The Liz Moody Podcast - Jenné Claiborne—Secrets to Business Success, Cooking Tips, and What’s Missing From Our Conversations About Race In America

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

I’m excited to have on Jenné Claiborne, the founder of Sweet Potato Soul. Sweet Potato Soul is a crazy popular YouTube channel, a blog filled with the most DELICIOUS recipes, an Instagram community with over 300K members, AND one of my favorite plant-based cookbooks, Sweet Potato Soul: 100 Easy Vegan Recipes for the Southern Flavors of Smoke, Sugar, Spice, and Soul. On today’s episode, we chat about: The lessons she’s learned during the pandemic How she deals with her fears around money Her advice for helping with the divisiveness in politics, dietary preferences, and more Her thoughts on IIN and how to know how much to spend on your business when starting out Her motherhood journey, including her birth and how being a mom changed her relationship with her own mother How to find a good business coach The mistakes she made early in starting her business and how to avoid them Her secrets to making veggie-filled meals easier, more delicious, and less time consuming What type of nutrient she thinks is more important than protein and more often missing from the standard American diet How she gets her protein on a vegan diet Why she doesn’t drink coffee and what she does for energy instead Her struggles with anxiety, and what has helped The calming practice she’s relied on for more than a decade Her 37 hour labor and the practice that got her through it What she’d do if her daughter didn’t want to be a vegan How she recommends helping picky kids eat healthy The two things she thinks are missing in conversations about race in America Her secret to deep and lasting happiness You can find Jenné on Instagram at @sweetpotatosoul, and we’d both love to hear your reactions to this episode, so please screenshot and write any thoughts or questions that come up as you’re listening and tag us both (I’m @lizmoody). Enjoy! PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy on Amazon or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! Today’s episode is sponsored by Atoka Herbal Blends. They have two types of drinks, herbal shots and herbal tonics, and they have amazing ingredients—they’re 100% plant-based and non-GMO. More importantly, they’re super FUNCTIONAL—every single ingredient serves a purpose. You can get 25% off your first order using the code AtokaLiz25 at atokawellness.com. This episode is also sponsored by Garden of Life, one of my all-time favorite brands. I focused on stress-relieving products in this episode, including their Mood Plus probiotic, which is formulated specifically to help with stress and anxiety, and their magnesium chelate, which I take nightly to help avoid constipation and help alleviate anxiety. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthyer Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a long-time journalist and the author of The Healthier Together Cookbook. This podcast is all about living your healthiest, happiest life in always possible. And I love having the type of deep, nourishing conversations that really feel like soul food. I've been having a lot of gratitude lately for all of you wonderful people out there who are willing to take this journey with me to ask the bigger, harder questions to skip the shallow, conversations to cry and to challenge, but also to laugh and to find joy in it all. The conversations that I've been having with you all in my DMs after the pros and cons of motherhood episode have been so insightful and so thought-provoking and fascinating. I am constantly in awe of how amazing the H.T. fam is and what a wonderful community this is, but you really impress me more every single day. So thank you for being here and for being part of it. I really appreciate all of you. I have an amazing guest for you guys today.

I am so excited to have on Jeney Claiborne, the founder of Sweet Potato Soul. Sweet Potato Soul is a crazy popular YouTube channel, a blog filled with the most delicious recipes, an Instagram community with over 300,000 members, and one of my favorite plant-based cookbooks. I still remember when Janay's cookbook came across my desk. It was back when I was the food director at Mind Buddy Green. I got sent literally every single cookbook that came out, which meant that I was flipping through seriously like 10, sometimes more than 10 every single day. But Janais immediately stood out.

Usually, in a good cookbook, there are maybe 10 recipes that I'm genuinely super excited to make. But in Janais, there were like 50. I kept turning pages and salivating and just feeling like her food spoke to me. Jenae creates plant-based versions of food that she loves, food that she grew up with, food that. that speaks to her soul. And you can taste that in her recipes. So if you like vegetables, but you find cooking them uninspiring, I highly, highly recommend that you add it to your shelf. But Jenae's a person is just as wonderful as the food that she creates and shares with all of us. I adored this conversation. She's just incredibly honest. If you know me, you know that honesty

and openness is always one of the things that I love most about people. If I meet somebody and I'm like, oh, I like that person. It's usually because we got really quickly into. the deep, honest, vulnerable stuff, but Jenae was so honest about money and motherhood and relationships and childhood and racism and pretty much every single topic that I threw at her. This is such a wide-ranging and diverse episode. If you want to know how to make veggies tastes good, Jenae's got you there. Want to know how to help bridge the divide between people who have different political, ideological, or dietary beliefs in you. She's got you there too. Thinking of starting a business and have no idea where to begin.

in or how to make it successful. Yep, Janay's got wisdom in that department too. Want some new ideas for ways to manage anxiety and take care of your mental health? Well, you get the picture, but she's just got so much brilliance to share on so many topics. She is wise and funny and open and just a joy to talk to. And I hope that you love having this conversation, or should I say, all of these conversations with us as much as I loved recording this episode for all of you. As always, we would love to continue the dialogue.

So screenshot as you're listening and tag me. I'm at Liz Moody and Jeney. She's at Sweet Potato Soul on Instagram. And then you can also find Jenae on YouTube by searching Sweet Potato Soul and on sweet potato soul.com. Her cookbook, Sweet Potato Soul, 100 easy vegan recipes for the southern flavors of smoke, sugar, spice, and soul is available wherever books are sold. All right.

Enjoy this episode with Jeney Claybourne. Jenae, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me here. So we will go back to your childhood and all of that in a little bit. But I actually am more curious right now. I've been thinking a lot about the impact of this pandemic on our psyches. And I feel like heard an in-depth interview with you since the pandemic started. So I'm curious how you're doing at this point after sheltering in place with your baby and your husband for so many months,

just sort of where your mental framework is at right now. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think it's kind of in the same place that it was early on, March, April. I didn't even realize that we were not sheltering anymore. I thought everything was still locked down. And then like this week, they're like, everything's being locked down again. And I didn't even realize that it had opened up. I had that same.

My mother-in-law was like, yeah, everything's closing it. And I'm like, what was open? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, oh my God, I missed out because I was not anywhere. I totally was still sheltering in place. And of course, I went to the grocery store and I've been of course doing that and occasionally to the farmer's market and like I've gone to Target twice. But aside from that, nothing. And I have, I've seen friends twice. One of my girlfriends is moving and she was like getting rid of everything in her spa and I went by to buy some products. And then another friend who also has a little baby, we hung out a couple weeks ago. And that was it. I've not seen anybody since other than my husband and my baby. And occasionally some people at the park. And it is just, it's been really hard just because I'm from Georgia. I don't have my family around and I worry about them and I wish I could be with them. And like for me, I'm waiting for this to be over mostly so I can like just, you know, to get that weight off

my shoulder and know that, you know, my parents and my grandmother are safe and and even feeling like I can visit them safely because I really, really, really, really, really want to be near them. Yeah, so that's the hardest part. It's like, I'm not concerned at all about myself and I work from home anyway. We all work from home. My husband and I both work from home anyways. So that hasn't changed much. It's just like the worry and the weight of the worry that has taken a toll on my psyche. Have you had any moments of revelation or growth? I'm interested in how people are going to change as a result of this huge worldwide event that we're all going through together, essentially? Have I? I'm thinking as it relates to this, I mean, I think I've learned a little bit

more about myself and I have definitely, I don't know if I've grown. I've learned, you know, I'm a very impatient person and I don't like being at home and I don't like being in one place. I like to travel and be on the go and be out. in nature. So I've learned like the extent of how important that is for me. But am I changing? No, I don't believe so. I think I'm just like can't wait until this is over. So I can go back to like going hiking and traveling and like having that as like a very important part of my life and spending time with friends. But as far as like I do see like the world around us changing. I definitely think that this has been an amazing opportunity for people to.

to look at our own lives and see, you know, potentially like where we were not living, you know, to our fullest potential because we've been so wrapped up in our lives. The work, you know, stress about work. I know a lot of people, you know, working from home, that's given them a whole different perspective and a different, you know, their productivity has changed and they've looked at that differently. So I think that's really important. And of course, the frustration, I've.

believe has been very helpful because when people are frustrated and they have a lot of people have more time on their hands, they're learning more about our country. You know, Black Lives Matter. Like the whole, all the protests would not have had the same power and weight behind them. I don't believe if we weren't also going through this huge pandemic. And I think, you know, that's a silver lining because, you know, in our old lives where we're just totally distracted and totally, you know, just so busy and so little bandwidth. We weren't taking the time to see these other issues. And yeah, I mean, I definitely have very much been tapped into these things before.

Right now I'm very much just like, you know, I'm continuing to learn and to grow, but it's more like I'm just kind of tapped into like what other people are doing and like paying attention to what other people are doing. But I do see change for sure. Do you feel like your business has changed at all as a result of the Black Lives Matter movement that's happening? Yeah, I mean, definitely my, it's just like the following has grown a lot. My following has doubled since BLM, since June 1st. So since the protests start.

And it was already very large to begin with. So that's like a lot of people. Crazy. Yeah. I was like, I think it was 170, maybe like 174 on June 1st. And then like five. middle of June, it was like 300 and now I'm like 340 or something. So that's been, you know, really big for me. I definitely, you know, the way I make money is by working with brand. So you do these

brand partnerships on my blog, my YouTube channel, and of course, Instagram. And that has like, I think it's definitely ticked up. I have more work for sure with brands, but I always kind of had a lot anyway. I don't know if my rates have changed so much yet. I haven't really noticed so much. You got to double of it if you're double big. I feel like you should like get double money, right? Double money. And then definitely you can work with fewer brands and like, because you working with brands is kind of stressful. You know, I will say one thing. Having COVID and also having all this, you know, more opportunity, it is very difficult for me to like I, like, around like money, I'm very fearful.

