The Liz Moody Podcast - Growing Up Famous, Navigating Anxiety + Loss, & Aging With Grace With Paulina Porizkova

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Paulina Porizkova is one of the world’s most successful supermodels— she was first Central European woman to appear on the cover of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue in 1984 at age 18, and has since graced the cover of Vogue, Elle, Cosmopolitan, Glamour, Harper’s Bazaar, and more. At one point she landed the highest paid modeling contract ever as the face of Estee Lauder, and she’s also modeled for brands like Chanel, Versace, and more. Paulina’s new book, No Filter: The Good, The Bad, and The Beautiful was just released this month. This is a super raw, vulnerable episode where we talk about: Paulina’s new book. On this episode, we talk about:  her wild childhood rise to fame, including a kidnapping story and serving as the face of life behind the Iron Curtain  how beauty and aging beliefs of the different countries she grew up in shaped her  the honest pros and cons of fame  the shocking news she received after the death of her husband of 33 years, and how she coped  a life changing perspective shift about the relationship between beauty and aging how to navigate the difficult balance between society’s beauty standards and doing what makes you feel beautiful  a genius tip for loving your body through age, childbirth, and other life changes how debilitating anxiety and major success can co-exist  her daily routines to help with her anxiety (+ her experience taking anxiety medication) her biggest regrets + how she’s using them to shape the present  and so much more!  We would LOVE to hear from you any thoughts, reactions, or takeaways you have as you’re listening, so definitely screenshot and tag me @lizmoody and Paulina @paulinaporizkov on Instagram.  To join the Healthier Together Podcast Club Facebook group, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/healthiertogetherpodcast. Get your Healthier Together Deck today at healthyconvo.co and use code LAUNCHDAY to get 10% off, just right now to celebrate launch. This episode is sponsored by AG1 by Athletic Greens. Visit athleticgreens.com/healthiertogether and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today.  This episode is sponsored by Ava Jane’s Kitchen Colima Sea Salt. Go to HealthierTogetherSalt.com to get your first bag of Colima Sea Salt for free.  Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a bestselling author and long-time journalist. This podcast is all about helping you live your healthiest, happiest life, whether we're unlocking how to feel less pain, learning exactly how we should be budgeting our money, or finding out the secret to becoming more focused. And yes, those are all real episodes, so if any of those topics sound good to you, scroll on back in the archives. I am so excited to welcome Paulina Port Scova to the podcast today.

Paulina is one of the world's most successful supermodel. She was the first Central European woman to appear on the cover of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue in 1984 and has since graced the cover of Vogue, L, Cosmopolitan, glamour, Harper's Bazaar, basically every single magazine that you can think of. At one point, she landed the highest paid modeling contract ever as the face of Estée Lauder, and she's also modeled for brands like Chanel and Versace. Oh, and on top of all of that, she spent 33 years married to the frontman of the mega successful band The Cars. It all sounds highly glamorous, and we get into some of that here.

But we also get into a lot of the behind the scenes, less than glamorous things that you don't really hear about. This is a super raw, vulnerable episode where we talk about her wild childhood rise to fame, including a kidnapping story and serving as the face of life behind the iron curtain, how beauty and aging beliefs of the different countries that she grew up and shaped her. the honest pros and cons of fame, the shocking news that she received after the death of her husband of 33 years and how she coped, a life-changing perspective shift about the relationship between beauty and aging, how to navigate the difficult balance between society's beauty standards and doing what makes you feel beautiful, a genius tip for loving your body through age, childbirth,

and other life changes, how debilitating anxiety and major success can coexist. Her daily teens to help with her anxiety plus her experience taking anxiety medication, her biggest regrets and how she's using them to shape the present moment, and so much more. It's definitely a chatty, fun conversation, but we get really deep about a lot of topics, including how Paulina's perspective has changed as she's gotten older. She joked with me that this felt like a therapy session, but I honestly felt like I was more getting advice from a very wise and thoughtful friend. Paulina and I would both love to hear your thoughts as you're listening to the episode,

and I am so interested to hear what you think of her incredible life story. So definitely share and tag us both on Instagram. I am at Liz Moody, and she is at Paulina Ports Gove with no A. I also highly recommend picking up Paulina's gorgeous book, No Filter, The Good, the Bad, and the Beautiful, which is filled with essays that peel back the curtain on Paulina's life and a lot of the things that society puts up on a pedestal. If something really resonates with you from this conversation, please share it with someone

you think would benefit. I think Paulina's advice is so important to hear, especially for women of all ages, for feeling more comfortable in your own skin and being confident in your independence. As always, thank you so much for continuing to share and grow this podcast in this wonderful community. I see you. I appreciate you. And I love becoming healthier together.

One super quick thing before we get into the episode, we just read. relaunched our healthier together conversation card games, and we use all of your feedback to make it better than ever. This is a must have for Thanksgiving or any other family gathering. It makes having really satisfying fun conversations super easy with over 150 obsessively tested questions designed to spark the best chats of your entire life. It's also a perfect holiday gift, so I highly recommend stocking up. If you order three or more, you will get free two-day shipping. Just go to Healthyconvo.co to see some sample questions and get your hands on a game before we sell out. Again, that is Healthycombo.com.com.com.com.com.

