The Liz Moody Podcast - Realfoodology’s Courtney Swan — Eliminating Anxiety, The Health Benefits Of Masturbation & Touring With Rockstars

Episode Date: March 6, 2019

Courtney Swan (@realfoodology) has what appears to be a dream life: on Instagram, she’s constantly popping up in different awe-inspiring locations around the world as she tours with pop star Tove Lo. In this episode, she opens up about the secrets to her success and self-actualization, from what she wishes everyone knew about therapy to how she overcame her debilitating anxiety (I got her to share her exact supplement routine!). She also shares a few genius tricks she employed at the beginning of her career to become the successful integrative nutritionist/influencer/rock-and-roll manager/label-defying bad ass that she is today. Courtney is an incredibly cool women—one of those women that empowers other women and actually roots for their success. We recorded this episode sitting on her couch in LA, and it quickly got very girl-talky. We got into the crazy story of how her copper IUD made her incredibly sick, and veer from there into the health benefits of masturbation and the upsides of condoms. I love how frank and open Courtney is, and I hope you guys all feel like you were chilling with us in the California sun. For more from Courtney, check out realfoodology.com. Enjoy! This podcast is brought to you by Siete Foods, one of my favorite brands in the country today. They make better-for-you Mexican American food, including drool-worthy grain free chips, grain free tortillas, cashew queso, and hot sauces. I literally cook with their products daily—the cassava grain free tortillas are my absolute favorites; they have a great chew and don’t break apart when you roll or fold them. I also LOVE the Habanero Hot Sauce, which isn’t too spicy but packs in a robust flavor that elevates whatever dish you use it on. You can find Siete products in stores around the country, or you can order them online at sietefoods.com using the code LIZ for an extra 10% off. Come tell me what you think on Instagram (@lizmoody)—I’m so excited for you to fall in love with the brand like I have! This podcast is also brought to you by Four Sigmatic. I’m extremely picky about the food I consume, and after doing a huge amount of research on mushrooms, I’ve become not only a fan but an evangelist. I don’t drink caffeine, so I use mushrooms to help me wake up in the morning (cordyceps), focus in the afternoon (lion’s mane), and calm down in the evening (reishi). I also use the chaga to bolster my immune system on trips (either cross-country or just on the arguably-more-disgusting NYC subway). This stuff REALLY works, and now I rarely go a day without it. Get 15% off your order using the code healthiertogether, or visiting foursigmatic.com/healthiertogether. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Healthier Together podcast. If you have not been here before, it is lovely to meet you and lovely to have you here. I'm the host of the Healthier Together podcast. My name is Liz Moody. I'm a cookbook author. My new Cookbook, Healthier Together comes out April 9th. I probably will stop talking about it someday, but that will not be soon. And I'm a writer and editor, and I love all things, health happiness, the whole shebang.

The Healthier Together podcast is about, I call it the like I'll have what she's having podcast, because I take people who are not necessarily women, but a lot of women who live incredible lives, and I try to figure out all the secrets of how they got there, whether it's overcoming a health challenge or finding their dream career or connecting with a community that they love and supports them or any of the above or tons of millions of more things. So today I have a great, great, I'll have what she's having guest on. I'll get to that in a second. First of all, I just want to say I am recording this intro from underneath a sheet. I'm in Nashville on a little road trip with my dad after doing like a mental health retreat, which I will talk about later. I was completely unplugged,

no phones, no internet, anything for about a week in the countryside of Tennessee. And it was incredible. I'm still digesting the experience. But I'm really excited to share more of that soon. It helped with my anxiety. It helped with my feelings of self-worth. And I'm really, really excited to share all of that with you guys. But I'm just, I'm going to take a few more days, figure all of that out. But yeah, there's, there's no quiet place to record in this Airbnb. So I'm hiding underneath a sheet. So if this sounds weird, that is why. And I apologize for that. All right. Let's get into this week's guest. It is one of the coolest chicks that I've met. She's amazing. Her name is Courtney Swan. You may know her as the Instagram account at Real Foodology. And she, this chick lives,

like truly one of the coolest lives. She tours with Tovlo, who's a really famous singer. She goes all over the world with her. She has her master's in nutrition. So she helps keep everybody really healthy on tour. But she's also just like one of those people who you can tell like she's worked through her shit and she's still working through her shit. But she seems so at peace with herself and her life. And that's that I'll have what she's having component for me that I really attached to. And She's gone through quite a bit. She used to have really severe anxiety and was having panic attacks all the time. And of course, as somebody who struggled with anxiety for a really long time, I wanted to

dig into that and figure out how she worked through anxiety and what she continues to do on a daily basis to work through her anxiety. We talk a lot about her supplement routine, which I think has been a huge game changer for her in conquering her anxiety. We also talk about how she got this dreamy career. Like I feel like every time I'm on Instagram, she's in Australia. She's in Sweden, like jumping off of a dock with beautiful people. And I'm just like, how do you become somebody who's touring with rock stars all over the planet?

And she actually really, really surprised me with her answers to those questions. She's very much a go-getter, but she gives very specific tips about how to achieve your dream career and things that I hadn't thought of or heard of before. so I'm really excited for you guys to hear that. We also get into, it gets a little girl talky. I would say like halfway through. So I hope that you feel like you were there with us, curled up on the couch, just kind of like holding our mics and chatting about hormones

and women's bodies and all of that. Courtney, I love people who are willing to have the types of conversations that I feel like we're told as women aren't acceptable or appropriate to have, which is crap, I think. I think we should be talking about all of these things because it's empowering and it's good and it's healthy. So we go there. We talk about masturbation and we talk about the health benefits of masturbation.

We talk about her vibrator. We talk about women's hormones and sex and how condoms are actually much cooler and greater than they get credit for being. And we also talk about this crazy, crazy story that Courtney has with her IUD. She had a copper IUD and had a reaction to it that I actually haven't. heard before. And it really, really affected her health negatively. And she had to kind of be her own advocate and get to the bottom of things there. So we talk about that. I'll get into the episode now, but this is a really fun one. If you're interested in women's hormones for sure, if you're

interested in achieving your dream career and having one of those sort of enviable lives you see on Instagram, I think you're going to love this. And also, if you just like are in the mood for some girl talk. Oh, also if you have anxiety, this is a must listen episode. If you're flying, Panic attacks, any of that. You're going to love, love this one. You're going to love Courtney. You can find her on Instagram at Real Foodology. So definitely go and give her a shout in a little high after this episode.

And you can always find me on Instagram at Liz Moody. And come say hi there. Let me know what you think of this episode. I really, really hope you guys like it. And I'll get right into it. Enjoy the show. All right, Courtney. Thank you so much for being with me today.

in your cute little house. Thanks for having me. I love it. One of my favorite parts of doing this podcast is getting to see where people live because I always like to do it in person. And you live in, I think, my dream L.A. house. Thank you. She lives in like a cute little, like a guest house.

Is that what they're called? Yeah, this is technically a back house. A back house. Yeah. And it's like all airy. And I don't know. I just think it's like an actual little house versus like an apartment, which I think is so lovely.

Yeah. I agree. I love that. And it's nice because my best friends live in the front house. So I have my own space. I feel like I live alone, but I also feel like I have roommate so I can like escape when I want to, but then we make dinners all the time and watch movies together. That's like my dream.

I want to, my dream, dream, dream in life is to have a commune, but it's like a high end commune where everybody has like a tiny little house like this. And then you have like a really nice area where everybody like makes communal dinners and all of that. Because I think people on my podcast have probably heard me repeat it like way too many times, but like community is like the missing thing in wellness and in our lives these days that we are not talking about. and we don't have anymore and it's like affecting us in so many ways.

Yeah. Oh, I really agree with that. Yeah. Okay. So let's, I call this, I was telling you, I call this like the I'll have what she's having. I mean, it's called the Healthier Together podcast, but it's an I'll have what she's having vibe.

And I definitely think a lot of people look at your life on Instagram and are like, I would love to have what she's having. You seem so glamorous. You are traveling all over the world. You're hanging out with really cool, creative, interesting people. So can you tell me a little bit about your life story, like where that began. Did you grow up thinking that this type of life was like a possibility? Oh, that's so interesting.

No, you know, it's funny. I spent most of my, oh, I want to say most of my 20s, but a lot of my early 20s kind of feeling a little bit lost. Like, I don't really know what I want to do because I was kind of surrounded by a lot of friends that kind of knew exactly what their life plan was, what their career was going to be. And when I graduated college, I graduated college at 21 and I've basically just like, and I worked at Starbucks. And I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have a college degree. Like, I just really, all I knew at that time in my life was that I was really into nutrition. And unfortunately, I discovered that my last semester in college because I took a nutrition class and I was like, wait.

