The Liz Moody Podcast - Thriving Through Anxiety: @Veggiekins & @FreckledFoodie Share Their Stories, Tools, and Wisdom

Episode Date: May 19, 2021

We’re kicking off a brand new series today which I am personally very excited about—it’s called Thriving Through Anxiety. I wanted to create a series about how the bad things in our life can actually turn into some of the most transformative, rich, beautiful parts. In this episode, I’ve interviewed two of my favorite women on the internet about their anxiety stories. First up is Cameron Rogers, aka @freckledfoodie, sharing: what “high-performing anxiety” is and how it impacted her life how her pregnancy has impacted her anxiety (including why she’s taking anti-anxiety medicine during her pregnancy) the clear instructions she gave her partner for dealing with her anxiety a VERY frank & honest discussion about how her relationship with money has impacted her anxiety what influencer life is like behind the scenes the 3 things that have helped her anxiety the most (and the things she’s tried that haven’t worked at all) how she views anxiety as one of her superpowers Then, I chatted with Remy Park, the woman behind @veggiekins, about: the various ways her anxiety has manifested, from her eating disorder to OCD to substance abuse her genius tip for finding an effective therapist her coping mechanisms for getting through her recent big breakup (including how she was brave enough to make the leap in the first place) how she deals with the anxiety that comes from the hates crimes against AAPI community the daily practices that help her anxiety the most the Eastern medicine practices she learned living in China that help with her anxiety how her veganism has impacted her anxiety My hope from these episodes is that, first and foremost, you’ll come away feeling less alone. I also hope you get some actionable tips and tricks and tools that can help you on your own journey, but also, maybe that it can help in a larger way to reframe something like anxiety as a beautiful, integral part of your experience on this planet. I can’t wait to hear what you think! PS: Have you snagged my Foodie preset pack? You can get all 8 presets, designed to make your food pics look as good as they taste, at lizmoody.com/presets. PPS: Healthier Together is officially a number one best-seller! You can get your copy on Amazon or at lizmoody.com/cookbook. Please keep sending me your creations on Instagram—they make me so happy! This episode is sponsored by Nuzest, one of my favorite protein powders. It’s 98% digestible (a rarity in the protein powder space) and—get this—it actually tastes good. I recommend the Digestive Support Line—they have a Probiotic Vanilla and a Probiotic Cacao. You can use the code “HealthierTogether20” for 20% off your order on Nuzest.us/healthiertogether. This episode is sponsored by Organifi, the makers of my favorite caffeine-free energy drink, Red Juice. You can go to www.organifi.com/healthiertogether and use the code “healthiertogether” for 20% off your order. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Healthyer Together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I am a cookbook author and long-time journalist. We are kicking off a brand new series today, which I am personally very excited about. It's called Thriving Through Anxiety. Basically, I was reflecting one day on how my anxiety, which I've always considered this incredibly hard and terrible thing, has actually been a huge contributor in me creating this life that I love now. If I hadn't become agoraphobic and been having severe panic attacks when Zach and I were living in London, I wouldn't have switched my writing career to focus on wellness, which I can't even

imagine how different my life and my career would be. I might not be drinking green smoothies. I wouldn't have written my cookbooks. I wouldn't meditate or have the impetus to do the self-exploration that I've done. I wouldn't be nearly as empathetic to hard things other people are going through. And I certainly wouldn't be sitting here right now talking to you. So I wanted to create a series about how the bad things in our life can actually turn into some of the most transformative, rich, beautiful parts. In this episode, I have interviewed two of my very favorite women on the internet about their anxiety stories. We'll kick it off with Cameron Rogers, who you might know as the incredible podcast host, and IG and TikTok Maven freckled foodie.

She shares about her high-performing anxiety, how her pregnancy has impacted her anxiety, including why she's taking anti-anxiety medicine during her pregnancy, the three things that have helped her anxiety the most, and we have a very, very, frank and honest discussion, which you know I love about how her relationship with money has impacted her anxiety. I was also so excited to talk to Remy Park, the woman behind Veggie Kins. Remy shared the various ways her anxiety has manifested from her eating disorder to OCD to substance abuse, her one genius tip for finding a great therapist, her coping mechanisms for getting through her recent big breakup, including how she was brave enough to make that leap in the first place,

how she deals with the anxiety that comes from the recent hate crimes against the AAPI community, the Eastern medicine practices she learned living in China that help with her anxiety, and so much more. My hope from these episodes is that first and foremost, you'll come away feeling less alone. I also hope that you get some actionable tips and tricks and tools that can help you on your own journey. You know we love those here on Healthier Together, but also maybe that it can help in a larger way to reframe something. like anxiety as a beautiful, integral part of your experience on this planet. Okay, so I have a few questions for you. One, do we like this series?

Two, I have another episode of anxiety stories plan, but do we want to open this up to other traditionally difficult topics people can thrive through like a thriving through chronic illness one? Three, any guess you would love to see on anxiety additions or other ones. And four, should I share my personal anxiety story on an episode or do we feel like we've heard enough about that? I won't be offended. Either way, let me know, hit me up on Instagram. I am at Liz Moody. I would love your thoughts. Also, I would love your thoughts and feelings and reactions as you're listening to this episode and I know that Cameron and

Remy would too. So screenshot and tag us. They are at Freckled Foodie and at Veggie Kins. Finally, if there is anyone in your life who is dealing with stress or anxiety, I would so appreciate if you would share this episode with them. Let's spread these messages. and these mental shifts far and wide. And if you were sent this episode by someone, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss future healthier together episodes. I am so happy you're here and would love to have you as part of the fam. Okay, I love you and I hope you love this episode.

So let's get right into it. All right, Cameron, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here. I love being a guest on other shows. That leads us into who are you, what do you do, sort of what's your background? you clearly are involved in podcasts. So I'm Cameron Rogers.

I am the voice behind Freckled Foodie. I'm a New York City-based content creator in the health and wellness space. And my mission is making content that helps make healthy living approachable and reassure everyone that you are not alone no matter the emotion you are feeling. I do that through my Instagram, which is Freckled Foodie, TikTok, YouTube, blog, all of those, also Freckled Foodie. And then my podcast, Freckle Foodie and Friends. I love that. So that's going to be a big part of what this episode's about. It's going to be about making people not feel alone if they're experiencing mental health issues and also maybe helping partners who have partners with mental health issues deal with that. So I would love to just start off. Can you tell me a little bit about your mental health journey or story or when that all sort of started for you?

Of course. When I now reflect back, it's very evident that I've always struggled with anxiety, even as young, kid, but at the time I didn't have the vocabulary or the emotional intelligence to notice what those physical reactions were and what, like that they were actually stemming from anxiety. And so the earliest memory I have, which is a really weird one. And honestly, I've actually had a few people be like, oh, my God, this is the same time I realized. But the concept and conversation around death and afterlife and what happens, I remember being a young kid and I don't know why this was ever a topic of conversation at that age. But I remember

having this conversation with my cousin in my parent's son room and saying, we have to stop talking about this. I feel like I'm going to throw up. My heart is racing. I feel so uncomfortable, like stop, stop, stop. And of course, I didn't know at the time that it was anxiety, but I would have these physical, visceral reactions to the concept of afterlife. And for me, I can now really put the pieces together. I have the fear of the unknown is a big anxiety trigger for me and also the concept of time. And so those two just tied together would set me off. Honestly, my husband the other night, we are expecting a child in a month. And we were talking about how you start to think about different things as you get older and appreciation and all the stuff. And he actually brought up the

concept of death and was like, it's really weird. I've been having kind of like more thoughts around this as we're preparing to be parents. And I similarly have as well, which is a whole different conversation. But we started talking about it again. And I was like, Joe, I can't. I still cannot talk about it. That thing just triggers me. So I have always struggled with mental health and anxiety. And it's definitely something that is in my blood. I can very clearly see it. I mean, my mother struggles with anxiety, my siblings, like it, my cousins, my aunts, genetically it is inside of me. And I really don't think I paid attention to it until a few years out of college because I consider myself a high performing anxious person.

And so while I was very anxious for a lot of my life, I was also doing really well and succeeding. And I don't mean that in a bragging way. I just think that sometimes we picture a quote unquote anxious person as someone who, you know, I've heard you speak about this, but you're unable to leave your home or. You know, those types of things and you're in bed most of the day. But there is another side of anxiety where you're very high functioning and high performing. And I was getting all these accolades. I was doing really well in school. I was a captain of all my sports teams. You know, I got the job that I wanted. I was getting promoted. And from the outside, it looks like I had all my shit

together. And I was always on top of things. And I was, quote, unquote, accountable. but inside I was an anxious wreck and all of those accolades honestly re-encouraged my anxious behavior and just led me down a spiral of like, well, I have to live up to these insane standards I've sent for myself. And it honestly wasn't until I had a life-altering moment. I was hit by a car while I was crossing the street in Brooklyn and I suffered from a pretty back concussion. and it really changed everything for me in all aspects of my life. But that was the first moment that I realized that I'm not in control of anything. And in a weird way, it gave me comfort because I consider myself a recovering control freak. And I used to think that I could have control over everything.

And that's where I felt comfortable. And in this moment, I was crossing the street on a crosswalk. I had the walk sign. I looked both ways, like, which honestly, Rarely do I do all three of those things in New York City, yet still, I was hit by a car. And, you know, you can't control what happens to you, but you can control how you react. And it just set me on this really interesting, honestly, physical and mental journey and like, refinding myself and becoming, it was almost this transformative experience. And I really started to focus on my mental health. It was also when I then quit my corporate job, which was very interesting.

intense and I was in sales and trading. It very much played into my anxious behaviors. And with this new life came new anxiety triggers and the realization that I really had to focus on it and pay attention and like put an effort into my emotional well-being. And I can talk about the tactics I use now. But that was kind of when I finally decided I'm actually going to start paying attention to this. I'm going to try to take steps to make it better. And, And I don't have to live, do I think I'll always have anxiety? Yes, but I don't have to live always chronically in my own head with those thoughts. Okay. So let's go back. I kind of want to talk about the death thing, but I don't want to freak you out too much. No, it's okay.

