The Liz Moody Podcast - Simple Habits To Make Best Friends As An Adult When You Have No Time

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

If you’ve ever felt like adult friendships are hard (spoiler: they are for everyone!), this episode is for you. I sit down with Lindsey Simcik and Krista Williams, founders, authors, and co-hosts of the wildly popular Almost 30 podcast, who have built a community that’s all about navigating the transitions of adulthood. In this episode, you’ll learn the art of maintaining friendships through life’s many twists and turns, how to honor the different phases of friendships, how to stay connected to friends despite living across the country or world, and why embracing vulnerability is the key to deeper connections. You will also hear specific strategies for maintaining and building friendships, like the clearing conversation. Plus, we tackle the tricky feelings of envy and comparison and offer up how to reframe those emotions into something surprisingly positive. In this episode, we get into: How to make new friends How to maintain a friendship at different stages of life How to navigate conflict with a friend How to have the clearing conversation How to make time for friends when life is busy And so much more! For more from Lindsey Simcik and Krista Williams, find them on Instagram @almost30podcast or online at https://almost30.com. Check out their new book A Definitive Guide to a Life You Love for the Next Decade and Beyond, and their podcast, Almost 30, wherever you listen to podcasts. Listen to Liz interviewed on The Almost 30 Podcast here: The Anxiety Reset: Microhabits That Actually Work. Check out the previous episode of The Liz Moody Podcast discussed today: This Celeb-Beloved Therapy Offers A Radical New Way To Heal With Dr. Richard Schwartz Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order Liz’s book 100 Ways to Change Your Life: The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  Connect with Liz on Instagram @lizmoody or online at www.lizmoody.com. Subscribe to the substack by visiting https://lizmoody.substack.com/welcome.  Use our discount codes from our  highly vetted and tested brand partners by visiting https://www.lizmoody.com/codes.  To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. This episode is brought to you completely free thanks to the following podcast sponsors: AG1: visit DrinkAG1.com/LizMoody and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today. LMNT: go to DrinkLMNT.com/LizMoody to get a free LMNT sample pack with any order. OSEA: get 10% off your first order at oseamalibu.com with code LIZMOODY or LIZMOODY10. Evlo: head to EvloFitness.com and use code LIZMOODY to get 6 full weeks completely FREE. Wildgrain: visit Wildgrain.com/LizMoody for $30 off the first box – PLUS a free item in every box. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast.  This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. The Liz Moody Podcast Episode 355. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you want your life to be like that and you want to never be seen in your truth and you never want to have deep intimate relationships, then sure. Intimate relationships are sort of created and sculpted in the hard times. When we think about how to make friends as an adult, it's also important to think about why is that so important. Have you had friendships where the person stays with, like, a shitty person? I do think that it's important to have new friendships, but I don't want people to ever negate how beautiful some of the relationships are in their life and to invest in those. I thought I was going to be married by 27, have kids by 30. And now I'm like, dang, let me sit back for the movie of my life. That I have no idea what the timing is for most things.

And it's always worked out for the best. Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Liz Moody podcast. Today, we're diving into a topic I know so many of you care deeply about friendship. And specifically, how to navigate the complexities of adult friendships in a world where staying connected feels harder than ever. Our guests today are Lindsay Simsick and Krista Williams, the founders, authors, and co-hosts of the wildly popular Almost 30 podcast. Fun bonus episode for you. I was also on their podcast, so make sure you go check that out. You can search almost 30, wherever you get your pods and that episode should come right up. I absolutely adore these two. Lindsay is a new mom. She's a lifestyle creator. She's known for her holistic approach to life. while Krista inspires their audiences with her vibrant takes on dating and travel and self-care.

Together, they've built a community that's all about navigating the transitions of adulthood with grace, humor, and a whole lot of honesty. So obviously, we are a match made in heaven. In this episode, you're going to learn the art of maintaining friendship through life's many twists and turns, how to honor the different phases of friendships, like having a baby or going through a divorce, how to stay connected despite geographic distances, the power of clear and honest communication, and why embracing vulnerability is key to building deeper connections and how you can actually do that because I know it's scary. You'll get specific strategies for maintaining and building friendships, including a genius friendship reset idea and one of the best tricks for tackling

conflict that I have ever heard. If you've ever felt like adult friendships are hard, spoiler, they are for everyone. This episode is for you. You. Kristen and Lindsay, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So honored to be here. Yeah, truly. So fun to finally get to do this.

I feel like we've talked about doing this for years and years and years. And yeah, I've loved your podcast for years and years and years. And we're going to dive into friendship today. So I'd love to know. Let's just start off with like the big question on everybody's mind, which is how do you make friends as an adult? Like what is your best tip for making a good friend as an adult? Yeah, I think the topic of friendship was something that we wanted to talk about more because it's such an important aspects of our lives. So when we think about how to make friends as an adult, it's also important to think about why

is that so important because connection and community is one of the most important indicators of health. Harvard just had that research study that came out. So having friends and having deep intimate relationships, especially female ones, is so transformative, so empowering and a lot of what makes our life so rich. For people that want to make friends as an adult, what's missing and what's different rather than when you're younger is that you aren't in commonplaces quite often. So when you're younger, you're at school, you're at, college, you're at soccer, you're at, you know, sports or clubs, you have all of these opportunities

to be in proximity. So proximity is often the problem with things. You're usually going to the same job, the same workout classes. You're usually in the same routine. So in order to have the opportunity to find new friends and relationships, it's kind of switching up your routine, just like you would with dating. I think a lot of the same tools and strategies applies to finding new friends as it does to dating. So going to different workout classes, going different routes to work. I think it's also putting yourself out there. You know, when I first moved to Los Angeles in whatever year, I remember I went to this workout class and I started talking to this girl. I was like, I need friends. Like, you said that? Yeah, I was, no, I just in my head was like, I need friends.

And I was like, started talking to her and we were laughing. We were like, key king. I was like, can I get your number? She gave me her number. She never replied to me. It's all good. But I was like, I'm putting myself out there. I'm going to like try and just like give it an at bat. It was a at a commonplace, a workout class that we both could connect in. We both had similar things in common. So proximity is the first thing. So changing up your routine is good and then putting yourself out there is the second one. I also think asking people to introduce you. Like if you have people that you deeply love and connect with, you could be like, hey, who is an amazing person in your life that you think I'd vibe with, that you think we'd get along? Oftentimes when people meet you or people in your life know you, they can often think like, oh, she's really into this. They would vibe well. They would get along. So having people introduce you, I also think is a really great thing that you can do. And I also think, you know, women especially, I think we enjoy going deep pretty fast. You know, the surface stuff isn't always, like, very stimulating. And it doesn't always feel comfortable for me, actually. Sometimes I feel awkward just kind of asking surface questions back and forth. And so I would definitely say if you feel comfortable in the situation, you know, in the first few minutes, like maybe just share something that would bring them in a little bit to who you are as a person. And that might be like, you know, this morning I went to this, like workout class and I was like the only new beginner and it was like a little uncomfortable for me and I'm kind of like coming out of it just feeling like a little insecure. You know, something that kind of

just makes you a little bit more human to someone because I don't know, to me that shows that, you know, you have a little self-awareness, but also that, you know, you're not afraid to be yourself no matter where you are. I think at this age I can pick up on people who are kind of not being themselves in a moment. Not that that's always bad because I think that has. its time at place. But I do think vulnerability is endearing and also just gives me permission to be that too in a moment. And then we can get to kind of the heart of things and just see if it's a match. Yeah, one last thing I was thinking of that sometimes I like to offer is I think oftentimes with friendships you can be like, I need new friends. I want. But I think there are friendships that

you have that need like a system update. So some of my friends that I grew up with, whether it's from Ohio or Chicago or whatever, it's like, they're my friends, but we haven't met the new versions of each other. And we're changing and growing and evolving so much. It's just like romantic relationship. You're going to marry someone and they're going to change and evolve, just like friendship. If you were to re-meet some of your friends, you might discover that you have so much more in common, that you can go so much deeper. Like, I do think that it's important to have new friendships, but I think I don't want people to ever negate how beautiful some of the relationships are in their life and to invest in those. Wait, so how do we give our friendships a system?

I think giving a system update. I think first you have to let go of the idea of that previous friend. You know, as an example, one of my best friends from home. We've been friends forever. I had this specific idea of her. I'm like, she's always late. She's the funny one. Like, you know, I have this perception of her. So if I was to re-meet her as a new person today, I would have to let go of some of those ideas and meet her as if I would a stranger. And you could even do this in relationship and make it funny and interesting. You could be like, it's been a while. I would love to deepen our relationship or see where we're at? Like, could we do a system update and almost like have a first date? What are you into? What do you like? How's your relationship? Like just bringing in novelty.

