The Liz Moody Podcast - Josh Peck on Transcending Childhood Trauma, Hollywood Secrets, Losing 70 Pounds, and Actionable Steps Toward Self Love

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Today, my guest is the amazing Josh Peck. You might recognize Josh from the many movies and TV shows he’s been in, including The Wackness with Ben Kingsley, Red Dawn with Chris Hemsworth, his regular guest starring role on The Mindy Project, and more recently in How I Met Your Father, and of course, he starred as the Josh of the title in the Nickelodeon phenomenon Drake & Josh. He also shares incredibly funny content on social media, where he has more than 32 million followers across platforms, and he has a new, beautiful book called Happy People Are Annoying, which comes out March 15 and I HIGHLY recommend—it’s available wherever books are sold. On this episode, we talk about: why he wrote a book and what his writing process looked like his advice to anyone who wants to pursue a creative project what it means to live a “good” life how he overcame his childhood trauma and forgave his absent father how he transcended negative relationship patterns how he went from hating to forgiving his younger self how he lost 70 pounds and the surprising ways it impacted his self-perception what sparked his weight loss and why in that moment it finally stuck his relationship with his body now, working in the very image-conscious world of Hollywood why he started using drugs (and how ultimately he quit them) behind the scenes from life on set in Hollywood, including a life changing moment with Judd Apatow how he learned to love himself (including actionable, pragmatic steps to follow) his morning routine to stay mentally grounded and positive how fame and wealth have impacted his happiness 2 genius pieces of advice for finding success on social media We would LOVE to hear from you any thoughts, reactions, or takeaways you have as you’re listening, so definitely screenshot and tag me @lizmoody and Josh (@shuapeck)!  I would SO appreciate it if you shared this episode or any favorite episodes with someone you love in your life! PS: My Patreon is live! You can join Green Smoothie Society and get access to ALL of my green smoothie recipes and advice! Get all the deets at patreon.com/lizmoody. This episode is sponsored by AG1 by Athletic Greens. Visit athleticgreens.com/healthiertogether and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today.  This episode is sponsored by Paleovalley. Head over to paleovalley.com and use the code LIZM for 15% off.  This episode is sponsored by Nuzest. You can use the code “LIZM” for 20% off your order on http://nuzest.us/liz. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the healthier together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a cookbook author and long-time journalist. This podcast is all about helping you live your healthiest, happiest life, whether we're discovering healthy cooking secrets or learning science-back strategies to feel happier on a day-to-day basis. One of my favorite things to do on this podcast is to mix up having on world-renowned scientists, doctors, and experts sharing all of their amazing research-based strategies and more human interest stories from people who are dealing with the ups and downs of everyday life, learning and

growing and sharing all of that along the way. They both provide so many insights for new ways of thinking about or actioning things, but in such different ways. Today's interview is definitely on the latter side. It's an incredible story of a person transforming through adversity, and I took so much away from it. Today, my guest is the amazing Josh Peck. You might recognize Josh from the many movies and TV shows he's been in, including The Whackness with Ben Kingsley, Red Dawn with Chris Hemsworth, his regular guest starring role on The Mindy Project, and more recently in How I Met Your Father, which is just such a feel-good show. I am absolutely loving it right now, and I love him in it. And of course, he starred as the Josh of the title

in the Nickelodeon phenomenon, Drake and Josh. He also shares incredibly funny content on social media where he has more than 32 million followers across platforms. And he has a new beautiful book called Happy People Are Annoying, which comes out March 15th. And I highly, highly recommend it's available wherever books are sold. Josh has lived a really fascinating life. And it's definitely different than the shiny perception I think that a lot of us have of Hollywood. He's also incredibly introspective, wise, and frankly philosophical. And I loved all of the thought-provoking directions that this conversation went. We talk about how he grew up on and off welfare with an absent father and how he

overcame that childhood trauma and ultimately even was able to forgive his dad. We talk about him finding fame at his heaviest weight and how losing 70 pounds impacted his self-perception in some really surprising ways. We talk about his struggle with addiction and what was able to fill that hole once he finally got sober. He also shares a bunch of really fun behind-the-scenes stories from set and Hollywood. including a life-changing moment with Jed Apatow. He shares the best advice for finding happiness and contentment in everyday life, his morning routine, and two genius tips for growing a social

media following. Despite having an active fever when we recorded this episode, I absolutely loved this conversation. It made me really reevaluate some of the ways that I look at life, and it also just made me happy from an inside-out level. I can't wait to hear what you think, So definitely take screenshots as you're listening and write down any reactions you have. Anything that resonates and tag me on Instagram, I am at Liz Moody and Josh. He is at Shua Peck. That's S-H-U-A-P-E-C-K. If there's somebody in your life that you think this episode would resonate with, please share it with them.

And if someone shared this episode with you or you followed a link somewhere, welcome to the fam. Don't forget to hit the subscribe or follow button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss out on any future episodes. We have amazing ones coming up about eight things that get better as you get older, transforming your gut health and science-backed ways to find focus and get things done. So subscribe. I would love, love, love to have you as part of the healthier together community. Okay, without further ado, here's my conversation with the lovely Josh Peck. All right.

Thank you so much for joining me today. Josh, I'm really excited to talk to you about this book. I was telling you before we started recording. I loved it. I went in expecting to like it, but I really loved it. I think your perspective is so wise and funny and enlightening and just really beautiful. Oh, that means so much. I really appreciate it. And in full transparency, when I started writing it, I did not go in thinking I was going to like it. I'm like, who is this going to resonate with? And I'm just going to be like in the bargain bin at Barnes & Noble in two years. I know it.

Was it your idea to write it or did an agent come to you and say, like, you should write a book? So randomly out of this social media business I started over like the last almost 10 years, I started getting these speaking gigs at colleges, which I think is hilarious because I barely graduated high school. But parents, this is where your tuition's going. And I started realizing sort of the effect that you can have when you're sharing your story in the truthful way with like an audience and when you're willing to sort of be honest about challenges you've faced and hopefully give. some perspective, especially to people in the early 20s who I think are dying to have a little bit of direction. And so sort of like a book seemed like a way to level up that opportunity to kind of reach people in this way that I had started with these live talks. Did you take writing lessons or read books on writing? Because I was struck by how good the writing was. Oh boy, I appreciate it. I've written stuff like screenplays and whatnot, but I felt like I certainly had something to say,

and I knew I didn't want a ghost writer, but I knew that I needed someone like a producer that I could bother, because my editor is lovely and she's been so helpful at every turn, but I'm like, trust me, if I don't get someone else to help me with this thing, you're going to wind up hating me. So I was lucky enough to have this brilliant writer friend of mine named Ryan Holiday, who was willing to advise me. And basically I would send him pages and he would tell me why they were bad. And I would say note taken, let me get back to work. And I think that was sort of the balance. So I had a bit of experience writing. But when you're writing a screenplay, there's just so much spacing. And then all of a sudden when you're sort of face with the blank page of having

to fill the whole thing with words, I'm like, oh, God, this is a completely different experience. And if the name Ryan Holiday sounds familiar to anybody listening, he is, of course, the mega bestselling author of The Daily Stoic books and a number of marketing books. He's a really prolific writer himself. Oh, man. Yeah. He's the dude. I'm so grateful and I'm so lucky. And because we're friends, like, he did not hold the punch in the best of ways. He would just be like, why does this page even exist? Exercises from anything you've written and don't bring it back. And I'd be like, noted. Do you have any advice for somebody who wants to take on a big creative project like that? Like anything you learned from writing the book?

