The Liz Moody Podcast - Jordan Younger—The Best Treatments For Lyme Disease, Anxiety & Eczema, The Impact of Chronic Illness On Relationships, and Why It’s A “Gift To Get Sick”

Episode Date: February 19, 2020

Jordan Younger is the incredible woman behind The Balanced Blonde: Soul on Fire Podcast, thebalancedblonde.com, and @thebalancedblonde Instagram account. She formerly made media waves with her hit book, Breaking Vegan, and now inspires thousands with her Lyme disease journey and her SOS-free lifestyle. In this vulnerable, intimate episode, Jordan talks about: Her teeth extraction and how that led to her hitting rock bottom with her Lyme The terrifying night that almost landed her in the hospital Her decision to take a big chunk of time completely off from her business—and how she dealt with the fear that came with it Her childhood mold exposure and how it led to her succumbing to scarlet fever, pneumonia, and more How her chronic illness has impacted her relationship with her husband How to best communicate about chronic illness with a partner The treatments she’s tried for her Lyme disease (including how she decides what’s worth going for) The top 3 things that have made a difference in her overall health What her Ayahuasca journey was like, and whom she’d recommend it to & for what types of issues How she pays for all of her treatments The one practice that made the biggest difference in her acne and eczema The one practice that made the biggest difference in her anxiety and insomnia Why she thinks it was a “gift to get sick” And so much more! Jordan and I did a podcast swap for this episode, so head over to The Balanced Blonde: Soul on Fire to listen to HER interview ME. We’d both of course love to hear your thoughts and reactions to this episode, so please tag her (@thebalancedblonde) and me (@lizmoody) so we can continue the conversation over there. Enjoy! PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy on Amazon or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! I have a brand new sponsor for this week’s pod that I’m SO excited to share with you—Califia Farms. While they’re new to the pod, they’re not actually new to my life—I’ve been using Califia for years, and actually call them out as a brand I love in my cookbook. And now they’re part of the podcast fam, so welcome Califia! I’m a huge fan of all of Califia’s non-dairy products, but I especially love their non-dairy creamer (the one in the carton). I’m a huge fan of making caffeine-free lattes, with super weird flavors like Birthday Cake, Carrot Cake, and Churros, and I love using the Califia almondmilk creamer as the base for that, since it makes it super creamy and delicious. It’s also of course great in coffee or tea! You can find Califia Farms in pretty much any grocery store, or you can get 20% off online orders at califiafarms.com using the code “healthiertogether20.” If you need help deciding what to buy, hit me up on Instagram—I have lots of thoughts! I can’t wait to hear what you think! This episode is also sponsored by Simple Mills, a company that makes some of the best grain free snacks and baking mixes you can buy. On this week’s episode, I shared how much I love healthy donuts with their grain free vanilla cake and cupcake baking mix and healthy frostings, but honestly, you can’t go wrong with any of their products! You can get a whopping 20% off your order on SimpleMills.com by using the code “heathiertogether20” when you check out. You can also find Simple Mills at Publix and Whole Foods nationwide. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthyer Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a longtime journalist and cookbook author living in Brooklyn, New York with my very cute husband and even cuter cat. I am so excited about today's episode, which feels like a long time coming. I did a podcast swap with the amazing Jordan Younger, who is the host of the balanced blonde Soul on Fire podcast. And I have known Jordan for years, and I've been so impressed in that time by her strength, and her approach to health and life.

And she burst onto the scene ages ago with her first book, Breaking Vegan, which was about her leaving her vegan lifestyle. Although, interestingly, she's actually back to a plant-based diet now, which we talk about in this episode. A few years ago, Jordan was diagnosed with Lyme disease, and since then, that's been the main focus of her healing journey. I consider Jordan to be like the Tim Ferriss or Dave Asprey of women in the wellness world because she's willing to act as like a human guinea pig and try basically every known treatment to see what's actually useful.

In this episode, we talk about how she decides what to try from water fasting to infrared saunas to ayahuasca, and then we also talk about what actually works. So we talk about the things, the top three things that made the biggest difference in her lime, as well as her skin. She struggled with acne and eczema, her anxiety and her insomnia. We also talk about the rock bottom point of her health journey, which was this great, crazy night. It made me nervous even just to hear about it. She almost ended up in the hospital. It's just such a gnarly experience. And I don't know. I thought it was very brave and strong and open for her to even be willing to

revisit that and share that with us. And I was also really interested in how her health journey has impacted her relationship. Jordan recently got married and the entire time that she was dating her now husband, Jonathan, she was dealing with pretty serious health issues. On Instagram, Jonathan seems like such a perfect, loving, understanding partner. And I was like, okay, give me the dirt here. Like, how do you guys make this work with Jordan? She has to, you know, put herself first so much and take care of her healing in all of these ways. And I really wanted to know how that impacted their relationship dynamic. So we get into that a lot. And I really liked a lot of what Jordan had to say. And I also loved her thoughts on business. She's built this incredible, successful,

lucrative brand, but she also had the guts to completely step away from it for a number of months to focus on her healing. So I was really interested in that as well. There's one thing that Jordan said at the end of our chat that I've been thinking about a ton since we recorded. She said it was a gift to get sick. It reconnected me to who I am and what's actually important to me. You all know that I'm really working on getting to that place with my own anxiety, particularly the time in England when my agoraphobia was at its worst and I just feel like I, I don't know, missed these years of my life and I missed all of these opportunities in that time. And I, I don't know, her words and her thoughts and how much she appreciates her time and her friendships and her life now really,

really struck me. And I'm not sure that I'm quite to the place where I view my anxiety is a gift, but I'm getting there and conversations like this really help me. And I hope that they help you too. As I mentioned, this was a podcast swap, which means that Jordan interviewed me for her amazing podcast as well. So definitely go listen to that one. We recorded the two conversations back to back so they really feel like a pair. To celebrate the swap, we're also doing a little giveaway. Jordan and I both love giveaways. It's just fun to be able to give back to all of you wonderful people in the community. So after you listen to both episodes, if you want to do an honest rating and review on both podcasts, you'll be entered to win one of $200 Amazon gift cards,

which you can use to buy any of the amazing wellness products that we mentioned in these episodes, or really whatever you want, like toilet paper, peanut butter, the world is your oyster. To enter, just listen, do the rating review on both pods and then go to my feed on Insta. I'm at Liz Moody and comment done on the quote post about the podcast. We both so appreciate your reviews. Doing reviews and sharing the episodes with friends are 100% the best way to support podcasts that you love. I actually went through and reviewed a bunch of my favorite podcasts the other day just to give back to those shows that made my daily life so much better. And it just, you feel good after.

It makes such a big difference. You can find Jordan on Insta at the Balance Blonde and her amazing blog, The Balance Blonde.com has tons of recipes, health tips, and more. And of course, her podcast is The Balance Blonde's soul on fire. So go listen to our swap and then screenshot and tag us both with your thoughts, reactions, feelings. we love continuing the conversation over on Instagram. I love you all and I think you are going to love this episode. So without further ado, here is Jordan Younger. All right, Jordan.

I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. We just recorded me on your podcast. So this is fun. We're getting like a little yin-yang conversation, I feel like. We are. It's perfect. And we're in your lovely house where your cat won't cuddle me. But he wants to be in the same room with you,

which is definitely a compliment because if he doesn't like somebody or if he doesn't like feel their energy, he'll just stay in the other room. Really? Mm-hmm. But of course he likes you. Okay. I'm like looking at him longing, and like, he's just kind of cuddle me. He's just sleeping in the crevice of the couch.

He's a favorite spot. He's beautiful. Thank you. So with most people, I actually like to start with their health journey, like going from the beginning to the end. But I kind of want to start right now for you. and then we'll go backwards because I feel like you're, we're talking about this a little bit on your podcast,

but I feel like you're having like a renaissance. You're like coming to life again after years of being in hibernation. So I want to know how you're feeling right now. Thank you for asking that. Yeah, I am coming back to life and it feels really good. I always get very fearful because my health has ebbed and flowed for the last couple years and I'll have a couple really good weeks at times and I'll be so excited. and I'll just be telling everybody I'm healthy, I'm not sick anymore.

It's just amazing feeling. And then I will have a whole other flow where I'm in bed and it's super frustrating. So I've been feeling a lot better for about a month. And there's a few things I can attribute it to. Okay, tell us. But I'm still terrified because, well, I like to only speak good things into existence. Yeah. And it feels a bit different this time in a good way.

way. So we'll see. I think that it'll continue on a good path. But a couple of things I can attribute it to are that I took about four months off of work, podcasting, blogging, events, emails, just all the things that we do. And was that like a high, like you literally didn't answer an email during that time? No, it's not really that. I mean, I wish I could say yes, for sure not. I definitely didn't answer them for about two months, which was during our wedding. honeymoon and then the holidays. That's legit. That's like a long time to disconnect for.

