The Liz Moody Podcast - Jessica Murnane—How Chronic Illness Impacts Relationships, The Art of The Hustle & Making Friends As An Adult

Episode Date: July 24, 2019

Today’s guest is one of my favorite people on the planet, Jessica Murnane (@jessicamurnane). Jessica is the founder of the One Part Podcast and Know Your Endo, and she’s also the author of the best-selling plant-based cookbook, One Part Plant. We talk about SO much in this episode, including body image issues, how to small talk and network, how chronic illness impacts your life and relationships (Jessica has endometriosis; I’ve dealt with severe anxiety), how to make friends as an adult, panchakarmas (say what?? You’ll find out in the episode, but it changed Jess’s life!), and tons more. For the photos of the Jane magazine shoot referenced, head over to @lizmoody on Instagram. For SF & Chicago tour dates, go to lizmoody.com/events. Enjoy! PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy right here or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! This episode is sponsored by Simple Mills, one of my favorite grain free food brands. I’ve been using Simple Mills products for years, starting with their amazing cake mixes. They’ve since expanded the line, which now includes the original cake mixes, pizza dough mix, brownie mix, bread mix, pancake & waffle mix, ready made crackers and cookies, and more. Everything has only a few simple, largely organic ingredients, and there are no weird gums or emulsifiers. You can use the code “healthiertogether20” for 20% off any order on simplemills.com, and if you need product recommendations, don’t hesitate to ask me for them on Instagram (@lizmoody). This episode is also brought to you by one of my all time favorite brands, Garden of Life. I’ve been taking Garden of Life probiotics for more than four years. Their Mood Plus probiotic is formulated specifically to help with stress and anxiety, and it’s made a huge difference in my mental health. Zack also takes their Once Daily Men’s probiotic, and their RAW Vaginal Care line is an amazing secret weapon against any UTIs or yeast infections. I also love their prebiotic, which has five clean, organic ingredients and provides food for the probiotics in your gut. You can check out all of my Garden of Life picks at lizmoody.com/shop. If you need recommendations for specific products, please DM me and I’ll help you figure it out! I can’t wait to hear how they change the health of your whole body and mind! Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I just finished listening back to this episode, and it made me cry like multiple times. And I cannot wait to share with you all. I hope you're emotionally prepared for that, but it's very, very good. So I'm excited. If we haven't met yet, I'm Liz Moody, and I'm a writer and I'm a cookbook author, and I am currently on tour for my latest book, which is called Healthier Together. I've just announced my dates, actually, for San Francisco and for Chicago.

So if you live in either of those cities, definitely come hang out. I want to meet you in real life. My tour events are super, super fun. In San Francisco, I'll be doing a panel with my friend Nicole Modic, who is also known as kale junkie. And then in Chicago, we have a twofer for you. We got Janine from Levin Lemons and Monique from Ambitious Kitchen. So you can head over to lizmoody.com slash events to check them out and snag tickets.

It'll be a really, really great conversation. All of my events so far have been really fun. You get to, like, talk to us, but also you get to meet other people who are interested in the same kind of stuff as you from your. like local area, which is amazing, building the community, what I am all about. So I would snag your ticket soon because every event we have had so far has sold out, which like speaking of that, my Seattle event sold out in less than a week, which blew my mind. You guys are amazing. It is not lost on me at all that I get to write these books and have fascinating conversations with my

favorite people on the planet because of this community. And I am so, so grateful for that. So thank you for being here and for always sharing your thoughts on the episodes with me and just for being part of this ongoing quest I have to build community and to combat loneliness and to think about real things and elevate the conversation. And I don't know, I'm just so appreciative of all of you. And I love that you're here and I love that we can do this together. So speaking of that, today's guest is one of my favorite people on the planet, Jessica Mernan. I met Jess through my editorial work years ago. And I tell this story on the podcast, but she was so helpful and so lovely with a number of things in my life from I needed some advice on my second cookbook. I was

pitching it at the time and the podcast and all of that. And she didn't know me, but she reached out and talked with me on the phone for like over an hour. And that's just like the kind of person that Jess is. She's the founder of the one part podcast, which is one of my favorites. If you like this podcast, you will definitely like that. one. It's got wellness conversations and really great guests. And she goes to places that other people wouldn't necessarily go. So definitely check that out. And she's also the author of the Plant-Based Cookbook, One Part Plant, which has the only cookies out there, I think, that are as good as the best healthy cookies from the healthier together cookbook. So if you like cookies, check that out. And if you

don't like cookies, we probably can't be friends. So you should learn to like cooking. No, I'm just kidding. Just means there's more cookies for me, which is great. So she's done all of that stuff. But she's also had like a million careers, honestly, and she's such a hustler, which is something we talk about a ton on this podcast. I think she takes for granted the fact that she'll like cold email people. She cold emailed people to like have a magazine feature about her life. She's cold emailed people for friendships. She's cold emailed people for jobs. And I got her to share like the literal wording of those emails and the specific subject line because I'm just like, this isn't a normal thing people do, Jess. Like people don't just go for stuff like that. And I think that's one of the things

I love so much about Jess is she's the living embodiment to me of my life motto, which is never be the one to say no to yourself. Like if you have an idea, if you have a project you want to do, any of that go for it. And if you fail, if somebody else says no, do you, fine. But then at least you don't have to sit and wonder, you know, what would have happened if you'd done it. And I think Jess has lived her life that way. And it's yielded these incredible results. So we get into how she does all that.

And we also talk about a ton of other stuff from body image issues. to actually how to do like small talk and to network with Jess is super good at. And I deeply hate. I want to like talk about your childhood from the first minute that I meet you. But she's great at. So we get her tips for that. She also has this little bit of a change of gears, but she has endometriosis, which has really, really impacted her life. It's why she went plant-based. And when she was stuck like in bed for weeks on end and she just had this like horrific, incredible amount of pain. So we get into how her chronic illness has impacted her mental health and her relationships and all of that. And it's a really, really interesting conversation for me because I

have this like very deep and complicated relationship with my anxiety. If you don't know this about me, there was a point where I was bedridden for, you know, a month or so with extreme agoraphobia. And it's been years where my anxiety sort of, it's been worse at times. It's been better at other times. It's pretty okay now. But it still really impacts my life. life and it really impacts my relationships and I sometimes resent it and I feel like I've lost all these years in my life. And other times I feel like I've gained so much perspective and gentleness with myself and all of that. So it's an ongoing journey for me personally and just definitely gave me advice that's affected how I view things in my own life and my own mental health and my own body.

So I hope that any of that hopefully will help you as well. And finally, definitely say to until the end because like literally in the last 10 minutes, she shares her genius secrets to making incredible friendships as an adult. And this is something I really, really personally struggle with. I feel like I've gotten better in the last few years. And actually a lot of that was doing by doing exactly what Jess talks about in this episode. But I've moved so much from San Francisco to New York and to London and then back to New York. And I've also fallen out with my college group of girlfriends because we like, our friendship was sort of based on doing drugs and partying and like being hot girls going to parties and flirting with boys.

And I don't really do that stuff anymore. And so we sort of realize there's no there there. So when people have these very strong tight-knit, like I interviewed Kelly LeVec on last week's podcast and she's a tight-knit group of college girlfriends, and I'm so jealous of that. But Jess proves that you can find that tight-knit group of girlfriends later in your life, too. And I find that really inspiring personally. So love that, love learning from her on that.

And I think a lot of people don't like to admit that they, have a hard time making friends or any of that. They don't want to be like, oh, I'm like lonely or, oh, I'm a loser. So I just like, I love to like open up that conversation and to start to talk about those things and to say that it's okay to talk about those things. And it's okay to be like we're all lonely sometimes. And that's completely fine. So you can find Jess at her podcast, which again is called One Part Podcast.

And she's a ton of great guests, including me. So you can go check out my episode on the One Part podcast. And then you can also find her on Instagram at Jessica Mernan. M-U-R-N-A-N-E. Spelled like M-N-A-N-E. Yeah. So we would both love to continue the conversation that we started here. So tag us both.

I'm at Liz Moody. And share what's resonating with you as you're listening, share what you struggle with, what you love about the episode. I love bringing the conversation, like bringing you guys into the conversation. I don't think it starts and stops with this episode. So I love getting to talk to you about all this stuff.

So definitely come over to Instagram. Let's continue the conversation. for sure. All right, that is enough from me. Remember to check out lizmoody.com slash events for all of those real life events so I can squeeze you in real life. I can sign your copy in my book, all of that. And now enjoy this episode with Jessica Mernan. All right, Jessica Mernan, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, thank you. The tables are turned. The podcasters become the podcastee. Jessica Mernan, if you don't know who she is, is the host of the one-part podcast, which is my very

favorite wellness podcast. Apologies to all of my friends who host podcasts who might be listening to this. Well, I guess my podcast should be my favorite, but this is probably my second favorite. And she is the author of the one part plant cookbook, which is an endometriosis advocate and the founder of New York. And she's also been a really great friend to me over, I've known you for what, like probably two and a half years now. And I just want to kick off with a quick story about how good Jess is supporting other women. I was having some sort of like cookbook crisis when I was selling my second cookbook.

And I had talked to you, I don't know, like once maybe before. And I feel like you had said something like, oh, you could text me if they give a question about this. And I sent you like a quick text with a question. and you were like, I'm going to call you. And then you called me and we spent like an hour on the phone with you giving me like nitty gritty cookbook advice, like talking about dollar amounts of advances and all this stuff. And I was just like, who is this woman who has no investment in me and is like willing to go

out of her way for a person like that? And it just, it was such a great kickstart to a friendship. And it highlighted all the things that I really, really admire about you. I remember I was laying in bed with Zach. Zach was like, who is this? And I was like, I don't know. You've returned the favor in many ways, but I think you're the same. I just really, I just like for people to succeed. Yeah, well, let's start with that. So I was saying, I think I was talking to you once about how I, how jealousy is something that I really, really struggle with. And you were like, well, that's interesting. I don't know about jealousy. How do you, you're so good at supporting another women. Do you never get jealous or envious of other people's success ever?