So have you found anything? You're pregnant right now. And I agree with you that like the death thing for me is very connected to just the concept of the unknown. Sometimes I'm really jealous of people who are raised with religion because they have such a strong sense of knowing what happens after they died. Being pregnant feels like one of the biggest experiences of leaning into the unknown that you can do in our living life. So how have you dealt with that? And also beyond the fear of your own death, like taking on the fear of a child's life.

So I think the fear of the unknown is so also tied into pregnancy for me. And honestly, part of it that I think helped me. So this was a surprise pregnancy. And I think that if we had been really consciously trying, and we were on the verge of about to start trying, so it's pretty honestly in line with what we had hoped. But I think that I would have had more anxiety about the process had we been trying because I'm like, I then think I would have been like, oh, my God, I'm going to get pregnant. And then what's going to happen? Because I almost got thrown into it, it cut out that initial anxiety. But I will say that my first trimester was honestly the most anxious have ever been in my entire

life. I had just gone off the medication I was on because my doctor wanted me to not be on. It was amatryptolin and she didn't want me on it while I was potentially going to try to conceive or get pregnant. So I preemptively went off of it to just try and reaclimate and then see if I needed a new medication. And in that time, we surprisingly got pregnant. And so I wasn't on a medication for the first time in two years. And again, it was just the fear of the unknown was so heightened now that I was pregnant. It was, oh my gosh, what if something bad happens during this first few weeks of

pregnancy or what if I lose this baby or what is about to happen to me? What is my life? Like, what's going on? As you mentioned, I do think it is one of the biggest unknowns. And similarly when you're pregnant, a lot of your vices are taken away. So I'm not an alcoholic, but I love a good glass of wine and a spicy margarita. I also am a very big proponent of the marijuana industry and would take an edible almost nightly and all of those things were taken from me. So it was just this mix of so many anxious behaviors and then no medication and then no other real, I hate the word vice, but honestly that's what it was. So I did make the conscious effort to go back, to go back on medication with a prescription that my

doctors felt comfortable with. And that helped me immensely. And that's another conversation I'm happy to have. A lot of people have opinions around pregnant women being on medication. I think that a non-anxious, healthy woman is the safest womb for a embryo to grow into a baby. And so that's why I decided to go on medication. But I do think there's so much unknown. And for me, honestly, I'm, I say this all the time. I'm so grateful I got pregnant when I did because I had done so much personal work, whether it be around anxiety or honestly body image and my relationship with food. And it allowed me to feel comfortable for the most part to focus on my mantra of just surrender

and leaning in and realizing that like my life is going to look different, especially during these nine months, especially during the first trimester. I didn't get off the couch for the most part. And just surrendering to that experience because you can't control it. Like when you feel so miserably sick every day like I did during my first trimester, no matter how much I want to tell myself, oh, it would be nice. I have to do like this work. I'm going to get this done.

I'm going to go work out. I'm going to do all that. You're not in control. Like the baby is very much in control. And so almost like giving up that control. surrendering allows me to calm down, if that makes sense. It's the, it's the anxiety comes in that middle ground where I'm fighting for control and I don't have it, but I'm still fighting for it. Once I release it, it's actually very helpful for me. In a very pragmatic sense, is there like something that

you do, let's say you're like spiraling about like what's going to happen to my job after I have the baby or what's birth going to be like or something like that. Is there something you're actually doing in that moment to quote unquote surrender? So a few things. A, I am a big proponent of journaling. If you have the time, I journal every morning, and I think it massively helps my mental health. I write down three things.

I'm grateful for three personal affirmations, some manifestations, and then a free journal where I just word vomit, basically, to get all these thoughts out of my head. And then in that moment, depending on how bad the anxiety is, I do rely on things like box, breath work, you know, inhale for four, whole. for four, exhale for four, hold for four, and quick meditations. But honestly, it's finding mantras or reminders for me that I can repeat to myself in those moments. And you can't really think of those things in those moments. So you have to do the preemptive work of what will make me feel more comfortable in that time. And so things for me, depending on the time of my life and

specifically it's pregnancy, you know, in the beginning I mentioned it was just surrender. it's going to be okay. For me, like majority of my life, one has been everything is temporary because I can convince myself that everything bad happening is forever and it's not. So everything is temporary. Right now, I'm so freaked out by the concept of a baby fitting out of my vagina. And I keep telling myself that my body knows what it's doing. Women have been doing this for centuries in caves without any of the equipment or devices or medications that we have today and my body knows how to do this. My, um, I read, do you read Cup of Joe, the blog? I don't.

I, I read it years ago. And she said she had this one part in it where she was pregnant and she was freaked out about giving birth. And she said she'd walk around the streets of New York and just look at every single person and be like, you came out of a vagina, you came out of a vagina, you came out of a vagina. And it like made her feel so much better, just that every single person she saw had to have been born somehow or, you know, came out of a belly via a C-section, but had to emerge. Because I just feel like if I were pregnant, I think I'd be sitting there the entire nine months and being like,

well, it's like, it's almost like when you're going out on a hike and you're like, I have to walk back this whole way. Like I've already gotten myself into this and I, there's no choice but to figure out a way out of it, but at a much more extreme level. And I feel like that would mess with my brain. Yeah. I've had a few restless nights over. the concept of birth. But again, similarly to Cup of Joe, it's reminding myself that so many people have done this. Yeah. Like enough people to have the human race right now in this world. So a lot. And then also just reminding myself that I'm not alone is a big one for me because, and honestly, that's one of the reasons why I have my platform. I felt during my most anxious times,

specifically when I was working in sales and trading and I had this great job and a great partner and all my friends were in the city and this awesome apartment surface level. Everything looked like I had it all together and it was this perfect quote unquote life. But internally I was an anxious wreck. I was struggling with depression and I felt so lonely and I would just come home and cry and I didn't understand why I felt this way and everyone else could be so happy. And it wasn't until I really shared about my anxiety with friends, but also on my platform that I noticed that we're all going through something. And I think loneliness is one of the most isolating emotions that just compounds on any other negative emotion you're feeling. And for me,

focusing on the fact that I'm not alone and someone out there is going through something similar and they're having similar emotions or thoughts. And it could be as baseline as I'm anxious or, in my first trimester, it was, I don't feel connected to this baby and I don't like being pregnant. This is not fun for me. And remembering that other women feel that way too. Not everyone has this wonderful pregnancy that they love and can't wait to do again. And usually it's the dark, scarier, quote unquote, emotions that people are less likely to share and that's when we feel lonely. But I think that by opening the door to have these harder conversations and truthful and honest, we notice that every, like a lot of us are going through similar things. If we would just talk about it,

we would notice that we're not alone. I agree completely. That makes me wonder, does Joe, does your partner have anxiety issues or does he struggle with that at all? Um, nowhere near the extent that I struggle with. He definitely will have moments of anxiety, but his anxiety is way more, um, like a normal, not normal, but you know when, you're, you have like a big test or big presentation coming up and you're anxious over that. It's very tangible. It's not an everyday baseline comes out of nowhere type thing for him at all. But he is, I would say, my number one support system.

And I joke all the time to my family when I get frustrated with them. I'm like, why is Joe the only one that knows how to handle me at my worst? Like, you guys just push my fucking, can't curse. Sorry. Yeah. I'm like, you guys just keep pushing my fucking triggers when, like, how do you know, not know by now. I'm 29 years old. How have you not figured out how to deal with me at my worst? Well, it's because you got to pick him and you didn't get to pick your family. Did you give him

tools, though, to do that? Or did he just innately know how to deal with you when you're feeling anxious or frustrated or anything like that? I think both. I think, well, A, I should also mention we've been together for 13 years. So we've evolved as humans very much together. And so we know each other better than anyone else. Honestly, sometimes better than the, like, I know myself. So he has naturally started to figure it out on his own, but also I've given him very clear instructions. And it's never in that moment. I always say this to people. When I'm my most anxious, I'm not in a place of mind to be like, Joe, this is what I need. This is how I need you to handle me. So you have to have those conversations when you've graduated from that space mentally.

Like, it could be an hour later. It could be the next day. It could be a week later. But when you're in a good state of mind, having an open and honest conversation of these are things that actually help and these are things that don't. So I know, for instance, I do not like being touched when I am in one of my, quote, unquote, moods.

I don't, I just, I hate especially soft physical touch. I despise. If you're going to touch me, it has to be like, hard physical touch, if that makes sense. So he knows when I'm in these moments to ask, do you want to be hugged right now or do you want to be not touched? And for the most part, I say not touched, but every once in a while I do want a comfort of a big hug. So even something so simple as that is helpful, because if he didn't know to ask me that and he tried to hug me and I didn't want to be hugged, it then sets off this like, don't touch me and then fight argument situation. Similarly, I get very

overwhelmed by abundance of decisions. And I sometimes feel like, you know, the decision fatigue. When you decide things all day long and then you just get overwhelmed by the silliest thing. And it used to be for me, what are we going to do for dinner if we were ordering out? I need him to take control of the situation. So when I'm in my most anxious moments, he knows he has to step up. He has to take control. I just want to be told what to do, which is interesting because I love to be in control. But in those moments, I just know. need to be told, this is what's happening, this is what we're doing, move on from the, like, back and forth that's happening in your brain. And then also, he has, in my opinion, the best

type of humor where it's so emotionally driven to make the other person feel happy. And so he knows, like the other day, for instance, I started having anxiety because my sister said to me at dinner. Did you know that your baby can start hearing your voice at like 16 weeks or something? My mom turned to me and said, have you been playing him music and talking to him? And I said, no. Like, what the fuck? Is that something I'm supposed to be doing? I haven't done any of that. I saw this on your stories. And I'm like, he hears you guys talking all day. Like, it doesn't even matter if you're not talking directly. Like, he hears you guys in your voices all day long, you know? Right. I totally agree. But in the moment, you know, when you get this idea in your head.

