The Liz Moody Podcast - How to Eliminate Jealousy, Build Self Love, And Feel More Satisfied With Your Life TODAY

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

My guest today is Jamie Varon, an amazing writer, designer, digital course creator, and creative consultant whose work has been featured in Huffington Post, Teen Vogue, and many other outlets. Her first book, Radically Content: Being Satisfied in an Endlessly Dissatisfied World, comes out in April. On this episode, we talk about: why we’re all so dissatisfied—and exactly what to do about it an exact plan for feeling better about your relationship with social media (without eliminating it from your life!) how to stop living the life people think you should SHOULD live and start living the life YOU want what everyone gets wrong about self love and self care pragmatic action steps to build self love and self trust how to figure out what a “good life” actually looks like to you so you can go after it a genius way to bring more joy into your daily life how to stop postponing your own happiness one thing we’re ALL doing that’s making us feel more jealousy and dissatisfaction—and how to stop doing it today Tag @lizmoody and @jamievaron with any thoughts, feelings, or reactions as you’re listening, and show us changes you make based on the episode! I would also SO appreciate it if you shared this episode or any favorite episodes with someone you love in your life! PS: My very first product is live!!! Go to htdeck.com to snag your Healthier Together Deck, which has 150 conversation starters in 6 categories! Find out more at htdeck.com—this is a self-funded limited run and these will sell out!! PS: My Patreon is live! You can join Green Smoothie Society and get access to ALL of my green smoothie recipes and advice! Get all the deets at patreon.com/lizmoody. This episode is sponsored by AG1 by Athletic Greens. Visit athleticgreens.com/healthiertogether and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today. This episode is sponsored by GoMacro. You can get a whopping 30% off your order of $50 or more PLUS free shipping by going to gomacro.com and using the code healthiertogether. This episode is sponsored by Nuzest. You can use the code “LIZM” for 20% off your order on http://nuzest.us/liz. This episode is sponsored by Dame. Head over to dameproducts.com and use code HEALTHIERTOGETHER at checkout for 20% off your purchase through January 31, and 15% off from then on. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

and welcome back to the healthier together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a cookbook author and long-time journalist who is here to help you live your healthiest, happiest life. And if you saw my breakdown on Instagram on Monday, you know this episode couldn't come at a better time. I was talking about how dissatisfied and frustrated I feel. And I think part of that is going into year three. I can't believe I'm saying that year three of this pandemic. And part of that is my current situation. And part of that is just being person in the world. Shit is hard, man. I keep going on social media and seeing other people looking so happy and like their lives are so figured out. And I'm like, I don't get it. I know you can't make assumptions based on social media, but it's hard not to compare and it's hard not to feel

like something is wrong with you for not feeling that way. When I shared on Instagram, I got thousands of messages, literally so, so many messages from other people in the same boat. So I guess The good news is that none of us are alone. And the other good news is that Jamie Varon is here to help. Jamie is an amazing writer, designer, digital course creator, and creative consultant. Her work has been featured in Huffington Post, Teen Vogue, and many other outlets, and her first book comes out in April. It is called Radically Content, Being Satisfied in an Endlessly Disatisfied World. And that's what this episode is really all about.

cultivating a feeling of content without letting go of ambition or relying on outside forces like losing weight or making more money or buying your dream home. Jamie is like an anti-self-help self-help girl. Her message isn't like, here's how you can change to get the life you want, but rather here's how to be truly happy with who you are and what your life looks like right now without letting that keep you from striving for more. This episode is fun. and chatty, but it's also so, so actionable because I hate when people just suggest like mindset shifts without teaching us how to actually shift our minds. I'm like, yeah, I'm inspired, but then I'm like, what now? We talk about, Jamie and I talk about why we are all so dissatisfied and exactly what to do

about it, an exact plan for feeling better about your relationship with social media without eliminating it from your life, how to stop living the life people think you should live and start living the life that you want. What everyone gets wrong about self-love and self-care, pragmatic action steps to build self-love and self-trust, how to figure out what a good life actually looks like to you so that you can go after it. A genius way to bring more joy into your daily life. One thing that we are all doing that's making us feel more jealousy and dissatisfaction and how to stop doing it today. This was a big revelation for me when you'll hear me when we're talking about it. and I just had this light bulb moment and I've been telling all my friends about it.

So I'm very excited to hear what you think. We talk about all of that and so much more. We definitely need to carry on the conversation about this podcast. I'm going through all of the stuff that we talk about. So if you are two or anything resonates, definitely hit me up on Instagram. I would also so, so love if you shared this podcast with people in your life or by taking a screenshot and putting it up on your stories. I feel like we are all going through it right now. and Jamie's words are exactly what we need to hear.

Definitely tag me. I am at Liz Moody and tag Jamie. She is at Jamie V-A-R-O-N so that we can see and we can respond and we can reshare. If you are new here and this episode found you, I hope that it's exactly what you need right now and it brings you peace and calm and clarity. Do make sure that you're subscribed on whatever platform that you are listening on so that you don't miss out on future episodes. And also, I definitely encourage you to be able to.

peruse all the episodes that we've already got up. There's Ask the Doctors about anxiety and burnout and dental health and hormones and longevity and more. We have episodes about friendship and healthy cooking secrets and sex and, I don't know, basically all of the good stuff. It's like a poo-poo platter of auditory delight. Remember to pre-order Jamie's beautiful book, radically content wherever books are sold, she is truly starting a movement and I am so honored just to be a very small part of it. And without further ado, here's Jamie Varon. Jamie, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. I am not exaggerating when I say that your writing has truly changed my life and how I look at the world. So it is an honor to chat with

you. Well, thank you, Liz. Quite an introduction. I feel really excited to have this conversation with you. So I just want to dive right into it. There's so much I want to cover. I want to start with the basics. In your opinion, why do you think that we are all so dissatisfied right now? I mean, yeah, because, well, plenty of reasons, but probably the biggest one is were we meant to be exposed to this many people's viewpoints and lives and experiences all at once? Probably not. Are we faced with tons of choices in an oversaturated world and lots of people who are trying to sell us things. And in order to sell things, they have to create a problem that we need to have that their thing can solve. So we're constantly being bombarded with,

oh, I have this. I must be, this must not be working. This must, I have to fix this. I need to do this. And I think it's culminating into this like constant feeling of, am I okay? Is this okay? I think in the past, maybe a life that was quote unquote good was a lot easier to define. Now it's like, what does that even mean? How do I even know that I've reached it? And instead of, I think, really interrogating that question, what we end up doing is just like throwing our hands up and being like, well, I guess I got it wrong somewhere along the line.

