The Liz Moody Podcast - The Pros & Cons of Having Kids

Episode Date: July 8, 2020

I am SO excited to share today’s episode, which is all about the pros and cons of having kids. It came out of an Instagram Q&A where someone asked what Zack and I were doing, and I said we were undecided and then asked people how they decided—and the responses were so fascinating, I knew I had to make it into a podcast. This episode features: Best-selling author Meghan Daum on the choice to remain childfree Ambitious Kitchen’s Monique Volz on birth, and how being a new mom impacts marriage Sophie Jaffe on an unexpected struggle of pregnancy and healing her own childhood through her parenting Plus, dozens of anonymous comments from listeners about the true realities of parenting AND being childfree I know that i can’t produce a comprehensive episode about a topic this deep and important—as Meghan Daum said in our interview, it’s perhaps the most existential decision we face—but I do think there’s a lot of food for thought here, and a lot for you to discuss with friends, family members, and partners. As I often say, I think a huge part of wellness is being as happy and healthy in all parts of your life, and having kids is a huge part of that, so I can’t wait to have this discussion with you. I can’t wait to hear what your feedback on this episode! Screenshot and tag me—i’m @lizmoody— and my guests—@meghan_daum, @ambitiouskitchen, and @sophie.jaffe and shares your thoughts, feelings, and reactions. PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy on Amazon or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I am your host, Liz Moody, and I am a longtime journalist and cookbook author, and I am so excited to share today's episode, which is all about the pros and cons of having kids. It came out of an Instagram Q&A where someone asked what Zach and I were doing, and I said that we were undecided and then asked other people how they decided, and the responses were so fascinating that I knew I had to make it into a podcast episode. So I have three amazing guests on this episode. I have Megan Down, who is one of my all-time favorite authors.

Seriously, I've read her book The Unspeakable like 20 times. So if I sound like I'm fan-girling in our interview, that's why I have the lovely, lovely Monique Foles from Ambitious Kitchen. And then I have Sophie Jaffe, who is a yogi, a podcast host, and an influencer who basically talks everyone I know into having children. They all have super different perspectives on having kids, and I think you'll be fascinated by what they have to say. But I also asked you guys on Instagram to share your thoughts on having kids, whether you regretted it, how it impacted your relationship with yourself and partner, what surprised you, what you loved, what was hard for you.

I also asked my childless listeners to share how you felt about that choice or lack thereof if it was dictated by life circumstances and how not having kids has impacted your life. I'll be reading your answers aloud throughout the episode. So you'll get a mix of interviews and deeply intimate anonymous stories. I know that I cannot produce a comprehensive episode about a topic that is this deep and important. As Megan Down said in our interview, it's perhaps the most existential decision that we face. But I do think there is a lot of food for thought here. There's a lot for you to discuss with friends, with family members, with partners.

And as I often say, I think a huge part of wellness is being as how, happy and healthy in all parts of your life as possible, and having kids is a huge part of that. So I cannot wait to have this discussion with you. I always say that I would love to hear your thoughts on episodes as you're listening, but this is such an intense topic, so I really cannot wait to hear them on this one. So screenshot and tag me. I'm at Liz Moody and my guest at Megan with an H underscore down at Ambitious Kitchen and at Sophie.jaffy and write your thoughts, your feelings, your reactions,

I cannot wait to continue this conversation, and there is definitely a lot to unpack, so also let me know if you would like a part two. Enjoy this episode on the pros and cons of having kids. From Anonymous, I never dreamed of being a mom, but I can honestly say that it's the best thing that has ever happened to me. It's kind of like you don't know what you don't know, right? Like if I never had kids, I'm not sure I would have missed it, but now that I have them, I can't imagine life without it. I tell all my friends if I was single and knew what I know now about having a family, I'd honestly get a sperm donor and do it on my own. But I will say that it is shocking how much it changes your life.

My husband and I almost divorced after our first, like he actually moved out for three months. It really brought a bunch of childhood trauma forth for him that he wasn't ready to deal with even with marriage counseling. It's crazy looking back at that time. Learning new ways to communicate and being honest about the baggage we came into this relationship with has taken time, but looking back now, it makes me so, so sad

that we almost walked away from our marriage because it's so good now. I just think marriage counseling should be mandatory for everyone, but especially before you start a family. From Anonymous, there are definitely two sides to motherhood. On one side, I love my son more than I could ever imagine loving someone.

Seeing the world through his eyes is amazing. Watching him explore the world brings me so much happiness. He's naive and precocious at the same time. It's fascinating to watch and to know we created this little person. But on the other side, I feel like I lost so much of myself. I lost my freedom. I lost my body. I lost the ability to be a free spirit. My son is almost five and I feel like I'm just now starting to understand who I am as a parent. I don't know if it's this way because I had

him very late in life at age 35. It was just so used to my previous life, but it was hard, very hard. It took me a long time to not parent my husband. It's hard to be this parent to a child all day. I'm a stay-at-home mother and then turn off that behavior when my husband comes home. So it took a lot of effort and self-awareness to adjust to that behavior. I wouldn't trade my son for the world, but due to my struggles, I was very open with my husband about my mental place during all of it. We decided that having another child probably wasn't best for me, my son, or our relationship. From Anonymous, looking back, if I had known more of the hardships that comes to everyone

involved, I wouldn't have done it. I love them now because I can't think what life would have been like without them. I just think my husband and I wouldn't have had 75% of the fights we've had. I just recently spent three weeks without them, and it was really amazing. From Anonymous, I think if you have a good marriage, children bring out the best in it. I think if your marriage is weaker and healthy, it brings out the worst. I separated with my husband when my daughter was six months old. I remember saying to myself, well, if I feel like I'm doing this alone, I might as well.

I moved his step out the next day. It really magnifies the issues. I also wanted a lot of other things for her that he didn't want. Travel, culture, good schools. He just wasn't as willing to work hard like me and give to her. Was it tough? Yes. but I would do it again in a second.

You can't be selfish and have kids. It doesn't work. You have to be willing to be spit up on, sulked at, and lots of other things. But I would do it all again. My daughter is the best thing that ever happened to me. Hi, Megan. Then welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for joining me. Great to be with you, Liz. Thanks for having me. It's really like I was telling you before we got on the phone, but I'm such a fan of your work. If anybody hasn't read your many books, you just have this way of articulating things that one, I don't know if I've articulated to myself. I don't know if I'm allowed to articulate.

And it's very permission-giving. And I've been a fan of your work for a long time. So this is a real joy for me. But for people who are maybe less familiar with you, could you just give us a little bit of brief background? Yes. So I'm Megan Down. I'm an author, columnist, teacher, lots of things. I've published six books. The most recent is called The Problem with everything. It has to do with this sort of new culture war climate that we're in, which we're not really talking about today. But yeah, it was a columnist for the Los Angeles Times for over a decade. I've written for lots of magazines from the New Yorker to Vogue to the Atlantic. I'm an adjunct professor at Columbia University. I also teach private writing workshops.

So do all sorts of things, just kind of been kicking around as a writer for 25 years? Well, the book that we are going to talk about today, and more so your life and your decisions, I think you've explored it in a lot of different works that you've done, is the decision whether or not to have children. And I think you're a really interesting person to talk to because you can come at it from your personal perspective, but you can also come at it from what is society telling us. And then also you edited an anthology about a bunch of women who decided not to have children. So you can speak for them as well in some ways. So maybe let's start with the anthology and we'll start broad and then get

into you. What did you, what surprised you in interviewing these different women who had made the decision concretely not to have children? Well, so the anthology is called selfish, shallow and self-absorbed. 16 writers on the decision not to have kids. Obviously the title is ironic. They're actually essays written by people talking about this decision. So I've certainly interviewed. a lot of people over the years and had conversations with women and men about this issue. But the book is 16 different essays written by people talking about their decision. There are 13 women and three men. And so I guess what I learned really is that there's just no one path into this.

Everyone sort of has their own reasons for choosing not to have children. Some of the people in the book were very clear about it. They knew from the time they were children themselves that they didn't want to be parents. Other people really struggled with it. I think, you know, as you mentioned, there's a lot of pressure. It is the default setting. You know, most people do want children and most people have them. And so my thinking around all of this and the reason that I did the anthology was that I wanted to reframe the conversation.

I was always frustrated because it seems like forever, you know, people who have chosen not to have children end up sort of resorting to really glib answers. You know, people will say, well, what's wrong with you? Why didn't you have kids? And, you know, the childless person will say, well, it's because I'd rather buy expensive shoes. Or my child is that yacht, you know, that boat sitting in my driveway. Or my child has four legs and drinks out of a bowl on the floor, you know. And it's, it's funny. but I really felt like there was some irony to the fact that it was so taboo to say you didn't

want children that it was actually more socially acceptable to just say you were a selfish and sort of materialistic person than to just say, hey, this wasn't for me. So I wanted to find ways to talk about this in terms that went well beyond just these sort of glib retorts and really got at the, you know, existential. This is, there is nothing more existential. There's nothing sort of more fundamental than, than this conversation and this decision. And I think it needs to be talked about in those terms. And did you find that people usually had a reason or is it more knowing in your gut and soul that that's not right for you in the same way that people who want to be parents often just know? Well, I think knowing.

in your gut is a reason. Some people talked about how they had really difficult childhoods themselves. Either they had parents who were abusive in some cases, neglectful, and there was just a lot of struggle. And so they decided either they didn't want to take the risk of repeating some of those patterns or there was just such a negative connotation around childhood that they didn't want to have children. But I want to be careful when we talk that way because the fact is people with difficult childhoods decide all the time that they do want to have children. You know, it's just as common, if not more so, a response to having a difficult upbringing to say, you know, I want to try to correct this. I want to do better than my parents.

