The Liz Moody Podcast - Chinae Alexander—How To Cultivate Self-Confidence, Pursue Your Passion & Find Inspiration In Everyday Life

Episode Date: June 12, 2019

Chinae Alexander (@chinaealexander) has long been one of my favorite inspirational accounts to follow on Instagram (she also has an amazing podcast, called Press Send). She’s incredibly honest, with unapologetic pictures of things like crotch sweat and arm fat, and insightful, with an ability to find the story and wisdom in everything from an interaction with an Uber driver to her unique Texas upbringing. This conversation represents some of my favorite elements of the Healthier Together podcast—a casual, frank conversation about everything from religion to anxiety to weight loss to pursuing your passion and how that should fit in with earning money. I also grilled Chinae about where she gets her incredible self-confidence, and came away with insights that have changed my life since. Enjoy! PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy right here or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! This episode is brought to you by ButcherBox, a brand new sponsor that I’m so excited to have on board. ButcherBox sends grass-fed and finished beef, pastured chicken and pork, and wild-caught Alaskan salmon directly to your door. I’m such a huge advocate for healthy eating being accessible to everyone, no matter where they live or what grocery stores they have access to, and I think ButcherBox, which ships nationwide, is a huge step in the right direction. If you want to try ButcherBox for yourself, go to ButcherBox.com/lizmoody. With this link, you’ll get $20 off your first order, PLUS baby back ribs, 2 pounds of ground beef, and 2 New York strip steaks free in your first box! DM me on Insta if you need ideas for what to make! This episode is also brought to you by one of my favorite food brands, Love Beets. Love Beets, which is found in the produce section of most grocery stores, makes cooked beets with no preservatives, that taste really fresh, just like a beet you would actually make yourself. They have plain beets, but also a ton of different fun flavors, including Beet Salsa, Wine & Balsamic, Honey + Ginger, and Sweet Chili. You can find Love Beets in most retailers nationwide, including Whole Foods, Kroger, and Costco, and you can also buy their beet juices and beet powder online at lovebeets.com—use the code LIZ for 20% off. You can also follow @lovebeets on Insta for more recipe ideas—and as always, you can DM me if you need recommendations or ideas for what to do with them! Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello friends and welcome back to the Healthyer Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody. I'm a writer and cookbook author living in Brooklyn where I just got back at like 2 a.m. last night after being in the South for book tour. It was so much fun. I was in Nashville and I had a panel and I got to meet so many of you guys at Parnasse's book. So that was awesome. And I also interviewed Laura Lee from Lorley Balanced and McKell from Nutrition Stripped for upcoming episodes of the podcast. And they are both so amazing. So I'm really, really excited for you guys to hear those episodes. So definitely stay tuned. Make sure you're subscribed for all of that. Then after that, I went up to Blackberry Mountain, which is this beautiful, I don't know, it's like a wellness hotel retreat place in

the Smoky Mountains. And it's absolutely stunning. And I was doing a cooking demo and sort of a wellness conversation. And we stayed in these beautiful rooms. You have to see the room tour. It's on my Instagram. I saved it in the hotel story highlights. so definitely go check that out. But it was just incredible. It was like getting to stay at this place that I never dreamed I would be able to stay and getting to hang out with all of these people like Laura Lee and McKell and meeting all of you at Parnassas and all of those types of things that I just absolutely never pictured my life going this way. And I've just been so overcome with gratitude recently. It's been sort of the recurring theme in my life just can't. I can't

believe I get to do what I do for a living. I can't believe I get to write these books. I can't believe that you guys are responding the way that you are to the cookbook and to the podcast. And it is not lost on me at all that it is due to all of you out there who are listening, who are reading the book and buying the book and sharing the book with friends. So many of you message me and are like, I'm giving it out as wedding presents this year and stuff like that. So I just think that's so, so amazing. And I'm so appreciative of every single one of you. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Today, we have a really exciting episode. It is Sheney Alexander. I have been following Sheney on Instagram for probably like four or five years now. For a long time, she was one of the

first people I followed. And she said in this interview that she wants to be sort of the millennial Oprah. And when she said that, it completely clicked for me. I was just like, oh, like, that's who you are. That's your personality. She is so inspiring. And she just has this way of seeing the world. And she can take these little stories that we all experience in our everyday life, these little experiences we all have with like an Uber driver or a guy at the grocery store or something a friend says. And she'll take it and she'll turn it into something really inspiring that you can

learn from and grow from and that everybody who follows her and catches up with her on Instagram or on her podcast and all of that can learn from too. And I just find that to be really amazing. So we talk about that in this episode for sure, how all of us, regardless of whether you're a content creator or just working a desk job or a mom or a dad or any of that, how we can find more of those little moments that make life really magical and interesting and profound. And you can take those moments and you can blow them up and turn them into real things or we can just, you know, kind of have our head down and pass through those moments and not even let them affect us. So I thought that was a fascinating practice. We also talk about her childhood. She was raised by a pastor, mom in Texas, and she's of Asian descent.

And in Texas, and her school, she was one of the only people of that. So we talk about sort of othering and race and privilege and wellness. And I don't know, it's a very meandering conversation as healthier together conversations often are. But she has so much to unpack and she has so much wisdom. And the thing I kept coming back to both when I was recording this episode with her initially and when I was editing it later was how comfortable she is in herself. I think this is a really wonderful episode to listen to if you're looking to find that

sense of beautiful comfort and wisdom and your own body, in your own mind, in your own relationships. I think, you know, Ivan is outside factors change in Chene's life. She's had a number of jobs, which we talk about in this before she came to her current job. She's been richer. She's been poor. She's been single.

She's been in relationships. She weighed 70 pounds more at one point and now she weighs 70 pounds less, which she had such interesting thoughts on the weight loss journey that I was absolutely fascinated by. But even through all of that, she just has seemed to stay very true to the core of who she is as a person and feel very comfortable with who she is as a person. So I kind of, I don't know, I feel like I learned something really profound and important from every episode of the podcast. Otherwise, I just won't put it out because I don't want to waste your guys as time.

but that was what I took from this. I'm learning to sort of feel comfortable in my womanhood and in my mind and in my body and in my soul and listening to this episode and recording it with Sheney really, really helped me with that. So I hope you guys get that from it too. Definitely come tell me on Instagram at Liz Moody what you think of the episode. And you can follow Sheney on Instagram as well. It's at Shinnay, Alexander, A-L-E-X-N-D-R.

So you can go tell her what you think of the episode as well. And if you like it, I know, I know, I know. But it really does make a difference, the ratings and the reviews on iTunes. You can go on and you can just like tap the little star button, but you can also write below it like just a one sentence line of what you think of an episode, what you found inspiring, what you found interesting. And it super, super helps. I read every single one of them and I massively appreciate it.

And I love you guys all for doing it. And I love you guys all for not doing it. And I love you guys all no matter what. So all of that is massively appreciated. I hope you guys love this episode and enjoy. And we're live. Yes. Thank you so much for having me to your beautiful.

I'm so jealous of this apartment because there's so much light here. And I'm always trying to do food photography and like my shitty little dark. You can bring your food over here. That's a compromise. And then I will take care of. Secretly, I'm wanting you to take advantage of my light, but I'm really wanting to take advantage of your food. It's beautiful. And we have your cute new little puppy here.

Yes. If you hear any sounds in the background, it's probably my dog playing with his 900 toys. It's ASMR. He can, like, come over and be like... Exactly. Sorry. I probably scared away all the misophonia people at the beginning of the episode. All right.

So I have so many things I want to talk to you, but I've been following you on Instagram for, I feel like three or four years. Wow. I don't like a long time. When did you... When did you start on Instagram? 2015. Okay. So you've been with me pretty much the whole time.

whole way. I started doing Instagram full-time two and a half years ago. Which is like pretty early totally to be doing it. Were you making a certain amount of money where you were like, I can do this full time? Yeah, it was also, I was running an event planning company, my own event planning company. And the problem was is I was staying up until three in the morning every night. Casual. So I was like, okay, the money is good. It's like decent. But I know if I could put all my energy into this. I could make enough money to like happy, sustainable living, but then also not be crazy and be up until three in the morning. And so I stopped taking a vet clients, which was actually a really risky, crazy kind of moment in my life because I was like, this is like, I've built this

business the last two years and it was successful. And I had clients. And I was like literally turning down huge jobs to like do Instagram, which sounds fucking insane. Do you curse this podcast? Yeah, I All the time. So that's sort of where I'm at right now. Like I've had my full-time job as an editor and I just left my full-time job and I'm hoping to make my podcast and my books and all of that, my thing. And I find it terrifying. Like I think it's the scariest thing. What part terrifies you the most?

The idea that I'm betting on myself, I think, in this way. That if people don't like me and what I'm offering, then I won't make any money. And I think that's really scary for me. Also, I don't come from a wealthy background at all. And so I don't, I feel like I meet so many creative people, especially out New York. And I'm like, oh, that's so cool that you have this creative job. And then I find out that their husband is a hedge fund manager or their parents are. And you're like, okay, I get it.

And I'm just like, okay, well, that's less pressure. And I feel like all that pressure. Like, yeah, it's on me. I don't come from like a wealthy. Yeah, what is your background? Like, talk me, walk me through like childhood chenet. Sure. Childhood chenay.

I was a little crazy person from birth. My mom always says she's like, you have not changed since you were born, which is pretty crazy because, look, I'll tell you a little anecdote. So when I was eight years old, I was in a church play, right? And I grew up religious and my mom's a pastor. She wasn't a pastor at this time when she is now. Anyway, I grew up in the church, whatever. I was doing a church play where I was a newscaster in the play, probably reporting on

the birth of Jesus, let's be. honest. Okay. So afterwards. Hot news, everyone. Jesus is born in Bethlehem. So this old man who happened to be my mom's gynecologist that is not a connection to the story.

