I think from the get go, I was always looking for something outside of myself to make me feel better. And that's something that like I only recently recognized after I got sober. To feel better about what? I just kind of felt like I couldn't self-revellinger. regulate. So I always kind of felt like lonely or like uncomfortable or anxious. I don't even know. Like I couldn't name them at the time. You know, I just kind of felt like I needed something to like make me whole. So even at like I remember being like eight or nine years old driving with my parents and we saw a little red convertible for sale on the side of the road.

And it became this like obsession for me. And I was like, we buy it now so that when I'm 16 in eight years, that'll be my car. And like I thought that it would make me feel better or like putting a pool in in our house, like things that like a kid shouldn't really be thinking about. Did it ever like self? Like I remember when I was a kid, summer breaks or even spring break. Like any short away time from school, I would be like, I need to change my hair, change my clothes and come back and be this person that nobody recognizes because then I'll be like a person that's worthy of love or that's this'll be the good.

me. And I remember one time when I went away for the summer to California, and I came back and I knocked on my friend's door. And I was so sure that I like look so different. And she opened the door and she's like, oh, hey, Liz. And I was like, how did you know? How did you recognize me? I can't believe it. So did you apply that same sort of like desire for change to yourself too? Or was it more external things? I think as I got into high school, like, like I said, I was pretty outgoing and sociable and had a lot of interests. When I got to high school, I switched schools. And it was kind of hard because a lot of the kids there had more money and they had nicer cars and bigger houses. And they were all kind of shiny and pretty and like new. And I kind of felt like

we didn't quite have that lifestyle. And it was something I was really self-conscious about. And yeah, I remember like going on spring break. Everybody would go to like some exotic, warm place. And my family always went skiing. So like everybody else was. would come back all tan and pretty. And I was like pasty white and like felt so ashamed of the fact that I was like going to veil like boohoo. So shame. Yeah. But yeah, I remember one year. I can't remember when maybe like sophomore year. We actually went to like St. John's or something. And I was like, I'm going to get the tannist and have like the blondeest hair. And like that was my mission. And I remember like waking up at five o'clock in the morning the morning that we went back to school. And I was.

I had a note written next to my bed that said, like, you're tan and gorgeous. Oh, my gosh. My heartbe. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I definitely felt like less than, I think, in a lot of ways. So can we talk about your first, when you sort of got introduced to alcohol is your first sort of substance, right? Yeah. So it's kind of, it's kind of funny.

Like, I remember it so clearly. And, you know, throughout high school, like, again, I had friends. And I don't think outwardly I looked like I felt any differently than anybody else. Were you, like, popular? Yes, I was popular. Like in the cool group. Yeah, I was like leader of the cool group. Yeah.

Congratulations. I know. I still hold on to that. But, I mean, you know, I point that out because, like, I don't think anybody knew. And so, like, I was holding this inside that, like, I always felt, I describe it, like, always feeling kind of a half a step off from everybody else. And like I saw everybody else and they seemed to like operate with comfort and ease. And like they knew how to like handle themselves and social situations. And I always felt like the really awkward one. It's kind of ironic though,

because I feel like people probably looked at you and thought the same thing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Completely. But I remember the first time I ever drank at a party and it was with like really popular girls from another school who were like kind of our rivals. and I was so uncomfortable. And as soon as I started drinking, it was just like Budweiser beer. It was like all of a sudden I was like on the same level as them. I felt confident. I didn't have any anxiety.

I wasn't self-conscious about myself. And I was like, like, holy shit, this is the magical elixir. Like I need this. And I drank so much that I still couldn't drive. And my dad was picking my friend and I up. And I drank so much that I peed my pants waiting outside. for my dad to come pick us up. Yep.

The next morning I was like projectile vomiting, like worst hangover ever in my kitchen sink. And I was like, this is amazing. Wow. Yeah. So. And, you know, it was pretty clear from the beginning that like it did something different for me than it did for my friends. I was always blacking out.

I was always like, I don't know. There were just so many instances as the years went on. Like I was drinking and driving all the time. It was like whereas for other people it was a want, like they wanted to go drink on the weekend. Like I had to. When do you remember the first time you like drank when you were by yourself and it wasn't, you know, a party moment? I never thought about that, but probably really early on. Like I would buy alcohol and pregame like drink a few sips in my car before I like went into a friend's house.

So it was very early on. So you and then you went to college, but just for a year? I went to Syracuse first semester. There was another thing going on at that time where I had a relationship that was very much like a drug for me. Was it abusive? It was contentious. And, you know, I think, like, looking back on it, it went on from when I was like 14 to maybe 20. So it was really kind of that developmental time in my life.

And I think it really wired my brain for a long time. and I'm still like working to kind of rewire certain areas. What do you, how do you think it wired it? Like, what beliefs do you think it instilled in you? I don't know so much that it was beliefs, but I felt like I was abandoned. And so that became like, I don't really want to get into detail about what was going on. But like, I just kind of never knew what to expect. And like things would be fine.

And then he would like disappear and like block my phone. like when I was at Syracuse where I went to school and he was still in Rhode Island. So do substances feel like almost like a stable entity in your life amongst all of that? It was a coping mechanism. I mean, I couldn't, for whatever reason, like I just didn't have the tools to self-regulate for my whole life. And it's nothing that my parents did wrong. I don't think I, you know, I think I just maybe was wired a little bit differently. I don't know. And so when I was going through these really extreme emotions and really high highs with him and really low lows, like I just, I couldn't cope with it sober. But it was interesting. So like when things were good with him, I wasn't really drinking.

And then when things were bad, I was drinking. So it was like he was also filling that void in me that I was filling with alcohol. Yeah. And I would kind of like switch back and forth between them. So when I was at Syracuse, I was miserable because he wasn't there and I was going through this kind of traumatic thing with him. And I also just could not deal with the winter. It's like brutal. Fair enough. Yeah. So I left after a semester and I, that's kind of when my drinking and drug use at that point, I was like doing cocaine and it got really bad. And not too long after that, I got my first DUI. Was that like a wake-up call? No, not at all. So my family, they knew that something was up.

I mean, they could tell, like, there were times when, I think there was one time when they got a phone call in the middle of the night that I had been found in my car like halfway across the state, like in the passenger seat, nobody in the driver's seat, no idea how I got there. I had to go to the hospital. There was a few times actually where I woke up in the hospital. And none of these things ever deterred me or even scared me. I always just thought that it was like, it was kind of like just a side effect of getting like my medicine that I needed. That's kind of how I saw it. And like the juice was worth a squeeze. Like what you got from substance was worth that.

Yeah, exactly. And so they knew that like things were not good in that regard. And so they put me into an outpatient treatment. And at the outpatient treatment, they were drug testing me. And so I was like, okay, well, I can't do cocaine. And cocaine was, I liked it because it enhanced my drinking because I could then drink without blacking out. So I was like, oh, I was just doing, I was getting the formula wrong before. Like, I need to drink and do cocaine.

And then I can drink like normal people. So you never did cocaine on its own or you didn't sort of like seek the high of cocaine. No, no. It was like a very precise amount of like I would drink first and then I would do it. don't anybody try this. Yeah, we don't need to say the exact amount. Right. And then like drink more.