I am so, so, so proud of these. I have been working on it so hard. And I cannot wait for you to finally get your hands on one. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. Okay. Are you ready to hear Paulina's amazing story? Let's get right into it. All right, Paulina, thank you so much for being here today. I was just telling you how absolutely blown away I was. with the writing both in your new book, but also I've been a fan of your since your novel came out. How many years ago is that? Oh, my God. That's a really long time.

I think the book was published. It was between 40 and 44. So that's like 12 years ago. And it also makes you the only person not related to me who has read both of my books. Well, to be fair, the most recent one hasn't come out yet. Oh, yeah, yeah. Good point. People have not had the opportunity to read it yet.

But they're both really beautiful. Have you always been interested in writing? I always have been. So I was born and raised in the Czech Republic until I was nine and I moved to Sweden. And I lived in Sweden until I was 15. And then I moved to Paris from 15 to 17. And then I moved to the United States. In short, I had to relearn language and culture four times.

So for a young budding writer, wannabe, it was a little bit of a challenge because I had to start over four times. with different languages. And I never went to school past ninth grade because at 15 I became a full-time model. So I missed quite a lot of learning proper punctuation and grammar kind of stuff. And also I did it in different languages. So it took me a while to just get around to being able to write in one language. Do you feel like you have a different personality in these different cultures or when you speak these different languages? You know what? That's a really great question. And yes, because I feel like I was a child in the Czech Republic, my brain sort of stops at nine. So in Czech, I'm a child. In Swedish, I'm a young teenager. In French,

I am a young woman. And then in English, I am for me that you know and that I know. We're going to talk a lot about your childhood, perceptions of aging, perceptions of beauty, things like that. But I'm curious while we're talking about your background and your experience and all of these different cultures, do you feel like these different places have different perceptions of what it means to be beautiful or how women are allowed to age in society? I would say they do. And I think, for example, the French are a little bit more lenient with age because in France you can be a well-put-together woman of a seasoned age, is what I like to call myself.

And you're still allowed to be sexy, which you're not. allowed to be in United States or in the Czech Republic. And the time that I grew up in Sweden was so incredibly gender balanced, so equal. It was probably the most gender equal country in the world at that point. I haven't visited Sweden as an older woman. So I'm not entirely sure. But from experience, older French women still get to be sexy while the rest of us don't. That's so interesting. It's hard because you're like, oh, what can I take from that? What can I learn from it? But it's almost not a problem you can fix internally.

You have to shift society at large. Yeah, and that's a pretty big shove. Yeah, it's not an easy one. Okay, so let's talk about your childhood for a little bit. You had this kind of crazy experience from the very beginning of your life of having this really big difference between how you were perceiving your life and how other people were perceiving your life. And I think that's been sort of a through note through all of your experiences. So can you talk a little bit about the story of your separation from your parents? Yeah, I'm going to try to make that one really quick.

It's such a long story. My parents left in 1968, which was during the Russian occupation. This is why the Ukraine thing struck us very hard when we heard about it because we're like, oh, history is repeating itself and we never thought we were going to see this again. But my parents left in 1968 and they were very young and they left in the motorcycle and they believed that they would go and find a better life and they left me with my grandmother because they thought that once they got out of the country, they could maybe have the Red Cross help them to get me. They were too young and too naive to sort of understand what they had actually done, which was to sort of accidentally lose their daughter. and they eventually got sent to Sweden from refugee camps in Austria and Italy. And then they found out that they couldn't get me, that it wasn't really all that easy.

And that the borders were closed and I couldn't come out and they certainly couldn't come back in because now they were criminals for having fled the country legally. And so they used the press to get me out. Like they were very photogenic, you know, a young, gorgeous couple. And they came up with this idea to do a hunger strike outside the Czech embassy in Stockholm. and sort of shed light on their plight. And it was like 72,000 Swedish people that signed onto their petition to get me back.

And then they started getting a lot of attention. And so they used the press, they use the media to raise awareness of their plight and of trying to get me back. And that didn't really work. Like nothing happened. They became sort of famous and I became sort of accidentally famous. Not that I knew it.

mind you, because all this time I'm living with grandma, and I was perfectly happy. My grandma spoiled me. I was a pretty happy kid. I thought my parents had left because they didn't want me, but it didn't really trouble me because grandma wanted me. So I was okay. And Swedish newspaper people would come down to the Czech Republic undercover to come and get pictures of me so that they would have photos for magazines. This was my sort of my first go at modeling where I'd be in front of a camera, little like my bangs cut sideways and holding my little frayed teddy bear and the photographers, of course, they couldn't speak chat. And they would point to me and go, you go, and I'd be like, oh, they want me to cry. So I'd be like, wait, would you do it? Would you cry?

Yeah. Did you have the thought process of like, I should give them what they want so they can get the photo they want so they'll leave me alone? Or like, what was the thought process? The thought process was the quicker I obey, the quicker I'll be able to get this over and done with and be able to go outside and play with my friends. It was so uninteresting to me and I didn't know why they were doing it. For a long time, I thought that that's what happened to kids. Like, I thought all kids had photographers come and take pictures of them on Sunday afternoon. I found out, I think it was like, I was talking to my girlfriend and she said, do you want to go out and play on Sunday? And I was like, well, no, you know, the photographers are coming.

