The Liz Moody Podcast - Get Over Your Ex, Let Go Of Life Timelines, And Actually Love Yourself with Claire Byrne

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

My guest today is Claire Byrne, or Claire the Heartbreak Coach, a celebrity heartbreak coach who serves as Poosh’s resident expert. On this episode, she shares: pragmatic steps to actually love yourself how to move through feelings of hopelessness or unfairness around your ircumstances how to let go of the pressure of life timelines how to get over regret about bad choices in the past how to draw boundaries with people in your life asking about your relationship status the ideal level of contact to have with your ex how to get closure (without needing anything from the other person) how long to give yourself to grieve before moving on how to not feel bad after being ghosted how to get over dating app fatigue and despair an actual exercise to let go of the one that got away the best way to support a friend going through a breakup how to know when to break up with someone the worst things people do post break up why having your heartbroken can be a good thing (yes, really!) Claire has generously agreed to give away 5 copies of her amazing course. To enter, just follow @clairetheheartbreakcoach and @lizmoody on Instagram, and then comment one thing you loved or learned in the episode on any recent post. This episode is sponsored by AG1 by Athletic Greens. Visit athleticgreens.com/healthiertogether and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today This episode is sponsored by Paleovalley. Head over to paleovalley.com and use the code LIZM for 15% off. This episode is sponsored by Cymbiotika. Get 15% off using code LIZ on cymbiotika.com. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a best-selling author and long-time journalist. This podcast is all about helping you live your healthiest, happiest life, whether we're sharing the real secret to getting in shape, talking about transcending childhood trauma, or learning how to support our immune health. And yes, those are all real episodes, so if any of those topics sound good to you, scroll on back in the archives. If you have ever had your heartbroken or you have an ex that you can't quite

get over, or if you want to support a friend going through a breakup. Today's episode is for you. My guest today is Claire Byrne, a celebrity heartbreak coach who serves as Pooch's resident expert. I actually found Claire through a friend who took her program and absolutely raved about her work, and I am so excited to bring her wisdom to you all here today. I'm so hopeful that this will help anybody dealing with personal heartbreak, but there's also just a lot of wonderful thoughts about life timelines and self-love and all of the things that heartbreak teaches us. We get into pragmatic steps to actually love yourself. How to move through feelings of hopelessness or unfairness around your life timeline and

circumstances. How to get over-regret about bad choices in the past. How to get closure without needing anything from the other person involved. The best way to support a friend going through a breakup. How to know when to break up with someone. The worst things that people do post-exam. break up, why having your heartbroken can be a good thing, yes, really, and so much more. Make sure to stay tuned till the end of the episode because Claire has agreed to a wildly generous

giveaway, so you will definitely want all of the details on how to enter. And of course, both of us would love to hear what resonates as you're listening, what you love or hate or any thoughts that you have. So please screenshot and tag us both on Instagram. I am at Liz Moody and Claire is at Claire, the heartbreak coach, and Claire is spelled C-L-A-I-R-E. Okay, I am so excited. Let's heal our lovely hearts. What's the goal of a heartbreak coach? Is it to feel better?

Is it to find a new person? Is it something else entirely? I think the goal for healing heartbreak, what I guide my clients towards, there's really three parts. There's learning how to heal your heart and then really learning how to. And I know that this is so cliche to say in the world. wellness world, but I kept hearing this over and over again, you need to fall in love with you before you're going to find someone else who's going to fall in love with you. And I got so

frustrated with that because I was like, yeah, I get it, but how? How do I do that? And then once they start loving themselves, then let's create space to find your someone better so you can really heal, learn and grow from the heartbreak, but then really learn, again, cliche, but to date yourself for a period of time, to really enjoy just waking up with your own company and not feeling like there's some major void in your life because I think that that's a really hard, it's not a great place to date from when you're looking for someone to fill that spot. So ultimately healing heartbreak is really just to, it's really to not just heal your heart over the loss of the partner, but also heal your heart over your relationship with yourself because there's always something to learn

from that heartbreak about you, which is how you attracted that person in that situation in the first place. That makes a ton of sense. I have to ask, I'm a person in a happy relationship, but I still want to know how I learned to love myself. What are we teaching people here? It really varies person to person. I personally was an actress out of the womb, acted in New York and L.A. throughout my 20s into my 30s. And I never felt like I was good enough.

I wasn't thin enough. I wasn't pretty enough. I wasn't talented enough. I wasn't managing my money well enough. Like everything was just coming from this place of not enough. And then all the drama not just created in my acting life. was bleeding into then my relationship life, looking for my partner to fill that enoughness cup. So that's really where I start, because a lot of women come into my program, Liz,

and they're like, oh, wait, no, because it's stop wanting them back and find someone better. I've done all the healing my heart over the X, and I'm good on me. I've got a great life. I've got a great job. All of that is taken care of. I just want you to teach me the find someone better part. But there's usually some unfinished business regarding closure in the past relationships. and then there's usually something going on with the self. Because I think for majority of those women who are like, I'm jonesen to go into the Find Someone Better section, they do have a problem with being single.