And like I would find that kind of like happy place where like I felt like I was kind of holding my own. And I was like, okay, see, I don't have a drinking problem because like I'm not blacking out. And so I was in this outpatient treatment. I was getting drug tested. So at least I had the wherewithal to not do drugs. I was supposed to be taking an abuse, which is like a medicine that you take so that you

can't drink. If you drink, you get violently, violently, violently ill, even just with, like, a sip. But I was spitting it out into, like, a Coke can. And I was still drinking. They weren't, like, hit to that there? I don't, you would think they would be. I mean, they checked under my tongue. But I noticed that if I took a sip with a Coke can instead of a cup or something, they wouldn't look in the can. I know. It's like, hello. Um, that's, I think that's what they do in Coyote Ugly with the shots. Yeah. Yeah, when the customers buy them the shots that, like, spit it out into a beer. Yeah. Exactly. Learned it from Coyote Yagley?

No, I don't think I learned it from there. I don't know where I figured it out. But, I mean, it was kind of like I would do anything to be able to drink. So, like, when there's a will, there's a way, like, there was nothing standing between me and alcohol. What about, like, so you were drinking to feel, I guess, comfortable and whole in yourself. But then when you would drink, would you ever have these, like, embarrassing experiences that you'd hear about the next day and then be like, oh, this is actually taking me further from the person I want to be? Yeah, I had those all the time, which is. is why I started doing drugs because then I was able to drink as much as I wanted and not have

those embarrassing moments. And because it just, it made you feel more in control. Yeah. And like, I could, I could drink as much as I wanted and drink like other people and not black out and feel like I was sober. Okay. Yeah. So when did you move to L.A. in all of this? Okay. So I got the DUI and it was definitely not a wake-up call in any sense of the word. I kind of felt more like I was doing what all my friends were doing, but I just got busted. Were you working or like, because you're not in college at this point? I was working, I think, for a few months. I don't really even remember.

I was taking classes. So as long as I was taking classes, I was taking, like journalism and something else. So you felt like you're on a similar path with all your friends. You weren't like totally separate while your friends are in college. I was starting to like veer off and I had so much shame about that because, you know, I had goals and aspirations and I was smart and I could have gotten into like a good school. I was, I mean, Syracuse is a good school, but I knew I could get in early and I didn't want to work the second half of senior year. So I just applied early because I knew I would get in. What were your goals before?

I mean, I wanted to move to a city and like work in fashion or work in a magazine. And, you know, I never, ever in my life thought that I would be, like, back living in my hometown at 19 after, like, attempting to go to college and, like, taking random classes and kind of, like, drinking my life away. So that shame really fed the addiction. And I think that happens to a lot of people who struggle with substance abuse. And so I got really defiant and made it, like, my choice. You know, I'm like, this is my choice. I am like, I'm not conventional and I do things my way. And like that defiance and that kind of wall was my way of like dealing with the shame and

deflecting. So when I got the DUI, they said you can either go to treatment in Massachusetts or go to treatment in Florida. And this is like February in Rhode Island. So I said Florida. Yeah. And it's interesting because when I got there, you know, I was still so young. I was one of the youngest people there. but being around a lot of sober people and being exposed to like a recovery program and being able

to be my authentic self felt really, really good. You weren't like, these people are different than me. I'm like, I'm still a young, cool party one and these people have an actual problem. I definitely compared myself. You know, they say in recovery, like look for the similarities, not the differences, because everyone's bottom is different. Your bottom is where you decide that you've had enough. So for some people that's being homeless and for other people that's just because they're noticing that it's affecting their work or whatever.

So I compared myself, but I also felt like so much freedom. And I felt this. I went to rehab five times. And I felt this every time that I went to treatment. Like I felt like I could be myself. And I hadn't felt that since I was like really young. That's interesting. So what, okay, I have so many questions.

Let's go progressively. But at some point, I just want to know, like, what makes it sticky when it's not been sticky? Like, why would, if you felt that good every time, why are you washing out every time? So I felt good. But at the same time, I was completely in denial that I was an alcoholic or that I was, I just couldn't picture a life without alcohol. And, again, in recovery, not to be like quoting all these things, but they say, like, the great obsession of every alcoholic is that one day he can drink like his fellows. And that was something that really, that was my obsession. I always felt like I was just doing it wrong.

I was, I was drinking too much hard liquor or like maybe if I only drank wine or white wine. And maybe if I did X, Y, and Z, then I wouldn't be an alcoholic. So would you, like, go to rehab and then you'd come out and you would try just drinking white wine? Yeah, and that would last for like one day. And, you know, alcoholism, I believe, is a progressive terminal illness or disease. And for me, at least, every time I went to treatment and got out, I would pick back exactly where I started. So it never got better. It only ever got worse.

But, you know, I still had like the beliefs that especially when I was living in Florida and I was still like in my early 20s. I was like, okay, I just need to get the right job or I need to like be in. school doing something that I want to do or I have to have the boyfriend and I still thought like something external would make me be okay with myself and like make me not an alcoholic. So when you got out of treatment, would you try to find the job and the boyfriend and all that? Yeah. So I had like a lot of failed attempts at, I mean, I have so many college credits just from like taking random classes here and there. And I would get a job which normally wouldn't last very long because I couldn't show up usually.

And I was a relationship person, so I always had like a boyfriend for a year or two. And none of those things, obviously, ever were the solution. But, you know, and I still thought they would be. And so when I was in Florida, things came to a head. I had a really big T trauma, which was kind of like a fork in the road, I think, in my life. Which let's talk about it briefly here. So my best friend at the time was murdered and I found her. And it's at the time, I mean, talk about coping mechanisms.

Like, I don't think anybody knows how to deal with that. I don't know how like first responders. Right. And I always wonder like how first responders and police officers and people who have to see that like day in, day out, how they can function. I mean, still even talking about it. because I'm still like processing it with my therapist. Like I go into fight, flight or freeze.

And at that time, like, I froze and my- So you actually found her. Yeah. And did you have to like call the ambulance and all of that? Yeah. So she lived in a high-rise building and her boyfriend knew that something was wrong. So he asked me to go there and check on her. And he said, don't go up there alone.

Get the security guy from the lobby. So I showed up and I got the security guy and I said, I don't know, like, why he's freaking out, but I need to go check on my friend. And so he came up with me and he was in the hallway. And I went in and found her. And maybe he had called the police at that time. I don't really remember what happened, but she was still alive. I mean, she was shot through the neck and the abdomen.

And she was handcuffed and naked. And was it a drug-related thing? Drug and sex-related. Yeah. So, I mean, the whole thing was so over. overwhelming for me for a number of reasons, but the girl that I knew, like, we would party together, but she had a boyfriend who she lived with. And she was taking her LSATs to go to law school. And it turned out that she was an escort. And so she was like having sex with guys for money.

I'm assuming to pay for drugs, but she had like a good family and family money. And I just, it was this whole side of her life that I didn't know. And so to add insults, to injury, like everyone, I was living in Delray Beach at that time. And everyone was like, well, you knew and you were doing it with her. And like there were all these accusations. And then when there were articles about it in the newspaper, they didn't say that I found her, which they did on purpose. And so people were like, you're lying about finding her. Why would you fucking lie? And it was like so horrific. Also like, why is that people's instinct? Right. Like, Why is it to be like, oh, this terrible, terrible thing happened?

Like, let's find a way to be down on somebody. I don't know. I find that such a weird instinct. Yeah, I do too. And my parents were like, like, what the hell is happening? So they kind of swooped in and brought me back to Rhode Island. And they were like, you're done with Florida. Like, who are these people that you're hanging out with?

And like what? And they knew that like I wouldn't be able to function after that. Were you function? I mean, I guess I'm curious, like the day after something like that happened. do you like get up and go to the grocery store? No, no. So I was already drinking daily at that point and having a hard time with life, I guess I'll say. So after it happened, I went to stay with a friend and I just drank day in, day out, like called my family screaming in a blackout.