For sure. I'm telling myself I'm a bad mom. I haven't even given birth yet. I'm telling myself that I've set this kid up for failure, all these things I'm telling myself. And Joe comes out the next morning and I'm sitting on the couch journaling and he just puts his phone on my belly. And he has up a Spotify playlist that says like brain development music for babies.

And he's here. After one minute or people will be the smartest baby to ever enter the universe. And I'm like, that humor is what brings me out. And I love him for it. And obviously, that's not like a tactic. I can give to everyone because it depends on your partner. But I really think the most important thing is trying to assess what can help you personally when you're out of those anxious moments, reflecting back, and then having the conversations with your partner of how they can help you through them. And to be totally honest, I am not good at it on the flip side with Joe. And it's an argument that we recently

have gotten into her discussion, not an argument, but he had a moment and I did not handle it well at all. And he very clearly said to me, like, I have worked so hard to help you through these moments and I don't think you've done the same work for me. And so that's something I'm really working on because he's completely right. And I do think that it has to be a conscious effort from both sides of the partnership to really help that person through those times. I was actually going to ask about that because it's definitely been something that Zach and I have taken years to work on in our relationship is the fact that I don't know how to put it, but like I feel like in these periods, especially these periods

where I had really severe anxiety, I needed him in a way that he didn't need me. And it created this imbalance in the relationship. Like it created this like if we go out to a bar and he wants to go home, that's a want. But sometimes we'd go out to a bar and I'd have like a panic attack and need to go home. And it always felt like I had like more needs. And because they were needs connected to my health, they superseded his desires as a pretty balanced, stable person at any moment. And it was, I was like, I spent years being like, am I supposed to be, you know, aggressively making up for this in the times where I feel really good? Like, should I be like the perfect partner in those moments? And I'm curious if you've felt any of those sort of imbalances and how you've dealt with them.

The example you gave is spot on to something we have been through many of times, specifically after my concussion, my reentry into the world was, I think, a little sped up because I was unwilling to accept how long of a recovery concussions can take. And the bar incident is the prime example because I was very, very triggered by loud noises and crowds and immediately would get post-concussion symptoms, whether it be fatigue or headaches or brain fog or just disorientation. And so we'd be out. And this was when I was 27. And, you know, prime going out, New York, having fun with all your friends. And I turned to Joe and just like, I have to go home right now. I cannot be here. And Joe is, I call him party boy Joe.

He's like the life of the party, like in the greatest way. And he would always be like, okay, let's go. We're fine. And I felt so much guilt a lot of mornings or even nights. I'd come home and cry to him because I'd say, I just feel like I'm this person that, for me, it was, do you still love me? Because is this who you signed up to, we were engaged at the time? This isn't what you signed up for.

this wasn't how I've always been. And it was a lot of me projecting my emotions onto him because he was not doing any type of behavior that would ever have me question whether he loved me whatsoever. But internally, I was so uncomfortable with the changes that I was so self-conscious of, well, what if he doesn't love me anymore? What if this isn't what he imagined our life to be? And for the most part, obviously, you know, there are some partners out there that maybe they're not the greatest people and they just decide that this isn't what I signed up for. However, I think for the most part, if you're with someone in a long-term relationship, you know, it's for good or bad. It's through sickness and health. And if the tables were turned, I would never resent Joe at all for any of that.

And so I think for me, it's reminding myself of that and stop projecting my emotions on. to him. And also vocalizing these things. You know, even last night, for instance, I said to him, he was golfing all day yesterday and he's golfing all day today and I've been doing a little bit of like apartment stuff. And I said to him, I don't want to resent you. And resent is not the right word. But I am having a really hard time during this end of my pregnancy because I'm really jealous that your life is still normal. And I feel so why. wildly uncomfortable physically all hours of the day. I'm not able to do things that I usually do. I miss normalcy. Like, I miss not being pregnant. And I think vocalizing these emotions is so important

because if I hadn't said that to him, I think it would have turned into resentment. It would have potentially festered and maybe blown up on one weekend where he decides he's going to go do something and me being like, why that enough? You know, because that's not fair. So I think that you don't need to put in this extra effort to be this, quote, unquote, perfect partner because, A, that doesn't exist on your good days because you're still their partner. They love, like, you know, you would never question if the tables were turned.

Oh, well, he gets everything he wants. It's a mental and physical need. It's not a desire. And I think that's the difference. If your partner needs something, you would do everything in your power to try to make it happen. That's different than a want. You know, wants are where you compromise. I think needs are where there's more leeway with complete forgiveness and acceptance.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast. As a non-caffeine drinker, people are constantly asking me how I get my energy. so I'm going to tell you my secret trick, Organify Red Juice. It has absolutely no caffeine, only 2 grams of sugar, and it gives me boatloads of non-jittery energy. Organify is super particular about the ingredients that they use so you get exactly what you need and nothing extraneous. The Red Juice has 13 superfoods, including Rishi, Cordyceps, Siberian,

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Let's talk about money for a second. And I was debating having you on. I'm doing a money episode of the podcast and I'm doing this sort of thriving with anxiety series. And I was like, I feel like she's so open and honest about her relationship with money and also so open and honest about her relationship with anxiety. And I didn't know which one to have you on. And you were like, girl, it's all intertwined.

We can fit it together. So I'd love to know how money, how you feel like. your relationship with money has impacted your anxiety. It is so intertwined for me personally. So I talk about money in a public, comfortable manner to an extent, obviously. But for me, it's tied into growing up with an immense sense of privilege. And, you know, my parents have done very well for themselves. Neither of them – I mean, my mom came from a very, like, middle-class upbringing.

My dad lost his father when he was six. His mother was a single working mom. He definitely did not come from much financially and worked his butt off, both him and my mom, to be where they are financially. Obviously, they hold privileges that allowed them to get them there as well. But I think that for me, growing up, I lived in this almost bubble, you could call it, of financial privilege in the 10.000. that I was raised in. And so I never realized to the extent of the privilege that I was growing up with,

if that makes sense. And it honestly wasn't until, I mean, there were a few moments in my life where I definitely realized I was very aware that we were privileged. But at the same time, I never felt more than or like better than anyone because my parents are very, very, very much. much what's mine is yours when it comes to friends, family, charities. They are the most giving people I know in all aspects of the way. And it always felt like, oh, our doors open for anyone. Everyone is always welcome here. Our house is literally revolving door, specifically my parents beach house. There are people in and out of there every freaking day of the summer. And it never comes with any sense of what's the correct term. Like you owe me back. There's never

anything tied to their financial giving. And when I graduated from college, obviously I then was, for the most part, responsible for my own finances with still assistance for my parents on things. And like I said it's all the time, my parents bought my apartment that I live in right now. I'm so freaking grateful for that. But I don't think I realized how different that was until I graduated from college. I started having conversations with my friends. And I was like, oh, wow, like, that's a big financial cut that I don't have to worry about. And so, yes, I've made good money myself, but I've also been in a place that I've been able to save a lot of money because of where my parents set me up and the privileges that I hold from my childhood.

And the anxiety ties in because for me, I have newly felt a sense of guilt around certain things and uncomfortableness when it comes to money. And I think majority of my early adulthood, so right out of college, when I was, I was working in sales and trading. I was surrounded by people of similar financial situations as my parents. And I almost had this anxiety of like, well, shit, I have to make as much money as my parents did because I want to grow up. I want to maintain this lifestyle. I don't want to have like a decrease in lifestyle.

I have to, I want to maintain what I grew up with. And those are insane expectations to put on myself. Since then, it's changed way more to where is the. line of accepting help from my parents to really trying to be as financially independent as possible on my own. Where is the line of feeling comfortable with what I have? Like, is there ever a moment where you feel comfortable? I don't honestly know the answer to that. And then in the public manner of having an Instagram, it's acknowledging privilege, but I still, like, I have a sense of almost hatred towards how privileged my life is, if that makes sense.

You know, internally, part of me obviously enjoys it because it's this wonderful life that I get to live. But another part of me feels wildly uncomfortable by it. And I try to be open about it and I try to have conversations about it on my platform. And for the most part, it's received very, very well. But I think having these conversations does make people uncomfortable. And I obviously get some trolls in my DMs coming after me. And that's the number one thing that they hit me with.

and it's like, oh, you're so privileged, like, blah, blah, and it's like, I am. I don't have an argument to that. Like, you're stating a fact here. And it's the sense of, well, should I be apologizing for what my parents have done? I don't think that makes sense to me. And then where do I go from here? Yeah, I think it's also tricky with the Instagram thing because so many people, I talk about this on my platform all the time, but like social media careers, editorial careers,

publishing careers, those are the three that I'm most familiar with. But you need to, for all of those, be able to make zero dollars or a non-livable salary for so long that almost there's, there's so many people who do those careers tend to be from backgrounds of privilege simply because the salaries are so low that it's almost unfeasible unless you have like a weird back end way in to do it otherwise. But you're the only person talking about that you have that background. And so it's almost like a little bit, it's an interesting situation because so many other people that people follow probably have similar backgrounds simply because of the nature of the job, but you're the only one saying, this is my background and acting as a poster girl for it.