I don't really know if it's a jealous. It's more of sometimes an investigation into maybe their platform or their book sales or something and thinking, wait, what's their magic that people are drawn to that maybe I'm missing? So I don't really know if it's necessarily a jealousy. It's kind of more of a curiosity. And what if it seems like it's like if I can talk myself down my head, I'm like, oh, she's like, we're. this hard for this many years or she has this incredible message. I'm like, okay, cool, Liz, like she's offering these really cool things. You can be happy for a success. But if it just seems like they got lucky, even though I in my own career have gotten lucky so many times, I still get,

I'm just like, oh, she got lucky. Like, and then I get angry about it or I feel bad about myself. Yeah. I don't know where the not jealousy thing comes from because even with my husband, And I don't get jealous of other women. Oh, other women? No, I'm just kind of like, oh, she thinks that she's talking to him, but look who he's going home with. I don't know where or why. I mean, I'm happy with it. Maybe I'm like some sort of weirdo that doesn't get jealous.

But, I mean, I will say that I think that I've always been friends with people that are a lot smaller than me or less like cellular lighty and. booby is me. Oh, I thought you meant smaller, like, not as successful. I mean, they're, their physical form and or, or like, I have friends and I'll look at their legs and I'm like, wow, you shaved your legs and it actually looks like you shaved your legs. Like, mine grows back the second that I get, like, cold. So do you get jealous about physical appearance? I don't think it's a jealousy. It's sort of a, huh, how'd she, how come she can shave her legs? Oh, I got lasered. That's how.

You got laser? Yeah, I got laser. So, like, lasering doesn't last forever despite popular, like, despite that they tell you when you're spending your $3,000 to get lasered. But you get, like, only a few straggly little hairs. And then when you shave those, which I do like once a month, you look, my legs look like a big ad. All right. Well, maybe I'll try a laser. Pale thick ad.

Yeah, lasering. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it probably has some sort of horrific health effects. We'll find out about later. but it's great. Yeah. So, I mean, because, like, I remember last summer I went to a pool party. And I just walked in and I'm like, how the fuck are all of my friends just gorgeous?

And then so I think it wasn't necessarily a jealousy. It was more of a. But then don't you like, aren't you like, oh, if all my, it's like, if there's a apple at a grocery store and it's surrounded by other apples. And the apples, like, I wonder if I'm an orange. And they're like, oh, I'm in the apple section surrounded by all the other apples. Maybe I'm an apple. So when you go to a pool, there's a very bad. But if you go to a pool party and you're like, all my friends are gorgeous, aren't you like,

oh, maybe I'm gorgeous too because this is my friend group and I fit in with them? No, because I think I've always thought of myself as like the kind of not as cute, chubby, funny friend. I mean, I think that's ridiculous because I think you're truly the most photogenic person I've ever Okay, but photogenic doesn't mean that you're hot in real life. I feel like I'm the opposite. Every time I see a photo, I'm like, I hope I'm not photogenic because otherwise that's what I'm actually always looking like. And I need to like come to terms of that in a new way. But okay, so let's, I feel the same.

Like often, I feel like I've gotten by my humor. I've been, I've hung out with like the cool, hot people. But because I'm bringing like funny, fun vibe to the table. Okay, so let's roll back to like who you were growing up. Yeah. Well, I was. Where did you go? Where did you go?

Not as cute, funny friend. Oh, no. I grew up in Ohio until I was 12. And then my mom got remarried to a guy in the military. So then we moved every three years, which North Carolina, Virginia, California. Yeah, we moved a ton. So I definitely, I know you talk about how I always seem very confident. I think that that just creates a company.

Yeah, you have to make new friends at all times. And you, yeah, I mean, and especially like, I remember we moved my, the end of my sophomore year. So I had to enter a new high school as a junior. And it was, and I was also like a weirdo kind of like punk rocky kind of kid that hang out with like the goth kid. Okay. So, and moving to California, Monterey, California, where everyone is kind of fresh and surfery, I definitely was not that cool. Did you make friends? Oh, yeah. I made friends with the

gothie weirdo skater kids. Like, is it like, is it like if you were all black and you have some spikes somewhere, like you can come hang out with us? Yeah. And I think, but I think back then to there wasn't as much of like a monoculture of like you definitely stood out if you listened to a type of music, I think. So, yeah, my best friend was Sienna, this goth girl, and Andy, who was a skate kid, and it was just like three of us. And when you were a kid, did you think, like, I'm going to write cookbooks? I'm going to be what I'm, like, known, if not famous, known in certain circles. I wanted to be a dentist. Oh, my God. I wanted to be. Wait, I'm sorry, I didn't know that about you and I feel like we can't be friends anymore. Well, I wanted to. Why on earth would

anybody want to be like thank you to all dentists out there because you're doing such important work but it's it feels like what and if you are a dentist please write to me on Instagram and tell me what is appealing about looking in people's mouths. Okay well that's the thing is I thought I could be a dentist and I could be really successful and kind of have my own business and so I think I was more excited and I think I thought it was like less school than being a doctor. I kind of thought of it as this successful type of career. And then I remember as I was starting to get to the point where I was going to be applying to colleges, it's like, wait, but you have to look in people's mouths and pull teeth out. And some people might have really bad breath.

Yeah, it's disgusting. And you can just be like, oh, you have bad breath. Like, you need to leave. Yeah. It was not, it was a weird career choice. And then I ended up going to school for graphic design. Okay. So you go to school for graphic design, which you still do, your.

You're still, like, very designy, I feel like you don't do a lot of graphic design, but I feel like your house is really chic. Like, your brand is really cool. You were really involved with the design in your book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I designed right out of college. I worked at Paper Source. I've ever been to Paper Source? Yeah. Yeah. I was in the- Did you design cards? Design wedding invitations at Paper Source. And then I opened up my own wedding invitation stationary shop in Chicago. And that was for a lot. long period of my life. I designed wedding invitations. Did you like it? I loved the design part. I really loved. So I did custom work, which is where you make all of your money. Because if you're selling a stationary card and it's $5, I mean, your margins are zero. Right. So I was making all the

money from the custom, but it got to a point where it was so stressful dealing. with these brides, no offense, the brides or Dennis, but dealing with brides. And the type of weddings I was doing, like, I remember this one woman ordered this handmade paper from Japan. And I had to order, I mean, the paper costs $10,000 alone. And then we had to, like, cut it and hand line all the envelopes. And then when we sent out a test invitation, it came back. And because it was hand-died, it had like died the entire invitation. It was just, it was stuff like that. It was like you're dealing with these natural products and it's totally out of your control.

Well, okay, so let's roll back for one second. Yeah. When you graduated from college and you, so you worked at paper stores, but like you've kind of worked for yourself ever since you started your stationary business. Yeah. No, I, when my stationary, I had two lives of the stationer business. I owned a store with a business partner. Okay.

Which always get a partner agreement. We won't go into that. But that was kind of like a, okay. That was not cool, the ending of that. And then I didn't know what I was going to do. And this is so, talk about hustler stuff. Do you remember Jane Magazine? Yeah.

Okay. X-O-J. Oh, yeah. So Jane Magazine was like a paper magazine. It was like my favorite magazine. And my company was ending. So I reached out to them to do an entertaining story about how I was, moving on to start something new because I was like, I'm going to be in that and say I'm starting

something new and then maybe someone will want to hire me to do. Did you have a something new you were starting? No, not at all. I was like, this is going to help me find something new. So they totally like the idea of this entertaining story. I got the entertaining story. Wait, how did, okay, I'm sorry, how did you even know how to pitch something like that? I don't know. I just, uh, like who did you email? How did you find their email? I just looked at the mashead. I just looked at the mashead. I found... Okay, this is stuff I think a lot of people don't even know. When Dan and I, my husband and I got married, we eloped.

And then I wanted to help promote my invitation business. So I pitched to a magazine for them to cover our wedding reception. And it was for Budget Living Magazine, which was also one of my favorite magazines. And I pitched it as we're going to do our whole wedding reception on our tax return. That was like the concept. So I think that when you're pitching things, you just have to have, you can't just, email someone and say, hey, you should really feature me. It's like, okay, well, who are you? What's your idea? If you editors, as you know, have to write about something all the time.

And if someone can email them like a cool content idea. And it happens to feature you. Right. Great. Good to go. Okay. So, and you were, I think also an important point is that you were already a big fan of this magazine. Right. Totally. You were emailing them content ideas that you knew would fit with them. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You read them. Right. I always say when people want to pitch that They should go and, like, read my buddy green for like 20 minutes and read Marie Claire for 20 minutes and write the headline that they're pitching in the format that the headlines are written on the site because I feel like editors think in titles. Totally. So then you went and found the mask head and just like search for the email and just sound like a cold thing. Yeah.

And they were like, yeah, we're into it. Yeah. When, you know, I had to send them photos and scouting photos of my living room and dining room or whatever. And then what they wanted me to do was cast it with friends using the quote sign. So they would look good in the magazine. And someone that I used for the party was like a friend of a friend that was going to be featured. And I didn't know her. And she came.

And we started talking and she offered me a job. So it did work. It did work. It worked not in the way. Wait, it's okay. We'll get to that in a second. But do you do you get paid for these types of articles? No.

They're just for, yeah. I mean, this is back in the day, too. This is like a while ago. And did they pay for like a photographer? Oh, yeah. I mean, they paid. They brought in like a whole team. They brought in a whole team.