I mean, it was like the only thing that I could do was like blot out consciousness. Like I could not be present with like the thing that I would see every time I closed my eyes. eyes. She'd basically just drink until you fell asleep. Yeah. And so my mom flew down and she went to the funeral with me. And then after that, we flew back to Rhode Island. And I got back there.

And I was like, okay, I'm going to bury it. Like, I'm done and move on. And I went to see a trauma therapist. And I told her the story. And she just looked at me like with her jaw on the floor. And I was like, oh, like she can't even deal with us. So this is too much. And I just need to like move on.

And so I kind of... You weren't, I feel like my brain would go the other way. I'd be like, oh, this justifies why I'm having this large reaction to it. If it's such a big trauma, even the trauma therapist can't deal with it. Like, I deserve to get all the help in the world. You didn't... I wasn't there yet. I mean, I was in such denial, I think.

And at that point, like, I... That fed into the shame of, like, where my life had gone, you know? I was like, how did I go from this? Like, you were like, I put myself almost... Yeah, and like just how did I get here? I felt I just felt so shitty. And this is like we were talking earlier about how in recovery, I kind of realized that a lot of my problems arise from like being obsessed with myself and thinking about myself. That whole time, all I was thinking about was how it affected me and my life.

And like it wasn't until I got sober and I had to go testify against the guy who did it when I was 30 days sober. did I realize like wow like her whole family was there and all these people and I was like okay this is like so not about me but at the time I just had to shut it down but it wasn't like I was dealing with it in a it's so weird like I mean I just I was already a daily drinker before but that made it like 10 times worse so how old are we in this story at this point I was I want to say like 24 at that point so I was living at home. home for a couple months and I was just kind of looking for like the next escape and a girlfriend of mine lived in California and she said, why don't you come out here for a few weeks and I went

out to California and I never went back. But you didn't get better. No, no. So I moved to California. I was living in Orange County for a couple years. I was um. Fancy Orange County or like Anaheimwich County. Newport Beach. So like on the ocean I was doing some shady shit. I was basically like someone's mistress and he like paid for me to have a house and like kind of live this lifestyle that was like all a facade which fed more into the shame so at this point I was like just could not be with myself sober ever you know because I was like okay well now on top of it like I don't want to say that I was doing exactly what my friend did but like I was like this you know I'm like with this married guy and he like has me in this house with my friends and like

like I just felt like a piece of shit. You're listening to the healthier together podcast. You all know that I've been really open with you about my struggles with anxiety. I shared my whole anxiety story on my Instagram, so definitely head over there if you're like, what? Liz has anxiety? But basically, I was completely agoraphobic for a while and I still struggle with generalized anxiety disorder.

While I think there are a ton of wellness practices that can help with anxiety, I truly believe in the power of therapy. And not just because both of my parents and both of Zach's parents, are therapists, which is definitely a story for another day. The only problem, it can be super hard to find a good therapist, and then seeing said therapist can be crazy expensive. That's why I'm so excited to share BetterHelp with you. BetterHelp is an online professional counseling platform that I've been using for a few months

now. You go on their site and you answer a few questions about the state of your mental health and what you're looking for, and then they match you with a licensed professional therapist. And if you don't like that therapist, no worries, it's totally free and super easy. to change to a different one. Within 24 hours, you can be messaging that therapist, and I have been so impressed with both the quality and the timeliness of the responses that I've gotten. Beyond that, you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions, and I have to say, I was skeptical about this at first. I thought there was no way it could be as helpful as sitting in the room with an actual therapist,

but it really is. I love my therapist so much, and I also love not having to, like, lose an hour of my day to get all the way to the session and back. With therapy, consistency is so important. And being able to fit my sessions way more easily into my weekly routine has been a total game changer. It's also way cheaper than traditional therapy, like less than a third of how much you would pay here in New York City, which I absolutely love because I do not think that taking care of your mental health should be a luxury that's only afforded to people with a ton of

money. Plus, they have financial aid. So if you don't feel like you can afford it, definitely send them an email. They really want to make sure. that therapy is available to all people, which they're doing a pretty good job of because there are already 500,000 people using the service worldwide. They were kind enough to give me a code so that healthier together listeners can get 10% off of their first month of service. Just go to betterhelp.com. That's better help, the word help.com slash healthier together to get the discount. It's really easy

to sign up and you can start therapy right away, which means that you can start feeling better right away. Also, if you are struggling with mental health issues, I want you to know that you are not alone at all. So many of us are in it with you and I am in it with you. And if you're feeling lonely or anxious or depressed, know that you're not weird or damaged and you can still have an amazing, amazing life. And know that I am 100% there for you. All right. Let's get back to the episode. So how many times had you gone to rehab at that point?

point. At that point, I had gone four times, and each time, each time the rehab got like less nice. And so when I was in Orange County, that's when the Xanax use got really bad, too. So we were talking about seizures before. And I never even knew that seizures were a thing until I went to rehab. And then I was like, oh, you can have a seizure from stopping drinking. Just because you saw other people having them? I didn't see anyone else have them, but they teach you about like alcohol withdrawal. And I was like, okay, well, I know that like my body is reliant on alcohol because I drink every day. And so I was so afraid of having a seizure. So I started using a lot of Xanax.

Before you'd even had any seizures. Yes. Okay. Yes. And the two together, so benzos, which is like Xanax, Valium, Clonopin, anything in that family, and alcohol are the two withdrawals that can give you seizures. So it's kind of ironic. I was like doing it all the time.

But benzos, we talked about this on your podcast, but benzos are sometimes used to treat seizures, like seizure disorders because they sort of literally calm down the electrical firing in your brain. So that's probably what your thought process was. Right. And I would have seizures. I'm trying to remember the first time I had one. I don't really remember.

I think I was going out to dinner with a friend of mine. And I was doing Coke, too. and I think I, like, didn't take Xanax for a couple days, and then I did Coke. So when you take, like, a benz-o or alcohol, how do I explain this? It's like a, it balances your GABA and your glutamate. And then when you remove it, your glutamate, which is your, like, excitatory neurotransmitter outweighs the GABA. And that can over-excite your brain. And then a seizure can happen.

So if you add, like, a stimulant on top of that, it's just a recipe for disaster. Your brain goes into, like, overdrive. So you're going out for dinner and did you have it at the restaurant? Going out for dinner and drinks. I had one at the restaurant. Do you remember like that the, so I've had, I haven't actually talked about it, I think, on this podcast, but I've had two seizures in my life. We talk about it on your podcast a little bit more.

And they were both substance induced. And I remember the biggest memory I have is that sheer terror when you wake up because you have no sense of place. You have no, I think unlike fainting, you just literally have no understanding of where you are or when you are and it takes a while for all of that to turn back on. And it's, it was the scariest feeling of my life. So do you remember that? Yeah. So I remember coming to back at my apartment and not really knowing how I got there and being alone. And I just drank. And I drank. Yeah. Wait, your friend left you. Somebody brought you back to your apartment that

just left you. Yeah. And that happened. Well, you needed better friends. After time, after time. And my answer was to drink the fear away. Oh, my God. The only seizure that I really remember having was when I, so I told you that each treatment center got like less nice. So when I was living there and I was starting to have seizures, I was like, okay, I need to go to detox. And I had like kind of a moment of panic, not because I was ready to get sober, but because I was afraid of having seizures. So I went to a detox and they put me on bowel.

volume to detox the Xanax. Is that common practice? It's common practice. I think they put you on a benzo that has a longer half-life. So like valium would last, I don't remember exactly. It's been a while since I took pharmacology, but you could take less volume and it would last longer than taking like a larger amount of Xanax. But like, I think it was maybe eight days in.