And that's a legitimate, totally legitimate response. It's the more common response. So, but yeah, to answer your question, some people were very clear about that. Some people talked about how they had sort of history of mental illness in the family or, you know, sort of genetic predispositions that they didn't want to pass down. Some people talked about issues around climate, that sort of thing. It's funny, for a long time, I used to say, you know, people who say that they're not having children because of climate change reasons or environmental reasons are lying. Like, I've never met somebody who really, really, really wanted to have a child,

but just didn't do it for the sake of the environment. I think the conversation around climate change is so all-encompassing now that maybe those people exist, but certainly like 10, 15 years ago, I didn't. That always seemed to me like a cop-out. And again, it speaks to just how difficult it is to say, this isn't for me. And in my case, I really just always knew deep down that I didn't want to have children, but I kind of was like waiting, waiting to be convinced otherwise. Like everyone can't. kept saying, well, you'll change your mind. And I was sort of waiting to change my mind. And it just never happened. There's a lot of like the, if you'll know when you know and you'll know when the time is

right. And there's a lot of the idea that there is some sort of internal momentum or internal force that will push you in a direction versus it being this thought through intellectual decision. And I find that really interesting. And even you saying I've known deep down. I mean, do you do you think that there's some sort of maternal or paternal wiring that we are born with on some level, or do you think that it's society that pushes us one way or another? Well, I think we are born that way. I think all species are. I mean, if it were not, if it were purely a social construct, there would be far fewer people on the planet. I mean, that's just a, we have a biological imperative to reproduce. But I do think that there are outlier.

And, you know, again, one of the ways that I wanted to reframe the conversation was to, you know, talk about how this is something that most people want to do, but there are a significant number of outliers who just don't want to do it for any, for whatever reason. And that doesn't make us outsiders. There was a real defensiveness, I think, around people who had made this choice. And that's, and I think that comes from sort of, you know, when you're talking about sort of, you know, evolutionary determinism and biology, you know, we talk about the and then we talk about outliers and we seem to sort of automatically assume that we're marginalizing those outliers. But being an outlier is not the same as being an outsider. It's just a sort of normal variant. So, but yeah, I do, look, I think most people do want to have kids. I know a whole lot of people who said that they never wanted kids and they swore it off and then they ended up doing it anyway and they were grateful they did. But there are more and more of us who are just admitting, I could use that word, we're proudly stating that it's just not, it's just not for us. And there's all sorts of reasons for it. There's not, like I said, there's not any, any one reason. So I guess, you know, in my case,

I just, I didn't like being a child. I didn't really like children when I was a child. And so it's just, I love being an adult and I would rather be around adults. And frankly, I think that children need to be in communities where there are adults around them that are not parents. I think it's really good for society, frankly, for there to be responsible, compassionate adults who don't have kids. Well, I even think that on a more intimate level, my husband and I haven't decided whether we're having kids yet, hence this entire episode of the podcast. But if we did, I would want to raise them in sort of like a communal environment where they have,

you know, aunties. I'm putting in quotes because not necessarily biologically related, but people. who are raising them very intimately who aren't me and my husband. And I think that one of the things that scares me about having kids is we used to have more of that village structure to raise the children. And now you're sort of doing it on your own with maybe some babysitters or family around. But that's the anomaly and the exception. Yeah. It's really, really hard to raise kids. I think that we probably, it's probably never been a harder time to be a parent, probably in the history of civilization.

In most areas of life, it's never been an easier time. I mean, you know, despite all the problems that we have at the moment, that we have ditch washers and washing machines. Yeah, the fact is that people are, are not dying, you know, in childbirth. You know, you don't have six kids and expect to lose two of them. we just, we are much, we have much cushier lives than at any other time, you know, in the history of, in the history of human existence. And it doesn't always feel that way. But I do think that when it comes to, especially mothers, raising children and the expectations around that in the West, it's just, it's impossible. I mean, it is by definition impossible, because you're not supposed to rely.

on your own parents. If you're a parent, you're not supposed to pay a bunch of nannies or babysitters, you know, and it's almost like everything, but, you know, around the clock, you know, stimulation, education, nurturing, anything short of that is considered a failure. You know, I don't think it's any accident that, you know, it was when women entered the workforce in the middle and upper middle classes in the in the 70s and 80s that suddenly the job of mothering got you know ratcheted up to this professional occupation like you know it wasn't so long ago that in the 70s you had four kids they just you know played out in the street until the end of the day and then

and that was it so I do think that there was a kind of subconscious you know punishment of women who made the decision to go into work it said well not not so fast you're not going to get away with that. We're going to raise the bar in terms of what it means to be a responsible mother. And so, yeah, to your question, that would be much less of a factor if there were extended families were more than norm. A lot of people, I asked on my Instagram if people had had children and if they had it and what their feelings about it were generally.

And a lot of people, because I think this was anonymous, said that they had children because is they were afraid of being lonely as they got older. And I'm curious if that's a fear of yours and if there's any steps you've taken to sort of safeguard that for yourself. I'm not afraid of being lonely because I like being alone. I certainly think about, you know, what's going to happen when I'm old or when I die. My brother actually does not have kids either. There's just two of us and neither of us wanted kids.

Does say something about our upbringing. You know, I will be the first to tell you that part of the reason I don't want kids was because of the way I was raised. I wasn't raised in any particularly cruel or unfair or aberrant way. It's just that the dynamics of our family were such that whatever, we just didn't want to, we didn't want to be parents. And I think that, you know, certainly my mother would have been sad about that. So, but yeah, I'm not going to have nieces and nephews. And so I definitely am mindful of sort of making arrangements. I actually made a will.

You know, I'm only, when I was 49, I guess when I was 48, my father died and I was like, oh my gosh, I need to like make a will and kind of figure out who to leave stuff to. And it was weird because I didn't have anybody to leave stuff to. So some wildlife charities are going to be pleasantly surprised when I die. If there's any money left, which is this rate, probably won't be. But, but yeah, I definitely think about that. at the other hand, I am so honestly, like, I love not having kids. I would be so much lonelier and I think sort of angrier and less at peace with myself if I had children than I am right now.

So why do you think you would be lonelier if you had children? I think I would feel sort of alienated from my authentic self. And again, this is total speculation. I could be 100% wrong. don't know. By definition, I can't answer that question because I don't have kids. But based on what I know of myself, I can tell you there's not a day of my life that goes by that I am not grateful that I don't have kids. I used to say like, you know, oh, nobody ever said that, you know, I wake up in the morning or I shouldn't say, people say, no one ever said they wake up in the morning and say, thank God I don't have kids. I actually do. I actually wake up in the morning and think, oh, how lucky I am. Like, how lucky.

that I live in a time and a place where this was an option. And how lucky am I that I didn't end up walking into something that that wasn't right for me? That's not to say I would have regretted it, but I think it would have been not right for me. It's interesting to me what you said, though, that the way that you were raised and the way that your brother was raised clearly did impact both of your decisions on whether to have children. And it made me immediately wonder if maybe some people are afraid to not want children because it means that they're damaged in some way or they had they don't want the things that you're supposed to want that if you had a healthy happy childhood maybe you would want do you think that that's true yes i think that's very well put the way you just

put that but i would then say okay well given the hand that you were dealt how can you play it the best you can i really don't see that there's an advantage like oh i grew up in this way. There's all these things I don't want. I'm unusual in these ways because of the way I was raised. And so I'm going to fight all those things. And I'm going to try to like, you know, put myself, you know, I'm like a square peg. I'm going to shoehorn into a round hole. Like that doesn't help anybody. And the last thing, the last, the most damage that would do would be to your potential kids. You know, like I just don't, it's so unfair to have a child because you want to prove something to yourself or you want to prove something to the world.

I mean, people have children for all sorts of reasons. But, you know, to me, I just, it's sort of like when people say, well, I want to have somebody to take care of me when I'm old. That's a terrible reason to have a child. Does have a child because you are, you know, grooming them to be a nurse when you're, when you're old? I mean, obviously, that's reductive, you know, all sorts of reasons. But I just, I think that people should really think about this.

much harder. You know, one of the big things I stress, and I've talked about this a lot when talking about the book, is that, you know, the conventional wisdom is that people who choose not to have children are somehow disrespecting parents or judging parents or that parents and non-parents are somehow enemies or adversaries in some ways. And the way I see it, if you think really hard about whether or not it's the right thing for you to be a parent. And you choose not to because you realize what a big responsibility it is and you don't want to take it on. Me, that is paying the ultimate respect to parents. That's saying your job is so important and so difficult that it should only be done by people who are really prepared to do that and who want to do it. And so it's actually,

to me the ultimate tribute to parents to really thoughtfully decide and say this isn't for me. And so many people have a hard time getting their minds around that. Just the sort of default setting has been, well, it's just selfish. People don't have children are selfish. Everyone's selfish. There's lots of ways to be selfish. So I would say be selfish in a way that inflicts the least damage onto innocence. is what about the people who are like trying to be thoughtful like me?

I feel like I think about it all the time and I just truly can't tell which decision I will regret the least later. Is there anything from editing your anthology or from your own conversations that you would say to somebody like that? I think that, you know, I know a lot of people who've been in your shoes and I would say at least, half of them, maybe more than half, ended up having children. And they really like it. Now, there were several people when I was, when I was recruiting people to be in the anthology, it was a strange process because I had to go find writers to be in this book and I would have to sort of email people and say, oh, you know, I heard you don't have kids. Like, these were people I didn't know personally and I could tell that they didn't have kids, but I wasn't sure why.

and there were a couple of writers in there who had written things in the past about how they were never having kids and here's why and full stop, this is my decision. And I wrote to them and they would sort of say, oh, well, actually, no, I do have a child now. Like, you know, I wrote this whole screen about how I was never doing it and actually, you know, my daughter just turned two, you know, that kind of thing. and they have since had, say, another child. So I don't think there's any evidence that that was the wrong decision for them. I kind of feel like if there's a way to access your gut, you can tell what's in there. If it's something that you're just afraid to admit to yourself or you're afraid to say out loud that you really, really know deep down what's in there, I think that's it.

and I have to say, again, most people end up doing it because most people have children. I think it's fewer and fewer, but you're still going to be, you're still going to be the norm if you do it. Now, there might be a part of you that on some level just doesn't want to be the norm. Like, you do want to have a child, but you don't want to be like a, you know, a basic about it or something. No, I think the interesting thing for me is that the accessing my gut has always been a little bit tricky because I have struggled with anxiety for pretty much my entire life. And I think that I don't know whether I'm afraid to have a kid and whether that's what my gut is telling me. And it's just a fear I should work through or whether that's my gut being like maybe you don't.

