The Liz Moody Podcast - Science-Backed Tips For Spicing Up Your Sex Life: Threesomes, Fantasies, Toys & More With Dr. Justin Lehmiller

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Sex researcher Justin Lehmiller’s unfiltered tips on having the best sex of your life, communicating your desires, and tapping into what turns you on.  the most common fantasies people have (+ the top fantasies of introverts vs extroverts, Republicans vs Democrats, and more) what our fantasies say about our needs and personalities how to know when/if you should act on your fantasies a complete guide to having successful threesomes, including how to talk about it, where to find a third, and more  what to do when your sexual desires don’t line up with your partner’s whether science supports casual sex  whether porn can be part of a healthy relationship  the one practice you should do twice a year for way better sex  how to have a better sex life even if you’re tired or busy how to have quicker orgasms and so much more!  For more from Justin, check out his book Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life and follow him on Instagram at @justinjlehmiller.  To join the Healthier Together Podcast Club Facebook group, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/healthiertogetherpodcast. This episode is sponsored by:  AG1 by Athletic Greens: visit athleticgreens.com/healthiertogether and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today.  Paleovalley: head over to paleovalley.com and use the code LIZM for 15% off. Olive and June: visit oliveandjune.com/HEALTHIER20 for 20% off your first Mani System. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moodya, and I'm a best-selling author and long-time journalist. This podcast is all about helping you live your healthiest, happiest life, whether we're uncovering the best hacks for better sleep, getting tips for drinking less without feeling judged, or learning how to be more charismatic. And yes, those are all real episodes, so if any of those topics sound good to you, scroll on back in the archives. Today, we are getting into the Science of Sex with Dr. Justin Lay Miller.

I love thinking about the healthier together approach to sex episodes, like how are we getting the juice, the research, and the action steps, and this episode fits the bill perfectly. Dr. Laymiller is a social psychologist, author, and podcast host who specializes his research in the science of sexual desire and the psychology of human sexuality. He has a PhD in Social Psychology from Purdue University, serves as a research fellow at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University, and his studies have been featured in the Washington Post. The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, Rolling Stone, and more. His two books, Tell Me What You Want and The Psychology of Human Sexuality, dive into his years of research on sex. This is a very spicy, very unique episode where we get into the most common fantasies that people have, plus the top fantasies of introverts versus extroverts,

Republicans versus Democrats, and more, what our fantasies say about our needs and our personalities, how to know when and if you should act on your fantasies, a complete guide to having successful threesomes, including how to talk about it, where to find a third and more, what to do when your sexual desires don't line up with your partners. Whether science supports casual sex, this is a thing I have talked about with my friends for years, and I found it fascinating to hear his take on this. Whether porn can be part of a healthy relationship, the one practice that you should do twice a year for way better sex. How to have a better sex life, even if you're tired or busy.

how to have quicker orgasms and so much more. We would both love to hear your thoughts and biggest takeaways as you're listening to the episode. So definitely screenshot and tag me. I'm at Liz Moody and Dr. Lay Miller. He is at Justin J. Lay Miller on Instagram. There is so much to discuss in this episode, the porn stuff, all the threesome stuff, the Republican versus Democrat fantasies, which Zach and I talked about for ages after I recorded

the episode. So share a link with someone in your life who. you think would benefit or whom you want to dive into the topics further with. As always, I am so, so, so grateful for everyone who takes a minute out of their day to spread the word about the Healthier Together podcast. I love all of you. Okay, let's get right into it with Dr. Justin Laymiller. Justin, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here and to dive into all of your amazing research about sex. Hi, Liz. And thank you so much for having me. I just want to get right into it. Fantasies are a huge area of research for you, obviously. So can you start us off by explaining

where different fantasies and desires come from? Like, is it a result of our environment or our upbringing or some sort of innate psychology we have? Why do we have the fantasies that we have? I am very much what I call a biopsychosocial theorist. So whenever we're talking about human sexuality, we need to think about the biological factors that might be playing a role, the, psychological factors as well as the cultural and environmental factors too. And I think you can use this level of analysis for any type of sexual behavior, but it also applies in the case of fantasies. For example, when it comes to whether or not people are fantasizing or how frequently they fantasize, there are some biological factors that play a role such as their hormone levels. So if your hormonal

factors get kind of out of whack, that can make it less likely that you're fantasize. You're at all. There can also be some evolutionary or other deeper components that might be playing a role in why we're turned on by the things that were turned on by. Maybe there were things that it was adaptive for our ancestors to be aroused by because that facilitated reproduction in one way or another. So there can be kind of that level of analysis. But we also need to think about the individual psychological factors. Your personality seems to play a big role in what it is. that you fantasize about. I find there are lots of personality factors that are important here. For example, if you're a really extroverted person, you're very sociable and outgoing. You tend to be

much more outgoing in your sexual fantasies. So you might have more non-monogamy fantasies or group sex fantasies. Also, if you're somebody who tends to be very easily stressed out, you're high on the personality trait that we call neuroticism, where you have more swings between highs and lows, emotionally, stress kind of gets to you really easily. you tend to play it pretty safe in your sexual fantasies and focus more on things that feel comforting and validating. And then on top of that, there's all of the environmental factors, the culture in which you're embedded plays a role that can shape who it is that you find attractive or what you're turned on by. And then whatever is just going on right now in the world around you is important.

For example, I find that people's fantasy has actually changed during the pandemic, especially during that lockdown period that we went through, where people's fantasies tended to become more passionate and romantic in nature. And I think that was because we weren't meeting our needs for social connection as much. So fantasies are extraordinarily complex. What place do you think fantasies sit in in our sexual health? Is it important that we all be engaging in fantasies? It's funny if you look at the history of how fantasies were viewed in the field. of psychology. If you go back about a century ago to the writings of Sigmund Freud, he famously said

that a happy person never fantasizes, only a dissatisfied one. So it wasn't that long ago that in psychology, people looked at fantasies as a sign of deprivation. You weren't getting what you wanted and that fantasies were problematic. If you look at the way the field views fantasies today, though, by and large, we tend to see fantasies as a sign of a healthy, sexuality. People who fantasize more frequently tend to have better sexual health and functioning. And it's not to say that fantasies are always positive. Sometimes they can become sources of anxiety, especially if you're fantasizing about something that might be considered really deviant or that would be illegal, and that's coupled with a desire to act on that fantasy. That's where fantasies

sometimes can kind of go to dark places. But for the most part, fantasies are this healthy thing. they can play a role in increasing our arousal, maintaining arousal, helping to facilitate orgasm. They can also help us to explore our sexuality. One of the things I love about fantasy is that you can temporarily become a different person and you can explore these different sides of yourself and figure out what it is that you might or might not like or who you are. So fantasy is in some way are also a window into self-understanding. It's interesting within that context that these extroverted people will have.

have more outgoing fantasies. And I always thought that fantasies kind of played into the parts of yourself you might not be tapping into in real life. So the introvert would have the, I'm at a big sex orgy type of fantasy or something like that. But you find that's not normally the case. Kind of the person you are in life is the person you are in your fantasies. That's true in some ways, but not in others. In some ways, our fantasies are a reflection of our psychology and who we are. So I cited extroversion is one example of that. And I think that's because our fantasies are often about meeting our needs. And for a highly extroverted person, they have these deep needs for social connection.

