The Liz Moody Podcast - Ranking Skincare Advice From Social Media (with Dr. Sam Ellis)

Starting point is 00:00:00 The skincare advice that we see the most on social media is not the skincare advice that's going to help our skin the most. In fact, it's often the opposite. The stuff that goes viral that we're like, wait, this is everywhere. Should I try this? Is often causing us at best to waste our money. And at worst, it is wrecking our skin. On the Liz Moody podcast, we are always looking for the real science that can actually

Starting point is 00:00:20 change our lives. So today, we are ranking skincare advice from social media. The top ranking is going to be S tier. That is superior advice, the best of the best. And then it goes in order A, B, C, D, E, all the way down to F tier, which is advice that you should definitely not do, avoid as much as possible. And I brought in the best person in the world to do this with me, Dr. Samantha Ellis, a board certified dermatologist who works with all of your favorite celebrities.

Starting point is 00:00:48 She has hundreds of thousands of followers online and her own skincare line carried at Target. She is basically impossible to get into to see in real life. But today we have her all to ourselves. This is part of one of my favorite series that we do on this podcast. I love it so much. I know that you love it too. We have already ranked fitness advice from social media with celebrity with celebrity with celebrity advice.

Starting point is 00:01:08 We have ranked therapy advice from social media with Lori Gottlieb, nutrition advice, money advice. So scroll back so you do not miss out on any of those. And then let me know in the comments what topic we should rank next or if you disagree with any of the rankings that you hear today. Dr. Sam, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so excited.

Starting point is 00:01:27 So we already had you on for a longer form episode. where we went through all different skin care concerns like redness and acne and aging and all these things and you gave like a protocol for each one. But today we're doing something that's a little bit fun, a little bit feisty. We're going to be ranking skincare advice from the internet. We have some pretty interesting stuff here. The first one is from a little known actress, Selma Hayek. This is what she said in an interview on YouTube. My grandmother taught me never to wash my face in the morning. It's not disgusting, guys. What happens at night is that your skin, produces all the oils that your skin needs to look youthful. It regenerates. So wash your skin really well

Starting point is 00:02:08 at night, but don't wash the hard work of your skin in the morning. I will say she looks insane. Amazing. She looks goals. So good. Yes. She looks so good, though, that I'm like, do we take tips from this woman, or is this clearly genetics? Sure. I mean, I can't say that it's the non-skin washing that's leading to her fabulous appearance. Yeah. But I have to say I do agree with her. that you really don't need to wash your face in the morning and it can be beneficial. Okay. Why is the mechanism that she shared in that video why it's beneficial? To some degree, yes. So your skin undergoes a lot of repair while you're sleeping. It's why sleep is so important also for skin. And you do generate some new oils and you sort of restore

Starting point is 00:02:47 your skin barrier overnight and you don't need to cleanse in the morning. You didn't get dirty overnight. What about if I put like my retinal on overnight or there's the skincare that feels like a moisturizer, and then there's the skincare that feels like an active ingredient. And I'm like, do I need to be washing that off before I put on my makeup and my skincare in the morning? You generally don't. So by the time you have put it on, slept, rolled on your pillowcase, et cetera, it's either absorbed into your skin or it's absorbed into your pillowcase. And even though some small remnants of it might still be on your skin, for most people, that's going to be completely fine to just proceed with your routine. I usually recommend just like a water rinse and then go in with it. Okay, so

Starting point is 00:03:22 where would we rank this advice? I would put this as like a tier advice. Okay. Is there anybody who you think should be washing their face in the morning? Yes. I think for people who have really oily skin who wake up and feel greasy or shiny, there are some people who just have a lot of sebaceous activity. Sometimes that happens during pregnancy, during puberty. And some people are just oilier people. And that can be nice to remove so that it's not in excess. But for the vast majority of people, they don't need to be cleansing. And for a lot of people, they over-iritate their skin by cleansing more than they need to. It's one of the first things I cut out when I do skincare routines for people is their morning cleanse. All right, well, we have another piece of cleansing advice. This is from the abuth on Reddit. I started double cleansing, and it made such a difference. At first I thought it was too much, but once I tried it, my skin felt so much cleaner. The first cleanse gets rid of makeup, sunscreen, and dirt, while the second really deep cleanser skin.

Starting point is 00:04:12 It helped with breakouts and made my pores less noticeable. How do we rate double cleansing? Wow, is it too much to give two A's in a row? I'm a huge fan of double cleansing as well. And especially for someone like that who's wearing sunscreen, who's wearing makeup, the reality is people just aren't exceptional cleansers and there might be not as thorough as they think they're being. And so there's residue that gets left on the skin with a single cleanse or their single cleanse is just a very gentle cleanser that might not be removing everything that's on there.

Starting point is 00:04:38 So we don't want to clean in the morning, but we also want to take that morning clean and like add it like do two times in it. Yes. Basically you're just looking for a very thorough clean in the evening and some people can accomplish that with a single cleanse, but some people do a double cleanse. And usually you're doing kind of an oil-based cleanser first. So something like an oil, a balm, or something like a mycelor water, which helps kind of grab the dirt and gunk off of your skin as sort of the first step. And then you're using a second gentle cleanse to rinse the rest away. Can we just use the same cleanser twice to double cleanse? Like, do you need different ones to have different effects? Or is the goal just like, we're trying really to get it as

Starting point is 00:05:14 thoroughly done as possible? You're trying to get it as thoroughly done as possible. But sometimes a cleanser will be good enough to do that all in one step. I feel like if you're using makeup or water resistant sunscreen, that can be a little bit stubborn to get off with like your typical gel cleanser. And so using something that's more oil-based or myceler water on a cotton pad where you're also adding a frictional element can just be more thorough and comprehensive. So for people who don't put a lot of stuff on their skin throughout the day, a single cleanse is usually appropriate. But if you have makeup, if you have sunscreen on, a double cleanse usually just is more effective. And what you're trying to do with an evening cleanse is set your skin up for success with whatever you're going to put on top of it.

Starting point is 00:05:51 And so you want to just start with the cleanest canvas possible. Is there anything to putting my cleanser on dry skin and then adding water to it? Not really. You don't have to do that. It feels like it's like grabbing stuff more. Is that silly? Isn't it bad? It's not bad. It's not bad at all. But it's not going to really work. The way cleansers work is by combining them with water.