You know what I mean? It's harder to trust your gut when your gut compass is out of whack because you have anxiety. about a number of things that other people wouldn't, you know? Right, right. I mean, maybe ask yourself, okay, how would you feel if the decision was just made for you? Like, what if tomorrow you went to the doctor and they said, oh, sorry, you're infertile? We can tell right now it's never going to happen for you. Would you be relieved?

Would you be disappointed? Would you be devastated? Would you be surprised that you're at the way you feel? You know. Yeah, it's interesting. I think as a thought experiment, that might be helpful. Yeah, that's a really useful. I think people just don't, they want, you know, I think we all as humans, and I'm

certainly guilty of this, we want somebody to decide for us. We don't want to be accountable for our decisions. That's why a lot of people get pregnant accidentally on purpose, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's really interesting. That's a really interesting thought experiment.

I love that. All right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me really briefly. I think it's such an interesting conversation and there's clearly a lot to think on that you just said. Well, good luck to you with your decision or your non-decision. My accident. Let's see. I'm glad you're thinking about it though because really the key is to just be thoughtful. That seems like one of your, would you say that's one of your key takeaways is just that either way you go do it with a significant amount of intention?

Well, people who don't, people who choose not to have children are usually have thought about it way more than people who do have them just because it's, it's not the norm. They're bucking the norm. Yeah. Yeah. I would just say, you know, if whatever, you know, the process is, is agonizing and allow yourself to agonize. And also, look, if I, if you choose not to do it, there's still a grieving process. I mean, there was a little grieving process for me, even though it was a hundred. 100% the right choice. And I think you have to allow yourself that. And if you deny that, then you haven't actually done all the thinking. So just allow yourself the full range of responses. A grieving of the self that you would never be, the life you would never have.

Yeah. Yeah. Kind of thing. I mean, I don't, again, there's not a molecule in my body that regrets it, but it's certainly like there are experiences that I will never have. There's a gigantic slice of the human experience that I will never have. And so that is something to mourn, even though I have other experiences and I don't want that experience, but it is what it is. It's limiting. It is self-limiting. But that's okay.

That's okay. Everyone's limited in some way. Yeah, that's definitely one of my, can we touch on that just super briefly? I'd say my biggest fear if I had to articulate it with not having kids is that whenever somebody shares their child, like they do a child announcement, they're like, it's a level of love I have never felt before. It's a different kind of love. And as an experientially focused person, the idea of literally missing out on a whole type of

love is devastating to me. Do you have, do you feel like you've missed out on a literal type of love that exists? Um, yes. I don't think they're wrong about that. But I have also missed out on, uh, an incredible amount of self doubt and self-loathing, um, and regret and feeling of not being my authentic self that I would have had that would have come along with. that love. Like, it's not just like you get the love and that's it. And it doesn't, it's unencumbered love. It doesn't come with everything else. It comes with it. No, there's no such thing as unconditional love. I mean, also, look, people speak in platitudes all the time. I'm not saying that these women don't feel this way when they have babies. But, you know, I think that our vocabulary,

especially on social media is such that there are ways of expressing things. You know, people who are honest will say, you know, I love, I love this thing more than I can imagine. And also, I feel that my life is over. I've had people say that to me all the time. New mothers, friends of mine say that to me all the time. They're not going to say it on Facebook. So I would just say like, you know, keep in mind the Facebook factor, the Instagram factor. They're not, they're saying things that they're not saying in private conversation with you. For sure. For sure. Well, thank you so much for taking to the taking the time to chat with me, Megan. I really appreciate it. From Anonymous. I have a two and a half year old boy. I love him more than anything, but mentally,

it's nearly finished me off. I had pre and postnatal depression and anxiety with very dark suicidal thought. I used to be a pretty laid back person, but now I live on my nerves and find the level of responsibility and love for him almost too much. Since having a breakdown, it's now improved my relationship with my husband, who is an amazing father. I'm getting better, but feel incredibly trapped in my life, whereas I used to be free. I feel pity when people tell me they're pregnant, but I don't share these feelings with them, obviously. The only thing I tell people if they say they're unsure whether to have children is not to do it.

Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut and just talk to my counselor. From Anonymous, I am newly pregnant nine weeks, and I have a history of anorexia. Being in quarantine and feeling out of control, my issues with food were really starting to resurface. And I got pregnant by surprise and something shifted. It sounds strange to say this out loud, but getting pregnant seemed to heal my relationship with food in my body almost instantly. Being pregnant is hard, especially in the first trimester, and it's given me this level of respect and pure amazement that after all I put my body through, it can still give, grow, and nurture a growing life. Food is now just food. I enjoy it and I use it for fuel, but there is no obsession.

It almost instantly bettered my relationship with myself. From Anonymous, I have a toddler and I absolutely adore her. but it is so much harder than people describe it. They always just talk about how expensive kids are, but the day-to-day is what's really hard for me. I never know what's going to happen moment to moment, or if she will sleep well at night. Most of your life becomes ruled by your child's needs and emotions.

I have to work very hard to make time for myself. I love her more than life itself, so I would do it again, but I would recommend people travel and do a ton of stuff that they want to do before having kids. I also feel like too many people are having kids because they think that's what they're supposed to do, and then the family ends up being miserable. I was a first grade teacher for six years, so I saw this all the time.

I think if someone is on the fence about having kids, they probably shouldn't because it's a lifelong, non-stop commitment. From Anonymous, I chose not to have kids early on in life. I saw my mom raise three children largely by herself. She did it beautifully, the best she could, and she is and was the best mother who loved her role as a mother. But in order to raise us, she had to put her entire identity into raising us. Before having us, she was a fashion designer who had dreams of having her own line.

But once she had us, she trained. transition to staying home with us so that my dad could work. To this day, the biggest piece of her identity is wrapped around being a mother. Now that we've all moved out of the home and are grown, it's really hard on her, and I can see her struggling to figure out who she is and what she wants independently from her children. I didn't want that life for myself. I want to live my life and invest in myself and spend my life growing and exploring everything I've ever wanted to. Ever since I started sharing this thought with my friends and family, they always said, you'll change your mind when you meet the right person. But when I did meet my husband,

a man who also does not want children, my decision still didn't change. I'm a teacher, so I think people are surprised by this choice. I love children. I just don't want to raise any myself. A lot of people have told me that this is a selfish decision. And maybe it is, but it's the one that feels right to me. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. The Healthyer Together podcast is proud to support intentional activism, a new workshop for people sincere about their commitment to being anti-racist. Intentional activism was created by the amazing Iverly Brooks, whom you might remember as my guest from the last episode of this podcast.

I know you guys loved that episode. Seriously, your hundreds of messages about it were so, so lovely, which is one of the many reasons I'm so excited to share Iverly's new workshop with you. Iverly is an actress and a mindset mentor for creatives. Her company, Mave Now, focuses on helping female creatives and entrepreneurs create a lifestyle around self-mastery and wellness. Her recent viral video, white women who truly want to help,

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Intentional activism is about changing how we think about ourselves and how we and our racial identity impact everyone around us. Intentional activism is a four-week workshop with guest coaches and speakers, and it is sure to sell out. So snag your spot while you can at Intentionalactivism.com. I'll also share a swipe up link on my Instagram. I'll be doing the workshop as well, and I cannot wait to join you on this journey. Again, that's intentional activism.com. Now, let's get back to the episode. All right, Monique, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be back. Yeah, the Chicago episode was a ton of fun. You were one of my guests at my live Chicago panel, which was so much fun. And I will also need to have you back to, like, do your whole story. But I'm so interested in your parenting journey because you're a new mama and you're just like experiencing this all very fresh right now.

And also your birth story was one of the most fascinating things I feel like I've ever read. I like clicked it immediately when you posted it. But before we get into that, can you just tell anybody who's not familiar who you are and what you do. Yeah. So my name is Monique and I'm the founder of Ambitious Kitchen. Ambitious Kitchen is a food and wellness website. I guess we don't say blog really anymore. But I have been doing it since 2011 and just love creating healthier recipes, really diving into more healthier comfort foods and then, you know, global cuisine. But I also own Ambitious Home, which is a vintage rug shop and I run that with my husband and just had a baby in January. So he's going on almost five months, I guess.

That's crazy. But yeah, we live in Chicago. That's sort of where I am at, who I am. Love it. Did you always know that you wanted to have kids? Yes, always, always knew it. I, you know, worked at a daycare in high school. I nannied all throughout college. I think it was just something that I always knew was in the future for me. So it was never like a question of if. Then how did you decide when? It's so funny. Tony and I actually said that we would be totally fine having kids before we were even married.

I mean, it's not like we were actively trying for that. But if we were just like, if it happens, it happens because I was never on birth control. And so, hey, it was just like, okay, if this is. what's in the cards for us, then that's totally fine. Like how long had you been dating when you were like, we could have a baby? It's totally fine. Like a week? No, no, I think it was like... We love each other. I think it was like three years, two and a half, three years. It was definitely before we were engaged. But yeah, we just, we always knew that we both wanted to have kids. And so, you know, it happened for us about a year and a half after we had gotten married. And it took us quite a while to

actually get pregnant. But, you know, I think we just knew it was something we always wanted to do together. And what surprised you about pregnancy? Everything. Everything surprised me about pregnancy. I think there was so much that just wasn't talked about openly and that was a little bit shocking for me, especially going through like the birthing process. So many things that you see in the movies that actually don't, don't happen the way, you know, they're played out. Like, you know, your water usually doesn't break first. I don't know. So many, I guess, misconceptions about birth in general. And I think what really helped me was working with a doula to kind of truly understand the process in my body more so than anything. It's funny how, you know, I've been a

woman all my life, but I really didn't, I didn't know a lot of things about the female body. What didn't you know about your body? Like, what surprised you about your body? You know, for me, I think that exercise was huge for me. I really, really didn't know if what you could and couldn't do during pregnancy for exercise. And so working my body in that way was so helpful for me to be able to have a natural unmedicated vaginal birth. And, you know, I didn't know that traditionally a women's water does not break first when you go into labor. We see that a lot in the movies. That's not really the case. You actually have contractions. I didn't know about certain things you couldn't eat. That was interesting to me, like deli meat for one. How did you navigate?

