The Liz Moody Podcast - Things You’re Not Supposed To Talk About—Money, Sex, & Body Image with Sophie Jaffe & Courtney Swan LIVE FROM LA

Episode Date: May 29, 2019

On this special live episode of the Healthier Together podcast, recorded from the LA stop of my book tour, I sat down with two of my favorite women, Sophie Jaffe (@sophie.jaffe) and Courtney Swan (@realfoodology) to talk about “things you’re not supposed to talk about.” We all bonded over having zero filter, so this is an incredibly candid discussion about money (including how we make our money and lots of hard numbers!), sex (definitely don’t listen to this part in the car with kids!), and a super real, raw look at body image. I had a bit of a vulnerability hangover after recording this one, but the content is so good that I couldn’t not share it. I hope you feel like you’re with your most open girlfriends, breaking down the barriers of shame that have made women feel not good enough for centuries. PS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy right here or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! Enjoy! This episode is brought to you by ButcherBox, a brand new sponsor that I’m so excited to have on board. ButcherBox sends grass-fed and finished beef, pastured chicken and pork, and wild-caught Alaskan salmon directly to your door. I’m such a huge advocate for healthy eating being accessible to everyone, no matter where they live or what grocery stores they have access to, and I think ButcherBox, which ships nationwide, is a huge step in the right direction. If you want to try ButcherBox for yourself, go to ButcherBox.com/lizmoody. With this link, you’ll get $20 off your first order, PLUS baby back ribs, 2 pounds of ground beef, and 2 New York strip steaks free in your first box! DM me on Insta if you need ideas for what to make! This episode is also brought to you by one of my favorite food brands, Love Beets. Love Beets, which is found in the produce section of most grocery stores, makes cooked beets with no preservatives, that taste really fresh, just like a beet you would actually make yourself. They have plain beets, but also a ton of different fun flavors, including Beet Salsa, Wine & Balsamic, Honey + Ginger, and Sweet Chili. You can find Love Beets in most retailers nationwide, including Whole Foods, Kroger, and Costco, and you can also buy their beet juices and beet powder online at lovebeets.com—use the code LIZ for 20% off. You can also follow @lovebeets on Insta for more recipe ideas—and as always, you can DM me if you need recommendations or ideas for what to do with them! Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthyer Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody. I'm a writer and cookbook author living in Brooklyn, New York, with my cute cat, Bella, and my cute husband, Zach. And today's episode is kind of a special episode. It's the live recording from my L.A. Tour Stop for Healthier Together, which is my healthy cookbook for friends, co-workers, and couples that came out in April. And I've been touring around the country for it. I've gotten to meet so many of you, which is amazing.

And I have a bunch of tour stops coming up, so definitely check Liz Moody.com slash events. I think I posted my Nashville event. That should be up here by the time you listen to this episode. And I'm posting Seattle and Portland soon. So I would love to come and see all of you guys and give you hugs in person. So definitely check that out. But this is my L.A. Tour Stop.

And this is a very special event. I don't record all of my tour stops for the podcast. But this one is the things you're not supposed to talk about conversation. And I was like, oh my gosh, I need to share that with my listeners. So this came about because I was talking to. my friend Sophie Jaffe and Courtney Swan. Courtney is Real Foodology on Instagram and then Sophie is at Sophie.jafi on Instagram. They both, you know, are sort of influencers living that lifestyle, sharing their wellness knowledge with people. And we often get in these conversations where we're

like, oh my gosh, why don't people talk about these things? We're talking about sex or money or relationships or just things that people are often considered taboo in everyday life. And none of us have any filter and none of us think that anything is taboo essentially for better or for worse. And we were like, we should do a panel or a podcast recording where we talk about all the things you're not supposed to talk about. So it's coming to L.A. for my tour event. And I was like, we should do this for my L.A. tour event. And the things you're not supposed to talk about panel was born. Before I go any further, I'm just going to say this is not an episode that you want to listen to if you're in the car with kids. This is not an episode that you want to listen to if you're at

work without headphones. It's definitely got some more R-rated content. So if you're listening and there's people around that you maybe don't want to hear that R-rated content, I would definitely recommend stopping right now. But just as a brief overview, if you're still here, of what we get into in this podcast, it is some good and juicy stuff. So we start off with money and we do really hard facts and figures with money. It is my biggest pet peeve when people talk about money and they're just like, oh, like, I wish I made more money or I feel like I'm underpaid or I feel like I'm overpaid, but they don't tell you what that number is because I think that it's in sharing our salaries and in sharing hardcore concrete money information that we arm ourselves and all of the

women that we surround ourselves with with the information that we need to continue to climb in the world and continue to minimize our wage gaps or pay disparities and all of that. So the money section is nitty-gritty. It's about how we all make our money, what our money struggles are, and we use real facts and figures. And I think you're going to be really interested in that, especially if you're just like a voyeur and you're like, well, how much money do you make for this type of thing? Which I definitely, both from an empowerment perspective, but honestly, just from a curiosity

perspective as well. It's a common thing in New York. If you go to anybody's apartment, you're like, what do you pay for rent? And it's just interesting to see how different people's, I don't know, live sort of come. I think we all have those friends where we're like, how do they pay for their life? And so here's a little bit of insight into how some people pay for their life. And then the second topic that we get into is about sex. And this is a very vulnerable, very intense conversation about sex.

We talk about cheating. We talk about threesomes. We talk about long, dry spells in relationships, sex in relationships, sex out of relationships, just a lot of the sex questions that you would maybe want to ask your really open girlfriend or talk about with your really open girlfriend and we are your open girlfriends. And so we're going to talk about this stuff on this episode. And then the third section of the podcast is about body image and self-love. And again, this is also a very vulnerable take on it. It's not self-love. Like, go take a bath with some flower petals and some orange blossoms and you'll have self-love.

It's like, this is what I hated about my body for a long time. Here's how I learned to love my body. Here's how I feel when I see other people's bodies and how I deal with that. Here's how I deal with having the body that I have in the public eye. I got really vulnerable and intimate and open in all of the parts of this episode. I think Sophie says in the episode that she was going to have a vulnerability hangover the next day. And I definitely had that when I was listening back to this. I was like, I can't believe that I shared some of the stuff that I shared. But I also think that these are really important conversations.

and when we say things are taboo, we cloak them in shame. And that shame just perpetuates the notion that we're not good enough exactly as we are with all of our quote-unquote flaws and faults, which I don't think are flaws and faults, I think those are the things that make us as. So I think by taking ownership, by being honest, and by having these conversations that aren't really taboo, they're just taboo because society has essentially told us that we shouldn't be talking about these things. But I think by having these conversations, we can sort of rip back those layers of shame

and say, I'm not ashamed of these things. These are just the things that make me who I am and I'm learning to love who I am. So I'm so grateful to my two guests on this podcast for being willing to go there with me. It's Sophie Jaffe and Courtney Swann. You can find them both on Instagram at sophy.jafi and at Real Foodology. Definitely go and talk to them if you have any questions about any of the beautiful and intimate knowledge they share during this episode. And please come and talk to me about your thoughts on the episode. Again, I'm all about conversations. I'm all about real dialogue. I'd love to hear your feedback, especially about this episode because I put so much of my own intimate, vulnerable thoughts into it. So come talk to me on Instagram. I'm at Liz Moody, as always, and I really

hope you guys enjoy it. I'm Liz, as you guys may or may not know, I am the author of Healthier Together, which if you don't have a copy, there's like cards back there. It's a cookbook for two people. A lot of people love it on their own, too, which I'm finding really interesting because you're not making like four servings of a dish. You're making two, which is really, really nice. It has lots of delicious food. I'm a super trashy eater. So I like to make over trashy food and make it healthy. So it's got a lot of that stuff.

