The Liz Moody Podcast - Om & The City’s Jules Acree—Productivity & Happiness Hacks, Financial Minimalism, and Easy Approaches To Sustainability

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

My guest today is Jules Acree. Jules is a wellness writer, entrepreneur, and video content creator behind Om & The City. It’s her daily mission to bring wellness down-to-earth and to help others simplify life to find more joy. She is also the founder of The Homebodies, an online shop for low-waste, intentional living. On this episode, we discuss: How to actually set—and stick to—boundaries that will transform your career and relationships What financial minimalism is, and how Jules implements it in her life The one thing people get wrong when they embark on a sustainable lifestyle Jules’ personal mental health journey, including how she’s overcome struggling with depression and anxiety Her go-to mental health tools for feeling good, energized, and productive every day Her morning routine Her experience in couples therapy Amazing relationship advice FROM her couples therapist And so much more! You can find Jules on Instagram at @omandthecity, and we’d both love to hear your reactions to this episode, so please screenshot and write any thoughts or questions that come up as you’re listening and tag us both (I’m @lizmoody). Enjoy! PS: My foodie preset pack is officially live. You can get all 8 presets, designed to make your food pics look as good as they taste, at lizmoody.com/presets. They’re on sale for 50% off for this week only!! PPS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy on Amazon or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! This episode is sponsored by Lifeway Foods, makers of America’s best-selling brand of kefir. Kefir has 12 different strains of live and active cultures and 25-30 billion Colony Forming Units (CFU), while the average yogurt can have anywhere from 1 to 5 strains with 6 billion CFU. Plus, it’s also up to 99% lactose-free. Lifeway Kefir comes in all sorts of delicious flavors, and they even have a dairy-free Plantiful line. Go to lifewaykefir.com and click “where to buy” to find a store that carries Lifeway near you! Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I am your host, Liz Moody, and I am a longtime journalist and cookbook author, and I am so excited to share today's guest, Jules A Cree, whom you might know as Om and the City. Jules has been on my radar since my full-time editorial days. I have long loved her balance, solution-oriented, accessible approach to wellness, which is really grounded in minimalism and sustainability. We talk a lot about minimalism in this episode. Jewel's practice is minimalism not only with physical spaces, but also digital minimalism and what she calls financial minimalism.

So I wanted to get all of her practical tips around that. We also talk about sustainability, including the one thing that she thinks a lot of people get wrong when they embark on a sustainable lifestyle. We talk about her mental health journey, which you know I love my mental health chat, including how she is overcome, struggling with depression and anxiety and her tools for feeling good, energized, and productive every single day. We also get into her relationship with her partner, Andrew. I love talking about this stuff with people. I perceive to have one of those dreamy couple goals relationships because I know that people think that about Zach and me. And I like to sort of lift up that curtain because guess what?

Nobody has as dreamy of a relationship as you see it as on Instagram. So Jules shared some amazing advice that she got in couples therapy and just like a real peek into what her relationship is really like, which was so on. honest and so lovely and so refreshing. This episode inspired me to really think about what I'm doing each day that feels good and how I can eliminate the elements that aren't serving me. Jules has such a pragmatic way of talking about actionably figuring out what elements of your life are serving you and which aren't. I'm definitely going to redefine my relationship with my phone after this chat and I'm going to reevaluate what boundaries I can set in my life. If you want to

inspired to set boundaries in your work, in your home, in your relationships. This episode is going to change your life. Seriously, if you do not come away setting a new boundary that serves you, I will be very, very surprised. You can find Jules on Instagram. She is at Alm and the City, O.M and the City, and we would both love to hear your thoughts on this episode. So screenshot and tag us both. I'm at Liz Moody and tell me your reactions. I would particularly love to know one boundary that you're committing to setting so that we can all help hold each other accountable and, you know, get healthier together. You can also find jewels at ominacity.com. And yeah. Oh, one last thing. I am so excited to announce that I finally launched my food-based preset pack. I am so excited

about this. They're essentially one-click settings that you can use to make all of your food photos look professional and bright and drool-worthy. They're perfect for people who just want to share, what they're gnaishing, with their family, you're on vacation, or they're also really great if you're an aspiring food blogger or if you're a lifestyle blogger who wants to share more food content on your Instagram. They're really, really, really easy to use and they make any photo look like it came straight out of a cookbook. And as a bonus, I also included my go-to preset for lifestyle photos, which makes you look as absolutely gorgeous as you are. I am running a mega sale right now to celebrate the launch. So definitely go check that out at Liz Moody.com slash presets. I hope you love

them. I'm really excited about this. I've been working on it for a really long time. So I cannot wait to hear what you think. Oh, wait, one one one final thing. We are literally eight reviews away from a thousand reviews on Apple Podcast. So if you love this podcast, I would so appreciate you popping over there and doing a quick rating and review. You can say your favorite guest, topics you love talking about or just be like, yay, great pod. Hooray. I am so, so grateful for every review and every one of you lovely people out there who is part of our little H.T. fam. All right. Enjoy this week's episode with Jules A. Kree from Amin the City. All right, Jules, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat. Thanks for having me. I was already telling

you that I just like, I wish everybody could see how I'm looking at you because it's everything's like white and pink and plants and gold and it's just so pretty and aesthetic. And I'm very jealous of your aesthetic in general. Have you always, you worked in fashion before you started your own brand. Were you like one of those kids where your room was immaculate and your outfits were immaculate and you were just like the chic little kid? No, no, no, not at all. My childhood bedroom was completely cluttered. I had like attachment to every little thing, sticker collections, posters, everything. And I didn't really get into, like, finding that space and, like, clutter-free life until I moved, well, until I was in New York and I had too much stuff happening because of blog world. And then I was like, this stressing me out and causing me anxiety.

And that's kind of how I realized, like, oh, my mental health is very much connected to how much clutter and junk is surrounding me. Oh, that's so interesting. I wanted to talk about minimalism down the road, but let's just get into it now because I do think. think minimalism is so fascinating and you make it seem less intimidating and more approachable. So can you tell me how stuff is connected to mental health and how you had that realization? Yeah. I think when you're, I don't know, say you're working at your desk and I used to have those paper sorters and just tons of different notebooks that I would never write in. And I just stored everything on my desk in sight. And it's one of those things you don't realize until you

clear through it. You know, I had to almost like, I worked actually with a professional declter, declutterer, professional organizer in New York, like when I was living in the 500 square foot apartment that I was telling you about. And she kind of like set the tone for that and told me, this sounds so simple, but it was very revolutionary for me. You know, if you have a toaster and you don't make toast every day and it's something you use like every other week, then why is it out on your counter. And I was like, whoa, I don't need to have my toaster displayed on my counter. Like, I didn't even think about that. So it was kind of like small little habits like that and realizing I don't need to have every item and trinket displayed. And when I was able to just like clear through all

that and only keep out the essentials, I realized how much more calm I felt and how more, more at peace I felt. What about so my struggle with minimalism, and I'm, I'm medium minimalist, I would say. Like, I'm not great, but I'm not terrible. And my struggle with it is that that feeling that you might want something down the road, especially with clothing when I want to get rid of it. I'm like, what if my style changes in two years and then I wasted this thing? Or what if I need this weird kitchen thing for a one weird recipe I'm going to make in six months? So how do you know what present you needs versus what future you needs? Yeah, and that's always a tough one. I actually wrote a blog post about that a couple years ago. I'm all about how to get rid of sentimental clutter

because a lot of times we associate memories and emotions with those things. And I don't even call myself a minimalist. I really think of it more as like everyone has their own threshold of what makes them feel good in their space. And to each person, that's like a different definition. So for me, like I enjoy plants and I enjoy art, but I'm not one of those people who enjoys trinkets, and I don't need objects that are like decorative. Those aren't things that I'm like attached to. But when it comes to like sentimental things like birthday cards and handwritten letters, like those are things that I really love. So I actually started taking pictures of them, storing them digitally. And so I have all those in a file. But then the really,

really special ones that I like to hold on to, I have it in a little box somewhere. So it's not really about like getting rid of everything. You really have to pick and choose like what actually is something that I'm going to look back on and be like, I'm glad I saved that for my future, whoever, my future kid, my future, you know, you don't want to just throw away things that you think that you might, if you have like a real emotional attachment to. But I would say like when it comes to clothing, I don't hold a lot of sentimental, you know, attachment to those things. You know, I like style and fashion, but I don't have like this t-shirt from sixth grade that I have to hold on to. Well, and I also think it can be like sometimes you save stuff for your kids or whatever and ends up being a burden. I think about my mother-in-law and she has so much stuff that's just been handed down through her family, like bed frames and paintings and stuff. And she feels like she's getting rid of her history if she gets rid of it.

But it also doesn't like necessarily fit perfectly into her life. So I think you making those decisions can sometimes be a kindness for future generations in its own way. Yeah. I've actually told my mom, I'm like, she's going through my childhood bedroom. And I told her, don't tell me what you're clearing through. Just clear through it. I'm sure I won't even remember what it was that I have. But when you start unearthing all these things and saying, Jules, remember this Beanie Baby collection? We went to McDonald's and got these toys that we collected and have all these little minis. And don't tell me about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, totally.

And if you don't remember it, like, I feel like that about we, when we left New York, we did a big storage box. And it's not huge. It's actually like the smallest U-Haul one. And we got rid of a lot of stuff. And we also had a 500 square foot apartment to start. But I feel like that about when you put stuff in storage, if you can't remember the thing you want to get out, you just shouldn't get it out.

Like, if it's not important enough for you to remember it, it probably wasn't important enough in the first place. Yeah. I think moving actually is like one of the best ways to realize how, little stuff we actually need. And like, yeah, it's great to save like those few things. But like, yeah, it's just one of those things that like Marie Oconda said, does it spark joy? It's a very real thing to sort three things. Totally. Is Andrew, is your husband interested in that same type of lifestyle or has it been a journey to get him on board? I mean, he's really simple. Like, he doesn't need much.