I know. People who were trying to get in touch were shocked because they're like, no, wait, this is a really good opportunity. I didn't see any of this until way later, which needed to happen for me. But technically when I take time off, I'm still like, and you're probably like this too. I'm like writing fiction ideas and still having a lot of fun, but it's just so much less pressure. So I kind of reached a point in August. So now here we are in January, where I hit this major rock bottom again. I had surgery on my jaw. They found 15 different strains of lime in my mouth

and including other things like strep and mono, which we were just talking about. I didn't know that this stuff like manifested in your mouth. Well, a lot of people wouldn't know that. I didn't know that either until I started having this excruciating jaw pain back like March. And so I went down this whole journey of figuring out what's going on, found out that Lyme can definitely get trapped in your mouth if you've had teeth extracted. So if you've had your wisdom teeth out, which I had all four of my wisdom teeth out in high school. And if it doesn't heal properly, which happens quite often apparently,

than different bacteria and viruses can get trapped in there. So what did they do in the oral surgery? So they went into those wisdom teeth sites, and they used ozone, which is really interesting because I get ozone in my blood for Lyme and lots of different things. So they use this little tiny, like, dentist device that blows ozone into your gums, and then they kind of scrape it out,

which is, you know, painful, but you're asleep, and they remove it to the best of their ability, and then they seal it up. And then you woke up and you were like, I'm better. This is going to be so great. Well, I was hoping so, but people told me, too, like the detox is going to be really intense because it's a lot of toxins that are coming out and just be, you know, be cautious because those of us who do have Lyme and other chronic illnesses, the detox can be so intense. So I was prepared for that, but I wasn't prepared for what happened from there.

And I know that you'll understand this because there was this crazy thing that happened in the middle of the night where I accidentally combined pain medication that I was on after the surgery with THC and chlera, which chlorilla binds to toxins. I took way too much chlorella. But the main thing was the THC and the pain medication. So I had this like crazy out of body experience in the middle. the night where I thought I was dying, my organs were shutting down, which then turned into a very severe panic attack. And I have had multiple flashbacks to that. It was the worst night in my life. And that was in August. So I just hit this huge rock bottom of, I saw my life flash before my eyes. I thought I was dying. And I don't say that in a dramatic way. Like I, my organs were shutting down.

I combined a fatal amount of medications together accidentally, and it was terrifying. Did you? I know Jonathan, like, found you in the bathroom or something, right? And then did you guys go to the hospital? Or what, how did that night progress? It's very strange. And we look back on this, what were we thinking? All of us? So my mom was here. She lives upstairs. And I was shouting for Jonathan in the bathroom because I went to the bathroom and I went to pee. and like all of my organ, it was like everything was locked and it was like, this sounds so strange and maybe TMI, but my bladder was like stuck. Like it wouldn't release anything. And I was, so I started immediately panicking because what a strange feeling. Like that should not happen. And that terrified me. And I was so disoriented because I had all this pain medication. I had been under anesthesia. I took a lot of THC, which is for me, I don't actually. take any THC ever. This was something that I thought was like going to just help me sleep because I really needed a lot of extra help to sleep. Took so much Clarella. So I was very, very out of it.

So I started like shouting for Jonathan to come in the bathroom and I started seeing that like blaring, red light of like, oh shit. Like things are about to get really bad panic wise. And he came in and I was like, I can't pee. I don't know what's going on. And he was, he was super disoriented too. from sleeping. He's like, what are you talking about? So he's like, just breathe. You're really out of it. Let's, you know, oh, you're fine. And then from there, it just got way worse because I stood up. It was totally blacking out and just had this insane fear that all of my organs were shutting down. And that's what it felt like. And it's really the only way to describe it because I've never felt that before. Yeah. And then I started feeling like I've done a lot of plant medicine journeys and different

things like that, which we can maybe get into, started feeling like I was on a plant medicine experience where I was having flashbacks to things that I've seen when I was doing ayahuasca and I wasn't on this planet and I wasn't in my body. It was very, very, very scary. So that was my rock bottom that night and then the next morning. And then that weekend, I just had to come to terms with a lot of things that I'm still pushing myself really hard in a lot of different ways. And at the time, I was still podcasting every week. And I wasn't enjoying it. Unfortunately, at that time, I was having these amazing guests on and friends and a lot of the same guests that you've had on, just great, great people, mostly in the wellness space. But I couldn't concentrate on what they

were saying. My brain fog was so intense. When I would listen to the episodes back, I didn't feel good about them because I had no energy. So to even talk, like, it didn't sound like my voice. And it was just this terrible position to be in. So I finally decided to take that time off. And were you nervous at all that like, you know, you've built your career off of having a certain audience and having this reliability and having these brand partnerships and all that kind of stuff. Were you nervous that that would go away? very, very nervous. That's probably what kept me from doing it for so long, because it was probably a solid two years of considering taking time off, being told that it would be good for me to

take time off, being told by psychics and mediums and healers in my life and friends and family. And I was just so rigidly tied to the identity of myself as the balanced blonde and also of, of course. I mean, this is my job. So I was worried about the brand partnerships and what will it be like to take all this time off and what if they don't want to work together again? Yeah. When I come back to podcasting. It's just a lot of like scarcity based thinking. But it's hard for me too. Like I, this is, so I left my full-time job in February. And now it is like, oh, when I take a vacation, it's not a paid vacation. It's just time that I'm not making money, you know, versus other time when I could be making money. Yeah. And it's a hard thing, I think, to be like, oh, I'm just going to take a bunch

a time where I'm not making money. It's really hard. Yeah. And we had our wedding coming up and I basically just had to decide, do I want to be present for our wedding and like be part of this planning process with Jonathan because I have such limited energy so I can spend my energy working and healing or I can spend my energy focusing on this special time in our life that will never get back in healing with this limited reserve. So I took time off and it gave me everything I could have imagined and more just with

the energy that I've gained and the clarity that I've gained and we got married. We went on our honeymoon in Bali and I had a lot of time in Bali to just reflect on how I spend my time where I use my energy, what I need to do to keep healing. And I started doing those things, kept doing those things, and it's really brought me to a new space of just feeling a lot better. What did you spend your energy on that you stopped spending your energy on as a result of your reflection? Well, I realized that every time I had taken, like, miniature breaks, like I had tried to take time off before, so I would take off a month and go do a water fast and some of these things that I've done for healing. I really wasn't working at all during that time either,

but I would put so much pressure on myself that, okay, when you get back from this break, hit the ground running, work 10 times harder. Yeah. And that's what I had always done. And it always undid all of this great stuff. So I decided no more of that. When I come back to work, I'm just going to not hit the ground running to the best of my ability and just kind of ease back into it.

And also just view everything as fun. And if it's not fun, don't do it. And I recognize that's definitely a luxury, but after doing this for seven years, I feel like I've gotten to a place where that's actually a choice that I can make. So doing this with you is fun. Doing what I did this morning, having the medical medium on the podcast is so fun. And all these things just give me life and make me happy. Add to your energy reserves instead of depleting them. Okay.

I have so many questions about your progression of, you know, making yourself feel good and when you felt really bad. But I want to talk first about Jonathan because you just got married. And I think there's always a really interesting dynamic in a relationship when one person has more needs than the other person. I have that relationship dynamic. And my own relationship with Zach where he doesn't have anxiety. And so sometimes I need to leave a party. And he has preferences. I always say he has preferences, but I have needs. And I think it's hard because it always feels like needs takes priority over preferences. And it's been a really complicated dynamic for us in our relationship.

So I'm curious, does Jonathan, how does that impact your relationship, you're having, you having chronic disease? Yeah, in a lot of ways. I love hearing you say that, that he has preferences and you have needs because that I want to show that to Jonathan and be like, look, we're not the only ones. And I know that that's common for those of us who do deal. with anything that's chronic, whether it be anxiety or a disease or anything else. So it's really interesting because Jonathan grew up in a family where his parents were never

sick and him and his brother were never really sick, aside from like the random cold or something, which they also really never got. They're just a very healthy family. Good person that babies with. Exactly. Amazing genes. So he really didn't have any experience with sickness at all where I grew up. I was always sick, like, whether it be with stomach issues, which I've had my whole life,

or I was kind of telling you before. You had scarlet fever? Yeah, I had scarlet fever. I had wipping cough. I didn't even know scarlet fever still existed. Well, exactly. Does it? Like, isn't that what Beth dies from in little women?

