The Liz Moody Podcast - How I Learned To Love My Body—Katie Sturino on Setting Boundaries, Overcoming Childhood Shame, And How She Has Fun Without Alcohol

Episode Date: August 11, 2021

Today, we have a brand new episode of How I Learned To Love My Body featuring the amazing Katie Sturino. Katie is an entrepreneur, digital influencer and body acceptance advocate. She’s also the founder of Megababe, one of my favorite product lines, which I think does a beautiful job of addressing issues like sweaty thighs or chest acne that so many of us deal with but nobody talks about. On this episode, we talk about: how she went from hating taking photos of herself to getting comfortable in front of the camera her best tips for taking photos of yourself that you’ll like the specific steps she took to overcome her body shame how to use social media to make you feel good about your body how to forgive your parents for body issues that began in childhood how to set boundaries with other people talking about your body how her relationship with her body impacted her dating and relationships how to be sex positive in any body the surprising things she’s learned when recreating celebrity looks what she does when she’s having bad body moments how she doesn’t get embarrassed about thigh sweat, foot odor, and other “gross” or “not girly” things her alcohol allergy and how she has fun without alcohol I hope this episode helps you learn to love your beautiful body! I’d love to hear any aha moments you have as you’re listening or thoughts you have, so definitely screenshot and tag @lizmoody and @katiesturino. PS: My Patreon is live! You can join Green Smoothie Society and get access to ALL of my green smoothie recipes and advice AND you can subscribe to A Very Moody Morning, my brand new morning show podcast, which drops once weekly and features casual, fun convo, super intimate Q&As, and more. Get all the deets at patreon.com/lizmoody. This episode is sponsored by Seed, the makers of one of my all-time favorite supplements. Their Seed Daily Synbiotic is a game changer—it contains both pre- and probiotics, survives INTACT all the way into your gut, AND contains the most studied and powerful strains of probiotics out there. You can get 15% off of your first month’s supply of Seed’s Daily Synbiotic by going to seed.com and using the code LIZMOODY. This episode is sponsored by Paleovalley, who make incredibly high quality supplements. If you’d like to check out their Turmeric Complex, Vitamin C, Neuroeffect, or any of Paleovalley’s other amazing products, head over to paleovalley.com and use the code LIZM for 15% off. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthyer Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a cookbook author and longtime journalist. And I have news. It only took about 5,000 of you asking for this, but I have finally launched my Green Smoothie Society. I thought about doing an e-book for all of my smoothies, but I wanted to be able to update it constantly so that you could always get new and exciting flavors and functions and would never be bored. Green Smoothie Society has every single smoothie recipe that I've ever created in an easily searchable form.

You can look by ingredient like cacao or raspberries, whatever you're craving or have on hand. And I will be regularly updating it with tons of new options. You can also submit your smoothie requests and questions. It's basically your one-stop shop to become a full-on smoothie queen like me. You know I am obsessed with my smoothies, but it's because they're life-changing. They take five minutes to make. They require almost no cleanup, especially if you just leave your blender out for your husband to clean whenever he notices it. And by 9 a.m.

You will have had more vegetables than most people eat in an entire day. You feel superior. You feel so good. And they taste good too. So huge, huge fan. I am so excited by how many of you I've already gotten on this smoothie train. And I am so excited to get even more of you on it with Green Smoothie Society. Also, I've launched a weekly morning show podcast called a very moody morning.

I was very pleased with that when I came up with that. So a very moody morning. If you love the Sunday Q&A's that I do on Instagram or you wish that this pod that you're listening to right now also had shorter, way chattier, more intimate and vulnerable episodes. You will love these. I will answer questions, tell stories, invite on some very special people in my life as guests. It's like the type of podcast that I love to put on when I'm making my smoothies or doing my makeup in the morning. It just feels like I'm like hanging out with a good friend and having a really juicy conversation. You can find both

Green Smoothie Society and a very moody morning over on Patreon.com slash Liz Smoothie. I am so excited for this brand new community and to get to connect with you guys in this deeper, beautiful way. I launched it on Sunday and I've just been blown away, literally from the bottom of my heart, blown away by the response. It's made me cry many times, probably too many times, but I'm an emotional little flower. And it just feels really special to get to have this, this community with all of you. So to everybody who's already joined, thank you. I love you.

I am so excited to embark on this adventure together and to everybody who is interested and wants to check it out, who wants to check out the community and perhaps join up with all of us. That is patreon.com slash Liz Moody. So Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash Liz Moody, like my name. And if you're worried, don't worry. Nothing is going to change at all here. You're still going to get amazing interviews with world-class experts, all of the core series like Thriving Through Anxiety, Ask the Doctor, Healthy Cooking Secrets, Everything on the Patreon is just pure bonuses. In fact, today we have a brand new episode of How I Learn to Love My Body featuring the amazing Katie Storino. Katie is an entrepreneur, a digital influencer, and body acceptance advocate.

She's also the founder of Megababe, which is one of my all-time favorite product lines. I think they just do this really beautiful job of addressing issues like sweaty thighs or chest acne that so many of us deal with, but nobody talks about. We actually talk about in the episode how she deals with like the embarrassment around those types of things because I think so many people are like, you know, stinky. I'm not allowed to have stinky feet. I'm supposed to be a pretty like soft, good smelling woman. And she's like, nah, dude, I'm a human.

I have stinky feet. I have stinky farts. And that's okay. So if you're looking for affirmation of your stinkier body parts, you will get that in this episode. We also talk about how she learned to draw boundaries with her family around her body, including how she forgave her mother for the harder parts of her childhood. The specific steps that she took to overcome shame around her body, what she does when she's having bad body moments, her alcohol allergy,

and how she has fun without booze, which I know so many of you are going to be interested in, because so many people ask me about my intentional drinking journey all the time, and so much more. If you love this convo or my How I Learn to Love Your Body series in general, please share this episode with friends or people that you think would benefit from the content or consider writing a super quick review on your favorite podcast platform. They're both really wonderful ways to help spread the word about the pod so I can continue to get amazing guests and do these types of interviews, and it is so, so, so appreciated from the bottom of my heart.