Like, he's definitely in like that tech world. So everything, I'd say he has more digital clutter than anything else. I look at his phone and like, holy cow, like, how do you find anything on here? It's just games, games, games, games, games, games, like tons of apps. And my phone has, like, two lines of, like, categorized folders. So we're very different in that respect. But I think we both agree that, like, we don't like having clutter and it's quicker for us to clean up. Like, it's just having less stuff means we have less problems and arguments because we're not arguing about those stupid things and like it's so much easier to put things back to where they belong because we don't have all that stuff displayed. It's literally our number one fight we have

is about me being like messy. I feel like we had if I wasn't messy, we would have the perfect relationship or I'm sure you find something else to fight about. But I do so digital minimalism I think is really interesting too. You had a TikTok about how to organize and minimalize is minimize or Minimize, minimize. Minimize your phone. And I'd never thought of that before. So can you talk us through that and like other ways that sort of you, I guess, minimize processes and things in your life that aren't just like stuff, physical stuff around you? Yeah, I think it all kind of boils down to boundary setting. And I'm really all about, you know, like simplifying things so that I can be more efficient with my time so I can spend more time like living and like having fun. and doing other things. I don't like wasting time on things that are taking longer than they should. And so since I'm on my phone for work a lot,

that's one of the first places that I like to keep pretty tidy. I mean, I'm not talking about the photo camera role. That thing needs to be cleaned out. But like the apps, you know, like usually when you try to access an app, you pull down on the screen and you search for it, right? Yep. So like what's the point of having them all in their individual apps placed on your screen? you can just categorize them into folders.

And then basically, like in that TikTok I talked about, when you download a new app, you leave it uncategorized for a couple weeks just to make sure you actually use it. And that way, you don't file it away and forget about it. So, yeah, I think it's like a simple, if you're looking at your phone every day, it's one of those things that it's really easy to take control and simplify that if you can. Do you have other boundaries around your phone because you do work in social media? Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's not like a perfect practice.

practice. Everyone kind of struggles with that, like give and take, work life. I don't even think work life balance is a thing, but like work life integration. But I think it's one of those things where you realize when you know what makes you feel better and have less anxiety and feel less stressed, you know usually the answer to what you need to do to feel better. And for me, it's like not being on my phone and like scrolling and checking emails and doing all these things constantly throughout the day. And so when I compare my days when I'm more on my phone versus days when I'm not on my phone and I have more of a time blocked schedule and I like have my to-do list written out, I like those days better. And so I want to like set myself up to

have more of those days. It doesn't mean that I consecutively five days out of the week work that way. But I know the tools that I need to do to like keep practicing that and try to keep showing up because I know I'm going to be happier for it. So there are a lot of tools, though. Like some people are like, time blocking work. Some people are like, just say three things you need to do every day. It seems like you're the master of routines and solutions to things. And you've kind of like really integrated productivity into your life.

So how did you know, did you try out all the different routines and practices? How did you know what worked for you? And then which ones have really worked and made a huge impact? Yeah. I mean, there's so many resources out there on the internet. I feel like I'm just one of those people who likes to experiment with different things. So like the Pomodoro method where you set a timer for 20 minutes and then theme days and task batching.

I don't know who originally came up with that, but I'm sure I've learned that somewhere on YouTube over the years. And I just kind of started experimenting and figuring out like what works best for me. And what really, really has stuck is the themed work days. Like that makes just so much sense for me. people who make their own schedule and work from home or are self-employed. Like, that's just a great way to have your brain focus on your creative tasks altogether versus writing and being in that creative zone and then stopping to take a call with your

accountant. It's just, like, the ultimate, like, break of focus for me. So how does that work? Like, do you do all of your Instagram content, like, even sitting down and writing your captions on one day? or like how does a themed work day actually look in practice? So for me, each week's a little different. But for example, like this week, Tuesdays and Thursdays are usually like my meeting days.

So Tuesdays and Thursdays between two to four, I have those blocked out on my calendar as like if I'm having a call or meeting with someone, those are, that's the time block. And I try not to take meetings any other time than that. Obviously, things come up. But for the most part, those are like my meeting days and times. And then Mondays and Wednesdays are the days where I'm filming, creating content. Obviously, when you're creative, like, you have to kind of go with the flow with that. But for the most part, like, I'm trying to plan ahead with, like, things that I want to talk about or create or film. And so I'll film all those things at once.

And then, like, Tuesdays and Thursdays earlier in the day, it's more like, I'm in my PJs. I'm in my yoga pants. And I'm in the weeds on my computer, like, actually knocking those things out, not worrying about, like, being on camera or anything like that. Interesting. And on those days, so I've tried to do a similar thing. And then I feel like on those days, I don't film as much like on Instagram stories. Like, it's hard with social because you feel like you have to produce constantly. And if I'm like, I was just on my computer all day, I have nothing to talk about. Is there a way you integrate that? I think I've just stopped like, I kind of let go of the pressure of like constantly showing up

on Instagram because there's TikTok, there's YouTube, there's just so many platforms to keep up with. And I learned that, like, you know, I'm actually enjoying vlogging more for YouTube. And if I'm vlogging, I'm probably not on stories that day because I'm focusing on that. And like, I like stories because you can just kind of show up or ask a question or engage in some way. And it's more raw and it's unplanned. But I don't really like rack my brain for like, what am I going to say on stories today? You know, it's one of those things that's like, if I ask me to say, I'll say it, but other than that, I've got other things to do.

Do you feel pressure to keep growing or do you compare yourself to other creators or do you pay attention a lot to the numbers? How do you deal with that whole side of the business? I think when I was first starting out, I definitely cared about growth and numbers and metrics and things like that. But then as I, it's actually, I remember the exact turning point for me was when I left New York and moved to Austin. It's like I became at peace with like, so basically like when I was living in New York and this, I love New York. I think it's an amazing city and I'm so glad that I live there. But I think I didn't really appreciate all the things that I was experienced in living. And when I look back my Instagram feed and see all the things that I did and went and travel and

experience, I was like, wow, during that time, I don't even think it registered with me. how awesome this is. And I'm looking back like a year later. And I'm like, I don't really know how present I was for that and how much I was constantly in the go, go, go, go, what's next? How can I grow? How can I reach more people? Instead of just being proud of what I've created. So when I moved to Austin, I feel like I was getting more centered with what I actually need to be happy. And like, it's not wrapped up in the metrics at all. What do you need to be happy? I want freedom of time. I want freedom to, like, create what's on my mind. I just want people to enjoy the things that I put out there. And I think once I stopped focusing so much on numbers, I wouldn't say I was, like,

one of those people that constantly just, like, obsessed with numbers. Like, I'm a Libra. I'm pretty balanced about things. But I do think, like, I didn't really appreciate all the things I was doing because I was constantly looking forward. And I am very much like a planner. And I like to be organized and know what's going, what's happening next. But once they started to like sit back and think, wow, there's nothing wrong with coasting. You don't always have to be doing something, creating something, launching something. I actually am enjoying coasting right now. I'm enjoying saving for my house. I'm enjoying playing with my dogs, going out in nature and just like using Instagram as a tool to share my life, share what I know, engage with people that already follow me, that are already

like a great community, how can I provide them value? Like stop focusing on and trying to reach more people when you're when you need to talk to the people that are already there for you. And so I think I'm just like enjoying creating again. And that's what makes me happy. That's so interesting. I think that the coasting thing applies probably outside of just solo entrepreneurs or people on their business, but there is this pervasive attitude, at least in America, which is where I live in the U.S., that you, If you're not growing, you're like almost retreating. Like it's like the idea of staying stable and comfortable and enjoying where you're at feels very foreign to the world that we live in.

And it almost feels radical for you to lean into that. Yeah, I had a conversation with my neighbor. We were out on paddle boards and we are talking about, you know, what are we working for? What do we want money for? What do we want to work? What are you trying to afford, you know, because you work because you work. because you need to get paid to pay your bills, live your life. Yeah.

But what is all that hustle for? And so there's nothing wrong with hustling. Like I definitely enjoy my sprints, you know? And like there's times where I'm like riding the waves. But you don't have to be in hustle mode 24-7 and it's also not sustainable. For me, it's like I'm learning when I'm in like those up hills and I'm like, I'm feeling inspired and feeling creative. Go for it. Do all the things you want to do.

And then when you're starting to not feel that way, don't force yourself. You know, just it's okay to like relax. You don't need to think that everything's going to disappear if you're not constantly producing something. And there's a lot you can learn when you do sit back and coast and absorb and just like try to get more aligned and attuned to like what you're excited about doing. What's something that you've learned in one of your coasting periods? Simplifying.

I remember moving to Austin. That's kind of when I, it was like I was moving across the country and I was unpacking my things and I felt like it was a fresh start. And I was trying to ask myself, like, what am I really passionate about? And what is something that really changed my life? And for me, it was like learning how to clutter my physical space, declutter my mental space, simplify my schedule, set my boundaries. those are all things that like have time and time again shown up in my life to really be really awesome for my mental health for my relationships around me and that's when I kind of figured all that out when I was moving to Austin because I was able to put it into practice and see how

it affected my life. I wrote an Instagram post recently that resonated with a lot of people about sort of how we can do all of these wellness practices. You can do yoga, meditate, eat well, all of that, but if you have this core thing in your life that feels wrong, you're sort of filling up a leaky bucket. And you need to patch that bucket before you just add more green smoothies on top of it. And for me, patching that bucket was very much leaving New York, getting more in touch with nature. And I'm wondering hearing you talk about your move to Austin if that was the same for you and what was the impetus to move to Austin? And how much you think where you live impacts your ability,

your ability and sort of the universal use ability to be the person you are, live the life you want to live? Yeah, I think the draw for me in Austin was that I wanted to be closer to nature. And I wanted to be by, wanted to have more access to like lakes and trails and I needed warm weather. I get seasonal depression and it's so, so hard.

And I didn't realize like the toll it would really take on me year after year until I started living with Andrew. And Andrew was the one who was like, wow, you're so different in the winter. You curl up in a ball and you cry and you're so sad and like you don't even know why. And I'm like, that's what happens to me. Every winter in New York, I kind of felt like I was living in a constant gloomy winter's date. And then when it was summertime, I started. to getting FOMO because I was afraid of summer ending. So it was just like, summer's not long enough. It's too cold. It gets dark really early. And when I was working nine to five, I remember

going to work when it was dark, leaving when it was dark. And I never got to see sunshine. So Austin was like a long time dream of mine because every time I'd come down to Houston or Dallas citizen family, we would stop in Austin. And it just felt like home. It was the only other place besides New York that felt like home. So I love it. Are you from Texas? I'm from Kentucky, but my grandparents and all of my mom's side of the family, the Korean side, they're all in Texas. I have family in Colorado, too. So did your grandparents come from Korea and then was your mom born here? Yeah. So my grandpa was from north and my grandma was from south. Oh. And yeah. I wrote a paper on it. Kind of crazy story.