That's just a side note. He was in the audience watching the play. And afterwards, he came and he was older, but he like knelt down, which I was, that is a strange thing for an adult to do that's older especially, like kneeled down on their knees in the grass and he looked at me and he goes, little girl, you're going to talk to a lot of people one day. And it felt like this very weird moment, even when I was eight, being like, like impacted me in that moment. And it's kind of like I always go back and forth and say, like, are these things that people tell us about ourselves? Like, do they call out in us what exists

or do they put in the idea that you can? What do you think? I, go back and forth. I do think it's probably in you and someone sees it and can call it out. And that's why I think it's so important for us to like call each other out on the things that we're good at and also ask people for feedback on what you're good at. So yeah, I think from my youth, I was like pretty like outspoken and I always got in trouble for being bossy, which I hated at the time. I got in trouble for being talkative, which now I get paid for. Yeah. So it all used. in doubt. Yeah, but I was an only child. And so raised by mostly single mom in Texas. Okay. Yeah, my parents, actually, I was born in Korea and then moved to Texas when I was

four. And then we settled in Texas and my dad worked a lot. Was one of your parents from Texas? No. They picked it randomly on a map. Wait, actually? Yeah. Just. And they picked the city because it was like central. Which city? San Antonio. They literally just. Yeah. My mom had watched Westerns a lot and she was like, Texas looks cool. Oh my God. That's insane. Yeah. It was, it was insane. It was an insane way to pick a place to live. Did they like it? Yeah. My mom still lives there. My dad is like a different story. But my mom and my stepdad still live in like an hour outside of Austin. Oh my God. My mom's lived in Texas ever since. She loves it. She loves Texas. And there are parts of Texas that I really love. Yeah. I just was in Austin last week and I thought it was amazing. Amazing. Austin is just like, I mean, it's so cool. It's, to me, it's like the new West Coast. It's just, it's really, really, there's a lot of interesting things going on there.

I don't know if I want to live in Texas permanently. Yeah. Probably not. So what role did religion play in your childhood? You know, I probably have, like, I think I escaped without this, like, really negative sense of religion because my parents really never, like, that's my dog's squeaker toy. Dingo, no. Give me that.

Anyway, did you guys hear that? It's a squeaker toy. It's an elephant. No big deal. We have a puppy in the room. Okay, yeah. There's a little poop in the room. Yeah, so I think I escaped without a ton of, like, that feeling of, like, religious

oppression just because my mom never forced me to go to church if I didn't want to. And even though she's a pastor. Yeah. She wasn't, she didn't have her own church until I was a little older. Okay. So we just kind of grew up with her going to church. and then her going through seminary. And I never felt really like I had to go to be accepted by my family.

And even still, my mom knows I don't go to church, but she's like, you know, like, live your life. What about the beliefs of the church? Like no sex before marriage and no cursing and whatever other stuff there is. Yeah. I think I was in a more, like, it wasn't a more liberal church for sure, but it wasn't so strict. It wasn't like Southern Baptist, like that, like no dancing, no, you know, whatever. Like, we're, we were a little bit more relaxed.

And I mean, I started drinking when I was 14 years old going to Mexico to, like, clubs. So definitely didn't follow that rule. And my mom, you know, my mom didn't really care. She knew I was like going out and partying and stuff like that because it was obvious. I mean, I was driving to Mexico every three times a week. but she was kind of just like she'll either grow out of it or she won't and it's fine she loved me anyway yeah and what was really amazing is every like hairbrained idea i ever had like with work or with moving to new york or going away for college or all these crazy ideas i ever had she supported

every single one are you like fully honest with her about everything in life too yeah um and she just has like really supported me, which I think also helps with my view of like the church and judgment and things like that because I never felt judged by my lifestyle. Yeah. And I still don't. Yeah. I don't go to church now, but I don't have any problem with the church. If it, to me, it's like everyone has to find what brings them direction and peace.

And if that's church for people, as long as they're not like, you know, telling people that it's bad to be gay or, or, you know, that you. shouldn't have sex before marriage, which I think is ridiculous. Like, there are certain things that the church, I think, has wrong with it, but maybe that faith doesn't. What is your faith now, or how do you define it? I feel like it's amorphous and always changing. Like, I definitely believe in a higher power because there have been things in my life

that I cannot explain. Like what? That would take about three hours on a podcast. And, like, it would be, like, the longest episode of your podcast and career. But I can say, like, honestly, like the harmony of how things have played out in my life, whether that be through work or through family or through love, I definitely feel like it's being guided by something else. Can I ask the question I always ask about that? Which how, so when people feel like their life is like harmonious and instinct, they're always like, yeah, that helps me believe in the universe in the higher power or whatever. And then I'm like, okay, what about all of the people born into really terrible circumstances where their life is probably never going to be harmonious and insane?

no matter what they do. How does the higher power controlling any of that play into that? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I can only speak from my experience and how I feel. And trust me that when I say harmonious, I don't mean happy. Okay. What do you mean? I mean that a lot of the things and the hardships in my life have ended me to a point

where I needed to be, but they all haven't been easy and they all haven't been good. Like, I have not had an easy life. Yeah. I have had a life that was, I think, that played out into something that I was meant to do and meant to be. But I had to have all those experiences and things to have the kind of, first of all, like, emotional acumen to like do what I do, but also to understand and have the gratitude that I need to have moving forward. because in this world of doing this job and, you know, living in New York and all these things you can really get bogged down and, like, not really realizing that you're extremely privileged. And so I spend a lot of my work and my time on talking about privilege with people, recognizing my own, and then trying to elevate people that don't have that privilege. And so for me, growing up as a kid of an immigrant that barely spoke English, having like an absolute.

and T father for the majority of my life. My mom at one point and I, you know, eating dollar box of rice because it's all we could afford. Like all of those experiences, I don't think we're happy, but I do think they were guiding. What was it like to be the kid of an immigrant in Texas of all places? Was that a defining thing in your childhood? You know what? We moved to San Antonio first and then we moved to McAllen, Texas, and both are like,

highly highly, like heavily Latin American communities. So my high school is actually 98% Hispanic. But you would still be sort of othered from, yeah, I was othered. But you know what's funny is when you're othered around others. They don't have a mentality of separation. So really, like what the funny thing was in high school is like there wasn't really like cool group. You know, there wasn't that like everyone was kind of the same socioeconomic level. everyone was had been like a minority a lot of people like 30% of my school or something like that was like migrant workers

like kids of migrant workers you know so they'd only be in school for three to six months of the year while their family was there picking you know oranges or whatever because that was like the crop that we grew a lot of um in my town so it's funny when you take away whiteness and when you take away money um how much more level it is you know, even though I wasn't, you know, their race, I did not feel othered by that community. Did you feel, I think one of the defining parts of your personality and your brand image now is this incredible sense of confidence and power and yourself. Did you feel that even then because you weren't sort of contending with your identity in that way? Totally. And you know what was interesting is like that was when I started like gaining a lot of weight and, and wasn't really at my healthiest self.

And I still felt, you know, the sense of confidence in who I was. And I didn't actually know I was other or bad. I didn't know. I literally didn't know. I just thought I was normal and fine. And I kind of thought I was the shit. And I think by not feeling kind of sectioned off by other people because it just wasn't that in my environment that I,

kept my confidence perhaps longer than other people did and to my adulthood. Did you ever have to like hold on to that because you would go to college or something and then somebody would be like, you are fat? Like, did you ever have to contend with that in the outside world? You know what? I think I've had a really easy time of it and this is privilege that I'm talking about here of I've never really been persecuted in any way because of the way I looked. Really? I've no. I've like never. And do you think that's because you were so confident? Yeah, probably. And I'll tell somebody to go fuck off. You know, like, And also, like, I always had friends.

I always had boyfriends. Like, I never, I always had like a vibe about it that I think people kind of appreciated it in a weird way. I'm just like, oh, she's like her own thing. You know, I went to college and that was a huge, huge culture shift because I went from a high school that there were gang fights every single break. And just like, it was dangerous and there's barbed wire on the school. and, you know, girls are getting a hair pulled out by the roots. Or the earring rib. The hoop earring rip?

Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. I mean, we had a whole separate high school for gangsters and pregnant girls. That's how, like, the environment was. And everyone was very poor. I mean, there were people that ate breakfast and lunch for free at school, and that was the only thing they ate. So going from that, then I went to a private school for college.

And which were rich private school, TCU, in Fort Worth. And it was extremely white. You know, it was extremely. rich and white. And that was a time where I really felt like confused about how the world worked a little bit and kind of like it taught me a lot about how to navigate privilege because I thought I had some. And then I went there and realized that these are people with a lot more privilege than me. And, you know, I loved my college experience. I joined a sorority because my college was heavily Greek. And if you weren't Greek, you didn't have a social life pretty much. And I remember getting into

one of like the best sororities as like probably a 200 pound person with fuchsia hair in a room full of like really hot blondes. And just being like, cool. I don't look like anyone here. This is cool. Like I'm happy to be here. But it, but it was a weird experience, you know, feeling like a little bit of a misfit, but accepted by the people who, weren't. But after that, I knew I had to get to New York as fast as possible just because I wanted to live in a diverse environment is important to me. And I mean, New York's full of, you know, privileged people too. Yes. For sure. But it's mixed in with a lot of people that have been here forever. And that's actually why I love living in Bedstay, because it's a really diverse community that has a

lot of like still like local roots to it. And it makes me remember the reason why I moved to New York. So I call this like that I'll have what she's having podcast. And I think the thing that I want that you're having is that like incredible sense of confidence and worth in yourself. Like I also hang out with a lot of the people that, you know, were the cool pretty kids. But I always felt like I had to like earn my place there. Like I was, I felt like I had to be like,

funny or witty and looking back at my photos from then, I'm like, oh, I was like pretty and all of that. And I was thinner than I thought I was as you always are in photos when you look back. But I didn't feel like that at the time. And I think I was only hanging out with them to like enhance myself sense of self-worth. And even to this day, like on a good day, I use Instagram to build community and connection. And that's my favorite thing. And that's when I feel really good using it and on a bad day, I use it so that I feel like I have worth in the world. So how do you get that innately? Well, I think for me, the first baseline was having a lot of people that continue to wash

over me and telling me that I was worthwhile. I always have this like mental image of like this like rough rock. But if a drop of water drip on it every day, it becomes smooth where the water drips on it. And so for me, confidence isn't like, I'm becoming confident, boom. It's every day that drip of water on the rough rock, you know, every day building into yourself a little bit more. Every day doing something that feels brave, every day, like taking in the words of people around you that are encouraging and that tell you that they're proud of you or that you're worthy of what you're doing or good chapter, Liz, you know, great outfit. Those little things, they might seem so minute.

But I think if you're not collecting that water, if you're not like realizing that that is kind of doing work in building confidence for you, then I think you let it kind of slip by. When I think people have a huge, people and women particularly are, you know, it's the like, oh, that's a great shirt and being almost, dismissing the compliment. Like, oh, I got on sale or like, oh, I didn't even pick it out or something.