Okay, I love you. You are wonderful. Let's get into the episode. All right, Katie, I was just telling you, I'm such a fan of yours. I've been a fan of yours since the Toast's day, since, like, I feel like you were Toast PR manager sidekick. And now, like, you're the main story, which is equally entertaining and wonderful. That's pretty much exactly how it happened. I was truly Toast Momager-Dogger, and then, and now I'm in front of the camera.

It's very interesting. Yeah, that's actually, I was reading recently that you, like, you hadn't gotten in front of the camera until a shoot with Amelia Dime. Was it with man repeller at the time? Yes, it was with man repeller. Toast was there to do a shoot for NARs. And I ended up chatting with Amelia, who was like the creative director of man repelder at the time. And I, I kind of pitched a story about getting dressed in a curve. everybody and how to dress for summer.

And she was into it. And it was, it was truly the beginning of everything. I mean, Amelia has been at like, she's, she's, if something has happened, it's because she was there. Can you talk a little bit about how you went from like being not comfortable in front of the camera to be like you photograph yourself essentially for a living. I mean, you also write and tell stories and all that, but you're in front of the camera all the time now.

So how did that happen? God, it was not easy. I think people are like, oh, I don't like taking photos of myself and I don't think I could do this. And that's exactly how I was. I was when I started doing this and when I did that first shoot and then when I started my Instagram account and I had it, I took about a year to get in the rhythm of posting and being authentic and feeling comfortable putting myself out there because when I started this in 2000 and I think 2014.

The Instagram, the Instagram game was much more about like the right aesthetic, a breakfast spread, like great floral arrangement. And I didn't know how to do any of that. And I was also very uncomfortable being photographed. So I really had to just keep doing it until I got comfortable. Do you think like,

this is a weird question, but when you think about being photographed, are you like, it's about like learning your angles and blah, blah, blah, or is it about learning to be comfortable regardless of what angle you're at? Oh, that's a great question. Truthfully, it's about learning your angles. I don't think that most people are okay with just any photo that is snapped of them. Mm-hmm.

Well, we have like a certain idea about the way we look. Yeah. It's not necessarily even a body thing. I think, I think like there, we don't even know that we have a side that we prefer or that we have a certain way we like to portray ourselves. And that's, that's when you really get down to the real models because the real models can can get photographed from any angle and kind of look the same or like have the right look. Yeah. That's, I mean, I, for me, it's like literally I take thousands of photos of myself and then I'm like, okay, I found like a few that work.

And whenever anybody's like, I don't like myself in photos. I'm like, yes, but have you taken literally 1700 to find one that you like? Yeah, you really do have. Yeah, you have to find out. And the three that you find out of the 1700, there's something you're doing in there that you're like, this is how I'd like to love. Yeah, I know someday in my influencer career, I'll evolve to the point where I can pinpoint what that is and redo it.

But I'm, I'm not there yet. Do you have any like hot tips for taking photos that will like of ourselves, like little things we could replicate. That's exactly what it is. I think that you need to do you need to play with like take photos until you find what you like. I also think when I what what I used to do all the time is just I would smile my real smile like my real laughing human smile and and really like you don't that's why no celebrities on the red carpet are like really like they're not doing that. You know they're like doing their soft smile face because there's like it totally changes your face and there's a time and a place for like a great big smile like that but you kind of learn that that's not how it is that's so interesting so it's like it's more like the do you do that that trick where you put your tongue up on the roof of your mouth and like you do like the the little red carpet smile versus like a full on your real i think i'm still stuck in mary kate and ashley olson prune do you know do you know

I totally know. Yeah, absolutely. I was obsessed with them. So I remember everything about them. Yeah. I, the same way. So you're like, you're making the Percy smile. Yeah, I'm still per smiling. And I'm not sure if that face is still even like an in-faced mix. It's trendy. Yeah, no, it looks, it looks beautiful on you. So it's working. Okay. So let's like rewind back in time a little bit. I would love to hear a little bit about your journey with your body as you grew up as you grew older. Just kind of walk us through the timeline of it a little bit. I, yeah, I would say that I, I always felt like I was the biggest person in the room or that I was too big or just not the right size.

I grew up in Wisconsin. So I didn't grow up in the middle of Manhattan, which is where I live now. I think people were even had even larger bodies in Wisconsin than when I moved to to New York, which was a total shock for me because I was like, whoa, I thought that, you know, my little high school friends were small and this is a whole new level to aspire to in terms of how tiny you can make your body. And then I would say that I struggled for about 10 plus years in New York, just always feeling too big, trying every single delivery died. at workout class, I mean, everything.

And really never achieving the size that I know was going to be acceptable by the fashion community at least, which is like a two, a four, that kind of thing. So I've always struggled. And then it was really through that man-repeller shoot that I was able to accept myself because it was the first time, it was my big aha moment. The first time that I realized, like, holy X. I don't know if I can swear on this podcast, but yeah, swear away. Oh, good.