And then my two glorious panelists here is Sophie Jaffe. She is philosophy mama. She has wonderful, delicious products, super food products that are fabulous. And she also just has the cutest kids in the entire planet. I really want to meet her baby. and I was kind of hoping she'd bring her as a co-panelist, but she can't talk yet, which is, you know, a downside. And then Courtney Swan, who is a wonderful person behind Real Foodology. She is a nutritionist.

She travels with Povlo, helping her with her nutrition and staying fit and healthy for the world, I guess. And they're both wonderful people. And we are recording tonight's panel for my podcast, the Healthy Together podcast. So if you don't need to like take notes, you can go. back and listen to the episode once we put it up. So subscribe to the Healthy Together podcast. You don't miss it. And the theme for tonight is things are not supposed to talk about. So one of the things that I bonded with with Courtney and Sophie really early on was the fact that none of us have a filter at all. And we all like to talk about stuff that you are not technically supposed

to talk about. So we're doing like money. We're doing sex. We're doing all sorts of stuff. And if you guys have any questions at any point and you want to like be part of the conversation, just jump on. And this is casual. This is fun. So I don't know. What do you guys feel like kicking it off with? We can do like money, sex, drugs. Let's start easy with money. I think money is fun.

So I think the business of being an influencer is really fascinating to a lot of people. And they're like, how do you make money? What are brands paying you? What does that work like? So can you guys tell me a little bit about how you actually support yourself? I actually make all my money from influencer work. So I have a company. It's a superfood company called Philosophy.

And right now we break even every year. And this year is going to be the different year where we actually make a profit. But it all kind of filters through. And like we pay all of our employees and we pay for all the expensive superfoods and the co-packer and the commercial kitchen and all the supplies that go into that. And the social media and the advertising, everything that it takes to make a company thrive. And so that just kind of breaks even. every year for philosophy. And I have to contribute to that sometimes out of my personal money. But the influencer work is what fuels everything else. So I'm not really in like put all my eggs

into one basket kind of girl. I just don't. I have always done a million things. I've lived kind of bicostal my whole life. My parents divorced and like I've never been all in and one thing and not in like the feeling. Like when I show up to something, I am really present and I'm all in in in that moment, but I wear a lot of different hat. I'm a mom of three, literally. This is a good one, too. Look at this color, you know? But yeah, I wear a lot of different hats. I always have a million balls in the air, and that makes me feel good and safe. And so influencer work over the last, like, three years has fueled everything else and allowed me to have the freedom to continue philosophy. And philosophy is what makes me so inspired day to day and where I get to be really

creative and create new fun recipes in like a very basic sense but then also get to create new products for the world to feel and taste and try and I just think and throughout the years when I when influencer stuff wasn't around I was acting and modeling and like no acting and modeling doesn't exactly fuel my artistic you know intuitive side but it was allowing me to have the freedom to do what I love and do so I've had philosophy now for almost 10 years and Like literally, we've made no money from it. But we are fueling the world with beautiful superfoods. And I get to watch something that's an idea come to life.

And that's the coolest thing in the world. And if I didn't do these other side hustle gigs, which also inspire me in different ways, then I wouldn't have the freedom to do that. So for me, it's more about like, where can I make money doing certain things that pay you more to then energize me and allow me to have the freedom to do the things that really inspire me that maybe don't pay as much. And I'll get there. And I have no doubt.

And the minute that philosophy is making a lot of money, I'm sure I'll stop doing influencer work or a lot less. But for me, you know, I make money from everything, from the clothes I wear, to the beauty brands that I work with, to the food I eat, to who sponsors my podcast or my Instagram or, you know, I work with all kinds of different companies. And it's all very organic and natural. It's like, oh, I love that furniture brand.

I'll get it. Okay, we get it. And then, oh, well, now they'll sponsor me. And then I'll talk about it more on that thing. Like, it's a very organic process. It's not forced. There's no, like, push or pull. It's more like, I just love this thing.

So I'm going to talk about it publicly. And then, oh, well, can we pay you to talk about it even more in this way and make better content and bring in a photographer or bring in a video team? So it's just kind of grown since then. But it's all been my natural desire to share the things I love. in a public way and be honest about that and open. I feel like I don't have as much to say about this as you do. So I tour with the pop star Tovlo and my influencer work allows me to, when Tov is off the road, then work when I'm not working with Tov.

So like she said, I work with different brands and we get paid for different things with the food or the clothes that I wear and so like the food brands that I work with, I'll make a lot of recipes and stuff with them. However, my main job is a tour of Tovlo, but when she's not on the road, like for right now, we've had, I mean, eight months off maybe because she's working on her new album. And I really only make money when we're on the road and we're touring. So when I'm home, then I'm able to actually make money through my blog, through the influencer world by partnering with brands and stuff like that. And do you guys say no to brands a lot? And do you have like an amount that you're not, you know, like I don't post.

I don't do any sponsored stuff on my Instagram. Okay, well, first, I make all of my money through my podcast. I had a full-time job up until February. And so that's where I was really making all my money and then also through my books. Although books do not pay as much as you would think at all, just to put numbers out there because I think that women really need to share numbers with each other. I got $75,000 for my book advance, which is considered like a decent book advance. But for cookbooks, you need to deliver the entirety of the manuscript.

So same as with a novel. You need to deliver everything that they're going to sell with a cook. book, you owe them photography too. So my publishing house is very, they're like kind of the fancy publishing house and they have a very strict list of photographers that you can work with. And I had to pick somebody off of that list and I had to give them $35,000. So yeah, and that's for, it was for an 11-day shoe. They had like 12 people on site. It was all women. It was a really, really, like, I would write a million cookbooks to get to do that that week. It's like summer camp, except for you get to eat all your food that somebody else has made for you. But it's a really

wonderful time, but that was my entire first check. I got nothing of it. And then I had to front all the money for my recipe development for all of the food, all of the ingredients. And I just now, upon publication, got my second check. And then I'll get another one in a year, I believe. So it's very spread out. And that's not where I'm getting like, it's a nice bonus. It was really nice this year because it's taxes. But it came out like, I think we got the check literally five days for you to pay taxes. But it's not where I get the bulk of my money. And then I get. podcast sponsorship. And then also I'm a full-time, well, I'm a part-time writer, I guess, now and I get a lot of money through writing. But also writing does not pay as well as people

might think online sites these days are paying like maybe 300, 400, an article. So you really need to write a lot of them to sort of piece together an income, especially me and my husband are now paying $1,000 in health insurance since I'm not doing, I know, it kills me. I'm just like, we used to live in England. I'm like, if I was doing this in England, it would be such a different, Yeah, I'd have $1,000 more every month. But yeah, I do think one of the things I always say is that women need to tell each other their salaries. They need to tell each other hard numbers as much as possible because that's where that pay disparity comes is just from not having the information. So I think the more we can share the information.

Sophie looks like she wants to share something. So I've been doing influencer stuff for like three years paid. I don't know, something like that. And my biggest pet peeve is when people aren't paid for what they do. So it's a service. Like, influencer work is a pain in the ass. It's you are your own photographer. You are your own actor, model. You have to, I mean, I have three kids. I have to clear those bitches out. Like, it's like, it's a whole thing. And you have to do hair and makeup. You have to do, I mean, you are on. You have to then edit it. You have to then edit it. You have to edit it. Now I'm editing video, which is hilarious, because I don't know what I'm doing. And it's like one thing after another. And then I'm, taking classes and then I'm like, oh, my food art. Like I need to, what? Like, it's all, it just never ends. And I have an assistant. I have a manager. She takes a percentage. My assistant takes a percentage because I can't pay her hourly as much as I wish I could. So I'm like,

okay, you get me more work and you're already helping. So I'll give you a percentage. And it's a whole operation. And it's a lot. And now I have a good camera and like I have to add the best this and that. and it's it's a lot. So all of that that goes into it and contracts. And I mean, it's a headache and it's a lot, but it's also a beautiful existence. So for me, one of the biggest things when I'm around other friends who are influencers is you need to know your worth. And whether it's influence or anything in any market doesn't matter what it is. You need to know your worth and you need to get paid for that.