Starting point is 00:06:09 And so I will like take my prequel glenzer and I'll use it to just get a really even distribution on everything and then add a little bit of water. but that's mostly so it doesn't get super sedzy and stays more manageable for me. I saw a video with Charlotte Palomino and she had tested her skin after cleanser if there's any product left on it. And she was like basically unless you're taking a full-on shower, there was product left on my skin. Yes. And it's also why I really like my cellar waters where you're using a cotton pad because usually people are missing like the periphery of their face, the crooks of their nose, around their eyes, definitely their neck and chest. So a shower is the best way and you don't have to have a perfectly thorough cleanse every night to have great skin,

Starting point is 00:06:45 but it certainly sets you up for success. Okay. Last cleanser. People are like, we're sick of cleansers. But like, when you're showering, will you like do your oil cleanse and then get in the shower and then wash that off and then do your second cleanse in the shower? That is what I do. I know that feels like so extra.

Starting point is 00:06:59 But like while my shower is heating up, I will do like some massage with my oil cleanser from my brand. And then I will get in, rinse and then do the other cleanse. All right. This is from Michaela on TikTok. And she says that salmon sperm is the key to a tight face. I'm telling you right now, I'm starting. using salmon sperm on my skin about two weeks ago and my skin is tighter than my vagina

Starting point is 00:07:19 after not having put out for a while. My skin is tight to mention the glow. Is there any research around what salmon sperm does to our skin? Yes. So I first of all, I feel like it should be made abundantly clear that you're not taking sperm directly from salmon and putting it on your face when people are talking about using salmon sperm. They're talking about using the specific ingredient derived from salmon sperm, which is PDRN or polydeoxy right. No. I I had had the thought of like, how we're, yeah, we're just, are we jacking off the salmon? I know, it really is what comes to mind. Yes, there are processes where you can get salmon sperm and then extract this PDRN from it. And that is sort of the active ingredient that people are seeking out. And you can get PDRN from other sources, but from salmon is sort of what they do the most and is considered the most effective. And it has some good early data to show that it helps with like wound repair and anti-inflammatory property. properties, but saying that in two weeks applying it to your skin is going to completely change your skin.

Starting point is 00:08:21 I feel like that's, oh gosh, I don't know how D tier advice. People are doing this in topical skincare preparations. They're also getting it injected into their skin. Spatials, right? The salmon sperm vaguely. Yeah. You can either put it on topically after like microneedling. In Korea, a lot of people get it injected in sort of like a micro-droplet fashion throughout their skin where they get like hundreds and hundreds of injections throughout their face. And there are clinics that do that. It's not approved by the FDA to be injected in the U.S. We just don't have like the robust data to show that it's that effective. And certainly not for tightening and certainly not in two weeks.

Starting point is 00:08:51 That's a really rapid timeline to see change from anything, even the most evidence-based intervention. Is there anybody that you would say, yeah, you probably need salmon sperm in your skincare routine. Or like that makes sense for you to try this out. No, I feel like there are 20 more evidence-based ingredients you could incorporate into your routine before salmon sperm. This is from Livy on TikTok. Beef tallow is blowing up right now and dermatologists don't want you to know about it. I've struggled

Starting point is 00:09:17 with acne and dull skin that looks like this for years. And as you can see, my skin is flawless and so glowing now. Not to tube my own horn, but I get compliments every single day on my skin. Literally the only products that I use is beef tallow and I just use it as a moisturizer after washing my face. Within two weeks, my acne was gone. My skin was just looking so much younger, bouncier and more glowy. I also use some on my eyelashes and my eyelashes have gotten so much longer. And the reason why I think it works so well is because beef tallow is a completely natural product. It doesn't have a bunch of chemicals that we see in a lot of our skin care today. It's literally so clean that you can eat it. But when you use it on your skin, it just melts

Starting point is 00:09:55 right in and it gives you this beautiful, glowy effect. I will say the girl in this video, her skin looks amazing. I don't doubt it. But why don't you guys, you dermatologists, why are you hiding? Why don't you want us to know about this beef towel? I know. We don't support big beef tallow. I'm not against beef tallow. It is a rich combination of fats that have a moisturizing effect. And so for some people, if they are getting acne breakouts because they're poorly moisturizing, they have a disrupted skin barrier, perhaps it could be helpful. But to me, it's just an unadvanced moisturizer. So what would be an advanced moisturizer? I feel like when you look at like modern skin care formulations, you're able to take the best

Starting point is 00:10:37 ingredients and put them together in a way where they can be highly effective. You can combine humectants that draw water to the skin and amolients that soften the skin and occlusives, which Beef tall is basically an occlusive that prevents transepidermal water loss or loss of water through the skin. And you're able to put them in a more strategic way into a formula that can potentially be more effective. It's not to say that Beef tallow can't be an effective moisturizer, but to say that it has all these amazing effects. And again, in two weeks, which I don't know why, that's like the magic timeline for these improvements. It's far-reaching. She said that it cleared up her acne and it made her skin glow. Is there any mechanism

Starting point is 00:11:11 of action by which you could see beef tallow clearing up acne? Not that readily comes to mind. That doesn't mean that it couldn't have some contributory effects like helping regulate some skin cell turnover. But there is no data to my knowledge that this is effective. And I could imagine a lot of people out there who struggle with acne that's like a real condition that's hard to treat for some people trying beef tallow and being very disappointed. I think the risk is fairly low.

Starting point is 00:11:34 The main risk would be that beef tallow is thought to be comedogenic or poor clogging for people. So if you already struggle with acne and you're putting something that's potentially poor clogging on your skin, that could be more problematic, but we have so many good treatments for acne out there, this would not be my priority. It's kind of like slugging, right? It's the top step where you would put on your moisturizer or you'd do all your stuff and it'd be the last step that you'd kind of lock that in with. Lock everything in. I definitely wouldn't put it on in the morning because it's going to disrupt how sunscreen sits on your skin and that's a really important part of your skincare routine, but yes, you could try it as like your evening moisturizer if you wanted to. Where do we want to

Starting point is 00:12:06 put this on the tier list? D. Okay. Yeah, it's pretty low. Okay. I have a a few different hacks. This is from Clean Dewey on TikTok, and she shared a few clear skin hacks that helped her clear up her acne. Salary juice on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning, is amazing for your gut and liver, is the claim. There's very little data to support that what goes on in your liver is the thing that causes acne or skin issues in general. We know that people who don't have a functioning liver can have issues with their skin where it gets yellow and sallow, but that's like end-stage liver disease. There's no data to my knowledge that celery juice helps your liver in a way that would reflect in the clarity or the beauty of your skin.

