The Liz Moody Podcast - Genius Secrets To Make Hosting Fun And Easy with What’s Gaby Cooking

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Learn the secrets to stress-free hosting, including how to host on a budget thanks to Trader Joe’s, in this conversation with Gaby Dalkin, just in time for your holiday parties!  As a private chef, Gaby Dalkin learned how to prepare food for parties quickly, including preparing for the unexpected. She learned how to stretch food when more people are coming than expected, how to create the perfect atmosphere and menus, and how to make sure that the environment stays peaceful and welcoming. 00:49 Becoming A Good Host 2:39 The Secret To Perfect Cheeseboards 5:13 Hosting On A Budget 7:40 Reducing Stress 9:06 Host Gifts - Necessary Or Not? 14:07 Curating The Perfect Group Of People 16:30 Hosting Hot Takes 20:56 Make The Most Memorable Event 22:30 No Social Media Allowed For more from Gaby, you can find her on Instagram @whatsgabycookin or online at www.whatsgabycooking.com and www.dalkinandco.com. You can purchase her newest book, What's Gaby Cooking: Grilling All the Things, where books are sold. Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order Liz’s new book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. Connect with Liz on Instagram @lizmoody, or subscribe to her newsletter by visiting www.lizmoody.com. If you like this episode, check out The Secret To Finding Your People, Having More Meaningful Gatherings, & Creating A Community You Love With Priya Parker. This episode is sponsored by: Seed: go to seed.com/lizmoody and use code LIZMOODY for 25% off your first month. Shopify: sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/lizm. Brain.fm: visit brain.fm/LIZMOODY to try it completely free for 30 days. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast.  This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. The Liz Moody Podcast Episode 281. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gabby, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me back. So what are some of the things that nobody talks about that makes somebody a good host? My cooking, I think, by my nature, is just to keep it simple. That's what makes a great host. If I don't have to be in the kitchen with you, we're in a good place. How are we impressing somebody while also not stressing? I want them to overstay their welcome so then I can just go put out my pajamas and kick them out.

That's how comfortable they are. And I do that frequently. When you walk in and someone asks you what you want to drink and there's great music, you're like automatically at ease. My hot take on entertaining is if people are overstaying they're welcome, I will just go to bed. Hello, friends, and welcome to the Liz Moody podcast, where every week we are sharing real science, real stories, and realistic tools that actually level up every part of your life. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a best-selling author and longtime journalist. Today we're getting into a very necessary topic for this time of the year, hosting. I am joined by my friend Gabby Dolkin, aka What's Gabby Cooking?

and I'm sure many, many of you know her. She's the writer of so many New York Times best-selling cookbooks. Her most recent is called grilling all the things. It is packed with delicious recipes. She's also the co-founder of Dalcan and Co. Alongside her husband, Thomas, they make some incredible spices and seasonings to make every meal as tasty as possible.

Gabby is the queen of not only making hosting fun for your guests, but fun and not stressful at all for yourself. She gives so many, great tips in this episode, but my absolute favorite, a massive, underutilized, totally free way to elevate every single party, regardless of how much space or money or how many guests you have. It's towards the end of the episode. So make sure that you listen all the way through so you do not miss it. Gopi, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me back. I'm so excited to have you back. You have said to date the most memorable thing that anybody's ever said to me on the podcast.

Really? Yeah. Do you remember what it was? Something about anxiety. Yeah, it was. It was 100%. And it's messed me up for years. I'm sorry. You were like, I don't think I've had anxiety for a single day in my life. And I said, I don't think I've not had anxiety. I actually remember the zigzag moment. For a single day in my life. And it's like just one of those conversations that's hooked into my brain and I haven't been able to unhook it.

Does that sentence still hold true for you? Yes. Okay, great. Perfect. Then you're the perfect person to talk us through. stress-free hosting. That's what this episode is going to be all about. So what are some of the things that nobody talks about that makes somebody a good host? Oh my gosh. Okay. So I was a private chef 100 years ago previous to going full-time with what's got to be cooking. And I would go to my client's homes.