And so that transcends their sexual fantasies. But fantasies are also sometimes ways that we do get at things that we feel insecure or inadequate about. I think the data I have that speaks most of this is the question of, how do you see yourself in your sexual fantasies? And is that version of the self that appears in your fantasies similar to or different from the version of you that exists in reality? In that case, I do actually find that introverted people change themselves more in their fantasies than extroverted people do. And I think it's because they're often imagining becoming that more socially confident person. I also find that people who have a lot more attachment anxiety, people who are really

concerned about being abandoned, they're afraid their partner's going to leave them. They tend to change themselves a lot in their fantasies too. And I think that that's a way that they create some level of reassurance because they have all this constant anxiety they're dealing with. So in their fantasy, they can kind of become that confident person who can then relax and enjoy the encounter that they're envisioning. It varies a lot, but I think that question of how do you see yourself in your fantasies is a really revealing one. What if we want to start having fantasies, but we don't know where to begin? We're like, should I picture myself on a beach? Should I picture myself with my partner, with a stranger, with a celebrity? Where should we start if we haven't engaged with fantasies before?

What I find in my work is that almost everyone reports having sexual fantasies. Very consistent finding across studies. About 97 to 98% of people say that they have fantasies. So it's a small number of people who don't. And I find that that 2 to 3% of people is an interesting group. And some of them are people who have what's called a Fantasia, where they literally cannot create mental images. And that extends to both sex. and non-sexual images, they just don't have what we call a mind's eye. So there are some people who just literally cannot fantasize in the form of creating mental images. But I also find that there are some people who say, I don't have fantasies. And for some of them, it's because they're not counting their fantasies as fantasies. Some people think that a fantasy has to have a fantastical element. It needs to take place in outer space or in a science fiction setting. If what you're fantasizing about tends to fall more in the passion and romance realm, you know, I find that there are some people who just don't count that as a fantasy because

it's not fantastical enough. I think the starting point is ask yourself, what is it that you think about to turn yourself on or what kinds of thoughts turn you on? And they can be anything. If you're really struggling with even answering that question, then that becomes a point of, okay, how can we maybe stimulate some sexual fantasies? And that's where I think consulting with erotic fiction or maybe with certain types of pornography that you're comfortable engaging with can kind of help explore different things that might

be a turn on for you. I often like to say that we usually don't know what turns us on until we've seen it or heard it or experienced it in some way. So the answer to your question is to really just kind of go out and explore. experiment with different kinds of pornography and erotica and see what gets the juices flowing and what doesn't. I think some people might discount what they call a fantasy because there's shame around it. There's shame around the idea that maybe you're not satisfied with the sex life that you have or that you want something different. Do you have any tips for getting over that shame hum?

Shame is certainly another factor that can contribute when some people say they don't have fantasies. but sometimes people will admit to fantasies they have, but harbor a lot of shame around them. I ask people, what is your favorite fantasy of all time? And then I give them a whole bunch of questions after that. And one of them is, how common do you think this fantasy is in the population? So how many other people do you think are turned on by the same thing as you? And what I find is that the rarer that people think their fantasy is,

no matter what the fantasy content is, the more shame and guilt and embarrassing. they feel about it. And sometimes they're fantasizing about things that most other people are fantasizing about too. And that's where things like my book, tell me what you want, and other psychoeducational resources can really come in handy in terms of normalizing diverse fantasy content. Most of us didn't get very good sex ed. And if you got sex ed, you probably didn't talk about sexual fantasies. So how are you supposed to know what is a normal sexual fantasy to begin with. So going out and exploring, what does the research and data say? And I've had so many people

who have read my book who tell me that they felt normal for the first time in their life because they realized they weren't alone in having this fantasy or this turn on. That's a really great starting place. It's just kind of going out there and learning and giving yourself the sex ed that you never got before. Can you share some of the common fantasies that come up in your research? There are a lot of them. We would need a couple-hour podcast to kind of get into this because I actually teach two-day 16-hour workshops on sexual fantasies for sex therapists. So there's an endless amount of things I can say on this topic. But some of the more common fantasy themes are first multi-partner sex. So if you've ever fantasized about a threesome or any other form of group sex or being in some type of sexually open relationship, you're normal because most other people have fantasized about this too. Also, kink and BDSM, if you fantasize eroticizing power play or being tied up or tying your partner up or mixing pleasure with pain to some degree, again, vast majority people have fantasized about this as well. Other common themes include, of course, passion and romance.

Also, just doing something that's taboo. When people do things that they're told that they aren't supposed to do, that's often a big turn on. It's the reverse psychology thing when someone says, no, you can't do this. That often makes us want to do it even more. So the more restrictions you have placed on your sexuality, the more that can make you fantasize about breaking free of them. And then a couple of other big ones are just trying something that's new and different and maybe a little exciting. So one of the big ones there is having public sex. It doesn't necessarily mean you want to be out on display for everybody to see, but it might be taking place in a public restroom or dressing room in a store where there's that potential risk of being caught, but no one else is

actually going to see you. It's kind of like that just sort of heightened thrill element. And then exploring your gender and your sexuality are often big themes in our fantasies. And I find in particular for heterosexual identified women, a majority of them report having had a same-sex fantasy before. So they fantasized about what it might be like to kiss or be with another woman. And a lot of people have also fantasized about, exploring and taking on different gender roles. One thing I found really interesting in my work was I ask people, how often do you initiate sex in reality versus how often do you initiate sex in your fantasies? And I find that for women, they're fantasizing about initiating sex more than they actually