I was like, well, they're not going to let me go from this detox until. I'm not taking any prescription medication or any benzos. So I started refusing it. And that was my one sober seizure that I had. And I remember sitting there. They were having an AA meeting in this living room. And I remember sitting there. And all of a sudden, I felt kind of disoriented.

And I remember, like, looking at the ceiling and my sense of, like, depth perception was off. And then I don't, and I guess I fell off the couch. And then I came to. And I still get anxiety thinking about it. And there have been times in sobriety where I'm like, I know I'm not going to have a seizure, but I'll have that depth perception thing. And I'm like, oh my God, it's happening again.

I have so much. It took me years to even call it this, but I have so much PTSD for my seizures, which is why I was so, where like that, where you'll have like that one moment where you stand up in or lightheaded or you'll have like a weird depth. I had it like watching a TV show the other night. And I just like had that weird sort of flash. and my brain goes to like gnarly. It's why I still, I never had substance abuse issues, but I still can't like get high from

weed because a lot of the feelings of being high fuck with me in that way. So I do you have PTSD? Would you call it that from that? Maybe. And maybe I just haven't really grappled with it yet. I think when I did finally get sober. I felt like to compensate for all the years of like being just a hot mess, I had to be like perfect. And so I feel like I kind of brushed a lot under the rug.

And what happened was a few years into my sobriety, I started having a lot of physical health problems. And while on the one hand, I think it was kind of a delayed effect of like trashing my body with drugs and alcohol for so many years. But I also think that there are emotional things and trapped trauma and all. all this stuff that I haven't dealt with yet, kind of manifesting itself in my body and like trying to get out. So why did you ultimately get sober? So by the end, I'll just give a snapshot of what it was like, because it wasn't really my decision. I got to the point where I was drinking from the morning until night. I was having seizures. My boyfriend at the time. How often were have seizures. Probably a few times a week, I want to say. My boyfriend, who I was living with at the time,

moved out because he was like, this ship is sinking and like, I can't help you. I can't be part of this. So he took all the furniture and everything. I was living. I had like a bed. I was living in squalor. I couldn't leave my apartment because I was so petrified of having a seizure in public. So for like, that's where like all of my agoraphobia came from when I had it. Yeah. So for. Yeah. So for From January till when I got sober, which was February 22nd, 2014, I was pretty much in a blackout. I had a neighbor at the time who was a drug dealer, and he was kind of supplying me with alcohol and cocaine in the beginning. And then he started switching it to meth, which I didn't know. But when my family finally flew out, they found my apartment with like meth all over it and just it was like a drug den.

And he was, you know, taking advantage of me. And so more trauma, right? So what happened was my family did a wellness call. So they called the West Hollywood police to go check on me because at that point I had like no communication with anybody. And they saw me through the window face down in my apartment. My dog was like licking me. Just so sad.

And they broke through my window and took me to the hospital. And somehow I got out of the hospital myself and went back to doing what I was doing. And what I was doing was, I mean, at that point, I was like snorting dust off the floor because I was so just gone. Yeah. So I would like drink, snort whatever I could have a seizure, pass out, come to. You're having seizures like by yourself in the apartment too, which is quite dangerous. Yeah. And so what happened was my family flew out.

They showed up at my doorstep and I dropped and had another grandma seizure for like two minutes right in front of them. And they said that I flew across the room. I started at the doorway and then I like launched myself. And that was it. And when I look back on it now, I'm like, I was struck sober in that moment because I couldn't lie to anybody anymore. I couldn't diminish how bad my drug and alcohol use was. There was no denying it. And at that point, like I did, I didn't want to be living the way I was living.

And when people say like addiction and alcoholism is a choice or like a moral thing, like, I don't think anybody chooses to do that. It was a primal need, you know? It's like the reward center of my brain was overriding the prefrontal cortex where it's, like, I knew rationally, like, this is really bad and I need to stop, but I just couldn't. It was like, it was more important to me than food or anything. So I was kind of struck sober in that moment. I went to the hospital.

I was there for like four or five days being stabilized from seizures. and it's like I don't even know how I don't have like major brain damage from all of that. Yeah, I was actually thinking. Yeah. But you don't feel like you sort of lost any cognitive ability? Not that I can really, no. So did you're losing my words? Not that I can with that word.

So you did you have to, you stayed in the hospital for five days, but did you have to go to another rehab to sort of? Yeah. So I went to rehab. I remember I was so foggy. I mean, I barely remember like the first, I would say maybe like 30, 60 days of being sober. But my family hired somebody to help with like the whole treatment process. And they were like, you can go to promises in Malibu. And I knew enough to know that like I couldn't be in L.A.

And they were like, so they presented me with a few options. Another place was a place that I had already been. And so I was like, no. So I picked a place in Utah, I think, because like, Lindsey Lohan went there in the Allsense. That was my thinking at the time. So I went to treatment for 90 days and then I went to more treatment after that for another 90 days. And that was where like I really got my foundation in recovery. It was the thing that was the last thing I wanted to do. I was so angry at everybody because I was the president of my rehab in Utah, Circlodge. And I was like

the model patient because I'm a people pleaser. and I'm very compliant by nature. And somebody was smart enough to see through my bullshit and be like, yeah, you need more because you have so much shit that you haven't dealt with. And so I went to an all women's program, not fancy or anything in Orange County, like down the street from where I was living when I was like living the high life. And that was my first lesson in humility because I was like I was picked up in the white rehab van. and all my friends were still there from before. And so it was very humbling. And it was kind of, it was a surrender where I realized, okay, doing it my way is not working.

I ran my life into the ground. So maybe I need to take suggestions and try doing it another way. So I'm always so curious, it feels almost unfair because you have this awakening and you go to rehab. and then you're like, okay, I'm going to be sober. But then you're still what? You're like, how old were you? 28. So like 28 and you like don't have a job.

And you've spent the last like 10 years getting really high. And like how do you begin to put the rest of the pieces of your life back together from there? I was really fortunate because my family, even though they had gone through this so many times, they were so supportive of me. and they hired the help of a company who works with the family and the afflicted person for a minimum of 18 months. So they help guide the recovery process. Oh, that's cool. So the heavy lifting and the hard decisions weren't on my parents' shoulders anymore. So that was really helpful because the team that I worked with kind of like maps out a blueprint for my recovery.

So I had the 90 days of inpatient, then the 90 days of like a step down. And then I was in sober living for six months. And when I was in sober living, I had this safety net underneath me. And I had the freedom to go get what I call a get well job. So I went and I worked at a little boutique in Santa Monica. So is that just supposed to be like a low pressure? Yeah, like no stress, not crazy hours or anything. So I was able to get out into the recovery community and build a solid foundation there and meet other women and people my age.