Oh my gosh. I should have majored in this. Why didn't I do this? But at that point, I was done. Like my degree was done. And I graduated with communication. And I was also very into music. So at the time, I spent a lot of my childhood and a lot of in college just thinking like,

okay, I want to do something in music, but I don't even know exactly what it is. So I graduated at 21 and I'd had these friends. I was telling you about them earlier in this band called 303. It's 3.0H3. And they were really good friends of mine in college. And when we graduated, they were like, hey, so their band started getting really big. And they got an offer to do this festival called Vance Warp Tour. and they knew that I really wanted to tour.

And they were like, hey, we want to bring you out. And at the time, I was thinking like, okay, they're going to bring me out to do merch or whatever. And I show up the first day and their manager is like, okay, you're their TM. Good luck. And I was like, what's a TM? Oh, yeah, it's a tour manager. So you're basically like, for lack of a better word, a glorified babysitter. You make sure that they get to their show on time.

You make sure that all the gear is there. It's like the person in the movies who's sort of like yelling at the people to not do drugs and like to get on stage. And I just saw a star is born. So it's like the brother character and a star is born. Is that like the tour manager? Exactly. Yeah.

I mean, you really like there's not really anything that you don't do as the tour manager. I mean, it was really fun. Wait, how did you know how, like if you never, had you even seen somebody be a tour manager?

Like did you have any idea what to do? And how did you learn it? Yeah. So because I had wanted to tour so bad and I wanted to work in music, I had surrounded myself by a lot of people that were working in music. So I had a ton of friends. they were already working as tour. So when we got on the Vans Warp Tour,

I had a bunch of friends that were tour managers. So what I did was I basically just like latched on to them. And every night I would go and like sit with one of my tour manager friends and just say, okay, give me all your documents, tell me everything I need to know, what do I need to do? Can I shadow you? Can I follow you around? And I mean, it was honestly the best thing that this band could have ever done for me because I was very determined and I'd really wanted to do it.

And so I just got thrown into it. And I mean, you just learn as you go. I was learning as I went. Okay, so you're the tour manager on the Vans Warp Tour, and how does that sort of progress? Are you like, this is great? I want to be a tour manager forever. You know, I almost immediately knew that I wanted to do that for a bit because I thought it was super fun, but I was like, okay, this is definitely not my career path, like my ultimate

career path. And I was kind of at a point where I was like, okay, yeah, this is so much fun, but I'm going to figure out something else. And I was a tour manager for like six years. something at that point because I, you know, working in that industry, you make friends and like I met different people and stuff. And so from there, I kind of bounced around to different bands. And then I hit a point where I was like, you know what, I don't want to do this anymore. I really, really want to work in nutrition. So during that time, were you traveling all over

the country, all over the world? Mostly just around the country. But with 303 and this other band called the Somerset, I went to Europe twice. Actually, with 303, we went on tour with Katie Perry. This was like right before she really blew up in Europe and it was so much fun. That show, I feel like must be bananas to witness too because it's all like cotton candy and like, you know. Well, this was before her cotton candy days. These were the like I kissed a boy or wait, I kissed a girl, sorry. And it was kind of more like like what was she what did she call the kitty cats or whatever? It was before all the candy stuff.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So let's talk about life on tour for a second. Is it as glamorous as it appears to be? You know, it depends on who you're touring with because I spent, when I was touring with 303 and then this band of Somerset, I mean, it's not as glamorous as you think, especially with the Somerset. We were living in a van and trailer. So we were staying at hotels every night and we were sleeping four to a room. So I was sharing a bed with the drummer, Jess. We were, we'd always make these jokes about sleeping butt to butt every night. And I mean, there were nights when we had to make the show the next day and we'd have to just drive overnight and we literally took two of the benches and the van out in the back and just had a mattress and we would sleep four deep. And then somebody would drive overnight. And I mean, I look back on that part of my life. And I'm like, oh, my God. This was also when I got diagnosed

as being gluten-free. And at the time, nobody had anything gluten-free. So I was, like, basically eating cans of tuna and oatmeal out of, like, my suitcase. Were you diagnosed a celiac or just like a gluten intolerance or? Just a wheat allergy. Okay. And I never actually got tested for celiac so I could be, but I just didn't get tested. Well, and you have to eat gluten to show up positive for a celiac test. Which is like nobody who's gone off it and feels better ones to do ever. Yeah, exactly.

So that was less than glamorous. But when you're touring, you tour now with Tovlo, who people probably know because she's a very famous thing. Amazing. But can you, what's the song that she has that like every single person knows? Habits. Is that the one's like, if you're talking body. Oh, that's talking about. That's also a really famous one too.

Which one's habits? It goes, oh, oh, oh, oh, she talks about being high. Oh, yeah. I want to get, okay, I'm not going to sing for everybody. I know, I'm like, I would attempt to sing if my voice wasn't so scratchy. So is that more like the glamorous thing that we all picture? Yeah, it is. Touring with Tove is really amazing.

We stay in really nice hotels. We each have our own rooms, so we're not sharing rooms. Does the whole, like, everybody who's on tour go stay in the same hotel? It's not like Tov is in the Ritz and the rest of you are in Motel 6. No, this is something that I really love about Tov too, because it's not like that with everyone. I mean, I have a lot of friends that work in music and I've seen it work both ways. Tov is a very sweet, very amazing, generous person. And wherever she stays, everyone else stays.

Like she really fights for that. If she's in a nice hotel, we're all in a nice hotel. So, like, really? That's like a game changer. It's a game changer. And she really takes care of the people that work for her. And it really, yeah, she's such an incredible person. Like, I could not speak highly enough about her.

So what are the less than glamorous parts, even when you're staying in the nice hotels and it feels fancy and all of that? Yeah. I mean, everyone thinks it's so glamorous. And there's a lot of glamour to it. But it's a lot of hard work. It's a lot of really, really late nights, really long days. I mean, you know, you think about like she won't even come off stage until midnight a lot of times. And then, you know, we're not back to our rooms until two.

And then we have to get up to travel the next day at 8 a.m. So it's a lot of not sleeping. Sometimes it depends on the tour, but we can be in like pretty dungy venues every day. And I mean, I don't know. It's hard to explain because I don't want to make it sound like it's like not great and not fun. But yeah, I mean, there's definitely days. Like, for example, if we play in a smaller venue and there's only one green room, or we call it a green room dressing room where like the whole band hangs out before

the show. And if it's a small enough place, there's one room and there's 11 of us, you know, and you have to think about, too, like some of these venues are really old and so they're not really taking care of and they're, you know, maybe kind of like dirty couches and stuff. And I mean, it's fine. I don't know. I even like hesitate to say that because I don't want to sound like I'm complaining or anything like that, you know, but, and I feel like there's this conception that it's so much fun and we're partying every night and like, you know, going out and doing all this stuff. And there's definitely those nights, but honestly, the reality is is that you're working and you're working really hard. So a lot of times, you know, she gets off stage at midnight and all

you want to do is just go straight to your bed and go to sleep. And it's not a crazy party all the time. It's a lot of work. So we were talking a little bit earlier before we started recording about how you've struggled with anxiety throughout your life. And I have two. Anxiety is sort of my number one wellness issue. And for me, anxiety, my anxiety makes me want to like control situation. So like if I'm going to go travel somewhere. I'm online researching where I'm staying to see if there's going to be noisy and I'm going to be able to sleep and stuff like that. How did your anxiety come up against the fact that you're on tour and you're not in control of your life in so many ways? It's really interesting. I kind of struggled with this a lot when I was younger, especially when I'd mentioned

earlier when I was diagnosed with my wheat allergy and we were basically living in a van and trailer, I would go to Whole Foods and I literally had this like bin in our trailer that was just stocked full of like tuna cans, oatmeal packets, apples, like nut butter and stuff like that because I was always, I was constantly anxious that I wasn't going to be able to find food that I could eat. But now I'm really lucky in many ways. First of all, the gluten free movement has completely changed the way we eat. So I can basically go anywhere now and eat something and it's fine. But also with Tov, part of my job is literally to go out and find us the healthy. healthiest food. So I'll wake up every morning or some, actually, I do this most of the time before I go to bed at night, but I'll research all of the like organic juice bars, healthy organic restaurants, organic coffee that I can find, anything I can find that's super healthy, whole foods, whatever

it is, close to the venue or close to the hotel that we're staying at. I mean, that's literally my job. I'm basically like foraging for healthy food for us every day without having to cook. And that's helped my anxieties a lot because I'm in control now of like the food. A lot of it too, though, it was just allowing myself to relax around it a little bit. And this was very hard for me when I first started. I remember when I first went out on tour with Tove. I hadn't toured in a couple years because I had gone back to school. I thought I wasn't going to tour anymore. And then when I got this email from her, I was like, okay, I really, really want to work for her. And I knew that I was going to be working more in a nutrition role. So I was going to be able to do what I really wanted to do.