It's the unsexy part of all creativity. I think I even make a weird reference about this in the book, which is like, we want to believe that writing is like the thing we see in movies where like someone gets drunk and they stay up all night and like they fall asleep. Yeah, the Bukowski model. Yeah, they fall asleep with the typewriter and it's literally like and their hand is resting on a finished manuscript. And it doesn't, it is so unsexy. And thankfully, I had learned this in writing. screenplays because I've always sort of had a bit of a natural talent for comedy and whatnot. And then just being an actor, I felt like, oh, I can write snappy dialogue thinking that's all that mattered. And then basically I would write like these funny scenes that went nowhere and made people feel nothing. And it was sort of conveyed to me of, oh, no, like the words,

that's the fun part. That's like the icing on the cake. And that's in movies or a book, right? The actual writing is kind of the, you're doing that at the seventh inning stretch. Like what you've been doing for the first seven innings is insane amounts of research and planning and strategizing. It's the forensic part of creativity where you're like, if I'm going to have to solve this case of accomplishing this, how can I like give myself enough to work off of so that I don't get lost in the forest? That makes sense. And I also, when you said the words are sort of like the last thing,

and I think that also applies not only in the process, but in how we're interpreting the work. I think when people start writing, they try to put all these like fancy words and metaphors and things like that in there. But the goal is to make people feel something. And those are only important insofar as they get you there. So like the writing's a tool to get you to feeling something. but I think sometimes people think good writing is the flourishes and the metaphors and the similes and all of that. Yeah, we're all show-offs. I love it. I love a great, you know, and when you can do it in the right way and you're able to sort of come up with a really fun bend that's specific to you on the way in which you see the world or how you articulate something, there's nothing better.

But I think it was always conveyed to me, especially when I've worked on scripts, it's like you can always write another joke. The jokes are easy, a snappy line. Because, again, like you can pull it out of thin air. What you can't pull out of thin air is like a concise story that builds and pays off in a certain way. And I don't mean to project, but I feel like creatives artists, like we didn't get into it to do homework. And outlining feels like homework. But I've never regretted a good outline. Even if you deviate, you have to know the rules to break them.

I totally agree. Okay, so let's get into your story a little bit. You open your book by saying, I'm going to read your own words to you, which I know is always embarrassing for creative people. So I'm sorry. But you say, you are an amalgamation of trauma. There's a good chance that someone in the past five generations of your ancestral tree lived in an incredibly unfair existence.

So unfair, in fact, that their sole purpose of survival and the thought of living a good life didn't go much further than making sure they had enough to eat that day. I thought that this was such an interesting way to open a book. To you, does that make you feel more like you should be pursuing a quote unquote good life because you can? Or is there guilt in that pursuit? Or is it something else entirely? Well, I guess I'll give a quick back story to why I landed on the book starting that way, which is, and for anyone who hasn't seen the book, cover, it's incredibly punchable. It's my big stupid phase with a big stupid grin with a yellow background behind it because my editor said that makes books pop on Amazon. And because I knew that

for the people who were reading this book who felt like they had an idea of who I was, that that would capture them if they were, you know, walking by it at a Hudson bookstore at the airport. But then I wanted to immediately pivot because who I really am is that passage, right? It's like, I know that I've sort of grown up in this way of being like this maybe sweet, corny, funny guy, and that's great. I don't have any qualms with that, but I know the real me, the me I am with my friends is like I think about my life in this way and think about most of our lives in this way, which is, yeah, I mean, it's inescapable. And I think the last hundred years has been sort of a renaissance in modern psychology because

life has become so much easier, just on a physical, practical level for most of the world. There are still people who are born into suffering without a doubt. But for many of us, even with a lower middle class upbringing, it's like so much of what our ancestors are not far off, you know, four or five generations before us had to deal with, like making sure they were fed for the day or not freezing to death or just not thought. So we have a lot of time to think about us. and but we're inheriting through like transgenerational trauma a lot of the hard stuff that people before us had to deal with. And I think that all of us are born into this world with a clean slate,

but for many of us, there's so much that happened before we ever took our first breath. And for better or for worse, we're sort of navigating the relics of that. So within those relics then, though, is it our duty to pursue the happiness that our ancestors never even got the opportunity to, or is that just like a fruitless endeavor? I don't know if it's our duty. I think like if life is a simulation, there are certain rules to this simulation, right? It seems as though if you don't hurt people on a regular basis, if you abide by the social contract, if you try to like have good karma, even if that doesn't exist, somehow that works to your benefit.

it was funny, I was able, I'm sure you know, like, Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reese, and I was able to be on Gabby's podcast. And for anyone who doesn't know, like, Laird and Gabby are these gorgeous people who are athletes, and it would be easy to look at them and think of them as like one percenters who would never understand people like us. And I said that to Gabby, I was like, why are you so great? Like, because you're 6-2 and a model and a professional volleyball player and, like, all these things. And she's like, on. one hand, it is who I really am to be loving and respectful and to be caring. And on another way, I just know that that's kind of the rules of the road for this world, that like I get a lot by giving a lot.

And I was like, that to me is such a perfect answer because who cares, right? Like I don't really care about your intention. I care about how your action. Because a lot of people never intend to hurt someone and all they do is hurt. That's really interesting. The idea of separating the intention from the action on both sides on the positive and the negative, it almost feels cynical on the positive side, but it feels like very freeing, too. I think so. I mean, yeah, action trumps intention, you know, 99.9% of the time. Okay, so let's get into some of the trauma of your ancestral tree.

Can you share some of the elements that you feel like have most impacted your life today? I come from like a Jewish family from the Northeast where my grandmother was sort of like the result of being a Jewish immigrant in the early 1900s and really didn't have much. We walked around the Lower East Side, poor and figuring out her way in life and, you know, was able to sort of like procure a husband and the family and security and but wasn't necessarily totally equipped because she was just doing the very best that she could. and she gave birth to my mom who immediately sort of in her 20s was like, oh, I should probably embrace a little bit of therapy and a little bit of 12 step because I might not have been given everything I need to navigate this world. And she's done so much beautiful work on herself. And then she gave birth to me.