You know, I'm afraid of not having enough. You know, like if we're going to, if we're going to go into some huge, you know, depression, I want to hoard as much money as I possibly can right now. So that over the course of the next however many years, my I and my family are, we have some padding, right? And so whenever, like I said, I said no to a really big partnership last week that just was not right for me at all. But the money was like,

Oh, yeah. And like, the work was easy. But it was, but I knew for sure, like, this isn't for me. But I sat on it for a whole week and a half because I was just like, can I afford to say no to anything? Also, with having a larger audience now, I definitely, and so quickly, I have a lot of fear around, you know, maybe these people who started following me perhaps because they were guilty, because they felt guilty because they weren't following a lot of black people. Maybe they're going to, like, like not want to follow me anymore. Like, you know how, like, who knows? They weren't following me before, so are they going to continue supporting me now, right? So I have a lot of fear around like these things. And so I definitely can work with fewer brands. I'm lucky that because I work in food and I like, I work mostly with food companies and appliance and things.

And I own all these things anyway. So it's like, oh, come on, you want to work with me? Great. I already use all your products anyway. So I have a lot of natural. affinity with food brands. But yeah, still, if I could work with fewer, because that's less work, then that would be good. But then I'm kind of afraid to do that. What were you raised with in terms of an attitude towards money? Like, you were raised by a single mom. I don't know how much

exactly your dad was in your life, but what was the approach to money in your household? Definitely. There's never, like, we don't have enough. And we, you know, like, just very frugal mindset. that very frugal with money. My mom, so when my parents had me, my mom was 25 and my dad was 22, so they're really young. They didn't have a lot of money. And they broke up. I don't know exactly know when they broke up. I thought it was four, but I think it was earlier than that. And yeah, my mom, she's just like a super, super hard worker. That's where I get this from. Like constantly, I was, and my dad has always been in my life and he's kind of the same super hard worker. What did they do with you were growing up, like for work.

Yeah, my mom has a cleaning service. They both do the same thing still. Mom has a cleaning service doing, like, cleaning people's homes. And my dad does, well, kind of a little different now, but he works for a commercial janitorial company. So they're the companies that do like all the floors for like staples and like Walmart and big stores like that. They started a company, a cleaning service together when I think I was a baby.

And the reason they started this company. was they also wanted to start a local black lifestyle in such a magazine. That's cool. I know, right? And the way they wanted, they didn't have any money, though. And they figured, okay, let's fund it somehow. My mom loves cleaning. Like, she was born as like, she's like a super cleaning.

Oh, my God, I can't. That's like probably the personality type I can relate to least on the planet. It's funny. My mom is not very organized, but she's like. super clean, you know? I think I'm a little bit more like that. I'm always cleaning, but I'm not like straightening up stuff. It's just like, like you're made for the pandemic. It's perfect for right now. Oh, yeah. We're like germaphobs. We're not that bad though because since I become vegan, I learn more about like all these things. I'm like trying my hardest not to be a germapope. Yeah, they started the cleaning

businesses just so they could pay for this magazine. And they ended up not doing a magazine, breaking up and continuing their cleaning businesses. And I was always like super involved. Not with my dad so much, but with my mom. So whenever we'd have like a day off, well, you know,

I was like Monday off or like, my mom never worked on weekends, but usually like spring break, Monday's off, summer break. I would have to work with her. And from the time it was probably seven or eight. And I really,

I like cleaning my house, but I hate cleaning other people. those homes because, you know, other people was just dirty and nasty and like nobody wants to, I mean, some people like that. My mom does like, she literally likes it. Like, that's the weirdest thing. But yeah, me, no. And then my dad, I was, when I would be with him, you know, we'd often be in the car for like hours and go out to some job site and then he would like leave me in the car for like, who knows, it felt like more hours. And I would just like stare at this guy or, you know, just sit in there. This is, of course, I was a little kid.

And this was before cell phones even. So I had like a book. I think that was it. I don't think I had like Game Boy or anything like that. But yeah, my family, yeah, they're like super, super hardworking, worked a lot. They were, you know, I guess you'd call it blue collar and didn't make a lot of money, especially at first. But because they both had their own businesses, eventually they made a lot more money and were

able to, you know, buy their own homes. We were living with my grandmother when my mom and my mom had. my dad broke up. And then I think I was seven years old, my mom bought her own house. And my dad, same. You know, he was remarried and has two more kids. And then, of course, he was able to buy his own house. And like, they kind of had the American dream, really. But at the same time, despite literally living the American dream, or always, they always talking about money, always talking about like how much something costs and like, I don't have enough money. I'm bro. You know I'm broke. I can't buy you this. You know I'm broke. You know I'm broke. But I don't actually think they

were broke. But that is definitely the messaging that I heard a lot. And I definitely, definitely internalize that. So for me, I make plenty of money, but I still have, like, I'm extremely frugal. I have definitely that mindset of, like, have to save. I'm like, I'm very, very, very good with money also. And I have to, like, talk myself into buying anything. And the only thing I feel really comfortable spending money on is like, yeah, nothing, actually. Was it, were you going to say food? No. I was thinking, do I feel comfortable?

I was going to say travel. But I'm like a college traveler still. Like, I won't sit in a nice hotel. Food is interesting to me because food is like the one category I give myself a full-on free pass for. Like I go to the farmer's market and I'm like, I'm supporting the farmers and I'll spend way more money than I should on. stone fruit or weird types of lettuces and stuff. But I'm like, it's my job and I have to eat and it's for the farmers. And it's not good. Well, I tell myself the same thing and I do spend the money, but I don't, I don't actually feel comfortable. Like, I don't feel like, like my husband, he grew up

in a very different, like, opposite way of like money thinking household than mine. His mom, she'll say, like, she doesn't look at the prices when she goes grocery shopping. So that's literally the completely opposite for me. So he's very much like her and we'll go to the farmer's market and he's just, or he'll go by himself. And I'm like, how much money did you send? He's like, I don't know. How much did that cost? I don't know. I literally know how much everything costs for the farmer's market, especially since we go so much so often. I know how like this person has kale for $2. They got it for $2.25 over there. Make sure you get it over there. And of course, I'm comparing quality, not just the cost, but I know my stuff. I know how much everything costs.

everywhere. Has that created friction for you guys in running a business together? Like, is he like, oh yeah, we can spend this money to grow the business where you're like, I don't know, let's think about that and be more conservative. Definitely. I'm extremely conservative. So he has to, whatever he wants to, like, for example, buy a new camera. First of all, we only buy second hand, which makes me feel a lot better. And he's on board with that too. He's not like trying to just spend some spend. But also, we usually, before we have like a big purchase, like a big purchase, like a camera purchase, for example, we'll sit down and look at, you know, our income, like current income so that I can feel more comfortable making a large purchase like that. And like we just moved from a very small 620 square foot apartment to this larger two story 1800 square foot townhouse apartment. And our rent did not double, but we were looking at spending double for our rent, which is why I wanted to leave a lawsuit. Angeles because it is way ridiculously, in my opinion, overpriced and expensive. I'm not from here.

I have no reason to be here. I think of it is so cheap compared to New York, though. I think I have such like New York prices in my mind. As it is cheaper than New York. When we moved here from New York, we're like, wow. That's what I feel like. But now that I've been here for three years, I'm like, because now I'm looking at, we've been trying to buy house. We started actively, like looking and putting offers in in January. And the COVID definitely stopped our plans. But I think it was for the best because we kept losing these offers in everything we're, you know, every house that we would make a bid on or offer on, there was like a huge part of me

that was like, oh, God, this is overpriced. This house needs 100 to 150 to sometimes 200,000. dollars of renovations like legit some of the homes that we put offers in were like technically level but like like like as you go visit your grandma and like you know in 1990 and if she hasn't updated her house from 1970 that level or 1960 but we're you know these are 650 700,000 homes so like if you could move anywhere where would you want to move well all right. now I really just want to move back to Atlanta. And I finally have my husband on board with that because he's, he's from Colorado. He's never lived down south. I want to be close to my family, but I also want to be in a big city. I love Atlanta. We go, well, before COVID, we'd go at least twice a year. So I really would love to move back there. And if I, you know, if it wasn't there, you know, leave the United States. There's really nowhere else in the U.S. that I'd like really like to live. Where would you go not in the U.S.? Well, Costa Rica. I was up to live in Costa Rica. That's like one of my goals. And I've never been to Portugal, but I've wanted to live there for so long. I've never even visited. My husband's gone a couple of times.

I'm surprised you guys, because you met when you were studying abroad in Spain, right? I'm surprised you didn't pop over to Portugal. I know. Me and my girlfriends, we just never prioritized it. And then the year was over. But he went. That was the first time. He went. And I just, like, that's one of my biggest travel regrets. It's like, why don't we get a Portugal? Duh. But we went everywhere else in Spain. We really, we're like fully trying to immerse ourselves in Spanish and we traveled. We only left the country like three times. We went to Morocco.

We went to, I went to Germany and I went to London to visit friends. But other than that, we stayed in Spain because we're like, solo Spanish. Not a must. Are you fluent? No, no mass. You and your husband could speak it together. It's like your language of love because you met there. That's true.

That's you right though about that. But we don't. Fair enough. Unless we're like in a Spanish-speaking country, you know, we have to. And like someone else is around and they're only speaking Spanish. Right. Absolutely. Like you have no other option other than to do it.

