The Liz Moody Podcast - My Biggest Insecurities + The Tools That Help The Most
Episode Date: April 21, 2025Do you feel alone in your insecurities? Everybody has them — and understanding your insecurities without shame or judgement can help you grow. In this mini-episode, I’m getting vulnerable and shar...ing my biggest insecurities. I hope that by listening to my insecurities and how I manage them, you can feel a little less alone when you deal with your own. Our insecurities come from lots of places, from societal expectations to personal experiences. In a society that asks women to look perfect without trying, you’re almost guaranteed to find something about your body to be insecure about. I’m also sharing my strategies to deal with these insecurities to help you live a self-confident life. Check out the previous episodes of The Liz Moody Podcast discussed today: Giada di Laurentiis Spills Italian Secrets for Health Living 90210’s Jennie Garth Gives The Best Advice For Your 20s, 30s, & 40s. The Truth About Menopause & Perimenopause: Thriving in Your 30s, 40s & Beyond with Tamsen Fadal 10 Learning From My Week At The Life-Changing Hoffman Process Personal Growth Retreat Match Theory: This Simple Mindset Hack Will Transform Your Relationships & Happiness Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order Liz’s book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now! To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. Connect with Liz on Instagram @lizmoody or online at www.lizmoody.com. Subscribe to the substack by visiting https://lizmoody.substack.com/welcome. This episode is sponsored by: Puori: go to puori.com/LIZMOODY and use promo code LIZMOODY for 20% off sitewide. LMNT: go to DrinkLMNT.com/LizMoody to get a free LMNT sample pack with any order. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast. This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. The Liz Moody Podcast Episode 322. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
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Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Liz Moody podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a little different.
I want to get really honest with you about something that we all deal with, but we do not
talk about enough.
Insecurities.
I'm going to share some of my biggest ones and the science back strategies that I've found
helped the most with managing them.
I am a bit nervous about this episode, but my hope is that by the end of it, you'll feel
less alone in some of your own struggles and you'll walk away with tools to help you feel
more confident, grounded, and like you are enough. I also want to start by saying everyone has
insecurities. I find it really helpful to remind myself that no matter how successful I perceive someone
as, there are things they are insecure about. It is part of being human. Our brains are wired to
scan for threats and sometimes those threats are internal, like the fear of not being good enough
or not measuring up. I find it really helpful to remind myself that there is a why to all of this.
There's a reason that my brain is working in this way. They can also have really interesting benefits.
They can drive personal growth. They can help us connect with other people. The key is learning
to work with them instead of letting them control us. So as I share my insecurities, I invite you to
maybe notice some of your own without shame and without judgment. And maybe by the
end of this episode, you'll have a new perspective on some of them. Okay, that was probably enough
preamble, enough stalling on my part. So let's dive into some of my insecurities and the tools that I
use to deal with them. These are in no particular order because ranking your insecurities feels like
a step too far even for me. Insecurity number one, my appearance. And to be more specific,
my height. Whenever I meet you guys in real life, the number of
one thing that you comment on is how I am so much shorter than you thought I would be.
For the record, I am 5'1 and a half. The half is important. Half technically rounds up to 5 foot
two. And for my entire life, I've had to hem pants and I've had to be called cute versus
beautiful or sexy. Remember in college, all of my friends were these Amazonian model women.
And I felt like my only choice was to be the funny one in the group. And then beyond my height,
there are other things that I have a really hard time with about my appearance. For years, I got told
that I had really beautiful blue eyes and I internalized, okay, my eyes are my one thing. I dyed my hair
black, like completely black. I wore dark eyeliner all around my eyes. I wore blue shirts,
anything and everything in service of making people notice the eyes and only the eyes because
I thought, I thought this makes me so sad to say, I thought that this makes me so sad to say, I thought that
they were the only thing that made me beautiful. And when it worked and when I did get all of these
compliments on my eyes, as was the point, it reinforced that the rest of me wasn't worth complimenting.
Let's keep going. Why not? My hairline has driven me nuts since I was 11 years old. I didn't know it was
bad before then. And then I was at tennis camp over the summer and I was wearing a visor with a ponytail.