do, and men are fantasizing about their partner initiating more than they do in reality. In our fantasies, we're often breaking free of these traditional gender roles and scripts. How much should we be acting on our fantasies? If we're like, oh, I fantasize about having sex in public, does that mean there's this part of us that would probably benefit from doing some sort of sex in public? Or if we have a fantasy that involves a BDSM thing or a kink thing, should we be using that as a sign to explore that world a little bit more? There are a few things I would say to that. One is that you don't have to act on your fantasies in order to be sexually satisfied. But if you have the desire to act on your fantasies, it's worth considering that to the extent that those fantasies are safe and legal and consensual. There's always a lot of caveats to throw in there. And what I see in my research is that about 80% of people say they want to act on their favorite fantasy at some point in their life, but only about 20%. 20% have done it. And those who have acted on their fantasies, for the most part, are reporting very positive outcomes. They said that the experience met or exceeded their expectations. It brought them closer to their partner and improve their relationship. And they just really enjoyed the experience. There seemed to be a lot of benefits to acting on fantasies. And also some

other research has found that women who share and act on their sexual fantasies actually have more consistent experiences with orgasm. So when we're talking about something like closing the orgasm gap, one of the keys to that might be women sharing and acting on their fantasies more because we know that women often aren't getting what they want when it comes to sex. And so kind of breaking down those taboos around female sexuality, opening up those conversations about fantasy might be really useful. But again, we always have to follow that with the caveat of not all fantasies are created equal and it has to check the boxes of safe legal and consensual. And then if you want to act on that, there's a lot of advantage.

planning. You need to think about, okay, what are the things that could potentially go wrong with this? Do I have the right level and depth of communication with my partner or partners to make sure that if something goes off the rails or I want this to end, that we can actually exit that scenario? And also make sure that you're taking the right safety precautions. If you're opening up your relationship in some way, you need to think about STI risk and you need to think about how you're going to deal with jealousy and other issues that might potentially pop up. A lot of people fantasize like, oh, a threesome sounds great and would be a lot of fun, but then they start having a threesome with their partner and they're jealous all of a sudden. And so fantasies can be a mixed

bag, but they're much more likely to go well to the extent that you have a lot of advanced communication and put the work in and you're not just going into the fantasy unprepared. Let's talk about threysms for a second because that is a common fantasy I think people have, but it is so tricky in reality. Like just in the very base level, I don't understand how you find people to have threesomes with. It's hard to go to a bar and then do you hit on somebody as a couple? Is there a best dynamic? If you're a couple having a guest star more successful usually, are you being the guest star

more successfully? If we were like threesome sound interesting, I have no idea where to begin. Where should we start? There's a few things here. One is the experiences with threesomes and the ease of facilitating them vary based on sexual orientation. People who identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual tend to have more threesomes and tend to report more positive experiences with them, in part because it's easier to find a group of people who are on the same page about the desired sex or gender of their partner and who might be doing what with whom. If you're talking about in a heterosexual context, that's where

I think it tends to get a little trickier. The question first of, where do you meet somebody who might be interested? There are some apps that are specifically designed to help people connect who are interested in some kind of non-monogamy or in having a group experience. So one example of that is the app field, F-E-E-L-D. It really caters to people who are interested in having threesomes, group encounters, and experiencing other forms of non-monogamy. It might involve using online dating in a different way than you've done before, looking at different apps and in menus for meeting other people.

It can certainly be done in person as well, but it's a little bit harder because in our culture and society, we're taught this idea that everyone's monogamous. And when you introduce yourself as a couple, people will often discount you and assume that you're not available and so forth. Another part of this that some people might find helpful is joining to the extent that they're open to it. A local swingers club or other sex club or other sex positive environment where people aren't looking at sexuality and relationships and all of that as rigidly. But that's not necessarily for beginners. So that tends to be maybe for people who are a little bit more comfortable and practiced and experienced with that. How do you find those? Do you just Google sex club near me?

I mean, you can, but it's going to depend a lot on where you live. If you live in New York City, sex clubs are bound. But if you're living in rural Alabama or something, it's going to be probably harder to find those kinds of clubs. And again, this is where I think some of these apps can be very helpful for facilitating those connections, but they do tend to work better in larger metropolitan areas. I'm genuinely confused how Masterclass. gets literally the absolute top people in every single field to teach every single one of their

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than ever to make the switch. And if you want to grab their premium starter kit, you can use code Liz Moody for 15% off at branchbasics.com. That's code Liz Moody for 15% off the premium starter kit at branchbasics.com. And when they ask you where you heard about us, please make sure to mention the show. That is branch basics.com and use code Liz Moody. The app thing is interesting because I feel like for me, part of the fantasy of a threesome would be the team building element with my partner of wooing somebody together.

And the app takes away some of that hitting on and the flirting and that type of stuff. Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I also think there can be some value. in it because threesomes are often awkward when people have them for the first time. So you could actually think about having a virtual threesome first, right? Where you and, you know, if you're doing this with a partner and there's this other person, you can have that virtual three-way. It could be in a Zoom room, you know, could really be anywhere online.

But you're just starting with that flirtation process and really emphasizing the communication of what do you want and the flirting aspect. of it. Ultimately, satisfying threesomes come down to having really good communication. And so many of us struggle with communication just with one other person, let alone with two other people or a larger group. And so I think any way you can get some practice with that first before you actually bring another person into bed would probably serve you well down the road. When you say communication, what do you mean specifically? Like, what are the questions we should be asking or the topics we should be bringing up?

Let's say you say to your partner that you're into the idea of a threesome. Your partner says, hey, I'm into that too. And you're both like, great, let's have a threesome. That is not enough. You need to dive deeper into this. For example, what kind of threesome do you envision? And how do you want to feel in a threesome? So one of the things I find in my work is I ask people to write out their favorite fantasy of all time

in great detail. So many people say threesome. It actually is the single most commonly mentioned fantasy when people are thinking of their favorite or go-to fantasy. But I find that most people fantasize about being the center of attention in a threesome. So this is one of those tension points or pain points that can emerge is that, let's say you and your partner both want to be the center of attention and then you're bringing a third person in. Somebody's going to feel neglected or left out in that situation. So how are we going to manage that? Are you going to take turns being the center of attention? Or are you going to say, all right, we're not just going to have one threesome. We're going to do two. And in the first one, you can be the

center of attention. And the next one, I can be the center of attention. One angle to consider is, what is the role? What are the activities that you want to actually try in a threesome? And then, what is the desired gender composition of this threesome? For heterosexual context, that's where it sometimes gets a little tricky. What I see in my own research is that heterosexual men tend to be more open to the idea of a threesome with two other women. Women are more open to the idea of a threesome with two other men. So you have to get on the same page about that. Do you have any recommendations for getting on the same page about that? Sometimes that's an intractable difference. And that's part of the reason why threesome sometimes don't work out for every couple that wants to bring a third person in.