I cook for one client in Malibu for like three or four years and one client in Beverly Hills for a year. And I would go intentionally to cook for eight people. And then they'd be like 27 extra humans are coming, which is alarming when you're a new chef and you're like, holy shit, I didn't shock. for that. I don't have enough protein. I don't have enough avocados, whatever it is. And you quickly learn how to like stretch things and adapt. So I think the key to being a really great host is a having a stocked pantry and fridge. So you can, you know, pivot at a moment's notice and prep. Take the day before. Prep as much as you can. So then you get to actually enjoy your party as well rather than just like being behind the stove while your friends are out and about drinking and

laughing and giggling. And you're like, fuck, I'm stuck in the kitchen. Okay. So what are we keeping in our refrigerator and our pantry. I keep pasta and rice in there all the time because if all of a sudden a bunch of kids show up, you can easily make an incredible pasta with 15 minutes notice. I don't necessarily keep protein or anything stocked in my fridge or freezer. If all of a sudden a lot of people show up, I'm just going to really thinly slice whatever steak I bought. And I always love to have things on hand to make a big, beautiful salad because that's just like a really pretty colorful moment that people love. And then I'm into apps. I'm into big cheeseboards and charcutory and crudette. and dips, like having stuff in your pantry to make hummus or in your fridge to make a quick tiziki,

something along those lines are ways that I'm ready in case more people show up than I'm anticipating. So I have my number one tip for making an excellent cheeseboard, and then I want to hear yours. Okay. My number one tip is you just keep adding until there's literally just like no visible room. Like you put your S of crackers or whatever, then like your grapes and your cheeses. And then you're just like stuff, stuff in in every available space. And then it looks really luxurious by the end. You don't want to see the board.

You don't want to say the board, even the teeniest hideous space. No. No. And when people eat it, I like refill it. I don't want to see it. I want more pistachios, more hummus, whatever it is, extra kind of cheese. My favorite part of a cheese board is just the variety. So I will always do probably a minimum of five cheeses and three to four kinds of meats, salamis and stuff along prosciutto, all that, just because it's colorful and there's different textures and flavors and all that kind of stuff.

What if you love hosting, but you hate cooking? Oh, full support. You do a non-cooking meal. You do shakruiter. You do cheese. You do wine. You do like chips and guacamole and dips and stuff like that that you can, A, buy from the store if you really want to or prep the day ahead of time. And that's it.

It's just like a heavy appetizer party. And then what about drinks? What are we doing for drinks? I'm into a batch cocktail. Like you got to do something you can make ahead of time. We do like a sangria or a mold wine or something along those lines that you can prep the day before. Or a DIY bar. We'll put out all the like whiskey and the tequila and mixers and all that.

and let people DIY their own adventure. So Thomas isn't making Manhattan's for an hour. Has your party hosting changed at all as dietary restrictions to become more common and as drinking less has become more common? Drinking less for sure. We have tons of non-alcoholic options all the time. We just have all sorts of different sparkling beverages on time, not necessarily alcoholic sparkling beverages, but just like fun kind of spritzy, non-alcoholic things. cooking-wise, I would say my cooking is very gluten-free adjacent. Unless I'm making a pasta, everything's naturally gluten-free. But no, I don't do any sort of particular baking that's like no eggs or anything like that.

Do you think it's fair if I have dietary preferences to alert the host ahead of time? For sure. I think you absolutely should tell someone that one of my girlfriends was pregnant recently and she had the baby and she came over for dinner and didn't tell me anything. And she walked in the door and she's like, I'm not eating eggs. I'm not eating dairy. I'm not eating this. I'm not eating that. And I was like, well, you can order something from Goop Kitchen because that's not what I made. So I think telling someone a day ahead of time, totally fair game. I think a lot of hosts just gravitate towards cooking things that are naturally allergy friendly. They're not using things with eggs or they're

having like fresh fruit for dessert. I like to have variety. So people feel like there's a little something for everyone. Okay, so if somebody's listening down there like, okay, variety, check, all these types of alcohols and boxtiles, check, cheese board with five types of cheeses. Check, how much money am I spent it? Well, listen, it's not cheap to host anymore. If you're trying to do this on a budget, I would do it a little differently. I wouldn't do cheese and charcutory. I would go more crudete and dips. Cheeses are just so expensive as are charcutory, like, slommies and all that. If you do it strategically and you're like, this is my menu, I'm going to make these vegetables work for