You could even bring games and cards and just getting yourselves out of the status quo and the patterns that we can get in. Because as an example with my friend from home, the pattern that we're in is always to reminisce. We reminisce the whole time we're together, which is such a nice texture to be in that. But if we were to do a system update, we would be talking about current things in our life, our dreams, our futures, our ambitions, and kind of bringing in a different flavor rather than just the old pattern. Yeah. Because I think when you're relating to that old, like, template of that person, when you first met them, you're also kind of stuck in your own old patterns. So it's like, I do think, you know, if we're going to talk a little spiritual here, I do think on a soul level,

you know, the two souls want to evolve, you know. And so I think that system update just kind of allows you to evolve in a really beautiful way and almost like help each other grow because I think if you have that bond and that love and that deep respect from those early years, you are prime to grow together. And so I think the system update just really kind of kickstarts that. How long have you guys been friends? Ten years. Ten years. Have you had to have this type of moment in your friendship? You know what is interesting. I think what I've noticed in our relationship is because we have been close in working in business. When you work together in business, you're talking all the time. And so our systems were sort of adjusting as we went. And there was no real like break to come back.

So I think when you're in a relationship like a marriage or like ours, it's almost like we were updating the whole time when we were together. So we were kind of able to adjust as we went. Because I was just thinking about when you were talking. I'm like, when we met, we were totally different people. Yeah. Like we were so, I was so much more wound up. I was so much more focused on success. I was so much harder. I was so much more critical. I was so much, I just had a totally different flavor and texture, and I think you did too. And it has been beautiful because we've sort of softened together in our relationship and just in general in life. But I don't think we needed a system update for that because we always are in contact.

And I do think that when we've gone through kind of changes in our own personal lives, you know, because we are best friends, we're definitely with each other through those moments. And because we're 3,000 miles away, it is good to have those like just regular check-ins where, you know, I might not know that she's struggling with something about a recent change in her life. You know, Chris is a very strong person, you know, and I know that she is, you know, always very focused on her own growth. So I could kind of be in a pattern where I'm like, she's good. I know she's going to like grow from this. So we do have to come together and really genuinely check in. Like, you know, how are you in moving through this?

Like, how can I support you in a way that just feels really good? And also, I think just naturally, maybe it's psychically, we just kind of pick up on the changes within each other. And there's no like, it's never pushed me away. It's never made me feel a type of way where I'm like, oh, I can no longer be friends with her. It's almost been this just really beautiful, like letting your friends. grow and change. And it's one of the very few relationships that I've had, that that has been the standard where we let each other grow and change. And you guys have been through so many of the things that my audience writes to me all the time and is having a hard time navigating. So like,

Lindsay, you had a baby and Krista, you guys stayed friends through that. That's a huge, huge change that a lot of friendships are lost over. Do you guys have any practical tips you would share for either people are listening where they had a kid or their friend had a kid and they're having a hard time navigating that moment in their friendship. What I do practically, because, you know, I can't lie that whenever my friends, because I'm single, I just got divorced, it's like are having kids. There is, the highest self version of me is so fucking excited. I can't wait to have another baby in my life and, like, spend time with them. It's some of the favorite relationships are the mothers and my friends. But there is always a tiny part that's like, oh, I'm going to lose them. So what I do is just take time to just like release the relationship and release it in the context

of where it is and allow it to come back in the context that it's going to be in for the remainder of our relationship because you're not going to have the same relationship. And you have to really just accept that. It's like I want people to allow me to grow and evolve. So I want to allow my friends to grow and evolve. So in my mind, I've psychically kind of just taken a second in meditation and just let go of the person and the relationship, just come back home to myself and know that I'm okay no matter what, and then I can re-meet that person with a sense of peace and really a sense of, you know,

love for them and the path that they're on because we all deserve to be truly supported by our friends. And I think oftentimes women are in codependent relationships. I was in so many codependent friendships where it was like if we weren't talking all the time, if we weren't always relating on the same thing, if we weren't talking all day. And just kind of like in this dynamic that was a little immature, then we weren't going to survive. And now being in a relationship that's more mature and that can survive change and transition and sovereignty. It's like that's the only thing I'm available for. What about in a practical sense? Like, do you ever get resentful that you need to align your schedule more to somebody whose schedule is revolving around a child,

you know, very rightfully revolving around this whole new human in the world? Or there's like little moments that come up day to day? No, I don't. And I'm not, I don't want to sound like pretentious at all, but I don't, because I just know that they're going to get me when I have that. And I just, it's just the way it is. I have more time. I have more energy. I have more spaciousness. They don't.

So it's a part of me that shows up in my friendship in that way because that's just the truth. So I could look at the story. You know, the story would be, oh, they think they're better than me because they have a baby and that I don't have as much time and that, you know, my time's not valuable. Sure. Or I could be like, you know, the truth is actually I'm single and I have more time. And they don't. And I love them.

and I am going to go see them because this is true now. And maybe in five years when I'm doing whatever, I'm going to cash in on that truth and be like, I actually don't have as much time, so I need you to show up for me. So in relationships, it shouldn't always be that tick for tact. Like, you know,

they gave me two hours. I give them two hours. Like, that's not how relationships work. And the more flexible you can be, the more you can allow people to just be who they are. I think the better your relationships are. Because I don't want to feel like I have to show up 100% or overgive. But the resentment makes sense.

I think it's just understanding what is benigness. that, like what kind of is there because that type of resentment will erode a relationship. And I think for me as like the mom, and I know other moms that feel this way, there is anxiety about, oh my gosh, I don't have as much time for my friends who I was spending a lot of time with or we would catch up on a regular basis and now that's kind of fallen through the cracks. And so there's definitely an anxiety there and a desire to balance it all. And to Chris's point, it's just a season where there's not much balance, you know, at least in the way that I'm approaching motherhood and maybe people have figured it out

to balance it a little bit more. But I also think it's really important that the, you know, if we're talking moms and people who don't have kids yet, it's like, can you also invite the other person in to express how they're experiencing this? because they might feel like they don't have the space to talk because their life, quote, hasn't changed. But it has. It has for them in the sense in how they relate to you, how much time they're getting from you, et cetera. And so if you can just have, I mean, Krista and I talk about this, having a clearing conversation where, you know, there might be just some funkiness in your

friendship field, you know, and you just want to call it out in a really loving, honest, compassionate way. And hearing from your friend, like, I know it's been a huge change, like, in some ways since I've had a baby and like I just wanted to hear from you like how you've been feeling like what do you feel like is working and what's not or you know is there a way that I can show up to this that would just yeah make you feel more loved or seen or like you know how are you doing and I think that alone does wonders because so many people most people just want to be seen and heard you know and when there's a child in the equation it's hard to like really give a lot of attention to anything else. Our brains completely change. So it's literally neurologically hard.

But I think those conversations just kind of bring you back to the just love that's in the relationship. And you know, the common goal of like, no, I want to make this work. Like I love you. And even if it looks different in this season, how do we do our best right now? Yeah. I had a friend even yesterday who just had a baby. I'm a godmother to a baby. And she messaged me. She's like, hey, do you think I've changed? I just want to let you know that I haven't changed. Like it was just like, so she's like because we've kind of been missing each other and it was just so sweet that she was like hey just so you know I haven't changed like I'm still your friend it doesn't have to be crazy she's like I'm still here I'm still your friend and I think as mom there is that insecurity that you're going to

kind of lose people and I think just the last thing to say like it's allowed me this spaciousness in our relationship of you having your baby has allowed me to deepen with other women like now because Lindsay meets me in so many ways but I'm not going to be texting Lindsay at 9 p.m. like so he's me he hearted what I said. What do you think about that? Like, you know, I have other single friends now that I'm deeper with. And so allowing that space of how this relationship changed has allowed me to deepen with women that are sort of at the phase that I'm at. So I can kind of be in it with them on that and then be with her on this. I love so much of what you said, but I really love the idea of like maybe you can't give a ton of time right now, but what can you give? And you're like,

you can give hearing somebody. You can give showing up, like you can give trying to understand and making them feel seen in their perspective, that doesn't take a lot of time. So I think asking yourself, maybe I can't give everything I want to give right now, but what can I give at this moment is really, really powerful. It's really about the quality. You know, when we do see each other, we're really together. You know, like, I'm not like calling my son every five seconds. And it takes practice because I know this is not easy.

You know, it's a nervous system practice. It's, you know, quieting the chatter in the mind. but I just feel my best when I'm able to be present and like really be with you, you know? Yeah. And, you know, Lindsay's like logged hours, you know, like through my divorce, like Lindsay was there for me for years, just like in the trenches in that whole process. So it's like I could give her the grace that she gave me by processing and being with me for something for years, you know? So friendship always has its balances of seasons, you know, of things. It makes me think of the Michelle Obama quote where she's like, our relationship isn't 15.