And honestly, part of that has made me a little bitter. I'm not going to lie. Because again, and I've said this before, I'm like, yeah, the influencing world is privileged because you have to have privilege to be able to be like, I'm going to just not make money for like a year or two. Yeah. Like literally. And then not make nearly as much money as you or in the beginning, like not make as much money as you did in a corporate world, not have stability, not have benefits. Like there's so much that you give up.

And so it's starting from a very privileged pool of people. And that is something that bothers me a bit when I get the hate messages of like, oh God, it's like we get it. And then I almost feel like, okay, well, how many times you have to say? that my parents are wealthy because then it's almost like we get it your parents are rich like shut the fuck up so it's this fine line and i do feel like majority of people whose content consumers are watching are in a very similar financial situation but they're just not having those conversations which is fine not everyone has to be comfortable doing it but i i do think it should at least be

acknowledged, and that is one of the reasons I have a bit of a struggle with like the toxic positivity, you know, do anything you want, chase your dreams aspect of the wellness industry because it's so privileged and you can't. Not everyone can do that. And that's great that some people were able to, but it's not even like that. So the way that I became a influencer was at whatever was that I worked full time and then I did this. I was writing my cookbook till like midnight every night. And yes, it like worked out ultimately. Would I recommend it? I don't know. It was three years of never seeing friends and feeling anxious literally all the time. And I'm just like, like, people always ask me about side hustles and stuff. And I'm like, it's such a hard thing. Because I do believe that

people should not have dreams that they're sitting on that they feel really strongly they should do. But also, I think we put the idea of having your dream career or work up on a pedestal so much at the expense of enjoying the life that we're living when we're living it. And I certainly did that. And I don't know if I would recommend that to somebody else. I say this a lot that we glamorize entrepreneurship and influencing and side hustles too much for millennials and Gen Z. and I think that if there is something you are so incredibly passionate about and you want to put all this work into to make it hopefully become a reality, then you should try that. But if there is nothing that you are dying to try to do, but you feel the need to do something that's not quote unquote corporate America, that's not worth it at all because the stability and the benefits of an actual job are so overlooked in today's day and age. They really are. It is wild to me.

And I've always felt this way, but especially as, you know, I'm approaching maternity leave, for instance. And being a parent, a kid is expensive. I would love the stability of a paycheck. I would love to have a paid maternity leave. You know, all of these things are so overlooked because we glamorize the life of influencing or entrepreneurship. And yet, definitely has its benefits and pros.

And I do love my job. But it also comes with a lot of cons that I don't think are focused on enough. And I know that's something I personally try to share a lot of on my platform because this isn't some perfect life that I'm living. And I don't think any influencer is. But I do think that people love, you know, it's the reason why everyone's obsessed with the Kardashians. It's this unattainable look at how glamorous my life is.

And I do think a lot of influencers have fallen into that same bucket. And that's just not content that I relate. late to. Some of the happiest people that I know, like in my own friendships are people who have a job that they don't hate, they don't love, they just do it. And then they love the rest of their time. They love having the money and the stability to really enjoy the rest of the moments of their life. I'm curious how what is, where have you kind of fallen in your relationship with money? Like, are you, money and anxiety are really interesting to me because on one hand, I'm like, I can use money to solve a lot of the discomforts that feed into my anxiety.

Like if I know if I'm going to stay in a hotel room and that hotel room is loud and I can't sleep that I can switch to a different hotel room or I can afford a therapist or things like that, that assuages my anxiety before it even happens in a sense. But at the same time, I also know that when I'm really stressed about making more money and always saying yes to contracts and things like that and trying to save, save, less did all go away at any moment, that that also feeds into my anxiety. So have you struck a balance with that? It's something I'm still working on, and you kind of hit the nail on the head with the latter one for me, especially. My anxiety changed around money a lot when I became my own boss,

because I had this new found appreciation for every single dollar. And you're really responsible for bringing in everything. And I also had very unrealistic expectations from the industry I was coming from of what a normal salary is. And I'm still working on that. It's still something I'm constantly battling of like comparing myself to my past salary, which is not a fair battle because it's going to continue to be uphill because the second I reach the number I left, I'm like, well, what would it have been had I still been there now? Like, it's, It's just not a fair game to play. But for me, it's also this upset, like always trying to find the balance of work and life.

And you kind of said this with people who don't hate their jobs, but they don't love their jobs. And they just go to work and they get to live a life that they enjoy. Joe is my prime example of this. And this is a conversation we have all the time of, like, making money where you're able to, making enough money, and it's going to be different for everyone, where you're able to make decisions of things that you want to do and you have the option to do certain things. And you're never like, oh, I cannot do that. Or I can't do something that I need or I really, really want because of financials. So having that stability, but also not living this life where you're working 24-7,

sure, you might be making a ton of money, but you're not even able to enjoy the money you're making. Yeah. And I kind of feel like that was my potential future with my past career. And I see it with a lot of my friends. It's like, yeah, I know they're making way more than me. But what is their work life balance? Are they spending time with their partners after work? Are they able to even spend that money at a restaurant with their close friends? Are they able to even go on a vacation when they want to go on a vacation? It's like, well, what is all that money doing for you if you're not even able to enjoy it? And it's finding that amount that you feel comfortable. where you are financially stable, where you're not having to be concerned over whether your needs will be met, but you're also in a place where your work isn't taking over your life. And so sure, there could be more money to be made, but at what expense. And that's something we're always talking about, and we're still trying to figure that out. I think I'm about to hit a place where I feel comfortable with the amount of money I'm financially making through my job and the time I have to be spending, doing things that I love and not just working endlessly 24-7.

And I'm really grateful to have almost hit that point. But, you know, I then wrap myself up in, you know, what you said, like the obsession over the finances and like, well, what if it all goes away? That's my number one fear with this job is I'm like, it's great now. But like, what if Instagram changes this algorithm or, you know what I? Like, it just, it feels so unstable and uncertain and there is no sort of 10 year, 20 year plan for the job because it hasn't existed that long. Right. And it is unstable. I think honestly, just for me, it's been helpful to just accept that instead of being like, it doesn't feel stable. That's because it's not. But I will like obsess over like a $20 Uber. Like that's what really like that cost. I'm like, well, I don't need to

be doing this. And then I get in my own head and then I get down. And I'm like, Cameron, you're in a place where you can make this decision, this does not have to be the thing that makes you so anxious. Sure, if I'm being anxious over, you know, our savings account getting depleted, that's one thing. But a $20 Uber is not something that should be causing me this much distress when I'm in a place that I'm in right now. So I just think it's reminding myself that I do have stability in a sense when everything can feel so unstable. And I realize that's not a reality for everyone. I feel fortunate to be able to be in that place. And then also reminding myself is, you know, if Instagram disappears one day, which I get very well could, and I have to change careers, I think I'm a

pretty adaptable person. I think I'm a hireable person. I think I will figure it out. And I also, you know, I love this career, but like maybe that's what's meant to happen one day for me. Who knows? My therapist made me say that out loud in my last session, that I'm like a resilient person and that I've weathered career changes before and that I would be okay with it in the future. I think I've said a few more times before it sticks, but she made me vocalize it. Can you share? I'd love to talk about a few tools that you think are ace. We've talked about journaling, but like that you're like, this was key for my anxiety. We've also talked about medication a little bit.

But anything else that you're like, this really, really helped my anxiety journey. And then I would also love if you would touch on a few that you tried that you thought were like meth that didn't really help. So meditation is one that I swear by personally. I meditate every single day and I have for three years now. What kind? I do. I studied through a teacher Emily Fletcher. So Ziva meditation.

I actually had her on my podcast for a very deep dive of their podcast. of their program, but it's comparable to Transcendental Meditation, so it's mantra-based. I will say it's an expense, and I don't think everyone needs to go to this school to learn how to meditate. My husband uses Headspace, and I hear the guided meditations every morning, and I think they're also great, and it's helped him tremendously, so even just more affordable, accessible apps like those are awesome. But for me, I will say that I think it has helped me tremendously. And even just watching Joe, it's helped. I can very clearly see how much it's helped him.

So I will say meditation is one that I do really love. Breathwork is another. For me, it's just focusing on the inhales and the exhales because I can get caught up with my breathing when I'm very anxious. Another, honestly, which I know people don't love to hear, is like taking time off social media. So much of my anxiety is based on comparing. And even if you don't even realize that you're comparing, you are every time you consume social media.

And so I have apps set on my phone for time limits every single day for my apps. And, you know, obviously there are times where with work I need to be on social media. So if I hit my limit and I have to sell post something, you can just extend it. But it does keep me accountable from a consumer standpoint of just like mindlessly scrolling. And therapy. I mean, I swear by therapy, again, it's a huge financial privilege, but it has helped me tremendously. And that falls in line as well with my medication. I think that there's such a silly stigma over medication.

If you had a broken ankle, a doctor wouldn't tell you to meditate it away. They would give you crutches. And that is what my medication is for my mental health. Can you say in like a very succinct way how therapy has helped you? I think therapy is this like a little bit of. mystery around it where people go and sometimes they don't know if it's working or they don't know why they should go. What have you specifically sort of gotten out of it that helped your anxiety? For me, it's the ability to say what absolutely anything I am thinking without zero judgment.