Aren't your photographers coming? And she was like, what? And then eventually your parents were able to kind of get you back over to Sweden. Eventually, my mother did this whole kidnapping event, and it went awry, and she got busted, and she was put in jail, and then she was in house arrest. Then the Swedish press kept going. The story was even better once my mom got busted. And she was pregnant.

This was a good story now. So the Swedish media kept on it, and it was thanks to them. that eventually, when I was nine years old, we got kicked out of the country quite unceremoniously. Like, you no longer check, do not ever come back, piss off. And so we did. We moved to Sweden. And that was sort of your first brush with fame. And you've sort of been famous, although in a different way, obviously, since then on.

Yeah. In Sweden, I was, you know, the poor political refugee kid. So that's what I was known as. And guess what? That's not fun either. Yeah, I would not imagine that would be like the best way to become popular in a middle school. Yeah. I would get a lot of sort of patronizing pats on the head from the grownups.

But kids were like, ugh, you smell bad. You're a communist. You smell like a communist. That sort of stuff. Well, I find it really fascinating, though, because I feel like a lot of us grow up putting the concept of fame up on a pedestal. and from your very first experience with it, you were like, oh, this isn't probably all it's cracked up to be. So I'm curious how starting there and then really going to your life now, what your experience has been like with actually being famous in reality, like a little peek behind that curtain. There's an essay in my book about fame and about the way I see it as a sort of a shiny bubble.

It's like the famous person is encased in a shiny bubble. And so when you look at them, what you actually see is a reflection of yourself superimposed over them. People think that when you are famous, you get a voice. And you sort of do. It's like a megaphone thing. It kind of garbles it. It might be loud, but it's not super accurate. But fame isolates you is what fame does.

I think people think that when you, become famous, you become loved by more people. So therefore, being loved by more people means that you're happier. And in fact, there are very few people that get to know you and love you for who you are because people are just looking at you with their own assumptions of who they want you to be. And then when you don't live up to those assumptions, which you never really can because you're not a figment of their imagination, you're actually a person. It can be very lonely, can be very isolating. The number one rule of habits is to make the things that you want easier and the things that you don't want harder. Yet so many of us want to eat healthier, but so few of us actually take the steps to make eating healthier easier.

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So we glamorize fame. We also glamorize things like wealth and beauty and marrying a rock star. And you've experienced all of those things. Do you think all of those things are worth the hype? Do any of them live up to the hype? No. The most interesting people I've met were not famous. The famous are kind of predictable, to be honest with you.

They tend to speak a lot more than they listen. And money is wonderful because I grew up really poor. Money was a way of buying freedom for me. If I had money, then I wasn't trapped by my circumstances. I could get out of my circumstances. Kind of what you were saying with your anxiety. But I have met many a rich person, and I can safely say that they are no happier

than the rest of us who are not as wealthy. When you think of the rich people in the world that, you know, do they seem really happy to you? No, but I'm always like, man, if I had that money, I would use it in a way that I would be really happy. Yeah. Yeah. One does think that until you get there.

I actually think that we all have sort of a, finite reserve within ourselves of how much we can feel. Now, if you won the lottery and you just got $30 million tomorrow, I bet you'd be pretty psyched for, oh, I don't know, a month, two months, until you got everything that you always thought would make you happier. And then you'd find out you were exactly where you were before you won the money. No happier at all. And that's, I think what people have a really hard time understanding that more does not make your life better. You always think, if I only had a better car, if I had a bigger apartment, if I could take more vacations, or if I could take a vacation.

But then you get the money to take the vacation and get the car and guess what? Do you still have problems? You're still human. Well, and then you have this frustrating, I'm sure, experience. being like, oh, shoot, the thing that I always thought would make all of my problems go away, actually, didn't it? So what avenues I even left with? Like, I almost always have this light at the end of the tunnel, but somebody who reached the end of the tunnel and is like, oh, shit, it's still dark over here, doesn't have that little beacon of hope that I have.

Well, I think what you're talking about is this kind of a sense of purpose. And that's probably the best thing in life. I think it's better to cite for purpose in life, rather than than happiness because happiness is fleeting. You can't be happy all day. Purpose is a far better thing to aim for than happiness. Happiness comes with a sense of purpose, right? So if you feel like you're working towards something, that's a purpose. All the metaphors about it's not about reaching the top of the mountains, it's about the climb. And I know firsthand that this is true, because I've been on top of the mountain, I've been kicked off the mountain, I've been back on a different mountain. The view is always the same. It's always a little lonely at the top. And it's getting up

the mountain. That's the fun part. That's where the joy is, is striving upward. What would you say your sense of purpose is? You know, my sense of purpose used to be love. It was to be loved, because that is something that I felt like I had really missed out on as a child to be, unconsored. conditionally loved by somebody. And then I met my husband and gave up everything for love. And it worked for a certain amount of time. It was nice. And then that didn't last. And I had to rebuild everything from zero. I had to rebuild myself. And I think you're still catching me at a moment, which is three years after my husband passed, where I'm still in the process of rebuilding. So I'm not entirely sure.