Starting point is 00:12:45 Is there any mechanism by which you would? Hydration, I guess, celery juice? Yeah. Hydration, a lot of times when people are talking about things on an empty stomach, they're hoping for some type of like hormone regulation, especially if you're talking about when it comes to acne. But celery juice is not something that we think of as affecting your hormones the way other oral medications or even food can.

Starting point is 00:13:04 Where would we put celery juice? F. Dandelion root extract is amazing for your liver. a few drops in your tea will help your skin glow almost instantly. Not a hepatologist. I'm not a liver specialist. But even if you are augmenting the way the liver functions, there's no great connection to how that should help your skin

Starting point is 00:13:23 if your liver in general is working. The only thing I can think of here is I interviewed a doctor who worked with like all these Victoria's Secret models years ago. And I said like, what's one food we should all be incorporating in our diet that we're not eating? And he said bitter food. So he said like arugula, watercress, things like that. And the idea was that they stimulate the juices in your gut and then you digest

Starting point is 00:13:44 your food better and your microbiome's happier and you're getting more nutrients out of your food. I hear about the dandelion skin connection all the time. And I'm wondering if that. There's like a microbiome thing. Yeah, there's like a microbiome because we know our microbiome does have an impact on our skin. Absolutely. We just don't know how direct and in what ways it does for a lot of things. And especially when it comes to just like general skin clarity, we don't fully understand that. so to have that direct sort of translation doesn't feel accurate. Okay. But in general, I feel like there's more to the idea of taking care of your gut to take care of your skin.

Starting point is 00:14:15 Absolutely. But rather than like dandelion root, I would say high fiber diets, consuming a lot of antioxidants, those are things that are like well proven when it comes to like skin health. And if you want to do that, by all means, dandelion is just something that does not have quite the same robust data to support it. If you were going to say three things that we could do in terms of eating or drinking to support our skin, what would those be? I would say consume a wide variety of fibers just to help with the diversity of your gut microbiome. The more diverse your gut microbiome is generally the healthier your skin is.

Starting point is 00:14:45 We see in a lot of different skin diseases. They have limited or restricted both skin and gut microbiome. I would try to limit high glycemic index foods or meals, so you're really trying to eat things that you're slower to digest that are not going to spike your insulin levels as much because, again, you stimulate that IGF1 or the insulin like growth factor one. And for a lot of people that can lead to acne, your breakouts. That data is not 100%, but it's good for your health in general. So I would say do it. Consuming just high antioxidant foods, whether that's like brightly colored foods, whether it's very leafy greens, lots of carrots, bell peppers. The more antioxidants you have in your diet, the more photo protective you can be. So that can also help with just the way you manage oxidative

Starting point is 00:15:25 stress in the skin. Green tea polyphenols, very helpful for the skin as well. Wait, does matcha is yeah, for sure, match is like super green tea. That's like the purest way you could get it. Yeah, So green tea is definitely, I would put that up there as like, if you're going to do dietary things for your skin, that data still remains more nebulous because it's hard to control for, but something I would feel confident in recommending. And is green tea is that because of the antioxidant quantity in that and quality? Okay. So that's why I glow so much. Exactly. I drink so much. I literally, I was Googling the other day and it's like, how much macha is too much macha? Really? Green tea is something that I drink because I know it's good for me, but it's not something I enjoy. I'll make you macho latte next time we hang out and you'll- I would love to be a good. green tea. Yeah, I will convert you. I'm so into that. Where do we put dandelion root extract?

Starting point is 00:16:10 F. Mint tea balances testosterone. I noticed this wasn't on your list. So mint tea balances testosterone and clears hormonal acne. Two cups a day is the key. We get a dose in this one. Yes, that's good. I mean, and that two cups a day comes from a clinical trial where they looked at people who drank two cups a day and they saw that their serum testosterone levels decreased. And we know that people who have excess serum testosterone or have hypersensitivity to the natural testosterone that circulates in their blood can have things like hercutism, so increased hair growth on the face or acne. Wait, is that PCOS?

Starting point is 00:16:42 Yeah, like PCOS, exactly. The thought of taking spearmint tea to sort of lower circulating testosterone levels is something that can be recommended. I mean, these are small studies, but they have been reproduced. And so it's something that someone wants to try something in the more like natural realm. I'm for it. Okay, so that was spearmint tea? Spearmint tea.

Starting point is 00:17:00 Specifically in two cups a day. And if you have PCOS, maybe why not included? Yeah. Why not? It's just supportive. So we're going to put that at like a C, B? I think B. AHA slash glycolic acid. A strong but simple chemical exfoliant will change your life. If you're breaking out badly, use this and only this. Plus SPF for a few months and it'll sort you out. Wow. I mean, glycolic acid can be very helpful for acne. It is the most potent of the AHAs or the alpha hydroxy acids just because it's a very small molecule. It can penetrate more deeply into skin than the other alpha hydroxy acids like lactic acid or mandela. acid. And for a lot of people, their acne is due to clogging of their pores and sort of that dysregulated skin cell turnover. So glycolyc acid can help break apart those dead skin cells and help

Starting point is 00:17:45 with that. It's not well studied in terms of the data that shows that that is a great acne treatment, but I can absolutely see how it could be helpful for people. So do you like the idea of doing only that plus SPF for a few months? It wouldn't be the thing I would start with. I would pick if you're going over-the-counter things like adapoline or different gel, which you can get at the drugstore because there's much more data to support that that helps regulate skin cell turnover. It's also anti-inflammatory. The issue with glycolic acid, even though I love it, I have glycolic acid products in my own skincare line, is that it is stronger, and then you run the risk of people disrupting their skin barrier. Using that every single day can be too much for a lot of people.