And I know that sounds silly, but if you think about, there are certain things, even with, you know, my friends and family where I could think something, but it could be either morbid or just really mean or awful or ugly that I wouldn't say to them. And there are even things that's still with my partner who I love more than anything in the world. And I tell him almost everything, there's still thoughts where I'm like, oh, God, that'd be, I don't know if you would still think about me the same way if you heard me say that. There's no judgment in therapy. And I can say these things freely and it feels so nice to release them. Does that make sense? Yeah, that does make sense completely. Okay, can you share a few things that you've tried that you're like,

me? Yeah, essential oils just aren't for me. Not for me. I'm sorry. I do have one that I use on my temples for a headache. I think that's very different than anxiety. But like for anxiety, it doesn't do it for me. Like smelling in some scent. I'm like, get this, the hell away from me. Similarly, I mentioned I hate soft touch. You know, like some pressure point work, I'm just like, No, I don't feel it. I have done acupuncture and I love acupuncture, but some of the, like, self-soothing things I've seen on the internet just aren't for me. I'm trying to think of, like, other main things that people promote to help with anxiety. There's, like, herbs, like supplements and herbs.

You know, while I think that there are certain things that obviously benefit us, like, medicinally, when it comes to herbs, I do think it's become in the wellness industry, very whitewashed and like corporate driven, where if you just slap Ashwaganda on a product, it like can obviously all of a sudden be sold for more and the demand increases. So I believe that they actually work when taken in the correct dosages and methodologies when you're working with someone who knows what they're doing, but in the way the wellness industry has completely taken over and tried to mainstream herbal supplements, I don't think that that works in my honest opinion. What about working out?

Oh, that's a big one for me. Yes, I very much believe in the mental health release of exercise. And that exercise will look different for everyone. That's a huge thing. I have been an athlete my entire life and sweat. There's nothing. Honestly, it's been one of the biggest things with my pregnancy is that I just miss so much like a workout kicking my ass and being drenched and sweat. Like, I want to go back. Can you not do that when you're pregnant? Like, is it not, is it frowned upon? I just said everything's so

uncomfortable. Everything's so uncomfortable. I can't like get to that point. I'm just so exhausted. Like I almost want to go back to like a conditioning day in college. I miss it that much. I'd be willing to do that. But for me, you know, that exercise is going to look different for everyone because there are workouts I do or have done in the past that I've hated. And when I'm sitting there in a class, like I don't like in person spin classes, for example. And I will almost feel more anxious in those moments because I'm like, well, now I've wasted time. Now I've wasted money to be here. I'm not even enjoying this experience.

So I will say exercise with the caveat of it being something that you actually enjoy doing. What about, I know you've moved your account away from food, but you are the freckled foodie, and there are a lot of thoughts on how different types of eating can impact anxiety. Have you found that to be true for yourself? I don't think I've done enough work in that space because I don't want my anxiety to be tied into food because of my past orthorexic disorder eating thoughts when anxiety was so focused on food and food was such a source of anxiety. for me, it very much used to be. And I think almost if I tied them back together again, it could be

a slippery slope. So I don't think I have. For me, it's helped my anxiety immensely to have a more loving and free relationship with food and leaning into intuitive eating of sorts and not labeling anything and just feeling comfort instead of stress around food. That has helped my anxiety. But I haven't tried like different methodologies of eating or consuming or diets, if that makes sense. I don't want to get into it too much, but is somebody felt their anxiety was really based around eating and food. And you, you were in that place at one point. Is there anything you could share about your journey or you would say to somebody in that place that might be helpful? For me, it just was, I started to notice and it takes time to realize this, but how much brain space is

wasted on that. How much energy and time I was wasting, worrying about what was going to be on a menu of somewhere I was going instead of being excited to go to dinner with like my girlfriends and even in the dinner constantly thinking about what, you know, what am I going to eat? Is there enough? Have I eaten too much? All of those things. Instead of enjoying the conversation and leaning into the joyful experience of it all and making it a not fun experience. And once I noticed how much it was taking from me, I came to the conclusion that I wanted to take that back and I wanted to enjoy my life and I wanted to enjoy these experiences and enjoy these times with my loved ones. I also think that when you start to realize that food is supposed to be nourishing, it's not supposed to be stressful. and if you're in a place of privilege for food to not be stressful in the sense that you can have the food you want

and it's not a fear that there won't be food on your plate at a certain time in the future. Like accepting that this is supposed to be something I enjoy and this is nourishing to me. It should not be something I'm limiting or obsessing over. Yeah, I love that. Is there something just because you end us on something that you would, say about how anxiety has had a maybe not positive or you can say positive but like just how it's been a silver lining in your life, how it's changed your life in positive ways. Yeah, I actually talk about this with my therapist of re-true, like rewiring my brain to not think of my anxiety

as a bad thing or something that's hurt me and instead think of it as one of my superpowers because it has allowed me to be where I am today. If I didn't struggle with anxiety, I would probably still be in that corporate world at a job that I didn't love, absolutely grinding and just day in, day out, doing the same thing. For me, it's allowed me to get way more in touch with my emotions and I think reach a level of emotional intelligence that I would have never come close. to had I not put in the necessary work and I would not have put in that work had I not ever had anxiety.

I love that you say anxiety is. I always say anxiety is my superpower. I'm like, I'm a strong storyteller in the what the fuck might happen next sense, but it's made me a strong storyteller, which has given me everything, so many of the good things in my life. So I love that you say that. I do have one thing that I forgot that does tangibly help me with my anxiety back to like way long ago in the conversation. And maybe you feel this way also. But for me, I spiral

storytell. So I will go from one scenario. And next thing I know, like, it's insane the places my mind can go. And I think anxious people are very similar in that sense. And something my therapist said to me is she was like, okay, so walk me through the spiral. If you don't get X, then what happens? And, you know, we go all the way down to like this. All of a sudden I have no home. I'm a little. I'm a alone, like all of this stuff. And she's like, okay, how many times you think you've told yourself these stories? And I said, I, Aaron, I have no idea. Like millions of times I have thought of a scenario. And she said, how many times has one of them come true? And none, quite honestly, none of the insanely negative spiral stories have told myself have ever come true. Bad shit has

happened to me, but it's never ever been anything I could have imagined. It just happened. And having that sense of I'm a tangible numbers focused person, having that sense of numbers on my side, of reminding myself that statistically these things are not, that storytelling voice is not accurate and it's not statistically what happens allows me to almost seek comfort in ignoring it and being like, okay, sure, maybe that's a possibility. but it's a 0.000 1% chance that that's going to be the outcome. That is such a powerful. I mean, even when like bad things did happen to you, like your concussion, it didn't make

your whole life worse ultimately, you know, like it didn't end up at the bottom of the spiral that ended up in places that you probably never could have imagined. Right. I have so much gratitude for that. It's just we tell ourselves these stories that are so unrealistic and out of control. and reminding myself that those have not ever come true has really helped me. I love that. All right, you said at the beginning, I feel like you talked about your podcast and stuff,

but just can you remind people where they can find you and follow along on your journey? Of course. So my most active channel is Instagram, which is at Freckled Foodie. And then I'm pretty much Freckled Foodie on all platforms. And my podcast is Freckled Foodie and Friends. I release an episode every Friday morning. We are going on a maternity leave break for June. in July, but I do have some pre-recorded stuff that'll be releasing, and there are hundreds of

episodes to catch up on while I'm away. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share all of this conversation. I mean, I feel like your story with anxiety is so resonant for me. So I imagine it will be for a lot of people out there as well. Thank you so much for having me and also for creating such a safe and welcoming space and for having these conversations because I know your listeners are very appreciative. You're listening to the Healthier Together podcast.

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podcast. Thanks for having me excited to chat. I'm so excited to chat. You've been on my list. I feel like I put you on my list for people I wanted to interview when I first started the podcast and it's fun to finally get to have you on. It's really exciting. That's so funny. I've been a long time listener. I'm a podcast junkie, so it feels very full circle. Amazing. Amazing. So for anybody who's not familiar with you, can you just kick us off by telling us a little bit about who you are and you? Yeah. So my name is Remy. I run a blog called Veggie Kins. And it's primarily a beacon and gluten-free recipe resource. But I share a little bit of mental health, a little bit of lifestyle, wellness, just living well is kind of my thing and a little bit of everything. And yeah. Yeah, I feel like your

stuff is so. I've loved your TikTok era because you create such calming videos. You just create these like little moments of peace and loveliness. And I'm like, I didn't know that smoothies could be that color and I didn't know that voices could sound that calm. And I just watched them and have like this little moment of Zen, which feels like a nice counteraction to this anxiety episode. Oh, thank you. That's the best compliment. Yeah, I try to keep it peaceful, very calming, you know, soothing content. I think we all need a little more. We do. We do. Okay. So can you tell us a little bit about your mental health story? Like, when would you consider that, to have started for you. Yeah. So I would say it's been a big part of my life from a very young age

because I was diagnosed when I was around seven or so. And it started with an eating disorder. So a lot of my mental health issues are just along the anxiety disorder spectrum. So I had anorexia at a very young age. And I also grew up with OCD, which usually occurs hand in hand. It's pretty common, actually. It's like that control thing. So I would definitely, you know, characterize myself as a very anxious person. Even as a kid, I don't know what I was. was really worried about, but I would always find something at that age. And as I got older, kind of manifested in different ways. I started to use alcohol and substances as like a coping mechanism. And then eventually, you know, they were bouts of depression and just general anxiety,

but all of that kind of not went away, but became more manageable when I started really going to therapy in college. So I would say everything's pretty under control aside from, you know, the pandemic, bringing everything up. But yeah, that's kind of what I manage on a day-to-day basis. Right now, I would say my anxiety is at like a five, six maybe, not too bad. Out of 10. Out of 10, yeah. Okay. Because if it was like out of 100, I would be like, that's phenomenal. That's really, really great. That's goals. Maybe one day. We'll get there. So when you were younger and you were dealing with these sort of mental health issues, when you were dealing with your eating disorder, how was the reaction around you? Did you have people you could talk to about it? Were your parents receptive to you talking about it?

