The Liz Moody Podcast - My Best Friend Is A Mom. I'm Not. Here's How We Navigate Our Friendship

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Having a close friend who's in a different stage of life than you can be challenging, but so worth it. Today, my best friend Leigh, who’s a mom of two, and I (childfree) discuss our friendship + we answer your most difficult “we’re in different life phases” questions you submitted. The ones that feel hard to bring up to either your single friend or mom friend who might not understand your side.  🎧 What you’ll learn: • The reason friendships get harder in your 30s and ideas to fix it • The "single friend always shows up, never gets shown up for" cycle • What new parents actually want from their friends • The counterintuitive text that could save a friendship from drifting apart Check out the previous episodes in this new series:  “The 5 Friend Theory: Uncover The Type You're Missing & Unlock Your Dream Friendships” • Listen on Apple • Listen/Watch on Spotify • Watch on YouTube “Asking My Husband Questions Women Are Too Scared to Ask” • Listen on Apple • Listen/Watch on Spotify • Watch on YouTube "I Hate Catch Up Calls!" "I Feel Abandoned!": Your Biggest Long Distance Friendship Problems, Solved • Listen on Apple • Listen/Watch on Spotify • Watch on YouTube For more from Leigh Weingus: • Substack, The Aesthetic Edit: https://theaestheticeditnewsletter.substack.com/ • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leighweingus  Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order Liz’s book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  Connect with Liz on Instagram @lizmoody or online at www.lizmoody.com. Subscribe to the substack by visiting https://lizmoody.substack.com/welcome.Buy our cute sweatshirts, conversation cards, and more at https://shop.lizmoody.com/. Use our discount codes from our  highly vetted and tested brand partners by visiting https://www.lizmoody.com/codes.  To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. This episode is brought to you completely free thanks to the following podcast sponsors: • AG1: visit DrinkAG1.com/LizMoody and, for a limited time, get 20% off on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro.  • Masterclass: head to MasterClass.com/LizMoody for an additional 15% off. • Our Place: check out FromOurPlace.com/LizMoody and use code LIZMOODY for 10% off sitewide. • PaleoValley: head to PaleoValley.com/LizMoody or use code LizMoody at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. The Liz Moody Podcast Episode 459. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on the Liz Moody podcast, my friend Lee and I are answering your most taboo, hard to talk about questions about friendship and different life phases. These are all real questions that you guys sent in, and this is part of my new series where I ask my real life relationships to come weigh in on your biggest struggles with that person in your life. So like, I'm going to have my mother-in-law come and talk through your trickiest or most taboo mother-in-law issues. Or Zach and I did an episode about your trickiest relationship struggles. Welcome to the Liz Moody podcast where we believe that there is always something that you can do to create a life that feels amazing. And we help you figure out how to find the lever to pull at any moment to actually do that.

Lee is a mom of two and lives in New York City and I am child free and live in California. We met when we're both editors in New York City in Brooklyn. Yes. I think that was 10 years ago. Yeah, 2016. Happy 10 year anniversary. Happy 10 year anniversary, Liz. Amazing.

So I'm just going to jump right into the. the questions, the first one that we got sent is, I'm the single child-free friend in my group constantly putting in effort, time, and money for my friend's big life events, throwing baby showers, taking PTO for weddings, joining meal trains. But when something big happens in my life, everyone's too busy to show up for me. I know we are all busy, but how do I get out of the rut of feeling hurt? This is really hard. Isn't it? And I don't have an answer. No. I mean, okay, so first of all, I do think the rut of feeling hurt is an interesting part of this to me. I think that hurt is really natural when you feel like you're giving a lot to relationships

and you don't necessarily feel like you're getting the same thing back. But I think a really tricky thing, and I struggle with this as the child-free person in a lot of my relationships, is that I want my friends to feel like they want to put in the effort for me, but I also recognize the very real constraints of their time. Yeah, you know what this reminds me of? You know, that Sex and City episode where Carrie Bradshaw goes to a baby shower and what does she do? She's asked to take her shoes off and then someone steals her shoes.

A woman's right to shoes. Yes, a woman's right to shoes. And then she sends her the bill, right? And she says, look, I have celebrated you so much over the years. So I'm curious, as a mom, you're more constrained in terms of your time. How do you think about showing up and celebrating your other friend's milestones, even if they're not like babies or weddings? First of all, I always, always try to show up.

I think that is so important. it's very rare that I'll say no. I always try to figure it out. I will say, I mean, I'm almost 40, and I'm not really getting invited to a lot of bridal showers anymore. Baby showers, definitely. I have noticed that my friends who have baby showers that are having baby showers at this age because they're a little bit older, they will say you can bring your kids, which I think is really sweet. I don't think it's necessary. What about your friends who are not having baby showers or bridal showers, though? Like you have friends who probably haven't just had these like major life milestones. Are you You consciously sitting there and being like, how can I show up for these people and the way that they have shown up for my two babies, my wedding over the years?