Maybe the partners just aren't interested in a same-sex experience. So that's where when this does work, Partners often have to be willing to take turns and say, we're going to do a threesome that's more on your terms this time, and then next time it'll be more on my term. It's some give and take. This isn't to say that people should go out and do things they really don't want to do or that they're really uncomfortable with. That's bad and is probably not going to go well. But if you have some openness and you want to see your partner happy and them getting pleasure brings you pleasure, then that sort of taking turns thing is something that can work. for a lot of people. It's interesting because it seems like one of the overarching issues is that we have this societal umbrella fantasy, that all of this should happen organically and just flow in the moment when actually that can lead to a lot of miscommunication and negative results. And this unromantic notion of sitting down, communicating, spelling out an action plan, it feels less sexy, but it actually leads to sexier.

results in a way. Completely. And I can't tell you how many people I've heard from who they were out at the bar with their partner. They had several drinks and they ended up going home with someone and having a threesome. And then the next day just totally regretted it because it was a bad experience. And they're like, nope, threesomes aren't for me. And my response to that is, well, let's look at the circumstances under which this threesome took place. You didn't have any advanced communication. You drunkenly went home with this other person, and it didn't turn out the way that you wanted it to. And it's really not surprising.

Having that communication in advance can make the experience so much sexier because it's going to make sure that everybody is getting what they want out of it. I would say the modal or most common scenario through which threesomes happen, there's often some alcohol involved, and it's often spontaneous or unplanned. But that doesn't tend to be the outcome that produces the most desirable outcomes. And that's why in my own research, I find that threesomes are the single most common sexual fantasy. But they're the fantasy that's least likely to turn out well because the circumstances surrounding most threesomes just don't promote a positive experience. It's not to say the threesome's can't be good. They can be great. A lot of people love them, but you have to approach them the right way.

What if we're in that communication phase? We're sharing our fantasies and one partner is interested in a threesome and the other partner isn't. How much should we be expected to bend our sexual preferences or desires to make our partners happy in a long-term relationship? This is one of the most common questions that I get is what do I do if I'm not into my partner's fantasy or my partner isn't into my fantasy? First, the place to start is from one of validation. Thank you for sharing this with me because for a lot of people sharing a fantasy, is something they may have never done with anyone else before. It puts them in this great position of vulnerability. I think we could be grateful and show some grace to our partners

when they open up to us about their turn-ons and not come at them from a place of judgment and shaming because that's not going to go anywhere productive. The second part is then, all right, a fantasy has been shared. One partner's not into it. Why aren't you into it? And maybe it's because you've never thought about this before. Or you're just not really sure about it. So take a little bit of time to think about it. Is there a chance that you could be into it? Are there some circumstances that might be arousing? And maybe that's where going to some erotica or porn to see what might this potentially look like. Not to say that porn is an accurate depiction of reality, but it might give you some ideas. If you can find that, hey, I might be

into that after all, then that could potentially be a solution. If you do that little bit of research and thinking and realize, nope, this isn't for me, then I think the answer is to say, all right, is there some kind of compromise fantasy that we can engage in? Maybe it's getting a sex toy or a sex doll or something that simulates the experience of having another person there. Or maybe you're comfortable with your partner exploring their threesome fantasies in a virtual reality environment or something else. Or maybe it's just that you say, you're into threesomes. I'm not. What are some other things that you're into? Can we find other fantasies that we can share or explore together?

I think one of the great things about sexual fantasies is that most people have a lot of them. And if you're not a match on one thing, you might very well be a match on a lot of other things. And so maybe you can explore other things together. But it's always important to find some way to compromise. And again, don't do things that you really don't want to do, but propose alternatives. I think it's such a tricky situation because we are like, I have one life. I want to be able to have the sex life that I want to have during that life. But also, if we are in a long-term monogamous relationship, we are always catering to that person's needs, that person's desires and preferences. So it can be hard to balance. Well, don't I deserve to have this experience

in the course of my life that I want to have? But also, I want to respect who you are and what's important to you in our relationship. It's a tricky thing to balance. because a lot of people make a lifelong commitment to one person at a relatively young age, and their sexual fantasies or interests might change over time. That's one of the things that I've found most interesting about my research, is that prior to that, we really didn't have any research on fantasies and aging. And what I see is that it's actually people in their 40s and 50s who have the most adventuresome sexual fantasies.

They have the most threesome fantasies, non-monogamy fantasies. They want to try more taboo. novel things. There seems to be something that happens in midlife that prompts this sexual novelty seeking. And I think part of it is tied to the fact that most of these people are in long-term monogamous relationships. And they've become bored with their sexual routines and they want to try something new and different. Part of it might also be midlife crises. If I'm not going to do this now, it's probably never going to happen. There can be a lot of things that are going on there. And that's where partners have to really sit and think carefully of how important is it for me to fulfill these sexual wants and desires if my partner has absolutely no interest in them.

And for some people, the answer might be ending their relationship because they're just two totally different people sexually. For other people, it might be opening up their relationship. There are some people, for example, who are polyamorous where they only have their one partner, but their partner has multiple other. partners, and they're fine with that because it's a way of everybody meeting their own sexual needs. It's all about finding what works for you and your relationship. You also have research on how different political parties impact our fantasies, right? What Democrats fantasize about versus Republicans? Yes, and that is something that I thought was very interesting, because in my work, I wanted to look at, well, what do our fantasies say about us and different demographic factors,

including our political backgrounds. And I wrote a piece a couple of years ago for Politico that did a deeper dive into this than what I have in the book. And basically what I find is that Republicans tend to be more turned on by non-monogamy and group sex and taboos compared to Democrats. But Democrats tend to be turned on more by power play, BDSM, kink, than Republicans. And I think what's ultimately happening there is that we're all turned on by, taboos to some degree. And I think when you're on the political right versus the political left, what is taboo differs a bit? If you're a conservative Republican and you're told that monogamy and one partner sex for procreation, all of these things are the model that you need to

fit. Well, suddenly any form of non-monogamy or group sex, even going to a strip club, all these things, they become very taboo and might become more appealing for that reason. On the political left, where there are somewhat lesser sexual restrictions in some ways, there are more restrictions when it comes to power dynamics. On the left, we hear a lot about having a level playing field and how power differentials are inherently exploitative. And so for that reason, playing with power in the bedroom might become eroticized because it's more taboo. There are certainly differences in the content of the fantasies, but I think it all comes back to what is taboo for these groups and how that differs. It's one of my favorite things about talking about sex, though, is the interplay between who we are in our sex lives and who we are in our actual lives and how we can use diving into the things we want sexually to explore who we are as a person.