You have to give yourself no other option. I mean a book about habits and it's like sometimes the best way to form a habit is to get rid of any other option to do anything else. So true. Yeah. That's true. Sure. So you talk about your mom in almost every single interview that I've read with you. And she's clearly had this incredible impact on your life. And I think that's wonderful, obviously. But you also have talked about how you guys have really different political views and you disagree on some fundamental, like, ideological issues. And I'm really curious because we live in such a divided country right now. And there seems to be this pervasive attitude on the internet. Like if you don't agree with somebody, you can't talk to them. You can't have a conversation, whatever. And I'm curious how you've navigated that relationship,

since it's the person you're one of the people you're closest to in the world. Yeah, the person, one of the people I love the most, probably the only person next to my daughter. I'm extremely, you know, close with my mom and I love my mom so much. But she and I have never had the same. As long as I've had my own political views, they have differed from my mother's. And we've argued about it. And when I was younger and I was more, you know, like argumentative. such it was so hard for me to talk to her because it was like I did have that feeling like we just like

different these different values and her she was like these terrible ideas and like we can't we can't even get along but as I've gotten older like I still I we really yes we still argue we're having a text argument right now like not in the second but like this week is like a long text more argument and yeah I mean it I think it's helpful to have people in your life who have differing views. I think it's actually, I don't like that that there is this attitude. For example, Trump, then I'm not going to speak to you. You're a bad person. We have nothing in common. Get out of my faith. Because I think having that attitude as righteous and as right as you think you are, I think ending the conversation is really dangerous because having the conversation,

I'm learning constantly from my mom and she's learning from me. We're constantly having conversations about things we don't agree with and, you know, in a lot of ways, becoming more open-minded. I don't think my mom is so unique in this. For example, my mom is a Republican, but she has a lot of views that you wouldn't expect a Republican to carry. For example, I remember when a gay marriage was on the ballot, you know, and it was like gay people shouldn't get married or they should. My mom has always been completely supportive of gay marriage. But, you know, she's a Republican at the same time. So there's that contradiction within her. And I don't know that many Republicans. And I don't know that many people who have, you know, these wildly different

views from me. But at least from knowing my mother and also a lot of other parents from the key, yeah, I grew up in the suburbs. So a lot of other people in the suburbs that I grew up with in their parents, the contradictions within their, you know, whatever political views are pretty broad. And I think when you're able to have a conversation with someone and really get to, you know, understand like, okay, sure, you do, you are, you say you're Republican because you support the economy. But at the same time, like from her mother, she cleans homes and everybody who works for her is always an immigrant. And she's very supportive of those people having rights and, you know, citizenship and the rest, right? But at the same time, she prioritizes the economy over that.

And also, it is extremely important, I believe, to recognize that you get your information as for me, I'm a little. I'm, you know, as well I'm a leftist. I'm pretty radical. I'm far more radical, I think, than a lot of just Democrats, right? But I get my information and my news from certain sources. And I don't even hear a lot of the information that she hears and vice versa. So I say, Mommy, did you hear such and says thing happen? No, I didn't know about that.

They didn't talk about that word. She listened like talk radio. And I think if you're able to have conversations with people who have different views from you, you're able to also get out of your little echo chamber of what's right and what's going on in the world. And I think that's really helpful. And I think it can make us all more open-minded. And, yeah, shutting down the conversation, I think, is the first no-no when it comes to evolving. And there's so many issues.

that are sort of like that these days. There's political stuff. Even the pandemic has, you know, do you wear a mask or do you not? And then veganism, I think, in dietary preferences, has that as well. So do you have any tips for not getting really angry when you're trying to have these conversations with people who do have different ideologies than you? Yes. And I think I did learn this from my mother of all people.

But in my family in general, it's to have humility and understand that you don't have all the information and you don't know everything. It is so often that, you know, for example, with COVID right now, you feel like, oh, you should definitely do this. This is the way to combat this pandemic, yada, yada, yada, and then give it five years. And we're going to learn that so much of what we thought was right was absolutely wrong and caused all these issues. But we're not going to let these go right now, right? But understand that you don't have all the information and it's going to change and we're going to find out the truth later. We need hindsight.

And, yeah, I think, like, fundamentally start with the, start with humility, you know. Like, Kendri Lamas said, be humble. Like, bottom line. Yeah, I mean, I think knowing how much we don't know is a great way to start in almost any part of our lives. Has your relationship with your mom changed it all since you became a mom yourself? I think so. We've definitely, first off, I can relate to her.

so much more, like way so much more. And, you know, speaking about politics and like differing ideas, you know, so much of how we decide on, you know, our political views is based in fear. And I think as a mother now, I can see where, you know, my mom and my grandmother has a lot of fear, like how the fear from having a child and wanting the best for me and wanting me to be safe and all these things has influenced how they view the world. And for me, like, I try my best to be self-aware and to not let fear drive my decisions and to be, you know, open and constantly questioning why am I thinking in certain ways. But, like, definitely I can relate with them a lot more.

And I know, of course, fear is still driving my life in some ways. But I have a lot more empathy and compassion for. all mothers, you know, and other people too, but especially mothers because you know they're, even if you hate what they're doing, they more than likely are doing it because they think it's best for their child. Yeah, that's 100% true. I've, even just growing up, I've had like getting older, I've had more empathy for my mom and how hard it is to carry a part of yourself outside of your body. I've also been thinking a lot about motherhood recently. I just did a podcast episode called the pros and cons of motherhood.

Because I'm trying to decide if I want to have a kid. It's a big decision. But I'm curious what you think are the pros and cons of motherhood so far. And you're one and half. Pregnancy, I would say, is part of the journey, though, too. So I'd say over two years of motherhood. God, you're so right about that. I really, I knew that I wanted to have a kid from, like, probably the last 90, 10 years.

since I mean I was like 25 maybe but actually I'm not 35 though so since I was in my 20s right I knew that I wanted to have a kid but then as far as like now that I am a mom okay let me try to be let me try to like really think about how I feel about this because I don't just say like parent no problems it is extremely challenging sure and especially early on this few first months like the first three months, the fourth trimester, extremely difficult. And now it's hard to, like, trying to juggle like working from home, being a full-time, you know, having a full-time job and being a mom full-time, which is another full-time job. It's just a challenge. But, you know, honestly, my life is a lot better now. Like, of course, it's not better. Like, I don't have more of anything else, but I have

more like love and just like contentment and satisfaction and I laugh a lot more. There's like like joy. I have way more joy in my life now. I think it's worth it. I mean, I don't have a teenager yet. When she becomes a teenager, then I might be a different scenario. But like now at this age, it's like definitely, it's wonderful. Did you like being pregnant?

I did. Not the first three months. So I had the first three. most of pregnancy, you were also very difficult at just like terrible morning sickness. But after that, it was smooth sailing. All right. All right. It's a good vote of confidence. Okay, I want to switch gears for a little bit and talk about you as a business woman. And I now even talking about your parents, I feel like I'm getting more of a sense of like this entrepreneurial, ambitious spirit that is very much in your family. But I know you, you were working in a vegan restaurant

and you were like, veganism is cool. And then you started doing private chefing. And I was listening to an interview where you were talking about, like, essentially having the realization that if you wanted a private chef for fancy rich people, you should like go to where fancy rich people were and put yourself in their way and talk about your services. And I just feel like so many people want to start their own business, want to start working for themselves. And they don't know where to begin with those really concrete step, something like that.

Like, oh, I'll go to the fancy. yoga studio and ask if I can set up there. So how did you even know where to start or how to begin to put those pieces together? How did I know? It might have kind of, it might have just been a little bit intuitive. Like, I was working in the Upper West Side. So, you know, surrounded by fancy rich folks anyway. I was like, these are my clientele. I know where they are. I know where to find them. But I don't know. I think it might have been a little bit intuitive. But I also, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think back. I did the Institute for Integrative Nutrition Program,

and they have a lot of business stuff that comes along with the program. And I'm wondering, I might have learned some of it from that program. I can't remember. But it is. It is just like bottom line for a business sense in marketing yourself to know who your audience is, first and foremost, and then find out where are they? How can you reach them? So whether you're a blogger or you sell a product or you're a chef or,

dog walk or whatever. You have to know specifically who is your clientele. Who do you want to be your person who's going to pay you whatever? And then just backtrack and see where they shop and where they spend their time. And yeah. Did you think IAN was worth it? And do you think those types of like, I always debate how much money you should spend on your business before you start your business before you're making any money with it, you know? Good point. Yeah. I loved I AIN especially just because, I like the community of it. I think I did the second round after they went to online. It wasn't the very first online program.

I think it was the second. But at the same time, maybe because I lived in New York, there was a lot of community. We were constantly meeting up and having like study session. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, doing each other's health histories and such. And it was like a tight knit. One of my best girlfriends, she and I, I don't know if they still do. But back then they paired you up with an advisor who had done the,

program and they kind of help you with your business and any questions and such. And she and I had the same advisor. And so the advisor said, oh, you're both in New York. You should meet up. And we became best friends. So that was amazing. And as far as like I really, as far as learning about nutrition and such, the reason I did I in was because I was starting this personal chef company and I did not have the money to go to culinary school. And I also didn't think it's worth it. So I say, okay, if I'm going to invest some money and I want to have a deeper understanding of nutrition before I'm cooking for people, let me do something that's like, I think it was, I don't remember how much, maybe $2,000 versus whatever, 50.

Tens of thousands of dollars for culinary school, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it definitely gave me what I needed and it definitely gave me the confidence that I was looking for before I really got started with my private chefing. It was nice to, of course, nobody cares. Like my clients really don't care if I've gone to culinary school or I am, but for me, it was like, I have this behind me. I know what I'm talking about. People ask me questions. I feel like I can answer them or point them in the right direction. And then the business part I love, too,

because it was like, you know, very fundamental, but very helpful. And again, gave me the confidence that I think I needed. So, yeah, I liked it. I know a lot of people don't, though, but I did. Do you think that, like, would you recommend to people that it's worth sinking a few thousand dollars and to themselves as a business person or anything like that before they start a business or no. Depends on the person. Depends on how. Because some people, I think you need to know how serious you are before you spend a penny. So you got to be really honest with yourself.

For me, yes, it was perfect. I also, after I in, I went on to do all sorts of other business courses with, you know, business coaches and programs and such. I spent all sorts of money. I remember I did a program called Holistic MBA and it's like specific business for people who work in like health coaching and such. And I had, I think I had like, I don't remember how much I had in the bank, but I remember I spent, I kind of for this like year long program and I spent like 90% of what I had in the bank. But I did this knowing for a fact with utmost confidence that there was a worthy, worthwhile investment. Now, if I had had any question in my mind or any doubt in myself, I wouldn't have done it. honestly. I feel like I can get on board at least at this point in my own business that

I'm worth it. But I'm like there's so many coaches out there. How do you know which ones of those are worth it? Yeah, because I had fallen in love with them basically. They were just so inspiring and their businesses were just doing great. Like there's a thing. There's a little bit of multi-level marketing when it comes into coaching. Right. And so it's very important to, of course, know that first and foremost. And it's even worse nowadays because it's like grown. This is, I'm talking, what we're talking about, this is like 2012. 2020 is, I'm sure, a different story.