Really looking at their singledom as a problem, especially if they're in their late 30s to late 40s, I think that alone is something that's really interesting to look at because it's still coming in believing that once I find someone, find my person, then I'm set. I really want to teach people how to be set before he or she or they arrive. That feels like such a hard belief to shake, though. I deal with that with so many of my friends because they're like, I have this picture of a

life that I want. It includes a family often and there are very real biological timelines. Absolutely. And I think there's just something where they're like, I want a partner and what is so wrong? Why don't I get one if everybody else gets one? So if making peace with that is part of the process, how do we actually do that? Oh, that is the million dollar question list. First I let them know, there's nothing wrong with wanting it. I really think that it is okay to crave it and desire it, but when it becomes all consuming and you're in this, I call it, bitter Betty syndrome of just like, yeah, but he's not here. And when he's here, it'll be better when he's here, it'll be better when he's,

here and why is it happening for everybody else and it isn't happening for me. And now that I'm at this age, the dating pool is more limited and all the good ones are gone. And maybe there is really something wrong with me, but I don't really know. Maybe that not in this lifetime. And when you have all that noise going on in your brain and you're showing up with that energy, how do you expect to really attract your most up-leveled partner? I agree. I just feel like there's something almost, there's something very tricky about the idea that like you almost have to pretend to let go wanting a partner and date yourself and love yourself and all that. But there's almost this underlying thing of like, well, if I do this, will I attract a partner? I mean, I heard you're

amazing with your questions and I've been listening to you. That is so good. I don't think, and this is what I really spell out for my clients, we never deny that we want the person. And we never deny that that can be an uncomfortable feeling. I think it is, to your point, striking that balance of, but can I really know? So what I often ask my clients is, but what if he doesn't come in a year? or two years, then what? And a lot of the time, they just start to cry. And it's like, there it is, right? It's like, but if he doesn't come now or because he hasn't arrived yesterday, this is bad, this is wrong, this is unfair, right? I really do the work to help them get to a place like, no matter what, I am good, no matter what, I am going to be okay. And I really had to reconcile

that with myself because after my rock bottom relationship at 29, 30 years old, I was single, for the most part for eight years. Dated a lot of duzies, dated a lot of man children. Hello, I was living in LA. And, you know, I really had to clean all of that stuff up. And I really had to have a come to Jesus moment with myself and say, but if he wasn't, I believe that to a certain extent and that it's not true in every sense of the way. But I do believe as a heartbreak finding love coach that you can, and you will deliberately call him in with my process, but you have to not be attached to the when and the how. Can you show up and enjoy the process once you're in the find someone better section of the way that I work after dating yourself for a while? Can you truly enjoy the process and not make meaning out of the fact that you just went on five dates?

And it still wasn't one of those people. Because then when you're like, it's not working, it's not working, what's going on. I mean, it's no different than when I was building my business and primarily work in a group program now. But, you know, when I was building my one-on-one clients, like if I had five consultations, when I was first building this heartbreak coaching business, and five people said no, am I going to just be like, oh, well, five people said no, because so clearly nobody wants it. Can you give us a few pragmatic things that we can do to like date ourselves or love ourselves? Like, what does that actually look like in practice? It really looks like looking at your mind and seeing how the thoughts that you're thinking are driving actions that are yielding your results.

So keep in mind that you're asking about the falling in love with you. You're not dating anybody. So there's a period of time where I don't let my clients date and just look at it. their relationships with themselves. And so it really is nuanced person to person, but it's like, what lights you up? What are you waking up for? What are you getting out of bed for that isn't about your kid, that isn't about your job? Or maybe your job is your purpose, but that you're waking up for something that just lights you up for you that has nothing to do with anybody else. I also look at befriending loneliness. I'm with a partner who has four children. Now I've been with him for two and a half years. I am much more acclimated into a family with them, but, you know, I was still

navigating loneliness in our relationship because we were taking the kids part really slowly, and he's with them 50% of the time. I know that this is a really morbid thing to say, but I've been saying it a lot to my clients. Like really all we have is ourselves at the end of the day. So if you could just really find a next level of peace, acceptance, and a sense of home with yourself before you look for someone else to be that added bonus, that will end up having you attract. I'm the most in love and safe and happy that I've ever been with someone. And I truly believe that that work of just knowing that I am okay no matter what, I'm happy no matter what, I'm fulfilled no matter what, while never denying, right, that I am ultimately looking for love and I will create him with the

way that I'm thinking, feeling, and behaving. Not to drill in too much, but it's something I just, I feel like there's so many podcasts I listen to in books I read. And I'm always like, yes, yes, yes, when I'm listening. And then afterward, I'm like, okay, but like, what should I do right now? So, like, are we telling ourselves a mantra? Like, I am okay just as I am. I love myself, just as I am. Are we literally going to the movies by ourselves or like eating at a restaurant by ourselves?

So I think that that's like the cliche. Like, these are the things that you do to date yourself to make yourself feel good. And like, if those things make you happy, go do those things. And those are, right, actions of quote unquote loving yourself. Yeah. If those are things that you genuinely enjoy. But I think a lot of women, I think this is such a great question, a lot of women fall into the trap of, well, I brought myself to get a facial and I still feel really sad and lonely. I think it really looks like.

My skin looks great. Yeah, exactly. But the insides are really sad. But I think what it comes down to is, what do you think about yourself? Let's say I was single. I'm not. let's say I'm single at 41, right? That's how old I am. What do I think about that? What do I think about me being a single woman at 41? Well, I was just at a wedding a couple of weeks ago where a man looked at me and said,

well, how are you 41 and you've never been married before? Right. Like that's such a triggering question to so many women with my partner there. Right? It's like such a triggering question for so many women. I literally looked at him and said, I'm so sorry, what do you mean by that question? And I realized I said to my partner after I was triggered for the women in my group. Because there are people like that who ask those questions that make them feel really secure. But because I have zero drama about never being married at 41 years old, right, that I could have this calm, like, curious conversation with him and kind of put him in his place. But how many women would be triggered by that question? So let's do the work on owning the fact that you're 41 and you've never been married before. Who cares?

Oh, maybe society. Maybe your family. What do you want to think and feel about you being single at 41? You do really get to choose the story. And I think so many women fall into the trap of it being a stigma and being a problem. And from where I'm sitting, it isn't a problem. I just have a woman in my group. She's 47 and she just met an amazing guy.

And she has four kids. So I also have women who are like, I'm a single mom. No one's going to want to date me. That's just not true. But if you believe that and you show up believing that's a problem and kind of apologizing and like maybe holding back or I just had a woman join my group, she was like, So I've been lying about my age. I'm like, why? Right?