And so like already generationally, we're like each generation should have leveled up with what they had to deal with. But despite the fact that I didn't have to deal with what my mom dealt with, I never met my dad. He bailed the moment I was born and I grew up incredibly overweight and sort of like in the public eye and with a lot of financial insecurity. So I think those were sort of like that was the Trinity, the trifecta that definitely set me up for some discomfort later on. Yeah, you talk about your dad was in his, what was 60s or 70s when you were born? 60s.

And your mom was in her 40s. Yeah, my dad was getting Medicare and chicks pregnant. And yeah, my mom was in her 40s. Okay, can you share a little bit about how not having your father in your life impacted your relationships with other people growing up with, and you talk about how it impacted your romantic relationships and your on-set relationships and your professional relationships? Absolutely.

There's this great line in Fight Club where Brad Pitt says, if our fathers are our model for God and our fathers leave, what does that say about God? And yeah, when 50% of your parental unit is gone, you assume that like nothing is permanent and that anyone could leave at any time. So I found myself first as an adolescent making these sort of secret agreements with men in my life that they had no idea they had entered into a contract with me about, which was I elevated these men to these surrogate father figures. And of course, they can never measure up because, A, they weren't my dad.

and B, they had no idea I was doing this. So I was constantly disappointed by men. And then basically just pushing them away because I just felt like dealing with this level of disappointment was going to be a regular thing in my life. And then I observed it with my relationships with women, which was that when natural conflict would arise in the relationship, as it always does, I would just bolt

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It's so interesting the disappointment when people aren't living up to these invisible contracts you're making with them. I feel like that's really pervasive in so many of our lives where we're like, I want you to be this person, but you don't communicate it. You don't tell them that. They have no idea that you want them to be this person. And then you end up heartbroken that they're not holding up their end of a contract that they didn't even know they were part of. So well said. I couldn't agree more. And then,

and it's also coming to terms of like, if you've been in any sort of long-term relationship, that people really, like, if you can get someone to change a millimeter, that's like the greatest feat ever. Yeah, it's true. I mean, people say you can't change people. And I think that's like a big debate. And I do think you can, but it's not ever because you're like, I want to change you. It's because you model behavior and they see things they like and they'll change them a teensy tiny bit over time. But it's never like, I don't like this and you need to change this because that's just setting you up for disappointment. My wife and I've been together like 10 years or we've been dating and married for four. And it took me 10 years to like understand to leave her alone when we get in fights or like we have a disagreement.

This will get worked out eventually but not on my timetable. And it took me like so many frustrating moments of me barely. into the bedroom being like, we're going to talk about this. She's like, oh, no, we're not. That's so interesting. So she likes like a little bit more space. And are you like a don't go to bed angry person? Yes, but my wife taught me that that was a big part of what I learned from her because she comes from this beautiful, very healthy, like family system so different than mine, which is like family doesn't leave. So we can be mad at each other. We can even go to bed angry. But I'll be here and you'll be when we eventually work this out. Oh my God. It's so crazy. You're saying that I also don't come

from any sort of like healthy family unit whatsoever. And it's like you saying that's like a little bit of a glass-shattering moment of like people who are okay with unresolved conflict in some ways. It's like a level of trust that you have in the relationship. You're so right. That's crazy. It's so crazy because you think, you know, we all grow up or like if you've done any of that self-work on yourself referencing books or experience or gurus who are like, no, it must be done this way. But someone who intrinsically, at a deep molecular level, has that healthy outlook on relationship, it's why I let her dictate the way we raise our kid, because I know like nine times out of 10, her baseline is just healthier than what I'm coming to the table with.

I'm in such a better place today, but I like her instincts. So what changed with her? Why, when stuff got hard with her, which I'm sure it did at some point, did you not leave? I think it's a why you see so many people start to start pairing up and marrying off between like 28 and 35 that like people just become more ready. So I think there was like timing was involved where I was in my life, like the work that I put in getting sober and where I was in my life. I certainly could never have attracted someone like my wife, you know, when I was out there, complete mess because I think she just would have run for the hills for seeing a guy like that. But yeah, I just think I was particularly ready at that time to do the work that was required.

And the things that my wife possess, like I have a very standard Jewish mother and never wanted to marry my mother, which was like why I married like an Irish Catholic girl from Sacramento. And yet the things that my wife possess are the things that my mom possessed, which is like a deep, deep-seated loyalty in unwavering belief in me. And like, my mom is like my biggest fan in a, I'm going to tell you every second way. And my wife is my biggest fan in like, I don't need to tell you because it should be assumed. Oh, that's really lovely. I love that. How is having your own son, how is your lack of father impacted raising your own son? I would say for like the negative, like you said, or I don't know if it's negative, but like you let your wife make a lot of

the parenting decisions, but it also sounds like it's been quite healing for you to have a son. I say in the book that I, my wife and I didn't find out the sex of the baby. And so for nine months, we're just wondering and I'm thinking, oh, I'm certainly going to have a girl because I've done too much musical theater and I don't have a... That's how it works, biologically. It's got to be. You know, when you've done this many productions of Pippin, it's a given. And then when my son was born, I was like, oh, of course, like, this is my cosmic comeuppance. Like, this feels like an opportunity in which to fix this bad feedback loop that I'd inherited from my dad.

And my dad had passed away, so I knew that I would never get the amends that maybe I deserved. But sometimes you give that amends to yourself by not perpetuating that trauma and giving it to the next generation. and in being a good father for my son, I was making an amends to the 15-year-old version of myself that felt completely left out, not having a dad. There were two events, but the first one was just like hanging out with my son, getting off on the most mundane of tasks, like going and when he had an ear infection, going to the pharmacy and saying, I'm here to pick up a prescription for Max Peck, like not believing I'd created this human who now had a CVS account.

But all these mundane things that like my dad missed all that. And I felt bad for him. And then also I knew he had a, my father had a whole other family. And I had siblings who were much older than me. And I'd always tried to look up photos of my father on the internet because I never saw a photo of him until I was 25. And he had no online footprint because he was 90. And so I randomly one day, a bunny mind, was like, why don't you put your siblings' names into Facebook? And in an instant, I had this treasure trove that I had unlocked of pictures of him throughout his life.