And one of the other kids at camp asked why you could see bald spots behind the visor because
I have a big old forehead and I have a really high hairline.
And I was like, oh, okay, I guess that's a problem.
And to this day, I see the girlies with like their slick back buns and I'm like, wow, I
could never.
Like that is not available to me.
And while we are talking about appearances, I have to, of course, talk about my body.
I have spent so many years feeling insecure about my body.
I remember when I was a kid, my mom telling me that women in my family have big butts and big
hips, and we have to be careful to not let them get out of control. She was always watching her weight.
She was talking about calories and food. She was talking about her problems with her body,
which is so, so similar to the shape of my body, the way that my body looks, and I fully internalized.
This is not a body that is worth loving. This is a body that you have to control and conform
and mold into something shaped in a way that's more pleasing to society. And as I got older, it got worse.
I had an eating disorder when I was in college.
And while I haven't been in that place in a really long time, thankfully, I'm so grateful for that.
I will say that it's been one of the hardest things about my career in social media and on camera.
While pretty privilege absolutely exists in real life, it is exponential online.
I'd be sweating over posts.
I'd be trying to provide all of this value.
And then I would swipe to the next reel and I'd see this model type woman, maybe do like,
a twirl or make a two-ingredient smoothie and it would have 50 times the views and the likes of
anything that I would ever put out there. There's this thing that content creators talk about where
audiences like people who are really hot, like gorgeous, or people who are like really messy and
they kind of go in the opposite direction because the former is aspirational and the latter is so,
so relatable. And this is subconscious for most of us. I'm sure that I'm guilty of it too.
but my appearance kind of falls in the middle, which is not where you want to be. And I also do think
there's this thing, especially with people who are sharing tips for living your best life,
where there's this pressure to be the pinnacle of whatever you're talking about. So if I'm talking
about eating well, I'm talking about moving your body, I think about sometimes whether people
are judging my body. It's that like I'll have what she's having thing. And even if this is just the
way that my body happens to be shaped. I'm shorter, I'm curvier, I have these hips and thighs that my
mom had and my grandma had. And even if this is me at my healthiest, if it's not what people's
vision is of ideal, well then will they be less inclined to listen to the science that I'm
sharing? And the last thing I want to touch on when it comes to appearance is aging. You guys have
heard me talk about this before, but I both get Botox and I really struggle with you.
idea of it. I struggle with the performance of beauty and with the idolization of youth as beauty.
And I struggle with the rituals around that ranging from hair extensions and hair dyed to
Botox to makeup. And I struggle with the fact that when I perform these rituals, I quite
literally, quite noticeably, am treated differently, both in my personal and professional life. And
that when I perform these rituals, I am adding to the problem, both at large and in my own
mind. Okay. I am already having a vulnerability hangover. So let's get back into my comfort zone for a
second and talk about how I deal with this particular insecurity. And then I will share a few of my
other insecurities and how I deal with them. Let's start with something that I just said a moment
ago. I have these hips and thighs that my mom had and my grandma had. I have hooded eyes like
my Armenian dad and my grandma before him. I have my dad's hairline, like copy paste.
There's something so beautiful about the connection to our lineage, to our history that comes from our unique features.
And something so truly tragic about all of us rushing out to erase those ties to have the same hairlines and noses.
And I try to think about my body and all of its parts as these links that I have to my ancestors,
to the pain and the joy and the love and the work that they all went through that resulted somehow in me sitting here and hosting this.
podcast in 2025. It makes me want to cry. And when I truly think about it, when I focus on it in this
way, I can look at my hips and my hairline with not only a sense of gratitude, but a real sense of
awe. I also force myself to think about who I truly think is beautiful. And when I do that,
the people who come to mind are not the celebrities who've had a ton of the same plastic surgery and
all essentially look the exact same now. I think about Kirsten Dunst who has a snagletooth that's very
similar to mine. I did not mention that earlier in my insecurities, but that is definitely on the
list, my little special tooth. But Kirsten Dunst has one too, and she is so much sexier for it.