And that's really like, that's really what helped me build a foundation in recovery was like community. And then you met your husband in recovery, didn't you? Is that, is being sober like a big part of your relationship? Yeah. I mean, it's not everything, but it's definitely, I would say our relationship is kind of like founded on the principles of recovery. And it's something that we get to relate with each other on and living a spiritual life is like really, it's something really beautiful to share. Isn't it hard? Like I want to tackle. I think there's a lot of people listening who maybe don't want to be sober, but they're they're curious about drinking less. I think the big fear with that, I think I said this on your podcast, is that drinking helps one lose their inhibitions. It does help people feel more comfortable in themselves, even if it's

just for this fleeting moment. Is it hard to date? Like when you're on your first dates, is it hard to not feel awkward without that lubrication? I mean, I think, yes, it's a great It's social lubricant. So suddenly having that removed can be kind of scary. Yeah. But I didn't really find it to be too difficult. The thing that I found to be hard was, and this is probably just the kind of guys that I was dating, like that I was meeting on apps. But dating in your early 30s or late 20s being sober, I think guys didn't want to commit to somebody who didn't drink because it's just part of their life.

lifestyle. And I think people have this misconception that like just because someone doesn't drink, like they don't know how to have fun or they can't drink around them. So people kind of walk on eggshells around sober people. And so I found that to be kind of difficult. Does it bother you at all when people drink around you? No, not at all. It bothers me more if people don't. Really? So yeah. So I was really lucky like in that moment when I was like I say struck sober. And from the work that I did after, like I was, they say in recovery again, like you're placed in a position of neutrality where like you don't notice it. So you're not appalled by it and you're also not drawn to it. So I remember the first time I noticed that I had kind of achieved that was when I was about a year sober and I had to go to Vegas with my boss at the time.

And I had done so much damage in Vegas as I'm sure a lot of us have. And I was like, okay, well, this is going to be like a big test going into this environment and having to work and it's kind of uncomfortable. And I did not even notice. So, yeah, it's if anybody has any sober people in their life out there, I mean, it's different for everybody. But we have alcohol in our house. I have alcohol here. You know, if people come over and want to drink or if we're out, it makes me feel more self-conscious. if people are like, no, no, I don't want to just because we're sober.

Do you feel like you can become uninhibited without it? Like, you started drinking to fill this hole and to make yourself feel comfortable in all these situations. Without that as a tool, how do you fill the hole and how do you feel comfortable? It's an ongoing journey. So we were talking earlier about like anxiety and, you know, I don't really, I think, find that I can be pretty uninhibited in social situations. People always ask me if like going to award shows and being on red carpets and all of that is intimidating. And I find all of that really fun.

That doesn't bother me. It's more of when I'm in like one-on-one situations where I feel like there's a focus on me, I guess, I would say, which is ironic that my job is like putting myself. It depends on the person. But yeah, sometimes. Am I making you feel comfortable? I mean, I'm so anxious right now. No. How do you feel the hole and how do you feel uninhibited and how do you feel comfortable without this? Like it's even for people to have a problem and I think it's such a go-to, go-to tool in society today. Well, something that I try to remember is that as much as I think people are thinking about me, they're thinking about themselves.

So I try to remember like there isn't this giant spotlight on me. And interesting. Yeah. And I'm not that important. And like, I think feeling like uninhibited comes from not worrying about people's judgment of you, right? And like, if you can just remember, people are going to judge no matter what. You can't please everybody and you can't make everybody like you. And so there are things that I try to remember.

But then there are practices like meditation has made me way more calm and just comfortable with myself. And so that's really helped me. And then when I go to a situation, if I can shift my mindset from making it all about me and what can I bring to this situation, then I'm way more likely to be uninhibited and not have that anxiety. So I don't have social anxiety really. Like I'm a very like out there person.

I don't really get embarrassed. But the thing I do get nervous about is like adding value to a situation. Like I was just in a trip to Colorado and I got sick. And I remember talking to my husband. I was with one of my best friends. And I was still like I'm worried that she's not going to feel like she had a good trip because I couldn't be fun because I'm sick. I just, I feel like for me to be worth it for me to be there, I need to be contributing something.

And I feel like sometimes alcohol loosens me up. So I feel like I can be funny and I can be entertaining. I can be all the things I feel like I need to be. Do you feel like that at all? I need to think about that one. Well, I'm particularly curious, especially in late. Your husband is not only, he's like famous, but he's also really successful. Like he's at sort of the top of his game.

And I imagine when you're going to parties and hanging out, people are interested in talking to him. And do you feel like you need to, like, that would press all of my insecurity buttons, I feel like. Yeah, in the beginning, it was stressful. Also because I think people just meet me and they have an idea in their head of what I am and I'm just the trophy wife. They're like, oh, he got himself a hot young blonde. Exactly. The thing about him is that, like, he's so smart. And I mean, he's the smartest person I've ever met.

He has so many good qualities. And he's, so why would he be with somebody who's just, like, doesn't bring anything to the table? He is, his breadth of knowledge is just astonishing because he's so curious. And he, I mean, he'll read a book a week, maybe more. We were talking earlier about how he reads every free moment that he gets, whereas a lot of us will just pick up our phone and mindlessly scroll. So did you feel like you needed to like prove you weren't just this dumb blonde bimbo when you would like go to parties with him? In the beginning, I felt like I would go in automatically with a resentment against the people there. because a lot of times I would go and they wouldn't ask me anything about myself.

And I just kind of had to let go of that going back to what I said before. It's kind of like what other people think of me is none of my business. People are going to think what they're going to think. And I can't really do much to change that anyway. But, you know, I think despite everything that I went through and all of the reasons that I drank and all of that, I think at the core, I have always felt like I do bring. something to the table. And I am interesting and I am worth being there. So do you know, you just felt like you've had that since you were a kid. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. But it's still something I struggle with. And like, of course, like I always struggle with imposter

syndrome. But it's like a daily practice, right? I mean, I do affirmations. I journal affirmations. I constantly remind myself. Are there ones that are like, powerful affirmations for you that have been really helpful? They'll be different every day. So there are ones that are kind of recurring are I'm worthy and that can apply to a lot of different situations. I'm doing great because so many of us feel like we're not doing enough. And the reality is most of us are and we're doing better than enough.

Yeah. And, you know, I try to step back and look at big picture. Like, where my life was just six years ago, it's not that long. So when I get really caught up in the minutia and like what people think of me and what am I bringing to the table and am I good at my job and all these different things. Yeah, I'm like, wait a second. I'm not, yeah, exactly. Like I'm not doing math and having a seizure and like face planting. So today's a good day.

All right. I have so many other questions about that, but we have limited time. So I would like to move on to your sort of health journey since then. You've been sort of open about hormone and gut issues. So can you talk to us a little bit about the state of your health coming out of that world and then when you started having other health problems? Yeah. So things were pretty good for a couple years. I think it took a while for my body to really recover and for me to be a team. with it. So I think that's partially why I didn't notice that things were kind of a miss until a couple years into sobriety. But when they became a miss, it was very obvious. I had really, really extreme bloating, really bad digestive issues where, I mean, I just couldn't digest anything. It was just running right through me. And I had always had irregular periods. And so I kind of had these two separate issues going on. I had PCOS and then I had these gut issues. And I didn't know anything about like functional medicine or wellness or root causes or anything

like that. So when I was having gut issues, I just went right to the gastroenterologist and tried all different antibiotics. And we were like, okay, it's CBO without doing a test and like take these antibiotics. Oh, it didn't work that time. Okay, take them again. Oh, my gosh. I must have taken at least, and this is, I'm sure it's twice this, six rounds of like xifaxin and the, and the other one. I can't remember. Neomycin, maybe. One after another, after another, after another. So if your gut wasn't bad before. Yes. No probatoid, nothing to support the good bacteria and the doctor, who I adore, I think he's just, his skill set is in more like... Surgery.

Yes, exactly. And that's what doctors are trained in. Yeah. Yeah. He said, okay, you're going to take these and they're like a nuclear bomb for your stomach. So it's going to get rid of all. And I was like, oh, okay. So that just made things 10 times worse.