And we can use exploring who we are as a person to dive into the things that we want sexually. I just think that interplay is absolutely fascinating and almost a key part of living your most fully realized life as a person. Absolutely. And it's also the case that sometimes the things that we protest the most in real life are the things that turn us on the most in the bedroom. I think that's almost a core fear about fantasies is that they are evidencing this damaged part of ourselves. And it sounds like you don't really think that's almost ever the case. So we can maybe try to get away. from that feeling almost entirely? I do think a lot of the shame that comes around fantasies is just this fear that something is really wrong with me because I'm not supposed to be turned on by this. And for some people, just having the data, the information that actually your fantasy

is super common isn't enough. And that's where in the world of sex therapy, there's something I really like called the Plicit model. And Plisset is an acronym. it basically goes through the four main steps that are involved in sex therapy. The first, the P, is for permission. And sometimes we just have to give ourselves permission or get permission from a therapist or trusted other to say, it's okay to explore your fantasies and your sexuality. You know, sometimes that permission element is enough. If it's not, then we move on to limited

information, which is where we get that sex ed that we never got before, the information that can help to normalize our experiences or our fantasies. And if that doesn't work, then we move to the SS, the specific suggestions where we kind of get homework exercises, where we can work through our anxieties and other concerns that we might have. So your therapist might prescribe specific techniques or maybe even medications or other things to help us work through the issue. And if none of those things work, then you get to the last step, the IT, the intensive therapy. And that's where you really kind of do the deep dive with your therapist. And what research finds is that the vast majority of cases in sex therapy don't require

getting to that last step. Most people don't need intensive therapy. That's good. That's a positive sign that so many sexual problems can just be solved with the permission, the limited information, and the specific suggestions. Do you have any other tips for successful threesomes if we want to go down that path? It starts with getting on the same page about, what everybody wants and having that level of communication. Another thing is having communication

afterwards. So if you have a threesome with your partner and maybe it didn't go well, that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't for you. Talk about what were the things that worked and the things that didn't. I think when it comes to any fantasy, practice makes perfect. And it might require a few attempts before you get it to the point where this is really pleasurable for everyone and we feel comfortable and relaxed. Oh, that's. It's so permission giving. I feel like so many people probably try a fantasy and then it's awkward and it's weird because it's new. And then we're just like, oh, this didn't work. It's off the table. But it's so permission giving to say, well, of course, it's going to feel weird at first.

You have to practice doing it. This is your first time doing it. Absolutely. Recognize maybe this is a fantasy that you had that really turns you on and then you walk into the situation. But you're really anxious because you've never done this before. And so your body kicks into that fight or flight response, and that can actually make it harder to become aroused, to stay aroused, to have an orgasm, that fear and anxiety element might be getting in the way just because this is a totally new situation for you. In your mind in advance, you were thinking about, oh, the situation's going to be great, it's going to be amazing, but then you get in and you're kind of like paralyzed with fear and it doesn't work out. Maybe you couldn't get erect or maybe you didn't have as much

vaginal lubrication as you normally do. But once you have some practice or experience with this, it can get easier because you develop some confidence, some comfort. It's practice makes perfect when it comes to a lot of fantasies. But that's where you need to have the advanced communication, communication during the act, and communication afterwards. And one other thing I would say that I think is helpful is that we often hear about safe words when it comes to kinky or BDSM sex, this word that you can invoke at any point to say, this has moved past my comfort zone and I want to stop, I think having a safe word for any type of sexual fantasy, including threesomes and group sex, can be really useful because sometimes no is the hardest word to say in the bedroom and when it comes to sex.

And so having a safe word can be helpful for communicating with your partner. We need to wrap this up because I no longer want to be part of this situation. In general, do you think humans can have sex without feelings getting involved? Or do you think that sex always leads to feelings and attachment? I'm thinking about in terms of threesomes. I think some fears people would have about them is that somebody gets attached in a feeling's way to the guest star. But this extends to all types of casual sex like one night stands, fuck buddies, open relationships, all of those things. I think this overarching question of can you separate sex from?

feelings. What does the research show? What the research shows is that this is an individual difference. It varies from one person to the next. And I think the personality trait that's most relevant here is something called your sociosexual orientation. And you can figure out what your own level of sociosexuality is by searching for the sociosexuality scale. You can find it online and take it and figure out where you are. But basically this tells you about your degree of comfort with casual sex. One item on there is sex without love is okay, but looks at how do you feel about that connection between intimacy and love and so forth and sexual connection. Some people see those things is intimately intertwined. Like I can't have sex with someone unless I love them.

Other people are like, sex can be totally disconnected from love. So there's lots of questions there. And for people who score really high on the scale who have what we call an unrestricted sociosexuality, they can have casual sex guilt-free and they don't need to have a deep intimate connection with their partner. But for people who are on the restricted end of that scale, sex and love absolutely go together. And casual sex is less likely to be good for them. They're less likely to be into it in the first place. It's important for us to have that own level of self-understanding about what is our sociosexiety. because lots of us feel like, oh, I should be able to have casual sex or practice non-monogamy or have a

threesome, but it might not be right for you. This is where understanding your own sexuality, sociosexuality, is really important because it can help you figure out what's the right way to approach my sex life for me. But I think it's also worth recognizing that these things can change over time. You know, it could very well be the case that when you're younger, sex and love very much go together. Maybe when you get to your 40s or 50s, you're like, nope, I can have casual sex or have a three-some and it's totally fine, but I wouldn't have been able to do that 20 or 30 years ago. So it's kind of about who you are as a sexual person right now. I'm curious and I'm sure all the psychology tests, well, not all of them. A lot of the psychology tests are really good at catching this, but I like to think of myself as a person who

wouldn't necessarily catch feelings. Like I might answer the questions as if I am that person, but then in real life, I would absolutely catch feelings. Yeah, it kind of depends on the mindset that you have when you're taking one of these surveys. And sometimes the way that we're responding, if it's in a calm, cool, collected, unaroused state, might be very different from how we respond in that moment. Because when you're with another person, there's a certain chemistry, dynamism, magnetism, that exists that's hard to replicate when you're not in that situation. And that's why sometimes what we say on a survey isn't what we actually do in reality. You know, surveys can be very good predictors of behavior, but they're not perfect predictors.