And she was someone who was like, so just show me how to date because I've been healing a lot of trauma. And I'm like, no, no, no, you have shame about your age. We got to clean this up. So that's one specific example. But it's really like, what are the areas in your life that you're insecure about and carrying shame about that we need to look at? Another big one is who they see in the mirror.

Do they think they're not attractive enough or successful enough? I mean, that was a big trigger for me in my last relationship. So really cleaning up. what you think and feel about yourself and whatever areas of your life are your trigger points and also doing it for yourself, not doing it from a place of, and once I get this job promotion, then I'll be way more appealing to the next guy that I date, doing it for yourself. Is that a little more clear? It is a little more clear. Do you think that you have to be successful in your own mind? You have to be attractive in your own mind to find a partner? No, I think you just have to be happy in

your own mind and okay with wherever that you are at. That makes sense. And I think if you're not okay with those things, figure out why you're not okay. Do you think you should be more successful because that will make you more attractive? Or for me, when I really hit pause for five months in 2019, just to really go in and date myself, I was cleaning up my finances. I really had a vision for my business. As I said, I was an actress earlier. I was still living with a roommate in my mid-30s. And like for me, and no judgment to anybody here, anyone listening who's in that position. But for me, I was like, there are just standards that I want for myself. And I also think when you're focusing on a lot of big things at once, your energy just gets

really scattered. So I was just like, I got a hit pause because I know I can create him with an aligned mind and a really fulfilling relationship with myself. And I see myself being like, there's all these other things I just want to clean up for me and me alone. And then it was like, honestly, I felt like my partner effortlessly arrived. I was like surprised that he showed up so soon because I had no ex-examined. because I had no expectation or urgency for his arrival.

I also think it's interesting that you mention things like finances because I think sometimes there's the idea that like I'll wait until I have this thing sorted to get the rest of my life together in these ways because I'm just so focused and so nervous about that timeline thing. And I think it's one of the biggest acts of self-care that we can do is to get our finances in order and clean up, be in a living space that we like. Like these things matter more for our mental health than a bath as much as I enjoy. Bath. Amen. I couldn't agree with you more. Not getting my finances in order so that somebody else

will approve of me. It's just about me approving of me. How do we let go of this notion of timelines? It's come up a few times already. And I think there really is this idea that like by 30, your life should look like this, by 35, by 40. And when you look around and it isn't quite meeting those ideas, it can be crushing. It can be crushing. And I think you have to let yourself feel crush. I have a five-step process to stop wanting your person back. And the first step is to cut contact completely disconnect. And then the second step is to let yourself grieve. I just think that we're feeling so much heartbreak. And the go-to-to-moe cover over, deny it, bargain, try to get the person back, right? And it's to like really let yourself feel crushed. There were

definitely moments. And I grew up in a hoity tooty town in Westchester County just north of Manhattan, where everybody was checking off boxes throughout their 20s into their 30s, that I wasn't. And so that was really hard for me. And yet then there's a point, Liz, where I feel like you get to grieve what didn't turn out to be the way you wanted it to be. And then it's like, pull up your big girl pants and let's make it happen now, right? Like let's make it happen now and let's look at how I got to hear, which wasn't where I wanted it to be. And if I still want that, how am I going to do it differently now?

Like you can feel what you feel about the time that has passed, but that's sunk cost. And at a certain point, you have to be like, how do I want to feel about the last five years, five years in the future? Yeah, because also, if you're just poo-pooing your sadness about it, right, that's going to perpetuate being unsatisfied. Another big theme of the falling in love with you work is not giving yourself the grace and the compassion to feel sad, not blaming yourself for staying as long as you did when the writing was on the wall. Like really and truly a next level of compassion because there's so much shoulda-a-cuda-cuda-cotta-ing about the relationship, about themselves. So again, all of that really needs to be looked at on a deeper level because

you're just going to carry it out again and again and again and attract the same kind of people. Because trust me, I did it throughout my 30s until I really had to be like, Like, okay, we got to look at something deeper here because the common denominator is me. And I don't have to shame myself. I don't have to blame myself. And I don't have to beat myself up or apologize or explain to people like the, you know what, who I met at the wedding who's like, how are you 41 and not married? I know exactly how.

And I'm totally confident in my relationship. And I don't owe an explanation to anyone. And like, shame on you for asking that question, right? To like have that just be ingrained in me in a next level and not be like, oh my gosh. turning to my partner and saying, you better put a ring on it before 42, right? I was like, no, how dare he? And that should be the response. But it takes work to get to that place of self-ownership on all the levels of yourself. Do you think that that is a good go-to response when people ask you kind of those boundary pushing questions? Like, what was your intent in asking that

question? Yeah. I said, why are you asking that question? And he was like, oh, well, and he got all squirrely. And then he was like, oh, I just like to throw grenades at situations. And he totally backpedaled. And then I said, but let's be real. If I was 25, you would not be asking me that question. So should that be? Like, I love the idea of arming people with like an in their pocket response. Because I do think that's part of the fear is like, oh, I don't want to go to a wedding because people will ask me about my single status. I don't want to go to this family event for that reason. Should that be like the little pocket response? It depends on who it is. Like this was a person who I'd never met before, right? So I was like, what is that about? Whereas, I don't know, maybe there's

like genuine family members who care, right? That it doesn't have to be as like, well, why are you asking me that? It's like, I don't know. I kind of think even if your mom is like, what is ever the goal is I actually think it's something that we should all reflect on more often when asking questions and putting expectations on other people's lives. Well, I mean, again, mom's stuff is like another level too, right? It's another podcast. Yeah, I mean, the boundary with my mom was don't ask until I have something to share, right? Because, I mean, yes, another podcast episode. I mean, for me personally, here's the deal. I never really got asked that question much by family members because I really did the work to not make it a problem.