And, you know, I mean, even looking at something not small, but something of like an offshoot is age where people think, well, if I haven't figured it out by 30, then I guess it's over. I mean, lifespan is a lot longer than 30 years old. So we have many more years to reinvent and figure it out and change. And so I think there's this, even just that microcosm of age shows us that like the standards are impossible. There is no definition for what it looks like to having. quote unquote good enough life. There are so many different schools of thought that were exposed to

all the time, which on the one hand, I love that about social media, no gatekeepers, no one, you know, curating or deciding who gets a voice. I mean, algorithm aside. But on the other hand, it's a lot at once. And I know a lot of people want to believe that there's a real life self and an online self, but they merge. And so we are very, very affected by our online lives and what we are consuming. And I think we've not been taught how to consume with any kind of discernment yet. And that's not a judgment on anyone. It's just we haven't learned just that like we're being exposed to so much at once. Like I even feel that and I'm really discerning. And I mean, because I've learned to be because I've noticed that this makes me really dissatisfied. And I'll come away from like a casual

10 minute scroll. And then I'll come away and be like, why do I have this like sinking feeling in my stomach? Where did that come from? You know, like I didn't have it before. And I'm like, oh, I probably just consumed something that went against what I think is, you know, good for me. And now I'm questioning it. And so there's just obviously a lot of factors, but I think in general, it comes down to like, very, it's very hard to define what a satisfied life is like. And I define it as, you know, my own definition, what I've curated and created in my value system that I've had to figure out. But we're not encouraged to do that because that means like there's a lot of, there's not a lot of profit in people who think for themselves, essentially.

Absolutely. There's so much done back there. I think that the notion that we are sort of the first generation who is even using social media, it's, I think there's this reaction of like, well, I should either get off it or be on it and it's bad. And it's like, no, it's just new. And like any completely new thing that we're being exposed to, it makes sense that we would have to learn to adjust and to use it properly in a way that's beneficial to us. I think that

that makes total sense when you say that. And it makes sense also that we wouldn't be very good at it yet, you know? Well, yeah, I think that's the thing. Well, I think because there's so many ways that we're like not acknowledging social media in our lives. Like some people, you know, they're very like, I don't want to use it or I use it too much. It's all these extremes. But I think most life is not lived in the extreme and trying to find where is our middle? How is there a way to consume with intention and discernment versus consuming without thinking about it? And then all of a sudden we're walking away feeling like, wow, I don't feel like my life is good enough now. Sometimes I think it's even nice, like, post by post to, like, sit with it for a second and be like, how does this post make me feel? And if it's not making you feel good, maybe go to that content creators page and think about muting or unfollowing on a one-to-one, like, does this make me feel good basis?

I mean, I am such a fan of the unfollow. I mean, I don't even take, because I'm such a fan of the unfollow, I've had to teach myself to not take my own unfollow. Like, I don't check. it. I don't care. I get unfollowed all the time, I'm sure. But I'm just like, you know what? It's not for me. I'm not going to hold ill will toward people who unfollow me because like, I'm kind of like, good job, you know? Yeah, you're curating. You're being discerning. The people are living by your lessons if they're unfollowing. Right. I'm like, yes, have a boundary. If I'm not in your vibe, I'm not like speaking to you, great. know yourself and know when something is no longer working for you and good for you. And that's okay. I mean, there's plenty of people who in one season of my life have been so inspiring. And then for some reason,

that's, I can't explain. Maybe their energy has changed. Maybe mine has. Maybe we're not, I don't know. But they're no longer inspire me. And I'm feeling like I'm always trying to like justify why they're saying what they're saying. And I just go, you know what? I'm going to mute. this person for a while and then I completely forget about it. And I'm like, oh, it's that easy. Yeah, it is. It's that easy and it's that hard. I think that the aging notion, that also like really struck a chord with me. My husband and I just had this long, in-depth conversation where we essentially realized at the end of it that we had put all of this pressure on ourselves to kind of accelerate our timeline for having kids because all of the sudden, all of our friends were having kids.

And we made this series of life choices that we were sitting in and just not feeling good and not feeling right and comfortable. And because we, even as people who really pride ourselves as living outside of the box and acting with intention, had fallen prey to that. And I think that with aging particularly, we can get really entangled in that notion of what we should be doing at any given moment. And I was wondering if you have any, I don't know, like concrete advice for noticing when we're living by. shoulds and then action steps that we can take to detangle ourselves from them. You know, I always noticed that the should is really most of the anxiety. Like if it's making that heart stopping, like, oh my God, I have to do this. And we don't have a why.

We don't ask ourselves why. We like, especially with the shoulds because the shoulds work with shame. So we feel ashamed that we're not living. living up to it. And so the shame becomes a cloak. Like it's, I look at shame as like, we almost feel shame that we feel shame. So then it's like a shame cycle. And so the one thing that shame doesn't like is bringing it out into the open, like taking the cloak off and being like, okay, why do I want this? Why does this matter to me? And I think we get scared of asking that question because it might open up like a Pandora's box of questions. But it's like open up the

box because I think that these shoulds, they always arrive with urgency. That to me is the number one thing that is always the red flag. It's like, why does this feel so urgent? Why does this suddenly, has this suddenly like come upon my life? And I'm like, I have to get, I have to figure this out. It's like, where's my patience with this? Like, do I actually need this? Is this something that's really you know, impacting my life that I don't have it, you know, like, for example, I mean, I have books that are coming, I have a book that's coming out, I have a novel that's going out to publishers. It's a long timeline. It takes a long time. And so I notice when I start getting impatient and I start feeling urgent about it, I have to really interrogate that because most likely

something has come up that feels like a should. Like, I'm 36. I should already be like three books in. know, I should already have this figured out. I should already be at the place where I expected to be blah, blah, blah, blah, like all these things. And I think that's when I start to really notice it because it doesn't really come on. I think we have a lot of like really self-aware people have started to note, like we won't use the should language. Like we'll be really sneaky with ourselves. You know, we're like, well, I mean, I think I kind of want this. Like we don't want to use the S word. But then we're acting in a way where the S word is, you know, part of it. It's part of the conversation.