And that's because we can't always mentally take into account the differences between how I'm feeling right now versus how I would feel in that later situation. I think that can be the fear with a partner in something like a threesome as well as they could say, no, I love you so much. Like there's no way this is going to impact that. but then when their naked bodies are smushing together and they're breathing each other's breath, that does feel like it changes the dynamic. You're certainly not taking a survey in that moment. Correct. And this is where as a social psychologist, I like to bring up the concept of what's called affective forecasting. And this is where you try to predict what your future emotional state is going to be in another situation. If you go back to the example of a threesome, you might in your mind think,

oh, that's going to be so hot because you're thinking about it in terms of this very specific scenario. But when the threesome actually happens and it goes differently from how you thought it would be or the person who's involved or persons who are involved are different. That's a different scenario. And with affective forecasting, what we find is that when people think that they're going to feel really positive in some future situation, they tend to overestimate how good they're going to feel. And when they think that something bad is going to be experienced, they tend to overestimate how bad they're going to feel. Basically, we tend to think our emotional responses are going to be much more extreme than they really are. And in reality, they're probably going to be somewhere closer

to the middle. That's important to know for a couple of reasons. One is that you've got to have the right expectations going in when you're going to act on a fantasy, because it might not turn out to be this amazing mind-blowing experience that you're picturing in your head. But, also, if you're thinking that something might go poorly, it might not be nearly as bad as you think it's going to be either. It's funny. As I'm talking to, I feel like I'm realizing I'm almost looking for assurance or a tip or something like that that guarantees you won't catch feelings, that guarantees you can disconnect the sex

from the feelings so that if you do do something like a threesome or open your relationship in any way, there's none of that risk factor. I'm always looking for certainty, and that's something I'm working on in therapy. But is there anything you think you could do to protect your relationship in that way? There are probably no guarantees, but something you can do is to embrace some degree of uncertainty. My therapist says that too. It's so annoying. I know. But to think about it this way, with your partner, you're going to try something new sexually. You're going to say, all right, we've communicated in advance about how are you?

going to try to make this work out the best we possibly can, it might not go that way. And that's okay. I am embracing going on this sexual journey with you. And whether it goes really well or it doesn't, that's okay. Because at the end, we're going to regroup and we're going to think about how we're going to get it right the next time. Okay. I want to talk about porn for a second and then we'll get into some speed round stuff. But you've mentioned porn a few times. I get so many DMs from people who are worried about their partner watching porn. How do you think porn fits into a healthy relationship? How do you think porn fits into questions about ethics?

What's your view on porn as a whole? It's complex. Porn can have different effects on different people. In terms of, say, a long-term relationship, sometimes porn is a compliment to an already satisfying sex life. This is particularly true for women. What we see in the research is that women are more likely, to use porn and to masturbate to the extent that they're already really sexually satisfied

with their partner because that's revving up their sex drive. But porn sometimes is also a substitute for an unsatisfying sex life. For example, when partners have a sexual desire discrepancy and one partner wants sex a lot more than the other, the high desire partner sometimes turns to porn as a way of compensating for the sex that they aren't having. So it can be a substitute, it can be a compliment, it can also just be a nothing burger, where it doesn't really have one effect one way or the other. It's totally normal for people in long-term relationships to continue engaging in solo

masturbation. And I think that's why we need to step back and say, am I really concerned about the porn here or am I concerned that my partner is having pleasure without me? And what does that mean? And where is that anxiety coming from? If your partner was just using fantasy instead of porn, would you be okay with it? Or you're still going to feel threatened or insecure about it? The issue is that most partners just never discuss porn or masturbation.

And then when these issues come up and they discover that their partner is watching porn and masturbating, then it becomes this source of conflict. Talking more about your sex life and what you need and want and desire and all these things would be useful and helpful because so much of our sex lives just happens in secrecy. And it's only when those secrets become discovered that it starts to become this problem. In terms of the ethicality of porn, yes, it's a spectrum. if you're looking at the porn that's out there. Some of it is inherently exploitative.

Some of it is made in a very ethically sourced way. And I think it's important for us to feel good about the kind of porn or erotic content that we're consuming. And thankfully, there are increasingly a number of sources of ethically produced porn that's out there. And one way that you can feel better about the porn that you're using is to pay for the porn that you're using instead of going to the free sources to ensure that the people who are participating in. this are being adequately compensated for their work and that other safeguards are being put in place. Look, I'm never going to make everything that I wear organic. But your sheets, your pillows, your comforter are literally touching your skin for eight hours every single night. That is a third of your life right there with one simple swap. And if your bedding is worn out, it's trapping heat

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Support yourselves and how you age with mitopure gummies from Timeline. Visit Timeline.com slash Liz and save up to 39% on your mitopure gummies. That is timeline.com slash Liz. It's interesting. I'm trying to think of the arguments that I've heard about it. And a lot of those are like, well, yeah, but if you go downstream, the people who are getting into this industry, even if they're being well compensated, are there? other issues. And I think it goes down to this puritanical notion and decided we have of like,

is it okay to pay somebody for any sort of involvement in sex work? Or are you always capitalizing on some sort of damage or trauma or something like that? What are your thoughts on that? This is one of those areas where people hold a lot of opinions. And I actually talk about this a lot in my study abroad courses I teach where I take students to Amsterdam and we talk about sex work more broadly because in Amsterdam sex work is legal. And if you look at the writings that are out there about should sex work be illegal or legal, a lot of people say that sex work should always be illegal because no one in their right mind would voluntarily agree to sell sex. It's always inherently exploitative in some way. But if you survey women who sell sex in cultures where selling

sex is legal, actually the single most common reason women report for getting into the profession is that they enjoy the job or they enjoy the work. And in countries, cultures, where you have safeguards in effect and where there's a legal framework and these other sorts of protections in place, that's very different from the underground sex world that exists in places where selling sex is illegal. A lot of the people who are just no sex, no porn just in general think that it's always bad to sell sex under any circumstances. They probably also think that sex in general is bad under almost any circumstances other than sex for procreation. Sometimes it's very hard to have productive discussions about this topic with people because some

people just have a very ideological view on it rather than one that can be informed by the data. As with everything, it's mixed. Is there some porn, some sex work that is exploitative, problematic? Yes. and we should be working on solutions to reduce that, to eradicate it, to give rid of it, so that the porn and the sex work that exists is ethical and not abusive and not exploitative. Because we know that that can exist. But when we have all these other sorts of restrictions and discourse around it, that's where it starts to become problematic. Do you have any favorite ethical porn sites you could recommend?