I will do that. I have a friend who lives in another city and she did recently get married. But until then, she was very single until she was 38 maybe. I left the kids, I think, twice just to go visit her. We lived in New York together. She moved to North Carolina and I was like, just show me your city. Show me around. I do my best, but it is, of course, a real struggle with the kids, especially now that I have two kids.

this means leaving my two kids with my husband for a weekend. And it's hard because you're not, there's no built-in structure for this, right? There's no celebrate me now for because I got this new job. I will say especially if you are a person who has had the bachelorette, the bridal shower, the wedding, the kids, if you get an invite to like your friend's birthday party. Yeah. Go. Go.

I do think that is your responsibility. Yes, absolutely. And I do everything I can to be at those things. And I really don't think that I've missed much. Like I've really made sure to show up when I can. I also do think that communicating what's important to you is important. We have decided societally that these are the things that are important. So in many ways, we're just all following a script when we celebrate these things.

But if we want to deviate from the script, we have to kind of tell people. Like, I got this article placed in this magazine. It's a really big deal to me. I am signing a lease on an apartment by myself. It's a really big deal to me. I think at a minimum giving your friends the information that they need to show up for you and show up for what's important to you, which means deciding for yourself that those things are important and that they are worth celebrating, which is hard in a society that tells us

like just celebrate these few things. I do think that's necessary. And then at least your friends have the information. If they choose not to action that information, that's valuable insight information that you have about the friendship. Yes. And I also think it's sometimes tricky to know. know how to tell a friend to show up for you because I think you might think about your friend

with kids like, oh, they're so busy. How silly is it that I'm asking them to celebrate my promotion, my magazine article placement, the fact that I just got a cat. It's really hard. One thing that I'll do a lot is I just send people flowers. Like if something exciting happens to them, if something hard happens to them, I'll just send flowers and say like, I'm thinking about you even if I can't be there. You've never done that for me. Maybe one day. You have to tell me how you want me to celebrate you, Liz. Maybe when your next book comes out. Okay.

I love that. Yeah. So I would say, first of all, figure out what are the big events to you. Second of all, communicate it to them and assume best intent and less proven otherwise. I also have one more thing. I have never received a text from a friend that has said, here is what I need from you as a friend that has made me unhappy. That is like the happiest text I have ever received.

If someone tells me, I wish that you had asked me more about this, which has happened to me. I've gotten a few of those texts. or I wish you had celebrated this when this happened. Like, thank you so much for giving me that information about how to celebrate you. Like, I don't think anyone should ever be afraid to send that text or make that phone call or send that voice note. I think that's just something that people should know. And the last thing that I'll add is we have an entire episode about the four types of friendship.

And I think it's so wonderful to maintain these friendships from our different phases of life. And I do think this person says I am the single child free friend in my group. I think finding single child free friends is also going to be really. important. These are what I call ERA's friends in that episode, which I can link for you guys. Having friends in your same life phase is going to be important regardless of what life phase are in. I would say put in some effort to make sure you also have friends in your life phase. Yeah, because that sounds really lonely being the only single friend. So I think that, yes, absolutely seek out friends that are in the same life phase as you. Okay. Next one. My friend is having her first baby and I'm unsure how to show up for her. I know nothing about babies yet and social media gives conflicting advice, give new mom space, but also support. I want to be a good friend. but I don't know how. Ooh, that's a good question. I think always show up over not showing up. I think the give them space is very overrated, and most people do not want that.

Most people feel really lonely and isolated, especially in postpartum, even in pregnancy. It's insane because I was 32, but I was like one of the first people I knew to have a baby. And I was really in my head about it. I was like, everyone's going to think I'm a loser, like I'm not going to be fun anymore. No one's going to want to hang out with me. even when I was pregnant, I kind of had that going on. Showing up, showing just that you're interested in their baby and their lives is amazing. And also know that they don't always want to talk about their baby.

They want to hear about your life as well. Do we have to be interested in their baby? What if we're like just not? No, you don't have to. You should say it's cute, though. Even if it's not. Yes. Okay.

Be like, oh my God, your baby's so cute. I can't believe you made this. But like the expectation isn't tell me about his or her sleeping schedule. Tell me about everything they're eating. I can only speak from the experience of myself and my friends that I know, but no, nobody cares. And they don't want, like, the fact that they get to see you, especially in that early time, they don't want to talk about their baby. Maybe they want to tell you their birth story and, like, leave space for that because that can be a very

traumatic or celebratory thing for people. So leave space for the birth story. But then they just want to hear about your life and they want to hear what's going on outside of their baby life. This is something that I struggle with sometimes even when, like, a friend gets engaged or they have a wedding coming up or they're pregnant or they're having a baby. It feels like the elephant in the room. So it feels like if you're not just talking about that thing, it almost feels like trite. Like I don't have that much to say about you getting engaged. I'm like, congratulations. That's so

amazing. And then I don't want to push about the wedding because maybe they're not planning that yet, whatever, all those things. But then I feel weird talking about something else because it feels like this huge thing that just happened to them. And a baby feels like that exponentially more. But just to flip the script, because you don't have kids, but you have been engaged and you have gotten married. Have you ever felt like, oh, people aren't asking me enough questions about my wedding or my engagement? Have you felt like that? I usually actually feel like I'm like so over talking about it. Yeah. I have certainly never been like, no one's asking me enough questions about my baby because I'm like, why, especially if you don't have kids, why would you be interested in this? I think the thing I'm

interested in is how this new life experience impacts my friend that I have built this relationship with. And I think that that is a much more interesting thing to talk about than how the baby is sleeping, how the baby is eating. You and I both do not like small talk. We like to be like, so what are your deepest, darkest feelings and thoughts? I can't imagine that you would ever ask me. Like, what's the baby eating? Maybe because you used to be a food writer or blogger.