Like, every time I go into Facebook, there's like a million ads for different coaches who will teach you how to be a coach. Right. That's what I think is scary about it is like they're not necessarily teaching you how to run your business in your own category. They're teaching you how to coach because that's how they make their money. Right. And then you need to coach other people to,

become coaches. That sounds like pyramids game to me. So this wasn't like this. This is very much like your chef, whatever. There was specific categories and it was just like helping. It's just business sense for if you wanted to do something in the holistic field. So in the program, there were women who, I was private chefing and doing online vegan coaching programs. There were people who were massage therapists or some women who had their own product lines. A lot of people came from IIN. People who were doing like all sorts of guests up with children, a few different men who are targeting men with like these weight loss programs. There was nobody who was trying to teach other people the business of teaching other people the business. You know what I mean? That's a good red flag

for me. Yeah. Are there any like mistakes that you feel like you made early in your business that if somebody was just starting a business now, you'd be like, don't do that. And is there anything that you would like wish you learned earlier and you wish you could go back to your former self and be like, this was it. You should have done this. This is really helpful. I'd say organization. Find organization early on with your business and, you know, bookkeeping and those things and track your finances. I feel like you're speaking to me directly now. Yeah. Both of us. No, because, you know, like I said, I'm good with money and I know how much is coming in. Here's the thing for different reasons. I know how much is coming in and I have a tendency to not spend.

However, it's very important to know how much is coming in and understand how spending can be a worthy investment and helping make more money, hiring, bringing people on, understanding that you are making money, for example, and you should bring somebody on right now because they can lighten your load and you can have more bandwidth to do X, Y, and Z. That's always been my challenge. And because, you know, I just, it's just me and my husband helps me too. And I've only hired one person in this. I mean, I do have a manager and she's incredibly helpful. But as far as like hiring like on a payroll situation, I've only hired one person. And that was just lessening a year ago. She's not working with me anymore.

But I think I would have grown more if I had it in me to be a manager, for example, to be able to better manage people and be organized and know that this is how I need you to help me. Because look, I can hire somebody today. They get here and I'm like, I don't know what I need you to do. I do everything on my own and I don't have any idea of what it is. Yeah. It's the like control element. I look at my job and I'm like, I don't know what you could do of my job because my job is me, you know?

Exactly. Exactly. And sometimes it's just enough. You don't need anyone else. But I know for me, it definitely is something that I struggle with today, even knowing, knowing for a fact that I need help. but not having not knowing like how to do that and so the organization with your money you need to have that but also just like again knowing what it is that you need help with and being organized in your day to day so that when you do bring somebody one if you do you know exactly what you're

handing to them and being able to let go of control too because like you're just saying that is my struggle like i do everything pretty much by myself still and it is hard but i'm afraid to let somebody else help me. It's probably like a good lesson for life in general outside of just a business. Exactly. And now they have a baby, it's like, girl, you need help. I don't have a babysitter. I never had a babysitter. Well, and now you have an excuse since you're like not supposed to bring other people into your house. Thank you. Thank you. So you're good. We're good to go for a little bit at least. One of my favorite parts of your business is that you have gotten probably tens of thousands of people excited about vegetables who previously weren't excited about vegetables. I think you do

wonderful work just being like these are the flavors that you can impart in vegetables. So I would love to talk about vegetables for a little bit because I think a lot of people are under the false assumption that vegetables can't taste good. Right. So when did you always know the vegetables could taste good? No, definitely not. How did you learn that? So I learned that from the way I happened was I was I was extremely picky all my life.

I'm still kind of picky. Especially now I have a child and I'm like, ooh, I'm pickyer. than her. I'm a super picky eater. I think a lot of people who become recipe developers start as picky eat because I was just trying to develop food I wanted to eat because I couldn't find it elsewhere. Same. That's exactly how I started liking vegetables because I'm like, girl, you don't eat any vegetables. Here you are. I eat in a whole, you know, sit down on the sofa, eat a whole bag of whatever cookies. And I felt so guilty doing that. And then I'm like, okay, I love to eat. There's no way I'm not going to eat. I went to school for acting. and just like a lot of like there's a dieting culture and all that stuff. And I'm like, I don't diet.

But I do want to look my best and yada yada yada, not that being thin looks your best, but you know, that was my thinking back then. But I am not going to diet. I'm not going to starve myself. What am I going to do? Oh, how about if I eat vegetables? My mother, she is a very healthy eater and has always been my whole life. And I would not eat any of the food.

She'd eat salad. The only thing that we actually really like together was fruit. But everything else, yogurt, salad. None of that. But she always said, Jeanne, if you eat healthy, if you eat fruits and vegetables, you can eat as much as you want,

and you'll be healthy. You never have to the doctor. You have so much energy like me. You see how I run eight miles of a day? That's because I eat just fruits and vegetables. And I'm like, oh, whatever. But really, when I came, when I had, you know, I was going to college. I was in college and I had this question in my mind, how am I going to, like, feel my best?

And I'm like, oh, my mom did say, but I hate vegetables. But so I just realized maybe if I prepare them in a way that I think tastes good, then I'll eat them. And that's what happened. And that's how I got on this entire journey, just trying to make vegetables that I like to eat. I'm so excited to introduce you to today's sponsor, Atoka herbal blends. They have two types of drinks, herbal shots and herbal tonics, and they have amazing ingredients. They're 100% plant-based and non-GMO. More importantly, they are super functional. Every single ingredient serves a purpose. There are three types, calm, balance, and well. The calm blend has a mix of chamomile, hops, and dark cherry.

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but I think he just loves the flavor. Because I don't drink caffeine. I like to drink the herbal shots, which I either have on their own. They just shoot them back. They're really tasty. Or I add them to sparkling water to make a delicious healing, fizzy drink. You can get 25% off your first order using the code

Atoka Liz 25 at atoka Wellness.com. Again, that's code A-T-O-K-A-L-I-Z-25 at atatokaweilness.com. I hope you love these. As a non-soda drinker, I am always on the lookout for fun drinks that actually have health benefits, and these definitely hit the spot. Now, let's get back to the episode. So do you have any secrets for somebody who's like, let's say you're just looking at broccoli. How would you make broccoli taste amazing? What's like one or two ways you can make broccoli

taste amazing? Well, I like simple preparations, especially now that I've been eating veggies for so long, but roast it. Like, that's amazing. It tastes delicious. Toss it with some oil, put some sea salt on. If you want to make a little cheesy, put nutritional yeast on it and roast it. It tastes amazing. Same with, like, most vegetables. Roasting is just like, you know, the bees and ease for anything. But before then, if you need to cover it a little bit more, you can do like, same with cauliflower. You can deep fry it. Or now, you know, we have air fryers. So you can do a lot of the same thing with air fries.

You'd be like, you could do like cum-powo cauliflower or cum pal broccoli when you coat it in the breading and then you dip it. You have it in a sauce and it's super delicious. And it just kind of reminds you of like cum-pout chicken. So yeah, you can use broccoli in the same way that you would. chicken. Bottom line, just any way you want to eat chicken, do it with broccoli and you'll probably like it. Are there any, like, ways that you make vegetable-filled food easier? Like, I think, I'm trying to think of the obstacles. People have to eating veggies. Like, one is you buy them and they go bad really quickly. Yes. Another one is that I think that people are under the assumption they can

take more time to prepare. So, like, how do you overcome those obstacles? Well, I do, like, come back to roasting. Like if you toss anything with oil and salt and sticking in the oven, it's easy. You hardly have to do anything and it tastes amazing. And so I definitely recommend that. And I also highly recommend just paying attention to how much time you are taking with the other food. I have this conversation with my sister-in-law a couple weeks ago. She said, I wouldn't eat my vegan food, but the preparation, it takes so long.

And I say, okay, tell me what you're eating. That's not vegan. I'll usually put a piece of fish like in the oven with some lemon and salt. That's okay. You just eat fish for dinner? Like you don't eat no rice. You don't eat no vegetables with that. Like just fish and that's enough.

No, I usually cook some rice and I'll cook some vegetables. Okay. So you're already cooking vegetables, run. You can continue doing the same. You're already cooking rice. Continue doing the same. However you make it, that's fine. You need to replace the fish, which is like a high protein thing.

Okay, now that is the only thing you need to change in the equation. You don't have to change anything else. But people need to be honest with like, really, how much time am I thinking in the kitchen? How much prep am I already doing? What do I really need to switch? People always say, I don't eat vegan food. But then I ask them what they eat. They're like, I eat chicken, I eat fish, I eat burgers.

What comes with the chicken fish and the burgers? I know you don't eat just that. And then they say, okay, well, with it, I eat the rice, I eat the pasta, I eat broccoli, asparagus, da-da-da-da. So you're only switching out the animal protein. And when it comes to that, there are a lot of alternatives that don't take a lot of time. My favorite thing to recommend to people is eat more mushrooms, especially the meteor, more flavorful mushrooms that even have more of the medicinal qualities, hardier ones like my tocki,

Shitaki, oyster mushrooms, even portobella even, which is like so common. You can find that anywhere. And they require so little prep. You don't even have to cut them up. You can literally prepare them the same way you would, a piece of fish or a piece of chicken. So the same seasonings in the oven or on the grill or whatever, pansy or whatever. And then you can continue just like I said. You don't eat it with rice anyway.

You eat it with broccoli or whatever anyway. Also people definitely eating more beans and lentils, I think, is important. And they are extremely easy to prepare and they're great protein source. And you also have more fiber with them. So you're going to stay fuller for longer. And fiber is one of those things that people do not get enough of people who are so worried about am I getting enough protein? Yes, you are, but you're not getting enough fiber.

So that is something that the conversation will be nice if it were to switch. It would be more around how can I get my fiber versus how can I get protein. Yeah, I interviewed a gut health doctor, a famous gastroenterologist, and he is all about fiber and just how can we pack. He says it's the best thing you can do for your gut health. It's obviously filled with prebiotics. It's so good for your microbiome and all of that. But to the protein question, I mean, it has to be the most common question you get as a vegan.

What's your sort of answer to the, how do you get your protein? How do you get enough protein? Well, you can get protein from most sources of food. But the most important thing you should do is vegan is eat a whole food, plant-based diet, meaning that you're eating very minimally processed foods, things that you recognize as coming out of the ground. And when you're eating foods like that, so broccoli, for example, Even that is a good source of protein. You're eating an abundance of fruits and vegetables, whole grains, beans, legumes, nuts, and seeds.