Starting point is 00:18:20 Okay, so where would we put this? I know I feel like it should get a little bump up because they do mention SPF, and I know we love SPF. I'm so proud about that. The SPF is really great, and that also can help with inflammation around acne and scarring. I would put this as like a C because I'm not antiglycolic acid. It has a lot of beautiful benefits for the skin. They just aren't all acne related. Okay, this is the last one from Clean Dewey on TikTok. Use castor oil in place of moisturizer. It's non-cometogenic, so it won't break you out and it feels like it heals your skin from the inside out. I'm glad it feels that way. Caster oil and just plant oils in general are nice moisturizers. They're mostly emolients that soften and smooth the skin. They can have slight occlusive

Starting point is 00:18:57 properties to kind of repair the skin barrier. So I'm not anti-caster oil, but a more traditional, well-formulated moisturizer is going to work better for a lot of people. Now, if someone has super sensitive skin or a lot of allergies, going with these sort of pure oils, make sure they're not essential oils, but something like castor oil could be helpful. But it's not the best moisturizer that exists. I feel like we don't talk enough, though, about how essential oils, even though they're natural can really irritate your skin. So I've seen people using these like natural oil blends and like their skin is going crazy because it has all these different essential oils in it. Yes, essential oils can be highly problematic. I don't want to like demonize one category, but essential

Starting point is 00:19:34 oils I see problems with all the time, whether it's allergic contact dermatitis because a lot of them also are in the fragrance world and they can cause a lot of sensitivity, but they can also trigger things like parioral dermatitis, acne. I don't like essential oils at all. There's really like no need for them in skin care. Does castor oil make your hair grow? I've seen people put in like their eyebrows, their eyelashes. People talk about it. There's no good data to show that. Lots of anecdotal reports, but it conditions things. So if your hair is breaking, it could potentially do that. They think with eyelashes, it just sort of adds some visible thickness because it coats the lashes. So it's not something I recommend, but it's also one of those things. You could try it.

Starting point is 00:20:09 Like, it doesn't hurt. Yeah. Using castor oil and place of moisture, we're going to rank that. See? Where did we put beef tallow? Was that D? I forget. I would put it where we put beef tallow. Because, again, like another sort of natural thing that can be used as a moisturizer, but it's just probably not going to be the best for most people. Did you know that the average half life of caffeine is five hours, meaning if you drink a coffee or matcha at 3 p.m, you still have half of that caffeine in your system five hours later when you try to go to bed, which delays your melatonin release and it makes it harder to fall asleep and get deep sleep. But I also get slumpy in the afternoon, which is why it's a perfect time to reach for AG1.

Starting point is 00:20:45 When I drink it, I feel instantly more awake with no jitters and no impact on my sleep later. It takes literally 20 seconds. I just do one scoop. I add eight ounces of water. I stir it together and it's done, and they have a bunch of delicious flavors. Ag1 is a foundational nutrition drink designed to support your whole body health. I think of it as the world's most bioavailable multivitamin, but then they went ahead and added all these extras like antioxidants, which my RD specifically told me to focus on after I got back some blood work, plus functional mushrooms that support immune health, which is so good this time of year. I feel like everybody is getting sick. And honestly, this time of year, all these things feel really, really important because routines are

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Starting point is 00:22:33 One of my absolute favorite feelings in life is right after a really good spa treatment when you feel so calm and relaxed and just like ooey-gooey in your body. Obviously, I cannot go to the spa every single week, but what I can do is recreate that feeling at home. And honestly, Osea is the biggest reason that I'm able to do that. It is the brand that I keep coming back to when I want a. moment in my home that actually feels luxurious and relaxing and not just like part of a routine. My two favorite Ocea products are the Undaria algae body oil and the Undaria algae body butter.

Starting point is 00:23:07 They are both incredibly hydrating, but even more than that, they have the yumliest smell that I have ever smelled. I cannot overstate how good this smell is. I give these out as gifts because everybody is obsessed with how good they smell. It's grapefruit, lime, cypress, mango, in Mandarin, and it smells like a five-star hotel on a Greek island. I've not actually been to a five-star hotel in a Greek island, but this is exactly what I would picture their spa would smell like. It's like warm and summery and sexy, and it's not cloying at all, and I am so sensitive to sense, and it's made with 100% natural essential oils as fragrance, which is really hard to find, and it does not give me headaches like a lot of fragrances do. The secret to the body oil is to

Starting point is 00:23:51 apply it while your skin is still really wet from the shower. I actually keep my bottle in the shower, so then I turn the shower off and I apply the oil and then I kind of like wait to dry a little bit. Both of them absorbed completely with no greasiness and what they actually leave behind is this gorgeous, dewy glow. It genuinely looks like you just stepped out of a facial, but it's your entire body and you smell so, so good. And the results are not just a feeling. A third party clinical study found that 100% of women showed significant improvement in moisturization and elasticity and 100% agreed that their skin looked firmer and less creepy. So it is delivering real visible change. It just happens to feel like you're giving

Starting point is 00:24:30 yourself a little spa treatment while you're doing it. Get a spring worthy glow with clean, clinically tested skincare from Osea. And right now we have a special discount just for our listeners. Get 10% off your first order sitewide with code Liz Moody at Osea Malibu.com. that is 10% off sitewide with code Liz Moody at os ea malibu.com. Being able to eat bread and pasta and feel good afterward is the definition of an ideal life. Luckily, there are a few ways to make the world's best foods like breads and pasta is even better for you. The first is to freeze them. Cooling your cooked carbs turns them into something called resistant starch, which is essentially a gut superfood.

Starting point is 00:25:14 Next, eat sourdough. Sourdough is fermented. it's easier to digest. It has better impacts on blood sugar. It has more bioavailable nutrients. It is also delicious. It has this really tangy, addictive flavor. But this is very important. So listen up. Most of the sourdough that you see in the grocery store is not real sourdough. A lot of the brands basically add yeast and they speed up the fermentation process and all these other ways. And the fermentation process is what gives the benefits. Which is why I am so excited to tell you about wild grain. Wild grain is the first baked from frozen subscription box for fresh, clean,

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Starting point is 00:27:25 title, your pillowcase is making you ugly. Your face looks like this. If your hair looks like this, or frizzy and puffy like this every single morning, or if your skin keeps breaking out on your cheeks in your jaw. I hate to say it, guys, but it might be from your pillowcase. Fair minimum, you need to be sleeping on a silk pillowcase, okay? Most people sleep. on cotton. But cotton traps, oil, bacteria, hair products, and dead skin, it's gross. Then you smear it across your face for eight hours a night. And I know most of y'all are only watching your pillowcase once a week. And if you're into vibrational frequencies like I am, you're going to love this less enough. Your pillowcase holds energy. So vibrates at around 10,000 hertz, making it one of the

