The Liz Moody Podcast - Is Being In A Relationship With A Man… Worth It?

Starting point is 00:00:00 If women stopped sleeping with men who did stupid things, would men stop doing stupid things? They probably call it the male loneliness epidemic and do even stupider things and then blame women for not liking them for doing said things. I saw a quote online the other day that said people are not dating anymore because women want men who do not exist yet and men want women who do not exist anymore. And I stopped in my tracks because it felt so dead on to me. I keep hearing from girlfriends who have opted out of dating entirely. They do not see what is in it for them. They're like, it will literally make my life harder. I'll have to do more work to not only manage my life, but also my partners.

Starting point is 00:00:42 And I won't really get anything for the additional work that I am doing. Women are asking themselves, is being in a relationship with a man worth it? Welcome to the Liz Moody podcast where we believe that there is always something that you can do to create a life that feels amazing, and we help you figure out how to find the lever to pull at any moment to actually do that. Marriage is one of the most interesting cultural institutions. It has meant so many different things over the years. It often was a way of aligning families, aligning property, consolidating wealth and power.

Starting point is 00:01:18 It's been a way of splitting labor. And all of that is changing now. Women gain the ability to vote in 1920 to have their own credit cards and buy houses on their own in 1974. Yes, 1974, which is so much more recently than I think most of us are aware of, like, my parents were born when women could not buy a house on their own, which is something that we need to collectively keep in mind. Our progress in these spaces is so recent and it should not be taken for granted. We have gained the ability to make enough money at work to support ourselves. And now, even recently, women don't need men to procreate. You can go to a sperm bank and have a

Starting point is 00:02:01 baby and whether or not you personally agree with that as a path to motherhood, whatever, it is very much a possibility. All of which got me thinking, is it better to be single? Does marriage still have value in the modern world? And I say that as a person who is married. I have been married for 10 years. As of this year, I have been in my relationship that I'm currently in for 20 years. And I am a person who, above all, values intentionality. I value not doing something because we are supposed to do it, because we should do it, but examining it and making choices that actually get us to where we want in our lives. So I started looking into the research on the benefits that women are getting from marriage versus men and into the place that marriage holds in

Starting point is 00:02:53 our society. And I started really thinking about what we're looking for here and what we are actually getting. And what I found really shocked me to be honest. So that is what we are going to get into today. Whether you are happily single, whether you are unhappily single, whether you are happily married, whether you are unhappily married, this is going to be a really interesting episode to explore a societal moment that I think is happening right now. Also, I'm going to share some ways that you can overcome some of the problems inherent to modern relationships and create a relationship that actually does serve you in the way that you deserve. So let's roll back in time. For most of recorded history, marriage was essentially an economic

Starting point is 00:03:38 and political institution. We were merging land. We were merging wealth. We were sharing labor. If people fell in love, that was nice like it has happened. But that was not the point of the institution. The most recent iteration of marriage, the one that many of us think of from the 1950s, was what was called the production marriage. That is when one member of the household, typically the man, went out and earned money. And then typically the woman stayed home and cooked meals and cleaned and raised the children and all of that type of labor. And by splitting the total labor, the household was able to get by and run effectively. Then, things like the dishwasher and the washing machine and other household technology were invented, and they cut down on the time that it took to do all of these household chores,

Starting point is 00:04:29 although obviously household chores still take a lot of energy and time, but they used to take a lot, a lot, a lot of energy and time. And around the same time period as all of these different technologies are coming out, the birth control pill is invented, and that completely changed how we had babies. women started getting college educations and they started entering the workforce, the out-of-the-home workforce, in much greater numbers. And because of that, marriages stopped being about these specialized lanes that either party went into and it essentially switched from splitting the production to needing to serve a completely other purpose, which we will get into later.

Starting point is 00:05:10 As a result of all of this, the average age of people getting married rose a third. ton. In 1960, the median age of somebody for their first marriage was 20 years old for women and 23 years old for men. And today it is 28 for women and 30 years old for men. And honestly, I feel like if you live on the coast, that's even later. I got married when I was 29 and I was the second person in my entire friend group to get married. So I was really on the early side and I was 29 years old. Okay, so the purpose of marriage has shifted. The age at which we get married has shifted. Now, let's look at what's going on inside of all of these marriages. One of my absolute favorite podcast guests that I have ever had on was named Dr. Corinne Lowe.