Can we get an abridged version? Because I'm so fascinated by that entire dynamic. Yes. Long story short, when he was like really young, like I want to say like 13 or something, him and his sister, who is younger than him, they met this guy who could like take them across the border at night and they had to like leave their family behind and pack their bags and they paid cash for him to guide them. And the first time they did it, they got caught, but it wasn't like they shot you right on the spot. I think now it's probably different. Yeah. Okay. But like back then, like his sister got arrested and like they captured her and he just kind of kept running. But then he like went back to look for her and they let her go.

And yeah, they got a second chance. But they like spent all their money just for that first guide. And so they had to go back, make money. make money again so they could pay the guide to like take them back again. So anyways, yeah, he crossed, made it in and then met my grandma in Texas. No, no, no. He met her in South Korea and then they ended up moving to Texas because they wanted to go to UT and there's all these opportunities in America and then they raised their family in Houston. Was the general impetus, does he talk about like life in North Korea? Yeah, I mean, he was so young.

So I have, like, recordings of him talking about this. My grandparents both passed away last year within, like, 36 hours of each other. And so, like, looking back, I wish. Like the notebook? Yeah. It was unexpected that they would do that together, but it was kind of sweet, too, because they never had to, like, live without each other. Be without each other.

Yeah. That's interesting. And you've talked a little bit about how your sort of Korean heritage is integrated in your life, you'll like point out an object and be like, this is something I got for my grandma or something like that. Can you? I also, I did a series back when I was a journalist full time that was like different wellness practices around the world that I loved hearing about. Do you have sort of Korean wellness practices that you've integrated into your life? I don't. Like I really feel like, I wish I could go back. And it's not, I can't live with regrets. But there's so much of me that

really suppressed my Korean side when I lived in Kentucky and just growing up. Like I very much felt like I was either too white or too Asian and I would try to like change how I acted depending on who I was hanging out with. And I didn't realize like how much I was missing out on back then as a kid who just wanted to fit in at school and not be made fun of or certain things. So I really just like pretended like I was just white. And I really wish that I asked my grandparents, more questions and like, you know, recorded more of those conversations and talk to them or wasn't trying so hard to, like, not be Korean. But now that I'm older, I love learning from my mom, like things that she experienced as a kid. And I see a lot of overlaps. I'm watching a lot

of Korean dramas right now. And I feel like it's kind of feel good thing for me right now because I noticed like unintentionally when quarantine happened, I started craving Korean. Korean food nonstop. And all I wanted was to make Korean food. And I think that was just my pocket of comfort because my mom would make Korean food. And that was just like what made me feel happy. So now I've just been kind of like, I want to learn Korean on duolingo, watching Korean dramas. My mom and I are always sending TikTok videos back and forth of Korean dramas. She like loves like all the guys that are in it. They're so cute. I'm just impressed that your mom can use TikTok. I've tried to show it to both of my parents and they're just like, I'm not, don't even get, like,

they just learned how to watch my Instagram stories, which for better or worse. Now they're like, oh, I see it. 2 p.m. You are here. And I'm like, oh, my God, like, stop. Yeah. My mom's on it a lot. She'll be like texting me and then she'll Facebook message me something and then TikTok message me something and Instagram message me. I'm like, ah, I can't. Was there a point in your life where you felt like you were able to integrate your Irish and your Korean side and sort of be like, this is who I am and I like who I am? Yeah, I think, honestly, I think moving to New York, it made me embrace that more because it's so diverse and there's so many cultures and I realize, you know, the thing that I tried

to suppress actually is what makes me unique and I should embrace that. And, you know, like, when if people come up to me and say like, what are you? Like, I shouldn't be offended. I should just understand that they're really just trying to ask. what's your heritage? What's your ethnicity? And so, like, I try not to, like, meet those types of questions with judgment or anything like that. It's really just people trying to learn, and they just don't know the right way to phrase it. So, yeah. Do you feel like being half Korean has impacted you as you've tried to make your own brand and sort of being an influencer

and in that space? Yeah. I mean, I definitely remember, you know, looking through, like, yoga journal and, like, magazines, well, those magazines I would get and thinking, like, and I wish, like, I saw more people that looked more like me. Like, I don't see it very often. And I don't know. It was one of those things that, like, you don't really process because it's just something you're used to, like, living in. But I think I've kind of now, like, living in 2020, there's so much that's come to light,

things that, like, we're just autopilot and not even, like, aware of that we're, like, learning. But I do remember, you know, like, growing up, there were things that, like, I either felt like, oh, because I used to do some acting. And I was like, oh, I'm, I'm the Asian person in this cast. Like, I see they got the Hispanic. They have the black person. They have the Asian person.

Like, that's me. And, you know, I hope that like this year has gotten attention, has gotten some brand's attention to finally start to diversify, you know, the types of faces that we see in media and in print and online. online and all that because it's really, representation is super important. Have you seen that TikTok where there's the guy auditioning and they're like, do an Indian accent? And he like does a normal accent. And they're like, no, no, do like how your dad would talk. And he's like, oh, yeah, well, I eat these chips. And they're like, no, no, sound like the guy

from the Simpsons. And he's like, oh, you want like a stereotypical Indian accent. I got it. Yeah. I think media is so influential. and the tiny, you know, the side character and the Simpsons influenced so many people thought that type of person would look or sound or act like. And I think I'm so glad that we're having these conversations about how much every little detail like does sort of matter, you know? Yeah, totally. You mentioned seasonal effective disorder. And then on your blog, you talk about sort of the inception of your blogging journey as being dealing with depression and an eating disorder. was the depression you're referring to the seasonal one or did you have sort of a larger mental health

struggle at that time? It was definitely a larger struggle back then and it was something I went to therapy for for years. I think, you know, depression and anxiety, they're kind of like sticking together and feed off each other. And the eating disorder, you know, was just something that I struggle with from like high school going into college. And so it was just kind of like, like a really tough time going through that, but like starting my blog with something that made me feel happy and felt like I could express myself. And writing was always a way that I would express myself, whether it's just short creative writing or writing poems or songs. Like I just enjoy, that's just one way to get thoughts out of my brain and onto paper. But the seasonal, I think like I

really did like find a piece with that side of me. Like I think I'm one of those people. who like kind of leans towards like feeling depressed more than like say my husband who like hasn't ever experienced things like that. I'm very sensitive to the environment around me and like I really kind of mirror other people's energy too and like without realizing it. If somebody I'm hanging out with is having a down day, then I start also feeling that as well. And it's one of those things that I wasn't really sure how to deal with, but like now I feel like I can acknowledge it and recognize it and be like, oh, okay, I'm feeling like that, but it's going to pass. I'm not back to like feeling depressed for like two weeks at a time, like where I'm bedridden. I can't get out of bed and I cancel

my plans and like it's not the way it used to be. So I definitely feel like I have overcome that hurdle in my life and I'm in a really good place now. But seasonal effective disorder is just purely like weather affecting my mood like it's just it's just one of those things that I deal with. Is there anything that you now would say to you then where you were like I don't want to get out of bed for two weeks everything's terrible that you feel like would have been helpful? For me, I'm a journaler. Like when I have something on my heart, I write it out. And I think it really helps me to just kind of like write things without thinking about how it sounds or how it looks and just like just work through it on paper. But then like I also like to think of like gratitude.

Like what are things like are actually really good? Because I think it's easy to, you know, like when you have something bad going on or something tough in your life, you tend to like or I tend to be a tornado where I think of like everything's wrong. Everything's bad. And like I just like swoop it all in. And like, I can't seem to like look past the clouds and remember like, wait, actually yesterday was great. And this is great. And this person's great. This person showed me kindness.

Someone said something nice to me. Like I need to like take a step back and write out all those things reminding myself that it's okay to feel those feelings. We are so human and we can ebb and flow through those emotions. Not trying to like the best thing for me is to like not try to push it away and say like, you shouldn't feel like this. stop, stop worrying about it because growing up, I heard that all the time. Like, you're sad. Don't be sad. Oh, you're upset. Like, why are you upset? Like, that resonate with me. And most people,

I feel like it's saying, you know, oh, you're feeling sad. Like, let's dive in. Like, what are you feeling sad about? And how, what do you think you can do to make yourself feel a little bit better? And sometimes the answer is just sitting on the couch and watching K-dramas and not talking to anybody. And other times, it's like Andrew recognized. hey, let's go outside, let's get some sunshine, let's do something active, because you always feel much better after you do that. So I think also having people in your life who know you better than you know yourself sometimes to like give you that extra nudge being like, you're fighting me on this now, but I know once we do this, you're going to feel so much better. Yeah, I've given Zach permission

to, I get in a mode sometimes in the morning where I pick up my phone first thing and then I like scroll and then I won't get out of bed and then I berate myself for not starting my day productively and then it just cycles. So I've given Zach permission to physically drag me from bed in the morning. And it's fun for him because he gets to torture me a little bit with permission. And then it's like really helpful for me because I've physically just gotten out of my bed space. And I interviewed another woman, Tara Schuster on the podcast and she has friends

that she literally has preemptively had a conversation with about like, I might text you when I'm feeling depressed. These are the kind of things that I need to hear or she knows that they'll say the right thing. And I think that having those people in your life who you're open with about what you do need and letting them serve that role is so important. Yeah, I think especially now more than ever, staying in touch with your community and your friends as much as possible is important because this is a very isolating time. And for people who are already introverts like me, it's one of those things that I have to

remind myself, like, reach out to that person, like, engage with them, like, every week and ask them how they're doing. Like, let's talk on the phone. Let's FaceTime. Because it's so easy for me to go weeks without seeing anybody. And I don't think twice about it because I'm, like, doing my thing. I got Andrew, got the dogs. I have to, like, mentally remind myself, oh, you haven't seen your girlfriends in a while, like, even on a screen. So you probably should, like, do that. This episode is sponsored by LifeWay Foods, Makers of America's best-selling brand of Keffier. If you're unfamiliar with Kefir, it's a probiotic-rich drink high in protein, calcium, and vitamin D. It has a tart and tangy flavor and is incredibly addictive. You'll feel real gut health

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All right. Now let's get back to the episode. How has the pandemic been for your mental health? It seems like you have a lot of like tools in place to get it from where it was to where it is now. But did this huge worldwide event mess with that in any way? I mean, I feel like everyone has felt some emotion. Like everyone should feel some sort of unless you're a robot. Yeah.