Yeah, it is. So you had what killed Beth in little women. Right. And that's crazy. Random cases of things like that. Same with whipping cough. Same with pneumonia. I mean, I know pneumonia is more common.

Did doctors know, like, why were you? Well, it was pretty much determined that there was mold in my third grade classroom. And now that I'm older and I know about different genetic mutations that I have, like the MTFHR gene, among others, it's really hard for my body to detox mold. So I think that that's why I got sicker than some of the other kids, but other kids were getting sick too. Then the other day, my dad told me that there was mold in the house that I grew up in and it was right under my bedroom. He told me this a week ago. Casually. Like, hey.

Yeah. He's like, well, you know, I mean, you've been sick because of the mold in our house on Will Hagen Park Lane. We don't live there anymore. And I was like, what do you mean? And that was the first time that I had ever heard that. Oh, my gosh. And even my mom was like, we didn't know. Why didn't you ever say this to us before?

It was so funny. So there I was again as a child with mold. So you grew up like in like sort of having sickness be a comment. in part of your life, but Jonathan did not. Exactly. So it was a lot for him to get used to that part of it. But I think because he's just, he's a very patient person, he has a lot of qualities that I don't have. He's very patient, very selfless. He is a nurturer and he likes to take care of the people around him. And he always says one of the things that makes him the happiest is doing things that make me happy. Sex is that too for sure. And it is,

is 100% true, but also sometimes, like, he gets really, like, you posted once about the fact that you, like, booked an early morning flight and then you were like, I can't do this anymore. And I'm the same. I really don't like, I won't sleep the night before if I have like a really early morning flight. And Zach accommodates it. But like, I always feel like he, like wishes in a way that he could just like take an early morning flight, you know? Right.

And I'm totally with you. We have had a lot of conflicts between us. and it's been something to really learn too. Does he like always get it? Or does he ever just think you're sort of putting your wish, like you're just like being selfish? He doesn't always get it for sure. Like I'm trying to think of examples.

There are a lot of examples. But I'm just like you. I mean, if we're at a friend's house or at a party, he will see the look on my face when I'm ready to go. And it becomes this for me, it's like we have to go right this second. But sometimes we're in a situation. where I can't really say that because, you know, I don't want to offend other people, but I need him to know. Yeah. And it's like, why aren't you reading my mind? And this just happened the other night. And he doesn't always get it, but he gets it because it's me and he's used to that about me. But there are so many other things where I was just reminding him of this the other day. I had surgery on my uterus last summer. I had a fibroid and I basically had my entire abdomen cut open.

not that different from a C-section, very painful. And basically, 48 hours later, so I couldn't sit up on my own. He was helping me do everything. He had this outburst about me not helping him with the dishes. And this was just like a day and a half after the surgery. He knew that I couldn't walk. So we had this whole thing of clearly he felt like it wasn't really about the dishes. He felt like his needs weren't being met and he wasn't getting the attention and love that he deserved and he got really overwhelmed about the whole thing.

So we'll have things happen like that where it makes me realize that he's a very sensitive emotional being. And ultimately with him, it's just he needs the love and attention and I'm not always able to give it because not in the quantities that he deserves because I can get so high. hyper-focused on myself. And it's like, my bedtime and this and that. And I have to take a bath every night. And I try not to make it a selfish thing. It's not what it is. These are things that I have to do in order to heal and to feel good. And I've had all of these moments where I felt like because of being sick and because of who I am and even just personality traits, I shouldn't be with anyone. And that was a limiting belief that I had for a long time because I don't want to make anybody feel like I'm putting myself first, but I have to put myself first in order to be

healthy and well. So now that I'm healing, I'm excited for him to experience having a wife that can actually help out with a lot more things and give him a lot more attention and maybe stay up later than I normally would. Do you try to, when you're feeling good, like, make up for the fact that he might pick up more slack when you're feeling? I asked Daniel Walker this too, because she'll have like whole months where she's bed bound. And I'm like, do you, is that an expectation in your relationship that you kind of go the other way when you're feeling good? Right. It's not an expectation from him, but it's something that I definitely try to do.

When I have the energy, which I call it spoons, I don't know if you've ever heard that terminology. It's like a chronic illness thing. When I have the spoons, I will clean the kitchen and I'll like be on my feet all day and do things that for other people, specifically for, him, our first nature. It's so easy for him. I shouldn't say that, but it's so much easier. And so I'll do that and he'll be blown away and so happy because it doesn't happen every day. But what I do is like, I know what I can give and I know the spoons I have and the spoons that I don't. So I actually pay for our housekeepers to come every week. I don't expect him to contribute to that. And I don't want him to because he's doing his part every day. And I can't. And I would rather

give that energy to him and like love on him and cuddle him and kiss him. I want to be able to meet up, but we share money. So it's just like, we like are both paying for the housekeeper. I get that too. And it's like ultimately we're married. Everything is both of ours. But it's something that I feel energetically like I'm taking care of this. And so every Monday like we know these things that I'm kind of letting pile up are going to get taken care of. Yeah. Having a housekeeper come regularly has been the biggest change in my relationship. Honestly, it's like, it's such a small. I mean, it's definitely an investment, but like it's cheaper than couples therapy. For sure. It makes such a big difference in your relationship.

And think of time. I like to invest in my time. So what they're doing in an hour and a half and they're professionals, like at the couple that comes, like it would take me all day and think of all the things that I can get done during that time. Yeah, exactly. It makes Jonathan happy, which makes me happy. So I do try to make up for it. But to be honest, I haven't even had until recently. I haven't been able to even think about making up for it because I haven't had anything to give. It's just so interesting because the, like he sort of knew what he was a large part of your guys as courtship has been at a time where you've been sort of feeling your absolute worst. And I just, I've been sort of watching that happen and curious how.

it feels to fall in love with somebody as they're sort of falling apart, you know? Mm-hmm. I know. It's so interesting because we were friends for a few years. He trained me for a marathon. I had abundant energy. I was a very healthy person with symptoms that I didn't know were getting worse and worse and worse. But pretty much right when we started dating, which was exactly three years ago and a few weeks, I started, my health started to

planning. And it was probably six to eight months into our relationship when I just completely spiraled. And that's so early in a relationship. Oh, yeah. You know, that's when you still want to, like, cute and like kind of your best version of yourself. Right. Yeah. So for us, that's just the way that it was. So for me, I don't know anything different. I felt so supported by him. Were you nervous to, like, show him that side of yourself? Not really. Not to be vulnerable in that way in front of him or no? Because we had been such close friends for so long, we had already seen some of the deepest, darkest parts of each other and things about each other's personalities that we didn't necessarily love. For example, he's very moody and I'm very impatient. And these

are things that we so knew about each other as friends. We had traveled as friends. We would do a lot of races together. So we did a half marathon in Monterey and did that eight-hour drive together. And there's just a lot of things you learn about somebody as friends. So it was never hard for me to open up in that way about how I was feeling. It was more just trying to get him to understand it because he had never been sick. So his best friend and who he was living with at the time had a chronic illness too. He's healthy now, but he had years of being really sick and really unwell. So, yeah, ulcerative colitis. So he lost like 50 pounds and he was, yeah, it wasn't doing well at all. So I had to always remind Jonathan, like remember how sick he was. That's how I feel,

even if you can't really see it physically the way you could with him. And he just had a lot to learn. I mean, we all did. My parents did. It was not easy. And I'm seeing now that I'm knock on wood healing that our relationship, parts of it have been just really strange because like we weren't able to live as a normal couple. What parts have been strange? So I couldn't really do much. Like I missed weddings. I missed things that when you're too healthy people like you compromise, you go do these things that you might not totally want to do or I think I couldn't do any of that. So I couldn't be that kind of girlfriend or that kind of fiance or that kind of wife. And that's not who I am in my heart.

I want to give to the people that I love. I want it to be a really equal relationship. And we spent so much time at home in bed with Hudson, watching movies. And we love doing that kind of thing anyway. And I think that's one thing that really kept us afloat during that time when I couldn't do anything but that, but we're both very social people. So are you an extrovert or an introvert? Well, it's interesting because when I was sick, I was determined to believe that I was an introvert because I really didn't want to be around people at all. Now I realize, and I knew this when I was younger,

too, I'm an extrovert. I have introverted qualities and I love to be alone and my human design is a reflector, but I actually get energy from being with people. And if I'm alone for too long. You start to like lack that energy. Right. Exactly. And is he an extrovert as well? For sure. We're both very social. And so I guess the reason that I say strange is that we weren't able to really be very social as a couple. And now that I'm feeling better and it's the new decade. We're like making all these plans. And it's kind of funny because it's new for us as a couple, but it's not new for me or new for him on our own. And I maintained my friendships and he maintained his friendships. But we're just now able to do the things that we would have been doing all along.