Starting point is 00:06:00 She is a Whartan economist and she is the co-author of a paper called Winning the Bread and Baking It Too. And her research found that even in households where women earn twice as much or more, than their husbands, they still do more housework than their husbands. And they also found that in same-sex couples, this difference does not hold. In same-sex couples, the lower earner takes on more of the home production, like the cooking and the cleaning and the chores and all of those different things. It is only with male-female couples that, regardless of how much money she makes, the amount of time that he spends doing chores does not much.

Starting point is 00:06:43 move. And I hear this over and over and over from my friends who are largely high earning and successful women. No matter what the economic split is in the household, almost all of my female friends are doing the majority of the cooking. Almost all of my female friends are taking on the majority of the mental load. Even with my friends who have had very serious, intentional conversations about being more equal in how they raise children, the mom is still taking taking on a lot, lot, lot more of the mental and physical labor. And the stuff that I hear over and over again is that it's not worth the time or the energy to manage men contributing to household labor or that they don't do it right or they don't take it upon themselves to do it,

Starting point is 00:07:31 like to take the initiative with it, that it's essentially easier and faster to just do it yourself. And so we come back to people aren't dating anymore because women want men who do not exist yet. and men want women who do not exist anymore. There is just so much truth to this. As women got college educations, as women climbed the career ladder, we essentially taught women how to survive in this new environment.

Starting point is 00:07:58 Sometimes to our own detriment, I often think about how women are taught in many ways to behave like men to gain power in these traditionally male-dominated environments like corporations and traditional office structures and how hard it is to break free. from that. But we did not teach men how to come into their power in households. We did not teach men to embrace emotional intelligence. A whole generation of men came back from World War II with severe

Starting point is 00:08:28 PTSD and many, many of them were incredibly emotionally unavailable fathers because they were struggling so much and just being completely unsupported with their own mental health. I know I saw this with my own grandfather. He never talked about what he saw or what he experienced during his time in World War II. And he never told my dad that he loved him. He never created the space for my dad to have emotional or vulnerable conversations or even implied in any way that that was okay. And so the next generation of men coming of age in the 1960s and the 1970s had to learn that from scratch. And now, the men that we are looking to date and marry in their 20s and their 30s and their 40s, they are the children of those men. They are barely generationally removed from this

Starting point is 00:09:23 shitty paradigm of masculinity. Women want men who are emotionally available. Women want men who make their lives better, not worse. And I honestly feel really bad for a lot of men because society is still telling them that the thing that we are going to reward you for is making a lot of money and providing. Women don't necessarily need men in that role anymore. We are not teaching men how to be, how to live in the modern world in a way that's not only going to reward their partners, but to reward them, to reward the men. And a lot of these men are just left out in the dust, in the dark, and they're left with a lot of anger over that. And I feel like that's incredible. fair. It's a shitty situation. And at the same time, on top of all of these things, technology

Starting point is 00:10:12 has also shifted our expectations for relationships in a really negative way. There is this idea that we have a bias towards valuing things that are measurable. It is why, despite there being so much research that shows that after a certain amount of money, money doesn't really make you commensurately happy. Essentially, you do get a little bit happier with every dollar you earn, but the amount of stress and work that you have to do to earn that dollar makes it not worth the slight happiness increase. But we also keep trying to make money because money is measurable. And something like a sense of purpose or a sense of meaning or a sense of fulfillment is much harder to measure. We overvalue the money because it's an easier thing to measure.

Starting point is 00:11:00 Dating apps have done this exponentially with what we look for in relation. relationships. We are given so few things with which to judge whether or not this is a person that we want to go on a date with, including for men, their height. Women care more about a man's height right now than they haven't any moment before in history. And it's because it's literally one of like three things that we're given on dating apps to decide if this is a person that we want to go out on a date with. Social media has also massively, massively skewed what we look for in partnerships and what we think an ideal relationship can or should look like. We see these couples that look so in love. They're doing these like fawning birthday posts for each other.

Starting point is 00:11:47 They're cooking each other breakfast and bed every day. And we can tell ourselves, I know this couple is actually having normal relationship fights behind the scenes, but it's hard to really believe it. My job is in part to create content on social media. I very much understand how you are just seeing a tiny sliver of somebody else's life at best. And you're seeing outright lies at worst. I've seen so many content creators behind the scenes living completely different lives than that which they are portraying on social media. And even with all of that, I fall prey to it.

Starting point is 00:12:28 I see people's lives online and I'm like, oh my God, why is my relationship not like that? Why aren't my weekends like that? Why am I not on a boat? And I think that both of these things combine to push expectations and all these crazy directions and to make us feel like, okay, if I cannot get what other people are having, if I can't have that type of relationship, then I might as well just opt out. I think that both men and women are feeling like that. And people truly are not dating right now.

Starting point is 00:13:02 Only 26% of single women and 36% of single men are actively dating. 74% of single women have not dated or barely dated in the past year. Only 21% of singles are satisfied with their dating options. If you are dating right now and you're looking around and you are incredibly frustrated with what's available, You are not the exception to the norm. You are the norm. That is the state of affairs at this moment in time. One of my absolute favorite feelings in life is right after a really good spa treatment

Starting point is 00:13:40 when you feel so calm and relaxed and just like ooey-gooey in your body. Obviously, I cannot go to the spot every single week, but what I can do is recreate that feeling at home. And honestly, Osea is the biggest reason that I'm able to do that. It is the brand that I keep coming back to when I want a. moment in my home that actually feels luxurious and relaxing and not just like part of a routine. My two favorite Osea products are the Undaria algae body oil and the Undaria algae body butter. They are both incredibly hydrating, but even more than that, they have the yumliest smell that I

Starting point is 00:14:15 have ever smelled. I cannot overstate how good this smell is. I give these out as gifts because everybody is obsessed with how good they smell. It's grapefruit, lime, cypress, mango, and mandarin. and it smells like a five-star hotel on a Greek island. I've not actually been to a five-star hotel in a Greek island, but this is exactly what I would picture their spa would smell like. It's like warm and summery and sexy and it's not cloying at all, and I am so sensitive to sense. And it's made with 100% natural essential oils as fragrance,

Starting point is 00:14:46 which is really hard to find, and it does not give me headaches like a lot of fragrances do. The secret to the body oil is to apply it while your skin is still really wet from the shower. actually keep my bottle in the shower, so then I turn the shower off and I apply the oil and then I kind of like wait to dry a little bit. Both of them absorbed completely with no greasiness. And what they actually leave behind is this gorgeous dewy glow. It genuinely looks like you just stepped out of a facial, but it's your entire body. And you smell so, so good. And the results are not just a feeling. A third party clinical study found that 100% of women showed

Starting point is 00:15:20 significant improvement in moisturization and elasticity. And 100% agreed that their skin looked firmer and less creepy. So it is delivering real visible change. It just happens to feel like you're giving yourself a little spa treatment while you're doing it. Osea's iconic award-winning Undaria algae body oil is for skin that deserves more than lotion. And right now we have a special discount just for you. Get 10% off your first order sitewide with code Liz Moody at Oseaamalibu.com. That's code Liz Moody at OSEA Malibu.com. This is genuinely one of the most innovative things that I have heard of in a long time. So here's the deal.

Starting point is 00:16:02 I hate getting my blood drawn. The appointments are hard to get. It's hard to know what to test for. I always end up waiting so long. So it eats up so much of my day. And then they like stick this needle in your arm. And the whole thing is just miserable. It's terrible.

Starting point is 00:16:14 I hate it. But knowing what is going on inside your body like your vitamin levels and what your hormones are doing is so important to be able to make the right decisions for your health, including preemptively treating things that are coming down the line and identifying things that might not be making you feel as good as you could be feeling right now, which is why I got so excited when I heard about rhythm. This is a home blood work test with zero pain. It feels genuinely too good to be true, but it is real.

Starting point is 00:16:45 So I am going to walk you through how this works because I was so nervous about it. They send you like a little envelope and in it there's something that looks kind of like a continuous glucose monitor if you've seen that. And you put that on your arm and you press a button. and it takes the tiniest vial of blood. And I was like, there's this guy in the video and he's like, this doesn't hurt at all. And I was like, there is no way that this does not hurt, sir. But then I did it.

Starting point is 00:17:10 You push the button. And actually, it genuinely did not hurt literally at all. I was so nervous. You can ask my entire team. I was messaging them before. I was like, I'm not sure I want to do this. I don't want to try it. But it was so painless.

Starting point is 00:17:23 It was so easy, breezy. And then I got my data back. And I found out that I've gotten my APOB down from 125 to 79, which is crazy because that is one of the top heart health markers that doctors on this podcast say to look at. And also it's a really hard one to get doctors to order tests for. It's one of the main reasons why I went on my weight loss journey in the first place. It's so, so important. And rhythm tests for it at home really, really easily. With rhythm, you can test every single month, easily, painlessly at home.

Starting point is 00:17:54 so you can actually see how the changes that you're making are impacting your body. So you can stop wasting money or time on things that are not helping. And they test, like I said, they test these things that are really hard to get doctors to give you, like the APOB, and it really clearly breaks down your results. Like, this means this, and this is how you should interpret this, and this is what you should actually do about this. It is a completely different relationship with your health. Rhythm is only $79 a month, which is a fraction of,

Starting point is 00:18:24 what traditional lab testing costs. It ships right to your door and you can cancel any time. Right now, Rhythm is offering our listeners 15% off your first month and free shipping at Rhythm.com.com slash Liz Moody. And that is Rhythm with 1H. So it's RYTHM dot health slash Liz Moody for 15% off your first month and free shipping. Stop guessing, start testing. Rhythm.com.com slash Liz Moody. Here's something that most people don't know about beef sticks. nearly every single one on the market, including a lot of the ones that seem healthy, are made with conventionally raised beef and preserved with something called encapsulated citric acid or ECA.

Starting point is 00:19:07 And ECA has been linked in case studies to inflammation symptoms like brain fog, low energy, joint discomfort, and gut issues, which explains why so many people feel kind of gross after eating them and just assume that beef sticks aren't for them, despite beefsticks being a great source of protein and one of the best savory on-the-go snacks. Paleo Valley beefsticks are completely different and the difference starts at the source. They use 100% grass-fed and grass-finished beef from small-scale regenerative American farms, not factory farms. Grass-fed beef has an improved omega-6 to omega-3 ratio.

Starting point is 00:19:40 It has higher levels of vitamin A and E. It has conjugated linoleic acid and the super antioxidant glutathione. And instead of chemical preservatives, they are naturally fermented using these same processes is like a kimchi or a sauerkraut, which means a long shelf life and gut-friendly, more bioavailable nutrients, no added nitrates or nitrites with zero grams of sugar. I have loved Paleo Valley for years. They create some of my favorite energy bars and protein powders too, and they just put an incredible amount of thought and care into all of their sourcing. Their superfood bar is actually one of the very few that my personal RD approved in terms of the sugar, the fat, and the fiber ratio.

Starting point is 00:20:22 it's really, really hard to find bars that aren't too high in sugar or that have fiber or don't have other weird ingredients. And these ones pass mustard. The red velvet and then the apple cinnamon are my favorite flavors. Also the dark chocolate. Honestly, they're all really good. But the red velvets, like I haven't had anything like that before. I really love it. They have a 60-day money back guarantee. So there is zero risk. And right now, through my link, there's a limited buy one, get one free deal. So head on over to paleovali.com slash Liz Moody or use code Liz Moody at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. That is paleovaly.com slash Liz Moody or code Liz Moody at checkout.

Starting point is 00:21:02 And unless you're like, why does Liz hate relationships so much? There are very clear research benefits to marriage. We talk about this on this podcast all of the time, how we are in a loneliness crisis and how oxytocin is an anti-inflammatory compound that gets released when you're around people or pets that you love. There are all these very real physical health benefits and very real mental health benefits from socialization, from being around other people that you like or that you love. There was a meta-analysis that looked at data from over two million people, and it found that unmarried people had a significantly higher

Starting point is 00:21:45 risk of developing heart disease and a significantly higher risk of dying from it. There is a Harvard study that looked at more than 700,000 cancer patients, and it found that married patients were more likely to be diagnosed earlier, more likely to actually complete their treatment, and less likely to die of their cancer. The benefits, this is crazy, I learned this in a recent podcast episode, the benefits were comparable to chemotherapy. There are huge mental health benefits to physical touch, to being around somebody that you love, to having somebody to talk about your day with, but this is the missing piece of the conversation. Are you ready? For men, they get all of those benefits. Plus, statistically, according to the research, they also

Starting point is 00:22:32 get the benefits of doing literally less household labor, doing less child rearing, and having a partner that these days is more often than not contributing a pretty significant amount of income. For men, being in a relationship is a win, win, win, win, win. For women, they're not. For women, They are getting these benefits that we talked about, but they are coming at a cost of their time, their energy, their labor. More and more women are feeling depleted in exactly these categories. They are in the relationship doing the math of, is this worth it? Or they're single and they're looking at these relationships and they're doing the math of, is this worth it? Is this even what I want?

Starting point is 00:23:16 Here is my take. the best marriages today are the best marriages in human history. They are marriages where people are feeling more supported, more spacious in their financial lives, in their emotional lives, in their sex lives, in their parenting lives, in their socialization lives than they ever have before in history. And at the same time, the worst marriages are feeling more and more intolerable. I come away with a few takeaways for this. I love a takeaway. I don't love to just like stir the pot and then be like, well, here's the pot and joy. One of my takeaways is that we have more choices than we ever have historically. And that is such a good thing. I for one do not think that it is womankind's responsibility to be in relationships that are not serving them just to bring the men up generally. I do not think that it is up to the women to save the,

Starting point is 00:24:14 the men from their current fate or their future fate. It is up to all of us to adapt to the world as it is. And this is something that I come back to over and over and over on this podcast. We can spend so much time wishing for what was, for what could have been. Or we can say, okay, this is the actual situation. Now, what am I going to do with that? Men sitting around and wishing that women saw them differently or wishing that it was a different. time period is not within their control. What is within their control is how they show up every single day, who they talk to, how they present themselves in and out of a relationship. The same for women. We can sit around wishing things were different. We can sit around lamenting

Starting point is 00:25:02 the situation as a whole. Or we can say, what is the agency that I have here? What are the levers that I can pull? And we have choices and we should be exercising them. it is perfectly okay to say that you want to raise a child with your best friend. It is perfectly okay to live communally with your friends or your sister or your grandmother. I think there are so many versions of a phenomenal life that do not look anything like, man, woman, single family home. And that makes sense because that version of the dream has only existed very, very briefly. This is a post-World War II GI Bill dream.

Starting point is 00:25:44 that essentially these veterans came home and they had the economic ability to buy single-family homes, and so that became the New American Dream. Before that, most people lived intergenerationally. Most people lived in far bigger communities. We don't need to hold on to this one version of the dream just because it happened to exist for a brief recent moment in history. So that is step one. We have more choices than we ever have before in history. Let's start celebrating making that, instead of clinging to a time when we had many, many fewer options. The other thing that I think we need to do is focus far more on the marriage than the wedding. This is another really shitty consequence of social media.

Starting point is 00:26:30 Weddings are very easy to put on social media. There are pictures, there are videos, there are declarations of true love. The true work that you put into a marriage is very hard to capture in likable, engaging content. And of course, we dream about what we see. When we see all of these beautiful weddings all over our feed, that is what we dream up. We need to shift what we dream of to being the day in, day out of a marriage. And we need to choose our partners accordingly. You're not looking for somebody who's there to look good in an Instagram photo. You're looking for somebody that you want by your side if you get a cancer diagnosis. You want somebody who's going to try. You want somebody who's going

Starting point is 00:27:14 to treat your parents' health challenges as they age as an equal problem of theirs. You want somebody who's going to make the day-to-day of living a life from grocery store shopping to dealing with flight cancellations, dealing with work challenges, to fun stuff, like making plans with friends and going for walks and hitting health goals. You want somebody who's going to make all of those day-to-day things easier. There was one study, this is crazy, that found that the more our wedding costs, the more likely we were to get divorced. Women whose weddings cost more than $20,000 had 3.5 times the risk of getting divorced than women who spent $5,000 to $10,000 on their weddings.

Starting point is 00:27:55 And I'm not saying do not have your dream wedding. I am saying your wedding is a blip in time. Do not pick your partner for your wedding. Do not spend your energy, your focus, your time on your wedding. Pick your partner for your marriage. spend your energy, your focus, your time on your marriage. I also always have to shout out Eve Rodsky and her work on mental load. I have had her on the podcast.

Starting point is 00:28:22 I can link that episode for you. What I like about her framework is that you sit down and you go through these cards, her fair play cards, and then you talk about every single thing that could cause mental load in a relationship from being the tooth fairy to planning Wednesday night dinner. And whoever takes ownership of those tasks takes full ownership from the beginning to the end so that no person is making the shopping list and still taking on a lot of mental load around it, even if the other person is doing the shopping. And to the point of everything that we talked about earlier, you agree on what done looks like, which is not foolproof, but it helps a lot with the like they don't actually ever do the task in the way that I want it done conversation. I will also say as a person who's been married for 10 years, you are living with another person. You are not marrying a clone of yourself. You're marrying a whole ass other person.

Starting point is 00:29:17 And I do think that coming two terms with the reality of that can be helpful on both sides. Nobody is ever going to do anything the exact way that you want the thing done. It is still better to have them do it. Done is better than burnt out. I talk about this all the time, but this is another example. of when discomfort is part of the solution. We are increasingly encouraged to move away from discomfort in how we've structured our society

Starting point is 00:29:47 and in what we're told a lot of the time, a lot of the self-help people online. Living with another person is going to be uncomfortable. You're living with another person's hopes and dreams and habits and weird little things that they do. And that is part of the point. That is not a bug. that is a feature, that exposure and learning that you cannot have everything the way that you

Starting point is 00:30:12 like all of the time is a benefit of being in a relationship. To summarize all of this, the institution of marriage is not dying. The default of marriage is. Because we no longer have to get married, we get to choose if we want to get married. And if we want to, it sure is hell needs to come with some benefits. We are part of the first marriages in human history that exists purely because two people looked at each other and they said, my life is better because you are in it. Better can be defined in a million different ways.

Starting point is 00:30:51 But if that is not true, I would really, really ask yourself whether that is a marriage that you want. And all of that means that whatever seat you're sitting in right now, you are in a good spot. If you are single and you've opted out, you're not behind, you looked at all of this very real data and you decided that this was not the right choice for you. If you're single and you want to get married still, that is also amazing because the marriage that you end up with will likely be among the best to ever exist in history. And if you're married and you're like, this takes work, this does not look like what I see on social media.

Starting point is 00:31:32 This doesn't look like my parents' marriage or my grandparents' marriage. Yep, we are all redefining marriage in real time, and that is difficult and that is uncomfortable, and the rewards that we are going to reap for that are immeasurable. I would love to hear from all of you in the comment how you are feeling about marriage these days. What do you think its role is in the modern world? What do you think its role is in your life? Is this stuff that you've been thinking about, that you've been talking about with your

Starting point is 00:32:01 friends? And if you're thinking about somebody who needs to hear the, this episode who needs to have a better understanding of some of the walls that they're running into trying to live in the modern world based on outdated expectations or outdated realities. Please, please send them this episode. I do think that this is such an important conversation that we need to be taking out of the realm of taboo and into the regular discussions that we are having so we can all reap the benefits.

Starting point is 00:32:30 And as always, thank you all for being a safe space to have these types of discussions. It just makes me so happy to have an audience that is so open-minded and thoughtful and inquisitive and intentional. I feel really just thrilled to have this community here. So thank you for being a part of it. I love you. And I will see you on the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. Did you know that more than two-thirds of protein powders tested have lead levels above California's

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Starting point is 00:36:54 or you can have something delicious, but not both an IQ bar somehow jumped in to solve that problem. So thank you very much IQ bar. Mint chocolate chip is my absolute favorite flavor, but there are nine different IQ bar options that are all great. So try them all and let me know which one you like the best. Right now, IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products, including the ultimate sampler pack, plus free shipping. To get your 20% off, text Liz to 64,000. Text Liz to 64000.

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