I cannot even picture her with veneers. It would look so much much worse. I think about Sarah Jessica
Parker and Sex and the City and her phenomenal nose and how much more boring her face would
have been if she'd gotten it altered. I personally think that beauty requires interest. It requires
something to peak your attention to make you want to keep looking, and that is not going to happen
if everyone looks the same as everyone else. So I think about that, and it helps me embrace the
parts of me that are unique. It's how I've talked myself out of fixing my snagled tooth for the last
decade, even as veneers have become more and more popular. I also try to explicitly seek out and
follow these people on social media. The beauty that we're exposed to is so hugely.
impactful in terms of how we feel about ourselves. So diversify the beauty in your feed.
It is such a simple step. It makes such a huge difference. Follow people of different faces and
shapes and unfollow people who make you feel bad about yourself, period. I promise you that it is
not inspiring you to eat a certain way or work out in a certain way. Real change comes from a
place of self-love, not shame. I do this for my aging insecurities too. I have a feed filled with
incredible women of all different ages who are all doing incredible things with their lives.
This is also why I love and just like that, the new Sex in the City show, yes, I love Sex
in the City. I will always come back to Sex in the City. But there's research from Dr.
Beka Levy at Yale that shows that when we have positive aging beliefs, it adds 7.5
literal years to our lives. And when I interviewed her, she said one of the
best ways to have positive aging beliefs is to have positive aging role models. And these can be
in our lives, but they can also be in our media. And just like that has these women in their 50s and
their 60s who are wearing fabulous outfits, they're having incredible sex, they're starting new
relationships, they're starting new businesses. And it is so heartening for me as a woman in my 30s
to see that this is the potential for my future, that the best years of my life can be ahead of me.
I am always on the lookout for women who are breaking free from the notions of what life should or could look like at any age.
And I've been lucky enough to have some really great examples on this podcast.
I'm thinking of Jada de Laurentis, who started a new business in her 50s, Jenny Garth, Tamson Fidel.
The list goes on.
Listen to those episodes if you need some positive aging role models in your life.
And then, of course, I would be remiss to not mention one of my life mottos.
My body is for living, not looking.
This idea isn't about ignoring how we feel about our appearance. It's about shifting the focus to what our bodies do for us every single day.
Our bodies let us hug our friends and family members. Our bodies let us dance to music that we love. They let us feel the sand on the beach and the warmth of the sun on our skin.
Every single time that I focus on living in my body, I find myself caring so much less about how I look.
When I'm at the top of a mountain on a long hike, I do not give a shit about how my butt looks.
I care that that butt powered me up a freaking mountain side and let me look at this view, this magical world.
This body is the vessel through which I get to experience the world, not a visual thing that people can use to experience me.
If you actually think for a single second about everything that your body does for you throughout the day, the conscious and unconscious processes, the muscles contracting, the sleeping, the thinking, the swallowing, the speaking, it is wild. And it is even wilder that amidst all of that we're like, oh, but hold up, no dimples on those thighs. That's what's going to be a deal breaker for me. The last thing that I'm going to mention here is a trick that I use all the time, which is checking in with.
my 90-year-old self. My 90-year-old self doesn't give a shit about my cellulite and she is probably
cackling at the wrinkles that I am fixating on right now. My 90-year-old self is screaming at me to go
enjoy the body that I am in. Every second that I spend on the beach carrying about how I look
in my swimsuit covering my thighs up with a towel, my 90-year-old self is like, girl, go splashing
the waves. Feel that ocean. Delight in the strength of your thumbs.
Eyes, jump for God's sake. Do a hop, do a skip, do a twirl. My 90-year-old self thinks that I am super
banging hot. My 90-year-old self wants me to wear the flirty dresses. Our time on this planet is so, so short.
Truly, it is so much shorter than we think. There is not a single one of us that's going to get to the
end of it and think, I wish I'd spent more time worrying about how I looked. Not a single one of us.
So when I cannot do it for me, I do it for her and it really does help.
It all helps.
But I do want to say I am not living at 100%.
I'm not waking up and going, my body is for living, not looking.
I have my ancestors hips.
I love my five head.
One of the most helpful shifts that I have made is making peace with my insecurities,
gently saying, hey, I know where you're coming from.
I use my tools.