We're just like not or my hair looks terrible today. We don't, we're terrible at accepting compliments, I think, myself included. I wrote a post the other day about how we have to stop. Like, I'm sure you've heard it. Maybe you've done it. I'm guilty of both. Hearing it a lot and doing it very occasionally, but I still catch myself once in a while of jumping on Insta stories and going, sorry. guys, it looks so bad right now. Or, oh, sorry, I don't have makeup on or, oh, like, the first thing you do is apologize. Look at this, look at this hair, you know, calling out our physical defects because we're so afraid for someone else to point them out first. And we've got to stop it, you know, like you have to stop it.

I have to stop it. We all have to stop it. And we have to, when people do it, go, hey, stop apologizing for existing. My friend did that, Ali Mafucci. She's a cookbook author. She was on this podcast, but she did that to me on my Insta stories. And she was like, one, you look beautiful. Two, you have to stop, like saying, oh, I'm not wearing makeup or, oh, I look so tired or something like that.

And I really, I do think calling each other out is a powerful thing, especially in like a loving, like, you are, you don't need to apologize for yourself. Right. Just existing. Also, not to be to like men, whatever. But the idea that women need to apologize for not wearing makeup when that's just our face. Yeah. That's just how our faces. That's just our face. And no man would ever be like, oh, that's my face today. Sorry you saw my face. Right. You know. Well, and also I think, you know, we're so worried that we're in competition with each other. And I was talking about this at a speaking thing the day. And I just like, don't think it's the case. Like, I think this is the thing that like we've been conditioned to believe. Truly, I think society is like, let's pit women against each other and tell them that they're. against each other and tell them that they should be in competition with each other. And it almost like takes away our power a little bit.

And the thing is, it's like, I think women are starting to realize, like, wait, that's actually not how we really feel. Like, I rarely feel truly in competition with another woman. The only time I've ever felt that way is if someone called out that I should be. You know, it's like, it's like people plant these seeds of like women are this way. Or like a scarcity mindset. Like, I think part of me, I think part of it could come from the fact that there was only so few slots at any table for women. Right.

Whether it's a CEO or like a television channel or podcast or anything. And so you feel like there's only a few slots available. And so then you need to do whatever you can to get those slots. See, the funny thing, though, is instead of us competing with each other for the one spot, we should have been competing with all the men at the table. For the extra spots that they're like purporting to not be available. Or just for their spot. Yeah. That's what I mean.

Yeah. That's what I mean. I don't need to like be like I don't need to take the one slot available for the women. I want to just take your spot. The guy slot. Yeah. And the thing is is like I think we're getting to a place with like gender and things like that, hopefully moving toward it at least. Where you're like, okay, there are 10 seats at this table and like they're going to be up for grabs.

And I hope more women push into that and say, you know, that could be a table of 10 women. Yeah. It could be just like it could be a table of 10 men. Did you hear the Ruth Bader Ginsburg quote where she was like, somebody was like, how many women have to be on the Supreme Court for you to be happy? And she's like, 10. And they were like, that's crazy.

And she's like, there was 10 men on it for hundreds of years. Like, I don't know why that's so crazy. Also love her, protect Ruth Bader Ginsburg with all of our. Everybody send good vibes to her. Yes. Someone put her in a bubble. Don't let her out. She's not allowed to leave the house anymore.

So do you never get jealous? Not really. I think I don't like when women are catty with each other and I get it very occasionally. Like, I think I've gotten about 15 mean comments in the history of Instagram, which is like, really? Yeah. Really low. Wow. Yeah. It's been crazy. It's been really crazy. And they're not even really mean. They're more this slight judgmental little thing that happens on the internet, which I hate. It's all. Always, like, coded with, like, at the end. But I love you, babe. Like, I'm just telling you this for your own good. Yeah.

I'm just like, yeah, no. Just, if you're going to say something shitty, just say it. Yeah. I'd rather you just be like, I fucking hate you. Yeah. Than, like, this, like, coded language. But I haven't experienced a lot of that online. And I know a lot of people that have.

But, you know, one time I did experience it. And this girl was, like, writing me all these crazy comments late at night. It was, but they were like, they were like, they were like, mean light. They were like, you're dumb, you're ugly on like different posts. And I was like, what's going on? So I messaged her on, I found her on Facebook and I messaged her. And I was like, hey, not sure what's going on with you, but I'm a human and like, don't talk to me that way. But like, what's going on with you? And she actually brought me back the next day. And she was like, I'm so sorry. I was really drunk. And I'm breaking up with my boyfriend or my boyfriend

broke up with me or whatever. And she was like, I'm really jealous of your life sometimes. And she's like, you really inspire me in all these things. But I just, it didn't think it was fair that you have everything that I want. And so I took it out on you and I'm really sorry. And we have this like really lovely dialogue about how we as women, like, especially when we're frustrated with external things, whether that be relationships or work or anything else.

We often do take it out on each other. Yeah. Because it's easy. kind of understand the beast. Yeah. You know? And so having that dialogue with her really taught me about why people act out, why people, especially online, why people troll, why people, you know, call things out.

And it's often because it's just insecurity or like tough things. So that makes me have like a little bit of like grace for the troll mindset as a whole. But what about like, so now that you're lively. is in some ways dependent on your following in your audience. Do you look at people who have like twice as many people as you and who you don't feel like are maybe hustling as hard or offering something of the same quality or caliber? Do you get like, how did they get that or anything like that? Or if you have some of those days where Instagram, you know, isn't putting your posts in front

of as many people and you're not getting the likes, then you see somebody else who's getting the likes, like jealousy in that way? Yeah, I think not so much because I, first of all, only follow people that really bring the energy. I don't hate follow anyone and I don't follow anyone that I don't think is bringing value. So for me, when I see success on Instagram, it's usually someone that I think is, like, working hard for that success or that has something to say. I get, the only time I get really angry about stuff on Instagram or like, angry about what other people are doing is when it's toxic to the world. You know, I see a lot of people in wellness talk about a lot of shit that I'm like, makes me want to scream. Yeah.

It makes you want to scream because it says wellness isn't for everybody. Makes you want to scream because wellness comes with a huge price tag. Yeah. Makes you want to scream because a lot of it's really disordered. it's just that stuff that's what gets me riled up on it on social sometimes more than jealousy it's kind of outrage at content um because the thing is it's like i do see what we do as a privilege you're privileged to have a platform and the thing is it's like so many people are not using it in a way that's constructive or they're not taking it seriously yeah you know and i think if you have a certain

following, you have to kind of understand your influence and the impact of it. And I just don't think a lot of people do that. So that's what gets me mad with like the jealousy thing. I mean, I get annoyed when Instagram doesn't like, the algorithm doesn't work. But that's just because I'm like, I worked hard on writing something and I want people to see it. Yeah. But I try to make a practice of like when I get up, when I get put up for jobs, I ask the brand or client if they're looking for any other people. and try to recommend people that I really like on Instagram for the jobs, too. To kind of share the love around. Yeah.

And also you want to like continue to elevate like the people that you think are doing really great work. And so instead of really like spending my time hating on the ones that I think are like blowing it or like misusing their opportunity, I really spend my energy trying to build up the ones that I think are doing a really good job. That's so applicable not just like with Instagram influencers, but just like in life if you're like, take the energy that you're spending being jealous of anybody and use it to elevate the people that you do believe are worthy and have messages. Maybe yourself included, you know, like, I think that's really powerful. And it's never, it's never been a situation. Like, there have been many times, and I'm going to say over 10, where I haven't gotten the job that a friend has gotten and we were

both up for the job. Like, that's happened so many times. Yeah. But I always am like of the mindset that that person was supposed to get that job and I'm going to get a different one. And that's okay. You know, that that wasn't for me. And at least someone I really like got it. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. I talk a lot about this in my book, but my diet is around 80% vegetables with the other 20% being animal protein, legumes, and grains. I am super picky about my meat though. And there are literally zero stores in my Brooklyn neighborhood that have the grass fed and finished and pasteurized products that. I want. And honestly, I would rather eat no meat than eat meat that's inhumanely raised or

filled with the kind of hormones that I do not want my body. That is why I was so excited when I discovered butcher box a few years back. They send incredibly high quality animal proteins frozen directly to your door. And this stuff is really frozen too. Sometimes it would sit out all day while I was at work and when I came home, it was still rock solid. Beyond being far better for the environment, this type of meat is way better for our bodies. Grass fed beef, for example, has lower levels of unhealthy fats and higher levels of omega-3s than other types of meat in addition to vitamins A and E and a ton of other health benefits. And if you want even more omega-3s, butcher box now carries wild Alaskan sack-eye salmon. While we sometimes defrost our products in the fridge, more often

I'll actually cook it straight from frozen, which I love because then no matter what, if plans change or if you're too tired to cook, your meat never goes bad and you never waste all that money. I'll pop the frozen meat straight into my instant pot, which is like an amazing. life hack, or I'll use the ground beef to make my way more veggies bolognets, which is a weeknight staple in our house. I'm such a huge advocate for healthy eating being accessible to everyone. I'm sure you guys have heard me talk about this before. It's why I don't use fancy ingredients in my recipes. I want everybody to be able to make them no matter where they live or what grocery stores they have access to. And I think Butcher Box, which ships nationwide, is a huge

step in the right direction. If you want to try it for yourself, go to butcherbox.com slash Liz Moody. That's butcherbox.com slash Liz Moody, like my name. I'll also leave a link in the show notes. And if you use that link or use the URL that I just said, you'll get $20 off your first order, plus two packs of bacon and two pounds of breakfast sausage totally free. I love Butcherbox. Having a stash of healthy animal protein in my freezer just makes it so much easier to have dinner on the table on any given night.

And I hope you love them too. DM me on Insta at Liz Moody if you need ideas for what to make. Now let's get back to the episode. Do you ever get nervous about the money stuff? No. Really? Never. And even at the beginning?

No. Why? How? I don't worry about money. At all? No. I think money is a huge stresser for people and I'm not discounting that. And I think, you know, even when I was living in New York on $30,000 a year, which is still

like, that's money for some people, you know, like that's, you know, that's a very hour salary in America. In New York, it doesn't go. In New York, it doesn't go far. Yeah. Even though you're paying, I was only paying probably a thousand dollars a month for to share, I was living in a living room of an apartment. I was going to be like, how do you find that? No.