the cruderte and then I'm going to work in my food. into the main dish as well and you're like, we're going to do a red, we're going to do a sparkling wine, and then we're going to have two non-alcoholic options. That's it. That's all you have to have. We've just spent so much time building out our bar. We have an obscene amount of drinks of all sorts. So if I added up how much all that was, I would probably be alarmed at it. But because we've been collecting all these things for 12 years at this point, my husband's a total. He's very into that world. So I don't think about it. Do you have any tips for like Jogine Trader Joe's food? Yes. Yes, I did that heavily when I was a private chef. Here's the deal. Trader Joe's is amazing. Hummus,

buy their store-bought hummus, drizzle it with your own olive oil, sprinkle it with paprika or sumac. You'll look like a rock star. They have amazing cheeses and charcuttery that are not crazy expensive. They have not played into the inflation that other grocery stores have played into, in my opinion. I used to buy the spinach artichoke debt from their freezer section all the time and keep it stocked when I was a chef from Jessica Simpson. I had like 30 of them in the freezer in the garage. So if 30 people showed up for a game, I had spinach out of choke dip in 20 minutes. Like I just had to thaw it basically in the oven. You'd take it out of the package, put it in there, and it's a good spinach dip. It's better than many of the homemade ones that I've made.

Strategically shopping at Trader Joe's, you can bang out a party for less than $100 for like 15 to 20 people. What do you think makes a bad host? Someone's stressed. I don't want to go over to someone's house and be stressed out. Listen, if someone could invite me over and make me Annie's mac and cheese and I'd be thrilled I just want to be in like a very calm environment where no one's running around being crazy because then I feel like I have to help. That's what makes a great host. If I don't have to be in the kitchen with you, we're in a good place.

I had a podcast guest on though, and she said that she thinks one of the secrets to great hosting is giving your guest assignments because they want to help. Do you agree with that? I think a lot of people are interested in A, learning and B, contributing in some ways. When we have a sit-down dinner party, I let people set the table. I'll have them pour waters and put all that out. there. I am a control freak though, so like I don't want to assign cooking tasks to people. It's just not my vibe. Okay, so are you doing anything to reduce stress other than trying to plan as much

ahead of time? What if you're caught off guard and you weren't able to make that plan? My cooking, I think by my nature, is just to keep it simple. Like, I'm never cooking anything overly complicated or with 37 different ingredients. You know that saying it's, I think it's kiss. Keep it simple, stupid or whatever that is we learned when we were in like seventh grade. I apply that to hosting. Like if I'm making five things, it's just like a marinated steak that I marinated the day before. It's really amazing pasta that only has three or four ingredients. And I will buy something to give myself a little shortcut. I do prep a lot. I think that's because I was a private chef and I've thought through this for clients for 15 years. Private chef TikTok is so huge.

Oh my God. It's massive. If you want to get an audience, you need to be a private chef. Go cook for someone Fab and then two years later you're retiring that private chef hat. Do you regret that it didn't exist when you were doing it for celebrities? No, because I don't know how you're filming and cooking and talking to everyone walking into the kitchen that wants to talk to you. And then you go home and edit. That is just far too much work for me. So no, I'm thrilled it didn't exist when I was a private chef.

But it's fun to watch it. And I'm like, oh, my God, it's so much manual labor. You forget how much manual labor it is to cook for someone at that scale. makes a good host gift and are those still expected? We launched Dawkin & Co. last year, so I'm still very into the hostess gift world because I like to bring something useful like a set of seasonings, like olive oils, like amazing salts. If I told you how many candles I had in my drawer from people who have brought me candles over the years, it's alarming. Like I've got 75 candles. I don't know if I'm ever going to use them. So I like to bring something. If it's for a dinner party, obviously that person

likes to cook. I'm bringing something that they can use the next time they're having a party or something like that. I like it to be edible. Yeah, I do too. I think the best host gifts I've ever gotten were like seasoning or olive oil is a really nice olive oil. I think you can't go wrong with that. A really fancy olive oil is not something you're going to splurge. I don't splurge on that for myself all the time. But when you finish a dish with it, you're like, this is, I should be doing this. This is worth it. Yeah. This is so good. Yeah. 100% worth it. So one of the things that I think we're circling around is we're like, don't stress. But when we're hosting somebody, we want to impress them. So how are we impressing somebody while also not stressing?

Like that's why people aren't serving you. And he's mac and cheese is because they want to impress you. No, I think people are terrified to cook for me. You specifically. But the greater you in general, when you're having somebody over to your house, you're trying to portray a certain vibe. Sure. I agree.