Okay. So then you have this party and a friend of a friend. Did you cast it like for like, hey, beautiful, diverse people. Exactly. Do you want to come over to my house? Totally. Yeah. And the funny thing is they cut everyone from the shoot.

Oh, really? Yeah. So it just ended up being me anyway. Oh my gosh. I feel like we, do you have the photos for this? I kind of want to. Find them and put them online and we share this episode. Okay, so who is the friend and what was the job?

It was a job at this place called Gen Art that was like this really, it's now out of business. It was a shady place, but it was they did fashion and art events. Like for instance, one of the things that we did, we helped with the casting of Project Runway. So like Tim Gunn, we were there and like we had to kind of like vet the people that were coming through to go to the next stage to be with him. And we did like bash in events and I don't know. It was was so lost that I was willing to just take anything to kind of figure out what I was going to do next.

Because I think when you break up with a partner in a business, it's not just your business ending. It's a whole other emotional situation. Did you always feel confident with the notion that you could make money being a creative and doing a creative career that you didn't need to like go and get a 9 to 5 job in an office for security and all of that. Yeah. I mean, I guess I just, I think I'm the type of person where I'm, I think I've said this before. So if I'm repeating myself, but I'm more scared to not do something than to just kind of stay safe.

So if I tried my business and it didn't work, I could just go get a job versus. Do you always feel like that? Yeah. But like at a certain point, doors were closed because I think that's unique. I think a lot of people end up staying in jobs that scare them because they're worried that if they leave that job, doors will close. They can't be reopened. Yeah, but I think it's, I mean, I think it's how you do it too. I mean, for instance, when I was opening up that stationary store, I was waitressing from

5 to 2 a.m. every single day. Oh, wow. And then doing that in the daytime. Or even when I was first starting one part planning. kind of ending my design career. I was working at my friend's hat shop during the day. Okay. I love those because I do think a lot of, at least in New York where I live, there's a lot of you meet people, have these like cool creative careers and you're like, oh, how do you make that work? And they're like, oh, my husband's an investment banker.

Or like my parents give me that. And all of that's totally fine. But it gives me the impression that I'd, like, my husband is not an investment banker. My parents aren't rich. So it. it's disheartening to somebody like me. And I have more means than a lot of people, though, you know. Right. And I think that just has always come back to how bad do you want something. And I mean, I don't think that you should be sleep deprived and, you know, put yourself in a bad state because you're so stressed out about your multiple jobs. But I don't know.

Like, I really wanted to quit my design career. And I really wanted to start one part plant full time. And I couldn't just make that as just a jump. So I had to have some stuff in between, like working at my friend's hat shop. Do you work in at your friend's hat shop when you started one part plant? Yeah. And one part plant, did that come directly out of your endometriosis situation? It did.

Well, okay. So wait. So let's back up because there's a weird thing connection there. So the woman that hired me at this weird photo shoot party thing. Did you meet him? I did. Yeah. A sequel.

Yeah, he's a very sweet, very sweet guy. And then working there, then after there for a year, I met someone else at a party that offered me a job to work for, don't make this a headline of the podcast because I know you're like, I don't even know if I want to say his name. But anyway, like a pop rock kind of guy to design his clothing one to be like the creative director. Like Kanye West? No. Well, I actually did work for Kanye West people after. but it was Pete Wentz, who had never heard one of his songs before. He sings, I like to sing songs on the podcast so people know what the songs are.

He's like the one that's like, we're going down to town. Right. And he's like the guitarist or bassist. He's not even like the singer. He was just always the most popular one. But I got an opportunity to do the creative direction. I'm using quotes again for his clothing line, which then led into opening up a bar with him and some other people. Wait, how did you, like you, you, I think you're skimming over.

But I'm, you meet people, most people, I'm just going to tell you this, I don't know if you're aware. Most people don't go to parties and then come away with the job where they're partnering with a rock star. Like, I don't know if you know that, but like I've gone to many parties. And usually I just sit in the corner and decide if I'm brave enough to go talk to groups of people. Well, I think that a lot of the opportunities that I've gotten in my career is because, I just talk to everybody. And I don't see someone across the room and think, we've talked about this before just this weekend.

Like I don't see someone across the room and think, could that person help me? Who is that person? I literally talk to everyone. And I think that there's been so many people in my life that didn't look cool. Yeah. Or I might not think that in any way they could service my career

and ended up being the people that helped me the most. So how do you, do you not get nervous going to? to talk to people or think like they're cooler than me and they won't want to talk to me? No, I just am like, I don't, I just, if they don't think I'm cool, then I don't really care. And what do you say? Like, okay, so there's, I can go talk to one person and I can be like, the cheese is great, which you couldn't even say. Right.

Something I can say, Jess is a vegan. But if there's like a few people in a group, do you just kind of like nudge your way in? I mean, I think that, well, my dad has taught me from the beginning of time. You never ask someone what they do for a living. You never, ever ask that as like your first entry point question. Because one, they might hate their job. Two, they might not have a job. Three, they probably don't want to talk about work at the party.

So I just always try to start with, oh, how do you know X the host or whatever? Or I don't know, some random thing about their outfit. or I don't know. I just something that. And I think the thing too is the people like to, the thing people most like to talk about is themselves. Yes. So you just like to ask them a question.

I know I'm always aghast or not. I mean, it's nice, but I feel like I'm a very curious person about people. And so I'll go out with people and I'll ask them a lot of questions about themselves. And then they'll go home and I'll hear through the grapevine like, oh my God, so and so love you. so much. And I'm like, that's so interesting because they don't know anything about me.

We just talked about them. Yeah, but they love you for it. It's fascinating. So I did. I met someone at the party. It was actually the birthday party of the girl that hired me for the other job. And then the bar situation happened where I had an opportunity to open up that bar. And I had also never done that before. And then we opened one up in Barcelona, which was one of the craziest experiences of my life. I got to go to Barcelona to open up this bar. How long were you there for? A week. Cool. And it was so cool because it was opening up in a hotel that wasn't open yet. So it was kind of like we got to live in this hotel that wasn't open. It was just very fun. But being in that whole thing, I was also still scouting for magazines. So there was a couple of magazines that would say,

hey, we think we want to feature this house in Chicago. Could you go check it out and see what you think about it? Or I would go scout trade shows for them to say like, these are the trends that I see. But through all of that, I was like, what am I doing? Like, this doesn't. How old were you? Uh, hmm. I don't know.

Maybe 32. Okay. And you didn't feel like you had like a capital C career at that point. Yeah, I just would lay in bed every day. night and think, what is my actual thing? Because it's not this. Like, this is cool on paper and I'm getting to do these amazing things. And so then I decided to start up my stationary company again, a different one. And after that for a few years is when my endos started getting horrific, my endometriosis. And that's when I started one part plant, which is this little site that I created.

And really that whole site was created because I was doing so much design for restaurants, like doing design and branding through paper goods. And I had so much credit at all of these restaurants because they would pay me cash money. And then they would also give me food credit. Oh, that's cool. But I couldn't eat at any of them because of my new plant-based diet. So I approached some of those restaurants. I was like, what if we started this program called one part plant?

You have at least one plant-based meal on your menu. so I can eat it. And then I'll feature you on this new website I'm creating, and it will just be a resource guide for people to know where they can eat. And so that's how one part plant actually started. Oh, that's cool. It wasn't like me wanting to have like a recipe website. It was me wanting people to be able to go eat out.

That's really interesting. And then I had all of those amazing bar and restaurant contacts anyway, so I was just able to kind of like plug that in. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. I am so, so excited to introduce you to this week's sponsor, Garden of Life. I really use and love all of my sponsors in real life, but Garden of Life is truly one of my favorite brands, and it has been for years. I first fell in love with their products after spending a period of a few months working on a gut health story. I'd interviewed a ton of doctors and read so many studies, and Garden of Life was one of the few brands that actually passed the test for every single thing that I wanted in a probiotic.

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come back and tell me how you're liking them. I can't wait to hear how you get on. Now, let's get back to the episode. When did the podcast come out of that? And were people actually finding your website? Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, would the restaurant share it? Yes. And what I did was is I started at the top. I started with the best chefs and restaurants and then figured if I started at the top, then more people will be more excited to join it. Like if I'm, I don't know, getting like a small little falafel shop that no one knows about. Right. Like that's okay. That's cool. But why not start with like the top chefs and then have it trickled down? And even if they don't all say yes, like you only need one to say yes.

And then everybody else is like, oh, that cool chef is involved. Exactly. So yeah, so yeah, people started finding out about it. And, you know, I was still doing paper goods at that time. I was still consulting for businesses. And then I just was still, I don't know, I just was starting to feel that anxiety again about the brides and design. And my Indo was so horrible. And I remember sitting on the couch one night, I was like, I have to figure out my thing.

Like, I have to figure this out. So I did this deep dive one night. And I thought about volunteering for, what is that thing called that college kids do? Like Vista or Peace Corps? Peace Corps. I started filling out an application for the Peace Corps. And I just remember it. I can't just leave.

to join the Peace Corps at this point in my life because I do, I can't just leave. I would even think about doing the Peace Corps, but I don't know if I'd want to do with a bunch of 22-year-old kids. Right. Right. Well, then I started looking into other volunteer stuff. And then I realized that volunteering is kind of expensive too. Oh.

You can't, you could have to, you know, you have to pay for your plane ticket. Right. You have to pay for your whatever. So. And in that night, I thought, what if I could take all this knowledge I've learned about how I've help myself and help others. And so I took the T. Colin Campbell plant-based certification course, which doesn't really teach you how to be a nutritionist or anything, but I thought, I'll have this knowledge. And then that day that I decided to take that course, I won a Vitamix.