I remember the first tour that I went on with her. I had so much anxiety about it because I was so used to being in control my food, being able to cook all my own meals. And the only thing that helped me was really doing my research and going, okay, I know that there's this organic juice bar. So I'm going to go grab, you know, a juice or smoothie for breakfast from there. Lunch, okay, I know there's a whole food's nearby so I can go and hit up the salad bar. Or I found this amazing organic place that makes these really cool, you know,

salmon keenwa bowls or whatever it is. And I don't know. there was just like this sense of allowing myself to kind of relax around that a little bit. And I started to kind of like, I noticed as the year went on and like would go out to dinner with my friends and not worry so much about it being organic and was having so much fun and just focusing more on like the socializing aspect of it and like the friendship of like being around my friends and having a good meal. And I just, yeah, I learned to relax around it a little bit. And I don't get as much anxiety anymore.

Do you have anxiety alleviating practices that you always do when you're on tour or? at home? You know, I do meditations, but I don't do them as often as I probably should. I find myself doing them more on tour. I'll do like headspace or something. I'll do like a little guided meditation. But to be honest, besides that, not really. A lot of what's helped me with my anxiety is learning supplements that help me out. So like astragonda and then Bulletproof has this supplement called Zen mode. And it is incredible. It really helps me with my anxiety. What's in it? It's ashtwaganda. I'd have to get it and read it out to you because I don't remember everything. It's It's like astrogonda, L-theonine.

God, I don't remember. I think there's Gabba in there, too. And do you take it every day? I take it every day. Okay. You take it as like a preventative. Exactly. Yeah.

So that and then honestly, therapy. Therapy has helped me a ton. I see my therapist once a week. Even when I'm on tour, we FaceTime. And that more than anything else has really, really helped me. So people always say both my parents are psychologists. I believe so much. And both of Zach's parents are psychologists too.

So like we're from a very strong psychology background. And I believe very strongly in it. But I also think it's interesting because it's hard. People always say, oh, therapy's changed my life, but they never say how or like in a specific concrete way, why it's so important and effective for them. Can you speak to that at all? Yeah. So when I was younger, when I was like 24, 25, I went through this period where I was having

insane panic attacks on a daily basis. Like my anxiety was so through the roof. And this was also during the time when I was really getting into health and wellness. and I did not want to get on any sort of medication. So I started seeing a therapist specifically for my anxiety and panic attacks. And I think what really changed everything for me during that time at least was that my therapist would always just started reminding me like, okay, for one, you most of the time are the only one that actually knows that you're having a panic attack.

And what usually would spiral me with my panic attacks, they would usually happen when I was in public. And it was very like social, social driven. So like a lot of social anxiety panic attacks. And I think what really helped me the most was having awareness around it and realizing that no one actually really knew that I was having panic attacks. And like I said, that was half my battle because I would start feeling anxious and that I would spiral into this whole thing like, oh my God, everyone knows.

It reminds me, it kind of sounds like when you like smoke weed and you're like, everybody knows I'm high. It was like, everybody knows I'm panicking. And then you spiral and it would make it so much worse. It was that and then it was also just realizing that I wasn't alone and then I wasn't the only one experiencing that. For whatever reason, I don't know if this will can anybody else can relate to this, but that was really kind of a turning point for me when I realized like, okay, nothing's wrong with me. That was a lot of my anxiety too, is I kept thinking something was really wrong with me. Something was wrong.

Like I have a tumor. Like something must be wrong or I'm broken or whatever it was. Once I realized that I wasn't alone that a lot of people were experiencing. experiencing this, that I wasn't the only person. And the fact that, like, I could be in my most worst crazy, like, anxiety panic attack situation. And people didn't know. I remember at the time I had a boyfriend and I remember like, and this is why it's so important to talk about this kind of stuff. I was so embarrassed. But then, you know, my therapist had kind of, like, encouraged me to start talking about it and started kind of normalizing it. So I remember I would tell my boyfriend,

we'd be leaving a party and it'd be like, oh my God, I spiraled out of control. I was having a crazy panic attack and he would look at me and be like, really? I had no idea. So hearing that too and kind of like normalizing it and realizing that a lot of it was in my head, not in my head. It was still real, but it was like I was the only one really experiencing it. It changed a lot for me. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. Okay, I want to take a brief, brief break to introduce you guys to a new sponsor who I am so, so, so, so excited about is one of my favorite food products in the world. I love them so much. And if you follow me on Instagram, you've probably already guessed who it is because I post about them literally all the time.

It is Siette foods. They are Mexican-American healthy food brand that make some of the best, most delicious food that I have ever had in my life. I grew up in California and Arizona. So I grew up obsessed with cassidillas and tacos and enchiladas and all of that. And when you start trying to eat better, it can be tricky to incorporate those types of foods into your life. And then, and then finally, Ziette came along and they truly changed the game. First of all, they're a family-owned brand and they're like the sweetest, sweetest family. Whenever I talk to people at the company, it's like real people and they remember real things about my life and they're so, I don't know, you just get the feeling that they're always like

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That was one of my favorite snacks. So I would do that with the cashew flour. Or if I was making maybe something with a breakfast, a breakfast type treat. I would use the cashew tortillas for that. I love them, love them, love them. I use them at least four or five times a week in my kitchen. And then some other products that I like that they make, they make their incredible hot sauces,

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Use the code Liz to check out some yummy. products. If you have any questions about any of their products or need like, what does the green hot sauce taste like? Message me on Instagram at Liz Moody. And I will talk to you for hours about Siette. I love them so much. All right. Let's get back to the episode. Do you ever get nervous about regressing to that place when you were having all the crazy panic attacks all the time? Or do you feel like you now have all the tools that you need to not do that again? I mean, it's not to say that I don't ever go into like a crazy state of panic. But yeah, I really feel like I have the tools now because I mean, it's so funny. I was just talking about this with a friend the other day. Another thing going

back to what really helped me with my therapist was that he taught me to recognize when it was starting to come on so that I didn't fully let it overtake me. And I was talking about this with a friend the other day. Like it's not to say that I don't ever experience anxiety anymore, but when it starts coming on, I can recognize it and name it and kind of be like, in a way, it kind of pushes it. bay because I don't let it overtake me because I go, oh, it's okay. It's just my anxiety. Like, it will pass. And kind of naming that and knowing that, like, it really helps me a lot. So that's, if you start to feel like a panic attack coming on, you're able to say, like, oh, this is a panic attack, it's fine. This is my anxiety. And that actually dissipates the panic

attack. Yeah, it usually doesn't come on. Or like a really good one for me. And I was just feeling this the other day. With my anxiety, sometimes I get this real, like, feeling of like doom and gloom like something really bad is going to happen and I always for the longest time I'd be like it's an omen something bad's going to happen and I remember like reading about this and my therapist telling me like oh no that is a classic anxiety sign so now that I know that the other day I was feeling this I was just like oh my god I feel this like I think like something is bad is going to happen and then immediately I go Courtney that's your anxiety that's your anxiety and then instead of like normally I would have kind of in a classic anxiety state let it circle in my head and just constantly like go around and

circles with it. But instead, now I go, I kind of like talk to it and I'm like, it's just your anxiety. It's okay. And I go for a walk or, you know, I take more Ashwaganda or whatever it is and I try to distract myself from it. And then I look back later and I'm like, oh, yeah, dissipated without me even really thinking about it. That's actually something I struggle with a ton in parts of the wellness world because people will tell me like, oh, that is something energetically that you should pay attention to or the worst thing, which is that like if you're thinking these negative thoughts, that's going to be the thing that's going to make them happen in like a sort of the secret way. I know.

Which I'm just like, I believe somewhat that, you know, your thoughts create your reality. But when you tell somebody with anxiety that you're like, my thoughts are fucking scary. I know. If those create my reality, I'm like screwed. Exactly. And like I said, then once you start thinking that like, oh my God, what if this really means something? Then that's how you get in that like circle, just you go in circles with it in your brain.