But like, I just... No, I really want to know, like, did you love the baby right away? I remember one of the first questions you asked me was like, would you jump in front of a car for this baby? Like, would you give your life for this baby? And my baby was like four days old. And I was like, and I remember being like, I don't know her that well. So like I'm not sure.

Come back to me. But no, I mean, I appreciate those kinds of questions. That's how I am. I'm an open book. I've always been like that. And I don't like small talk. I always want to get to the core of everything. Any yes or noes for early days when your friends are coming around and trying to support you with a new baby.

So like, yes, meal train. Yes, Uber eats. No asking to hold the baby. like I see on social a lot, like, come clean my house instead of hold the baby. I want to hold the baby. Guesses or knows from you. I do remember with my older daughter telling a couple people, because you get this stream of visitors where people want to like, can I come by and see the baby today?

I'm a very direct person. I have a very direct communication style. And I remember telling a couple people like, if we could just hold off until next week or someone being like, do you want to go for a walk? And I'm just being like, I just don't have the bandwidth for that right now. And people understand when you say that. I wouldn't just drop by unannounced ever. Okay.

That would be really rough. I would love people to send me an Uber-Eats gift card. Maybe not send me the food because I want to pick. And the beautiful thing about meal delivery now is that you can just send a gift card and people can pick their own food. Showing up with a lasagna, yes or no? You have to call first. But like if you drop it on their porch, is homemade food good or would you rather pick? Totally.

I would love homemade food, especially if you're breastfeeding, you're so hungry at the beginning. And homemade food just hits different, I think. And if I come over, should I be trying to? to like do your dishes and help with? No, I wouldn't want that. Okay. I always hear that, right? Like, when someone's going through a hard time, you hear the advice of you shouldn't say,

how are you doing? What do you need? You should say, I am coming over on this day to do your laundry. People are different. I wouldn't want someone to just randomly come over into, like, to my house and start doing my laundry. What I say is instead of what do you need, I say, would you love? And then I'll give like a few options.

I can come over and do your laundry. I can just send you a text about how much. much I love you or I can send you like an Uber-Eat's gift card. I think know your friend. None of us are mind readers, but I think most of my close friends, again, very direct communication style, know that I would be furious if they came over and were like, I'm going to do your dishes, like without asking me first. They would just never try that. Do you remember that time I came over to your house to make you dinner and I made that pizza? I was trying to be helpful though, and it took so long. Yeah. My husband and I had our first baby four months ago and I'm navigating postpartum in the

newborn stage, and I'm simply not as available to hang out with my best friend. I can tell from our texts and calls that she's struggling to understand my life isn't the same anymore. How do I talk to her about this while making sure she knows I still value our friendship? She's making me feel guilty on top of everything else. Are you able to just be very honest? I think we all have a really hard time because we don't want to hurt people's feelings, but I think saying, I just went through this huge life change. I'm struggling. I maybe have postpartum depression or anxiety. My My husband and I aren't connecting the same way we did. I need you to give me a little grace right now, if that is possible. I also think that in friendships, we want things to stay the same forever.

And we don't want to give space for our friendships to grow in a bob. You hear it all the time like, oh, she's changed. He's changed as if it's a negative thing. But life is change. And we want ourselves to change. And why would we not want that for our friends too? So I do think there's an interesting dynamic here where especially as friends transition to different life phases, we're trying to pull them back desperately into the phase that we connected in because it feels safe, it feels secure, it feels certain. And actually, the friendship will be better if we let go of that rope a little bit and give them freedom to evolve into the next phase of their life. Yeah. The first person to have a baby before me was my best friend from high school who lives in California still. And I remember

she told me she was pregnant and I was really excited. My first thought was, oh my God, everything is going to change. And it did. Everything changed. We've always been in touch, just constantly, like, on the phone, we'll have like five-minute phone calls. And I remember her son was born and I just couldn't get a hold of her for three days. And I was just like, everything really did change and we're never going to talk again and you kind of spiral. But then if you can give them space, you find a new normal. You find a new rhythm. And ultimately, the friendship can get richer and deeper, but you're absolutely right. You have to give people the permission to change, especially when you have this big life event, like a baby. I mean, that truly changes your life in an irreversible way. I would also be curious about what are the things

that have an outsized value in making this person feel like her friendship is still valued? So, like, you don't have as much time as a new parent, but what can you give? Maybe you have one night that you hang out together and your partner stays with the baby. And that is completely uninterrupted, just the two of you time. And you can catch up on your lives and you can say, look, I don't have very much time right now. I'm choosing to give this time to you. So I hope you feel like this is expression of my love. This is an expression of how much I value this friendship. Or maybe it's that you have a text ritual where at a certain time, every day, you just send a little thinking of you text or something like that. I just wonder if you could identify the little things that would say,

I still value you. I still care about our friendship. And on either side, say, I love this. Can you do this? And they might be like, no, I can't do that, but I could do this. Or this is the mom saying this. Maybe you could find those little things you could build in. Yeah.