Then you're easily going to get enough protein without actually having to count protein or having to count macros or even having to count calories. Now, that is great at every stage of life, but you have to understand also that you need to eat enough of it to feel full and to feel nourished and to feel like you're thriving. I know that a lot of people, it seems like for me, the big thing. biggest challenge that people tell me about is that when they're eating vegan, they feel hungry all the time. If you feel hungry all the time, that tells me that you're not eating enough food. There's a lot of diet culture, of course, in our culture, people feeling guilty about eating too much

food, feeling like they need to eat calories, feeling that they need to watch the portions on their plates. But if you're eating a whole food vegan diet, that has to go out of the window. You cannot follow those rules because vegan food, not just vegan food could be all sorts of stuff, whole foods, just like fruits and vegetables, plant matter, has less calories, has a lot less fat than animal products. And you can eat more of it. It also has a lot more fiber, too. So it can even fill you up more quickly. And you can't count calorie. It'll throw you off. You can't count portions especially. Well, that's like, I think a lot of people almost use veganism or other types of any sort of ism diets as a gateway to eating disorders or disorder. Definitely.

eating and is there anything you do with your audience to help make sure that that doesn't happen? Because that's the thing that scares me the most is when people use health food as an excuse to just get skinny and then view their body in a way that I don't feel good about at all. Yeah. No, that is extremely common. But no, I don't. I think for a lot of my, at least the vocal audience, that is, there might be, it might have opposite of that. So I get far more common There are questions about how do I gain weight as a vegan than I do. How do I lose weight? I think it has a lot to do with my demographic and the fact that I'm black because black women,

I don't know like numbers or such, but definitely we are, we don't want like losing weight. Being skinny is not a strong part of our culture. It's often the opposite. It's not like idealized as much as the ideal body, right? No, no. The ideal body in my culture is larger. You know, it's like you want to be curvy. You want to have like a little meat on your bones.

So no, I get the opposite question, which is harder to answer, of course, because it is a lot of people do become vegan so they can lose weight. And if you're becoming vegan to lose weight because you have a health condition, you know, especially a lot of older people, you know, their doctor says, you need to lose weight. It's too much on your heart. You have high blood pressure. you have diabetes, you need to lose weight, go vegan. It's easy. Well, it's not just easy, but it is an easy way to help lower your risk of heart disease and diabetes and to lose weight and to support the body that it's less likely to get those

diseases. So that's one thing. And people do come to me for that. But as far as like just losing weight to like look skinny, no, that's not really much in the audience. What about other wellness stuff that you do? Like I know that you don't drink coffee, which I'm so interested in because I also don't drink coffee. And I'm like the only person I've ever met and everybody else thinks I'm insane.

I know. So I'm curious, first of all, why don't you drink coffee? I love coffee. And honestly, I haven't had coffee. I will have like one coffee maybe like every six months. However, I'm addicted. Like I haven't had, I can't even tell you the last time I had coffee. I don't remember.

But I am still addicted. Like if I walk by a coffee shop and I smell the roasting beans, I'm like, you know, oh my God, don't go in there. Don't go in there. Keep walking. Keep walking. Keep walking. Or if I'm in a coffee shop and, you know, like, order the tea. Order the tea. Don't get the coffee. Don't even get the decap coffee. It's an addiction. And I don't like being addicted to anything. I don't like how, I don't know, maybe in a few years after. I haven't had, I gave up coffee when I was pregnant because I realized I wanted to lower my stress levels during pregnancy. And I realized that very early on, luckily, that coffee was increasing my anxiety, especially in the mornings.

I would have a cup of coffee. And then shortly after that, I would start feeling the anxiety in my stomach, butterflies in my stomach. And I just talked it up to like, I'm a stressed out person. I'm so busy. But, you know, there is a lot of talk of giving caffeine and specifically coffee up when you're pregnant. So I gave it up because some people said, you just shouldn't drink it when you're pregnant. And it's like right away when I gave it up, I realized, oh my gosh, those butterflies I got. That anxiety was gone.

That was coffee. That wasn't just I'm busy. It was literally the coffee. And so I just never reintroduced it into my life. Also, my daughter, by the way, is crazy. She has so much energy. I'm paranoid of her having any coffee, or yes, any coffee through my breast milk because I'm still breastfeeding. So I do matcha.

I do do matcha. Yeah, I's going to ask if you did anything else for energy. Is macha your main go-to? That's my only go-to, yeah. And I'll have one a day in the morning when I wake up. And if I need any more energy after that, I have to. You just need to take a nap, basically. I think that's such, it's such an obvious solution.

Like if I'm tired, maybe I should take a nap. But it's so far from people's mind. You know, they're like, oh, I'm tired into like what supplement and what drink and whatever. And it's like, maybe I'm tired. I'm just tired. You're just tired because we feel like we have to keep going, going, going, doing, doing, and that can be very bad for your health. Like, as healthy as we want to be, we totally downplay the importance of rest.

Like, you know, it's just, it is, I believe it is the most, it is not the most, but one of the most crucial aspects of health is to have good sleep and to, you know, reduce stress as much as possible. And we need a nap in the middle of day to take naps. It's really, I have a new sofa. Oh my gosh. It is making a nap life so much easier because I was, since we moved into this new house, I've been like trying to get everything perfect.

I'm like working a lot. And I've been neglecting my naps. This new sofa over here, look, no need to, like, you don't have to convince me to take a nap. You mentioned anxiety and I'd be remiss not to address it because this isn't an anxiety podcast, but everybody listening knows that that's like my biggest health issue that I struggle with. And so whenever anybody says that my ears prick up and I'm like, have you struggled with anxiety? And if so, tell me about it and tell me what you did, please. Yes.

And yeah. I mean, I still continue to struggle with anxiety. I think for people, very ambitious people, especially, Tai Bay people, it might just be a fact of, I don't know about for everyone. But for me, I do think it's, it comes with the territory of being this ambitious. and constantly like what I gotta keep going, how to keep doing, you know? And I don't think I'm able to like not be the type of person I am and to not keep striving and keep adding more to my plate

and to keep worrying about. Because part of the, like I said before, part of the reason I do so much is honestly a fear and anxiety that I will not have it tomorrow. So I feel like I have to keep putting in on my plates. And so for me, you know, like I always sell people health is wealth. I truly firmly believe that, but when you talk about health, it is also mental health.

I definitely try to prioritize things that will help me to reduce my anxiety. And like I said, also before, that's why it's important for me to know how much money I'm making and to look at even my analytics to be able to have some like a truthful conversation. Because I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't have enough money. Yada, yada, yada. We can't afford this. Whereas if I can just look at the numbers, okay, I can feel good about this. We can't afford it.

I don't have to have like this fake, you know, nonsense dialogue in my head. And as far as like therapy also very important, I do not go to therapy right now. And I feel like I should. And I feel like, you know, that's like, oh, my list of things to do. But I have historically, you know, since I was in 17 years old. Yeah. So I definitely think that's important too. I was talking to a doctor and she said that she feels like there's a stigma in the black community around therapy.

Did you feel like that? And did you feel like you had to overcome that at all to be comfortable going to there? She was like, I was just not to go to church when I was a kid if I had any issues, you know? Yeah. I mean, the funny thing is my family, it is a stigma. And they would probably say, no, it's not. But my family, when I was a teenager and I was suffering from depression when I first started, they were, right away, you have to go to see a therapist.

Like, no question. Maybe I don't know what their dialogue was without me present, but it was like, that's what you do. But at the same time, they never went for themselves. They never modeled that that was a way that you know with your problem. The way they modeled was drinking alcohol. And, yeah, basically that. Like, both of my parents drink a lot. And they're not like, I don't know.

maybe I don't want to call them alcohol. I don't know what they would call themselves, but they drink a lot. And it was taught to me that that is a way that you deal with, your anxiety and your stress. Every night you should have a drink. And then you party like on the weekend. But then they wanted me to go to a therapist. And I'm like, okay. And so I started going and I do value it.

And I did grow up in majority white suburb. And I did see and hear about other people going to therapy. And then I went to college at Boston University with a lot. of wealthy white people. And I, by the way, I studied acting. And so therapy was like, like a cool thing to do. Like, of course you have a therapist. Yeah. If you don't, like, what is wrong with you? So yeah, I've definitely had like both inputs in my life of, you know, like the mainstream, even, I don't even know if that's mainstream. Like just like wealthy people in my life who definitely, you know, take it seriously to go to therapy. And then my family sending me to

therapist and never, ever, ever, ever going themselves. And even like, like our own like family issues, you know, them complaining about them and saying that so-and-so needs to see a therapist, but that so-and-so never goes and has never been. And then like, I'm like, but you also have issues and you're not going. So how do you yourself somebody else to go? You know? Yeah.

And we were not religious. We weren't religious. So I don't have this same, you know, background on this, that therapist you're talking about. because it wasn't like you just pray on it. But, you know, around me, even though I grew up in a white suburb, all my friends and all my friends are black and all my close friends are black and their families are black. And they were all religious.

I did also hear that from them. I had a lot of nice messages around therapy, basically. Do you drink now? What's your relationship with alcohol now? I do. And I try not to drink too much, but like especially COVID, like, yo, I got. I'm like working with this wine brand and they sent me two shipments of wine and I go to Trader Joe's. I haven't been in like many months because I got the shipments of wine.

But since COVID started, I'm like I'm drinking at least every three days usually. I'll have like a glass of wine. There was a period after. It was the first like month when we were just starting to shelter in place and we were in a 500 square foot New York apartment. And there was one day I woke up and I realized I'd had a drink at least a drink every. single night for an entire month. And I was like depressed and anxious and scared. And the drink was like my light at the end of the tunnel for getting through every day. And I had to fully reevaluate because I'd never viewed alcohol in that way where it is your reward for getting through the day.

And I was like, eh, this is not ideal. I think it's like the addictive quality, like how I don't like being addicted to coffee. And also my parents needing that, you know, every day. My mom, she says she doesn't drink during the week. So, but at the same time, I don't like say, you shouldn't drink every day. Like, for some people, it is what really works. And it's the only thing that works. And like, my parents, they both drink and they're both highly functioning, you know, citizens. And they're great. They're not like violent or, or anything, anything close to that. But I know, like, for me, and I just have, like, a different way of approaching my life. I like to, like, I've been doing yoga, for example for like 13 years now and like yoga is it's all aspects of my life but it you know as far as

like getting through the day and it's like it's like a more active and more rewarding and more it's a more supportive tool for me than alcohol so i'll do yoga nidra instead of having a glass of wine if i really feel like i need something i love that are there any other sort of like weird wellnessy stuff that you do yoga nita just yoga in general. I used to be a little bit more into meditation, but I haven't since my daughter was born. I will say, you know,

especially if there are any pregnant women listening or, you know, if you're going to be pregnant, I highly, when I was pregnant, I started doing hypno birthing. So hypno birthing is, it's an actual, it's not just like, you don't just do it when you're in labor and giving birth, but it's basically a meditative hypnosis practice

that you have to develop just like you would hear, yoga practice or any other meditation practice over the course of many months. And then when you're in labor, that's when you utilize it the most, right? Because you got to be like 100% in it. And that was so awesome. I'm so like, I don't know. I had my child, my baby at home. And I was in labor for 37 hours. And it was sick like the whole time. I was throwing up like legit. Not the whole time, but until there is literally nothing in my system except my baby. I was doing it.

Okay. Like, yeah. This is why I'm afraid to have a baby. Yes. But if you have a like really, I had a very, very strong meditation and hypnoborthing practice that I had been developing for

months. Like all, you're doing breathwork, you're doing meditation, you're doing self-hypnosis, you're doing visualizations, affirmations, and I was doing yoga, of course, the whole time, and you're even doing, I don't know what you call it, but it's like when you're pushing yourself to the edge, for example, it's one thing, you put your arms out and you kind of circle your arm.

It's like, oh, I've done that in yoga. And it like, it's you, like, all you want to do is put your arms down, but you're in the class and the teacher will call you out if you put your arms down and it's horrifically painful. Horrifically painful, but you can't stop. And I would do that, like, all these, like, painful things that would, like, help you. learn how to breathe through pain. And it really paid off. I don't think I could have, if I were in the hospital, I'm so glad I didn't have a baby in hospital because they would have been like, girl, you've been laboring for far too long. Like, we've got to get this baby out. So that was great. I was at home because obviously it took a long time for the baby to come out. But also, it would not

have work had it not been for that practice that I had spent probably four or five months on developing before I went into labor. It's so interesting. I never even thought of about what would be like the practical applications of doing like an arm workout like that or like pushing yourself to the edge of what your body's capable of so that you practice getting to that place with your body. Breathe through it and continue to just be okay with it. And of course, when you're in labor, the thing is when you're in labor, physically, physically, physically, physically, physically, physically, physically,

like, physically, hormonally, doing everything, you're not the same person as you are right now. Your body takes over your mind. It takes over everything. It's not like, oh, I, you know, I don't want to. The depictions of women in labor in the media and in movies is totally, like, I'm sure some women labor that way, but it is not representative of at least most women in the world. And I think a lot of women see those images and go into labor with not having any other support and understanding that labor can be anything but what you saw on TV.

and basically do those same things, just screaming, pushing, feeling ultimate pain. Also, by the way, if you were in the hospital, like I was speaking to a friend, yes, two days ago, and she was telling me, you know, she has a new baby too, and when she was giving birth, it was all this horror story,

thing, up, thing, up, thing, up, thing, and then they put her in ketocin, and then they needed to give her epidural, and, like, it was incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, painful. And that's why I avoided the hospital because I was afraid of going to the hospital and them taking over and giving me these drugs

that would make the pain worse and interfere with my body's natural ability to handle the pain. But the hospital for me was like emergency scenario. It's an emergency taking to the hospital. But if it weren't emergency, I didn't want to because I was afraid I just wanted my body to be able to do what it does and prepared myself mentally, emotionally, physically to be able to ride all those waves. And it was incredibly difficult, of course, but I think it was only, I was only able to do it because, like I said, all that other stuff that I'd done before. It was, oof, oof. It was not easy. When you look back on it, is it like, that was a good day in my life because.

Three days. Are you like, that was a good three days of my life? Are you like, that was, like, do you look back and you're like, oh, wow, that's, like, so painful? No, I think it was, I look back and I'm like, wow, that was awesome. That was like, yeah, it's like nothing. No, no, no, it was surreal. It was a surreal experience, the whole thing. It was really two days because I went into labor in the middle of Monday morning, but it was surreal.

The only thing that I really didn't like was the fact that I was throwing up in, like, diarrhea. That was part that I didn't like. The waves, like the contractions and things, that was like, I can barely even, like, not enjoy them. but I could barely even like comprehend them because I was like throwing it up and on the toilet the whole time for like at least the first like 18 hours in my midwife was like janei this is normal for some women you don't have a fever you don't like literally nothing is wrong with you your body is just like your body just wants all like everything out before this baby is born that's so interesting literally once everything's out then the baby can come out for you because some women you know when they give birthday you know graphic but this is life when you're They give birth. They also have a bowel movement because all the pushing and, you know, you're ejecting. I guess my body was like, no poo-poo's on the bed because you let's get it out early, early, early, so yeah, but I did not like that one bit. That was the only thing I didn't like the actual labor and

stuff. I'm like, oh, okay, I could do this. But the being like, oh, throwing up. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. When I asked you on Instagram recently how you were feeling in life generally, so many of you replied that you were stressed, which I definitely get there is a lot going on right now. I wanted to take the time to share a few of my favorite stress relieving supplements with you. I love Garden of Life's Whole Food magnesium chelate, which is non-GMO, vegan, gluten-free, organic, all the good stuff. It's great for keeping your gut healthy, which is an important part of managing stress. But magnesium also just melts away tension in the body.

Seriously, try sipping a glass and you will notice a huge difference. The Garden of Life one comes in raspberry lemon and orange, and the orange tastes like a creamsicle, which is crazy and so delicious. Garden of Life also makes my favorite, favorite, favorite probiotic, the mood plus one, which is the one that comes in a purple bottle. It's a great general probiotic. It's great for supporting your gut health, which again is so important for stress management, and it's also great for supporting your immune system, but it has specific strains selected

to help with anxiety, in addition to Ashwaganda, which has a ton of studies to back up its stress-relieving properties. I used to take it in the morning, but after, interviewing the gut health MD for my Ask the Doctor gut health edition episode, I actually take it right before bed now, which he says really helps all the bacteria do their best work. You can find Garden of Life products on Amazon or at your local Whole Foods, but the best way to support this podcast is to use my affiliate links, which can be found at Liz Moody.com slash shop or in the description for this episode. I super appreciate it. It doesn't cost you

anything extra. It just tells Garden of Life that you found them through my podcast. I know you are going to love the probiotic. I know you're going to love the magnesium. I know you're going to love the magnesium and I cannot wait to hear what you think. Now, let's get back to the episode. I'm trying to be conscious of your time, but I'm going to ask a few reader questions. We got, like, or listener questions, we got a lot, but I'll just limit it to a few. Okay. If your daughter decides not to be vegan, this is from Bali's natural kitchen. If your daughter decides not to be vegan, how would you react? I'd be upset, you know? Yeah. It's not like, you know, my mom, like, I don't have the same political views as my mom. And she doesn't love that I don't, but she's

still loves me and she wishes I thought the same way that she thought and I wish she felt the same way as I thought but I don't and it's okay and I still love her and she still loves me and so yeah with my daughter I think I will be very upset and I will feel like I didn't do not that I didn't do my job because I'm confident that I'll do my job in teaching her why we're vegan and hopefully you know giving her a great understanding of that but of course she has to make if she wants to do something different. She wants to be a rebel. What can I do? I'm going to love her regardless. I'm not cooking for her though, by the way. She's eating meat. No, not my house. That's a fair line to draw. Right? My dad actually, we growing up, I never ate red meat. We did

eat chicken and fish. And my dad, he's very firm with that, you know, like my brother started eating meat, I don't know. And, you know, like, yeah, you can do whatever you want out of the house, but you will never bring that into the house and you will never cook that in the house. Don't expect me to, you know, same with guests. Like, we don't like guests eat meat. So, yeah. That's a fair.

I mean, I think that's, it's your house. And my mother-in-law is a vegetarian and she prepares meat for her family. I mean, she does so many things that are so deeply self-loyal. but like that when she's like handling like a pork loin and she's so appalled by it but she wants to feed everybody else what they want to eat and I'm just like who are you and how do you do this wow right I'm like no you need yourself I know I think she could use to take a page from your book for sure all right Kate Bears said my toddler's so picky suggestions for getting kids particularly to eat more fruits and vegetables okay so my daughter she's gotten picky recently and I mean it's kind of

totally shift with them because it's like today they love blueberries but tomorrow they hate them but one thing at least for now because then steady is for you know most kids like pasta my daughter loves pasta and instead of giving her wheat pasta i use legume pasta so whatever chickpea lentil it doesn't matter because they're you know made from legumes and it's only one ingredient so i give her that instead and i feel you know confident that she's been a pretty pretty private protein from that and I will pair that with vegetables. For my daughter, if it's not chopped, like, extremely finely, but not puree either, because puree, she don't want that either.

It's got to be, like, right in the perfect amount. Chop really finely, she'll eat it. Also, if it's sticky. So I mix avocado in with anything that she doesn't want to eat, pretty much, like, like, she's funny with broccoli now, and she's funny with cauliflower. She's funny with beet. So I chop it extremely small, and then I mix it in with broccoli. avocado, you know, mix that with the pasta or put that on some easy heel bread or rice,

whatever. Girlfriend will eat that. I think she'll eat anything if you mix it with avocado. That's hot tip. Mix it with avocado. And a lot of, most kids like tofu. And so I will also mix food in with, if I, you know, she can't eat avocado every meal. So I'll also mix a lot of vegetables into tofu.

So like this morning we did tofu scramble and I mix veggies veggies veggies in. Or I'll do tofu kishes. And it's just like making, you know, a regular keesh, but you, you know, using cooked tofu instead. Chop your vegetables are really small. If your kid is funny about textures and mix it with tofu and bake it like a keesh. And my girl, she'll tear it up anything. I have a fantasy of, like, telling my kids that, like, broccoli is a treat and that they should be really excited to get broccoli.

Does that work or is that, like, utter bullshit? I mean, I thought it was going to work for my daughter because she loves trees. And she's like, I'm like, look at my mommy eating the tree. Yeah, or like, it's dessert time. You get your broccoli now. Like, does that work or no? Not for my daughter. Okay.

She's not fooled by that. I think it worked for me, though, as a kid because I didn't like broccoli, but I love the idea of it looking like a tree. It does look like. It's so funny. Tate that I never really consider the fact that it looks like a little tree. Yes, it really does. It's so cute.

It's a cute vegetable. All right, and this one's from the majestic Jen, and I'm also very curious about this because I think where we live has a huge. impact on our personalities and our lifestyle. So the majestic Jen asks how your life has changed since you moved from New York City to L.A. And I'm curious beyond that, like, how do you feel like your personality has changed from New York to L.A.? Okay. I don't think so. I, you know, really, truly, I am a Southern girl at heart. When I was in New York and I started telling our neighbors we're moving to Los Angeles, they're like, oh, that'll be great for you.

You seem like a Cali girl, you know, Southern California is great for you. But since I've gotten here, I like living here in L.A., it's super fun and such. But, yeah, it's not as, it's not as friendly as New York. You know, New York, you see all your neighbors. And Max, my husband always called me the mayor because I know all my neighbors. I do here too. But, like, it's just not the same. Have you seen that there's a John Mulaney's sketch where he's like, I walk down the street and my wife says it's like I'm running for the mayor of like nothing or something.

Like he's like, I'm running for the mayor of nowhere because I just wave to everybody. I talk to everybody. And my wife is like, can we just walk down the freaking street? You're right. You're right. Oh, my God. I love it. It's totally me.

That's his wife is Madison because my husband's from like suburbs in Denver and he's like, whatever. But for me, like if you don't wave at the passing cars where I grew up in Georgia, like people are you going to be talked about, right? Like we've got to. Every car passed. Hi. Hi.

All the neighbors high. My mom knows all her neighbors is tight, tight. You know, people are always talking about community and, like, in the United States, there's no community. People don't know their neighbors. Not where I am from, okay, because my family, my mom, she lives, she knows all her neighbors, my dad, you know, me. I just moved here a month ago. I know all my neighbors, like people right here, right there, across the street. But, yeah, I definitely, yeah, I think I'm, I guess that's a southern thing.

In New York, my neighbors, I lived in Harlem and the majority of my neighbors were older, so, you know, 65 and up. And most of them were migrants from the South, or immigrants from the South, really, from they moved during the Great Migration, like in the 60s and 50s to New York. And especially from the part of the South that I'm from, Georgia. And so there was just like a special affinity immediately when I moved in the building and I got to know these people. And some of my still talk to now on text message and on Facebook. And it's just like this whole like when you're from the south, there's definitely this whole like, I don't know, especially. I think it's like white, black doesn't matter. But there is this like southern hospitality thing, like knowing your people and like speaking to everyone.

And in New York there is more of that. And then here in L.A. I think there's a little less of that. And I don't know that. Interesting. I mean, it's more spread out. You're not like crammed together in the same way. Exactly. You're not walking. You're not on a subway. I do, I do know a lot of the neighbors around here because I am walking. Also, I live in a black thing. And I've lived in Harlem, all black. I lived in here in L.A. I've lived last in mid-city. And now we live in Jefferson Park. And majority of my neighbors are black. And I do think there's like something also too, like, you know, a bunch of old black folks in both neighborhoods. How does that for your husband? How does that impact him? Because he's a white man.

Yeah. Look, good for him because he's from Colorado from Denver. Okay. And he grew up knowing very few black people. He had like a few friends in school. And then he's with me from Chocolate City, Atlanta and, you know, super black family, obviously. and always like I feel come I feel most even though I grew up in very diverse suburbs and mostly white though but still pretty diverse suburbs I just like you know yeah I just end up living around black folks a lot and he is he's great he's great at first I think it was weird for him because he had never been around so many black people he tells me the first time he came home with me during Christmas I think it was to visit Atlanta we got off the airplane and got into Hartsfield International Airport.

And he said he'd never seen so many black people. Like everybody's like, everybody worked there with black, like the seas of black people. And he was like, you know, taken back by then. And so, but over the years, he and I've been together for 12 years. No, it's totally normal for him. I think he, I don't think he thinks he's black, but he definitely is like totally 100% normal. I think he's black sometimes.

I don't have the time. I don't even know. I can't remember that he's white. I don't see him as white. You know, people say I don't see color and all that stuff. Well, in our relationship, I don't at all, unless I'm, like, feeling bad because I maybe, like, critique white people, especially now. We're, like, talking about anti-racism.

Yeah, well, I was curious if, like, you, if you're having any sort of different conversations with him with the conversations happening these days and also with the fact that you're also raising a daughter who is going to be probably perceived in the world in a different way than he would have grown up. Oh, yeah. Well, okay, so he and I very, very, very, very political relationship. It could be, it could be more, I'm sure, but like we constantly, the whole time, I love talking about race and blackness and, like, race relations. I love it. I can just, oh, I love it so much. If I were doing what I was doing, what I'm doing now, I think I would love to do something that has to do with race and to like, you know, all in these conversations.

So he and I, we're not having any new conversations nowadays. We're just having more of the same. And we're, like, loving fact that so many other people are also having these conversations, or these conversations, finally. And, you know, anti-blackness is something that other people know about. And Black Lives Matter is, like, trending. And, like, the craziest one, oh, by black. I had, oh, I've learned. I grew up, of course, by Black, you know.

my family is always, I think all black people, you're always like, I want to support black own this, black own that. But the fact that now it's mainstream and it's cool, it's like me being vegan since 2011 and now veganism is mainstream. Now by black is mainstream. That's like amazing and it's so exciting. And so him, he's totally been hearing me, talked about all these things and being black for all these years and we have all these conversations about it. His brother also white, is also married to a black woman. They are way more political. They're both lawyers and they both work with like in social justice.

He's a lawyer that sues the police when like wrongdoing and things. Oh, wow. They just moved here from New York, but he still works for the same law firm in New York. And then she specifically works in policy around criminal, as I call criminal injustice. Yeah. So they're like light years ahead of us. But so in our family, it's constantly talked about. Same with my family growing up, constantly we're talking about race.

And so he had to come into that. But yeah, no new conversations, just a lot of excitement that everybody else seems to also be having these conversations. Is there anything that you feel like is missing in the broader conversations that you're hearing and also particularly in the wellness world conversations around race? Yes. I mean, I'll say for specific two things. broader conversations that irks me so much. And this is everybody. Black people say it all the time.

White folks say it all the time. This idea that, you know, people look at immigrant populations and say, how come Chinese people are able to, you know, they do X, Y, and Z. And black people can't do it. And there's this misunderstanding that people who are immigrants, they are self-selecting. They came here, left their countries, left. their families, left everything that they had behind, with even the understanding that they might not ever return to where they're from, to be in a place that they think is going to be

better for them and their families and have their children here and their children are going to be Americanized. And like, it's a different type of, not that it's like totally different, like, different type of person, like, you know, like that, but it is a self-selecting person. And there are plenty of people in the countries, these people's countries of origins, who will never leave who are, you know, just regular people. And sure, their life might be better somewhere else and knows, but they're not going anywhere. And of course, if you left your country of origin and everything that you had, you're going to come to someplace new and have a whole different perhaps work ethic. You're going to just do things differently. Black people in America, of course,

there are plenty of successful black people. And there's plenty of black people who, you know, I grew up hearing you're not a real black person a lot, which is just like, of course, like, is the most racist, horrible thing. But people have this idea that like black people are lazy and criminal. And if you're not lazy and criminal, but you're black, you're not a real black person. But the thing is black people, just like any other type of person, come in all different shapes and sizes and different, you know, whatever. I think fundamentally, black people shouldn't have to do black people, all 100,000,

percent of black folks in the United States or the world should not have to all be incredibly exceptional people. They shouldn't all have to be the type of people who would leave their home, leave everything they have behind and break all the molds and be able to tear down systemic racism and everything that's standing in their way. Instead, black folks everywhere and I believe everybody too should just be able to live their lives and be who they are without having, you know, somebody stand in their way and kick them around and stop them from just being happy people, you know? Like, you shouldn't have to be exceptional to be worthy.

You should be able to just be a regular person. And people are, I hear this from black people all the time. We should be more like the Jewish people. We should be more like the Asian people, whatever. But it's like, no, we should be able to have whatever, you know, freedoms that anybody else in this country has without having to constantly prove. ourselves. We are just as worthy as anybody else. And that should be the bottom line. If you want to, yeah, basically that, that's the one thing that hurts me. And then from, I don't know if this is specifically wellness, but I do see a lot of conversation that is kind of funny for me when

we're talking about, especially white people talking about the plight of black people, everything, all the struggles that black folks go through. My concern is a little bit of like I don't want, you know, as you learn about, as you learn about black history or this other side of American history that you may not have been taught before, I don't want people to feel sorry for black people or feel like black people need to be pitied or black people need to, you know, like you got to look at us as like a weaker or like some different type of person who just like need your pity and it's like a sorry thing. You know what I mean? It's more about like getting out of black people's way, getting in supporting.

You know, my husband has, I don't know if you want to say this, but he has this conversation. I'm going to say it. He has this conversation with a friend who I find, I think this friend is 100% racist and he has shown himself through this conversation. My husband's like, you know, trying to like teach this guy. He thinks that by people saying, I'm going to support black, I'm going to, we're going to hire more black people.

You know, there's like 15% pledge. You're going to make sure that, you know, if I'm selling people, you know, products, 15% of the products that I have on my shelves are from black-owned businesses because that's how much of the population make up. He thinks that that is basically like saying that, even though black people products and black people are not as good, they're not as talented, they're not as this, that, and the other, even though we're going to support them because we feel sorry for them. No, that should never be the case. I think it's so important to understand Black people are just regular people.

And we, you know, if it comes to the 15% pledge, trust me, it will be very easy to find Black-owned businesses that are even better, best as good as, or often better than whatever else that you're already selling. It's not about lowering your standards in any way, shape, or fashion at all. It's about understanding that you've been overlooking the products or the people of an entire group for way too long and you're just correcting that. There's no need to lower any standards whatsoever. You don't need to pity black people. Black people are strong. Black people have all these potentials and talents and things. Don't pity us. Just like get out of our way and understand

that you've been like, you know, basically not supporting us and turning a blind eye and act like you don't see us all this time. But we're just as good as all y'all. And That's it. So yeah. I always say that about the whole diversifying people's feed movement that's happening right now, too. Nobody's saying, like, follow a bunch of people that you don't want to follow. They're saying now that you're aware these people exist, you can choose the ones that resonate with you and then follow the people that resonate with you. But it's about bringing that awareness to the surface. And I think that that's what hasn't happened as much before this moment. Exactly. And that's why I'm excited because now, it's not just about like

some sort of like broken affirmative action where you're just like oh I really don't like any of this but I have to file all black people no it's not like that anymore like you're saying people I think are having more of that understanding that

no it's got to be something I resonate with something I actually like you know and if I open my eyes up there I see yeah there's many of people whose messages I resonate with me and there's plenty of people selling products or who have like if you're hiring people who have all the qualities and you're even perhaps overqualified.

Well, and I think if you don't do that, it can't have the long, like you'll follow somebody for a month and then you'll unfollow them. You'll use a product briefly and then you won't rebuy it. So I think that it's so important when people are integrating different voices and different perspectives into their lives that it is shit that they resonate with. And that's a scary far for me as a black person because my whole life has been, you know, I might have this opportunity right now, but it could just go away if I do something wrong. I don't get a second chance. I have to work so much harder. And it's like, oh my God, there's so much anxiety around that. And so I know that what I treat is wonderful and valuable in all these things. But I'm like, but still, there's like this

slither of anxiety and fear that they're going to be like, we're looking extra hard for something like bad like something to grow wrong so they have an excuse to like unfollow me you know I think they just need to make a recipe or two and then they're on board for life yeah they're good do you have um time for my quick fire questions really fast okay first of all is if you were going to spend 20 minutes every day in the name of living a healthier happier life what's the best way to spend that 20 minutes yoga. Do you think 20 minutes is enough to do yoga to get like a good effect to have it count? Yes. Yes. Yoga's different things, right? So it could be like I say, I do, I'm especially doing a lot of yoga nidra, which is basically yoga sleep. and it's active.

So it's not the same as just like regular sleep. If I can't fall asleep before I had my sofa, if I couldn't fall asleep in the bed and I was trying to take a nap, I would put on yoga nidra for an active rest. And that would help me feel very rested, but it still would be, it is still yoga. So, you know, and even if it's an asana practice, actually like movement of yoga, 20 minutes,

if that's all you can get in, really, really adds up. What's one thing that you've bought recently that's made your life healthier or happier? That sofa. There's so many things with this stuff. Where is this? I feel like you need to shout out the sofa brand at this point. It's room and board.

It's a room and board sofa. I think it's like a really deep. It's a 91 inch sofa. It's like a regular sofa. It doesn't look like anything fancy or anything. I just wanted to get a really comfy sofa. And that's what I got. I like, I had an urban outfitters couch for years that was like $300 that I bought online.

And then I replaced it with an article couch, maybe two. two or three years ago. And my insomnia, like, got better because I knew that in the middle of the night, if I couldn't sleep, I could go sleep on the couch. It, like, changed my life, honestly. Yes. See, same. I had to, I had to wake up at 3 a.m. the other day because I was on GMA.

And I slept on the sofa. And, like, the fact that it was so comfortable, I went to sleep just so much easier. I was like, great. I also think there's, like, less pressure with sleeping on a sofa versus sleeping. Like, your bed is like, you need to go to sleep right now. You're in the bed, which is sleeping time. But the couch is like, you do what you want. I don't know.

I don't care. And then you fall asleep instantly, like always. So true. Do you feel successful and why or why not? I do feel successful because I get emails and DMs from people all the time who are telling me that they've been inspired to become vegan and to eat healthier and to take charge of their health. And that has always been my mission since I started Sea Potato Soul to just help inspire people to. to live healthier, happier, and more vegan, hopefully lives. And I get that every day.

And that is just awesome. And of course, you know, I am, you know, half my own business and it's thriving and all like the regular forms of success. Yes. But as far as like my ultimate mission, the thing that like drives me the most, I get it all the time. And I feel like we already covered this a little bit. But is there somewhere in the world that you've been,

we've talked about where you want to, you'd want to move to maybe, but is there somewhere in the world where you've been where you've been like the people really nailed it here in terms of living a healthier happy life? Yeah, Costa Rica. I lived there in high school. I did an exchange program there. And it was, yeah, definitely. Do you feel like you're treated differently as a black woman there?

No, because I think maybe because they know I'm American, you know, because there are a lot of black people in Costa Rica. I've only been to the Caribbean side, which is where most of black people live. I've only been there once when I was in high school. But yeah, I think they know I'm American. When you're American and a black person traveling abroad, it's different. They say if you speak to a black person who is actually from there, their experience is not going to be the same as yours. Interesting. People with Americans are just like, you do you have like privilege because you're an American?

We had that experience in England. They're so class conscious there. And when you speak, your accent immediately tells people essentially how to categorize you. And we live there for a while. and we had friends who were really posh and friends who came from poor backgrounds and nobody knew what to do with us. So we got to kind of go to all the different social classes, which was interesting because they're so class divided. We're talking to our friends there and they said all the issues you guys are having with race and those conversations in America, we're having them around class in England. I think it would be helpful actually for us to have to talk about class more because I believe that in these conversations around race in our country, they are.

it's our class issues. Like, black people are in a lower class. Even if, like, for me, I make more money than my mom. And I am still in, I didn't, like, go to a different class. I'm married to a white man. And I don't think I'm in a different class now. I still live in the same neighborhood. And he just had to come to this neighborhood with me, basically.

I do have more, you know, potential. Not potential, but I have more, like, for example, when we wanted to get pre-approved for a loan to buy a house, I'm like, I'm paranoid because, you know, historically black people getting loans and like qualifying for loans and such. I was like so grateful. Not grateful because it sounds bad. But, you know, I was like, I'm glad you're right and you're like here and like, you know,

and sometimes I'll have him go in and do something or have him make a call because I'm, I'm afraid because, you know, the United States guy is paranoid for, you know, a long time. For a good reason. I mean, you're afraid with statistical back. You're backing for your fear. Exactly. So. But yeah, the class issue, I think it would be helpful to see like, like, y'all, we talk about, you know, class issues in different countries all the time and, like, talk about it, like, we've evolved beyond that.

But I don't think we have. No. And I think it's one of the reasons I love talking about money so much and money is so taboo. And I think that the taboo around money, like how it, in jobs, they'll tell you not to share your salary. It just proliferates the class issues. It makes them go on longer. because we're told to, and women are especially not to talk about money. And then that keeps women making less money.

And I'm just like, let's talk about it. I totally agree. Okay, last one. What is one mistake that you've made that you've learned from the most? And then what's one thing that you really feel like you got right in your life? Well, from a many, many, many mistakes. Like, I'll say through, if this is okay, through a slew of many mistakes of the course of many years, I have learned that happiness and contentment doesn't come from outside of you,

but it comes from within you. And so now I'm 33. I'm able to really, when I think that I can get happiness from something outside of myself and I like start obsessing over how do I get that thing, I'm now able to correct myself and really have a conversation with myself to remind myself that before you can get it from out there, you need to make sure it's coming from the inside.

Because that thing that you want on the outside, you're going to get it. It's not going to make you happy for very long, you know, and then it's going to be something else. And you've forgotten about this thing. So instead of putting so much energy and how do I get whatever thing? Because there's a lot of things, put that energy into myself instead.

What's something you really nailed? Like, what'd you really get right in life? Which I feel like what you just said was almost that. Yeah. I mean, I got that right as like as an idea. But like to practice, that's a different thing. How do you put that into it? Like, how do you put, because I can get the philosophy behind that.

But then I don't know quite how to put that energy into myself in a way that's concrete and not based on achievement or being validated by external sources. Well, for me, gratitude, like living in gratitude, you know, I don't keep a, I've kept a gratitude journal for a years and I'm not keeping one right now. Maybe I should, but I have developed this practice of, you know, constantly coming back to gratitude within myself and in everything that I do. Because if I don't keep, you know, being grateful. grateful for the things that I do have. It's super easy for me, very, you know, ambitious type A type person to like start looking around the corner and like not seeing anything that's right in front of me anymore. So gratitude. I would say that's where that's something I've gotten right.

Gratitude and just, yeah, being, I think also being very self-critical, but not, I don't think, I don't believe I'm self-critical to a fault because that could be obviously dangerous too. but trying to be self-aware and critiquing things that I want, ideas that I have, being okay with being wrong, I think is important. My husband has taught me a lot of that. I call him he's like a natural born Buddhist. He wouldn't say that, but to me he is because I am not like that. And our relationship has always been, you know,

the biggest difficulty we've had in our relationship is that clash of personality. And so over the last 12 years, I've definitely learned to question and to not be so impulsive and impatient to question, you know, my motive and have gratitude and to fulfill my own tank and fulfill my own quest for happiness rather than trying to get it from outside. I love that. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. Thanks for having. I hope you loved this episode with Janette Clayboard. I'm feeling mushy today, but I really am so grateful that you're here.

I'm so grateful to get to have these conversations to think about these things and to share them with all of you and to get to continue having them later with all of you on Instagram and on email and all of that. So if you have thoughts on this episode, please screenshot it. Tag me. I'm at Liz Moody. Tag Jenae. She's at Sweet Potato Soul.

And if you love the episode, I would so appreciate a quick iTunes rating a review. It makes a huge difference in helping people find the podcast. I also think we're like 20 away from a thousand on iTunes, which is very exciting. I don't know why it feels like a big milestone. So I really appreciate you helping me reach it and helping this podcast reach more people. If you know somebody who would love or benefit from all of the wisdom that Jenae shares in this episode, please shoot the link over to them. And let's welcome them in to our little H.T. fam.

All right. Thanks for being here, guys. And I will see you on the next episode. When you think about strength and resilience, like your ability to feel energized, to recover well to stay strong as you get older. What do you think that actually comes from? Most people say working out or good nutrition and yes, of course that matters. But there is a biological foundation underneath all of that that most people are completely overlooking. I have been diving deep into this lately with the team at timeline and what I've learned has

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