The Liz Moody Podcast - Weddings: The Good, The Bad, and The Things Nobody Talks About with Jo Johnson Overby

Episode Date: May 25, 2022

I’m so excited to welcome Jo Johnson Overby, the TikTok and Instagram star and former wedding photographer to the podcast. We talk about: each of our top favorites and biggest regrets from our weddings how to stop caring about other people’s expectations (in life and in weddings!) unique wedding ideas that make it feel special how to feel confident in your skin on your wedding day or any day the best advice for eliminating wedding regrets, whether it’s before the day or post-facto genius tips for saving money how to be comfortable in front of the camera the one unexpected wedding element everyone should include how to stop comparing yourself to people on social media pragmatic advice to make your wedding feel true to you how to let go of life timelines and pressure to get married by a certain age This episode is sponsored by Dame. Go to www.dameproducts.com/healthiertogether to get 15% off your order. This episode is sponsored by AG1 by Athletic Greens. Visit athleticgreens.com/healthiertogether and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today This episode is sponsored by Paleovalley. Head over to paleovalley.com and use the code LIZM for 15% off. This episode is sponsored by Wild Health. Get 20% off with code LIZ at wildhealth.com/liz. Healthier Together cover art by Zack. Healthier Together music by Alex Ruimy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the healthier together podcast. I'm your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a best-selling author and long-time journalist. This podcast is all about helping you live your healthiest, happiest life, whether we're busting myths about aging, learning how to feel beautiful in our own skin, or using neuroscience to eliminate anxiety. And yes, those are all real episodes, so if any of those topics sound good to you, scroll on back in the archives. Today's episode is all about wedding favorites and regrets.

I was so excited to chat with Joe Johnson Overby, the host of the Middleground podcast and a lifestyle content creator with 1.4 million followers on TikTok and well over 200,000 followers on Instagram. I love following Joe's online content. She is so real and honest and has such a beautiful and powerful way of looking at the world. And she used to be a wedding photographer. so I knew that she would be the perfect person to have on this episode. This is a really chatty and fun episode, and yes, it's about weddings,

but as I'm sure that you're used to by now, it is not just about that. So much of how we approach weddings can teach us things for the rest of our lives about what we value and dealing with outside perception and being our truest, most authentic selves. And that's what this episode is really about. We talk about how to stop carrying about other people's expectations, unique wedding ideas that make it feel really special, how to feel confident in your own skin on your wedding day or any day, the best advice for eliminating wedding regrets, whether it's before the day or post facto, how to be more comfortable in front of the camera, the one unexpected wedding element everyone should include

how to stop comparing yourself to people on social media. I definitely needed Joe's wisdom on that one, was so helpful, super pragmatic advice to make your wedding feel true to you, how to let go of life timelines and pressure to get married by a certain age, and so much more. I am so excited to hear your thoughts on this episode, so definitely screenshot and tag me. I am at Liz Moody and Joe. She is at Joe Johnson Overby on Instagram. Without further ado, let's talk about all things weddings with Joe. How many weddings do you think you've been to? I've photographed 200, 17. Wow. Yeah. So I have photographed 217 and I've probably been to, I don't know, maybe 30 on top of that. I would say I'm somewhere in the 250 range. That's crazy. Are there any standout weddings that you can remember that you were just like, this wedding nailed it?

You know, the ones that stand out, it's nothing about the wedding. It's about the people and how they chose to enjoy their day. Okay. So what do you mean by that? I have been to small weddings that were the best weddings, like, that make my top 10, and I have been to huge weddings that make my top 10. Because what I learned along the way is it really has nothing to do with whether it's a big wedding, small wedding, outdoor wedding, indoor wedding. It has to do with the couples staying true to themselves and doing what makes them happy and there are people supporting that.

Do you have any advice for getting your people to support that? I think that's the hardest part of that equation is you can have this. perfect vision of your day, but then you tell your mom or your mother-in-law or anything like that, and people all have their thoughts. I think the best thing that you can do, I don't think there's a one way set to get people on board. I just don't. I think some people just like to be bitter or, you know, really want things to revolve around them. I don't even think that they're necessarily aware that they want that if that makes any sense. But a lot of people aren't ready to get into a healthy mindset with that. And so you have to work through it yourself and be okay with it, sadly. I think that's the

reality. So you have to basically become okay disappointing people? Yeah. Well, you have to realize that it's not you disappointing them. They're disappointing themselves. Oh, oh, that's like a life thing, not just a wedding thing. Yeah, I think there are times in our lives where we disappoint people. Like it's where we drop the ball. Don't get me wrong. Like, and you know those things. You know when you feel disappointed in yourself that, you know, I committed to too much.