I am trying to find the purpose. And a different purpose than to be loved. I'm trying to see if I can make loving my purpose. And that doesn't mean romantic love. That means just embracing the world and embracing the people in it and being able to feel as much empathy and love as I possibly can and connect to people. That's what makes me really happy is connections.

And this is why I love being on Instagram so much. I connect. I connect to all these people daily. And it's kind of saved my life, especially during COVID. That was in a pretty shitty place there for a while with the death of my husband and no money at COVID. It was a really dark place. And being able to connect to people who were also suffering and

we could sort of back each other up and just go, you're not alone either. It was really, really wonderful. Can we talk about some of that for a little bit, the death of your husband and sort of? We sure can. I fully expect to. You had this really insane experience with your husband of almost having your story with him rewritten after his death with how he had amended his will and having to kind of, I imagine reflect on what your relationship was at the time that he died in a way that I can't even get my head around of a person that you were married to for so, so long. So I was wondering if you could share a little bit about what happened and then how you make peace with something like that when the person that you would want to make peace with isn't even

there anymore to make peace with. Yeah. That's not an easy thing either. And I don't know that I'm perfectly over that one either. My husband died. His will arrived two days later and it said, I will not provide for my wife because she abandoned me. With the term abandonment, he was using a legal term. He might have felt abandoned. I felt abandoned by him, but he used it as a legal term, which was false. It was a lie. because the term abandonment in legal speak is when somebody leaves you for over a year's time and you cannot reach them. That's abandonment.

I was at home taking care of him after surgery. We were still living together. We were still having dinner every night. So this was a lie. So the first thing that just sort of knocked me back was the lie. He lied. Why would he do that? Why would he lie?

I spent my whole life with this guy. I was 19 when we met. All the money I met went into a joint account. I trusted him with my life, even though we were getting a divorce and we were separated and we had two completely separate lives the last two years that we still lived together. I still thought he was my North Star. I couldn't conceive of anything else. So it was such a blow.

It was such a betrayal of everything that I believed about. him and his love for me and our love and who we were as a couple. I'm not sure that I'm over that one yet. He's like just talking about it now. It's making me cry. So clearly I'm not over it. But I had seen my husband be vindictive before. And it's not only that he wrote me out of his will. He also wrote his two oldest children out of his will. And I know the reason he wrote them out of his because they weren't on his good side at that time. I had seen him be vindictive before, and I just stupidly, naively,

never thought that I would be on that side, that I would ever be the person he would turn against. But now in retrospect, it's not that big of his shock because I had seen him do this to other people when they displeased him. He would just write you off. But just as he wrote you off, like, you know what, you're dead to me.

If you came back a couple of months later and brought him a bag of jelly beans, you would be right back in his life like nothing happened. So I think it was a really stupid decision that was mostly prompted by his lawyers, his divorce lawyer specifically, and I am going to choose to believe that he would have amended it had he not died.

Because we have two really, amazing young men together, our children, and they adore their dad. He was the best dad in the world to then. So he was a little bit of everything, you know. He could be a really wonderful dad and a really loving husband, and then he could also be quite mean. An interesting thing that strikes me, and if I'm overstepping, just say so, but I was like, oh, you have to rewrite your whole relationship and story

because there's this sort of like surprise, vindictive twist in the plot of it. But as you're talking, I'm like, and actually like it sounds like you really knew who he was in its entirety. And this in some ways made sense with who he was. So in some ways, I'm like, maybe she didn't have to rewrite the story so much as make peace with the story that she knew existed. Liz, you just said that perfectly. It was just making peace with having loved someone like him for such a long time and as much as I did.

And then you write when you were 56 that you found yourself with no job, no job prospects, massive tax bills looming with no infusions of cash for another decade. And I'm curious if there's anything in hindsight that you would have done differently when you were younger to protect yourself from this future that you didn't see as possible. And if you have any advice to give to anybody out there who's listening. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes.

Unfortunately, I also know that I would have been an idiot if I had given myself. You would not have listened. I wouldn't have listened. I would have gone, Hey, old lady, you don't know what you're talking about. Love is never ending and this will never happen to me. And this is the advice that I disperse freely now, whether you'll like it or not.

Because I have Goddaughter. I have step-granddaughters. I have a lot of young women in my life. And the one thing that I kind of want to let all the younger women know is to never give up your sense of self, your autonomy to somebody that you love. That's what I did for my husband. Because then I lost myself and I had nobody when it ended. I wasn't even there because I had handed the purview of me. off to him. And I mean that monetarily and emotionally in all ways. Would I be able to go back in time

and say, listen, P, this is what my friends call me, you really need to attend to your own money. I know you have a complicated life and you're running the household and raising all these kids and taking care of the family and all of that. But make sure that you have your own bank account. Make sure that you're getting paid for that work, which is the housework and raising children, make sure that there is a kind of a balance. Because, well, first of all, I never thought we would get divorced. And then when we did, I thought, well, I'll get half, right? I mean, that's the law.

I'm going by law. So I'll get half. And all of a sudden it became like, well, you don't get half of this. You only get half of that. And you don't get a half of this. It's like, whoa, things get really complicated and weird and nasty. you know, both people are not in it like, hey, we love each other. Let's split up. Which is hard because that's what you picture. You picture like, I love this person so much.

