The Liz Moody Podcast - How To Get Yourself To Do The Thing You’re Avoiding

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

We all have that one thing we're avoiding right now. Whether it's hitting the gym, starting that side hustle, or finally getting to bed at a reasonable hour—we keep putting it off even though we know it's exactly what we need to level up our lives. And trust me, I get it, Netflix and cozy blankets are calling my name too. But here's the really exciting thing—I sat down with the absolutely brilliant Kati Morton (she's THE expert on making hard things easier, with a master's from Pepperdine University and an incredible way of breaking down complex psychology into doable steps). We dove deep into why our brains resist change so much and, more importantly, how to actually get ourselves to do those big, scary things that lead to massive transformation. If you've ever felt stuck between knowing what you should do and actually doing it, this episode is going to be a game-changer. It's packed with those practical, science-backed strategies we love, but delivered in a way that feels like chatting with your smartest friend. 🎧 What you’ll learn: • The shocking truth about comfort zones (and why "self-care" might actually be holding you back) • Why waiting for motivation is literally the worst strategy - plus what actually works • How perfectionism is sneakily sabotaging you (and what to do about it) • The game-changing "overthinker to action-taker" framework • My favorite cookie-based courage-building hack (yes, really) • A 5-minute trick to completely transform your schedule Check out the FREE “21 Days To Change Your Life Plan” we made for our listeners at LizMoody.com/January. Check out the other episodes in our January Transformation series: • Your Trickiest Weight Loss Qs, Answered: Cravings, Hormone Issues, Plateaus, Workouts & More • Actually Upgrade Your Life This Year: Simple Shifts for Money, Health, & Happiness • Stanford Psychologist: Anyone Can Crave Exercise—Here's How • Why Manifestation Fails For So Many People—And The Exact Shift That Makes It Work For more from Kati Morton: • Website: https://katimorton.com/  • Book, Why Do I Keep Doing This?: Unlearn the Habits Keeping You Stuck and Unhappy: https://amzn.to/4pO4MQg  • Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/katimorton  Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order Liz’s book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  Connect with Liz on Instagram @lizmoody or online at www.lizmoody.com. Subscribe to the substack by visiting https://lizmoody.substack.com/welcome.Buy our cute sweatshirts, conversation cards, and more at https://shop.lizmoody.com/. Use our discount codes from our  highly vetted and tested brand partners by visiting https://www.lizmoody.com/codes.  To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. This episode is brought to you completely free thanks to the following podcast sponsors: • Timeline: visit Timeline.com/Liz to claim my special offer. • Ourplace: go to FromOurPlace.com/LizMoody and use code LIZMOODY for 10% off sitewide.  • NOCD: to learn more about starting OCD therapy with NOCD, go to NOCD.com and book a free call. • Goodles: available nationwide at major grocery stores or visit www.Goodles.com. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast.  This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. The Liz Moody Podcast Episode 396. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I want to go to bed earlier, but at night I keep delaying going to sleep because that is my only me time. Ooh, this is a good one. I want to spend less time on my phone, but I reach for it automatically hundreds of times a day. I want to make new friends or date more, but I'm scared of putting myself out there. How do we know when something is a hard thing that we should do and when something is a hard thing for a reason?

And that's a sign that we shouldn't be going after that thing. Things you want to do, things you want to create, who you want to be. Those are things that are towards your values. Would you say that's one of the top reasons we're not achieving our goals or living our dream lives? We don't prioritize the things that are actually important to us. Hi, I'm Katie Morton. I'm a licensed therapist, and I've been creating content online since 2011, and I help millions of people each and every day through my social media.

Katie, why is it important for us to do hard things? To prove to ourselves we can, builds confidence, builds self-worth, and allows us to grow and change and to become amazing people. What about somebody who is like, isn't it self-care to let myself be comfortable? Ooh, yes and no. So we can't work on ourselves constantly. I know that we talk about it like we can, but there is a time to enjoy the fruit of your labor. Like, wow, I've really come so far.

I should look back and I should reflect and be like, yes, good job. However, comfort isn't always healthy. Like when we talk about relationships specifically, we can find comfort in people who are just similar to an old pattern. or a blueprint from our childhood, but comfort isn't healthy. And comfort isn't where growth happens either. So if you want for more, if you want for better, then comfort isn't really where you want to hang out. Why is motivation not enough when it comes to doing hard things? We have this misunderstanding about motivation. We think motivation comes through like us planning and thinking and like, oh, these are the goals I have. These are the things I want to do. But motivation actually comes

through the action. And if we're not continually working on ourselves, we'll poop out. And if we don't see reward right away, we'll poop out. We have to have more than that. We have to have belief in self. We have to have, I don't even want to say long-term goals, but it's like we have to have this bigger vision of what we're doing because motivation might help us get started, but over time, it'll dissipate. And when things get uncomfortable, motivation's not going to be there to push through it, motivation is going to push us back towards comfort and like that old blueprint. Motivation doesn't necessarily direct us in the right way we want to go, but it can at least light the fire under us to get us started. What's your favorite way to be more motivated when you're

feeling really unmotivated? Honestly, I just pick one small thing. I know that sounds kind of cheesy, but when I don't want to do anything, I pick one thing that would really help me the most. Or I'll check one small thing off my list that I've been putting off for like seven months, and I don't know why. It takes like two minutes. That helps me get motivated. I'll move my body. That almost always helps. And you get into a lot of kind of like sneaky ways that our motivation is being blocked and

we're staying stuck in your book and we're going to get into a lot of those. But we're very practical on this podcast and we like to kind of like ground things in the real world. So I wanted, I thought it would be fun to just jump in with some top hard things that people want to do. And I would love for you to suggest one action to get us closer to being able to do them. Okay. Okay, so I want to move my body regularly, but I struggle to start when I feel low energy, unmotivated, or like I'm already behind on everything else.

Start with five minutes. Don't start with an hour. Everybody always thinks working out has to be an hour or a half an hour. But I think sometimes just like even just getting up and like stomping your feet are going for a walk around the block. I always tell my audience, I'm like, meet yourself where you're at. If you want to get your body moving, go get your mail or vacuum. And what if I'm like, but I know all the science and I feel like I should be doing like this hit workout and this strength training. So like this doesn't count because it's not my perfect ideal of what a workout should be. Perfectionism is crippling. There's this quote. It's not mine. I've got it from the artist's way, which is a beautiful workbook if anybody's looking for something. But she says perfectionism isn't seeking out the best.

It's actually looking for the worst. And that's what that is. Wait, say that again. Perfectionism isn't looking for the best. It's seeking out the worst. And if you think about it, when you want things to be perfect, it means you're looking for the imperfections. It, like, blew my mind because I always thought perfection. Oh, I'm a perfectionist. That means I just like things just so, just the right way. No, that means I'm looking for the things that aren't right.

And that's what we do to ourselves. Like, oh, I know the science. I'm not lifting enough weights. I'm over 40. I'm going to atrophy. That's not good. That workout doesn't count. You're looking for the little way it's not good enough. That it's not enough. And then that is why we're crippled. That's how we stay stuck. Well, and we stay in the shame cycle around that. I'm not good enough. I can't do anything right. It's never going to work out for me. All those like common cycles. Yeah.

And especially when it comes to like when we want to make change, we have to just start small and give ourselves credit for that. And so it's changing the way you talk to yourself. You have to like fight back against that like, well, it wasn't 30 minutes. I didn't burn enough calories. I didn't do. Whatever the thing is, you have to argue back and be like, no, but I did the five minutes. And that was what was on my to do list.

I did five minutes. And often, I will say, as somebody who struggled for a very long time to make working out a habit, like that little bit leads to so much more. As Isaac Newton said, objects in motion stay in motion. Objects at rest, stay at rest. So I think anything you can do to get yourself into motion is incredibly helpful. Yeah, and once you've done five minutes, it might feel really easy to do a couple more before you know, have done seven, ten.

I don't know. But if you don't, that's also, it still counts. There's a great stat that, like, we reduce our risk of cancer just by like a ton by only four minutes of work. I think it's 32%. So like that is a time, four minutes of working out has this huge impact on our bodies. And I think that some is always better than none. And we act like it has to be perfect. Yes. We've created these weird constructs around what it has to be. And that it's almost like we build a box and then we're surprised we're in it. So what are some signs that we can look for that that need for perfection is getting in the way of us doing the hard things that we want to do?

Notice how you talk to yourself. It is as, as, tedious as it kind of sounds, pay attention when you start new things or you try something new. Like, okay, I'm going to try to work out more. Okay. So that first day, when you went to do it, what did you say? Was it, oh, I don't have the energy. Oh, I'm not going to be good enough. And then when it comes to actual, like, projects or activities or things like that, does it take you forever to get them done? Are you up late trying to make it just right? You know, how many redos, how many startovers, how many of those are we doing? I think those are both kind of good indicators that perfectionism is creeping in. And I would say for anybody out there,

if you trash talk yourself, perfectionism is part of that. Is there a way to change our self-talk in a drastic way where we can really talk to ourselves differently? It feels so daunting. It is, but it's not. So I love bridge statements because we often think like, oh, just talk more kindly to yourself. Like, Katie, you're amazing. You do everything perfectly. Which feels so fake. Because it is. And our brain actually doesn't believe it. So this like fake it till you make it or that kind of like thought process is actually not supported by science. Our brain sees that and is like, I don't have many facts. No, I don't believe that. Oh, interesting. So how does it react to that cognitive dissonance? It kicks it out. It's like false. Interesting. Lie. So what should we do instead?

We have to use bridge statements, which people will say these don't sound positive, but that's the point, is that if my thought is I'm not good enough. Okay, I know it's a real harsh one, but we could come up with any number of things. Oh, I think that regularly. I'm like, that's not that harsh. I say that to myself all the time. Right, every day all day.