I think my family is very much open to talking about mental health. It is definitely something that is more taboo in Asian culture in general. It's kind of something that is very easily dismissed and seen as definitely like a first world problem kind of thing. There's a lot of that guilt, I think, especially for immigrants that come in and who have parents who have gone through really challenging things in life to complain about, oh, you know, I'm feeling anxious, I'm feeling depressed. It's just not really something even the vocabulary exists for, I think. But my family is very much, you know, American culturally, and they're very open to it. I think I just didn't really have the words to even describe what I was feeling. And my natural instinct is to internalize versus to express. And so a lot of that, what I was feeling when I was younger, I just really internalized.

I didn't really speak to anyone until maybe high school or so. So I think I was lacking the communication skills, but they were definitely supportive once it came time. I also think, though, that when you're going through things like that, it's very easy to kind of lie about it. and it almost feels easier to do that than to address it. So there was a lot of that, like hiding what was going on, not wanting to be upfront about it and just kind of internalizing it thinking, like, I have a great life, I have a great family, I have no reason to have these things come up and yet I feel that way. So I think perhaps for that reason, I just kind of kept it to myself.

What was the impetus when you started going to therapy? Like, did you have a rock bottom moment? Did somebody tell you you needed to do this? what changed in college when you started to pursue that path? So the first time I went to therapy was actually in high school, and the school required that I went to therapy because I was missing so much school. And they basically told me that if I didn't start going to therapy and getting regular check-ins and kind of being able to report back and say, this is my progress or show up to

school again, that they wouldn't allow me to graduate, even if my grades were on par, they were like, you know, you need to be here, basically. So that was the first time I went and I would say it helped a lot, but I don't think we really got to the root of everything until college. And then college was when I really started going to school or to therapy seriously. But I also wanted to graduate from school. So inpatient wasn't something that I wanted to consider. And I think that's really what motivated me. Like I didn't want to fall back on sort of the societal timeline of like going to work, getting a job.

So I was like, you know what? I want to nip this in the bud and really kind of just get over my own bullshit. and address it before real life hits and I'm over college. So that was kind of, I think, something that really motivated me. It's like wanting to become an adult, I guess, and be able to manage life living with mental illness. With therapy, I think it's this, it's this interesting thing where it still has, it's like a little bit shrouded and mystery. And people are like, oh yeah, I went to therapy and it changed my life. But you don't kind of know what's happening in that room that's making that happen. And I'm always curious, was there something your therapist said?

obviously it's cumulative work, but what's happening in therapy that's changing your perspective and changing your mental health dynamic? So I think for me specifically, we did a lot of exposure therapy, and that was really helpful because a lot of the way that I function is very OCD-centric. So there was a lot of that. But also this emphasis on letting go of the control was really helpful for me. And then even just language. So having someone sit in a room and you speak your mind and being called out,

every time you say something like I should do this, for example, and just reworking that right away. And it kind of puts you in the mindset of just kind of rewiring things as they come up. And I feel like even outside of therapy, I started to do that too and just recognize, you know, either unhealthy patterns or things that maybe I could shift my perspective on. And I would kind of actually try and do that even out of therapy. So it really, really helped me because I think what it is is a new way of thinking and creating space to like express exactly what you're feeling, but then also being open to seeing where there's room to shift the way that you think about things because I think words are really powerful and the way you speak about yourself

definitely impacts the way you feel about yourself too. But I also think it's important to find the right person. That's something that I think is not talked about that often. It's not like you could, you know, go into any therapy session and feel great after. I've definitely had sessions where I'm like this was not fun. I need to find someone else. Well, and it's interesting, though, too, because I also think with a good person, you can have sessions that aren't fun. It's an interesting thing because you don't know how you're supposed to feel after. Like with a great therapist, sometimes you'll be going through a lot of shit and it'll feel terrible, terrible, terrible, and then it'll be transformative. But also, with a bad therapist,

sometimes you'll just feel like shit forever. So I think it can be a tricky, a tricky situation. How did you find a therapist that you really connected with? So initially, I just went to my university's free option, and that's how I really got started. And after that, I actually reached out to some of my psychology teachers because, funny enough, I was studying psychology while I was in college, and I actually approached one of my professors, and I knew that she worked on eating disorder specifically. So I asked her, you know, would you be able to counsel me after, you know, the semester's over and I'm done with your class? And that was when I realized it's so important to go to a specialist if there's something. you're working on specifically because general psychiatrists and therapists are definitely trained to handle things on a very surface level, but they don't have as much knowledge as I feel like

is helpful if you're really working on something in particular. I think general therapy is amazing though for everyone and anyone, but if you're really feeling like I have something in my life that needs addressing, then trying to find the best person I think is the move. It's kind of like going to the doctor, like going to the gyno versus just going to like your urgent care for something that you know is really messing you up. For sure. Can you mention exposure therapy a second ago? For anybody who's not familiar with what that is or how it would relate to something like

obsessive compulsive disorder, can you explain that a little bit? Yeah. So it's kind of like slowly exposing yourself to things that would be triggers for you to kind of fix the way, or not fix, but shift the way you respond to things. So let's say I have a trigger which is related to, hmm. let's make it kind of stereotypical OCD. So like something that's dirty, for example. It could be me exposing myself to either touching whatever it is that would normally

really set me off or leaving it there without cleaning it up right away and just gradually increasing the amount of time or the intensity. So, you know, more dirtiness or more time leaving it as is before kind of getting into it. And it's kind of like a practice. My therapist would always call it like OCD yoga almost because we were strengthening this practice to, you know, get more familiar and really was like a muscle, honestly. It's like working out to make sure that you can kind of withstand more and more every time. And just by increasing the exposure, you're making yourself a little bit more comfortable

with things that would normally set you off. And of course, like you'll have good and bad days, but it's something as simple as just like more time before cleaning something up or touching something more or putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation, which I think is great because in general, that seems to be an amazing thing for growth is just making yourself uncomfortable sometimes. But doing that in a controlled setting when it's something that really messes you up. So now can you just have like a big pile of dirty dishes in your sink and be like, that's cool, that's fine?

Yeah, I mean, that is not really a trigger for me personally, but there are certain things like, you know, I had more safety-related ones where I would like lock and unlock the door multiple times. And there was one day I remember, and this is such a weird thing to say, but I completely forgot to actually lock the door at all. And I was shocked. And I actually had a little celebratory moment. I was like, wow, I can't believe I did that. It's not a healthy thing, not a safe thing usually.

But I was like, this is amazing. Progress. That's amazing. I know that you've been dealing. So that's like you view that time when you started therapy and you got it to therapy is like getting over your larger mental health hurdles, right? And kind of getting to a place of homeostasis. But then I know that you've been dealing with some challenging

stuff lately. You had a pretty public breakup. And then also there's been quite a bit of racism against the Asian community recently, which I know that you've been outspoken about and helpful even, I think, beyond what you, we should be making you do the work. But you've been really helpful in explaining what's happening to people who aren't in the Asian community. So how do these types of things affect your mental health? And then do you have tools that you sort of pile on to help cope with you? types of things? Yeah. So I think when things come up, life events like breakups or this wave of like hate crimes that are very anxiety inducing, I think what really helps me is making sure my home base is

covered. And that's kind of my general rule of thumb in life when managing mental illness because it's not something that goes away. You can recover from an eating disorder, but there's always this vulnerability to it when your bases aren't covered. And by that, I mean making sure that you're eating. eating well, you're sleeping well, just taking care of yourself. You know, it's kind of like when you're hungry, you're just more vulnerable to being, you know, getting in fights maybe or getting in an argument or disagreement or just feeling not so great. So it's kind of like a similar thing where I like to try and make sure I take care of myself as much as possible to avoid, you know, the vulnerability to falling back into old behaviors. And it happens sometimes like with my breakup,

it definitely was a huge challenge because like you said, I was so public facing too, but also It was something I've never experienced before that no amount of therapy could have prepared me for. And I really didn't know how to manage. But in that time, I really focused on trying to make sure I could get as much sleep as I could. And also making sure I had a really strong support system, talking to people, going to therapy. But at a certain point, there's only so much therapy you can do and so much time that, you know, my therapist has for me. So it's really kind of making sure that you take care of yourself as much as you can on your own. speaking to a therapist, being really honest about how you're feeling as well,

because I think sometimes when you try to sugarcoat it, you're not fully expressing what you're going through. And sometimes it's really ugly, but your real friends, I think, will hold space for you to do that. And then, yeah, just being okay with not being okay sometimes and not putting a timeline on like when you're going to feel okay again. And I think, too, all of us are going through this baseline level anxiety with just the pandemic and everything going on.

And so it's natural, I think, to feel a little bit more emotional than you might normally about things. But yeah, that was definitely really difficult. The anxiety hate-wise, I would say, is very different because, you know, living in New York, I've honestly never felt really unsafe unless I was out and about at, like, what I am or something. Just not in a great area. But I've never really felt out of place and definitely never felt unsafe because of my race, whereas now it's a completely different story. yesterday I actually had somebody throw like a verbal slur at me and I was like oh this is new

sometimes it's like I'm very used to the cat call in New York which is sad to say that I've kind of normalized that in my head it just doesn't phase me anymore but you know it's a fact of living here and sometimes it's a little bit race based it's like oh you know like you're so fine China or like them trying to impress me with their knee how or something and I'm like I'm not even Chinese but thank you you know but now it's kind of like When I take the subway, I find myself like my back is against the wall. I'm definitely looking over my shoulder. I'm staying by the MTA agent if I can.