How would they ever hurt me? It's hard to square that in your brain. I have a lot of girlfriends who stayed at home to take care of their kids. And then divorce rears its ugly head. And the husbands go, well, it's my money, not yours. You didn't do anything. You were just at home. Personally, being at, home taking care of the house and taking care of all the kids and the grandparents and the pets and everything else that was way more demanding. For me, modeling became a vacation. I was like, oh, please let me go to work one day so I can relax. That was, I think, probably the time where I like modeling the best because suddenly it turned into a really easy job in comparison.

But now when somebody's getting married and the woman's going, I'm going to stay at home and take care of my children. Yes, absolutely. If that's what you want to do, Great. What, freaking sit down with your husband and have him sign a document that you're getting paid for this. If you're going to stay at home, get paid. And you're sort of redefining your relationship with so many things that seems like in this point of your life. You have this book coming out. You're in a different sort of dating situation than you've been in for these 30 years that you were.

That's for sure. You were married. 33. 33 years that you were married. And I'd love to talk about your relationship with beauty and how that's changed over time because not only were and are you a really beautiful woman, but also you're a woman who gets paid to be a beautiful woman, which I think is different than a lot of people who just identify as a beautiful woman. So you have had society telling you for almost your entire life that your value comes from your appearance. How has that. impacted how you think about yourself as you get older? Not very well.

Obviously, aging sucks for somebody who has made their entire life based on beauty, right? And when I was invited to this rarefied world of beauty, I was a picked-on communist kid in Sweden. I was 14 and a half. And so when I got the offer to go and model in Paris, I would have had to be crazy to go, no, I want to stay in Sweden and keep getting bullied. And never mind a fashion model. So I went to Paris at 15 and then that became my life. That's why I have often termed myself an accidental supermodel.

I didn't mean to do that. I didn't even mean to stay in the job that long. I thought, oh, I'll get in and I'll make some money and I'll put it aside and then I can do what I really love, which is art and books. But it turns out that it's rather addictive, you know, to. be called beautiful and to be paid a ton of money for it. It wasn't all unpleasant. So that was my life, fortuitous events in the universe that just deposited me in the right place at the right time. And then when I got married, I had children. My husband didn't really want me to model because he said it was beneath me. Apparently the only job that wasn't beneath me was to stay at home and take care of

things. He didn't mind that I wrote because it kept me at home. So that was something that he was supportive of, except he never actually read anything I wrote. So then I became a stay-at-home mom. I don't ever feel like I necessarily elected to stay at home per se. It's just that my husband didn't really want me to do modeling. He didn't really want me to do movies because if it had me kissing another guy, then he would have a fit about it. So I wasn't really allowed to do that. And movies where I was not required to be anybody's love interest were not that many. And so I gave up my career for love. Love was much more important. My husband was more important. My family was more important. And that's something that I don't regret exactly. I am just more, I'm just conscious that I could

have had both. I'm curious, I heard an interview with Gwyneth Paltrow once and she was talking about how as she got older, she had to figure out ways to find her value in other things because as somebody who had been lauded for her beauty for so long, she hadn't put that same care into other things. And I'm curious what your experience has been. Like you talk about in the book how we become invisible because society is trained to overlook the true beauty that everybody has in favor of things like prettiness and youth. And I think that's such a beautiful thing to come to terms with on a personal level. I can be like, oh, I'm truly beautiful. This is great. But then when you go out into the world and people aren't giving you the same level of attention because you don't have the same

level of youth, how do you grapple with that? Well, I grapple with it. That's exactly what I'm doing. I am grappling with it quite publicly. I really did only make money off of the way I looked. But I was fortunate, weirdly fortunate in that I started off as being ugly. In Sweden, I was the ugly kid, the kid that could never get a date. And then I became beautiful. And so when I started fading out of you, I was like, I already know this spot. Like, I've been here before. You know, it's not like I grew up a fabulous, admired little beautiful girl that had just been beautiful her whole life and then lost it. It's been ups and downs. But also coming into my age, the beauty of being middle-aged is all the stuff we know and how much less we care

about other people's opinions. Other people's opinions are not that hurtful anymore. this self-awareness, self-knowledge, that's really great. And even having an idea that true beauty, and again, I'm not talking about the cliche of like your inner beauty, because of course the inner beauty, everybody that's a good person has the inner beauty. But the outer beauty, we're actually all beautiful on the outside as well. But I didn't realize that until my later years, when I started looking at the world in a different way.

And I started looking at it more carefully, maybe because nobody was looking at me anymore. And so I had the time to be introspective and really think about things and really analyze things and that kind of connecting the dots. I mean, like pulchritude has been my entire life from 15 and on.