It's impacted me in waves. It's one of those things where like, I think in the beginning, we all kind of like, oh, weird. Like, we're all home and it's kind of nice, like kind of nice seeing your partner every day. Like Andrew normally is just out at work downtown. And I enjoy it, like having him home. I still enjoy having him home. And it's made me realize I want you home all the time. Like, it's, I get very lonely working from home. And I realize like how isolating a digital job can be sometimes when you're not in an office with coworkers and you don't get to collaborate in that way. And so, like, I missed that connection. But, yeah, like, I went in waves of, like, I am not sure what the future holds. I'm scared of Andrew losing his job. I'm scared of me losing

my job. Like, what's the ripple effect of the economy? Like, all those thoughts have come up for me and for other people, too. But I will say, like, overall, I feel very grateful because none of those things that I worried about have happened yet. They don't seem like they're going to be happening. at this point in time, but I'm staying humble because you just never know what's going to happen. But all in all, I think I'm pretty equipped. Like, I couldn't imagine not having my dogs or an animal in this situation. You know, we live in a house that I love and a neighborhood that I love. Like, I'm an introvert.

Like, I'm pretty good at, like, being by myself. So, like, I think overall, like, we're doing well. But for sure, like, it does take a toll on your. mental health because you realize there's no like end in sight and to not have that answer is hard for people, especially if people like me who like to plan. So I think uncertainty can be really triggering for mental health in general. And I think people who especially struggle with things like anxiety often become planners so they can exert that control. So I think the global uncertainty is certainly tricky. That's hard for me. What do you do? You said that like,

Like one part of it that's hard is like not knowing what's happening with your job or the economy or anything like that. And I recently, I was full time in editorial tell like a year. It's like roughly a year. And the heart, I love it. I think it's so fun to have my own brand. I've been able to devote so much creative energy to it that I didn't have when I was writing full time. But the hardest part about it for me is the uncertainty. The idea that I can have like a really good financial month. and then the next month I can make no money. And then I don't know when the next contract is coming in. And as somebody who has been doing this, you've been doing this full time since 2018?

I think it's been either three or four years. Because I could look on LinkedIn and check my professional history. It's so impressive, though, I think. So I'm curious to know how you deal with that element in your business. I feel like I've been doing this. long enough where like I'm in a groove and you know how like you don't usually get paid for like 60 to 90 days anyway so there's like that overlap I feel like I've knock on wood I've like consistently gotten jobs ever since I like went full time like I've consistently like kept up with you know I've

never been a month where I'm like oh no I'm worried like it's it's just been like a good constant flow and I don't really know how I'll explain it except thank you universe I don't know it just feels good I haven't had to worry about that. But I think also having like that net 16, net 90 day, like, it's not like if you, you'll know if like work is slowing down and like one month's going to be less, you'll see that coming. And it's not going to be like a big surprise because like if you're tracking things and you kind of know like when things are going to come in.

And do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. I mean, is that one of the ways, like how much do you feel like you're in control of your own financial destiny, period, right now? That's a good question. I was just talking to my neighbor about this. We got coffee this morning. I feel like I, as much as I'm a planner, I'm also not afraid of like risks.

And it's one of those things where like it doesn't even like, I don't even think twice about like going after something that I'm really excited to go after. So, like, starting my shop, I didn't think very long on it. I was like, yeah, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it right now. And that's how I was with starting my blog. And that's how I was with quitting my job. I was like, I have savings.

Let's do this. Let's just see what happens. And I guess there's, and there's a lot of privilege in being able to do that too, because I know that if something went south, I will never end up on the street. So I do recognize, like, it's a privilege to be able to make those choices and to live that way. But, yeah, I think it's one of those things that I don't, When it comes to my career in terms of like making decisions like that, I don't feel like I overthinking. I kind of just like fly by the seat of my pants and just go, go forward and see what

happens. Do you think in general if somebody has like a side hustle that they love or a project that's been like sort of percolating in their brain that they should just go for it, try it out, see what happened. Like go hard and fail quickly if there's a failure to be had. I'm all for starting before you're ready. Because like we're. We're constantly psyching ourselves up for like, oh, I got to have all my ducks in a row. I have to like have this prepared and this prepare. I think it's, there's one thing to be smart about it. Like, you know, have a plan in your head saying like, okay, if I start this thing, where do I hope to see it go in three months, five months a year?

But you don't even have like this big old business plan. Like, I mean, don't take business advice for me. But for me, I didn't have a business plan for my blog. It was just I started a blog because I like to write. And I didn't know. I was going to become my full-time job. You know, it was one of those things I just started with a passion for writing and sharing and talking about those things.

But, you know, when I decided to quit my job, I did, I did have a savings. And I did already have, like, clients they took on to overlap, you know, like, that what I, okay, basically, I, let me go back in time a little bit. So when I quit my job, I already had people reaching out to me who wanted. me to help them with social media strategy and content creation, like outside of Omen, the City stuff. And so I knew that I was going to at least have X amount of income per month, so I'm going to lock in that client. So I just felt like I had this, like, safety net because, like, I did have a savings if this client was to back out. But I already have this client,

and I have a second client, that one's working me. So if I have those two clients, then I can, like, I can replace my nine if I've income already. And because I was severely. underpaid so it wasn't easy to it wasn't that hard to do that so um basically yeah it's just one of those things where i think it's okay to trust that if you don't have a plan B it's almost like you're creating a fail plan before you've even given yourself a chance to even go for something so i don't really always believe in like focusing so much on well what's my plan B if this all like goes south it's like why don't you like give it your all do as much as you can can, but be smart about it, know that, like, what are your basic costs, your rent, your

utility? Like, what do you absolutely need each month to survive in New York City? And so I knew that number and I knew that like, okay, I've got that covered with this client. So, you know, being smart about it, but also not getting too hung up in these nitty-grated details. It's one of those things like, when you jump, you fly and just have that parachute and see what happens. Okay, I have two questions about that. One, when you're doing something that you haven't done before, like you're, you just launched your shop, which is so exciting. Congratulations, by the way. But when you're starting something new, what are the first steps? Like, are you literally Googling, like, how to start a shop? Like, how do you sort of get a new project like that off the ground? Um, I did a lot of research. It was just something that, like, I've always been curious to do. And I was always, I've always wanted to, like, have a physical product in my hand that I could, like, give to somebody, you know, and like everything online is so digital and I just always, I was just

kind of craving that like physical product that I wanted to hold. And yeah, it is always like, it was circulating in my head and I never really thought it would happen this year, but 2020 with a curve ball. And I realized just how much like creating a feel good space is and how you don't have to have like a house that necessarily looks like mine. Like you can create your own feel good space. And all that comes down to is being intentional about the clutter in your home and being more intentional with like your purchases moving forward. Because I've replaced, I buy so much less than I ever used to. Like my wardrobe is so much smaller than it ever has been in my entire life. So like everything I have now, I just have, I'm living more in like blank space. And it feels good

to have that space. And so yeah, the shop was just something that I was really excited. about diving into and I actually saw on TikTok. Gotta love that platform. It was a TikTok about like online shops and like different like resources for people who want to start shops. And I was like, is this a sign? Should I like look into this? And yeah, it happened really quickly.

It was like one week I was like, let's let's just do it. Let's see what happens. And the next week I had a domain and I was going for it. And so like you went into that TikTok. I'm just curious if somebody was like, I want to start a shop, would they Google whatever that TikTok led you to of like resources to start a shop? Like is do you find that that information that you need to try something that is totally new is pretty much out on the internet if you search for it? Oh yeah. I feel like there's so much information on the internet.

Like anything we want to build or create, someone's done it already and like can hopefully have resources to pave the way for you too. And like, yeah, there's so many different articles and resources. is there's so much at our disposal here. And I feel like that's one of the really awesome things about living in today's world. Yeah. Technology. It's like anything you want to start, create, learn about, it's on the internet somewhere. And then there's courses too that you can pay for. So, but for starting and all. Yeah. I did that when I wrote my first book. I literally Googled like how to write a cookbook proposal. I found a cookbook proposal that I wanted to like copy the style of and that was my first proposal. Like, it is crazy that if you or like how to get an agent.

Like you can literally ask the internet anything and it'll tell you and that's insane. And I feel like people almost forget that that resource is there in that way sometimes, you know. Yeah, totally. And I think it just takes like if you really are excited about something like the information's out there. I think a lot of times we can talk ourselves out of doing things because of not having enough time or I don't know how. I don't know how to get started. Like, anyone who tells me they don't know how to get started on something, I don't believe you because I feel like a lot of us can figure it out with a little Google search. And it's just a matter of digging and taking notes and asking people. What if people tell you they don't have enough time?

I think a lot of people, do you have like a minimalism approach to your time? Or how do you think about that problem? Someone who doesn't have kids, as people on the internet like to remind me that I don't have kids. and that's why I'm organized, but I beg to differ. But anyways, as someone who is, you know, doesn't have kids, I have my husband, you know, like, for me, it's a matter of, like, is it a priority? If I, I don't really prescribe to the thought that, like, I don't have time. It's like, that's not a priority to me right now, so I'm not going to do it.

And there's things that, you know, come up that you have to do, like family things. Family always comes first. Like, if my family needs something, I do it. I don't delay. Like, I have to help them. Or, you know, like, there's things that pop up in your life that you, like, have to do, and that's your duty. You have to do them. But there's other things that are, like, not a priority, but are taking your time from you. And they're draining your time. And I feel like a lot of us, if we have time to, like, scroll on social and feel depressed about it and we have time to, like, you know, beat up on ourselves about things because

of things we're reading online, then we probably have time to, like, also put that away and try to refocus the energy and the things that are going to make us happier. So, do you have any way you actually do that? Because I'm so guilty of just like, like I said in the morning, it's like, I'll lay there, scroll on social, feel depressed. And I'll be like, get up, Liz. Get up. Get up. Get up. And I just like, like, won't get up. You know what I mean? It is so addictive. And so it gets its hooks into you. And is there is, are you like, picturing your future happier self? Like, is there a mental trick I can do to just put my freaking phone down?

I charge my phone across the room. Like, I feel like that is just the key. Get it out of my way. Because if I have it charging on my nightstand, then of course I'm going to, like, wake up. I'm going to look at it. And then one thing leaves the next and you're on all your little apps. But for me, I charge it across the room. And I set my alarm with my Alexa.