50-50, it's 80-20 or at 70-30 or at 60-40. Not that you should be keeping score, but it has to balance out in some way over time. It's not going to be 50-50 in the moment, but it should inch towards that over the long run, I think. And I think if it's not, that's when you start to feel resentful. You feel like I am always showing up for this person and they are not showing up for me consistently over the years in the same way. I think it's so important in friendships and relationships. And I love what you said just speaking to that to understand how you like to be taken care of. For me, I don't need all day.

I don't need constant. But when we're in, I want to be in. So for me, I love trips with my friends. Like a few of my friends, I'll see twice, three times a year. I'll see them for three days on a trip. And it's just deep and intimate. We're not on our phones. We're together.

And that fills me up for the whole year. Or like when I'm with Lindsay, like she's fully logged in to us and to our relationship. Like I don't need to talk to her the weeks in between. Like I don't need little text, memes I love. You know, I have some friends that are just like meme friends. but I think if you know how you like to be cared for and attuned to, so for me, that's presence. It doesn't need to be a lot.

But when we're in, we're in, that's helpful. Maybe someone else loves a call every morning on the way to work. Maybe someone else loves a date night on Fridays or they like cards or it's like finding a love language for your relationship so that you know what it really feels like for you to be in a relationship that feels like it has reciprocity. And asking your friends even. I love that as a question for your friends. How do you like to be taken care of?

I think that's a beautiful question to ask. How would you say you? I like feeling thought of when somebody is not with me. So I love like, I'm at the grocery store and I saw your favorite snack and I thought of you. I listened to this podcast and it made me think of you. I love that. And then I also love really intentional quality time. I could do without like dinners and like I don't need a lot of time, but I want it to be very concentrated and I want to make new memories together in that time.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah, that's the best. The thoughtfulness is sweet. if people can just take a moment and kind of think about maybe their group of five, like, closest friends, I'm sure each one of them has like a different texture to how they like to be taken care of. And when I think of friends who are like you where they are like how you like it, which is like being thoughtful, I'm like, oh, wow, like that is such a unique aspect of my friend

landscape where someone is like thinking of me and not all of them do that. But it's just, yeah, I think it's a really special practice. Yeah. Well, and to, Chris's point earlier, like, it might change over time. So like check in. Ask. I love that so much. The mattress that you sleep on is one of the highest exposures that you have. Like if it's off gassing, you're breathing that in for basically a third of your life. And most conventional mattresses are loaded with synthetic foams, flame retardants, microplastics, and more. Plus, if it's not comfy, you're going to be tossing and turning. You're going to be really hot. And sleep is the foundation of health. It is so important. Because of all of this, if I were not going to invest in

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Again, that's 15% off at oneskin.co with code Liz. Krista, what was the most helpful way that you had friendship for you during your divorce? I love this question. I'm so grateful that you asked. And I have such a answer that is so clear to me. I was in a process of really unlearning and unpacking patterns that I had been in in my whole life. And really, you know, deep.

a deep, deep process, you know, as with my ex for 10 years. So we grew up together. We had such a, you know, deep relationship that turned into a marriage. But they just met me everywhere I was and they never told me I should be where I wasn't. So as an example, I was unlearning patterns of codependency, narcissism, you know, like just types of things that were happening in our relationship. And then when I was just learning about it, no one ever was like, you need to get a divorce, you need to leave. Like, you know, no one ever pressured me. No one ever stressed me out. No one ever forced me or judged me or was like, you know, if you don't leave him, I'm not going to be your, like, every single one of them was like seeing me in this really painful process of my awakening.

And they just were like, like every step of the way. I would take a step to like, oh, this is also happening. And they'd be like, okay, cool. Like, what about this? Like everyone trusted me enough to know that I was going to make the right decision and I was going to do the right thing when it happened. And even when I changed my mind, you know, and I was like, oh, this is, I want to leave. And then I ended up not.

like you were I told you and then I changed my mind and she was like cool we're not leaving never like never like talking bad about him never like you know making me feel any type of way it was just very open and not judgmental and you know if someone's being abused or there's things that are more intense happening there might be a different texture but I just never felt judged or rushed and I think it's important for me to have friends that trust me and trust my soul and like trust the timing of my life because there was I had to turn myself inside out in that relationship I had to to go through therapy. I went to a darkness retreat. I did so much healing. All of this work. And that was so beneficial from me outside of the relationship. And if my friends were like, you know,

sat me down for an intervention, maybe I'd cut myself out of so much growth in learning. Oh, that is so powerful because I do think so many of us see our friends making decisions that we perhaps disagree with or we are hurting for our friends. We're saying you are making decisions that are hurting you and I want to save you from that pain. But you're, You're saying, like, that pain was important to my journey. It was so important. And, you know, but I think people, I think at this point, you're having friends that you trust that they're going to make the moves.

So in life, you know, you might have a friend, you know, I've had friends for a long time. And I've noticed over time just being friends with them a long time, they're in the pattern. It's been 10 years. They're in the pattern. And I let them be in the pattern and I love them from a distance. They might not be someone I'm deeply intimate with because if you're not seeing the truth or you're not invested in your own growth, it's going to be hard for me to relate to you and be in relationship to you. So the friends that I have that were closest to me during this process

knew and trusted me as someone that was always going to grow and always going to look for my, you know, always going to choose the growth path or choose to see my pattern. So I understand how hard it is. Like I've had so many relationships like that where I've almost had to distance myself because it became something that hindered their ability to be someone that I was inspired by and excited by. And I think what I, all that to say, I just think picking friends that inspire you, that you trust who they are is like the most important thing. Lindsay, was it ever hard for you to not say, hey, I think you should be doing this or I think you should be taking this action? Interestingly, no. Like I just, I really did trust Krista. And I think because I like so intimately

was with her during moments of deep growth, whether it was during the divorce or not, I mean, being friends for 10 years, we've been in, like I said, therapy, coaching medicine ceremonies, feelings, and like have just experienced her commitment to her own growth. And so I've always trusted her to do that. I think there were definitely moments where we could have conversations where I could reflect back to her what I'm hearing her say. Because I think when you're so deep in a situation in a relationship for so long, sometimes you can't see certain things. And so I didn't know the answer. I didn't know how this was going to end or continue. Like I really had no idea. But what I could do in the moment is just truthfully either ask her or just reflect back to her. Like, you know,

I remember you saying this like a year ago that you felt this way, you know, and just kind of offering those observations because we were talking about this earlier today. because sometimes we can forget, you know, that this has been going on for a while or that we've been, you know, kind of in process with this for a while or not letting go for a while. So I think that's really helpful as a friend. I didn't tell her what to do or judge her, but I did have moments, I think, of reflection. And she's done that for me countless times. Have you had friendships where the person stays with, like, a shitty person?

And if so, how do you navigate that? I'm like the divorce shaman. If you hang out with me too long, you might get divorced. I swear. I have like two of my best friends are like now like getting divorced. Like we're like in deep relationship. Like Lindsay, no. But like so many of my friends I think go through divorce and reach out because I've sort of been shepherding the way. But yeah, there's there's friends that I've had that are so deep in their pattern like someone I deeply love that I know that I've known forever so deep in her patterns. And I remember a point in time when I was. younger being so invested in her that it would pain me. Like I would just sit at my desk. I'd be like, what is she doing? Why is she with him? I would get so worked up. Like I was, I was completely not living my own life because I was so obsessed with her experience. Like it killed me that she was just in this toxic relationship. And I'll never forget one day, you know, she brought something else. He wrote this really horrible email and we were in my bed. It was in Chicago and we were

reading the email and I was just bawling and I just got so worked up. And then the next morning I was like, I can't do this anymore. I was like, I've done this for 10 years. I've been in this relationship with them for 10 years doing this and I'm just like, something about it just like changed for me where I just saw it clearly and I was like, I can't do this. And so I had to let go of that. So I have had it. It's very painful. And I think I just re-contextualized them in my life as someone that I love, but maybe not someone that I'm going to for advice or I'm like really deepening with because it's important for me that the people that I'm with are on a path of growth. And for me, that means continually looking at yourself and seeing what life is teaching you

and meeting what life is teaching with you to be better and to be better for yourself, to be better for your friends and community, whatever that is. It doesn't mean perfect. But you're always willing to like go see yourself clearly. Our 20s and 30s and 40s and maybe. our whole lives are kind of, they're a weird time because people are going in such different directions with their lives. And I've heard from so many people who feel a lot of envy over like, oh, my friend has a partner and a baby and I want that. Or oh, my friend has this job and I want