And so my best action step is always getting ultra, ultra curious because shame and shoulds, like these things that work together, like I said, they don't really like to be exposed. They thrive in the dark. They love it there. They're just like, oh, yeah, we can be this like scary thing in the shadows that no one ever wants to talk about and then we just grow and grow and grow like freaking mold, you know? And then you're covered in it and you're like, damn it. And so it's like, that's how it works. And so my thing is like, okay, this is going to suck. I don't want to acknowledge this. I don't want to

bring out whatever truth is making me feel this way because I have to admit that like I'm not perfect, unfortunately, I have to admit that to myself. And I just bring it out into the open, And whether that's like through talking to someone, like you talk to your husband or through talking to a friend or even journaling is a great tool. Even like open up the voice memo app, you know, the voice notes app on your phone and like talk to it. I do that sometimes. And like talk it out. Does that work in the moment to let's say you've done this work, you've explored your shoulds. And then you're like, I've accepted my body.

I've accepted my age, et cetera. But then you go out to a bar with friends and they're getting hit on. and you're not? Or you go home to a family dinner and your mom makes a comment about you not having a house or a family or whatever yet. How does that work in those like acute moments of shoulds as well? I think it's harder in the moment for sure, but I think it's also possible. And I also think in those circumstances, I like to have a little emotional preparation. You know, if I know I'm going into a family situation. I like to say to myself, like, all right, these things might come up. How would I like to react to that? You know, I mean, that's part of having boundaries with myself. And I think that's really important.

I mean, it's that extra step. It sucks. Like all these things are extra steps. We wish we could just walk through the world and be never triggered and never hurt and never and pay. I mean, that's just, of course, but live in a world with billions of other people who have lots of different opinions. And I think we can develop an emotional toughness, which require, if you are going into a situation where you're feeling maybe a little fragile with your body, maybe you don't want to go out. Or maybe you want to go out, but in a different circumstance, or maybe you want to have a little talk with yourself before you go out and have a conversation with yourself about how you want to feel and how you'd like to show up.

because or like if you know that your mom might say something and has that tendency to say things, then, you know, you have to have a little preparation with yourself. Like to me, that's, you know, we talk a lot about self-care. Obviously, that is the word of the, it's the buzz of the times is like self-care. And it's like very much face mask and bubble bass. And I think we know it's probably more than that. But we're like, what is it? Is it more than that? What is it? I don't know. And to me, like having some sort of like conversation, ongoing conversation with ourselves, like relationship with ourselves and our thoughts and engaging with ourselves to me is like ultimate self care and it's free. So that's nice. And I think like having those kinds of things where you're like,

okay, self, going to see mom today. Could she bring up something that's going to trigger me? most likely because I know this dynamic. I know what comes up. Maybe what do I do? Maybe I try to steer myself away from those kinds of conversations. Maybe I have something prepared that I'd like to say in those kinds of conversations. Maybe I just ignore it and accept that that's how she is and that's her expectations, but I have my own value system that I'm going to live by. And, you know, these types of things, which I feel like is very actionable. I mean, it takes a dose of self-awareness and able to like kind of stop the chatter in the mind. But like, isn't that what we're doing?

You know, like we want to be more, I guess, in the driver's seat of our lives. And I'm always like a big proponent of be in relationship with yourself, get curious with yourself instead of judgmental. Because it's the judgment and the shame and the, well, I should not. feel this way when I go to the bar and this happens or I shouldn't feel this way when my mom says that. Shame, shame, shame. That's a shame voice. That's not anything else other than that. That's you saying, I should be different. There's something wrong with me that I'm having this reaction instead of being like, actually I'm allowed to have this reaction and I'm going to care for myself that I have this reaction and I'm going to find solutions for myself because that's what love is.

I think one of the hardest parts of the journey is when you build up these values intrinsically and you're like, I love myself, I value myself. I believe my body can look this way. I believe I can have kids at this time. I don't need a partner. All of these things. You decide the way you want your life to look and you live in line with your values. But then, you know, you go out into the world and the world just it's constant, constant messaging about what your values should be and what your values should be and what you're, your life should look like. And I think that constant tension, it's just, it's hard to deal with over and over and over again. So do you think that that self-love and that self-trust is the key to building it's almost a type of resilience? It's the only key. We only have two choices. This is what I tell myself, I can either go back to living based on what other people tell me to and be just like constantly low-key miserable. Or I have to build up that emotional toughness and emotional resiliency. And I do believe, yeah, it's self-trust. Like to me, self-love, like it's like a relationship. It's not love first and then trust. It's like you're building a foundation of trust.

And then only when you trust someone, usually, are you able to truly love them? And so for me, the conversation on self-love while amazing, I'm like really into self-trust first. Like to me, that's the gateway. It's a gateway drug to self-love is self-trust because without self-trust, it's like really hard to love yourself because you, it's almost like if you're trying to love yourself but you can't trust yourself, you're kind of like, I know this is the word of the whatever, but like you're a little gaslighting yourself. I love you, but I'm not going to act in loving way.

So basically, I'm just lying to myself in saying, I love you, but I don't act lovingly. In all relationships, our friendships, our family, our romantic relationships, love is in the action with ourselves. We're like, no, look in the mirror and love yourself without doing any of the actions that feel loving. It doesn't make sense. I mean, I'm not chastising anyone at all. It's just, I thought that for a long time.

I was like, let me convince myself that I love myself so much. But then I was still doing kind of destructive habits and like breaking my own promises and all of that. So if it starts with self-trust before self-love, how do we build self-trust? I think it comes down to the real gritty, do what you say you're going to do. And like that can be small. Exercise is the perfect example because it's something we can all just understand easily. So with exercise, if you're not exercising at all, and you're saying to yourself, I want to exercise, but I think I should love myself, without, you know, all the things. If you say twice a week, I'm going to walk for like 10 minutes and you actually do it. And then you do that like multiple times and you do not say to

yourself, no, I'm not going to do it. I can't do all that stuff. You actually do it. It doesn't matter. Most people when they try to start new habits or try to take on new things, they're like, okay, I'm going to go to the gym for three hours every single day. And then like they want to kind of like go so extreme that they think that that's going to make it stick. You know, because they want to go from like zero to a thousand. And I get the impulse, but it's not really like I'm all about like set yourself up for a success instead of like setting yourself up to not just. fail, which is like totally different approaches, like setting yourself up for like a sustainable success in, and I say success as like, you're keeping your own promises. I don't care what they are. You can walk around the block at the slowest pace imaginable. I don't care. But if you say that's what you want to do and that's on your heart and you've been wanting to do it. And then you get to

that time 5 p.m. when you're going to go on that walk and you don't do it, That's eroding trust because that's like if your partner, think about it, your partner said, yeah, I'll take out the trash. That's their job. Take out the trash. But yet every single day, there's still trash. The next time that partner says, I'm going to take out the trash, you're like, are you, though? Like, are you?