And I don't know. I just like I said that I've learned. at least with myself that I literally cannot allow myself to go down that path. So I just stop it because I have to talk to myself and say, you know what, Courtney? Okay. So if it does mean something's going to happen, there's literally nothing you can do about it. So just let it go. And I know what it's like.

I feel like some people listening to this were probably going to be like, oh, that's so much easier than it actually is. And I agree because I know what it's like to be in that place where you're just like, no matter what you cannot get out of that cycle. But it's a practice. You just start practicing it. You just start telling yourself these things. And over time, you'll be able to look back and be like, oh, my God.

But I really am able to kind of pull myself out of that. I have a friend who says that whenever she thinks she used to have really bad anxiety and depression, whenever she thought like a negative thought like that, she would try to break the cycle by thinking of three things she was excited about for the future. I love that. And it really helped her because it just switched the, it broke the feedback loop, which is, I think, what you're talking about. Exactly.

So you also had, we've talked about fear of flying. Yeah. Which is crazy. How many, I mean, how much would you say you fly in a year at this point? Oh my God. I mean, I should look at my Delta app and see how many miles I flew last year. But, oh, God, I don't know. I kind of want to like look.

Yeah, look at a lot. Yeah. I want to look and see. Ooh, actually, I don't know if it's going to tell me how many I flew last year in this because it just reset. I don't know. A lot. Roughly, like, would you say you fly how many times a month, roughly? At least two to three times probably.

And often it's international too, right? Because you're going to like Europe. for tours and stuff like that. Australia, I feel like every time I look on Instagram, you're like in a different place, which is crazy. But you were at one point afraid of flying. I was. So how did that work?

You know, I was talking about this with a friend the other day because she's like really going through it right now with her fear of flying. Oh, well, okay, it was a combination of me just kind of having to buck up a little bit because I was like either I'm going to have to quit my job or I'm just going to have to like go with the flow. When it was really bad, it was when I was with 303. three and basically yeah every time god i don't know it's so funny i'm having a hard time even really remembering how i got through it i think it was literally just like i just i had to do it

for my job and well there's another thing too okay so i really believe in a mom's intuition and my mom is very intuitive and i just i started this practice with her that any time and i still do this to this day it's almost like a little like superstitious thing maybe that i do but i was check in with her every time before I fly. And I really believe that if something was really was not going to be okay, that she would be like, Courtney, I don't feel good about this. Like, don't get on the plane. And I check with her every time. And I'm like, do you feel okay about this flight? And she's like, I feel fine. You're going to be fine. You're going to be great. So every single time before I fly, I text my mom. And no matter what, if I'm in Europe, whatever. So like, if I know that she's going to be asleep when

I'm actually flying. I'll check in like the day before. I'll be like, mom, I'm flying tomorrow. She's like, you're fine, you're going to be okay. And it's just turned into this, like, security blanket for me, kind of. Yeah, it's crazy. It really has helped me a lot. And it's not to say that I don't ever get scared anymore. I mean, if there's, like, a really crazy turbulent flight, I'll get freaked out. But then I also remind myself that no plane has ever gone down from turbulence, no matter how crazy it is.

So just kind of like, I did a lot of research around it, too, talk to pilots about it and, like, learning that thing about turbulence, which is what used to really scare me a lot. And then, I don't know, a lot of it's just trust. You have to just be like, you know what? either either I'm going to sit at home and not pursue my dreams and have fun and do my job, or I'm just going to, I'm going to trust that I'm going to be okay and that if something's going to happen, that's just my story, you know? Which you could probably say about fears of a lot of things, you know? I agree.

You either can live an exciting, big life that you want to live, sometimes even feeling the fear. That's what I, so I'm still afraid of flying and I fly quite a bit. And I can get myself to book the flight and get to the airport and all that because I'm like, I don't want to sit at home and I want to live this life. But I haven't gotten myself to the place where I'm not like not a pleasant person the entire time because I'm like pretty fucking scared. And every time I'm like, well, Zach, it was great being your wife. We had a good, we had a good run. I sometimes won't like make dinner plans for after a trip because I'm like, who knows if I'm coming home, you know? Yeah.

Which isn't great. We're working on that. But I have gotten to the place where I'm like, somebody told me I was going to die at 80 or even like anything. Like just die and having just stayed in one place and not done all these things I love to do. I would be like, you're crazy. Exactly. Which I think is important. Yeah, I think it's really important.

You just have to look at the bigger picture and be like, okay, well, I don't really have control over this. And I want to live my life. So. Okay. a pretty intense birth control experience that you shared on your Instagram recently. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Yeah. So I actually around this time last year had a copper IUD put in. Or you know what? It had to have been, or yeah, it was. It was around this time last year. I've done a lot of research. There's this woman who I love Dr. Laura Briden, who wrote a book about periods, everything about periods and birth control and all that. And she'd written in her book that out of all the birth control methods that if you had to pick one, she would do the copper IUD. You because it's non-hormonal and personally for myself and very against hormones for health reasons, but also because I've never been able to stay on the pill for longer than a month without just having crazy symptoms.

Wait, let's roll back actually super fast before we talk about this because I want, I feel like everybody's listening is like, well, she's credentialed in like tour management, but who is she to talk about hormones? So let's like roll back really fast. So after you, between 303 and Tov, you went and got your master's degree, right? Yeah. I got my master's in nutrition. Okay.

So you, like, know what you're talking about when it comes to, like, supplements and hormones and you understand how to read a study and interpret it properly and all of that. Okay. So now you can continue. Okay. I kind of lost my track where I was going. So hormones, you don't like hormones personally for your body. Yeah.

I mean, because a lot of people don't know this. But when you take the pill, it actually shuts your hormones off completely. It's not adding to your hormones or anything. It literally shuts off all of your hormones and replaces it. with synthetic hormones. And we still don't fully know what that's doing to our body. I know, like, when you're on birth control and you're bleeding, it's what's called a pill bleed.

It's not actually your period, which is kind of crazy. When I heard that and I learned that, I was like, this is not okay. Yeah. And you know that it's because one of the men who developed the pill was Catholic and he was trying to make the Pope, like, approve of it, which it obviously didn't end up happening. But he was trying to make it more mimic, like, a natural form of birth control, which would be acceptable to the Catholic Church. So it wasn't medically necessary whatsoever.

No. It's coutoing to a pope. Exactly. Exactly. And I think, too, they wanted an indication of like, okay, I'm bleeding. I'm not pregnant or whatever, you know. But it was, it really serves no other purpose than that. I love that story.

Oh, God. I just hate it. Okay. So you don't like hormones. You didn't want to be on hormones. And you told me before that you've tried the pill a number of times, but just for like a month at a time. Exactly.

And the few times I did, I mean, I just didn't like it. Like, it literally changed me as a person. Every time I'd go on the pill, I was just a monster, you know? And it's just, I didn't like who it was. I didn't recognize myself. And I didn't feel good on it. And also, like, from a health standpoint, like I said, I just didn't feel good about it being in my body. So I decided to put in the copper IUD. And I was really excited about it. Because I, you know, just started dating this new guy. And I was like, great, I don't have to worry about anything. I don't have to stress about it. And probably about like a month or something. so in. And at this point, I had not made any connection with the IUD whatsoever. Put it in, didn't even think twice about it. Did it not hurt? Like, my IUD insertion was the most painful experience of my life today. Oh, yeah. Oh, it was awful. It's like, it actually infuriates me because I feel like it's this huge example of the medical industry not respecting women's pain. Because I think if men had to do that, it would be a anesthesia procedure, 100%. Oh, 100%. Doctors now are just like, oh, like, take some Tylenol, like, you'll be fine. And it was excruciating, I thought. Oh, I was, like, low-key screaming towards the end, like, white knuckling the side of the bed. I mean, it was, like,

it was horrible. It was so painful. And it's crazy because you read, you read a little bit about how painful it is, but there is, like, no way to put it into words. Well, and I also think because we're told, doctors minimize that pain so much, so I think women feel almost foolish or embarrassed that they, that it was that painful for them. But then I'll talk to my girlfriends about it And I'll be like, no, it's truly like the worst pain of my life. Yeah. Horrible. I think that's problematic unto itself.

But you've had it in, but you got over it after like a month. It didn't hurt anymore. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, honestly, it hurt going in, obviously. And then for the first couple days, I was crampy and stuff. And then after that, yeah, I didn't even really notice it, which was good. But then fast forward about a month in, I remember telling my boyfriend and a few of my friends, I was like, this is so strange.