So if it's, I'm not good enough, I'm not going to believe I'm amazing and everybody loves me. This is perfect. But the next step might be, I'm open to the belief that I might be possibly not terrible. And it sounds so slight because it is. But the reason for that is that it opens us up to possibly, And I don't know if you can feel the difference, but I can feel the difference when I say that to myself versus I'm not good enough or I'm open to the possibility. I might not be terrible.

Interesting. I feel like what I do is when I think my negative thought and then I don't want to think it, I like build up this whole. I'm like a lawyer in my head. And I build up this whole case of like, well, here's proof that you are good enough, Liz. And I'm like fighting internal. I literally have these two sides that are like bringing their evidence to the table in my head. Is that effective or is that? Does it work for you? No. And it's kind of exhausting if I'm being honest. It seems like a lot of energy. Yeah. Only because, and this is going to sound really weird, but like you're overthinking it because overthinkers are underfeelers and you're trying to fight a feeling with a thought. Does that make sense? It does make sense, but that's only because I've had many therapists point this out as like a root problem of mine.

For somebody who's newer to the concept, what does it mean to be an overthinker and an underfeelor and why would those be in opposition to each other? So I also am an overthinker, so don't worry. an intellectualizer is probably the therapist in me too. I love to understand how things work and the why is behind them and all the science. But in doing all of that, that means that I'm not allowing myself the ability to acknowledge that I feel sad or that I feel disappointed or that that person really hurt my feelings. I'm just trying to make sense of it. And sense, like those are two different things, thinking and feeling. And both need to happen. But I put like 80% in the thinking and like 20%

and the feeling. And what that means for me is that then I'll like explode at random times or I'll be like, I don't know why I feel this way. Because I understood it, but I didn't allow myself to process it. Well, and there's also only so far I can get by thinking it through. Like I've tried to think myself out of my fear of flying. I've tried to think myself out of my self-talk, my negative self-talk. And it can only take me so far. So if we want to become feelers more, what can we do to bring that balance in? It's tricky little by little. I mean, journaling's a great. way because it's great for thinkers too because we feel like oh I'm really making sense of all this this but when you're journaling I want you to stop and I want just to think to yourself where do I feel

this in my body and what is it trying to tell me I also love the feelings wheel I use that a lot feelings wheel.com if you have a tough time like identifying what you're feeling because you might not even know like for under feelers it can be hard for us to identify what it really is and that can help you figure it out give you words to put to it I'd encourage you to in your brain go back to younger of you and write a letter from her to you now. And I know that sound, you're like, how is this helping anything? Because she probably has a lot to say about what's going on right now. And she probably feels a lot more because I find personally that I get more defensive

as I get older because we build up these like protections from experiences and things that have happened so much so that we're like shielded even from ourselves almost. And being able to tap into like younger me, especially teenage me, she's super emotional. almost too emotional for me. Being able to, like, have a conversation with her has been incredibly healing. Okay, let's do another one. I want to go to bed earlier, but at night I keep delaying going to sleep because that is my only me time. Ooh, this is a good one. And so many of us do this, the best answer is to do it in five-minute increments. Because we can say, like, oh, I usually go to bed, I should go to bed at 10, let's say, but I'm going to bed at midnight. Okay, well, let's try to go

to bed at 1155. And I know people are like, but that's not the goal. But again, it's not perfectionism. It's not black and white. It's moving it slowly. And I'd even encourage, and this is something that I do personally, is, if you can go to bed 1130, reward yourself tomorrow. Maybe I get to go to Starbucks. And it depends on what your budget is and stuff. But like, give yourself a little, ooh, I did a thing. And don't make it so drastic. Let's make it something that's more sustainable. Because you still need that me time. Everybody does. And I would also say that if you're doing this, it might be a sign that you're putting me time as the lowest priority on your to-do list. So the only time you have for me time is from like 1130 to midnight. And I'm like maybe that's a sign we need to move some me time up on our to-do list

a little bit. I 100% agree because so often, and that's even like the people pleasing stuff is like we can put other people ahead of us. And that means that we get like what the dribbles and drabs. I'll never forget I was going to do a collaboration with another YouTuber where I was having a tough time scheduling. And the only time that worked was when I would normally do my yoga class and he would do go on a run. And I was like, well, I can move it. I can just not do it that day. I'll just do another day. And he's like, those are non-negotiables for me. That's the thing that I do for me. And I don't move it because I put it in my calendar like I would any appointment. And I was like, why is he teaching the therapist? I should be better at this. But society gives permission to men

to do this a little bit more than women. So I think to that like self-forgiveness element, I think women are not socialized to put themselves first. We're caregivers, right? We're supposed to give to others. It's supposed to be the creators of humans. And like we do all the rearing, all the stuff like that. I feel like it is kind of the way that we're brought up. It's like in my family at least. It is very women focused that we do all the caregiving. Yeah. I'm curious. You're child free by choice, correct? Yes.

Did this people pleasing part of yourself factor into that conversation or how did you guys come to that? So there's a lot of factors, really. But for me, I always thought that I would have that itch that all of a sudden I would be like, I want to have a kid. It'll happen. It's supposed to. And it just never did. And Sean and I, when we first started dating, we're like, yeah, we'll have kids. And then we were like, I don't know if we will. You know, I met him at 24. And we got married when I was almost 30. So we kept talking about it. And we didn't really know there's that piece. And then the piece that, like, I give a lot of myself. And I really love my time with Sean. And I don't want to divvy it up with anybody. And then I think in general, I knew the effort that it would take to bring a child into the world. And if I going to do it, I'd want to be the best mom. The sacrifices that need to be made to make that happen just aren't for me. I talk a lot on this podcast about mine and my husband's decision on whether or not to have kids and I explore this choice a lot as a topic. But I think one of the reasons I gravitate towards it so much is because it's a microcosm of this greater societal conversation around like what a life should look like versus making your own choices. And it

feels like just like one of the ultimate representations of that. And I'm fascinated by people who are able to push through all the shoulds and make the decision that's absolutely best for them. Did you find the shoulds entangled with this conversation tricky? Yes. And the thing that really pissed me off was, first of all, it's my own shoulds about like, well, then am I like the full representation of a woman, which what, like, where did that come from? Weird thought process, right? Also the fact that when Sean and I got married, he never got asked. I always got asked. Last I checked, it takes two to make a baby, and then also we both have to raise it. And I found that so infuriating that I would be the, I don't know, there's something about it that I just found so agitating.

But I think in general, the stories that I hear from people or the claims that are made are like, well, don't you want someone to take care of you when you're older? Or like, well, don't you want to have like a big family. And either of those things just seem very selfish to me. Like I would have a child so they could take care of me when I'm older. That doesn't seem right. And like, oh, I want to have a big family. That's expensive. That's a big time commitment. Why is that what's expected? It just seems like there is this like path that we're supposed to go down. You're supposed to get married at a certain age. I remember my girlfriends who weren't like dating anybody at 30 started to like panic and got married and getting divorced, you know. So it's getting married. We're supposed to get

supposed to have kids, we're supposed to own a home, we're supposed to do all these things. But I'm like, are we? Is that really what it means? What if we're just better people? What if we're nicer to each other? What if we have friendships that feel like family? And I'm not saying we can't have family and people can't have tons of kids if they want, but that's not the only route. What would you say to somebody who feels stuck in a lot of those shoulds, whether they're coming from society or their families or their friends? What would you say to somebody who wants to break free from those shoulds but can't figure out how? Take some time and consider what your values are.

This is something that I did, and I still try to do it every year. I'm going to do it again here in a few weeks. Because we want to make sure that the choices we're making are aligned with our values. When we act out of alignment, when we do things that aren't aligned with our values, we end up with a life we don't want. I think that's when we feel like we're unhappy. People wake up at 40 or 50 or 60 and are like, oh, my God, what happened to my life? Or I don't even, like, people in marriages, I don't even like this person.

Why am I with them? And so if you feel like, hey, I'm stuck, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, like there's a lot of shoulds, people telling me what I need to do. Let's stop the noise. We're so afraid to get quiet with ourselves. There's so many distractions. It's so easy to get on your phone, scroll through social media. Take a quiet minute, maybe get up 10 minutes earlier in the morning, and just sit with yourself and consider journal about it's a new year. So we have a whole bunch of months that we can fill with whatever. What are your goals for that? And what do you want? And are those aligned with the values that you have? And then if you feel like the shoulds are

getting too loud. Let's make a little chart, like a table in the middle, shoulds that are coming from me and shoulds that are coming from other people. It can be so hard to extricate them after a certain point, though. Like our parents' voice starts to sound like our voice after enough time. Yes. And that's where it can get complicated. But if we quiet down, if we take our time, I think we can tease it out. And it's okay, maybe a middle column of I don't know where this came from. But I think if you get quiet and you listen, you'll feel it. For me, when I try to make a choice that is not what I want, I will ask everybody for their feedback. And it's because I don't feel like I don't have the courage I need to say that this is my choice.

Oh, that's so interesting. I look for other people hoping they'll validate so that then I can be like, yes, that's what I want. But if they don't, then I keep going and I keep asking. And those are the like, quote unquote decisions that keep me up at night. But they don't keep me up at night because I don't know what I want. They keep me up at night because I don't have the courage to make that decision right now. Interesting. I also wonder if you write down like, I should do this and you just sit with that sentence for a second, if your brain will kind of feed to you like, when did I hear this for the first time? And you'll begin to untangle like where that came from. Oh my God, my second grade teacher was the one who actually told me this and told me I wouldn't be good enough unless I acted like this. Yeah, I think so. And also you can feel like when you're writing it, like when you're writing things that feel exciting and real, like if you're trying to manifest something, let's say, and you're like, this year is going to be my best year ever. It feels very. It feels very.

easy. It feels very light. It's exciting. When you write things that you don't really want, like, oh, I should have a baby. For me, that just doesn't, it's incongruent. Like, it doesn't feel good. So just notice, you know, does it feel easy and light and exciting to write it? Does it feel a little rebellious? Or does it feel like it's just not part of you? The number one rule of habits is to make the things that you want easier and the things that you don't want harder. Yet so many of us want to eat healthier, but so few of us actually take the steps to make eating healthier easier. That's where Marley Spoon comes in. What I love about this company and what's different than all of the other companies out there that are doing stuff in the same arena is that you can customize your choices

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like you feel like you're at a nice restaurant. We're talking like chicken Milanese with a crunchy, cucumber arugula salad or everything bagel salmon with truffle chive potatoes. My favorite recent meal was the creamy lemon chicken tray bake. I had one of those moments where I looked at my plate and I was like, wait, I made this and so quickly, like so easily, it's just so little effort for so much reward. Marley Spoon just makes eating well feel easy instead of stressful. And honestly, that is everything.