that. My friend bought a house. I would love to buy a house. What's your best advice for dealing with envy about our friend's life paths when we compare them to our own? It's interesting because I haven't, I definitely felt that when I was in my 20s. And I haven't felt that in a while. but what I know now being in my 30s is that that feeling of envy was usually, you know, a place or an aspect of me that I've neglected, you know? So if I'm seeing a friend who is living out her dreams in her career and she is like fully expressed and just doing the things she always dreamed of doing and I'm envious, I can probably say with truth that that's like something that I would like to do. And so the fact that I'm not doing it pains me, but I'm projecting that pain onto, like,

her success, where I'm like, I would want that. I would like that. And so I've learned to kind of redirect it when I feel that envy. It's usually an opportunity for me to either take action or get honest about what I'm not doing or what I could be doing more of. And it's been like painful moments in my life because I think it makes me sad when I haven't done the thing that I really, really want to do or it's been on the back burner. But at the end of the day, I, you know, kind of in an energetic way, just thank them. Because I'm like, yeah, you're showing me that it's possible, you know? And that's how I've had to reframe a lot of moments of envy. It's like you're actually showing me that it's possible. And while my expression of that might look different, you're showing me

the way it can feel and the way it can manifest for you. And so I'm thankful. So it might seem a little like corny, but you kind of have to reframe in those moments because envy is just, it's like that surface emotion, but what is a few layers deeper that's actually happening? Yeah, I always think that envy is such an indicator of desire. And now just doing the work that I've done, if I find myself envious, I'll just kind of just, I'll like see myself in that little girl that like desires and I'm like, oh, that's so tender that like I desire that, especially for someone if they're envious of someone that has love or has children, like how tender and sweet that you desire that. You know, how beautiful that you have this wish for family and children.

Like, there's nothing more pure than that than to have a desire for love in your life. And when you can see yourself in that tenderness and that sweetness, I just love that sweetness about me that I crave that. I think each of us, and I'd be curious of what your experiences are, has our own unique thing that we are envious of. Mine is always career, career and success. relationships, babies, I'm good. I feel, you know, fine, but like success and career that you could just get me to the moon. And it's always been that. That's kind of like my Achilles heel. So I know that is

that. So what I do to protect myself or support myself in that is I have every single person on mute. I don't have anybody that I follow not on mute. Every story, every post is on mute. And so nothing comes up on my page. So if I want to engage with my friends or like people that I love, I check in. I'm like, how am I feeling today? Am I feeling confident? Am I feeling resourced? Great. I'm going to go dive into everyone that I love and engage with their content. I'm not going to do it unconsciously. I'm not going to get caught up in the loop without knowing. And I also just remember and try and reframe it like, I just love that I'm someone that wants a big life and that wants more for my life. You know, how can I see that something that feels so gross and icky and uncomfortable as like,

this is such a beautiful indicator of where I'm going. And I know that I'm going to create what I want, even though right now there's a part of me that makes it painful because I believe it's not there. And then as a last thing, usually envy says that we don't have. And I think when we're in the vibration, you know, spiritually, if you want to say it that way, of envy, it means you do not have. And so to get into the vibration of having or knowing that you're going to have or you will be a part of it, I just trust and know. Like in relationships, I'm like, oh, I know. I have no doubt that I'm going to be with someone that I love and family. I have no doubt that I'm going to be a mother one day.

You know, however that happens. And so that vibration of like knowing and peace is so much more likely to call in that rather than being like I'm mad at everyone for not being miserable with me for not having a baby and husband. You know what I mean? Well, okay. So then this isn't quite about friendship, but I do think that's something that a lot of people would like for themselves, but they have a hard time.

getting there. So how do you, how do you get there? How do you, how do you have that knowing and that confidence? To the knowing. Yeah. I would have to say that my spiritual practice is it. So for me, that is a knowing and belief that like, I am someone that is so loving and deeply deserves love and deeply deserves to be in relationship with someone and create life. I'd be lying to say if there wasn't 3% of me that's like maybe them gonna maybe it's not gonna happen you know like but i choose to believe in the knowing because it's better for my mental health it feels better i act better i live better and so when i do all these things like if i was just like it's never going to happen i'm not i'm anxious i can't sleep i'm not you know showing up places how i want to show up like logically

speaking, it acts, it's supportive of me and my mental health to act as if, you know, and so my spiritual practice or the logic just supports me and being like, yeah, it's going to happen. And I can't wait to see how. And like people that I love, amazing people, have amazing relationships. Like, what would make me think that I'd be any different? You know, like, you guys are amazing. You guys have loving relationships. Like, I also will too. You know, I'm around people that have that. I think to add to that, the trust and the knowing, you can look back on your life and find proof. So I can look back on my life and find proof that I can trust the timing of my life, you know, and I was single for seven years. And I definitely had moments during that single period

where I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to find him, you know? And when, you know, Sean came back into my life and I just knew he was my person, I look back on that very often. Anytime I feel like, where's the thing or why isn't this happening now? Or everyone else has their roses like, where's mine? Like, what is this? And it just gives me a lot of peace and confidence and I'm able to lean back a little bit and just be in awe of the timing of my life. You know, it's not how I planned.

I thought I was going to be married by 27, have kids by 30, you know, be a famous actress, and all these things. And now I'm like, dang, let me sit back for the movie of my life. I have no idea what the timing is for most things. And it's always worked out for the best. And when it doesn't feel like it's for the best, there's usually, to Christ's point, just something in there for me to learn and to grow through. So I know it kind of feels like, you know, kind of high vibes, spiritual.

bypassing, but it's actually not. You know, our minds, our minds are very powerful. And so our minds can convince us that we'll never get it. It's not happening for us. Everyone else gets their things and I don't. And that will become your reality. And so it's actually a neurological rewiring, creating a new pathway that can be so powerful to create a reality where you do believe and trust in the unknown and trust the timing

of your life and it'll change your life. An interesting problem of modern friendship is that we all do live in so many different places now. Like I have best friends in London and New York and L.A. and the Bay Area. And I feel like I put a lot of energy into all these different friendships, but I don't necessarily always have somebody to hang out with on like a Saturday morning. But I don't have the energy to go out and make a whole new friend for a Saturday morning. Yeah. How do you guys navigate that or suggest other people navigate that?

Yeah. I think when we have the long distance relationships and friends, you know, you can always do cute things like Zoom dates or like something virtual that's like really fun to connect. I usually go on walks with my friends. So we'll be like Saturday morning or even during the week we're like 7 a.m. Let's go on a walk. And we'll walk around my neighborhood. They'll walk around their neighborhoods. We kind of stay connected. We kind of stay connected. One of my friends will always like when we're running errands. We're like running errands. Like are you running errands? Like are you running errands? Like are you running errands? Like, are you running errands? Like, are you running errands? Like, are you running errands? Like, are you running errands? Like, are you running errands. So we'll do like the simple things. Like I'm about to go on a walk. Are you available. Are you available? Or we schedule? Or we schedule? Or. Or we. Or we or just like errands dates, we'll just kind of be talking when we're doing errands. And then I think, you know, we talked about this a little bit. But I just think when you have your cup full with like a trip with those people, it just lasts. Like it goes the distance where you just get so full where the Saturday morning where you're not with them, you're just like, you feel so good and you're ready to be by yourself even. You're just like, feel so filled up from my relationships going deep for this weekend or that

week or whatever that that's really supported me, I think. Yeah. And I think having, it sounds unsexy, but scheduling like a monthly catch up, you know, for people that, my best friend from high school who lives in New Jersey not far from me, but far enough to where we're not seeing each other much at all. We see each other maybe three times a year. But we have a monthly check, like a check in where we just, we talk about like, you know, her relationship, my relationship, the highs, the lows, like what we're kind of working through right now, like what we want to celebrate, just really go in for like. an hour and only an hour. You know, we kind of are like, hey, do you have time from five to six and we'll fit it in? I love the idea of having, I was listening to a podcast recently where they said hang date should have like an end time. So, you know, we always say a start time. Say like six to eight. I love that idea for phone calls for then because like sometimes people over your house and like I had such a good time and like you're ruining the vibe by not leave. Yeah, like just leave.

Totally. Leave on a high. I'm the number one Irish exeter. Oh, I do too. I love an Irish exit. So much. days they're blowing out the candles and I'm out the door. It's doing them a favor. It's such awkward. I think if you hate small talk, you love an Irish exit because a normal exit is just small talk. Oh my God. And you're like, let's hang.

You're like, I'll see you. And then you're like scheduling fake hangs with so many people. I'm enjoying this hang. I don't need to be planning the next hang. So yeah, I love the idea of like we're going to talk from five to six. And at six, even if you're mid sentence, like it's done. And have it in the calendar. I think that's so smart.