And I think overcommunicate. Again, say, I don't have that much time right now. What is it that I can give you that you think would make you understand that I still very much value this friendship? It's just I'm dealing with time constraints. I'm dealing with mental health stuff. I'm dealing with my body changing is a lot. Did you know that the average half life of caffeine is five hours?

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next gen or AG1 or AG1 pro at drinkag1.com slash Liz Moody. That's drinkag1.com slash Liz Moody. I'm genuinely confused how masterclass gets literally the absolute top people in every single field to teach every single one of their classes. I use it when I want to learn things directly, like the cooking class from Thomas Keller has all of the wisdom that you would normally have to go to culinary school for. But also, I'm being honest, this is like a use case I don't hear a lot of people talking about. I'll just watch it for entertainment when I want to do something that's far more interesting

than scrolling. Christina Aguilera taught me to sing. Shan Boudrum's Art of Mastering Confidence and Sex Appeal class. It's 10 out of 10. There's menopause classes with leading doctors. There's script writing with Mindy Kaling. Literally, you name it. They're on masterclass.

And it is such a good way to get off your phone, but have something that's like not quite as long or hard to get into as a TV show or a movie and that it just keeps you entertained and interested. And you are learning. There are over 200 classes from the world's best, all for just $10 a month, win billed annually. And you get unlimited access to every class on the platform so you can learn at your own pace whenever you want on your phone, your computer, or even in audio mode, like a podcast. If you're looking to stop scrolling and start consuming entertaining content that makes you feel excited and helps you learn, Masterclass is it.

And the best part, every membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee so you can start learning risk-free. Masterclass keeps adding new classes so there's never been a better time to get in. Right now, as a listener of this show, you get at least 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com slash Liz Moody. That's 15% off at Masterclass.com slash Liz Moody. Head to Masterclass.com slash Liz Moody to see the latest offer. I think one question that we're dancing around here is priorities. And I think that often as a person who is always not on the side of going through the big life change, but supporting my friends through it, it can feel like I am expected to prioritize their mental health,

their new life, their needs above everything in my life. Do you feel like that on your side as the new parent? Do you feel like your change is so large that it should be sort of prioritized against anything that I'm going through? No. I think in the beginning, yes, because I mean having a newborn is very all-consuming. No, I don't. I think I've, I'll sometimes be annoyed when my child-free friends who live in Brooklyn just constantly ask me to come to Brooklyn. This isn't like a one-time thing, like constantly and never offers to come see me. But I feel like you'd be annoyed about that even if you didn't have a case. Yes, if it's constantly.

But I think it's the like, this happens in jobs all the time. If a parent has to leave work early, we accommodate that usually. And if a child free person had to leave work or like, we wouldn't accommodate it in the same way. And society is completely not set up to support parents. And we need to procreate to continue as a species. So I just, I really weigh those two things. And I think it's really tricky. Yeah.

Those are two very different conversations, I think. For me, I would love to travel. to meet you somewhere downtown in the West Village for dinner without my kid. And I would love to come to your apartment by myself and see you. I just, I very much value time away from my kids as much as I love them. And I think it makes me a better parent and it makes me a happier person. So no, I do not expect my friends to accommodate me. And I, I don't expect them again to ask me to travel an hour to see them every single time we hang out. Do you think other parents do? What do you think from like a wider scope lens on the societal level? I think people who have less involved

partners than I do do. That is a privilege. It's a privilege. I think that there are people whose husbands do not help at all or help very little or they work really long hours. My husband has never once said, like, no, you can't go out to dinner with your friends or has freaked out when I've asked, would you mind if I go see Liz today? But I think if you're home alone with your kids a lot and you don't have a lot to help, you should really try to prioritize going to them if possible. The child free person should try if they can just because it is going to be so hard for them to get away. I don't know exactly the right way to say this, but I do think there's this tricky element

of you chose to have a kid and now I'm expected to make my life worse because of it. And structurally on a societal level, we do not support parents enough. How do you think about navigating that situation? Yeah, that is really tricky. I think there is a world where you can strike some kind of deal. So, for example, you say, why don't you come to me and I'll cook us dinner? Or why don't you come to me and maybe as long as I can bring my baby, we can go to the restaurant around the corner.