That's so exciting. Yeah. So you said a few times that it was like about a process of making him understand that you were sick and sort of what your limitations were. Is there something that made that happen or that you could tell somebody who's trying to make their partner understand, especially an invisible illness, I think, like anxiety or parts of your illnesses, like that you can't easily see? What would you tell them? just to be open, I had someone telling me this past weekend a psychic that I was seeing that men don't know what you're thinking even when you want them to be reading your mind. So you need to be...

I love that a psychic told you that. I know. Somebody's like literally reading your mind told you that. Exactly. Which is just good advice no matter who you are. I mean, I think nobody knows what you're thinking. And I think we have so many problems in all of our relationships because we expect people to know what we're thinking. Exactly.

So being really open about how I feel and never expecting Jonathan to know that I'm in pain, even though I truly feel like I'm showing all the signs of it and my face is showing it. And even if I say I'm in a lot of pain, just kind of describing to him what that even means for me because he hasn't experienced it. Right. And honestly, the analogy of the spoons has helped us a lot because he understands now. so to such a deep degree, like if I say I don't have any spoons or I'm in the negative spoons, he's like, oh, okay, I get, I get it. Does everybody, for that analogy, does everybody start with the same amount of spoons? So people look at it in different ways.

So it's a chronic illness term because technically we would have less spoons than than all of the healthy people to begin with. Yeah. And once you run out, you run out. And when you're in their reserves, like, you need to build them back up for a couple of days. Okay. But say Jonathan and I both started with 10 spoons, his spoons would last much more than mine. And if we went to a workout together, maybe he'd be down to nine spoons after, but I would be done for the day.

Got it. So that's helped him a lot because he can ask me things like, do you have the spoons to come? Like it makes it more concrete. Right. And it probably makes it less about desire. Like it's less like you can want something as much as you possibly. can and not have the spoons to do it. Right. Totally. So it's like when it comes to like our cat Hudson, he likes to go play in the hallway. And one of us likes to go with him because you never know where he's

going to go or what he's going to do if we're not out there. So like last night, Jonathan said, do you have the spoons to go out there with Huddy so that I can take a shower? And I said, no, I don't have the spoons. So rather than him kind of feeling like I'm not helping out and he's not able to go take a shower while I'm already in bed, he understands I've used all my spoons. for the day. And that's taken us a long time to really come to that understanding. So that's one thing. And then I've taken him to doctor's appointments, which I think is really powerful because sometimes hearing a doctor who's treating you describing how you're feeling and describing all of your hormones that are out of balance and the way that they're adjusting your medications and different

things can mean something entirely different to your significant other than if you're just trying to explain it to them. And letting them feel part of the process, you know, I think, like, letting them into the whole world of it, I think is really nice. Right. Absolutely. And then with Jonathan, specifically, I just had to learn that he's going to look into it on, look into it on his own and learn on his own, because in the beginning, I, there's all these documentaries on Lyme disease where I was like, we have to watch these together and you need to educate yourself on it because neither of us really knew that much about Lyme disease. He knew nothing. And that didn't work for him because he felt that the documentaries were really sad and really disturbing.

And they kind of just scared him about what my future is. Yeah, somebody who loves so much is happiness. Right. So he had to do it on his own, which for him looked like Googling, like how to be a good boyfriend to somebody who has Lyme disease, which is so cute. That's so cute. He did that. And then he had to just learn in his own way. So those would be some tips.

You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. Hello, beautiful people. I have a brand new sponsor for this week's pod that I am so excited to share with you, Calafia Farms. While they are new to the pod, they're not actually new to my life. I have been using Califia for years, and I actually call them out as a brand that I love in my cookbook. And now they are part of the podcast fam. So welcome Calafia.

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He drinks enough for both of us, so he has the coffee covered. It's basically a non-dairy half and half, and the hazelnut apparently makes it taste like one of those fancy coffee drinks that you'd get out at a cafe, but way healthier and way more inexpensive. Anyway, I highly recommend the entire Calafia line. They're my go-to when I need a non-dairy milk or when I'm feeling super sophisticated and I want to eat my cereal in a bowl instead of straight from the package by the fistful. You know, it doesn't happen often, but it does happen. You can find them in pretty much any grocery store or you can get 20% off all online orders at caliphiafarms.com using the code healthier together 20. That is the name of this podcast, healthier together, and the number 20.

And if you need help deciding what to buy, definitely hit me up on Instagram. I have a lot of thoughts. As always, I have a lot of thoughts on everything, as you probably know by now. Anyway, I cannot wait to hear what you think. Let's get back to the episode. about somebody who feels like their partners, like, resentful of the, you know, like, why don't you just take the damn cat out to the hallway? Like, why can't you just go to my best friend's party? Right. Honestly, it's so hard because we have those days, too, where it's like, if something's

important enough, like, I will scrape myself off of the ground and be there for him because I, because it matters. And I think depending on the situation, I've learned that to be a good partner to him, even with everything I'm going through, to save spoon, save energy for him more than I was before. He really got me to understand, especially recently, that I wasn't doing that enough because I was very much in my own tunnel of healing and he gets it and he's supportive. And he had to kind of remind me, I don't think you're saving enough energy for me. I love the idea of like saving it.

Like you can not do some other thing maybe so that you can have that for your partner. Because he saw me going on walks with friends, doing podcast interviews before I took a break. I sometimes think that's true even like outside. Like I think in chronic illness, it's more pronounced. But like it is interesting how sometimes it feels like your partner gets like the left over you because you know that they're like going to love you and be there for you no matter what. And giving them the leftover you kind of sucks. Right. And completely healthy people have said the same thing.

So I realized that. And then the flip side of that would be, and this might not be popular advice, if you feel like you're with someone who really doesn't get it and really doesn't support the way that you are living your life and you have to live your life in order to heal, it might not be the right relationship. And that's, you know, something I thought about a lot too because with him, it has always worked out and he's been supportive and he's believed even stronger than I have that I'm going to heal on the days where I feel like this might be my life forever. But there are times when

ultimately he had to go to his best friend's wedding without me. And it was really hard for him. And I think for some people, that would have been a deal breaker. And I remember thinking, like, if he makes me feel like I absolutely have to go, I don't know if I can be with him. And I don't know if that means that he really, really gets it because I wouldn't fake this. no matter what. And ultimately, I mean, he was completely fine with it. He had to be at the end of the day. And that's one thing. And him and I, we had years under our belt already. I wouldn't have, you know, not been with him because of that. But I would have really seriously looked at the situation. Because I believe we have to be with people who support us. And that goes both ways. Like, I try to be the same way with him. And we're always learning. What do you think is like something that you bring to his life in a really awesome way? Gosh, well, I've definitely helped him open up emotionally. I'm a talker if there's anything going on or any feeling. Basically, I can read Jonathan's face like a book.

Oh my God. I can with Zach too. And we have fights about it because I'll be like you're clearly like mad or frustrated. And maybe you don't even like, you know, and he's like, just leave me alone. For sure. I'll realize how he feels before he does. Yeah. And I think talking about it and just.

really allowing him to be more in touch with that side of himself for really the first time in his life is a big gift that I've given him. And in general, I think I'm really good at pulling him out of a bad mood. And it's not an easy thing to do. What do you do? That's like I need this for Zach. So I just extra sweet to him instead of, and I've had to learn this over time because I feel like I just get annoyed. If that's in a bad mood, then I get, like, mad at him for ruining our day because he's in a bad mood. Yes, he can be moving.

Which is the opposite of what you're supposed to do. Like, it's terrible. So what should I do instead? I make the very conscious effort to not give up on him no matter what in the bad mood because I feel like that's something I can do for him. And I'm not a patient person, but with him I am because I feel like he deserves my patience. So I'm just extra sweet to him until I can get him out of it, whether that means like doing a bunch of things that he loves or writing him a cute little letter. We write to each other every day and he's actually better about it than I am a lot better about it.

Like just little notes or what do you do? So he wakes up before me every day and he writes me a letter that I wake up to every morning and it's amazing. And I don't wake up before him so I don't have like that ideal window to write it. So I'll write him something when he's in a bad mood, just something really sweet or all. Yeah, I just try to do something. That's what I've learned about him is that he just needs, he needs that love and attention that he sometimes feels is lacking from me because of me focusing so much on myself. But you write him back a letter at some point during the day? I do.