Starting point is 00:27:59 highest frequency natural fabrics in the world. A lot going on there. Yeah. Is our pillowcase making us ugly? I feel like this is something that is constantly repeated. Like I think back to like the Cosmo magazines we would read. And one of the first recommendations for acne was like to change your pillowcase out on a weekly basis or a nightly basis. And I have lots of parents who come in and they're helping their kid with acne and they're like, yeah, I change his pillowcase every night. It's so rare for the hygiene of your pillowcase unless it is like truly soiled to greatly impact your skin. That being said, I do like a silk pillowcase because it really just reduces the frictional forces on your skin. So your face can kind of like slide more readily across it. So you're

Starting point is 00:28:38 not going to get those like sleep creases as much. So your skin gets smushed when you sleep on your side. And that can lead to etched in lines. Silk is also better for your hair because it doesn't make your hair all snagged. But in terms of silk not absorbing any bacteria or oils from the skin, that's not true. Silk can absorb things as well. Maybe not as well as cotton, but I wouldn't say that it will change your life. But I do like a silk pillowcase. Does it vibrate at a different hurt? I am not one to knock something just because I haven't heard about it. But increasing like your vibrational frequency is not something I. could speak to as a dermatologist with any amount of certainty or support.

Starting point is 00:29:13 I literally'm like, what expert could I get on to speak to that? Like a. Someone out of like Sedona or something. Okay. Yeah, I was going to say audiologist. Audiologist. Maybe someone who studies like neuro. Radio frequency waves.

Starting point is 00:29:29 But yes, I'm pro-silkillow case, but not for all of the stated reasons. But I would say like silk pillowcase for skin and hair, I would put it like a B-tier. Does it matter the like mulberry and the mom and all of that of it all? The quality of the silk to a degree and I think a lot of people do buy their silk pillowcases on like Amazon and things like that. And the issue I mostly have with that is you don't necessarily know if you're actually getting silk. So it's really important to just like purchase from a reputable source. Okay. This is from Ariel Lori who has been on the pod a few times. And she is really the face tape influencer of our time. Face taping is my jam. Help me understand. If you had told me 14 months ago that I would be not doing Botox and would be taping my face, I would be like, you're fucking out of your mind. Absolutely not.

Starting point is 00:30:14 Yeah. Use this Japanese face tape. And my routine is so simple. Like I do three strips vertically on my forehead and then like one diagonal next to each eye because again, like I sleep and it scrunches up that area. And that's it. I do it like two or three times a week at night. It takes two minutes.

Starting point is 00:30:32 I put it on over the skincare. And I wake up and things are like smooth. It's pretty crazy. Is face taping a good Botox alternative? I would not call face taping a good Botox alternative, but it can help support the skin and decrease wrinkling to some degree. So I don't think it's all BS. Is it just literally keeping your skin from scrunching up at night?

Starting point is 00:30:54 And are we making crazy faces all night? Some people do. So some people have a very active facial musculature when they sleep. Furrowing is really common. Like a lot of my patients will come in and they're like, I need Botox, not because I furrowed, during the day, but because my partner says they wake up with a scowl on my face, or they raise their eyebrows in their sleep, or like she mentioned, using it near the eyes to help with, like, the sleep creases. So not the dynamic movement of the face, but just sort of like the static

Starting point is 00:31:18 squishing that can happen. So it absolutely can help. I think there is true value in face taping if you want to go that extra mile. I don't think it's going to work as well as Botox, and I think a lot of people look at her beautiful skin and think that's how you achieve that. And in reality, and she's very open about this. She had Botox for many, many years. She takes exceptional care of her skin. She's done fat transfers and other things that make your skin really glowy and beautiful. And so if you were to take that facetaping routine and then do it for the next 10 years instead of Botox, I feel like that's more telling of what expectation you could really have in terms of how much it would preserve or slow down the aging process. And is face taping different than those

Starting point is 00:31:56 like silicon reusable patch things? Like frownies or something like that? And then also I've seen like the ones that you put on your chest or your neck while you sleep. No, these are all good. They're Acting essentially as like a splint for the skin so that it can't crunch in on itself, I actually really often recommend the ones for the chest because I have a lot of patients who have larger breasts and their side sleepers and things can kind of scrunch over. So there are little silk pillows that are almost like a little strap-on pillow that sits between your breast if you want to, or you can use the pads if they sit well on your skin. For a lot of people, they won't adhere well to the skin, and that's the issue they have or they have problems with the adhesive itself. But if you can

Starting point is 00:32:30 tolerate those things, they do help. And is there anything to the silicon of it all? I know that People use silicon for scar removal. So is that repairing in a different way, having a silicon patch versus like a tape? To some degree, I mean, I think silicone really the reason it works so well is it prevents water loss through the skin. There's some data to suggest in scars that it helps with collagen remodeling and makes it happen in a more organized way. Whether or not that works for undamaged or non-scarred skin, we don't know. It's not a bad thing. Yeah, my chest skin is like damage.

Starting point is 00:32:59 Yeah, totally. It's not a scar, but like that it's seen the sun a lot. You've seen it. You've seen it. You know. I feel like. chest get neglected over the course of your life and so they show things more. So doing things like facial taping or chest taping to act as a physical strut for the skin so that's not creasing. Think about that eight hours a night for over the course of your life. That's a lot of creasing. And if you can

Starting point is 00:33:16 prevent that, that can be helpful. But whether or not you want to commit to that, that's your sort of prerogative of whether or not that's worth it. Where do you rank face taping? I would put it as a B. I wouldn't say that it's an alternative to Botox, but it certainly can do good things for the skin. And we do it after all of our product? After all of your skin care, which can be tough. It doesn't adhere super well. Although the Japanese face tape that she mentioned is a little bit stickier, but I think that's the biggest problem people have is that it's just not like a practical thing to do regularly. They'd rather do Botox like twice a year. Yeah. Okay. This is just a video with text over screen, so I'm not going to play it, but it's Rachel Ha-ha on YouTube. And she says to sleep with diaper rash cream on your face

Starting point is 00:33:54 and you will wake up with clear skin and a healed barrier layer. Where do we rank that advice? I feel like I'm sitting heavily in like B-tier, but I do feel like that's decent advice because diaper ash cream is usually heavily zinc-based and zinc is nice and occlusive for the skin. It's calming and anti-inflammatory. It can help with a little bit of oil control. It's basically like a non-cosmetically elegant moisturizer when you look at diaper ash cream. So yeah, it's meant to like seal and heal a baby's butt. So there's no reason why it can't help your face as well. But it's not that fun to put on your face. But it works. Yeah, she's got a thick layer of white over her face in the video.