And that can be annoying for people. It's funny because I have talked to a couple of friends and we talk about how making parent friends takes like three times as long as it took to make friends when we were in our 20s because everyone's distracted. You're talking about something and then a kid is pulling on you and asking for food. We have a question about that. Oh, great. There you go. Maybe that's a perfect segue. Yeah. Well, I would just say to wrap this up, I do think, one, the conclusion I've come to is the person who is often accommodating my friends with children is like life isn't fair. And if I have it to give, I'm going to give it. And if I start to feel resentful, that is my sign that I don't have it to

give and it's okay to set a boundary there and it's okay to communicate that with my friend. Yeah. And society really is failing parents and that is not my fault. But if I can help with that, I'm gonna. And if I can't help with that, if I don't have the capacity of the moment, like, it's okay for me to step back. Okay. So here's the one about distracting conversations.

My friends with babies aren't really fun anymore and the baby is always there when we hang out. We can't have a real deep conversation because they're constantly doing one thing or another for the kid. How do I make our hangout more interesting? You're going to have to ask if there is a possibility that you can see them without their baby. And I do think that it's a mix. I do think it's fair to expect that not every single time that you see your friend with a kid, their kid does not need to be there every single time.

Yeah, absolutely. Again, it's tough because of time constraints and how expensive it is to hire a babysitter. But I really, really make an effort to see my friends, even if it's a walk, even if we're just going to grab coffee for 45 minutes. it is so important to spend time with your friends without kids because there is no world in which maybe when they're like a sleepy little newborn, sure, but there is no world in which now having an almost seven-year-old and an almost two-year-old that I can be around my friends and carry on a long adult conversation. And you're aware of that? Like sometimes I feel like I'm

sitting there and I'm like, do you notice that we are not having a quality conversation right now? Because it's like cicado. It's being interrupted all over the place. You notice that as the parent. I notice that I'm actually more likely to ignore my kids than to ignore my friend, which isn't great. So they'll be like, mommy, mommy, mommy. Like, did you hear me? Did you hear me? And I'm just like ignoring them. And then I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which also isn't great. It just is really hard. It's like how we can't actually multitask. We all think that we can multitask. We can't. It's really hard. You're never, you're not fully in either role as like friend and parent. So you got to find 45 minutes.

to spend with your friend. I would rather have like a 15-minute walk with my friend alone, unless I am actively trying to hang out with their kid, which I do that too. Like, I love hanging out with Emma. I love hanging out with Lucy. But unless I'm actively trying to hang out with her kid, I'd rather have 15 minutes alone than like two hours with a kid if I'm really going for quality time. Again, if I'm there to help babysit, great.

It's almost like know the objective of the hangout. If the objective of the hangout is quality, deep conversation, can you do something to facilitate that, even if it's a much shorter window. Yeah. And if the objective is help your friend out, then know that and go in with that as the frame of mind. Yeah. Actually, one of my good friends, we have kids that are like exactly the same age.

And she always is like, let's just, let's just hang out alone. Let's go get coffee. Let's do this. Let's do that. And I'm always kind of like, well, our kids are the same age. Like, we could all hang out. And we recently had, we went over with our kids. And it was fun, but it was so different.

Like, we didn't have one real conversation the entire time. So it's just, I think it's understanding that it's going to be a different hangout. You know, like when you're in a different life phase and your friend shows up with their boyfriend and didn't tell you that the boyfriend's coming. Yes. It's not, it's just like that. Or they will not make a plan without their boyfriend. And you're like, I know you love this person.

But also I would really love to connect with you as a friend and not have to share all my tea with your boyfriend. So like I'm adamantly against both of those things. This hasn't happened to me with people's kids. but the amount of times that I have made a plan with a friend and I show up at the bar, the restaurant, or the coffee shop, and their boyfriend is sitting next to them. And I'm like, this is now a completely different hangout. And do I want to get to know your boyfriend and talk to him? Yes, I think he's lovely. But I also just wanted to talk to you. Will you say something? No, I've never said any. I just am quietly annoyed. I feel left behind as the only friend not married with babies. Everyone's at kids' activities and dinners, and I don't get the invite.

How do I insert myself into these hangs so I don't miss out on my friend's lives? So my question for you is, do you want to be invited to these hangouts? I always want to be invited because I don't want the fomo. I don't want to feel like, oh, I didn't like achieve this life milestone, so I don't even get the invite. I don't always want to come. I want to come some of the time. Like I went to Emma's birthday party. I will go to other ones.

But I don't want that to be like my entire schedule. Yeah. So I always invite friends if they have kids or not. I just am like, come if you want. And I always make sure that there's stuff for the adults to do and that there's other adults there so that it's not like, oh, let's just stare at the kids. Like in the bouncy house, it's very boring. I always invite them.

But I think just saying a lot of the times we don't know. And I don't want my friends to feel pressure. So I'll send a text that's like, you're invited to come to this birthday party. It's a kid's birthday party. No pressure. I just wanted to let you know you're invited. And I think that we worry about boring them. Like, this isn't going to be fun.