And it erodes. It erodes real fast. Well, and isn't it interesting how we are expected to love ourselves when we're literally often the last people that will keep those promises to. We're kind of demonstrating with our actions that we love other people more because we will keep the promises to them before we will keep them to ourselves. Yeah, like we'd rather disappoint ourselves because we're so tuned out. Like, we'd rather disappoint ourselves than disappoint others. And I'm like, I'd rather disappoint others than disappoint myself now. If something is on my mind for a while, like, okay, I want to add this

to my life or I want to change this. If it sticks, I tell myself, I have a boundary with myself. I'm like, you're not allowed to talk about what you will do one day about this until you're doing it. Because actually, they've found, I was reading about this study. It cannot remember. It was probably a few years ago. But it stuck with me that like, it's sometimes really good not to tell other people about the things you want to do because we get like a dopamine hit of like a good feeling that we're doing something about it because we're talking about it. But then actually it's a really empty feeling because if we don't put something in place to do it, we're really letting ourselves down. And I know this is like a strange conversation to have in the midst of like

all the conversations that are happening about productivity and hustle culture and all of that. I think that's like a really toxic extreme of this. And I think that this has nothing to do with like productivity, morning routines or like any of that. I mean, hey, I love being productive. And I love a morning routine. But not when it turns into like this intense pressure. And it's another should. Like it's another should that shows up.

And we like, you know, we're consuming like, okay, well, I mean, this successful person, up at 5 a.m. But like, I don't really want to wake up at 5 a.m. But like, that's what it takes to be successful. So I guess I better force myself to wake up at 5 a.m. And then, and then if I can't wake up at 5 a.m. every single day and I don't enjoy it, then I must not be good enough. And I must not have what it takes. But can't you just wake up when you, and just make your day from there? Like, I, everything that I am always about with like this kind of stuff, especially with cultivating self-trust is like you decide what you want to add. Like don't read some use people's things as suggestions, but don't take it on as your own. Like if you don't want to meditate,

like don't meditate. If that doesn't sound fun to you, like don't do it. Or like if that doesn't sound like something, there's plenty of other ways to feel meditative. I love in your book, you talk about everything you do having a why. And I think that's so critical. I'm always reminding this community that because there's so much wisdom on here that my guest share and people are sometimes like, well, I have to do this and this and this and this. But it's really about listening to all of it. It's great information and then figuring out what aligns with your why. Like some people are going to want the gut healing supplements and other people are going to want the energy supplements and other people are going to want no supplement at all. They'll want to start meditating or not

meditating or anything like that. So I do think having a why is so so critical. Also, side note, I just did a productivity episode. And it was like the opposite, I think, of what we think of as productivity. The guy's a Zen Buddhist. And he said that eliminating the notion that he had to wake up at 5 a.m. was like the best thing that he ever did for his productivity. He was like, I am not a morning person. I do not know why I keep trying to make myself into a morning person. Can you speak to why, like how we can get really clear and specific on our whys and maybe get. give a few examples of some whys in your life that you've gotten clear on and have changed the way you think about things or do things? So for me, I always cultivate wise as a positive benefit. And this is like something that I didn't realize was so revolutionary until I started telling people about it. And they were like, whoa, I never thought to do that. And I was like, you never thought that like adding something to your life should like positively affect you? It's bananas. That's wild.

honestly. I know. But like, we are so conditioned to be like, do these things that absolutely suck so that one day you can feel that you did these things that suck. Like, what? I don't get it. You know, it's like, to me, I should add things to my life because they positively benefit me. So I started to look at all the things that, all the things that were taking up time in my life, like even the things that I was thinking I should do. And I was like, why do I want to do any of these? What is the benefit to me? And a lot of them I started to notice.

It was like, the benefit is so I won't feel ashamed. Or so, you know, if I wake up earlier, I must be better and I must be more successful or something. It's like, these are not good wise. It doesn't make you feel good. So for me, you know, it's like anything I add is just like, okay, I have to have like really tangible why. It's like, okay, I go on a 60 minute plus walk every, almost every single afternoon. Why? Because it gives me mental clarity, because my mood feels more stable when I do it, because I like the way I feel when I'm getting regular exercise because sunshine is good for me because it makes me feel good because I like listening to my music. Notice that none of those whys are because I hate my body

because I'm the worst and I suck and I need to walk because other people tell me that I need to walk. None of those are motivating things. We are human beings. We need to be motivated. We really underscore this. Like we think like we just need willpower. It's like no. You probably don't want to do that because you don't want to do it or because you see no positive benefit to your life. So maybe you'll force yourself and shame yourself into doing it for a week or two. But then what about the rest of the time? Like what about progress? What about sticking to it, you know? I also think that it's a really good exercise in figuring out what you do want and getting in touch with yourself. Like if you're tuning in after you eat food to figure out how it actually makes you feel, if you're tuning in after your walk to figure out how that makes you feel, if you're tuning in after hanging out with one friend who makes you super energized every time you hang out with them and another friend who leaves you feeling super depleted, I just love that exercise of in the process of figuring out our why. And if there is a why, we're getting closer in touch with who we are and what we want at any given moment.