I said, holy shit, my body is not the problem. And that's what we say in the book because I truly thought like, this is just something that's wrong with me. And like, why can't I just be normal like the rest of the world? So before you did that man repelperal shoot, did you kind of just think you would be like a dog momager would be like your career path and like doing PR and stuff like that forever? Kind of. Yeah. I mean, I am an entrepreneur at heart. I did, I started my own company,

my own PR company and I started the toast account and ran that. So I think I am creative and I think I am an entrepreneur, but I didn't see myself getting in front of the camera at all. And that and again, like I said before, it took a long time to make that adjustment. You say in your, yeah, I mean, I, I, yeah, but like it's just, it's so interesting now to see you as like, the founder of Megababe and the author and the podcast. It's just like it's so interesting, the direction that your career has gone and how incredibly phenomenally successful you've been in it to think that wasn't even like that it almost went in that direction by chance, although obviously all the stuff that's happened

since then was very intentional. You know what I mean? Yes. I agree with you. It's just crazy. You say in your book that the more comfortable you got talking about your body's shape, the more you started to overcome it. Can you expound on that concept?

I think that's really interesting. I think that shame means that we carry for many people and for me, it means you carry this private secret that gets bigger and bigger and harder to, harder to confront the longer you keep it inside. And I think that that's true across the board with any shame. When we say it out loud, even to one person, And sometimes it just becomes less scary. And I think that that's what happened to me.

Once I said, like, hey, like, I think my body, I think I have a freak body that like, like, I can't even believe this is my body. Can you? And, and I was met with like a, I was met with like a bunch of, yeah, that's what I look like too. I, I was like, wait, maybe I don't have a freak body. So I think that that was really a big thing for me was, was being able to get brave enough to say it out loud and then being met with such, I don't know, basically, what do they say,

find your tribe. I think I just, I had no idea that this world existed. That's interesting. Well, with that in mind, does like, does social media feel like net positive or net negative to you then? Because it's a place where everybody can kind of like, okay. Well, because you can speak your truth and say, and I think even people without following like can post pictures themselves and see that nothing bad happens and all of that.

Yeah. But it also is like where a lot of the the quote unquote bodies that like a lot of people aspire to have come from those images, you know? That's where you're, that's where you have to be responsible for who you follow. And you can curate your feed and you can curate what you look at and what you see on a regular basis. So I say that you, it's up to you to make sure that the imagery and the, messages that you're getting every day, that you're intentional with that.

Yeah. So follow you. And I think it's interesting when people say that they follow, they follow like, they'll follow like an Australian bikini model for body inspiration. And that's a body you're just never going to have unless you like cut your head off and have it put on a new body. I don't know why that's body inspiration. I think it feels more like like daily shame.

Yeah, that's like something I've been coming to terms with my own body is that like there's times where my body is more in shape or less in shape or a little heavier, a little lighter. But there's also just like certain parameters. My body is never going to exit. And I was able to realize that about like my height early on. But for some reason, the rest of it, like it's a very recent realization that they're like, nope, this is just sort of my shape. And that's what's going to look like. Yes. Yeah.

And let's work with that. I mean, that's it, right? Yeah. I mean, it is it, it's hard because it's like we're told so much that like if you eat this, if you do this workout, like all of the messaging around our bodies is around the idea that you could go from X to Y. So to be like, I can go from X minus to X plus is it's a different way of looking at it, you know?

I think that I and I think that sometimes if you look deeper into that, I've seen people post about this, someone is benefiting from. that messaging. Someone is benefiting from saying that if you are like an apple-shaped body and you that you can turn into Gwyneth Poudreau if you just do these workouts and eat this diet. And there's just there's a lot of times there's just no truth to it. And it's also an unhealthy way to look at things. Do you ever get like jealous though of people who were, they're, you know, they were born into a different body. I mean, I guess it's privilege like so many other privileges in the world,

but you're just exposed to, you know, you're walking red carpets and then you're in New York, you're hanging out with movie stars, like people with crazy bodies. How do you get jealous? Do I get jealous? That's a great question that I've never been asked. And it's not so much of jealousy as it is a recognition because I loved growing up, I loved models. I was big into the 90s models.

I've just, I've always been a fan of models. Um, and that body type is very specific. So when I see a woman who just has like that type of body, that body that I could never have, it's more of an appreciation. I'm like,

I, I really like, I just, I'm like, wow, love that. Like, look at her.

She's stunning. Like there's, there's just more of an appreciation of it than a, than a jealousy thing. Oh, I definitely used to get jealous. And then I think that that would push me into more disordered eating and like fat, like crazy fad workouts and stuff like that. But really, I'm just,

I'm never going to have that body. I have the height. I will never have that frame. And it's just been like the process of, of really accepting that has made you go from jealousy to appreciation. I would say so. I think the appreciation is always there, but then eventually that appreciation that would come back to me and be like, but why can't you have that? Hmm. Interesting. I loved the letter that you shared in your book to your mom. I would love what we're still kind of like talking about childhood and your relationship with your body as you were aging or growing older. Can you talk a little bit about how you relationship with your parents,

how you view your body. And specifically, I just love the forgiveness that you seem to have found, which I don't think a lot of people have yet. Oh, it's tough, right? You got to do it. And my mom is like so many moms and so many women. It's not, it's not our fault and it's not their fault that we've been taught to think bad things about our body or to think incorrectly or to have everything through a judgmental lens. That's not our fault. And that's what I'm actively working on changing, you know, day by day, minute by minute in my own community and through my own work and through the people with the people

in the body, except in space. Because I'm not the only one out there doing this. So as that voice and that message gets louder, I hope that there's change for the future. And I hope we can catch women at any stage of their life. and finally give them some peace about their body. That being said, this conversation started about one minute ago. So I think that there's a lot of people who need more time to process it. And I also find that women, especially older women, are more combative, I would say.

It's, it's, they don't want, they don't want you to tell them to accept their bodies. They don't want to hear that, some of them. they want to say, no, I will continue to fight these five pounds. I want to fight these five pounds always. Why? Why do you like that sounds miserable? Why is that? Well, because I think it takes a minute to unlearn all the things that you've been taught.