I think letting people into your home and having them experience a wonderful couple hours around your table with good conversation, good company, and good food is the most magical gift you can give to somebody. And it's certainly my love language. That's how I tell people I care. I haven't bought my best friend a birthday present ever, but I will make her like a magical meal every year for her birthday. Oh, I love. Does she get to pick the menu? No. I mean, maybe I've asked her if she wants like Italian. I'll go all out. Like I'll go buy an incredible steak. I'll buy her fresh pasta and I'll make her something amazing, but that's how I show my love. And so I get it. That's what you want to impress upon people when they come over. But I don't think that means

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slash Liz Moody. Use code Liz Moody to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. What do you think people are really clocking versus what we think they're clocking? You know how there's the idea of like, oh, they're going to run in and look under your bed and be like, oh, no, you didn't clean under there. And like, obviously nobody does that, but we're cleaning as if they're going to. So what do you think people are actually noticing versus what we think they're noticing. Oh, God, that's such a good question. When I walk into someone's kitchen and they're cooking for me or we're cooking together, I think I clock how organized everything is. So you would be judging me. No, I wouldn't, but I would just be, I'm a clean as you go kind of girl. So like,

if you walk in my house, there's certainly a mess, but it's an organized mess. Like things are already in the sink. One dishwasher's rolling. Things are mostly, mostly not totally discombobulated. Uh-huh. That's not the case for me. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't. know if anyone's clocking it. I just think people are so excited to hang on with their friends and be in someone else's environment and have that moment together. That's the most important thing to me. I don't really clock how messy it is. I'll clock how good something smells. Like if it smells weird, I'll clock that. I don't clock decor in any way. And I would encourage people unless you're getting a lot of joy out of decorating to not do that. Yeah. But I will notice if there's fresh flowers.

I love a bouquet of fresh flowers. I think that feels really nice. Do you bring fresh flowers when you go to someone's house? I will, but only if I'm bringing them in a vessel of some sort. That's so nice of you. Because when you don't bring it in a vessel, you stop cooking and you're like, I have to find a vase. And it can be as easy as like a mason jar. Like I love like wildflowers in a mason jar. I think it's so classy and so wonderful. But yeah, I think there's a lot of things that we worry about when hosting that people aren't really noticing at all. Correct. I'm with you 100% on decor. I want a plate. I want a napkin. I want silverware. I don't need, what are the things? A charger. like I don't need a tablecloth.

Like that's too fancy for me. I'm not that girl. I feel like that stuff is going away more too. Don't you think generationally? Yeah, because we don't have room for that. There's no room to store all that. In our tiny houses. Yeah, there's quite literally no storage for chargers.

That's fair. Okay, so you're an amazing cook, obviously, but you're also just like one of the most kind of affable, buoyant people that I've ever met. So how are we curating the vibe at a party? Oh, okay. That's an interesting question. Well, I lean on my husband for music.

Thomas, if we're doing an Italian dinner party, he'll make an Italian playlist with like Italian DJs and all that kind of stuff. Oh, I love that. I also feel like you could use Spotify. For sure. I love the idea of theming the playlist and just like searching on Spotify, Italian dinner party. 100%. That's cool. Mekino's for the summer, you do a Mekanos Beach Club. Whatever it is. Like, we're very into that because I feel like when you walk in and someone asks you what you want to drink and there's great music, you're like automatically at ease. So that is two non-negotiables for us is having the bar set up and having some music going. And then I'm really into curating just a great group of people and people who don't expect to see together.

People from different groups of friendships. I like mixing and matching and being like, this person's going to love this person because they're both working on these similar projects, whatever it is. It makes for interesting conversation. So you're not just talking to the same people at the same person's house all the time. How do you get the interesting conversations flowing? I like to ask inappropriate and personal questions. Like what? Well, help us out. I'm trying to think of something inappropriate.

Give me a second. But like for I love to talk about travel. Where's your favorite place to go? What's one place you've never been to? I'm not afraid to bring up politics, given the current climate. I'll bring that up. Politics is something that makes people really nervous will, like, ruin a party. Yeah.