I was waiting for it to, like, go off. I set my alarm at that, so I don't have to touch anything. I just say, like, Alexis, stop, and I'm awake. And then I go through my routine. So I think it's just a physical thing. It's like, you just got to physically get it out of your reach. And then distance to yourself, yeah. Yeah.

And for Andrew and I, we both are like, let's not scroll in bed. Like, let's just not. Yeah. I think that is true. I was reading a book about habits that was talking about how, like, we, as humans, we just have terrible willpower and like expecting ourselves to get into. to have that willpower is just not fair in setting ourselves up for failure versus just completely separating ourselves from the thing that's testing that, which I think is that rang true for me very

much. My second question was, you talk about sort of having a financial plan and like not too much of one, but just knowing you'll be safe financially. And I'm curious in general how much finances and money motivates you and how much that sort of drives your decisions that you're making in your brand in your life. Yeah, it's obviously like I have goals that I had set for myself like on a personal level of things that I want to be able to afford in the future. So like I have me and Andrew every Friday we like sit down and like go through our finances together like such a type A thing to do. But I feel really good about those conversations because we have a lot of transparency around like our goals for the future. But actually it's so interesting because I think it was

2019. I feel like I've jumped in time. Like I feel so much older now this year than last year. So like, I think it's 2019, but I had like my strongest financial year in like, I think it was, I don't even remember. It was like 28th year and 2019. Had like a crazy good financial year. And I was like, wow, that's insane. But am I any happier now than I was like before or, you know, in retrospect? And I'm learning that like, so there's one thing that I created in 20, I think it was 2019, that I did because people kept asking for it on social media. They said, hey, I want to know how you grow your brand. And so I was like, okay, I'll start a mentorship program where I can teach mindful entrepreneurs how to build their brands and, you know, like find their voice and storytelling. And it's not a topic that I was ever passionate about.

And I'm not. I'm still not. That was my learning. Went ahead and, like, created this whole course because I was like, you know what? The people who make the most money are the people who teach you how to make money. And I knew that, like, people would buy this thing because I have the knowledge to share with them. I basically wrote down the last seven years of my life and what I did, what I learned, and then I created a course from all the things that I learned. And so it was really valuable content.

But what I learned for that process, even though it made really good, money and I did two rounds of it and I could have definitely kept going and continue to like make a lot of profit. I learned that like my heart's not in this. I don't enjoy talking about these things. Like yes, I know about branding. Yes, I know about how to reach your ideal audience. I know about those things. But I don't like teaching it. I don't enjoy talking about it. I'd much rather talk to you about decluttering your services and morning rituals and things like that. And so I stopped doing it. Even though it was a great money driver, I stopped doing it. And I'm focusing on the things that I'm actually excited about. So I'd say, like, no, money is not like the number one driver for me.

Like I didn't start my store, the homebodies, to make money because I'll tell you, it is a labor intensive project. And it is not a big moneymaker. But it's something that I really enjoyed doing, even though physically packing up hundreds of boxes is time sucking as heck on your own, it's just fulfilling for me. So there's going to be some things that I do in my career that are like, I just really love this and I want to try it. Even though I get paid way more doing this, I'm just learning that like I need to do more of things that I love and not try to like

justify like, oh, I should spend more time doing this instead because it'll be better financially. So I feel lucky. I feel good with where we're at. Like if I could somehow, someone told me, like, you'll always make around this money and no more, no less, I'd be like, okay, cool. But obviously, like, that's not promised to anybody. So I'm just finding like a sense of contentment right now in doing what I'm doing. I love the idea of your financial meetings too. Zach and I used to do those and then they just sort of like fell away. I think because during the pandemic, my brand partnership slowed down so much and then the financial meetings got depressing and I was just like, I don't want to do this anymore. But it made me feel really like just to have everything out there.

I want to talk about your relationship with Andrew briefly because it seems like such couple goals and I don't want you to badmouth him in any way. But I do think that there can be this perception. I know people get it with me and Zach that like, oh, they're perfect, their life is perfect. I'm never going to have a relationship like that. And I read that you guys had gone to couples therapy together. So I would love for you to talk about that. I would love for you to just talk about like your real relationship, you know? Yeah. Well, one thing I will say is like, I really hope people can remember that like everything is curated. And sometimes it's not intentional. It's like when you fight with your partner is your first instinct to like pick up your phone and

talk to your community about it. It's like probably not. And it's not because you don't want to share this part through your life is just because you're you're in your own life you're experiencing those things and you're dealing with them well and it can be disrespect like Zach doesn't want me you know detailing every fight we have to my audience that doesn't make him feel good as a person who hasn't chosen this career too so I think there's that element as well and it's also similar to like if I fight with Andrew I don't call my mom and tell her those fights like when we are dating I used to do that. I would, anytime something would happen, I would call my friend Margo. And so every time I talked to her, she only heard the times that we fought. And she didn't actually get to hear all the times that

things were great because I didn't call her when things were great. I would only call her when things were bad. And so I learned that. And so with my mom too, like, you know, moms are like hold on to that anger for their child. They're like, oh, he did that. Then like she's like remembering it. And like, So I told myself, like, don't talk to people about those issues because, well, you can, like, but in moderation, like, be careful about how many times you're reaching out those people just to talk about the bad things because you may, like, be creating this different illusion of this person that, like, you didn't intend to create. So I am really grateful that Andrew and I talk things out. And, like, for him, like, I like to have, like, long conversations, like, right before falling asleep. And he's like, I'm about to sleep. And then I'm thinking of like, why you start really are.

And it really hurt my feelings. And then I just start like, pulling it apart. And he's like, what's happening? It's like a scene in a sitcom where he's just like, let me go to bed, please. Yeah. I mean, I think we fight like any other couple. And it's usually around clueliness or is around like miscommunism. communication or like I don't know if you you and Zach ever deal with this but like sometimes like

we'll say something and we have no ill intention but that person will like take it a different way and like be defensive and you're like whoa why are you so mad like what just happened like well you said this like what how did this happen like how is this like and we're both like not understanding what's going on and like neither of you like had the intention of it being perceived in that way. So a lot of it's just like a miscommunication. And sometimes they feel like we're on parallel planes and we're just like not getting each other. So I think the most important thing for us is learning how to discuss things and not like react. You know, like I come from a family that like yells and when they're upset like their voice gets loud. And even if they're not like necessarily

yelling at you, they just talk really loud and get really like amped up. And then the energy just it's like really heightened and everyone's just like, why are we yelling? I tend to be that way too sometimes. Like I can get excited about a topic and I'm like really passionate about it. I'm talking about it really loudly and he's like, why are you screaming? I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. Like this is just how I talk. So I think a lot of it's just like learning each other and understanding like I am not trying to like, I'm not out to get you, Andrew, and you're not out to get me. So if we can both, like, come to terms that, like, we love each other and we want the best for each other. And, like, how can we, like, come to this agreement or compromise? How can we compromise on this? But

going back to therapy, yes, we learned in therapy that there are two truth and that's my truth and his truth. And they're both valid. And we can't say things like, no, no, no, no. And we're no, that's not true that didn't happen. Like, because if someone's perceiving a situation in one way, like, that's how they perceived it and that is their truth. So rather than trying to like negate or defend things that happen, we've learned to like, okay, I hear that you are upset about that and I hear that like I hurt your feelings with how I, I'm trying to think of like the last argument we had.

But it's usually around like a disregard of feelings without intentionally realizing you or disregarding the person's feelings if that makes any sense. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like so many people, at least who I've talked to in my life, wish they could go to couples therapy with their partner, but they feel like particularly often the man in the relationship thinks it's lame or thinks they don't need it or thinks it means that you're really messed up and like

about to break up if you need, you're like damaged in some way. So how did you guys get on board with the idea? of it. Andrew's just like a really great guy and he is always open to hearing what I wanted like talk about or do. Like I love talking things out and he is definitely one of those people who doesn't know how to always express like what's on his mind. And sometimes I have to like ask him like, hey, how are you feeling? Are you getting moody because you're hungry? Like it's sometimes like trying to understand like why he's acting a certain way. And he realizes it's because he doesn't normally like talk his feelings out loud. But for me, it's like, you know exactly how I'm feeling because I'll be

like, I'm hungry. I'm tired. And I just like say it out loud all the time. And so there's no like guessing. But for him, he's a little bit more mysterious in that way. And so we both agree like, you know, like going to therapy and talking to someone who's not our friend who has no like bias towards us would be really like interesting way to bond. And I think he's just always like down to try new things. And he didn't, we didn't like go into it thinking like we had any issues to unpack, but then you go to therapy and you're like, oh, damn, that's an issue. Let's unpack I know. The first therapy session is kind of scary because I feel like you come, it like rips all the band-aids off and you're just like raw and exposed and you're like, well, this is a

painful way to go through the world and then you need to like go back to start actually like healing the wounds. Yeah, it's interesting. Like my, the blog post I wrote about it, one of our biggest blowouts is all over pizza, which like sounds so stupid in hindsight, but it all comes down to like, like, you think the fight is about pizza and, like, him wanting pizza and me not letting him get the pizza. But we're realizing that the issue is that when Andrew has a need, he doesn't always know how to, like, express his need. And then I am not aware of that need. And so I walk all over it. And so that therapy session was like a breakthrough for us. It's like, well, I didn't realize that was. I think Zach and I have that too. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, and then it

feels like I'm always getting my way, but it's like, and then I get frustrated that I'm like, well, I would give you your way. Just tell me your way. You know, and I, it's a hard day. So what's the secret to that? You just ask more or does he need to communicate his needs more? Do I need to ask his needs more? Yeah. Like, there's only so much you can do on your own. Like, if, you know, I try to see, like, if he would journal or like go to therapy on his own. So I think like individually, like there's so much that you can work through. Because when you're in a therapy session together, you're kind of like more cautious about what you're saying, you know, in a way because it's like, yeah. But I think like he's aware of the things that like would make himself feel better is by being

able to find a way to communicate his needs more because if he's able to communicate his needs, then I'm able to like be receptive of it. Because like ultimately I'm like, you're making me feel like a monster because I don't know what your needs are. But like, I'm not a mind reader. Like tell me what you want. So totally. Yeah. He's got to need halfway.