I mean, I was living in a living room of a one bedroom. But, you know, at that time, you're like, do the math. $30,000 a year, $12,000 of it goes to rent. Taxes take another six. Yeah. Not a lot of money left over. But even then, I kind of was like, I've never been a money or things obsessed person. And so I've always been kind of like, okay, I'll manage, you know, with whatever I have.

And I mean, I went into a significant amount of debt when I started my event planning company because I was like, oh, shit, I don't have a consistent salary. So it was my first time being an entrepreneur. So I put everything on a credit card. And then I would pay for things for the events with my credit card. and then the clients would pay me back in cash. You know, I mean, not cash, but with my like invoice. Yeah.

I would get reimbursed. And so that way I had cash flow for like things like rent, food, like things that I wasn't. But then you're just building up credit card. Exactly. So I ended up with like $23,000 in credit card debt at one point. My interest payments were like $600 a month. I was just paying interest, basically. And I started doing Instagram stuff.

That started growing. I stopped my event planning company, just full-time did Instagram. And I remember talking to my account last year, probably in like September, October. And I was like, I was talking about investing and like doing all the stuff. And I was like, you know, I do have this like credit card debt that I'm still sitting on. And he was like, well, you should just like really work on the credit card debt first, you know? And I looked at my bank account. I'm like, I have more than enough to just pay this.

And I remember that day, I got off the phone with my accountant and I just went to my bank account and I paid it. paid the whole credit card debt off with the money that I had in savings. But for me, it wasn't about the credit card debt. That was a moment where I really felt like, okay, you're not believing the lie that you need the security blanket of like this cash flow because you might not get paid again. You have to let that shit go. Like you're moving forward in a way that always has a little bit of fear attached to it. because that credit card debt for me meant that I was always worried about having cash in the bank

when I was doing fine. Yeah. You know, but it still was this like signifier of that of like maybe you won't be successful. Yeah. You won't have enough one day. And I mean, some of that is healthy worry. But a lot of it for me was actually unhealthy worry. And so the day I paid that off, I felt this huge weight lifted off me not only because I didn't have debt, but because

I feel like I am taking a really tangible step in believing in myself fully and the fact that this is going to continue to flourish. And if it doesn't, I'm going to figure it out. And I have to trust my instincts on all those things. I do find that people who were raised with less money, like I was talking with Jeanette Ogden, who shut the hell up. And she wasn't raised with very much money. And she's like, it gives her a certain confidence because she's like, if this doesn't work out, I can go back to working retail. Like she doesn't need to have a lot of money to have a lifestyle that she's comfortable with. Exactly.

And I think also you grew up watching people work a lot of different types of jobs. And like, I mean, I remember watching my dad like glue rhinestones on jewelry backing in our living room on a TV tray when we first moved to America for him to go try to sell door to door like costume jewelry. So like that's the mindset I grew up with. I grew up with this like scrappy will make it work. So like for you, it doesn't, if people are like, well, what if Instagram goes away after three years? You're not like, oh, my God, my entire livelihoods over. You're like, I'll just figure out the next. Yeah.

And I was a marketing director for eight years. I, you know, I started an event planning company that was successful. This is my third, like, big venture of my life. So it's kind of like, yeah, I'll figure it out, you know. And I think that's what like spending weekends at a flea market with your family will do to you, you know, whenever you grew up, like, every Saturday, going to a flea market selling jewelry. And most of your childhood was spent doing that rather than like playing sports on the weekends or whatever.

Like it teaches you a lot about yourself. And you were asking about my childhood. And this is a story that I think sums me up. Maybe as a business person, but also like that this is just a through line of like, I'm going to make it work. So in my school with those chocolate bars. Did you ever those chocolate bars? They sold in school.

Yeah. They're like white wrapper with like a gold foil. They're C's, aren't they? No, ours were like off-branded. Oh, ours were C's. Y'all have the bougie can. No, we had like some off-brand, like weird off-brand company. Okay.

So, you know, you sold them for like school fundraiser, basically. Yeah. And so I remember they asked us like how many boxes we wanted. How many boxes do you guys want to, you know, each? Because you had to place an order. and they gave you the boxes. So most kids were like, they had 20 bars in a box, and most kids were like one or two boxes.

They're selling them to their family, their neighbors. And I remember telling the lady I wanted 10 boxes. She was like, what are you going to do with all these chocolate bars? And I was like, I'll be fine. Take them. My mom picks me up, takes these 10 box, 10 huge boxes. And they were white boxes. I remember them distinctly, and they had a little handle,

like a little briefcase to, like carry them. Yeah. And I remember my mom being like, What are we going to do with all these chocolate bars? You're an only child. We don't have any friends. Where are you going to sell these? And I remember I said, mom, I'm going to sell them.

We're going to go to businesses. And we're going to sell them. I'm going to sell them by the box, not by the bar. Oh. And I don't know where I thought of that. But I remember the first place that I'd had my mom take me was an insurance agency. And I walk in. It was like in a little portable building and had these like kind of portable.

looking stairs. And I walked up and I opened like squeaky little screen door and I walked in and I was too short to reach my box up on the reception area. But I mean, excuse me, would you like to buy a box of chocolate? And I remember she went around the office and got all the money from everybody and they bought a box of chocolate. And I remember walking out being like, that was awesome, you know, and being like, I had an idea of how to do this in a different way and it worked. You know, and being so proud of that and just being like, oh, yeah, this is, I'm like, I got this. Yeah.

And anytime I doubt how I'm going to make money or how I'm going to, like, further my business or any of that, I go back and think about, like, this is inherent in you. Like, this was with you from the beginning. You had an instinct for it. your parents bred this in you, but also, like, you had this. And so, you know, sometimes when I get scared or if I do have any worry, just go back to, like, that little fourth grade me going, you, you knew instinctively how. So, like, you got it. Keep going. Do it in a different way than everybody else. And I think that alleviates a lot of my ear with money and business. Also, I love what

tables. So whatever came to that, I love waiting tables. Oh man. I feel like I would not have you ever done it. No. I've done like John Bajus was sort of like I done like the behind the counter thing which I was, did you make the week grass shots. I did. And I was training people on register by the end of my first day, which is damn. Yeah. Um, but. Uh, we can always go back. I yeah. I could. I could. Let's hope we don't. I mean, I didn't like, I liked being a server, but I am not. It's not my career of choice. Is this year? your favorite career that you've had? You know what? I think they're all the same, to be honest. So you had marketing for eight years and then you had your event planning company and then you have,

do you call yourself an influencer now or what to you? I call myself a social entrepreneur because I'm trying to build like a media company more than just like an Instagram or a social following. Like when I met with my team this year, I have a team of five that works with me. And we met we met as being the year and they were like, how do we want to grow your following? I'm like, I don't want to grow my following. I don't care about growing my following. I want to grow my company. So that's kind of how like the podcast, the book, you know, the more speaking engagements, things like that all fit in. But the way that they all string together is they all involve people and showing people things and how to live their life. So whether that's like marketing luxury furniture of like working with people to like design furniture, working with people to. talk about furniture. We did a lot of events there. I got to do a lot of creative things that company for me then moving on to event planning. My focus is people, celebrating people, like building experiences for people. And now it's talking to people about their lives and enhancing

their lives, hopefully, through primarily social media. So for me, I feel like I've been doing the same shit for like a long time. But just to, in different ways. And I think that's how like people put a lot of stress on like finding what they need to do, like finding the job of their dreams. Like find out the little through line that makes you happy. Like find out, find that one thing that propels you. And then you can do a million things with that one thing. With that thing. You know, and then you don't feel so stress about making the right choices. You know, I think we have so much stress about like, am I making the right career choice? Am I making the right moves. Do I need to leave this job? Do I need to

I talked at Dracville University a couple weeks ago and a girl came up back door. She said, I just, I'm so stressed. I said, why? She's a freshman and I don't know what major to pick. And you know, in hindsight, you look back and go, nobody like, this fucking major doesn't matter. I don't want to say that to her in such curt terms because I'm like, everything matters to you at this point. Like, and she's like, and I'm worried about my GPA. I'm like,

No one's asking my GPA since I graduated. I don't know about you. Don't even remember my GPA. But, you know, I told her, I said, most people don't do something that they studied in school. Find out what you like. I said, what do you like? She goes, I love hip hop. I was like, well, you know what?

You do something, do a side hustle, make a podcast about women in hip hop. Do something with hip hop that you really like. Because she wants to educate people about hip hop. Cool. Which I was thought was like, I was like, this is your passion. This is your job. And I said, this doesn't have to be your career, but you have to do something with that passion, you know? And I just think we get so stressed out these days about making the right choices when we end up where we're supposed to be.

What about for people who they know the things that they love to do, but they feel like their lives are prohibiting them from doing those things? like they don't feel like they have the opportunities or they feel saddled down by a job that they need to make a lot of or not a lot, just enough money to like be their family. Like have security and such a thing. Yeah. I think we've done ourselves as a disservice. I'm a millennial. Are you a millennial? Yes.

Okay. I'm like very cusp millennial. Yeah. I'm 32. Yeah. So we're just like we barely made the end of the thing. Yeah. I think unfortunately we've been sold this, this lie that you have to do your passion as your job.

Like your passion has to be. be congruent with your work. And I don't think that has to be the case. I think you can have your work and your passion, your side hustle, your whatever can fuel you outside of that. When did we have to make our hobby or a job? Well, and I think it takes a lot of the joy out of your hobby, too. Like, do you feel like with cooking and food, do you feel any joy has been taken away by doing it for work? Well, so my passion, the thing I thought I was going to do since I was five was to be a writer. So for me and I worked, I had a newspaper column for years and I worked as like a writer, and then I wrote five novels that I got agents for all of them and none of them were sold to publishing houses.