And finally I got to the point where like he had diagnosed me with lymphocytic colitis. And he put me on a steroid for it. And it got rid of the acute cystic. symptoms. So all of a sudden, I had my life back after a year. So, like, I wasn't running to the bathroom every half hour. I could drive places. I could work. So I was like, oh, okay, I found my solution. And it was a hardcore steroid that you're supposed to be on for like two or three weeks max. And I was on it for two and a half years. So just adding another layer to the issues. And what happened was it was still working for the acute symptoms.

I don't know why I'm having trouble with that word today. But I was getting really bad brain fog, really bad fatigue, nausea. I was taking like eight Zophran a day just to be able to function and eat. So I went to see a functional nutritionist. How did you even hear about functional medicine? He had worked with the person who helped me get sober. So the guy who helped me get sober was telling me for like two years. You have to go see this guy, Rob Yang, and I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine.

But I'm the kind of person where things have to get extremely bad in order for me to be willing to make a change in my lifestyle. Ie. your entire substance abuse story. Exactly. Yeah. So I went to see him and we did some tests and he found that I had bacterial overgrowth and yeast and a parasite. and I had a few different food sensitivities. So after dealing with these issues for like over two years, I eliminated some of the common irritants like gluten and dairy for me and sugar and soy.

And I took some herbal supplements and within a couple weeks, I was like 90% better. How is your gut health today? So I'm going through a flare up. I don't know exactly what's going on. I have bacterial overgrowth. I don't know if it's necessarily SIBO. I'm not exactly sure yet. So it's been a little bit off. But the way that I deal with it now is completely different from how I dealt with it then. So a couple years ago when I started healing my gut, I was very rigid. And I still believe that there are certain cases where you have to do that. And you have to give yourself a chance to heal and get rid of the pathogens. But that rigidity also caused my body, I think, to hold on to a lot of stress. And that kind of perpetuated other issues and affects the hormones and all of that. So I've really kind of gotten to a place where I'm like way more laid back about it, whether that's good or bad.

I'm not, we'll find out. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm having a flare up now. It doesn't really scare me like big picture because I've gotten through it before. I know that I can get through it again. It's just about finding the right protocol. And with your hormones? My hormones are still all over the place. So when I did heal my gut initially, I had been getting my period maybe like every six

months. And I think that was also a result of not eating ever when I was using drugs and alcohol and the drugs and alcohol. So I kind of was able to be patient with my body and I knew it would take a while. when I found out that I had the gut issues, when your body is fighting pathogens 24-7, that cortisol is going to affect your reproductive hormones. And so I found that when I got rid of the pathogens, my gut health was good. My period started becoming normal.

So the diagnosis of PCOS, again, not sure if that was accurate or if there, it was just. Because that's a symptom-based diagnosis, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I had cystic. ovaries, but I think I was told that like we can all have cystic ovaries and it's not necessarily PCOS. So because my hormones, I didn't have any of the markers. It was just the irregular period and the cystic ovaries.

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Speaking of hormones, you don't want to have kids, right? Not at the moment, no. I've changed my answer from like never to not at the moment. It's like I was kind of hoping you were never because it's my number one question, both that people ask me and also that I ask myself is whether I want to have kids. And I love meeting people who are very firm in their beliefs either way because I want them to like persuade me. Okay.

Well, I'm very firm in my belief that I don't want them. but I also realize that I might change my mind someday. Why do you know you don't want them right now? There are a few reasons. So I feel like, I mean, for one, I like my independence. I can't imagine living in a world where I have that responsibility. And, you know, I love having the freedom of being able to travel with my husband and pick up and go back and forth to New York. And my life is very, like, I'm fortunate that my life is kind of how I want it.

And I just can't imagine that. Also, I just don't have that maternal thing. I don't think. I like other people's kids. Yeah. Sometimes. Well, and you're maternal with your dog. Oh, yeah.

My dog is like my baby. I mean, I don't feel like there's anything missing in my life. I don't. I just feel like I'm just lacking that thing. And I can't really even name what it is. some people just know they want kids so badly and they want to be a mom so badly. I wish I had that because I feel like that's almost easier. Like you're just like, oh, you know.

But I also think it's interesting. I don't know, honest, I don't remember whether we talked about it on here or on the episode we taped for you. But we were talking about how much it changes your life to start to look, to put your attention into something that's not yourself and to really care about something deeply that's not yourself. And I think for a lot of people that having kids does that. And it's like a huge boon of having kids that it forces you to not be selfish anymore.

And that's something that I'm interested in. Yeah. I think with anxiety, I believe, is inherently a pretty narcissistic disorder. Because it's you're living only in a past you've constructed in your own brain and a future you've constructed in your own brain. and it literally doesn't interact with the actual world, really. It's something that you've constructed. So it's inherently just focused on you and your feelings and your perception of the world. And I'm always like, would my anxiety get way better if I had to be taken out of my brain?

It's so funny that you make that observation because I do get this like a little bit of envy when I see mothers with their children and how they change. Like I know people who have had kids and how they change after because all of a sense. sudden it's not about them anymore and it's about their kid and they seem to move through the world even though they have their responsibility much more freely. And I've been like, wow, that's, I mean, but it's not a reason enough for me to have it. I envy that so much though. I'm so, yeah, I'm just curious. I wish like I'd have a fairy godmother come and be like, you'll regret this choice more or you'll regret this choice more. I think the thing with me where I don't want to completely shut the door on it is I've noticed lately that I kind of skipped over

my 20s, right? Because I was, I just partied them away. I was like kind of in a blackout. Yeah. I think I stunted myself. And people say like when you get sober, you're emotionally, you're the age when you started drinking, which I don't believe. I don't think I'm 18. Yeah. I mean. Well, you've been sober a few years now, right? Six years. Almost six years. Maybe 24. Yeah. You're good. Okay. Actually, I'll take it.

So in a sense, I feel like I'm kind of living out my 20s, but in my 30s. So that makes me wonder if then in my 40s, I'm going to decide. That said, you know, my husband has two grown kids and he's not necessarily in any position to want. No, no. I think maybe if it was like a deal breaker for me. But, you know, another thing that I have to consider not to get morbid, but like he is twice my age. And maybe I'll be at a point. How old is he? He's in his 60s.

Okay. Well, I ask with my husband's dad was 55 when my husband was born. And he's older now. He's in his 90s now, which is definitely different to be a grown. And it affected my husband's life. But in some ways, I even think it affected his life in a positive way to have an older father. Yeah, and I've seen it the other way around. I know people who have had kids in their 60s, and it's like re-energizes them.

Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, I think it can go both ways for sure, and there's definitely downsides to it with Zach, but there's definitely a lot of upsides as well. So I think that's interesting. Okay. Last thing I really want to talk about before we get into my fun questions, I ask everybody, is you're very open about like fillers and threading and like sort of like having work done, which I'm so fascinating.

by first of all how do you think that that interacts with like the notions of wellness of like I need to only put organic stuff in my body and stuff like that how do you frame those side by side um I kind of compartmentalize them and it's like it's more of like an unwillingness to give it up so um I mean there's like the argument where people are like well how can you preach all of this stuff and self-love and then change things about yourself um But as far as the like putting toxins into your body and all of that, I just, I like it too much. I really like, I feel like if there was an organic Botax, like I would have done it 20 years ago. Not, I mean, hopefully not 20 years.

