The Liz Moody Podcast - Laura Lea—Overcoming Insomnia and Anxiety & Discovering The Life You’re Meant To Live

Episode Date: September 4, 2019

I’m so excited to share this episode with you, featuring my amazing friend Laura Lea. Laura Lea is the woman behind Laura Lea Balanced, the blog and mega-successful cookbook, The Laura Lea Balanced Cookbook. Laura Lea is a natural foods chef, and one of those women who just exudes self-assuredness—she feels like she really knows who she is, and what she wants, and isn’t afraid to go after it, even if it differs from society’s expectations. We get into so much in this episode, from the crippling insomnia and anxiety that was taking over her life at one point, to her divorce, to balancing her hormones and getting her period back after years without it, to quitting her corporate job to go after her dreams. You can find all of the products she mentioned in this episode at lizmoody.com/shop, and you can find Laura Lea on Instagram at @lauraleabalanced and on her blog, llbalanced.com. Definitely tag us both (@lizmoody & @lauraleabalanced) with your feedback or thoughts on the episode, and any other questions you’d like us to answer! Enjoy! PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy right here or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! This episode is sponsored by Simple Mills, one of my favorite grain free food brands. I’ve been using Simple Mills products for years, starting with their amazing cake mixes. They’ve since expanded the line, which now includes the original cake mixes, pizza dough mix, brownie mix, bread mix, pancake & waffle mix, ready made crackers and cookies, and more. Everything has only a few simple, largely organic ingredients, and there are no weird gums or emulsifiers. You can use the code “healthiertogether20” for 20% off any order on simplemills.com, and if you need product recommendations, don’t hesitate to ask me for them on Instagram (@lizmoody). This episode is also sponsored by Natural Cycles, the first hormone-free contraception app that’s FDA approved and CE marked in Europe. Natural Cycles has been shown to have effectiveness rate of 93% with typical use and 98% effective with perfect use—for reference, the efficacy of the pill is 91% with typical use. I’ve partnered with Natural Cycles to do a little mini-diary of my experience with it on the Healthier Together podcast. Every episode, I’ll give you an update of how it’s going and what I’m learning about my body and my cycle, as I explore the app in real time. Have questions you want answered? Hit me up @lizmoody on Instagram and I’ll share in future episodes. You can find out more info at NaturalCycles.com. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. If we haven't met yet, hi, I'm Liz Moody. I'm the author of The Healthier Together Cookbook and a longtime writer for publications like Mind Body Green, Goop, Marie Claire, Vogue, and a ton of others. And of course, I am the host of this here podcast. I am so excited to share this episode with you, which is featuring my amazing friend, Laura Lee. Laura Lee is the woman behind Laura Lee Balance, which is a blog and a mega successful

cookbook that was released a few years back. She's actually just finishing up her follow-up book right now, which we talk about in this episode. So definitely be on the lookout for that because I am positive. It's one you will want to add to your collection. Laura Lee is a natural food chef. She actually went to culinary school. She went to one of the two natural foods culinary schools in the country. And our food philosophies are super, super similar, which we connected about immediately.

I actually had her on as one of the special guests at my Nashville book tour stop. And she kept stealing all of my answers because we have like the same. secret pantry staples like onion powder, which makes absolutely everything taste better. And Tamari, which is one of my favorite ways to add umami to everything. But apparently it's one of hers too. So she'd say the answer first and I'd have to come up with a whole different one. We also love both like we love like super comforting, delicious childhood flavors but made really healthy.

So we connected about that for sure. I say this in the episode, but Laura Lee is one of those women who just exudes selfish sureness. She feels like she really knows who she is and what she wants and she isn't afraid to go after it, even if it differs from society's expectations. But man, she has gone through some stuff to get there. We get into so much in this episode from the crippling insomnia and anxiety that was taking over her life at one point. We talk about that a lot. So if you've suffered from insomnia or anxiety, I am positive that you will have some amazing takeaways from this episode, I definitely did. We talk about her divorce and her relationships. We talk about balancing

her hormones and getting her period back after years without it. We talk about how she quit her corporate job to go after her dreams and to go to culinary school and write her cookbook and all of that. And that was a really interesting story for me because we talk about both like the logistical stuff, like how did you get enough money to take a chance like that in your life? But also the more mental stuff, which is like, how did you get the gumption to take that kind of leap, which I think is really scary for a lot of people. So if you're looking to make a big life change, I think you will learn or just even contemplating, you know, going after your dream life. I think you'll take a lot from this. I love this episode. I learned so much from it in these very specific,

actionable ways. Like, I'm definitely going to be trying her morning wellness tonic, but also in a larger way. Like, this is how. how you come into yourself as a self-actualized human. Like, this is how you become who you were meant to be. She's so open and she is so funny. And she also has the cutest cat that I have ever seen in my life. Like, truly, it was hard for me to pay attention to the interview at points because the cat was so darn cute.

So definitely follow her on Instagram at Laura Lee Balance. That's Lee spelled L-E-A. So is Laura L-E-A balanced and on her blog, L-L-L-Balance.com. Speaking of fascinating women, have you joined the LM Book Club over on Instagram? We're talking about three women, which is about three fascinating women by Lisa Todaya, who is another fascinating woman this month. And I think, I don't want to jinx it, but we're trying to work out a date for her to come on the podcast so we can talk about the state of sex among women today.

But in the meantime, this book, it blew my mind, and I cannot wait to discuss it with you. To join, you just have to read the book, which I announce on Instagram. I'm at Liz Moody. I'm sure you guys all know that every month. And then we have an insta live date where we drink wine and we discuss it. And as you know, with most book clubs, you're sort of starting off by discussing the book. But then it goes off into life. And, you know, all of the tangents of the things that books make us think about, which is one of the reasons they're so incredible.

So I'm sure this one's going to be fascinating. It's about the whole book. It's about sex and relationship. So I think there's going to be a lot of a lot of good tangent. there. I am obsessed with reading. Like, I'm a fan girl for it. I'm an evangelist for it. I write the monthly books column for Mind Body Green. And I love this book club. So come talk with us about three women this weekend. Even if you didn't read it, you can just come and talk about sex with us. You can talk about relationships with us. I think it'll be really, really fun. And then I'll

announce the next book so you can read it for September. All right, I hope you love this episode. feel free to screenshot it as you're listening and tag me and Laura Lee and tell us what's resonating with you or any questions you have or any of that. I love, love, love getting to continue the conversation from here over to actually getting the feedback from all of you and hearing what you think. So I cannot wait to hear from you. And enjoy Laura Lee on the healthier together podcast. All right, Laura Lee, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm sitting in your stunning, stunning home. I always like to give a sense of place at the beginning of a podcast. and you have the cutest.

It's very calming and soothing and feminine, but not in like an annoying girly way at your home. It's like blue tones and... Yeah, a little blue and kind of like coral is my favorite look. And I fell in love with it because it just has so much light. Like, people can't see, but there's my... An entire wall is garage doors. I don't even...

I'm so... I try to take food photos in my stupid New York City apartment. It's so hard. I have like two windows. Yeah. Yeah. it. It's really hard. Even actually where I used to live, even though it was a lot more like, what's the word square footage, there were so, to find good food photography lighting is so hard.

And this has actually made the cookbook writing process easier because there's just more times of the day that are available. Like I had. Wait, so do you do all your own photography? Yeah, I do my photography. Yeah. That's insane. I feel like the reason I enjoy writing cookbooks is because it's the only time I don't have to do the photos. See, I love. and free from it. I love doing it. I'm obsessed with it. I probably like it as much as I like the development of the recipes. That's so interesting. Okay. So you're writing your second cookbook now. Can we start off by just telling me a little bit about that? Because I know your first cookbook was such a huge hit. What's the vibe of the second? Thank you. So the vibe of the second, so sort of like big picture,

it's not dramatically different. I'm not trying to like reinvent the wheel or follow a specific theme. I mean, I thought about it. I thought about, you know, lorley holiday or whatever but i really didn't want to do that because the premise of my business i really want it to be like family friendly a little bit of something for everybody really accessible so the structure of the book is very similar and it's you know approachable comfort food inspired like repeat ingredients kind of um a lot of information in the beginning about the why and the and you know the details about why i choose what i do and my sort of health tenants. What are your health tenants? So, I mean, I would say the biggest picture things are

more about mindset than they are about food. I think that's at the crux of what most women struggle with, at least, that's what I see is what's more effective than changing somebody's diet is changing their perspective about the choices that they make. So for me, it's really about like getting rid of the dogma and the dieting mentality. And I think that's, why I don't sort of exclude any one particular thing. I mean, my first cookbook was gluten-free and dairy-free, but it was almost accidentally that way. I didn't really set out to make it follow those specific, you know, food rules.

I was just playing around with those more because I wanted to offer people creative alternatives that they do need that. But I would say it's, you know, the concept of balance, not as we think of balance traditionally, which is like homeostasis, you know, I mean, that doesn't exist as far as I know. As far as I know, nobody lives a traditionally, you know, balanced life. But to me, balance is very synonymous with like intuition. So I find that people's lives will stay in a sense, in a place of what feels like balance, like a really sort of good comfort zone if they're tuned in to their body and their emotions,

because then you can adjust accordingly. It's when we're relying so externally on all this food, you know, and nutrition noise around us and all the gurus and all of that. That's when we get really out of whack because we end up going to extremes and we have no idea what actually our bio-individuality needs. So, yeah, I mean, balance, but in that particular sense, you know, indulging in moderation, but like also not in moderation is a big thing for me. And yeah, and then food that helps you keep a healthy perspective and mindset.