Like, you were just out last night at the club until like 3 a.m. Like, why would you want to come to this kid's birthday party? But I think it always feels good to be invited. And I think just telling your friend that they probably think that you just would be cringing if you were like invited to your kid's soccer. game or something like that. So it's not about you or their feelings about you. It's no, likely about their own feelings. Yeah, they're likely like, oh gosh, this won't be fun for them. I mean, something that you talk about a lot is you're always so worried about your friends having fun. Like,

when you have your friend come over, you want to cook them an elaborate meal and make sure that they're having the best possible time. That's how parents feel. They're like, I don't want my friend to be bored at my kid's soccer game or dance show or like, I have a friend who is like, tell me when Emma's performance is, I would love to see it. And she doesn't have kids. And I'm like, you would want to see it? But I don't think she's being like that. I don't think she's saying that to be nice. I think she genuinely maybe isn't actually interested in the performance, but just like wants me to know that she cares about me and cares about things going on in my life. Or she wants to see it. Yeah, or she wants to see it. Yeah, or she wants to see it. She just finished a two-week theater camp and she did wonderfully. I recently became a new mom and was

invited on a bachelorette party to Vegas. I just don't feel comfortable leaving. and my baby for the weekend, and I feel terrible it timed out this way, especially since the bride came to my Bachelorette. Am I a bad friend? How can I make sure that she still feels celebrated by me, even if I can't make it? Can you try to go? Okay, tell me why. I went to a Bachelorette party of this same friend who is constantly offering to see Emma's dance performances. I went to her Bachelorette party when I was still breastfeeding and had to pump the entire time. It was hard, but it felt like it was important to her. And I have no regrets.

So I would say if there is a way you can make that work, try. If you truly do not feel comfortable, I also think that if I had sent this friend who was a very good friend to me, a text saying, listen, I'm still breastfeeding, I'm not really comfortable leaving my baby for a weekend. I don't think that there's a way I'm going to be able to make it to Vegas for a bachelor's party. Is there anything else I can do to celebrate you? Or don't even ask that question, say, I would love to take you out to dinner when we get back and we can celebrate you getting married because it's a really big deal. I think that's perfect advice on both fronts. I do think testing

the limits we're setting for ourselves within reasons. Sometimes they're real. Sometimes they're not. But like there's the idea of if you want a village, you have to be a villager. Yes. And friendship requires discomfort sometimes. So I think asking yourself, is that discomfort really too far for you? Sometimes the answer is going to be yes, and that's okay. But sometimes it's just pushing yourself through a little discomfort. And that is what showing up for our friends looks like. Totally. When I thought about the logistics of this, I was like, this is going to be really hard. I'm going to have to be pumping. I have to leave my husband with both kids. I just had left him for another work trip. I felt so guilty. I had to push myself through a lot of discomfort. And I look back on that weekend and it was so much

fun. And we're also in our late 30s. This was not like a wild bachelor at weekend. Maybe Vegas is less tame. It was absolutely worth it. And I'm so glad I went. And there's probably a way to do Vegas that's like, I'm here. I cannot. But maybe I'm not going out to the club every night. You know what I mean? Yeah. Let me just go pump and dump. Yeah. Yeah. Genuinely the most used item in my kitchen is my Wonder Oven Pro from our place. It has sold out eight times. It's that good. And it's finally back in stock. So get it before it's gone. The Wonder Evan Pro is an eight in one airfire, toaster oven dehydrator and so much more that has made it so much easier to cook, to roast, to bake. It preheats 60% faster than a traditional oven and it cooks up to

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We became instant best friends because we related on everything, but now conversation almost feels awkward without that, oh my God, me too, response. I'm afraid we're going to drift apart. Any advice on how we can get our spark back. My advice here is going to be from Anna Goldfarb. We did an episode with her. She is the friendship expert for the New York Times. and she says that friendships always need an about.

So the about can be we're both huge survivor fans. It can be we have kids of a certain age. It can be we love crocheting. And it sounds like this friendship had a lot of abouts. They related on everything. And it sounds like now they are missing whatever those abouts were. So my advice for this person would be you get the spark back by finding a different about.

So it's not just getting together and catching up and being like, okay, tell me about your wedding. And they're like, okay, let me tell about your job. You can't find an about in these like catch up conversations. can you suggest learning a new hobby or skill or sport together? Can you start watching a show together? Like, I think this friendship desperately needs to be injected with a new about. Yeah, go to the movies.

It's depressing because it's the only time I'm not with my phone. But I'm like, wow, I really was just like immersed in this movie. The invite I've heard is really good. I loved it. And a great conversation starter. Yeah, any movie. I think that we often do like dinner and then a movie. And I like to reverse it and I do movie at like 4 p.m., which is,

cheaper. All very old people and me. And then I go to dinner after so you can discuss the movie and use it as a jumping off point. But I think to have even like a movie being about, it needs to be like a movie club where we're going to like watch through all the Oscar winners. It really needs, I think about needs a little bit of structure, especially if you're trying to replace this like we were both single girls out on the town about that you had. And that's what's going to make it really sticky. Yeah. Take a cooking class.