And so my friends always made fun of me because they'd say you can look at a woman and identify her strengths and her weaknesses looking wise, like instantly. To me, it's like a math problem that I can solve immediately. And I always took a great deal of pleasure in that when I was younger, maybe with a little bit more malice, where I would diminish a woman because she was a little bit of this or she was a little bit of that. And then later on with kind of great pleasure of looking at a woman going, you have these amazing eyelashes and you have this. As long as you're aware that you possess that beauty, I will see it. You know, not everybody will see, not the entire world because we have been conditioned to see beauty as pretty or as attractive, this shiny, glossy, smooth thing,

when that's sort of middle of the road, right? That's just pretty. I mean, beauty is intense. Jagged rocks and ocean, that's beautiful, right? You don't just have to have a plain old blue sky with a yellow sun and the flower for it to be beautiful. I mean, in nature, beauty comes in every installation. So too bad that we have whittled it down to just one

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a fancy hotel, but maybe even better. It's made travel actually worse for me, fair warning, because my own bed at home is like nicer than the nicest hotels. It just feels so good. I get so excited to get into it every single night. It's time to upgrade your sleep with Bowlin Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bolandbranch.com slash Liz Moody with code Liz Moody. That's Bullen Branch, B-O-L-L-L-B-O-L-B-L-B-Ranch.com slash Liz Moody. Use code Liz Moody to unlock 15% off, exclusions apply. You balance wanting that very innate desire we have for the societal applause, though, and then also wanting to create our own definition of what's worthy of applause.

Like, I think about this every single time I put on makeup or I dress in a certain way or I try to take pictures that look attractive in a certain way. Or when I get Botox, I'm like, oh, look at me. I'm just playing into societal's definition of beauty, even though I don't want. want it to be that. And you know what? That's human nature. I do the same thing.

I want to look my age and be proud of being my age and get the idea out there that you don't need Botox to be beautiful and that you don't need makeup to be beautiful and you don't need hair dye to be beautiful. Yeah, I'm dyeing my hair and I'm putting on makeup and I might not have Botox, but I've certainly done every laser I can get my hands on. So look, we're like these tiny little islands in that very big sea. see that is not necessarily an agreement with us. So we really do lose the seat at the main table as we age. The only way they're going to let you stay at the table is if you stop reminding

them that you're aging, which means you have to unage. Well, that's depressing. Yeah, it is. And look, there are women that are letting themselves age and show wrinkles and show sags and still dare to feel attractive. And there's a little bit of movement on that. There wasn't any. Now at least there's some. But again, that's a pretty heavy load to carry. That's kind of standing up against also societal values of beauty.

And one or two people can't do that by themselves. So I don't think we should feel guilty for being conflicted. And then you posed nude for Sports Illustrated at 53, I want to say? The first time, yeah, that would have been after Rick and I were separated, because obviously that was my claim on my own body. I was like, that's it. My body belongs to me and I do what I want. Ha! So, yeah, that was my first nude shoot.

And then I just like did everything naked. The more than the merrier. And you say that you feel totally confident and comfortable nude. Can you speak to where that comes from and for somebody who's listening and they wish they could feel more comfortable? being nude, especially as their body ages or after having children, what would you say to them? You have to understand that for me, in my sexually formative years, I was brought up in a country where nudity is normal. Sweden. Like to advertise Nivia's skin cream, you'd have a fully naked woman in the magazine. Like that was normal. It wasn't titillating. It was just nudity. We were nude and free. Hello.

I mean, in the park, in the summer, women would throw off their tops just the same as men. I saw women driving topless in cars in the summer when it got hot. It just seemed to not be a big deal. So I inherited this sort of natural approach. There's nothing wrong with a nude body. And then I came to America and I was like, oh, there is? Why? And I just never really digested that one because I learned that as a child and I refused to believe that that there is something wrong.

with a naked human body. But I've stretch marks. I have cellulite, hanging skin, like everybody else. Nobody looks perfect at this age. But I look at my body and go, you know, it's accomplished so much. It's born children.

It's fed children. It's taken me through the jungle. I mean, my body's an amazing machine. And sometimes it malfunctions a bit, but, you know, hey, it's getting me through. And I have a friend who actually was helping me with a book. She was my reader on this book. and she is a essay writer herself.

And she is a Harvard-educated chaplain. And she did chaplaincy for a while. And in her book, there's a little paragraph, and she's speaking about people's regrets on their deathbeds. And she talks about one would imagine that a lot of the regrets would be like, oh, I didn't give my children enough attention or money was too important and then I missed my family,

you know, like those kind of big things that we think we're going to regret. And she said an overwhelming amount of regret from women were, I didn't value my body. Because now I'm about to lose it. I'm about not to have this anymore. And I didn't value it.

It doesn't matter what it looked like. I missed feeling the wind on my breasts, and I missed feeling cool water on my vagina. I missed out. And now this is going to be taken away from me. And I'll never have a chance to do this again. That was the biggest regret. Wow.

That hits me, like right in the chest. That's a really powerful sentiment. You didn't need to change how you lived your life, though. You were like already sort of having the cool wind on your breast at that point. Yep. And on my foot and everywhere else it would go. And, you know, I am so happy that I did and that I do because that is. is one regret I'm not going to have when this body finally calls it quits on me.