So what, like, bioindividuality is obviously important to you. What feels good for you from a dietary perspective? Yeah. So I'm really lucky because, honestly, I don't have, I'm allergic to mango, which is super weird. I know. Do you just get, like, rashy? Yeah. If I, so mango plus, like, sun exposure gives me what looks like the worst sun burn you've ever

had, like sun poisoning, basically. It's really strange. It's something about the enzymes. in the skin. And it actually happened for the first time when I was in college and I went and ate a bunch of mangoes because they were my favorite fruit. And then I went to the tanning bed. I know. That's so sad. Yeah. And then I went to a wedding. So I went to the tanning bed and then a wedding. And it doesn't show up for like 36 hours. So it was actually in the middle of the wedding when I felt this rash, like, come over my face. It was horrible. And I had a fever for like four days. And anyway, so honestly,

other than that, I don't have particular food intolerances or sensitivities. So like I can eat gluten and even like the bad quality and I can eat dairy like even the bad quality in moderation, you know, and really not notice much of a difference. And so I'm grateful for that, not just from a health perspective, but I do think it makes it easier for me to make food that's a little bit where there's a little bit of something for everybody. So I think for me, the foundation of like my food is just primarily things that are whole foods based, that are micro nutrient rich and that have fiber, but I'm pretty chill when it comes to like enjoying things, whether it's like a muffin from my local bakery or even like something that's like a little

more processed, you know, as a snack if I'm on a road trip or whatever. Yeah. So I mean, I don't like to use percentages like 80, 20, but I feel like it, yeah, but I feel like it kind of ends up being that way just by virtue of most of the time I want to feel good. And if I kind of like go to, far in the direction of eating all this stuff. It's more just energy related that I noticed rather than like physiological. But you weren't always like this. You have spoken before about how you suffered from an eating disorder at one point. Oh, yeah, for sure. So can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, absolutely. So I was, I guess orthorexic is probably the best word for it when I lived in New York from probably from 20, I would say 2011 to 2013 was when it was like pretty bad. No, that's not

true. 2010 to 2012 was when I was pretty severely orthorexic, which essentially just means that you need to be like perfectly healthy to the point where you're restricting calories. And it's a terrible mindset. And living in New York City and I was walking miles and miles and I was working out all the time. So even though I was technically eating three meals a day and snacking, it wasn't nearly enough calories for what my body was putting out. And I knew that. But it was totally control-based. And so I didn't eat anything that wasn't, that I didn't consider perfectly healthy in my own, you know, within my own food rules. And over the course of a couple years, lost, I mean, I was, I probably lost like 25 pounds from where I am now and was just in a

really, really dark place physically. And I thought I was being healthy. And I was, I was very much and sort of like the calorie counting kind of orthorexia. Like my version of healthy was taking like the box cake mix and putting in, you know, diet soda like a can of diet soda and then like sugar-free frosting and you know what I mean? It was just as low calorie as it could get. That was my jam. And then because I was like,

ooh, I'm healthy. I'm doing all this healthy stuff. I'm going to go to healthy culinary school. So I applied a culinary school at the Natural Gourmet Institute, which either is or will soon no long. longer be in existence. It's getting subsumed by the Institute of Culinary Education. So I think there will be a lot of the same professors or teachers and classes. But anyway, so I went to NGI, which was one of only two schools in the country where you get like a

certified chef, holistic chef degree. And that schooled me. I mean, what I thought was healthy when I went in there was I'm just miles from what I realized it is for me today still when I graduated. I mean, that's where I really learned about the importance of healthy fat and the importance of obviously eating enough and listening to your body, understanding hunger cues. And so by the time I graduated, I was much healthier, had a much better relationship with food. But it still took a few years after I, after I graduated, I moved back here to Nashville. And I would say it took a few years then to get to what I would consider like a pretty sustainable. place. And what what helped you get there? Like what was taking a few years? You know, I think a lot of

it was just challenging myself. I think I knew I knew in the back of my mind subconsciously and then in a much more obvious conscious way. I knew that I was orthoraxic because, you know, there were things I said no to because I was afraid of the menu and I would like if something was wrapped in a tortilla, like tear off parts of the tortilla. And so I still had these behaviors that I, I was conscious that they were not healthy behaviors. And so as that became something that I was willing to be aware of, I realized I didn't want to feel trapped by those rules. And so I just started to challenge myself and push myself and go out of my comfort zone. And I'm not saying that's the right thing to do for everybody. But I just started saying yes to all the dinners and like eating the whole burrito

and having a snickers, God forbid, things that like I don't even really crave, you know, in my life day to day, but that were really important steps, hurdles for me to jump over to get to a place of not being afraid of food. Do you like your body now? Yeah, I do. Like every day all the time? For the most, I mean, for the most part. So I will say my body, it was definitely underweight, but that was never the goal. Losing weight was a byproduct of my need to control my life because I was utterly miserable when I lived in the city. I was really anxious and probably depressed now, looking back on it. So the weight loss completely ensued from just feeling like food was the one thing that I could control day in and day out. I didn't like my body when it was that thin. I really

didn't like it. I had like no cur. I did not look womanly. I didn't look good. I looked like sickly. And so I really, and I mean, even at the time, I remember not liking the way I looked in the mirror, but sort of not putting together that it was happening because of these other choices I was making. my anxiety got a lot better after I started eating more healthily and went to culinary school and moved back to Nashville. That really helped my anxiety. But my anxiety still, I think for some personal reasons, was a struggle for a couple years after I moved. And I actually started taking anxiety medication. I started taking Cilexa, which is an SSRI. And my whole life, I've had like a really flat stomach just naturally. That's just not where fat has gone in my body.

And as soon as I went on that Calexa, I gained 10 peasant. pounds of like stomach, like middle body fat. And so it was only really obvious to me and probably someone who's known me my whole life. But I didn't feel totally comfortable with it just because it didn't feel like my body, you know. And I wasn't used to dressing for it. I mean, that sounds silly because it wasn't so much like something I thought was good or bad or right or wrong. It's just I'd always been someone who wore like pretty tight tank tops and wore like crop tops and stuff like that. So I had to change in my wardrobe. And I also didn't like that it was related to the fact that I was on medication.

So I was a little uncomfortable with my body for a couple years. I actually just weaned off of Slexa a couple months ago. I was on it for a couple years. And like within, so the way, first of all, let me just preface this by saying I worked with two professionals to wean off of my SSRI. And they both knew it was going on. I had natural supplements to help me. and I used a titrating protocol.

So I was on 20 milligrams. I did basically 18.5 milligrams for a month, 15 milligrams for a month, 10 milligrams for a month, 5 milligrams for a month, and then to zero. So I would never recommend going cold turkey without a professional or anything like that. But all those to say, within a month of being off of it, like that weight that was just in my stomach just like completely disappeared. And I mean, anyone who follows me on social media, you know, like, I don't wear bathing suits in my social media. Nobody knows except I just feel more comfortable in my body. But yeah, I mean, I was a little self-conscious.

But I never really talked about it maybe in one YouTube video because I just felt stupid saying that, you know. Okay, so talk to me about the selects a little bit. Was it, first of all, let's start with, were you anxious growing up? Was this an always thing for you? Or did this come about when you moved to New York or some other sort of life event? That is a great question. Yes, I would always say I was an anxious person. I would say I have a predilection for anxious, like, tendencies when I was little, my nickname was Princess in the P because when I was in bed, if there was like the tiniest thing, I'm still like this, the tiniest thing, like a hair out of play. Anyone who ever has to fall asleep next to me, it's, unless they're like narcoleptic, which actually my boyfriend basically is narcoleptic, I'm just a pain in the body. Are you like arranging them? You're like, you have to like.

Yeah, they need to be far away. But like, it's like everything like I'm like scratching and itching and moving and fixing. And so I've always been just sort of like a maybe a sensitive person or something. And then I would say I was a warrior. I went through a major hypochondriac phase. But most of that went away during college and high school. I don't really remember it too much, I think, with the distractions of life and growing up. And it wasn't until I got back to New York. That's not true. that's not true. The beginning of college, and I think this was in large part to just not taking care of myself, I did have several panic attacks in college where I took myself to the ER thinking I was having a heart attack and I would get like heart palpitations and that kind of thing. And then that continued into New York. So I spent, I mean, thousands of dollars going to the hospital for a short. And what did they do? Well, they would do an EKG. But the thing is like by the time you get in for your EKG, you're usually the panic. attack has subsided, or at least for me it had. So there was nothing that would show up on the,

on the EKG. And so they would send me home, you know, with an expensive bill. And so I was like, I'm not crazy. Something's wrong with me. And they weren't like, you're having anxiety. Like maybe you should go see a therapist. I don't even think that that word was used. No, these were like, because this was emergency room, you know, so they were like in and out, we don't care. By the third time, I did insist on, I was like, someone helped me with like who I should go see. So they actually, again, I mean, they didn't say anxiety, but they sent me to a cardiologist. And so my cardiologist actually found something called mitral valve prolapse, which is basically it means you have like a leaky valve. And it's typically not dangerous at all.

But what it can cause actual chest pain. And so. And then you would feel the chest pain. Yeah. So it would snowball. Yeah. Right. So it turned out that I had this thing that was like a very mild.

It's just, you know, this whatever it is, heart condition, but that sounds a lot scarier than it is. And so as soon as I knew that that was a thing, the panic attacks, like the hospital visit stopped, but I still would have like heart skipping a bead and palpitations and like a lot of, like insomnia has been a huge issue for me in my life and a lot of that. And that, yeah, started in college and then kind of trailed off and then picked up. again in New York and then it got dramatically better when I moved home. And then about- Why did you move to- New York seems like it was such like a- Girl, I don't know. No, I know. I do know. So, well, part of it was because I went to Virginia for college and like everyone goes there. It's just this like mass exodus up to the city for some reason. So all my friends were going.

So I was like, I guess I'll go. Okay. Did you kind of know it was wrong for you like immediately? Immediately. Yeah. I mean, three weeks in. I did. I did have her, well, the guy I was dating at the time was younger than me, and he was still at Virginia, but his family lives in Connecticut. And so part of the reason why I wanted to stay there, even when I realized I wasn't happy, was because it was a lot easier for me to see him. Because I could go out into Virginia and whatever. So I stayed there despite the fact that very quickly I was like, this is just not a good fit. Also, I went there thinking I was going to be a lawyer, and I worked as a paralegal thinking I would apply for law school and worked at a big corporate

firm and three weeks into that. I mean, I had the law associates coming up to me and being like, don't do it. Run away. Like run for the hills, you know. And that's not knocking. I mean, look, if you love being a lawyer, that's great. But we're not living in, this is not the 80s where you can like make a ton of money being a lawyer and like potentially be litigating cases. Like now if you want to be a lawyer, you got to really, really want it because it's a very different world. And so anyway, and that wasn't me. Why did you think you wanted to be a lawyer? Well, like you, I've always been a writer. I mean, always been like my sort of favorite way to express myself. I love to write. And so that led to being involved with mock trial because we got to like write our speeches. So I, and I fell in love

with mock trial because, duh, it's like cool murder cases. You know what I mean? It's like being a lawyer in a move. Yeah, exactly. So I loved mock trial. So then I thought, well, I'll be an English major when I go to college. And then I think being a lawyer would be really fun. And it was just, it was a very natural trajectory. So I was an English major. And it just felt like the right next step. with all the things I'd been interested in it. And, you know, to that, to date. So anyway, yeah, and then I was like stuck there because the truth is you can make a pretty good living

as a paralegal at a big corporate firm with overtime. But as you know in the city, I mean, if you're not in finance, you're probably not making any money, you know? And so I, at that point, I didn't know what else I could possibly do. There was no way I could get into finance. I didn't have like the background for that at all. And so you're like, I have this life. Like, how do I pay for it other than that? Yeah. And so I thought I would just, you know, have fun. I would just enjoy like the social life. And so I was going out all the time and like drinking way too much and sleeping in way too late and doing all of that. And that was when I mean, my body just freaked out. And I was miserable and I wasn't taking care of myself. And that was when like the orthorexia kind of took over and I was still having major anxiety. Were you still having panic attacks or was it more just?