But like I, you know, I would like my forehead to not have wrinkles and stuff like that. But I'm just so freaked out by putting the stuff in my body that I haven't done it yet. Yeah. I mean, so I had this moment when I got sober and I saw a photo of myself and I had like deep, deep lines. my forehead and around my eyes. And I was in my 20s. I was young. But it was years of smoking a pack a day and all the drugs and alcohol and baking myself in the sun, living in Florida. So for me, I was like, okay, I just, like, it was almost like, somebody phrased it recently. And I can't, it was like reinventing myself, like the new sober me, like leave the old me behind. You wanted to like look

as fresh and different on the outside as you felt. I mean, I wanted the outside. I mean, I wanted the outside to reflect the inside. And like I was looking at myself in the mirror and I was like, this is like a haggard person who's been like dragged through the mud, you know, and it just didn't, I'm sure I'm making it more dramatic than it really was. I was still, you know, youthful. But do you feel pretty? Mm-hmm. And do you feel pretty without like how does that interact with your conception of how pretty you are? How to, do you feel like this stuff makes you feel prettier? Do you feel like you'd feel pretty without it? Well, I don't even know what I would look like without it. What do you, roughly, what do you have going on? Oh my God. Just like roughly. Okay. So I'll show you a before

picture too because it sounds like so much. But then you look at me and you're like, oh, there's such like minor little tweaks. Maybe. Can we post the before picture? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we'll post it so everybody can see it. So I got my nose done a couple years ago. go. I got a lip lift at the same time. Is that like a permanent surgical? Okay. So what had happened when I got sober was I went extreme. So I was like Botox and I got so much filler. Filler in my lips. I was trying to get a certain shape that like my lips just were not that shape. And so my face looked really like full and heavy and kind of older than I was. Yeah. And I think that's a mistake. A lot of LA. A lot of people do that. Yeah. So I went to this doctor, Dr. Talley, who's like young and innovative.

And he was like, okay, no, we need to get rid of all of this and just do more like simple refinements to get like what I was going for. Did you need a nose job because of the cocaine? I had wanted a nose job since I was like 10 years old. Okay. So you hadn't like made it. So I had a friend just like caved in because it's low. No, I definitely. I had a deviated symptom, which I'm sure was from that.

But so I did the nose and the lip at the same time. And then nobody knows this because nobody noticed. But in April, I got a browlift and an upper blephaloplasty, which – Upper – Blufferoplasti. So it's when they cut the excess skin off your eyelids. So I had – and whenever I tell people this, they think I'm crazy. But I had an insecurity about it. So my eyes were really hooded.

So people were asking me like, are you – you're so tired. And like, are you okay? Which is also – can I just say the rudest thing for a person to say to somebody. I'm like, no asshole. Except for 10 hours last night. Like if you, it's like asking somebody who has like a tiny bit of a belly if they're pregnant and you're just like, you don't let them tell you. Yeah. So I just, it was just another thing.

I think part of it too is like once you notice how easily you can change something, then you're like, oh, or at least I was like, okay, well, this is no big deal. My husband hates it. That's, I was going to ask that because I feel like Zach is not even down with the idea of me doing like Botox or filler. Although I do feel like if I just went and did it and I came home and I looked like. prettier, he would be like, oh, you look pretty. Like he wouldn't. Yeah. But he hates the idea that I would need something external to change my looks and that I wouldn't think I was hot enough without it. Right. But is so your husband's the same or is he like? He was traumatized by the nose job because he. You were already with him by the time you got it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. People asked me like, was he with you before. I'm like,

yeah. I wasn't like. He didn't understand it. He was like, I fell in love with you like this. I don't want you to change. But it was something like really deep rooted in me, I think, because my whole life I had been insecure about my nose and I just felt like I was fulfilled in so many other ways and I still wanted it. So I actually like the idea that you already had your dream partner and you were doing it for you. Yeah. I think that's nice. Okay. What else do you have? Okay. So, so yeah, so I did the brow lift, which again, like with my husband, so he didn't want me to do it. And I was like, if I went away for a week and came back, you wouldn't even know that I did anything. So don't get on your high horse about this.

And nobody really on Instagram, the only thing it just made my eyes like a little more, they're just not hooded anymore. Okay. So it was a very minor thing. Other than that, that's it. I do like lasers. Oh, I did threads. Yeah.

So that's where they pull your skin up? Yeah. It's so subtle though. I'm just, I'll try anything. I listen to your 72 questions episode and you were like, I can't laugh. Yeah. You know, I don't want to like encourage anybody, but. I think surgery is so much easier than the threads because the threads are internal sutures that kind of have barbs on them.

So they put them in through your temple and then they, I know, they suspend around your mouth and they lift it and the barbs kind of keep it lifted. But it's fractions of like a millimeter. It's so subtle. It's like the goal of it. It just makes your face look liftier. So it can lift it a little bit again, such a fraction that people probably wouldn't even notice. We compared my before and after and like I couldn't even notice. But what happens is it creates kind of like internal damage.

So your body, it stimulates collagen. So the whole idea is that the sutures dissolve and then you have collagen there where they were. So it's a more like kind of permanent lift than filler, but it's not so invasive as surgery. And then do you do filler or Botax or anything like that? I haven't done filler in a long time. I mean, I like it, but I just don't have anywhere. Whatever. Yeah. And yeah, I do Botox like maintenance a couple times here. And do you feel like do people at Instagram come at you for that stuff ever since you are sort of like, I know you don't like the word influence, but you're a wellness public figure?

Surprisingly, I can't remember ever getting, I mean, I'm sure I have. But no, I haven't really gotten any backlash against that stuff. People will troll me for like I posted my 93 year old grandmother. And I don't know. know if you saw my stories last night. She looks amazing. And so I was talking about her and like her her secrets to longevity. And people were like, yeah, or not working a day in her life. And I'm like, are you kidding me? But yeah, with the with the vanity stuff, I mean, I haven't really gotten any negative comments. I also think that people are really curious. Like I'm, Botox, I think is so interesting because I know so many wellness world like celebrities. And I'm shocked constantly at how many of them do it. And I feel like it's like the dirty little secret of the wellness world. And I think people are interested because so many people are doing it,

but nobody's talking about it. And I think it's very cool that you're like, yeah, this is what I'm doing. Yeah. I think you're spot on. I think people are more curious than anything else. And when people get like really judgy about it, I think it comes from a place of like maybe they want to do it when they just, I don't know. But do you feel like your hottest self right now? Oh yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Like you feel banging when you go out.

I mean, you look really pretty. Thank you. My guess is when I see this photo, I'll be like, oh, you looked really pretty before. Yeah. No, I was really pretty before too. All right. I just, no, and I don't mean that in like a conceited way. It was just, I don't know where I was going with that.

Just like you don't think the reason you did it was to make you have self-esteem after not having self-esteem. No, no, not at all. And that's, and when I do talk about it, I, I, I, I, hope that I'm really clear that like I was already really fulfilled in my life and like I wasn't trying to fix something that I felt like was broken on the inside. And I think when people come from that place, more power to them, you know. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think that's important. And the other thing is we're inundated with like these images of perfection and everything on social media and all these young girls who generation Z look up to and they've all had so many surgeries

and nobody talks about it. And these girls get on their high horse and defend them and are like, no, it's puberty. And so I'm trying to kind of like, I don't know, smash the stigma a little bit. You have front road all that in Hollywood too. Like there's so many people who we wouldn't think have had stuff done because you can have stuff done so subtly now. and so many of them have, which I think is, I'm totally fun with doing it. I just really am a big fan of talking about it because otherwise you're creating such unrealistic expectations. All right.