One example would be Erica Lutz. I went to a screening of some of her films in New York City a couple of years ago. I was asked to be a panelist for them. And that was one of the first times I saw female-friendly, erotic, pornographic content. It was just so different from most of the mainstream porn that you see, so much less emphasis on the genitals and so forth. It was one of those things that kind of made me realize that not all porn is created equal. When you're going to a place like Porn Hub or one of the,

these other big tube sites, you're seeing just one sliver of what is out there, but in this massive quantity. And so you often have to go and look for what it is that you want. And the best way to do that is ask around, get recommendations from other people who have found pornography, erotic content that really works for them. And in general, if you're like, I feel bad about myself because my partner feels the need to watch porn, you would say you don't need to feel bad about yourself, it can be a compliment to a healthy sex life, but you need to have some communication to figure out how it is playing in your sex life. I think that's generally true with the caveat that you also need to think about, okay, how do you feel about your own sex life with your partner?

And are you not having sex anymore? And you would like to be having sex. And if your partner is engaging in masturbation and self-pleasure, but you're not having any sex life together, that might be a sign of another issue that you've got a sexual desire discrepancy. And, you know, it might not be porn. That's the problem. That's where you need to have a bigger discussion about why aren't we having sex anymore. And does that just look like why aren't we having sex anymore? Do you have tips for having that conversation?

I think it's useful for everybody to have regular sexual check-ins with their partner because this can help prevent you from getting to the point where your sex life just goes off the rails. So many couples start their relationships. not having a problem having sex, but they aren't talking about it. But then the sex starts to dwindle. And then all of a sudden the partners are left wondering, why aren't we having sex anymore? But we've never really talked about it. Then that's where it kind of becomes this awkward thing. And the longer you let that build, the worse it becomes. Some people have been in multi-year, multi-decade relationships. And they never really had a conversation about sex. To some people, that's mind-blowing,

but to other people, that's just the normative trajectory is that sex is something you do. It's not something that you talk about, and that's what we need to get away from. We need to have those regular check-ins about what we want, because our desires, our wants, our needs change over time. Our bodies change. What feels good and comfortable to us changes. Our fantasies change. And if you're not talking about these things, it's very easy to fall out of sync. My best tip for this is to not go into a relationship thinking about how you need to establish sexual compatibility and then just set it and forget it. Rather, it's you need to maintain sexual compatibility.

So you start by getting on the same page and then you're doing these regular check-ins. It could be every six months, every year. Whatever works for you in your schedule to talk about where you are if things are good and how you want things to change. I love the idea of having scheduled check-ins because I think one of the fears around that is it's indicative that something's wrong in your relationship. But if it's just a scheduled thing that you do as a maintenance thing, it takes away this, oh my God, what's wrong? We're solving a problem. It's like, no, this is just something we're

doing to keep things good. Yeah. And if you don't put it on the calendar, it becomes all too easy to just never do it and never have that discussion. So sometimes having that external prompt is a really good and really helpful and healthy thing. I love that. Okay. Speed round. I'm going to ask you for just one great tip for a bunch of different scenarios if you're down. Okay. One great tip for somebody who wanted to spice up their sex life, but they have no idea where to start. Getting a sex toy can be a great place to begin. Research shows that sex toys can have benefits through people of any gender, any sexual orientation, and they're a super easy way of just adding in some novelty, trying something

different and getting some new sensations. Love that. Just one tip for building anticipation or intimacy in everyday life when you're not actually having sex. first thing that comes to mind is if you're in the habit or process of scheduling sex or if you have date nights that are scheduled, the nice thing about that is that it provides this handy opportunity to build intimacy throughout the day or throughout the week because you know what's going to happen on Friday night. So you can send texts earlier in the week about how much you're looking forward to Friday or the things that you're curious about trying where you could be sexting your partners, sending them some photos. or just something a little bit suggestive, whether it's an emoji or something. But it's when you have those things to look forward to and then you capitalize on that opportunity,

it can make the actual experience of it so much more intense because you've built up the anticipation and the arousal. It's so funny because so many people I run into in my normal life kind of have a negative reaction to scheduling sex. But every time I talk to a sex expert or a sex therapist, they are such a huge fan of it. They think it's such a great way to build anticipation. to make sure you're having regular sex. And it's just one of the most universally recommended things by experts and one of the most universally,

oh, that means you're not very sexually intimate. You're not having a very good sex life thing by people who are not experts. I think maybe scheduled sex just needs a rebrand. Let's just call it date night or something else or lover's weekend, whatever you want to call it. So get away from calling it scheduled sex. Don't put it in the calendar as scheduled sex or something that sounds unsexy. Give it a better name, something that works for you. that you're really looking forward to.

Other than that, do you have one tip for making time for sex or making sex more of a priority in our very busy lives? We need to rethink everything we think we know about sex. A lot of us have a sexual script where we think that sex is the last thing that happens at the end of the day before bed. And at the end of the day, after you've worked and you're tired and stressed and all that stuff, oftentimes you're not going to feel like sex, or maybe you will, but your partner doesn't. And that's part of the reason people aren't on the same page and my sex disappears is because

they're both following the script where they feel like sex has to fit in at this particular point in the day. And that's where I think mixing up the way that you initiate sex and when you initiate sex can be really helpful. So sex can happen at any time of day. It can be something you do in the morning before you go to work. It can be something you do in the middle of the afternoon. It can be something you do on the weekends.

I think afternoon sex is very underrated because it can be a great break. It's my favorite time, especially now that so many people work from home, nobody's tired, nobody's too full, nobody needs to poop usually. I just think that it has so many good things going for it. Thinking about different times of day that sex and also that sex can be something that's short, it can be something that's long. It doesn't have to be intercourse or penetration. Like there's all kinds of ways to be intimate.