I think a tax had pretty much stopped at that point. Yeah, I was just like generalized anxiety. That felt very circumstantial. I still think my major balance of anxiety have been very circumstantial to my life. So that was circumstantial. And then basically in my time in culinary school, it was like gone. Like the second I made the decision to quit my job and go to culinary school, like my anxiety disappeared.

That was gone. Were you, how did you do that though with the aforementioned like, how do you pay for your life, blah, blah, blah. Like how did you get the, one, the balls to make that life. decision and then two, logistically, how did you make that decision? Yeah. So, so emotionally, it was because it just got so bad that, so I had two paralegal-esque jobs. One was technically working compliance at hedge fund. So I moved from a firm in the city to, I was reverse commuting to Greenwich and working as a compliance, legal compliance person at a hedge fund. And I'll be

honest, I hope these girls aren't listening. But the girls working there were like not nice to me at all. I mean, really me, like me. And I've never had them like a mean girl experience. But there was also some major, there was like some dark situations happening where I worked. And every day I walked in with like butterflies in my stomach, just scared to like, just terrified. Terrified to be there, terrified to have to go back the next day. And I think when it got so bad, I did have kind of a revelatory moment. I was like, I'm 27. I'm single.

I have a great education and a great family. Like, why in the world am I doing this? You know, like there has to, there has to be a way. The idea that I'm incapable of changing my life at 27 is just crazy. And so, you know, very serendipitously, you could, what if you, you can call it luck or God or the universe or energy or whatever, but within the same week, I got a call from a friend who said, I'm working for this company called Health Warrior. I don't know if you're familiar with like their chia bars. She said they need a Northeastern marketing manager. It pays X and it's completely flexible. You'd be your own boss. And do you know anyone who'd be interested in? I was like, yes, yes, I do. That would be me. And so I took the job like that day over the phone, enrolled in culinary school and like quit. I think I tried to, I think I weighed like a couple weeks, but I ended up quitting my job very quickly, started working for health wear.

So it just kind of came together where I had this clarifying moment and then this opportunity to, you know, pay for my life, fell into place, happened. And I mean, I. I, so I had gone to an open house at NGI like six months prior, but I just, and I loved it, but I just didn't have the guts to officially enroll or do anything at that moment. But when I came back like six months later to officially enroll, they were like, oh, we've been waiting for you. Like, we knew you'd be back.

I also just love the sentiment that, like, I think a lot of people can feel trapped in their lives and, like, there's definitely no way. But it is true that you can pretty much always change your life in some way. you just kind of need to step back and look at it a different way. 100%. It's never too late. Even, you know, my dad's in his late 60s and he's changing his life completely right now. Like I just, I don't think there's any point where you're so trapped that you can't.

Good for him. Yeah. No, it's awesome. Well, both and part of this, my parents were inspirations to me, too, because both of them switched careers. I mean, my dad's had multiple post-retirement. And my mom, who was an interior designer, then a stay-at-home mom, decided to go back and get a counseling degree at Vanderbilt when we were in college. And so she started working actually at the school I went to, the all-girls school I went to as a counselor. And then the head of the middle school

quit. And so they asked my mom to be the interim head while they were finding the head of school. She did such a great job that my mom then became the head of this, you know, good, all, you know, very good, all-girls school for eight years. And watching her do that was really inspiring. And I think you hit the nail in the head that it's just about zooming out. out and it's just about getting a different perspective, looking at it a different way because I find it very hard to believe that most 27-year-olds who have people who love them and a somewhat solid education can't do something different than what they're doing. Well, and also you live one life. Like, why not have seven different careers? And most people, yeah, and that's changing a lot, too.

I like the whole paradigm of, you know, you find your job and you do your job until you retire. Like, that's changing rapidly, you know. So if your anxiety got so much better with NGI and then moving back to Nashville, what sparked the Selexa? I think what I will say to that is I think it was a deep, seated sense of misalignment. And I don't want to get too much into it because there was no one, there's never anyone to blame for my anxiety other than myself. I am completely in control of my feelings and my life and all of that.

I think I was in a place where I knew I wasn't, that wasn't right for me. I knew my life. I had made choices that didn't feel right for me and didn't feel right for the people in them, which then caused me a lot of guilt. I felt very misplaced. And I, and yeah, misaligned is really the best way. And it was on a very, like, deep-seated, like, gut level. And so I couldn't, the main, so the main,

main symptom of that was that I couldn't sleep to save my life. Like at all. Like at all. Like my therapist, first she was like, oh, don't worry because people say that, but like just give it three nights of not sleeping. You'll sleep like a bit. Well, for most people, it's one night. If you have one bad night, then you sleep really well the next night. She was like, give it a few nights. And I was like, okay, okay. Six months later, I had slept maybe three or four hours a night every single night, like on a good night. I was delirious. How are you at all? I barely worked. I would, I, there are some recipes from that time on my blog, but that was about all I had the energy for was to like make recipes and write them, but I

couldn't see people, it couldn't exercise. It feels so unfair when you have any sort of insomnia thing that, like, you're exhausted all day, but then none of that translates into being tired enough at night to sleep. No, if anything, I think insomnia breeds insomnia, just like good sleep, breeds good sleep. And, yeah, for me, my brain was stronger than my body. And like I was, it was just so anxious and restless. And I just had this like frenetic energy. And I spent thousands of dollars. We, we, my, you know, my ex and I at the time sent thousands of dollars on treatments.

Like trying all the different. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, I mean, he was super supportive of it. It was really difficult for him too. And we tried, I mean, we tried traditional therapies, Eastern therapy is, you know, brain, very expensive brain stuff. And it really just did not move the needle for me. I still really, really struggled with my sleep. And I mean, and I, and other symptoms, like, I really had a hard time,

like catching deep breaths and stuff. So finally, my therapist was, had worked with me at that point for a couple years. And she was like, I think you need something. And so she picked Selexa for me. There's a ton of different anxiety medications. Selexa is actually depression medication, but it for the right person can work for anxiety. And it's an SSRI and which is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. So that particular mechanism worked for my brain. And within three weeks, I felt like a new person. Were you, how did you feel about going on it?

Because by that point, you'd gone to Natural Gorman Institute. You were like deep in sort of the wellness world, which has a lot of judgment often about those types of things. Oh my gosh. It was terrifying. And actually, I had just done an article with Shape Magazine talking about my anxiety journey. And I hadn't started slacks at the time. But I was telling them kind of what I've told you, which is how it had gotten a lot better through like eating well and stuff.

But I wasn't completely honest with them about the fact that I was still struggling with it. And then the article came out. And I remember just feeling so guilty that the article didn't include that. So I originally had planned on like not telling people that I was on Slexa, but I ended up because of the article, I didn't want people to think that I had like fixed it completely. So I actually then went on my, like all my media outlets and whatever they were at the time and just told people. I was like, I'm just going to be really honest. Like that doesn't tell the whole story. I've also just, you know, pretty recently started this anxiety medication.

And it's been an amazing thing for me. And I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. exclusive and I don't believe that at all. I think even on a, even on a medication, taking care of yourself will help mitigate symptoms for sure. And there's no question as I've weaned off of it, taking care of myself has made the weaning process significantly easier. Were you nervous to go off of it? Yeah, I was terrified. I was terrified. I had no idea if my body would just like, I was mostly terrified I would have insomnia again. Now I will say I take melatonin. Like I do some, like I have my little sleep routine, but like nothing. I mean, when I was having really bad anxiety, like,

but mostly insomnia, I had an Ambien prescription, a Xanax prescription. Oh, yeah. I mean, I was a hot mess. Like, I didn't knock you out? I would hallucinate on Ambien. Oh, my God. Yeah, I mean, I, my insomnia was like on a whole other level. I mean, and you didn't have it as a kid. It just was like, no, I mean, I was, I was, I was always a hot, like, I was always the last kid to fall asleep at sleepovers. I remember that vividly. I remember like being like the sounds and all that stuff was hard for me. And I remember watching my friends like sleeping peacefully and it took me longer. But for the most part, I still ended. I was still like pretty normal. Could eventually fall asleep, whatever. But I think I always had those tendencies in me. And then being in this situation where probably the juxtaposition of like

eating the right things and having this like growing career and stuff, but knowing that I was. was also like really not in the right place for me. I think that juxtaposition is probably what caused the majority of the insomnia. I mean, I really do think the insomnia was like a screaming red flag. Like, you're not, you're not comfortable. You don't feel safe. You know, I just, I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel like I had a place to rest. I didn't feel, yeah, like just come, like, settled at all, you know? And but your sleep has been pretty much good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, the last year, like, and again, this is not, this does not take away from anyone who's been in my life. Like, I want to make that very clear, you know, I got, I got divorced a year ago. And this is me and my journey.

What I've realized in the last year is like I'm a much more independent solo person than I realized. And so it's become very clear to me that creating a life for myself, living by myself, growing, focusing, primarily on growing a business, which you can do when you have a boyfriend, it's very hard to do. As you know, it's harder to do when you're in a marriage. There's a lot more compromise in marriage than there is, you can be a lot more selfish when you're just dating somebody. And so in the last year, I've been happier than I've ever been. And I feel very much like I did when I first moved home and felt, you know, very sort of confident in this like solo kind of journey that I'm on. And so I've had no problems.

I mean, that's not true. When I, I still have trouble, like if I'm traveling or something like that, that's still really hard for me. I mean, I have some bad nights, you know, but I think everybody does. But for the most part, no. Do you have, like I had one bad bad, bad of it, not nearly as bad as you, but I had one bad bad bad of insomnia. And it sort of freaked me out because it didn't occur to me.

