The Liz Moody Podcast - Marie Forleo—Simple Solutions For The Biggest Relationship, Dating, Career, and Mental Health Problems

Episode Date: October 16, 2019

I have an AWESOME guest for you on the show today—the incomparable Marie Forleo. Marie is a powerhouse of a woman. She was named by Oprah as a thought leader for the next generation, and is the NYTimes best-selling author of the freshly released Everything Is Figureoutable. She also hosts MarieTV and created B-School. In this episode, we talk about the crazy career journey that took her from bartending and working multiple jobs to being the powerhouse businesswoman she is today. Because Marie has spent years as a life coach, I really pressed her for actionable tips about all parts of life: going after your dream life, having success in dating and in long term relationships, and even dealing with health issues like anxiety. She shares her advice for meeting a partner when it really seems like there’s no one good out there and the communication secrets she’s used in her personal relationship to keep it healthy and happy for over a decade, including her thoughts on couples therapy. We get into money stuff: does it matter? How much? How do you know if you should quit your 9-5 and pursue a passion job? Should everyone do their passion as work? We talk about loneliness, and how it’s the epidemic of our time, and she offers some very pragmatic actionable tips to deal with loneliness that I’ve never heard before. She also shares a genius tip for telling the difference between intuition and anxiety. I hope you come away from this episode inspired to live your best life in every single way, which, to me, is really what it means to be healthy. As always, I’d love to hear from you what’s resonating, so screenshot & tag both me (@lizmoody) and Marie (@marieforleo) on Instagram—we’d love to continue the conversation! Things Marie mentioned in this episode: https://imagorelationships.org/ https://www.marieforleo.com/2018/10/harville-hendrix-helen-lakelly-hunt-marriage-advice/ Enjoy! PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy right here or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! This episode is sponsored by Better Help, an online therapy platform that I use and love. On their website, you answer a few questions and are matched with a licensed, professional therapist, who you can be chatting with within 24 hours. You can also schedule weekly video or phone sessions, so you have multiple ways to have therapy in a way that’s convenient for you. Join over 500,000 people using the super affordable serving worldwide by using the link betterhelp.com/healthiertogether to get 10% off your first month of service. It’s changed my mental health and I truly hope it helps you! This episode is also sponsored by Skinny Dipped almonds, which I’m 100% obsessed with. They’re roasted almonds with a super thin layer of chocolate, and they also have a coating of maple syrup and sea salt that gives them a sweet & salty quality that’s utterly addictive. They’re gluten free, made from mostly organic ingredients, and come in amazing flavors—you must try the Peppermint ones, or the Peanut Butter (but also Zack loves the Espresso and the Mint ones so you can’t really go wrong—follow your heart). They’re perfect for when you want a sweet healthy treat (after all, you’re mostly eating almonds!!). They’re truly one of my favorite snacks, and I can’t wait for you to try them. Get 10% off your order using the code “healthiertogether” on skinnydipped.com. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I am your host, Liz Moody, and I am a cookbook author and long-time wellness journalist living in Brooklyn, New York. I actually just started working on my new book proposal, which is really exciting. If there's anything that you absolutely loved about the healthier together cookbook or things that you wish were in there that weren't, please, please, please. Come message me on Instagram. I'm at Liz Moody. I want to make this one even more helpful for you. and so many of you on Instagram have shared awesome feedback,

and it's definitely going to change this book. So thank you, thank you, thank you for that. I have an awesome guest for you on the show today, the incomparable Marie Forleo. Marie is a powerhouse of a woman. She was named by Oprah as a thought leader for the next generation, and you better believe that I asked her for the scoop on what Oprah's like in real life,

because I've got to get that celebrity gossip. She also tells a really fun story about Eckhart Toll, the author of The Power of Now, which sold like, I don't know, eight bagillion copies. So be excited for that. When I interviewed Marie a few weeks ago, her book, Everything is Figure Outable, had just come out. And we talk in this episode about all of the feelings that come with that.

And then a few days later, she hit the New York Times bestseller list. So she is officially a New York Times bestselling author, which is very, very, very fancy. She also hosts Marie TV and created her B school, which is like the online business school. I know so many people have taken it and it's completely transformed their businesses and their lives. In this episode, we talk about her crazy career journey that took her from bartending and working multiple jobs to being the powerhouse businesswoman that she is today. Because Marie spent years as a life coach, I really pressed her for actionable tips about all parts of life, going after your dream job, having success in dating and in long-term relationships,

and even dealing with health issues like anxiety. She shares her advice for meeting a partner when it really seems like there's no one good out there. I really, really pushed her on this one. I wanted more than the like, believe in yourself, love yourself stuff that a lot of the dating experts tell you. She also shares the communication secrets that she used in her own personal relationship to keep it healthy and happy for over a decade, which is pretty impressive, including her thoughts on couples therapy. We also get into money stuff. Does it matter?

How much does it matter? How do you know if you should quit your 9 to 5 and pursue a passion job? Should everyone do their passion as work? We talk about loneliness, which you guys know I love to talk about because I truly believe it is the epidemic of our time and the more we shine light on that, the more we can work together to make it better and to swage that epidemic. And she offers some very pragmatic, actionable tips to deal with loneliness that I have actually never heard before. She also shares a genius tip for telling the difference between intuition and anxiety that I myself have used a few times since recording this episode,

so I can definitely tell you that it really, really works. I hope that you come away with this episode inspired to live your best life in every single way, which is to me what it really means to be healthy. It's not just the green smoothies or, you know, feeling like you're missing out on fun desserts that your friends are eating. Everything should feel. I always say wellness is a tool, not an unto itself.

So it's a tool to live your best life. and I feel like this episode has so many tools to live your absolute best life. I'm so excited for you guys to hear it. As always, I would love to hear from you what's resonating. So screenshot and tag both me. I'm at Liz Moody and Marie. She is at Marie for Leo on Instagram. We would both love, love, love to continue the conversation.

Oh, one other super quick thing. I have been absolutely loving all of your thoughtful iTunes reviews. Seriously, I sit on the couch and I read them out. out loud to Zach and I cry sometimes and they just touch me so, so deeply. And I really wanted to do something to thank you for all of it. So for taking the time and the energy and the effort to, also like for listening in general, I know that your time is valuable and the fact that you're willing to, you're excited about spending an hour or two of it with me touches me so deeply. I can't even say. So I am taking a page from my friend Rachel Mansfield's book. She did this for

her new cookbook. And every month, I'm going to send out little thank you presence with a bunch of my favorite healthy products, things like collagen and probiotics and books and non-toxic beauty and my favorite healthy foods of the moment and all of that type of stuff. So if you do leave an iTunes review or if you have already in the past anytime, just screenshot it, share it on your Instagram and tag me at Liz Moody so I can see it. And that's it. Every month or maybe even more often, And I'll see how often I can do this, but I'd like to do it pretty often. I will pick someone to send a little healthy care package out to. I really, really, really appreciate your support of the podcast.

And I love our little family here. And I really can't wait to send these out. I'm going to, like, write little notes. I'll draw you little drawings. And I think it's just to be so fun to, like, put together little boxes of all of the things that I'm loving in the world and sending it to you. So I hope you guys like those. Just leave a podcast review, screenshot at Tag me on Instagram.

that's it. And if I don't pick you the month you do it, I can, I'm going to keep track of everybody. So I might pick you three or four months later. So don't, don't despair if you're not picked the month that you posted on Instagram. All right. That is enough from me. Let's get into this week's episode with the amazing Marie for Leo. Marie, thank you so much for joining me. I feel like you must be exhausted. You've been doing this like crazy schedule. I feel actually really good. I think because I'm so excited about this idea and I've been looking forward to this for such a long time. I'm actually doing good. That does not to say that in like a few weeks or maybe a month or two, I'm going to need to sleep, like really, really sleep. But right now I'm good.