It just keeps you accountable because life happens. And you're going to, you know what I mean? If you say you're going to do it and it's not scheduled, you're probably not going to do it. I think what supports those types of conversations and staying connected with friends is also having something to react to. This can help in any sort of conversation, whether it's romantic on a date or even with family. It's like, hey, listen to this podcast and let's talk about it when we're on our next call. Hey, did you see this thing?

Let's talk about it. So you have this like easy entry to meet each other. Because sometimes especially with friends that you haven't talked to them in a long time, it can feel hard to be like, how are you? You know, you're like six months has happened. I don't know how I am. I don't know what we're talking about. I don't know who I, you know, I know nothing.

So kind of having a place to start where I'll like send pictures of us like 10 years ago. Like, oh my God. And then we can start with that. Open with that. Just kind of like get the ball rolling with feeling connected and feeling good rather than like having like a cold opener. Or send an agenda. Yes. Do you actually do that?

Sometimes I like you like. I'm like, I want to know what's up with your boyfriend. Like what's up with Ray? Last time I talked to you, this was happening. Oh, man. I love this. You just bought a house. Like, what's been the hardest thing? What's been your most favorite thing? Like, just like in the Google calendar invite? Yeah, because it's, because to Chris's point, we'll kind of spend like, you know, 10 minutes on like really stupid stuff. Yeah. Like, let's get to the heart of it. We know we kind of want to touch on certain things and she'll add to it. Yeah. You asked me earlier, like, what is my friendship sort of love language? And I will say that when we go out and all we do is

say, like, report on our lives. I hate it. It's my, it is my least satisfying type of hangout. I'm guaranteed to come home and just be like, that was so boring. Like, I hate that I'm having to put effort and time into this friendship. If I've, all I've done is say, like, well, here's everything that's new with me and gone down the list. And they've done the same for themselves. What questions do you ask to have a different experience? So I like the interesting input thing. I'll sometimes just come prepared on my end. Like, here's this really interesting podcast that I was listening to, it made me think about this. What do you think about this? I'll kind of have these things in my arsenal to spark the conversation. But I love the idea of my husband and I do an

articles club where we'll read an article together and then we'll talk about it every Wednesday night. Because again, it sparks different conversations than like, did you unload the dishwasher? Like, how's your work today or whatever? Even the people we love the most, especially with the people we love the most. We need new input. So I love the idea of like doing that together. I have a friend that's always like, I give her the download. She's like, what else? She's like, what? You know, just I'm like, I'm like, I'm getting tired. You're like, this is all I have. No, literally. I'm like, I'm like, what do you want? Like, there's not. Honestly, she's like, my life's boring. What else? And I'm like, I don't, this doesn't feel reciprocal. It doesn't feel good. But it is such a beautiful texture when

you're with friends and you're like, and you're like, and you're like, and you're talking about something random from childhood or random from the week or random from work. And you're like, oh my God. It's like a relationship where you see your person in a different light. And you're like, wow, cool. Yeah, do you guys know the like before movies, like before sunrise, before sunset, before midnight? On one of my trips, we did that. We did the whole before series.

It's crazy. It's great. So it's Richard Linkletter and they basically, he's the director. He's the director. And they filmed this movie called Before Sunrise, I think in the 90s. And then 10 years later, they got back together the same actor and actress, Ethan Hawke and Julie Delby. And they filmed before sunset and it's the same character is meeting again 10 years later.

And then they meet again 10 years later. midnight, so you're watching these characters over 20 years of their lives. Wow. They're incredible. But they walk and talk and have these rambling, like 12-hour conversations in every movie. And I feel like that's always my goal for like a friendship hang. I'm like, I want a before sunrise or before sunset moment, you know? Oh, I love that. Before midnight's a little more complicated, but. Spoiler alert. Yeah. But he's in my neighborhood. That's the best feeling, though, with friends and, you know, we have so much time together. So it's so nice where I just sometimes feel like I open my brain up and just whatever comes out, whatever comes out.

And that's the comfort thing that I think is hard. I think when people say making friends as an adult is hard, they do sort of mean like, where do I meet people, whatever. But I think what people really mean is how do I get to that level of comfort? I don't have the energy and the time to get to that level of comfort. And I don't want to sit in the, I'm not that comfortable for the amount of time it takes to get there. Yeah. Because what is it? How many hours? There's like a 200. 200, yeah. 200 hours to make. a close friendship. Yeah. And so that's why it's a lot. It's a lot. And you want to be yourself. Like, I think it feels really hard to be like, I just want to get to the point where we can like sit

silently and watch TV, but I feel the comforting calm of your presence. But like I don't want to put in 200 hours to get there. So what do we do about that? I think too. I also go with chemistry with friends. So whenever I meet like friends, there's a chemistry for me where I'm like, oh, I want more. And it does feel like it's not like romantic, but there's this vibration of wanting more where I'm like, okay, so I'll hang out with them a little more. And if I don't feel like we're getting closer or we're connecting more deeply, I kind of'm like, okay, maybe my time is better spent. So it's almost like dating still where it's like, could I see us deepening? Do I feel safe with you? Do I feel good with you? Could I see this going somewhere? And if not, maybe spending my time elsewhere. But for me,

I was go with chemistry. Is there like a fast track, though, you think? Like, is there like a speed round through the 200 hours? I think what you just said is actually it hit me as something that I I would love to hear from like a new friend where you can say like, you know, this is this is what the research says, but I'm actually someone who just likes to be able to truly be myself wherever I go and with whoever I'm with. So I would love for that to kind of be like the standard in in my relationship. So I just think there's a way to set the tone where you can show up as yourself in every moment with a new friend and it almost acts as like just a filtration system of its own. They're either going to be interested, connect, and you'll feel safe and it'll flow and have chemistry or it won't. But if you're

not yourself pretty early on, if not right away, then you have to do that. And then you have to kind of walk back and be like, actually in these moments, I don't really want to talk. And I might need silence. You know what I'm saying? So how do you have a conversation pretty early on where it's I don't know about you, but like, you know, small talk isn't my thing. Or I'm working on just trying to be myself wherever I go. Can we sit silently together? I'm okay with silence, but like I'm just, you know, I'm really practicing this in relationships that I want to deepen in.

So just kind of bringing them in on what's going on in your mind, I think is actually really endearing. Yeah, I love that. And just it would make me feel safe. It would be like, oh, damn, I love that you just shared that. That like makes me feel comfortable to be myself and not have to be. to put up any mask or just any front when we're first meeting. Me and Lindsay always go, sh, sh, sh, sh, when we don't want to talk anymore.

No, we'll be like, no talky, talking. No, we'll be like, no talky, talky, stop, stop. Like, we ate dinner after our Austin tour stop. Literally, I was facing completely this way. She was facing this way, and we were just, like, eating. I was like, no, no, no. It was just like, dude, we were just two little trolls. I also think on the thing of, like, I want to be myself. Like, what is that? Like, who are you? This is the thing. I think people want other people to tell them who they are. But if you know who you are, then you can be yourself in almost every moment or with someone. And I think if you know who you are, you know who you're going to feel good around and it makes it easier to kind of filter, you know, and discern. But I think sometimes people are waiting for a relationship to show them who they are rather than just being who they are. What is one practical action step we can take to figure out who we are? The way that I've discovered who I am was through internal family systems, parts work. So if you're in therapy, seeing if you're a therapist does parts work, reading no bad parts.

That was the book by the founder, Dick Schwartz. So Internal Family Systems is a psychotherapy technique that really helps you find your true self by understanding the multiple parts or aspects of you. And I think it's the quickest way to find out who you are. It's been my favorite. And we had him on the podcast, so we will link that in the show notes. Did you do a live? Yeah, I went into the podcast and I was talking my team and I was like,

the only thing I don't want to happen in this interview is for him to do a live session on me. I'm just going to direct him towards the questions because I'd heard him on other podcasts and like he loves to go into live session. I was like, I don't want that to happen. And of course, he like directs this and do it. And I can't be like, no, dick. Sorry, he's not going to do that. So yeah, we did it.

We did that too. And I kind of wish we like didn't. Oh, you did. It's also just, it's very hard to feel like you're hosting a pod. You're like, I want this to be entertaining for people. And I want to give him a real reaction. It's a more complicated dynamic, but I love the podcast. I think it's really like, it's a great, great framework for therapy and it's obviously

helps so, so many people. And he's amazing. He has a whole website and there's tons of different high-fas trained practitioners. I have a very existential answer. I just feel like, you know, my commitment to like knowing myself along the way, I feel like has helped me to be who I am in every moment, even if like parts are a little, like I'm still discovering. parts. I think just the confidence and trust I have in myself to always be there with myself and to ask questions, internal questions, get curious about, hmm, why am I showing up to this

relationship in this way? Why am I feeling triggered about this? Or, you know, what really lights me up? You know, not what everyone's telling me I should do, but like what really lights me up? I think just that commitment to yourself, I think, has helped me to show up as myself in more and more moments as I've gotten older. So yeah, I couldn't like, you know, read you a bio right now of like who I am in that sense. But I think, you know, those constant questions and constant self-check-ins just help me feel like safe within myself. And I think that shows in my relationships now, whereas before I felt very codependent or I was waiting for people to like validate me and tell me who I am. What would you say? Oh, I hate doing the other podcasts. I know. You're such a good question.