I couldn't sleep before then, you know, it like triggered something where I was like, oh, my God, this can happen. And for me, it was three days where I just didn't. sleep at all for the three nights. And it changed traveling for me completely because now I'm that person who in hotels, I'm like, can I have the quiet room and Airbnb's? I'm like scrolling through the reviews looking for the quiet room. Like, does it, do you feel like knowing that you can sometimes not sleep that well? Does that limit your life? Is there stuff that you do to make sure that you can sleep no matter where you go and what you do? That's such a good question. The answer is it for a

while I did let it limit my life. But what was interesting that happened was because I had some really bad travel and sleep experiences. I mean, I've had, I've had travel experiences where I didn't sleep for 72 hours. But here's the interesting thing. It's the worst thing in the world. Well, especially when you're traveling, because you're like, I spent all this money to like go have a great time. And this was abroad. This was for weddings. I mean, things that should have been the best times of my life. And, but here is the interesting thing is what I realized looking back on those trips. And, I still, as horrible as it was, I still wouldn't change that experience for anything. Like, I still would go through that again to be at that person's wedding and to see that

country, even though I was delirious. And I never let it actually stop me while I was there. I would just be delirious and, like, do it anyway. And since I started that mindset, honestly, at this point, like, I just say yes to stuff. And I try to protect myself with exactly what you said, which is I try to, you know, have, I need to have my own room. I need to be in a quiet place. I need to, like, wind down a little bit and certain things like that. And I have to, you know, I do like, I keep my melatonin around. And what else? I do CBD, which is really helpful. So I have all those things. And then sometimes

it's still, it's a bad night. But I would rather, I'm so much happier living my life and being tired sometimes than feeling like I don't have control over it, you know. So is that sort of the mental dialogue when you're having a bad night? Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah. What do you do when you're in the middle of sort of a bad night? Yeah. Well, I will say part of the choice I've made for my life and it's one of the reasons I like living by myself is I don't take, I don't do like early morning stuff and late night stuff is really hard for me too. Like I really, for the most part, try to protect those times because it's psychological for me. So like even if I get home and like if Stephen and I go out and we get home at 10 o'clock, I'm probably not sleeping till 2 in the morning, only because I've

missed my particular window. So what I do is I go into certain experiences with a very, like, laissez-faire. So part of it is I protect myself by creating the schedule that works best for me. Part of it is I honestly just, like, go into it with the attitude that, like, it just really is what it is. And I can still have like a good next day. And I always, one of my favorite podcasts is this woman, Elizabeth Benton, it's called Primal Potential. And one of her, I love her like isms and her sayings. And one of them is like, she says every choice is a chance, which I really like, but she also says, make the next five minutes great. And that's like a motto for me when I'm deliriously tired from like a really bad insomnia night is I'm like, what can I do in the next five minutes to take

care of myself. And so part of that is when you're tired, you want to eat badly and you want to lay down in bed all day, but I don't let myself do that unless I physically, like, can't get out of bed, which very rarely happens. Like, I force myself to go for a walk and it might be a shorter walk. And I force myself to test a recipe. And it's probably one that I'm going to have to like test again. But like, and I force myself to like try to make pretty good food choices because that's not the time for me to be indulging because it really is going to make it worse, you know. That's interesting. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast.

I want to take a brief break from this episode to talk about a special partnership I'm doing with a company I'm obsessed with, natural cycles. If you didn't hear on my earlier episodes, I'm sharing a mini diary entry on each podcast about using the app as a non-hormonal way to prevent pregnancy. It has an efficacy of 93% with typical use and it's 98% effective with perfect use. You essentially take your temperature with a basal thermometer and then the app tells you whether you're on a red day, which means you should have avoid sex or use protection to prevent pregnancy or on a green day when you're good to go. I asked on Instagram for questions that you had about using natural cycles, so I'm going to answer a few of them today. The first one was how soon after going off birth control you can use natural cycles.

The answer for most hormonal methods is right away. I had my Mirena IUD taken out in December, and then I started using natural cycles the very next day. And they say for most forms of birth control, which includes the ring, the patch, the pill and the IUD, you can start the day after stopping or having them removed. You'll have more red days at first when you need to use protection because your ovulation might be irregular and natural cycles is still learning your cycle. But honestly, I'm okay with the red days.

I'd rather be safe than sorry, and we just use condoms on those days and it's completely fine. I was also really surprised by how many green days I started out with, even after just going off Morena. I had maybe 10 during the month, which was pretty decent, and then the number has just gone up as I've used it more. Someone else asked, if you need a special device to take your temperature, and the answer is yes. When you sign up, you'll download the app, and they'll send you a basal thermometer,

which takes your temperature one decimal more than a typical thermometer. It comes in the mail super fast, and it looks just like a normal thermometer, so it's small and easy to travel with. I leave mine on my bedside table so I can reach for it first thing when I wake up. Someone else asked if you can use natural cycles with irregular periods, and the answer is yes. I actually haven't had the most regular period since going off my IUD. Before that, I was on the pill, so I've been on some form of hormonal contraception for more than 15 years.

But natural cycles isn't just tracking your cycle to make predictions. It's using your temperature and a complex series of algorithms that are running in the background. So, yes, it's totally fine to use if you have irregular cycles, but again, you might get more of those red days that you'll want to use protection on. I'm really, really loving natural cycles so far, and I'm really passionate about spreading the word about it to everyone I can, since it's such an amazing non-hormonal birth control option. I'll be answering more of your questions on my next mini diary entry. You asked so many good ones. I could not get to them all. So if you have anything you'd like to know, hit me up on Instagram at Liz Moody, and definitely check out natural cycles.com.

There's a ton of great information on there. And of course, you can sign up and get a thermometer so you can try it out for yourself. Now, let's get back to the episode. Going back to your divorce briefly, was it hard for you to sort of self-identify as a divorced person? Especially in a place you live in the South, there's this notion of what a family should be, I think, a lot stronger here than there maybe are still in other parts of the country. How did that go with your concept of yourself identity and what you thought your life would be? You know, it's interesting. I actually really didn't care.

I still really don't. And I think part of that is because I certainly care what people think about me in the sense of like my basic integrity. Like I want people to think I'm a good person. But it doesn't bother me whatever people might make up about what it means to have been divorced. I mean, at this point, half of adults have been divorced, you know. And I know so many people who have.

And I think, yeah, I don't know. For some reason for me, that never. felt, and that never made me feel like I was wearing a scarlet letter. I felt like, in part, maybe in part that's because I've been able to create a career separately. That was like my own. And so my sense of myself didn't change dramatically. I never saw myself as a married per. Like that wasn't my identity as someone who's married. So when I was divorced, that wasn't my identity either. We had a really easy divorce, a really amical divorce, amicable divorce. I think that made it easier. Part of it, too, was nobody acted like they cared. I mean, I just didn't have,

I would say out of hundreds of messages I got in relation to my divorce, maybe three of them were negative. Maybe. It didn't change my relationship with my friends. The people that were mutual friends of ours that I still cared about are still friends of mine. And so, yeah, for me, like, I totally have my own insecurities in my life, but what people think about me, other than just like my basic sort of like, like I said, like my integrity, my honesty, that kind of thing. Like I don't really care what people think about that. And you kept his last name. No, I didn't.

No. So you. Yeah, I went back to my maiden name. My maiden name is Bryant. And so that's what I legally changed it back to. Okay. So your next book will be. Yeah.

My last book, well, my next book, I'm not sure. I'm working with my publishers because, you know, I don't know if I'll get married again someday and I don't know if I'd change my name if I did, but I also like don't want all my cookbooks to have a different last name. So, you know, when I do work stuff, usually they just say Laura Lee. So I'm thinking about just putting Laura Lee on my next book. Oh, that's cool. You're like going into like Madonna territory. I mean, if I didn't have a double name, I totally wouldn't because I don't, like, like I definitely don't think I in like. Laura. Yeah. Yeah. Like I wouldn't. But so many people think Lee is my last name anyway. Oh, that's interesting.

So I think because of the double name thing, I may just be able to get away with that. And yeah, and just have to be bilarily. I don't know. But if I don't, then I would just do Bryant. And then if I did Bryant, I would just do Bryant on future books even if I, or publications or as my work name, even if I did for some reason change my name again. Yeah. So you do have, speaking of the cookbook and all of that, you have like, you've made a lot of

sort of a traditional life choices in general. And you said that your parents sort of did that as well. Were you like that growing up? Were you always sort of like different than everybody else or kind of like flying your own flag? Were you like a cool kid in high school? What was your situation? Yeah. I mean, I definitely have always marched to the beat of my own drum in the sense that, yeah, I think I've always had and I would bet you're the same way. I think most people who love to write, like I've always had a very rich inner life, you know. And all that means, that doesn't mean like I'm dumb or smart or anything like that. It just means like I've always had a world that I created that was like very much my own that was totally separate from anybody else. And so I was always fine, being by myself, playing by myself, reading by myself. And I think the result of that was that I think I was always comfortable like kind of doing things my own way because I felt like I had all this support because it was just in my own head, you know? Like I felt normal. And I've always had a lot friends. Like, yeah, I would say I would say I was popular in the sense that, like, I was friends

with everybody, like, the cool kids, like the nerds. Like, I've never, I've always been friends with, like, pretty much everybody. I can usually find something to relate to with everybody I meet and, like, really appreciate something about them. But I would say that I didn't start doing things that were very much, like, untraditional, non-traditional. So I would say it was always, like, weird and kind of quirky and independent, that sense. But it really wasn't until I deviated in New York to the natural gourmet and then all of this ensued. And it's only very much been in the last year in the last 12 months that I've realized like just how untraditional I am. That's so.

And it's interesting because you do feel you give off the vibe of somebody who very much is like has come into themselves as a woman and as a person. Really? Yeah, you really do. And I think that's like something that people say happens in your 30s as a woman. And I just think you exude it and it's really cool. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. I love getting older.

Yeah. Like, you know, there are downsides to it, of course. But to me, the pro of feeling good in my own skin and just like giving less and less Fs about what people think. Like that is so much more. That is so worth like, you know, the laugh lines and like all of that. Can I, I'm curious though, you're for lack of a better way of saying it. you're like an objectively pretty person. Like you are beautiful.

You've probably been told that you're pretty your whole life. Does that impact your view of aging at all? Because it's one of like, it's one of the things you hear is like, oh, if you rely on your looks a lot that like that's going to be. That's going to go. Yeah. And I know you're not relying on them because obviously you have one, a great personality. You're smart.

You've built this whole life. But as somebody who's objectively like a very pretty person, how does that impact your view of aging? Well, first of all, thank you. I mean, I think part of it is, you know, my mom is awesome. And she, from very early on, in a very loving kind way, made it very clear to me that looks don't last. And that, and I was always, I was never praised for my looks growing up. Like my mom, like, that in a negative way.

Like my, you know, they might say like, oh, that like two to looks pretty on you. But my looks were never a focus. So I don't, I didn't really grow up feeling like particularly attractive. in high school as I started to get, you know, when I got in high school and like boys and stuff like that, I felt like maybe I got more attention. But that was like deeply ingrained in me that like that's not a thing that can, first of all, it's not going to make you happy. And two, it's not going to last. So like that can't be what you, you know, that can't be what you ride the, you know, the coattails of. It's just interesting because I think society tells us in so many

subtle ways that if you're just a little bit more beautiful, your life would like get so much better. Gosh, no, I can tell you, like, and I mean, there, and I have friends who, you know, are, like, legit supermodels and that's not how it goes. It just doesn't, you know, it may make certain things, it may make certain things feel easier, but it doesn't make them better or happier, for sure. There's no question about it. And, yeah, I mean, just like being, you know, like a white woman in society, like, has its privileges. Like, so does being an attractive person. But it doesn't, it doesn't correlate to, like, a deep sense of contentment or happiness. And I've always known that. And I think that was, and because of the way my parents raised me. And so I don't have, like, a fear.

I mean, certainly I don't, like, want to, like, have some major disfigurement or something. Like, nobody does. But I don't have, like, a fear of, you know, age. and like wrinkles and getting gray hair and not being like a babe because I've had my darkest times looking the same, you know, times when I was like so deeply miserable. I mean, I don't talk about this a lot and I don't take this word lightly. But when my insomnia was like really bad, it's kind of like what you were saying when you were like, whoa, you realize that that's a thing that can happen that like I can be a human being and not sleep. I mean, when it was really bad, Like I had definitely had some suicidal thoughts because I had spent so much money.

I tried so many different things and none of it worked. And so I remember thinking, I just don't think I'm like doing this human thing right. Because like along with like eating and breathing, like sleeping is supposed to be something I can do. And I'm not capable of sleeping apparently. So like I just don't feel like I fit in here, you know. And that had nothing to do with anything. and people on the outside probably had no, I mean, they didn't know. I've never, I haven't really talked about that.

So yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I think, and also, like, who doesn't agree when you look at, like, older women? I don't know who thinks someone who's, like, plastered in, like, fake cheekbones. And, like, who thinks that looks more beautiful than someone who's, like, aged. Well, I'm also curious, like, who they think they're bullying. Right. Like, you don't. You look like an old person with plastic turduring.

Yeah. You don't look younger. You don't look younger. Yeah. And then you look at someone like Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton and like they're stunning. Yeah. And very like sexy still in their own way. And they just look like themselves.

Yeah. Just like older versions. And my mom, I think, is really beautiful and his age really beautifully. And I think that can be like such a cool time. I mean, I just, that's definitely something I worry about for younger women on social media right now. I mean, I cannot imagine. How old are you again? 32.

Yeah, I'm 33. I cannot imagine. us having grown up with that. Like, I would, how do any of them have competence? Well, I also think it starts so young. So when you're a parent and you're putting your kid on social media, whether you're like an influencer or just like a literal normal person, you're doing it for the grandparents, you're, and I don't judge it at all.

Like I will probably do the same when and if I have children. But I do think there's a subtle thing that's happening where you're teaching a child to perform for the camera constantly. And the amount that you're teaching them to do that is so much more than we were taught to do that. So I think you're taught to like, I don't know, almost like put it on in a different way from a very young age. And that makes me nervous. And then also there's been really interesting studies that show that when you see yourself through like filters and stuff on social media, you actually start to be disappointed with your reflection in the mirror. Which is terrifying.

I mean. And some cameras like on phones do the same. same thing. Like, I think there's a Samsung phone that like the camera automatically. It's set to. And you can go in the settings and take it off, but it's automatically set to like a pretty filter where it evens your skin tone. And it does all of that. And it's just like that's not we're not only creating an artificial standard of what people look like with like photoshopping and celebrity and all that, but like internally we're creating an artificial standard of what we look like. So I didn't know that about certain cameras. And I also have never thought about the perspective. what you said about kids like performing, but that's such a good point. I never thought about the fact

that that is happening. I mean, I like love YouTube. So I watch, I probably watch more YouTube than like anything else. I love it. It's like my guilty pleasure. I love it. I feel like I'm the only 32 year old like watching. Oh, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with it. No, I'm like obsessed with YouTube. And so there are a lot of people who've built their careers on their children through YouTube. And I'm like, what are these kids going to think when they're older? Like they didn't have a say in any of this. But they're also being told to perform. I mean, there are people who like feed lines so their children about what to say for these videos. And there's no, unfortunately, we don't have a way at this point to tell what that's going to do.

We haven't seen it yet. They haven't grown up. But I can't imagine it's healthy. I mean, there's so little human interaction. No kids play outside. You know, so there's like no room for imagination. Everything is created for themselves. And yeah, I'm sure that if you're especially like, I mean,

I know people who've built their whole Instagram following on filters that make them look like 10 times tanner than they are in real life. Like they don't even look like the same person in real life. And yeah, I just kids don't do that to your, so don't do that to yourselves. So what do you, what's your relationship with social media and how do you manage that? So it's interesting. I did stories a lot more when I was married and I haven't felt as called to do them. Partly that's because I've been writing the book and I just haven't had the emotional bandwidth.

with, but I haven't found that need to, like, constantly be connecting through my stories. Why do you think that is? I don't really know. I think other than I do think I felt like a little isolated. I think I felt lonelier on sort of like a metal level, you know, and I don't feel that loneliness now. So I like to connect, but I don't feel like I need to as much. So it's just not as, like, top of mind.

I think, yeah. And so, but I'm not totally sure. I do think some of that could just be contextual. to writing the book because that has been the majority of the last year. But I love social media. I think has been great for my business. I really do love it's a great way for especially someone like me who is like a little more introverted and on the spectrum.

And like it's a great way to communicate without feeling like depleted, although it can be depleting for sure. On the spectrum of introversion. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, sorry. Just to be clear. Edit that on the spectrum of extroversion to introversion. Yeah.

I think for me being more. more of an introvert, it can be really helpful for the way I communicate with people. But I also think it's utterly terrifying. I definitely panicked a bit when Instagram shut down a few months ago. I think it's just really important to diversify as an entrepreneur and that's something. That's why I wanted to write. That's one of the main reasons I wanted to write a book. Now, I'd always wanted to write a book because I love to write.

And I really wanted to write a cookbook. But I also truly believed and believe that, in order to maintain a sense of your confidence and your ability to continue to have a business and grow a business, you need to be diversifying and you need to have platforms in multiple places. And you need something tangible and concrete like a book, you know, that no one can take that away from you. Even if you decided you wanted to write a book and you couldn't find a publisher, no one can take away from you your ability to self-publish unless the whole publishing industry goes down.

But, you know, and that's why, I mean, I did YouTube before. I'm going to start getting into that once I turn this book in. I love having YouTube. And I will probably spend more, I mean, I don't know if this was like that. I don't know if it was like this for you because you were also working. But I just don't have a lot of time for my Instagram right now. When I'm writing the book, I just, I just don't because if I have a great picture, it's going in my book.

And if I have a great recipe, it's going in my book. But then what do you do? Because like I, I, when I was writing my book, one, I didn't have a lot of time for Instagram because I was working full time. But also I was like, shit, I need to be building an audience. So when my book comes out, the audience is. there and wants to buy it. I know. I think I think what I'm relying on is the fact that there there will be about six months between when I turn the book in and when the book officially

ends up. And then you'll re-focus. And I'm going to really put the pedal to the metal when I turn my book in in terms of like really paying a lot of attention to Instagram, putting up more consistent blog posts and good recipe content and stuff like that. Do you, do you, in your mind is that like, like, how did you grow your blog? How did you grow your Instagram? Was it just like consistent good content where there are sort of like breakthroughs that help? you grow those. I mean, honestly, other than the occasional, like, person of influence, like, sharing about what I'm doing, which, like, has happened, but I would not say, like, I would not say that was, I wouldn't say there was some major catalyst in that way. I think it's exactly what we said.

I think it's just, I think consistently good quality content that clearly has a voice is the best way to grow anything, you know? And, I mean, consistency is, I think it's the key pretty much to everything. I think it's the key to health. I think it's the key to good habits because it, consistency doesn't mean you don't take breaks and indulge and stuff like that, but it means you don't, it's, I think consistency is the opposite of the on the wagon, off the wagon mentality, because that's the mentality that makes people stop and then start six weeks later or start six months later. But if you're consistent, it means, okay, that wasn't exactly how I wanted that to go, but I get up and do it anyway. And then, you know, and so. Which ties back in with your whole

insomnia thing as well because it's just like, oh, even if it's not going to be a perfect day, I'm just going to go have my day and do my day and not be off my entire day. And maybe where I learned it from, honestly, because I would say those habits like kind of formulated at the same time, which was with the exception of when I'm writing a book, you know, I put up very consistent blog content and I post pretty consistently on Instagram, unless I have no, I mean, I don't like force it. I mean, you know, sometimes you're just like, I got nothing for you, you know. But for the most part, yeah, I would say that's how I grew it. And again, I have to give like major

kudos to Nashville. This is a super supportive city. Like people want to see people succeed, you know, it's not like New York where I think there is still a bit of the mentality of like there's X pieces of the pie. And when it's gone, it's gone, you know, here. Which is so not true. Like I feel like the, I don't, I mean, I don't even think like there's not a one to one correlation, but there's been no time in my career that I've helped another person, particularly another woman. And I haven't, and I felt like it's negatively affected me in any way. And often it'll positively affect me either immediately or down the road, like very often. For sure. I mean, most of the time, I agree. Like just a natural support and like showing up for other women in your industry.

Yeah. Like on so many levels, I think is mutually beneficial. And it's just, and it's pleasurable. And so it's just a win. It feels good. It's a win. It's a win. And there's eight billion people in the world. I mean, what the actual heck. If you think about it, eight billion people, we're still in this, like, teeny, tiny wellness community. Yeah. You know, it's still super small. It feels big to us because when we open our Instagram, that's like our whole Explorer page is the same, like, 20, you know, Instagrammers or whatever.

But the reality is there are people, there's always going to be people who are going to resonate with your voice over mine and resonate with McKell's vibe over my. But also, those people can follow me, you and McKell. Yes, they can. And they can take what they like from all of it, you know? It doesn't have to be die hard. I'm just like anytime I'm shouting out somebody else, it's not like somebody's being like, oh, I shall stop following Liz and go follow this. Yeah.

No, it's so true. It's not you can't. Right. I mean, you can follow thousands of people. Thousands of people. You can buy multiple cookbooks. 100%. And it's totally fine.

Yeah, I think it's interesting. Okay. So what other, like, wellnessy stuff do you do? You mentioned CBD. Do you have a brand you like? So, yeah. So they're launching now, but ancient nutrition is based out of Nashville, and I love their stuff. They are launching a CBD line and they have cinnamon infused CBD.

It's honestly, like, problematically delicious because I'm like, no, Larry Lee. Is it a tincture? Yeah, it's a dropper. And I just do two full droppers. It's really great quality. And then there's also another local company here called Yu-Yo Botanics, Y-U-Y-O, and they do a really good quality CBD. So I love them. Do you know about how many milligrams you do?

I do, yes, let's see. The one night I want to say is 200 milligrams. Oh, that's the like half the dose. Yeah, it's like two dropperfuls. I think that's right. And I think the one, they have an AM formula, which I think is like 90 milligrams or something. And you do that every day? Not every night.

Mostly just if I'm traveling or something like that. I'll bring that with me. Now, for the most part, once I take my melatonin and I get in bed and I, like, am in my environment. I don't need something necessarily. But I will take that on nights where I'm like starting to feel a little bit anxious or restless. And you certainly don't need to take that much. It's just high. High. Highly sensitive person here. Yeah. And then I, you know, yeah, I walk every day. I love to like hike, which in Nashville is usually more just like long scenic walks. We don't have a lot of like hiking. We do, but not close. I'm really good about a like very chill

morning, which for me is like super important for my mental health. I, so I make this like thing. I call it my like morning elixir. I make it every night and I drink it first thing in the morning. It's 32 ounces of filtered water, the juice from a lemon, a scoop of collagen and some apple cider vinegar. And you make it at night just so it's ready? One because it's ready and I don't have to think about it, but also the collagen dissolves like much better. Like I find that if I even let it sit for 10 minutes, it's still like clumpy, but by the morning it's completely dissolved. So I do that and I drink the whole thing every morning. And then I do drink coffee, but I, um, my coffee has like, like some fun stuff in it, you know, some fun little jazzed up stuff. And then honestly,

I will, I will say when I'm writing my book, I would say my meals are more like snacking during the day. I eat a nice, healthy dinner. Most nights, it's usually just leftovers of what I'm testing. And I like to make sure there's like, so when I test, I try to make sure that I'm testing like something that can be kind of a side dish or a salad or something and an entree. I try to do that so that I can get some kind of vegetables in. But for the most part, during the day, often it will just be like siate foods, crackers with hummus and like maybe an apple and then maybe like a go macro bar. Like it's not the best when I'm doing that.

And then meditation? You know, I would say walking is my meditation. I mean, I've done like pretty, I've been pretty consistent about meditation before, like in a very traditional way. I didn't get a lot from it. That could be that I'm just doing it wrong. But they say you can't do it wrong. They say if you're sitting and you're trying to focus on something, like you can't do it wrong.

Yeah, I guess that's fair. I just didn't. I didn't really notice. Like I didn't. Yeah, I really didn't. And I did it consistently. But I do for a portion of my walks. I turn off my podcast.

I'm not talking to anybody. I'm just like walking in silence. And that has felt very meditative for me. I mean, my cat is definitely. I mean, she will like, she will decrease my heart rate, like noticeably. I like bury my nose and my cat and I take like a big impound. Yes. There's like pheromones or something.

Oh my God. Like shove my face and her little boo-dollary. It's like, yeah, it's the best thing ever. And that's, I mean, that's very real. And there's a lot of science behind that. I try to be pretty consistent with my bedtimes and my wake-up times. I think that's really important. Sort of like this arcadian rhythm.

Yeah. I think that's really helpful for everybody, but especially somebody that suffers from any kind of insomnia. Yeah. And then I would say like on a day-to-day basis, again, like right now, I'm snacking more than I'd like to, but I'm still pretty conscious to make sure I'm getting a good amount of, like, healthy fat in. So even if I'm having a bar, I'll, like, slather with almond butter or something. Why do you think, yeah. Healthy fat, it helps me with my sleep.

It helps me. I know it helps me with, like, my mental clarity and brain function. It majorly helps me with, like, create, like, sugar cravings or, like, carb cravings. I think it helps me with my hormones, keeping my hormones balanced. Didn't you have hormonal issues? I feel like you did. Yeah, I did for a while. and then got those like very much under control.

I didn't have a period for like four years. And then, yeah, and actually going on Selexa, within a month of being on Selexa, I got my period back. Do you think it was stress that you didn't have your period before? Yeah. I mean, I think my stress, like my cortisol and adrenaline and were so jacked up from years of anxiety. And then I also like wasn't in the happiest place.

And I think that was really suppressing. I think my hormones were just so. Were you on birth control at one point? And then did you go off? Yeah, I was on birth control for like 10 years. And then you went on. And like had my orthorexia while I was on the new ring. So like I overlapped my orthorexia with, um, birth control.

Yeah. But then I went off of it like as soon as I moved home six years ago. But it took me like two and a half years to get a period. Wow. Yeah. And that. And it's been, but it's been fine and consistent. I mean, I've only been off to Alexa now for a month.

But I mean, I had it recently. And it was. fine and normal. What? Yeah. And you didn't do any other sort of like hormone balance. So the best thing I did was I think the Slexo was a huge part of it. I would say the one thing supplementally.

Well, I do think healthy fats for sure to keep it consistent. Yeah. My friend Susie has a company called Binto that does these curated supplement packets for wounds hormones. And I've been taking those. And I do think those helped as well. Do you know what? Phenom?

Yes. Actually, let me see if I can grab them. Okay. Oh, this is really cute. Yeah, it's really cute. And they just come to your house every month. Not the Binto people. The package comes to your house every month.

But it's like roughly sort of like an omega-3. It's an omega-3, a probiotic, a, wait, DHA, I guess is the omega-3. What is the other one? One of them is like a vitamin that's particularly good for women's health. And then one of them, I believe, is an adaptogen. Yeah, it's really cool. And then they have a couple different options. Do you do other supplements or no?

Yeah, I do. But honestly, I haven't been like, I'm more like playing around with them. I haven't figured out like an exact supplement routine. So like right now I'm taking some magnesium because I found that it's like really, really helpful for me in a lot of different ways. That's my sleep thing. So if I can't sleep or if I'm having like an anxiety attack of any sort, I'll like, I call it overdosed am magnesium, but I'll take twice the recommended dosage and it works for

me like as Anax does. Yeah, exactly. So I take magnesium citrate. I don't know if that's the one you have. Yeah. Your encapsulation. Yeah. So I take magnesium.

Right now I am taking aschwaganda, which has been really helpful for me. I started taking an ashtwaganda supplement and an ashwok. I forgot. So I do the melatonin. And then the company, Gaia, has something called sleep through. And it's basically primarily ashwaganda and a few other sleep herbs. So I'm doing that to basically help as I wean off of the selexa for that's really good for like natural relaxation.

What else am I doing? Oh, and then I do a multivitamin and a probiotic from ancient nutrition. And you haven't got any different going off this lexia. Like you... I really haven't. It's super weird. It's really interesting. The one side effect I noticed was in the first...

No, it was probably from 20 milligrams to 10 milligrams. I had a really, I was really nauseous for like two weeks and had no appetite. I assume it has to do with that because I was the only... change and then it went away and was fine. But yeah, that was like really weird. But no, I didn't have, I mean, I've had like maybe one or two bad nights or something, but like not in particular. I feel great. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. I want to take a quick break from this episode to tell you about one of my favorite grain-free food brands, Simple Mills. I first discovered Simple Mills years ago when I fell in love with their baking mixes. The Pizza

Crest is a must-have pantry item for quick healthy dinners. But more recently, they've been absolutely killing it with their ready-made items. I'm obsessed with their grain-free crackers, which I've been serving at all of my book tour stops around the country. They have two types, an almond flower one that's a bit smaller and a sprouted seed one that size for like a small cracker sandwich. The almond flour ones are my go-toes for snacking, plain from the box. The smoky barbecue cheddar is basically like the best cheesy cracker you've ever had, except healthy, and the rosemary sea salt is really elegant feeling, and it's like perfect for dipping in some tomato soup. They all have simple mills signature short ingredient list, and because they're nut and seed base, they actually contain a

fair bit of protein and dietary fiber to elongate that blood sugar curve and prevent a hangar crash later on. The sprouted seed crackers are also heavenly. I use these to make a grown-up lunchable situation with like some pastured rotissory chicken and pastured cheese. Because the seeds are sprouted, they're way more bioavailable, making the crackers a good source of omega-3s, mangenies, and other ingredients. Yes, you can get omega-3s from a cracker, and I am here. for it. I also love pulsing these to use as a breadcrum alternative to sprinkle on pasta dishes or to use in meatballs. All of the flavors work really, really well, but the garlic and herb is particularly delightful. Finally, I need to mention the crunchy cookies. The chocolate chip ones taste

just like a healthy, yummier version of famous Amos cookies, which were my absolute favorite when I was a kid. We've also been serving these at my book tour events, and honestly, it's really hard for me to force myself to put them out for attendees because I love them that much. Literally, everything I mentioned is grain-free, gluten-free, non-GMO, and free of gums and emulsifiers. I really trust Simple Mills to not cut corners or put anything weird in any of their products. They test and test and test until they can release something that's really high quality and also taste really good. You can find Simple Mills that retailers nationwide are on their website at www.com where you can get 20% off with a code, health.

Together, 20. Again, that's a whopping 20% off with a code healthier together, like the name of this podcast, and then 20, 2,0, just the numbers, don't write them out. And it's all smushed together. It's one word, no cap. So healthier together 20 at simplemills.com. And if you need product recommendations, don't hesitate to ask me for them on Instagram. I'm at Liz Moody. I cannot wait to hear what you guys think about all these products. I've been obsessed with Simple Mills for years, and I can't wait for you guys to try them. Now, let's get back to the episode. And is there, we've talked about it a little bit, but like, I just, is there something you do when you have the bad night? I know you have a good day, but like to keep from the next night when you lay down from spiraling into being like, oh, I had a bad night last night.

It'll be a bad night this night. I wish, I mean, I wish I did. I mean, the truth is for me, it's just from having had so many bad nights. I just have a really good perspective on it. And so most of the time when I have a really bad night, the next night, I don't, I just don't expect it to be good. I just go into it being like, you know what? I had this like big cozy bed. I make sure I don't have anything in the morning like before 10.

And I just go into it and basically tell myself like whatever happens happens and it's okay. And honestly, now for the most part, it's fine. It ends up being fine the second night when I'm that tired. No, I do keep Unisom in my like back pocket or whatever. It's like what's Unisom. It's like a pharmacy sleep aid. I don't know what the active ingredient. is, I will take that, what is it called? It's like some, it begins with a D. I have that and the

Kirkland is like the Costco brand or whatever. That's their unison. So that is like my go-to if I'm having a really bad, like a really bad night and I like feel like I want to take something. But it will like, at least for me, it will like make you, it will knock you out. Now, it wouldn't have two and a half years ago. I would have just taken that in Ambien and would have. have seen like purple spots. But now I will take that either like Unisom or the Kirkland brand of it, which is called Sleep Bright. But I don't love to do that because it does make me pretty groggy.

The next day. Yeah. So at this point I would rather have like a bad night of sleep than like take that. Yeah. But sometimes if I'm like really like after a wedding weekend or something where you're so exhausted and I'm like I have a really big week coming up, like I'll take it then. Also I think it's nice to have like I take Klanapin when I fly. sometimes and I don't take it all the time, but I will not fly without knowing that I have it.

Yeah. And I think it feels good to just know you have that tool in your toolkit if you need it. I think that's great. I mean, I did that. I had a leftover thing of Xanax from when it was like really bad and I, but then I stopped taking it, but I had some leftover. I used that for a while, like on rare occasions if I were traveling or something, I'd take one of my Xanax. Now I don't have it anymore. Are you an anxious flyer? No, it was sleeper late. Yeah, it was when I was going on long flights. No, I actually sleep really well on flights for the most part.

I hate you. But yeah, it's weird. But I don't, I mean, but I'm not a great sleeper. But yeah, I'm like out like that in my narcoleptic boyfriend who's amazing. You're way more than narcoleptic. Is he diagnosed narcoleptic? No, I'm saying that. He's not.

I'm just checking. And I'm sorry if that's offensive to anyone who actually is narcoleptic. I think Jimmy Kimmel is narcoleptych. I don't actually know. He just, he can just fall asleep like that. But he also falls asleep like, he can fall asleep like sitting up. He can fall asleep like at a mood, you know, like. My husband is like that.

Yeah. Like, you can't put him in a movie theater like chair because like he's out, you know? For him going to the movies is a waste of money. But anyway, yeah, I hope that's not offensive. That's not at all what I mean. I'm just messing around with the concept of how quickly he falls to sleep. But yeah, so, but he can't sleep on planes, but I can. I have no idea why.

But when we're traveling like abroad, it's more just I know I need to sleep. So then I'll get a little anxious. And so then I'll just take some of that. But I don't have it anymore. And I honestly don't feel like dealing with going to a doctor. to get a prescription for that. For sure. So, and we don't have any, like, major travel in the next year.

So I think I've asked most of the questions that readers submitted on my Instagram when I asked what they wanted me to ask you. But one that I didn't is what are some of your favorite cookbook right now other than your own? So I know this babe. My name is Liz. And she came out with, like, a pretty cool cookbook. Yeah, it was, I asked the question so that I could get you to. No, I do love your cookbook. I do love your cookbook.

And I wouldn't have shared about it otherwise. just because, like, I really want people to trust me. So when they buy it, I really want them to feel good about it. And so, yeah, I do love your cookbook. Thank you. And it just, I mean, part of that is, like, I'm biased because I think you make very simple, like, recipes that I like, which is, like, creative twists on, like, things that kind of sound familiar.

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? So part of that is I just really like your type of food. So I really like yours. I love, even though I'm not like paleo, I love Julie Bauer's paleo-o-M-G cookbook. I think it's similarly, I think Julie's cookbook. I think Danielle Walker's cookbooks similarly, like, yes, they do fall into like a paleo, like a specific whatever, but they're just like well-written recipes, you know what I mean?

And they're like things that you can imagine yourself making and imagine making them like more than once. And so I'm really drawn to those because I could see, yeah, I could just see those becoming like staples in people's homes. And also, I really like Diane Sanfilippo has a keto book. It's called Keto Quick Start. Even if you're never doing keto, like I really like that book. I think it's incredibly informative, has great recipes.

And then actually, Terry Turner is coming to Nashville on June 20th. Do you know her? She has a blog called No Crumbs Left. And she just sent me one of her books. And it's, I actually gave it to my mom because my mom's doing keto, even though it's not keto. It's more like paleo. But Terry Turner, you would love her Instagram. She does like gorgeous stuff.

And she kind of reminds you of like an Ina garden, you know, just kind of like a guru. And her book is Whole30 approved by Melissa Hartwig. But then there's this really fun section at the end that has like family classic recipes. And I just like that because it's a nice balance. All the books I love are exactly what I've said, which is like beautiful, really well written. Like I know a well written recipe when I read one. And there's such a stark difference. So many cookbooks, it's really sad.

but like the recipes don't turn out. Yeah. And that's one of the things I've seen in your reviews. It's like very consistently like your recipes turn out. Well, I also feel like that's to me why one buys a cookbook versus I think two things are different than just because you can look up so many recipes online these days. So I think if you're going to bother to buy a cook, right. It's like, why are you spending money when there's a million recipes online?

And I think it's because one, it should tell a story of some sort. And I think you getting that cohesive look at recipes versus one-offs everywhere. is what a cookbook can offer. But two, it should be very, very, very consistent because it should just be like Uber tested versus, you know, for a blog recipe, I'll make it once and then I'll like maybe have a friend make it or something like that. But it's not for my cookbook, I paid a recipe test or to test everything. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I test everything three times. And then I had a tester test. I would say she probably test 85% of the book. There was a small group of things. I was like, this is such a simple recipe. Like I just don't want to waste her time. Like I knew I didn't need her to do

But yeah, I test everything three times and then she's tested them. Yeah, because, and as you know, also, like, there are so many variables you don't think of, you know? I mean, there's so many little things that can crop up when you do something the second time or the third time that you just would never see the first time. Unfortunately, there are a lot of cookbooks out there that are really poorly written, has some crazy. And, I mean, we all have mistakes. I'm sure my book will have mistakes, just like my first book had mistakes. But I would say, for the most part, the recipes turn out the way they're supposed to. That's like the most important thing.

So yeah, that's really the main thing I look for. And I can tell like when I get a cookbook sent to me or whatever, I can tell pretty quickly if it's a good one. Yeah. All right. I have a few questions that I ask everybody. It's kind of like a quickfire round, but I feel like nothing I do is like actually quickfire. So it's like a slow fire round.

Okay. So slow burn. Let's start with what do you think is the best way to spend 20 minutes every day in the name of being healthier or happier? I would say either going for a very leisurely walk or cuddling with a pet if you have one. And go get a pet if you don't. Go get a pet if you don't, even if it's a goldfish. We can't cuddle a gold.

I truly don't understand when people have pets, they can't cuddle. I'm just like, what's the brain of that? I mean, I guess some people cuddle their snake, but I think the exact, yeah, go get a cat or a dog or a bunny or a sugar bowl. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's a good one. What is a purchase that you've made that has made your life healthier, happier? I'm going to go with my sound machine.

Yeah. So I have a travel sound machine by the company. I don't know how to pronounce it, Dome or Dom, D-O-H-M. It's just a white, it's a mechanical white-noise machine. Yeah, and that's a game changer for me. I really, that I really, I travel with it. And I travel with a regular one. I travel with white noise machine too.

Yeah. And because a lot of people who fall asleep easily, still don't have like great quality sleep, but there's a lot of ambient noise. It can still be like affecting their sleep in it even if they don't realize it. I always wonder though, my dad was like, is it bad for your brain to be processing the white noise all night? I don't think your brain does process it. It just like tunes it out.

Yeah. I think that's the point of white noise is that your brain feels like it can like your brain can shut off because there's nothing to focus on because it's the same over and over again. Interesting. I'll tell my dad that. It's also, I've heard too, that it's what you hear in the womb. Like when you're in the womb, it kind of sounds. Well, that would make sense why a lot of like the sound apps or whatever have like a heartbeat or sort of like, yeah, that like those like consistent.

You know what? Asmr is. Yeah. If you're in the YouTube land. It's so ASMR is like when people, they like whisper talk or like they just do all or they'll eat food or something like that. And it's been shown in so many studies to like help people with anxiety. There's a huge YouTube world around it. But I was just watching another YouTube video that is about why ASMR works. And it was because. you don't get close enough to people to hear sounds like whispering or chewing or stuff like that a lot. So it creates this perceived intimacy just because your brain is like identifying it as this incredibly close intimate moment that you would have experienced with like a parent when you were a baby. Well, that's so weird. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, I feel like so ASMR. I've like seen some ASMR videos but I just they just don't do it. Like I think I maybe like once or twice like felt really relaxed. But for me personally, unfortunately, like listening to somebody chew or like, I know there's ones that are like crinkling paper.

Like I don't know. Yeah. I just haven't like done it for me in particular. Well, and some it's not just even like watching. Like for me the so ASMR you know you're having what is called what has been dubbed ASMR when you have like sort of a tingly head sensation. And for me it's 100% when people do my makeup. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. Something about having somebody do my makeup. Yeah. I love it. Like when someone does my hair like tickles. your back or something. For me, it's like worth changing my whole career so that I have to do way more events

that I like have people do my makeup for because I'm just like, I used it when I had anxiety stuff and I can't do this anymore because I'm not, I'm sort of like in the non-toxic world now. But when I had anxiety stuff before and I didn't care about toxicity at all, I would go to like the local counter at my Nordstrom and just get like a makeup application and I would feel so much better. And then I would have to like come up with a reason that I. wasn't buying anything.

That's so interesting. Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't do it for me, but I will say, like getting someone playing with my hair for sure. Yeah, I love that feeling too. Or like, do you ever do that cracking egg thing? Yeah, any like back tickling or hair playing? Like, I love that.

Yeah. Which I don't know how that would translate to a video, but maybe I'll look into that. There is ASMR where they play with hair. Okay. Which is, I don't know. It's interesting. I mean, that's one of the perks of like living by myself. I can just.

watch weird ass shit. I feel like ASMR is like porn where like if somebody walked in and you were watching it, you'd like close your computer and be like, I wasn't doing that. What are you talking about? I'm brushing my hair over here. Well, I will say I watch YouTube to fall asleep sometimes, but it's just like channels I follow that are just like, you know, chill or talking or whatever. And I keep it on like medium sound and medium volume.

And then I just like kind of get tired, nothing like loud or crazy. But maybe I'll check that out. Definitely. I know there's a whole world of it. There's a whole world of it. Whole world of it is. A huge following. If you haven't looked into it and you're listening, it's worth just checking out because

it's a crazy world. There's also certain, like, I don't know, because some of the ones I've seen are like weird. Yeah, that like make my skin crawl. Yeah. Certain things, like, there was one that I saw that was like, it was like someone scratching a microphone or something. Yeah, I mean, I think you have to.