Ooh. And it sort of felt like this is a sign. But yeah, I mean, so I was still selling my paper goods as I was starting this. And then it just got to a point where I thought, I can't fully embrace this and still do this design stuff. So I had like a giant sale. I sold all my paper goods. And then I started working at the hat shop. And oh, I worked at this weird real estate place for a minute too. How long did it feel like before you were like, okay, this is my career and I can make real money doing this? Well, that's the weird thing is that I got my book deal. I wasn't setting out to get a book deal. You know, I was kind of, I didn't even know if the one part plant thing would actually work. I was just kind of like, I can't do this design thing anymore. So let me at least explore this.

I don't even know what it will be. And then I got my book deal. And then when my book was turned in, which is two years ago, it came out now. After it came out, that's when everything hit me. And I thought, so wait, so now what is my career? Because none of that was planned, right? I had been doing design and consulting up until I got my book deal. So I didn't really know.

Like, I wasn't a blogger or an Instagrammer. That wasn't my space. And so that was a huge awakening as to what's next. Well, how did you just get your book deal? Did somebody come off to him on the stream? It's like, would you like a book deal? met them on a party. No, I had this little website called So How Was Your Day?

Liz, I've had so many careers. You have had so many careers. But it's interesting because you've made it work. And I think a lot of people are hesitant to try this or try that. And if something doesn't work, it's like I'm so protective of my time. And I'm so nervous to start doing things that might quote unquote waste my time. But I think you're this testament to like you don't know. How any of that is going to turn up or how that's going to add up.

Yeah. I started this website code. So how was your day? And I mean, this is a while ago. It was probably four or five years ago. And it just featured people that I thought were interesting and what they ate for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And what they did basically each hour of their day, which is in magazines like I've

seen it before. And all of the photos was them in their bed. That was the feature photo. because I just always want to see what people's bedrooms look like. And so that, an agent was interested in making that a book. And they just reached out to you. So a friend of mine had just had his book published. And I really wanted to make an entertaining book.

To go off of your big Jane feature. Well, yeah, and just the paper good thing. And I just loved entertaining. And so I said, could I talk? to your agent about this entertaining book and she told me no one's going to buy an entertaining book. And so, at least from you who no one knows, right? I mean, she was right. So she was like, give me another idea. And she was like, I do think you have an idea in you, but that's not it. So I started the So How Is Your Day website? I was like, this is an idea. And then she actually

transferred me to her assistant, which is now my agent who's like a baller agent. Thankfully, she didn't want to work with me. So we pitched. how was your day? And when we did an editor or a publisher said, is this the same Jessica that just started one part plant? Because that's the book we'd be interested in. So how long ago did you started the podcast? Or was it the podcast and the website? What was the editor? The editor, the podcast had like, I think had like two episodes. So she was more interested in that the website. Yeah. And then my agent said, who's so brilliant, she said, we're not just giving it to someone.

She was like, put a proposal together and we'll take this out instead and just forget this. So How is Your Day thing? And you put a proposal together for a cookbook. Yeah. Were you recipe developing at the time? Yeah. I mean, ish. I mean, I was cooking for myself because I had to, with my endometriosis, I mean, I had to change my whole way that I was eating.

So that was the base of the book was like, these are the recipes that I taught myself how to make. Which I think is one of the reasons. why it was such a successful book. Like I always, as an editor, I get sent like literally every cookbook on the planet. And I always find the shaft-driven ones to be really, really beautiful. But also, you cannot make this stuff at home. And a good home-cooked cookbook is worth its weight in gold, I think, because you can actually make the rest of the Jews. Yeah.

And it's interesting that you say that. I'm on the other side of it now, and I agree. But in the beginning of writing the book, I felt so much insecurity about, the fact that I was such a home cook. And then I just, Dan just kept reminding me, that's why they want you to write the book. And so on the other side, I'm like, oh my God, I'm so glad that I stayed not to be a, not to use a bachelor phrase, but I stayed true to myself. But I were there for the right reasons. Yeah, I was there for the right reasons. I'm so glad that I did stay true to that and just do what I knew as opposed to like trying to fake this like chefy persona, which I

I am not. Did you feel imposter syndrome as a, like, wellness expert? I don't think I felt imposter syndrome just because I have personally seen such my whole life. I will, I always get emotional when I talk about this, but like, I used to not be able to get out of bed. And it's like the fact that I was able to even stand in the kitchen and cook, like, that is not an imposter.

What was that like? I know you've shared your endosophobic. story. Can you just like give me like a two minute endo story? Yeah. So I was supposed to get a hysterectomy. It was eight years ago now. And oh, this is the full circle moment. The woman that hired me at the Jane magazine event is the one that ended up becoming my best friend that told me about a plant-based diet who I dedicated my book to. What? Yes. So when you open up one part plan, it says two of them. Amanda, that's her.

And I mean, and she didn't even, it's not like she sent me this email saying, you should really try this. But so I just had a couple surgeries. My endometeus was just out of control. I was emotional. I didn't want to wake up in the morning. It was just my. Are you in physical pain?

Yeah. It's not just physical pain. I think that's the tricky thing with Indo especially is that so many symptoms are not connected to your period. So 90% of women that have endo experienced GI symptoms. So diarrhea and also I had terrible urinary bladder issues. And so it's not just like, oh, wow, you have cramps during your period. It's all month long.

You've got some sort of weird thing happening to your body and you don't know why. And so Amanda, my friend who I dedicated the book to, was staying with me. And I think when you have chronic pain, you're really good. hiding it. And she kind of saw me. I had to catch myself on the table because I felt so like I was going to faint. And she went back home and she just did some research. And she just sent me this little link that said, check this out. It wasn't like this grand plan that she gave me. And I didn't think that it would work at all, just changing my diet. And then, I mean, it changed my entire life. And I think that I've said this before, which I think is so important.

that I think it's not just the food. It's the fact that I was so depressed and couldn't get out of bed that then when I started eating this food that made me feel better, then I could start moving my body again. And then I felt less depressed, which meant that I had a better relationship with my friends and family and my husband. So it was just this like huge full circle domino effect. I don't know what you want to call it with it, but it started with the food. Yeah, I want to talk about the mental health toll because I've, my illness or whatever is anxiety, but I've also like not been able to get out of bed and stuff because of it. And beyond the anxiety, I think I'm even just coming to terms with today how much being in that severe of a place was, how bad that was for me. What was it like? Like, how did you emotionally deal with that? And do you still emotionally deal with being, I don't know, like angry that you have endo or that you had to change your diet and eat all these foods and all that? That's a good question.

And actually, just really quick. So endometriosis is when the type of lining that lines your uterus grows outside of it. I just want to say what it is. And one in 10 women have it. Right. And it takes an average of eight doctors to get diagnosed. So someone listening to this podcast probably most likely has it. And it probably hasn't been diagnosed.

Exactly. Yeah. Which is crazy. So I think that, I mean, I remember so vividly there was this day because I was, they also, when I was diagnosed, they immediately put me on the birth control pill, which. It's common? Yes. Most doctors, if you have endo, they want you to be on the birth control pill because they say it helps with the cysts growth and helps with pain management.

For me, it made me crazy. And I don't want to use that word lightly because I know there's people with mental illness, but it made me crazy, severely depressed and just not myself. And it didn't make my symptoms better. And I remember this moment where I was sitting on this flight, I remember it was jet blue. I don't know why, but I was sitting on this flight crying in public, texting my husband, I feel like we should get a divorce just out of nowhere because I was in so much pain. I was so fatigued and I felt insane.

And it just like progressively got worse. And it just, and that's when the doctor suggested getting a hysterectomy. I was like, let's just do it. Like I don't want to feel like this anymore. Like I want to be able to get out of bed. I want to be able to be with my friends. I want it to not affect my work. And my relationship, like, why am I like, my husband is the nicest person on the

planet who would never deserve that type of text. It was over, he didn't even do anything. It was just out of nowhere. And it just, I was just not. I was out of control. So, but you didn't get a hysterectomy. I did not because I, I tried that diet. I tried the diet that my friend sent me, which was a plant-based diet. And within weeks, my whole, every, I went off the pill and I started my whole life changed. Did it have? How has your, because still to this day, you eat a certain way and you have to do a number of things to sort of keep your symptoms under control, right? Which, again, is similar. I feel like I'm not, can't get out of bad with anxiety, but I also have all of these things that I do to not get back in that place.

And it's been hard on my relationship. I feel like because my needs are greater, Zach is required to show up for me. Like my needs take precedent because their needs, whereas his are wants, I guess. How has that affected your guys' relationship like over the years? Wow. So I remember this moment to the year.

This would make me cry. I feel like you wanted a crying moment. So we remember the year that I changed my diet. And Dan had done, I mean, we've been together for 20 years now. And he did the cooking up until that point. He did the cooking. He did the dishes. He did the laundry.

He did everything because I was so in bad shape. And I remember that Christmas that I changed my diet. At Christmas, we all go around the table and we say something that were like especially excited about for that past year. And Dan just said that he was grateful that I could cook for him. And I know that sounds like a very archaic. Like, I'm happy my wife can cook for me. But it was this moment where he just felt so happy for me that I could participate in activities, like cooking. And so I don't know. I think that luckily I'm married to someone that is so supportive. that I don't know the full impact of how it's affected us.

But I think what has been cool is to see the impact that it's had since I've made those changes in a positive way. So now I can cook for us. And I still don't really like doing the dishes. But I just feel like I'm more present and I'm not in bed sick or have to miss a party or a wedding or So I think that it's just been a great thing. But I understand what you're saying too because, you know, my diet does impact the way that my family eats. But luckily, Dan ate healthier before I did.