Yeah, that's a great point. I love that. that. I mean, I think a lot of my action tips and stuff like that, they're very obvious. And I'm like, but yeah, do we do them? I think it's crazy. Like, honestly, I have people who are like, ugh, I have to talk to this friend again. She's calling me or whatever. And I'm like, if your response is, ugh, I have to talk to my friend every time they call you, then why are they your friend? I just, I think it's crazy how much we fall into these. And there should. Like you talked about earlier, they are like things we forget to question. And I just love that looking for the why forces the question. Well, yeah, it's kind of confronting because then it's like, once you know it,

you can't unknow it. And so then you start thinking of like, why am I doing this? That's the, to me, like curiosity is such a, um, spreads like a wildfire in your life. You start like going, wait, why do I care about this? Why is this important to me? Wait. why am I talking to this person that every single time for the past year I've rolled my eyes when I see a text from them? What's that about? You know, I mean, I think a lot of people probably resist this because they have this core idea that has been told over and over to women, especially like if you try to have your life positively benefit you, you're selfish. If you think of yourself first, you're selfish. If you actually care about yourself.

and your well-being, you're selfish. Like all these things, people tell me all the time, they're like, I'm worried about being selfish. Caring about yourself. I get it. I'm not saying none of this is like, I get where it comes from. But we have to get past that because,

and people might think you're selfish. Okay. I mean, speaks to where they're at, probably a lot more than where you're at. But like, I write this in my book too, like in radically content, I'm just like, if people think that me caring for myself and putting myself first and going after my dreams and actually caring about my well-being in every situation that I'm in is selfish, then so be it. I'm not going to try to change your mind. And I'm not

going to change how I approach things and be a martyr to my own life. And that doesn't mean I'll be thoughtless. It doesn't mean that I'll not be generous and kind and compassionate, but it also means that, like, I have a full cup that I get to pour from. And that's very important to me. I think that we have too many women that are sacrificial and not enough who are just like, you know, filling their own cup up. And that doesn't mean, I think a lot of people maybe they're afraid of that meaning like, well, I'm just going to like ignore everyone and cut people out, you know, do this whole drastic thing. And it's like, it's kind of not. I mean, I would say if people are afraid of that, it's just like, instead of cutting stuff out, just start adding.

Move some things out. Like you add something positive, a positive benefit. Maybe one of those things that felt like you had to cut out, it just naturally falls away. Or, maybe when you have a conversation with your friend, instead of like having that person dictate what the conversational topics are, like maybe you start adding some things in. Maybe you start sharing where you're at. I've had friendships that have completely transformed. And actually, relationships with my own family, like immediate family, that have completely transformed by me showing up differently. Instead of me going, I want everyone else to change so I can show up as my full self. It's like, no, I show up as my full self and things change to accommodate me.

I love that so much. Actually, that's how I teach people to eat healthy. I'm like, instead of cutting stuff out, can you add a vegetable to every single meal that you have? And that completely transforms your taste buds, your gut, how you feel, your energy, all of that. And you're not cutting anything else out, but everything naturally starts to shift. And I love the idea of adding the equivalent of vegetables to every part of your life, but not cutting stuff out. I think an additive approach is really lovely. We've talked a lot about kind of unapologetically living the life that you want. And I think so much of your philosophy is around going after what a good life actually is to you and bucking what society tells you that it is. But a huge problem that I personally run into

is that the noise of society is so loud and it's been so loud for so long. that sometimes I even have trouble, like, getting clear about what I want at my core. You know what I mean? Like, what are my values? What does bring me pleasure? What does a good life look like to me? Because I'm taking in all these images of what that should be. Do you have any advice for, like, figuring out what's the thing we're actually trying to pursue here?

Yeah, you know, I have that same definitely. I mean, I just wrote on Instagram, I think last week of, like, the noise. is a lot. The noise is hitting a crescendo, like especially it was just, just felt like a lot during the holidays and New Year's. I think what I've had to start using is I just stop intellectualizing it because like I think this is a self-growth and the self-awareness. It's a lot of like thinking. and I have had to start doing more feeling, which has not always felt very safe for me. Like, I'm not always, don't always love to have all the feelings. And so, but that has been a good indicator for me of like, when something makes me feel peaceful,

that is me. When something makes me feel anxious, how it's being presented, is not for me. And so that doesn't mean, you know, it takes like a lot of discernment and it's an ongoing process. But I think having the intention to know your values and know yourself better and know what you truly want and allowing for the fact that like it will change as you grow and get older and, you know, live your life. Like things are not meant to stay the same, including us. And I think really tapping into, okay, where do I feel most at peace? Where do I feel like who I am is enough? And where do I feel like I'm still lacking? And in that lacking, is it that this is something that I don't value,

or is this something that I need to start cultivating in my life? Tapping into your emotions and how you really feel when you do certain things throughout your day, like, oh, I feel really calm when I commit to this. I feel really good when I do this. I feel really, this might be something that, like, is calling to me and like where you're really lit up and where I also think like, in terms of maybe like career prospects or art or anything like that, like where you want to be good at something and where the challenge makes you excited. And it makes you like, even though it might give you self-doubt. It's okay for it to be conflicting. I think that just tapping into those emotions are really the only way because if we try to intellectualize it, we're usually intellectualizing

from the lens of what society has deemed good or bad, acceptable or not, because we're trying to make it understandable and digestible. We're like, well, is this, you know, instead of the one thing they can't really take from us is like how we feel. And there is something like really knowledgeable about our emotions. And so my thing is like I'm trying to clear away the clutter in my mind so that I can like actually feel my way through life and like do things that light me up, do things that bring me joy and notice like I used to have so much anxiety that I would never notice when something gave me anxiety because it was like, the sky is blue, babe. It was just, It's all blue. You can't notice, you know, gradients of it. And like, then I started to notice,

you know, I worked on my anxiety and now I can notice like spikes. Okay, what's that about? You know? And so hopefully that was helpful. I feel like I went on a couple tangents. But I think that like, you know, it's obviously a very individual thing. And I think trying to navigate that, it's our life's journey. Allowing for the fact that we are all unique individuals and our life's journey is figuring out what brings us joy and satisfaction and contentment. Are there things that you have on your joy or pleasure list that we could take inspiration from? I'm so intentional about this stuff. Like, okay, I guess, you know, my walk, just go on a walk.

I like enjoy the whole, I make myself enjoy the whole process. So like I get on my walk and I notice the day. I notice the weather. I notice my surroundings. I notice how I feel. I start to like, like I want to extract more from my moments. You know, I don't like to wait for the big moments in my life, like the big splashy things to give me like a lot of pleasure. So I like to extract the most from my moments. So I'm like, ooh, how am I feeling today? What's going on with me today? like, oh, I like how that looks. I like how that looks. That's really pretty. It feels nice out here.