And how long are these letters? I just not as good about it as he is. Like he does it every day. I would say I do it like three days. a week. Oh, sometimes they're really short and sometimes there are a couple pages. It just kind of depends. Sometimes it's a poem. Can you tell us one, I don't want you to throw Jonathan under the bus. However, I do feel like anybody who follows you on Instagram is probably like, he makes it feel almost impossible to find a guy like that. Like he just seems like so annoyingly perfect TBH. Like it just feels

like a little bit ready. You're just like, he writes me love notes and he's so supportive of all of your chronic disease stuff and he's just like you don't have to come my friend's wedding like is it well that was a fight the first the wedding thing but yeah but like it's just like is there I'm always wary of people holding their lives up to a standard that they'll never achieve so is there just anything you can tell even me first of all like we argue all the time especially because we started as friends so like there's this element to us that's very bickery and like we were like that as friends as well but one thing about Jonathan that I can't stand is that so he keeps things like crazy neat and organized, which is a good quality. I'm not like that at all. So all day long, he's like picking up my stuff

and putting it in places without telling me. So anytime I need something, I can never find it. And the other day, this happened in a big way where I needed my nice cannon camera for a photo shoot. And I couldn't find it anywhere. It wasn't in our apartment. And I couldn't get a hold of him and I found out that it was in our storage unit, which I don't have a key to. And he never told me. Oh, my gosh. So he kind of lacks that like communication piece of like, hey, I'm putting your really nice camera in our storage unit, which is also not the right place for it. And I'm like, that is a place for things that we never use. Like, what were you thinking? So he kind of just marches to the beat of his own drum. He does things and he could be better about communicating them.

and I was so mad about that. And that turned into a whole thing of all sorts of things. Have either of you lived with a partner before? No. So that, I mean, that's sort of like a huge thing unto itself. Yeah.

Like learning to somebody, there's a quote recently that like I read from some celebrity, but she was like, marriage is easy. Living together is really hard. Like, if you took out the whole element of living together, it would be so much simpler to have a relationship.

I feel like that's why they say, don't get married. before you live together. Which I can definitely agree with. Moving in together about a year and a half before we got married, I'm so glad. Because you work out so much of that stuff. I mean, my dad always said that too. He's always said live with your significant other before you get married because you might not want to marry them after you move in with them.

Okay, let's switch gears a little bit and talk about your Lyme disease. We were talking about on your podcast what a guinea pig you. you are essentially for different treatments and all this stuff. And I find that very brave because it would make me so nervous for my own body, about literally probably experiences like the one that you had in the bathroom. Like I would just be so afraid that kind of stuff would happen. So first of all, how do you decide what is, how do you find what you try and how do you decide that it's worth trying? I love this question. So I do consider myself a guinea pig for wellness treatments, especially because I've been interested in them.

I've been obsessed with them since before I ever even got sick. And then when I got sick, I realized, because I'm such a believer in the universe and then everything happens for a reason. And at the right time, I realized, wow, I've been obsessively researching and writing about this stuff for so many years and now I need it. So I felt like that was kind of a really big blessing. So I started off with things that are a little bit more mainstream, especially. now like acupuncture and cupping and I would call those things more mainstream even though they

weren't when they're especially considered I think pretty safe like they're at this point people are like you're probably not going to hurt yourself doing acupuncture exactly so for a number of years I felt so terrible that I would literally try anything and I still would and my parents would be so worried about some of these things that I was going to try and I had to explain to them when you feel as awful as I feel, you will do anything to feel better because I didn't have my life. I didn't have myself. I didn't have my brain. My brain was covered in brain fog and this was from living in a moldy environment and Lyme. Were you worried that anything would make it worse though? I didn't feel like it could get anywhere. I felt like even if it gets worse, it's not going to affect my quality

of life that differently because I was in such a bad position. So no, I wasn't really worried about that. I was pretty optimistic about everything that I tried. So a couple of the really out there things that I've tried are water fasting where I went to a facility in Santa Rosa, which I'm sure you're familiar with NorCal girl. And it's a medical facility. So you're with doctors that are taking your vitals twice a day. It's very safe. People hear about water fasting and they think it's the most extreme thing in the world. But when you're there, you realize it's not that extreme. People have been doing this since the beginning of recorded history. It's just something that's not no longer practiced very widely and where you drink water for three weeks and nothing else.

Nothing else. But depending on how it's going for you, if you're detoxing very heavily, they'll decide the doctors there will decide with you whether to go on juice for a few days or back on food. It's very situational. So I did that, but every three days or so I would do juice for two days because my detox was happening so fast at the time I was covered in head-to-to-toe hives. What's the thought? Like why would water drinking only water heal you? So first of all, our bodies spend so much of their energy digesting food every day.

It's like a crazy high amount, like 65% of the available energy in our body every day is used. to digest food. And then if your stomach is having issues, if you have some kind of chronic illness or IBS or something going on, your stomach is using even more energy all the time to digest food. And I related to that very much because I've always had stomach issues and I was so chronically fatigued. Also, basically things like parasites or different bacteria can be starved out when you're not giving them the food. I mean, parasites are eating everything that you put into your body. and I knew that I had so many parasites that were affecting everything from my mood to my body to insomnia. And then molds. It can also kill mold in the body because mold just doesn't have

an environment to live anymore if you're not eating food. So it's a really effective treatment for eczema, which I had, it was unlivable, the amount of eczema that I had. That was one thing that I tried that people found very crazy, but it helped me so much. help me get to that next level of healing. And to anybody listening, I would say definitely do it in a medically guided facility. Don't try it at home. It's, it's a lot. And you want to make sure you're in the right hands because I had a lot of detox symptoms, like acid reflux and migraines and throwing up and things that are not comfortable. And you have to rest. You can't walk around. Yeah, you just kind of like laid in bed all day, right? Literally. Did you watch TV? I did. Yeah.

They're the only thing I did. They're not just like, oh, no, you can do anything you want, really. I mean, I had all these plans of meditating and doing all this great spiritual stuff, but I didn't have anything in me. Right. It was Netflix. I watched the entire series of Bates Motel, if that gives you any indication of like how creepy of things that I like to watch. So that's what I did during my first water fast.

Some other things that I've tried that are pretty out there. ayahuasca, which is such a beautiful plant medicine. I've had the best healing experiences with plant medicine. If you had to say, I've heard you talk about ayahuasca before, but if you had to say, like, to summarize in a few sentences, why it's actually healing in a way you can't get elsewhere, what would you say? Well, it's such a powerful plant. It's so hard to even describe because it goes beyond what we can talk about in our language that we have because it takes you, it takes you wherever you need to go. So for me, that was very ancestral. It took me through the bodies of many of my ancestors. And it's hard to describe. It's a psychedelic and it comes from the Amazon.

And if you have never done a psychedelic or even if you have, it's hard to even imagine where you might go, but it's like closing your eyes and going to a completely different world. So it can heal trauma from this lifetime or trauma from past lifetimes. Yeah, like, why was you embodying the bodies of your ancestors healing for you? It showed me where so much of my sickness comes from. And it showed me, at least because you can set an intention for every ceremony with the plant medicine. And my intention was to find out why am I sick and how can I heal? And so first I found out why am I sick. And I saw the pain carried through, basically through my paternal lineage, which was starting with like my great, great, great grandmother, people that I never met and kind of learning about them on this ayahuasca journey.

But spending a lot of time with my dad's mom and my dad's dad, who I knew when they were alive. but they've both passed away and learning about their pain and how much pain specifically that my grandmother carried. And it was just this very huge weight of the world unhappiness that she had and that she feels like she didn't get to have the life that she felt that she deserved in many different ways. And then this major deep unhappiness that transferred into my dad, my siblings, and myself that just shows up in different ways. So with my dad, it's just this crazy OCD. He's very neat. He's

to a fault. I mean, my parents' house is like a museum. And anybody who knows my dad knows that he has a very bad temper. Did you talk to him about this experience afterwards? And I understand you. Did he feel more seen as a result of your ayahuasca experience? My dad thinks that a lot of the things that I do are so out there. He can't even wrap his head around it. And, And he laughed hysterically when I say, like, I've been with your parents all weekend and now this has happened a lot. And he's like, oh my God, you're crazy. But yes, ultimately, it's pretty undeniable. A lot of the stuff that has come forth from spending this time with my ancestors and other things that I do. He does feel seen. The thing about my dad is that he and I are very similar.