Because I feel like there is, there's so many conflicting thoughts. So, you know, there's like people who are like, kombucha's fine. People who are like kombucha's not fine. Coffee, wine, whatever. How do you navigate what to trust and what not to trust? Personally, I just did what I felt was right for me. And I drank kombucha. I actually ate turkey sandwiches every now and then.

I think it's all about weighing the risk factors for some of those things and deciding what you're personally really comfortable with because people will tell you not to pick up a pair of weights. People will tell you not to exercise. They'll tell you not to do all of these things. And it's actually really interesting because the research on this is very, very old. I mean, it's more than 25 years old on what these doctors are typically telling women on what they shouldn't do during pregnancy. So, and I found that out through just working with a doula and actually listening to evidence-based birth facts. It's a really interesting concept. There's somebody out there and she is strictly dedicated to providing resources for women. It's all on the evidence and she weighs the pros and cons.

And you can look her up on Instagram. It's evidence based birth or EB birth, I think. And yeah, she was just incredible for me to kind of listen to her talk about, you know, are women actually getting sick from eating these things or what happens during birth and the befores and after? So that was really great. Did you like your body when you were pregnant? Personally, it was really hard for me in the, I think, first and second trimesters because I, you know, I was somebody that went through an eating disorder probably about five, six years ago. And so I wasn't used to gaining weight. That felt a little bit uncomfortable for me at first. And even though I, you know, was providing for somebody else and growing a baby, it was still very difficult because I was seeing my body

changed before my eyes and it happening so quickly. So that was incredibly hard. But I think once I got to my second trimester and I was just reading all of these books and talking to a lot of other moms and having that support, I felt, I felt okay with it. And coming out of pregnancy and birth now. I think my perspective towards my body has really, really shifted. I sort of had thought I was over that phase of my life, but having it, you know, stretch and grow a human really showed me kind of what it was capable of. And I think I'm really proud of myself for being able to kind of not dwell on it changing so rapidly and quickly and rather just focusing on like the baby that I have now because he's so wonderful and so worth it.

How did being pregnant affect your relationship with Tony? It was so good for us. I can't even, I can't even really explain it. But I think that we just went through, I don't know, the experience together and going to the birthing classes and me being uncomfortable and me crying and me, you know, feeling weird about my body and all of these things, we just sort of had this deeper connection with one another. I would say like it really brought our relationship closer than we've ever been and better. And I think like a part of it was I really, really needed him. I needed his support in ways that I typically didn't rely on him. So, yeah, it shifted. I think just, I'm very independent. So usually I'm like, okay, I've got this. Like I don't really need anybody. Even though we're married, It's just I really needed his support and I needed him to be confident for me in the ways that I couldn't.

And so relying on him to take care of me and kind of being a little bit more vulnerable in our relationship, I think helped in the long run. Are you not resentful at all though? Like I feel like if I'm pregnant and uncomfortable and working through body issues and afraid of the fact that a baby is going to come out of my vagina soon, it would be hard for me to be like, oh, good job. you're like, you know, giving me compliments and holding space for me. I'm like, well, I'm doing the hard shit. And I want to talk about that more with the actual birth too, because people are always like, and you said in your post, like, it was so great. He was so necessary being by my side. I'm like, well, yeah, but you're pushing the baby out of your vagina. Like, yeah. I mean, absolutely. I think there's always going to be that little bit of resentment because you're totally right. I mean, as women,

we kind of do have to do most of the grunt work. You know, we have to have to have. the baby, push the baby on for vaginas, or have a C-section rena C-acupy from that. The post-birth recovery is not wonderful. And they're kind of just sitting there being like, you know, you're doing great. And it's all about the words that they can provide. It's not necessarily any of the hard work that they can do. But I think having that support partner is just emotionally so incredibly important to be able to rely on.

because honestly, like, I couldn't have done it without him. And I still couldn't do this whole parenting thing without him. Okay, can we talk about birth for a second? Because I have to say I was scared of it before I read your post and I was perhaps more scared after. So can you just sort of, I don't, people can go to your website, ambitious kitchen.com and read your birth story if they want the full thing. But maybe just give us a little bit of what you were thinking going into it if you were nervous before what your mindset was. Yeah, it was insane. And I was really traumatized after the birth that I had with Sydney. But basically, I prepared for a good, I think the first three months, I was really, really scared of giving birth. Like, had no idea what went into it. But that's why I like hired a doula, did a lot of research. And that helped me feel really confident. That being said, I was so looking forward to like having my. birthing process start at home and then go to the hospital.

That's not what happened for me at all. It completely changed. It wasn't in my plan. And that part, and having the potosin, which is essentially a synthetic form of a chemical that your body produces when you have contractions, it was terrible. It was horrific. But at the same time, it really showed me that I could do anything. I could literally do anything.

If I can do that, I can do anything. And I think I needed time to process the birth and be okay with it. And I've kind of said my piece about it and I feel fine about it now. But yeah, it was, it was scary being in it. It was really scary being in it. But, I mean, as soon as he was in my arms, it was like, this is amazing. It was so worth it. Does having a scary birth dissuade you at all from wanting to have, like, are you afraid to do it again?

Are you just like, no, I handled that so I could definitely do it again? That's a great question. I think if you would have asked me like a month or two after giving birth to him, I would have been like I'm really terrified. I'm really scared. But now looking back at it, I totally think like I could do that again. I would do that again because it's such a short amount of time. when you're in it, it's the worst fucking thing ever. But when you're done, I mean, it's so worth it. I can't even explain it. It's just so beautiful. And you're so incredibly proud of yourself in a way that you've

never been before. Interesting. But that being said, I mean, we have epidurals. Epidurals are available. And I think that if you're somebody that wants that, that's totally cool too. And it probably would make the birthing process a lot less scary. Yeah, can I ask, I don't want to get too much into like stats and figures, but like for you intuitively, why did you want to have a natural pain or like an, I don't know all the right word, so I don't want people to come at me because like all bursts are natural or whatever. Why did you want to have an epidural free birth? Yeah.

I think for me it was just my mom didn't have, you know, any sort of medication and she did it. And I think that I really wanted to bring him into this world as naturally as I could. You know, I had read some things about epidural, talk to my doula. And it was just the path that I chose to go. That being said, while I was in, you know, in like my 30th hour of contractions, I was like, why the hell am I doing this? Like, what the fuck am I thinking? And there were so many times that if somebody would have asked me in the delivery room,

if I wanted an epidural, I probably would have said, yes, but because it was in my birth plan and I told them not to ask me, they didn't, thank God. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I just, I think I just didn't want one. And I wanted him to come in this world like all bright-eyed and me too, you know, just realizing everything for the first time. Yeah.

So when he came into, the thing I always hear people say, and I'm always so curious about it, and it's probably the number one reason that I would want to have a kid if I do have a kid is that people say it's literally a different, like, level of love that they've never experienced before. And the idea of, like, living my life and missing out on a level of love is horrifying to me. But I don't know if that's just sort of like what people say on Instagram when they announce their baby. Do you feel like it's literally a different level of love? Or do you just feel like, you know, you love Tony, you love your mom, you love your dad, you love your baby? It's different. It's a different kind of love. I think.

Like the way that I love my husband, Tony, is different than the way I love my son. Interestingly enough, it's just, it is truly so unconditional. Like, he could do anything in the world, and I would still love him. You know, I don't know really how to explain it, but it's so unconditional and so natural. And it doesn't, like, it's not flawed at all. And you're not relying on somebody else to do work. love them for truly who they are, which is sort of different when you're in a relationship because you guys are constantly working and growing and changing together. But I think as your

child gets older, it's just like you love them no matter what their choices are. At least that's how I feel. And so it's just so unconditional. That's interesting. And was that right away? Like he came out of your body and it was like, damn? Yeah. I mean, I think I was like a little bit in shock right away, but pretty much like, yeah, I just, I stared at. at him and I was just like, I love you. And it's so different too, especially as they start getting a little bit older. I mean, granted, my son's only four months, but, you know, his personality is starting to show a little bit. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, I just love you. And I don't have to explain it. It's really cheesy, but just so natural. Do you get how like when parents have kids that murder people and stuff, they still

are like, oh, I love you and I'll go visit you on death row and stuff? Yes. I do. I do. I mean, I would seriously wonder like what, what's wrong with you? Did I do something wrong? But I think, yes, I understand that. That's interesting. Okay. So you have this kid. Were you worried about how you've obviously built this hugely successful career for yourself? Were you worried about how that would play into that? Yes, absolutely. And I really thought it was going to be a lot easier. I don't know why. And maybe it's because I'm sort of the first person out of my really good friends that have. like had a child and I really didn't understand like what goes into it but just his need for constant attention has been a huge shift for me and I think it's also more difficult because I am doing breastfeeding exclusively breastfeeding so he really does need me a lot more I thought that I was going to be back to work like within like two to three months I thought I'd be full time I didn't

really know how, like, if we'd get a nanny or what that would look like, but, you know, it's just that hasn't been the case. And it was so difficult, especially this whole sleep thing and breastfeeding and him just needing me 24-7 because it truly is the only 24-7 job that you will have in your life. I just didn't realize it. So it's been a huge shift for me personally because I am incredibly independent. But I would say that I'm still figuring it out. I don't know what that. work looks like in the future. I'm trying my best and thankfully, like I have a team that helps support me and I did work ahead of time to try and plan some things out. But yeah, it's just, it's different, especially with the pandemic and all of that. So learning as I go. Yeah. I mean,

it's not like you can hire a nanny right now, even if you wanted to. Right. Exactly. Which is tricky. Are you, has it made you reevaluate what your relationship is to your job in the longer term? Does it make you want to re-evaluate your goals and priorities and your dreams for your business or no? Not really. I think I've really had to talk myself down and say like it's okay that you're not working right now. It's okay that you're spending more time at home and like just hanging out with your son because I am totally the type of person that I really crave being independent, and that's still important to me. That is like one of my core values. That is something that sort of defines me and my personality. And I think also like the business that I've

built. So I don't see that shifting at all. I just kind of have to like figure out the puzzle pieces and how to make that happen. And I think especially that's going to be true for me and really tricky as we continue to have more kids. I mean, if we do have more children, that's just something will have to navigate. But, you know, I think a lot of working moms deal with that. And I'm lucky in a sense where I get to like hang out with him at home. I can't imagine going to a nine to five and, you know, having to do that. So kudos to all the mamas out there that do that. And what about your relationship with Tony now that the baby is in the world? I'm curious about a few things specifically. one has his relationship with your body changed at all?