I feel like I have a zillion more questions, but I think people are going to come fix. She has a roof leak. So first up, have you ever been somewhere in the world and been like the people here really got it right in terms of health and happiness? And if so, where was it? I would say Vietnam. Why? Even though my husband and I did a trip where we started in Hanoi and then we went all the way south to Saigon or Ho Chi Minh City.

And we were biking around everywhere and we were biking through the countryside where people are so poor. I mean, absolute poverty, but they have community. And they were so happy. And I think, you know, we were, I don't remember if it was my podcast or yours. I think it was mine, so go listen. where we were talking about the importance of community and being active. You know, they walk and they, even people in the cities. And we also kind of saw that in Africa a little bit too.

What part of Africa we were in Kenya and South Africa last year and we visited the Maasai village. And again, they had community. And our tour guide, somebody, I took a picture of like their huts because they live with, you know, again, kind of poverty level. They live in tiny huts and they really don't have anything, no electricity, obviously. And people accused me of like highlighting like poverty tourism. And I was like, no, I'm just trying to, you know, show the way they live. And our tour guide, in fact, was someone who had grown up in a Maasai village, went to college in Nairobi, I think, and had lived in the city and everything. And he still wanted to go back there because of the community. And, you know, he said for a lot of

them, it's a choice. So that's their culture. That was something. I think we talked about this on your podcast, but we're talking about the bell curve of like having money and happiness and how people at the, who have a ton of money often aren't happy because they feel like they should be happy and they're not still. But a huge other thing of having a lot of money is often it tends to isolate you from community because you can live in a big house by yourself and you there's just all of these ways that having less money forces you to interact with other people. And so I think it further creates that loneliness. Yeah. And I don't want to like assume that they're all really happy with their circumstances. But like I think just that community is something that we lack so much here.

Do you feel like you have a good like did you have to rebuild all your friendships after being sober? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like you were able to do that at the point? Totally, because the recovery community in L.A. and in New York is massive. And so pretty much all my friends are from recovery and then through work, you know, even just through having the podcast. I think being like a quote unquote influencer can be really isolating because you're primarily working behind your phone. By yourself. Yeah, exactly. But the podcast. has been a great way of like meeting people in real life and forming connections that way. Yeah, I'm so insistent. I think you did get better interviews in real life, but I also just like, I enjoy not having to be sitting in my house all day. I think it's a really fun thing to do.

Okay, do you feel successful? Yes. And why? What does success sort of mean to you? That's a good question. I feel successful, I think, because I turned a passion into kind of a purpose. So what is that passion? Well, I kind of took a few things and and turned it into the career, I guess, that I have now. So like helping people, I always wanted that to be my primary purpose. When I got sober, I went back to school for counseling. So I was doing substance abuse counseling for a few years. And I had this Instagram account on the side as a hobby and I never knew that it could be a job.

And, you know, I think as long as I keep that purpose, like helping other people through, like, wellness and helping people maybe feel less alone with their issues because I know, like, when I had gut issues and I felt so lonely and so ashamed, like, I couldn't talk to anybody about it. And just kind of bringing things to light and having a space where people can have conversations. Like, I'm always in the comments and in DMs because that's why I enjoy. having this platform is to have connections with other people and have conversations that maybe people don't feel comfortable having like in their real life conversations. And with the podcast. And so I feel like I'm successful because I've been able to do that and kind of shape and mold a career. And I feel like I'm just getting started. Like I have no clue where it's going to go. Do you like that feeling or does that scare you? I love it. Yeah. I'm learning to like it.

Yeah, I'm not, I think if I had, I have enough evidence over the past six years that like my narrow conception of what I want and what is going to happen, I mean, is just that it's so narrow. And the things that actually can happen when I kind of align myself with my purpose and are so much bigger than I could ever imagine. I love that. What is the best way to spend 20 minutes every day in the name of healthy or happiness? Meditating. Yeah. Avid meditator over here. Do you ever miss it a day? I missed a day earlier this week and I felt like totally off. If you were going to try to persuade somebody to meditate who hadn't meditated, can you say like very specifically like what benefits you felt from it? I mean, I would say it it almost instantly eradicated a lot of my anxiety. It just is kind of like 20 minutes. minutes a day, but whatever anybody can do and you can start with two minutes or five minutes. I mean, whatever 20 minutes is daunting. So I don't want them. I don't want that losing my mind right now to deter anybody. So it's whatever you can do. But it's kind of like just like wrapping myself in a warm blanket. Like it just kind of settles me and grounds me and it clears my mind. It just just so much. I couldn't even like condense it into just a few words. What is one thing that you've

bought that made you healthier or happier? Ooh, I need to think about that. There's so many. You can like rattle off a few. Um, okay. So I think the most recent thing that I've bought that really made an impact was my five minute journal. I don't know if you've seen it before. Yeah, I have one. Okay. So yeah, it's really helped me kind of get in the house. habit of not picking up my phone first thing in the morning or being on it when I go to bed because you just you do three things that you're grateful for, three things that you, that would make the day great, um, an affirmation. So you do that in the morning and then at night you do three amazing things that happened and one thing that maybe you could have done

better. Do you always, I like it. I'm always like what I never feel like I have three, like some days I have three amazing things that happen. But other days I feel like I'm looking for it. That's the hardest part. And I think that's why it's been so beneficial to me because I can I can just kind of like go through the day on autopilot and not be feeling present or feel gratitude. And so when I have to sit there and think about three amazing things. And it's funny because I ask my husband, I'm like, what are three amazing things? And he's like amazing. Like it's so hard to think.

But it also, I guess it makes you think like, oh, it was amazing that like there's this gorgeous foliage out of the window. Yeah. And it really makes you thank. And a lot of times I'm grateful. I'll be like, oh, wow. Like, I felt gratitude this afternoon. Like, that's amazing that I was able to feel that or just anything. I think gratitude really, really is a muscle.

And you need to work it. And once you work it, you feel it more presently all the time. Yeah. Okay, last one. What is one big mistake you've made and one thing you really got right? And do the mistake first. So we can end in a positive. It's hard for me to, like, isolate.

one mistake because I am able to look back and see how all of my mistakes were kind of moments of growth and moments where I've learned something. So that's kind of the cheesy answer. But I don't- Would you not take back that 10-year period? Never. Really? Never. Yeah. It's actually probably the thing that I'm the most grateful for. I'm not grateful for some of the things that happened, obviously, like the traumas and the things that were done to me and that I saw done to other people. But it made me who I am today and it gave me a perspective on life that I think other people don't have. And yeah, so I feel really fortunate that I went through that. I'm like trying to get there so much because I did have my seizures because of this like partying

period of my life. And often I'll be like, oh, if I hadn't gone through that partying period, I wouldn't have had these seizures and then I wouldn't have had all of this anxiety that I felt like really limited my life in the long run. Yeah, but if you look back on that time of anxiety and being kind of confined to your bed and agoraphobic, you said that that was when you started like getting into wellness. And so, I mean, it sounds like it kind of changed the trajectory of your life a little bit. Yeah, okay. Working on it. What is one thing that you really got right? I would say getting sober because, you know, that's enabled me to have the life that I have now and help other people who are going through it and use my experiences for good rather than and use my experiences for good.

All right. Well, thank you so much. And definitely everybody go check out her podcast. You post on Wednesdays, right? Okay. So we can post the same day. And you guys can just get more of my story and her story. and all of that there.

Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me, Aria. Thank you. Whew. I mean, I told you it's a lot, right? That was very intense. It stays intense. It gets more intense. I don't know.

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