And we've buttheads my entire life because we're very serious. similar, but also live life really differently. And we're very similar and we're very opposite at the same time. But I believe if we are both living in our highest alignment of truth of who we are, we would be like the same person living the same type of life. And I think if he had the option to live a more creative and carefree life the way that I have, he would have been a lot happier. Does he just work like a sort of normal 9 to 5 job? Totally. But my dad, he got his girlfriend in high school pregnant and he had my oldest sister and he got

married and he went straight to work and he put a lot of pressure on himself. And there's just so many things like he didn't have the same support that I had from my parents, which was like next level support. And I feel very grateful for that in so many different ways. So yeah, he does feel a lot more seen because of it. And for me, doing all that ancestral trauma work has been so helpful. Just my belief is that we carry so much baggage from our lineage that transfers into this lifetime and almost makes no sense at all until you start to dive into it. And it's a very spiritual belief. And it's, it is different from the way that I'm, it's, it is different from the way that. I grew up and the things that I was taught. But ayahuasca opened my mind spiritually in a way that shows me basically that we're souls having a human experience and that's what I believe. And it's been super healing for me to see that being sick in this lifetime might actually be the hugest gift that I've

ever been given because of all the things that it has forced me to explore and to learn about myself and to learn about my family. So when you say we're souls having a human experience, does that like mean that you don't have, are you able to not have like a lot of dumb things that hinder human, like, do you not get jealous or have phomo or like experience petty emotions because you like recognize the pettiness of them? Every day I have all those emotions and every day I remind myself that we're souls having a human experience.

It's like a maundra you tell yourself almost like over and over and over. I mean, we're still human. We came here to be human. There's a lot of stuff that I've dove deeper into after having that experience. And usually after a very awakening experience with ayahuasca or even without plant medicine, but meditation or kundalini, different things that I've had really awakening experiences with, you will feel kind of like unburdened by humanness for a few days or a few weeks. But of course, we're human. We came here to be human.

We came here to have those emotions and to experience those range of emotions that you don't get to experience when you're a soul, when you're a spirit. So what do you do to like, this is one of my biggest problems is like we both are in a very competitive, ambitious industry where there's not like you want to have books, sell a certain amount of copies and you want to have a certain amount of downloads

and all of that, what's the dialogue you have with yourself around that to kind of keep your soul and your mind elevated? Well, I've just had to disconnect from a lot of that, from a lot of the pressure that I placed on myself for many years because I realized where it was coming from, which you mentioned it at the beginning of this episode, which was more of a scarcity mindset, like stepping away from my podcast, I had to really learn who am I as Jordan and understand. understand how worthy I am as a person, even if I was never to work again and if I was never to put myself out there again in the public eye the way that I have. And I've kind of been on

this journey for the last two or three years ever since getting sick, where I've had to be really comfortable with that and different people in my life have really helped me. Like Kelsey Patel, who I know, you know, she's a making master. Yeah, she's amazing. She's really helped me to see that Jordan outside of the balanced blonde, outside of everything I've created with work and my brand and writing and all these things where I've always really heavily identified myself, Jordan is so worthy and Jordan is so loved just as she is and I'm enough as I am. Does she tell you those words? This is like truly probably my biggest struggle in life is to feel like I have value outside of that, which I try to have value. Like, I inherently have value.

Does she just say those words? Or does she, like, tell you something that actually makes you believe them? She does. And she tells me something that makes me believe them. But also, whatever she says, you know, wouldn't matter unless I believed it myself. So I've had to really go inside and learn what those things are about me that make me so inherently worthy just because I'm me. And all of us are because we are all so inherently worthy as humans. Like the fact that we're alive makes us worthy. And I believe that so, so, so deeply. So I've had to learn what those things are about myself. And well, ultimately they have nothing to do with work.

And that's what makes it so much more possible for me to disconnect from the podcast downloads and the book sales and all that kind of stuff. and ultimately I've learned it fuels my work with so much more passion that the podcast episodes are better and the future books will be better and stuff because I'm not as tied to those outcomes. Yeah. But it's a daily practice. It's not like it goes away overnight. So what some of those things are. So I believe that I came here on this earth to heal my family's lineage.

And that's not just because of ayahuasca, but I've actually kind of. felt that way my whole life where I've always felt like a very old soul who was coming back to this earth to just kind of like love people and experience things and be a light for my parents and for the close friendships in my life and now for my husband and for myself and to experience things creatively and express myself creatively, which really truly looks different every single day. So it's very simple things like being a good friend that I know that my friends can trust and people can lean on me, being a light in every situation, making people feel seen, making people feel heard, being good to my family, being enjoyable to be around, even when I don't feel like it. I mean, these very basic things. And yeah, none of that was really at the forefront of my mind before I had to dive into all of that.

and then beyond relationships, because as you can probably see, I do still heavily identify with, like, being good to people and people like me. And it's like, it's a very Libra thing and just how I've been my whole life. Just ultimately, if I were alone on a desert island for all of time, I would still be worthy. And what is it in me that makes me worthy? It's just being alive and being this soul, having a human experience. I chose to come here.

I chose to experience things. and I'm doing it and how lucky am I and the same could be said for all of us. It's lovely. I wish you guys could see Liz's figgs right now. She's like a processing. No, I'm processing. I think I like when people say stuff that makes me think that's like the goal of the podcast for me. You're listening to the healthier together podcast.

Happy February. Can we talk about donuts for a second? I made the absolute best mini donuts I have ever had using the Simple Mills Vanilla a cupcake and cake baking mix this past week. You can make the donut base just following the recipe on the box, and they also totally work as cupcakes if you prefer. And then you make a glaze using the Simple Mills Frostings mixed with a little bit of coconut oil,

an idea I got from my friend Brittany Mullins, whom you might know is eating bird food. I topped them with some organic sprinkles, and the end result was so cute and so good. I love keeping a box of the Simple Mills Vanilla Cake Bakey Mix in my pantry, which is really just a converted closet, one of only two I have in my entire tiny apartment. That is how devoted I am to food.

Anyway, if you have a box on hand, you can whip up a special treat so quickly and easily, and you can totally customize the flavor profile to suit your needs. I love adding some dried lavender the mix or rainbow sprinkles for like a funfetti vibe or throwing in some cardam in orange blossom water. The possibilities are truly endless. You know, I love reading you the ingredients because the ingredient lists are so short and filled with real food ingredients. The vanilla cake mix has literally just almond flour or,

organic coconut sugar, arrowroot powder, organic coconut flour, baking soda, and sea salt. That is it. Six ingredients and one of them is salt. It's amazing how good it tastes and how it makes baked goods come out perfectly every single time. You can find Simple Mills products at Publix and Whole Foods or if you want to get a whopping 20% off your order, you can go to Simplemills.com and use the code healthier together 20 when you check out. That's healthier together like the name of this podcast and then the number 20. And if you make anything with the vanilla baking mix, definitely tag me and at Simple Mills on

Insta. I want to see and compliment your work. Simple Mills is one of my all-time favorite brands and I cannot wait for you to try them. I know you'll love them too. All right. Let's get back to the episode. Okay, going back to the different stuff you've tried. Does it mean that you don't?

You're not like looking up studies of how effective something is. You're just like, I'll try it, see if it's effective. How many opinions and stuff are you trying to weigh in before you decide if you're you're going to try something. So I like to do enough research where I know what I'm getting myself into. I really make decisions intuitively and I try to tune out the noise because what I realized with almost all of this alternative medicine stuff is you're going to find the people who swear by it and you're going to find the people who say it's so dangerous and never to do it. So I try not to do too much research. Otherwise, it's confusing.

There's so many different opinions. So I have my trusted people that I talk to. My Lyme doctor actually is an angel in my life. I always call her one of my angels. She's an MD. She's a Lyme expert. She sits on all the Lyme boards. And if she says something is dangerous for me in particular, then I trust her

because she's very familiar with my body and the things that I'm prone to, like these crazy histamine reactions. So there's things that I've wanted to try that she has straight up said to me would be a terrible idea for me. And I trust her. Like B venom therapy. And that's something that I would still love to try in the future. But I've trusted her when she said to me, not now. And everybody has their different healing modality.

Whereas ayahuasca, for example, was something that she stood behind wholeheartedly. and as a doctor, she was very well read on different things about it that I had no idea. So she was actually able to convince my parents that it wasn't going to be this dangerous, horrifying thing. Yeah. What treatments would you say have made the biggest difference in your life? So definitely stem cells. I get stem cell infusions once a month.

And they come from an umbilical cord from a newborn baby. and it's just a tiny little injection. It's this big. It's really tiny. And just gets straight into your bloodstream, which gives you millions of healthy cells, which then multiply it in your bloodstream and kill the sick, toxic cells. And it takes several times for it to really work because depending on how toxic you are, how sick you are to begin with, you'll need more time with it.

So for me, it was probably about three months consecutively. getting stem cells before my symptoms started to feel noticeably less intense. And now I've been doing it for about a year. And it just builds upon itself every month. So before my wedding, I got a double dose of stem cells, which was amazing and also terrifying because your immune system, when you first get them injected, your immune system is like revving up and it doesn't really know what to do. So for an entire like 24 hour period. I thought I had the flu. I thought I had strep throat.