And for me, I'm supporting three children and my life in Los Angeles. list. Like, I'm not accepting 150 for a post, not even close. And I think I have some of the highest rates. And my manager even says that, like, oh, I don't know if they're going to be okay. And I'm like, I don't give a shit what they say or think. If they want to work with me, these are my rates. And we'll start the conversation there. And 85% of what comes my way, I say no to. So the first thing is it comes through to me, for the most part, I go through it or my assistant goes through the email. I don't even send, I don't even respond most of the time. And then if I do respond, then I'll send it to my manager.

And once it gets there, then it might go through. But usually about 50% of the time it won't even make it past her because she's like, then she goes to the next layer. But isn't that a conflict with that? Or are you sure you want to do that after the thing that you did? Oh, okay. So then we go to the next layer. And it's like, no, we can't do it.

So it goes through all these different layers of, is it, first of all, is it in my integrity? I won't even send it past and first point. If it's not something that I would actually use where put on my, body use with my kids. If I'm not actually even interested in it or excited myself, then no. And the next thing is, well, why don't you send it to me and I'll try it out for a while. And if I like it, then we'll move forward. Like, oh, we have an urgent turnaround. It's in two weeks. I'm like, I've never used your lotion. So I don't know if I like it. So how am I supposed to get you this all that? It's very interesting. So for me, it's all about telling the truth and being

honest and authentic because all you can do is build a brand. It's my family. I've been showing up to Instagram for six years. Like, that's my family. And I'm not going to lie to them. And I'm not. And they know when I do. And I've made mistakes along the way, which we can talk about. But I've worked with brands where I think that it's one thing. And then it's another. I just make a mistake. Because I'm like, oh, that's a lot of money. Okay. And that's not, I don't ever want to do that again. Although I'm sure I'll make more mistakes in the future. I've made a lot. And the minute that I can feel that it was the wrong choice, I take the post down and then I get shit from the brand. And like, their legal teams. on me and they're like you and like I I'm sorry that didn't work well and it's just not a good fit. So most important is that it's an integrity and saying no to what's not and then you start the conversation. I would also always tell people, I tell all of my friends to just ask for more money. It's very, very, very rare that somebody will say no to you because you ask for too much. They'll just ask you to do it for less. Like whether you're in a salary job and you're trying to negotiate a position, whether it's a freelance, more gig-based thing, just ask for more than you

would even think and then negotiate down from there, always, always, always. And I was going to say, and this goes back to what you were kind of already saying, I think it's so important to share actual numbers of people. I was so thankful when I met Sophie because I feel like she was kind of the first person in this influencer world to really just be like, oh no, I made X amount of money for that post, so you should be making more because then it gives you perspective. And then like you said, it kind of helps you figure out what your worth is. And then it helped me kind of navigate like, oh, well, Sophie is getting that much for it. Then I should be getting that much for it, you know?

And I realized that I was getting way underpaid for so many things. And that's why I think it's so important to just be open and honest about it. And I don't know why there's like a stigma with talking about money and like actual numbers. I feel like especially with women. And I feel like it's more important than ever just to just to name it. How do you guys deal with money with you and your husband? I'm a very trusting person, like maybe overly. quote unquote, but that's just my jam. Like my car is unlocked at all times. Like feel free to pop by.

Like if you need something. But my thing is like if you need it, if that person breaks into my car, like they need it more than I do. So I just trust. And I think since the beginning like pretty deep into probably two or three years into dating, we had a joint checking account already. And I'm just like, I'm all in. I'm all in and everything I do. So for better or worse. Yeah, Liz just asked if we equal dollars. So my husband has a PhD and makes nothing. And he saves the world doing real save the world things. He helps addicts and like does the most touching work in the world and makes very little unless he's working with private clients. And then he makes kind of up for it. But he has an online course called Ignited and it's all about recovery. And he's just, he's such a blessing to

the world. But there's not a lot of money in that kind of stuff. You know, and so right now, like for a long time, I made very little because I was doing philosophy full time. And I would supplement with acting and modeling. But philosophy has always been my heart. So I put my focus and energy in there. And now I'm doing influencer work. And that makes a lot more money. But we're still live in L.A. with three kids.

Like it's barely, we're barely paying the bills. But we live a beautiful life. And the point for me is always balance and just having the life that we want and dreaming that up and figuring out, how to piece that together. It's not about like tit for tat or contributing equally. It's just like, can we pay the bills every month so we can have the life that we want? And do you find that that is he completely fine with making less money than you or is that emasculating in any way? I think he's finding peace with that because I really am at peace with it. Like I really don't. I'm not like, why aren't you contributing your amount? Like I feel really good contributing what I can. I feel so

lucky. Like I feel like every day I'm like, let's just ride this wave because like Instagram could go tomorrow. And then I'll do the next thing. And I know that I'll do the next thing. There will be the next thing. There'll be whatever it is. Like I'm not worried. And we have our podcast and there's so many beautiful things that we do and we create together. But I do think for him it is hard, especially in our society as a man, as a father to not bring in what he should. Like he's literally saving people's lives every day. Like the work. he does is insane. And he sits for hours with clients helping them through some of the deepest, darkest moments of their life and turns their lives around and gives them hope. And that should be

compensated fairly. And yet it's not. And one day maybe it will. And he's working really hard. And I think that he'll get there. But really, it's a reminder of we're in this together. And whatever happens happens and he'll just keep doing his best and I'll keep doing my best and everything will continuously balance out. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. I talk a lot about this in my book, but my diet is around 80% vegetables with the other 20% being animal protein, legumes, and grains. I am super picky about my meat, though, and there are literally zero stores in my Brooklyn neighborhood that have the grass-fed and finished and pasturized products that I want. And honestly, I would rather eat no meat than eat meat that's inhumanely raised or filled with the kind of hormones

that I do not want my body. That is why I was so excited when I discovered butcher a few years back. They send incredibly high quality animal proteins frozen directly to your door. And this stuff is really frozen too. Sometimes it would sit out all day while I was at work. And when I came home, it was still rock solid. Beyond being far better for the environment, this type of meat is way better for our bodies. Grass fed beef, for example, has lower levels of unhealthy fats and higher levels of omega-3s than other types of meat in addition to vitamins A and E and a ton of other health benefits. And if you want even more omega-3s, butcher box now carries wild Alaskan sackay salmon. While we sometimes defrost our products in the fridge, more often

I'll actually cook it straight from frozen, which I love because then no matter what, if plans change or if you're too tired to cook, your meat never goes bad and you never waste all that money. I'll pop the frozen meat straight into my instant pot, which is like an amazing life hack, or I'll use the ground beef to make my way more veggies, bolognets, which is a weeknight staple in our house. I'm such a huge advocate for healthy eating being accessible to everyone. I'm sure you guys have heard me talk about this before. It's why I don't use fancy ingredients in my recipes. I want everybody to be able to make them no matter where they live or what grocery stores they have access to. And I think Butcher Box, which ships nationwide, is a huge step in the right direction.

If you want to try it for yourself, go to Butcherbox.com slash Liz Moody. That's butcherbox.com slash Liz Moody, like my name. I'll also leave a link in the show notes. And if you use that link or use the URL that I just said, you'll get $20 off your first order plus. two packs of bacon and two pounds of breakfast sausage totally free. I love Butcher Box. Having a stash of healthy animal protein in my freezer just makes it so much easier to have dinner on the table in any given night. And I hope you love them too. DM me on Insta at Liz Moody if you need ideas for what to make.

Now, let's get back to the episode. I love that. Well, that's a perfect segue into relationships. Courtney, you're currently single, right? And then we have Sophie, who's married. And then I'm married as well. So let's start with sex in relationships. How is your guys a sex life been when you've been in relationships, especially like longer term ones?

And particularly, what was your longest dry spell? And how did you deal with it? Good question. So we have a lot of trauma surrounding sexuality. So I think we're like a unique case. Sure. I'll give a brief. So a D and I, so I can't, when I was 15 to 20, I was in a high school relationship that was really abusive.

My high school boyfriend came from two alcoholics, super Christian, like A-A parents who the dad, like, beat all the kids, kick the dogs down the stairs, like super unhappy. And you could feel that. And they hated me because I was like, hi, like a beam of light. Like, let's all like have fun and smile and laugh and like be loving. And they're like, get the fuck away from me. So that was really traumatic. He was psychologically really abusive. And that was my like kind of imprinting because I was 15.

So from 15 to 20 and then finally I got out. I met a D when I was 20. I moved out to L.A. to get away from my boyfriend. And we broke up when I met a D, which was, who's my husband. And that freed me. And we started dating and two years into our relationship, he cheated on me. And from there we broke up. I broke up with him on this box.

I was like, what? And we got back together a year or later and then from then ever since. So from the last, I don't even know, over 10 years, we've been working hard on our relationship. We've been in and out of therapists and healers and intensive, like sex addict, like recovery. Like, we've been through it all. And it's so beautiful. And it's been such a process of unfolding. And there's a reason I attracted him in my life.

and there's a reason I attract these like addict type people. And there says something about me and my like codependency and all of that. So I've had been forced to stand up against all of that darkness and shadows and scary stuff so that I could be the best version of me. And I know for a fact that if we would have continued at the pace that we were at when I was in my early 20s when we first met, if that version of Sophie would have still been here, I would not be. as evolved. We would not be as close. Like, we needed that. I needed that trauma and struggle and work to be the best version of me because I was fucked up after the five years of like that abuse, emotionally, physically, spiritually all of that with my first boyfriend. I was not in a good place. And if I didn't be forced to go through the work, I wouldn't have looked at it. Because to me,

it was like, that's all dark and ugly and scary. Like, I'm good. Like, Like, I'm just going to continue being super optimistic and happy and everything else will work out. And I'll just attract beauty because I'm being beauty. And like, that's not the way it works. Like, it's always there. And I will always have to face that. We all have to face the negativity in the darkness at some point. And in the last, I'd say, like, seven to eight years, I've finally embraced that darkness in the shadows.

And I think that that's what's helped me heal and really evolve as a human. So that's like our history, which is super light and easy. But because of all of that fun stuff, we have had a lot of sexual, like, I don't, I had no idea, like, what a healthy sex life was. And I, like, my boyfriend in high school used to, it's like not funny. It's not funny. But it's psycho. And he would, like, rip up my V-neck t-shirts because they were too sexy and, like, leave them in a pile on my bed. bed. Like, that's the shit he would do. Like, and I'd be like, oh, my new t-shirt. And I'd be like,

in shreds. Like, who does that? Like, to a sweet girl, innocent, like, it's so fucking sick. And that's where I'm, that's where I was when we met is that girl. I would cry the first, like, few years we had sex. I would cry every time my orgasm because it was like so intense and so confrontational and so intimate. And I didn't know what to do with it. I just didn't know what to do with it. So all the work that we've done and been presented with has been such a gift so that we could uncover both for him and for me. Like he was hiding all this stuff from his own history and his own like non-attachment and like all his history and mine came together. And that's the beauty of a relationship is that you get to come together and face all your shit together if both parties are

willing to do so. And it's hard and it's ugly and it's intense, but it's the most beautiful thing in the world. So we've had so. many iterations and intensities in our relationship. But for the most part, once we healed from all of the traumas, I'd say the most like normal for us is like having sex once a week and showing up for each other and figuring out like we have really intense full lives, like minus all that other stuff just as human beings today. We have three kids and businesses, businesses and all kinds of stuff going on. So to be able to even like show up and be present to each other in that intimate of a way once a week is a lot. Like for us, we're like, we're good with that. Um, because I also just

given what we've been through, I owe more to ourselves. Like I don't even know how to just like show up and fuck. Like I don't really, I wish I could. Like maybe one day, maybe in my 40s. But for now, it's like there's too much that goes into it for my heart. Like I have to really connect to the person and and like feel that. And as far as dry spells, I think my pregnancies were always like the driest. Sounds so bad on so many levels, like quite literally.

So the first, we've just figured this out Friday night. The reason that we are not that intimate and a D is kind of turned off during pregnancy is because during our first pregnancy with our son Kai, that was when the intensity of our, of like his sex addiction was going on. And so he has like a negative association with the pregnancy because it was so dark. Like we weren't allowed.

Like his therapist put us on like sobriety. So he wasn't allowed to masturbate. We weren't allowed to have sex. He wasn't allowed to like touch me until like much, which like, what does that do to a woman when she's like like large and uncomfortable and growing body? first pregnancy and it was so gnarly. So from both ends, it was like this really hard association. So every pregnancy we go through a dry spell and where he's just, I feel like he's not attracted to me, but really he's in this place of fear of what he went through, what we went through. And then I just feel awful. And it's just like just really disconnected time. But also I'm building

a human. So I'm like, get out of my way. Like I don't like. And I love and I also encourage. and love the people that have healthy pregnancies where they're having sex the whole time and feel in their power. Like, that's not me. But that's beautiful. And I think that there's something for everyone. Okay. So my sex life is a little interesting. So I grew up in a very Christian home. I was a virgin until I was 23, which amongst all my friends was very late to the game. Also, if my parents listened to this podcast, I'm really sorry you're about to hear my whole sex story and journey. But yeah, so I was always, and the funniest thing is I didn't even really subscribe to it because I've never really been that religious. I was always like very questioning of it and everything. And I'm not saying either way that either is good or bad. It was just my personal journey. And so when I finally, so then at one point I was like, what am I saving myself for? Like I don't really necessarily subscribe to this like not having sex for marriage. But I was really fucked up from all that.

eventually I did have sex with a boyfriend and then from there I kind of then transferred my like previous views and like morality about sex just being like okay well I'm going to justify this by just having sex with boyfriends so then I had my longest dry spells when I would be in between boyfriends which would be like you know a year sometimes two years and then meanwhile during this time I also started tour managing so before working as a nutritionist for Tovlo I was a tour manager with bands And at the time when I was tour managing these bands, I was one of the only women tour managers in this field. And I felt this immense pressure to be like very respected. And I always felt as though I just felt like, okay, if I'm a woman in this industry and I'm sleeping around, I'm going to be labeled a slut.

Or, you know, there's like all these horrible labels that you get, which I do not subscribe to anymore because I'm a more woke woman these days. but so for the longest time I really struggled with that and then I kind of hit this point maybe when I was like 28, 29, I'm 34 now to give you perspective or I was like, why the fuck do I care? I just want to pursue what makes me happy and sex is fun as long as it's safe and it's with a consenting partner and now that's kind of how I live my life as a single woman. I'm not just, you know, like running amok fucking anyone and everything, but but I have a different perspective about it now because I feel like, why not? You know, I'm trying to live my life and have fun as a single woman and if it's consenting and fun, why not? How's the dating in LA? It's a jungle.

It's horrible. I hate the dating apps because I feel like more than half the time nobody talks on their meeting guys in person. I mean, I had an amazing connection with this guy two weeks ago and he was like, oh my God, you know, I feel like we have such a good connection. I'm having so much fun with you. I want to see you again. And then I text him like a week later. And, And, you know, it was basically like some excuse about how he wants to pursue a friendship with my friend. And I was like, I don't really understand what it has to do with me, but okay. And then I coincidentally ran into him like a week ago, actually. And I confronted him about that.

And he was like, oh, just being sensitive of your friendship with your friend. Now that, like, we're hanging out, I really feel like we have such a good connection. I can't wait to hang out with you again. And I literally haven't heard from him again. And so I'm like that is just, I feel like I'm just like how dating life is right now. It's very hard to navigate in L.A. So I had sex for the first time when I was 18. I was living in Amsterdam at the time.

And it was really. So there was this cute older boy at the hostel that I was working at. And his name was Leo. And he had a thing with my friend. And I thought he was really cute. And so I slept with him. I didn't tell him I was a virgin. I like bled over the bed.

And it was a bunk bed, the top bunk of a bunk bed. And I was so embarrassed because he was like this older boy. So I like crawled out of bed in the morning. And I like, I was just like so embarrassed. And then I came back later and I changed the sheets because that was my job anyways. And I was like, maybe he didn't notice. Which obviously like it was light out. He would have noticed.

But it was a really interesting experience because the friend that he was kind of he had slept with before. My friend April, she was much older than me. She was like 22. But she felt very old and wise to me as an 18 year old. and she pulled me aside. And she was like, I heard you slept with Leo. And I was like, yeah, I'm so cool. He likes me better.

I'm so hot. And she was like, I just want to tell you this, like woman to woman, you're not going to get far in life if you do that to other women. Like women are going to be the people who are going to have your back who are going to be there for you no matter what. And issuing that, I don't think she said issuing. But issuing that to get to feel validated by having a hot guy's attention is not going to get you very far. And I would love to say that I was like, oh, life lesson learned. But throughout the rest of my college years, I really used sex as a form of validation.

I watched a lot of like sex in the city. I hung out with like a very appearance focused group of friends because I was like in high school, I was sort of like the funny one who was friends with everybody. And I love that in college I was like with the hot girls and we were like going to the cool clubs and feeling really hot and sexy. And so I use sex to like. And, so I use sex to like, validate this image of myself that I didn't really have and I use drugs in the same way just to feel cool. And I had to actually really learn how to separate sex from self-worth for me. To have sex just be something that I enjoyed that could connect me to a partner that could be good for my hormones and my immune system. And also, but not to be something that I derive my sense of value from.

And it took me a really long time before I think I used to think that good sex was just being desired. And now good sex is a lot more about the connection of the sex. Okay, what about weird sex stuff? Like threesomes, polyamory, anal, tying people up. What do we do that's weird? Why am I? She's the single one. So Adi and I have been together for a really long time.

I can't even add anymore. It's like at least 15 years. Yeah, we met when I was 20 and I'm 35 today. So 15 years, we met 15 years ago. And, you know, I was the like, had one boyfriend for five years and he is an ex meth addict who had been to jail and is eight years older than me. So I'll let your imagination. Yeah, he knows some shit. His best friends were strippers.

So, yeah, literally. Because he was like the man. He was the drug dealer. Like, that's what you do. You're like best friends of strippers. So I didn't know him then. He's very different now. He's a dad of three and PhD psychologist.

But he, you know, he uses all of that history to be who he is now. And he's so profound and healing with his clients because of that history. And he's brought so much insight and, um, trust for me, I was so unexperienced sexually.

So I was like, I was 20 years old and I've been with one part. partner. And we went through so much in the first few years that there wasn't really a lot of play. But after we healed all of that and we were into our marriage and had a few children, I'd say when I was 28 is when I like really hit the healing, the most healing moments and felt like the most in my power and embraced my female like sexuality. And that's like when it started. It was around 28. So I mean, when you're with someone and having sex with them for 15 years, Like, you have to get, have fun and spice it up.

We've tried, like, just about everything. Like, we've brought other people into our relationship, other women, specifically. We love to play and love to, like, just explore and be open. We do Molly, like, four or five times a year. And that's, like, our Molly is MDMA in case you don't know. And we get it from a really safe source. We test it. And that's, like, our way.

I'm not really a big drinker. I don't really smoke weed. I don't really have a lot of other releases like that, but MDMA has been really healing for me. And we can talk about that more if we get into like a drug conversation. But that's my thing. That's like it was meant to be here to heal me from all of my past traumas. It allows me to drop all of the inhibitions and all of the like the wound upness of being through trauma. It's used a lot in psychiatry with PTSD clients that have been through war,

or been through PTSD incidents or things that have caused PTSD. It's used in coupleships and it has been since the 80s. So it's something that's really been a gateway for me to healing from my own traumas and the ones within our relationship. So we've, yeah, we've brought in other women. We've tried just about everything sexually because of his past history. There's a lot of wound up energy there. So he like doesn't want to do things that he did with past people.

and I'm like, tie me up, bitch. Like, let's get this going. But it's like, he has his own traumas, right? Like, he has his own stuff where he's like, well, this is what I did with that person. And I feel like bad bringing that into here. And I'm like, do not feel bad. Like, we don't have much time. Like, hurry up.

So we're still like, I feel like we're still kind of amateurs, honestly. Like, we, I think I kind of bring a lot of that energy of, like, innocence and purity. And, like, I really don't know a lot of what I'm doing. I'm open and I trust him. So it's fun. But also we have really busy lives. We don't have a lot of time. Like four times a year we're like doing crazy things. Then the rest of the time we're just normal moms and dads and business people. So I think we have a long road to go. And like I'm like, let's accelerate this. But we're open. We're, you know, we're excited about the possibility. But we also just have so much weight in like whatever the karma is this lifetime. There's a lot there

sexually. And I think the most important thing for me, what I realized recently is that my default, unfortunately, is to close up and to go inward and to be defensive when it comes to sexuality. And then I need to remind myself to be more open because that's the, that's like I need that to be the new default, but it's going to take a lot of reengineering. When you bring other women in and have threesomes, do you get jealous at all, especially given Adi's past history and how do you deal with that? So usually the women that we have been with, there's a trust. So they're usually just people that I'm very, very close to.

Like I have to feel, it's all about me. So for him, it's like, he's already had lots of experiences. He's not like, ooh, I wonder what that would be like. Like, he's already had all of those experiences. So it's all about I'm the center of everything. It's as long as I feel safe and I feel excited and I feel happy. That's what makes the whole thing exciting. It's not about him.

he's not like, ooh, she's hot. Like, he will if I say she is. Like, it's much more about trust and me being the one that gets excited and turned on and open because it takes so much to get me there. So when I do, then it's about me and opening up in that way. We have only had one threesome where we had sex. The rest of the time, it's just very playful. And it's not about having sex. Like, I don't.

And we have a hard rule now after that one incident where we went too far. I was trying to make it an exciting night and be cool. And I was like, oh, I'm going to set up this whole thing. And I set up a threesome and like she wasn't my type. She's lovely, bless. But she wasn't my type. And the whole arrangement here is that it's about me and me feeling free and excited and happy and at peace. And I didn't.

She wasn't, I wasn't into her. And so we went through with it. And I'm like, oh, I'm just going to like do it anyway and force myself. And then it wasn't good. And I felt really jealous and I spiled out of control and all my past. stuff came up and it was really not cool, but it also taught us a lesson. A, it's not the end of the world if you make a mistake. And because I have children, I was like, oh my God, she's going to ruin us. And definitely not, didn't happen. Wasn't her intention. We just had fun. And it was fun, but I did

spiral out of control afterwards. I was like, you're going to leave me for her and like all the craziness. But now I know, like, that's a hard no. We don't have sex with someone else. We can play. we can kiss, we can explore and have fun and feel good and dance, but it's like, it's not about having sex. That's an intimate thing between us and that's just for us. But in my world, I have to make mistakes to learn my lessons. So that's where I have the greatest learning is like, oh, that was a hard no. Cool.

Now I know. I'll do that better next time. Well, I will say that for me, it has to be more of like a safe place. So if I'm doing kind of the more like weird, like I don't really. believe in taboo, but if you want to say like taboo, sexual stuff, it definitely has to be with a partner that I know and trust and that I've been with for a while. I had an ex-boyfriend more recently who was way more exploratory than I am. I'm kind of in the similar boat as she is where I feel a little bit more like, because of my past, maybe a little bit more like pure and

kind of an amateur and it's been kind of a newer thing for me where I feel like I've been more sexually wakened in the last like couple years. And it kind of for me really takes a partner who makes me feel safe and who opens the door to be like, hey, let's try this, let's do that. I'm the kind of person where I'm pretty much game for like anything, as long as I trust you and know you. I want to at least try everything once. And if it's fun, then like, let's keep doing it.

Definitely love being tied up. That's like really fun. Kind of like role play stuff a little bit. That gets kind of tricky because past a certain point. I'm like, okay, I don't like feel this anymore really. But I'm like, okay, let's just like you're, yeah, exactly. I'm like, let's just fucking get to it already. Yeah, that kind of stuff.

Vibrators, definitely. I love bringing vibrators into the mix. There's one in particular, two, that you can literally, like, use inside you while you're having sex and it's, like, incredible. It's called We Vibe, if you guys want to check it out. Yeah, a big fan of vibrators. So we've had one threesome, and it was actually pretty good. I would say we would have more, but I don't know how to do it.

Like, I feel like we always, like, it's really hard. We'll go to bars sometimes. And it's, I think of it as like a fun team building activity to be like, oh, that girl's really hot. Yeah. And like hit on her together or something. But like I, does he talk to her? Do I talk to her?

Like, we once had like, oh, Sophie has thoughts. It's also hard because like all the apps connect to your Facebook page. This is my problem. I'm like, he's like, let's just connect to an app. And I'm like, no. Like, I don't want my Facebook picture up on there, you know? Well, and also, okay, so our thing is I want to have a threesome, but I want to have a threesome with somebody who maybe has never had a threesome before. And they're just so smitten by me and Zach that they, like, can't help themselves.

So, yeah, it's like a fantasy of mine. And that happened with the one time we did it. The girl literally, like, we met her at a party and then she, like, went back to, we had, like, vibes at the party. And then we invited her out on a date. And we got, like, we had some champagne. and like went to this pizza place. And then she like went back to her house and laid on our bed and was like,

I've never done this before, but you can do anything you want to me. And we were like, okay. But for me, that ruined the app thing because I don't want like a girl who's trolling for it. You know, I want my like virginal image of my threesome partner, which is perhaps unfair.

It's definitely unfair. But yeah, so I just, I think we would do it more if we under, or if we moved in those like circles or something. I don't know. Yeah. Oh my gosh. if somebody wanted to write, like, how to have a threesome.

There's a bunch of underground things. Like, we haven't really, we've, like, dipped a toe. But there's throughout our years, there's, like, parties where, like, basically everyone's vetted. And you can't be a single guy that goes. So sorry if you're going to bring a guy in. But it's, like, women, like, they have to get kind of approved. And it's couples that are approved and women. So single women can go.

And then if you're in a relationship, you can go. But you have to be approved. And then there's no alcohol is allowed, but it's bring your own. And yeah, they're at like beautiful homes like in the Hollywood Hills and you have to be approved. We went a few times, but it was too soon for me. Like we went and I forced myself. I remember like drinking tequila. I'm just like trying to get comfortable.

And I just was not. And like a girl hit on me. And I was like, but I just wasn't, I just wasn't ready. And like I think now like now I'm excited by. I'm like, we could go back to one of those, but they're like kind of pretentious too, like really expensive. Like, who's got money for this? Like, but yeah, I mean, there's definitely stuff.

If you really look, there's cool things to do, especially in like big cities. You're listening to the healthier together podcast. This episode is sponsored by one of my favorite food brands, love beets. You may have seen them in your local grocery stores produce section. They're in the cute little packages with all the little hearts all over them. We all know how good beats are for us. their anti-inflammatory powers have been shown in study after study after study, but truly they are so messy to prep.

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And I cannot wait to see what you guys make with them. Now let's get back to the episode. So now I feel bad that I've never been invited to one of these sexy. Okay, I need to figure out how to apply to one of these parties. Then I think it's the timing thing. I wish we had more time to sort of devote to sexual play and exploring. And then I also, I'm a, I'm working on my jealousy stuff. I think very early in our relationship, I got really jealous of him a lot.

And I don't anymore because we have 11 years behind. us and I'm just like, how can anybody compete with 11 years? But I want to feel like he thinks I'm the most attractive person on the planet. And I have, I don't think I'm like a hundred percent there and feeling like I'm so stunningly beautiful or my body is like so banging that I want to be side by side like a sex party or something, which actually brings me into my last topic of conversation. We have to wrap this up somewhat soon, but which is body image and self image. And I want to here just sort of your general thoughts on like, do you think you're pretty? If you do, how did you get there? What do you think about your body? What's been your journey with all of that?

I have pretty much always known that I'm beautiful. Like, we all are. And I think, like, especially having kids, it's like we're all born perfectly perfect, unique, special. Like, truly, like, you have a child and then tell me that they're not perfect. Like, it's perfection. And we're all born that way. So I think if there's one thing and my parents did right, it's they taught me that. Like I am perfect. I am beautiful. And no matter what, if I'm 10 pounds heavier or 10 pounds lighter or older or younger, I'm going to know that. And I actually, we were interviewing someone for our Ignited podcast last week. And it was a super spiritual dude. And we, I like took out my phone and text message my mom and my dad and just thanked

them. I've never text messages them together, by the way. They're divorced and definitely don't talk anymore. And I just wrote them and I was like, there's like for all the things I'm annoyed of and frustrated with, like there's one thing for sure that you guys did, right? And it's instilling a sense of confidence in me. Like, I know that within my soul, everything's going to be okay. And I think that that's, you know, that's the deeper thing. It doesn't matter about what you look like on the outside. I know that everything's going to be okay. Like, things can get tough, but everything's going to be okay. And I know that within my core. So I think that it's, I think it's parenting. I think it's environmental. I think there's so many factors, but we are born perfect. We're born perfectly

imperfect. However you want to put it, we are each unique and that's what makes us beautiful. And I do know that. I have a similar feeling in the way that I also feel like my parents had a really good job of instilling a certain confidence in myself that, yeah, no matter what, that I was going to be okay. I very much feel that way as well. But for me, I, when I was younger, I kind of dabbled in like some modeling and stuff when I was in high school. So I really for a long time struggled with body image stuff. I feel like it's really hard to live in the modern world as a woman and not struggle to a certain extent with body image just because we're constantly having, yeah, the, the thought of like, I don't believe in there being a perfect body. I think if you're a woman

and you have a body, you have a perfect body. But I do think that it's hard because it's getting better because of all the body positivity movement, which I love and fully support. But it is hard when you, you know, you scroll through Instagram and there's like this image of like a perfect body that's almost unattainable for most women. And I, I have struggled with that. But I've kind of just, yeah, made my peace with. And what I constantly remind myself is that there's so much more than your looks.

and what I value in a person is their personality, how they show up for me every day. And so for me, I just try to remind myself that I would never expect that out of my friend. Like, I don't care what my friend's body looks like either way. You know, I love her no matter what because of who she is, her personality. And I try to remind myself that anytime I get kind of stuck up on like body image stuff. And that's what really helps me when I struggle with that. So I wish I had more of what you guys have. I think I, I, my parents did a very good job. They're both, you know, intellectual people and they did a

very good job of assuring me that I was smart from a very young age. So I grew up knowing concretely that I was very, very smart. Everything in the world reaffirmed that. But I never thought of myself as, uh, beautiful in any way. And I don't think that they, I don't think they cared about that. You know, I, my dad still literally doesn't notice if women like wear makeup or get a new outfit or like he just doesn't, it doesn't process in that way. I was asking him, because he's dating now. And I was like asking him if he's attracted to older women. And he was just like, a body is just like a body.

Like he didn't understand the question. So they just never did that for me. And I had a lot of self-esteem issues about what I looked like and putting a lot of value into being like the funny person and the smart person and all that. And I think I worked through that in like my early 20s. and I thought I did a pretty good job of it. And then I started to be on camera more and it really messed with my head. I'm a food person. I eat for a living, essentially.

And I don't have a body that's like a lot of the girls that you see on Instagram, like I'll see Sophie was doing like a handstand. She was like showing how she got into like a hollowback headstand or something on Instagram the other day. And she's in like her little crop top and leggings. And I was like, I could never feel comfortable wearing something. like that because I have like a softer stomach like I think I'm at a healthy happy weight for my body but I don't have abs at all I have hips I have a softer body and that just is my body and I'm still very much in the process of working on being comfortable with that in front of the

camera especially or like you know if I have a double chin in a video shoot or something like that and everybody's just like that's your face and I'm like well yeah but I'm comparing myself constantly to other people who have different. Oh, Sophie's going to give me wisdom. The more that I start to, like, there's a direct correlation between comparing myself and the way I feel. And when I compare myself, the worse I feel. I throughout the years, I don't pay attention to what other people are doing. The minute that I do start paying it, I am like, if I walked down the street with you, this is just my natural inclination. I have no idea. Adi's like, did you just see that purple elephant? I'm like, nope. And it's just not, it's just not. It's just,

just not my, I don't people watch. I don't have that. Like, I'm not good at that. But I also, it's kind of a superpower. Because if I looked around, like, I don't know what people are doing all the time. Like, how are you spending that much energy on other fucking people? Like, I don't even understand. Who gives a shit what she's wearing?

What makes you happy? What fills you up? And truly, like, I know that when I'm feeling shitty, it's because I was scrolling on Instagram comparing myself to other people. or I was reading magazines that don't serve me. Like, I don't get self magazine anymore because I don't want to see those bodies. They don't make me feel good. And I don't buy those things at the magazine shop at the airport.

Like, I know what makes me feel good. And it's people that love me for me, my children, my husband, myself. The more time I spend alone and in nature, the better I feel about myself. And those are the things that I want to prop up and support and do more of is be around those types of people, be by myself, go out nature. And if at any, I'm around women all the time that are hot as fuck. Like, I am around beautiful yogis and ex cheerleaders. And, but guess what? They love themselves. And they're naked and they don't give a shit. And they're all just like a commune together. And it doesn't matter because it's not about that. It's not sexual energy. It's not like I'm prettier than this

person or I know I'm badass. They're just like, I love myself. That's it. And the more that you tell yourself that you're beautiful and the more you spend time with people like that, That's what you're going to attract. If you're comparing yourself and worried about, like, are you wearing the cool thing? Are you doing? Like, this is a breastfeeding outfit. Like, I don't give a shit. I got given this patchy jean jacket.

And, like, it just doesn't matter. Like, it just doesn't matter. What matters is that you feel good. And that's the bottom line is that you feel. So figure out the things that make you feel good, which might be different than my things that make me feel good. But I know if I didn't get out of nature this week or this day or if I didn't go outside barefoot or if.

or if I didn't put my feet in the grass, I'm not going to feel aligned. If I feel aligned and I feel good, then I will feel good about myself. If I don't and I'm inside wasting my life away, comparing myself or watching reality TV or what, none of those things are going to serve you and make you feel better by yourself. None of them. If they do, then do them, but I can pretty much promise you they won't. The things that make you feel good are natural, real, love, kindness, telling yourself good thoughts, journaling, time alone. Like, those are the things that make you feel good. And going to therapy, which is something I feel very strongly about being very open about.

I see a therapist once a week and it has truly transformed me as a human being and really helped me learn how to show up for myself and then in turn show up for other people. It's interesting what you say about being sort of ignorant, like in an ignorance as bliss state because I think since I've been a professional writer since I was 16 years old, I've been doing nothing but honing my skills of observation constantly. And I think when that turns on myself, that can be tricky. I find the thing that's most helpful for me is spending as much time like casually naked as possible, honestly, I think, and not looking at yourself through Instagram and through

photos, but like just looking down at my body as it is. And I think we all get a very false perception of what even ourselves are supposed to look like with the Instagram filters and stuff like that. And they've, they've done really interesting studies that show that you will start to be disappointed with your own reflection in the mirror if you keep using that stuff because you just become not used to what you actually look like, which I think is really, really sad. Yeah. So I try to get in touch with what I actually look like and be like, I love all of these parts of me. Also dancing naked. I love dancing naked. It's like my favorite, favorite thing to, if I'm feeling if having a shitty body, I just turn on

the music really loud and I dance around my house naked with my cat. Yeah, she's a good eye. She doesn't like when I sing. She tries to attack me when I sing, but it's okay when I dance. Does anybody have any questions? We'll talk about anything, as you guys might have guessed. Yeah, in the front. The question was, what is your favorite part of your job? And maybe let's say your least favorite too, just for fun. The favorite part of my job is connecting with all of you, like just connecting with real human beings, making human connections, meeting up for events. Just connecting, like, even through DM, like I answer all my DMs and, like, psycho about it. Yeah, just connecting, connection and connecting with the peeps, my peeps. Least favorite. And to tag on that, I love every part of what I do.

As long as I'm not overworked and I'm good about my boundaries, I love every part. I love taking photos. I like, I love, you know, dressing up. I love, you know, the email. I love the connection. I love the jobs. I love the long shoot days. Like, I love every part of what I do. And the minute that I don't is when I'll stop and do something else. And that's how it is with everything in my life from my own relationship. If a D and I show up to each other and we're like, yeah, I don't love this anymore. We're like, bye. Like, that's our understanding is we're in this full on until we're not anymore. And if one of us isn't in love, then we're moving on and going to wish the best to the other and support that. Same thing goes for all of the jobs I do. If something doesn't fulfill me or bring me joy, I'm walking away.

And least favorite, again, it's just when it gets too much. And that's my own fault for not having better boundaries. I would say my least favorite is having to wear all the hats. I love the creative side. But having to do all of the back-in invoices, the back-and-forth, figuring out the deal, that kind of stuff is really tough. And it's just really not something that I'm good at. I love kind of what she was saying. I love being able to connect with people.

And also, I mean, I wake up every day just really. grateful that I get to do something I'm super passionate about, which makes me really grateful. And also, I mean, just to be really transparent, I love being able to build my own schedule every day. It's really nice. It's really empowering to be able to be fully in charge of my life. So I have a number of different jobs, and my schedule has shifted drastically since I stopped working full time. So I'd say from my writer's side, my favorite part of what I do is getting to tell stories and see the world in sort of a narrative way and piece things together. and ask what this means.

Like, what does this experience mean? What does this product mean? Why? And then also, as a writer, you get access to incredible minds. And I think it's so cool to be able to have questions and be able to call up the people who will give me answers. I think a lot of that knowledge is reflected in my books and my work generally. And I just feel so privileged that I get to have that access to explore the things that I'm

really interested in as a writer. As a cookbook author and the Healthyer Together podcast and all of that, I would say the community again. I would say that it's both the community I get to experience. I always tell people that when I'm leaning into the social part of social media versus the media part of social media, I feel much, much, much better. So if I'm talking to people, if I'm asking about their lives instead of just being like, thanks for the compliment on my cookie-dough banana bread, you know. But I'm like, you know, what are you doing? What are you up to? And I have really intense conversations with people in my DMs. But then I also think that I'm such an advocate of

community. I think that we're our dearth of community is one of the biggest problems in today's society. I think that it's not a surprise that levels of depression and anxiety have gone up as we've continued to isolate ourselves more and more. So I would also say one of my favorite parts of my job is getting to spread the message of the importance of community. Healthier together is all about community. And the fact that we are healthier and happier, the more we build the relationships in our lives. So I would say both of those things are my favorite. Least favorite is 100% food photographer. I fucking hate it. I love developing recipes.

I love writing cookbooks because somebody else comes in and shoots it all. But like it's so frustrating to me when I make a recipe that I feel like is really killer and really good. And then I have like shitty light in a tiny New York apartment. And I'm like literally struggling with it so hard. And then not knowing what people are, I can be like, this is a great recipe. But because I don't have a great photo for Instagram, nobody will ever know it's a great recipe and it drives me banana. So if anybody ever just wants to come and like shoot my photos,

I would love it. Yeah, do we have another question? Oh, in the back and then in the front. Hi, Tanya. So the question is we're all very free and open conversationally, obviously. How do we deal when we're confronted by people who are not as free and open, particularly in the arena of sex? So my husband and I have our United Podcast. We are very public about. who we are, as you know, as a listener. And what has helped us heal in our relationship from all the trauma has been radical transparency. And that's what we advocate. So we're in a place now where I don't think there are any people in our life.

Thank God that don't know who we are. And I'm sure there's people that I'm forgetting about that we don't see anymore that choose that. because we're intense and we're full on. And that's beautiful for us and probably for them maybe one day. But right now it's scary. So we don't see them anymore. And I'm never, ever, ever for the rest of my life going to pretend that I'm someone other than who I am and feel ashamed about who I am. What has healed me and my relationship has been being radically transparent and accepting every part to who that is, the good, the bad, the ugly. So I don't even know how the opportunity would come up to share my heart and then someone be like rejecting. Definitely people are scared of it or, you know, we have our own experiences and like how open we are is confrontational.

But we're just here to like shine our light and be who we are and show that like fuck shame, which is his hashtag from his TED talk. And that's all we can do. Like I definitely, I have vulnerability hangovers all the time. I'll have one tomorrow 100%. Thanks, guys. But it's just like, I smoked weed a couple weeks ago and like rarely do. And I got really paranoid. I like three heads instead of two.

So I and I like went in a downroad spiral. And I was like, I can't believe we're so honest and vulnerable. Let's delete the podcast right now. And like I'm deleting my Instagram, like all that stuff. And it's definitely scary to be that raw and vulnerable. But at the same time, we're changing people's lives. And I would so much rather be in this place. where I tell the truth about who I am in every single moment, people will be like, she's weird,

then pretend that I'm someone else, because I'm just being myself. I've also found in situations like that, that the more you open the conversation, the more it opens, it almost gives people that are maybe a little bit more reserved permission to then also talk about that kind of stuff. And maybe right away, they won't respond that well, but I kind of feel like, at least in my experience, I've noticed that maybe initially they'll be a little bit scared, but then they'll come back later and be like, oh, I'm so glad that you brought that up because it kind of gave me the courage to then be honest about my situation, whatever it was. Yeah, I would say that as well.

I think that a lot of times what you perceive as them being uncomfortable might be you being uncomfortable. So I would also say be aware of that. I think even the people who feel the most open, sometimes you can use openness to mask secret shame. Sometimes you can be open about things that like Sophie said, you're like, should I have been open about that? So I would say that check in with yourself about whether that discomfort is actually them or you.

And then also I think, yeah, if you can be yourself, I think a lot of times people will go home later and have a conversation that maybe they did it. And I generally think that the more open, the better and we're only doing good things. Monica? Yeah. I would love to deviate from food. It's actually something I'm struggling with on my Instagram right now is because I want to tell other stories. and I'm worried sort of like, do people only like me for my food? So I've actually written five books and I've published two.

I've written seven, I guess, and I've published two. I publish my first cookbook in this cookbook. But I have five unpublished books, including my first book, which is a memoir I wrote when I was 19 and a book of essays. And I think if I died without having written like a book of essays or something like that, I would be really, really sad. So I don't know what my next book is. if anybody has any ideas, I would love to.

I just, every single one I got an agent for and then every single one, the agent wasn't able to publish. So it wasn't for lack of trying. And I also think the great thing about writing is you only get better at it as you get older because you have more life experiences. So if anybody has any good ideas, please let me know. Maybe threysms. Yeah, maybe a whole book about how to guide to threesome's. But I definitely am, I view myself as a writer first and

foremost. And my writing right now is being funneled into food and wellness, which has a huge part of my heart. But I'm open to being a writer and whatever iteration that is for the rest of my life. Last question. The blonde. Okay. So self-publishing, I have a lot of thoughts on self-publishing. I think it's interesting. I would always recommend people go with a traditional publisher, at least initially, because it's sort of a stamp of validation. And I think a lot of people assume if you've self-published that you couldn't get that stamp of validation, not that you didn't want it. So I'm a big advocate because I do think you can make more money in self-publishing, especially if you have a very strong personal brand. But I would always

encourage people to do their first book with a major publishing house. And then they get that stamp of validation. And then if you want to self-publish, you can. But I also think it's a lot of work to do a book. And I also think a lot of people don't think they need editors and they really, really need editors. and I'm a professional writer and I've benefited immensely from having an editor. So if you're self-publishing, I don't think you're just asking, do I want to make this money? You're asking yourself, do you want to do all your marketing, all your publicity, all of your editing, all of your packaging and design?

And having a traditional publisher that can help with all of that, I think is really useful. All right. Well, thank you guys so much for coming out tonight. As I said, this one. we'll all be available on the healthier together podcast in a few weeks. So subscribe so you don't miss that. And you can find Sophie on Instagram at Sophie.jafy. Courtney is at Real Foodology.

And she also has an excellent episode of the Healthier Together podcast. So you guys should listen to do. She talks more about therapy and our whole, if you want to know how to become a rock star nutritionist. That's great. And healthier together recipes for two is available wherever books are sold, including anthropology, which I'm very proud of. And yeah, thanks so much for coming up.

All right. I told you guys that was going to be a lot. I hope you guys liked it. I hope I'm not going to regret releasing this later. I don't think I will. I think I'm going to feel really good about putting all of this out into the world. As always, if you like the podcast, if you enjoyed this episode, I'm massively appreciative for every five-star rating that you guys do on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.

And if you want to write a little note about why you like it or what you're connecting to, I read all of those. They make me cry. They make me so happy. So massively appreciate all of that. And thank you guys so much. I love you and have a great day. The mattress that you sleep on is one of the highest exposures that you have.

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