It's definitely a little bit scarier because I think when you hear the news, you can put yourself in the shoes of the victim a lot more easily when it's somebody of your race and you know that you're being targeted. And then of course, like from the beginning of the pandemic too, like I started to experience a little bit more racism than I ever had before in my life. Like New York is a great place to be. I think for most people, it's such a diverse. city, but little things like being told that I carried the virus because I looked Chinese

or my neighbor telling my landlord that I definitely was carrying it and they're uncomfortable living on the same floor as me, like little things like that. It kind of all adds up and you realize how Asian you are. And I never thought that was a bad thing, but here we are. Now it's scary to be Asian, you know? Yeah, that's, it's interesting. I think a lot of what I work on in therapy is distinguishing, and it sounds like it was a little bit of a theme in your therapy too, is distinguishing between that which is actually unsafe and that which is perceived unsafe in my mind. And it's the interesting thing about the recent spade of racism is that like it is actually unsafe potentially for you to go outside. So I'm curious how you like,

is there a way to deal with actual unsafe rising when you have anxiety? You know, you can't just kind of correct it in your head and expose yourself in the same way. Yeah, it's been challenging, I think, because it still almost feels surreal to me. Like when I'm outside, I think to myself, oh, this happened in Brooklyn. This happened in, you know, San Jose. This happened in Oakland. It doesn't really feel real yet, which is such a weird feeling because I'm out and about and I'm thinking, you know, I'm fine. And then I'll get messages on Instagram from people being like, oh my gosh, be safe if you're taking the subway. And I realize in those moments, I'm like, oh, yeah, like, this is going on right now. So I think it's just making sure you're around people and just taking

the precautions that you normally wouldn't. I kind of realized how carefree I was before this as a result. But I try to kind of be around people. If I see someone else who's Asian too, I feel in a way a sense of comfort too. I feel like we kind of give each other a look and we kind of know how we're feeling. I have I guess protocols in place where I'll call a friend and tell them where I'm going, share locations, things like that. But I don't know if there's anything really that I can share that's helpful aside from maybe some form of exposure therapy is kind of just seeing how you feel when you do take the subway and then deciding how you feel about it. If it doesn't feel good to you, maybe you take an Uber, which it sucks to pay for, but at the

same time, like, is it worth your peace of mind and also your safety potentially? So it's kind of what I do too. I'm always kind of thinking, you know, is this an Uber moment or can I take the subway? And honestly, it's been an Uber moment more than often recently, but I think it's worth it. Mental health is always worth it. And obviously, physical safety is always worth it. Yeah, I do think there's something very real that I've at least realized my mental health journey about, like, how much money. I tend to be a person who doesn't like to spend a bunch of money on pretty much anything. But it's like if you don't spend the money to get your mental health good, nothing else you're spending the money on will be enjoyed in the same way.

And so it's been a big act of like permission giving for me to spend my money that way. Yeah, I love that. That's definitely very true. And I think also beyond just mental health, like physical safety is so important. But it's funny how we're willing to compromise that because we're like, I just don't want to pay for the Uber sometimes. Yeah, it is. It's crazy.

Going back to your breakup, I think that what's striking to me about it is what a incredibly brave choice it is. After 10 years, a decade with a person to essentially start. that piece of your life over is really scary and really incredibly brave. And I think a lot of people feel like mental health issues, anxiety, et cetera, precludes them being brave in that way, that being scared is the opposite of being brave. And the fact that they're scared means that they won't be able to be brave in these big, bold ways again.

So I'm curious, do you feel like your mental health has held you back from being brave or making these decisions? and do you have any wisdom to share, I guess, about choosing yourself and making these big, brave choices? Yeah, I think part of it does go back to the putting yourself in uncomfortable situations in order to grow part. I think, I guess mental health-wise, if I felt held back, I think I definitely was afraid to make a leap because, one, it's the comfort of being with someone for 10 years, but also feeling like this person has been with me through actually my, entire mental health journey and was a huge part of my healing too actually like a very big advocate for my recovery in every sense of the word and that alone is so scary feeling like you might just completely unravel without this person and feeling like is he part of my healing is this the reason

why I'm okay and if I lose that am I still going to be okay or is this like I'm going to revert back to everything which is also not something that I wanted to feel like I wanted to make sure that I was solid on my own because I think that is really important is to be able to to be healthy and happy from an internal source first, beyond depending on anyone else. I mean, it's okay to depend on people, but it's just to make sure that you're solid on your own. And you know that your source of happiness is not based on someone else entirely. So, yeah, it was terrifying. I think I'm still kind of going through it because it's such a shift for me.

But I think it is important when you start to feel like you're compromising or sacrificing. or sacrificing your happiness in any way for the sake of someone else, even if they're not asking you to do that, if you can recognize unhealthy patterns or maybe be a conversation that comes up over and over again, things like that shouldn't be happening, you know, and it's important to value your happiness and feel like you deserve what you need. So for me, it was kind of this feeling that if I did not leave the relationship,

I was kind of disrespecting my own needs. And every time I communicated my needs and didn't receive what I needed, I was effectively dismissing myself and what I needed and almost kind of pushing that to the side, which is, I think, not okay. It becomes a learned behavior and it's something you don't realize is unhealthy, but really can be. It doesn't have to be a toxic relationship, but it can become a little bit toxic just in the way that you're managing your own emotions.

So, yeah, it's really difficult. But I think that if it's something that's on your mind and you find yourself having the same thoughts over and over, you find yourself communicating your needs frequently, then I think the relationship is vibrating at a low frequency. And at that point, it becomes either something you have to have a serious talk about and you work through together or a situation where you leave and you choose yourself. And at first it hurts. It's like it's really hard to break your own heart because you're choosing to leave and, you're. Maybe there wasn't any negative action that was done to you, but you're leaving because it's better for your mental health and for your sake. Yeah, it sucks a lot, but eventually I think you feel lighter. Like you let go of some of the weight that you're holding on to.

And like anything else, it's a non-linear healing journey. So, you know, overall, I do feel lighter and I feel like that's how I knew it was the right decision. But, you know, I just cried on the subway last night. So it goes in waves. And that's just really the truth of it. It's not going to be like you break up and you're healed and you feel amazing. You will have moments like that, but you'll also have subway crying moments. And that's okay.

Well, and in some ways you're proving to yourself with every day that you're still thriving that your mental health wasn't dependent on this person. You're sort of exposure therapy and yourself to life without them and saying, I can do this and I can thrive. Right, right. It's kind of like owning my healing journey and knowing that I did the work to get there. And that even though someone has supported me, all the work that I did is very much still valid. It's not going anywhere.

So that is definitely a good feeling. I love that. Are there other tools that you use to deal with your anxiety? We've talked about therapy, obviously, but like CBD, baths, yoga, meditation, like any of those types of things? So for me, it's definitely yoga, but also boxing, which may seem a little counterintuitive because it's like a very high intensity thing, but it really kind of wears you out. Like it makes you so tired sometimes that it's just this release and you got the endorphins and any frustration and anger you have.

I feel like you can really take out on the bag. So I love that. It's one area in life where I'm like really aggressive, which is not my usual personality. So I really look forward to that. I really, really love baths too. I find that they're very helpful, especially for empaths and anyone who's like a very sensitive person to just be in water is really healing. So I love that. And then not so much meditation actually, but breathwork really helps me because physically it just helps to calm down your nervous system.

I've never been a huge meditator because it's tricky for me with OCD. Like I don't really want to quiet down and listen to what's going on because it's too much to listen to already. But breathwork really helps me a lot. And I love that it's physical. Like you can really feel it taking effect. you feel yourself slowing down a little bit. So I would say breathwork, boxing, and bats. Oh, that worked out nicely. For somebody who's unfamiliar with breathwork, what does that mean? Like, is that a class that you take?

Do you learn a certain inhale, exhale pattern and just do that every day? What does that practice look like? Mine's very casual, actually. I just do kind of like a box breathing or a very slow, drawn-out breathing. So it would be something like an inhale for four counts, a hold at the top. and then an exhale. And I guess the idea is just to slow down your breath and become really conscious of it. Because when you're in this anxious state, you're at a very heightened, like, very fast-paced breathing kind of state. And when you physically slow it down, it really does help to calm your nervous system and just tell your body it's okay, feel a little bit more or closer to homeostasis. So that's what I try and do.

And I love it because it's free and you can do it anywhere without even being obvious. If you're in a public setting and you're having a moment like that, you can still wait. whip it out and no one will know, you know. Yeah, for sure. Is there anything other than meditation that, like, has not, that you think is, like, overrated for your personal mental health journey that you've tried out? Oh, you know, I would say journaling is not my favorite, just because I used to do gratitude journaling. And then I found myself writing the same four or five things every day. And I was like, grasping for straws looking for things to be grateful for. Actually made me feel ungrateful. I was like, why is this so hard?