It will have felt everything it could have felt and it will have been celebrated for having carried me this far. I love that. Okay. I want to talk about anxiety. Because you're a sister in arms here. I am. And when I was at my worst, when I was like laying in bed, unsure if I would ever be able to get out of bed, I would literally Google famous people with anxiety because I was like, oh, if they can go on,

this talk show with anxiety, I must be able to go to the grocery store. You know, it was very comforting for me to think about the fact that other people who I viewed as successful or envy-inducing in any way also had these struggles. So I would love to hear about your first experience with anxiety and what kinds of situations spark it. Well, my first experience with anxiety was a full on panic attack when I was 10 years old at my father's house and I thought I was going to die. And I also didn't really know my father. I was scared to wake him up and tell him that I thought I was dying. So I just crawled into a bathroom and waited to die. That was not a lot of fun. And then they just kept happening anxiety attacks. And I misdiagnosed myself with a heart condition from my mother's

textbooks because my mother was studying to be a nurse. So I took the occasion to look up what my symptoms were and I went oh I think I have like atrial fib and it's going to kill me and then for most of my childhood and just waited to die I was like yeah I know this is going to get me at some point but I didn't dare to mention it to anybody because again I kind of felt like I was undesirable enough as it was and if I told somebody I also had a heart condition then they would just like get rid of me so I was hanging on and that of course does not make anxiety any better so I really struggled with it in Paris at 15. But again, I just kept thinking, yeah,

this is the thing that's going to eventually kill me, this weird heart disease thing that I have. And then it wasn't until I met my husband at 19. When I said something about it, it's like I have these things that happen to me sometimes where I feel like I'm going to pass out. And I described it. And he looked at me and he went,

those are anxiety attacks. And I have them too. I could have fallen in love with him just for that. Yeah. I'm like, no wonder 33 years. Like if somebody validated that feeling for me after so long, I would fall straight into their arms. Pretty much.

Yeah. And then that made it better because we both had them. So we could understand each other. And I went to a doctor at that point because I was always just as scared to go to the doctor and tell them of my heart condition and they would go, yep, you have six months left. I didn't want to hear that. So when my husband said, it's anxiety. It's not physical.

Then I went to a doctor. The doctor confirmed it, yes, it's anxiety. And then I would get one and I could just go, it's happening. And he'd go, I got you. And then he would have a panic attack and I go, don't worry, I got you. And then, of course, they would get a lot better because the anxiety about the anxiety would then anticipate. Are there tools or practices that have been especially useful for you over the years

in managing your anxiety? Absolutely. Here's some, like, really silly ones to the big guns. So I would say my silliest one that weirdly works is a fold-out hand fan and a spray bottle because I get agoraphobic, I get claustrophobic, I get all sorts of interesting phobias. If I spray myself with a mist of something and then fan myself, I think the movement of the wrist sort of puts your brain into a slightly, different rhythm and it usually calms down my panic or kind of makes this anxiety subside. It's very effective. It's like weirdly effective. Meditation, obviously meditation. Even if you just do five minutes a day over a length of time, I have to say when I started doing it and I was like, well, this is really not doing anything. It's like not helping. It's like fine. I feel fine for the 30 minutes that I meditate. And I'm the same old sweaty me that I always on. But now when you actually keep doing it every day religiously, about four weeks in, I started noticing a difference in my just daily anxiety levels,

like coming down a little bit. Doesn't mean that I'm perfectly calm. It just means it's a little bit more bearable. It kind of files the edge off. Do you do 30 minutes a day or what does your practice look like? Well, when I was really freaking out, I started doing an hour a day. And then when I got myself a little more under control. And I can do 30 minutes or 20 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, anything, as long as it's consistent. That's the consistency. And you do a mantra or do you do? I do all different kinds.

I do mindful, which is just sitting and listening for sounds. I do guided imagery with an ad called Insight. Insight timer. Yeah, Insight timer. It's awesome. I love them so much. I talk about them all the time. I have the paid one because they have sound bass.

and you can download them to use when you don't have internet. And I love listening to them when I fly because I'm a very anxious flyer. So I'll put on a sound bath on my headphones. And you should listen to the Insight timer. I think it's like Sonic Yogi sound bath. Put it on when you fly. It's a game changer. I will do that too.

And then, of course, exercise. That also cuts anxiety down by a lot. Whenever I do work out, my anxiety is much more manageable that day. And again, it's about consistency. and sometimes it's impossible. Sometimes you can't. You don't have the time to meditate and exercise. You're traveling.

You have a job to do. It's like you can't do it all. And then for the big guns, there's always clonopin, which I keep in my bag. So if I'm really fucking losing my mind, I know there's a pill that can help me. And then you took Lexa Pro for a few years, right? Yeah. What was your experience with that? Kind of great and kind of not great.

because it was the first time in my life where my anxiety actually did go away. But it was so gradual. I kept saying it's like if you lived in a room with buzzing neon lights your whole life, you're not aware of them. And like six weeks after I started taking Lexa Pro, the buzz just kind of faded away. And I realized there was no more buzz. And I went, oh, oh, it's quiet.

Oh, wow, this is different. This is a different world. This is a different space. Unfortunately, it also turns out that cutting out that buzz cut out my desire to be creative, write, paint. Like I was, I kind of felt like a stepford wife. I was like, I'm good. What's for dinner? Should I make a cake?