He was a vegetarian first, right? Which I always think is funny. And not even like a fast food vegetarian, like a healthy eater. So yeah, I mean, I think that if I think that if I hadn't made the changes that I've had made, I don't know where we would be right now. But luckily, I sort of caught it, I think, before things I had to text them more times, I think we should get a divorce. Well, and I think we don't realize how much taking care of ourselves lets us, like,

take care of other people, I guess. Like, I'm just coming to terms with, like, I need to get my anxiety under control, not only for me, but for these people that I've promised to live my life. with and that and how much it does impact them. And I think I was always dismissive of it because I was like, what impacts you? But like, it's so much worse for me, you know? Right. But it still impacts them.

Well, of course. I mean, I had a, I had a partner who cooked all of our meals and did the laundry and did the dishes and had to make sure that I was okay, not just physically, but emotionally. I mean, it was a, I can't imagine coming home from work to someone that was a, sad as I was every day. Like, that's heartbreaking. Yeah, it is. Especially if you flip, like, actually picture it reversed. Exactly. Exactly. Back being that sad every day. Yeah, it's just, and again, like, I feel fortunate every single day for having Dan in my life because he has truly just supported me through all the weird careers through all of this health stuff

and just still remained supportive. And it's crazy because I remember. I remember we were together, the first two weeks we were together, I was like, this guy is so special that I'm going to fuck this up. And I remember that I like had a little meltdown after two weeks of being with him. And I was like, I think that we should just call it quits now because like you don't know all that you're going to have to deal with being with me. And he was like, no, I think I'll, I think I'll stick it out. And I'm like, oh my God. So it's like, I think from day one, he kind of knew. And I tried to. He likes the year a lot. Maybe. I like that. So you've become sort of like a wellness, not a fishing out.

You've become like famous in the wellness world. And I think it's an interesting world, the wellness world. And I think one of the really interesting things is that you get to interview all of the best people in their fields on your podcast. So I want to know what things you've actually changed in your own life as a result of your podcast. So many things. Really? Drinking water. You never drink water.

I was really not great at drinking water. So who told you to drink water? Dr. Lisa can never, I'm not going to butcher her name. It starts with an M. And she did the Alzheimer's episode and was just talking about how you, if you don't drink water, you're basically starving. your brain. I know you're more likely to, like, I know you're more likely of everything bad happening if you don't drink water. Right. Alzheimer's. That was, that was just of, of, uh, actual visual that I

could sort of latch onto as opposed to like, stay hydrated. It's like, half your body. Yeah, it's like, what does that mean? But the thought of my brain starving, shriveling out. I was like, oh, I'll shrink water. Uh, Dr. Gundry, so controversial, got the most hate mail when I had him on, but Dr. Gundry is famous for his views on lack. Right. Which are in chickpeas. They're in beans. Tomatoes.

Tomatoes. Squat. I mean, basically everything. They're in a lot of things. And he believes that they're super inflammatory in the body. And some doctors agree and some doctors highly disagree. Well, what I learned most from him is that I do not tolerate brown rice well. Did you just decide to cut it out?

Yeah. After I read his book, I thought, maybe brown rice and I don't get along. and I tried it and he was right. And I think with a lot of these people that I talk to especially, that I think that, and you've, I think you and I've talked about this before, if you're just an all-around well person that doesn't have some chronic disease and inflammation,

brown rice might be the best thing ever for you. But then if you're on the other side of the extreme of not feeling so well, taking out certain foods might be a game changer. So, yeah, so brown rice, drinking water. I've had some, I think every single guess I've learned something that I've taken away and been like, wow, okay. How, what does wellness mean to you at this point in your life? I think, I don't know.

Katie Horwich always asked on her podcast what positivity means to you. These questions are so hard for me. What do you think of the, well? I mean, we talked, when I went on your podcast, we talked about sort of a lot of the bullshit that exists in the wellness world. And I think there's been a lot of pushback recently about like, do we need a wellness world? Like a lot of the stuff that comes with the notion of wellness and Instagram. Yeah. Well, I guess I just, I personally like to stay in my lane and talk about things. With your lane. It was like covered a highway here. I like to,

I think that I know a lot about endo, and I think that that's what I'm very passionate about right now. And if that means going to high schools to talk to girls about it, like that's one of my most favorite things to do is going into a high school and telling them about endometriosis. I guess that's a form of wellness. I don't really know what it means. I think I just want to educate people and be educated by other people and just present conversations. conversations like on my podcast. It's like if you want to try this stuff, try it. If you don't, you don't have to. What bothers me is this notion that it's a one size fits all situation because it's not. Yeah. And I think it's nice the notion that it is for a lot of people because you don't need

to try a bunch of shit out. It's a lot easier to be like, oh, if you take this supplement, you'll be, you'll feel better. That's a lot easier. I mean like, you need to do an elimination diet and see what's working in your body because brown rice might be good. Brown rice might be And I think that's just a lot harder for people want the shortcuts. And I don't blame them. Of course. And I mean, I get, I mean, I haven't get fooled sometimes. Again, you know, I used to, when I used to scout for magazines, I would see these people's homes.

And it would be the two rooms that we were actually going to feature. And the rest of the house was looked terrible. And I think that that sort of similar to this too, it's like you have to, you just, you're seeing a glimpse of things. You're not seeing the full picture. Like just because someone eats assay bowls for breakfast, like are they also having all these other treatments you don't know about or like I think a really great example for me is I had a huge ovarian cyst a year and a half ago. And it doesn't matter how much green juice or I treat my body well. Like I had that ovarian cyst and once it was all over, I talked about it.

But I don't know. We don't see everyone's full medical situation. Right. It's like when the Hollywood actresses are like, oh, I use this skincare product and I drink a lot of water and that makes my skin beautiful. And I'm like, I know your facelist that you're giving a thousand dollars every other week to to get like 40 kinds of laser. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I don't know what wellness means.

And I don't even do you consider me part of the wellness? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, then. You have a plant-based cookbook. You have a podcast where you interview wellness stars and then you have an endometriosis. Okay.

Yeah. Well, you know, and there was the episode of my podcast where I got the second amount of un-nice messages when I said that I didn't identify as a feminist. Oh, yeah. And which I love feminists. I just don't identify one. So I think it labels in general, even when you said just as a vegan, I was like, like, I cringed inside because I guess I just want to do work and not have those parameters or labels.

Are there any labels you apply to yourself? Like you internally not just like make it easier to order at a restaurant or something. No, I don't think. I mean, I think that I have misophonia and have a severe hatred of sound. Jess, which is funny that you do a podcast. Do you ever listen to ASMR stuff or would that like, like, push you out. Oh, block. No.

But yeah, I don't, yeah, I guess I just don't. Yeah, I don't. Jess is like a human. Yeah, like I even remember when I went to this retreat a few years back in it was a circle of women and they all went around and said, how do you, who are you? And most of the women in that group were, had children. And the first thing they said was mom. And I didn't have mom anywhere on my list because I guess I just, I don't know. I am a mom. I am a mom. But I guess I just have never felt like putting those identifiers or labels. I don't know.

What do you remember what you had on the list? I think I had caring. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So like adjectives. Yeah. And then everyone else went around and said, mom, fitness instructor. And I don't, in my list was totally different. So I guess that's just how I think about stuff. I don't know. Do you feel like you found like your thing? Do you think this? This is your thing to your 32-year-old self on the couch? Yeah, I think that, gosh, I'm referring to Dan a lot in this episode. And I kind of don't like it when people do that on podcasts, talk about their husbands all the time. But I found this old note that he wrote me when I was going through some stuff the other day.

And it just said, I was going to New York for something. And it just said, good luck. Your thing is you. And I think that lately I've just been thinking that like my thing is me and like whatever I do is my thing. Like it doesn't have to be this grand plan. I love it. So I'm, there's a little kitten coming out. So I recently went to this thing that I can't shut up about on site.

Yeah. And one of my most profound moments there wasn't through like the group therapy work or anything. It was talking to my roommate. And we were talking about how I always am like looking for the sense of purpose and like what to do with every day. So it's the most meaningful thing. And she's like, I wonder if it's because you don't value yourself enough to just feel like you have purpose just by existing. Like you, your meaning is just being here regardless of what you're doing. And it hit me like a ton of bricks.

It just are like nice bricks, whatever the positive. equivalent of that is, but it was just crazy to think that maybe if I just like valued me as I am as a person a little bit more, I wouldn't need to be doing things to prove my worth or have value. Yeah, or just, you know, Ruby Warrington. Yeah. Like she talked about her, in her book about what is your Dharma, finding your Dharma. And we talked about that thing or that Dharma could just be that maybe you work at Whole Foods in the checkout. You're a bagger and your Dharma is just being nice to every person that comes your way. Like, I just don't think that these things or these careers have to be the thing that we are,

I guess. Yeah, I agree with that. And so it's taken me a long time to get to that. Well, I want to agree with that. I'm working and agree with that. But, yeah, I mean, I, I, lately I've been trying to just be. chill. You can hear about a cat drinking water. Do you have mesophony? I lately I've just been trying to think because, you know, I got a whole food partnership

for 2019 and I have been thinking, I stop myself and think, okay, but what about next year? What's that going to be? Yeah, I was going to ask if you like feel financially stressed doing this sort of creative career now. Do you feel like you need to have another book on the horizon or you just Well, it turned in my second book proposal. So there's that in the works. My agent is editing it now. But I do. I have learned about myself that I feel best when I have consistent,

I know what's coming. I don't like the feeling of like when I had my stationary business, was I going to get that job? I don't know. And then if I did get the job, oh my gosh, their wedding isn't until September. So I'm not going to get paid until I don't like that feeling, Which is crazy then that you've spent how many years doing creative careers where you don't versus like, you know, do you know that if you do a normal job in an office?

And I have. I've had a few of those. I've had a couple. But like you know 100%. I mean, I just left my normal full-time job. And it is disconcerting that, you know, two weeks is now past. And I don't just like have that check in my bank, you know. Yeah.