Interesting. So that was one for me. And then I actually have not. never really tried CBD because of my past with addiction. I know it's not a drug, but I guess I always had this reservation about it thinking, is this something that I'm going to start using like a drug where I feel like, oh, today's a rough day. I'm going to double dose it. But recently I've been thinking that just for my peace of mind and, you know, I found a white hair the other day, I was like, geez, maybe I should think about CBD because I'm not trying to have this breakup, like, age me. I'll send you some of my, my, my, my, favorite brand CBD and you can try it out. Okay, cool. I'm nervous around substances. I don't have

addiction issues my past, but I do. I had a seizure that was the result of weed usage and like just a whole bad time in my life. And I found, I was super nervous to try a CBD. And then one night, I had it slept for like three nights. And I went out into the kitchen and I like grabbed a dropper that I had for store I was working on and just like dropped it in my mouth at 3 a.m. And I was like, do what you will to be CB and I just reached the end of my rope and it ended up being like a very positive thing in my life. Oh, I'm glad. Okay. I'm excited to try it. Sometimes you need to hit the white hair or the three nights of note sleep to be inspired to do it. Yeah, absolutely. So you've lived in all of these different cultures. I'm thinking about your time that you spent Amsterdam and then also you grew up in

South Korea. Am I right in that? So I grew up in Shanghai and Taiwan and we moved around a little bit. I spent sometime in Korean, sometime in Thailand more, but a lot of time in Asia. Yeah, my family did like a moving thing and they're actually still in China now and like everyone else is here and we're like, are you guys playing back or you're just going to hang out there? Is there any like thing that we can learn about approaching mental health issues from the different cultures or anything that you've learned from all of these different places that you've lived? Yeah. You know, I think it's actually not even just specific to Asian culture, but a lot of minority cultures and especially people who emigrate to other countries, there's a lot of dismissing of mental health because

I think it's almost like there's no time for it. When I think about my grandpa coming here and getting his first job and trying to get on his own feet before he was successful by any means, I can only imagine there was so much anxiety related to the way he was feeling and I'm sure it was super stressful, but don't think he really had the tools for that. He kind of just powered through it. Whereas now I find myself complaining about things and I'm sure to him would be so minor and miniscule in first world. So there's a lot of that dismissal of things that we go through and I think it can be difficult to communicate with family sometimes. And for that reason, I find that a lot of my friends don't communicate with their parents because it's almost easier not to. And then also

because it's almost like you're expressing or as if you're not grateful for what they've gone through to get you here and now you're going to complain about mental health. So it's kind of a tricky subject and it's hard for them to understand because generationally too, I don't think that conversation really existed at all for them. So yeah, it's a little tricky. Like I don't even speak to my grandparents about it as much in depth as I would my parents who are fortunately like very much with the times and understand like the mental health thing. Yeah, it's really tricky. Like how do you- Did your parents grow up in the – did your parents grow up in the U.S.? Yeah.

So my parents grew up in New York. My mom grew up in Queens and my dad in New Jersey. So I think that helped a lot just to kind of give them the understanding. But yeah, it's definitely tricky. Like with any minority culture, I think it's definitely an issue. I don't really know what to say about it other than like I try and educate my family and treat it almost as like a medical thing, which it is. And I equate it to like any other disease like not to be. be morbid, but like cancer, you know, it is a disease. It's just something that you can't see as much. So I try to

explain it, but honestly, I find myself shying away from it a little bit too with them because I do definitely feel that guilt sometimes where I'm like, gosh, I know what you've been through. I don't even want to talk about my anxiety. But interestingly enough, I think COVID and also the Asian hate happening has really opened up the door for maybe them to understand a little bit of like what I mean when I say I'm anxious because they're definitely feeling it. They just don't have the words, I think. Yeah. So you're even maybe giving them like a gift of potentially providing the language to deal with what they're feeling. Yeah, I would hope so. I mean, they don't communicate it really, but I know, for example, my grandparents will avoid leaving the house, going to grocery stores. Like if we drive by something in New Jersey and there's even a little bit of a line or a crowd, it's just like a straight, you know, we're not going there. It's a U-turn right away.

And, you know, I'll try and open up the conversation like, oh, like, why are you feeling scared to go to the store? I know you're vaccine. You know, how are you feeling? Why did you cancel this appointment? Why did you cancel your plans? Why don't you want to come into the city? Things like that. And I think for them, that's helpful too, just to be able to communicate with me a little bit more about how they're feeling. Because a lot of the time, it's just me gathering what I think, but they're not really telling me. So when you were in places like China, which they, you know, do a lot of acupuncture and more Eastern medicine modalities, did you try any of that type of stuff? Yeah, it's funny to me because it was very normal there. Like, you can go to any old hospital there and get acupuncture done, get like, what do you call,

like a mugwort box placed on your stomach and things like that. Every doctor will look at your tongue, or not every doctor, but it's pretty common like that they stick out your tongue. And it's not a weird thing at all. Whereas here, I feel like you have to go to like a parsley to get that experience. Even things like reflexology are super common there and herbs. They've been around for, you know, literally centuries. So it's always been something that I kind of thought as like, oh, like weird and traditional that I never wanted to tell people about. And then in the recent years here, it's been something that is like accepted and applauded. And it's cool to see because I'm happy that it's accessible here, but also that it's no longer something where I have to explain why it looks

like an octopus attack my back after I get cuffing done. It's like, oh, that's cool. Where'd you go? Like, can you refer me to your person? So it's definitely great to see it blossoming here. Do you find, like, cupping or acupuncture, acupressure, refluxology, herbs, do you find those modalities helpful for anxiety? I definitely do. Acupuncture helps me a lot, especially when the anxiety starts to manifest in a physical way. So like tightness of the shoulders, back tension, things like that. It's really helpful for me.

Herbs have been helpful as well. And it's funny because it comes down to things like as simple as like stop drinking ice drinks, like very basic TCM principles. And I find that when I do pay attention to those things more, like my body definitely feels better. But I also love my ice drinks. So it's like finding the balance between knowing that it could be as simple as just doing that, taking the ice out and drinking a hot drink versus going to get needles stuck in you. But I love it. It's like we've got options. For sure. The last sort of modality thing I want to talk to you about, which I feel like I'd be remiss to not talk about, is that you are vegan. It's a big part of your brand. You do

beautiful vegan recipes. Do you feel like your veganism has had a positive impact on your mental health? I'm also curious if it's interacted in any sort of negative way with your control sort of OCD struggles because you have to control so much more of your diet if you're keeping it strictly vegan. Yeah, that's actually a great question because I think that it is common to see some people using veganism as sort of a cover for an eating disorder sometimes. but I think it comes down to understanding the intention and the purpose for going vegan.

Is it health and diet related or is it the ethical thing? And there's this joke where it's like, I'm a junk food vegan because I hate myself, not because I hate meat or something like that. And the point is like, I'm vegan because I just want to save the animals, but I don't care about my health, basically. And like that's definitely more of like the ethics, the values kind of thing. And I think for that reason you can tell it's not. for diet reasons. It's not for health. It's not for restricting. I'm strictly eating the

vegan junk food. Don't worry about it, but it's all vegan. Whereas there are some people who go vegan and it's very much like, okay, I'm not eating any sugar. I'm not eating any carbs. I'm not eating any saturated fats. I'm not eating butter. I'm not eating meat. It's very restrictive in that sense. And I think there are so many ways to be vegan. So it could really vary based on how you decide to approach it. But for me personally, I actually found it to be very healing as far as my relationship with food goes because it was the first time that I really started to cook for myself because options were kind of limited. So I learned to cook. I spent time with food and I could kind of appreciate where the produce was coming from. I would like go to

the farmer's markets. And also there were less labels involved. Like I was eating fresh produce that didn't have like the calories on it anywhere because there wasn't even any plastic on it. And that was really helpful for me just to think about texture, flavor, food. Like what is this lettuce doing for me. What is this kale doing for me? What kind of vitamins am I getting from it? So a huge shift in just the way that I thought about food. And I think also knowing that the way that I was eating had a positive impact for the animals and environment was really nice. It was like this positive feedback for eating food, which I didn't have before. Like I was afraid of food. And then all of a sudden I felt good about eating food and I felt like I had a reason to eat,

which was really nice. So I think it depends on the person. Like there are people where I would say you know, if you're struggling with your relationship with food, it may not be the best time to kind of remove anything from your life. Honestly, it's like you should be able to give up the control versus wanting to eliminate things and have control over your diet. But if your relationship with food isn't a good place, I think it can definitely be beneficial. But I also recognize that it's not for everyone. And that's something that I think is really important too, because in the vegan community, there is a lot of black or white mentality where it's like vegan is good, not vegan or anything else is bad. and if you're not doing veganism, it's because you're doing it wrong, or if it doesn't work for you, you did it wrong. And I just think there are so many things to consider when talking about veganism, privilege, health history, access to food. I mean, there's just so many things that go into the ability to even consider being vegan. So I always recognize that too. And I'd love to just end on if there are any silver linings to your anxiety or your mental health struggles in general. like has it had, and you can say no, it's totally fine if you're like, no, it's all been terrible,

but has it had any positive influences in your life? I think the most positive influence would be the creation of my blog because I started it when I was in eating disorder recovery initially and it was a food accountability log that I would use with my therapist. It was an accident kind of just happened to become public. But if that hadn't happened, if I'd never had an eating disorder, I don't think I would have my platform now. So in a way, I owe a lot of what I'm doing now to my past struggles, and I'm grateful that it happened that way. And I also think I know myself better now, having gone

through the therapy and having addressed things that I was struggling with, and it's made me a better communicator, but also made it easier for me to hold space for other people going through things like that, because I think people in the wellness community, a lot of us are coming from a place of needing healing and meeting wellness or being unwell. And I find that I'm just able to empathize with people a lot better because of what I went through. So I do think I'm grateful it happened. I would definitely say, yeah, actually a lot of silver linings for sure. I love that. If people wanted to find you on the internet and follow along with your journey, where should we send them? You can follow me at VeggieKins on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, and then all the recipes

are on my website at VeggieKinsblog.com. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. Yeah, thank you for having me. Hopefully see you in real life soon. I hope you love this episode as much as I did. I just love talking to these brilliant, beautiful women. I know that it helped me feel less alone and a lot of the stuff that I've gone through. And I hope it did the same for you. I would love to hear your thoughts, your feelings, your reaction. So definitely screenshot and share. I am at Liz Moody on Instagram and my beautiful, beautiful guests are at Freckled Foodie and at Veggie Kins. I would also love to know, do we like the series?

Do you have other guests you want to see on future thriving through episodes? Do we do thriving through everything or just thriving through anxiety? Let me know, I would love your thoughts. Also, if there's anybody in your life that you think could benefit from the beautiful, beautiful wisdom that my guest shared in this episode, please don't forget to just shoot them over a text or an email with a link to the episode. You two can get healthier together. They can join the healthier together, fam, and you know we love that.

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