I'm just going to go down the ASMR rabbit hole. Yeah, just go down. it and like you should watch there's I think it was a wired video that was like the explanation of ASMR and I feel like that's a good place to start because then just search like wired ASMR maybe what does success look like for you well you know it's funny I would say now success is more of a feeling for me because of this journey that I've been on I have a really strong sense of when I'm feeling successful and it's this incredible like feeling of like comfort and like um contentment, and that's not the same as laziness, but I have a very strong sense of at the end

of the day, the opposite of anxiety for me, the opposite of like seeking and searching and restless, that like restless sense of like unfulfillment, you know, that I've kind of bobbed in and out of over the last like 10 years and maybe longer. So for me, I just really know when I'm in a good place. And that can mean, I can feel successful and I've had like the worst day ever on a like objective level. But if I have that like, if I have that feeling, then I'm like, all right, I'm in a good place, you know. Did you feel successful when your book came out? I did. Yeah, for sure. Even before I knew, I mean, even before it was like doing well. Because I really 100% believed I'd done everything when I possibly could. I'd put everything I could into it. Now, as you know, like, yeah, you could extend the

book writing process and write a book for three years and probably catch more little errors or like do whatever. But I really put my blood sweat and tears into it. And so I knew whatever happened with it. I was going to be proud of it. Yeah. That's yeah. I, I, I, I, do you feel like I vacillate, you know, like I, some days, I feel like I put so much in my book. And at the time I would have said, I couldn't have done anything else. But then I think the way that my brain works. But that's what I mean. You can't, that, that's, that's, what I mean. Like that can't, that can't include the things that you learn in hindsight because you cannot know them. All you can do is go off of how you felt when you turn the book in and what you

put into it. Yeah. Because if you didn't have the stuff that you're thinking of now, that would mean you're a perfect alien human. So, you know what I mean? You'd be like the bionic person. So like nobody. Yeah. Well, and it implies that I've grown since I turned the book in and that's a good thing. I discovered avocado oil like a month after I turned my book in and it's like the number one oil I use. I use it like all of my cooking and I got so many questions like what do I substitute for vegetable oils and I turned it and I found it like a month later and I was like dang it. But again, yeah, it's just it's what you did at that time that was your best, you know? And you can tell like when you pick up a product, when someone looks at your book, I mean you can tell what went into it. You

can't fake that, you know. So what's one mistake you made and what's something you think you really got right? Let's see. I would say a mistake that I made and still make sometimes is I can get really defensive when it comes to actually let me reword that. Sometimes I don't assume the best out of people that I'm in relationships with, whether it's family or friends or like a romantic relationship. I have a tendency to be a little bit, yeah, to sort of just be defensive and, like, make assumptions that when people say something to me that they mean it in a negative way, as opposed to assuming the best first and assuming they're coming from a good place. I don't know. I really don't. I think I've always kind of been that way because I've been told

by, like, close friends over my whole life that I can be, like, particularly defensive. So I really don't know. I don't know where it comes from. Like maybe I don't, I don't, now I I don't think my parents are like that. Maybe they were like that when they were raising three kids. Like maybe one of them was like like that. But that's something I really work on is when someone says something to me. And it's not even necessarily criticism so much as it's just when it's something like, I guess, well, maybe it is criticism.

Just something that they're not fully happy with or they may disagree with or something. I can like immediately want to jump down their throat and be like, here's the reasons why you're wrong and I think that you're trying to hurt me, you know? And now what do you do to stop? I mean, no, I really, part of my sort of like daily mindset, I mean, I do a whole bunch of, like, talking to someone at night. And then there's things that just kind of run through my head on a daily basis. Talking to someone, you mean, like, some sort of prayer or whatever you want to call it. I do, like, a whole prayer session and it, like, varies every night.

But then during the day, like, a couple things are running through my head. But one of them is just assume that people are coming from a good place for the most part, you know. Like it's a mantra you tell yourself. Yeah, I always assume it's coming first from a place. of love. And that really helps, you know, for sure. I mean, I don't always get it right, but it definitely helps. And then what's something that you feel like you really got right? I think what I really got right is listening to that intuition, man. Like, we all have it, you know, I think especially women, I think we are so intuitive. And I first really heard my

intuition, like, nibbling away, like, my brain when I decided to, you know, go to culinary school and like changed this career. That was the first time I felt it really strongly and I listened to it and I like really checked in and I memorized what that feeling felt like. And since then, whenever I've had a gut intuition, I believe in it and I trust it and I follow it. And it has not led me astray even through really tough decisions. I love the idea of in those moments of clarity to actually take a second and stop. And like I love what you said, like memorize what it felt like because I do think you have to train your body into the good things and like taking that moment to positively like this is what it feels like to trust myself makes it that much easier the next time

and the next time the next time. It really does. It's a practice and a habit like anything to sort of be like, ooh, I'm feeling that, this sort of weird dis-ease, this sort of weird restlessness and this thing that's like for some reason this thought keeps popping up or whatever. And then you almost have to have an out-of-body experience and sort of like, fight with your rational brain and trust that, you know, irrational gut part of you. And yeah, the more you do it, the easier it is. And the more you trust it because you see the result. Okay, can I ask you something? As I struggle with this a lot, as somebody who has struggled with anxiety over my whole life, I think it's hard to know when to trust your gut when sometimes

what feels like your gut is saying like, this plane is going to crash. This is going to be scary just because anxiety tells you a lot of things that aren't true. And I think it can make it hard to get clarity on when to trust yourself almost. So how do you deal with that? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I think for me, I deciphered. For me, there's a huge difference between my anxiety voice and my intuition. Like, they don't sound at all alike.

What's a different? Can you like that's negative? So the anxiety is, I mean, it's negative. It's the hypochondriac. It's the catastrophic thinking. And like, I can tell when I'm going down a rabbit hole of catastrophic thinking. my intuition, even if it's asking me to do something that's hard, it's always positive and loving and comes with a deep sense of like, I don't know, like a very sort of, it's a very like solid,

like warm feeling, you know, and it feels very like protective and nurturing and all of that. Whereas my anxiety voice, which I've had my whole life, I mean, I thought I was going to die of an aneurysm like every day from like age eight to 12 is a frenetic. sound and it's just yeah and it's like it doesn't give me time to like breathe or make my own decisions where like my intuition kind of like pushes at me and then like lets me go and then pushes it me um so yeah some of that i think is is is learning to to tell the difference between that anxious voice i mean your anxious voice is really going to be um prompting you towards that like very id, that like, you know, like self-protection part of it, whereas your intuition is

more going to be a sense of like trusting that what will happen will be what it's like supposed to be, you know? That's really, yeah. Yeah, I think I need to practice that. Yeah, it's a practice for sure. I mean, I got lucky because I happened to have a really big life reason to do that, you know, and then I felt it again about a, you know, a year ago and I felt it with my cookbook. and I felt it with my second cookbook.

It doesn't happen that often. But when it does, like now, yeah, it's a very, it's very different than like the insomnia, anxious, you know, rabbit hole. Interesting. Yeah. Is there a place that you've been in the world that you feel like these people really got it right in terms of living a good life? And if so, where was it?

Yeah, the Amalfi Coast. Yeah? Oh my God. Yeah. They are just like living their best life. So this woman, I went to a cooking class on the Amalfi Coast in Reve. Velo. Her name is Mama Agatha. And she lives built in in the cliffs of the Amalfi Coast and her life, which particularly for you and I, because we love food, I think we're both pretty like romantic,

creative people. She lives in this like grotto built into the coast. And she has a family and then people who work for her all part of the community. And so you meet them all because she teaches these cooking classes outside where they're covered, but it's like overlooking the cliff. Yeah, you get there and there was like lemon. cake and coffee and then you just like make the stuff with her. But she'll be making it in her like beautiful terracotta kitchen. But she's like, if you want to go out and take a nap, if you want to go pick the cherry tomatoes, which tastes like candy, you can do that. And she is just such a perfect example of someone who, she is a thriving business. That woman makes bank on those classes.

And she, you know, like, I don't think her labor is like, I don't think her overhead is that expensive. I don't think her labor is that much. And everyone that we met was just so full of love and so happy. I think so much of it was just they took the life that they were given and they just like really like did a deep dive into the things they loved and created a world out of it. You know? And there was never this sense of like what else could I be doing or what else is it? Because they've never left that they, I mean, she has because she's traveled, but the people who work for her and stuff. And yeah, I just remember feeling like she'd gotten something like figured out. You did. I think it's interesting because all like I it sounds beautiful and wonderful,

but it's interesting to me that you pointed out that she made bank. Do you think that money is like a key part of having a good life or where do you think that factors then? Yeah. I mean, I do think, I mean, I so here's what I think about money. I think to a certain threshold, it does matter. I think to the point where, and this can change from person to person. Like for me, I'm not somebody. I don't have things that are like ridiculously expensive that I desperately want in my. life. I want enough money to stay in my apartment, stay independent, save for when I'm, you know, save for retirement and be able to travel and have business expense and pay for, you know, new equipment. And so I think everybody has their own threshold. That's not true. Everybody has a threshold below

which you're in like real discomfort. And that's when you need those basic needs met. That above that basic threshold of human need, everyone's is a little bit different. I think depending on where you like to spend your money, do you have a family? I think, once you meet that threshold of your particular need, then I think the gratuitous money doesn't really matter. I think what was cool about what she did that was so impressive to me is she probably only needs a fraction of what she makes. But it was amazing because what I see is that financial success seems to follow from people who create really sort of like niche unique, high quality content from like what they're best at and what they really love, you know, I think she's just a

great example of that. I love that. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. I loved it. It was so fun. I really hope you guys love this episode. And I would love to hear what sort of resonated with you or what mindset shifts you had or what new things you're going to try out or any other questions that you have that we did not answer on the episode. So definitely come over to Instagram and screenshot stuff, puts up in your stories, tag me. I'm at Liz. And tag Laura Lee. She's at Laura Lee balanced and Lee has L-E-A. Definitely do that.

We would love to continue the conversation and to kind of make this a full circle conversation where we actually hear back from all of you. It absolutely makes our day. Also, I would love to hear your feedback on the episode over on iTunes. If you wanted to just leave a quick rating or review, say one thing you loved about the episode. I massively appreciate it. I read every single review and they, I cannot tell you how much they,

impact my mood and my day. And they just make me feel like people are listening and enjoying the podcast. And it really means the world to me. So I so appreciate every time you guys do that. And yeah, I'm really excited. I will see you on the next episode of the podcast. It's a good one. So make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss it and have a great one. I'm genuinely confused how Masterclass gets literally the absolute top people in every single field to teach every single one of their classes. I use it when I want to learn. things directly, like the cooking class from Thomas Keller has all of the wisdom that you would normally have to go to culinary school for. But also, I'm being honest, this is like a use case I don't

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