I'm starting to revert back to my anxiety days of when I was like, in my 20s. And I remember telling one of my best friends at the time, I was like, this is so strange because I thought, I thought I'd gotten a handle on this because I'd had all the tools. I was taking all the supplements and nothing else had changed. And at this point, I still hadn't thought about the IUD, but that was my biggest thing is I was like, nothing in my life has changed right now. And that was when I was able later to make the connection with the IUD because I was like, wait, that is the only thing that has changed. But yeah, my anxiety started getting really heightened. I started getting really, really, really depressed, which for me is not normal. I've never really had, like,

I think everybody can say that they've had little bouts of depression and then obviously some people really struggle with it. This was a depression to the point that I've never experienced before ever. I didn't recognize who I was. And then there was just this overarching feeling of like, I felt like something was very wrong. I felt like something was wrong. I remember towards the end, before I got the IUD out, I started telling my boyfriend, I was like, I cannot. not pinpointed. I can't place it exactly, but something is wrong. My anxiety is insane. I have so much depression. I was kind of getting thrown in. I know this is going to sound crazy. But I was kind of getting thrown into these weird, like manic things where I was getting like, yeah, I was feeling very

off. Like, it was very crazy. And it was making me feel like I was going crazy. I was like, oh my God, I'm going crazy. I'm having all these weird irrational fears and irrational things going on of my brain. And it was at that point that I started thinking like, wait, wait, wait, I wonder if this might be the IUD because I can't even remember how I came across it, but I had started just kind of Googling my symptoms a little bit. And at one point when I was Googling, IUD came up with the symptoms I was Googling. And I was like, okay, that's kind of strange. And I'd known this going in that something that can happen is with copper, if you have too much copper, so copper and zinc work in sync in your body, if one is off, the other is going to be a lot. And then it's

going to be off to. And I knew that that could be a complication. And if you have too much copper in your body, it can lead to anxiety. It can lead to depression. So once I remembered that too, and I started upping my zinc. And I was like, okay, I'm going to, you know, double the zinc that I'm taking right now to kind of counteract the copper in my body. And it wasn't working. Nothing was working. And I really, I wanted this to work so bad. So I was doing everything I could. I was doing all the research, trying to figure it out. But yeah, I mean, when I was Googling all the symptoms and everything, I was telling you this earlier, I started finding all these articles, and here's the thing. This is anecdotal evidence.

So it's just what women have said is their experience. There's no real studies done, which again, this goes back to our medical system. If this was a man's problem and birth control was put on the man, there would be so many studies about it. But there's none. The only studies we have are the ones that are paid for by the IUD company, by the pharmaceutical company. And that's exactly what I was finding. I was finding these studies by like the IUD company. There's like, you know, there's no issues.

There's no issues of depression or whatever. And so I started really digging deep and finding all these articles written by women about their experiences. And then what I also did was I remember there was a couple articles where there were literally hundreds of comments of women who were saying, I felt like, I was telling you this earlier that a lot of these comments I was reading. It was as though these women had like gone in my brain and written the comment for me. I was like, oh my God, this is exactly what I'm experiencing. experiencing like to a T. And so that at that point, I remember my boyfriend just being like, Courtney, just take it out. Like, we'll figure out something else. It's affecting you this bad. This is crazy. So I wanted to have a little bit more evidence, like to kind of back up my experience. So I went to my

doctor and I got a blood test done just to see where my copper and zinc levels were. Turns out, sure enough, my copper was like really raised, really raised. And I was taking zinc to counteract this. And that's in your bloodstream. So that's like the copper. from, because I think a lot of people would be like, oh, yeah, your copper is like, you have copper in your body. But, like, that means that the copper from the IUD in your uterus is, like, permeating your bloodstream. Exactly. Well, you think about it, the vagina is very vascular, which means there's a ton of blood vessels down there. So whatever's down there, tampons, whatever it is, like, it's going to get to your bloodstream.

And that's another thing, too, is they say that it just is localized to your vagina. I don't believe that. It's not true. And the thing with copper, too, that they don't talk about this, but I came across this when I was reading about my experience, when copper goes up in the body, so does estrogen. So you're not actually getting hormones in your body, but the copper IUD still has a hormonal effect. And that's what was happening to me. It was raising my estrogen levels. Which makes complete sense, too, when you think about, we understand, especially in wellness these days, how many things impact your hormones from what you eat to what you put on.

your skin to what you breathe in your air. Yeah. And so then it would make sense that this thing, even if it's not directly hormonal, like, it can affect your hormones, like so many other things can affect your hormones. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, and another thing I noticed, too, and I mean, this is, I'm sure a lot of women have this experience, but almost immediately, once I got that IUD put in, I was so bloated all

the time and it would never, ever go down. And it was crazy because I've never, I've just never had a problem with that before. I've always had a really flat stomach. And so I noticed it immediately, like when something changes like that, you're like, oh, this is so strange no matter what I did, no matter how much I worked out. And I had an insatiable hunger. Like, it was insane. Do you know what would have caused those symptoms specific?

Is that the estrogen going up? It had to have been, yeah. And almost immediately after taking it out, my hunger levels went back down. My bloating was completely gone. And then, you know, it took me a while to get out of the deep depression, the anxiety. that took like a few months. I also like unfortunately my boyfriend and I broke up like a month after I got it taken out. So that depression probably lasted way longer than it should have. But yeah, I mean, that was another thing too is I was really in it. Even after taking it out for a few months,

I still was not feeling like myself. It was crazy. I think the, yeah, the biggest thing for me was just not, I literally felt like a different person. I was like, I'm not myself right now. I do not feel like myself. Yeah, I just went off my IUD in December. And that was my only, like, everybody's like, oh, you're going to have a baby? And I'm like, no, I just want to know what I feel like without any alterations, which doesn't seem like it should be too much to ask for. Yeah. I know. Well, we were talking about this, too. I think it's so funny. And this is something I didn't know until a couple years ago because this has never talked about. But there's only a very small window in the entire month that you get pregnant. So I look at this and I think it's so crazy that we're on a pill 30 months

out of day or even an IUD. We're on hormones for 30 days when there's only like a five to six day window that you can actually get pregnant. And as we were talking about earlier, you don't necessarily even want to have sex when you're on the pill because of the effects your hormones so much. So you're having sex maybe a few times a month. You can only get pregnant a few times a month, but you're altering your hormones every single day. And that affects your mood. It affects your belly fat, it affects your energy, it affects your sex drive. Like we understand now how many things in our bodies hormones affect. Yeah. And it's just insane to me that, and I, you know, it's a personal choice. If you want to be on the pill or if you want to do an IUD, I think that's great. I did the

pill for 10 years and then I did an IUD for seven years. Yeah. And I don't think I'm like screwed. You know, I don't think I'm going to like die tomorrow. No. But I do think it's something that people should at least be more conscious of when they're thinking about it. Exactly. Whenever I talk about this, I always say, look, no judgment. If you know all the facts and you still want to be on the pill, you still want to be in the IUD, I fully support you. I fully support.

All I want is I want women to have all the facts. And I don't feel like we get all the facts. I remember when I was younger, being put on birth control for the first time, they didn't tell me anything. They didn't tell me any of this. I didn't know that it shut off my hormones. I didn't know that it was synthetic hormones that were. being replaced. I didn't know that it was a pill bleed. It wasn't actually really my period. I didn't

know any of this. And I didn't know any of the side effects. And I know like my doctor even told me, she's like, no, there's no way. Like you're not going to gain weight. You're not going to have anxiety. You're not going to have depression. And it wasn't true. And there's now studies that prove that that happens. And look, all of that is okay. If you go in knowing all of this and you still want to do it, I fully support you. I just want the information to be out there and everyone have access to it so you can actually make a truly informed decision. Also, I think that condoms get such a bad rap. I agree.

I think that there's this whole rumor, not rumor. Like, I just remember when I was dating, men were always like, oh, like, condoms are the worst. And even when I got my IUD taken out and I told my girlfriends and my guy friends that I was, they were like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? And I was like, oh, oh, my God, that's the worst. And I think that they're great.

Like, I have been so impressed with condoms because, when you use a condom, you have this moment between when you actually start having like penetrative sex. Yeah. And when you are not. And it makes for me, I have so much more foreplay because I have to like get up and get the condom to start actually having sex. And so we'll be like, oh, you know, put that off, put that off, put that off. And then we'll have this great foreplay and have sex that's so much better for it. I love that.