Is couple therapies an ongoing practice for you guys? Or you guys just use it as like a little intermittent thing or how do you approach it? we did it we haven't been in a while it got expensive that's that's what sucks about this any therapy yeah yeah um no but we've been thinking like oh you know it'd be really nice to like do like a virtual one or like i would even like to just go back alone and like and you'd like to go back alone because i think there's just like things like that we could work through individually that i think like would strengthen our relationship is we're able to like fix what's going on with ourselves first you know i'm saying Like there's things that I feel like I need to address in therapy. And like there's things he might need to address in therapy.

And we might be projecting those things on each other when we could actually just like fix them within ourselves. So that's something that like it's on our to do list, like to look for a virtual. I'm going to go back to my blog post. I know I listed some resources. I do think the pandemic is interesting for relationships too, especially if you are, you know, sheltering in place with another human. And like it's brought out so many different, both positive and negative dynamics. I have friends who started dating people right at the beginning.

And then it's either like you're doing super great and you get everything out there or it absolutely breaks you. So I think it's an interesting time to go back and explore that after being trapped together with no other people. There was times in New York when Zach and I, it was like in, you know, March, April when the pandemic was really, really bad in New York. And we learned how to communicate through fights better than we ever have in our life because we were like, we only have each other if we take away the joy of having, like there was no room to kind of pout for three days and go out drinking with my girlfriends and ignore it. We had to be good. And I feel like it was so good for our relationship overall in that way because we learned to communicate in a way that we were forced to learn, you know. Yeah. I totally relate to that because we had basically we got married in February and then we were supposed

to go like on a I know you snuck in there like yeah because you did a destination wedding in Costa Rica and then the entire world shut down like three weeks later yes I'm so grateful for the timing of that I couldn't imagine if we had a postpone our wedding I honestly think we would have just eloped and not have done that and so knowing how awesome it was to do that I'm glad we did it definitely bummed we missed the honeymoon but gives us something to look forward to and all this shit is ever with when is that where was the pandemic where or where was the honeymoon supposed to be uh Bali yeah Bali and Australia but was it weird to have this be like your first few months of newly wed life I feel like we're pretty glued to the hip most of the time anyways but I definitely

think like it's nice that always had the option to go out with our friends do a thing, but we're also both homebodies and we like to be home together and we do a lot of things together. But there's definitely times where I'm like, oh, like just the way you breathe is annoying me right now. Like just the way like everything. And it's more a me thing because I'm getting frustrated with it. It's not like it's not his fault for doing X, Y, Z and for breathing. Yeah. Yeah. So there's just, yeah, we went through our little like waves of like, wow, it's a lot of time together. and you just it's like you have to work through it. And I remember we had like this fight earlier on and I was like crying and basically

came to the realization of like, you're my only person that I can be with right now. Like let's not make this horrible. Like let's love each other and respect each other and like understand that we both want each other to be happy. And so like I'm going to try to be more patient or I'm going to be tried not to react right away to that. I'm going to listen to you more. Like, we're both like trying to understand what we need from each other. And so it's brought us closer together for sure. And I think we've had a lot of fun together. Like we've been building things together, like mainly him. But he's like woodworking and

like I'm sewing and we're doing more things that are like creative and fun, like playing guitar. And I don't think we would have done that had we been able to go out on the evenings after work. It's like, no, we're staying home for the evening. What do you want to do? Yeah, totally. And there's only like so many hours of TV you can watch before you're just like, okay, well, that was entertaining for March. Yeah. And now it's a new month. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I feel like I watched all of Netflix and then I was like, there's nothing

less that I could possibly watch. Well, and they also stopped producing stuff. Yeah. Like, I feel like fall TV season's going to come and we're all going to be like, oh, wait, there's no new shows because they stopped shooting them. Yeah. I know. Well, that's when you get into Korean dramas because you basically unlock a whole new gallery

of shows. I need to do this. Are they subtitled? Yeah. I assume, right? Okay. So I can, and would you watch them on Netflix? Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're on Netflix. And it's a great way to practice your one-screen rule, which is something that I really, really try to do. Where, like, if you're watching TV, you're not on your phone. If you're on your computer, you pick one screening, but you dedicate your attention to that. It's really easy to do when you're watching a foreign movie or show because you have to read subtitles to know what's going on unless you are fluent in Korean. Oh, that's a good trick. And I like that rule as well, too. There's so many times when I'm watching a show and I'm like not really watching it and I'm scrolling through Instagram and I'm like this isn't like engaging in either sense. I just feel like I'm setting my brain on fire and like watching the burn, which is not satisfying. Can we talk about sustainability for a second? Because your whole sustainable lifestyle like is very inspiring to me. And I think a lot of people are interested in being more sustainable, more low waste. But it feels.

feels intimidating. So I would love to know how that started for you, how your whole low-waste journey began. I'm trying to think when it started, but I think it's more of like, you start, one, like unintentionally realizing you're being more sustainable because you're trying to save money or you're on a budget. And there's a lot of things they did just, you know, living in New York City, making very minimum salary at a fashion company. And, like, like living in Queens and just like there's just lots of things that like you did to like be resourceful and save money and now I think like it's it's awesome to see like how much like how many resources are out there and like a lot of times it can seem intimidating when you see you know like

beautiful imagery of like sustainable living and like tin cans and like everything is like perfectly aligned mason jars like I love that stuff I eat it up like I love seeing pictures like that But it doesn't, I want people to also understand that like sustainability can also be all the mismatched jars and like just using what you already have. And so I'm trying to be more conscious of that myself because as someone who like really enjoys having things organized and aligned, I also want people to not feel like they can't access that because it looks a certain way. So I'm personally working on like figuring out how I can like make people understand it's not as like big of a roadblock. And something actually Shelby, I think her YouTube is Shelbizzle. I don't know if you ever seen her,

but I watched one of her videos yesterday. And I really love what she said about how people often think of sustainability as, like, what do I need to give up to be more sustainable? And it's also similar, like, from like a minimalist perspective, like, what do I need to give up? It's not focusing. If you, like, remove your focus from, like, what I need to give up and focus. more on like what can I just do and integrate in my life easily like what's the first swap I can make that like is a no-brainer for me it was water bottles I think it's the easiest swap in the

world I haven't drinking out of a plastic bottle in years like I don't even remember the last time because bringing my water bottle with me is just so easy for me to remember I had my tote bag my water bottle my reusable mug back when reusable mugs were able to be accepted relevant Yeah. And so like I just, it's one of those things that like that was like an easy first step for me. And I can, you know, keep repeating that action every single day. And it's sustainable in my life now because like it's something that I can keep up with. And so you take that one thing, think of the one swap you can make and just keep on doing it. And then add another swap. And it's one of those things that like once you get into that group, it's kind of like now we don't leave our house without our mask. Same thing can go for not leaving your house without your. grocery bags and without your water bottle and things like that. So there's so many different ways we can make an impact and reduce our waste, but we don't need to do them all perfectly all at once 100% of the time because it's not realistic. Like we're going to forget we're human beings, but I wrote a blog post about how to not forget

your reusable things when you're on the go. and I basically like have these systems in place. So it's like I'm reminding myself not to forget my bag because I leave it on the door handle of my front door. And when I'm exiting, I grab the bag or, you know, like there's just different like things you can do to like better remember those things. But yeah, ultimately the most sustainable thing you can do is use what you have. Try to be more conscious of like how much you're purchasing of something,

like impulse buys or just buying a trinkable. top because it's on sale. Like if something's on sale and that's the best thing about an item, then maybe you don't really need it. Yeah, there's so many things I can talk about. But ultimately, like, yeah, it's not about like what other things can I buy to be more sustainable. It's more like what can I use that I already have instead of buying new things or disposable things of that item. The thing I have the hardest time with, though, like I also haven't used a grocery bag in a really long time. And I'm good about the water bottle and stuff. but then I get into this like existential eggs of like there's a garbage island in the middle of the ocean like how much is my tote bag matter and then it feels like such a tiny drop in the bucket not that I don't want to do it at all but that I just am like why and I'm wondering how you feel about how much it actually matters not to sound nihilistic yeah I know like I mean I think they call it like ego anxiety or whatever

it's a very real thing to feel like your action your individual actions aren't making that much of an impact but I like to think of it as you know how many people follow you over 100,000 people follow you probably way more than that you know like think of like our communities and if you're able to make an impact on those people that are following you to stop using like a plastic water bottle or whatever then like think of like how that ripple effect is for the amount of people that it's reaching. But at the same time, it's about voting for people that actually like care about those things too because like the real people that have like the real impact or the corporations that are creating all the waste in the first place. And that's the hard thing. Like our

society is not set up in a way to handle our waste. It's like it's not circular. It's linear. And like it sucks that like it's like working against us when we're trying so hard to like, you know, simplify our cleaning products and just buy one concentrate and refill our bottles because we don't need five different cleaning products for our house. So we only need one concentrate. So like reducing the amount of things I need to buy is saving me money. And like I think if anyone can agree, whether they care about like sustainability or not, if you can convince someone like, it's going to save you money, I think that's a good way to reach people. It's like you're going to spend less, you're going to have less clutter in your house. And hey, like it's good for the environment.

But I also think like when it comes down to like voting with your dollars, like that's where I think we can make a lot of impact. You know, like continuously trying to purchase from companies that are trying to make it more circular and be more mindful of our waste. I think a lot of sustainability comes down to businesses taking responsibility for the amount of trash and crap they put out there. You know, like Unilever and Nestle and all those huge asses. corporations that are big contributors to all the plastic. Like, those are the people who have an impact. These are the people who should be held accountable for, you know, the end life of their products.

So not supporting those companies is a great way to vote with your dollar, support companies that actually care about where their product goes when it's done. I love what you said too about like the cleaners because I do think we don't realize sometimes how much we're being tricked by essentially marketing. marketing and advertising into buying stuff that we literally just don't need. Like it's just like you don't need a different cleaner for your bathroom counter than your kitchen counter than your floor, unless you have like a special fancy wood floor or something. It's like it is they create these separate categories. So you have to buy separate products. And that is the only reason for it. So I think even

just that awareness of does somebody want me to buy this or do I want to buy this is a huge powerful starting point. Yeah. And a lot of the cleaning things we can ourselves with vinegar and baking soda. Like, I don't know what I would do without vinegar. It has so many uses in my life and it's really cheap and you can make so many different things with it. But if you don't want your house to smell like vinegar, then I use Branch Basics and they're based in Texas. And they are an awesome cleaning product that is like all purpose. You can use their concentrate for window cleaner and glass cleaner. You can use their concentrate for bathroom cleaner. It's just a matter of like how diluted it is. And that's pretty much all these cleaning products is just

mostly water with some ingredients. When you talk about, like, saving money with this, you've talked about financial minimalism before. Is that what you mean by financial minimalism is, like, how minimalism impacts your finances? Or is financial minimalism, like, its own thing? Yeah, basically, like, trying to be more aware of, like, where I'm repeatedly spending money that is unnecessary.