And at bar mitzvahs and weddings. And then there were all these beautiful sort of testimonies about my dad when he passed away and what a great father he was. And it made me realize that this guy, what he was to me wasn't the only part of him. Like he was also a good dad, the kind of dad I wanted him to be for me, for them. And I couldn't be the arbiter of what the ultimate right was, even though it wasn't right how he handled my situation. He seemed to be a great dad for them. It's interesting that you found peace in that because I feel like that would make a lot of

people really resentful. Because he was that for them. Yeah, because he was that for them. And he could, he had the opportunity to be that for you and he wasn't. I think I just was clear on this idea that, like, there's no free lunch. No one's getting out scot-free. I always say, like, this is kind of a bold, silly thing to say, but I think you'll understand the moment I say it. I don't cheat on my wife for my wife. I don't cheat on my wife for me because I'm not willing to walk around with that guilt and shame and fear and all the things that come with acting in that way. Obviously, I do it for her because I deeply respect her and I would never want to hurt her in that way.

way. But it's like every bad act that I do, any lie that I tell, anything that I do that I know isn't in line with who I am as a human being, I'm witness to my bad behavior. And I pay for it immediately. And I get sort of that sunshine of the spirit that we're all looking for, get sort of blighted by this fog of feeling bad and resentful and remorseful. So I know that he didn't get off scot-free. And I felt bad for him for that. And you don't talk to your siblings, right? You haven't met them? No, but wouldn't it be cool if I did? You could sense, I mean, they might think it was cool if you, you know, they're like, oh, Josh Pack wants to talk to me. I wonder. I don't know if they even know I exist. I imagine they

don't, only because there's like three of them and I'm not exactly hiding. So I don't know. But you could reach out and you've chosen not to. Right. I got enough friends. I'm so busy. No, I'm getting it. But like actually, is there a reason behind that? I feel like if they don't know that I exist, I have no desire to blow up whatever image they have of their dad. That makes sense. That's fair.

Are you worried at all about this is a huge fear of mine? I haven't had children yet. But one of the reasons I'm like, I don't know, scared to do it is unconsciously repeating a lot of the mistakes of my childhood, even when I have the best intentions. Do you have that fear at all? Absolutely. And I'm sure it's like they say if you're not nervous before a big performance, you're not ready. I think if you're not afraid of that on some level, I'd be like, what are you worried about then?

I don't want to perpetuate bad behavior and bad cycles. And I, again, I, A, it's inescapable, so I will do it to some extent. It just happens that way. Or in doing the antithesis of that, I'm going to screw them up in a different way. Like, my son has attended more Dave and Busters and, like, Kids Empire and Mini Golf and trampoline parks. Because you're doing all this stuff with him that you wish your dad had done with you. That's exactly right.

And I'm also like, wow, these places are only like 20 bucks for an hour or two. Like, it's not exactly like, I mean, you know, you don't have to be a rich person to go to these places. And I know my limitations. Like, I'm not a great get on the floor and play pretend, but I'm a great, let's go do stuff. kind of dad. And I'm sure that'll mess, you know, the fact that I didn't get to do that and that he gets to do that maybe in excess will screw him up in his own ways. So he'll be an adult who can't walk into Dave and Buster. So he'll be like, oh my God, my whole childhood is filled with the sound of

ski ball. Exactly. Okay. So let's talk about some of the stuff that's gotten you to the place that you are now from the place that you started. You write in the book, the reason why people are funny is usually not funny at all, which I think is really profound. I actually wrote a short story in college about how depressed comedians are in their heart. And the comedian ended up being a murder. And it was really a terrible short story. But I always think that that underlying sadness is something that we almost unconsciously look for in humor. Like it makes the humor palatable to us and it makes it resonant. And so I want to talk about, it seems like in the book, you connect that sentiment with the time that you were at a weight that you weren't comfortable with.

So I'd love to talk about that for a second. Your time on Drake and Josh was when you were at your heaviest weight. And that's also a time that you're obviously really, really known for publicly. So I'm curious what it's like for you now looking back at that. Are there negative feelings associated with getting so famous at a time that you weren't comfortable in your life or your body? Well, I think growing up overweight, I always assume that. I was at a disadvantage when I'd walk into a room.

And all the necessary, beautiful movements of the last decade, be it's body positivity and whatnot. It's so necessary, and yet it just didn't exist for me at that time. So it was not taboo for someone to comment about your weight. Sometimes people thought they were doing you a favor by calling you out for it. Well, this guy's just killing himself. He doesn't realize. So maybe if I shame him, he'll do something about it.

So I always felt like I was a disadvantage, so I procured this ability in which to like hone this talent I had for comedy because it was a magic trick. It immediately put me what I felt. I didn't want to be better than anyone in the room. I just wanted to be on the same level. Then taking it to this level of becoming a public person and getting to have my own TV show at 14, I realized early on that I was introducing myself to the world in a body that I was. not comfortable with and that people tend to marry themselves to the first image they have of you or at the very least the image that they fall in love with like Jennifer Aniston could win an Oscar one day but she'll always be Rachel Green because people loved friends they loved it I

interviewed Zach Braff for my podcast once and he told this story about how I don't know I think it's George Clooney's story but how Russell Crowe and George Clooney were on a plane in the early 2000s and Russell being this gigantic movie star and George was still mostly known for being on ER. And he said, and they both get off the plane and people are sort of afraid to approach Russell just because he's like this mysterious big movie star. And then they see George walk out and they go, George! Like, because they invited him into their homes and you feel like this person's a part of your life. Or like Steve Correll like is one of our greatest living actors, but he'll always be Michael Scott on some level.

And it's not a negative. Like I say in the book, you can't pick what triggers the zeit guys. You can't pick your hits. This is why Billy Joel doesn't do Uptown Girl anymore. Because he's like, it's enough with the Uptown Girl. Like, we're, Christy Brinkley and I are divorced. So I tried to erase my origin story for a long time. I tried to make the world forget that I was ever that way.

I hated that kid for a long time for being that out of control and for doing this to our body. But it took an even longer time to really have a love for that kid and to know that he was strong in a way that I don't have to be strong in that way anymore. I don't have to deal with what 14-year-old, 15-year-old Josh was dealing with. And he was just doing the best he could with what he was equipped with. So I have a lot of love for that kid now, but it took a long time. How did you get there?

I think a lot of people resonate with that experience. I know that I do of like hating their younger self or hating decisions that their younger self made. I have so many decisions I made when I was young and stupid that impact my life to this day. Is there any advice that you could share about how you got to that loving your former self? And maybe also I'm curious for forgiving that person too. I certainly think it helps to get to a place as an adult where you're proud of where you are, probably, which is not easy. Like, I think the highest spirituality to be like, even if you're unhappy in your life as an adult,

if you can make peace with your childhood, then you're operating at a Jedi level of emotional health. But no, I think you have to like think of your entire life as an amalgamation of moments and experience and opportunity. And it could have gone a million different ways, maybe some better, some worse. But like, if you're at peace with where your life is today, having my wife and my son, being married to, I'm married to having the kind of kid that I have, being in a place where like I'm not driving a Ferrari, but I don't have to sweat it financially because I spent

so much of my life like that, I'm overpaid. I'm completely overpaid today. And when you read the book, you'll see, like, there were so many moments that I probably could have taken more advantage of opportunities and maybe been in a different place professionally or whatnot. But I wouldn't be exactly where I am today. And by the way, it's a long life. Thankfully, I chose a profession where you can do it to your 90. So I don't know if that's a good answer, but I think it really helps to be happy with where you are now to start accepting what it took to get here. And then on the flip side, there's like the dealing with people who don't want you to change.

I found it so interesting in the book who are the people who are like, no, no, there's these larger comedians that are iconic and you need to stay a certain size to be funny to follow in these footsteps. And I think that's such a resonant experience. Like, no, no, I want to change, but the people around me won't let me. How do you transcend that? It was such a surprise. I mean, when I started losing weight, people would say, like, you really have a good niche.

It's crazy. You have a thing. You're one of three, like, of like, funny, capable chubby kids. And I just said, but if I could be a movie star and rich tomorrow, but I had to stay besides forever, I'd rather work a normal nine to five and have none of it and just be at a healthy weight. I just knew that from early on. And so there was that. And then, yeah, I mean, people, again, they marry themselves to the person you are that they fall in love with. And then when I lost the weight, it was almost, people felt like I had taken that away from them.

Not everyone. It wasn't the majority, but there were enough people where I could like notice at certain comments were just like, you were funnier. you were fat or stop trying so hard. And I think people felt in some way like I'd taken away this guy that they'd love. Yeah, it's more about them and their needs than it ever was about you. Yeah. Maybe you're mad that I changed. I think that's hard to reconcile with. And also, like, I've been lucky enough to do a handful of these interviews for the book. And someone said to me last week where it's like 35 years later, I had never considered this. She said, you know, maybe also people like the fact that you weren't threatening. And so many actors and people

in the public eye are like so physically elite, not that I am now, but just like that you love them, but you also kind of feel bad that maybe you don't look that way. And people felt comfort in the fact that you weren't that guy. I was like, oh. That's interesting. But then it becomes like a boundary issue, right? It's like you can only be responsible. for yourself and your emotions and when you try to take on everybody else's impressions of you and needs of you, that it just doesn't work. Right. I very rarely get genuinely excited about skincare, but this is one of the most innovative products

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And when they ask you where you heard about us, please make sure to mention the show. That is at branch basics.com and use code Liz Moody. You talk about how you lost weight in like a pretty boring way, despite everybody publicly wanting you to have like a secret or something like that. And I think for me, the what worked to lose weight is almost less interesting than the why. Like, you could have always eaten a little bit less. You could have always worked out a little bit more.

But you never chose to before the moment that you did choose to. So I'm curious if you have any insight into that moment where you were able to make that change. You know, I was 17 and I think I was on TV, right? So I would have opportunities to go to parties and be, you know, wonderfully adolescent and have those experiences. But I constantly held myself back. I desperately, like, wanted to kiss a girl and to have a teenager's experience. And I just knew that I was wasting these years, you know, staying home and alphabetizing my DVDs while my friends were outliving. There were a couple things. My mom had dealt with weight stuff her entire life. And so I knew early on between my mom and

I, that food was a menacing force to the pecks. This food thing is a no-bueno for my family. And like, if I don't grab this by the horns, like I'm going to waste a lot of time. And then I also fell in love with acting when I was 14. I started going to acting class with people like Evan Rachel Wood and Evan Peters and Pen Badgey and Mae Whitman, all these great young actors. And I was like, wow, like this is what I dream of doing. But I knew that as the funny, chubby guy you were relegated to two roles, which was the bully or the best friend. And there was no one like Jud Apatow at the time who was giving non-traditional leading men great parts. So I wound up booking this movie when I was 16 called Mean Creek. And I did play

a bully in that movie, but it was this little independent movie where this bully was totally tragic, this character. And what we come to find out is he deeply wanted friends. And he had like this learning disability that hindered him in life and his ability in which to connect. And you feel so bad for him. And the reaction was incredible. And suddenly I was like, oh, I can do this too. But I can't wait another 10 years for a part like this to come around. So basically what happened was that along with really being at a total bottom at 17 years old, realizing like I was sick and tired of being sick and tired of trying to do it my own way and being heavier than I'd ever been, that I was sort of finally ready to face it. So would you say that you just became aware of the

fact that there were things you wanted more? Yeah, it was a perfect storm of all those things of professionally wanting to have more opportunity socially and emotionally, feeling like I was missing out on life. And there was just like a chip on my shoulder that I've had my whole life and still have to the stay for better or for worse, which was like, I know people have an image of who they think I am and it's incumbent on me to shatter it. What's your relationship with your body now? I mean, you're still working on screen and Hollywood obviously is very image conscious. So I'm curious how that impacts your relationship with your body to this day. Now, full circle, like being a dad, I've had a pretty good like physical regimen of working out for the last 10 years.

I did it long enough that somehow I like it now. And I've always sort of vacillated 10 to 15 pounds, but it's always between like 180 and 200 pounds. I'm like usually in that ballpark and only go up and down a couple pounds for the most part, although I don't really weigh myself because that's a whole other thing. But all that being said, like I still have skin that got stretched out from being overweight. And I will still read, I'm doing how I met your father now for Hulu. or I did a few episodes of the first season.

I remember specifically, like, there's a scene where me and Hillary Duff and it says, my character whips their shirt off, and I'm just like, oh, God. And it's fine. For a 35-year-old guy, I'm like in probably better shape than a lot of guys my age. But I still, like, there are remnants of my past. And I just have to, like, suck it up and not be mad at myself if I have to, like, go over to the director and be like, if it doesn't sacrifice anything for you, could we perhaps pick a flattering angle?

Yeah, but you know what? I have to make my peace with it all the time, that if we go on vacation and I take my shirt off at the pool, that I might get a look or two, and it just is what it is. Do you feel like there's a niche for you now? Do you feel like those people who are like, no, no, you need to be like the fat, funny guy. Was there any truth in that? Or like, I hear at Hollywood actresses say all the time, you have to look a certain way to be a leading lady.

And then if you don't, you're relegated to, like, the quirky best friend or something like that. Do you feel like your current look has a niche in Hollywood? No, I think I look like a nice looking normal guy. Is that allowed in Hollywood? Like, I feel like, I don't know. I never see somebody who looks like me on camera. You don't? I don't know.

No, I don't feel like it. I don't look like Hillary Duff. Sure you do. I feel like you've got like that Kaylee Cuoco, Hillary. Yeah. Also, I mean, like Steve Correll's super famous and I mean, obviously this is the ultimate 1% But like Brian Cranston's no supermodel, you know, like they're nice looking dudes, but I feel like they could totally be your friend's dad. Yeah, that's true.

And obviously I think you're like a very attractive human. I'm just curious. No, no worries. I agree. Again, I always say like I think I'm nice looking for a normal person. That's how I feel. I always say that I feel like I'm good looking for how smart I am and I'm sweet. art for how good looking I am. And where I'm interesting is like where those two meet, but I don't

think I'm like outstanding in either category. Yeah, to your point, I think like I certainly sometimes, like if I see someone who's really stunning, like a beautiful dude with like those cheekbones and like, I'll be like, bro, I hope you can even act a little because you're about to get a lot of opportunity and good for you. And conversely, if you look like a really kooky, different wacky look, like that can be great too. But at the end of the day, we've gone through the last four or five years where I've heard a lot of my friends who are like white guy leading men, maybe not even like leading men, just like white guy actors have been like, there's no parts for me. It's all about diversity. And I'm like, oh, shut up. There weren't enough parts for us for like the last since movies have existed.

We've sort of had it okay for a while. And by the way, then be undeniable. There's no way that they're going to be like, this guy's the next Daniel Day Lewis, but we're going to go, like, just be better. And so for me, it's always been like, if my look or whatever has been a hindrance or a help or whatever, it's always just pushed me to try to be a better actor so that, you know, I'm the right guy for the right thing. Yeah, I love that. I actually really love that.

Okay, so you lose the weight and then you enter your drug year's phase. Oh, yeah. What was the first time that you used drugs and what? What prompted that? I did it because of a girl because she paid me attention. And she pulled drugs out. And I was like, are we in Pulp Fiction? Who does cocaine?

And I mean, like, I told to blunt on a roof at my friend's, like, apartment in Chinatown in New York a couple of times, but never, like, been around proper, like, felony-level narcotics. I couldn't believe it. And I said, no, when offered it, but I, like, made this secret resolution in my head that at the right time and the right moment, I will say yes. And of course, the universe conspires to help you when you've decided to do bad things because a few days later, I found myself in a bathroom with that girl. And I had no idea what to expect when she sort of presented it to me.

I wasn't looking to get high. I wasn't looking to do anything. All I cared about was I hoped she was watching because I wanted to be typical and I wanted to be cool to her. And I did it. I went to a party that night and felt utterly confident and attractive and cool. And I took that deep breath that I had been seeking my entire life where I sort of felt like the volume get turned down on that committee in my head. And it was the most insidious declaration that had ever been made in my life, which was, oh, if I could feel like this, why would I ever want to feel any other way? So then that said, what was the impetus for getting sober? And how did that process look for you? Oh, I set my life on fire. I ruined, you know, a lot of relationships with people

that I'd been working for 10 years as an actor. I was quickly becoming unreliable and unhinged. Yeah, that Judd Apatow email that you share in the book was like heartbreaking. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not like Judd likes working with funny Jewish guys like me. So probably wouldn't have gone anywhere. But when I finished Drake and Josh, I auditioned for a Judd Apatown movie. He was producing called Joe Bitt Taylor. And Judd was cool enough to say, you know, you're really not right for the part you audition for, but you're funny. So just we'll write you a small part in the movie, come and be funny, hang out, write jokes, and we'll figure out scenes to put you in. And so I come, and I'll never forget, the first couple of days actually went well. And he even mentioned,

he's like, hey, you know, I'm also working on this other movie right now. Maybe you want to come by set and try to write something for that. Maybe you could do something funny in there, too. And I was like, oh yeah, what's the movie called? And he said, super bad. And I was like, yeah, I'll try to make it. And I didn't make it. And I basically proceeded, as I say, I wasn't a monster. I was just a bummer. And I would show up late and hang on my trailer, not writing jokes for people. And one particular day, I was like warned by other people on set, like, yo, don't show up late. Judd's going to be here that day. Like, do not show up late. And of course, I was 45 minutes late. And I went home to an email from him just basically like saying even then in a pretty lovely way but honestly and

without holding punches like this is unacceptable and this won't work here or anywhere else because you cost us money and time when you're late and he he was ice I have to say like you're great with the comedy but your professionalism needs work I've since been able to make amends to Judd and he's he was awesome then he is awesome now and I think about it 100. times more throughout my life than he ever has. So it was moments like that and also just ruining relationships and basically treating my body like a pool that needed a chlorine treatment. Like it just was bad. I knew that if I didn't get sober when I did, that it could result in hospitals or jail or worse. To me, the interesting thing about getting sober is that it's not just about

not using drugs or not using alcohol. In a lot of ways, it's about reshaping, like your whole whole world outlook so that you don't need drugs or alcohol or in your case like that's how you were using food it seems like earlier in your life so I'm curious if there's anything that you learned not about sobriety particularly but about being like a human in the world and not needing those things that you could share well I think that in 12 step it says the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking like you don't even have to be done yet. You just kind of have to be flirting with the idea that maybe one day you don't want to do that anymore, which is great because it's all are welcome. And sometimes you have to like plant

some seeds of truth for like a truth forest to sprout up later when you're truly miserable and open to change. What I came to find out once I got sober from drugs and alcohol and started to do some work on myself was that my disease was rested in my dis-ease. My mind wants me uncomfortable. and it breaks from the social contract. It tells me that I need to live in the world that I deserve instead of the world that is. It tells me that you need to treat me a certain way and I need to think of myself a certain way. And if all these things are firing perfectly in perfect unison for just like this orgy of good feeling, then and only then will I be able to feel comfortable in my body.

And of course, that's impossible to achieve. And even if I could, it probably wouldn't be ever be enough. And so my mind keeps me in an uncomfortable state. And that's when I want to use food or drugs and alcohol to numb myself to turn the voices down a little bit. That's what I was doing at 12 and just didn't know it. Right? I was just like, oh, just food tastes good. But, you know, you don't get to 300 pounds randomly at 15 because you feel great about life.

So yeah, I certainly have had to look at all those negative patterns and do the work to face them. And you're never completely free of it, but you turn the volume down enough to where it no longer rules you in that way. How do you turn the volume down? I would like to know. It's like age old tenants, which is, again, the unfortunate, boring sort of answer to so many things. It's like, esteemable acts build self-esteem. I didn't know that. I was like, I was like, I don't like myself. I was like, I'm not self-centered. I hate myself.

And someone said to me, well, if you spend all day thinking about how great you are or how awful you are, you're self-centered. And when I got sober, sort of like, the idea was spend the first year thinking about you and just get a year under your belt. And if you put on 20 pounds, if you smoke a pack a day, if you hook up with someone in AA, which you probably shouldn't be doing, like, just. do what you got to do. The only thing you have to do perfectly is don't drink and don't you do drugs. And then when you get a year, start working on everything else. And when you are

uncomfortable, you can have, you know, five minutes to worry about your finances or your life or your petty little, like, because we all have our own sad story. And then get busy helping someone else. It's literally the only thing that I have found to be true no matter what all the time, which is help your fellow's boat to the other side and yours two will cross. I can't think my way into right acting. I have to act my way into right thinking. I need to physically disrupt the bad feedback loop going on in my mind. So what does that look like on a day-to-day basis?

Are there any daily practices that you do to keep your mental health in a level good place? sometimes my spiritual maintenance is beautiful and sometimes I'm just like the best thing I'm doing is not creating more wreckage. But it tends to be, I try, you know, first and foremost, a child is a great distraction from yourself if you let them be. If you stay obsessed with yourself with a kid is when having a kid becomes a real bummer and you become a bad parent. But if you can allow them to distract from you because they're this wonderful source of like constant need, it's just a great excuse. So I wake up most mornings with my son. I cook him breakfast. And sometimes it's just like a protein bar and some almond milk or whatever he's in the mood for.

Cook. Cook him breakfast. Usually cook means I'm like heating up like waffles. And then I take him to school. So I try to let my wife have the morning a little bit to herself. And then, you know, like I get busy and I get to work and I try to do some physical exercise to just get all those natural good sort of endorphins going. And then just doing my best to like be of service first and foremost to my family and my mom's older. She's almost 80. And then if I really operating at a high level, doing good deeds and trying not to get caught doing them. Do you think that's an important part of it? Because if you're trying to get caught, does that mean you're doing it for yourself, which negates the good deed? Yeah, I think you're probably getting something good out of it, but it's not as good as if you

didn't take credit. And sometimes I can do it, sometimes not. Like if a friend's like going through something or like if I get sent to GoFund me, like half the time I'll send it from anonymous and half the time my ego makes me write my name there. Because I'm like, I want them to know that I put a hundred bucks towards, you know, their cousin's funeral. It's dark. It's dark. I know. I still find myself more in the latter category. Like I will do the nice thing. But there is the part of me that wants the credit for it and I would like to transcend more into the I mean it's good to like it's better than not doing the nice thing at all but I'd like to transcend into the former category more often or like just something innocuous is like cleaning up

the extra cart or two that you see in a parking lot and like returning it little things like that because it's so easy like I'm going to tell on myself now so it's I don't get credit anymore But like my son and I, we frequent parks. And especially in L.A., like some of the parks can be pretty messy. And so I just made this game and my wife hates it. She's like, you wonder why our kid's sick all the time? Because like if he's running at the park and there's like a water bottle or a piece of trash, I was here, let's clean this up because this is our park.

Like we get to use this and enjoy it so we can help and clean it keeping it clean. And I'm trying to instill something good for him. but also like just being aware of that's not someone else's problem. Do you meditate or anything like that? I try to and the times which I have have been great. Ryan Holiday had told me this great quote of like, the dirty secret about meditation is no one's doing it. Obviously people are, but like it's very...

Is he doing it? I assume he's doing it. No. No. But like your thing can be an active meditation, right? It can be, I know Ryan talks a lot about just these. walks, he takes in the morning with his kids. And I know how much that means Sam. So maybe that's his sort of centering thing. But meditation's great. I should do it. I also feel like with the

amount that he reads, reading is like a form of meditation for him. And I find that for myself as well, like becoming really immersed in words on a page. Just that that active focus of reading, I find really helpful. Yeah, totally. When you think about strength and resilience, like your ability to feel energized, to recover well, to stay strong as you get older, what do you? What do you? you think that actually comes from? Most people say working out or good nutrition and yes, of course that matters. But there is a biological foundation underneath all of that that most people are completely overlooking. I have been diving deep into this lately with the team at timeline and what I've learned has genuinely shifted how I think about my own health. Every single movement that

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Head to marlyspoon.com slash offer slash Liz Moody for up to 25 free meals. That is right, up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. That is Marley Spoon.com slash offer slash Liz Moody. So remember to get the offer in there. Marley spoon.com slash offer slash Liz Moody for up to 25 free meals. I'm so interested. Like speaking of the idea of filling holes with all of those things, one of my personal fascinations is the idea of this like moment in people's lives

when they get the thing that they've been working for forever. And it feels like all of their dreams like should have come true. And then they realize that it doesn't actually create the happiness or the fulfillment that they thought it was. And I feel like you've had that moment more than a lot of people. Like I'm thinking about landing Drake and Josh. I'm thinking about landing the whackness. I'm thinking about getting into Sundance.

I'm also thinking about things like getting sober or losing weight. Can you speak to that? Like I thought this would fix everything, but it isn't fixing everything moment? Sure. I mean, my friend Paul Gilmartin tells us this great story about how he was interviewing this guy who was talking about like scaling Everest. and what the attempt look like. And then finally, like, reaching the peak

and looking out at the horizon and impulses. And when you reached the peak, was your father's love there? Whoa. You know, like Prince has that great quote of, like, I've been to the mountaintop. There's nothing there. Yeah. But yet, societally, we still,

there's something easier about believing that this one moment is all we need to achieve. achieve to find that thing. Like the journey is forever and one moment feels almost like more graspable. Yeah, I think we're conditioned by it. I think it's that the ego is insatiable. I love the quote, my ego needs a nonstop banquet and my soul is okay with a crouton. So I have to be cognizant of that. And I talk about it in my book, obviously there was three and a half, almost four years of utter demoralization using drugs and alcohol and blowing up my life. But the way it culminated for me, which was, I think, what was a huge reason why I got sober

was when things are going poorly, I'm comfortable in that because I had a suspicion about my life since I was a kid that like things weren't going to work out. So when things are going poorly, I'm like, oh, this tracks. And I just put my head down and I just grin and bear it because I know how to do that. When things are going well, I get really uncomfortable. And I remember when I was 21. I did this movie called The Wackness with my favorite actor, Sir Ben Kingsley. And it was this New York story about hip hop in 1994. And I was like, I did it. I'm acting with my favorite actor in a grown-up role as an adult. And I dreamed of going to Sundance. And the movie makes it to Sundance. And I'm at the screening. And Quentin Tarantino is there. And I dreamed of making a movie that

that headline Sundance, and I couldn't believe it. And I did it. I wasn't the chubby, funny guy, and I wasn't the kid actor. I was a proper actor. And the reviews are coming in, and they're like outstanding and everything I dreamed of. And I go to bed that night, and I think I just on some level thought I'd wake up a different guy the next morning. And then as soon as I woke up and said, oh, no, Josh is still here. I got up and I told everyone in the house we were at, which was all the people involved in the movie, I'm leaving.

And they were like, are you nuts? You have a hit movie. Stick around. Like, this never happens. No one gets to feel this. And I was like, I got to go. And because I just couldn't, the jig was up. I knew.