Right. And just like rolling it over and sticking it in. Exactly. Yeah. And there's some great, I use Lolas, but I think there's some amazing sustain makes. There's great non-toxic. Also, when I was having sex before Zach, I was using, like, Trojan, like, twisted pleasure. Like the bright green pack and condoms have gotten much better.

Back in my day. Back in my day. Yeah, it wasn't great. Yeah. And actually, it's a good thing to talk about those, too. Because the Trojans and stuff like that can, like, throw off your pH balance and then, like, lead to yeast infections or whatever. So just get a good brand, like, sustain or,

I think Lola is one that I used to. That's a good one also. Yeah, they're great. And they do subscription model. So you can like, yeah, I like was very enthusiastic with my account. And Zach was like, all right. Like that's ambitious. But we'll try.

But I'm off birth control. Yeah, maybe I'll be more than that. Maybe I'll be hornier. It's going well so far. How do you, one thing I always love to talk about because I think there's so much misinformation going around in the wellness world and people are like, use this adaptogen and maybe it's not great for somebody's body, but you've studied this stuff a lot. Where do you get your information and how do you decide if it's valid?

Ooh. As far as like what supplements to take? Supplements to take studies to trust. Like when you're deciding what to do with your body or with a client or something like that, how would you decide? Well, first of all, if I'm looking at a study, you always want to look and see who actually paid for the study. And it will always say it in there. and that's like a huge indication. If you're reading about, I mean, this is just an example,

if you're reading about Ashwaganda and it's paid for by the Ashwagana company or whatever, you know, like you have to take it with a grain of salt. So you want to look for like a third party study. And there's a lot of, especially when it comes down to like supplements and stuff, there's a few different websites where you can go and you can actually type in the brand of the supplement. And it will tell you all the third party testing on it and if it's non-GMO and stuff like that. And I wish I could remember the web, I can give them to you later. Yeah, give it to me and I'll put them in the show notes.

Yeah. So there's definitely a lot of. great resources to go and actually look that kind of stuff up. And that's just, you know, and another thing, too, like, I've spent so much time studying and researching and now I kind of know the brands that I trust and love. And then I just kind of stick with them. I just always have thought that's one of the things that makes you different than a lot of the influencers, quote unquote, out there is that you, you do feel very well researched. And that's nice because there's so much shitty information going on. What supplements do you take every day?

Oh, God. I mean, I should show you the box of them. I have like 20. supplements I take a photo and I'll put it up when I put the episode up. But yeah, just like roughly, what do you take and when? Like if you walk me through your daily routine. Okay. Yeah. So in the morning, I take, like I said, I take around like 18 to 20 supplements. I can't remember the exact count right now. But it's a lot of your standard, you know, probiotic, fish oil. I take vitamin C for immune health. I take a liver supplement just to like support the liver that has like milk thistle and dandelion. It's really good for detoxification. Do you take that because you're doing stuff that's a strain on your liver or would you take that regardless because life is sort of strenuous on a liver?

I mean, I love my wine. The girl loves her wine. Organic, of course. But no, I mean, it's not that I even feel like I need it because I'm like drinking so much wine or something. It's not like that. It's more just, it's good to support the liver, especially with all the like environmental toxins, exposure to plastics, like endocrine disruptors and stuff like that. It just helps to like keep your liver, you know, clean and out and just healthy. Oh, and enough. Another really good one that I take that also supports detoxification pathways in the liver is calcium deglucrate. And, ooh, this is a good one bringing it back to hormone health, actually.

So calcium deglucrate and glutathion are supplements that I take. Glutothion is an antioxidant that the body produces. But over time as we age, we don't produce as much or depending on, you know, your diet or whatever it is. And they both really help the detoxification pathways in the liver. and it's really good for if you're coming off hormone birth control because calcium Dglucrate and glutathione both help push out excess estrogens. So as you're coming off birth control, you probably have a lot of excess estrogens.

And so this is what I really helped rely on when I was coming off the IUD. There's a lot of calcium deglucrate, a lot of glutathione, and I really did notice a difference. Wow. Okay. So, and do you take anything like at nighttime to help you sleep or anything like that? Yeah. So at night I take almost every night there's a, I just love bulletproof supplements so much. I think Dave Asprey really does his research and really puts out quality stuff. So I take bulletproof. I think it's called sleep mode almost every night. And then I also drink something called calm, which is a magnesium supplement. I love that one. I love magnesium. I love magnesium is like I feel a noticeable difference. I take pure capsulations. And if I take two, which I call like overdosing on magnesium, I like I feel instant. anxiety relief, which I love. Yeah, it really does help with anxiety a ton. Yeah. So if somebody looked at your life and said, I want her life, like it seems so cool, you know the coolest people,

you're so healthy. Is there something you would tell them? Oh, God. I mean, I feel like there's so much I would want to say, but how is it going to come out of my brain? I mean, it's so easy to look at somebody's highlight reel on Instagram or online or whatever and be like, oh, they live such a perfect life, but my life isn't any more perfect than yours. I struggle with anxiety. I struggle with fears. I struggle with feeling like I'm not enough all the time. And I think that's a normal part of life, but you kind of have this balance of that

and also like really appreciating your life. So yeah, I mean, there's, I'm not going to sit here and say that I don't love, I love my life. I'm very grateful for my life. And pretty much almost every morning I wake up like pinching myself just being like, God, I feel so grateful and lucky to live the life that I live. But, you know, I worked really hard to get where I am too. and I would say maybe like use that as fuel.

Like if you're saying like, oh man, I want to do what she's doing, use that as fuel to work really hard because that's what I did. I remember when I was younger in my 20s working at Starbucks. I mean, oh my God, okay, I was working at Starbucks and working at a sushi restaurant, barely making ends meet. My parents had to help me pay my rent at the time because I was not making any money. I wasn't sleeping. I was crying in the bathroom every day.

Every day at work, I would go and sob in the bathroom because I was like, I just, I hate my life. What am I do? But I remember at that time also just being like, okay, just I'm going to put my head down. I'm going to focus on what I want to do. I'm going to get really, really clear in what I want to do. And, you know, at the time there was people that I was really looking up to. And in the nutrition world, for example, there was all these people that I was like, I want

their jobs. I want to be doing what they're doing. And I started reaching out to them. I would write them emails. I would write them. Well, this was like before Instagram. So I've slid in like a few people's DMs, like more recently that I really look up to. but I just kind of, I would look at people's lives that I really wanted and look up to them and use that as fuel and be like, okay, one day I'm going to do that.

What are they doing and research their stories and find out how they got to where they're at? Write them emails, ask them for advice, ask them how you can get involved in what they're doing. And I really think that that's what really helped me get to where I am. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. All right. Let's take a brief break so I can introduce you to one of my favorite products on the planet. You know anything about me, you know that I can't do caffeine. It stokes my anxiety and it makes me feel really crazy.

And I was always so jealous of anyone who could reach for their morning cup of Joe and feel wide awake and also look really cool with their like mug and all of that. That was never me. But now I have my mushrooms. And by that, I'm talking about four-sigmatic. They're basically medicinal mushrooms, not psychedelic, although my dad was very concerned by that when I told them that I was obsessed. And they come in these super convenient little packages that I staff. in my backpack, so I have them wherever I go. In fact, most of the time when I'm at a coffee shop or at a cafe, I'll just order hot water and then I'll mix in one of my four-sigmatic packs so I can

save some money, and I don't have to worry about them not having a tea that I like, which happens quite often because, as you can imagine, I have quite strict standards for what I consume. So there are a bunch of different kinds of the mushrooms, and each one has different benefits. So I take a cordyceps in the morning to feel awake, and then I take Lionsman when I'm feeling that 3 p.m. slump, and it really helps me kind of focus and not want to, I don't know, go read a million blogs instead of doing my actual work. And then I take Rishi when I'm feeling stressed out or anxious, which for me, again, if you know anything about me, is quite often. I've turned into a bit of a mushroom evangelist at work and with my friends. People used to come to me for a tea to heal

every ailment, I'd open up my tea drawer and I'd be like, oh, here's your blend for this stomach ache or if you're feeling anxious or tired. But now I am a mushroom evangelist and people come to me find out which room they should use for whatever's wrong with them. People also ask me about the taste a lot and I actually don't like culinary mushrooms very much. It's a weird thing about me. If you read my cookbooks, you'll notice that there aren't a lot of mushroom recipes in there because I just don't love them. They turn my stomach a little bit. But I find the four-sigmatic mushrooms

to be really earthy and grounding. And I like the new formula. A lot of their new formula ones don't have any stevia or sweetener. And it's kind of an herb-y, and it's a really subtle flavor. Okay, it's grounding. Grounding is like the main word I would go for.