Yeah. That's a really good one. Or cook your way through a cookbook together. I think that would be so. much fun. Just start on page one. We're going to cook through all the recipes in this cookbook. Again, like any sort of recurring plan, structure, new hobby, I think that will infuse your friendship with a spark. Yeah. And it is hard because in your 20s, it's like the about is drinking together. Yeah. And then you have to figure out as an adult. Yes. Well, and I think that's such a good point. I think

that's why friendships feel harder in our 30s in many ways because you lose that like very simple about of like we're discovering the world together. We're getting wasted. You know, we're new babies and jobs and like that, you know, like it does feel harder in your 30s. Okay, let's do the next one. I just found out that I'm pregnant and I'm nervous to tell my friend who has been struggling with infertility. How do I tell her while being sensitive to her journey? I personally struggled with secondary infertility, which means that my first was no problem

and second, I had a couple losses before having Lucy, my second daughter, and she was born via IVF. So I do have some experience with this. I would say if you are going to tell your friend, which you're going to be a couple of to have to tell them eventually that you are pregnant, send a text, don't tell them in person. And it's so funny because it's one of those things where like you always imagine like, you'll sit down with your friend at coffee and be like, I have something to tell you. I'm pregnant.

In this case, send a text because they can react when they want and you can't really read emotions through a text. So they don't have to answer it immediately. They can wait a day. They can wait a few hours. I've also been on the other side of that where I have. have been pregnant and I have known someone struggling and I have dreaded telling them and I just send a text. That's so interesting. I wouldn't have thought of that advice, but I do think that's

really interesting. When you were dealing with infertility, would you want to hear updates about your friend's pregnancy? Like should this person kind of have that be an off-limits topic? It wasn't really that long that I was struggling. I did have one friend who I am close with and we've always had a very open relationship. We were pregnant at the same time. Our kids were going to be close in age and I lost that baby. And then she said to me like, I'm just so scared to talk to you. She just like said it to me. And it was just the most helpful thing ever. And she's like, can I tell you stuff? And it was just felt so easy with her. Like I could just say like, I don't want to hear about this or I would just kind of keep my distance a little bit. But she,

we were very, very open about it. She was very open about not wanting to hurt my feelings. but also wanting to share with me. And ultimately, I was really involved in her pregnancy and her daughter was born really early and I went to visit her in the NICU. Again, sometimes you have to push through the discomfort with friendship. And that felt better to me than ignoring the fact that she was pregnant. So I think send the text. I love that advice. And then you can ask your friend, how involved do you want to be in this? How much you want to talk about this? And also maybe give your friend permission. If it's feeling like too much for you, just tell me no harm, no foul. We will change the subject immediately. Yeah, I think one of the reasons that I don't like romance novels is because

I always feel that all of the issues could be solved in one, like, just adult conversation. And that's my entire approach to life is like, let's not like dance around it. Let's just say this is what I need. And that's why I've always gravitated toward people that are very brutally honest, like this friend who said to me, like, I'm terrified of you right now. I just was like, thank you for saying that. Now we can deal with it. We can talk about it and figure out what's going to work. But a lot of people don't feel. feel like they're in those relationships even if they would want to be. Totally. But I think nothing bad ultimately has ever come from honesty.

Nothing is really achieved with avoidance or passive aggression. Similar to the Bachelorette Party, if you can push past how uncomfortable it is to ask the hard questions, how uncomfortable it is to have that honest conversation, only good things will come out of that. And if they don't, that friend's not worth it. I don't know the metaphor for this, but I feel like there's something with like it hurts more right away, but then it will start to heal faster versus having this like festering pain for an extended period of time.

Rip off the banding? Oh, yeah. Is that what it is? I don't know the classic one. Just rip it off. It's going to hurt. But then you're going to get that scab and it's going to start to heal. Yes.

Yes. Absolutely. Okay. I'm 35 and intentionally child free. Most of my friends have kids or planned to. I struggle to feel genuinely happy for them. I wonder how anyone can bring a child. into this world right now, and I can't envision what my husbands and my life will look like down the road.

The first thing I do want to point out here is I do think there's like a little bit of judgment in this question. And I say that with all of the love in my heart, I wonder how anyone can bring a child into this world right now. I think about all the time how my parents almost did not have me in the 1980s because it was the Cold War and they thought that we were going to die by nuclear apocalypse at any moment. And they chose to have me and I'm really grateful to be here. Before the Cold War, there was the Korean War. There was the Vietnam War. There was the Vietnam. Vietnam were there was World War II. Before that, there was the Depression, then there was World War I. If we go back further than that, we are like in plagues and times of economic insecurity, depression, all these different things. Like, we are technically living in the best time

ever to be alive. If you look at almost any statistic, the normal person is more comfortable today than they have ever been in history and us deciding what the future is for our friends and their choices is just deeply unfair. Thinking we know better of what the world is going to look like for our friends and the decisions they're making for our life, I just don't think it's a fair thing to do. Yeah, something that you always say that I love is that having a child is the most hopeful thing you can do. It's a huge act of hope. It's a huge act of hope. And you're absolutely right. I say this to people all the time because people love to be like, oh, things are. so bad and AI and the political climate. And I totally agree with you. Things, I mean,

I think about all the time how you get a cancer diagnosis now and there are treatment options for you. And it used to just be a death sentence. You were dead. I think about how HIV is now no longer a death sentence. And there are things about this moment that are scary, but every moment in history has had scary things. And if people at every moment in history decided not to have children, none of us would be here right now. And I'm not saying that everybody should go out and have children. Again, I do not have children right now, but I do think that putting your feelings of doom on other people's choices around having children is just, like, it's like saying that you know everything and you just do not. And also just let them have this thing that they, that they want.