I mean, he says that I look the best that I ever have. He loves it. But he's so sweet. I mean, he loves me at any size. And my body is definitely different. And I feel that. But I'm also like I'm comfortable with it. I'm okay with it.

I've gotten to a place where I'm like, it sort of is what it is. I don't want to like beat myself up because I've been there before. trying to look a certain way because honestly, A, I'm not going anywhere anyway. I don't, I don't really care. And like, B, once you have kids, you're like, what, I mean, sort of what's the point? Because if you do want another kid, you're just going to go through the whole thing again. So, you know, I think for him, he will love me no matter what. And a lot of women, I feel like, don't think that way, or they are trying to look a certain way post-baby for their partners

or maybe for other people. But really, as long as like you're comfortable with how you look, you're comfortable with how you feel, then it shouldn't matter because there's so many other things that are just, I guess, more important to worry about. Well, I also think that this goes for pretty much everything in life, but definitely how we look is we think about it 80 million in times more than anybody else thinks about it. And we think everybody else notices and thinks about it. And like, if you gain or lose, you know, 20 pounds, you're the only one who noticed that usually. Absolutely. And I mean, I think a lot of us are like, oh my gosh, we have, you know, we're holding on to 10 pounds or we have 10 pounds we want to lose. Nobody would even notice if we lost 10 pounds or gained 10 pounds except for us.

Yeah, we would notice like the amount, just the sheer amount of time. you spend thinking about it too. It's like that's time you could have spent thinking about so many other things. Okay, my second question is what about the attention issue? Like, you've made it clear that Cid requires quite a bit of your time and attention. And then you also have your business. Does that leave time for each other? That's a really great question. It did not in the beginning for the first three and a half months, it was so difficult because he was up just as late as we were. He was up in the middle of the night. We didn't have any time to ourselves. Now that we've sleep trained him starting at four months and he goes to bed at like six or seven, now we have our nights back,

which is great. That being said, we still have to go to bed at like nine or nine 30 in order to function. But it is significantly different. And I would say like the first three months, first three to four months with a baby. I've always heard that it's the most difficult because they're figuring out sleep. They don't really sleep that much. So, yeah, that was hard. It was really hard. Did you guys talk about it going in, like things you would do to sort of preserve your connection and your bond amidst your transition to being parents? We didn't. Well, we had talked about like going out, getting a babysitter, like having our parents involved, but that completely shifted for us due to the pandemic. I mean, we haven't had a night. We had one night out right before the pandemic.

And so I think like had this whole thing not happened, we would be going out a lot more. We would, you know, got to eat, probably have a babysitter by now. But it's just, we're kind of just having to lean into the situation and take advantage of what we can get. And that's basically like dinners together at home, which is so nice. Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like it would be both a boon and a job. Like, obviously, it must be hard to not have your families get to spend a lot of time with him and things like that and babysitters and all that. But you're also getting basically 24 hours a day as a little family unit, which is an interesting upside that I think wouldn't happen outside of the pandemic. So it's interesting because I feel like it goes both ways.

Why did you want to have kids? Why did you think it would make your life better? Or did it, did you want the sense of purpose? Did you want the family dynamic? Like when you pictured your life with kids, what was appealing about it? That's a really interesting question because I've never thought about the why. It was just kind of that I think we both knew we wanted it. You know, for me, I grew up in a household that was really divided. My parents divorced when I was really young. I mean, my mom was like a single mother. And I really felt like I didn't have that sense of family that a lot of my friends did growing up. And so I think I really wanted to give that to my children. And if I'm able to, that's wonderful. And so maybe it was a part of me just craving that family unit. I think it's to me experiencing it for the first time because I never, I never really had that. And seeing my husband with his family is, it's so wonderful because they're so close and connected and they talk all the time. And I'm, you know, right now it's just me and my mom.

And so, yeah, I'm sort of experiencing that for the first time too. Yeah, I, that's hugely appealing to me as well. I didn't also come from a family unit whatsoever. But then that plays into this huge fear of like, well, I think my parents also wanted to build a family unit. And then that all fell apart. And I'm like, what if I try to do it and my kid hates me or my kid gets into heroin or me and my husband get divorced? Like there's just so many factors. And I'm I'm nervous that if I tried to create that family dynamic, I would fail at it, especially because I don't come from it.

So I think it's really hard to think about that just because, you know, you know, coming from a dysfunctional family, it's hard to go in and know what's right or wrong, or if you should be doing certain things or how to even navigate, I think, those types of relationships because a lot of us that come from dysfunctional families haven't had the sort of normalcy that comes from those.

So, you know, we can think about the what-ifs all day long and focus on those and second-guess ourselves, but until we're actually in it, we're never going to know. We can't control it. We can't predict what's going to happen. But I think for me, it's just coming from a place of love. And using really my husband's background and has helped to sort of guide my parenting

decisions and coming to it together, there's really no way that we can fail. I don't think. I don't think there's any sort of perfect parenting. It's just really using our best judgment and our best ability to sort of be the best parents we can. So that's where I'm, that's what I'm going to do. Are you, do you have people that you're looking up to is like, this is what, because you said you're relying on your husband, but like, what do mom and dad look like as a team when they're parenting and how does that sort of go? And how do you figure that out or is that intuitive? I think, I mean, for us, it feels a little bit intuitive.

I also think we use his parents as really good role models. They've been married over 30 years and they're such a unit and their complete opposites, which in a way, Tony and I are. So I think we look up to them and also just learning as we go. I mean, I could read all of the parenting books in the world and decide that I'm going to base my decisions off that. But I think it's so much more about our two personalities together and really just how we approach talking to our children, and speaking to them, like our examples in the world is so much more that we could give them than anything else. And really just providing an environment of love and growth and encouragement, that is what we're planning on doing. We really haven't talked about like how we're

going to parent in the future. And I think that sort of comes with the new parenting territory. It's just like you learn as you go and you figure it out along the way. He sounds like amazing, I have to say. He is. He's. It's literally the best. Can you just, just, I don't want to make you like trash, your wonderful partner, but could you just ground it in reality for a second of anything that has been sort of difficult with you guys in your relationship since becoming parents or during the pregnancy process? Oh my God.

I mean, I'm annoyed with him 24-7, but, you know, for us, I think just, I think for me, I got really really frustrated doing the whole breastfeeding thing in the beginning and him not, you know, being able to do anything that was frustrating. But sort of taking on roles and having him be able to rock Sydney in the middle of the night and do those sort of things for me. I mean, it's really hard when you're fed up with parenting. You're frustrated because you haven't had a break. You tend to take it out on your partner. And we had a lot of that in the beginning. a little bit, but we just really had to take a step back and say, okay, like, we've got to be really good to each other.

We've got to sort of figure this out. We're both in high stress situations. We can't leave the house. Like, it is what it is. This is our reality. And yeah, like, we still get annoyed at each other all the time, though. It's like still in a relationship, still married. Right.

And a pandemic on top of that. And a pandemic. Yes, all of that. Um, last question is if somebody was thinking and they're trying to figure out whether they wanted to have kids and they didn't sort of have a gut feeling either way, is there anything that you would tell them that you would want them to know if they're thinking about it? If you are thinking about having kids and you're unsure about it, I, hold on one. You should listen to this baby cry. To my son cry. Um, I think really being grounded in the relationship that you.

you're in is incredibly important. Learning to communicate up front and feeling like you're in a good position before bringing a child into this world is so, so helpful. Because it's really going to test your relationship, not only during pregnancy because you're hormonal, but also after, because you have somebody else that you have to take care of. And that has to be the center of your tension and your relationship is no longer sort of number one. So I think just making sure that you're really grounded in your relationship and that you both want to have kids. Having that conversation ahead of time is so incredibly important and making that decision together and like going through the scary what ifs. Like, you know, what if I feel this way about my body or what if I'm not comfortable

with parenting this way and just sort of having each other's backs in that sense is what I would recommend. But ultimately, I think you have to want, I think you have to want to have children. You have to sort of know and consciously make that decision, at least in my opinion. Yeah, it's hard because for me, it's just like a weighing of which will I regret more later. Like I see the parts that are good and I see the parts that are bad and I don't know which is more, you know? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if anybody ever says like they regret having children So. But that's because you can't say that. Well, but or because it does bring so many wonderful moments and memories into your life.

And it kind of just, I think it helps you grow and become this different person that you never knew was sort of there, at least for me. So yeah, that's true. You can't say that. But maybe it's true. Maybe they never regret it. I don't know. All right. Well, this was so helpful.

and so lovely, and I so appreciate you taking the time to chat with me. Oh, thank you, Liz. I always love chatting with you. You're the best. From Anonymous. As much as I love kids, mental health problems are rampant in my family, and I suffer from panic disorder and depression. After having a child, my sister suffered from anxiety that she'd never experienced before. I just don't think it would be smart for me to have a kid when I struggle to take care of my own health.

It's still something that I think about every day as I'm about to turn 35. I don't want to miss out, but I want to be honest with myself about what I can handle and what I have to give. From Anonymous, I'm an independent person that had a child out of natural instinct after falling in love. Luckily, my mind and body were very young, so physically it wasn't a challenge. Mentally, it was difficult. I knew I wasn't a good enough parent to repeat the process. I had barely enough patience and tolerance for one. After all, we all want to do better at parenting than our parents did.