And without it, who are you? What are you going to do then? What are you going to do if you aren't having that daily, daily narrative or doing all those little things that you do with yourself. It's, it is. It's like you kind of abandon this whole section of your brain, which is dedicated to the shame around what you did and didn't eat. The, you know, guilting yourself, did I work out?

Did I work out enough? Well, now I've got this big dinner. Well, now I need to, you know, do this. Well, I've got this wedding coming up. I've got to lose this weight for this wedding. I can't show my arms at the wedding. I mean, these narratives, these narratives, is are they're so continuous and so in the background of everything that we do.

I think it's really hard to say, hey, ditch that whole thing and just come over here and do something else. I think it's hard to say no to that. So how did that, how did that play out in your relationship with your mom? My mom doesn't talk about my body anymore. I don't know that my mom agrees with my messaging 100%. She's very into health, which there's nothing wrong with. With that, she's very into, I think that she definitely, I think I've helped her accept her body to an extent, but I've just more had to come to peace with the fact that that's how she is and I may never really get her over to my side.

And that's what it is, is that I think people have, they're like, well, how do I make my mom accept my body? Well, your mom may never accept your body because your mom may have her own issues forever. And that's on her. And you kind of just have to make it so that it's comfortable for you, that your body is not a conversation, that you're not being subjected to ridicule or shame when you are interacting with your family or your close friends or loved ones. And you know that you got to watch out for you in that space. And whatever their body journey is, you're not going to be able to help them. So like super pragmatically, does that mean like verbally asserting a boundary? Like if your mom always makes these little comments about like, oh, maybe you shouldn't

wear that kind of thing or whatever. Do you say something? You bet. Like you do. I think I think you do. And I think that it's it's really easy, especially with families, you can revert into kind of old habits and it's really easy to get super defensive. And you just, you have to play a game.

Amelia and I talk about. this. You have to play a game called someone else's mom where you have to almost step out of your body. You have to look at this woman as not your mom who you have all these like feelings about, but you have to look at her as a woman and you got to have some empathy for her and some sympathy for her own journey and also have a conversation with her in a mature way. Say I like literally my body's not a up for discussion. And then probably the next thing is, what about your health? I go to the doctor regularly. I mean, there's, there's an answer for all of this. And then it really comes down to the fact that if you can't control the comments you make about my body, I can't be around you as much. And then I think ultimately that's the, that's really the hard hitting threat. And it's true, though, because you really do have to,

you have to set a boundary up for yourself so that you feel. feel okay because the people that are closest to us are quite often the ones who can tear us down the fastest. Yeah. You must have to like curate the people that are open for these, that like are healthy to have these types of conversations with and the people that it's just like off limits. That's not good for me. Yes. Yeah. That's I love the somebody else's mom thing. Like I'm going to, I think that works for so much more than just body stuff. Like it works for like everything that annoys me about. Yes. Exactly. When I'm, when my mom comes to visit, I gotta treat her like, this is just like a great woman who's here to have a good time and like, let me show her around.

And I'm not gonna get annoyed that she is trying to help me organize my cabinets or, you know, just like is just up in my business. Yeah, it's just like we have so, it's letting go a little bit of like the years and years and years of baggage that many of us have with our parents and acknowledging that they're people. Like I love, I think that's one of things I like love about how you. you talk about your mom and your body is like it's with such empathy and grace for the fact that she is like not just your mom. She is a human who's going through her own. She's just a human woman. And she chose to have children and I am a child that she had. And I would imagine that it's really difficult to take your child into the doctor and have them have the doctor say she needs to go on a diet. Like I would, I would be like, oh my God, okay. Well, I guess I guess that's what we're doing

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So it's funny because I actually went through a divorce and then I started dating through this process of starting my Instagram and megababab and this whole self-acceptance process. So it was very interesting to see how I changed and how I didn't change. I would say that my instinct to show up as I am was correct and was there and I would post full body photos. And there's nothing about me that I'm hiding. I don't think that I was hiding in my dating profiles because I wanted people to say, hey, this is me and this is what I look like. Now, am I factoring in or acknowledging that I have a bigger body and some people have a preference for that and some people don't? Yes, I am.

And so sometimes does that mean I'll look at a guy, you know the type of guy. You know, like a waspy, like he's tall, he's thin, he's and khakis. He like went to boarding school. Like he's looking for himself. He's not looking at me. And I'm not necessarily looking at him. But I think that there is a factor that I think there is a process that I would say that I did go through where I would rule out certain people before we even met because I'm like, that guy's not going to like me. Is that practical?

Maybe. Is it ruling people out before they, is it judging people? Yes. So I definitely am acknowledging that I did that. Well, and also, I mean, from what another interview that I listened to with you, it sounded like you ruled out your husband, not in the same way, but like in a different way. in a different way. Can you talk about that? Yes. I ruled out him because I, like many women, we've got our priorities

backwards sometimes. And I think we've got we need the right pedigree. We need the right background. We need the right job. We need the right clothes, the right address. Like, these are the things we prioritize. And And that's not always the best. It's not always how you land in the happiest relationship. And it took me a minute to recognize that and realize that. And again, I don't fault women for having some sort of, not standard, but you've got an idea

of what you want. And I think once I was open to the fact that I, what I wanted and what I actually needed for a healthy relationship were two different things, I, I, was able to recognize that I had actually found this really amazing human and that everything that I needed was right in front of me. I think that's very sweet. I also love like the story that you told of like how you guys met where you like invited him over for Valentine's Day and you just wanted to like get laid and you were like in sexy lingerie and stuff. I think it's like and then he was like, yeah, he like thought he was going to get.

robbed or I don't know. It's like a very Yes. He thought he was he was unclear why this girl was inviting him over and he thought it must have been too good to be true and he thought I was either going to be like a prostitute

or or I was like a robbery situation but he came anyway and that is that's the thing you got a note is that he showed up and yes we did give him a clothing maker over. He was in Juggins and like a Banana Republic t-shirt and now he's got like a great wardrobe.