I was like, oh, I am bottomless. You know, I tried food. I tried drugs and alcohol. And now I'm trying prestige and success. None of it will fill me up. And I got sober two weeks later. Do you think, like, you're surrounded by these. incredibly successful people, like these people that we put on magazine covers that were like,

our lives will be good if we had this level of money and this level of fame. Do you think that works for anybody? Like just in the communities that you're in, have you seen anybody where you're like, wow, that did work for them? Like, they are happy because of this stuff. There are people who are different than me. I don't know how other, my mom was using this term. It's like a French term. They're raison d'etra. Like their chief, their life is about, ambition. It's about crushing it. It's not just like a part of their life. It is their life. And if that's the case, like, yeah, there are certain people who like aren't necessarily too preoccupied with having a kid or a family and they can just like stay driven. I look at Bill Maher, who I love

Bill Maher and I think about a guy who's like, it seems as though he's like utterly pleased. He doesn't have kids. When he's not doing his HBO show, he's like out on the road. I'm like, still in your mid-60s you want to go do like, you know, and he's not doing Zanis in North Dakota, he's doing a theater show in Hawaii, but still I'm like, you're not over yet, but he's not. And I think that's dope. I just know it's not me. Do you think that as somebody who was raised on and off welfare, do you think that becoming wealthier has impacted your happiness? Totally. Fran Leibowitz has a great quote of, there are people who worry about money and then there

are people who have none. It's inescapable, right, for the world in which we live in. And so, yeah, I think having like a baseline level of financial security, which is my wife and I and my son are okay for a good amount of time and doesn't mean we can like jump on a bunch of first class flights and go by, you know, a Bentley. But it just means like we're going to be okay. Like I can make my card payment. You know, I can pay for a nice preschool.

That's given me a lot of security. And I'm lucky enough that I get to like help out my mom too and that I feel like I'm so overpaid and so taking care of by having had a great mom and now like a great wife and a great kid. And my role in this system is to be the provider. Do you think that the people that you work with or know that are making like huge amounts, like the private jet money, the Bentley money, all of that? Like, do you think they are happier because of that? you kind of have a front row seat to that.

There have been so many studies about like once you reach, I think it's somewhere around like a little bit over $80,000 a year of income. Like it's infinitesimal. But nobody believes that. That's why I'm curious about your personal. Like I hear the studies too, but then I'm like, I don't know. I feel like I would be happy on this beach resort in Bali or if I never had to go through airport security because my car just like drove me over to the plane.

Like, it's hard to believe that that wouldn't make you feel good. Yeah, no, I think money, if it doesn't own you, it can be a great resource to, A, help people, which is, like, nonstop good feelings, like altruism is, like, the only thing to me that, like, hits, like, a drug. And then, you know, the only thing we can't replenish on this earth is our time, right? Our time is finite. A private jet surely saves you time. Yes, there are ways in the world.

which money can allow you to have more time to do more things. But again, I don't know, maybe it's like, maybe it's all a hoax. But even when you hear like Warren Buffett still going to like dairy queen and whatnot or eating at McDonald's, all the people that I've met who aren't completely miserable and absurdly wealthy, the money was never the thing. It's like they're still doing it. They're still waking up and like going to work every morning. And a byproduct of being incredibly hardworking and good at what they do, happens to be excessive riches. All right. So three quick fires from you just to end.

One, you've been incredibly successful on social media. And you also have a lot of friends who are kind of like the forefathers of social media. I'm thinking like Casey Nystatt and stuff like that. Could you share for anybody listening who would like to find social media success? Maybe one thing that you've learned that could be helpful for them and one thing that somebody has taught you. that would be helpful for them? Casey has a great quote, which is the right time is always right now.

So the good and the bad news is, the good news is there are no gatekeepers anymore. You don't need to live in a coastal city or have an agent or a manager to find success in media, but there's also no more excuses, right? So like, if you have a reasonable Android or iPhone, you have enough video power to create content.

So start. You have to start. Because for me, when I started my YouTube channel, it was dismal for a year. It was like that year was an R&D time for me to figure out what I was doing that didn't work. And what I was doing that didn't work was I wasn't being truthful with who I was. I was trying to do my best impression of a vlogger of people who do well on YouTube. Instead of embracing my particular talents, and we all have that special something. My acting teacher goes like, oh, it says, embrace your sparkle. So it's that willingness

to be honest with like who you are and what you want to convey. And I do think that sometimes we need to almost like mimic people to figure out what our own sparkle is. Like I think that can be a helpful process of trying out what other people are doing and then having that. Because I think it can be hard to just say like, do your skill, find your sparkle. And you're like, what is my sparkle? Like, how do I find that? Right. Totally. And then. And then. Is there any advice you would have personally? Is that to find your sparkle? Yeah. And when I interviewed Neil Brennan on my podcast, male models, he's a genius comedian. He helped create the Chappelle Show. And he always says, the only thing more interesting than an incredible joke is an honest moment.

So I think honesty is really truth and honesty and vulnerability is rewarded in this day and age because we're getting so much damn content. and everything that we see on social media is so curated and filtered. So when people are willing to be honest and not just in a manipulative, like look at me way, I think it's really compelling. I love that. I think that's really powerful. You've interviewed hundreds of people who are like leading people in their fields for your podcast. I would love if you could share anything that somebody said that has changed your life

in a tangible way on a day-to-day basis. Oh, man. That's such a good question. Look, Neil Brennan said, and I talk about it in the last sort of chapter of the book, he said, you'll probably get what you always wanted, just not in the way you expected it. And then he paused and he said, actually, you'll probably get what you always wanted, but by the time you get it, you won't want it anymore. And I think that's been very true. How has that impacted you on a day-to-day basis? Again, it's just like this idea of like finish lines and, you know, this ill. fix me. And instead, it's just people, they're always asking me, like, what's next? It's the thing I don't like about acting, right? Because no one asks a dentist, like, what's next? He's like, I don't know, more molars. Like, you know, it's like, what's next? What do you want to do what's your dream wrong? It's like, I have no idea. Whatever I do next will be the next right thing. I love that.

And then, I mean, that leads me to your book is obviously called Happy People Are Annoying. what are your thoughts on happiness now? What place does happiness have in your life? I think like happiness is this intangible, transient, temporary feeling that'll come in and out of your life. And the universe demands balance. So that the one thing I know for sure is as sure as goodness is coming into your life, challenging times you're coming as well. And they'll be intertwined in this ballet forever until the end of time. And that too much sunshine, brings about a desert. So the good times are here to remind us what we're fighting for. That's beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Josh. I love this conversation. I love chatting with you. You're awesome.

I hope you loved this episode with Josh. I thought he was just so kind and lovely and just like a good human with a beautiful way of looking at the world. If you love the episode, I would so appreciate a quick rating or review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. I have a goal of 2000 podcast reviews on Apple Podcasts and we are so close. If even a 10th of you listening went and wrote a review right now, we would surpass it by thousands. And like, I know writing podcast review sucks, but it takes literally 30 seconds and it is a wonderful way to support the show. Of course, the best way to support the show is to share it. So please do shoot someone a link to either a favorite episode or the whole show and let them pick. It massively helps grow this community and it is so

appreciated. Also, it gives you someone to talk about the episodes with. Okay, I love you. Have a wonderful week and I will see you next Wednesday on the next episode of the Healthyer Together podcast. I mean, if you are subscribed to the Healthy Together podcast, so make sure that you are. Okay, I love you. Bye.