So, like, subscriptions that I don't even realize that I have, like, being mindful of that, like, those autopilot. reoccurring finances. So taking tally of that and taking tally of like, you know, for cleaning products, like that's such an easy thing to do. Like if you want to declutter your home and you want to invest in like, and it's not even investing, but like if you if you want to have non-toxic products and less products and purchase less of them and have things that a little bit goes a long way, like that's one of the easiest places to start because like when you're buying a new bottle, also paying for that new bottle.

It's an extra expense. So, like, now you have, like, all these bottles under your sink that are taking up all this space when you could have three, like, my cleaner right here, because I'm always wiping down my surfaces. So you have, like, three of these here. And you just, like, keep on refilling. And I don't need to have multiple, like, tons and tons of different bottles for different things.

And I can also use this to spray my plants if they have bugs on them. and I can clean the leaves. I can wash my fruit with this. Because I'm using a product that's non-toxic, it's safe for my hands. It's safe for my body. It's safe for my services. It's safe for my food. Like I am all for efficiency here and this, like things like this are super efficient because it's like one item, lots of purposes. I wash my car with it. You know, like that's, I'm all for like multi-purpose items where it's saving me space, saving me money. And, And to me, that's like being financially responsible to you. Because it's like, why throw that money away on things I don't need when I can find a product that's safe, efficient, and multi-purpose?

The pandemic was huge for that for me in terms of also just like taking a look at ways. Like so much of my money went towards grabbing a drink at a bar with friends. And then we wouldn't want the night to end. So we would go get food. And then we've spent over $100. just so I can enjoy the company of my friends. And so I think having almost like a clean slate to start with has been really helpful for, I guess, I don't know if that counts as financial minimalism,

but just financial awareness of where my money is going and what I'm getting for that value. And I think maybe that's what you're talking about to an extent is like when you spend your money, make sure you're getting the value that you're intending to get for that expenditure. sure. Yeah. So like a lot of it, one of the points in my blog posts is about, you know, aligning your spending with your values. So like obviously, we have the part of it with our dollars and do the best we can with, you know, like I would rather see a company like branch basics take over the world than a company like oxyclean or whatever. So it's, you know, like spending more money on companies like that. But also, you know, like not being an autopilot mode all

the time. Like, part of the things that I talk about on my page is that, like, you know, slow down, try to assess, like, what's going on because there's so many things entry and exiting our bank accounts that we aren't even really aware of or, like, we're spending things so quickly online, you know, through online purchases and everything's digital. We're not, like, physically holding cash anymore. It's like, I had a $100 bill. Now I have $80, now I have $20. We don't realize how much we're spending in a day sometimes because it's all digital transactions and we don't feel anything different until we look at our bank account. Oh, wow, I spent so much money. So now I feel like part of like being more mindful of like your spending and your clutter and things like that, it all comes down

to just slowing down, thinking a little bit, like take that extra 10 seconds to be like, do I really need this. Am I just ordering a second drink because I feel like my friends want me to or do I actually want it? I actually, no, I don't want it. I'm good to sit here and talk to you guys. So just trying to like slow down and get more in touch with like, do I really need that, want that? If I spent that, is it going to add value? You know, that's just kind of how I feel like I've started living my life and it's made an impact. For sure. We've talked about a lot of different sort of like little tips and routines and practices. Like you've mentioned journaling.

You've mentioned hanging your bag on the door, your tote bag, so you never go to the store without it. I'd love like maybe three to five things that somebody listening to this who wants to feel a change that will excite them about their life that have really worked for you. Like what are some very pragmatic tips like that people could put into practice? Okay, three things. Number one is boundary setting.

I think like everyone can start with boundary setting. So being able to be a better gatekeeper for your energy. And like a lot of times you'll talk about productivity and time management, but I think ultimately it boils down to your energy and like how much energy you're able to spend on that task without feeling burnt out. Or like, so for example, you know, a lot of us have a calendar. And then if someone sees an open spot, they're like, like, oh, cool, I have space for that meeting. So I've started learning that like,

things are always going to take twice as long as I think they're going to take. And I can probably handle less than I think in a day than what my calendar says. And so by like trying to not fill up all the blank spaces, I am setting a boundary to say like, no, I'm only taking meetings on Tuesday and Thursdays. If you don't see a spot, like let's just do it the next Tuesday or Thursday. And that's okay. Part of that boundary setting is also training people how to treat you in a way. Like you are helping manage their expectations of you. And so something I wish that I could have put more into practice when I worked like a nine to five was, you know, not always saying yes, yes, yes to everything and saying like, yeah, I can take that on. And then like going home being like,

how am I going to do this? How am I going to like get that done in time? How am I going to, sort of all these things on my plate and then it's like putting you in this like very stressful like fighter flight state constantly but then people always think they can come to you for that thing and they can always put that thing on your plate put that thing on your calendar but we're all adults here I feel like it should be the norm to be able to put your foot down and set that boundary I know it's easier said than done it completely depends on the kind of boss that you have or what situation you have going on but I feel like in adult world that should be normal and like I feel lucky to like be my own boss and that I can put my foot down and say I don't I'm not able to like do that this

week or I'm not able to commit my time to that or my energy to that I feel so much more empowered now to just say like now like I'm not going to do that and it's no like hard feelings but you know just respecting my own time energy and respecting that person's time and energy knowing that like you're not really going to show up for that anyways like your heart's not and do into that and you don't want to waste anyone's time. So boundary setting, I think, is number one for self-care. And that plays into relationships, that plays into work. And that plays into technology.

There's so much that I feel like you could just write a whole book on boundary setting. Well, and I feel like family life, too, is a huge area that people don't set boundaries and suffer a lot for that as well. So really every part of your life. Yeah, and like part of boundary settings also like turning off notifications too, which is I'm a big, big believer in. I talked about that in my decluttering your phone screen and like just going through your settings and turning off notifications for pretty much everything unless you're like a calendar alert or unless like telling you that you have a meeting in 10 minutes or if you're like a flight that's about to take off like you want that notification. but I used to be on like these group texts with my whole extended family and it was on WhatsApp and it would just like my whole phone screen was just filled with like hours of them back and forth and I'm

like I work on my phone. I can't have this popping up. I'm turning that notification off. So boundary setting I feel like I could talk forever about that. Second thing to me I'm a big believer in morning routines because I believe that when you start your day off on a good note it sets you up to make better happier, healthier decisions for the rest of the day. And I know for sure, for me personally, the days when I start my day with intention, I wake up at 6.15, I get a little bit of like workout in. And when I say workout, I don't mean that I'm doing like one hour hit workout. Like sometimes it's like 15 minutes of yoga. Sometimes it's just like 10 minutes of meditation. Like you whatever you're doing. Like I just need to like move my body and like get centered in some way. And then drinking my macho.

like do something that like you're looking forward to and it could be one step like it doesn't have to be this long intricate morning routine but like find something that gets you feeling good so that like you're able to like be more focus for the rest of the day because like when I don't do that and when I like staying in bed longer because there are definitely days in quarantine where I felt down and I just kind of rolled out of bed and went straight to my computer didn't move my body didn't get centered didn't go outside yet like there was just things that I did and And the rest of my day kind of just felt like not as productive. I was more, you know, distracted by things.

And I wasn't as happy. And then it's easy to like continue feeding into those behaviors too and like stop yourself from it as well. And so I'd go in and out of funks. But then I knew like when I started like setting my alarm again, I feel so much better and more energized. Two things for that. One, I think a lot of people would love to have a morning routine.

but they don't feel like they have time. They have to rush to work. They have kids. So I'm curious what you'd say to that. And then two, I think the morning routine thing suffers from the same problem. A lot of things do, which is like there are so many options.

How do you narrow in on the ones that will have the best results for you? Yeah. So for that, like that's why I think it's great to follow other people that inspire you and like see what they do and spend their mornings. Because I think that gives you a lot of inspiration. Like sometimes people don't. even like know what the options are, you know, like some, I remember just saying like, you know,

I like to do morning pages where I'll just free write. Like some people have never heard of that. And like there's so many resources online and like obviously like Instagram, YouTube. There's so many different people out there to be inspired by. And I think like by all of us kind of sharing like what works for us, we're able to help each other get inspired and like create our own version of that and like test it out. And like, is something feel. feels like you're just doing it as like a chore, then maybe you don't need to do that. Like for me, if I don't have my matcha, then I can't start my day. Like I can't even form normal sentences while I finish my matcha.

I'm just like tripping all my words. So yeah, I think you have to be more in tune with like, like to a certain extent you get inspired by other people, but then you also have to like get in tune with like, does this make me feel better? Or do I just feel like I'm doing it because the internet is that they should do it. it's really about how you feel. And then for the not having enough time. So that, I mean, I know, like, people who have to go to work like a lot earlier and it's a lot more difficult, you know, so you have to like, are the subways even open right now? Yeah, they are. Okay. So like people who

have to get on the train at like 730 to be at work by 8, 8, 8 15. And like that's, it's harder. So like you definitely have to like, I don't think morning routines need to be long, but say you only have like 15 minutes. Would you rather spend those 15 minutes? scrolling on your phone and checking emails that you're already going to check when you get to work? Or would you rather take that 15 minutes to like do that one thing that is going to help you feel a little bit more at peace before you jump right into it? It's like I feel like a lot of us waste time in the morning because we're checking our newsfeed or we're checking our emails.