And it's your immune system just kicking back into gear. And that was too much probably the double dose. But I really wanted to feel good for my wedding. So stem cells has helped me a ton. Living life a little bit more slow-paced has been my ultimate medicine rather than just putting that pressure on myself. And it's really true that stress makes sense. us sick and stress keeps us sick.

Stress inhibits us from healing. So I even think the pressure to heal can be a lot for people like the totally I need to get better. I need to do all these things to get better can keep you from getting better. Right. And trying to identify a lot less with

being sick is huge for me. Yeah, you texted me that. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah. So I think partially because I have a blog and I share so much in my life that things that I go through can get very, I get very defined by them, by others and from myself. So if I'm talking about being sick every day, it's a huge way that I identify myself. And I also think that that makes it really hard to heal if you just consider yourself this sick

person. And people have said to me over the last couple years, you know, how will you ever heal when you're sharing this with people every day that you're sick. And I never really resonated with that at first because I thought I'm just sharing my daily experience when it changes. That will change too. But there's something to be said for when there are thousands of people out there expecting you to be a certain way, you kind of fall into that every day, even if it's subconscious. So I think that that was happening with me for a while.

So I actually have been trying to be really positive on social media and even just with my friends. And rather than sharing every down day that I have, just kind of keeping it to myself and just keeping things a little more positive because I need that in order to heal rather than taking to Instagram or texting my friends every time I have this really scary experience or whatever it is because then I'm talking about it for days and giving. having tons of attention. And then even if it's subconscious, it's in my brain that it's like, well, that's just, that's just who I am. And that's just going to keep happening. I debate that a lot with my anxiety struggles because I know, like, I am going through them.

And I know that it was so helpful for me when I had the worst anxiety to see people who I perceived as having good lives, like talking about their anxiety, which is why I do it. But, and I'm, you know, you're doing the same. You're like helping people be like, these are the things that can help you here, heal the life you can live with this illness, but like it does track, like, I don't want to be telling myself over and over like you're the anxiety girl. Exactly. I think there's a very fine line. I think it's so therapeutic and so healing to talk about it. Yeah. But I think it's very therapeutic to talk about other things as well. Yeah. And when I was just really sick, I was in a very bad

place and I just, I was also very desperate for people to see how much pain I was in because I need it. I'm like, this is not normal. I need people to know how bad Lyme disease is. And then I took those struggles on too, I think for the Lyme community because to have a platform where I can talk about a disease that is still really misunderstood, I wanted to be able to show that this is something that really needs to be taken seriously and only in the last few years as it even really recognized. Do you worry at all about like when you switched from being so identified as a vegan to not being, you got one, a lot of like backlash and hate, but also you like lost a lot of your audience, I assume. Do you worry about when you heal from Lyme disease, losing all the people who have been

invested in that journey and wanting to follow for those reasons? Not really because I do think anybody who stops following me or listening to my podcast or whatever it is because I heal and because I'm not, you know, going through the chronic illness itself. I just feel bad for the position that they're in if they're unable to celebrate someone who's healing because I know that when I was really sick, seeing people heal was so inspiring and so exciting. And I think being able to detach from how we feel and needing other people to feel that same exact way is very healthy. So I can understand that maybe my content wouldn't resonate as much with some people if I'm not sick anymore and that's fine.

But that's not something that I really worry about. I more so want to show people that it's possible to heal. Okay, I have to ask, how do you pay for it all? It's super expensive. It's crazy. And like, yeah, I'm so worried. Lyme disease is my biggest. fair just like full disclosure i get so nervous about it i'm so anal about ticks and all of that and one of the

reasons is one i literally don't feel like i have the time to have Lyme disease because i'm like i know literally i'm just how do you have the time to deal with all of it and then two i don't feel like i have the money to have it it's a really big problem for sure um and i feel terrible because a lot of the treatments that have helped me the most are very expensive and i try to share everything so that people can get a little taste of different things that they can try while also being really mindful that I'm very lucky to be in a position to be trying these things. So for me, it's just that I have worked really hard for, you know, several years and done really well and I'm paying for it all myself. Insurance covers nothing. And it's not where I want to be spending all my money at

all. There's so many things that I want to do, but that's what happening. I think that's something people don't see on social media. Are you making financial decisions like, oh, I won't buy this clothing or I won't take this vacation so that I can get these treatments? I definitely think about it. And I definitely trade things out. Like, I'm going to be doing this healing kind of detox retreat in Palm Springs that I love to do at this place called WeCare. That's pretty expensive. So that's going to be a vacation that I will do this spraying rather than going somewhere. might be a lot more fun or as a couple or something like that. So yes, definitely. Also, yeah, it's just crazy. And I've just, I don't even know how to describe it really when I was

getting ozone every week, ozone therapy, which is also really helpful for Lyme and one of the treatments that I feel really, really helps me, especially in the beginning. That was a weekly expense that was just crazy. And I almost had to look at it in a way. that I just had to detach from that. I would never spend that kind of money every week on anything else, no matter what it was. And I think when you get this sick and you do have the option to do some of these treatments, you just have to detach from everything else. Like, on a spiritual level, I started looking at it as maybe that money, like, wasn't mine to begin with.

And so I'm just giving it away is what it feels like, but not really because it's for the benefit of my health. Yeah. You, okay, so you've had a few other, like you have symptoms. They might, I don't know how related they are to Lyme, but you've like struggled with anxiety and then you have XM and stuff like that. Can you just say quickly what you think a few things were that were really helpful for different things you've had? So like, was there one healing modality that you found really helpful for your skin and

one healing modality that you found maybe the most helpful for anxiety? Yeah. So eating more of an alkaline plant-based diet has been really helpful for my skin. I realized that I was chronically inflamed and that came a lot from living in a moldy environment. So firstly, moving out of that moldy environment, which was my old apartment and then eating an alkaline plant-based diet and avoiding inflammatory foods really helped heal my eczema. I also stopped eating night shades like eggplant and tomatoes and peppers and things like that, which has been really helpful for me with skin and eczema.

cooking a lot at home so that I always know what's going into my food has helped a lot with anxiety. Always getting enough sleep is really helpful for me. You started with insomnia a lot. Right. Oh, yes. So what has helped with that? That's been a lifelong thing.

So that you can get the sleep you need to not have anxiety. Well, you mentioned on my podcast routine. So I try to be pretty routine with what time I wake up in the morning because if I let myself sleep in too late, it's very hard for me to follow. sleep at night. So the routine, I like to take CBD baths at night. That helps me a lot. Yeah, really, really helps me. I take melatonin lately, which wasn't always my favorite, but it's far better than getting no sleep at all. So that really works for me right now. And then I try not to eat chocolate late at night, even though I love it, but it keeps me up because I have a super sensitive

system. So that and meditation, I mean, for me, the insomnia comes from racing thoughts. It comes from anxiety. It comes from that kind of stuff. Is there a type of meditation that you do? So I really want to do, I want to learn vating meditation. I know that's what you do. I like to do Joe Dispenza meditations. I don't know what that is. So he is a doctor very much of the belief. Like if you change your frequency, you can change your life. And so it's a meditation to really become aware of the space around your body and just your body in space. It's very interesting.

So he has free meditations on Apple Music and YouTube and he has really good books. Cool. Okay. Anything else for the anxiety? Well, I try to limit caffeine, just like I know you do. But lately I've been drinking coffee again because I love it. I wish I love it. It feels like such a cool grown-up thing to love.

And I honestly feel like a child that I don't, because I just never got into it because it always contributed to my anxiety. So like I feel like I'm seven when people like have their cool. I drink sometimes the four-sigmatic chaga, which is really dark and it looks like coffee. Exactly. And I'll be like, do I look like a coffee drinker? I know. I'm like you.

I never drank coffee until maybe like three or four years ago. So like when I lived in New York, I wasn't a coffee drinker. I felt like everybody was. and I love it. I totally fell in love with it. And I think there's something to be said about having things that we love. For sure. I'm very strict with myself about my diet because it helps me so much and has helped me heal so much.

So when there's something I really love, like coffee and it makes me happy and it makes me excited to wake up in the morning, I like to have it when I can. But I have to limit myself because if I have too much coffee, the anxiety symptoms kick in. absolutely. So that helps breathing, breath work. I find that I hold my breath a lot. So just like learning to breathe and reminding myself of that when I get into those situations where I feel like a panic attack is coming on is super helpful. And then just becoming aware of like the room that I'm in has been really helpful for me because I will feel like I'm not even in my body. So I was given the advice by my Ayurvedic doctor to look at like the shapes of things in the room like that

set of shelves behind you and and look at the corners and focus on them and it sounds so mundane but it has helped me from like having full blown panic attacks. Do you get anxious about getting sick like you can get Lyme disease multiple times? Like I'm so anal about hiking and ticks and stuff. Like, do you worry about that stuff or no? Definitely, because I feel like I've made a lot of progress and I have so many fears of backsliding for a lot of different reasons. So, yes, with the ticks and with so many other things.