I mean, I, you have asked me for years, like, how did you know that you wanted kids? And I have always said to you that I can't explain why I wanted kids. It's just this deep down instinct that it's something that I want, that I've always wanted. And so let your friend have that. If that is that same thing that they feel and they have this baby and they're excited about that, you don't have to make that choice. Part of friendship is not judging, like, there are certain situations where your friend might be making an absolutely horrible choice that's threatening their lives or the lives of someone else. But having a baby is not that. So let them have this joyful thing for them. I just think about like what is within your nexus of control.

What is not in your nexus of control is whether or not your friends have. kids or plan to. What is within your nexus of control is what you choose to do with your time and your life. I think this person desperately needs intentionally child-free friends. They need ERA's friends that are intentionally child-free, and they need to figure out how to let the things that are outside of their control be outside of their control. Yeah. If you go on Reddit, there's like child-free subreddits. Yeah. Find your people. There are tons of people now that I know who are my age and don't have kids and plan to never have kids. They're out there. So go find them. doesn't mean those have to exclusively be your friends, but that means that you need those friends

as well. And that's how I think you'll be able to envision what you and your husband's life will look like down the road, especially multi-generational friends who are child-free. I think having friends in their like 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s who are child-free, you will literally have a roadmap for what your life possibilities down the road might be. And I think that'll add this level of excitement and adventure to your life that'll be really satisfying. Yeah. And the world absolutely needs people who don't have kids and are willing to devote their time and their resources to making the world a better place. What do you think has been the most challenging thing in our friendship with navigating being in different life phases? So there was a time a few years ago,

it was 20, 21 or something, and we were out for the winter and we didn't have child care. And my parents were in Mexico and they were going to be our child care. And then they got stuck because of COVID. And you were planning Zach's birthday. And you were like, you got to come. You got to come to this. You got to come to that. Remember I sent you a text? I was like, Liz, I can't do this right now. I don't have child care. I wish you would offer to sit on a playground with me. And you were so receptive to that. You were. You don't remember this at all. I don't remember it at all. You probably blacked it out because it was one of my like overly honest text. And that was hard. And I remember just being like, this is so annoying because she's inviting me to Zach's birthday on a yacht or something

cool like that. I've never had died birth in a yacht. What was it on? Oh, we did rent a sailboat. A sailboat? No, we literally rented a sailboat. It's funny because it was like a pretty grim sailboat, actually, it ended up being. So it's good. I didn't go. And it was cold. And it was cold. Again, you were just so receptive to that. And I was so, I wasn't expecting anything else, honestly, because I just know you and I know who you are. And ever since then, you've been amazing at showing up for me, but also I always make sure that we get alone time because that's very important to me. Me, and I really appreciate that. And that was hard, but it was also not insurmountable.

And again, it's like you just send the text. As a mom, what's your best advice for other moms so that they're not leaving behind their friends who are in different life phases than them? Just show up to things. Friendship can be really uncomfortable. You just want to lie on your couch and watch Netflix because you're so tired. Just push through that and show up for your friend. If they are having a bachelor party, if they're just like, I'm just like, I'm not. I just want to see you and get dinner.

Like, just push yourself to go. And as a mom, what's your best advice for child-free people listening who don't want to lose their friendship with their friends as they become parents? I think remember that this is a season of life and having little kids does not last forever. And I think just continuing to be a steady presence in their lives, even if it feels hard, it's kind of like weighted out a little bit and know that eventually there will be a time. when they have just as much time for you. I also want to do one more, which is you were single late into your 20s.

And I remember that you had some feelings about that before you met your husband. Yeah. Do you have any advice for people who are single? They haven't met their person and they feel like they're being left behind? Making sure that you always have other single friends is super, super important. I think more than any time, having people that you can go out with, that you can trade dating stories with. Because otherwise you're just going to be alone and bitter, and that's really hard.

And again, having era's friends, friends in the same areas, you does not mean letting go of the other friendship. It just means you're adding in friends who are experiencing the same things as you. Yes, absolutely. And if you want to meet someone, like on a similar mission, I hate to call it a mission in a way, but you know, you're kind of aligned and like, oh, we're going out tonight and maybe we'll meet people or I don't know, maybe people only meet on the apps now. So you're both swiping together. Yeah. Yeah. You have an about.

You haven't about. Yeah. Swiping. All right. I think that is unfortunately all that we have time for today. Thank you, Lee. If you loved this episode, send it to somebody in your life who you think might love it. Maybe somebody who's in a different life phase than you.

It could begin to open up some of these conversations and just make the unsaid a little bit more sad. As a reminder, this is a series. So stay tuned for our mother-in-law episode. And you can also go back and listen to the episode that I recorded. with Zach about your trickiest relationship struggles. I love you guys so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being willing to talk about these trickier topics with us. I will never lose my appreciation for that. And I will see you on the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

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