I believe I have. I don't think parenting is for everyone, and I wish society would stop putting pressure on women to procreate. From Anonymous. I was not prepared for how big of a challenge learning to parent with my partner would be for us. Fighting feelings of resentment as I was up with her at night and he slept soundly so he could go to work, as if parenting a newborn all day wasn't work. Learning how to handle the crying and tantrums in unison as we came from two completely

different upbringings. We definitely questioned our decision to have a baby together many times. Parenting is tough, more than tough, but also the best and most rewarding. thing I've ever done, particularly when she squeezes me when she hugs me or clings to my leg when she's frightened. With all the hard, it's still the best thing I ever did. From Anonymous. It changed my eight-year relationship. My partner changed so much when we had a child. He left when my son was one-year-old, saying that family life wasn't for him. I was left raising a child on my own. We have been separated for three years and he is still aggressive and combative.

Being a single parent is not something that I ever dreamed of. I waited eight years. I waited eight years to have a child with my ex. I had a lot of shame around being divorced and I lost friends because of it. So I lost social support with raising my son, but I'm working on building that up again. As a single parent, I have a very strong bond with my son. I'm able to create the tone and atmosphere at home, but there's no one to take over when I hit rock bottom. As much as you think family or friends will help, they won't be there at 2 a.m. when your baby won't sleep through the night and you have to go to work the next day. You have to make all the decisions and have all the responsibility and you have no emotion. emotional support. People often say, I feel like I'm a single parent because my husband is away for

work all the time, but that's not true, because they have them a phone call away for emotional and financial support. Would I still have had my son? Half of me says, as much as I love my son, maybe not. But that's mostly because my ex is a narcissist, so there's no such thing as co-parenting and he is angry at me even though he's the one that left. The other half of me says the breakup and having to be a solo parent has meant that I was forced to heal and look at myself. So my son is such a huge blessing. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. I get asked all of the time about which CBD brands I recommend. And honestly, I have like two or three companies reach out every week asking to work together. But I wanted to find a brand that I really loved and could stand

behind before recommending it to you guys, which is why I am so excited to share Kyoto Botanicals with you. Kyoto Botanicals has a few incredibly important things going for them. They own and operate their hemp supply chain from seed to bottle and hand-produce every bottle they sell to deliver products with unmatched consistency and quality. They believe that every single ingredient matters and should contribute to your overall health, which is why they only use USDA certified organic oils to deliver flavor with benefits. Their products only have organic single-source plant extracts, not lab-developed flavors and colors, so you get whole plant benefits as nature intended.

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My personal favorite way to take the tincture is to put a few drops under my tongue and let it sit for about 30 seconds before swallowing. That way, the most active compounds get straight into your body. They always have free shipping, which I love, and then you can get a whopping 25% off your order by visiting Kyoto Botanicals.com and using the code healthier together, like the name of this podcast. Again, that's K-Y-O-T-O-B-O-T-A-N-I-C-A-L-S-K-O-B-O-B-T-A-L-S-K-O-B-Tan-O-B-Tan-O-Bat-T-O-B-T-O-B-T-E-T-E-L-B-T-E-T-E-L-E-B-T-E-E-R-B-A-B-R-A-B-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E. Yeah, I'm happy to. My name is Sophie Jaffe. I live in Los Angeles with my three kids who are almost two, eight, and ten. And they are such a joy. I'm excited to talk about them. I feel like I'm not really interviewed a ton about parenting. So strangely enough. But I've been in the wellness space for so long that that's probably why it takes a precedent. I am a raw food chef. I have my yoga teacher certification. I have over 500 hours. as a yoga teacher and a personal trainer. And I just love all things wellness and love chatting about intuition, food, kind of all the things under the umbrella of wellness.

And I'm so excited. I was a guest on one of your episodes a while back. So people should go listen to that because that was like very different than parenting. Things you're not supposed to talk about. That's like one of my favorite episodes because we basically just is at my live LA event and we got into all of the stuff that. people don't normally talk about, which I absolutely love. Yeah, I'm surprised people don't interview you more on parenting because you are such

parenting goals to me. When we were talking before we started the call, you were like, yeah, when people don't want to have kids and they talk to me, I make them want to have kids, basically. So did you always know you wanted to have kids? I think so. It's not like, I didn't think about it, like, you know, how some people think about what their wedding dress is going to look like and what it's going to feel like. and what it's going to feel like and what they're being.

I didn't ever imagine things like that. I never was like, that's what my wedding will look like or that's how I'll be as a mom. It was always just like when I'm a mom or it was an understanding within myself that I wanted to be a parent, that I wanted to be a young mom, that I wanted to be connected, that I wanted to do things differently than the way I was raised, which is one of the really the biggest thing is like switching and shifting the paradigm of what a parent means and especially in what the way I was raised. So yeah, I think it was always just an understanding that I would have babies and that I wanted to be a mom and that I would marry someone who wanted to have children together. And why did you

want to be a young mom? So my dad in my mind, he is older, but in my mind it was always like this. One of the only fears I've actually really ever had my entire life is that my dad's going to die. And it's because when I was a kid, he got gray hair when he was in his 30s. So, And he was older. So to me, I always felt different. I always felt like my dad, because my dad is, I mean, he's now I'm 36 and he's 77. So I mean, he's probably 10 out 10 years older than the average dad of children that were when I was a child, children my age. But it felt significant. It felt really like, okay, well, I want to be a young mom and I want to be really vibrant and connected. I just saw like this, like if I ever were to visualize, I always saw the children being a

part of my world instead of it being a separate thing. Like I've never thought of parenting. And maybe that's just because of the way my mom was and the way I was raised. It's, it was never that you have to put your life on pause to be a mother. And so for me, it was really inspiring. It was like, why wouldn't I want like a little like baby chicklets running after me and like being a part of it? Like, that to me that's so much it makes life so much more rich and um yeah so i think it just was always like that's just the way that i want it to be is i want to have children young and i want them to be integrated into my life it's interesting because we've been talking for only a few minutes and you've already sort of mentioned the ways you wanted your parenting to line up with your parents and the ways

you wanted it to differ from your parents and it's just interesting to have you do you feel like you're always sort of aging your parenting and your children's life against your own childhood? I think so. I think a lot of the inspiration behind being a good mom is like all the mistakes my parents made and like bless them. They did their best. My mom was a single mom of two and a half. My sister is older and moved away at a young age. She did her best. She worked full time and had my brother and I, we were close in age, actually same as my kids, Kai and Leo. And we're, you know, 23 months apart, totally best friends. But like, we moved every year. We moved from when I was in third grade until I was in 10th grade. We lived in different homes and I went to different schools

for the most part. And that was really hard. And I adjusted and I learned how to adapt. My brother didn't learn how to adapt as well. And I really think it affected him in a negative way. And I really think it affected them in a negative way. And so a lot of the choices that my mom and dad made, some of them I I am grateful for. And I think only in later age as I'm a mother myself, am I seeing the goodness and how well they did. But for the most part, a lot of the things they did, a lot of the habits they created, a lot of the ways they treated us and not being able to depend on them, it being kind of chaotic all the time, but not in like a beautiful way and kind of like a unpredictable way. So all of those things, like my mom's relationship to money, like a lot of the things I watched her,

I was like, I'm going to be the opposite. I'm going to be the opposite. I'm going to do this differently. And one of the greatest things, which we'll get into, but one of the greatest gifts of being a parent is observing and like relishing in the fact that I do things differently and that I show up to my children and that I'm dependable and that we are creating a structured, loving, consistent childhood for them. And like the simple moments of summer vacation or the end of a long day and I'm reading to my kids at night, you know, we read to them every night before bed. Like they both can read on their own, but we read to them as a practice because it's just so beautiful and helps them really go into sleep really like as a nice segue. And like I didn't have that consistency of doing something the same

every night. I like made up my own rules and went to bed whenever I felt like it. And my mom was just kind of like, you're fine. Like, we can trust you. You're a good girl. And like, yeah, I was. But I also was like up till 1030 as an eight year old. Like that shouldn't be, you know. And so just the consistency I'm able to offer my kids, I like leave their room crying after like reading them a bedtime story. Because I'm like, wow, I'm giving them like what I always crave, you know, and what what I feel like parenting quotes should be, even though there's no shoulds, but like for me and for my own healing and then what I want to offer my children. You're like reparenting yourself. parenting your children?

100%. How did you know when you were ready to have kids? Because you were quite, how old were you when you had your first? I was 26 when I had Kai. So I was 25 when I got pregnant. That's really early. It's pretty young, I think. I mean, there's definitely I know people who've gotten pregnant that young,

but especially I think in a coastal area in L.A. is pretty young. So how did you know you were ready? I went to high school in a small town. So I think that most of my friends from high school had already had their first, maybe second by that point. It wasn't like a weird thing. A lot of kids, a lot of kids had children like 18, 19 in my small town.

Yeah. What else were they going to do? And so I think that I didn't think it was strange. I learned later on that it's a lot harder to not have a community of parents around you. But yeah, my husband, Adi, is eight years older than me, eight and a half, seven and a half, something around there. And so again, with that like one fear of my dad being older than everyone, the minute that a D and I were married, I was like, let's do this. Because I'm interesting.

I also, if like you ever go over to our podcast, Ignited and listen to our story and what we've been through, you've been through a lot of like crazy things in our relationship and then later our marriage. And I think that once we realized that we were in it, like we were really in it with for each other and with each other. that's when it was like, why wouldn't we just start having kids? Because we know we want to have kids. And he loves children. He's one of those people that, like, loves all babies. I'm not like that. I don't like walk down the street and I fawn over dogs or fawn over babies.

But he is. He loves all babies. So he, that was really attractive to me. And I was like, oh, all right. Well, let's just do this because what do we have, what do we have to wait for? How did getting pregnant change your relationship with him? Well, I think. I think in many ways, first of all, my husband doesn't really know what to do with someone once they're pregnant.