I just do think the audience would love to hear what you have to say because I actually would love to hear too. Because I think this is such an interesting question that doesn't really, there's no real, that's hard to find a concrete place of finding who you are. I think that I look for the moments that I feel most holy myself and I try to note what's going on in those moments. And then I try to replicate those moments as much as possible. So I think that I'm looking for where am I, I'm almost acting like a detective in my own

life and when I feel the most comfortable in my skin, I'm paying attention to that. And when I feel like I'm getting smaller, I'm paying attention to that. When I'm feeling expanded, like maybe this isn't who I am right now, but maybe it's pushing me in a direction I want to be. I'm paying attention to that. And I'm trying to lean into the ones that are pushing my life in the way that I want it to go. I think what's important in all of ours, too, is having witness state because you have witness. So you're witnessing. I'm experimenting. I'm watching myself. And I think that's consciousness. So whether that's achieved through meditation or whatever, you have to have the view of witnessing yourself. And I think that's what parts work does is I'm able to see, oh, there's a part of me,

the perfectionist is here. That's not the true me. The part of me that's functioning, the belief she has to be perfect to be loved is not the real Krista. You know, so when you can witness yourself, I'm witnessing, oh, I feel really good in this moment or like they really make me laugh or like I feel soft in my body or comfortable in my body. That's when you can really make the change. But I don't know if it's when your prefrontal cortex comes online, which is a lot of what we wrote about in the book. But there's like that consciousness is what really creates the opportunity, I think. I also think inherent in that too is spaciousness and quiet. I think it's really hard to figure out who you truly are if all you're doing is being bombarded by other people's opinions.

Like it's so easy to scroll on social media and be like, oh, I feel this way about this thing. Oh, wait, no, that was a really good argument. I feel this way about this thing. And it's really hard to be like, what are my actual thought? So it's something that I try to do, whether it's about like a book or a movie that I've watched or a political situation or whatever is going on. I try to sit in what are my perceptions on this first? What are my, what's my reaction? And then I'll go and I'll find more information.

And I'm very open to having my mind changed all the time. But I like to ask myself, like, what's my thought on this first? Because I think right now we have so many opinions available to us that our first instinct can be to like go to rent. Even like I've had friends where we go out to eat at a restaurant and before they even know what. what they thought of the food. They're, like, seeing what the reviews of the food. So they'll eat it. And they'll be like, do I like this macha?

And then they'll be like, what does Reddit say about this macha? You know? And it's like, well, no, do you like this match? Do you like this book? What do you think? Right. And especially with, you know, all respect to Reddit. But it's like, you know.

Reddit's a magical and terrifying place. Terrifying. But it's like, if I was in a room with a bunch of people, and I looked at a stranger, I'd be like, I don't know if I'm going to take their opinion on life. So why would you take someone's Reddit opinion? on your life. Yeah.

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friends are going to react. And I don't know what it is. I'm curious what you guys think or if you've noticed this as well. And then also how we can get over leaning into those uncomfey moments that might pay off in a bigger way down the line. Yeah, I've definitely had this experience where I'm like, oh, I think I'm tired because I'm already thinking about just like the work that it's going to take to get to the other side.

And I think the reality is friendship is work, just like a romantic relationship. It does take work. It does take having those uncomfortable conversations, being honest, telling the truth to yourself and the other person. And for me, as someone who like didn't do that most of my life, it's hard. It still is hard, but I'm committed to it. I also think that not only are people worried about what their friend is going to think if they bring something up to them and also that they're exhausted.

I also think people are worried about, you know, how they are going to be viewed, just this very deep wound of I don't want to be disliked. I don't want to be hated. I don't want to be seen as someone who just creates, you know, fill in the blank. That was one of my stories. but if you are in a deep relationship and something's coming up, you owe it to the relationship. You know, to ignore it would be to ignore, you know, like the beating heart of the relationship. So it does take tending.

It's a living, breathing thing. One of the practical ways I think that, you know, we have really kept our relationship very healthy. I mentioned earlier, but didn't really describe how we do it is the clearing conversation. And this is a practice that we started years back, when we were just in a season of stickiness. You know, we were just moving through a lot of stories we had about ourselves and the other person and within our business and friendship dynamic that was developing at the same time. We became business partners and friends basically at the same time.

And it's complicated. It's a very complex thing. And so these clearing conversations started on walks that we would have together and we would go on walks because, you know, to move the body, when you're having a hard conversation is actually very beneficial. You know, keep the blood pumping. I think when we're stagnant in one place, we kind of get very tense. And so the walk is just so beneficial.

Also, you know, sitting across from each other, looking into each other's eyes, can put you in that fight or flight state? You know, it's like, can we go on a walk? Yes, you can look at each other, but can we just have another place to look that's very natural and just gives us a moment to kind of collect our thoughts, regulate, tune in, see how we're feeling. And so this conversation is a place where we're going to come and be very honest with each other, committed to honesty, our own truths, and be incredibly respectful, be compassionate, and just, you know, have love at the center of it all because at the end of

the day, it really is us against the problem. You know, we have love for each other, but we really want to get to the root of like what's coming up here. It's been so beneficial because it really clears the distortion, which I think, you know, is 90% of the problem when you're feeling the stickiness. We might not come to a solution in the clearing conversation, but we clear the distortion and we're able to get to the truth. What is she really feeling? What is her experience? What is her story about me or our friendship and vice versa? And then we can kind of take a deep breath and feel like, okay, now we're working with what's true. And let's either have another conversation a few days later after we just have a moment,

integrate, and reflect, or we might have a solution in the moment. But it's just been so instrumental to the health of our relationship. And it gives us a container that we can depend on and feel safe in. So we'll literally say, let's have a clearing conversation. We'd love to have a clearing conversation about, you know, what was coming up last week when we were traveling or whatever it is. I love that if both parties are as evolved as you guys are. I feel like I hear from so many listeners and I've experienced in my own life.

Like, God, I have to have this conversation with this person. I know how they're going to react. It's not going to be like, can we say, can we say, I think we should do this thing called a clearing conversation? Here's the rules of that. Or how do we approach that? Yeah, absolutely. Just be like, I heard this on a podcast.

I don't know. I heard this on the podcast. I don't know. I don't know if it's going to work. A framework in our book, too. Yeah, the framework's in the book. And you can even just be like, I would love to try it. You know, it's, it sounds like it's really worked for some people, but I just feel like we're not able to really connect lately in a way

that we both feel good about. And I think this might help us just really bring truth to this conversation because, you know, it's awkward to bring something to a relationship that might alter it or make the other person feel uncomfortable. So I just think it's a really great framework. One of my favorite ways to support conversations like that, whether you're, you know, emotionally advanced or mature is, you know, with anybody in life, even like people like my parents, is using something called security statements. And security statements are just so powerful because it frames the conversation in a way where the person's so much more likely to lean in. Lindsay's what taught me this years ago. I remember with my ex in our communication, I would just be like, sit them down. I'd be like, you know what?

You were doing this and you were doing that. and just like going off and immediately defense. Like I'm on the defense. If you are saying you statements, Janine Roth says every you statement could be an I statement. So if you're saying you statements, you're going to be on the defense. If you're just coming through,

instead I'll never forget. You know, Lindsay was like, how about you say like, I love you so much. You're my best friend. This relationship means so much to me. And I'm feeling really hurt by this thing. So in that, instead of saying, you suck, you're the one that did this thing.

Like you're so much more likely to show up in that way as someone's best friend, as a lover, if you have the security statement. So any relationship could benefit from something like that. And then you taking responsibility of like, oh, you know, I noticed something came up last week when you were over. I felt a little activated by, you know, this thing. And I think for me at this point, I can have grace for people, but the ability to have an emotionally mature conversation is a must for me.