Five. Whoa. And I think for me, it was only in veering towards food and wellness with my writing that I found success. So it's interesting because I still view myself as a writer, but I understand that my success has been found through like food and wellness. So I love food. I don't think any of my joy has been taken away from food by doing food professionally. I do when I was trying to write the novels, and especially when I quit my job to my husband got in grad school in England and I was like, this is going to be my time to like make

my novels work is now or never. And when I was like, I need to make money out of this, it took all the joy out of it. Because I was like, if this novel is not a success, I've wasted all this time. I don't have money to pay my rent or live. And in that situation, I would 100% be like I should have been working a full-time job. And right, I mean, I would have had, not only would I have felt better, I would have produced better work because you're not putting the same pressure on it to keep you afloat financially. I do think it's, it can breed a lot of unhappiness when you feel like when everyone in the world feels like their nine to five or whatever it is has to be their ultimate. passion. I think it creates a lot of stress. I think it creates pressure. I also think it makes people

really feel down when that isn't the case. And so I'm kind of like nothing should stop you from doing your passion. It just doesn't have to be your work. You know, like there have been generations of people who have not done jobs that they're passionate about and have lived happy, content lives. Ask your grandparents. I actually, and sometimes I think that that's even more happy and content because they don't constantly feel like they're failing at doing their quote unquote passion all the time. Exactly. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think obviously, you know, people had less ability to like pursue whatever. I mean, obviously we live in a world that's just really opened up with the internet and all these things and accessibility to a lot of things. But I do think there was something to the fact that our grandparents had jobs.

They went to jobs, you know, and then they found their joy elsewhere a lot of times. I mean, I'm sure there was a few people that were passionate about their work or found joy in their work. But for the most part, I think people had jobs. You know? Yeah. Like, I just think that that was the case. In Japan, it's actually much more like that still. They kind of have, if someone works at a cosmetics counter, they work at a cosmetics counter. And that may be their career for their whole life, you know, and it's less focused on constantly seeking this, you know, kind of igniting your personal passions through your career. Well, and I don't think it's a coincidence that depression and anxiety have just been going

up since that's been going up. Absolutely. Have you struggled with mental health stuff at all? Yeah. So I had, I was in a bad relationship and there was a few years ago and I struggled with generally generalized anxiety disorder for almost a year. And then I struggled with panic for that time for about six months. So I got on, I was doing talk therapy before that.

And then I throughout that I was doing talk therapy. But then I started actually passing out fainting from panic disorder. From anxiety attacks. From from panic. Wow. And I didn't know that they were. I thought they were low blood sugar. And then I went to my doctor and he was like, hmm.

And he was like, maybe you should go see a psychiatrist. I went to a psychiatrist that my talk therapist recommended. And she was like, oh, yeah, this is like definitely panic. And so I had four panic attacks, I believe, total. And every single one of them was a fainting spell, which was really scary because a lot of them were in public. So you would just like feel like it would pass out and then you wake up with like people standing over you? Oh my gosh. Usually I would wake up pretty fast.

It was like, you know, it wasn't enough. I mean, I remember one day, the last panic attack I had, I was, we had gone to see a concert. We had gone to see a Kanye show in Jersey, me and my friends. And we were driving back and we stopped at McDonald's for the bathroom. and I ordered a ball of water. I remember grabbing for the ball of water thinking I grabbed it. And the next thing I know, I hear, ma'am, ma'am, your water. And I remember my face hitting the floor.

And that's how I woke up. My face hitting the like cold McDonald's floor. And I remember just being like, I can't do this anymore. I can't live like this. So I got on medication, never had another panic attack, got my anxiety under control, broke up with the boyfriend. And then I was like, I'd been on medication for probably six months and I told my doctor, I was like, I don't, I am not an anxious person. I have never dealt with this in my life.

I think this was conditional based on this relationship. I really want to get off medication. And she said, well, you feel better because you're on medication, which is sometimes true. People do feel better. And it's because they're on medication. Yeah. And I was like, no, no, I really do. I'm very self-aware about this.

stuff. I said either you can take me off medication slowly or I'm just going to not take it anymore. And she was like, okay, I'll wane you off the next two weeks and we'll see how it goes. And I ended up never having another panic attack and never struggling with anxiety ever again. But even, you know, as we were talking about in the beginning of the podcast, like the not easy, crazy, hard parts of life, I do think string together to bring you where you are. And so, without struggling with that sort of stuff, I don't think I would be able to have the amount of empathy that I have for people that struggle with mental illness or be able to talk about it with any sort of clarity or compassion for it. And so as hard as that time of my life was,

especially as like a strong, confident, independent person being like, I need medication. I think it gave me exactly what I needed to be able to talk. to people about their own mental health. Now, have you ever struggled with things, Eddie? I'm sure you talked about this in the podcast. My big, big, big, big thing is things. I was completely agoraphobic and, like, bedridden for a month when I was living in London after this whole novel thing.

And I'm trying to get to the point where I feel grateful for it. I don't think I'm there yet. Yeah. I feel, and I think it's because I feel a lot of anger at myself at the decisions that I made that led to the point of sort of my mental health. crisis. And I think if I could move past that anger at myself, I could maybe be a little happier. But right now I'm just like, like, why didn't you make different choices, which is frustrating. Let's talk a little bit about your career because I do think that you have a career that is

very envied and also not very understood. What does an actual day look like in your life? Okay. So I actually do most days, or I try to when I have time post my daily schedule. And I started doing that because, like on Instagram stories, because I found that people didn't really understand or what the actual nuts and bolts of being a content creator and running your own businesses. So usually I have, in a given week, I'll say in a given week, I have a shoot or two with like a press outlet or something or a photographer I haven't worked with. Then I do my own content shoot with my team. We've like a weekly team call that we regroup everyone, my management, and my team. We talk about goals, things that we're working on,

where we're out of certain projects. With that goals, like, if your goal wants to, like, grow your brand, will they help you achieve those goals? Like, will they tell you like, oh, you need, if you're like, my goal is to be on Good Morning America, would they be like, okay, we'll get you on Good Morning America. How does that work? No, it's much more, like, my management team really helps me with brand partnerships and like kind of sponsored things, any like ways I'm working with any sort of like bigger brand. One thing I've been really focused on this year is building deeper in my relationships with not only brands, but just people in the industry of just like, I want to like dig deeper with people a little bit. So I spend a lot of my week

meeting with people, talking with people, brainstorming projects. I spend a lot of my time with brands going, okay, how can I build content strategies that flow through my channels, but for you? I usually do about one speaking thing a week. And then a lot of my time is really spent doing like email, that kind of stuff. And that's boring. But it's, I get swamped with the email. And then I get about 300 DMs a day. So I.

Do you apply to all of them? Yeah. I try to. So that in and of itself is another inbox. Right. You know, and a slower one at that because it's not a keyboard. Yeah. If Instagram would just let you answer messages via the web app or the website, you can't.

So I literally have to sit on my phone. And then I do a lot of like strategy stuff for myself. So just like what I'm working on next, how I want to grow my brand next. Like the podcast was a huge one. We have a monthly newsletter that I put out that's completely the editorial content. then I'm kind of, we talked about this earlier a little bit before we started recording, but working on the first steps of my book. I do a lot of podcast recordings.

Like each week I probably do one to three recordings for other podcasts and then doing recordings of my own. So yeah, it's a lot of that sort of stuff. And then I'm also like attending events and things like that. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. This episode is sponsored by one of my favorite food brands, Love Beats. You may have seen them in your local grocery stores produce section. They're in the cute little packages with all the little hearts all over them.

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which I'm super, super picky about, as you guys know. I keep a stash in my fridge, and I use them in salads, and often I'll put them in my freezer for smoothies. With some cacao, it essentially makes like a red velvet flavor that's so delicious. Recently, I've also been getting more into their flavored packs. The beet salsa is sweet and spicy and so good. I love throwing it on a stir fry or a grain bowl as a to tapper to elevate all the rest of the flavors. They have a ton of different fun flavors. Wine and balsamic, honey and ginger, sweet chili, and even my mother-in-law who honestly hates beet,

she won't even make the beet recipes in the healthier together cookbook, but she will eat the flavored one straight from the fridge. I think the wine and balsamic are her fave. You can find love beets in most retailers nationwide, including Whole Foods, Kroger, and Costco. And you can also buy their beet juices and beet powder online at Love Beatt. You can use the code Liz L-I-Z, like my name, for 20% off. There have been a ton of studies showing the benefits of beet juice for lowering blood pressure and improving athletic performance. I personally love to use it mixed with sparkling water, like a half-and-half situation,

to make a beet soda, and they have a ginger version that's especially good for that. The powdered beet is also a great option for those red velvet smoothies that I mentioned. It is so, so good. You can also follow at Love Beats on Insta for more recipe ideas. And as always, you can DM me if you need recommendations or ideas for what to do with them. I'm at Liz Moody on Instagram. All right. I hope you guys love Love Beats as much as I do.

And I cannot wait to see what you guys make with them. Now, let's get back to the episode. Okay. So how often do you post on Instagram? Between zero to three times a day. Okay. And when you're posting... On average one a day.

Is that... Have you already taken all those photos in like a photo shoot? and then you're just going through those photos and finding ones that fit with what you want to say? No. No. No. I would say 80% of what I posed is in the moment. The photo, too.

Yeah. Okay. Most I would be- Because your photos are stunning. I would say 80% of the photos I've taken that day. Okay. Or if I do have shoots, like I do a content shoot like once every two weeks and I get probably like six to seven images that I can pepper through. But I would say most of them are taken in the moment.

And also I write everything in the moment. Yeah, I was going to ask that too. So if you're just like inspired by an idea, will you figure out a photo you could take that would match that idea and then write it out and then post it? Yeah. And most of my photos that go with my writing are just kind of like not related unless it's like something with body. I try to like show your body. Yeah. Yeah.

And kind of be more conscious of maybe not picking such like a perfect looking photo. You know? Yeah. Like I don't go, I don't take a lot of like takes on photos, to be honest. Do you take them on your phone mostly or do you take on a camera? We use camera phone. Then my photographer actually uses a camera. But really, I think what does better on Instagram for me at least is more kind of

candid in the moment things. I mean, sometimes I just set up my tripod and put the self-timer on and go for it. I was wondering because you're in so many of your photos. So that feels tricky to take your own photos that you're in. But my assistant helps me. or all have Craig take a photo, me, my boyfriend, or if I'm with friends, I'm like, hey, could you snap a photo? Like, I've literally had my UPS driver take a photo of me.

Do you have any tips? I've had my Uber driver take a photo of me. Because your photos are, they're so beautiful. Thank you. How, do you have any tips from taking really stunning photos? I would say, I used to never smile in photos because I found it to be very fake. I was like, well, I wasn't smiling then. So I think the one thing that's changed for me is I still don't smile faking.