I examine my thoughts, but I don't push them away.
way because that makes them stronger. And I do not shame myself for still struggling with these things
because I am a human in the world and that is a hard thing to be and I am doing the best that I can
and I know that you are too. When you think about strength and resilience, like your ability to feel
energized, to recover well, to stay strong as you get older, what do you think that actually comes
from? Most people say working out or good nutrition and yes, of course that matters. But there is a
biological foundation underneath all of that that most people are completely overlooking.
I have been diving deep into this lately with the team at timeline and what I've learned has
genuinely shifted how I think about my own health. Every single movement that your body makes,
every step, every workout, every muscle contraction depends on energy produced at the cellular level.
And at the center of that is your mitochondria. Here's the thing that nobody tells you,
certainly nobody told me, starting around age 30, our mitochondria naturally become
less efficient. More get damaged, more become sluggish, and over time that impacts your energy,
your strength, your recovery, and your resilience. Most of us respond by pushing more. We're
noticing these things and we're adding in more protein. We're trying to fix it with more supplements.
We're trying to do harder workouts. And those things do help. But timelines research suggests that we
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inherently unlovable at my core and that I have to essentially earn love, that other people can just
chill out and be themselves and be loved. And meanwhile, I'm like tap dancing and juggling porcelain plates
while performing poetry. And I'm like, is this enough? Am I lovable now? This feels like,
really crazy to just explicitly say out loud. I'm like verbally journaling here. I bet you thought that
the appearance staff was as vulnerable as I was going to get. And then here we are like, bam, I'm unlovable.
But I think it is so important to talk about these things in a really honest and true way because
so many of us feel this way, even if none of us are talking about it. When I was at Hoffman,
that therapy retreat that I went to, I have a whole episode that I can link to about my experience
there in the show notes, but there's this one part of it where essentially everybody stands up and
says that one core insecurity, that one narrative that plays over and over in our brain,
and literally half the room was like, at my core, I am unlovable. And in fact, I've noticed that a lot
of incredibly successful people have this core belief. And that's one of the things that drives them
to push and accomplish all of these incredible things. So if you, if you're
feel this way. I promise, you're not alone, and maybe it's even driven you to do some really
phenomenal things with your life. This insecurity, this unlovable insecurity, can come from so many
things. For me, it was probably a family dynamic where I really felt like I had to earn love
from my stepmother, who was one of my primary caregivers. I was also praised pretty universally
when I succeeded, especially for my brain, which really led me to think, I got to be super
smart because that's what makes people love me. It could also be from a million other little things.
Sometimes I think we get too caught up in trying to pinpoint all of the reasons we are the way we are
when in fact we don't really need to know all of the why is to heal them. It can be really helpful,
sure, but this is something that I've had to internalize over the years. The healing can happen anyway.
Even if like me you've blocked out a lot of your childhood memories due to trauma, the healing can happen.
anyway. As an adult, this fear of not being enough has very much manifested in my overachieving
at work. I try to climb and climb and climb and climb and each milestone feels like an accomplishment
for a second or two and then it is on to the next. I constantly compare myself to people ahead of
me, sure that they are more sparkly, they are more talented than me and that is why everyone
loves them more. It also comes out as imposter syndrome. Just the other day, I was asking
Zach, if I'd somehow tricked everyone into liking my podcast, and if it was all a house of cards
that would come tumbling down when people realized they didn't really give a shit about it or me.
And all of that just generally feeds into the idea that I am a perpetual outsider.
Like everyone else is in this secret club of wealth or influence or success.
And no matter what, I will be clinging right to the edge of it, like the hang in their kitten
poster on a guidance counselor's wall.
Right there, but never quite in, never quite comfortable.
It also plays out in smaller social dynamics.
Like most people would probably think that I'm an extrovert.
I get told this all of the time.
At a party, I am likely to be in the center of a group.
I'm telling jokes.
I'm asking questions.
You are leaving that conversation feeling entertained.
One of the most common compliments that I get is about my charisma, about my curiosity,
about how bold and funny and fun I am socially.
And I say this not to brag,
but because it is so counter to how I feel on the inside.
I have learned to do this because I am so, so afraid that if I don't,
if I am not this person, no one will want to hang out with me.