So it's almost like if we're not able to go there and I've had relationships and because we weren't able to go there, I'm not going to be as close with you as we could. But it's hard. I mean, finding someone that has done as much work as we have is, you know, hard. And I'm not perfect. I'm not saying that I'm perfect. Like, we just have the perfect sort of synergy to create the beautiful dynamic. I've had relationships where I'm like struggling, you know, so it's not easy. Can you make an argument for having these harder conversations for somebody who's listening? I have a lot. I hear a lot. Like, it's fine. We just won't have the conversation, we'll have this like surface level friendship and it'll be fine. Like it's not, it's not,

the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Like, can you tell us why the juice is worth the squeeze? Yeah, if you want your life to be like that and you want to never be seen in your truth and you never want to have deep intimate relationships, then sure. How you do one thing is how you do. Yeah. Deep intimate relationships are sort of created and sculpted in the hard times. I think when I was in my early 20s, I had friends and it was like, we'd have so much fun together. We'd go out and then any bit of psychic debris or rupture or weirdness would just cause us to combust at some point. And now I've realized that like I want to be loved for all that I am. And that means when I'm cold and that means when I'm short and that means that I'm controlling.

And that means when I'm not perfect in these hard conversations. And so to show up in these hard conversations and be like, yo, there's a part of me that's feeling neglected right now and there's a part of me that's really jealous and there's a part of me that's like that. And then someone can meet you and be like, oh my God, I love you. Like I'm so sorry. You feel that way. Like that to me is like healing.

That's intimacy and that's truth. and I have service level relationships for sure, but I think when we can get clear on who in our life is able to hold us in that way and then really deepening with them and committing to that, just like a romantic relationship, we can really see ourselves more clearly, become the woman we came here to be, and heal in a way that I think is missing and healing.

You know, I've done therapy for years. I've done so many different therapeutics, you know, trainings, practices, whatever. But like, to be having a conflict conversation with someone that you love and be met and loved through it is like, nothing better. Nothing better. Like, you know that in romantic relationships, too. Like, when you go to your partner and you're like, this really brought up something and they're like, oh my God, I love you even more.

You're like, you love me when I'm not perfect? Like, that's the best. Yeah. What's a friendship struggle that you guys have had recently, separately or together and how have you overcome it? I would say I'm having, this is the thing. It's like, is it reality friendship or is it in my mind? You know what I mean? Like, is it a true struggle?

I think lately because my tendency is overfunctioning. So I over function in almost all my relationships. So I'm always available. I'm always there. I'm going to show up 1,500%. I'm going to give everything. And I, you know, I remember one day, it was like a few weeks ago. I was on the phone from 8 a.m. to like 6 p.m.

just with people processing stuff like all day. But recently because of the book, and I'm sure this would be the same with motherhood at times 100, I haven't had capacity. I'm on interviews all day. I'm interviewing hour and a half long conversations where I'm really thinking, I'm processing, it's, you know what it is. And I've been traveling and we've just been, and so I haven't been able to show up for people. And that's been really hard for me.

And it's made me lately, even this week, I'm like, oh, I think this person's mad at me. You know, I think they're pulling away. Like, you know, I think that they're upset or whatever. And so I'm creating stories that when I'm not overfunctioning, I'm not loved. And that when I'm not perfect, I'm not. loved because I have to show up perfect and I have to over function to be loved. So for me and this, it's, it's, I clear with myself and lately that even this week I was feeling it. There's like three friendships that I feel like that with where I'm like, oh, I think they're pulling away because

I'm not being perfect or showing up whatever. And I'm like, okay, am I tired? Is this a story? Yeah. Could this be true? Maybe. Like, it's just kind of checking in with myself and like having a moment with myself. And then I'll kind of think about, do I want to bring this to them to create deeper intimacy? And for me, that looks like, hey, babe, the story that I'm telling myself is that, you know, I'm not showing up for you and that what I've done in our relationship has not been enough lately. And I'd love for you to tell me the truth. And that could be true. And if she's going to say that's true, I'm available for that. You know, I'm available for to be like, yeah, I don't think you've been showing up. And I'm like, great, sounds good. Like, what can I do? And, you know,

truth doesn't bother me because sometimes it affirms me a little bit, where, you know, I'm like, ooh, I had the intuitive hit and it feels good. I'm like, okay, cool, I knew. It's not my preference. But, yeah, it's like checking in with myself on, like, my own stories. Because usually a lot of times relationship issues are our stories. You know, in our relationship, for a while, it was like I had the belief that I cared more than she did. Your Aunties?

Yeah. Because I was always overfunctioning or I just always, I care. I'm a deep feeler. And so I just have always, her or other people, I always feel like I care more. And so I had that story with her. And, you know, to create deeper intimacy, I bring her in on it. I'm like, hey, the story I'm telling myself is that you don't care as much as me. Like, and she's like, oh, interesting.

Is that your best way to deal? I feel like that in a lot of my friendships. And I've heard that from a lot of other people as well, this, like sense of like, I'm the one who cares the most about the friendship here. It's a not enoughness, I think, showing up there. Is that, do you feel like bringing the other person in is the best way to deal with that? Or are there other ways that you deal with that? Yeah, I think bringing the person in because it's been like so tender and loving. They're like, oh my God, you're the best. Like it's all okay.

You know, it's totally fine. So I think that's been helpful. For me, that's my own indicator of my own work of like, okay, cool, when am I over functioning? Because that's what I feel like I have do to be loved. And how can I just be loved as I am? And how can I be loved if I'm imperfect? Like there's also that belief where I have to show up to every conversation, happy, interesting, bubbly. I have that one. You know, yeah. Oh my God, I'll leave places and be like, not my best work.

I'm, no, I mean, to the point where I'm like, what are other people doing conversationally when I'm not around? Because I feel like I'm, like, doing so much work to like have, and people have fun. They're like, that was such a great night. But I feel like I put in so much work to make it a great night that I always want to be a fly on the wall and be like, what is this look like? Is there always somebody there who's over-efferting? And if I'm not there, is that somebody else or what does that look like?

Totally. Sometimes I've noticed it's, I'm over-efforting and it's taking up space that someone else could take up or some other thing could happen naturally. Like, I've noticed that in dating because I'm so logged on. Like if you're with me, we're fully like, in, like, I've noticed with men, sometimes it's like overwhelming. Because I'm like, we are going to be in. Like you're in and. Yeah, there's no spaciousness. That's interesting.

But I think what friendships do, I think what we're all talking about here at the highest level, what people can take from this is like, what is your friendship teaching you about you? Lindsay has taught me that I have to be perfect to be loved. I have that belief. That's not true. That I have to overfunction to be loved. That I feel like I have to control the dynamic to have it be good because that's control. Yeah. It's the best. I mean, I'm the same exact. Like when I come in, I'm like, get ready to have the best night of your life, baby. Like this is and it's on and popping, but I'm also controlling. Yeah. And sometimes it's and sometimes I get curious about if people would rather have it breathe and see what's going to happen. You know, like what are we going to talk about like without this thing? So I just think approaching it for your growth and making everything about you in the sense of, you know, life being a teacher. Just as far as what I'm moving through friendship-wise currently, I have a best friend and I think who I've been best friends with since like sixth grade and were not speaking at the moment. And there wasn't like a final conversation. There's very complex layers to this, especially in his experience right now.

I've been talking to my therapist about this intermittently over the last like six months and just I don't feel the desire to reach out and get curious about what's happening or how we can mend this or like remand. meet each other in this moment. And I've had, I'm really trusting that if we are meant to come back together, that I will know. Right now I feel no desire. I actually feel a little sense of relief, which is kind of fucked up to say. Yeah. I mean, do you feel, I imagine it's hard to process. Like, you want to have that or should you have this or like shame around not having

that desire. Yeah, yeah. I have, I have like that shame around like, man, am I being a bad friend? but I think what, you know, to kind of repeat a headline of this conversation, I really, I'm trusting him and I'm trusting myself in this. And, you know, there are aspects of our relationship over the years that I am now seeing in a different light based on what I know now. And it doesn't mean it's bad. It doesn't mean I regret it. But it's just reframing my experience with him. and I actually did need a break.

And so I'm sharing this because I think we shame ourselves a lot about taking a break from our friends and what it means to take a break. And I don't know if we'll reconnect. I don't. I actually have no idea. I would love to down the line. But I think my work in this moment has been don't shame yourself into just reaching out to be the better friend. Because that intention is actually not pure to me.

You know, I really want to reach out when I am feeling like, okay, I'm feeling like an opening. I'm feeling like my heart is open. I'm feeling just that very true desire rather than because I want to be the better friend. So the piece of this too that I'm learning is that it's healthy. You know, they could be healthy to take space and relationships do ebb and flow. I think that's the natural, very innate nature of relationships. To hold on to relationships so hard and white-knuckle them, I think can be more detrimental in seasons where maybe they're meant to breathe.

So, yeah, it's hard. How much clarity of conversation needs to happen around that? Like, do you think we need to say maybe this is a breathing moment? Maybe we'll come back together. Are we ghosting in these scenarios? What does it look like pragmatically? Yeah, I think ideal you're having a conversation. Like, not me in this moment, but like I do.