I just had to figure out how to get happy. And so for me, it was like when the rest of your life you can focus on bringing more joy into your life, I found that that increased the joy I found in taking photos and how much happier I looked and felt in photos and how I was so much just hard on myself. whenever I felt really happy in my life. And so I think like the best photo tip I have is to like start chipping away at those insecurities that you have. Because there's like, I mean, sometimes I take like three photos. I'm like, okay, well, one of those will work. And if it doesn't, it just wasn't my day.

It wasn't my day. And you don't have like, I'm super insecure about my chin and you don't like have like little things you look at that like if my chin looks weird in a photo, I'm like, oh, like I don't like that photo. I think it's completely fine to have weird things about whatever. I mean, the funny thing is, it really wouldn't make sense for me to, like, say the things I say on Instagram and be overly critical about my photos. Yeah. So I really try to have it match up, even just in my brain, even if someone didn't know that I was being picky about a photo.

Yeah. I'm kind of like, yeah, there are photos. I'm like, oh, I wish that little roll of back fat wasn't there. I wish I didn't have this like weird, you know, sports bra thing happening with like, arm, everyone has armpit fat, first of all. Yes. Like literally everyone, I don't care how tiny you are. You still have armpit fat.

Get over it. Or like, oh, like a double chin. I mean, there's, like, there's things for sure. But I consistently have to go, this is not, this doesn't matter. Number one, people will appreciate imperfection. people will appreciate the realness of it. I mean, like, half my, like, workout photos have, like, crotch sweat. And, like, sure, I could take it out.

I could Photoshop it out. But, like, it's real. And it happens. And that's okay. And, like, do you try to do a mix of sort of, like, the aspirational on the real, though? Because I'm, like, I'm picturing there's one shot of you in, like, a bathtub, I feel like in England. Yes.

And it was, like, truly, like, it looked like it could have been, like, framed and put on a wall. And you know that's not what I look like when I bathe. Literally. Well, I think also the environment helps. Yeah, it's beautiful. Like, it's like if you get good light, if you can get some good light in there and like a pretty setting, it's always nice. But, you know, that photo, we were about, we were actually rushing to go to a dinner. And my friend Akila was staying with me in London, or in, in, we're in actually the countryside. But I was like, hey, do you think you could take a couple quick photos before we go to dinner? The light's really nice in here. And that was literally on my iPhone just like my friend taking photos.

Wow. Yeah. And I think for me, people, when they photograph me, they often say, you're so comfortable in front of the camera. But I kind of just like want them to stop it at you're so comfortable. You know, it's like you're just comfortable. Yeah. You know, and I think the more we work on the comfortability with ourselves, whether that's

in front of a camera or in front of our significant other or in front of the, girls in the equinox locker room or at soul cycle or running down the street or with your family wherever it is like if we can just be more comfortable and like slowly let ourselves just feel more at peace about the way we look and the imperfections that we have that truly only make people feel more comfortable around you well and they're not going to change too like my face is going to be my face. And I mean, I think about it a lot because I'm not an influencer to the level that you are, but I also, because I'm in food, I feel like a lot of people are posting, like, their body pictures and stuff. And I, I've not felt comfortably at least so far posting that

because I don't have like the abs and all of that. But I'm also like, my body is my body. And unless I drastically change my lifestyle, like my body isn't going to change, especially as a food professional where I'm like recipe developing all the day. Nobody cares about abs. Like, people care about abs in the sense of like, sure, like, people love, like, looking at hot bodies on Instagram, but, like, no one is following me because of me, my body. Yeah. Like, no one is following me because I have abs.

I bet some people are following you because you're really beautiful. Well, I think, you know what? I hope they follow me because they feel like I might be an approachable person that they could be friends with. And, like, whether that's, like, beautiful or not. I think approachability. You know, it's kind of when you, when someone that you think is going to be really mean is really nice. It's really nice in person.

And it makes you love them just so much more. Yeah. Because you're like, you have the power to be terrible. Yeah. And you're not. You know, like for me, that's kind of why I want to always show up in a real way because I want people to go, she could curate this. Like, she could make me feel bad about myself.

She could only show up with makeup. She could not point out her insecurities. She could talk about just how good her life is. But I like her more because she doesn't because she makes me feel more human. And that's why, like, I committed to not using Instagram filters anymore, like on my stories ever. I haven't done it probably in a year because I think it's bad for us. I think it's toxic for us. They've literally done studies where even with, like, the puppy ones and stuff because you're

like enhancing your eyes and stuff. It literally, it changes what you expect to see in the mirror and then you're disappointed with what you do see in the mirror, which is frightening on like a deep fucked up level. And it's really frightening for young girls who, you know, are changing and becoming themselves and they're just seeing themselves this lens constantly. And then they have in the hours that they spend alone in their room looking at themselves, they feel so like gravely disappointed in themselves, you know, which, which I have girls that follow me.

They're 13. You know, so for me, well, if I show up on Instagram and there are days when I look like shit, and I'm not saying I look like shit to like down myself. Like some days you look like shit. It's like that's just like fact of life. Yeah.

I don't feel bad about looking like shit. I just look like shit sometimes. You know, you wake up. I mean, right now I have a huge lip pimple. I have one right beneath it. I was like, cool. Like this is like what's happening on my face right now. And like,

I'm not going to put tons of makeup to be on an Insta story just so I cannot have a lip pimple. Right. Like, that's just silly. But I've had so many young girls message me and tell me that it makes them feel more comfortable in themselves. That's amazing. You know, which to me, it's like, I did my fucking job. Yeah, no, that's amazing. Okay.

So what about the captions? Is that, do you ever get, like, writers block? Or do you always feel like you have to, like, have some sort of inspiring message or how do you approach those? If I don't have anything to say, I won't write. So sometimes that's like a couple hours. Sometimes that's days. I mean, there have been like, you know, three days I'll pass. I'm like, I just don't want to write anything.

Then it's like bullshit. We've all read those Instagram captions that you're like, this is like inspirational, but like fake inspirational. Yeah. Like it just is words. So I never want to do that. Plus, I never want to feel the pressure to have to produce content. Yeah.

You know, like you've to push content out today. It's like, do you ever have like a week, though, go by or two weeks where you don't feel like you have something to say to an audience in that way? No, because I'm constantly thinking about this stuff. Like, and I'll try to pull inspiration from anywhere. Like where? I'll see, like, interactions online or I'll, even things like an Uber driver would say to you. Or, like, you're walking down the street and it's like you pick up little bits of inspiration. I think a lot of people, they see inspiration and they kind of just like shove it out of their brain.

They're just kind of like whatever. And I kind of like go, okay, what about that interaction? What about that thing impacted me in some way? Which is a cool way to live your life in a lot of ways because then you're more open to being impacted constantly into thinking about these interactions that you're having in a more deep and meaningful way. Yeah. And it infuses your life with little bits of meaning where there might not have been meeting before. And you're a writer. I mean, telling stories about things is powerful.

And so I find that taking anecdotes from life is the most powerful way to communicate a message. So, for example, I was walking down the street. It was about to go get a bikini wax. Too much information maybe. But I was sopping sweaty from a workout walking down the street. And this guy taps me on the shoulder. I had my headphones. And he's like, take your headphones off.

So I thought I dropped something because it was so, he was acting so early. He was acting so urgent about it. Take my headphones off. And he goes, he's like, where you had it? And I don't, I'm not going to tell you where I'm going. And he's like, I was like, I have to go. I'm running late, which I was. And he said, well, at least give me your number.

At least. And that really caught me in a weird way. Just like, at least give me your number. Kind of this underlying thing of what men owe or what women owe men. and I was like, I have a boyfriend. And I didn't have a boyfriend at the time. And I put my headphones on and I walked away. And I got down the block.

And I looked back and I saw him like walking slowly in the other direction. And I remember going, no, I'm late. But this matters for me personally. And I ran back down the block and I tapped him on the shoulder in the same manner that he tapped me. I said, excuse me. I said, I don't have a boyfriend. I just don't want to give you my number. And I put my headphones on and I walked away.

And for me, like, that could have been something that just happened, like in life. But I was like, what did I learn from this? What did I learn about my own feminism? What did I learn about taking up space in this world and not being kind of fearful of your own environment? What did I learn about standing up for myself, not making excuses for, you know, saying no to someone? You know, what did I learn about that time that I lost being worth it, going back? being late for a reason. You know, like, what did I learn from all those things and how can I share them with people?

And so for me, that's how I gain a lot of inspiration. It's just like things that happen on a daily basis. Living in New York, you have a lot of those. But I love the idea that there are all of these little moments and we might not be paying attention to them enough to be asking those questions afterward. That I think one of my biggest things is like, how do you infuse life with meaning and purpose? And those are the things that that feels like that's it. That's the meaning and purpose. But we're having all these little moments that could be meaning and purpose.

And we're not stopping to question how they fit into our larger thoughts and feelings and view of our life's narrative. What do you think for you is your biggest distraction when it comes to picking up on those things? Like what do you find in your life distracts you from being more in tune? I think for me, I'm a very narrative thinker. and I tend to think I already know the story. So I think I don't pick up on stuff because I think I already know what's going on.

I don't pick up. I just went to this thing recently where it's like an offline retreat and nobody says their jobs until the last day and you don't even have to do that then. And you have a week together where you're getting into each other's like trauma on this very deep level. And it was so fascinating to me to realize how much I judge people, like how much I'm like, oh, like, you're the cool girl with the cool job and the cool clothes and even or you're like the loser that I don't want to talk to. And I think of myself as like an incredibly empathetic, open-minded person.

But to realize how much I did that was appalling to me because I'm not letting even the cool girl, I'm elevating her, but I'm not letting her be who she is. Right. And the same for the quote unquote loser, not letting anybody be who they are. I'm telling myself who they are before I'm letting them tell me. me who they are. And so I think that... Do you find that that's like a, like a safety thing? It's like, if I tell the story before I figure it out, it's like safer? Or do you just feel like you just like, kind of coming up with the narrative? I think it's both. I think I have a very narrative brain.

And I also took that part of my brain and I like practiced it over and over, which contributes my anxiety. I can like tell a brilliant story, but everything that will go wrong in the world. But I also think that it's a safety thing. I think that I used to, I remember, I had a very contentious relationship with my stepmother growing up and we would fight all the time. And I would sort of script what she would say in my head before she'd say it because it'd make me feel comfortable. But then I would be devastated because she wouldn't adhere to the script. Right. Right. And you're like, wait, that's not what you're supposed to say. Yeah. It's not what you're supposed to say. And it would and it would be really, really hard for it. But yeah, it was to protect myself for a lot of things.