It just instantly sort of makes you feel calmer and more present and whole, I think. I'd think of like an herb tea or a chai but less spicy than a chai. So just sort of that herbie, rudy, grounding vibe. They also have a ton of flavored stuff if you prefer that. I'm loving their chai lattes recently. They're so, so good. They're also caffeine-free, which is hard to find in a chai.

They're amazing. And then they also have a golden milk latte, which is new. And I am 100% obsessed with. that's one of my favorite morning drinks. I took a bunch of them when I went back to California recently, and I used them all up on day three, and it was very sad about it. So if you want to try them yourself, and I highly recommend that you do, clearly, it's become one of my absolute staples.

You should see my desk. It's piled with four-sigmatic boxes. Go to four-sigmatic.com slash healthier together. that's F-O-U-R-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-C dot com slash healthier-H-E-L-H-H-I-E-R-T-E-R. You can also get 15% off using Healthier Together as a code, although you barely need it. They're not one of those, like, wellness products that costs a zillion dollars for a teaspoon, and you don't even know if it's working. They're really, really affordable, and the kind of thing that you can actually incorporate

into your day-to-day life, so I love that. And message me on Instagram if you have any questions about them. I love talking about mushrooms, and I've done a ton of research on them, and I'm really a believer, which I don't say about very many things. The evidence keeps stacking up for their short and long-term benefit, so I definitely recommend you get in on that. Again, use the code healthier together, and enjoy. Come and tell me if you like them, for sure, because I'm 100% obsessed, and I want to talk

about it with people. So come and tell me. And all right, without further ado, let's get back to the conversation. I love the idea of you seem very good at asking people for advice. Like when you were starting as a tour manager and you didn't know how to do it, you found everybody you knew who did it. And I think that there's an art to asking for advice. Is there any tips you would have for like writing those emails or asking people for help,

especially when I think people feel like it's often very transactional. And if they're asking for help, they need to have something to offer and return. and they don't feel like they have that. Yeah, I mean, I don't think you need to have anything in return, you know, because I mean, like, constantly a pay it forward kind of thing, you know? Like, I think about, like, if people write me and they say, I love what you're doing, how did you get there? I don't feel this sense of like, oh, well, what are you going to give me?

You know, I see it a sense of, like, paying it forward kind of thing, you know, like, so many people helped me when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, and I didn't have anything to give back to them. And so, I mean, it's really just a matter of, like I said, just reaching out and don't feel like you owe them anything. Just, you know, give them a compliment and be like, I look up to you so much. And I just want to do what you're doing. You know, how can I get there? And I mean, unless if they're just a horrible person and let's hope that they're not, like, they're not going to, they're going to write you back.

You know, they're going to be so flattered that you even care. And again, like I said, like they're probably going to see it as the same kind of thing. Like, hey, I wouldn't be here with all of the people that helped me out that I got, that I reached out to. I also think that there's something to be said for doing maybe a person who's a few levels below that like if you want to be a politician, don't reach out to Barack Obama and ask how he got there, but reach out to like a local congressman and ask how they got there. If you want to be a dietitian, maybe not the bestselling author, but somebody who you've

followed on Instagram and you admire their work and something like that. Exactly. Do you ever still get jealous? Oh, of other people? No. But you know what, to be honest, jealous is just not really my thing. I've never really been jealous. I mean, the only thing that I really struggle with is I'll go into like a comparison trap, but it doesn't come from a place of jealousy. Because I've always felt like there's room for everyone. Because everybody, you're so unique that even if you're doing something similar, even if you literally want to do the same job that I'm doing, you're still going to do it differently than me because you're going to have different assets, different uniqueness. You're just going to have you to bring to the table. And I'm not you. Just like you're not me. I bring something different to the table.

So I've always felt like there's room for everyone. It's not a competition. Like, let's help each other out because just because you're doing really well is not threatening to me. I see it as an asset. I see it as like, oh my God, this girl is killing it. I want to work with her, not against her, you know? I love that.

Okay. I have a few questions that I ask everybody. And I'm really excited to hear your answer to the first one because you have traveled so much. Is there a place in the world that you've been ever that you feel like people really got it right in terms of health or happiness. Ooh, oh, that's so good. You know, if we're saying both health and happiness, you can separate them too if you want. Okay. Well, I was going to say, like, them together, I would really say Australia. I mean, there's a lot of things about that country, too, where they're,

like, kind of behind the U.S. right now as far as, like, bad eating habits. But, man, did they get breakfast right? Oh, my God. Everywhere you go is, like, avocado toast with poached eggs and everything is, you know, organic and so fresh and, like, so much fresh fruit. And, like, so much fresh fruit. And, I mean, I feel like it's pretty hard to not be happy when you're in Australia because the sun is just constantly shining bright. But I would see Australia. And then as far as, like, health goes, I would say Scandinavia. I remember, oh, my God, this makes me so happy. We did a festival in, I think it was Norway, like two years ago.

And we show up for this catering. And normally when there's a festival and it's catering, especially when you that you are in the U.S., the catering is awful. think like Cisco and it's just like a bunch of fried junk and whatever. And we show up to this festival in Norway. And it's so funny because they didn't like obviously they don't know who I am. It's not like they knew my Instagram or my blog or anything. But like I walk up and they're like, hey, welcome. So everything's organic. We grew all the food in our backyard. You can see it behind over here. And everything is like fresh and blah, blah, blah. And I was just like, I almost started crying on the spot. I was like, God, I love you. I just love this. And pretty much anywhere you go in Scandinavia, it's like that.

They have very strict rules on what kind of food or what kind of additives are allowed in their food. They don't allow a lot of pesticides. They don't allow glyphosate. And that's like countrywide. So you can basically go eat anywhere you want. They don't have factory farming. So you can go like eat meat somewhere and not have to worry about it being organic. And I just think, yeah, they really got it right.

You know, I like want to move to Scandinavia for some short period, but I'm so nervous about the winter. I know. Then winter is really bad. Well, and that goes to the, like, happiness part. Unfortunately, in like Sweden, for example, their suicide rate is so high because they don't get any vitamin D during the winter. I mean, it's crazy. Wait, I thought that they, like, Scandinavia was always on, like, the top of the happiness indexes. Do you, they have a really high suicide rate?

I thought that, too, but according to my Swedish friends, they have a very high suicide rate because in the winter, there's some places in northern Sweden where they literally don't see the sun for like a month. It's just blackness all the time. And then during the summer, alternatively, this is crazy because I experienced this. We went to really northern Sweden in this place called Umi-Umi-U-M, I think is how you say it, in the summer. And we were out drinking at the bars until like 2 a.m. And we were walking home and the sun was still up. And that can mess with you equally as much. Yeah, it messes with your circadian rhythms for sure.

Yeah, we were talking earlier about you're a night owl and the power of living your life in accordance to your circadian rhythms, which I think people don't give enough credence to. Yeah. Like getting sleep when your body should be sleeping, not just when, like, the world. world tells you to sleep. But yeah, when the world is messing with that, with the sun. Exactly. It's really hard. So yeah. And even when you're in Stockholm, which is pretty southern Sweden, in the winter, the sun doesn't come up really until like 9 a.m. And it sets at like 233 p.m. And I lived in England, the sunset at 3.30. And it was, it's really hard. I mean, I was having a lot of mental health problems then anyways, but it was emotionally, like, really, really hard.

So what's one really big mistake you made in your life and one thing you feel like you really got right? I think my biggest mistake would be having not started going to therapy when I was younger and starting to really do personal work on myself because I would have saved myself a lot of my self-doubt. I think I would have saved a lot of relationships when I was younger. I think I would have gotten a truer, better sense of who I was if I had started doing that deep work when I was younger. And look, here's the thing. I don't really believe in regrets. I don't believe in like looking back and being like, I wish I'd done something different, I really truly believe, like, if I hadn't gone down the path that I had, like, I wouldn't be where I am today, you know?

So it really did bring me where I am. But I do wish now being in my 30s and really diving deep into like a lot of personal work and a lot of therapy and, you know, mending relationships, mending the relationship with myself and really learning how to just like accept myself and love myself. Yeah, like I said, I regret not having started that journey sooner because I think ultimately that's like literally the most important thing you can do because you can't show up for anybody else until you were able to show up for yourself first. And something you really got right? I mean, not to sound like a broken record. Well, say what I got right is like dropping the stigma of going to therapy and admitting that like I want to get help with myself

and everything. I think, I feel like I really got that right because I look at some, I don't know, I don't want to sound like it's like, I mean, judgy or anything like that at all because it's not what it is, but, you know, I have some friends, like one in particular that I'm really thinking of that I think would really benefit from getting therapy and just like talking out her feelings and issues and stuff. And I'm, yeah, I just feel like I'm very glad that I kind of surrendered myself to be like, you know what, I'm not perfect. And I want to do a lot of personal work and dig deep into therapy and just, like, figure out my life. Do you have any tips for finding a good therapist? Because I always, like, joke that I can afford to go to therapy, but I can't afford the process of fighting a

therapist and, like, seeing five people and having the sessions not count, essentially. I know. Well, I mean, the only thing I can say is that you probably know right off the bat in the first session whether or not it's going to be a good fit. So don't be scared. Like, you know, like, you. don't feel like you just have to go back because you're like scared to let somebody down. If it's not a right fit for you, that is fine. The therapist is going to know that's okay and that's fine. Because ultimately this is your journey. And also don't get discouraged. If you find one bad therapist or one that doesn't fit right with you, I mean, it's just the same with friendships. It's the same with dating. Like not everybody's going to work for you. And that's

okay. But yeah, I mean, it really is kind of just like a trial and error kind of thing. And maybe at some, if you don't have a lot of funds for therapy and to figure this out, like, I know a lot of therapists do a sliding scale. And you can even write them and be like, hey, I'm a little bit nervous about what if this doesn't work out. Is there any kind of price that we can work out for the first time just to like try you out? Yeah. That's really smart. I love that. I also think it goes along with the like, if you ask, often you can get things you didn't even dream about. Exactly. You never know until you ask. Never know. Is there something that you have purchased that's major life, healthier, happier?

I would definitely say my vibrator. 100%. I wish I could remember the name of it. It's a wee vibe, but it's not the one that you use with couples. It's one that you use alone, but you can also use with couples, which is like a game changer. Is it like a bullet shaped one? Or is it like? No, it's like, oh my God, how would I describe it?

For lack of a better word, it kind of looks like a little puppy paw with like a point at the end. Okay. And it's purple. And it is amazing. Do you use it? Like, do you talk often about masturbated and the, like, do you think that's an important part of a wellness practice? Absolutely. Yeah, and I don't think it's talked about enough at all because I feel like everyone or a lot of people get very like squirmish talking about it, especially as women.

Because you know as men, it's like praised. Yeah, but as a woman, it's like, oh my God, she's like a little flower. She can't be talking about that. F that. Seriously. Like, I think more women need to be talking about it because, yeah, it's therapeutic. It's like therapy for you. You know, you release hormones.

It makes you feel better. It makes you feel sexier and more confident. You go into the world just feeling like, yeah, like, I feel good. And it is, it like boost your immune system. It has a number of like very, I always like sometimes if I after I've masturbated, I give myself like a pat on the back because I'm like, it's like taking a supplement or something where you're just like, like I do it because I enjoy it. And I also find it's hugely helpful for anxiety.

Yes. I think it's one of the under talked about things as a way to alleviate. anxiety. I agree. But I pat myself in the back after, oh, you just boosted your immune system and, like, balance your hormones. And you go, Liz. Like, oh, girl. Good job. Yeah. You're glowing. Yeah, it makes your skin glow. It's so, yeah, I think it's so good for people. And so many women I know, not only do they not do it, but they don't know how to do it because we're not talking about it. So they would never, like, say to their girlfriend, like, I can't bring myself to orgasm when I masturbate. Like, what am I doing wrong? Yeah. And I also don't, like, I think the tools are, great, and I'm glad that you love your vibrator, but I also think you don't even need that. I agree. There's so many ways to enjoy your self-love life, and we don't talk about it all. Exactly. And I think because we don't talk about it, there's a lot of, like, shame involved around it and almost like fear of talking about it.

I mean, I will forever be thankful to a girlfriend of mine when I was younger who at the time, I was feeling a little bit like fearful to talk about it and whatever and had never even tried masturbating or using a vibrator. And I have a girlfriend that literally just bought me one for my birthday and was like, oh my God, that's amazing. And that's a good friend to have. Still to this day, I'm like, girl, that was like the best thing you could have ever done for me.

Did you do it on tour when you were like in the four people to a bed room? No, not then. Okay. How does that? How does sex on tour work or like both masturbation and sex on tour? I mean, it really depends on the situation. Like with with Tove, the way that we travel, I mean, that's easy. We have our own hotel rooms.

And then when we're like on tour in the U.S., we're on a bus. We have our own bunks. And when the bus starts, it's really loud. You can't hear anything. But yeah, I remember, sorry, mom, if you listen to this. Like when I was younger on tour, yeah, I mean, you would just wait for the bus to start. And the bus is so loud that you could have sex because nobody could hear you. So it was like.

So is that like a thing? Like, is it like if the curtains close don't come and knock in type thing? Kind of, yeah. It's just kind of like an understanding. But it's funny. I mean, people will talk about it, but not really because it is kind of funny to think about. because when you're on a tour bus, it's literally like one bunk after the other is like stacked on top of each other.

So you're like basically having sex in front of all your friends. So I live, when I was traveling around the world, I lived in hostels for like years on end. And it was like you'd hang a sheet from that you'd try to get the bottom bunk. You'd hang a sheet off the top bunk. So you'd like close off the bottom bunk. And then that's what you had. And you were like, well, it's private. It was like the little kids who like when you put your hands over your eyes, you're like, oh, if you can't see.

me, I can't see you. Like, it's fine. But it's what you got to do, you know? You got to do. I don't know. And I just, I kind of have this mentality of like, you know what? We all do it. Who really cares?

Like, as long as you're not literally like. Making somebody uncomfortable. Exactly. As I was just going to say, like as long as everybody's fine with it and you're not, yeah, making anybody uncomfortable. Like, who cares? Have fun. Yeah.

We're not promoting sexual harassment. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. You want everybody, yeah, to be comfortable. And yeah, exactly. feel safe. Last question. What does success feel like to you and do you feel like you've attained it? Ooh.

I'm going to say right now that I don't feel like I've fully attained it. There's certain, I kind of feel like, and maybe this is not a popular opinion, but success is always changing in your life because I think it kind of depends on like certain maybe milestones that you want to hit because I know I have a lot of different goals in my life that I want to hit. And I'm very thankful and grateful to say that I have accomplished a lot of the goals that I've wanted to. But I also, as I accomplish those goals, I'm constantly rewriting and writing new ones that I want to. So I don't only measure success in your work and like your career. I also measure success in how happy you are in your life and like your friendships and your relationships.

That is a huge thing for me. And in that sense, I would say that I feel very successful because I've worked really hard with my friendships and worked really hard with myself. And in that sense, I feel very successful. But in my career, I feel like I'm constantly, I take time to be very grateful and acknowledge the accomplishments that I have already attained. But then I very quickly, I'm like, okay, I'm so happy that I did that. Now I want to do this. Now I want to do the next thing. And so I feel like it's ever changing for me. Do you feel like you can have a successful life? I put successful in quotes there if you don't have all three. Like if you have a successful relationship but not friends and career or successful friends, but not a successful relationship or

something like that? Yeah, I think so because ultimately at the end of the day, I think you're successful if you're happy. Whatever you're doing, if you're happy and you feel good and content in your life and your surroundings, then I think you're successful. Well, I think that's a good note to end it on. Yay. Thank you so much for having me in your cute little house today, Courtney. Yeah, thanks for coming over. This was really fun. This is lovely. How great is she? I really hope. you guys felt like you were just like hanging out in the couch with us, shooting the shit, having fun. I love episodes that feel just really like natural conversation. Like the stuff you want to talk about with your girlfriends, but you don't always feel like you can. As always, if you like

this podcast, I would so appreciate if you would head over to wherever you listen to your podcast, give it a rating and a review. It helps other people find the podcast. Or you can share it with people that you think would enjoy the episode with Courtney who have anxiety or who want to talk about masturbation but don't have anybody to talk about it with. I would love if you would share this episode with them. Come find me on Instagram. I'm at Liz Moody. Come hang out. Let's talk about the episode. Let's talk about anxiety. Let's talk about vibrators. Whole shebang. I love you guys. Have a great day. When you think about strength and resilience, like your ability to feel energized, to recover well, to stay strong as you get older, what do you think that actually comes from? Most people say working out

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