Like, he didn't really know what to do with me. He didn't really realize that that was part of getting a baby is that then the woman's pregnant. He hadn't really thought that part out. He was funny during pregnancy. He just, like, didn't know what to do with me. And it was really hard. It was very hard for me. I felt like unwanted, undesirable. And like, this is probably not the part that you want to hear, but you know I'm unfiltered. So I'm going to share it. It was. definitely something that I wish I would have known ahead of time because, and there's no way to know, but I needed more support. I needed to feel loved. I needed to feel beautiful as my body was growing, as I'm carrying life. I was sick for the majority of my pregnancies, not the entire time, but at least the first trimester for all. And like, I'm throwing up. I'm gaining weight by the minute and carrying a life. Like the one thing that I want is my husband to make me feel desired and wanted. And I didn't get that. And so I had to kind of figure that out. And we went through a lot. We went through more intensive therapy while I was pregnant. Um, he's, he doesn't come from a very intimate family.

So that might have been part of it. But yeah, pregnancy sucks being married to a D. I have to say, it pretty much sucks. And he's very honest. He doesn't know what happens to him. It's just like a disconnect, but did it change over the three. Not really when Noah was it. No. Not really. I wish I could say it did. Yeah, but you know what? I kind of by the time I was pregnant with Noah, I embraced it as a time to go inward within myself because I really do feel that the time that you're pregnant, the veil is so thin. It feels like such a magical time. Like anything is possible. It feels spiritually like the veil is very thin. When I sleep when I'm pregnant, like I sleep hard. I sleep the majority like so much. And I dream very vividly. So it's almost like an adventure just within.

myself and my own spiritual growth, I healed from a lot of different, from like eating disordered stuff in my early, my mid-20s to my relationship with my mother, all sorts of things, deep, deep issues within myself I healed from during these pregnancies and after. So I kind of was on my own journey. Like, who knows? Was it that he couldn't handle supporting me in that way? Or is it that I was just emotionally going through so much that I, you know, I don't know. But that was my experiences that I did feel unsupported by him. I felt unwanted. And then there were moments of beauty. There were moments of him feeling the kick. It's like he didn't know what to do with my changing being. And it's so hard when the baby's not kicking and, you know, there's no real relationship to what's inside. It's

hard to relate to a pregnant woman. So I think that once the babies got bigger and he could feel the kicks and we had a routine and he would get me, you know, a bagel with cream cheese and butter. And there were things that he could do that felt like gestures that felt good. But we had to figure that out. And each time it was like it had never happened before. That's really interesting. Did you like being pregnant outside of the relationship elements? Like does it suck?

Because I was so sick, I wasn't super into it. So I'm not going to say that it's the worst thing ever, but I am not also going to romanticize it and say it's a beautiful experience. For me and my body, I'm so sensitive that I was sick for, with Noah till five months and I was sick with the boys through the first trimester. And then it went away and then it was fine. I went back to working out. I went back to eating normally.

It's a beautiful experience. And sometimes I miss the sensation of feeling the baby within me moving, but I don't miss pregnancy. What about birth? Is birth like terrified? No, birth is dope. Birth is dope because here's the thing. For me, it's like I can do anything for a day.

I can do anything for four hours. I can, right? Like, we put our bodies through the craziest things. I've done half marathons up like mountains in Big Sur. Like, we do crazy shit to our bodies to experience. There's usually not a reward at the end of those things. But this is like. The best reward ever.

The best reward ever. So because I know how in love with the babies I am and how much I grow and how that relationship, there's nothing like being a mother and or a father, but especially a mother to give birth to your child and to then, like, get to experience their entire childhood and have this person in your life forever. Like, there's nothing better in the world. And, you know, a lot of times, like, the biggest conversation I'd say that comes up, like, we'll be on vacation somewhere and someone in a pool will, like, we'll all be drinking and, like, my kids will be running around and they'll be like, oh, man. And maybe the husband will say something to me

and be like, yeah, she's just. doesn't want to, she's too work obsessed. There's no way that she'll have kids anytime soon. And then like within 25 minutes, I've convinced them that they can do both. And I think that that's the thing and what makes me unique from other moms is like, I'm not the type of mom that's going to want to homeschool my kids. I'm not an extreme person in that way. I would never like all in. I'm going to just homeschool all my kids and like have a homestead. Like that's not me. I like having my own independence. I like working for myself. I like having a separate relationship with my husband and partying, you know, a few times a year and going away and having

our own independent lives. And we have a live-in nanny now to help us since we have three. But before that, we made it work with part-time babysitters and still had an independent life. And I think that one thing that a D and I do well, I'm really the one orchestrating it, so let's just say the thing that I do well, is that I do balance it well and that I do make sure that I am equally apparent as much as I am equally Sophie and my own life and my own independent life and carving out time and space and energy for me to fill my own cup. And if anything, I think that because I have children is why I'm so balanced because, and I don't know, right, I haven't had the last 11 years I've been with children or pregnant. So it's hard to know, but I really do think, like, times in my life that were so hard,

like breakups with friends or, you know, problems with, I don't know, work stuff or little things. I think that I don't worry about them as much because I'm so grounded, because I'm a mother and because of these relationships that I have. Like, to me, there's nothing more important. And having my own life and being able to fill up my own bucket and take care of myself is more important than ever when I'm supporting, you know, when I'm the nucleus to this family and to my community. A family. Yeah. It's definitely like the part of becoming a mother that's the most appealing to me is almost that I think everybody's inherently a little bit narcissistic. Just, you know, I'm focused on an anxiety, I think, is a particularly narcissistic disorder. And I say that as

with anxiety as my personal thing that I struggle with, but it's like you're living in a future that you're literally only creating in your head. And the idea that maybe I would be forced away from that and be forced away from thinking about my own self-interest so much is really appealing to me. I think that's probably singularly the most appealing part about having children. It really teaches you that you're not the most important person. And most of us need that. And I think that it's not a milestone, but, you know, like a place in your life where it's like, we're meant to have babies as my instinct is like it's a primal need and desire. And it's a thing that instantly makes you not the most important person in your life.

It really does. So now like maybe it's the same, but at least someone else is as important as you are. And you made this little thing. And it's completely unable to take care of itself. it is completely dependent on you for milk, for sleep, for moving around, for changing a diaper. Like, you are responsible for someone else's life, which is way more important than whatever things you were anxious about before. So a lot of those things, and that's why I say, like, I really feel like a lot of the problems,

quote unquote, and things that I had and I was struggling with, they weren't as bad or they didn't last as long because a baby runs in the room or a kid runs in the room and gives me kisses. I'm like, what am I doing worrying about this thing? It's really not that big of a deal. And I also want to share, I just came to me after we had Kai our first, Adi's mom, who is super sweet, just like they're not very affectionate and like necessarily the most outgoing when it comes to love. They're like doers, a family of doers. Adi's mom wrote Adi a text and said right after Kai was born, now you know how much we love you. I just got full body shivers.

Every time. Every time I think about it, it's like you can't know how loves you are and you can't know the capacity you have to love a human being until you have your own. You just can't. So that's one of the things I'm actually afraid of that I think you've done a really good job of is I'm afraid I love my relationship with that and I'm afraid of. and I'm afraid of loving somebody so much more than Zach and having... It's just different.

It's just different because that's kind of like the argument when people say like, oh, I'm going to have my second. How could I possibly love my second as much as my first? Your heart just expands. It's really hard to explain. But the minute that second baby's born or the minute that third baby's born, your heart makes space. Your energy makes space for that other.

And there's just room for everyone. And my love for a D has grown as we add more people to our tribe because we made those babies. And I remember when we first had Kai and Leo, like, we would just sit in bed for like an hour going through photos on our phones of the kids, like until our eyeballs shut and just like, oh, just like aching because they're the babies we created and sharing memories and, you know, memories that are from nothing to first steps. but just them talking, walking, absorbing, reflecting on these humans that we co-created. It's truly the biggest gift. And it 100% elevates the love that you have for your partner, watching them be a father or wife. But for you, like, watching Zach be the dad and seeing who he becomes in an authentic way, what it creates inside of him.

You have no idea. We didn't know that Adi would have like an adverse. reaction to me being pregnant. I also didn't know that I would love him that much more exponentially more by witnessing him father our children and certain things that are just such gifts like Adia's insisted on teaching them Hebrew. For the first three years, it was a nightmare, right? It was like he didn't, the kids were resistant and they were like, it's hard, we don't like this. You're so mean. And he'd be like, repeat in Hebrew. And he'd say it in Hebrew, just like, again, in Hebrew. And now they're fluent in Hebrew. And they're fluent in Hebrew. And they're.

And that's a gift that I couldn't have given him that gift. You know, and there's certain things like about parenting and the way he disciplines and the way we come together and figure out what works for both of us. Just as when you buy a home and you have to co-create the space and you have different design aesthetics, like even more so you have children and you have to figure out like, how are we going to go through this life with as little amount of resistance between us so we can be a team? And that's again something I didn't have growing up. My parents were in a team. like they were divorced, like it was a mess. And they were always talking shit about each other. It was awful to put us through that.

For a D and I, we're a team. And they feel that. And that gives them a real sense of foundation and trust. Do you feel like being a parent has limited your life in any way? Not even remotely. What about, I'm just going to throw out some example ways. Yeah. With friendship, have you lost any friends or had friends

that you didn't, weren't able to keep a strong relationship with because you didn't have as much time? I would say by having children, the friendships that I choose and the ones that stick shift because of it. So maybe a mom friend who we don't have the same aligned views that maybe we would have been fine as friends otherwise, but because we feel so differently on something that we just butt heads. And so we kind of separate that that happens. And then on the flip side, a mom, a friend who doesn't have children yet, I would say that it creates more of an intensity for me to like a desire to be authentic to my needs because I'm a mom and I'm protecting the kids. So I have a friend that ended last year, a friendship that ended last year.

Whereas when I look back on it, I probably would have continued being her friend if I didn't have kids because there wasn't as much at stake. but because I, when I make decisions now, I have to imagine me, my children, and my husband all holding hands almost like in a circle. I have to imagine every decision I make that they're along for the ride energetically, physically, emotionally for all of it. If I'm making a decision from that place of connection to them and, you know, loyalty to them, then I make different decisions. but that doesn't mean that I'm losing out on opportunities or experiences. If anything, I've expanded, you know, my worthiness.