It's so interesting. I mean, like not only telling narrative, you know, coming up with the narrative about situations, but also people. Yeah. What do what did you have to break? through to be able to do that yourself to like pick up on those little moment. I think quieting my life down a little bit. I think I was all over the place and I was constantly busing my mind with a lot of other things. And so I think they were always happening. These little moments were always happened.

They always happened to everybody. But I think going, okay, something happened. It did strike you in a way. I'm a very sensitive person in that way and going, Kachenei, you're going to have to use like some brain power on like why this hit you. And also what is a story you could tell that would benefit others. So that's kind of like we were talking about my book that I want to write and then I'm going to be writing. And it's it starts with like an essay and an anecdote and then it ends with how people can apply it to their life and kind of like what I learned.

And so that's kind of my book is actually just the way that I've been trying to think more of, okay, this little interaction. hit me or this thing a friend said to me struck me in a certain way, whether that be positive or negative or someone said something, comment on an Instagram on some little thing. Like, how do I make this a thing that I use as something that I learn from, but then also that I can teach? And I never thought of myself as a teacher. But I think I'm more of like an art teacher of like I'm doing the project along with you.

Like I'm drawing alongside you. Yeah. Like I'm drawing too. I'm fucking up too. you're fucking up, we're sharing this experience. And so one thing that helps me whenever I have writers block or if I just have an idea, but I can't flush it out, is I go exercise. Because I find that exercise, you can't use as much of your brain when you exercise. You can't kind of be thinking about a lot of other things because part of your brain is just focusing on what work you're doing.

So it actually, to me, it kind of clears things out. It clears a lot of noise for me. so I can just focus on one thing. So I'll focus on, obviously, the physical element, but I'll be sitting there just, like, marinating, literally. And sometimes I'll say the words or say the idea in my head. And the more I just think about it while doing physical activity, it, like, gives me inspiration. I love that.

It's really, like, I mean, I don't know if it would work for everybody, but if anyone listening is to has writers block or has issues with, like, coming up with concepts, whether that be on Instagram or just at work in general, or if you're wanting to talk to someone about something difficult, it's really helped me to just kind of ruminate while doing physical activity rather than doing something stagnant. I don't know the science.

Any more reason to motivate me to exercise, like a good thing too. Oh my gosh. I write most of my content while I'm working out in my brain. Yeah. And then I'll, I write 99% of my captions like on the way to or from a workout. Do you work out every day? I used to be obsessive with working out. I used to work out six, seven days a week, sometimes twice a day.

And I was like, this is not actually, like, productive for me. And not healthy in another way because my body was really exhausted. So I work out now probably four to five times a week. And you just do it to sort of feel good? Yeah, feel good. Like, obviously maintain health and, like, keep my body moving. It's great for Router's Block. It is great.

I mean, makes me feel so much more awake during the day. Don't you feel so much better? I do. I can know I will feel so much better. I try to work out and meditate every morning. And I can know I will feel so much better afterwards, but I will still, like, sit on the couch, like, staring at the area where I would normally go work out for, like, 20 or 30 minutes.

I think it's also, it's hard to work at home, no? I like it because I feel like I don't want to lose, like, two hours in my day to, like, track to the city, workout, and then come. home? I don't know. And also I, for me, and I'm still working on this, like, valuing myself enough to spend money on myself, but dropping $20 for a class gives me the heby-g-ebes versus, like, spending $20 for a month of online workouts. So I'm realizing how much that's tied up in this, like, feeling that I'm not worth it. And I'm really working on that. But right now, that's sort of where, where I'm at. What's the one thing that you splurge on for yourself? That you spend an unapologetically.

Travel. Okay. And I think it's because of a very young, I used to travel, I spent years in my life traveling and I always, I like feel validated that that's a worthy life experience. Yeah. Yeah. But you're like, this feeds me in so many other ways. It feeds me in so many other ways. But working out, I don't know, I like can't get over. So I, it's good, your good motivation to actually.

And I do a lot of different things, some that costs a lot of money and some that cost none. And I think that's a huge problem with the wellness industry right now is that we put a premium on wellness. And we say only if you can afford. a $20, $30 class, are you well? Only if you can afford a $20 thing of matcha or a, you know, $12 smoothie, are you well. And I really am trying to redefine wellness on social as like doing the best that you can for your body, mind, and soul with what you have in front of you. So what like wellnessy stuff do you do if it's not the macha and the, you know.

No, I don't think it's not that I don't do that. I just don't think you need it to be well. Because I think we've been, the last few years, we've really been putting a vortex of like wellness is for rich white people. Yep. And I don't like it. I don't like that vibe. I don't like the lack of diversity in the wellness industry.

The thing is, there's not a lack of diversity in the wellness industry. There's a lack of diversity in the popular wellness industry. A lot of the trendy things are from other cultures. You know, I mean, had a woman named Rachel come over. I'd never cooked Indian food before, and she cooked Indian, she's Indian. And we cooked Indian food together. And we're talking about turmeric.

Yeah. And I kind of asked her, you know, how do you feel about turmeric being like the hot, the hot new thing when this has been used in your culture for centuries, you know, since the beginning of your culture. And we talked about like appropriation of even ingredients in the wellness world. world. There's nothing wrong with making machas or superfood balls or goji berry, whatever you make, or, you know, golden milk. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think going, there is a rich history of this that's like comes from cultures that are not our own. Well, I also think that it feels easier. Like, I think people are like, they don't want to hear like, oh, just fill most of your diet with vegetables because that feels hard. They'd much rather have their superfood latte and then

feel like they have a free pass to like eat whatever else they want. And I think that in truth, wellness is super simple, but it's also more frequent and regular than I think people would like it to be. I think the expensive stuff feels like it gives you permission to not actually have a holy well lifestyle. No one wants to hear e vegetables and go on a 30 minute walk. Right. Nobody wants to. And even though my dad is a psychologist and he's like, there's so many studies that point to exercise with depression and anxiety. And he's trying to prescribe it to his patients all the time. They're like, no, I'm not interested in that. Yeah. You know? And it's, it's sad. It was something hugely I thought about with my cookbook because I wanted my cookbook to be something that people could

cook from in like Iowa as well as they could in New York City. And so I issued all of the superfoody type stuff. But then I had this like, mental thing where I was like, oh my God, is it not trendy enough? Are people going to think I don't know about all this stuff? You know, does it not differentiate enough in those ways because it really is just like vegetables prepared interestingly, you know? Yeah. No, I think it's so important that people like you with that message exists because wellness can be a very exclusive kind of club.

And the thing is, is it shouldn't be because it just amounts to our bodies being able to function. Yeah. And our mind's being able to function. Yeah. And the thing is like, I don't like meditation, but meditation's free. Walk around the block's free. What do you like?

What's the stuff you, you, you. kind of do daily. For meditative practice or just for wellness? Just for, yeah, to feel like your best. I think one of the best things I do for myself is a couple times a week just have like whatever I want to eat. Like even if it's terrible. I don't care if it's McDonald's. I don't care if it's like, you know, like last night we went like delicious one of my most favorite noodle dishes ever at 10.30 p.m. You know? And like to me, yeah, sure, people might say like that's not wellness. And I'm like, that's wellness for my soul and my sanity. And I assure you that if all you do is monitor everything you do all the time, you will be a ball of stress and you will die at a

young age. I'm sorry. My like hungover McDonald's because I had two more whiskeys with my girlfriends and has having a great time, that is wellness just as much as a macho latte. I'm sorry it is. But my thing is like, how do I move my body every day? Whether it's a five-minute walk with my dog, an hour yoga class, not putting so much stress on what it is or how long it is or how many calories I burned or whatever. It's about practice of it. Taking care of my skin is important to me because I didn't do it for so many years. I was like a smoker and a tanning bed person for a long time. And so kind of reclaiming that and going, oh shit, we got work to do backwards on that.

And also just touching your face feels really good. Loving your face, looking in the mirror while you do it, really appreciating what you look like. I think for me also, you know, I'm not really a meditative person. So taking a bath or listening to music or listen to a podcast, like that's meditative for me. Exercise, of course. And I think really, like, the best wellness thing you can do is spend time with people that really give you energy. Do an actual inventory of your life of who are the people that bring you energy and who do you leave depleted and work on having 80% of your life be filled with the people that really bring you energy because that shit is much more toxic than any fast food. Do you have any recommendations for finding those people? Like, I think a lot of people might look at their lives and be like, well, my friends and stuff aren't giving me energy, but where are those great people that will fill me up? I have met so many people through Instagram.

Actually, so many great people. And not just because I have a following. This is even before I had a following. I would find really great girls through Instagram. How? Like, how does it go from, like, cool caption to, like, let hang out in person? in, you know. I would usually slide into their DMs or they would slide into mine and we'd end up kind of following each other's lives, which was really fun. I've made a lot of friends in the DMs.

I'll tell you that. And I've, you know, asked a lot of friends out on friend dates that I had never met before or that I was nervous about hanging out with. But I think it's less scary than you think it is, it's more about that initial message because everyone's looking for connection. I think the mistake, at least that I've told myself in the past, is like, oh, everybody else is super satisfied with all of their friends that they don't need me to come in there. Like, I'm the only one who's feeling a lack. If everyone really did an inventory of their relationships, they would find a lot of, a lot of places for new friendships.

I think a lot of people don't want to do that work, but they also assume like you that everyone is cool. Everyone is cool with their lives. I'm intruding. And the thing is, like, we have to stop believing that we're intruding by providing value to people's lives. Like, that's what we're doing or providing value to someone else. They might be providing value back, but that's what we're offering someone. And so if you had a $100 bill in your hand, you would never feel self-conscious about walking up to someone and saying, like, do you want this $100 bill? Right. So why do you feel self-conscious about your value. Because I think most people don't feel like they're $100 bill.

Yeah, exactly. So we've got to work on that first. Yeah, for sure. But truly, I've met more friends in the last two years, more female friends in last two years than I have in the last 10. I thought I was at my cap. I always had a lot of friends. And I thought I was at my relationship cap.

Turns out I wasn't. I think there's always space for good people. I think you have to kind of Marie Kondo that shit. and be like, what does not bring me joy? And, you know, that's hard, a lot of work. But it's worthy. I also find that, like, I'm having meetups. I'm trying to have one meetup a month with people.