What makes you not nervous that somebody will like say the wrong thing or not share an opinion? And then the whole party will kind of like screech to a halt. A, I'm not afraid to debate. And it's very obvious who I vote for. And if that's not who you're voting for, you are entitled to that opinion. But back it up. Tell me why. So like if we can have an interesting conversation upon that, I'm all ears. Let's learn about each other a little bit more. I don't think everyone has that same attitude towards politics. I get it. Like it would be scary. I also have friends who are mostly similarly politically aligned as I am. And some of them have some inside gossip. So like I like I like I like I like I like I'm not scared to bring up other things like fertility. I think that's a really hot topic in today's world. And we've been through the ringer with it. So like I'll bring that up. My house is a very safe place. So whatever.

it is people are going through, like, let's talk about it. I love that, though, because there's so much science behind how vulnerability makes us feel closer to other people. So even thinking about hosting is not an opportunity to impress other people, but an opportunity to create a safe space for people to be vulnerable. That's going to be the thing that's going to make them subconsciously like you more, more than being impressed. And you're going to walk away from that dinner party being like, oh, my God, A, I met four new couple friends or four new girlfriends or whatever it is. And we talked about things that you're not normally talking. And we talked about things that you're not normally talking about. Like, I think you leave with your cup so full. And you know that thing,

what are those memes that are like, if you leave a party and you're feeling like, like, don't hang out with those people again. Or like you want to be around sunshine. Like, I want people to leave my house and be like, that was the best four hours. I want them to overstay their welcome so then I can just go put out my pajamas and kick them out. That's how comfortable they are. And I do that frequently. I love that. Do you have any controversial hosting hot takes? I mean, my hot take on entertainment. is if people are overstaying they're welcome, I will just go to bed. Like while they're in your house.

Yeah, Thomas can close up shop. Like, I'm tired. Like, we have a lot of friends who are no kids and, like, they don't have to wake up early in the morning. And they stay till like 12, 12, 30. And I'm like, I have to get up in six and a half hours. And I will just buy. Talk to me about the kids element with hosting.

Are we inviting kids into the fold? Is there a separate area for them? Is there separate food for them? What's the vibe? Great question. If I'm hosting a dinner party, you are invited over after. after poppy's asleep. I don't want kids running around. It's too loud. It's too messy. If I'm hosting during the day, everyone's welcome. But then we're outside. We're destroying the backyard

rather than my kitchen. So is your tip if you're going to have kids, make sure there's somewhere for them to kind of like run freely? And they can go inside. But if I'm hosting kids, parties over by seven. If I'm not hosting kids, the party doesn't start until 738. There are two different time zones, in my opinion. Is there anything else that makes a party really fun for kids? Some of my friends are extra and like hire magicians when they have the kids over and like weird shit like that. I did that for my bookwatch party because I'm a child. Well, but this guy in L.A. His name's Mr. Fun. You won't see your child for four hours because they'll just be giggling in a corner with 18 other children and laughing at these magic tricks. It's the best money you'll ever

spend in your entire life. Love that. Okay. So that's the luxury version. What's the budget version to make kids happy. Activities. Coloring, paint, all that kind of stuff. Throw it on a table, throw it outside with like a drop cloth under it and let them go to town. I think that's really nice. What are your thoughts on themes and activities for adult parties? All my themes are centered around food. So whether it's like, what was that show? Drops of God. Did you watch Drops of God? Oh my God. So Drops of God is all about this bigillionaire who dies and he has his son or his daughter or someone and his protege vying for who gets the inheritance, which is in wine. And there are all these different wines from all these different parts of the world. And it inspired me to start having wine themed dinner parties. So that's what I've

done the last year, minus being pregnant for part of that, is have themes around wine from Spain, different parts of Italy, stuff like that. That's the train of thought I've been on as far as themes go. I love that. Because then you can curate your menu around that. You do paella and you're in Spain and blah, blah, or you're doing something Italian, whatever. I love a theme because I love some sort of structure and intentionality. Like, I feel like saying, I put a little bit of thought into this. It's not just a normal time coming over. It goes a long way for me.

But I'm always struggling with like, what should the theme be? Like, I like a theme that's going to give you something to talk about. An activity or something. Yeah. And I'm like, I've done the murder mystery. I've done like a recess theme where it's like kids themed, which is really fun. Oh, these are creative. These are way more creative than my themes.