And also not pretend like I wasn't looking for my person. I think that's the work. And then if someone's crossing the boundary, it's like, I'd rather not talk about that on my Thanksgiving day. Thank you for asking. And I'll let you know if someone of importance, comes along. That's very fair. The mattress that you sleep on is one of the highest exposures that you have. Like, if it's off gassing, you're breathing that in for basically a third of your life. And most conventional mattresses are loaded with synthetic foams, flame retardants, microplastics, and more. Plus, if it's not comfy, you're going to be tossing and turning. You're going to be really hot. And sleep is the foundation of health. It is so important.

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So do you believe that we should be cutting off contact completely with an X? Like should we be unfollowing them on social media, deleting them from our phone? What's the level there? I'm very black and white about this. Now, obviously, if you share kids, we have to navigate boundaries and the way that we speak with each other. and I think it's wonderful when people can co-parent, of course, and of course, if you work together. But then my first question is if you're in like down in the dump so much and you're seeing this

person at work every day, I'm like, do you need this job? Is your mental and emotional health not as important if you can't even focus and all you're thinking about is where that person is, if they're going to say something to you, is it a professional conversation? Is it a personal conversation? Oh, but you looked at me like this. So I really do ask that question. Now, some of them say, this is my dream job. I'm not changing that. And it's like, okay, then we're going to have to navigate through that. But for the masses, I say completely cut contact.

We're living in a day and age where we have access to pretty much what everyone is up to. And that's really harmful when you're really trying to remove the person from your brain and heal. I always compare it to if you're addicted to sugar, you're addicted to alcohol, right? If you're going sober, you're not going to go to the bar where all the alcohol is and sniff it. and watch other people drink it, right? Remove yourself completely. And the difference is that sugar can't talk to you, alcohol can't talk to you, but your ex can. And it can really mess with your head and disrupt the healing process and create a lot more

drama. And if you're watching on social media and you see them post something with someone or you see a new follower, it is crazy making. And so I really am a stickler on that one. I think it's tricky because you can tell yourself like, oh, we had this relationship over time we built this intimacy. I don't want to just throw that all down the drain. So it almost feels like being the bigger person to try to maintain a friendship of some sort. So it's interesting that you draw this like hard line. I like it. Yeah. And I think it's a sneaky thought to say, I want to be the

bigger person and navigate this friendship. It's like a sneaky way to hold on and not really take the time to heal. If it's someone from long ago and you know that there's no residual pain or longing there, then that's a different story. But I think if your goal is to really next level heal and then next level grow and deepen your relationship with yourself, I'm aware how cliche all of these terms sound, but it doesn't involve your ex in the interim of that period. So then step two is kind of like letting yourself feel the grief. And then you said step three is like when you're coming along and putting on your big girl panties. And I'm curious about that feeling when like time has passed and you feel like it's big girl panty time and you're like I should be over it.

But you can't get over the person. I think this happens a lot in friendships too where you feel like you can't move on. And I think it happens in romantic relationship. So how do we move on when like every ounce of our being is like, no, I don't want to? Yes. So to be clear, my step three is create closure. And that's really bringing in the mindset work. And that is a process.

One morning you could wake up and say, I miss this person so much and you're just looking at that thought, grieving the thought, or I want him back, right? And looking at all the angles, maybe, how is it true? But again, remember, after step two, really letting your heartbreak, letting yourself cry, letting yourself rest, letting yourself take off work if you can. How long do we get first step two? Like, what's a recommended period of time? I know it's different person to person, but like, what's ideal? It really is because it's like, how long have you been with that person? Was it a broken engagement and you were supposed to like meet that person at the altar? I really don't put this.

It needs to like be this long. I think trust the process. When you lean in and you really give yourself that permission to grieve because I hear this from my clients a lot. But I've been grieving. I'm so sad. I've been crying every day. Everything triggers me. But they're fighting it.

When they're saying that, it's like I have a problem with the grief. I should be over it by now. I should be better. I shouldn't be feeling this way. So your idea is like actually lean in. Like you might think you're leaning in, but you are not leaning in. Yeah. You get to grieve. You get to allow it versus, okay, it's here. I hate it. When's it going to be over? I think the reason why I hesitate to give a clear answer on that one, Liz, is because if you think, if I say two months, three months and you're still hurting. Yeah. Or they have this expectation, well, this is going to go away in July. And it's like, No, but if you actually trust the process and say, oh, this is interesting, letting myself

grief, waking up, maybe put in my hand of my heart, which a therapist told me that once, and I was like, no, I don't want to put a hand on my heart. And now I'm like, Claire, you were doing great. Like, I'm so connected to the hand on the heart move, but you've got to figure out what are those healing modalities for you. And I offer different suggestions in that grief period, but it really is so nuanced. But what I absolutely know is when you actually give yourself that permission to lean in, grieve, hand on the heart, cry, lie in bed, or go to bed early, have shorter days, give yourself the nap that your body is craving because maybe you're just so exhausted. And for sure, make yourself eat. I know that you would be a big proponent of that,

right? But just like, get it down. I mean, I was 10 pounds underweight in my rock bottom. And I just remember going to smoothie places and just being like, put in the almond butter and as much protein. It took everything in me to just get that down. But like doing your best to be gentle with yourself and coming from this place of like, I got you baby girl, right? Like I got you. I'm going to take care of you. We're going to take care of this vessel. We're going to take care of everything. And we're going to speak to ourselves in a way that if your best friend was going through it, you would say the same thing to her. But most women, at least under my watch, and for sure myself, it was like, no, no, no, I'll do that for other people, but I won't do that

for me. And so when you really get the hang of that, you will have a clearing that sets you up for doing the mindset work to be like, okay, how do we start really kick a? this person to the curb. So talk to me about closure. Do you believe that we need closure to kind of get over relationships always? I believe we need to create closure in the sense of understanding the huge lesson that that relationship offered us, who we were when we attracted that person, how it all unfolded. I was really attached to my victim story in my rock bottom relationship with someone who is just a textbook narcissistic sociopath based on my own research. And I do believe that I was a victim to his abuse, but I was so mired in what he did to me.