I always have an eye toward everyone in the group.
I'm making sure they're having fun.
I'm making sure that they wouldn't rather be somewhere else.
And I'm not saying that I don't have fun because I do.
There's a huge part of me that's silly and playful and boisterous and loves attention.
I am a Leo after all.
And, and there's a part of me that is exhausted at the end of any social hang that makes me
if I didn't have the interesting conversation starters and the funny quips if anyone would
want to spend time with me.
And then there's the flip side of it all.
I worry constantly that I'm a tryhard.
I hate that I can't seem to turn off.
off the part of my brain that is always calculating how I am coming across. Am I being too much? Am I being
too eager? Am I being too emotional, too intense? And I look at other people either personally or
professionally, and it feels like it is so easy for them. Look how effortlessly they host that
podcast and are lauded and applauded for it. Look how effortless they are in our social group and
everyone wants to be around them anyway. Taylor Swift has that song.
mirror ball. And if I'm in the right mood, the lyrics make me cry. They just make me feel really
seen. She's like, I'm still on that type. I'm not going to sing it. I'm not going to do that to you.
I'm still on that tightrope. I'm still trying everything to get you laughing at me. I've never been a
natural. All I do is try, try, try. I'm still on that trapeze. I'm still trying everything to
keep you looking at me. I've actually talked to a lot of people in the public eye, a lot of celebrities.
and they have the same core belief, that they're unlovable, and then that leads to the art and the
performance and all of this incredible output. But then when people love you only for that output,
it reinforces the idea that you, at your core, are unlovable, and it becomes this self-perpetuating
vicious cycle. Okay, so how do I deal with this? First of all, I test it. And if I being honest,
sometimes I test it in really harmful ways, like the people that I am the most, the most of the most of
most comfortable with. Those are the people that I sometimes show the worst parts of myself because
I want them to prove they love me anyway that I am lovable with all of that, which is not good.
And I really do not recommend that strategy. But a healthy way that I tested is to ask myself,
what if love isn't something that I earn, but something that I receive? What if I don't have to
always be sparkly and interesting and clever? What if I could just show
up in a room and not feel the need to prove my worth, but just exist and trust that I am enough.
So I'll hang back. I will let go of the need to entertain. I'll let other people take the lead
socially and I'll trust that people will have fun. I've also started noticing and cherishing
the moments where I am deeply myself. I am unfiltered. I'm quiet maybe. I'm a little weird.
I'm not performative at all. And people stay. And maybe everyone.
won't love that person, and that is okay. I have a whole episode on something that I call
match theory that I can link in the show notes, but essentially the idea is that we don't get
anything by getting everyone to like us. We are looking for our matches in life, not to impress
a bunch of people with our inauthentic selves. So maybe I'm not everyone's cup of tea. Maybe I'm an
outsider in some groups. That's cool. I don't like everyone, so why would everyone like me? And the more
authentic that I am, the more I lean into my true self, the more I will find the perfect matches for
that person. I also try to look at the people that I love the most in my life and I ask myself,
do I love them because they are useful or helpful or impressive? No, I love them because they're real,
because they're human, because of their quirks and their softness and their flaws. I love them
because of how they make me feel, not because they're juggling knives and trying to win me over.
Their imperfections make me comfortable and make them human.
So why wouldn't I believe that someone could feel the same way about me?
Not to get to psychologisty here, but it is also helpful to remind myself that performing for
love is a trauma response.
It's something that I learned to do to feel safe and I don't need to hate that part of me.
I can just notice it and I can offer it the love and the compassion that it is looking for.
I can say, thank you.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for trying to keep me safe. Thank you for trying to get me love in this
way. But I don't need you to do this right now. I'm allowed to rest. I am lovable. I am lovable
for being exactly the person that I am. Another small thing that helps with this insecurity is not
leading with what I do. We live in a society that really encourages us to identify as what we do and what we
have, our jobs, our houses, our purses, our cars, they are all signifiers to let people perceive us.
I've even noticed that people will sometimes use their kids this way. And every time we do that,
we are saying, these are the things that make me lovable, that make me worthy, my expensive
house, my talented kids, my cool job, which means that without these things, I would not be worthy.