And luckily, this partnership that I'm doing right now, they pay me every month. so I know what's coming in. And my course right now, my endometriosis course is happening. And I have an average of what I'll be making from that. So it feels less. But it's funny, my friend, do you know Kathleen and Shannon from Being Boss? It's a great podcast if you want to listen to it. And we have sort of a state of the union together every six months or so

where we just talk about goals. And last year, the phrase, that we came up with was follow the money. It's like, don't mess with stuff that's not going to get us money. Like, don't spend time on Instagram forever because, you know, just scrolling because that's not benefiting the bottom line. And this year we talked about that our new phrase for this year is we have enough. Because the fall of the money was kind of, it was working.

But then we also have enough. Like, when we really think about it, like, I don't. do have enough. I really think I have enough. And it's taken me a while to, and I'm, I'm not rich by any means, but I realize that I don't need certain things like money, I guess, to feel like, I have enough. Yeah. It's a hard thing to realize. No, it is. It is. And again, like, I'm coming from a place where I'm not making six figures right now. Right. But when I really look at my life, life, I have enough. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast.

One of the most common requests I get is for more easy, quick, weeknight dinner ideas. So I'm about to tell you about one of my personal go-toes. I keep a box of simple mills almond flour pizza crust on hand. When I finish work for the day, I make the crust, which takes about a minute, and then add whatever toppings I have laying around, a jar of tomato sauce, some pastured cheese, any leftover veggies I want to get rid of. In 15 minutes, I have dinner on the table, and it's actually craveworthy, delicious, and super healthy.

Simple Mills is sponsoring today's episode, which basically means I get to tell you about a few ways I use their products, which have been in my life for years. I first fell in love with their cake mixes. Actually, my very first post to go viral back in the early days of Instagram was a lavender cake I made by adding dried lavender to their vanilla cake mix. It was so pretty, and it was so delicious. What I've always loved about Simple Mills is they're super simple ingredientless.

Unlike almost every other product where you have to squint to find the teeny tiny writing, Simple Mills displays their ingredients in a bold font and large letters, which they can do because each product contains just a few simple ingredients. Their brownie mix has just eight ingredients. Their crackers have just eight ingredients as well. That pizza mix I mentioned, eight ingredients. Everything is grain-free, but they don't use any gums or something. or emulsifiers, which is super, super hard to find. The texture is also incredibly good. The cakes are

light and fluffy and the pancakes come out perfectly every single time. Honestly, I've stopped even working on a pancake recipe because the Simple Mills mix is so good and easy to keep on hand. I like to use it as a base and add different flavors like berries or rose water or chocolate chips. I also love their frostings. They have a chocolate and vanilla and honestly, they're the only frostings I've ever found that meet my standards for flavor and texture and nutrition facts. They're my go-to for my annual gingerbread cookie decorating tradition, which I always do with my sisters at Christmas. I've been doing it for like my entire life. And now I've robed Zach's little nieces into it as well. And I also use them for the rest of the year to top cupcakes or cakes.

And I keep a jar in my cabinet when I can sew. I can like sneak a little spoonful whenever I need something sweet. I do that with a brownie mix too. I'll just whip up. up a tiny bit and I will not apologize for it. You can find Simple Mills that retailers nationwide are on their website, www.com. And I actually have a code for Simplemills.com. You can use the code healthier together 20, 20, like the number two zero, healthier together like this podcast, healthier together to zero to get 20% off whatever

you order. And if you want specific product recommendations or just to chat about my favorite cookie or cracker flavors, hit me up on Instagram at Liz Moody. or message them at Simple Mills. Everyone who works there is so nice. So I'm sure they'll get back to you right away. I cannot wait to hear what you guys think. I've been obsessed with Simple Mills for years,

and I can't wait for you to try them. Now, let's get back to the episode. When your book came out, were you able to feel sort of like common self-actualized and all of that around it as you are now? Or was it... No, I... The book coming out is just this hyper dump of stuff.

I feel like in your inbox, in your Instagram. It's just, it's a lot at once that I don't feel like you can really sit back and be like, wow, good job. I have enough. You're kind of like, what do I need to do? What do I need to do? Yeah. I mean, I think that that launch period is not amazing sometimes.

I mean, it's amazing you get to do a book. But, I mean, I've never given. I've had people tell me it's like, it will be the worst like three months in my life. I wouldn't go that far. But I mean, I think I haven't given birth to a child, but I would equate it. Someone equated it to me as like, it's like giving birth. It sucks during the process. And then six months later you forget how bad it sucked and then you try to do it again.

Do you had Lena Dunham, right, the opening for your book or whatever was it? The forward. The forward. Can you tell me how that happened? Because I feel like this is like such a, you have two fun. Like I hustle in ways that I think feel normal to you, but would not be normal to other people. So I wanted someone to write the forward of my book that had endo. Even though my book was not about endometriosis, I felt like it was a powerful part of my story.

And so I thought, Whoopi Goldberg, Lena Dunham. I thought of the bigger names with Endo. And I wanted to reach out to her. And so I found, I looked in the back of her book, her acknowledgments. I think her agent, someone was in there that she thanked. Okay. And then I looked for that person's email address. And then I emailed my editor and I said, I found this name.

I want to, could you confirm that this is the right email address for this person? Because I figure editors have a lot of people's email addresses. And so she said, yeah, here's. this is right. She was like, you can ask, but there's probably like a zero chance. And she'll say yes. I'm like, yeah, no shit. There's a zero chance. But if I don't try, it's less than zero, right? So I sent her an email and asked her. Well, I sent her agent an email. And I said, this is what's happening. And said, would she be interested in writing? I even said, maybe it's not the forward. Maybe it's including a recipe or doing some sort of involvement with the book.

So she came back and she originally, she said... What if you do is the subject line? Do you remember? I think I just put like media request. Okay. Lena Dunham or something. Okay. Not just like, hey.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing. I always tried to get to the point in the first. So these are like short, quick emails. Yeah, this one. Do you try to like establish that I'm important to you should? should pay attention to this? The first line of the email, I say exactly what I want. Okay. So I say, I am writing a book I'd love for Lena to be included. Or if I'm interviewed, if I go to interview,

if I want to interview someone, I'll email them say, I'd love to have you on my podcast. And then you'll go and then I get into it. Because I think me personally, when someone sends me an email and what they're trying to do, let's say is get on my podcast or have me write an endorsement and they spend three paragraphs explaining something. I'm just like, just tell me what you want from the beginning. And then this makes it a much quicker transaction. Yep. So, yeah, so I sent that email.

She said that she would be interested. Wait, because I've done this. My editor was like, you know who would be great at writing a forward for your book? Kristen Bell and Dak Shepard. And I was like, yeah, that will be great. Do you know them? And she's like, no, no, I believe in you. Like, you have the context.

And so I tried to like hustle down a celebrity to write the board of my book. And I couldn't do it. It's hard. Even if I had like publicists, I emailed publicist. I emailed managers. It is the whole thing. It is hard. They get so many requests of their time and energy.

So I think I'm good at writing emails. Well, what did you share your personal story? Couldn't get out of bed, et cetera, et cetera in that email? Like were you heartstring tugging or what were you? No, I don't even remember what I wrote. I mean, the crazy thing was, is after I wrote that email, she agreed to it. And then this is very public. So I'm not not public of our relationship.

But what happened to Lena is very public. So I'm not, you know, gossiping. But she then her agent wrote me back and she said she's actually now not going to be able to do it because her endometriosis is so bad. She's pulling out of girls promotion. And I'm so sorry. And I just wrote back, I'm so sorry if she ever needs any help with foods. stuff. I'd be happy to help her. And thinking, again, zero chance, she would say yes. And then she, and then Lena rode back and said, yeah, actually, I would like some help. Because I bet she was just

like at the end of her rope at that point. And so did you help her with her diet? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, she, Lena has such severe endos she ended up getting a hysterectomy and has a lot of issues. But I don't know. I just, and I think to just sending that email. I just, I had no ulterior motives. At that point, she wasn't. Like you weren't like, oh, I'll help her and then maybe she'll be. No, because to me it was like she's out. But I also don't want this woman to suffer.

Right. So I didn't think anything about that. I just thought, this person needs help. And we're, so then we emailed and then she ended up writing to me months later and said, if it's not too late, I love to contribute. Wow. And then that's when I asked her to write the forward. And was your editor?

They were very happy. And I think also even talking about it on this podcast, it makes me feel uncomfortable, I didn't capitalize on that relationship. I've never capitalized on any of the celebrities that I've worked for or known. Well, that seems to be like a common theme is that somehow innately you just view people as people. And then that has helped in your life. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

Because anytime that something came out was like using her name, you even wrote something and you used her name and I asked you to change it. Yeah. And because I just and I even. Because as an editor, like if I put Lena Dunham in the title, I'm going to get double the clicks. Exactly. But from me, I didn't want her to feel like I was using her. So I remember I sent her like 10 apology emails during. But she, I mean, she understands.

And also like she, you know if you're a celebrity and you're. write a forward for a book? Like, you know that's sort of what you're getting. I know. I just felt uneasy about it. Well, it worked out well. Yeah. Do you guys still talk? I occasionally, she'll send me an email or I'll send her an email, but we don't. Is she just like us? I think she is, yeah. I do. I like, I still love, I, us weekly and people are like my two guilty pleasure trades. And I love them. And I do love the stars. They're just like us. Because I, But mostly because when they aren't wearing makeup, and I'm like, oh, they actually do look like me. Yeah, totally.

And then I feel really good about myself. Although she's done amazing things, I think, for being like, this is what a real body looks like. Oh, absolutely. Stuff like that, which I think is amazing. Okay. I'm going to ask you a few questions that I only ask everybody. And we'll see how you, you actually list my podcast. I do.