My husband and my kids liked me a lot better. Suddenly I was like really nice. I wasn't getting into fights anymore because if somebody said something that I would have normally found offensive and made a big stink about now I was like okay I'm sorry you feel that way and I wasn't until my best girlfriend she actually freaked out on me because it was one of those occasion where she was trying to get some point across and I was like I'm sorry you feel that way I hope you feel better tomorrow and she just lost her mind she's like I don't even know who you are anymore this is not you this is not the person that's my friend like you've become a zombie

And she kind of stormed out on me. And I went, poor woman, she's really having some problems. And then little by little kind of trickled in when I was going, I think she's right. This is not me. I mean, maybe it's a new and improved me, but it's not me. And I wanted to at least see the old me before I decide to get rid of her all together. So I weaned off, which was super traumatic.

we end off to the old me and I went oh I see the difference the old me is white-knuckling life a lot and there's a lot of pain and unpleasant feelings involved but there's also more joy there's just highs and lows and I prefer that existence that's just a personal decision I prefer a bit of suffering, if then my joys can be more acute too. Did it ease the suffering in a way to have it be your choice? Like, I feel like part of the thing that makes anxiety hard, it makes a lot of things hard is this sense that it's happening to you. It's out of your control.

And in this case, you were choosing that choice. I was choosing to go back to anxiety. Yeah. I was choosing to accept myself as an anxious person. Yeah. except is a really beautiful way to put it, to be like, I have viewed the alternative, and I wonder if viewing the alternative actually made it more possible to accept the whole part of yourself that included the anxiety. That's hard to say, obviously, but thanks to modern medicine, I had a

choice. Yeah. For us anxious people, we don't generally have a choice about how we're going to feel about what and when. And so you actually can have a choice. choice. So yeah, you're probably right. It probably made it easier because I took it on. I was like, you know what? That bag with all the shit in it, I'll take that one. Yeah, it feels ironically empowering to make that choice. I'm curious, this is like something I tell myself is that anxiety will naturally get better as I get older. Do you feel like that's true? I wish I could lie to you. Just because you understand the world more. I don't know, you find more peace. I don't know. You find more peace. I don't know. It's something that I tell myself a lot. Yeah, but the anxiety is not about that. It's

not even about finding peace or finding happiness or any of that. I don't really know what it is, but I think it's the way we were kind of baked. You know, it just got baked into you as a child, and then that's it. And I do think that the greatest thing that I could do with my anxiety is to accept it and just go, uh-huh. I am an anxious person. And I will have panic attacks. And if you sit in the car with mean traffic, chances are you going to see me have a panic attack. So letting you know, out comes my fan and my spray bottle. I love that. I love that you've lived such a full life anyways.

Even you just said offhand that you weren't the best flyer and you've traveled all over the world and done photo shoots and had adventures. And I find that really heartening that it doesn't seem like you've let being a person with anxiety limit your life in any way. Well, this is, I think, where we get to the one thing that I'm really proud of in myself, which is, I think I'm brave. I think I have a lot of courage because I will be really afraid and not let the fear win. I'm a woman who cannot resist a challenge. And when the challenge is, is the fear going to win? P, is the fear going to win? Are you really not going to do that because you're going to let fear win? And I'm like, uh-uh, nope, not going to win. And it might suck, but I'm not letting it win. I love that. I love that. Are there any other wellness tools or practices that you incorporate into your life regularly?

I believe in being very moderate. Do a little bit of everything. And you'd be happy and presumably as healthy as you're going to get. I also think that people that are like real health fanatics never actually end up being all that healthy in the long run. Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Moderate it a little bit. You know, be mostly healthy. Yeah, I completely agree.

Could you just leave us with one thing that you feel like you wish you could have done a little bit differently in your life and one thing that you're really proud of that you think you really got right? You know, to be honest, I have a lot of regrets about the way I was, about things I did. I haven't always been a good person. I used to be a very judgmental person. I could be a cruel person. I could be very vain and narcissistic. I have all those regrets, but at the same time, I'm kind of happy that I have them

because the regrets are allowing me to no longer do that, to no longer be that person. If I didn't regret it, then I wouldn't have never grown up. So I say yay to regrets. Regrets are great. They are what shows you what path you should be taking. And the good side of it is I have regrets and thank God I have regrets. Because I'm a way nicer person now than I've ever been.

And I'm only going to get better because I finally get it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us all today, Pauline. I really appreciate it. How much do I owe you, Dr. Liz? For this intense therapy. I hope it wasn't too intense. No, it was fun.

But whoa, I do feel like I got some, I offloaded. So stop. I absolutely loved this conversation with Paulina. She was so honest and so vulnerable. And also she made me want to go outside and get some fresh air on my boobs, which is just the hallmark of any great conversation, I would say. If you're new here, make sure that you're subscribed so you don't miss out on any future episodes. We have amazing ones coming up.

including a really fun astrology episode with our 2023 forecast and another one about how literally anyone can instantly become smarter. So subscribe so you do not miss out on anything. Okay, I love you and I will see you next week on the next episode of the Healthier Together podcast. If you have headaches, allergies, brain fog, skin irritation, or you've been dealing with hormone issues, you are especially going to want to listen to this ad. Every single thing that I just listed has been linked to chemicals and household cleaners. One study found that regular use of cleaning sprays was associated with a lung function decline comparable to smoking 10 to 20 cigarettes per day.

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