I just like, I love structured, but I also love having like conversation starters at each place because I think that sometimes people want to have a conversation or like putting a little pile of conversation starts when you walk in the door and saying to take one and talk to a random person. Yeah. Because I feel like people want to have those vulnerable conversations you're talking about, but it can be hard to get there. We did a dinner party a couple weeks ago and there was a question pot in the middle. But it was a question about like Taylor Swift or Beyonce that led to other conversations, but it was just enough to open it up so people felt really safe. Yeah. And you can like say, I don't think we should be pitting these two powerful women against each other. And then that

really shows people a little bit about your personality. Yeah. I mean, listen, nobody said that, but that would have been a baller answer. And I will use that next time something like that comes up. But it opened up a conversation to talk about their favorite concert or who puts on the coolest show or whatever it is. That kind of stuff opens it up for just a bigger conversation. So I agree with you on the conversation starters. Yeah. People only need like the littlest bit. And they're looking for an excuse. So sometimes we think, oh, if we give them that, they're going to think it's lame, whatever, but it's like, no, they're looking for something. I think people inherently love talking about themselves and they love sharing an opinion. So like if you open the door for it, you won't have to

think about making conversation for the rest of the night because you just let this beautiful conversation unfold on its own. Okay, can you just end us with one time that you feel like you really killed it hosting and what is something specific that we can take away from that experience? Oh my gosh. I love hosting. I think my most memorable event that I've hosted in the last calendar year was probably my book launch party back in May. I like curated the menu from the book. I invited all my friends and family over. I gave everyone a signed book. But that was it. Then it was just like everybody enjoy themselves. I had multiple little seating areas wherever could chill and hang. And I think it was just a really big. beautiful evening of no stress. I said no social media. No one post anything. Just like come over and enjoy. So that's my takeaway. Just come and enjoy yourself. Don't worry about anything else. Wait, I have a few things there. Okay. One, printing a menu, such an underutilized tip, but it feels so fancy. Like, just go to your printer. Yeah. At your house. At your house.

At your house. Yeah. Yeah. Like do something on Canva if you're feeling really fancy. I did an itinerary. I just had girlfriends in town last weekend. And I made us like an it area on Canva. It took me probably 10 minutes. And I gave it to them when they arrived and it just felt so extra special. Yeah. So I feel like, go on Canva, do a menu, instantly elevates things and costs next to nothing. Right. The other thing I like that you said was little seating areas. I do think having different points of congregation is something that's worth thinking about. I lived in a teeny tiny apartment in New York. And we would still have like, okay, here's our little kitchen seating area. Here's our little couch seating area. Yeah. So not everyone's huddled around the stove or the

bar. You're spreading them out so then people have to move about and talk to different people and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And then the last thing that you said that I liked is you basically did have a hot take, which is no social media. I'm big into the no posting thing. Okay. Do you ask your guest that ahead of time? Yeah. And with the idea just to make it so everybody can feel really comfortable being present. Yeah. And like you're not worried about pictures on your phone because we're so obsessed with our phones. I'm guilty of it too. I'm on my phone all the time. And if I'm somewhere beautiful, I'm like, I have to take these pictures. But if you just leave it in your bag or you, you're not. You you leave it in your back pocket or your car, wherever it is. You are so much more present. I've been doing this for the last like four or five months. It's a great gift. I think you're giving to people. I think that is such a good tip. And I encourage anybody listening to utilize it. Thrilled, I ended with that. If we were going to buy just one of your books to host, which one would you recommend? And maybe call it a recipe that you're like, if you're the laziest cook in the world, but you want to impress people, even though we're not trying to impress people, we're trying to create a safe space vulnerability. This is what you should make. I think my Take It Easy cookbook, which is not this most

recent one. The most recent one was grilling. Take It Easy was one before is just like top-notch recipes. Nothing in it is complicated, hence the title, Take It Easy, but the chicken parmesan meatballs will win awards. And they're not complicated. You could prep them the day before and that would be my go-to. And it's like the number one recipe on my website. So people are into them. Love it. Thank you, Gavi. Thank you. If you loved this episode, you will love the episode I recently did where I gave science. science-back tips that I have learned from thousands of hours of conversations to actually make small talk like at parties or at work, enjoyable and memorable. I am an introvert myself, so I know these tips work, whether you would rather be home with a book or not. I will link it for you in the show note so you can go and listen next. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is

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