And that came at a cost of my own suffering. It's like, no, those things that he did were not okay. But, well, let's take a look at how I met him two years prior to dating him. And as soon as I met him, everything in my body said that guy is trouble, right? Like really unpacking and what was it that I was seeking from him when really I wasn't paying attention to my gut multiple times throughout the relationship. and really paying attention to that and understanding how it all unfolded, understanding the bigger lesson. Closure, I do not define closure as getting it from the other person.

So we don't need to be chasing down our ex or our ex friend. And there's so many situations that closure is literally impossible. Like there's people experiencing heartbreakover loss. Whether that person is not available literally or not available emotionally, you just can't get what you want from other people so often. Yet we chase it. Oh, for sure. I mean, if my partner left me tomorrow, I would have a lot of questions for sure. And I think, again, it's very nuanced. I just had a client. She was dating someone for two and a half months. I mean, we've unpacked it. And now I see what was really going on that she hadn't shared before. But she was kind of soft about his reason for ending the relationship. Because of all the information that I did know,

I was like, why are you being so understanding about this? You don't have. always have to feel clean, pretty feelings and thoughts and sending that person love. I'm not saying sit in your anger either. After we coached on it, she said, he even said, if you have any further questions, I understand. And it was within like a 24 hour window of our conversation. I think in those moments where it's like, hey, I just want to let you know that what you did and the way you misled me was really not okay with me. And I think that that's okay. But if someone's like gone for six months or a year and you're starting to really do the healing work, I don't think it's necessary to tap that person on the shoulder to be like, hey, guess what? So it's not going to serve and you're

always hoping to get an answer back that you're never going to get. I have never in my own history or anybody else's history seen, oh, I sent him this letter and I told him. And then he like came back and groveled and said, please forgive me and give me another chance. But isn't it amazing how we can convince ourselves that we will be the exception every single time? Or that we convince ourselves, and I'm just doing it for me, but I don't even care if he responds. And then he doesn't respond. And then you're like, I put so much heart and soul into that letter. Right. So it's like what another big part of what I offer my clients is like really be onto your brain as to why you're reaching out to this person right now. Even in the dating sphere, I have a client right now who's like really feeling anxious about this new guy she's

dating and we were going back and forth. And I was saying sit in the discomfort. It's too early to look for reassurance and then ultimately she texted him and didn't hear from him for like 12 hours. And I'm like, but let's look at why you actually texted him because the energy was coming from, please give me reassurance. Right. So it's a really just next level being like, what am I trying to get out of this situation that I'm not giving myself? Is there any way to get closure from a ghosting situation? Create it for yourself. I mean, again, specifically though, for that type of scenario, I think it triggers a lot of the like what's wrong with me. They just left for no reason.

I think it again depends if it's like if you've been on two dates with someone and they goes. This is why I think the fall in love with you work is so important because my clients get to the point that if you go on two dates with someone after they've been doing all this work, are they hurt and is there clean pain to that and they were excited? It actually just happened with one of my clients, went on a date with somebody that seemed really promising to her. The second time he just completely delayed.

the date, didn't really confirm a time. And she was like, what? And then she was really bummed about it. And she let him know, hey, that doesn't work for me. And I would have appreciated you. If you didn't want to see me, that's fine. But, you know, I think you can let them know if it's like in that situation, but he didn't, I guess, technically goes, look, if you've been dating someone for three months and they completely ghost, again, what is the thought? What's the thought about yourself so that that person would do it? To me, it's so indicative of him or her, right? Like, They ghosted and we just had this amazing connection. And that's the way they're going to handle it.

If they didn't want to see me anymore, wow, that does a lot more about you than it says about me. Right. When you go into the what's wrong with me that they ghosted, what's wrong with them that they ghosted? Yeah, I agree completely. Okay. What's step four? That's the fall in love with you that we've been talking about. Okay.

And then step five is find someone better. Is there a secret to finding somebody better? Really? Before you go find your someone better. create closure on your past relationships. I see this with a client that's just popping into my head. She goes out on a date. It doesn't work out. And then she's like, and now it's making me miss John. And I'm like, so we've got more cleaning up to do on John. Again, it's not you have to have a perfectly clean brain and you can't have any thoughts about any X anymore. That is not what I'm saying,

but really and truly, you know that significant shift when you're over the past people and you don't have a bitter chip on your shoulder and you're not carrying that in as you're bringing your like newly more in love with yourself version of you out into the dating world. And then the second step is that fall in love with you work. What are the thoughts that you're thinking of yourself and what are the areas in your life that you want to improve on for you, not for other people? And then step three is get clear on who you want to attract. Who do you want to attract? We spend so much time thinking about all the people we don't want. We don't leave and create space to create the person that we actually do want.

And this is a tricky one for step four in my Find Someone Better process because it sounds a little anti-feminist. So I want to make sure that if this is not like become Betty Crocker and like do everything for your man. And again, I know I'm speaking in heteronormative terms here, but become the woman to attract your ideal person. Like really making sure. Okay. So just become the person to attract your ideal person. Exactly, exactly. And then step five is go out and find him. So many people have drama about the dating apps. I heard your episode with Logan Yuri, right? There's so much drama about all of that stuff that also prevents people from showing up in a really clean and present and intentional way

and then they avoid it or, you know, I think the dating apps are the most mainstream way of finding your person. So get out there, create a profile, you know, ask people to set you up. Like get out and date. Don't tell me how hard dating is and then tell me that you haven't been on a date in six months. I have so many questions. Okay. First of all, how do we become the person that will attract the person that we want? What does that look like? I think if you're looking for a rich person, then go be rich yourself, right? There's all these things that we want other people to be. And then I'm like, are you doing that for yourself? And they're like, no. It's like in a relationship. I feel like there's that thing where you're like, oh, I wish my partner like got me flowers and complimented me.