What do you do to, I was reading your book and I was so struck by the insane amount of energy that you seem to have all of the time. What do you do? Do you feel like you have more energy than the average person? I don't know because I've never lived in anyone else's body. Do you know what I mean? So it's hard to really answer. But I do feel excited by life. But here's what I do know. If I am not honoring my intuition, if I'm hiding like an inconvenient truth, maybe there's something off in a relationship or there's something that I'm not wanting to admit to myself, a lot of which happened earlier in my career, not so much recently, that would tire me out. And I would feel exhausted and I would feel off track and not wanting to do much and maybe

sleeping a lot more than I needed to or not necessarily feeling as motivated to go work out or to create things. But I think having done what I've been doing for 20 years now, I've learned a lot about myself and to be able to catch quicker if something's not right to handle it quickly. Otherwise, it can be an energy drain. So what does that feel like when you're like, oh, something's not right? What do you sense in your body? I usually get, yeah, like intuitive messages like, oh, I need to check in with that person. Is our relationship okay? Or gosh, I don't trust that vendor. Or is everything okay in this part of the business, like I usually get an intuitive little nudge. And then I go investigate, which usually means going to have a conversation, like picking up a phone,

sending an email, setting up a meeting, something like that. Or even in my personal relationship, Josh, my partner and I, we've been together for 16 years. And if I feel like, oh, something's up. Like I can see that it seems like everything's okay, but I feel a disconnect. And same thing with him, we call each other out in it immediately and sit and have those sometimes to have conversations that can get the connection back online so it doesn't go too far off track. So that's actually, I wanted to talk to you about sort of business and life stuff with everything is figureoutable. But your first book was a dating book.

Yes. Which I think is so interesting. So I wanted to start first in the dating relationship world because I'm so impressed with a 16-year relationship. I'm in a 12-year one. And it's hard, you know. So I wanted to know if there's advice you have, first of all, for people dating because your book was about dating. What do you think people do wrong when they're dating if you're going to

say like one thing? And then we'll talk about relationships. I know what I did wrong. My biggest thing was this undercurrent of not feeling like I was enough. There was something desperate and needy and wanting to kind of reach out and cling on to someone. And for my own experience, I think that was just an undercurrent of a societal message that especially a lot of women here, maybe not so much anymore, but I certainly did grow up. Oh no. I think they still did. Yeah. Where it's like like, you know, the goal is to find a partner and then to get married and then to have kids. And it's kind of this script that we're taught ever since, you know, we can comprehend. And so I feel like I was operating out of that in my late teens and early 20s. And it wasn't until I got really grounded in my

own worth and who I am and that I am actually complete on my own. And I'd like to have a relationship in order to just grow and connect and have more adventures with another human, but not because I'm needy or desperate. And so I think when I made that shift in myself, it shifted my entire dating landscape. And then the other thing for me was also being really honest. You know, I am a woman. I've never dreamed of getting married. I've never wanted to have kids. And that was a really difficult conversation for a lot of men that I dated because they just assume they're like, oh, I could see us moving to the suburbs. And there's nothing wrong with the suburbs. But it's just not my life path.

Yeah. And I could see us having these kids and I want to have four kids. And I'm like, are you actually listening to who I am? That's not what I want. So I think another piece of the dating game is about getting really honest with yourself about what you want a relationship to be like, you know. What about I have friends? And I think they feel like they're enough and they're confident and all of that.

But they also feel so strongly that they want a family, that they want a partner, that that is their vision of their life. Sure. And so in some ways, they will never feel like enough until they have those things. It's not because they feel like they aren't good enough, but it's just like that is what they want their life to look like. Sure. How would you figure out of all that? Yeah. Well, I think you have to get really honest between you and you. And you have to ask yourself the question. Like, what is it about this? Do I need to have this particular picture and why? Like, why is this picture so important? Is it that I want to have connection with people? Is it that I want to have a child? Do I need? need to have all these things line up. For example, I have a dear friend of mine who decided in her 40s, the most important thing to her, again, she wanted the picture that she had always dreamed of, but what she really wanted was to have a baby and to raise a child. And she made the decision that she was going to do it on her own. And she did it. And she just had her baby last year,

and she's happier than she's ever been. And she doesn't have that perfect picture. But when we talk, she's like, you know, I got really honest with myself about the ultimate thing that I want. And I started to figure that out and make that happen. So I think, you know, we can't control outside circumstances. We can control other people, but we can control ourselves and we can control how we view our lives and how we're going to frame our lives and whether or not we're saying we're being successful or we're not. We get to kind of set those rules up. And I think that holding on to an external picture of how things must be, I don't know. I think that sets a lot of us up for failure. Okay. So what about in long-term relationships? You guys, I know that you've talked about,

You guys went to couples therapy for a little bit. Was that useful? Would you recommend it? So here's what I would recommend. I've done a lot of different things when it comes to improving a relationship. So many seminars, so many books, tried out so many different methodology because as you shared, relationships are not easy. You know, it's not easy to have a relationship with yourself. And then you add another person into the mix and like all of their quirks and their baggage and their goals and their dreams.

And it's, you know, sometimes it can be a little bit of a shit show. The best method that I've found, it's called Imagophtherapy, and it's by a couple named Harville, Hendricks, and Helen Lekelly Hunt. Harville wrote a book back in the 90s called Getting the Love You Want. They still do workshops around. I will tell you, I have recommended it to people who are on the brink of divorce or the brink of breaking up, and it has saved their marriage again and again. It is the one thing. Therapy was useful because it got Josh and I through a couple things, but it wasn't until we found getting the love you want. and specifically Imago therapy and started using their tools and there's something called dialogue,

that it is utterly transformative. They talk about the fact that isn't it funny that you have to take a test to get a driver's license, but nobody makes you take a test to get married. Nobody tests your listening or relationship skills. I do love that some religions, they'll have you like meet with a pastor and do pre-marriage sort of, they'll make you talk about like your values and your money and I'm not religious, but I always found that really fascinating. Whereas for me, I was just like, good luck.

Both my parents are divorced. Like have fun. But I think, though, and all of those conversations are really important, but how do you have tools to extricate yourself from conflict and still stay connected? How are you able to discuss things that are difficult? So having conversations when everyone's happy and you're looking forward, that's one thing. But when you're both at each other's throats or you're not communicating or you're not

connecting to have a set of tools that can get you back on track, to me, that's priceless. And that what they've taught me and what they teach in their therapies goes so far beyond any conversation in any context that we could have premarital. Could you give me like a little snippet of just something that you've internalized that's helped you in your relationship that you learned in that? One thing is just the power of truly having someone else feel heard and to really mirror back what that person is experiencing, what they're saying from their point of view, validating their perspective, validating how they feel, even if I don't agree, for example, you know, Josh may have misinterpreted something that I said, and he's hurt by that.

Even though I know clearly in my bones, that wasn't my intention, if he's hurt, and this is his whole reality in universe right now, for me to step into his world, validate what he feels, see it, have him be heard. All of a sudden, we're not fighting anymore. And I didn't have to say I was wrong. I just had to go into his world and understand it. So what did you say? What would you say in that instance specifically?

Well, there's a whole dialogue that they actually teach you. It's a complete training. And I don't think we'd have the time to go into it here. But it's very, very structured. And at first, it can seem really awkward. I actually did an interview with them on Marie TV. If you just Google search, Harville and Helen and Marie Forleo, you will find it. You'll get like an hour-long kind of download.

But the point is, no one teaches us how to do this. And it's a really, really great communication tool that they're actually using outside of intimate relationships. They're taking it into communities. So they've taken it into the Dallas police force. And so people are learning communication skills that's called safe conversations, how when there is conflict, when people disagree, how can you stay connected, understand each other's perspectives and get everything back online. It's brilliant. Has you and Josh started dating when you were at a very different phase in your career? Yes.

Has your success, your massive outsized success, changed your guys' career at all? Or your relationship? No, but I think it's a challenge for any couple. Like, for example, just last night we had an incredible event here in New York City. And it was at the Hammerstein Ballroom. And we describe it if a Beyonce concert and a TED Talk had a baby and through a block party, that's what we're doing. And I literally spent months preparing for this show, which was really like a concert. And Josh, who's an actor, he has three different projects.

at the Toronto Film Festival. He's in The Joker. And last night, which was the night of my book launch, Joker was premiering in Toronto. So he could not be two places at once. And this kind of thing has come up in our relationship time and time again. And we just try and stay connected. And I always tell him, I'm like, look, you know, if you feel that you need to be in Toronto for this premiere, even though I would be disappointed and I would miss you, I get it. I understand and I completely support you on that. You know, because I, what I want for him and I think what he wants for me is each other's happiness, whatever that looks like. And however we can facilitate that for one another, it's not always easy. It doesn't mean that your feelings don't get hurt or, do you know

what I mean? Things like that. But it turned out last night, he was like, no, I'm going to be there for your concert and then I'm going to jump on a plane the next morning and get to the next premiere. So he's gone now. He's gone. Yeah. So he's so, but we do that and we just try and stay on the same page. Again, it's not always easy. We don't get it perfect. And sometimes. there's that tug of war that happens. But, you know, after 16 years, it's like, we've been through enough together that we're like, we can do this. We can figure this out. Yeah. That's so interesting. Okay. So let's get into the new book, which is that everything is figure outable, which was a lesson that your mom was the first person who said that to you, right? Yes. Which I find so interesting. And do you

think your mom applied that to her own life? Because you talk about sort of how you were raised without a lot of financial means and your parents got divorced, although then they got back together. They did. And they're still together to this day. Yes. So, you know, my mom grew up in the projects of New York, New Jersey, and she was the daughter of two alcoholic parents. So she kind of learned by necessity how to stretch a dollar bill around the block a few times. So that was her upbringing. So as a kid, one of my fondest memories was sitting around the kitchen table on Sundays, cutting out coupons with my mom. And she loved teaching me all the ways that we could save money. And one of the things that she also taught me was that if you saved up what's called proofs of purchase, that brands would send you like cooking utensils or, like, like a recipe book, like free, cool things. And one of her most prize possessions was this little transistor radio that she got from Tropicana Orange Juice for free. So it looked like an orange. It had a red and white straw sticking out of the top. That was the antenna. And she loved this thing. And my mom's one of those humans who's like always busy. She's always doing something. So as a kid,