It's all about just sort of mixing up like when you do it and realizing that it doesn't have to fit into this little box and that just isn't working for you in your life circumstances anymore. I had a friend whose partner was afraid of mixing it up because they had a really good thing going. Their orgasms were good. And he didn't want to almost mess with that. And I think that's a fear a lot of people have because we have put orgasms up on this

pedestal. And once you have something that works, it's so associated with how good you feel like you are in bed and maybe your masculinity or your femininity or anything like that. Do you have any tips for somebody who's maybe afraid to mix it up because they don't want to seed that great orgasm that they've gotten so good at nailing? I can understand that. Some people like to play it safe when it comes to sex. They really know what works for them and they don't want to step outside of that box. And for some people, it might be okay to play within those narrow confines. But for most people, goes back to that willingness to step a little bit outside of your comfort zone and try something new and different. Sometimes that is the solution to bridging a sexual desire discrepancy

or just taking your sex life to the next level. Because when you're trying something that's new and different, that tends to bring this extra level of excitement, and that can produce more intense arousal and orgasm, and that can stimulate even more sexual desire. Part of the reason that we lose desire for sex in long-term relationships is because the sex becomes predictable. It's too predictable, and we need to keep trying new and different things to keep that desire level up. Maybe in this example you're giving of like one partner doesn't want to mix things up because it works really well for them. Well, they also need to be thinking about this from their partner's perspective. What are the needs for each person that's involved in this relationship? And if you're only doing

things on one person's terms, you're likely to eventually fall into the situation where the partners are just going to fall out of sync because both people aren't getting their needs met. It's interesting because I do think the orgasm gap is obviously real. It's obviously so important to talk about. But I also wonder if sometimes even taking orgasm as a goal off the table can free us up to be a little bit more experimental and playful. Absolutely. You can also play with this and say, all right, we're going to have fun. We're just going to set the timer for this amount of time. And we're just going to explore an experiment. And orgasm is not the goal. It's just to explore one another, this body is to experience intimacy, to connect with one another. And there can be a lot of

value in that. And this is something else where you can kind of also turn it into a game where you can say, you know, we're going to engage in this non-goal-oriented exercise together. And I'm going to offer you two different things. I'm going to say, if I kiss your inner thigh, do you like that or do you like it if I gently rub my beard on it or something? You kind of give the this or that, like try different things, explore different sensations and learn about what your partner enjoys. And again, orgasm is not the goal, but you're having that fun time and you're learning about your partner's body. Do you have anything super pragmatic that's come up in the research?

If you want to have an orgasm really quick, like you want to do the same thing a lot or vary the thing a lot or touch one area or one of those quick and dirty, something really pragmatic we could bring into that situation? If you're somebody who can have orgasms very quickly when you're masturbating, but it seems to take a long time when you're engaged in partners, sex. One handy tip that a lot of sex therapists will try is to say, all right, let's figure out how to make partnered activity mimic the sensations that you're getting during masturbation. That could be showing your partner how it is that you masturbate. You can kind of think of this as like,

let's do a masturbation show and tell. Let's masturbate in front of one another. And that in and of itself can be a very erotic experience. But it can also be a way to learn this is the way that they like to be touched or what works for them in terms of getting them aroused most quickly. And is it possible for us to replicate that? Making masturbation, something that is more parallel to the sensations or getting during partner sex can be helpful for kind of having more of those quick and dirty orgasms. I love that. I mean, if you think about it, we've had decades of experience having sex with ourselves.

We have a lot of experience we could share, a lot of knowledge we could share in that direction. That's a great tip. Can you just leave us with one homework assignment, something that everybody listening can do or think about or try when they finish this podcast to lead to an overall better sex life? Good exercise that anybody could try is to think about who you were as a sexual person when you first started having sex. And now think about what you're like as a sexual person at this moment in time. and then think about what you're going to be like as a sexual person in 10, 20, or 30 years from now. Reflect on how your sex life, your sexuality, all these things have already changed, and then how they're likely to change further.

This is something most of us just don't give any thought to. We tend to think of our sexuality as this thing that is static over the course of our lifespan, but it's always constantly evolving. And to the extent that we can recognize that, I think it makes us better prepared for what's ahead because we can become more flexible and adaptable. That's where for a lot of us our sex lives go wrong is that we find that the old ways aren't working anymore and we're still trying to have sex the way that we used to in the past and it's just not working.

So recognize that you're a unique, a dynamic sexual person. You've probably already changed a lot. You're going to change a lot more in the future and just embrace that dynamism that is your sexuality. It also provides an opportunity for a little bit of self-validation. When I was first having sex, I was using it very much as a way to boost my self-esteem, to feel good about myself, and often to the detriment of my experience with pleasure, I would fake orgasms. And I just really wanted to feel hot and sexy and cool.

And I did that by making the person I was having sex with feel hot and sexy and cool. And now I've been able to come into myself as so much more of a sexual being. And I experienced much more pleasure as a result. So even as you were saying that, I was reflecting on that. that. And I was like, oh my gosh, you've come so far. Like, give yourself a little bit of a pat on the back, Liz. It felt really good. I love that. And I can totally relate, you know, that so much of sex was tied up in self-esteem for me when I was younger. And now I can relax and not give so many fucks about what other people think about me. Which again, mirrors life, right? I'm like, wow,

look how far I've come in sex. Look how far I've come in life. And then it's exciting to think about where it might go from there. Exactly. And I think, you know, a good, thing to remember is that when you start to feel more confident sexually and you're feeling confident in the bedroom, that can transcend into other aspects of life. So being confident in the bedroom can lead to being more confident in the boardroom. Who you are in bed can really transcend a lot of these different aspects of life. I love that. Can you tell us a little bit about all of your amazing work you have out there? I know you have your wonderful podcast where you dive into these things more, your blog. Tell us a little bit about what you got going on. I run the sex and

psychology blog and podcast. You can find them at sex and psychology.com. And you can listen to the podcast anywhere podcasts are available. I also have a book called Tell Me What You Want. It's all about the science of sexual fantasies. And it's available pretty much anywhere books are sold, including in the form of an audiobook read by yours truly. And I'm on the social medias at Justin Laymiller on Twitter and Justin J. Laymiller on Instagram. Awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today, Justin. I love this conversation. Thanks so much for having me, Liz. It was my pleasure. I am genuinely curious if this episode changed your perspective in any way. So definitely share with me and Dr. Lay Miller on Instagram.

I am at Liz Moody and he is at Justin J. Lay Miller. And please share a link for this episode with anyone you think would benefit or just anyone you want to talk about this stuff with. I feel like the threesome conversation, the porn conversation, it's all just really interesting stuff to get into with friends and partners. And it's just so important to be able to have these conversations in the first place. Even talking about it is making huge strides. And if you are new here, make sure that you're following the podcast on whatever platform you like to listen on. Just go to the main podcast page, the one that lists all of the healthier together episodes. And you will see the word follow under the logo on Spotify.

And then there's a little follow with a plus sign button on the top right of that same page on Apple Podcast. That way, all of the new episodes will show up right in your feed so you know. never miss out on one and we have some incredible episodes coming up, including one all about breaking family pattern so we don't repeat the trauma of our childhoods and one that will make you rethink everything you know about self-care. So make sure that you're following to you do not miss out. Okay, I love you and I will see you next week on the next episode of the healthier Together podcast. The number one rule of habits is to make the things that you want easier and the things that you don't want harder. Yet so many of us want to eat healthier, but so few of us actually take

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