And guess what? That guy had a sense of style and he didn't know it. He like when he started to play with clothes a little bit more, now he's got like color references and shirts and he puts things together by himself. And yeah, he's got his own thing going on, which is pretty cool to watch. Yeah. It's like you opened up a whole new realm of creativity. for him. Yes. And I will say also with interiors, like our whole place, we just bought an apartment in Palm Beach. And our whole place is pink. And I get a lot of comments like, oh, my husband would never go for that. And I'm like, okay. He's like loves it. He thinks that we've got like a great house. Also, I think pink was considered a traditionally masculine color until like 1920. So it's very recent that it switched to being like a feminine color. Yeah. I agree with you. So those people are silly. One of the things. other things I love about that story too is I like I slept with my husband on the first date. He wasn't my husband. But I, or and it wasn't even a day.

I met him in a bar. And then we had sex. And now we're married. And I think there's this like weird societal thing of like playing games. And like if you do that like you get put in one. I like just like two days ago saw a TikTok that was like there's different buckets. And once you put you in one bucket, he won't move you into another bucket. And I'm like, are we still perpetuating that myth?

But is it true? I don't think. So like I think I was the thing is I feel I feel unfortunately like it wasn't true with your husband. It wasn't true with my husband. However, there's definitely been things where you've had like a connection with someone. You've gone home with them and then you never hear from them again. See, I disagree. I think then like I think if somebody likes you, there's nothing you're going to do that's

going to make them not like you. And if somebody doesn't like you, there's nothing you're going to do to make them like you. And so like all of the time and effort that we spend trying to like micro manipulate the situation is literally like one, I guess it's a little bit fun because you like can talk about other girlfriends and blah blah, blah, but like it's like a game. It's not it's not going to change the outcome. You either like each other. You don't. I agree. I agree with you.

You're absolutely correct. But you're like, but also. You're, you are correct. But I do. I guess I guess what you're saying is. is that when people are dating, if someone, listen, you sleep with someone and they like you and they're in a place where they want to be in a relationship, that's going to happen. And if not, it's, it's, yeah, you're not going to like trick them into it.

You're not going to trick them into. I'm constantly telling my sister just like, don't text me when you're thinking about this guy. Like, text him for the love of Jesus. Like, I don't need to hear about it anymore. Like, tell him you want to see him, you know? She doesn't do that, by the way. She continues to text me, which is. We're fun.

I got it. I know it. But I love this story too because it's so sex positive. Like even if you were like, this isn't my person I'm going to marry and you'd very much put him not in that bucket. You were like, I'm going to put on cute laundry and have a guy come over and have good Valentine's day sex. So I'm curious, have you always been like comfortable sexually and been sex positive in that way? Man, so this is just this is an episode. I just can't give to my mom.

But yes. I, it is. I have been. And I think that, I mean, certainly I was married or I was in a relationship for 10 years. And then, and I like to say, my sister listens to when I talk about this sometimes, she's like, okay, we get it. We get it. You were very single.

But yeah, I was like very active sexually before I got into that 10 year relationship. And then very active after. But yes. I think that I think there's a certain amount of fun that can be had and adventurer and you can learn things about yourself through those types of physical interactions. And I think it's not for everyone, but I don't know. I think, I think, you know, at the, on the one hand, it's fun. And on the other end, it's a chance to get to know someone in a different way. What did you learn about yourself then?

Oh, I think, well, I think that there's, I think that there's like, in some cases, you can like get your mojo back. I think it's interesting to get to be desired by someone or to see yourself through someone else's eyes. I think that that can be really powerful. Not to say that you need validation in order to have self-esteem. It's more that like, like I get it. I understand that, but I'm just saying, hey, like, there is something kind of great when someone's looking at you and just can't resist you. There's, that's, that can be really powerful.

It's an interesting dichotomy, though, for me to picture you being like, not that stoke to have your photo taken, but totally down to like sleep with a guy. Thank you. And it's how for people who are listening and they're like, I would love to feel sex positive, but I still feel like I need to turn the lights out. And a lot of people's relationship with their body is really tied up in how sex partners will view their body, you know? Yes.

I agree with you. And I am just someone, let's see, how do I put this? I've always been, I'm more comfortable naked or an underwear than I am in clothes. Hmm. Which is not the norm. I would say. Yeah. Why do you think that is?

I don't know because I think at my core, I must like the way my body looks without clothes on. Hmm. We're working through this live. We've never talked about this before. So I don't have the answer, but I would guess that that's it. So while I felt ashamed about walking into Vogue in my outfit or not being able to wear jeans because I just didn't think that my body looked good jeans because it didn't look like the, like, you know, like the thin girls who could wear the jeans with a white t-shirt and look incredible.

I think naked or in swimsuits, I, I, or underwear, I just felt my body, I don't know, I just, I never, I didn't have problems with my body in the, in the, in the, those states of undress. Did you always feel like attractive to the people you want to. to feel attractive to? Yes. No. No.

What am I talking about? No. I think I was rejected all the time. I'm not. I certainly confidence in the body department when it comes to romance is not something that I had problems. It was more when you got into like the female settings or I'm in a, I'm in a sorority and everyone's got like the tiny sorority. already shorts on, but I can't wear them, that kind of thing. This is where this is where my,

my deep shame and insecurities were happening. But I, I experienced things differently in the bedroom, I guess. Again, this is a live realization. So we're all doing it together. It's really interesting in the fact that it just brings it back to the idea that your body isn't the problem, as you say. Like the close. that says to me more than anything else that the clothes are the problem, not your body. You're right. Yeah. Which like makes sense that you have like the whole make my size series and like, you know what I mean?