Starting point is 00:34:32 Do all these people have like bed partners? I don't know. There's the whole trend these days of what the morning shed. Yeah. And I'm like, first of all, it looks so expensive. It looks so time-kin to me. But second of all, I'm like, do these people have partners? Although I don't care.

Starting point is 00:34:45 I'd make Zach look at me in anything. Right, I was going to say. I mean, I'm like rocking the retainer and the bonnet and all the things too. That's fine. But then third of all, I'm like, doesn't this impact their sleep? I feel like I would not be able to sleep if I had like this mask on my face and this thing over my mouth and this thing on my nose and like 17 different things on my face. I feel like that would impact my sleep.

Starting point is 00:35:02 and sleep we know impacts our skin. Yes, this would make me like incredibly overstimulated. And it's kind of like diminishing returns. But like some diaper cream, I mean, it will probably ruin your pillowcase. So I would do a pillowcase that like you don't care about because it's so thick. But I do think it can work as like a nice moisturizer. If you're a person who feels like their barrier layer is compromised, is this what you would have them do?

Starting point is 00:35:23 Or would you have them do something else? I would probably have them use like barrier therapy for my brand because it's a little bit more, you know, nice on the skin and it's also very cheap. But I think that if someone wanted to, you know, you know, use a diaper cream, I wouldn't say that's a bad idea. I would pick one that's like non-scented and something they know they're not sensitive to. So I always have people test products like that on their inner arm for a week just to know. But I would be okay with it. I have a question about zinc. You said that that's why diaper cream is anti-inflammatory. I use zinc sunscreen. Am I getting

Starting point is 00:35:49 like anti-inflammatory benefits outside of my sun protected benefits? There's some thought that that can be helpful to some degree. You know, the coated zinc can be helpful for that. That's cool. Yeah. I love that. Zinc can also be drying though. So for people who tend to have dry skin, sometimes the mineral sunscreens or the zinc-based sunscreens can be drying or feel drying over the course of the day. So it's just something to be aware of. Yeah, I've found brands that I'm like really happy with, but I had ones years ago that my skin flake so much. So that's interesting. It makes sense. Okay. This is from Abby Young of the famous Abby Young method for hair care. Love her. She's talking about skin though now, and this is on Instagram. This is a close-up of my skin before I

Starting point is 00:36:24 even put skincare on in the morning. There's no smoothing filter on this. This is my real skin. I don't have a ring light on me and I'm 28 years old. I know. know that that's not old, but at the same time, I didn't protect my skin at all from the sun growing up and didn't start religiously wearing sunscreen until a few years ago. So based on that, I should have a lot more damage than I do, but I have found what I would consider to be the holy trinity of skincare. If you can only get three things, these are the three things that you need. I want to share it with you. First, antioxidants, that could be a vitamin C serum, but I personally haven't used vitamin C in about a year because I have been using copper peptides instead. This is

Starting point is 00:36:59 from the ordinary. It's incredible. It's made my skin so, so glowy, but whether you're using copper peptides or vitamin C, antioxidants are a must. Sunscreen, of course, I applied two layers of an SPF 50 sunscreen every morning and then reapply throughout the day. I love Asian sunscreens. I think that they're amazing, but it doesn't matter what sunscreen you use as long as you're making sure to apply it. Last is Tritonoin, which is like the prescription strength version of retinol. It's hands-down transformed my skin the most and is why my skin is so, so smooth. You don't need to buy expensive moisturizers and serums and cleansers. None of those products will do anything remotely close to what Trot and no one will do for your skin. Trust me, try it out. Thank me later.

Starting point is 00:37:38 Okay, I have so many thoughts. My first is like the fact that she has to start by being like, look how great my skin is and then you want what I'm having. I just, I do feel bad for you guys in this space that you have to be like demonstrative of your knowledge. Right. People are like, well, is your skin good? Like, you know what I mean? Totally. I feel like they talk about this a lot with like personal trainers, like you wouldn't pick a personal trainer who looks out of shape. You might not pick a dermatologist who doesn't have great skin. I don't think that's necessarily fair because a lot of what your skin is is genetically given. But it's true. I understand why people believe people more who show up looking like Abby Young, who has gorgeous skin. Do you feel

Starting point is 00:38:13 pressure? Certainly. I absolutely to some degree. I feel like I don't have great skin. It's there's people. What? I definitely have patients who are my age who have better skin than me. But I do feel some pressure, although it's rare that someone will, like, negatively comment on my video about my skin, which I find nice. But you kind of got to like walk the walk a little bit. How has your relationship with your own appearance been impacted by like both the public figure, but the dermatologist? It's like this heady soup. It really is. And it's tough. I think people online are like very honest and sometimes they're so nice and complimentary and sometimes less so. but I've just tried to think about people's sort of commentary as a reflection more of like themselves than of me.

Starting point is 00:38:57 Yeah. But certainly pressure. And I actually think it's why when we go to dermatology conferences as we see dermatologists get older, like into the 50s and 60s, sometimes they can start to look a bit odd because I think they feel the pressure to stay looking so youthful. And they go like a little overboard on some of the interventions when really it's better to just like let yourself age to some degree. But I absolutely understand that pressure. I feel it all the time. Well, and the main reason I want to flag this is I do think so much of our skin is genetic. and you can do stuff.

Starting point is 00:39:22 And obviously, you've helped so many people with so many skin problems over the course of your career. And I do think similar to when you see people with like, here's what I eat in a day to get this body or here's my workout to get this body or things like that. Like, there can be helpful advice. I've certainly shared the science-backed ways

Starting point is 00:39:38 that I've engaged in my weight loss journey. And I recognize that my body is not going to be like a fitness influencer. Like a lot of it is just genetic. And genetically, our skin is going to be predisposed to look a certain way. Genetically, our body is going to be predisposed to look a certain way. So I just want to flag that because as you're scrolling online and you're hearing all these promises, I think it's like important to have that in the back of your head.