But you're also like, well, do you compliment your partner? Do you get your partner flowers? And then it's like, no, but I want them to do it for me. And it's like, yeah, make it reciprocal. It's one of the best ways that we learn is by mirroring. Absolutely. But also, are you complimenting yourself? I think a lot of the people who want compliments from their partners don't really believe in their own value. And so they're looking for a partner to give that to them. And I just don't think that that's the greatest reason to want to be in a relationship. I had a client once say to me, I just want him. to be a vulnerable person because I find it really hard to be vulnerable. But if he's vulnerable, that will help me be vulnerable. I'm like, no, go get vulnerable. Go practice that now. Don't wait for someone else to create that safe space for you. It's interesting because on this podcast, Jamie Varen said that jealousy is a really great way to get in touch with what you want in your life. And it sounds like almost what you're desiring in a partner is a great way to tap into what you desire for yourself. But instead of relying on somebody else to bring that in. into your life, you can bring that into your life. And then it sounds like from what you're saying,

you believe that brings that person into your life through a sort of a roundabout process. Is that right? Go be that person. One thing that I can really give myself credit for is that I was so committed to my dreams, whether it was acting, whether I was building my yoga teaching business, then it became coaching. And it's like, I really had this thought of my guy would, if he came into this coffee shop or if he was a fly on the wall, he would be like, wow, look at her. going after what she wants. Like what she's doing is scary, right? Being an entrepreneur, I know you know this, right? It ain't an easy path a lot of the time. And it's so rewarding and amazing, but it requires grit and it requires commitment and knowing that there's no guarantees.

There are moments where when I was the single girl at the wedding many, many times, I'm going to go have fun at the wedding. I'm going to be doing splits on the dance floor. That's my signature move. I'm going to have a great time because I'm not going to let some stigma attached to me being one of the few single people ruined my time. And my guy is going to think that that's awesome. And I love it because it's win-win. You're making your life better whether or not you attract a partner. It's going to be better no matter what. But then you're also making yourself more likely to attract a partner. Exactly. The ownership of it, but also checking whatever it is that I'm looking for in that person, check myself to make sure I'm really giving that to myself

and that I would give that to my partner when they arrive. And then for step five, you said put yourself out there. What would you say to somebody who's like, I have been putting myself out there. I have been on the dating apps. It's not working. I just want to like quit it all. And if the right person is out there, they'll find me. When my clients go from stop wanting the person back, falling in love with themselves and then they get themselves out there, I don't let them get away with. But I've been doing it because they haven't been doing it now from this upleveled place that they've elevated their minds and healed their hearts and create a closure on a next level so that they're not carrying the bitter betty syndrome with them or you know expecting it's like no i'm bringing this new

version out right i've been swiping on bumble for years but i matched with my partner larry at a time where i was like this is fun i'm amazing i'm the best version of myself that i've ever been you'll appreciate this i was literally swiffering my apartment and listening to taylor swift and i was just like having a blast i'm like multitasking swiping and there he was like i was just totally content in my life. And I think when you're coming to the apps with, oh, this is so annoying and I've been doing this for years and nobody good is on here. I mean, Logan said it in your recent interview with her. You're looking for one, right? You're looking for one person. So the hundred people that you swipe on or maybe 500 people

you might swipe on in a week aren't a problem because you're just looking for your one person. And how lucky are we that we get to find people at our fingertips? And so you have to swipe through a bunch of doozies. If you really don't make them a problem, they won't be a problem. The number one rule of habits is to make the things that you want easier and the things that you don't want harder. Yet so many of us want to eat healthier, but so few of us actually take the steps to make eating healthier easier. That's where Marley Spoon comes in. What I love about this company and what's different than all of the other companies out there that are doing like stuff in the same arena is that you can customize your choices based on the efforts.

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about this John person. So how do we move through the idea that we had that person? They were there and something went awry and we missed our shot. I'm just going to say from my own experience as a person who's dated a lot and from my experience of coaching hundreds of women now, John wasn't that great. I had never ever heard about one person who actually got away. They weren't that great. That person totally body shamed her and sex shamed her. And really when I was like, okay, so what were the good parts about him?

Well, one time I was sick and in the middle of the night, he, like, like got up and made me tea. I'm like, that is basic as you know what, right? They're not that great. Now, I'm not saying truly, I don't know what I would do if Larry left me tomorrow because he is so amazing, but I don't believe he's going to because I attracted this partner from a way more elevated conscious place. But they just revert back and selectively remember the good. And it's like, I'm just going to be here as your coach to remind you. Actually, he wasn't that great. I wish I could say that in a way that my friends believed me. Like, you know what I mean? One of the first things that I asked my clients to do when they're in the heartbreak section, the stop wanting them

back section is like, what are all the reasons that you actually don't want him back? Like, if you really take an honest inventory about the entirety of the relationship, as our mutual friend Loreley, she's like, you're a tough love coach. You know, I sure am. I'm like, no, that's actually not true. Remember this. Remember this. Remember this. But really, listen. down all the reasons, it's like, oh, yeah. And, you know, when I talk about creating your ideal person in the five-step process to find your person, a lot of my clients say, whoa, that was such a game changer for me because all that I want in this new person, a lot of those things that X did not have. So then it's like if you can get clear on what your ideal person actually, actually, actually

looks like, you can kind of start to see, well, John wasn't that person. And it gives you that space a little bit. Yes, but here's where some of the listeners might say, but here's the part that really is the problem for me. I'm just not sure that person exists. Yeah. Okay. So what about that? I 100% believe when you do this process and this work and you commit to it. I can't tell you it's going to happen in this time, but I absolutely believe you will create your person again. You're looking for one. Looking for one person. If you do this work and you stay committed and you're actively dating, your person will arrive. I really do believe that. But in terms of, well, I just don't believe that person exists. So therefore, I'm going to continue to pine for not so great John.