It's like so much of your work is around like, yo, the clothes are the problem. Like let's figure out this problem. Yes, Dr. Rudy. This is very interesting. I agree with you. I agree with you. And I don't know that it's I don't know that it's validation from sexual experiences. I think it's more that that was just an area that I.

always felt that I knew that I felt good in. And again, because we live in a fatphobic society and that are the preferred, I mean, I've talked to, I've talked to men who said that like it was hard for them growing up because like everyone wanted the cheerleader and they felt ashamed that they liked a thicker girl. And they, that they like, so there's a whole thing that happens there.

But I do. I think that I think that that's just an area that I felt confident in, despite having many people reject me for sure. Well, that brings up two thoughts for me. One is that like a huge part of the work we're doing societally is not only to make people feel comfortable living in their body, but also to make people feel comfortable liking and being attracted to what they like and are attracted to. Like every time we're normalizing on one end, we're sort of normalizing it on the other end as well. And then the second thought is that similar to like, you're like, well, you know, there's certain validation with a partner in the bedroom, whatever. But there's also a validation that happens every single time you put on clothes or a lack of validation that happens when you put on clothes.

And I think that that can be when people are just like, oh, like, whatever it doesn't fit, it's clothes, like, get over it. It's like, no, it's like either validating that my body is okay. or it's not validating that my body is okay, you know? Yes, if I can't go shopping, if I can't, if I can't need a, need a dress and want to go buy one today and I can't go find one in a store and I live in New York City, what does that say about me? That, that is, that says something's wrong. Well, that brings me to your two famous series, which I love both of them, the Make My Size series, and then the recreate the look series where you recreate the look of celebrities.

I'm curious you've done a lot of them and they're such good, fashion inspiration. They're such good sort of activism towards brands because I feel like brands do actually listen to you, which is really cool. But I'm curious, have you learned anything that's surprised you about the fashion industry,

about clothes while making those series? Yeah, I would say several things. I would say that one, quite often closed. So if you have a line that is zero through 14,

and then you add a 16 to it and you've just you've used the you've used like the zero or two to just cut up it doesn't fit right and it's not going to fit right there's a difference when you're starting with a different cut to fit a curvy body so that's that's one thing those clothes are different two um i would say that guess what sometimes the retailers have been right in in their old timely predictions, which is that bigger women do not want to spend money on nice clothing at their big size. And I think that that is disappointing as hell and very interesting because I am out here in my little bubble of, you know, body acceptance.

And then you, and then sometimes I'll poll people or I'll ask a deeper question in my stories. And the answers I get back are super sad. And it's like. is it's going to change and so you don't want to spend money like validating. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Because you don't want. Yeah, you don't want to buy a fancy dress because eventually you're going to lose weight. And this is your temporary body. And the point is that these, these, our bodies are all temporary. As we age, as we change pregnant, not pregnant, you know, disease comes in. I mean, not to be negative. I'm just saying our bodies are always changing. And so it's interesting to think that eventually the body we will get is some sort of like,

tiny, tight body that we've always wanted is about, is going to show up one day. And I don't know. And it also means that you're like waiting in a, you're like living in a state of waiting instead of living in a state of living. You are, you are living in a state of black stretch jersey is what you're living in. Because I, I find that I find that a lot of women in that kind of size area are,

they're camouflaged. They wear long cardigans. They love like a, they love, covering their arms. They, they, they, they, they, they,

they, it's this permanent, like, uniform of hiding, which I hate. So then the brands, like, you're like,

make my size and the brand does. And then they're like, nobody's buying it. That has happened before. And that it's been extremely disappointing. Yeah. That is,

that is, yeah. But on the other hand, I would say that, um, that is not always the case. And that the other side of that is you see, a healthy business grows from it or those sizes sell out the fastest and they start to make more.

So there's, it's not always, but it's a, it is a, it is a, it is a, it is a truth that is that does exist out there. Have you learned anything about like looking cute making the series, like about fashion? Can you teach me, you know, how to look cute in fashion? Well, you know what? I would say that the super size of the looks actually are, I don't know. Sometimes when I'm stuck for what to wear, I'll go back to my Instagram and I'll look. Yeah, I mean, because like celebrities,

the pictures, the inspiration pictures you're picking, they're like really cute outfits. Yeah. And the best part is someone, they've paid a lot of money for someone to put those seemingly casual outfits together. So like, yeah, you might as well go ahead and make them your own.

I think that, yeah, I think that there's like a lot of style inspiration and ways to dress that I would not necessarily think of. So whenever I feel like I'm in a rut where I want to look kind of extra special, I'll go back and say, is there anything in here I can put together? You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. When it comes to wellness, you're going to get the best results by focusing on the big needle movers. A lot of us spend a lot of time trying to optimize that last 1%, which creates a time. of stress and it actually doesn't help our health that much. At the top of the needle mover list, sleep. And one of the best ways to optimize your sleep is to optimize your mattress, which is why I love avocado green mattress so much. First of all, this mattress is so comfortable.

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I could you just really fast like just to explain to people? I think a lot of people are like, wait, what? They paid a lot of money. I think people understand that people pay for stylists for like the red carpet, but there is not the assumption that people are paying for a stylist outside of that. Can you just elaborate on that for a hot sec? Yes. I would say that people, um, the celebrities like their brand image is everything.