But for me, I get a lot of anxiety about mold because it feels really uncontrollable, at least with ticks. Like, I try to cover my skin when I'm on a hike and I check my body and all these different things. but if I'm in an office building or someone's house that might have mold, you can't see it and they might not know. Have you had this place checked for it? Yeah, I get it checked pretty routinely and I'm pretty psycho about checking for leaks and that kind of stuff.

But, I mean, if I'm in like an office building that's a little bit old and like smells a little funky, I will freak out. I will panic because I don't know if it's mold or I don't know if it's not mold. I went to this Hewler's house, a few. months ago that for sure had mold, I could see it. I wanted to be there with her and have this experience, but I was so panicked because. But those little short-term exposure, does that, I thought you had to like live in it for a while to like have issues. It depends on the person and it depends on how sick you've been and it depends on everything because I've been in a position

where if I was exposed, even just the slightest bit to like a moldy apple, it could send me into a terrible. Did you stay with the healer? I did. And then I did a lot of things afterward. Like I have this infrared sauna in my home and I took charcoal and it didn't seem to affect me that much, which was probably a good sign of me healing because there have been other times where if I'm exposed for even just a few hours or a night or something, I'll wake up with full body hives and brain fog and panic attacks and nausea and misery. Like, it just, I mean, do you get angry or resentful? Like, like, when you see other, you know, your friends, you've so many friends are just like,

go out drinking and, like, travel and aren't, like, do you get frustrated that they don't have to deal with that kind of shit? I've had times being angry, really angry. But I really believe wholeheartedly that for me it's been such a. gift. It's been my greatest gift. It sounds crazy because I've lost a lot of things in my life because of it and I've had to give up a lot and even Jonathan has had to give up a lot and my parents. I've missed a lot of things, even just like things that, who knows what I would have accomplished in the last few years if I wasn't so busy being sick. But ultimately, no,

because I feel like it is a gift to get sick. I know it's probably not a popular opinion, but it reconnected me to who I am and what's actually important to me and has shown me who I am and has opened the doors to this new type of just much deeper spirituality that now is really at the forefront of my life and psychic abilities and things that I was not in tune with at all before.

and now I'm so appreciative of everything. I'm appreciative of having the energy to do this with you today. I mean, little things that are so normal in other people's lives. I have so much gratitude for. I am obsessed with flowers and nature and things outside because I wasn't able to go outside for so long. And like the beauty of a flower can make me cry. and I could cry like even just talking about it. So I'm so grateful for this experience because ultimately I'm a much better person for it.

And I will never take one minute of my life for granted. So I'm not angry because I actually see other people who don't have, who haven't had to experience what I've had to experience and kind of the lack of gratitude because of it, not to say that, I mean, everybody has their stuff that they go through. I see some people who haven't had to go through it yet, and I know it's probably coming because I think it's part of being human. And maybe for some people in this lifetime, they're never meant to experience that. But I think part of what I came here to experience was that. I love that.

I have a few questions that I like to ask. Everybody, they are like yours supposed to be quickfire, but like they never are. So no stress. Okay, the first one is, do you feel successful? I do. I feel really successful because I get to do what I love every day. And I've always wanted to be a writer just like you. I mean, my whole life, that's what makes me happy.

So to get to write every day and in any capacity, especially about things that I love so much and to have people who care feels like huge success to me. and same with the love that I have in my life and just being happy, trying to be happy every day makes me feel successful. What's the best way to spend 20 minutes every day in the name of health or happiness? Ooh, 20 minutes. I mean, probably a lot of people say meditation, which is the first thing that pops into my mind. Also getting outside, I try to get outside every day, especially for 20 minutes, just to go on a walk, appreciate the beauty of nature. I remind myself what's important, get some fresh air, move my body. Love that.

What is something that you've purchased that's made your life healthier, happier? And for you, because I think you do a lot of like treatments and stuff, let's limit it to physical items. Ooh. Well, I love these cards. Maybe I'm thinking of them because they're right here. But I love cards that have mantras on them or tarot cards. These are the super attractor cards by Gabby Bernstein. and I like to pull them every day.

They have just like a very positive mantra that can set your day off on a really good tone. Yeah, I love that. Have you ever been somewhere in the world where you've been like, the people who live here really got it right in terms of living a happier, a healthy life?

And if so, where was it? Well, the first place that comes to mind is Sumba Island. It's in your honeymoon, right? Yeah, it's in Indonesia, off the coast of Bali. And it's very different from any thing we've seen in the very third world. They live in huts with their whole village and they share everything and there's no money really. It's all just like a sharing system. If you go out and work,

you bring everything back to your village and take care of your family. The reason that I say this, even though it's so far removed from how we live, is because these are some of the happiest people I've ever met. And they don't understand the way that we live life at all. They think that we're very greedy and that we're very, that we've lost sight of what matters in life. And I understand we live in a modern society and there's amazing things about that. Clearly, I take advantage of it every day. But to see how happy they are with the very limited amount that they have is pretty profound. And so I think sometimes we forget how simple life is really meant to be. And so they're the first people that I thought of.

I love that. All right. And last one, what is one big mistake you made and what is one thing you really feel like you got right? Wow. One big mistake that I've made. I know there have been a lot. The first thing that comes to mind is that I'm very impulsive and I've learned this about myself. So I try not to make decisions very quickly. But sometimes I do. So I mean, I will like commit to something wholeheartedly and then cancel like immediately. So a big mistake that I've made is probably like committing to business ventures and things with people that probably like really get their hopes up. And then I completely back away. And I realize no, no, no. Actually, if I were to have thought about this a bit further for me, it's not right. And that also has to do with my human design being a reflector. Reflectors are supposed to wait 28 day moon cycles to make important decisions. And that's not always possible, but it just goes to show you how many times I can change my mind. Imagine if Jonathan had proposed to you and you'd been like, I'm going to wait 28 days to give you

an answer. Thankfully, I thought about that one beforehand. No, it's so true. So that's the first thing that comes to mind just because I really am of the belief that like there are no mistakes because we learn from everything. But if there's anything I truly regret, it would just be like getting people's hopes up when I didn't have to. and I could have just given it a little bit more thought.

And then something that I really got right, starting my business, starting the balanced blog and blog, because back then blogging wasn't something that people were doing for work, and I never thought that it would be for work. It was always just a passion. And I believe it was very intuitively driven that I started it because looking back, I don't really remember why I did, but I did. And I'm so glad I did.

because I do not know what I'd be doing now if I wasn't doing this. And I feel so happy to be sharing my life with people who care. And yeah, I feel like I got that right for sure, just starting it. Oh, my God. Take a gander, though. What would you be doing if you weren't? Like, if you had to picture yourself in another career, what would it be? Well, what I was thinking I was going to do was I always wanted to be a novelist.

That's why I'm like, we are so similar. Yeah. I was in grad school for creative writing, and I was writing a novel. I was obsessed with writing the same story over and over and over again. I wrote this novel so many times that was really based on my adolescence with my boyfriend who, it was very traumatic, and I was trying to write this as a fiction story over and over and over, and over until I finally realized if I was ever going to tell the story, it would have to be real.

It would have to be a memoir because I was trying to be. trying to change too many things about it. But my plan was while I was working to be this novelist that I would work at a publishing company in New York, very like creative writing MFA of me and what many of my classmates went on to do. So I probably would have done that. And then I hopefully would have been writing novels. And I still want to write novels. And during my time off, that's something that I got really inspired about was just writing for fun again. and writing in a way where I'm not always trying to spin things into like sharing it on my blog or something for my brand, but really just writing poetry and fiction and even if it never goes anywhere,

just enjoying the creative expression. That's so special. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. Thank you for doing this with me. It was very fun. I hope you love that conversation with Jordan as much as I did. Definitely remember to go check out her. her interview with me over on the balanced blonde soul on fire podcast. And then if you would like

to rate and review both podcasts, we would so appreciate that and so love that. And that would enter you to win a $100 Amazon gift card. So just go comment done on the podcast post on my Instagram after you do that. And I hope you love it. And I hope you have a wonderful day. I'll see you on the next episode. When you think about strength and resilience, like your ability to feel energized, to recover well, to stay strong as you get older, what do you think that actually comes from? Most people say working out or good nutrition, and yes, of course that matters. But there is a biological foundation underneath all of that that most people are completely overlooking. I have been diving deep into this lately with the team at timeline and what I've

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