This is where I say, I'd rather be with myself and continue doing the self-love work, which truly is a lifelong journey, just because I found the love of my life doesn't mean that that work doesn't stop for me. And I'm just going to keep dating me, having fun, living my best life, and then ultimately continue dating until I find my person. How many times are you willing to let your heart get hurt in order to find your person? And the answer for that to me was, I'm not going to stop, because I know I'm great. I know I have so much to offer someone really, really great. If I'm looking for this kind of partnership,

there has to be one man out there that's looking for that kind of partnership with me. And I just held the space for that. And this is where the thought work comes in. When my person arrives, the thought that I'm going to have is it had to unfold exactly this way to get to this person. And I had to move through each of these relationships and rise to the occasion for every single lesson with each of those relationships to get me to this person.

And I know in my bones it's going to make me emotion. I know in my bones that I'm going to say that all of that heartbreak was one million percent worth it for him and it 100 percent is. And so it's really leaning and trusting in the process and preferring you over some not so great person in your past is so much more worth it. And just because even if you have that doubt that that person doesn't exist isn't a good enough reason to then just settle for someone that gave you crumbs. I totally agree.

Is there some very actionable advice you could give to somebody who's trying to support a friend through a breakup? Like should we be sitting down and making that list of why John doesn't have all the qualities that our friend thinks that they had? I think it's always important to ask if that's something they'd be open to. Oh, I heard this podcast and this coach was suggesting this. Like, I really want to figure out a way to help you. I think, again, it just depends on the stage, right? It's like, I'm here to hold space and listen and hold you and cross. with you. And then eventually, and I was this person, Liz, and I know I drove my friends and my family

crazy. Eventually, that person could be driving you as a friend crazy, right? And I've had some friends who've driven me crazy with that too, right? And so I think eventually it's like what else can we do here to help you? Because I just feel like we're not getting anywhere. Do you feel like you need to speak to somebody? Hey, listen to this podcast, right? Giving them suggestions, but also lovingly shining a light and saying, I want to help you, but I just feel like the help that I'm offering isn't working. And someone actually said that to me, a dear friend of mine. And it's hard to hear, but it was honestly the best thing she could have said because it really made me see, okay, now I'm starting to drive my friends crazy. And I've got to look at different suggestions. And yeah, say, you know,

I've heard this thing on this podcast. Let's talk about what's actually true. Like, he wasn't that great. And here's why. And here are the things that you told me. So what's going on? should we share our honest thoughts on a friend's ex? I think we've all been in that situation where we're like, he was an asshole and then they like get back together and you're like, yeah, shit. Look, I am such an open book and so transparent. And I feel like if you're going to come to me and you're going to tell me these things,

then I'm going to dish it back. I think you also have to like know who you're dealing with and like the dynamic. But I think it gets tricky if the person just keeps making up, breaking up, making up, breaking up. And then I also think as a friend, you get to put up a boundary and say, hey, like, I love you so much, but I'm very concerned that you're getting back together given the information that you've given me. And so I think it's best to, you know, not really talk about this. And I think that hopefully, I hope that you have other outlets. But you also get to protect your space and your energy and not kind of move through the crazy with her. And I'm not calling her crazy. I was that girl, right? Or not calling that person crazy, but like they're making themselves crazy. And I finally learned Liz, I don't think it. It's true that a friend has to be there through every single hard moment. I think like being boundaryed and saying, hey, this is above my pay grade. I don't know how else to help you here.

I love you. I can listen for a short period of time. But also saying like, I have nothing new to offer you. I think that's completely fair. Do you have any advice for knowing when it's time to cut the cord, like when a breakup is an order? Oh, that's a really good question. Again, what I ask with my clients when they're doing the find someone better section is just getting really clear on their standards and their values and what it is that they're looking for with

their partner that are negotiable and non-negotiable. And so if there is a non-negotiable going on and you're just like dragging it out, for example, my partner, as I mentioned, has four children. It was a big conversation for us in the beginning of our relationship because he does not want to have a fifth. I mean, go figure. And so, you know, if that was a non-negotiable for me, or God forbid, I decided later or I decide later. I know that I won't. I really believe that I won't, right? It's like, why would you drag it out if you know that ultimately that's what you want to go off and do? Or you really know that you've tried and you've been in therapy and you're working away and you're just not seeing eye to eye on some major things. I know I have someone in my life

who's just like, oh, part of me feels like, if only I tried harder, I'm like, it's been for like seven years that you've been in therapy and like going around in circles and you keep giving me more and more and more things that your partner has done. And it just doesn't seem to be getting better and you're exhausted and it's consuming you and you're constantly sad. Like, you just got to hold the plug. What are some of the worst things that you see people doing post breakup? Continuing to stay in contact and then trying to figure out if they're seeing someone else and trying to beg them to get back. Destructive things like over drinking, drugs, starving themselves. I mean, one thing that I did that I think this was so destructive and I have compassion for myself now.