That's, that's how they get jobs. If they're actresses, sometimes if people like their style, they get featured more in magazines, they get featured more, like, they just get featured more and they stay in people's minds. Yeah. And for some of them, that's how they stay successful, despite not working or not even like Blake lively, I feel like hasn't, like she was in Gossip Girl. And she's been in movies, but nothing like hugely successful, but we're all still, I'm obsessed with her. And it's because she dresses so cute. She's got such good style. And that, that's exactly it. So I think now, not necessarily Blake lively, but I can think of other.

other people that they've got paparazzi outside their house all the time. And it's just a daily photo of their outfits. And that can be a tactic. That can be a career tactic. So therefore, they employ people to make sure that their outfits are good. And then they become a style icon. And then they get a big deal with Dior or a skincare brand or something like that

because people consider them to have good style. Well, and I also think it's important. to internalize that even in these moments where you think you're viewing celebrities that's off and like comparing yourself to them in their off moments. They're not. Yeah.

Like they still have a team making them look their casual off duty look. Yes, that's exactly it. We can never compare ourselves to celebrities because it is a team. It's a literal team. Yeah, completely. Are there things that you do in the moments

where you have like a little bit of a spiral or moments you feel bad about your body? like do you have mantras you tell yourself or things you remind yourself or active, like actual active things you do? Nope. I do a nope. And I put nope in the book because that's what it is. If I,

if I'm in front of the mirror and I start to spiral out about something or I start to say, oh, like, you know, I'm looking my best or, oh, why do I look like this or I don't like this? I just nope myself and cut up, cut off the thought. Now that's like an out loud note. Yeah. that's no it's usually an inside note okay you can note out too if we want but i um i that's also not to say that like you don't have to like every outfit you put on and stand in front of the mirror

like that's okay like i don't need you to to do that but if if no matter what you wear you're gonna be giving yourself a bad face in the mirror then that's when you're doping i like that um i like the idea of just like stopping the negative train of thought do you replace it with anything positive? Like are you like, nope, and? I got it like, yes and. Yes. It's nope. And then, yeah, I want you to find something in the mirror that you do like. So maybe it is your dress. Maybe it is your eye shadow, your hair. You just got a cool manicure. Whatever it is, I do, I do like to stop the negative thought and replace it with a positive one. And it's interesting that you say in the mirror because I think a lot of times,

were taught to like or told to shift the focus like oh it's just your appearance it doesn't matter you should like focus on what a kind person you are but you're like no replace it with like something aesthetic yes because that's what it is that's what i mean that's what the negative thought is so it's the negative thoughts are really something they're made up aesthetic it's not it's they're all emotional it doesn't you don't actually you don't actually look that different if you gain or lose five pounds you don't actually look that different if you like there's all all these, there's all these like made up things we have in our head. Like, ugh, like my, I need to put makeup on.

Do you really, do you look so different with a little bit of mascara? I don't know. So that, that's, that's the thing is a lot of these things for me, I find are just, they're just made up little rules about what we need to look acceptable or to feel acceptable. I love that. I'd love to talk about mega big for me, mega, mega, mega, babe. for a second. I am obsessed with the thigh rescue. I recommend it all of the time. People are always like, how do you go hiking in shorts? And I'm like, let me tell you. Also, in New York City,

I'd always wear these, like, cute little dresses around. And my, like, it's so sweaty in the summer. So it's, I think one of the best products of all time. And I highly recommend it to everybody. But I'm, I'm interested in the fact that, like, perusing your site, so many of the products are designed for things that people consider, like, embarrassing. Like, you have, like, foot, odor and chest acne and then the thigh rescue, which is for thigh shaping. I'm curious if you get, if you get embarrassed ever, like, is embarrassment, are you just like, I do not know that emotion? I sure do get embarrassed, but it's not about things like that.

I get embarrassed if you talk to me in the subway. If we're in a crowded elevator, which used to happen, and, you know, you spark up a conversation, I get very embarrassed about people hearing my personal conversations or I, um, I, there's lots of embarrassment. I get probably embarrassed more like a teen would get embarrassed. I don't know. But there's, yes, lots of ways to embarrass me. My sister loves to do it.

She knows I get really embarrassed. But when it comes to the physical stuff, no. And you know what I've found? Girls are gross. Girls are, you know, like you're with your friends and you're talking about farting or like, you're pooping your pants or like all these things. We have bodies, you know. Yes, we have bodies.

But we've been taught that we, that, you know, that's for. that's for you know this is like dated thinking but that's for that's for boys that's for gross girls like that's not what an attractive desirable girl does so i think that there's like a there's a lot of that that goes into it is this like stereotype the sexist reasoning that girls are meant to be small and pretty and not sweat and that's just never been who i am so there's power in discussing it. I mean, that foot spray, that's sold out fast on the first run.

That's a stinky foot problem. That says to me that, you know, this is like another problem women don't talk about. It's like such a human issue, just like chafing, just like our body sweat, our boobs sweat. I mean,

these are just normal things that, that I had to make a company to, to solve. I mean, this is, that's what, that is what I always find interesting

is that like the beauty industry, it was right there the whole time, but no one, no one thought of it. They're like, you know what?

More lipstick. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it's also, it is so innately sexist at its core.

Like I, for years, I would like, pretend I didn't fart, pretend I didn't poop and from that. And we still like, I'm not like going to his face

and farting in his face. and I'm not like, you know, dousey my poop because like bad smells are still bad smells. But it's also just like, I was like, why should I have to pretend? And sometimes make yourself physically uncomfortable to pretend that your body doesn't do normal bodily functions. Yes. And I've done that in relationships before where I've, where I've held that, I've held that stuff back or tried to be a lady or whatever. And it's bullshit. It's total bullshit. Do you fart in front of your husband? You bet.

Do you guys poop in? Never. I literally never again will I, will I hold anything in? Are you open door poopers? I am fine. He's not. He's a shy flower. I'm like, I'm like, what's up?