Like that's just one walk. And I try to do that with other things too, where if I'm really, if I'm on my phone, I'm going to enjoy being on my phone or like, you know, I'm going to like have a purpose. I'm going to answer some messages. I'm going to get into some conversations. I'm going to like, you know, sorry. Okay, granted, sometimes I do just scroll. And then I'm like, Jamie, it's not feeling good.

Like, more anxious than when we came in. But in some ways, is it like less even about what you're doing it sounds like, but how you're doing it? It is. I think how I approach things in a way. My intention is like, I want to get the most out of my day, not out of my life, out of the day. I think we're really focused on amounts of time that are really hard to conceptualize where I'm like, I just have the day. I have my long-term plans. I have them in my mind for sure, but I got to focus on the day. I can't underutilize or I can't underscore or discount how important the day is because your life at the end of the day is is a collection of days.

And not extracting as much as you can from your day, I think is a really big part of our malaise. because we're waiting then for like, okay, it's Friday night. It's the weekend. And then I got a promotion this one time of the year and like I get to go on this one vacation and I can't, oh God, now the vacation's over. Oh no. You know, but if you create pockets of joy in your day, it doesn't feel that desperate to always be waiting for the next thing and the next thing. It's just like, all right, get the most out of your day. Eat the breakfast you like. Do the thing you say you're going to do. You know, make yourself, bring yourself joy and bring yourself pleasure in any way that you feel, I don't know why we dole out our joy in like little tiny droppings. We're like, oh, you don't deserve it yet,

self. Like you didn't get enough done. You didn't achieve enough by 30. So like, let me punish you for the next 10 years. Well, and I also love that idea because I do think that a lot of us are sometimes like, well, once I can afford to travel, I'll be happy because travel is the thing that brings me joy. Or once I meet the love of my life, I'll be happy. Or once I have kids, I'll be happier if I get my dream job. And that philosophy that you just articulate it, it allows for continuing to push towards,

you know, getting your dream job and keeping your eyes open and putting yourself out there to find your partner, but it says my joy isn't reliant on that. I can find my joy today on this Wednesday, on this Saturday, and still be excited about these other things that I know will bring me joy in the future. It puts less pressure on these big life events that sometimes we're like, well, I'll only be happy if. Exactly. That's to me like the philosophy of radically content. It's not, I'll only be happy when I get these things. Or, I don't want to get these things and I just have to be content with what I have. It's like, no, there's a middle. There is a beautiful freaking middle. That is where we need, I think we need to be,

where a lot of us don't know we need to be because we do want to create things in our lives. We do have ambitions and dreams and that gets us excited. But also having that philosophy of I'll only be happy when. It's too long to wait. I don't think, you know, it's fine. Of course, we all have like down days. But for the most part, you know, if you're not trying, if you're not expecting and cultivating a life where you feel good in your everyday life

while you pursue the bigger things, the thing that sucks that I've recognized is that the bigger things don't feel that great. If you're putting every ounce of pressure on it, it's why people say, like, it doesn't feel the way you expect it to feel. Because if you've spent 10 years putting all your joy on hold, all your contemment, all your life satisfaction, everything on hold until you get there, I mean, it's impossible. It's like asking for the impossible. Or you feel good, but then it's just for a second and then you're right back to sometimes even a worse place because you're like, oh my gosh, this is the thing I thought would make me feel great forever.

Yeah, like, hello. I mean, that's why look at Hollywood. There's a lot of people who are at the top who are not as happy as one would expect them to be. And they're at the pinnacle of what we expect of success, you know, conventional success. Well, because there is something that's extremely disappointing that happens when you're like, wow, this was supposed to solve everything. This was supposed to give me permission to love my life and love myself and experience joy. And now it doesn't feel like enough.

And now I just have something else I have to go after that I hope will be enough. And now I'm in a real pickle with myself. In the name of like the pursuit part, one of my favorite jamieisms is this notion that fear comes from inaction or that like conversely to that action cures fear. I just think it's such a powerful. idea and I would love for you to speak to that for a second. Oh, one of my faves. Faves. Yeah. So I think that fear becomes, it multiplies when we're not doing the thing that we want to be doing. And so it becomes this monster. Again, it's like the shame. It's just this monster that, okay, well, now I'm doing less of it. And so I'm not doing it. And like really, the only way you're ever going to know

what it's like to do something is if you do it. And I, I think that action will cure fear in that once you start progressing, once you're focused on doing that thing, you're like, I'm in it. It's like the fear is from, am I going to be in it? Am I in the arena? Am I trying? Am I this? Am I good enough?

It's like, first of all, good enough is impossible to measure. So we need to just good enough we need to be done with because. You can't measure good enough. Like, you just can't. I mean, in the arts, you can't. And we try to measure it, like with money and with, you know, all the metrics that we use and social media and this and that. And like, but still, it's still impossible to really measure.

And so for me, the only way that I could get away from the fear of not being good enough was like, put in the days. Put in the days. Like right now I'm writing the next draft of my next novel. Is it good? No, it's not. Am I, like, is the writing just flowing? Not yet, because I don't even know what the story is yet, but I know that what will feel worse and what will give me even more fear is if I keep avoiding the work. Is if I avoid it and then I go, well, now, because here's what happens. Okay, you avoid it for a month and then you sit down and you go, well, now it has to be

really good because I just avoided it. And then you avoid it for a year. And you're like, well, now it has to be really good. And then you avoid it for 10 years. And you're like, well, now it has to be absolute perfection or what the hell have I been doing. And here's the thing. Here's the truth. Day one, page one of whatever, I don't even care if it's writing. Day one, page one of anything you do, probably not that good.

That's okay. It's okay. We have to progress because day 100, oh, you're going to, wow. You're in it now. You're in it. And no one can tell, like, the fear really dissipates once you're in it. I mean, then there's like maybe new fear of like, how's it going to be, you know, how's it going to work? How are people going to feel about it? I mean, that's going to happen too. But at least you did it. Like, at least you tried. Like, for me, I'd rather suck at, you know, at doing something at the beginning than not do it at all.

And I think that's probably a more outside of the norm feeling, especially with women. We want to be for some reason, I mean, probably some cultural, societal expectation that we've been taught to take on and condition to believe that like we need to be good at something right away or it's not worth doing. Whereas like I find that with men, maybe because there's like a real, it's kind of a can be toxic. this like kind of focus and fixation on sports and skill. There's a lot of focus with men on skill that like they're more prone to be okay with like the beginner's feeling. And so they'll progress and they'll practice. And I think we really forget that like we need practice. The first day you go into the weight room at the gym, day 200, you're killing it. Like you're in a different place. And I think progression is so important. It builds our confidence. So I think that's what I'm

talking about when I say action cures fear is that action builds our confidence, which takes the fear away of like, am I good enough? Is it going to be good? And then we start to recognize that like the process of doing something, the process of stacking up the days and making progress, everyone who has cultivated discipline in their life in that way and cultivated consistency will tell you that is the thing. That's the thing. Not how it's received. Not all the, I mean, that's cool. But actually getting to the place where you can like, right when you sit, you know,

sit down and write or like go to the gym and like you're feeling a lot stronger and like all these things. That is what you really carry with you is the process. But if you're too busy thinking like, am I good enough? You miss all of that. Do you still have days where you struggle with your anxiety or with feeling jealous? Oh, definitely. I mean, not as much as I use to for sure.

But yeah, I mean, for sure. I'm only human. I think what has helped me, though, is I don't make those days mean anything anymore. I don't make a story about it. That's the whole thing. We make these stories about how we feel. I think what's really helped me overall is I don't try to have expectations on I am a big love joy, love happiness, like love all that stuff. But I'm not like, you should be happy every single day.

I have, I want to, you know, cultivate as much of a positive life as I can. But not to the detriment of like how I really feel, not to the detriment of, like, how I really feel, not to the detriment of, my being honest with myself and having to come to terms with certain things or like have to deal with, you know, emotions that are maybe confusing or, you know, just life. Like, you know, life things that are happening or situational things or the news or whatever. And so I think that has been really helpful to navigate different emotions because I'm not like, I'm feeling anxiety. That's bad. That's bad. You know, that's a bad emotion. I'm just like, it is an emotion. So like, what is it telling me? What can I learn from this? What is this trying to, it's a heightened feeling. And I want to know, you know, I can't expect to just be in bliss every second of every day. And that's okay. I accept that. And that means like I appreciate the days where like joy is easy to come by more than the days where I have to cultivate it a bit more and have to work with myself a bit more.

Do you have examples like that for jealousy, like a concrete time that you felt jealous and how you moved through that using your philosophy on life? Oh, my God. Okay. Well, I mean, there is this person that every time I see her stuff, she, I used to like, I don't, I want to go into specifics. But she has more Instagram followers than me. Okay. She's selling more books than me, you know? Like, her books are already out.

My book isn't even out. so I don't even know if that's true. But I tell myself, this has been really helpful. I'm like, what do I think that she gets to have that I don't? What do I think that she gets to experience that I don't get to experience just because she has 150,000 more followers than me? Truly, truly. And if I can answer that question, okay, I'll cultivate that.

But if I can't answer that question, which most often, I can't, then I have to let it go because she doesn't get to experience, is she experiencing more joy and elation than me? Is she experiencing less of a self-doubt maybe about her writing because she has more followers than me? I don't know, but like did getting more followers for me decreased my self-doubt? No. Like I had to do that for me. So I just have to like, have a conversation with myself because often, especially with jealousy, we're like, well, that's wrong. We shouldn't feel that. I shouldn't feel this way. I'm bad. Like, I shouldn't have this emotion. And it's like, it's completely normal to feel jealous. Either it's telling you there's something that you want

that maybe you're not acknowledging or it's telling you that there's an expectation that society has told you to care about that you don't need to carry with you anymore. Probably the biggest reason I started writing novels was because I was so jealous of everyone running novels. And I was like, all right, I guess that's something I need to notice. Like, this is telling me something about what I care about. And I am a lot less competitive and a lot less jealous because I'm writing. And also, the last thing I'll say about jealousy, it's okay to be competitive. You don't have to tear people down, but like, it's It's okay to want things, to want to do well, to want to be the one that people are talking about. I mean, I feel like with women, we're just told like, this is wrong.

You should be happy with what you have. That is so dismissive. I think we do that to ourselves, too, of like with the jealousy, we're like, well, you should just be happy with what you have. What's wrong with you? Like, we say that to ourselves. And that's really dismissive and it makes us miss like, what if there's something that's coming up for us? What if there's something we want to cultivate and we're missing that whole knowledge insight into ourselves?

Because we're so busy shutting it down and telling ourselves we shouldn't feel that way and again, shaming ourselves. What if it's something you're jealous of that doesn't feel like it can like teach, it doesn't feel helpful in any way? Like we've been house hunting and everything is so expensive. And I'm just like, I get really jealous of people who can afford a nice house that's comfortable and quiet and just conducive to their needs in life or getting jealous of somebody who is born looking a certain way. So then they have pretty privilege and they go through life with that pretty privilege. Or they're on vacation and the beach in the Maldives. And it just looks like it genuinely is. is joy bringing, but you can't afford to go on vacation to the beach in the Maldives.

Like, how do we deal with this jealousy that just, like, I don't feel like I'm learning anything from getting jealous of people when they have houses that are nice. I just feel like I get angry and then I get mad at myself for not setting up my situation better where I could have afforded a house like that now. So that is like, to me, just being like, yeah, that sucks. Okay. Is there something that I can change for myself in the future? If not, all right, I need to mute people in the Maldives.

I need to get these home inspiration accounts that I think are inspirational, but are actually making me feel like crap out of my life. I need to unfollow, mute, get them out, have boundaries with myself, and see if I'm, is this dissatisfaction that's morphing into jealousy really from within? Or is this only because I'm being exposed to all the other people out there who are making it look like this is perfect? And I think really having to come to terms with like, this is my reality. This was what I was born with. Something that really helps me is just being like, this is my journey.

Like this is my specific journey and it is harmful for me to say that I should have been born in a different life and a different body and a different this. It just is. And so there's no trying to understand it. There's no, I mean, there's a obviously like a bigger issue here of like a systemic thing. You know, I mean, obviously there's capitalism that exists. And so that aside, but like internally, I just have to be like boundaries. Like, this is upsetting. You know, like, I don't follow the Kardashians. I don't follow people who have insane amounts of money more than me. I notice if I stop following them, I stop feeling that way. It's such a good point. Like, how much we, without even thinking about it, expose ourselves to the Real Housewives and the Kardashians

and these influencers are living these jet-setting lives, and we're just like, oh, it's like aspirational, it's fun, it's lighthearted content to consume, but it is planting these little insidious messages about what a good life looks like. I've noticed that people tend to stay following people that make them feel like crap, and I think it's because there's this sort of stubbornness, like, well, I should be able to be exposed to this. And I, this is me. I can't, you know, this is not their fault. It's on me. And it's like, no, we're supposed to find community. And community is where we're like really, you know, community is a place where it's like

minded people, which is also like we don't have to be exposed and constantly consuming lives that don't reflect ours in any way, shape, or form. Like, that just isn't necessary and wasn't happening. before social media. And so just noticing that some of these things, even though it feels very like, it's like, well, that must mean, if I can't afford the house that I really want, that must mean that I have failed.

It's like, well, there are other things that are existing here. Like, how it, maybe you would feel completely differently about what your life actually is if you weren't constantly exposed this HGTV show and this influencer and this, like all these places, that are trying to sell aspirational lifestyles. This aspirational thing has like killed us. The thing is that anyone in any house, basically anywhere with any amount of money, unless what,

they're like Elon Musk, they don't have what someone else has. Well, and even Elon Musk, you know, he's definitely lacking in other areas of his life. I think there was somebody who said once that if you want to trade, like if you're, if you're, you're like, oh, I want Elon Musk's wealth. You have to picture taking every other component of Elon Musk's life, like his relationships and his sense of self and what he does every day. And like, there's so few people that you would actually trade every single element of somebody's life for. So then it almost doesn't make sense to be jealous of the one thing. Exactly. I think that's a great point. Okay. I know you have to go, but I would love, can you just leave us with a homework assignment?

one thing that we can start doing today to be more radically content in our lives? I think what's coming to mind is I feel like either in a journal, either with yourself, anything that's weighing on you that's feeling really heavy. Start asking questions the way that you would with a really, really good friend. What is coming up? What does that mean to you? Get curious about it. Curiosity, I think even this is something that Bray Brown even put in her new book of like curiosity is the antidote to shame. It is such an important aspect of cultivating some real self-compassion

in a very tangible way and getting very curious with yourself instead of judgmental is going to open up solutions. And I just think like start there. Start with asking your, yourself, why does this feel heavy? What am I making this mean for myself? What is causing me pain with this? And like, write it down, think about it, ask yourself, talk to someone. It's really important. These seem really simple, but it's actually something we don't take the time to do, noticing our lives, being curious about ourselves, cultivating relationship with ourselves. But it's like, it is the foundation. Everything from there gets a lot. I think lighter and a lot easier to hold when we have that curiosity and relationship with ourselves

and that foundation. I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and just your really wonderful way of looking at and engaging with the world. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for having me, Liz. This was amazing. I hope you love this episode with Jamie, I just love how she looks at the world. I love the idea of finding joy in our moments now and not postponing that joy for later, but also not losing our ambitions and our dreams and our hopes, but not using them as an excuse to defer feeling good. I feel like I'm definitely a person who's guilty of the like, I'll feel happy when. I'll give myself permission to feel good when. And I love the idea of eliminating that from my life. Also, if you couldn't hear my glass breaking moment with the

whole Kardashian selling sunset, the media that we're exposing ourselves to changing our perception of what a life could or should look like, like changing our perception of wealth. And suddenly we need this house and these restaurants and these clothes to feel good. And I just think it's so interesting because these are the shows that I watch at least when I'm like tuning out, when I'm giving myself a break and turning my brain off. And it's really interesting to think about how I'm populating my brain with all these insidious bad for me messages. in those times when I'm trying to tune out. And like, does that mean I'm going to stop watching reality TV altogether? I don't think so. But it does mean I'm going to, I guess, consume my content more

consciously and try to be aware of, especially the messages that are kind of more sneaking and creeping in without me being aware of them and how they're impacting me moving those goalposts for myself and desiring things that I might not otherwise have desired. I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode, as you can probably tell. I'm very excited about it. I have a lot of thoughts. I would love to discuss. So if you want to hit me up on Instagram, please do. I'm at Liz Moody. I would also so appreciate if you would share this episode with anybody in your life that you think it would resonate with. I just feel like it's exactly what we need as a society right now is to hear exactly these words. So please share it in real life on Instagram. So appreciate it. And then if you love this podcast, if you love this episode, if you loved any episode, if you're still here listening now, because I feel like it's been a while. This was a long one. I would really appreciate it. if you would take the time to do a quick rating or review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It makes a huge difference and it really helps other people find the podcast.

And I'm still trying to hit my 2K goal, guys. We are so close and it's like a little fresh. I see all the people listening to this podcast and it's like so much more than the amount I need to get to the 2K. And I know it's so annoying to write a review and you're probably like in your car right now and then you're going to forget by the time you get home. But even if just like a teeny tiny percentage of the people listening right now, Took the time to write a quick little review.

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15% off. Exclusions apply. I'm genuinely confused how masterclass gets literally the absolute top people in every single field to teach every single one of their classes. I use it when I want to learn things directly, like the cooking class from Thomas Keller has all of the wisdom that you would normally have to go to culinary school for. But also, I'm being honest, this is like a use case I don't hear a lot of people talking about. I'll just watch it for entertainment when I want to do something that's far more interesting than scrolling. Christina Aguilera taught me to sing. Shan Boudrum's Art of Mastering Confidence and Sex Appeal class is 10 out of 10. There's menopause classes with leading doctors. There's script writing with Mindy Kaley. Literally, you name it,

they're on master class and it is such a good way to get off your phone, but have something that's like not quite as long or hard to get into as a TV show or a movie and then it just keeps you entertained and interested and you are learning. There are over 200 classes from the world's best, all for just $10 a month when billed annually, and you get unlimited access to every class on the platform so you can learn at your own pace whenever you want on your phone, your computer, or even in audio mode, like a podcast. If you're looking to stop scrolling and start consuming entertaining content that makes you feel excited and helps you learn, masterclass is it. And the best part, every membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee so you can start learning risk-free.

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