And the goal isn't for them to meet me. It's for them to meet each other. But I'd say, like, show up to stuff. Show up to stuff alone, you know? And I know that that's, like, hard, scary. but it's the type of bravery that usually gets rewarded by something really good. I also think that people rarely ever say I'm looking for friends. You know, we try to really play it cool when we meet people.

You know, like talked with this in my podcast before, but someone wrote in was like, I, you know, I'll see girls that work out classes that I'll, like, chit chat with every time or whatever, but it never moves on from there. Like, it's always just like, okay, see you next week or whatever. And my advice is just saying, like, hey, I'm looking for some new friends. I'm looking to make a new friend. I actually think that's a really freeing thing about moving to a new city is because then you don't feel like embarrassed that you're looking for friends.

You feel like you have a reason that you can. And it is silly that we don't just give ourselves permission to have that reason any old time, you know? Because the thing is like relationships, we change too. Like, I mean, if we all had the same friends at 21 as we did at 25 as we did. as we did at 30, as we will at 35, like that would be a very boring life. Yeah. And so I think we're in this constant turnover of who reflects who you are right now. Because we're all changing constantly.

So who are the people that make your light shine brighter at this very moment because they share a similar one? Yeah. You know, and so it's like, how do you find those people? How do you keep those people? And also the people that do bring you a lot of energy, how do you pour more energy into those relationships. Yeah, I also think we're very prone to bring people into our lives and then take them

completely for granted, whether it's a romantic partner or a really good friend. And then we treat strangers better than we treat the people that we are trying to build things with. Because you're like, they're in my pocket. Yeah. You know, they're in my life already. I don't have to do the work of it. But in reality, I think when we do the work with people that already exist, that kind of shows

that we have the responsibility and the case. to have more friendships. Yeah. Like, you know, you've been good with what you had. Here's more, you know. Yeah, I love that. I have like a million more questions that I could ask you. But in the interest of time, I'm going to get into my questions that I ask everybody.

That was a puppy noise. That was the puppy yawn. He's like, I'm sleepy. Let's wrap this up. I'm sitting on the table now. All right. Have you ever been anywhere in the world where you're like, people really got this right in terms of living a happy, healthy life. And if so, where was it? I found that Copenhagen was one of those

places, but it was not a very diverse community, which to me, it's much easier to be very content with life when you all live the same life. There's no like push Paul. Exactly. But I did, I did find that there was a great work life balance, great design, kind of like a very simple way of living. Yeah. That I appreciate it. Have you ever found some more that has that diverse, Like, do you think the diversity creates the dissonance generally? Yeah. Yeah. I think when you get a lot of different people that are raised a lot of different ways, it creates

buzz. It creates noise. But I think that's also, like, very powerful because we should be confronted with other ideas. That's, like, being human, you know? And that's, like, the beauty of it. I just think Copenhagen was a very idyllic place, you know? But I started to realize on like second day, I was like, I'm the most ethnic person here.

Right. You know, like everyone is beautiful and blonde. Yeah. And like, and it's no fault of there. And I don't think it's because they're closed off community. I just think it's because of where it is and kind of the opportunities and all that. Yeah. What's the best way to spend 20 minutes every day?

Skin care. For sure. Full 20 minutes on it? I just slap some moisturizer. No. Okay. Do the whole thing. Aguasha, which I love for my jaw.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. But also just like spending 20 minutes, literally appreciating the thing that, like, serves you all day, your body. It's like amazing. It's an amazing thing. Even my favorite hot tip on the podcast, my favorite tool is this ice roller from Amazon. It's $11. I have that.

It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. It feels so good. It instantly makes me feel calm. I love it. I love that thing. Yeah, I'll link that in the show notes because it is an amazing way to spend $11. Oh, yeah. And I do it for like 10 minutes sometimes. Yeah. I put like a face oil. I mean, I don't like leave it on one place for 10 minutes.

But like I'll take like little tiny 30 second breaks and I'll go back to rolling. And like I do it while I watch a show or like while I'm listening to music or something. And it's so relaxing. Okay. Well, ice roller aside. What is one purchase that made you healthier or happier? Hmm. One purchase that's made me healthy or happier. Probably, honestly, my kitchen table that we're sitting at right now. I have a dining room table and this dining room table seats 12 when it's extended. And to me, it was always my dream in New York City to have a big table where I could feed lots of people. That was my dream, too. I was like, we didn't go to so many apartments because they didn't have room for a dining room table. And we can do about eight now, which is awesome. Great for New York, though. Great for New York.

But dinner parties are my favorite, favorite thing in the world. Same. And I think they bring me so much value like that is, that makes me to feed people, to sit down, to talk, to have room for people. Well, and that style of conversation where it's bouncing around to different people and people are eating and drink is just my favorite versus like, I don't know, going to a bar and it's like loud and you're like shouting. And then you're like, what? And they're like shouting back. Or even like dinner for eight at a restaurant is such a different feeling. It's such a different feeling.

So, yeah, this table was probably the best thing I ever purchased for my own happiness. I love that. What is one big mistake you've made in your life and one thing you really got right? One huge mistake, I think, was on my journey to wellness, really thinking that finding a certain weight or a certain size was going to make me happy. It was a big failure on my part because I got there and I really felt like more bummed than I ever had about my body. Because you did, you lost, we haven't talked about it much because I feel like you've talked about it much because I feel like you've talked. about it so much publicly, but you lost quite a bit of weight. Yeah, I lost 70 pounds. And then at my thinnest, I thought I would just be, you know, so so elated. And I was the most self-conscious I'd

ever been. You know, I was more self-conscious than I was at 225 pounds. Why do you think that it? Because when you're so focused and obsessed on something, you're never happy with it. It's like a dog with a bone, you know, it's like, you can't let it go. You're not happy until you get addicted to the work of it. I got addicted to the work of my body. And the thing is like, you will always have things that you don't like. And the thing is, is like when you're constantly focused on losing weight or changing yourself,

you think that that next thing is going to be the thing that makes you happy. And then you get more bummed in the end because the thing that you thought was going to make you happy doesn't make you happy. So you're bummed about not being happy. It's a terrible cycle. And so my biggest failure was just believing the lie

that being physically in a place makes you mentally in a place. And then something I think I've won is that I get messages from people from high school and from college, all different stages in my life. And they tell me that I'm the same, you know. And I think that's my greatest achievement is like the consistency of myself and just owning whatever stage I'm at. And the fact that people that have known me for 20 years are like, you're exactly the same person as you were. That makes me feel like I did something right. Yeah, that's awesome.

What does success look like to you? Being able to be generous with my money and my resources, number one. I think the ability to give things away is hugely what success looks like. If I, like, died tomorrow, I'd feel successful. Was there a point where that tip for you in your life? You know, I think some of the first messages I ever got on Instagram that people were like, I literally have changed my way of thinking because of you. Not that I'm trying to be out there brainwashing people,

but if I can make someone consider themselves more in a like a positive way, like I did my job. You know, I feel successful in the sense that, you know, people will, everything from, you know, I stood up for myself in my, in an abusive relationship to I wore a sports braided workout for the first time without feeling self-conscious, or I did a huge presentation at work in a room full of men and I felt confident in myself or whatever it is. Like, that is success for me is knowing that the thing that you're doing, that you're

spending so much time and effort and money and you're paying other people to help you make this thing that actually works. You know, it's like, it works. You know, this way of thinking works for people. And that makes me really happy. So, yeah, if I died tomorrow, I'd feel really pretty comfortable. I don't want to die. I don't want to, I'm not saying.

You don't want you to die. No, I don't want to die. But if I did, I would be able to say, like, okay, I lived a successful life. I'm good. I mean, I'd like to be the millennial Oprah, but we'll see. Is that the goal for the shenay? That's like if I could bottle my brand. What does that look like?

Like, is that a TV show? Yeah. So it's TV, it's a book. It's many books, hopefully. But I really want to create more of a platform and a media company that elevates lots of women's voices. I think that's one thing that Oprah has done pretty well is that she's not only been able to highlight her own voice, but she's been able to empower so many to do the same. Yeah, I love that. People at home watching her or reading along or listening to her podcast, but also, you know, other people that are trying to build something.

something for themselves. Well, and her show initially was more of like a storytelling format of a show where she's telling other people's stories. Which I thought was like amazing. And the fact that she's used her influence for good pretty consistently. And she's kind of really done the uphill work of being a black woman at that time, doing what she was doing, building, you know, a huge company that is unparalleled to anything else that exist in media is pretty amazing.

Well, and even subtle way she redefines things like she's not married and she doesn't need to be married and she doesn't apologize for not being married and she doesn't have children. And I think those are tiny subversions that send to use messages. Totally. And the thing is, is anyone that I've ever met that either has worked with Oprah or has been around Oprah, they always say that there is a energy and a light around her that is not from wealth or success. It's literally from her and it radiates. And that's like the reason that she's been successful. So for me, it's like, you know, she's done so many amazing things, but to have people

that are just like being around her, like is inspiring enough. Like that's, who wouldn't want that? I feel very inspired by this conversation today. Oh, me too. This was so great. I actually forgot we were recording for a second, which is always a good sign. A good side. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me to your lovely apartment and chatting. Thank you. Bye guys. I wish you guys could have been there with us when we were recording because her cute, cute puppy dingo buttons who you heard us talking about in the episode and you probably heard him playing a little bit at the end there. He is so cute and so adorable. And I didn't even, I wanted to interview her because she was saying such interesting things.

But I also really just wanted to like go on the floor and cuddle the puppy the whole time because he was adorable. Anyway, I hope you felt like you were there even though you weren't necessarily there in person. You were there in spirit. I felt you there very much. And I hope you love the episode. If you did love it, if you could toss a rating or a view on iTunes, I'd massively appreciate it. And make sure you're subscribed because I have some really awesome stuff coming up. And I can't wait to see you guys in a future episode.

Have a great day. I love you guys. The mattress that you sleep on is one of the highest exposures that you have. Like, if it's off gassing, you're breathing that in for basically a third of your life. And most conventional mattresses are loaded with synthetic foams, flame retardants, microplastics, and more. Plus, if it's not comfy, you're going to be tossing and turning, you're going to be really hot, and sleep is the foundation of health. It is so important. Because of all of this, if I were not going to invest in any other part of my house, no other things in my house, I would invest in my mattress.

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