Do you want to come talk to me? Like he's like, no. And he's like, no, thank you. Yeah, you're an animal. I'm also curious because you're allergic to alcohol, which is like a big way that people deal with embarrassment and insecure. like do you think that in absence of having that as a coping mechanism you had to sort of become comfortable with with who you were no I'm actually I'm quite not antisocial but I'm

I'm do I'm quite you had alcohol I'm quite a shut in I really do I really do struggle in large social settings I don't know what that Jerry Seinfeld quote is but it's like I I can talk to all of you, but I can't talk to any of you. Like I'm much, I'm fine to go in front of a crowd and talk, but I have a hard time doing one-on-one conversations or even like a big group dinner. I mean, that stuff is really hard for me. Interesting. Are you like, so I, if I were drunk, I imagine I wouldn't care.

How did you find out you were allergic to alcohol? Did you just like drink it and? Yeah, I drank. I'll shitty. Uh, yeah, I drank and had the same reaction every single time. and then I went to a doctor and he said that I was missing an enzyme to process the most common forms of alcohol, the most common form of alcohol now is sometimes people love to tell me about rice, wine and shit like that.

And I'm like, I don't know. I just never cared. We've got this is another story. I know. It's nice that like now there's so much more stuff available if you do want to have your mind altered in some sort of way. You could do that before your dinner parties. Sure. I mean, not really me because I am like a giggling mess.

So it's not, it's not, yeah, I'm just, if I'm out there, I'm just, I'm sober as hell in the world. I like to go to dinner at like 6 p.m. I'm about as like retired lifestyle as they come. I love, though, talking to people who don't drink for whatever reason because I do think there is this perception to that to be like out in the world, having fun. You have this like really cool, enviable life, I think. And people think that having that without alcohol is like almost impossible.

So it's, it's always fun to see that it's not actually in practice. You know what I mean? No. And I would tell you that I went to the club for like 15 years, sober as hell. And just danced? Not even.

I don't know what I was doing. Talking, I'm not sure. That's a thing. Like, sometimes you look back. you're like, how do that? But I really did. I mean, I was sober all through college.

I was sober in my 20s in New York City. But again, I used to go out. Like, we'd go to dinner at 10 p.m. And then we would, we would like, you couldn't get to a place before midnight or it wasn't cool and no one was there. Right. So like, right. So.

Can I think about the hours that I used to see? Can you imagine? Insane. I really cannot now. I got, I have to pick my friend up at the airport at like 10.30 tonight. And I'm already trying to plan for how. I'm going to make it. No, I don't even know how you're going to do it.

I don't know how you're going to do it. I did QVC last Friday night and my time block was, my time block was 10.30 p.m. on a Friday night. And I was like, I mean, I was coffee pounding, just like amped up because otherwise I'd be asleep. But now I meet myself on the other end. And I'm up at like four, five, six in the morning. So it's like I've come all the way around to the other end. Yeah, I'm not quite there yet.

I'm like sleep at night and sleep in that phase of my life where I just want to be in bed all the time for better or for worse. You shared your like nope tip. And I love, I think one of my favorite things about your book is you definitely could have written and sold just a straight up memoir. But instead you chose to make something that was essentially a workbook. like something that's so actionable and so pragmatic. And so like, here, you can do this along with me and you will be changed by the end. And I was reading some of the reviews and people were like, there are a lot of people already like, I am changed.

I did the workbook and I feel different at the end of it, which is so cool. So I appreciate you taking that route so much. But like we love those really pragmatic tips and tricks on this podcast, like things people can go home and do tonight and feel better. So obviously everybody's going to go and bye. your book. They got to buy the book. Can you tease one or two of your favorite action items from the book? Well, I think the nope is a big one. And also we talked about it earlier, which is weeding out and having those hard conversations with people in your life who are bringing you down.

Yeah. Even though that, um, even though it's really hard. Yeah. It's really, really, really hard. It's really hard. And we've, we invite people. into our lives. Sometimes shitty people can end up there for 20 years because they've just always been there. So you don't really examine the relationship. But I think it's important. I think it's important to look at the people we surround ourselves with. I think so too. It's funny. We talk about like curating your feet and like, you know, once a month going through and making sure everybody you're following on social media is really serving you. But we don't talk about that so much with our real lives. Yes. Like is this person still serving me? Yes. No.

they're not. I don't know. I do. I find it. I find we've known each other forever to be a very interesting excuse and pardon for having a shitty person in your life. And I think it happens all the time and sometimes and you know, you see someone really amazing and their best friend sucks and you're like, wait, why I don't get it. And it's like, we've known each other forever. And I don't know what that, I don't know why we allow that to have such importance. Yeah, I don't know either. All right. If people wanted to find your beautiful book, can you tell us where to find it and also where to find and follow you on social, Megababab, all of that? Yes. You can find me at Katie Astorino on Instagram. My book is available. Amazon Target. Any of the small bookstore website that I can't remember right now, Barnes and Noble, anywhere you buy books. And Megababe is available at megababobo beauty.com, Target or Alta. And everybody should try the thigh rescue because it's like literally a game, a game changer product.

Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today, Katie. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I hope you love this episode with Katie Sterino. Her new book is called Body Talk and you can find it wherever books are sold. We would also both love to hear from you what you thought about this episode. Any aha moments that you had? She is at Katie Sterino on Instagram and I am at Liz Moody as always.

and yeah, take a screenshot. Let me know if you, like, had a line that stood out to you. I know a lot of her conversations around shame were really, really helpful for reframing things for me in a way that felt really good. So I hope that the same happened for you. And if you want to check out my Patreon, if you want to check out Green Smoothie Society or a Very Moody Morning, I'll get out of new episodes of a Very Moody Morning every single Monday morning. It's going to be about 20 to 30 minutes, really chatty, really fun, really vulnerable, really intimate. you can find all of that at patreon.com slash Liz Moody, like my name, that's P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash

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