But like, why don't you check your email when you get to your desk? I don't feel like this is like another thing with setting boundaries. Like if you're constantly available for people and you're constantly available to answer that email right as it comes in, people are going to always expect you to answer that right when it comes in. So like stop letting people expect that from you. If you only have 15 minutes of that day, like think about like what are your priorities. Would you rather be on your phone scrolling, checking your news feed, responding to emails before you even and got to the office that day? Like, would you rather do that or would you rather spend those 15 minutes for yourself? Or, you know,

if you have children, like maybe you want to be present with them and like find that new routine for you. Like I know that my routine is going to change. babies. But most people that I talk to, everyone's different. I listen to your podcast episode on pros and cons of having kids. So you probably like learned even more insight than what I'm going to say. But a lot of the people that I know when they have babies, they're like, I'm sad to leave them and I'm going to miss them. So like maybe you're spending that morning with that baby and like you're learning what are things I can do with a kid. How can I like fit that? It's not going to be like picture perfect and like things are going to ebb and flow like I honestly think having my dog clover is like having a

baby and maybe people who have like real human babies are like oh god you have no idea but she would get me up at like 530 every day and I wasn't able to like have my morning routine for a little bit because she kept waking up and any time I wanted to like exercise she was in my face and just under my feet and just constantly needed attention and so I'm like a kind of is that like what a toddler is like they're just like always there. And so now that she's sleeping in, I'm able to like close the bedroom door, go do my workout while she's still sleeping and do my thing. And then 730 hits and then the dogs are running around. They're crazy and they're fighting and like it's just nuts. So I have like my little window of peace before they all wake up. I also love the idea that your morning routine could

include something like going for a quick walk with your dog or playing with your kid. Like it doesn't have to be the stuff that we put in the bucket of, oh, this is wellnessy. It could be whatever you define is setting your morning off on like a good note. I think that's very freeing. I think number one thing is like we can probably all agree that when we start our day with their phone, it tends to make us feel more sad than more energized. And so being able to like set that boundary and like physically distance ourselves from that technology until it's time to like go to your desk and do your work and do those things. then we're just going to, it's going to be a lot better of a start to our day, no matter what you're doing.

Yeah. I think that's like the message of this conversation for me is like distance myself for my phone. Like I'm getting it. It's not easy to do. But when I started time blocking, I would say like, okay, I'm not going to touch my phone until I do these three things or whatever. And then like when I get at my desk, I'm like, okay, now I'm going to start my workday, which equals posting around 9 a.m. and then I stay online for like 30 minutes to make sure that I'm like responding to comments and answering as many messages as I can, but also realizing that I'm only human and I'm only one person I can't possibly respond to every message even though I want to. And so like having that respect for my own time and my own personal mental health and energy and just like finding peace with that is the one thing that I think is important. But like setting, I had like time blocks. I'd say like in the

morning after I posted I would like be online for this amount of time. Then I put my phone in this drawer, which so I just put it away. So it's not even, I think that is huge too. Like not even having it face down where you can see it, but having it like fully out of your vision. Out of sight, out of mind. Like I really forget to check my phone because I don't even see it on my desk. And so I like am able to have like those uninterrupted blocks of focus where I'm like,

you know that feeling. You're a writer. Like when you're really in the groove and you're just like, I could write all day. I like to have more of those times where I'm like, like in the pocket of work. Well, and I think the thing that people forget is that that's literally like a muscle and you need to work it out. And so when you first start not fragmenting your time, not checking your phone like six times an hour,

like it feels so hard to focus because everything in our lives has trained us not to focus. And if you just trust that like by focusing, you're training yourself to focus more and it will become easier. It actually will. It's just it's hard to remember that, I think. And it can feel so freaking hard at first because literally we live in this. world that's like trained us to focus for no more than 10 seconds at a time, you know? Yeah. And I think like it's also a realization that like I'm going to create better content

and I'm going to have like more things that I can like share when I'm able to like give myself that uninterrupted focus to really get in tune with what I want to say and like what I'm experiencing to be able to like create that into like video content or a blog content for somebody. But if I'm on my phone and I'm constantly distracted by like, every ping and like every notification and thing popping up on my screen that's steering my focus from that. And I'm also going to get sucked into the comparison land where it's like, I'm not good enough. And like, I was feeling like that today too. Like I was, I had to write a bio for the speaking gigs that I'm doing. And I'm like reading my old bio and I'm like, I'm not good at

anything. And like, I have nothing to say. And so like, it's human. It happens. But like, I realize the correlation of like when you scroll too much and when you. And when you. don't scroll, how much happier and lighter are you? So we had to find like a good balance with that. And it doesn't mean that we get it right every single day. Like it's, it's an heaven flow. Okay. And what's a third sort of pragmatic thing somebody could do right now akin to hanging a bag on their door so they never go to the store without one? But like what's something else? Somebody could put in action right now. I think decluttering, obviously like it doesn't happen overnight, but being more aware of the stuff that is surrounding you. And like, you know,

like maybe you have a theme each week and maybe this week is focusing on the office. So today, I'm telling myself, I'm going to find five things to put away or get rid of. And like slowly throughout that week, I start putting things into a basket of I don't need that. I'm going to donate it or I'm throwing this away or I'm recycling, whatever category goes into, just like put that bucket in that room and just like throughout the week start to like put things in there and clear through it. Oh, I love that. I think clutter is such a, for me, like people ask like, how are you so organized and how are you clutter free? It's like because my anxiety depends on it. Like if I didn't have anxiety, I probably wouldn't be this much of a need freak, but I need this.

And that's been like part of me and Andrew, like our relationship understanding, him understanding me and my connection to my mental health and mess. So that's just like, I have to deal with it. And I have to, even if I have kids, like, I can't like predict the future, but I do feel like I'm not going to be able to just switch that need off for needing things to be clean and tidy and clutter-free. It doesn't mean things are clean 100 times. But the fact is, like, I can easily put this back to where it belongs and it takes me two seconds. Yeah. Versus like, is like having so much stuff that's just out for no reason. I love the theme idea too.

I think that's such a fun like this week I'm decluttering my living room and make it possible, attainable and work towards it every day. I think it makes it feel less like a big to do and less like everything's going to get really terrible before it gets good too, you know? Yeah. Or like even Andrew and I like we have a little pile at the top of the stairs because I'm clearing things up for my store. and I'm like, hey, every time you go downstairs, grab something, take it down. And so we don't have

this pile here. And so it's just like little by little. It doesn't have to, we don't have to all be like making multiple trips. It's just like, I'm going to take the stock of boxes down because I'm all my way downstairs. Right. That makes sense. Okay. I have some quick fires for you. Have you ever been somewhere in the world and been like the people who live here really got it right in terms of living a healthier, happy life? And if so, where was it? Well, okay. This is probably hard because it's a specific community that they developed for this is not necessarily the rest of this country. But where I got married in Costa Rica, they're building basically their own regenerative community where you can eat from the land and they're going to have schools there. And it's basically just like you're so in touch with nature and the food and where it comes from.

And you're like so in tune with the community around you and the people that. make the community. Like I feel like a lot of times we're so disconnected from each other and from the world around us on the planet. And I just like, I look at that and I'm like, wow, it'd be so amazing to live somewhere like that where like it's a community, it's a family. And you all have like different things that you bring to the table and can contribute to one another. And it's not every person for themselves. It's like, no, like, oh, I know someone who can do that. Oh, why don't you talk to them down the street and like everyone's just like a big happy community and I just wish I would love to have more of that like I'd love to have more of like a tight knit inner life community to be able to like

yeah support one another in that way yeah not just online I dream of living in a commune someday um it's like a big big dream of mine okay what is the best way to spend 20 minutes every day in terms of living a healthier or happier life I live for like I need my meditation like I need my meditation the morning and it's not 20 minutes. It's usually 10 minutes. But that time where like my eyes are closed, I don't have like headphones on. I'm literally sitting outside on my patio before the sun comes up. And sitting out there on my yoga mat, I can hear my hydroponic garden. I can hear like the water going through it. Sounds like I'm by a fountain. It's just so peaceful. Like I need that time in the morning to just be outside, breathing in like fresh air. Like I just, I need it. What's one thing that

you've bought that's made your life healthier or happier? Um, plants. Plants probably. I don't know. It's, yeah, once I learned that plants are a great way to decorate things without, and they're a living thing and I don't need, like, knick-knacks. Yeah, plants. Do you feel successful and why or why not? I do feel successful because I feel like I'm finally in a place where I'm happy with myself and what I'm doing and how I'm contributing and I'm learning to like put less pressure on myself and just like I said, just like be able to be content and happy with wearing I'm now instead of constantly looking to the future. Just like being able to yeah, not take for granted what I have going on in life now. I love that. Okay. And this is the last one. What is one mistake that you've made that you've learned

from a lot and what's something that you really got right? I mean, I think there's definitely like a time in my life where like I'm like more subject to being a people pleaser and I want to like try to bend over backwards and like get everything done and help people and like make time for every little thing. And like that was like 2018 and previous me. I feel like I was very much like the dependable person like oh, Jules will do it. Jules will get that done. Like oh, we can depend on her. But I wasn't like respecting my own boundaries. And so in 2018 I set those boundaries and I started getting better at them. And now I feel like maybe I'm not that like go-to person to always say yes to things. But when I do take on something, like I will do it and I'll do it well. And you can rely on me in

that sense. But yeah, being a bit of a dormant, I'd say in the past. And I mean, I guess you could also say that something I've done right now is like setting boundaries and respecting my time more and also respecting that like I can do more things that I'm just excited about and I don't have to have any like reason attached to it. I don't have to have like some business angle attached to it. I don't always need to be reading self-help books as much as I love them. Sometimes you can read a fiction book like Game of Thrones or Outlander, you know, and there's, you don't always need to be like working on yourself and doing personal development. You can sometimes just want to play ukulele because it's fun, you know, just doing things that you enjoy.

I love that. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of these. There's a lot of food for thought in this episode. I feel like I'm going to put my phone away and think about my boundaries. Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. I hope you loved that episode with Jules.

Remember to do a screenshot and tag both of us on Instagram. She's at Alman the City. I'm at Liz Moody. We would love to hear about boundaries, your setting, or any other takeaways that you have from this episode. Also, if you would be so kind, if you love this episode, I wanted to leave a quick review on whatever platform you listened to your podcast on. I would be so, so appreciative.

We're eight away on Apple Podcasts from 1,000. I don't know why that feels special, but it does. And then if you would like to check out my newly launched precept, pack, which is on sale for a very limited time only, head over to Liz Moody.com slash presets. I cannot wait to share them with you. All right. Thank you so much for listening. I love having you here. I love our little H.T. fam. And I can't wait to see you on the next episode of the Healthier Together podcast. When it comes to wellness, you're going to get the best results by focusing on the big needle movers. A lot of us spend a lot of time trying to optimize that last 1%, which creates a ton

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