I knew I could find her by listening for the sound of that radio, like somewhere in the yard or in the house. And one day I get home. And the radio is playing off in the distances. And I got close. the orientation was from above. And I see my mom perched on top of our two-story house, like precariously. And I looked up and I'm like, mom, are you okay? Like, what are you doing up there? She says, oh, Ray, I'm fine. The roof had a leak. I called the roofer. He said it would be at least 500 bucks. I said, screw that. I'm going to fix it myself. And another time I come home and I hear the radio coming from the back of the house. And I pushed the door open. She was in the bathroom. There's like dust particles in the air and pipe sticking out of the wall. And I was like, what's it? What are you doing? She's like,

I'm fine. Everything's okay. The tiles had some cracks. I didn't want it to get moldy. So I'm retiling the bathroom. And now you got to get, my mom is high school educated. And this was the 80s. So this is like a pre-internet, pre-Utube, pre-Google world. One day I got home and my house was very quiet and dark, which is unusual for an Italian-American home. I had this pit in my stomach not knowing what I would find. Everything was dark. And I'm walking around the house, tiptoeing. And all of a sudden, I hear these little clicks and clacks from the kitchen. And I walk in the kitchen. And I walk in there and I see my mom hunched over the kitchen table, which looked like an operating room, and she had like screwdrivers and electrical tape, and her little Tropicana orange radio was

dismantled in like a dozen pieces. And I was like, Mom, that's your favorite radio. Is everything okay? And she's like, all right, it's no big deal. The antenna was a little off and the tuner was busted, so I'm fixing it. And I finally asked my mom, I was like, how do you know how to do so many things that you've never done before, but nobody's shown you how to do it. And she put down her screwdriver and she cocked her head to the side. And she's like, what are you talking about? Nothing in life is that complicated if you just roll up your sleeves, get in there and do it. Everything is figure outable. And it was like, it was just like a gong that reverberated through my soul. And I'd seen her my whole childhood, no matter what was going on, she like ran straight at any little problem to try and

figure it out. So I feel like I grew up with that in my DNA. And it's helped me every single stage of my life continues to help me to this day. What was the hardest thing you've run into to figure out the figure outable element of it? Well, at different stages of my life, like in high school, I found myself in a physically abusive, like, toxic relationship. So getting myself out of that was difficult at that stage in my life. And I think in my early 20s, figuring out my place in this world, you know, how to make a difference and have a career and earn a living and like be who I am. Like that was difficult at that time. And I think, you know, at this stage in my life, growing a company,

and growing a brand and keeping the team happy and continuing to do innovative, creative work and still be sane and have a life outside of the company. You know, those are things that we're figuring out. But again, I used to even when I was writing this book, this was not easy because I was used to consistently running the business and doing the show and like to fit in writing a book, I found it really difficult. And I said, isn't this great? I'm getting my butt kicked how to figure out how to write the book.

Everything is figure outable. Do you know what I mean? Like I was getting that lesson back again. And so I think it's so useful and it's so practical and it's so simple, which is why it works. So you did do like a ton of different careers in your 20s, which I found fascinating. You were like you worked in magazines. You were a dance instructor and you worked with Nike. And then you became a coach.

Bartending, waiting tables, cleaning toilets. I used to sell glow sticks. I mean, you name it. I did it. Again with the energy. I was like reading and I was like, oh my gosh. Like I just need a nap. I'm reading about this.

A lot of people feel that way around me. That's good. That's not a problem. But you became a coach, I think, before there was sort of this big boom of coaches. Yes. Do you think that coaching has reached a capacity? Or do you think that everybody, if they want to be a coach still? Like, I just feel like so many people these days who maybe don't know what else to do. They're like, you felt a very strong calling to like be a coach and that you could help people transform their lives.

And I think a lot of people almost embody that if you can't do teach element of coaching or they want the life. that goes with it. What do you think about sort of the boom and coaching? Well, I think it's interesting. I think a lot more people are looking for hope and inspiration and tools. I think it's reflective of the fact that we're not taught a lot of really fundamental life skills in traditional education. Part of the reason I do what I do now, honestly, is because when I started understanding about personal development and self-development and that you could actually use your thoughts to change your mind and you could have an impact on how your reality is showing up. I'm like, why didn't anyone teach us this in high school? You know, and then you look at the world of just personal finance or health or nutrition. And there's

so many different areas we just don't know about until we're adults and we're usually like halfway down the wrong lane. So from that perspective, I think it's awesome that we're waking up and we're seeing such value in continuing education. But in terms of the bone and coaching, like anything else, you have to be really great at your craft, meaning you have to be able to get people results, but then you also have to understand how to run a business. And those are two very different things. So I think that there's a lot of coaches out there and I want to see people succeed. But I think the message I would share is like get really good at your craft at whatever the results are you're helping people achieve. But then please study business somewhere. Because in order to thrive as a coach,

you have to understand the mechanics of the business. And, you know, there's 7.7.7. billion people on the planet. There's a lot of people that need help. So I don't think we're at a saturation point. I think what happens this. Once you start learning about something, you start seeing it everywhere. You know, the RAS, the reticular activating system. Like, oh, I'm looking at a red car and all of a sudden you see that red car all around the street. That's what happens when people get into the coaching world. You start seeing this kind of ecosystem. You're like, oh my gosh, everyone's a coach now. It's not necessarily true. It's just once you get into this world, you start seeing everyone and it feels like there's a ton of us. Yes, there is a gross increase in the number of coaches

since when I started, but I still don't think we're at a saturation point. So I'd assume for the getting good at the business part, you would recommend your B school, which we can- Or anything. Honestly, like any, and we should talk about B-School for sure, but I just want people, part of the reason I started B-School was because when my business was starting to get traction, I would have a lot of women asking me, like, how are you doing this? Like, how do you seem to have this career that's working and you're teaching dance and you're doing all these things you want to do. And I would tell them like, you have to understand sales and marketing. They're like, no, I want someone else to do that for me. I'm the idea person. Like I have this great idea for this thing I want to do, but I need to

find a partner because I'm just not a numbers person. I wanted to shake them because I'm like, no, if you've got an idea you believe in and you think it could really change people's lives, then you need to embrace what I call modern marketing and understand sales and understand that that's the lifeblood of any thriving business. And it doesn't have to be slimy. It doesn't have to be scary. It doesn't have to be manipulative. The best of you comes out if you do it right. So like generosity and empathy and compassion and giving other people what they need far before you ever ask for a sale. Like those are all the elements of modern marketing. But again, not many people know that. They just think of it like a used car salesman. So I want to talk more about the V school. But the first thing,

which was you have to get really good at your craft. How do you recommend people do that? Because there's so much crap information out there online. And I wouldn't want somebody just reading a bunch of, I'm a journalist. I wouldn't want somebody reading a bunch of my articles and then regurgitating that as a coach, you know? So how do people become a specialist in their field? Well, I think you have to actually have practical experience. So one of the things that I did was I worked with as many one-on-one clients as I could.

And oftentimes I wouldn't get paid. That's why I was bartending and waiting tables. I was like, look, I didn't want to be a desperate life coach. Like, what is more pathetic than that? but I would work with as many people as I could to actually help them create results. And through doing that, you gain real world experience. I'm sure just like as a journalist, right, you can't just pretend you know how to write. You actually have to go write the stories.

You have to do the interviews. And the more you do that, the better you get at your craft. So I think the same thing is true with coaching. And now... So were you giving people like kind of not so great advice at the very beginning as you were honing your craft? I don't think so because as a coach, it's not about me having the answers. It was always about being evocative and asking questions and drawing forth what my clients really wanted and then helping them co-create what their strategy is to move ahead.

So it wasn't like I've never positioned myself like I'm Moses coming down from the mountain. I don't think anyone has all the answers in life. But here's what I do know. I know how to ask great questions. I'm very intuitive. I know how to help people clarify what it is they say they want and then help create a game plan towards getting it. So none of that is actually reliant upon all of my wisdom.

that's just relying upon me being a really great partner with someone to help get them across that finish line. Does that make sense? Yeah, that totally makes sense. So in that sense for coaches, it's like, well, work with as many clients as you can. Or if you have expertise around a particular problem and solution, get people into a program, beta test it, find out what works and what doesn't. Refine your process. Like, we can talk about B-School as a program. When I first did that over a decade ago, the program itself, which is an online training program, every year we would get feedback surveys. from our students say, oh, I loved this part. I would love to learn more about this.

I need a little more tactical information here or a few more resources. And we would say, great. And we take all that feedback and we make the program better. And you make it better. So it's an iterative process. It's an evolving process. And I think that for anyone, you know, whether you are a baker and you're making recipes or you're someone who's a designer or a developer of any kind, you know, you're going to put out an initial product.

You're going to give it to your core audience. you're going to get their feedback and you're going to refine it and make it better. Same thing with coaching. Is there one really actionable piece of business advice, like very specific, tangible that you could give people listening? Absolutely. I think that people emphasize social way too much. So they try and build up their social pages.

So, for example, everybody lives on Instagram right now. But I think the downfall that not a lot of people consider is you don't own that platform. So you do not own the connection that you have with your customers. And as we've seen, if anyone's been on Instagram for a while, you've seen that organic reaches down. You know, even though you have X amount of people that follow you, a tiny portion of that actually see your post. So I've been very bullish on building your opt-in email list for over 20 years. I started email marketing back in like the year 2000.

Our email marketing is one of the most powerful components of our business. And sometimes you'd be like, oh, I think your Instagram following should be much higher. I'm like, I am not prioritizing a platform that I don't. own. I prioritize the connection with my customers where if I'm showing up in their inbox and consistently delivering value, developing that relationship with them, building that trust, that's what drives any healthy business. And for people to just build their platform on a business on a platform they don't own, it's a really risky thing to do. And one day you're going to have it pulled out from underneath you. And if you were going to try to build an email list,

I don't want to get too far into this, into the weeds, but if you're going to try to build an email list and you literally have no following, you have no. You have no. And if you're going to try to build an email list and you have nothing to start with. That's where we all start, by the way, FYI, right? Nobody just comes down. You talked about in some interview that you would be like bartending and you'd be like, join my email list. Oh, I used to carry around. Can I just tell you, I carried around a yellow legal pad like everywhere. And this is back before the like anti-camspan laws where I could literally take someone's name and email and add them to my list when they gave me permission. But we all start at zero. And again, we'd probably have to get into the strategy about it. But people will be happy

to give you their name and email address if you're delivering some kind of value that they really want. And that looks different, whether you have a service-oriented business or a product-based business. You know, there's many, many different authentic strategies to make that come to life in your business. But it's all about generosity. It's all about taking care of people. And when you do that, folks are happy to become a fan of your brand and they're happy to read your emails if you do it right. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. You all know that I've been really open with you about my struggles with anxiety.

I shared my whole anxiety story on my Instagram, so definitely head over there if you're like, what? Liz has anxiety, but basically, I was completely agoraphobic for a while and I still struggle with generalized anxiety disorder. While I think there are a ton of wellness practices that can help with anxiety, I truly believe in the power of therapy. And not just because both of my parents and both of Zach's parents are therapists, which is definitely a story for another day.

The only problem, it can be super hard to find a good therapist, and then seeing said therapist can be crazy expensive. That's why I'm so excited to share BetterHelp with you. BetterHelp is an online professional counseling platform that I've been using for a few months now. You go on their site and you answer a few questions about the state of your mental health and what you're looking for, and then they match you with a licensed professional therapist. And if you don't like that therapist, no worries, it's totally free and super easy to change to a different one. Within 24 hours, you can be messaging that therapist and I have been so impressed with both the quality and the timeliness of the responses that I've gotten. Beyond that,

you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions. And I have to say, I was skeptical about this at first. I thought there was no way it could be as helpful as sitting in the room with an actual therapist. But it really is. I love my therapist so much. And I also love not having to like lose an hour of my day to get all the way to the session and back. With therapy, consistency is so important and being able to fit my sessions way more easily into my weekly routine has been a total game changer. It's also way cheaper than traditional therapy, like less than a third of how much you would pay here in New York City, which I absolutely love because I do not think that taking care of your mental health should be a luxury that's only afforded to people

with a ton of money. Plus, they have financial aid, so if you don't feel like you can afford it, definitely send them an email. They really want to make sure that therapy is available to all people, which they're doing a pretty good job of because there are already 500,000 people using the service worldwide. They were kind enough to give me a code so that healthier together listeners can get 10% off of their first month of service. Just go to betterhelp.com. That's better help, the word help.com slash healthier together to get the discount. It's really easy to sign up and you can start therapy right away, which means that you can start feeling better right away. Also, if you are struggling with mental health issues, I want you to know that you are not alone at all. So many of us

are in it with you and I am in it with you. And if you're feeling lonely or anxious or depressed, know that you're not weird or damaged and you can still have an amazing, amazing life and know that I am 100% there for you. All right. Let's get back to the episode. So we definitely live in an age of, you know, you can make your passion your life. Your passion should be your business. if you're doing a job that you hate, get out of it. And there's been a lot of talk about how that contributes to burnout because essentially you are what you are selling all the time. Do you think that everybody should be pursuing their passion as their main source of

income? Do you think that the side hustle is as good as it is sometimes exhausting and overwhelming? What do you think about sort of passion in general and the era we're in about passion? Yeah, I think it kind of sets people up for failure and aware. way. So first of all, most of us don't luck out and find ourselves in a position where we can be like, I'm going to be passionate about what I do all day long and earn a living. And if I don't have that, then I'm failing at life. I think that that's kind of bullshit. And I think that for most of us, we have to be in jobs that maybe aren't our favorite. Like I bartended and waited tables

for seven years before I was comfortable enough financially and emotionally to go all in on my business that I have today. And so, you know, passion is an inside job. You have to bring it to whatever you're doing. One of the biggest shifts in my life was when I was like just kind of not, I don't want to say angry, but I just didn't feel good about being a bartender and waiting tables because I saw other things for myself. And I realized that being like upset and feeling bad and shameful about my day job when I was bartending was actually having a negative impact on my desire to start and keep my side business going. So I said, I'm going to change my attitude here. If I show up real happy and passionate and bartending, that's going to bleed over

into my coaching business and everything else I want. So I always tell people, don't look outside of yourself for passion. Bring the passion to everything that you do. And when you do that, not only do you get better ideas, but your days are actually a lot more pleasant. And you do have more energy because there's not resistance going like, oh, I wish I wasn't here. I wish I was doing something else. Yeah, I love that. And then if you do have that, do you think that it becomes harder to find the motivation to leave that job if you want to leave it? Well, no, it doesn't because a happy person and someone who's fulfilled and satisfied doing what they do, first of all, that energy is contagious. You'll likely either get a promotion. You'll see other opportunities. Maybe you'll make a lateral

move. Maybe you'll have something else that you want to start. But it's a lot easier when you're engaged in what you're doing to make some kind of move rather than like moping around the office all day I can't stand where I am or like not really performing at your highest level. So I think that just as a general life strategy, it's a smart way to go. When you stop looking outside of yourself or the things that are going to fulfill you and you actually bring that juice to every level of your day, things get a lot easier. You open up creative channels that wouldn't be open otherwise. I mean, think about it. How can you really create a life you love when you're miserable eight to ten hours a day thinking you should be somewhere else? Not possible. Your brain's not going to operate.

optimally. You're not going to think creatively. You're going to be exhausted. You're going to reach for that bag of chips. You're going to want to sit Netflix and chill every single night. Do you know what? It's a downward spiral. So how do you concretely like get out of that? Because I feel like I've been in those places in my life and I would like to be passionate and I would like to like bring it from within and I'd like to show up at work. You can. I would like start maybe the first hour of the day that way. And then I would just, you know, be beaten up from the outside. And how do you actually do that? Well, I think then there's a couple things. You have to get that you're in control of your experience of life, not everyone else. It's like shifting your position from going like, okay, so you had a disappointment or someone said something to you. Maybe that was unkind or who knows what happened that. You're like, oh, I feel a little back on my heels. So what would you do? You can either call a friend. You can go for a walk around the block. You can vent for five minutes and go, okay, I'm going to let that go. I'm done now. Now I'm going to bring me back to the table. Let's do this. And I know it might sound trite. or cheesy, but it's not. It's like no one is going to be responsible for your experience of

life but you. So it's like a training. Think about it almost like, it's like meditation. Do you meditate? So you know that, you know, you just kind of sometimes have to be there and sit there and the thoughts may come and you're like, great, that one, great. Now I'm back. And if you have your practice for 20 minutes, you hang out for 20 minutes and you start building that stamina. I think it's the same way with being engaged and passionate. What's the alternative to be like miserable? Right. Yeah, no, yeah, it's so interesting because I think I'm, I'm very much a person if I like don't like where I'm living, I'm like, I need to move. Like I rely on changing my outside experience. Yep. To change my inside experience very much. I think it's a dance because I think sometimes that is true. Like, for example, I know that someone above us in our apartment, we haven't had anyone living up there and so long and now we're hearing all these footsteps. Oh my God, that's driving crazy. Right. Yeah, no. But so this might be an instance where we will say, you know what? It is time to. change our external circumstances. But in the meantime, we're not going to let that dominate us. How do you know when it's time to change, like, how do you know when it's time to like make a big move

or change your job or something like that? I think that you have to, a lot of people don't know that they really have an internal compass that's always trying to guide them on the next best step on their path. I think we're not taught a lot about intuition. It's not something that we talk about. And so I think people have to trust their own inner guidance rather than any kind of external measurement. So if you keep having this voice inside, I know it was one of the things that guided me on, you know, my career path was like when I was on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, externally, it looks like I was winning. Great career path ahead. Awesome opportunity. I could not silence the voice in my head that said, this isn't it, Marie.

This is not what you're supposed to be doing. And that voice just over the weeks and months was getting louder and louder until it was almost deafening. So one day I got sick on the floor. I was literally having almost a little mini panic attack. I felt nauseous. I was like dizzy. And it was like my body revolting going like, you have got to make a change. And I think anyone listening now and you maybe you've had this experience yourself

where that internal voice starts speaking so loud. You're like, I got to get out of here. I got to do something. I also have an exercise in the book that I loved, which was differentiating between fear and intuition. And I'm, anxiety is like my number one thing I suffer from. It's a really serious issue in my life. Yes. And I always, like people say trust your intuition, I'm like, if I trust my intuition, I'd never get on a plane.

You know what I mean? Can you just talk about that exercise a little bit? Absolutely. It's one of the most crucial things I think we can train ourselves in because when you're looking at an opportunity to say yes to a new job, to say yes to a new relationship, to make some kind of life change. Naturally, it's going to evoke some sensation and likely some fear. Like, oh, am I doing the right thing? Is this going to work out the way I want it to? And people often ask me, how do I tell the difference between normal fear that I just need to move through? Because it means growth and my intuition raising a red flag going, no, that's a bad idea. Don't do it. And so there's a simple test that anyone listening right now can do.

And it involves just paying really close attention to your own internal signals. And it goes like this. Think about the opportunity that you're considering right now. And I would invite everyone to close their eyes and just sit comfortably in a chair or stand up wherever you can just feel grounded and in touch with what's happening on the inside of you, not necessarily your thoughts, but internally physically, your physical sensations. And ask yourself this question, does the idea of saying yes to this opportunity instantly make you feel expansive or contracted? So let's dial through what expansive means. In the nanosecond after you ask yourself that question, expansive might feel like your chest lifting up or just the little bit of excitement or maybe your shoulders drop down or your body moves forward in space. There's some type of, to use a Marie Condo term, like sparking joy, right?

Just even on the subtlest level, something feels light about it. On the flip side, contracted feels almost like a heaviness in your belly or your shoulders hunch forward or you just start to move back in space and maybe your head. head shakes, no, or you feel this sense of dread or anxiety. You can't really explain it. This test often comes in the most handy when something looks good on paper. And logically, reasonably, you're like, I should want to say yes to this. I should want to do this. But your body is like, that's your intuition, in my opinion, telling you to hold back. So again, fear versus intuition. If you feel expansive, even if it's a little scary, I'd say go for it. That's your internal guidance system telling you this is an opportunity for growth that may not work out perfectly, but there's some greater opportunity here and you should move ahead.

But if your body starts to pull back and say, no, you've got to trust that. And I would invite you to just play with that. The differences are subtle, but they're in there. Yeah, I actually like, it's the thing that got me flying again, honestly, was I was like I could not fly and live. a smaller life or I could fly and live this like big life and be scared every time I do it. And so I fly like three times a month now. But I, you know, that's amazing. But I'm scared every single time. Like, you know, people always message me and they're like, how do you fly? How do you fly? How do you fly? And I'm like, I'm literally think I'm going to die. I don't make plans for after my flight usually because I'm going to

die. But I would rather have that expansive life. Yes. Yes. Which I think is, yeah, interesting. Going back to like the outside experiences versus the inside, I want to talk about mine. Yes. I love talking about money. I love talking about money too. So you said you've been pretty open about the fact that you always wanted to make a lot of money. Yes. And then you've also said that you've obviously met a lot of incredible people who have a ton of money and that isn't necessarily the thing that makes them happy. Yes. So where do you think I really struggle with money? Because I think that people are like after what, $70,000 a year, it doesn't make, like after you can take care of your basic needs. It doesn't necessarily make you happier. But then I see the things that money can provide. It can provide things like going to your B school. So you can burst through the life of your dreams. It can provide things like therapy. It can provide a sense of comfort and control of your circumstance. If you have people walking in the apartment over you, you can move. Correct. Stuff like that. But then if you spend all your time pursuing money, that has its own detrimental

factors. So I would love to hear about your relationship with money and how you navigate that. Yeah. So I want to contextualize my desire to make a lot. So when I was little, my parents, My parents got divorced. I think I was around eight years old. And the day that my parents signed the divorce papers, I remember being in the kitchen with my mom. And she was talking to her mom, who was in Florida at the time, and she was like crying her eyes out. She had lost like 20 pounds. Her eyes were bloodshot. I'd never seen my mom in such distress. And so she was saying to her mom, she was like, I have nothing. I have nothing. I can't believe I was this stupid. So I'm watching my mom have this episode. She hangs up the phone. She bends down to my level. puts her hands on both my shoulders and like shakes me, not hard, but it was an intense moment. And she's like, re, which she calls me. You know, don't be stupid like I am. Look at me right now. Don't ever let a man control your money. Don't ever let a man control your life. I need you to grow up. I need you to be independent. Make your own money. Make your own way. Do not make the same mistakes I did. By the way, my dad's like an amazing human. My parents are together. Their fights were never about like,

thank goodness, infidelity or drug use or anything like that. It was just money. My mom feeling like She never had control of it and not feeling that there was enough of it around the house. So I made myself a promise in that moment that someday I would earn enough money that it would never take love away again. Because that's the equation that I set up that not having enough money equaled pain. Not having enough money meant my parents got divorced and I saw my mom crying. I didn't know where my dad, you know what I mean? It was just all this bad stuff. So my promise to myself was that when I was an adult, I would make so much.

that I would take care of people, so that wouldn't be the issue. So that was where the desire came from. Now, when it comes to as an adult, you know, when I was in my early 20s, like many of us, I found myself in tens of thousand dollars of debt after college. You know, you just make some kind of not good judgment calls and what you're doing with your credit cards, which was me. And so I had to extricate myself from that and educate myself on like how this whole game works. And I really made true to the promise I made eight-year-old Marie that I was going to have so much that I just didn't want money to be a stress in my life. And it became a focus. And I don't love money over people. I don't love money over my values. But I saw very clearly different life paths. I saw people that

were struggling with money. I know how I struggled with money. And I didn't want to be one of them. So I spent years really remaking my ideas about scarcity, my own self-worth, what I could achieve and create and also what I could give. You know, there's a lot of problems in this world. And as a white woman born in the United States, I'm very well aware that I've won what Warren Buffett calls the ovarian lottery, meaning by, you know, no effort of my own. I was born to a family that gave me a roof over my head, education, running water, electricity. And you're able to move back in with them when you had career shifts. Absolutely. Yeah. And not a lot of people have that. So for me, part of the drive to make more money was also to help solve some of the big issues that we have

today in my own tiny way. You'd be able to contribute back. And so when it comes to money, I don't know, you know, feel free to dive in with another question, but I just think it is such an important topic and we get such conflicting messages around it. Like we all kind of want more, but we shouldn't want more. You know what I mean? It makes us bad or it makes us greedy. And I think, especially for women. We have so many mixed messages on that one. And it was really important for me to model for other women that, no, it's okay to want to be rich. And it's okay to want to make great money. And you can do whatever you want with it. But most women I meet, they actually want to take care of other people, their families and their communities. Do you feel like your life got substantially better when you

started having enough money? Absolutely. Yeah. 100% because so much stress went away. Yeah. Do you know, But like the daily stress, like I remember the days of opening up my checkbook and feeling so much nausea and fear around not being able to know like, oh, God, is there going to be enough this month for this month's rent? Or going like, I don't know if I can get this business off the ground or I have to take on like five more shifts this week just to make everything work and come together. And I remember that feeling. And I also remember the feeling of when I started to climb out of that and started to have a little

cushion and to be able to pay my employees well. You know, I took my entire team on a vacation to Mexico. We didn't have one work meeting. We like literally went away to bond for like four days and eat guacamole and drink corona. But that's the kind of thing you can do. That's the kind of work environment you can create in the kind of culture. And we do a lot of philanthropic work. And it's like to be able to use money as this force for good is awesome. And I want more people to experience that. And part of the first step is to not demonize it. But what about so the thing they also say about money is that once you, we're so resilient as humans that we can adjust up to our circumstances so quickly. So if you like buy the nice house, it's really, you immediately adapt to it, which is why we always want more money and more money and more money. So how do you stop that dialogue with yourself, especially because, you know, you're hanging out with people like Oprah, who has all the money in the world. Are you ever like, oh man, I should go bust my balls even more and get my PJ? Yeah. No, I, so as an individual, I'm not super driven by highly

materialistic things. I like experiences. Like, that's what really makes me happy. So I like to be able to travel places with friends or create, like, you know, I brought a whole bunch of friends on like a roller skating kind of night. Again, these are not hugely expensive things, but they're fun to be able to just go, no, we're going to do that. We're going to go have a great dinner. So I personally am not driven by enormous mansions or cars. Like, I give no shits. I legitimately give no shits. I like experiences and I like taking care of people. So I don't, I'm just not built to compare myself to the Joneses and going, oh, I shouldn't want that too. So do you feel like you have enough money then? Like, do you feel sort of successful in that way at this point in your life? I do feel successful.

And I always like creating more because my ideas get bigger and the difference we want to make gets bigger. And I love being able to pay people well and bonus them and take care of them. And like, this whole thing that we've just done with the book. It was an enormous investment for our And part of bringing this dream to life was the fact that I could help make that happen. I did not have to rely on other people giving me permission to make my dreams come to life. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally makes sense. So in that sense, I'm like, I will never say no to more honest money.

I'm not the kind of person that goes, oh, no, no, no, that's enough because I see the good that can be done with it. And again, it's not about me having more shoes. It's like, how can we create more change in the world? How can we create more opportunities for people? how can we get people more jobs or open up their ideas to who they can be. So I see it as just a force for good. Yeah, I love that.

Okay, I mentioned Oprah, and I just have to know, how did she like, I know she loves you and you've been on Super Soul and stuff like that? How did she, do you know she found you in the first place? I don't. I know that her producers reached out. They were kind of looking amongst some different folks and they were looking to do a show with Thought Leaders for the next generation. And I started getting.

along really well with her team. They're amazing. Obviously, she has an incredible talented team around her. Shocker. Yeah, shocker. She's, and I obviously have loved her my entire life. I've watched her since I was a little girl. So she continues to be one of my inspirations. I just, I adore her. Can we get like a nugget of what she's like in real life? She is even better in real life. Like, her hugs are amazing. She's so smart. She's so down to earth. She's like during a super soul session. Afterwards, there was like a little kind of rat party dinner to thank everyone who contributed. And out from the kitchen come these, like, amazing waiters and everyone had these like shots of tequila. And like just standing around doing like a shot at tequila with Oprah. It's like, do you know what I mean? You're like,

really? Is this for real? And I saw Eckhart Toll who's, you know, another, like, he's amazing. He would stand out across the room. Of course. And he's incredible. And I remember just watching him kind of like, you know, saunter up to the bar and have a wife. I'm like, I'm watching. her tall have a glass of white wine and I'm doing a tequila shot with Oprah. I'm like life is good at this moment. That's incredible. Just so sweet, so kind, real people. Oh my gosh. I am so excited to share today. Oh my gosh. I am so excited to share today's sponsor with you. If you follow me on Instagram, you know I am absolutely addicted to skinny dipped almonds. I remember the first time I tried them years ago when I had a full-time editorial job. I looked at the package and I was like, eh, they're chocolate-covered

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Again, that's a whopping 20% off with the code healthier together on skinny-dipped.com. I cannot wait for you to try these. I truly have a problem, and I am so looking forward to you having a problem with me. All right, let's get back to the show. All right, so I have one more kind of serious question than I have a few questions from my audience that they wanted to ask you. You have this great exercise for fears in the book. which is like you sort of follow it down the what would happen, what would happen, what would happen, and then how would you deal with it, which I love as an exercise in general.

But you mentioned sort of in a footnote that the two biggest fears people have are not being loved and not being enough. Yes. And I was struggling to see how following those down those fears specifically, because I suffer from both of those very much. Yeah, all of us do. How would you follow that down and then combat those thoughts mentally? Yeah. So I think those are maybe two different things. So let's talk about the exercise. It's called Fear Taming 101. And what I find that for most of us, we get so trapped by our fears because they remain amorphous in our heads. They're like these boogeyman kind of hanging out in the back of our consciousness. And when we shine a light on them and we get very clear and specific and we actually write them down and bring them to the light of day, we see, we're like, oh, that's really what I'm afraid of? And you keep drilling like, well, what's the word?

thing that could happen if that happens. Okay, what's the worst thing that could happen? If that happens and you drill down to your worst, worst case scenarios, most of us see that were like, well, A, that's probably not going to happen because I could mitigate against it getting that bad. And B, if the worst of the worst of the worst did happen, there are actually concrete steps I could take to lift myself back up. There are practical things I could do to get back on my feet. So that's the value of doing the exercise and specifically not doing it just in your head, but writing it down on paper. I always find that there's something magical that happens when you don't have it just in your head and you see it on the page, self-distancing. It gives you a little bit of space to observe and then be more objective about how you'd handle it.

And also like takes the burden out of your head. Yes. Like you're not carrying that anymore. And it becomes then this thing that you can also bring other people in on. Like, oh, here is my scenario. How would you handle this? You could talk to someone about it and actually show them that piece of paper. They're like, well, you know, I've actually been there.

Or I know someone who went on that path and here's how they got back up. And all of a sudden, again, it becomes a lot less big in your mind. And it's something tangible and achievable and figure outable on paper. In terms of not being good enough and not being loved, I think that those are two core fears that all of us have, that it's almost like a life practice to continue to recognize that you, Our love. Like it's not about, I know we're kind of getting off into a little bit of a spiritual plane here. My belief is that every single one of us at our core, that's who we are.

We are loved. So it's not possible that you are not going to be loved because that's what you are. Does that make sense? It's almost like one of those things about remembering the value of being present or remembering that we're all on the train heading to the same destination, which is death. You don't think about that every day. but we're all going to be dead in less than 100 years. And when you remember that, it almost snaps you back into reality in this beautiful way going like,

oh, the clock is ticking. Like, I need to live my life now while we're still around. But how does that work if somebody's like sitting around and feeling really, like, lonely and they haven't met their, you know, best girlfriends or their partner? And they're like, maybe I am love on the inside, but I'm lonely on the outside. Sure. Well, I think loneliness is on the rise. That's what we know from statistics, right?

then it becomes a really practical thing. It's like, oh, who have I reached out to to connect with? Right? Have I reached out to that friend that I used to really love from college and not say, hey, what are you doing? I'm feeling so lonely. How are you? How's your kid doing?

I saw on Instagram that you're pregnant again or do you have a new job? Tell me about that. Like connecting with people by going toward focusing on them. Exactly. And usually when we do that, when you put the attention. on someone else for them. Like, oh, if I'm feeling lonely and disconnected, why don't I actually reach out and connect with someone to make them feel loved? And you actually gain that experience when you do it. It's a wild thing. Do you think that works with being enough as well? A hundred percent.

You make somebody else feel like they're enough. Absolutely. So here's a game I always play with myself. No two things can occupy the same space at the same time. It's a little game. In any given moment, I can either be focused on myself like, oh, poor Marie. No one likes me. I have no one to hang out with right now or I'm not good enough or I didn't do a good enough job last night or whatever. We all have these conversations. I have them too. So in that moment, I'm completely consumed with myself. I have my light shining in on me and usually I feel like shit, right? Or I could switch that whole game and I can go, oh, my director of operations, Tana. Tanna, that report you sent in last week, the detail on that was amazing. Thank you so much for being so

dedicated here. Okay, let me go over to my friend Chris. Chris, I know you're in the middle of a big launch. I just wanted to let you know. Remember when you told me about that green juice recipe, you know, years ago, that really changed my life. Keep going because you're fucking awesome. Like, I can literally go down the list and do these tiny micro actions that have me connect with other people all in my control, make them feel good enough. And all of a sudden, I'm like, I have no attention on myself. I'm feeling great. Again, this stuff is not rocket science, but we're not taught it. And it's these little games we can play moment to moment to keep shifting the attention. You know this. I mean, even in our conversation right now, when you have no attention

on yourself, you feel awesome. Yeah. It's my favorite part of my week is my podcast interview, probably because of that. And because you're fully present. Like, our phones are both off. We're actually having an engaged conversation. And we're connected. Yeah. But we get the opportunity to do that. I mean, you can even do that on text. You don't even have to have someone receive it necessarily. Like, I've done this game with myself sometimes where if I was feeling a little bit alone or there's no one around, Josh is out of town. other friends are busy. I'm like, oh, look through my phone and like, who could I send a little love bomb to? Not even, you know what I mean? Not wanting to receive anything back. Not like, hey,

are you around? Do you want to go? But like, hey, I was thinking about you, blah, blah, blah, just wanted you to know, you're amazing or I love you or I hope I'll see you at some point soon. People that even live in other cities or countries. Do you know what I mean? There's no chance. But all of us can do these simple things. And I think that down to those two fears, the fear of not being good enough than the fear of not being loved to actively engage in that which we think we need actually gives it to ourselves. I love that. All right.

So I have some questions from listeners. I'm going to start with a fun one, which is you have amazing hair. Yes. What do you do to care for it? Okay. So just further, because I know they'll be like, is that all her real hair? It is, I am Italian. It's just as good in real life.

It's spectacular. Thank you. But I will have everyone know for anyone who, you know, grows up with that kind of ethnicity. You know, I had a unibrow as a kid. Do you know what I mean? I had all the hairy legs and the hairy arms. I honestly, my hair guy, Greg, he laughs at me. He's like, you use the shittiest shampoo ever.

Yeah, I'm like. You're friends with Chris Carr. I figured you'd be all like non-toxic everything. I'm just, I, those are the things. See, here's the places where I still have stuff to figure out. All right. Well, if you need a non-toxic shampoo recommendations hit me out. Yes, excellent.

I love it. So you just wash it. I just wash it. And if I'm not like, do. something like today where I was on the Today Show or whatever, it's up in a bun, it's dirty, it's messy, it looks better like five days in. All right. So here, one listener basically said that they have a problem asking people for help.

So asking for introductions or testimonials, not just strangers, but also close friends. So how can you overcome that type of hurdle? Okay. So there's a couple of different ways you could tackle that. One would be to practice asking for things in like, non-high-stake places. So would you get me that coffee over there? Would you open the door for me? I'm having a little bit of trouble with my whatever, whatever. Can I get a hand with this? That just practice of getting into the mode of asking for help is one way to start to get into it.

The other way, depending on who this person is, I don't know what their style is, but you might just want to tackle it and give yourself a goal. Like, I'm going to ask five people over the next 10 minutes for something that scares the shit out of me. Like I'm going to send that email. I'm going to send that text. I'm going to pick up the phone. Again, it just depends on someone's style of which way is going to kind of get them into momentum. That's what I'm always looking for as a coach is like, how can I get someone into movement and get them in a playful state so that they'll keep going? So I would say if you like the idea of doing like small asks to kind of warm up to bigger ones, go with option number one.

Or for someone's like, no, I just need to do this. Like make your list of maybe like three people that you're scared shit list to ask something of them for. set a time limit like five or ten minutes. And then if you have a friend that could be your accountability partner, like, okay, in the next 10 minutes, I'm going to make these calls and I'm going to call you when it's done and we're going to celebrate our asses off. You know, that could be option number two. So I'm great at it in like my normal life, I would say. Like if I ask my husband for coffee, he'd be like, get your own coffee because I ask them for so much other stuff.

But where I struggle with it is like in mentor relationships because I'm always like, why would this person who is at my level of my career, the people I'm asking to mentor me are like, incredibly busy and successful. And I'm like, why would they take their time to mentor me? Even though I'm happy to give that time for other people, how would you deal with that? Do you think that mentoring is something you can still like ask for? Absolutely. And I think this. I think if you don't ASK, you don't GET. That's something we practice in our company all the time. We're like, you know, even when I have fear, especially having a new book out, asking people for help is not my place of strength. It's not something I do often. I like to be in the position of helping other people. That's a comfortable place for me. And actually, my best friend, Chris, she gave me a little pinky ring.

And she was like, this is your asking ring. I need to do, you know what I mean? I need you to just like, like a reminder. Exactly. And so I think that for all of us, it's like recognizing that there's discomfort there, that's cool. But then we just have to step into it. It's like everything that we need to grow, we probably are not good at right now. So you need to be really comfortable being uncomfortable. You have to like, you know, and I know it sounds pretty cliched, but all the good stuff is outside of what we already know, if we're going to grow as a human being. So if somebody, like, asked you to be their mentor, would you be like, okay, cool sometimes? Or would you be like, I'm too busy.

Why are you asking you? No, I would not. Well, first of all, I would never be. In a nice way. Yeah. No, I would try not to be an asshole. Absolutely. But if I don't have the time, I would say, hey, I don't have the time to devote to you, but tell

me what a specific question is. And then I can answer that question. And tell me what zone you're looking to learn in because I have a lot of resources up here and I can direct you, whether it's to a conference or to a program, I can direct you to something that can help get you on that path. I think this specific question is such good advice to you because people message me all the time like, I want to be a writer and I'm like, okay. Right. Like what's your, you know, what's your question? And I think that if they gave me a specific question, I could definitely answer it almost every time. Yeah. All right. What do you

say to yourself when you're going through a hard time? Everything is figure outable. I'm not shitting you. And that's not just because it's in the book. Every time I find myself stressed out or overwhelmed, like there was a couple of weeks ago where my grandmother, she's 93, she had just taken a fall, broke both in her hips. And like the downward spiral started to happen that happens for many older folks. She's out of state for a myriad of reasons. No one could handle helping her transition into assisted living except for me. And it came at the exact time that I literally, because of the book launch, there was so many preset things. things that I could not change. And to like describe the level of like sadness and stress and

overwhelm that I was feeling over a particular number of days where it just felt like I was like, I was like, how am I going to do this? I need to take care of this beautiful woman. I also need to honor my responsibilities to so many people that are going out for me. Do you know what I mean? And I used that phrase. I was like, okay, I need to breathe. Like this is absolutely figure out. This is why I actually use the phrase all the time. And I stepped back. and I started to talk to different people and made a plan. I traveled down to Florida on a weekend. I thought I was going to rest.

Everything was fine. But that's what I say to myself. And that's kind of my ground zero that gets me in a place of calm and gets me in a place of clarity. So I can start making a game plan. What advice do you have for implementing a new habit? I think if you can make it as fun as possible and as playful as possible. So for example, you know, let's say you want to. to start working out again.

For me, it's like, how can I surround myself with great music? Do I need a cute new pair of sneakers or something that's going to make it enjoyable for me to like, yes, I'm feeling good. Do I need to set myself up in a class? I think that to make it playful and joyful for you and to also track your progress, I find it very satisfying. I don't know if anyone listening is like me, but I like checking things off and seeing that little habit start to build.

Like a little gold star? Absolutely. All right. I have a few questions. I like to ask everybody, and I'm really curious about your answers to these. Have you ever been anywhere in the world where you're like these people really got it right in terms of health or happiness? And if so, where was it? Okay. This might sound like it's cheating, but Italy. Shout out to the motherland. Shout out. And I will tell you why. Specifically, Sicily, spending time down in the south and Sicily. Is your family from Sicily? My family is from southern Italy and also northern Italy as well. but around Calabria. And I was on this little island called Selena a few years ago. And it was this really rocky beach. It was set in a cliff.

And it was like heaven. And one of the things that I loved was seeing all of these different. And it was mostly women that I noticed probably into their 90s in bikinis, like feeling on themselves, loving on themselves. Uplice often too. With like gorgeous jewelry, but the vibrancy and the aliveness and the sensuality in just being a human being that was just on this gorgeous beach with like no worries about anything. You know, and this is not the model of hell. Some of them we're smoking a cigarette. We're not going to go for that one.

But my point is their bodies moved with such grace and just eating this beautiful, gorgeous food, like simple, simple food. That I felt so in my element and I felt more me than I've ever felt. I didn't feel any attention on like wondering like if I have cellulite. Of course I do. But none of that. It just all fell away. And it was just the beauty of being human. So I think I think Italians, a lot of Italians get it right.

Are you one of the people who's like excited about aging? Are you, what are your thoughts on getting? Here's my experience so far that it keeps getting better. And like I tell friends that are younger than me, like they're like, oh my God, I'm turning 30. I'm like, shut the fuck up. It's awesome. Like, this is my own experience. I feel more beautiful than I've ever been.

I feel stronger than I've ever been. I love my body and myself more than I've ever loved myself. I feel wiser. I feel more confident. I'm like, man, if we can just keep this going. Like, this is good. So am I excited about aging? You know, when I was just down with my grandmother, that was challenging.

that was challenging to see her so frail. But, you know, we're all in the same train heading to the same destination. So my, yeah, it's a truth. It's we're all in the same. It is. It's just a thing. We're going to be powder. And that's fine. So my goal is to like enjoy this ride as much as humanly possible and take care of this vessel as much as I can. Yeah. What's one purchase you've made that's made you healthier or happier? One purchase I've made. Oh, so I am really into and I, this is not, a plug because it's not athletic greens. Oh yeah, yeah. I use them because especially during this last period, sometimes I am not eating. Sometimes I forget to eat and that just happens. And my team's always like, girl, you just dropped to size like what's, I'm like, I'm not intending to do this. This is just my brain is on this

thing and doing whatever we're doing. Athletic greens has been a great resource for me because at least I feel like, I'm like, okay, in the morning I have that and I'm getting a baseline of nutrients so that no matter what happens during the day. At least I feel like I'm safeguarding. Yeah, I love them too. I travel with them. I need to get them to sponsor me because I use them all the time. Okay, what does success look like to you and do you feel like you've achieved it? I do feel successful as a human and here's why. This is a riff off of Maya Angelou. So success is liking who you are, what you do and how you do it. And in that respect, I am really, really satisfied. I feel really proud of the work that we do. I feel really excited. I feel really by my team. I love our audience, the people that I get to connect with through our show and through

the book and when I get to meet them and I hear their stories and like who they are, nothing gets me more excited than seeing other people win. So in that regard, I feel very successful. All right. And last one. What's one big mistake you've made and one thing you really got right? And do the mistake first. You can bring us home on like a good note. Yeah. So I think a mistake I made, this is a business thing that I just got ambitious years ago. This is, probably like maybe over a decade ago, but I wanted to launch this big membership site. It was custom and I didn't have a lot of resources then. I certainly didn't have a support team. And I trusted that someone could do the job and I invested like four or five thousand dollars,

which by the way is still a lot of money. But at that point in the business, it was enormous. And I had a whole bunch of people sign up. Hundreds of people said yes to do this thing. And then we tried to load them into the private membership site and it crashed. Like I'm, I'm talking hot mess, like everything like meltdown and customer experience is a really important thing in my heart and soul. So to have all of these people that were like so hopeful and then had this bad experience, we took care of them. We got them over to a hosted platform.

But it was just such a mistake. And the lesson I learned at that point is, you know, I am not a technically oriented person and to invest that much money in something I did not understand and didn't have the support team to help bridge that gap, you know, is something I would never do. Now, again, it's at a much different level, but that was a big burn and a big waste of money. And I just felt, I felt horrible. Yeah. So that was one thing. And then what was the second bit? What's one thing you really got right? One thing I really got right. You know, I'm actually going to say what we did last night. I'm going to say we did this incredible event at the Hammerstein Ballroom. And it's something that

had never been created before. You know, I mentioned before. It's like a Beyonce concert and a TED Talk had a baby and then through a block party where there was extraordinary choreography. There was media. There was multimedia. There was me talking and we weave together a show for like 2,000 people that my producers have produced for like Jennifer Lopez and Kanye and like a bunch of other people. And so I had these crews that have done some of the biggest shows on the planet. And they're like, Marie, this really came together. And our audience was really happy.

So that's something I got right. So I've just come off my own book tour and it's like 150 people events, not 2,000 people events. But it's really, I love it. It's such a high. It's the best feeling in the world. And then like I'll come home and be not in that. And I have a really hard time adjusting to that. There's a sadness to it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And also I'm really afraid of like getting my ego involved in being like, you need a hundred people chanting your name to feel good about yourself. So how do you deal with that? Well, I think that it's important for any of us to write. recognize that when we're collaborating with other people and when there's those moments of connection, I think that's one of the things we're missing in our society right now. That's why a lot of people feel so lonely is we're spending so much time on our own. We don't have a lot of real rooted in-person

community. So when you have that and you have it over like six weeks or eight weeks or whatever it is and then you're kind of back in your normal life, it does feel a little deflating and it does feel a little lonely. For me, I try and remember, because we'll have launches, we'll have these experiences, and then there's these peaks and lulls. And I always try to remember, okay, we just had a big push, and I think about it like a sprint, and then I need to rest and recharge. So for me, I just try and understand, like, this is the game that we're playing. And so I expect to have that little bit of sadness and to feel that little bit of disconnection, and then to set up kind of the next thing where I could have that connection time again. And if you didn't

feel like you were ever going to sell out a 2,000-person event again? Would your ego be okay with that? I mean, it's hard to answer in the abstract. I try really hard to just stay focused on the work. Like my team laughs me. I was like, hey, you guys, do think we're going to sell out? And I was like, do you think we're going to have all the tickets sold by September? And they were laughing at me. And I was like, why are you laughing? And they're like, Marie, it's going to sell it in like a week or two. I'm like, shut up. I'm like, no, it's not. And I'm back like working on. copy or doing whatever I'm doing. And then when we sold out, I was like, oh, are you serious? Like, it happened that fast. So I kind of don't feel like I have a good grasp on that stuff. And I feel

like personally, I'm happiest when I just stay focused on the quality of the work, if that makes any kind of sense. So like with this book, you're not like near time's bestseller list near time's bestseller list. That would be a blessing. And I would love it to hit the best seller list because it would help the idea live longer. And I told my friend, my friend was like, why are you writing a book? Like your business is going great. Like this is a big project. Why are you taking this on? My friend Toby, you actually... And it's also like not where you're going to make the bulk of your money. Of course. Yeah. Nobody writes a book. As you know, right? You are not going to get rich off of writing a book unless you're like Stephen King or J.K. Rowling, which God bless them. We are very, very happy for them. But my friend asked me,

he's like, why are you doing this? This is a really big commitment. And I told him, I said, Toby, if I were to get hit by a bus tomorrow, this is the one idea that I would want to leave behind. Like, I would feel so good if I could just communicate this effectively so that other people, people could have it and use it the way that I've been able to use it and how it's helped me. So in that respect, like, I want this to do as best as it can, not because I'm like, oh, my God, I must be a New York Times bestseller because I've seen so many friends, quite honestly, who've written brilliant books, who've sold a ton of them who didn't make it on the list. And that list is a very, it's a precarious thing.

You can't. And it's not based on show. It's like amazing if it happens. Again, I praise be. That would be awesome. If it doesn't, I'm not going to cry in the corner. Like, I'm going to keep doing my work, you know, and keep doing what I can to make a difference while I'm still on the planet before I hit my powder point and I'm dust.

I love that. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. Oh, thank you for having me on. It's been a pleasure. Isn't she just amazing? I feel like she just has a good answer for literally every single question that I could ask her. And I was so impressed by her and her energy and just the passion that she has for changing the world. It really, really inspired me.

And I hope it inspired you too. I'll have links to everything that she talked about in the show notes for this episode, like the book she mentioned and the episodes of her TV show and all of that. So definitely check that out in the show notes. And if you like this episode, please leave a review on iTunes. If you remember, I'm going to do those little care packages as a little thank you note of appreciation for people who do leave their reviews. So if you want to enter to get one of those, just screenshot your review, post on

Instagram and tag at Liz Moody. I really appreciate every single review. I appreciate every minute that you guys spend listening to this. And I'm so excited about getting to give something back a little bit and send you these little care packages. So I can't wait for that. And thank you guys for listening. I can't wait to see you on my next episode of the Healthier Together podcast. Have a great one.

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