Which means that I am not worthy exactly as I am. So I try,
not to lead with those things. And when I start conversations with other people, I try to create that
space for them not to as well. I ask people what they're excited about instead of what they do for work
when I first meet them. I try to have conversations that are about topics about opinions and thoughts
versus just our jobs or whatever we happen to have bought that week. And I try to watch myself.
It's a really helpful technique to curb shopping is to ask yourself, is this something that I would buy
even if nobody ever saw it.
Is this something that I am buying for me or to be perceived in a certain way by other people?
Because remember, any validation that you get for being perceived in a certain way adds to the idea
that you are worse off without those things, that your core self isn't worthy of the validation
and the love.
So ask yourself that and you will feel more lovable and you'll also probably save some money.
So it's a win-win.
A lot of my fears around being unlovable are also tied up in the idea of being good enough.
And for that, the most helpful thing for me has been to question, what does enough mean?
What is this fantasy idea of perfection?
I've never been there, have you?
Because as far as I can tell, that bar is always moving.
So if you're chasing it, you are just running a marathon that never ends.
The best antidote that I have found to this is figuring out how to enjoy the journey.
It's not celebrating the publication of a book. It's celebrating coming up with an idea, making an
outline, getting an agent, and every damn day that I sit my butt down to write. I am huge on doing
this with friends too. I do not give a damn about celebrating you hitting the bestseller list.
That is out of your control. But what was in your control? All of the work that you put into what
you created. Every day that you could have been doing something else and you sat down and you wrote
instead, the art that you created. That is all so worth celebrating to me. If you want a friend who
celebrates small wins, who will do a dance party with you, or a special dinner because you hit a
tiny milestone along the way, that is me. Because that's life. The big deal moments, the weddings
and the engagements and the huge work wins and the children being born. These are such a teeny, tiny
percentage of our lives. Life is everything that happens between.
Life is what we're missing when we're waiting for those moments.
That in between that magic of the Monday and that beauty of the every single damn day, that is
what I'm interested in practicing celebrating.
I want to become a professional at celebrating the every day.
So that is what I'm working on.
I am not perfect at it, but I am trying.
I'm trying to show up as me even when it feels scary.
I'm trying to love the parts of me that feel unlovable.
I'm trying to trust that I don't need to be more in order to be enough.
I'm trying to believe that love isn't something that I have to earn or audition for.
If you've ever felt like any of this, just know I see you.
I am there with you.
And I think, no, I know you are already lovable, even if you don't believe it yet.
So there you have it.
A few of my biggest insecurities and the ways that I'm learning to deal with them.
If there is one thing that I want you to take away from this episode, it's that you are not alone.
We all have insecurities, but they don't need to define us and they do not need to limit us.
We can learn from them. We can adapt to them and we can keep growing.
Thank you for listening and for sharing this time with me for this very vulnerable episode.
I would love to hear what you thought, if any of this resonated, what insecurities you're dealing with.
so please send me a DM or leave a comment on Spotify or YouTube.
Let's keep this conversation going.
And please, please share this episode more than any of my other ones even with anybody that you
think would benefit, anybody that you think might feel less alone if they hear it.
Sharing the show is so, so helpful.
It's helpful to the people that you're sharing with.
And it's also really helpful to us.
It helps us grow so that we can continue to create amazing content for you.
Before we go, I just want to give a really quick shout out to our brand partners.
When you use the discount codes that we share in these episodes, you're not only getting
amazing products at a lower price.
You are also directly supporting the show.
You can find a full list of our active codes at lizmoody.com slash codes.
And while you are here, make sure to hit that follow button on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or
on YouTube.
We drop new episodes every Monday and Wednesday.
And following ensures that you never miss one.
It is the easiest way to keep the inspiration.
and practical tips flowing straight into your feed.
If you want more behind the scenes info about how I am applying anything that we talk about
on the podcast to my real life, come hang out on Instagram.
I am at Liz Moody.
I share lots of fun, vulnerable, and actionable content that you will not hear anywhere else.
Okay, I love you.
I hope I won't regret this episode later.
And I will see you on the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast.
Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational
and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician,
a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. I'm genuinely confused how master
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