Starting point is 00:39:57 I talk to my patients about that all the time, whether I'm talking to them about a skincare intervention, a laser that I might recommend. I tell them, I could give this same laser treatment to 10 different people and they could have 10 different responses. And a lot of that has to do with your genetics and how your skin responds to these various stimuli. Okay. So that all said, where do we rank if you can only get three things, make it antioxidant, Tretanoin and sunscreen. Is that the Holy Trinity? When it comes to anti-aging, yes, I have used those exact words many, many times on my channel. I feel like her and I are quite aligned in our recommendations in skincare. I don't really think of copper peptides as being solely antioxidant, but they support

Starting point is 00:40:37 the synthesis of collagen. So I like that if you can't tolerate vitamin C or you don't like vitamin C, a peptide is a great alternative. But for sure, antioxidant, tritoneone, sunscreen, the best. Is that an S-tier? S-tier. S-tier, for sure. nothing better. Okay, can you explain? I don't know what copper peptides are when I would know if I wanted to use them. Copper peptides are one of the more studied categories of peptides, and they work by supporting collagen synthesis in the skin. The tricky thing is getting peptides absorbed into the skin into a place where they can actually exert those positive effects. But when it comes to peptides as a category in skincare, copper peptides are one of the better studied and one of the ones I like. If someone

Starting point is 00:41:16 is already doing the Holy Trinity, adding peptides in can be beneficial. It might be diminishing returns for a lot of people so they might not feel like they want to. But a lot of my patients are kind of trying to do the most. And I do feel like there is value in adding peptides, specifically copper peptides and also like matrixol, which is another peptide that just helps with collagen signaling. And is vitamin C your favorite antioxidant? It is. It's the best studied, specifically elisorbic acid, which is a type of vitamin C. It is not tolerated well by all skin types. But if someone can tolerate it, we have the best data to support that it not only helps with collagen and Synthesis and slowing collagen breakdown, but it also can help with irregular pigmentation formation

Starting point is 00:41:55 and reducing that. And that's in the morning and then the tritonones at night. Yes. You technically can use vitamin C at night if you wanted to. It lasts in the skin quite a long time. But usually we think about it in the morning and your morning routine is really there to protect. And then I think your nighttime routine is there to correct.

Starting point is 00:42:10 And is there anything you would add on top of that routine? No. I think that's it. I mean, you want to cleanse and moisturize. But outside of that, like if someone is doing those three things in their routine, I tell my patients all the time, like you are solid. You don't have to add anything else and you are covering 98% of your skincare bases. Can I get a Dr. Sam Ellis S-tier product ingredient, not one that we've mentioned, and an F-tier product

Starting point is 00:42:33 ingredient? I feel like I have multiple I could think of for S-tier. One of them would be something you take orally, which is polypodium leukatomos, which is a fern derivative that helps with sun protective effects. People call it like oral sunscreen, which is a stretch for sure, but it can help you become more resistant to sun damage. And it's something I recommend to my patients who have sun-sensitive disorders or who spend a lot of time outside. Would it be something that you would need to take regularly or if you're about to like go to the beach for a week? It basically works within an hour

Starting point is 00:43:02 of taking it. So you can do it sort of as needed. So I have a lot of patients that they're going to like Hawaii, Mexico, they take a dose and then another dose like an hour later and then they kind top up every four to five hours. Oh, wow. Cool. Yeah, it can be really helpful. But still use your SPF. Still, yeah, not a substitute for sunscreen whatsoever, but a really nice option for people who need an extra boost. Wait, can I ask about Abby said that she does two layers of sunscreen? Yes, I love this advice. What? Fantastic. So it's not that she's applying more sunscreen because she's doing two layers, but there's two things that are valuable about applying it in two layers. One, you're not sort of like smearing the excess towards like the periphery. I feel like sometimes

Starting point is 00:43:37 if you have too much product on your hand and you're trying to put on the appropriate amount of sunscreen, you end up like rubbing excess on your hands or something like that. The other thing is the reason sunscreen works so well is because it creates this very even film that protects your skin. And the first time you put your layer on, you might have like little gaps or microscopic sort of like holes in that film. And by going in with a second layer, you're just ensuring a more even application. So I also apply my sunscreen this way and I instruct my patients to do so. How long do you wait between? Oh, seconds. It's not like you have to let it fully, fully dry down, but it's just so that you're letting like one layer get evenly applied and then you can kind of

Starting point is 00:44:12 go in with your second layer. Can I ask about hands? So I started sunscreening my hands after you told me to. But then every time I go to the bathroom, I wash my hands, I'm like, I'm not going to sunscreen my hands. I know. I think really focusing this on when you're going to have excessive sun exposure. So when you're going to be out or doing activities, whether you're putting sunscreen on, yeah, or like sunprotective gloves can be, yeah, hiking for sure. My patients who have kids who are, like, walking them in a stroller and have their hands up on, like, the stroller rail, absolutely sunprotective gloves can be helpful or sunscreen. I have a product request for you. Yes.

Starting point is 00:44:41 Which is a, like a hand cream, but it's got sunscreen in it. Oh, you know, we're working on them. It's not really. Yes. It doesn't exist. It doesn't. And it's really actually hard to do. I think it's crazy because everything's like kind of sticky.

Starting point is 00:44:53 And I want something that feels like a hand cream. And so I'm putting it on all day, moisture's in my hands, but it's also a sunscreen. Stay tuned. Oh my God. I'm so excited. Okay. F tier. I don't know if there's like a specific ingredient because to me it's like so obvious if something

Starting point is 00:45:04 should not go on your skin. But I think more so thinking about products that are in the like $150 plus range for anything. Basically, there's nothing that's like worth that much in skincare. You can find really good. moisturizers, cleansers, anti-aging products, all at a much more affordable price point. So anything that's touting that it's worth this crazy high price tag, I would really put it F tier. Is there any other skincare advice that you hear online a lot that you want to add to our tier list? In terms of skin care and things you can do, I think topical estrogen is something I get asked

Starting point is 00:45:37 about quite a bit. I think it's become a lot more popular or at least more people know about it, whether they're going through a women's health care company to apply topical estrogen or they're asking if they can use their vaginal estrogen on their face. And I would put that somewhere between like a C and a B tier, because if you are truly estrogen depleted in some way, you're in like perimenopause, adding estrogen topically to the skin can be helpful. We have really early preliminary data

Starting point is 00:46:03 to show that it can help with things like skin hydration and firmness and maybe even collagen production. But again, it's a bit of a safety thing because you have to ensure that you're not over applying it. you're not getting too much systemic absorption, which if you're applying it conservatively to like facial skin, for example, but a lot of it has to do with the formulation of the estrogen. But I think it's something worth exploring if you're like, how could I boost my routine even more? But until you are in like perimenopause, a bit irrelevant.