I take care of myself better. I'm even more honest and authentic than I think I probably would be otherwise because I would kind of not face things or like lean into things as much. But I, Mama Bear is real. That protective, tribal instinct is real. And as they get older and as they're watching, the adults come in and out of their life, whether they're my friends or my own family, I know very clearly that I need them to be consistent

in their lives. So if my girlfriends or if my family can't do that, then I'm going to hold them to a certain standard and say, like, it's just not working out for us until you can start to be consistent because it's not fair to my kids who are like, why didn't she come over? She said she was going to come over and spend the night or why can't grandpa, you know, it's like, I'm not doing that. It's just like, I have a choice. Like you almost treat yourself better because you don't want your kids to see you treating yourself poorly. 100%. What about financially?

Kids are like so expensive and that freaks me out because everybody said there's like a million zillion articles about how expensive kids are and I feel like Zach and I are barely keeping it together with our cat, you know? Aren't you in New York City right now? Yes. I think it's a little different there. Like for me, I don't think so. I think first of all, we are so privileged just by if you're listening to this podcast.

You're probably one of these privileged people I'm talking about where that when you have your first child, everyone cannot wait to celebrate you and shower you with gifts and in the most beautiful way. They're like, oh my God, Liz is having a baby. Can't wait to send her this thing that I love so much for my child or I can't wait to shower her with, you know, all the things from her right. It's it's something that, you know, we want to have a tribe and we want to have a community and we want to shower them with love and support. And a lot of people that live far away, like that's one of the ways. they can support is getting you what you need. So I don't think I bought anything really in the first for the first baby. And then I used everything from the first baby for the second because they were only two years apart. And then we did it all over again with Noah. But by that point, I knew what I really needed and what I didn't. And you really don't need much. I have a blog post actually about like what to pack for the hospital. What do you actually need? And then what do you actually need for those first like eight weeks of baby to create your registry? and it's really very simple.

And I think... But stuff like, if Zach and I wanted to take a vacation, and I even think about this just going from me, because I used to travel all the time myself, and I was like, oh, I can go anywhere, spend a pretty small amount of money. And now when I go with Zach, we have to spend more money.

And then you guys, I know you go to Israel in the summer, do you find it hard to fit that in? Financially, you have to get a bigger place. You have to file these plane tickets. You have to feed all these people. Yeah. Now, yes. I can see that it's big, but I think the cool thing about being a parent is that it grows kind of

slowly. I love that there's like this huge sacred pause for that nine, 10 month period of being pregnant. So you're pregnant. You know you have a baby coming. You get to prepare for 10 months. 10 months of like this perfectly timed like almost a year to get ready mentally, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, financially. You get, it's like there's a Jewish saying that I don't remember exactly how it goes, but it's essentially like God will provide. So it's like as your heart will expand, your bank will expand, or the amount of money in your bank, the, you know, your home. Like you just create space when you need it. And I really do believe that because it's such, you know, and I'm not religious. I'm actually just very spiritual. And my husband's from Israel.

So he's, he's actually secular. But we, you know, I'm around a lot. lot of people, my kids went to a Jewish preschool. And so I remember them always saying this thing of just like, you will be protected. You are doing God's work. Like you're creating life. You're creating a miracle. And beyond that in a secular way, it gives you time. You've got the pregnancy. You have almost a year to prepare for bringing that baby into your world. And then the first two years, like, you don't have to buy a plane ticket for that baby until they're two. We're buying our, Noah's been on like six flights, maybe more. And we've never bought a plane ticket. Yeah, she's on my body.

It's very self-sufficient. She's breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is free. What do you need? You need diapers and some clothing and a car seat. That's all you need. Go on like a college fund. But like that's in 20 years.

Yeah. But when you get pregnant. Okay. Okay. Right? Like where I was financially, even three years ago and then I think about 10 years ago with Kai, like I was an infant when I had Kai, basically. I was 26.

Right. Like I was like doing private yoga as my full time. Like it's just you just create it. Like the world that I've created now, I never would have known I would have gotten here. But these opportunities arise if you're open to it. And if you believe that you're worthy of it and that you, you work hard.

If you work hard, the universe responds, you know? And you get creative and you start figuring things out, ways to save money, college fund, all of that. But to like not have.

kids because of a college phone? Like, I don't even know if all my kids are going to go to college. I can probably tell you for a fact, Leo's probably not going to. He's probably going to go travel through Europe and, you know, volunteer somewhere. Like it's, you have no idea. So there's no reason to like stop yourself from experiencing such a profound joy in your life and to share your love and to live for something else other than yourself because of the fear of what if I can't provide. Like, do you have family? Does he have family? Does he have family, right? Like, I go through this with a D whenever we start to like go down the route of like, oh my God, but what if I take this risk and what if it doesn't work out? Like, then we'll move into

my parents' house. Is that ideal? No, we actually did move into my parents' house after I had Kai because Adi was studying for his dissertation and he was basically at UCLA all the time. So I went and moved into my parents' house for the end of my pregnancy through the first few months and then I had to get out of there. But there's always something. I saved up money during that time and was doing online stuff before that was even a thing. And you just figure it out. All of it you can figure out. It's you're so much more balanced when you have a baby. Like you're so much more to me. To me, it's like it's you can just think clear because you know what? When I know that I need to be off at a certain time, I am more efficient with my time. If I have all day to just like lounge and do

whatever I want, I'm way less organized. When I actually am like, okay, I have from 12 to 3 during her nap time and then another little spurt from three to five when a D is taking the baby, I know that I'm going to be really efficient and really great with my time management. So again, there's like all these benefits because you're thinking of someone other than yourself and you're prioritizing someone other than yourself. Yeah, that's interesting. My last thing I was going to ask was if it limited your time because I feel like time is the most valuable resource we have in a lot of ways.

But you just feel like you've gotten more efficient and you can do just as much because you fit it in better, essentially. Yeah. I think so. I think that we prioritize what we prioritize. And if, you know, little humans are the thing that you're prioritizing and being really like, I really, when I'm around them, want to be present. So instead of multitasking all day long until I die, I know that that doesn't serve me. So I've learned how to do less multitasking. Am I perfect at it? No. But, you know, so many studies have shown that multitasking actually, you're basically doing nothing at all, like it's in fullness, right? So instead of creating more

anxiety in your body by trying to do seven things at once, I try and just balance what I can. And also right before we end, I want to share right after I had Leo, our middle, Kai was almost, Kai was almost two when I had Leo. And I had just had him. It was a great birth. It was lovely. He was really early, unexpected. I was at the park with both of and Kai was running around and Leo was in the baby carrier brand new. And I just remember looking at my whatever old cell phone was at that time, not eight years ago. And the emails were just piling up and the texts were piling up. And I just couldn't. And I just looked at both of them. And I had this realization. I was like, they're both happy. They're both thriving. They're both love.

They're happy. That's all that matters. All the other stuff is extra credit. No one's going to be like, oh, you didn't get back to me on that deadline. I just had a baby. It's the best excuse in the world because it's real. And as long as it took that pressure off where I was like, oh my God, I'm so quote behind. Like, behind what? I created a life. I had this other one running around. They're so happy. They're doing so well. How could I even like put that pressure on myself to do all this other stuff? When I want to get to it, I will. But that's extra credit. And I think, like really when I let that sink in, as long as they are loved, happy, and secure, I'm doing a great job today. And if I get to the other stuff, that's extra credit. All right. Well, thank you so

much for taking the time to share your perspective. You are, you're very persuasive. I will give you that. I even went light on you. Oh my God. I'm scared to find out what heavy would be. But thank you for taking the time to chat. My complete pleasure. From Anonymous. My body has changed, and that has been very hard for me to get used to. I am so proud of what it has been capable of, carrying three children and also breastfeeding them for their first year. But with that, my body has been shared for the last five years.

I have a hard time losing weight while nursing, unlike many other women who find the opposite, and some days I look in the mirror and don't even recognize myself. I told my husband it is like I jumped into a fat suit that I cannot get out of. I exercise five days a week and eat to nourish my body, and for me to provide a nourishment for my babies, but it clings to the weight. I look forward to the day I can hopefully feel like myself on the outside again, as I have grown so much on the inside. From Anonymous, it's such a tough subject to get honest about. I had an abortion two years ago, even though I was 32 and could have easily had the baby. I want kids, but the timing in the whole situation wasn't right,

a deep inner knowing, but it was definitely a mini-identity crisis. I don't regret it, but I do sometimes wonder if I'll ever have kids. From Anonymous. I don't, want to have kids. I don't want to contribute to the continued impact on the earth. I don't judge others for having children. That's their decision, but I stand firm that it's not for me. I haven't and still don't feel guilty about it. And in fact, I feel more confident in my voice as I get older. I also feel like it's irresponsible to bring children into this world these days without understanding its impact. The clothes and toys are so excessive. Selfishly, I wanted to not worry about finding child care traveling on a whim and having more alone time. My partner and I are

totally aligned, which feels solid to have your thoughts reinforced. No matter what phase of life you're in and whether or not you have kids, I hope that this episode sparked a lot of thoughts and conversations for you. I'm so in awe constantly of how open and honest, the people that I interview and all of you listeners who shared your thoughts on Instagram are. So thank you for your contributions to this topic. It's such an important topic, and I really think that we need to spend more time having these types of conversations, even if they're difficult, even if they're taboo, especially if they're difficult and especially if they're taboo.

I would love, love, love to hear your thoughts. So please screenshot and tag me. I'm at Liz Moody on Instagram and tag my guest, Megan with an H underscore down, at Ambitious Kitchen and at sophy. We would love to hear your thoughts, your feelings, what this sparked for you. We would love to hear all of that. So please tag us. And if you love this episode, please rate or review it on iTunes.

It really, really helps the show. That's why podcast creators are always saying it, even though. it's so annoying. And if there's somebody that you know in your life that you think would benefit from this episode, please share it with them. I love to grow the healthier together family. I love for us all to get healthier together. And so please, for this episode on, I massively appreciate it. And I would love to help more people bring these taboo topics out into the open. As always, thank you for listening. I love having you here and part of this family. And I can't wait to talk to you on the next episode of the healthier together podcast.

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