This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon. Head to marlyspoon.com slash offer slash Liz Moody for up to 25 free meals. That is right, up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. That is marley spoon.com slash offer slash Liz Moody. So remember to get the offer slash Liz Moody for up to 25 free meals. This begs the question, how do we know when something is a hard thing that we should do and when something is a hard thing for a reason? And that's a sign that we shouldn't be going after that thing.

Maybe it's unrealistic. Maybe it's not a good use of time. Maybe it's not aligned with our values. But how do we know when it's a hard thing in a good way versus a bad way? Going back to values and goals, as long as it's moving us in that direction, it'll be hard things. And there's going to be things you have to do that, like, I mean, you create a podcast. That's hard.

It's a lot of work. Also, you have to figure out how to interview people. That's a lot of work. But you do those things. You push through. You know, we challenge ourselves all the time. I want to change behavior. I'm going to work out more.

You figured out how to do that. So those are things. that we're moving, that are towards your values, things you want to do, things you want to create, who you want to be. And if we've spent that time kind of figuring out where those messages are coming from, then I think we can already tell which things are the hard things we should do. Like, I want to be a lawyer. Okay, we're going to have to go to law school. We have to pass the bar. Those are hard things. Or my family's always been in publishing. So I should be a publisher. But it feels like moving through sludge and I don't really enjoy it. And you know what I mean?

It's not aligned. It's one of those statements that you would feel. that you should do that's not coming from you. And so I think in general, that should help tease out a lot of it. But when it comes to like behaviors, if we go back to like people pleasing perfectionism, I think the behaviors that we'll want to change are the ones that keep tripping us up. I'm stressed. I feel anxious. I can't sleep. I'm frustrated. Our body will tell us, our environment, our emotions, our mood will tell us when something's not right. It's so interesting. I was talking to my husband recently because maybe a year and a half ago, I did all these blood panels

and they basically came back with like, your stress is killing you in a number of different ways. And I made all these changes in my life, but I was like, I'm obviously not going to do anything about the stress. Like, nobody can do anything about that. That's just like part of life. And a year and a half later, I'm like, wait, why was I ignoring the largest alarm bell?

And I started to make some real changes and be like, I will be better at my job, better at my relationships, if I tackle this underlying thing of stress. But for some reason, I'd been like, that was, that's too crazy. And the biggest alarm bell is like, well, we all have to live with stress, right? Like, that's silly. And we do to a certain extent.

But the soup of stress that I was stewing in on a daily basis wasn't serving me in any way. And yet I was clinging to it for such a long time and acting like it was an impossibility to change it. And I think a lot of us do that where these very negative feelings, to your point, earlier, start to feel comfortable. It starts to feel like this is the normal way of living and changing it feels impossible until, I don't know, it doesn't. I'm curious, almost like, I don't know what caused that wake up call for me. Is there something that you think would cause a wake up call like that for somebody else listening? Yeah, I mean, because your experience

very similar to mine, I feel like maybe we're very similar in this way. It wasn't really about the stress or not stress. It was like your identity. Because for me, at least, I can tell you that, like, I wrap up a lot of my worth in my ability to do things for people, in my productivity. And realizing that that's where my worth came from was huge, was vital to me making good, better changes, better choices. Because I've heard stuff like that too, like, well, you're so stressed out and you're burnt out, you really, that's going to be the most unhealthy thing for you. And I'm like, everybody's stressed out.

I can't not be stressed. And it's like, I'll do all the other stuff. Like, that's fine. But yeah, yeah. I'll take the vitamins. It's a fact of life. Yep. I'll stretch, I'll do some yoga, I'll light some candles.

Yeah, we're like, I'll do all the things. But it wasn't actually about that. It was about what it would mean for me as a person internally to not have that be my identifier, like my label. And that felt too, again, I didn't have the courage at the time. And maybe you didn't either to be like, I can let go of some of this. I don't know if it's women or if it's just my personality. But I always feel like in order to be successful, you have to hustle for it. You have to like really grind.

And I think the better question would be like, what do I believe this says about me? And if you can answer that or at least be curious, not judgmental about that, then you can figure out how to make the change. Because that's where my aha moment was too, where I was like, actually, I don't think that that's the only way I can be successful. I don't know why that's what I have told myself, you know? And like, I am enough as I am. I don't really believe that just yet, but I'm working on. it. So I'm saying I put it out there. You know. And it's hard to change those, those deep rooted beliefs. A big one I'm working on this year is that things don't need to feel hard to be successful,

like that success can feel easy and joyful and light. And I think that's a narrative that will hopefully help with my stress response. What did you do to help with your stress in a pragmatic way? I do not negotiate my time, my alone time, like journaling time in the evenings. It's non-negotiable. I do it. I make time for my exercise, which sounds silly. And you're like, but isn't that like a to-do list? No, it makes me feel better. Let's do. I want to eat in a way that supports my health, but when I'm stressed or rushed, I default to whatever is easiest, fastest, or most delicious. I mean, the eating disorder therapist to me is like, you can eat all things in moderation. But if it's not aligned with what you want and you don't feel good when you do it, then we need to make other

options available that are just as easy. Because I'm the same. Like, if I don't have time, I'll just grab something to go, but you should have things that you can grab to go that are easier. And also, then why are you not prioritizing that if that is a value of yours? If that is something that you want to change, why is it at the bottom of the list? I feel like there's going to be a lot of list rejiggering happening after listening to this episode. Yeah, because we don't realize, if you're really honest with yourself, just start noting the things that you do in a day and then put little numbers by what priority you think they are. You know, if you have 20 things, what's number one? It's so interesting. Would you say that's one of the top reasons we're not achieving our goals or living our dream lives is that our lists are in the wrong order? Like the things that we say we want we're putting at the very bottom. 100%. We don't prioritize the things that are actually important to us. We prioritize what people tell us should be or what we think should be. Okay. So then what if somebody listening is like, well, Katie, things one through 10 on my list, though, are things that I have to do. Like I don't get choice in them. And so then when I get to the part where I have choice, I have like seven minutes left. We always have choice.

again, it's about courage to choose it a little differently. So what I mean by that is, like, because my girlfriends would say this who have kids, where they're like, oh my God, I like get up early. It's right into it. They're already up. I have to, you know, okay, well, then your choices are I can get up earlier so I have time for myself. Or that means that I, I don't know, like, whether it's your lunch break, whether it's before pickup. There's other windows of time. Can you ask your part? partner your spouse to take care, to get them in the bath so that you get that time. So you get that. You just carved out 15 minutes. I don't know. Everybody's schedule is different. But again, we don't feel sure enough or courageous enough or want to make that difficult choice

to get up early. I'm not a morning person either to make that time for us. It's all about choices. I'll never forget one of my best friends, Joanna. I worked with her for many years. And I was doing the YouTube channels and doing five videos a week for a while. And she was like, I don't know where you find the time and how you do it. And I remember thinking, I don't either, but I just do. And I think in general, we always think, oh, I just don't have enough time. I can't do this. We're not making the time. We're not prioritizing it. And again, I know people are going to get pushback and be like, things are packed. Do you have five minutes? Do you have 10 minutes? Can you take a little extra longer shower in the morning? You know, and we think often self-care or change has to be

big things and take up all this time, no. It's in the small moments. Like when someone asks you to take this one extra task on, can you say no? That just freed up some time. When your child says, I want to make lasagna tonight and that's like super labor intensive. You're like, you know what? I was going to grab a rotisserie chicken from Costco. Can we do that? And I know those things sound like silly and not in line, but that's how you open up time. It's your different choices. So would you say one of the hacks here is just coming from the place. of assuming you have choice and then zooming out from there and saying, where is the choice instead of I don't have any choices? Yes, because otherwise it's either disempowered or empowered,

right? I have no choice life is happening to me or I have choices I make every day and I can make things better. And I know nobody's life runs like on schedule at this exact time, but, you know, like one of my best friends, Aba, her with her boys, she got them into like book time and it's just like 15 minutes, but she's like, that's when I get to journal. And so they all sit around. They sit with her. But, you know, they're like reading, doing their thing or doodling. And that frees up that time. It doesn't have to be perfect. Doesn't have to look a certain way. Just find a way to weave it into your schedule. What I like about that so much is that I feel like agency is one of the most under-discust secrets to living our best lives. Like feeling like we have agency is a secret to

decreasing our anxiety, feeling like we have motivation to the point of this episode, doing hard things, achieving our dreams, going after our biggest goals. And every time we tell ourselves, the narrative that life is happening to us, we are chipping away at that sense of our own agency. So what I love is you're saying, you actually do have agency, find the tiniest, tiniest amount of agency, lean into that, and that's going to help you practice agency, which I think is going to have all of these down-the-line benefits for your entire life. 100%. Because other, like, think of even just how it feels to hear me say, life is happening to me versus I'm choosing my life. It's a very different feeling. And that's, I mean, so many of us

just let life happen to us. And we won't make choices because we aren't sure. And then it's the choice is made. The indecision is the choice. Or the, I'm just going with the flow ends up being things are happening to me. I'm not actually participating. Wait. The indecision is the choice is so interesting because for everybody who's like, well, what if I make the wrong choice? I don't want to make the wrong choice. Every second you're not making a choice because you're afraid to make the wrong choice. You are making a choice. Yes. The default will be the choice. Whatever is going to happen regardless is going to happen now. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. And we get stuck in that, though, because we can be scared. Oh, I'm going to make the wrong choice. And there was a woman, she's a psychologist. She does research into decision making and stuff. And she was

like, it's not about making the right choice. It's about making the choice right. And she was like, you can never know everything, right? Do you have any advice for somebody who's like the hardest thing for me to do is to make a choice? How can we push ourselves in the right direction or push ourselves in the direction of least regret. There's a couple of pieces. I think the one thing that we're always wanting and seeking is certainty. And we have to chip away at that because nothing's certain. Nothing's given. Do you know what I mean? We don't know if we'll be here tomorrow. And that sounds really like drastic, but it's the truth. We'll never know with 100% certainty about anything. That's just not how life is. And so we have to acknowledge, I'm not going to know. And that's okay. It's the fear that holds us.

So it's like figuring out, and I know this is like, it's hard work. It's not easy. But I would encourage you to set yourself a deadline. So I have this decision to make. And it all relative to what the decision is. So if the decision is like, where do you want to go for dinner? I give you five minutes. If the decision is, should I have a child or not, I give you like a year to bowl it over.

I feel like that's plenty of time to talk and figure it out. Or what school to go to, I give you about a month, right? Whatever the timeline feels appropriate, set it and hold to it. Like it's a deadline. and you have to figure it out. And I think that at the very least, it forces you to give it the space that it needs because you only have that time.

If I'm worried about it and I'm not thinking about it, I should be doing my research or I should be doing my pros and cons lists or whatever. And I do want to encourage everybody to at least spend a little time by yourself, maybe in your car, music off, no distractions, on your way to work, thinking about it. And I think you'll have your answer.

And it can be big decisions. Like, should I stay in my marriage or leave my marriage? There's big decisions out there. It doesn't mean we should be making them willy-nilly, but I think we all know if we're quiet and we listen. We know what we want to do. So give yourself time to think about it. Put your thoughts together. And then go for it. You can't make the right decision, but you can make it right. And the quicker we decide the sooner that path opens up. And then, yay, we're on a new trajectory. What's your best tip for increasing our courage? So once you're we make the decision we can go for it. That self-worth, that self-talk, like we're talking about the bridge statements, all that comes from a knowing of self. And in all this work we're talking about, whether it's journaling, whether it's values, whether it's talking more kindly to yourself, doing the things you want to do, all of that builds up for that. Because I think in general, if we're kind of letting life happen to us,

if we're kind of on autopilot, that's not a place of confidence. That's us just kind of laying back and like taking it, like, ah, what can I do, you know? And so if we're actually sitting up, and we're paying attention and we're trying to make better decisions. I think already that's a huge leap of confidence. And one little hack that I have when it comes to building confidence is it's a tool in DBT, dialectical behavior therapy called building mastery. And so if anybody's feeling terrible about themselves and doesn't feel like they have any confidence, learn how to do something. And I know that sounds so silly, but like learn how to make a mug. People do it all the time. I watch it

on Instagram. If you know how to make mac and cheese, learn how to make the best mac and cheese. get really good at it. Learn to play the guitar. Get on Duolingo, learn a new language. And I know all these things you're like, well, that's just more stuff on my to-do list. No, just pick something that you already kind of know and just get better at it. And then maybe teach somebody else. All of those steps make us feel really confident because then we're a master of one thing. I can do this really well. And it sounds so silly, but I think anybody out there who has like a recipe, people always ask them to bring, there's a little sense of pride and like, oh yeah, I'll make that bean dip everybody likes. I'm going to make my chocolate chip cookies everybody always talks about.

There's a little bit of confidence there. And that's because you've built mastery. That's your thing. You do that thing. So let's find a thing. Everybody has talents. Find your thing and get good at it because that's a way to like internally build that. And that will increase your courage.

So like in a way, becoming the best chocolate chip cookie maker will give you the courage to leave your marriage if you feel that's the right choice. It helps you feel good in yourself. And I think one decision grows into another like a snowball. So if we feel confident, ourselves, then that might mean that we speak up at work a little bit more, or we say no when we're asked to do something we don't want to do. And all these small decisions build into bigger, like if we're making big changes, like, oh, should I leave my marriage? I think my husband or

wife is kind of abusive or a little bit emotionally manipulative or whatever. It can push us to at least bring up that subject and maybe get into therapy or whatever, whatever the choice is for us. It all builds. And I think we often think we have to leap to the end and be like, oh, I have to make this big thing and I have to be super confident and I have to do this. It starts small. It starts with like, how do I talk to myself? Is there something I can get better at? You know, am I aligned with my values? Am I even spending time with myself? Am I prioritizing anything that I care about? Those are all confidence building. Okay. I feel like that's a nice, honestly, segue into the next one. I want to say no or set clear boundaries, but I don't follow through in the moment because I don't want to disappoint people or

create tension. Ooh, that's right up my alley. That's my Achilles. feel. Okay, a couple of tips. Boundaries, first of all, let's just set the stage of what boundaries are. I think we talk about them a lot where they can sound like they're like, don't do this. Stop. That's putting in a request, right? I'm asking you to do something or not. Please stop doing that. Please don't talk to me that way. I can put in requests all day long, but doesn't mean you're going to do it. I have zero control over whether or not you keep talking to me that way. That's a very life happening to me, boundary, okay? So those aren't boundaries at all. Request. Boundaries are, I can put it in the request, please stop talking to me that way.

But then the boundary is, and if you keep doing it, I'm going to hang up, or I'm going to walk away, or I'm not coming to Christmas dinner, or I'm not coming to your birthday party. Insert, whatever thing is happening. That's the boundary, because I only can control what I do. Okay? That's really important. I feel like a lot of times people talk about boundaries. They don't realize that that's what they are.

Therefore, and to answer this question, if we find ourselves, oh, but I don't want to say this, I might hurt their feelings. Practice ahead of time. Write it out. You know the person you're going to say it to. What do you think they're going to say back? And I find short and simple is better. Don't give a TED talk about why you can't do something or why you don't like it when they say that because that can only give them. It's like holes or they can add a little guilt manipulation. We will do it anyways. Oh, we give in, frustrating. So keep it short and sweet. I find if people are asking us to do things that don't feel a line, we don't like it. It's uncomfortable. We know we've been doing it forever. It's okay to say, I know that. I know that. that you really want me to, I don't know, help you out with this project. I'm just stretched thin right now and I can't. Period. That's it. You know, that's like a no. But when it comes to like how people emotionally are going to interact with us, you can say something like, let's say it's your mom or dad, and you can say, mom, I really just don't like it when you treat me like I'm a kid. I'm grown. So if you keep treating me like this, I'm going to have to hang up. We've said it. We've put in the request. We give them an opportunity to meet us where we're, where we're at.

and to show up for us, and then we have the boundary. And then if they do reach out and they're treating us like we're a child, we don't have to respond. I know it's very tricky, and there's boundaries are everywhere. The hardest are obviously ones with family, and they're ones that are emotionally charged, but also I want people to know that silence can be a boundary to. So if it's really hard for you to communicate, you can try first by just not responding to those types of texts or memes or whatever they've sent you that you find offensive or hurtful and then respond to the others. Do you think that we're in danger of being a society of people who oversets boundaries and aren't willing to get uncomfortable in a way that relationships necessitate? Yes. I do worry about

the fact that I don't think we're comfortable having conversations. There was this podcast recently, Oprah's podcast about going no contact. I loved it. And no contact is its own conversation. And that's the last resort. I don't think it's like a trendy thing. But there is a piece in here where I think people will just ghost or not communicate versus have a hard conversation. And I think if we, and this is the tricky part, if you actually value that relationship at all, we have to be a little uncomfortable and we have to be able to talk about things. And I think we've become a very conflict-averse society. I know people fight online. I think that's the separate like alter egos. I think in real life, people usually don't confront each other. They don't say anything. We don't

assert ourselves. We don't say, hey, that hurt my feelings. And let someone say something back. We're scared. And so I think in general, boundaries should be helpful. And I see boundaries more as, not bridges, but it's like there are ways to keep the relationship boundaries are healthy ways to keep the relationship. Walls are not. And when you just cut somebody off and you walk away, that's what that is. It doesn't actually build anything. There's no relationship. there. A question that I think about a lot because of a traumatic event that happened in my childhood is what do we owe each other? And I see it coming up in friendships all the time. Like, if you're going through a really hard time and it keeps putting me out to be there for you,

do I owe that to you? Like, we built that into our friendship. And that's, I think that's like part of the boundary conversation of like, how much should we be protecting ourselves and protecting our energy and protecting our peace and our calm versus making it a little bit uncomfortable because that is what it is to be a good friend or a good partner or a good family member. Like do you, how do you think about those lines? There's a couple of things. There's uncomfortable and there's inconvenient, which are two different pieces of relationships. Relationships are inconvenient. You're going to go and pick them up from the airport. You're going to help wipe their tears when they're going through a breakup. You're going to be there and

support them or, you know, there's a ton of different ways we show up for each other, right? It's inconvenient, but it's part of the relationship building. Then there's uncomfortable. An uncomfortable shouldn't be the majority of your relationship. It should be the minority. It should be difficult conversations like, hey, I love you, Lucy, but you keep talking about how much you hate your marriage, but you're still in it and you're not trying to change anything. It's hard for me to just sit around and listen to you complain and not make any change. That's a hard conversation. That's an uncomfortable conversation. But that's because you love them. And that's part of that care. So do we owe people? I don't like to think of it as

owing. I firmly believe that if it can't be done with joy, it shouldn't be done. Can you be joyful about an inconvenient thing? Of course. My friend's coming home. I get a pick-in-off from the airport. I want to hear all about their trip. I'm going to see the pictures first. It's so exciting. Can we have an uncomfortable conversation about the fact that they're like in this toxic habit? it, yeah, I can be happy that at least I, as their friend, love them enough to tell them because I want more for them, because I love them that much, right? Things can be done out of love and joy versus feeling like it's owed and I have to do this. I have to cash this in. I feel like even if someone even said, like this is what parents sometimes do, like toxic parents will say,

like, well, I diapered you and I fed you and you're like, yeah, you chose to have a child. Surprise, that's what happens, you know? I don't think we owe people things. I feel like that's where resentments build and that's where people want to like just ghost go no contact or end of friendship. What are your thoughts on no contact? It's a last resort. I think that a lot of times, especially generationally, we're like talking past one another. And I think that parents can sometimes feel like they aren't being heard. And same goes for their children. And I think when we grow up in a situation where toxicity, manipulation, abuse is the norm. We don't know any different. And then we grow up and we're like, oh my God, that was horrible. And so we don't want to be around it anymore.

Or we want the dynamics to change. And they're not willing or able or we don't feel safe to communicate it. And, you know, we've tried and tried and tried. Like one of my good friends has gone in and out, no contact with her mom. And it's always nasty. It's always like this big fight and just a bunch of nasty things that are said to her. And she's like, and so then she'll go no contact again. And so she goes in and out of hoping that it'll get better. It's devastating for all involved. No one likes to do it. I know parents think like, oh, they're punishing me. No, they're punishing themselves too. It's just too painful. It's like one of the women in that Oprah's podcast that it's like death by a thousand cuts. And that's usually what it is. It's really sad that it happens.

and but I think we need to get better at communicating, and we also need to be able to hear each other out. Because there was a woman, a parent on Oprah's podcast, I could just feel the anger coming from her. She talked about her daughter going no contact. And I was like, that's never going to get you what you want. You know, if you want her to talk to you, you can't be rage-filled about it.

You have to be able to sit down. It's tricky. It's uncomfortable. But I do think there's also the onness on children, not in a dangerous situation, not an abuse of situation, but we have to be able to communicate. we have to try. They are our parents and whether we like it or not, like neurologically, we're wired to connect with them. That was how we lived as babies. And so it feels very like ego-distonic

to not be in communication with them. And so it will behoove you to try, to at least try to tell them, hey, I don't like it that you did this or, hey, this hurt my feelings, or you're a helicopter parent. I'm an adult. Can you let me be an adult? Have those tough conversations so that you can maybe hopefully save their relationship. Do you have any advice in the moment of those tough conversations? So I know we're practicing. We're maybe writing out in advance. We're thinking about what they might say back.

But in the moment, when our heart is pounding so hard and we're just saying in our heads, like, just say it, Liz. Just like you practiced this earlier. Just say it. How can we actually say it versus letting it go? Ooh, that moment is so hard. I find two things. You can have a supportive person with you.

They can sometimes help, especially if they're not as emotionally charged, like, you know, husband. I love that. Zach being like, Liz. You mentioned you were going to talk about that thing. And then they like, you have to do it. They push you in. But it's helpful because it's almost like, you're like, the water's cold and they're like,

you can take a couple more steps. Yeah. You're like, oh, okay. So that can really help. A sibling partner that can be the catalyst. I also think it's okay to step away. Be like, I'm going to go to the bathroom. Do a body shake.

That sounds weird. But all that cute up energy that you feel like your heart racing, the sweaty palms. And they're like, give it an outlet. Get it out of your system. If you don't have makeup on splash, some cold water in your face, let's get yourself together and then come out and then do it. Like, boom. And don't give yourself, it's almost like that three, two, one do it type of thought.

Like, I'm not going to give myself too much time to overthink this. Shake it out of your system. Go out, boom, say it. Start the conversation. Be like, I need to talk to you about something. I'm so proud of everybody who's listening who's going to go do that. Like, I'm preemptively proud of them. I'm like, you can do it.

I know. We can do hard things. You can have uncomfortable conversation. I also think there might be something to like picturing how you'll feel on the other side of it versus picturing how you'll feel on the other side if you don't say what you know is on your heart to say. It's the reward, right? It's almost like the giving yourself that Starbucks for doing that thing. Yeah. Like reward yourself for trying, for having hard conversations. And if we've practiced it enough, we usually kind of have an idea of what they could say. So it's

not going to be a surprise. And then we get to have that big side. Imagine how good that's going to feel. Sometimes the worst part is we know what they're going to say, but we wish it were different. And that's the grief part. And like, realize there's a big thing. And this is like a whole another conversation, but really briefly, when it comes to relationships, especially ones with parents, there's what we want from the relationship. And there's what they're able to give us. And we have to grieve that difference. And I think sometimes we go in still with childlike excitement, like hope that they can give us all the stuff that we want. But they're fallible. They're human. They're only able to give us this. And we're hoping for this. And that difference can feel really painful. And so when we're going to have tough conversations, it's important. I always tell my patients, I'm like, let's write down what you won't want. Dream a dream. Tell me, what do you want them to say? How do you want it to go out? Okay, what are they able to give you? Let's be realistic. Okay, how can we cater what we're going to say to allow them to meet us? And that part's hard. And I think every person, every child has a

parent that it's just not the same. And that doesn't mean the parents are terrible. horrible people. It just, we all have our capabilities and they can't always say they're sorry like we need. They can't always understand that we don't want them to talk about that, that that's hurtful for us, you know? Consider that and that will set you up for success a little bit more. When you think about strength and resilience, like your ability to feel energized, to recover well, to stay strong as you get older, what do you think that actually comes from? Most people say working out are good nutrition, and yes, of course that matters. But, there is a biological foundation underneath all of that that most people are completely overlooking.

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That's why many of us need to supplement it to get the benefits. This has become a staple supplement for me. It is my top way to support how I want to look and feel as I age. Support your cells and how you age with mitopure gummies from Timeline. Visit Timeline.com slash Liz and save up to 39% on your mitochondrial. pure gummies. That is timeline.com slash Liz. I want to spend less time on my phone, but I reach for it automatically hundreds of times a day, and it's the only pleasurable activity that I have the energy for.

I feel that. When I was doing, like, trying to journal, I reach for my phone. We're going to have to put it in timeout. There are tons of apps and blocks and things you can get to lock it up. Have you heard about this? Yeah, I have a brick. Yeah, that's what I say. The brick is great. I love the brick because for people listening who aren't familiar with it, It's a physical thing and you scan it and it blocks a bunch of apps for you. And then until you're back with the physical thing, you can't unlock it. So when I have the ones that live on my phone, I'm like, okay, like I set TikTok and Instagram limits like 50.

And I'm just like ignore a limit like over, you know, I can get around those. But if you leave the house and you've bricked your phone, you can't get back in like until you get back to your brick. Which is great. It's like almost like hanging it up or something. Do you think it's cheating though? Like I have this sense of like if I really could overcome my phone addiction, then I wouldn't need this thing. There's that perfectionism voice again. It has to look a certain way.

It doesn't have to look any kind of way. I think that's wonderful progress. Give yourself a pat on the back. I do think, for me at least, I need to understand why I'm using my phone and why I'm numbing out. Like, why are we disconnecting? Because I reach for it when I feel uncomfortable, when I'm frustrated. I'll say to myself, I want to unwind and then I'll feel stressed out. I'm like, this is not unwinding. like what am I doing? Yeah, that's like one of my top, top, top reasons I use my phone. It's because I'm like, oh, I had a stressful day. I want to scroll.

And I'll be like, no, you should do something that will actually like help you unwind. But it feels exhausting to like open a book or go for a walk or play like scrabble with Zach. I'm like, I don't have the energy for that. And so then I just scroll on my phone. But it doesn't make me feel better. And I just don't know how to like break through that loop. I think it's trying to find something else. That's what I'm doing right now.

I like, I like to color. You're going to tell me to knit. No, I like to color. color. Okay. But like really, when you're sitting there and you got your coloring book and you have the shiny bright dopamine stimulating situation that's designed to hack your attention and be addictive that is on your phone, you're not seriously like, the sunshine's going to be yellow today. No, but I try not to bring my phone into where I'm trying to do something different because I'll reach for it right away. I have been trying to read more. It doesn't feel as exciting or relaxing.

Even though, again, the phone is not relaxing. Let's not allow ourselves that lie. We know it's not relaxing. I think it's just finding new rituals. And I used to be really good. I didn't even look at my phone in bed ever. Like never. And now I'm not that great at it.

And I want to go back to that. So it's just having like boundaries around it. Again, not all or nothing, not perfect. And I think the bricks are great. And I think those things are helpful. Because sometimes I think we need to be like forced out of it. Because it is, I mean, it's an addiction. It's supposed to make us feel reward.

And it's almost like we're at a slot machine. And we're just hoping for that next hit of things. Something that's funny. Oh, a funny goat video I can send on my sister-in-law. You know, it's like we're looking for those things. Find something else and try something else. And then have some limits, boundaries around it. Doesn't have to be perfect.

Like, maybe don't look at it in bed. I would also say that know that something else is probably going to feel hard at first. And that literally is your dopamine coming back into a state of balance. And so accepting, like, this isn't going to feel easy. I'm in the process of dopamine transition almost. And then it will feel easier on the other side. So I've also been trying to really get back into reading as a habit this year for pleasure. I read a lot for the podcast.

But like novels and memoirs and things like that. And it felt hard at first. But now it feels much, much easier. And I do it every single night. And I absolutely love it. So I think almost that expectation and knowing it's going to be hard at first. Yeah, it's like a recalibration, right? And the, like, phone is so.

designed to keep us, like, distracted. And for me to be truthful, I think I can't have my phone in the same room. I almost have to, like, turn it off and, like, put us somewhere else. Or travel forces me, because I don't, this sounds really weird, but I don't like looking at my phone on a plane. I don't know for that long. It just starts to really, you feel it. You're like, lear. Or I do. I'm like, I don't like this. I just don't like paying for the Wi-Fi. I'm like, the extra $8, like, sends me over the edge. I know. We've already paid so much. Why you got Nicole and dime us is a weird, like ego-driven thing. I'm like, I'd like to be a reader. I'd like someone to look across and be like, oh, what's she reading? Oh, interesting. That's not a weird ego-driven thing. Like, we are most able to

form habits when we align them to our identity. So you're aligning the habit that you want to your identity. You're like, I want to be a reader is so much more effective than saying, I want to read more books. So one of the things that I tell myself when I'm scrolling or shopping or when I would have a drink, I don't drink as much anymore, but like, oh, I need a drink right now after work is that it's act of self-care. Like it's something that is gentle and nourishing for myself. How do we know when something is a numbing behavior or a coping behavior versus

actual self-care? It's all about how you feel after. After we drink, probably don't sleep very well. We probably don't feel that great. It's not that good for us. We already know that. It's like poison. Although I will say so I call myself an intentional drinker, which is very different than being

completely sober. So I drink with intentionality. And there's sometimes when I drink and I feel great after I put some intention. into it. I'm drinking in community. I'm drinking a really great glass of champagne. Yes. And then I am enjoying it. Yeah, but it's not a numb out probably. Yeah, it's not. It's not. I think actually my becoming an intentional drinker took away drinking for me as a numbing behavior and it turned it into a celebratory connective. It's much rare, but I love it when I do it. Same. And I'm the same. I used to drink much more and I just don't anymore because I'm like, I don't know why I'm doing this. So more intentionality. It's how you feel

after it's all of the process. So I think in general, let's say scrolling, we already said we don't feel good after it. Is there a way we can get our brain to lock that in? When you put your phone down, you're like, Jesus Christ, I feel like so much worse than I did an hour ago. And I'm like stimulated, I'm afraid of what's going on 3,000 miles away. And I have seven new fears that I didn't know to have before I started scrolling. Right. Like, is there a way to lock that into our brain, so our brain remembers that next time? I don't know if there is because her phones are just so well-made. Like every app is like designed to keep you in it.

And fear is also a huge motivator. So you're like, oh, I'm scared of this. I've got to learn more. We want to know more because it seems like a threat. So it's almost like it's a fighting against the way our nervous system is created. So I think in general, when it comes to things, if you're like, is this a numb-out? Is this something that I actually am caring for myself? Notice how you feel after.

And that's your answer. So if you, you know, I mean, I've been taking baths more. I never used to do that. I never had a bathtub for a while. Now when I do that, it's like so nice. And I just put on like spa music and I sit and it's lovely and I feel good afterwards. If I scroll my phone, I don't feel good. If I try to clean out my email, I'll do that at night as if that's relaxing. I don't feel good at all either. Foe shopping, dissociating completely, like not even knowing what happened that evening, also don't feel good. So just notice, you know, before and after. And that will tell you whether it's actually helping you and you feel good or connected like with the drinking like intentionally. I feel connected, then you'll know if it's good. The other thing that I think is related to this dopamine and phone conversation is the idea of anadonia. What is anadonia and how do we know if we have it? It's a part of depression.

It's like part of what we, when we diagnose it, it's one of the symptoms. It's a fancy way of saying, I don't like the stuff I used to. If anybody's ever felt a depressive episode, I've definitely had my own. Things that used to bring you joy just seem like too much work. I don't want to do that. Oh, my friend invited me out. Everything's just, ugh. And that feeling is anhodonia, and it often is, it goes unnoticed, and people will just think,

I'm just been tired. That's why a lot of people with depression will actually end up at their doctor's office first, because I think they have a cold or Lyme's disease. A lot of people will think they have something like that when it really is this, like, lethargy and hedonia type of experience. Well, and an anadonia feels a little, like there's this element to it of, I used to like, going out to dinner with my friends, and now it's not hitting anymore. I used to like watching this TV show, but now I don't have the attention span for it anymore, and I don't really enjoy it anymore.

If that is resonating for somebody, if they're like, I used to get excited about watching the Senta, now like doesn't hit, what's one thing that they could do to feel differently? This answer sucks, but it's the truth, okay? When it comes to Anhedonius, the best thing we can do is called behavioral activation, which really just means shut up and do it anyway. I know it's like a shitty answer, but it's the truth. Is it like you, the sunsets don't hit like they used to. Go out and watch them anyway. You don't want to see your friends and go out to dinner and do it anyway.

And it sounds really weird, but there is still some of that dopamine left in that behavior in doing that thing. You just aren't feeling it at the level that you used to, but it's still there. So it's like that 10% better. You'll still feel a little better. You actually might enjoy it a little bit. It doesn't feel quite as good as it did. but it'll feel a little bit better.

And so we still want to keep doing those things. At the very least, the main thing is that when we're in depression, we tend to isolate because I don't want to bring people down or I'm not going to enjoy that. I don't want to. It's such an ordeal, mom, one, blah, one. And that only makes us feel worse. So we get caught in the cycle of like, I feel bad, I'm tired,

I don't like anything. I don't want to do anything. I'm not going to go out. I feel bad. I'm isolated. I don't like anything. And we can just go round around where if we do the thing anyway, I promise you you'll feel a little bit of a lift.

And that will also, I think, give you the motivation, hopefully to call your doctor, see a therapist, and, you know, get some support. I also think about this vicious cycle with dopamine where we have wrecked our dopamine with the cheap dopamine of phones and snacks and all of these different things. And then we try to do hard things and we can't do the hard things. And then we feel shame about that, which makes us reach for these cheap dopamine heads, which makes us less able to do the hard things, which makes us feel more shame, which makes us reach for more cheap dopamine. dopamine. And I kind of feel like any place you can interrupt that cycle is going to be helpful. So whether you're trying to balance your dopamine by doing harder things like cold exposure or reading a book or doing a puzzle or anything that's kind of like feels challenging for your brain or you can break it in the shame point. So maybe you're gentler with yourself. And you say,

look, this is like the world we live in. It makes it very hard to do the things that I want to do or doing any of the things that you've shared in this episode about doing the hard things, how we can overcome those hurdles. I feel like any place you can kind of get in and break that cycle would be helpful. 100%. It's almost like thought spirals too, right? Everything picks up speed and I feel like it goes faster and faster. And you are right, like the cheap hit of dopamine. It's like we keep reaching for the McDonald's hamburger when we know that like a home cook meal is more nutritious for us, for example. Or and we'll hit more like make us feel better afterwards. Like it's not, again, the more nutritious for us is like it's a should. It's another should.

Of course, that's not going to really motivate us. And I think this is so important for people to hear especially as we're in the new year and everybody's trying to set their goals. Unless it is something that is resonant with us and our values, it's a should still. And of course, that's not going to motivate us. No. And we're not going to want to do it and it's not going to feel good, right? It's not aligned. But again, if we feel like crap because after the burger, but we're like, it takes a little bit more effort for me to get the ingredients and make the home-cooked meal. But we can do that hard thing, right? We can push through. We can try anyway. We can try to have that uncomfortable conversation. We can try to talk more nicely to ourselves. We can work towards it.

and feel better as a result. I hate these kind of old adages, but they exist for a reason. It's like, how do you climb to the top of a mountain? You take the first step, right? We have to make small little choices. And that's how we build it up. And then that also allows you to do my favorite thing, which is check boxes on to-do lists. I did that. I did that.

And that builds confidence and builds motivation and keeps us going. I love a list. I don't know if you do too, but it helps me stay motivated. And it sounds like you like putting smaller things on your to-do list. One of my favorite tips for like to-do lists and things like this is that you take your piece of paper and you fold it in half. And on that folded backside, I want you to write longer-term goals. I want to buy a house or I want to move out in my own, whatever it is. Write all those things down.

And then the inside, I want you to reference that bigger list. And the inside, I want you to think of the things you can do in one day that move you towards that list. So it's like if I want to move out on my own, did I save 20 bucks this week towards my first. and lasts. I want more friends. Did I reach out to a couple of people that I've been connected with? And it's just those small things because then you keep moving toward, again, it's aligning with the things you really want. Otherwise, we have these to-do lists that are like unachievable. We can't do them in one day. I feel like every thing on your to-do list shouldn't be longer than seven, by the way. No more than seven things on a list of the day, like for your day list. Why seven?

It's just the way that our brain works is easy for us to recall seven things. And so I like to keep them short and make sure that there are things that you can do in at least an hour or less, ideally in like a 15-minute, 20-minute window. Because otherwise it's hard. These aren't like, I'm not talking to-do list for work. I'm talking to do this for you. So if it's a longer thing, we'd break it up. If it's like a two-hour thing, we would find a way to be like, first, you know, send this email, like break it up into what are the smaller component parts? Yes, exactly. Why do we procrastinate and how do we overcome it? It's fear-based. So almost like all of the stuff that we're talking about, we can procrastinate because

We worry that it's not going to be good enough. We're afraid someone's going to say that our stuff is terrible. We can procrastinate because we don't think we're good enough in general already. And so we're afraid to do the thing because then it would affirm what our fear. I mean, we can procrastinate if we have ADHD. That's like, have to put that out there because it's true. I also think we procrastinate when we're doing something that we should do, but we don't want to. It depends on the situation, depends on the thing.

I think it's really important for people to recognize when they're procrastinating and why. there's always a big story in there. Like, let's say you feel like you should call your mom back, but you don't and you don't want to. Why? What's behind it? Is it because you don't like the way she talks to you and maybe you need to communicate that? Is it because you know she's going to bring up this thing with your brother and you haven't, you don't know what you want to say?

Maybe we should figure that out. You know, I think in general when we procrastinate, it tells a bigger story about what's going on, whether it's because I don't like this thing that I'm forced to do. It could be work related, and that's fair. We often do things we don't like, but it could be bigger. bigger emotional weight. What if it is just something we don't like, but we have to do? How can we get ourselves over that hump? Reward yourself for doing it. I find reward is a great motivator. Depending on the size of the project, we want to get carried away. But we want it to be something

that's really worth it for us. At the end of the day, then I get to go out to eat at my favorite restaurant. Or I get to watch a rerun of Gilmore Girls. I love Gilmore Girls. You know, give yourself a little treat, a little reward for your effort and make it something that you really want. If we have a tough time sticking with it. You can even reward yourself throughout it. So about every 30 to 45 minutes, our brain needs a break from focus. So it's a good time to be like, okay, well, then I'm going to go make myself a coffee. And I'm going to watch a little bit of my favorite show. And then I'm going to come back and I'm going to do more. So we take these little breaks to reward ourselves for staying focused and pushing through. This is like maybe a little in the weeds, but does that at all

reinforce the notion that we only deserve these good things if we are participating in productivity culture? I mean, it could, but you can reward other things too. It doesn't just have to be productivity. Like, oh, I place that boundary. Reward. Oh, I like that a lot. You know, I didn't use my phone last night. Like I made a vote in the direction of the person that I want to be. Yes, I checked one of those things. Yes, I did that reward. I very rarely get genuinely excited about skincare, but this is one of the most innovative products that I have come across in years. and I'm so obsessed with it. I've been telling all of my friends to get it, so now I need to tell you guys. Here's some science first. Your skin isn't just getting older. It's being actively broken down by something called senescent cells. These are cells that have stopped functioning but refused to die. They sit there releasing inflammatory signals, breaking down your collagen, degrading your skin barrier, and accelerating every visible sign of aging.

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That is birchliving.com slash Liz Moody. And you're going to get 20% off birchliving.com slash Liz Moody. Okay, let's do I want to make new friends or date more, but I'm scared of putting myself out there. Ooh, I love this one. They're similar but different, I guess. Dating more, we just need to get out and do things in general. I feel like as a society, we so go through the apps to meet people. And I'm not, I'm not shitting on the apps. Everything has its place. But I do believe that we need to put ourselves out there more in social spaces. And know that when you meet people, you don't have to tell them everything. You're just getting to know them. Very casual, very low lift of conversations. But it doesn't feel low lift because we're doing it less and less. So we're less and less practiced in it. So the

idea of going up to a stranger at a bar and what do you say and then what do they say and then what do you say? It feels so stressful. Totally. Because it's like we haven't worked that muscle. Yeah. So I just encourage people to start putting in the reps. Like if your friends are going out for food or drinks or there's an event. Like if there's events in your area, get hooked up with that stuff and go out more. Like I moved to a new area and I don't love it and part of it was community based and I would go to so many things. I can't even tell you the amount of events I'd try. And I just went to one right before I left for my book tour. I've just been going to all these things because you have to put your out there. The one thing, if you are super socially anxious, I always tell my patience. I'm like,

have three little tidbits or stories that you're prepped to talk about. And I know that sounds like Katie, but that can ease anxiety. If I know, oh, I have a funny anecdote, I just, oh my God, I just did this silly thing. Or I just learned this interesting thing. Yeah, I use podcasts all the time. Like, I was listening to this podcast and this came up. What do you think about this? Yeah. And that's a great, like, starter of conversation. And also, I think, want everybody to know that if it starts to get awkward, if you start to feel really uncomfortable, be like, it was so nice to meet you. I went around to the restroom. I'll catch you later. And we just, boop, we bounce out so that we don't allow it to be like crickets, quiet.

Well, you know. What's the first thing you say, though? Like when you like see, there's maybe a girl who feels like she could be your friend. You've been in the fitness class next to her for like four classes. What's the first thing you say? I always start with what we're doing. So like I had a friend I met in my yoga class, I would just say, hi, it's so good to see you. I noticed we end up hitting the same classes. How are you doing? Just a basic check-in. Or like, good morning, going to be a good class. Say something when it's early, especially class-based right before it starts. That's a short conversation. Class is going to get started. You got to go. So you just say, hi, you introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Katie. Good to see you. I noticed you're in my class yesterday or last week.

Something like that. If you're out, I think, again, what you're doing, like, hi, you know, I'm Katie. This is a cool spot. I haven't been here before. Have you? Push it to them. People love. to talk about themselves in general. So if you're ever nervous, ask them about them. And then, like, seek to understand. Ask follow-up questions. So just listen. Listen to what you don't have to think about what you're going to say next. I know people try to do that and our anxious brain will tell us, oh, my God, you're going to sound so stupid. You better come up with something. Listen to what they're saying and ask follow-ups. Like, oh, they might say, like, yeah, I've been here before when it opened or whatever. Oh, do you live close by? Oh, interesting. Oh, this is a very cool spot. Do you know the owner?

I mean, those are tons of follow-up questions. You can prepare ahead of time and have your three anecdotes. But I think short and sweet, introduce yourself, ask one question about them, see where it goes. I also want to give people permission as somebody who talks for a living to say, oh, that was really interesting. Let me think about how I want to respond to that. Like people don't need you to have a prepped answer to everything. And I actually deeply respect people when they're like, oh, let me sit on that for a second. Hang on.

Like, that was, I really want to think about what you just said. Yeah, I also love when people say, I don't know anything about. that. And I know that sounds silly, but like so often I feel like when I meet new people, I'll be like, oh yeah, yeah. They'll be like, did you watch that? Yeah, yeah. Because I just don't, I'm like, I don't know. And then you end up in a conversation where you don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. You know, and so it's okay. That's people pleasing, right? Yeah. And so it's better to just say, I don't know anything about that. Tell me more. Let them teach you. That reminds me of one of my favorite qualities in a person, which is when they'll be like,

I don't know what that word means or like, I have, I have no idea what you're saying right now. like, can you explain it? And I'm just like, I have so much respect for when somebody in the middle of a conversation, we'll pause the conversation, be like, wait a second. Like, what did that word actually mean? Yes, I feel like we need to normalize just like learning from each other. Yes. We don't have to have all the answers. And how good does it feel? When somebody wants to learn from you, you feel so good. So why are we denying other people that feeling? Yes. And also one of my like New Year's resolutions, even though I don't love resolutions so much, but like things I want to do differently is I don't want to go into places and always be the smartest person in the room.

And I'm not saying I do that, but like, I want to challenge myself to be in spaces where I don't know, like, what they research or what they talk about. And I'm like, I feel like I'm in over my head. I kind of want to do that to challenge myself to be like, tell me more about that or what does that word mean? I want to just want to learn from other people. And I think we need to normalize that and sharing in our knowledge. Yeah, I completely agree. Okay, I want to touch on burnout because I do think we talked about like prioritization lists and stuff like that, but I do think that burnout is a really big reason that so many of us feel stuck, that so many of us feel like just doing a hard thing just feels like insurmountably exhausting. I know that you struggled with burnout. Can you kind of

share a little bit of that story? When my first book came out, Are You Okay in 2017, I think? I was doing too much. I was spread really thin. I was working a lot. Productivity, self-worth. thought they equated, they do not, and just felt myself completely irritated. Honestly, I was just very annoyed with everything. I guess that's the best way I could describe the feeling for me. Like, I was annoyed when people had asked me to file, like, email me to ask another question. I'd be annoyed that my husband asked if I finished something. I'd be frustrated. I'd be like, ugh. Everything was just like so annoying. It was because I was burnt out. And burnout happens. I learned that it's when the reward that what we get,

for what we do. It's not just money. It could be, but it's also like fulfillment. Like you get to help people in their journeys and we get to see people's life change. So that fulfillment needs to be at least commensurate, if not greater than the effort. And that's when, you know, especially social media and the changing landscapes of jobs and what we do, it can be varied. That reward and the effort can kind of change. And so if the reward stays below the effort for an extended period of time. That's when we find we have burnout. And so is the solution to that to find more inherent or extrinsic, like, additive reward? Like I'm thinking, okay, maybe we need to be framing our jobs differently and recognizing the rewards that maybe our jobs bring to our life. Like, it lets me

have this house. It lets me eat these foods, et cetera, et cetera. Or we need to be finding some way to add more reward in or change our effort level, I guess. Would be the last lever we could pull. All those things. Okay. I think a lot of it, perception because people will always say like, oh, reward and they automatically are like the money that you make from what you do. And I'm like, but what about being a cat mom or a parent? Like, you don't get paid from that, but it's super rewarding. Like parents especially, reward can be low for a while when the kid is like really little and needs a lot and the effort's really high. We kind of toggle. And in life, we do that in general. So there's a few pieces. Number one, we can try to find more

reward and look at things from a lens of like, wow, this gives me so much. I'm so great. grateful for this. This is amazing. And I do find, well, we know this through research, but it's also true in practice, is that the bad things are easier for our brain to absorb. So we have to sometimes spend some time absorbing the good comments or the nice thing or the good email we got from our boss about something. We have to really let ourselves soak that up and like read it a couple times, even if it makes you be like, you know, if somebody wants to give you a compliment, take it. so that can lift that reward. But really, I find the effort tends to be where we have the most control because it's the effort we put in. So if we're burnt out, that means we have to lower our

effort. Yeah, we can raise the reward, but we also, we're already burnt out. We need to really lower that effort. And so that means boundaries saying no to things that aren't aligned with what you're wanting. That can mean taking a break if you can afford to. I never like to say that as the only option because not everybody can do that, but that might mean that you take off half day Friday, you know, and like take a long weekend. But filling your other time with actual rewarding things, things that fill your cup. And when you lower that effort for that one thing, I want you to take that time and energy and I want you to put it into something that is that breath in, that fulfilling, like time with a good friend or spending more time in nature. Like I love to go snowboarding. So

it'd be like maybe I go snowboarding. Or if budget's an issue, maybe we go for a hike or we go for a walk with our friend on the, you know, the walking path around our house. Specifically, what did you do to help your burnout? I took a break. So I went and stayed at my mom's. My husband and I drove up. We stayed there for a month. Not everybody can do that. How did you know? Like, how did you know that you were so burnt out that you needed to go spend a month at your moms? I didn't enjoy what I was doing anymore, which I've never felt. And I, like, hated it. And it was that like every little thing is annoying. Yes. Everything. And it got to where I just didn't even, it's like I just didn't even want to do anything anymore. And I was just agitated. And when people would be like, well, well, they'll just

take this off your plate or you don't have to do it. I would just be like, like, I just didn't even feel like myself. If I'm honest, like probably a little bit depressed, like the enjoyment wasn't there for regular things. And when people, like, things that I normally want to do, I didn't even want to do. Because I was like, I'm so tired. Like, are you kidding me? You know? Again, agitation, which isn't, isn't how I am normally. So it felt very like something's wrong, you know. So you drove up to your mom. Yep. We took a break. What else happened? I restructured how I work essentially. I like non-negotiables, like making sure that I get time with friends, making sure that I get time to move my body, saying no to things, which I know sounds simple, but like I'm definitely an overworker. So I'm like,

oh, I can squeeze that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can make that happen when I shouldn't. Recently, when I was on my book tour, I was going to book other podcasts, like that I could do for my podcast. I was like, oh, perfect. I'll do swip swaps. And this would be great. And my husband was like, let's not. That's a lot. You have a thing every day. So let's not add double things every day. And I would have fought him normally and be like, I just do what I want. But I was like, he's right. How do you reconcile the missed opportunity there? The idea that like if you just recorded this podcast, it would get your career this ahead. And then everything would be magical and wonderful. I try not to think like that. Because anything that's going to find me won't miss me. I can't do

everything. And I feel like even as you say that, to me, I'm like, oh, that's like that perfectionism voice that like it has to look this way or it has to show up this way. Life just isn't like that. It shouldn't feel so forced and it shouldn't come at a cost of me feeling okay, right? Because is that really success? Then we're talking like reward and effort. Efforts going way up, even if the reward's like, oh, things happened a little bit. Like, is it balanced? If somebody's listening to this and they're like, I am so burnt out, what is one simple action they could take right now? Go outside. walk around, no headphones, no distractions. I think moving your body and getting outside is really, really helpful.

And I also just encourage them to think, try to think of something that feels good. Like if you leave a friend's house feeling like full of excitement and rejuvenation, note that. That's one of your tools. We need to spend more time with that person. But we just have to get back to the things that you enjoyed doing. And that's my biggest piece of advice because I feel like, When we get burnt out, we don't do anything we enjoy and we do the things we quote-unquote have to do.

So that's one. Other tip is like lower the bar. Like good enough is good enough. If you're over extending yourself in like one area and you can see it, you're like, oh my God, I'm doing this way too much. Let's, let's half-ass that. We don't have to do it full out all the time. This sounds silly, but like even just calling it burnout, calling it what it is was helpful to be like, this is what I'm experiencing, like putting a name to it. I mean, I know our brain likes to be able to understand it and make sense of it.

I think that can help too. Why do you think so many of us are burnt out these days? Like, are there non-obvious contributors that we might not be thinking of? There's two that come to mind. One might be obvious. Our phones. Too much stimulation. And I don't think it's healthy for us.

I don't believe that we as humans were meant to be exposed to so much. Also, when COVID happened, we started working at home more. That's not good. We need separation. We need different spaces. It sounds so silly, but rituals around like switching spaces. My husband and I talk about this because we both work at home. So like you put on your clothes to do work and then you need to change your clothes or do something.

It needs to be in its own room. It needs to be separate. And I know some people are like, I don't have the space. I'm in New York. Maybe we do co-working. We have to find a way or maybe there's a ritual. You get out of your apartment and you go down. You walk around the block and you come back in.

And that sounds so silly. But those things are important and vital for us to shut off work brain and go. into a personal brain because I think what happened during COVID and all this melding of times is that we work constantly and we talk about work constantly and people have gotten comfortable with texting in the evening and emailing in the middle of the night or on the weekend and it's like no no no I think it's already robbing us that we have five days of work and only two days of weekend that's already just not fair so let's get back to those boundaries do you do a four-day work week yourself kind of yes and kind of no I don't schedule much on Fridays in general I have one meeting a standing meeting

And so that's kind of my day to catch up on things if I have to, but I also allow myself to sleep in. That's one of my self-care, like, keep me out of burnout things is I will often not schedule early things so that I can sleep in. Because that's my favorite. In the moment, if something feels hard and we want to quit, what can we do? Think about the why. Why do we start it in the first place? What are you working towards? Is that still important and valuable?

Then keep going. If it's not, ditch it. In the moment, if something feels hard and we want to quit, what's one thing we can say to ourselves? Ooh, you got this. You can do it. I always tell myself, like, if I want it, it can be mine. Is there a bridge statement there? Sometimes I'll tell my patience, can I do this for five more minutes? I can do five more minutes. Let's try five more minutes. In the moment, if we feel stuck, what is the first thing that we should do? Consider if it's a courage-based stuckness or if it's a should-based stuckness, meaning do I feel stuck because I lack the courage to make the certain choice that would, set me free? Or is it because I don't want to make this choice because it doesn't align with who I am?

In the moment when we feel stuck, what's one thing we can say to ourselves? I have all the knowledge that I need to make a good decision. I love that. This is an episode about doing hard things. Are there any reasons that people struggle with doing hard things that you've come across that we haven't talked about? We talked about belief about self. That's the biggest. I also, just to reiterate, because this is important, that sometimes that belief, that, about self or the story you tell yourself isn't even yours. It's something that's been told to you. And I think realizing that can be life-changing that this actually isn't mine. I didn't write it. It's not my story. It's one that my mom told me or it's one that my dad told me. And it could have been

passed down generation to generation generation, like, oh, women don't do that. Recognizing whether it's your story or whether you even want to keep telling it, it's up to you. One of the things I love that you say in your book too, is that even if you're like, I had a great childhood, I had great parents, you can still be carrying these stories that are impacting your patterns, impacting your behavior. And that doesn't mean your childhood wasn't great. That doesn't mean that your parents weren't great. I feel like almost like, I'm like, I had a traumatic childhood. I feel like I have all the permission in the world to be like, well, this is why I do this. This is why I do this. It can almost feel like more of a trap sometimes that you feel like you had a great childhood.

Yeah, like you don't want to like throw your parents under the bus or you don't want to spoil all of those phenomenal memories you have. And you're like, no, that doesn't mean you're throwing your parents on the bus. You still have the phenomenal memories. And it can trace itself to these patterns or behaviors that you might not want to have anymore. 100%. And I feel like we have a tough time, I guess one last little thing. We have a very tough time having two things coexist. Like my parents were good and they did the best they can. But I can also have a tough time with it. And I can, my parents were very lovely and had a wonderful childhood. I also have some patterns that I don't really like that I'm trying to break that came out of that. You know, those things can

coexist. We can love our parents and think our childhood was wonderful and still have some things that we don't want to repeat. I think every parent out there would be like, yeah, I want my child to have more to have better and just try to remember that. Like, they want us to have more to have better. And that can mean, I want to learn how to have conflict and figure it out. That's what mine is. I want to learn how to repair. How do I have tough conversations? Can you leave us with just one homework assignment, something that we can all do, the moment that we turn off this podcast to help overcome this difficulty with doing hard things, to help do one hard thing that will get us a little bit closer to the life that we want to have. Consider one thing when I even say this,

it pops into your head that you've been wanting to do forever and put it on your list for tomorrow, that one small step. Remember, a step that takes like less than an hour, what's that one thing that can move you towards it? Because I feel like when we can check those boxes, we start to feel hopeful and that's what I want people to have is a little bit of hope. Hope is one of the secrets to motivation that I think we do not talk about enough. Yes, because if we can't hope for a better future, how are we going to stay motivated to create it, right? Can you tell us a little bit in your own words about your wonderful book? Why do I keep doing this? Unlearn the Habits, keeping you stuck and unhappy.

This is my most personal book. This is my third book. And it's really about control and my relationship with control. I talk about all the ways it shows up in my life, whether it's people, please. pleasing perfectionism, a lot of the stuff we talked about, difficulty with strong emotions, you're following me as I tell you what I know, what I've done, and like what I don't know. Because I don't, my other books are a little bit more prescriptive, and this is more like a come along with me story. Like, let me just tell you what I kind of have learned. And at the end of each chapter, I do have little journal prompts, things that helped me along the way. I guess my hope for other people is that at least they can see themselves in part of a chapter, and I've learned

that from my community, is that a lot of us feel stuck and we want to control everything. everything, trying to keep it all together and do all the things just perfectly. And if that's anybody out there, you know, I see them. I am them. And tell us where else people can find you if they want more. All over YouTube and social media is Katie Morton, K-A-T-I-M-R-T-O-N. I have a podcast, Ask Katie, I release every Thursday and my YouTube channel every Monday. Amazing. Thank you so much, Katie. Thanks for having me. Unfortunately, that is all for this episode of the Liz Moody podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would so appreciate if you would share it with somebody that you think would love it too. It is my goal to get as much life-changing information out to as many

people as possible. And you sharing episodes with people is 100% the thing that makes that happen. I would also love to hear from you in the comment, any thoughts or questions or opinions that you have on this episode. And remember, you can get our free 21-day plan for nutrition, movement, and mental health at lizmoody.com slash January. We are in the middle of our full January transformation series where all month long we're breaking down the science of real sustainable change to make 2026 your best year yet. I know it's a big promise, but we are going to make it happen. So make sure that you're subscribed to the podcast on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, wherever you like to listen. You'll instantly be able to see all of the other episodes of the transformation series,

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