Yeah, not me in this moment. The audience should, but not I. Not me in this moment. I actually did offer. So I reached out kind of during that intense period and I said I would love to talk about, you know, what you shared with me. And I would love to go deeper on that and just understand more. And he said, no, thank you. So that to me was just a closed door for now.

And so I'm not waiting for him to open it. I'm not like, you know, he has the ball in his court. It's more just I'm letting it breathe because, yeah, I think he's in a process. I'm also like deeply in another chapter of my life. And I was with him in his process for many, many, many years, two hours on the phone a few days a week. So I just, you know, there's a time and place for individual processing too, you know. Can you leave us with one homework assignment from each of you? Just something that we could all do as soon as we turn off this podcast that would improve the quality of our friendships.

I just want to say I loved our conversation. I'm so grateful. You're such an amazing interviewer. You truly are. I can't believe it took us this long to like do that. I know. I'm so grateful. Like I just and your audience is so smart and cool.

They really are. Every time I meet them in real life, I'm like, I'm sure you guys feel like this too. I'm just like how, like where are these people? in the world. Do you want to be friends? Yeah, literally. Speaking of friendship, I'm just like, where are these? Yeah, we need to, like, have them come together in community because they're always just the best. I think what would be helpful for people to do right now, just like what you would do for a romantic relationship and someone you're calling in, is right down, like, the texture of relationship you're looking for. So, like, I'm calling in relationships that feel reciprocal, where I feel

seen and heard, that people show up for me without even me asking, where we spend. Where we spend, you know, two weekends a year traveling, where we talk on the phone once a month, where we, like, are able to complement each other on whatever. Like, whatever you're truly looking for in relationship, it's so much easier to get that if you're clear. So just having a journal practice of getting clear on what a really deep relationship that fulfills you looks like so you know how to go out in the world and cultivate that in the relationships you have or to call that in.

I also love that because, to the point of this episode, one of the beauties of friendship is that it is an incredible tool for us to get to know ourselves and doing that practice. You're going to be, well, what do I like in friendship? Like, what am I looking for? What makes me feel fulfilled and satisfied? Like, I like a lot of play. Play is like, play. What does play look like is a grown-up for you?

What do you mean? Because I'm like, I did, have you guys done Hoffman or no? I did on-site, which is like Hoffman in Nashville. I've done on-site. Okay. I've done them all. I'm doing Hoffman in December. Mutil Olivia.

But there's like a play day at Hoffman. I don't want to give it away too much, but we're like you really tab into that child, like energy and you play, like, playground games and stuff like that. And I'm like, oh, I want that in my life. But I can't, like, call up. Maybe I could call it people. I'm like, you want to play a Red Rover. But, like, it's a little.

Oh, I love that. You know, like, how do you bring play into your life as a grown-up? I play all the, I just, like, mess with people. Like, I just, like, I touch people. I tickle people. I do voices. Like, I just am, like, I just. You like a goofiness.

Yeah. Just a goofiness. I prank. Oh, prank. I, like, mess with people. I just bring it into every. everything that I do. Wait, I want to be prank. But I do. Yeah, careful. Yeah, honestly. Dude, I like roast everybody. Like, one of our contractors, she's amazing. Her name, Sam, she sent us this

picture of her dog because I was sending pictures of my cats. And I just do stuff like that. Like, just to lighten people up, I'm, like, sending our contractors pictures of my cats on a random day. And then she's sending me pictures of her dog. And there was, like, Pokemon, like a Pokemon stuffed animal. I'm like, I'm ignoring the Pokemon. And then she's, like, telling me about her Pokemon collection. And we're just like, I'm roasting. You You know what I mean? Living lightly. Living lightly. I think there is like, I'm like, I'm I'm such a, I want the depth and I think that's so important. And I think it's equally and it's important to remind ourselves in the beauty of living lightly. Yes, it is like, because what is depth is, depth doesn't need to be drowning. You know, depth can just be truth. I feel like depth for me

is truth. When I'm being deep, I'm just saying what's real. Like, oh, I feel anxious about friendship right now. I feel really sad about the fact that, you know, whatever. And it's like, that doesn't feel like this. So lightness, I think just bringing in an air every day pranking. I think playing games is a good one. I think what also we've done with some of my friends in L.A. is once a month, once a month we have a night where each one of us planned something. So we did like hip hop dancing. We did like comedy night. We're doing a roast on Monday. Like, yeah. That's fun. Yeah. To the play question, I think having a child is just like an immediate doorway into like playing if you allow it. You know, it's like entering into his world is like my, my favorite thing,

having no agenda, not criticizing, not judging, not trying to control anything. just like being a witness and also like active participant and whatever he's creating. I'm not worried about a thing but being present with him, you know, and that could mean like crawling around on the floor like little puppies and barking. You know, it's just, it's so fun. But to your other question about homework, I think it would be really beautiful and also just bring a different texture to your relationships to text three friends. Text or call. I love a call, but text or call or voice note, three friends, and just tell them, I love that you or I love this aspect of our relationship and why. And, you know, life is moving fast. We're doing the most.

We're checking in when we can. But to have a moment to just really reflect to your friends, like, I just love that when I call you, you can drop everything for five minutes and just give me time in space and it makes me feel just so loved and support and I just I really appreciate that about you. And I just think it like anchors our relationship and brings us back to like, oh yeah, that those are like the cords that hold us down, you know? It's not like it's not the big trips and the this and that, although those things are really important too. It's like, no, this aspect of who you are, I love and how you show up to our friendship. I love that so much. I'm going to do that after we finish It's recording.

Guys, tell me about your book and your podcast and anything else that you want to spotlight. Our book is out now. It's called Almost 30. It's a definitive guide to a life you love for the next decade and beyond. It's a mouthful of a subtitle, but we love it. No, we're so proud. I mean, this is 10 years in the making. You know, we've always had a book on our heart, but it's never quite been the right

timing until now. And I think we had to live a lot of life and go through so much of what we talked about today, whether in friendship, our romantic relationships, the healing that we've done and continued to do. This is the guy that we wish we had when we were in our late 20s. It is such a important transformational time that not a lot of people are prepared for. And when they're going through it, they feel like their life is falling apart. It can feel like the quarter life existential crisis, you know. And to know that it's actually this incredible opportunity to become more of who you're meant to be

and really set the foundation and the real. relationship with change for the rest of your life, if I would have known that, I mean, I would have been like, all right, bring it on. Let's go, you know? And so we hope to be kind of like that big sister voice. We brought in experts from the podcast that we've had over the years. It's like a who's who of experts in this book. If you can think of an expert, they're in there. And it's something we're so proud of because we know that our life has been changed when we're able to approach these seasons that are full of unknowns and so much change with a lot more love, excitement, adventure. I mean, it's changed everything. We're able to now, like, create a life that we

really, really love. Yeah. And I think it's for anyone that's not just almost 30. You know, we were reading the audiobook in New York and I was still getting so much from it and I still feel like I was struggling with some of the things in it, you know, like burnout or so it has really vulnerable stories from Lindsay and I that we've never shared on the show, and then practical exercises and resources, and then the past the mics, which are like the quotes and the sections from some of our podcast guests over the years because they've just changed our life. So you can get it wherever you get books, Amazon, Barnes & Noble Target. And then almost 30 is the podcast and we'll have your episode out too. So if people want to listen to that one, definitely, it's going to be amazing.

And we're just, you know, grateful to have the opportunity to connect with your audience. Yeah, I will say I'm almost 40 and I got a lot out of the book. And to your point, I do think there's so many books for like new grads and stuff like that. And people aren't addressing that like life is not sorted after you graduate from college. Not at all. I mean, the average age of marriage is 29.5 now. Kids is 28.5. You have college debt.

You're changing relationships. Your prefrontal cortex comes online at 26, which means your whole personality changes. Like it's such an important portal that, you know, changed our lives. And we were at rock bottom when we were in it. So to support people and going. from feeling lost to a life that they love is really just like the goal. And normalizing the messiness, which I think is just so important. Well, thank you guys so much.

It's just such a lovely conversation. Thank you. You're the best. We appreciate you. Bye. Bye. There are two things that you can do right now that make a huge difference in us being able to continue to make this show for you and they are both free.

First, follow the podcast on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you're watching. Even if you think you're following, check that button on the podcast homepage, the one that lists all of the episodes. Make sure it says following. Next, number two, send a link to this episode to one person whom you think would benefit from it. Maybe somebody that you want to talk about doing a system update with or you want to have a deep, real, vulnerable conversation with. Send them this episode. It might make a huge difference in your friendship.

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a page turner. And then last week I shared my top sun protection picks, and you can find all of that. It's completely exclusive content at lizmoody.substack.com. Okay, I love you. I hope this episode made you feel seen and heard and less alone. And I will see you on the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional.