The Liz Moody Podcast - Thriving Through Anxiety—Alex from The Defined Dish on How Having Kids Impacts Anxiety, Fear of Flying, and the Books and Practices that Help the Most

Episode Date: August 25, 2021

Today, we have a brand new episode of Thriving Through Anxiety featuring the lovely Alex Snodgrass. Alex is the NYTimes best-selling author of The Defined Dish and the upcoming The Comfort Kitchen, and the woman behind the hugely successful blog and Instagram The Defined Dish. On this episode, we talk about: her anxiety journey how having kids impacted her anxiety  her thoughts around medication and anxiety how she manages her anxiety-related vertigo the books, tools, and practices that have helped with her anxiety the most  what she eats to help with her anxiety how she helps her husband and friends help her through harder times  how social media and cancel culture impact her anxiety the FIRST thing you should do to feel better when you’re feeling anxious exactly how she overcame her fear of flying Whether or not you have anxiety, I hope you’re touched by Alex’s amazing story. I’d love to hear thoughts you have as you’re listening, so definitely screenshot and tag @lizmoody and @thedefineddish. PS: My Patreon is live! You can join Green Smoothie Society and get access to ALL of my green smoothie recipes and advice AND you can subscribe to A Very Moody Morning, my brand new morning show podcast, which drops once weekly and features casual, fun convo, super intimate Q&As, and more. Get all the deets at patreon.com/lizmoody. This episode is sponsored by Seed, the makers of one of my all-time favorite supplements. Their Seed Daily Synbiotic is a game changer—it contains both pre- and probiotics, survives INTACT all the way into your gut, AND contains the most studied and powerful strains of probiotics out there. You can get 15% off of your first month’s supply of Seed’s Daily Synbiotic by going to seed.com and using the code LIZMOODY. This episode is sponsored by Kyoto Botanicals, the first CBD brand I’ve recommended on this podcast! Right now, I’m loving their Breathe tincture, which is lemon ginger flavored and massively helps with my anxiety, and the Warmth balm, which is so helpful for headaches and sore muscles. You can get a whopping 25% off your order (AND they always have free shipping!) by using the code “HEALTHIERTOGETHER” at kyotobotanicals.com. This episode is sponsored by Paleovalley, who make incredibly high quality supplements. If you’d like to check out their Turmeric Complex, Vitamin C, Neuroeffect, or any of Paleovalley’s other amazing products, head over to paleovalley.com and use the code LIZM for 15% off.  Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So friends and welcome back to the Healthier Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a cookbook author and long-time journalist. Today's episode is another edition of Thriving Through Anxie, and I will tell you all about my amazing guest in just a sec. But first, you may have seen my video all about my life motto, never be the one to say no to yourself. It got like millions of views, which was kind of a trip. Anyway, one of my Patreon fan members requested that I talk about my motto in more depth.

So if you head over to patreon.com slash Liz Moody and listen to the latest episode of a very moody morning, you can hear all about how I developed the philosophy and how I've used it to get raises, my two book deals, my husband, and more. And if you're like, what the heck is a very moody morning? It is my new secret, super intimate podcast. It's 20 minutes long, drops once a week. It's super casual and chatty and is like hanging out with my friends in me in real life, talking about the meaning of life, achieving our dreams, sex, celebrity gossip.

Nothing at all is going to change here. In fact, I have super exciting news about this pod that I'll be sharing in September that will make it even better. But if you want me at my most vulnerable, the stuff that I am literally too nervous to share with thousands of people, head over to patreon.com slash Liz Moody. All right, today's pod. I am so excited to have on Alex Snodgrass of the defined dish for my newest episode of Thriving Through Anxiety.

Alex is the New York Times bestselling author of The Defined Dish and the upcoming The Comfort Kitchen and the woman behind the hugely successful blog and Instagram, The Defined Dish. This series is all about how incredible people have thrived through anxiety and even tapped into it as their superpower. And on this episode, Alex talks about how having kids impacted her anxiety in both good ways and bad, which you know that I was very interested in as somebody who is undecided about the subject and trying to accumulate all of the information possible in the world. She talks about her thoughts on medication, what she eats to help with her anxiety, the books that have been the

most useful for anxiety journey, and so much more. Quick note, I recorded the first two-thirds of the interview and then I heard Alex go into her fear of flying in more detail on Instagram. So I called her up and I got her back on the pod because I had so many. questions about how she overcame one of my personal biggest fears. So stick around after the first interview because we did a little quickie all about that. And Alex shared some amazing lessons that apply to larger anxiety and I think just life in general too. As always, Alex and I would love to hear what's resonating with you as you listen. So tag me. I am at Liz Moody and she is at the defined dish. And if you want to check out the first episode of the series, just scroll back in

the feed. It's with freckled foodie and veggie kins. And it is one of my favorite. episodes ever. And if you have anyone in your life who is dealing with anxiety, please send them this episode. I think it is such a powerful message that you can have anxiety and have it be a beautiful, important part of your story. Okay, I love you. You are beautiful. Let's get into the episode. Hi, Alex. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to do this. I'm so excited to get into, I have so many questions for you, But let's start off. Can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do? Yeah, of course. So I'm Alex Snodgrass, like you said. And I am on Instagram and on the interwebs and

known as the defined dish. I have a food blog that's kind of centered around healthier cooking, easy weeknight dinners. I also am a cookbook author of The Defined Dish. You would have guessed it. Same name. And it's just really a place where I can share tips and tricks on just being able to cook in the kitchen and bringing back the love in the kitchen and lots of healthy recipes. So that's really kind of the gist. I can obviously go to more detail if that's too generic, but you tell me. Well, and your cookbook, I just want to say, is phenomenal. And it was a phenomenal success, too. It was one of those cookbooks that sort of broke through and everybody was obsessed with. And it was just a really beautiful piece of work.

Thank you. Yes. I was super excited with the success. It had been a New York Times bestseller and people are still cooking out of it. So that makes me happy. Amazing. Amazing. Okay.

So we'll talk about, I think the food element of anxiety is really interesting. So we'll get into that in a little bit. But I'd love to start out by just, can you tell me a little bit about your anxiety journey? Like, do you remember when you started feeling? And I sometimes think recognizing and feeling is a little different. Like when you started feeling and recognizing that you had anxiety. For sure. You know, I think growing up, I was always a quote unquote worrier, even as a kid.

But I never necessarily had that panicky anxiety feeling. I think I was anxious about things, but not like necessarily. I mean, I know that's kind of like one of the same on a totally different scale. But growing up, I was just kind of always a warrior and worried. about, you know, everybody around me and what was going on and, you know, big life changes or track meets or anything that was kind of scary. I tended to be a little bit more debilitated by it than like my friends growing up. But I didn't really experience my first anxiety attack. I know exactly where I was and when until I was in my 20s. So my husband and I kind of to

backtrack. We at 24 found out that we were pregnant unexpectedly. We had been dating for a while, so we of course chose the path like, okay, we're just going to kind of fast forward our lives a little bit. We're going to have a baby sooner than we thought. And we're going to get married a little bit sooner than we thought. And we did all that. And it was right after I had set in my first that I went on my batch, the rep party. It's my first trip away from my daughter. And kind of my first time to like drink and stuff since I had a kid. And I think I was struggling with like the roots of anxiety that I didn't know we're already there, but also a little bit of postpartum tossed and peppered in there. And on that trip, I had depilitating anxiety attack where I thought I was dying.

I was like, I can't breathe. Something's wrong with me. I didn't know that sensation. Luckily, I had a really good friend there with me that has struggled with anxiety. She was like, I promise you, you're just having an anxiety attack. Like, you're going to. a limb, you will be okay. And it was after that that it just kind of grew on itself and I didn't really know how to manage it or handle it. And that's whatever I kind of started to go into a doctor about it and just started to play with, okay, how do I get to a place where I can manage this? Because it was a totally new thing for me. And that was in 2013, I'd say. So that was really my first big experience with anxiety. And from there, it's just, you know, of course, been a journey

of learning and we can get to all those little things. But that was really where my anxiety kind of stem from was just kind of at a younger age, new mom, already a worrier, getting away from my kid for the first time, but also kind of being out of touch with myself. I think when my husband and I had Sutton, it was a big transition, of course. But also we packed up our lives. from Austin and I left my job at the time, which wasn't anything super serious that I don't think I would have stayed with forever. But it was definitely like the path that I was going on to move back to the DFW area to be closer to family. And then it was like, okay, what am I going to do next? So I was kind of like trying to figure out myself too. So there was just a lot of things that stimulated

whenever my anxiety got to its peak, basically. And you so you started seeing a professional then. And did you also go on medicine or medication at the time? I did. And I still have medication for like kind of emergency use back pocket. You know, it just makes you feel better to happen. Yeah, me too. I literally have the same container. It's like a little security blanket.

I have like four pills left in it. And I think it's like maybe they could almost be expired. Like they're so old. But I just like will not part with it because it's my little safety blanket. For sure. And I'd say I still I still go to the same psychiatrist to get those pills like once a year. and I can get through an entire year with 30 when sometimes still have leftovers. So it's really just there for a security blanket.

But I got on medicine at that time as well. I didn't ride off the bat. I kind of was like, okay, that was a really bad anxiety attack that to move forward. And it wasn't until I'd say like six months later that I really hit a stage where I was having it every day for like two weeks straight. And I was like, oh my gosh, now I literally can barely get out of bed. and I'm so miserable. And that's really when I started going to see a doctor and got medicated to really help. I think it was a really important step in my battle with anxiety to just like be able to get out

of like my head to even be able to take care of myself to learn to manage my anxiety through all the other more natural approaches as well. So that's kind of more or less how I started to go to the doctor just because it was the first attack and then it was a couple little ones peppered into there and then it got really bad. I'd say like in October of that year and this probably happened like in the springtime, my first anxiety tag, that I was just like, okay, I can't, I can't function. This is not okay. What do I do? What is your relationship with medication anxiety? I think a lot of people who have anxiety feel a lot of shame around medication or they're nervous. I personally have like hypochondriical thoughts around medication.

and what is your relationship with that? You know, for me, I think, like, obviously medicine exists for a reason and there, it's, it's there to help you. And if you're in a place where you are just completely debilitated where you don't even know where to start, but also, this is just, in my opinion, or also just nothing else is working, I think it's there for a reason to help you. And like, whatever you have to do to be the best person of yourself is obviously, of utmost importance in my opinion.

And so for me, when I did get on the medication, and this is how I feel about with anything that I do. It's not just anxiety. I'm like, okay, if I have to take medication because this is what's going on with me, what are some other things that I can be doing to support that so that perhaps I might be able to get off that medication? And I really try to do that with everything in my life. And that's kind of my mindset around medication in general.

So it's like, okay, if this is obviously. a core issue, what other things can I be doing to support that to help to help manage that anxiety. And with that, with time, I was like, oh, I don't need the medicine anymore. And now again, like I said, I still have it. And I have no qualms taking it when I need to. But I just don't need it that much because I've learned whenever I have that sensation of like, okay, it's starting to creep in again. I need to make sure I, you know, do these things that I've found really help me manage my anxiety so that I don't get to that point that I got when those two weeks straight went and I was just absolutely miserable. I'd love to talk. I want to talk about the things you're doing,

obviously. But when you say you were really miserable for those two weeks, I'm curious how your anxiety actually manifested. Like I think it feels different for different people. For you, is it physical? Is it racing thoughts? Like, what's happening? I'd say a little bit of both. I think for me, I'll just get to the point where I'll get racing thoughts and I feel like I can't catch my breath. I feel kind of numbness all over and I just kind of just feel like a little bit out of body and skitsy about it. I'm just like, oh my gosh, I can't like get this feeling to go away. And I feel like anxiety is such a hard thing to explain now that I'm trying to do it. But it is. But I think it's also so interesting like I used to have.

I mean, I still do. I get stomach aches for, and they, for a long time, I was like, oh, like, what's wrong with my gut? I need to heal my gut. And then I realized that they were anxiety completely. Like, they're, they're just anxiety. And I think often we can have these symptoms of anxiety and not have any clue that that's what anxiety is. For sure. And now I've started to get to where my anxiety will kind of come in new little creative ways. So fun. So crafty. And lately. which I do think it's some other things as well. But I've started to experience vertigo. And it really, it stimulates some from vestibular issues and neck issues. But also when I'm stressed, that's whenever it just sky rockets.

And I'm like, okay, stress and anxiety on top of like some underlying vestibular issues are just a horrible match made in heaven. And I will get vertigo now from it. And that's been a new thing for me that I've just started experiencing within the last year that I'm learning to manage and try to control as well. What's been helpful with that? You know, for me, I, well, first of all, I think with the type of anxiety that I have, the most important thing for me is to make sure that nothing else is more seriously wrong so that I can get that out of my head. because I am very fatalistic when I have that anxiety. I tend to think I'm, you know, have a brain tumor or something really ridiculous or

and I'll go down that track. So for me, just going to get checked out, I went and had a lot of blood work done, went to my practitioner and just like kind of the general like, hey, you're, you're fine. There's nothing like seriously wrong with you. And then from there, I started going to my, I have a functional medicine doctor that I go to here in Dallas that has really helped me a lot. And I found him throughout this vertigo journey. Some people had recommended him. And he's kind of an all around person who's really helped me. He helps patients like after they've been in a car accident, kind of get, you know, their head back.

And so because it's a vestibular issue in my neck, he treats it with chiropractic care and some vestibular therapy. And that's helped me tremendously. What other tools are you, are sort of in your toolbox. Like I would love to know what you've tried that's been sort of a game changer and really worked. And then I'd also love to know things that you've tried that have been like meh, that you're like, well, that didn't help at all. For sure. I think for me, the things that are the most valuable is slowing down. And just, you know, I grew up in a small town. And sometimes I feel like with how fast-paced the world is in general, it's overwhelming for all of us. But I grew up being at home a lot.

We didn't have restaurants and we weren't going. It was like after school and after all of our activities, even though we were busy, being at home at the end of the day and having dinner around the dinner table was the norm. And so when we're constantly going and going and I don't have that decompression with like with my family at the end of the day, that is huge for me. So I like to make sure like our social calendar as far as like the end of the day goes throughout the week. We don't overcommit ourselves because that really throws me down big time.

I think exercise is also very important. And, you know, I think a lot of people are like, oh, you should do yoga. That really helps. And for me, that helps a little bit. But I really found, like, the way that I like to move my body is just more of like sprinting and lifting weights. And that's the type of athlete that I am. So I've really found a gym that kind of caters to that and workouts that cater to that style of working out that really like moves my body in a way that I think my body was built to do. And so that's been really good for me as well. And then of course, the eating component I think is the biggest and the cutting out the alcohol and sugar. I think sugar has been one that I've realized is I'm very sensitive to. And I, my like neurologically, I react to

it. I notice it more whenever I have a lot of sugar or a lot of alcohol. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. When I worked as a magazine editor, I wrote more than a thousand articles about turmeric because pretty much all of the doctors that I used as sources kept recommending it or citing it is one of the supplements that they would personally take. Here's the background. Turmeric is one of the most powerful ways to fight inflammation. In a nutshell, there are two types of inflammation, acute and chronic. Acute inflammation can actually be a good thing. It's one of the ways that your body heals and repairs itself. But when that system goes haywire, we get chronic inflammation, which essentially makes your body feel like it's constantly under attack.

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love chatting about this stuff. Now, let's get back to the episode. So do you do no sugar, no alcohol, or? I wish. So I would say my sugar intake is around my alcohol consumption. I love, I love to booze. I'm not going to lie. My husband and I love having wine at the end of the day, but I just have made it like a thing where I, you know, from like Monday to Thursday, I really don't drink unless like we have a special event or something. And then from there, you know, have like one or two nights where I have, you know, a couple, a couple of drinks. And then other than that, I try to, I just try to keep it at bay. And then as far as like sweets and sugar and all that goes, I try to take that out of, you know,

my everyday foods, like condiments and, you know, things that don't need to have sugar in it that have sugar in it. I definitely focus on taking that kind of stuff out because it's totally unnecessary. And then I'm just not a huge sweet person. So that's pretty easy for me to cut out as far as like desserts go for the most part. Do you get that like next day scariest thing when you drink? Like it's like I feel like it's like not quite a hangover, but it's like I just feel more. Yeah. Totally. Yes. If I if I were to over drink, yes, I will get Sunday scaries or whatever you call it. Yeah. I feel like they need. My friend, she stopped drinking entirely, but she called it the fear like all in caps. And she was like I was I got the fear yesterday. But it became so intense for her that it actually made her. stop drinking, which I think is interesting. I think the alcohol question is interesting because I also enjoy alcohol. I call myself an intentional drinker now because I enjoy alcohol, but I have been

noticing more and more how not good it makes me feel. So I'm trying to really not just have it because it's, you know, a Wednesday night and I had a rough day or something like that to consume it with a little bit more intention. Absolutely. And that's, I really kind of try to save it for the weekends and relaxing and having fun and unwinding and not working because when I wake up in the morning after I've been drinking, I notice the brain fog. I notice I don't sleep as well. And it just kind of is a slow and steady progression of just not being at my best. I know it's so interesting because when I don't drink for like a week or two, I'm like,

I'm superwoman. Why do I deny myself this feeling? Yes, I do. And then I'll go out with, you know, I went out last night and I had a cocktail and I was like, I know that I'm superwoman when I don't have this, but I still want the cocktail. You know, it's such an interesting relationship. Yes, and my relationship with the ebbs and flows for sure. Like when I was in my peak of anxiety, I definitely cut it out way more than I have it cut out

right now because I'm in a better place with my relationship with anxiety. So it just kind of ebbs and flows. But I know that's one thing. Like if I'm in, you know, a really bad place with my anxiety, that's the first to go. I'm like, all right, no more drinking. But used to, I'd be like, okay, I'm going to drink wine. because I'm feeling anxious. Let's help me calm down. Which is such a vicious cycle. Yes. And it wasn't really until I did a whole 30 that I realized, oh, the not drinking is huge for me.

Do you, you're from a small town. And I think it's interesting that you said that like you're used to this slower pace of life. Do you feel like you're good at relaxing? Like I think sometimes the concept of relaxing almost feels hard for me to grasp in today's world. And I'm curious if growing up in that way, you're more adept at it. I mean, yes and no. I think for the most part, the thing that, like, I think is the biggest difference is the at home, like not going out to eat all the time. I guess would be the main thing of like, like all, you know, on the weekends, like we'll just invite people over to come over for dinner all the time. And that is different to me than going out to eat as, far as like my mental capacity because I'm home and it's like I want to I want to cook the dinner

for everybody. I'm like there's something about the the atmosphere of just like having dinner around the table with people that's like very comforting and soothing for me because that was just like what we did like to go out to eat where I grew up it would have been it's a mission you know we did it and it was fun and we left to go out to eat my parents you know didn't like we didn't like not drive to Dallas to go out to eat but it was just. It was just a different thing. It wasn't like last minute, oh, my gosh, we don't have anything to eat. Let's just go down the street and just, you know, grab dinner. That it was more of like, okay, it's the weekend. Let's go in town for dinner. Like, it's a different thing. I don't know how to describe it. But yes, I think I'm pretty darn good at relaxing. What about in the context of being like, I want to, I just want like your wisdom on this because you're also like you're a high achiever. You publish books. You have a very on career. And I find that I almost, I put all this pressure on myself to be productive and to achieve a lot and to be successful to the point where when I'm in my relaxing mode, unless I'm like almost productively relaxing, like going on a hike or doing something that like that is productively relaxing, I'm beating myself up.

And then if I'm beating myself up, I'll just go on TikTok and scroll for like five hours and then I'll fit worse about myself. And it's this like shitty cycle. So yeah. I'm curious if you, if you're good at relax. Can you help me? For sure. And I think that's the hardest thing about being at home and relaxing in today's day and age is because we do have our phones and we are plugged in all the time to social media.

And that's definitely something that I struggle with. I think all of us struggle with it because it's so new. And we're trying to learn this like healthy balance in relationship with social media and all of the negatives that come from it. But obviously there's some positive aspects as well. but I'd say that's definitely the hardest thing. It's like how do you truly unplug and just sit back and chill? And that's, I think we all have a really hard time with that.

And, you know, this past year, I was finally like hit kind of a bad place with my relationship and social media and everything going on in the world and just like constantly having to be present. And I hadn't since like the day that I started to find just like really just truly unplugged. And I deleted the app for two weeks and it was a really good thing for me to like just kind of hit the reset button with my relationship with social media and my platform and everything. And just realize that like at the end of the day, the most important thing is is that I'm healthy and happy so that I can in turn be a great mom to my kids. And in turn, show up on my page authentically and like share from a place that I'm excited to share from and not from a place of depletion. So being able to hit that reset button, I think is really important right now.

Did you learn anything? Like, did you rediscover old methods of entertainment or like learn to sit with your boredom or like have revelations over those two weeks? You know, over those two weeks, I think it like whenever I started the defined dish, this actually makes you want to start crying. I don't know why I'm emotional today. But I, my favorite thing is cooking. Like I want to have people over. I want to cook. It's what brings me joy. It's what brings me peace.

It's just like it's my love language. It's what makes me so happy. And when I started to find dish, I told myself, I am never going to get to a place where I don't love to cook because then none of this is worth it. And I was starting to get to that place. And I was so upset about it, obviously, because that's what people are all my page to do is to enjoy the joy of cooking with me. And so when I felt that disconnection starting to happen, I had a huge turnaround. where I changed a lot of things about my business over those two weeks. I left the manager that I was with.

I did a lot of things that I knew I needed to do to hit the reset button to continue to do the defined additional way that still brought me joy and that I could still spread joy doing it. And it was just, you know, a personal thing. It wasn't, you know, anything that's bad about the way that some of these managements are running or whatever. But it just wasn't for me. And I was like, I can't operate this way. and I need to hit the reset button.

And over those two weeks, I canceled a lot of my partnerships. I switched my manager. I did a lot of things that I needed to do. And it was people just thought I just took a break. No, I like turned some shit around behind the scenes for my business and for me personally. That's, yeah. I mean, I'm curious, actually, I mean, this series is called thriving through anxiety. I'm curious, in that situation, it seems like your anxiety or your awareness of your

mental health in that way actually was empowered you to make these harder choices or harder decisions in your business, which is, oh, yeah, it's great, you know. For sure. And honestly, I don't think that I would have ever started the defined dish if it wasn't for my journey with anxiety. I think I would have probably taken a job in my family's business. I had started to, right after I had set and get my real estate license and work for my dad. And I always thought that it was what I was going to do. And I quickly found like that wasn't something that was going to make me happy. And I was just so, you know, anxious at the time. I thought like, oh, maybe after I, you know, fix my anxiety, then I can go back and do this. And it was

during that time that I really found that how much I'd love to cook. Then I also kind of discovered like the whole 30 and cooking that way. And I realized I was really good at like making the recipe. that I grew up eating in a whole 30 way or a paleo way and kind of just tweaking the recipe to those types of ingredients. So it was just kind of like this revelation. And I don't think that I would be where I am today without that like debilitating moment in my life where I was like, oh my gosh, how am I going to get over this up? So I've a lot to say too in a weird way. It's interesting too how you're like I was going to like kind of wait until my anxiety was done to do all this stuff. But actually I think you're this beautiful example of like your anxiety isn't have to be done to do all this stuff.

You can kind of channel it towards bringing your whole self using it as as a powerful tool in your business. You don't have to wait until it's like over. Yes, for sure. And I think finding those, those things that make you happy whenever you are struggling with your anxiety and really putting those at the forefront in your life is something that you can find like, wow, I can actually turn this to a business or maybe I just need to take more time to do these things to make myself happier. One thing that you talked about in your blog that I thought was really interesting, I was reading your blog post about anxiety. And you talk about having this series of panic attacks after you'd made these big strides in your anxiety and that sort of feeling of moving backwards.

And I was really intrigued by that because I think there's like often I think success stories in our mental health and our lives and our businesses are portrayed as this like up, up, up climb. Like it just goes forever up. And I don't think it's ever really like that. And I don't think people ever talk about the feelings of working through going up and then back and then up and then back. And I would love to just hear about that experience a little bit. Absolutely. And I think for me, after I had like overcome that like first big stretch of anxiety and I had found all these tools and I'd worked through it all and I was like, I feel great. I did it. You know, you think you're done. And now what I realize now that I'm wiser about anxiety because I've been through the ups and downs of it is,

I think it's always going to be an underlying part of my life that I have to manage and upkeep. And before whenever it would happen, I would just get so upset that it was like happening again. And I'd be like telling my husband like, I just don't know why it's back. Like I'm doing all these things that we're working before. And now it's just like hitting me out of nowhere. And sometimes there's no reason to rhyme for it. Sometimes it's very obvious what the reason and rhymes are. You're like, well, this is going on in my life.

And I know exactly why I'm having anxiety. Sometimes you're just like, why the hell is it here? And so it was one of those things where now, since I've been through, going through my struggles and anxiety for so many years, it's a very inevitable part of my life I've accepted. And I think that that has almost made it easier for me to work through my issues when I do have anxiety again. because I don't get so, like, I'm so mad it's back. Like, I just want to like pout about it. It's more like, okay, what do I need to do to try to get through this right now?

Like, what's going on in my life? Like, let me evaluate this situation and how I can move forward with it rather than just the pissed off that it's back again moment. That makes a lot of sense. I also, I do think it's so important to recognize that sometimes there is like a reason And sometimes it can be this beautiful little spotlight on something in your life you can change. But sometimes there's just literally none. And you can drive yourself crazy being like, oh, should I like tweak my diet or like change my relationship or exercise more?

And it's like, nope, it's just literally like there for no reason. And you're going to make yourself more anxious trying to figure out why you're anxious. For sure. Like last week I was having, I was had a great day where I was so productive and super happy and got so much done in the kitchen. And then like all of a sudden that night I was just like, why am I anxious? Then the next day I started my period. And sometimes mine can be hormonally driven too. And I'm like, what is this happening? And so I realize it has a lot to do with hormones sometimes for me too. And that's never like a huge anxiety attack. But I'm like, oh, what's going on? Like what's coming? And then it comes.

You had your first panic attack when you were hanging out with a bunch of your girlfriends. And you've mentioned your husband a few times. And I'm just curious how your panic attacks or your anxiety have impacted your relationships. Like, is it something where you, embarrassed about it? Did you have to learn how to communicate about it? How did that work? I've never been embarrassed about it with my husband. In fact, I think he's definitely the person that I turned to most. If today I'm at home working and I were to all of a sudden start having debilitating anxiety, and luckily that hasn't happened to me for quite some time. But I know I can always call him and he will drop everything to make sure that like he picks up the slack on

where he needs to and helps me out or just lays with me and just make sure to talk things through with me. So he's been a huge help and support for sure. I don't think that he'll ever fully understand it. I think at first it was really hard to explain to him and my parents and my sister because they've never really struggled with anxiety like I have the sensations that I was having, the feelings that I was having because some people are like, well, that's okay. Like let's just go in a walk. you'll be okay just take a deep breath you know and you're like trust me i've tried all that like nothing's that doesn't do it this is this is deeper than that and so i think it's definitely take time for them to realize that they can't understand it especially my husband but i think that he gets now that he's grasped like

i will never understand exactly how she's feeling but like i'll always like be here to support is is what has been so valuable but at first it was kind of like you know they say all the wrong things not realizing that they're saying all over. Like, yeah, fine. Let's just go outside. Do you tell them, like, what to say? Or, like, have you, is there a way they can be helpful when you're feeling anxious? Um.

Or do you just, like, like, like to be left alone? I think just, like, talking through whatever I'm feeling, I think is, like, the most important to me. I really like to, like, sit down, express how I'm feeling or just, like, cry about it or whatever I need to do and just having that, like, shoulder to lean on and, and, and, And, you know, maybe it is like my sister saying, hey, do you want to go on a walk together? And like, you know, we go on an hour long walk and like, yes, walk does help. I mean, it doesn't necessarily cure it whenever you're like in a really deep funk.

But if you're having mild anxiety, it can definitely help in having those, that support system around you to do those things that they know that helps you. And whenever I was in my throes of anxiety going on walks every day was something that really helped me. So it's something that they know, even though they don't understand it, they know these little. little things that might help and they're always willing to help pick up the slack too. And they're always like, hey, why don't you delete Instagram for the day or whatever it may be? Like, they're super supportive. And even though I don't think that they'll ever understand how I'm necessarily feeling. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. We love talking about our gut health here on the Healthy Together podcast, which is why I'm so excited to share the

life-changing seed daily symbiotic. I actually discovered Seed, back when I was working as an editor full-time, a bottle came across my desk, and I was instantly taken by how cute the green glass packaging is. Then I found out that that packaging was actually refillable so that seed could share its products as sustainably as possible. And then I actually looked into the research behind seed, and well, I was blown away. First of all, seed is not just a probiotic. It is a symbiotic. That means it contains both pre-and-probiotics, which is super important. In fact, if you remember my Asht the Doctor gut health edition, we talked about how prebiotics are one of the most important and often underlooked components of great gut health.

Let me break it down for you. Probiotics are the live bacteria that are so beneficial to our gut health. But prebiotics are the food that those probiotics need to thrive. If you don't have ample prebiotics, the probiotics you're consuming will be undernourished and not be able to help your health in the way that you want. Speaking of your health, there's also a common misconception that probiotics or symbiotics are for people with gut issues, which is so not true. Like, yes, the seed symbiotic is amazing for your gut health, but your gut health impacts everything in your entire body. Your skin, your mental health, your cardiovascular health, your ability to actually assimilate the maximum amount of nutrients from all that healthy

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you can't delete motherhood when you're like when it's making you anxious, it's just always on. How does that work? Like if you're like having debilitating anxiety, you can't be like, well, I don't want to have kids for like a week or two while I work through this. You know, I think it just depends. Like right now, if I were to have like a mild spell of anxiety, which is normally the state that I'm in at this point with my journey with anxiety, I haven't had like a really debilitating moment in quite some time.

I can kind of just be like, hey, mommy's really tired. She doesn't feel very well like go play. My kids are older. So I can be like, can you please go play in the playroom or whatever? And I can communicate with that with them. And I've definitely talked to like my therapist about this because my fear is that I might over talk about anxiety. But the thing about not making it a stigma is obviously really important to not only why we're having this conversation right now and just being more. open about it, but also with your family. I mean, so I'm pretty open about it at this point,

even with my kids. Like, mommy doesn't feel well. She's kind of feeling anxious and doesn't feel good. So like, can you please go to the play room? And they're kind of like, all right, I'll go to the other room and they're pretty cool. I mean, when they're two, it's harder to deal with. And that's when I was dealing with a more serious, like, debilitating anxiety. And I knew I could always call my mother-in-law or my husband to be like, we'll take the kids for the day or whatever and make sure that they're fine and get out of your hair. So it's always nice to have that help around so that, but at this point, my kids are older, so it's kind of nice. Do you feel like motherhood has impacted your anxiety in any way? Like I know some people say that I have these like pros and cons

of having kids episode where I have mothers kind of send in their very real honest, anonymous confessions. And one person said the worst part, a number of people actually said, the worst part I'm having kids is the constant anxiety of like loving something so much that like you never feel like you get to relax again because you're so worried about anything ever happening to them. I think that's really why my anxiety was birthed is whenever my child was birth because I was already a worry or an already an anxious person and then having the gravity of having this child that I mean, she's my life and like if anything were to happen to her, I just don't know how I would move on is that the gravity of that is so heavy and the fear of all the things that could happen

when I'm on vacation or all the things that could happen in just the day was debilitating for me. I just like it's I think it's overwhelming for any parent. But if you're somebody that struggles with anxiety, obviously those overwhelming things can become debilitating. And that was kind of, I think, why when I went on my batch threat party after I had my child, it was my first time away from her. and I was just like the booze on top of it and the whole thing. It was like the perfect storm of like, let's give birth to an anxiety attack. So is the way to deal with that? I'm like a person who's like

deciding whether or not I want to have kids. And one of the things I'm really nervous about is how it will interact with my anxiety. Like is it just kind of the tools to address, you know, the eating well and the working out and stuff like that? Or is there something you like are telling yourself on an existential level that's making you able to deal with this? I think it's both. I think it's a I can do all these things in a day to help to help me feel better and be my healthiest self but also on the other end of the spectrum is at some point you have to give up control of the things that you cannot control in life I know which would be so good for me like I feel like if I could have a reason to learn that lesson it would be so good for me but it just seems like such a

hard lesson it's so hard at first it's like it's like if you have the fear of flying which is something that I've dealt with that's because you're out of control It's a similar, but even more serious thing with like your children running around. It's a similar feeling. It's that fear of I don't have control over the situation and I could die. It's, you know, and at the end of the day, for me, for example, with my fear of flying, I started studying aviation more and the odds of anything actually happening and flying more to where you can almost counteract it and realize like this is one of the safest modes. of transportation, you're completely fine, even though you're out of control. Like, there's other ways

to communicate with yourself about these fears that you have to help put things into like a realistic light. And this is something with therapy that I've learned. And it was the same with kids. Like, okay, if you're worried about your kid drowning whenever they go to your, your mom's house, what are some things that you can do to prevent that? Okay, tell your mom to put child locks in all the doors. Done. So we did that. And it's taking control in the situation as much as you possibly can. And from there, I do trust my mom with my kids. I have to let that go. And I, you know, don't want to be one of those parents that just like never lets my kids go to grandma's house because all that fear is there.

It's definitely hard for me at first. But you just, it's one of those things that you take day by day, just like you do with your anxiety or you're a flying or whatever you do and you work through it. And you realize life is so much bigger than you can control and you have to let go of things and live your life at the end of the day. freaking hard. Yeah. You mentioned a few books in your blog post that were really helpful in your anxiety journey. Could you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. So there was one in particular, and I'm going to sound like a kook whenever I talk about this book, and that's okay. But I have this friend that I grew up around. She's actually, like, my dad's masseuse, and she is someone who teaches yoga, and she does sound therapy and she's just one of those humans that has really found like this other realm of

healing and health that like most of your friends probably don't utilize. And she's always been a big part of my life since I was like a kid. She's almost like an aunt to me just because we really bonded. And she's like whenever I hit rock bottom, I would call Alexis and she'd come over and like we would do a yoga session or something like she has in her back pocket because she's like trained in all these things to help me get through it. And I've just always found a lot of calmness and being around her. And she was like, I'm going to give you a book. You're either going to love it or hate it. And I hope you'll read it. So I started reading it. And at first I'm like, this is weird. But it's called Many Lives, Many Masters. It's by Dr. Brian Weiss. And he's a

psychiatrist. And long story short, he is, I haven't read it in a while. So excuse me if I'm butchering the book. But basically he has a patient who is having these like past life transgressions where she's like remembering these like past lives that she had. And it's a whole story on him like in the psychology study of this and how she's lived all these different beautiful lives and has been surrounded by like the same people in each of these lives and like different ways. And other than that, it's one of those things that you just have to read. But it was one of those things. that just made death not feel as scary to me, I guess, even though I don't know that I necessarily believe in that. But like, I think all of faith on this earth is one of those things where you're

just like, I don't know, but I can kind of, you know, take some things from everything and it works for my mind. But it was one of those books that I, it just made me fear death a little less, I guess. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it, but it was just a book that I really enjoyed and really liked. That's super interesting. Were there any other sort of like weird out there stuff that helped with their anxiety? Like, or not even out there, but like, you know, CBD, magnesium, rakey, like just kind of stuff like that.

You know, I didn't really start using CBD until recently and that definitely helps me with like my minor anxiety. Like if I, like the other night, like whenever, right before I started my period and I took it, it definitely helped me like kind of woo saw and go to bed without having as much jitters. But I didn't really use CBD when I first started having my anxiety struggles. It was, but again, Alexis, my friend, too, I was telling you about she does a lot of like pranayama style yoga, like breathwork. And that really helped me whenever I was in the throes of my anxiety years ago as well.

So that's why sometimes if I were to have anxiety really bad and like me going through a spell, I would call Alexis. She would have something up her sleeve to like help me. I don't even know. She's just like one of those people that just filled with like so much love and light and just like being around to her to talk through things. She's like better than any therapist that I can ever have because she's just, she's just peaceful.

I don't know how to describe it. It's also so comforting too. And you have people in your life who are like confident that you can feel better. Like I find that if I have those friends that are just like, yeah, like here's some resources. And like you will feel better. it just makes it takes away some of that churn for me. For sure. And I think that like also with, you know, being on social media or all these things that add stress to my life, but also joy at the same time, but it can be, you know, a lot of pressure sometimes to show up and speak on things or do things right and, you know, mess up. And the fear is always there for me that, you know, the more that I grow, the bigger the fall.

I fear of that, you know, something could happen to my business that shames my family or my kids and they have to go to school and, like, do with the consequences of something, some cancel and culture moment that I might have. And that's scary for me, especially for my kids, not even, I'm willing to take it on at this point, but it's like, I don't know my kids to have to deal with that. And like, I kind of went through a phase of fearing that over the last year, especially. And Alexis is just one of those kind of voices of reason. It's just like, all you can do is show up from a place of love and share that. And if you mess up, it's like you can say that you're sorry and ask for forgiveness. And if that's not enough, then you can teach your kids that like forgiveness is the

most important thing in life. And you can teach them a lesson in that. But you quitting, your job is stupid just because you're fearful of this thing that is obscure, that could. happen. I don't even know what could happen, but it's just all, I think a lot of the anxiety is just fear of the unknown. And again, with a business that's in this public platform, there's a lot of fear around that too, even though it's fantastic as well. Well, and it goes back to that, like what we can control what we can't control, like you can control what you say, showing up authentically, standing up for what you believe in, but you can't always control how people will perceive that. And that's part of the career, you know, that's part of life.

If you were, if somebody out there was listening and they were kind of in the midst of anxiety right now, is there anything that you would say to them? I would say that you can totally get through this. I have people reach out to me all the time and my, and my response is like, I am so sorry you're going through this. I feel you because I've been there. But there is the light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to each day do something.

something new to see if it might help, you know, combat that anxiety and hit it from kind of every ankle that you possibly can and don't be willing to ask for help and go see somebody. And but all in all, I, I 100% think that there's always a way out and a way to help manage it. Again, like I said earlier, I still know that I am, you know, one week away of having an anxiety attack. And that's kind of scary. But at the end of the day, I also, know that I have the tools in the support system that I've built around me to manage it and to handle it to get out of it. And hopefully, I know you will find that that thing for you as well with time. I love that. I also love the idea that like you, you're probably going to need to

try a number of things to figure out like what is your perfect cocktail, like what works for you? What would you try on day one for somebody listening if you're like, what should they try first? relax I think obviously like like for me right now if I were to have that exam I'm going to be like I know that I haven't taken the time for myself to just like relax in a while and so maybe it's laying down and watching some mindless funny sitcom putting your phone away like like the new girl for whatever reason that's like my anxiety like pill it's such a good I feel it I mean I guess it's not underrated because it's so famous but every time I watch it I'm like the writing This is brilliant.

This is a brilliant show. It's lightweight. It's fun. It's silly. And it kind of takes your mind off of things. And it helps and relax. Also, I think a good walk and just really unplugging from, I think social media is really important for me, at least with anxiety.

I think really putting your phone away when you have that feeling and focusing on like things that you can do to relax and, you know, make yourself a good dinner, have some soup. I love soup when I have anxiety. I feel like I like have the flu. I'm like, I'm going to lay in bed. I'm going to watch the new girl. I'm going to eat a bowl of soup. And then I'm like, okay, I feel a little bit better.

Is there a soup recipe of yours that we can tell people to have me their anxiety soup? I should have an anxiety soup. You should have an anxiety soon. I wish I had the perfect recipe to take away all of your anxiety, but I don't. But it definitely helps. I think the healing chicken soup in my cookbook is great. And the other one that comes to the top of my head is the chicken enchilada soup that's on my blog as well. It's really flavorful and yummy.

So those are two. But I have so many soups. I'm a soup gal turned through. Soup is very grounding. You feel like you're kind of getting a hug from the inside out. It is. It's lovely. If people wanted to follow more of your personal journey and eat some of these delicious recipes we've talked

about, where can they find you? At the good old, at the defined dish everywhere. My blog is the defined dish.com. And my cookbook is the defined dish. You can find it at pretty much anywhere books are sold for the most. part and then my Instagram is at the different fish. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today and sharing all of this beautiful conversation and wisdom. Thanks for having me. It was so fun. Liz here, remember to stick around to hear the separate interview all about how

Alex overcame her fear of flying, which starts right now. Okay, so can you tell me about, like, have you been afraid of flying for as long as you can remember or was there a specific time where it began? You know, I think it was one of those things. where I remember bits and pieces of my childhood of being afraid of flying. For example, I remember as a kid, we were supposed to fly just like another area of Texas. You know, sometimes those flights can, like, be the smaller airplanes. And I can't remember how old I was, but that's probably my first memory of like having kind of a panic on a plane and being like, this flight is too small. This airplane's too small. I don't feel comfortable.

Like my mom was on one side of the row when I was on the other. I think that scared me, plus the size of it. I'd never seen it. It was one of those where they like drive you out to the airplane to get on it where it's like not even at the gate. And I was like, this does not feel good to me. And so I freaked out. My mom was like, okay, we don't have to do this. We got off the plane. Oh, wow. And we drove to Corpus. We were going to Corpus Christi. So that was probably my first memory. And then aside from that, I feel like I was always a little bit nervous on planes, but it was really just, really small planes that scared me. And then as I got older and after I had kids, I started to be debilitated by flying all the time. I mean, everything scared me. If we booked a trip, I would think

about that trip from like the moment that we booked it, even if it was six months in advance to the day that we fly, I would worry about it. But did you still, were you still able to do it? You would just freak out or did you ever have another experience where you like got off the plane again? There was one other time when I was a kid that I got off the plane again and we were in California going for it was like a hopper plane going from San Francisco to L.A. And I kind of got nervous about that then and my family had to rent a car and we drove because of me. So that's the only other time that I can remember not getting on a flight every other time. I always would still fly even though I was nervous. I would just cry before. I'd cry the day before. I'd be nervous. I'd be.

anxious. I would talk about it nonstop. I would, you know, grab my husband's hand the whole way I still sometimes do that. And it's more of just like a, I would always go because it was always a trip that I wanted to go on. And like, it was enough for me to get on the plane and go aside for my fear. Yeah. But it was just, I would just be miserable. I would make myself sick. And sometimes, like, if it was a short weekend trip, I would just worry about the flight home so much so I really wasn't enjoying myself fully. Yeah. When I was younger, I would take these like six month trips, which sounds really excessive.

But like instead of like going on vacation, I would like go backpack through South America for six months because I didn't want to think about the flight home while I was there. And it was like this hugely life altering thing I was doing just because I didn't want to think about flying home. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. But I totally.

I mean, I can see why you did it though. It's interesting to me that your parents were fine, like, that they were like, okay, we don't have to take the flight because I was always really afraid of flying. My parent, it was never presented to me as an option that we could get in a car and drive or do anything. Otherwise, do you feel like that was helpful? And do you feel like that's how your parents sort of like approach your anxieties in general? Like, oh, we can like accommodate this work around it rather than like move through it and get on this plane. You know, I think after the second time, it was kind of like, okay, this is the last time we're doing this. And then it was never an option again. The first time it happened, I think my mom also was like, wow, this plane is kind of small. And I totally understand where she's coming from. And it was just my mom and I flying to a wedding that we had to go to. So she was more accommodating at the time because I think she felt so bad. But after the second time it happened and it was my whole family, my brother was giving me such a hard time about it. At this point, I was a little bit. older. And that's when we did the road trip in California, they were like, okay, like, we're not going to accommodate this anymore. And it never really occurred to me again to like not fly on a plane because I was scared. So I think that I don't remember like the conversation around it or how my my parents approached it. To be honest, I was so young. But it was definitely kind of like a, this isn't, this isn't going to be a usual thing for us. We're not going to do this. And my mom was always

really good at like talking to me about flying and trying to make it fun and say like, oh, you know, look how great this is, a little bit of a cheesy way, but to help me work through being nervous all the time. Were either of them afraid of flying at all or were they both totally chill with it? They were both chill with it. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. So what sort of inspired you to start working on your fear of flying? Well, when it became just like such an obstacle, and I was just worrying sick and not really wanting to travel as much because of it, I knew I needed to like figure out how to work through it because it was just becoming almost to the point where I wouldn't even want to go anywhere anymore,

which I was like, this is not, this isn't healthy. I need to start figuring this out so that I can enjoy to travel with my family without being, you know, debilitated by flying. And so that's whenever I really started to talk to my therapist more about it. And then just a bunch of other things, which I'm sure we're going to get to. But just I was just like, okay, this is just like not okay and not healthy for me to be this scared and nervous about flying. I need to figure this out. Yeah. So talk me through some of the other things that you did. Like let's talk about all of it. And then we can talk about what was actually the most helpful. Yeah. So I think it was obviously just like anxiety. There's a lot of little different factors. actors, but I started talking to my therapist about it and he was like, I think that, you know, if this continues, if we can't, you know, work through it just the two of us, we can go to like a specialist just for flying. And I think it's really good to remember that. It's one of like the number one fears for people. Like it's just one of those things that people are really nervous about. You're

feeling really out of control and you're up in the sky and it's like not a normal feeling. So I think talking to him about that and knowing that there were specialists just for flying because it was such a common fear was, you know, kind of step one. And he kind of talked me through a practice leading up to a trip to basically almost give my brain this exercise that I was driving to the airport, packing my bag, getting through security, getting on the flight, flying and just like almost tricking my brain to make me think that I fly every morning. Like it was like a meditation practice in a way. And I found that really helped because I would kind of visualize myself flying, visualize myself staying calm if there was turbulence and kind of having these like

exercises that I did. So that was kind of step one. And then he also said, you really need, he has the, if you continue to go this route and need to work with the specialist, another thing that they really do is teach you about aviation. So I was like, oh, interesting. So I think that was another huge factor is I like downloaded this app. At the time it was called Valk, it's called something different now. I'll have to look it up and send it to you. And it's kind of like an old school. It's a little cheesy looking because it looks a little dated.

But it teaches you about aviation. So like when you're taking off, it'll kind of explain to you, this is what the airplane is doing. This is why it feels this way. And then if there's turbulence, you click the turbulence button, it kind of explains you, this is what you're feeling. This is how safe planes are, how much turbulence they can withstand and explains to you, the odds of turbulence, like, you know, just basically all the numbers in general of like the odds of anything happening to you on a plane and how safe they really are. So reading through that,

I would read that while I was taking off. I would read it if there was any turbulence and it would help me better understand what was going on. So really understanding aviation a little bit better made me feel more secure because you realize how truly safe that method of transportation is. And then other than that, I'm trying to think what were some other biggies, but I have like my little rituals that I do before I fly of just trying to make myself feel calm. And I feel like the more I do it, my book tour really helped me. I flew a lot back to back to back to back to where I almost couldn't really think about it. And that that just repetition of flying in general made me feel more comfortable with it. So I really think two years ago going my book tour was a big breakthrough for

me just because I was flying way more than I was used to. And it got me feeling more comfortable with it, I guess. What are your little rituals that you do? So I usually now take CBD. Whenever I was in a really bad place, I was taking like an anti-anxiety pill. So I've kind of gotten off that. I have it in my bag just in case. So I usually do some CBD just to help bring me some calm. I usually try to carry on, carrying on for whatever reason makes me feel more in control and not going through that process. So that way can just show up to the airport, work through security and not have more obstacles along the way. So that brings me more peace. I don't know if it will anybody else. And then this might be kind of a little bit crazy. But every time we take off, I count to 100

because someone once told me that accidents usually happen within the first 60 seconds of taking off or landing. So I count to 100 and it makes me feel really good because once I get to 100, I'm like, cool, we're past like the most insecure part of flying. I don't know if that's true. Someone told me that it could be totally inaccurate and this could be really bad information that I'm giving to somebody. But no, I've heard this say, I've heard five minutes. So I always, I like ritualizing. I ritually check my phone and then I'll check it after five minutes it's past. And it's so funny because like obviously the odds of anything happening are so low, but for something about me, like moving it, like having really low odds and then taking care

of the highest odds within the low odds, like makes me feel way better too. It's funny you do that. It's checked off in your head of worry. But I also think just counting in general, like, you know, count to 10 and every year upset. Like just counting in general is a really, you know, good thing to do. So just the act of counting, I think, calms me more than anything. It gives my brain something to do. And I always pack my snacks. I make sure I come prepared with a bottle of water. You know, just having as much control of your comfort on the plane as possible is always, you know, reassuring.

But other than that, I usually have a beer before I fly too. That always helps if we're being honest. And that's about it. Fair enough. So do you feel like now like you just flew? yesterday, right? Yeah, yeah. And are you totally, like, what is your experience flying now?

I now don't really get that nervous taking off. I don't really feel that anxiety getting to the airport. I feel really confident in that. The only time that I get nervous is if there's turbulence, to be honest. And there was a little bit on our flight home because there's been quite a few storms around the Texas area. It wasn't even that bad. But, you know, when we got in the plane, he was like, just expect it.

It's probably going to be a bumpy ride. And that immediately makes me anxious, which I, I think it probably would most people, but I think it's for me a little bit more debilitating. So I was definitely a little bit more anxious and focused on the flight rather than just kind of clocking out and relaxing. Yeah. So it's really more so now just the flight, the comfort of the flight. Every flight's a little bit different. It's just like what road you're driving on is what I always try to remind myself when you're on your car.

But I think it's that more than anything. It's just, you know, turbulence is a little scary. Do you pull out your app still? No, I don't even have it on my phone anymore, to be honest. I think I read it enough to where I'm like, I know it's not going to do anything to me. So I just try to breathe. I count or I hope, you know, sometimes my husband's with me. Sometimes he's not.

I've been traveling a lot more solo than I ever did before for work things. So I just try to remain as calm as possible. look out the window and just breathe and know everything's going to be okay. I don't have any, you know, great tips. I think it's just getting more comfortable and working through your discomforts. And each flight gets better and better, I think. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. I get asked all of the time about which CBD brands I recommend.

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I cannot wait for you to try these. They are truly going to change your life. Now, let's get back to the episode. Is there anything that you do to, like, do you try to hide that you're, you're afraid of flying from your kids when you're flying with them? Or are you okay with kind of showing them that and showing them you working through that fear? You know, it's really tricky. I definitely would love to hide it a little bit more because I worry so much about them picking up on some of those traits. But there's been a couple flights and scenarios where I do

kind of get too uncomfortable to hide it or get upset. And so I definitely think my oldest is aware that I get a little nervous on flying. And she kind of asked me about it last. time we flew and I was like, you know, how you get nervous about certain things. Mommy, just for whatever reason gets nervous about flying. But then I explained to her why it's silly, are not necessarily silly. I don't think that's, you know, not the proper term. But why I shouldn't be scared because it's so safe and explained to her that. I was like, it's just something that mommy has a little bit of nervousness around and gets a little bit worried. But she, I worry about that. I wish I could be a little bit more calm, cool, and collected on planes around them.

And I think for me, that's been something with them on the flight. I have to remain more calm because I don't want them to see that. But there's definitely been a few tears here. And then whenever I do have more anxiousness on certain flights where I know they've seen it. So I don't think I can completely hide it. So when that happens, I just try to be as honest with them as possible. And is there anything that you've learned or like tried or like mantra wise? Like there was a somebody said to me once that a plane at the speed it's going in air, the air feels thick like jello. So it can't like just fall out of the sky like that.

Like is there anything that you feel like if somebody was sitting next to you and they were afraid of flying on a plane, you'd be like, well, the air at this speed is like jello. So you shouldn't be. Like is there one thing that you kind of would say in that scenario? No, I don't have anything. I don't feel like I know any like super like serious facts, but I will say whenever I was like reading that app and learning more about aviation, I would also like, if I was ever anywhere and I was sitting next to a pilot, those poor pilots, I'd be like, show, show, tell me about aviation.

I get really scared when I fly, you know, and I would just like drill them. They were probably so annoyed with me. But them talking about how safe it was too and seeing their calmness about how safe flying is it's like I think that brought me calm too. So just, you know, I think learning about the statistics alone are really proving to how we should feel safe. And at the end of the day, you just don't have control over it. And it's one of those things that we put ourselves at risk doing things that we love, like traveling. And the risk is actually really low flying. But at the end of the day, there is a very small risk that something could happen. And that's one of those things that you kind of have

to accept too. And that's the hardest part about it. But I think it's, you know, whether it be your faith or whatever, you know, your walk of life is, I think it's learning to accept that aspect of it as well. I was going to ask if there's anything in sort of tackling this fear of flying that you've learned that has helped with or applied to your other anxieties in life. Not really. I feel like what you just said resonates with me in that way because it's like, I actually think that fear flying is a really beautiful arena to deal with loss of control or lack of control. And I feel like so many anxieties are rooted in loss of control.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I guess you're right. Because like, you know, my fear of like my kids drowning or being by a pool, it's like, what, what can you do to help relieve that fear and know that you're doing everything that you can to be safe? Like asking grandma to put locks on her doors that are, you know, doing certain things to make sure that you're putting your best foot forward into doing everything that you can and then the rest of it is out of your control. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think it is kind of one of those things in

the grand scheme of things. It's, it's really how you feel about everything else. It's just flying is I think more daunting because you have, you're just sitting there as a passenger and there's really nothing you can do other than work through some of the mental aspects of it and understand flying and understanding, you know, the risk and there's not really anything that you can physically do on a plane to make yourself feel more comfortable. So that's kind of one of, it's a little bit different. And I think that's why, you know, people with anxieties probably feel even, you know, more out of control with it because you, there's nothing that you can physically do as a person on the plane if you're, if you're not a pilot or if you're not part of the crew. Right. So it's a little

bit different, but you're technically working through a lot of the same emotions and feelings that you do in your everyday life anxieties. So yeah, even that, which you just said, like, that it's going to be uncomfortable and sometimes you're just going to need to be able to, like, sit in discomfort, I think is a powerful, powerful takeaway, you know? For sure. And like at the end of the day, you know, just not flying and not traveling is just not an option. And I feel so bad for people that are so debilitated. by their fear of flying that they've gotten to that point. And I get DMs all the time because I have been transparent about my fear of flying with them saying that they've gotten to that point.

And I just really hope that they can find help so that they can get to the point because obviously people want to fly and they want to go places and want to be able to enjoy that aspect of life. And it's just unfortunate that it's the one barrier stopping them from doing that. Well, gosh, that's like, that's so much of anxiety, isn't it? It's like, will I let this make my life smaller or will I fight to keep my bigger life with this, you know? Mm-hmm. For sure. Which I think is so, it's a scary thought, but I also think it's a really empowering

thought because it puts that choice in our hands or like that ability that, like, no, we can fight for that bigger life. I think that's really empowering for me at least. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, thank you for taking the time to hop on and chat about this. I know that I love hearing people who have overcome fear of flying. I find it very nice to even, like you said, to know that other people are in the same boat

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