I do. I don't know if there are questions. Sometimes I do, you do mix it up. I mix it up and I also like it's ostensibly quick fire, but then I always have like four to five follow-up questions. Okay. All right. I'm ready. Okay.

So let's start with what's one purchase that you've made that's made your life healthier or happier? I thought about this one. It's a big one. I'm going to have to say a plane ticket to Charleston because I moved here. Because you moved here. And it's changed everything. Everything. And I mean.

You were in Chicago. I was in Chicago for 18 years. And I mean, I mean, obviously I could say my foam roller or whatever, but I think that it has had a huge impact on my life. I don't think I could have written my book in Chicago. Really? Why? Because it's 40, negative 45 degrees.

And I just, my shoulders were up to my ears at all times because I was cold and stressed. And I just feel like, I just feel more loose and relaxed now. I didn't. So I really waver between being like where we live affects our psyche. in 8 million ways and being feeling like I'm trying to convince myself I could be living a different life if I would just move. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And that is an excuse or something. Well, and there's the whole thing of like wherever you go, there you are, whatever. I mean, listen, I brought all of my insecurities with me. I'm not saying I've dropped those, but it just felt, I just think after living in a place for 18 years, it just felt new and good and different. warm and like I can't imagine Chicago is one of my favorite cities in the world, but I can't imagine raising my son there. Do you think you're in Charleston long term? I mean, I would like to stay here forever. I mean, my goal is to have a place in New Mexico and a place here. That would be the goal.

I've never been to New Mexico. My dad keeps telling me I need to go. It's like you're, it's like your state, I feel like. I don't, I'm not great at desert. Because I like really like lush and green, but I also don't like rain. Yeah, but I think that there's, I mean, no, you. I need to go. Yeah. You would love it there. Maybe I'll see if I can do a book tour stop.

Yes. Yes. Okay. What's one really big mistake you've made in your life and what's something you really got right? I don't know. The regret mistake thing, I kind of, I mean, I've done like really dumb things, like C-C'd someone on an email that wasn't supposed to be on it and said like a horrible thing. I've done that too.

Which is like something that makes you want to throw up thinking about it. At my first job, we had like AIM at the office. Oh, God. I messaged somebody bad stuff about them on AIM. And then I, he confronted me about it because he was like a grown up. And then I cried. Like I just sat. I just remember sitting in the conference room crying and.

I literally want to throw up right now thinking about that experience for you. Yeah, it's the worst. I mean, it did really teach me. I don't put anything in email or like even that one time I was like, I'll call you. Like I don't even put shit in text. Yeah. But so I think, I mean, I've made like dumb, dumb mistakes like that. But I just, I don't know. I think that I have this little like weird. It's not actual possible. But like I never want to go back in time. Because like every single little tiny mistake I made, even if. If it was a huge one or a little one, it got me to where I am. So people say this often. And I think it works if you're totally happy where you are. But I know a number of people. And I waver in and out myself of being like, is this where I want to be? And if I'd done this thing differently, would I be in a different place right now?

You know? And I have a number of friends who really feel like that, who feel like they could be over here if they had just done one thing different. or something. Yeah. And I mean, I guess maybe if I hadn't gone to school for graphic design and became a dentist, I mean, I don't, or maybe if I decided to stay in paper goods, I could have a mega big company right now, but also that you have enough. I do. I do. I mean, I guess I just don't, there are mistakes I've made in my life, like dumb email things or saying something to a friend that I regret, but I just feel like I just don't think about. I just don't dwell on those things. And is that because like this is like you wouldn't choose to be anywhere else than where you are in

your life right now? I guess I just am in my life. So what is I guess I just don't see the point and dwelling on something else. Yeah. I mean, I do think I do think about sometimes if, you know, I dated, I mean, dated loose because I was so young, but I was very atrored. attracted to trash men before. And I think that if I was on again, off again with this horrible person for like four years before I met Dan, I think that if I hadn't met Dan and saw how great someone could be, I think that I'd probably be in a terrible relationship. So is that the thing you got right? I mean, I've got a lot of things right. Like let's get like a tap. What are three things you got right in your life, do you think? I think that I think changing.

my diet was right. I mean, that has changed my entire life, not just physically, but my career. I think meeting Dan, but not just because like, oh, I met a man, but because seeing his parents and seeing what is possible for love

that you can have that type of relationship. Like, I didn't think that was possible. So witnessing, I guess, someone as caring and loving and making me feel like I deserve that, that's kind of a big deal. And then I think I got right choosing and being around the friends I have. Like I, it makes me emotional. And every single day, I think, I am so fucking lucky to have the friends I have. Like, I have this, like, huge group of supportive women in my life. And I know there's a lot of people that don't have that same thing. Yeah. So how do you do that?

You mean make friends? friends with people that inspire you and excite you and see you and are, I think a lot of people feel like they have people they can like call up on a Thursday night and go see a movie with or go to a bar with, but they're not friends that would make them want to cry when they're talking about like their circle of women, you know? So how have you cultivated that? I think that well, I'll just like cold email someone. Oh yeah, that's the story. That was the second story I wanted you to talk because I love it. So you have your, give her a shout out.

Go ahead. Oh, sun woven, Aaron Barrett. At sun woven. At sun woven. On Instagram. If you're listening, I'd like a jacket. They're so beautiful. You saw, tell the story of how you met her.

Oh, I saw her in a magazine. I thought she looked and I saw that she lived in Charleston. And you just thought she looked cool. And I thought she looked, I thought that she looked creative and not necessarily even cool. I'm like, this is someone that is. doing something that is exciting to her. And I think I don't care if someone is cool or in a magazine. I am drawn to people that are excited about doing stuff. And that could be having a dog walking business. I don't really care if it's even on Instagram or famous or cool. I just want to be

surrounded by people that are passionate about what they're doing. And I saw her. I'm like, she looks like she's really into what she's doing. I want to meet that person. So what did you do? I emailed her. I said we should. How did you get her email? On her website. You see you went to her business website and you were, you found her email and what did that email look like since apparently you're the queen's cold email to change your life. I just, I don't remember. I said something like we both live in Charleston and it looks like you're doing creative stuff and we should have dinner sometime. I feel like when you told me this story, you like emailed her and you were like, I think we should be friends.

Well, I did. That's along the lines of what I said. And then you did and you guys just like clicked. Yeah, we met. We had a great time together and we became friends. And I, a lot of my friends in Charleston, like my other friend, Melissa, one collective. Shout out.

She also has a new lighting company called Riloh that's coming out. Same thing. I reached out to her and I said, I'm actually writing a cookbook. Your stuff is awesome. Could, like, I see if you have any props or my cookbook or something and we should just hang out and have a drink together. So here's, would you say that it's all very, I think a lot of people maybe are friends with the people they met in high school or the people they sat next to in a college class or stuff

like that, but your friends seem like they're very intentional and almost curated. Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that when I moved to Charleston, I had to start thinking about how do I meet a friend? Because you're not, I'm not going to a job. But I don't know that, I don't know if they're necessarily, I think they're curated by the places I go to or the people that I'm meeting through someone else. Like in Chicago, I mean, I had friends that ranged from someone that worked at a bar to someone that was a fashion designer to, I mean, I've never really, I guess, cared about what they do. No, I just mean, like, versus it being an accident at your friend person. Oh, yeah. I know. But I mean, I think I'm just telling you the case. were because you were talking about how like you just cold email people but I think I mean a lot of my friends are like like one of my a lot of my friends are a friend of a friend that are like oh Jessica just moved to Charleston you should meet this person or if I'm going to Chicago or I don't know I think it's friends of friends too what did your endometriosis when that was bad did that was

that was that hard of any was it hard of my friendships yeah in the same way like we Because I think also something I'm coming to in my old age is that, like, in the same way, you should put effort into your relationship to be a good wife or partner or anything. You should put effort into your friendships. And I think. I think that I think after I changed my diet, I know I became a nicer person just because I was in pain all the time. And I don't, I don't think I realized how that was making me maybe a little bit not as nice to people. I don't think I was outright rude, but I think I've, I don't know, I think I've become a nicer person because I'm not in pain. I don't really know if it affected my relationships because I'm the type of person where it's like, you invite me to a birthday party.

Even if I don't really know you, I'll probably go because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings on their birthday. So I would, like, I remember this one bowling party of this guy that I like barely knew. And like there were three people that showed up. and I was one of them. And I just remember that I was just like, I didn't feel good. I had to drive, get on two buses to get there. But I was like, I'm so going to go to this fucking birthday party because I never want anyone to feel hurt on their birthday.

So I think I just have a lot of empathy, I guess. So I think I tried to not let my illness affect my friendships. Have you ever been somewhere in the world where you're like, these people really got it right in terms of health or happening? And if so, where was it? I mean, it's so boozy sounding. But I mean, whenever I've gone to Paris, really? Because they seem like they like being kind of grumpy.

Yeah, but that doesn't, I mean, I just think that, I don't know, I think I just have felt, I don't know, I just like the vibe there of the people. What do you think, what specifically do you think they got right in terms of health? I just, I mean, I don't know if it's health necessarily, but I think it's just a sense of ownership of like, I'm walking outside without any makeup on. And I look cute with this weird hat that I don't know. Like, even when I am there, all of a sudden I feel like I can wear anything and just be a little bit cooler. And I don't know. And I also think, I think Charleston, I mean, even though it's like the land of butter and grits and cheese, I mean, I think people here,

like you see people walking the big bridge every day and just riding their bikes. And I don't know. But I think you can be healthy and happy anywhere. But not Chicago. No, I was. But it was 18 years. Yeah, it's time to go. And Dan had said, he said, I feel like as an adult, you should live in more than one place. I agree with that.

And I had moved so much in my life that I was like, you choose where you want to go and let's just go. Yeah, I love that. I also love the idea that when I ask you about a place that's all you're happy, you pick a place where it's, health and happiness not like a lot of people are like oh there's like avocado toast here like smoothies and the first thing you picked was like a internal type of health and happiness like self-confidence I think that's really cool because I think like they're smoking a shit 10 of cigarettes but they are there is like a deep sense of self love I think on a different level and like yeah I think that confidence is the biggest part about being happy

yeah I'm working on that that's it's a hard one confidence is like I think I'm really good at the top layer of confidence where I'm like, I'm the shit. Here's why you should like read this thing I wrote or like why I'm worth your time in this way. But then the lower level of confidence where it's like the deep. Right. I'm working on that. The self talk confidence.

Yeah. The self talk confidence. Okay. What is the best way to spend 20 minutes every day to make your life better? Uh, I mean, it's something that I don't want to do. Okay. But I think it's it's moving your body in some way. At least I try to.

I mean, I know sometimes when I will look at myself, I'll think, well, if you actually embraced moving your body more, it might impact you a little bit more. But I, for me, it's just head. Like mentally. Mental moving my body. And that could be, you know, taking a walk, jumping on a trampoline, doing a foam rolling, or just like a YouTube video. Like, I do a lot of those. Just like I just randomly put yoga, 20 minutes, YouTube and whatever comes up. But yeah, I think just moving your body.

Are there any other wellness practices that you do to, like, contribute to your overall picture of, like, keeping your endo-filed and feeling good every day? Yeah, the first one is food. And the second one, I mean, it's truly for women with endo. Like, if you think about it, you're clenched and hunched and really also just kind of protecting this little middle area all the time that. You have to like stretch and sort of move your body because if not, you're all of the muscles and stuff that's even tightening more. So I think movement is huge stress management. Just taking out stuff that stresses me out, which that could mean friends that don't really connect or something. But yeah, food, man. It's food for me. Do you meditate?

I try. I know your meditation is, blah. like goals for me. And I try. I will go like three days in a row and then forget. It's a weird thing. It's like if I don't work out, I'm like, oh shit, got to work out. I know I got to do this. But meditation, I actually just forget. Well, they say it takes like, what, 30 days or something? It's like 28 days to form a habit. Yeah. So I wonder if you did it for that one. Also, the thing that made the biggest difference for me in my meditation was to tell myself that there's no, you can't ever do it wrong. So like when I sit there and I'm doing it, I'm probably like doing it poorly most of the time. And my mind is wandering most of the time.

But I'm like, that was a good meditation. If you just sat there for 20 minutes and I think being able to. Yeah. No. And listen, this I do this app called like, it's it Tava? I don't know. It's through the Poncha karma that I did in the Art of Living Institute. The guy that started that place, there's an app that a lot of.

his meditations are on. So it's just like him talking or chanting. And I love when I do it. And I don't understand why I forget. I need to just put like post-it notes up everywhere that's like meditate today or put into my calendar. A meditation teacher I had once said that it's great if you can make a tiny area of your house like designated for it because then every time you pass by that or even it's just like a and hello on the floor. It's like you remember. What a great idea. Yeah, it's like a signal. Okay. Okay, so we're almost at a time, but I just want to talk briefly about your poncha karma

because I think that's fascinating. Yeah. What is a pancha karma? And why did you do it? And did you like it? And how did you think to do it? How did you decide? Well, Liz Moody, I don't, and Liz Moody told me to do it.

I don't really know if I can properly explain it because it's still a little bit. Because I think a poncha karma in the United States is also different than one in India because they do. But you can talk about like you're not advocating for all poncha carmas everywhere. No, no, no. I just like, I am my big thing I want to know. So it's an Indian sort of or it's an Ayurvedic cleanse essentially that you do. And some people say you can do it in a day. Some people say you need like.

Oh, I think I mean, I don't think you could. I think you need five days. There's spas, Iravitic spas that do it in like a day. My biggest question is how many enemas are involved? Okay, so, well, first of all, I did it because the last three years of my life, which we did not get into, which is great, were chaotic, to say the least. Like, very horrific, traumatic things happened in my family and even good stress of like a book coming out, adopting a baby, like just everything. And then this past summer, all of everything that happened finally hit me. And, you know, I had Dr. Aviva Rome on my podcast and she talked about how so many of her patients will finally go on vacation.

And that's when they get sick is because you just go, go, go, go, go. Go spinal syndrome. Yes. And then it all hits you. And so this summer, it all hit me in a way that I went into a severe depression where, I mean, I was, numb. Like, I wasn't even crying or, like, I was just staring straight ahead. And I just remember trying everything, like changing my diet more. And I finally, I don't even know why I told you, because I didn't tell anybody that this was happening, but I told you for some reason,

because we were just texting about something else. And you said, have you ever heard of a pancha karma? I was like, what is that? Whatever. And then I looked it up. I was like, I will try anything right now. And it's crazy. This Panchama place has a place in North Carolina, which is only five hours away from me, and then a place in India. And I'm like, this is a sign if it's this close. So yeah, so there was only one day of pooping, if that's what you're asking about the enemy thing. There was only one day of that. And that was the Varechina day. And in India, there's also a day of like throwing up, but apparently that's illegal. Did you hear? Oh, I like that.

But it wasn't the pooping, because I actually enjoy a colonic, but it was not the pooping that was the hardest on that day. It was that I had to stare out a window for eight hours. Yeah, you told me this. And I wasn't sure if you were being hyperbolic. No. You just meant that you like. No, bro. You're not allowed.

Do they literally sit you in front of the window and stare out? No books. No meditating, no sleeping, no writing, no anything. And they come check on you every hour. not to like make sure that you're doing it but to make sure that you're allowed okay it was what goes through your head i do i don't know if i'm that like we and we live in a society where people take myself included take their friends like the bathroom because you can't pee and be in our heads for that long i know i i gave up i gave them my books i really wasn't worried about my phone because

i enjoy not being on my phone but i gave them all my reading materials and i i gave them all my reading materials And I remember like hour five, I went to the bathroom and I found the toothbrush container that my toothbrush went in it. And I was like sitting there reading every single piece of it because I was like, I need something. But man, at the end of that day, I felt furious. I was like, F this place. I was starving. I just felt so angry. I had the worst headache I've ever had.

You know, my teacher, and I didn't believe it at the time, so he was like, you know, I think that all of your emotions are just coming out and they're trying to get released. And then I woke up the next day and I was, I was a new person. It was so weird. And I left that thing. And I'm not, listen, if you have severe depression, I am not saying a pancha karma. It can change it. Like, that's not. But for me personally, it changed everything.

because I and I and I think that it had a lot to do with that time of just being alone and finally feeling things right because if you don't feel things like you're never going to I don't think get over certain things when I think that's what our phones and all of that is a lot it's like ways to not feel things yeah absolutely and I I think that I I distract myself with work like I if I'm feeling a feeling I don't want to feel oh Let me work on this newsletter. Like I use my work as instead of people use alcohol or drugs, I definitely use my work. It's like a medicator.

Yeah, for sure. I do that too. I mean, I use that so that I don't have to feel my feelings of like lack of value or worth. I use my work to like get that there, which is interesting. But thank you. So thank you, Liz, Newdy, for telling me about Panchakarma because it, I don't know what I would have done. Yeah. Well, I think it also is a great gift we can give ourselves even to, if there's any

way we can race that. Any way we can just like remove ourselves from our circumstances, however briefly that is and give ourselves the time to be in our own heads and be in our own bodies and get in touch with how do I really feel? What do I really need? What do I really want? And maybe that's looking out a window for three hours. Yeah. And then booking an appointment with a therapist. I used to say my favorite. So I spent years traveling around the world by myself and people would always be like, oh my gosh, did change your life. Like whatever. And I said 100% it did. But what changed my life wasn't like being in Buenos Aires or being in Rio. It was taking the like 48 hour bus ride between Buenos Aires and Rio where I just sat there for because we didn't have like phones or

yeah. Right. You're not old dude. But I didn't have an iPhone or anything like that. So I just sit there on the bus for hours and hours and hours and hours by myself and it completely changed my perspective on almost everything. Yeah. And can we just like end with this note is because you know that it bothers me that like we're talking about like a punch of karma and traveling the world. But let's just like figure out what you can do. And again, like that might just be being alone for 20 minutes in your bathroom. Like not all of us can afford to do these things. Yeah.

Although I really wish you saw how I traveled the world. It was not in styles. It was pretty gnarly. I actually like look back on that time now and I'm so jealous of that person who could like sleep in a $5 a night hostel room and now I'm such a princess and I like have insomnia blah blah blah and I'm just like so jealous

that I was so chill then but working on it also I'm old now. You're not, okay, you're not allowed to say that anymore please. Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, because I feel like that's my number one thing is I never say I'm old. I've never uttered that word in my life.

All right, I'll take that. Because I think it's like then we start to feel it. It's like for meaning a message to yourself. And I'm older than everybody. All right. No, I like that. Okay. Well, I'm youthful and vivacious and beautiful and very rich. Great. There's you go. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to have to do another episode, I think, soon because I feel like I have so much more to talk to her about. So definitely stay tuned for that. And if you love this episode, I know you're like, why, you're going to say it again. I am. I'm going to say it again because reviewing and rating the podcast makes a big difference.

So if you liked this episode, subscribe to the podcast, first of all, if you're not subscribed, and also leave a rating and review on iTunes or wherever you listen. It helps other people find the podcast. It makes me deeply grateful and appreciative. And then come over to Instagram and share your thoughts, share what you like, share what you didn't like. I'm at Liz Moody. Jess is at Jessica Mernan.

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