Starting point is 00:46:29 The other thing I get asked about a lot is oral collagen and whether or not that is something that can be beneficial for the skin. And I used to say, I would say previously I would have put this as like A or B tier advice because there were good systematic reviews that showed that it was helpful. but one came out in 2025 that showed that all of the studies that show that it's helpful are sponsored by industry. So that's a little bit tricky because there's also studies that weren't sponsored by industry that didn't show benefit. When it comes to skin health specifically in taking oral collagen, it can still be helpful for things like joint health. And there are a lot of people anecdotally who will say that oral

Starting point is 00:47:00 collagen has been very helpful for their skin, their hair, their nails. So I would put this as like C-tier advice. It wouldn't be something I would actively have someone add to their routine. But if they were already using it and taking it and liked it or wanted to use it for their joints, it would not be harmful to them. I just want to point out two things here. One, I love that you changed your mind when given new information. This is what science is. And yet, we punish people for it. You know what I mean? I think there's something really inspiring and helpful about you just like demonstrating. This is what changing your mind when presented with new information looks like. You have to do that. But I know, I understand why people don't, but I think you can't just stand by something because you said it once or twice.

Starting point is 00:47:38 And then the second thing is I do think people hear industry funded and they're like immediately that's bad. And I think it's a little bit murkier than that. Totally. Can you kind of explain a little bit how you look at a study like that? Is it just like you're taking it with a grain of salt? To some degree, I mean, it's different whether it's like a true drug trial because industry is going to be the only people that sponsor that trial. So you can't really take that out of it. And those trials, especially when you're looking at like medications and drugs are like very, very well regulated. Slightly less so in supplements. But that doesn't mean that it can't be benefited. information and that it's not an evidence-based trial. It just means that when they did the subgroup analysis for this particular one, we did see that it didn't show it. But I always take studies that are industry sponsored with a grain of salt, but that doesn't mean that they're completely discounted as being reputable. Yeah, love it. All right, this was so helpful. And again, if you're looking for all of the protocols for like redness, acne, aging, all of those things. We have hair loss. We have an entire episode about that. But for now, can you tell us where we can get more from you not on the Liz's Moody Podcast. Yes. You can find me on YouTube, Dr. Sam Ellis. I post a video there every single

Starting point is 00:48:42 Friday that answers a lot of the common questions that I get about skin, hair, nails, beauty, makeup, all the things. And then I also can be found on TikTok and Instagram at DR or Dr. Samantha Ellis. Yay. Thank you, Sam. Thank you. Sadly, that is all for today. Remember, if you want more from Sam, you can check out her longer episode where we dive into real science-back solutions for common skincare concerns like acne, redness. We also talk about hair loss. We talk about so. much stuff that is already live so you can scroll on back and find it right now. Let me know what other internet advice or anything else that you want us to rank in the comments and then make sure that you're following the podcast. You can see when your request turn into real episodes. I love you and I will see you in

Starting point is 00:49:23 the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. You've probably seen red light everywhere lately, and honestly, I was very skeptical of it. Like, how can one thing help hair growth and skin and period cramps and thyroid health and energy? So I brought Dr. Vivian Chen, who is the founder of Loombox, onto the podcast, and she finally explained the science in a way that made it all make sense.

Starting point is 00:50:01 The short version, Red Light targets your mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of your cells. So it literally gives your cells more energy to repair, regenerate, and function better. That's why you get these localized benefits like less knee pain or better skinner, calmer stomach, and more systemic energy. In fact, there are over a thousand studies showing benefits from quicker COVID recovery times to healthier thyroid function, to less depression and anxiety, to better joint pain, to skin health and hair health and scalp health, and all of these things because the red lights work on the mitochondria in the different places that you put it, and then it's also going to work on your body as a whole.

Starting point is 00:50:39 Dr. Vivian gifted me her red light and I dove into the research around it, and then Zach and I both tried it for over six months, and I loved it so much that I literally begged her to become a podcast partner so that I could get a discount code for you. I have been gifted so many red lights over the years. It is a perk of this job, and this is the only one that I feel like actually helps with those deeper issues. That's because it has something

Starting point is 00:51:04 that is called higher irradiance, which is essentially the dose, and a metric that a lot of red light companies do not even disclose. And also it uses red light, which helps with the surface stuff like your skin and stuff like that, and near infrared light,

Starting point is 00:51:16 which is going to penetrate deeper into your cells. You just put it over whatever area you want to target, so I'll put it over my lower belly to help with period cramps and it makes a huge difference. I use it for headaches, so I'll like put it over my head,

Starting point is 00:51:28 and it makes them basically go away. it's amazing. Or I'll just sit with my loombox during a short meditation or breathwork for mitochondrial support and having it like on my skin on my face. I've gotten a lot of compliments on my skin health recently and I fully give Loombox a lot of credit for that. Loombox is third party tested for radiance. Remember that is the dose.

Starting point is 00:51:48 That is the thing that most red light companies are not even testing for, much less disclosing, which is crazy. It's also third party tested for wavelength and it's FDA registered, which is so, so rare. I think of a lot of red lights is more like beauty gadgets and then this is more like a medical device that can also be used for all the beauty purposes too. Plus it's portable so you can use it anywhere on your body and you can also like take it on vacation with you. Now is the perfect time to try loombox. You can use my link for 40% off. Just head to the loombox.com slash liz. That is the loombox.com slash Liz for 40% off. This episode is brought to you by IQ

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Starting point is 00:52:54 So the key is to plan ahead. And I do that by keeping IQ bars in my car and in my bag. so no matter how busy the day gets, I already have a smart, healthy option ready to go. These were one of the bars that my personal RD recommended for me as I worked with her over the course of a year to lose 30 pounds in a healthy way, and I truly, truly love them.

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Starting point is 00:53:35 Fiber is going to be the word of the day this year, I promise you guys. They have more fiber, less sugar and carbs than other protein bars, and they actually somehow, even with all of that, still taste good, which is truly a miracle. The problem with so many protein bars is that you can either have the good for you ingredients or you can have something delicious, but not both an IQ bar somehow jumped in to solve that problem. So thank you very much IQ bar. Mint chocolate chip is my absolute favorite flavor, but there are nine different IQ bar options

Starting point is 00:54:04 that are all great, so try them all and let me know which one you like the best. Right now, IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products, including the Ultimate Sampler Pack, plus free shipping. To get your 20% off, text Liz to 64,000. Text Liz to 64000. That's Liz to 64,000. message and data rates may apply see terms for details Thank you.

The Liz Moody Podcast - Ranking Skincare Advice From Social Media (with Dr. Sam Ellis)

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