Again, 10 years ago at my rock bottom, yes, there was therapy and I tried various therapists, but there wasn't as much out there. And I really, it was just on my mind 24-7 and anyone who was going to listen to me, I was going to be talking about it and like everyone was going to listen and everyone was going to know the story and just replay it over and over and over again, which is like re-breaking my heart over and over and over again. And what happened was horrific, but I didn't know what to do with it. And so I would say like staying in that and telling the world and meeting everybody to know,

I just don't think serves and getting everybody's opinions on it is a really unhealthy thing to do. It's an interesting instinct, though, because I feel like every single person I know who's going through heartbreak has it. They just want to talk about it all. Like it's a catharsis. I don't know what we're seeking in it, but it's so common that I feel like we're looking for something there. You're literally going through withdrawal in your brain. It's just this massive loss. And you're like physically, I mean, I'm no scientist, but withdrawal of serotonin and oxytocin and dopamine. And I was just reading this, I started to read this beautiful book by a woman named Florence Williams. And she wrote, have you heard of her? She wrote this book called Heartbreak. And she really looks at the scientific angle of it. There's an area in the brain that when it's experiencing the loss of the dopamine and the oxytocin, it's next to the cravings that we experience for whatever it is that we really love or whatever that, like, really there is something. It's like we feel like we're going crazy and we're unraveling

and something's like fundamentally wrong with us and this is a bad thing that's happening. And yes, the heartbreak is a bad thing that's happening in your brain, the loss that you're experiencing, but we think like there's something bad about the way we're reacting. And the reality is that it's normal. This is a normal response. It's just super, super painful. for sure i got to ask you about Courtney ostensibly Courtney Kardashian loves you you're the resident heartbreak coach for push and she just found the love of her life so i'm curious if this was like your process that led her to Travis oh i don't think so i don't think so i'm so grateful that she has me and i'm not even just trying i mean 100 percent i think that that was just a beautiful

organic thing yes yes for sure it felt faded for sure okay i just i had to ask because I'm like if that's where we can get is I don't know the making out on somebody's lap love by going through this then that feels like a great stand of approval for sure I'm curious is there anything good you think about heartbreak like things that we can learn about being a human in this world from going through heartbreak I love all your questions Liz I have to say I can talk to you for hours I say in the very first video in my course I think you're one of the lucky ones because I never even knew how much, again, sorry, I'm going to get emotional. I never knew how much I hated myself until that rock bottom relationship

10 years ago. And like, I had no choice but to look at how much, I can't believe I'm emotional. I abandoned myself on so many levels and without that relationship. And if I give myself credit where it's due, me really being willing to do everything I possibly could to heal and look at myself and do the work to change my relationship with myself because it just wasn't a way to live. And I know that that's how all the clients I've worked with really and truly feel they come and they think it's one of the worst things that's ever happened to them. People asking all the time, how do you hold space for so much pain for all these people? Because I see the other side. I truly feel, thank God that situation happened because I would not be with the love of my life without

having gone through all of that. And he is worth it and his kids are worth it and the life that I have now and most importantly, the relationship with myself that I have now wouldn't exist. So I can honestly say I don't forgive my Rock Bottom X because never got an apology that I know, surprise, surprise. And that's a whole other episode to forgive or not to forgive. But one thing that I can absolutely say is I thank him. He's truly the most significant teacher of my life. Can you leave us with one homework assignment, just something that's like very pragmatic and actionable that everybody can do when they're done listening today to get over heartbreak to take those steps?

I think the first thing that comes to mind is the first thing that we said that I offer is like, you think you want this person back, but let's look at the entirety of the relationship and all the things that person said and did that actually didn't work for you. Then your brain goes, but it will work. Like I realize now because he's gone that like I'm fine with it. You're not fine. You are lying to yourself. There's a reason why it didn't work out.

You asked for something and that person didn't want to deliver. You don't want to be in a relationship where you are compromising your core needs. And they're going to be different from person to person, but really just getting clear on actually, all of those things weren't that great. I think a mic drop moment in this conversation was like, well, what do you say to the people say, what about John? And it's like, no, really, John wasn't that great. Your job is to recognize that he wasn't that great.

but you've got to let your heart break before you do the work to really believe it. You owe it to yourself to grieve the loss. That would be the first actionable step. But if I was going to just to expand on what you said, if I was going to say like a very easy, simple actionable stuff from what you said, it sounds like you could literally grab a pen and a paper and write down your actual core needs and your actual core values. And then maybe you could start to line up, did my ex have these? Yeah.

I would still, because I think their brain is so all about that person. that I would go to, what are all those things that actually didn't work? Because like, that's where the focus is. And then from there, I know what their brain is going to say is, oh, but now I don't care. I'd rather have them than not have them at all and put up with all the things that I knew weren't okay. And then it would be, what is really my truth? What is it really that I want? Yeah. And is that really an alignment with this person as painful as it is to lose them. Can you tell us a little bit about where people can find you, your offerings, your course, all of that. Absolutely. So you can go to my website. My name is Claire with an I and an E, Claire theheartbreakcoach.com. And there's just a ton of free content on

there as well. As you mentioned, I write for Courtney Kardashians, push.com. I have dozens of articles and other articles as well as well as my podcast. Stop wanting him back and find someone better. Please just take the pronoun lightly. It really is for everybody. And my group program is for all women. Again, it doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is. That's a year-long group program. You can find all that information at Claire theheartbreakcoach.com and apply. Or if you want like a bite-sized study that's more affordable, you can purchase the course. Just click on the work with me page and follow me on IG at Claire the Heartbreak Coach.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Claire. Thank you, Liz. Thanks so much for having me. I hope you loved this episode with Claire. If you're new here, make sure that you're subscribed so you don't miss out on any future episodes. we have amazing ones coming up, including a sex episode like you have never heard before and a brand spanking new edition of how I learned to love my body.

We also have a super fun giveaway for this episode. Claire has so generously agreed to give away five free slots to her amazing course. These are each worth over $500 and this course is amazing. I've had friends who've had their lives completely changed by it. To enter, just follow both of us on Instagram. I am at Liz Moody and she is at Claire, the Heartbreak Coach. and Claire is spelled C-L-A-I-R-E. And then comment one thing that you loved or learned in the episode on my most recent Instagram post.

The post can be about anything. It doesn't need to be about this episode, but I can tell what you're entering from what the comment says. You can also get a bonus entry by sharing anything you want about this episode on your stories and tagging both of us in that post. I will DM winners in a few weeks, so good luck. Okay, I love you. I hope you have a wonderful week, and I'll see you Wednesday on. on the next episode of the Healthier Together podcast.

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