And then I told them I was going to do it. And I didn't fell through. Like that's totally fair that somebody feels disappointed in you. But if somebody else is setting an expectation on you unbeknowing to yourself, that's not you disappointing them. That's them disappointing themselves. Okay, so let's get into some of the favorite parts of your wedding specifically. You did sort of a traditional approach to your wedding, right?

Yeah. So I always say we did the pandemic wedding before the pandemic wedding was cool, you know. We had the really small ceremony and we did a little brunch reception with our family and friends about 40 guests. And we got married in the morning. And then a couple weeks later, we had a big party with all of our family and friends. did the whole dancing and it was just a reception and we had a great time and it worked really well for us. What was the impetus for doing it that way? My mom has multiple sclerosis. So she's considered

quadriplegic. She is in a wheelchair and a lot of activities just really exhausting for her. And I am her only daughter. I'm her only biological child. I shouldn't say I'm her only daughter because She definitely claims my sisters who are her stepchildren. But I really wanted it to be special for her because, and not in the way that she put expectation on me for it to be a certain way. It was just really important to me that she's there to participate in every way possible. And the idea of a traditional, we get up at 7 a.m. and we get ready all day and then we have a ceremony and then we have this huge party, I just knew that that wasn't realistic for her to do

that and be involved in the capacity that I wanted her to be involved in. And so we broke it down this way and it was wonderful. It was really wonderful. What did you like the most about having these kind of two separate events? I liked it because on our wedding day, it was about us. We weren't trying to stretch ourselves then to talk to 150 different people. We weren't trying to do things in order to impress anyone else or because we felt like we had to, we were just enjoying and celebrating with one another. And we could really be the truest, most authentic versions of ourselves without any other worries because the only people that were there were the people who accept us and love us for who we are regardless.

And do you not feel like that was necessarily the case at the larger wedding party? I mean, I still feel like all of those people likely feel that way. We try really hard to surround ourselves with people that, you know, love us for who we are. But I think especially for me, I'm the kind of personality and person, I just struggle with wanting everybody to like everything I do. I don't want to ever hurt anyone's feelings or it's easy for me to get caught up in that, regardless of what any. anybody else has done. And so this was a good way for me to navigate it so that I wasn't in those feelings the day of my wedding. I was focused on myself. It's so interesting because I see you very much and I only know you from social media, but I see you very much as somebody who is so

steadfast in the way they want to live and doing exactly what they want to do every single day and with their life as a whole. I don't know that I've always been that way. I don't think that that's inaccurate of where I am right now. But when I was getting, I got married three years ago and we were engaged for almost two years. So I was planning my wedding almost five years ago. And I was in my mid-20s and still figuring myself out. And I look back at that time and I put myself in that mindset that I was in. And I think I was still struggling socially. And I, you know, I don't think it's one of those things that you figure out and all of a sudden you just know who you are and you're confident all the time and no worries.

I think it's very much in seasons. And I think right now that you're not wrong. I'm in a season where I'm really confident in who I am, what I want, and I'm not really worried about what other people have to say about it. But I cannot say that I've always been that way. Where did that come from? Like when you go into those seasons, is there anything that sparks that or something somebody else could pull a little bit

of inspiration from? I think that it comes from, just wanting to not live for others. There's like a, I don't know, I'll go through these times. I'm just like, wait a second. The reason, like, I try really hard when I have problems in my life to focus, what is the similarity between all of these situations? And if it's others' opinions, that means I probably need some reflecting and it's

time to focus on only problems that are my opinion, if that translates or makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The idea that your problem isn't what's actually happening in your life or internally, but what you're afraid other people are going to think about that, right? Yes. And that's kind of what happened to me. I got, right after I got married, I had this realization that a lot of my decisions were based in how I thought people were going to perceive me rather than based in how I was going to

perceive myself. And you end up feeling so disconnected and like discombobulated whenever you do that because you're like, man, I am just so disconnected from myself. Why I'm doing all these things and everybody's so happy. Everybody else is so happy. But you just, you can't live like that. That's not the reality. I will say, I completely agree, but I can see the dream. The arrive to live like that sometimes because in some ways it's like harder to know what you want and what you need like that you really have to zero in and center in on that whereas other people are just going to tell you their demands for your life so it's almost like a simpler but worse way to live if that makes sense well I think in a lot of ways it is simpler because everybody

thinks they're keeping the peace you know keep the peace and then things will be chill but I don't know I think the older I've gotten, the less I'm about, I'm about being kind. I'm about accepting others for who they are. I'm about loving others as well as I can. But I'm not about changing who I am to accommodate other people and make them comfortable. We'll get back to wedding stuff in a second. But I have always been curious how you feel that growing up and watching your mother deal with something like multiple sclerosis has impacted how you view the world. I'm way more grateful than most people for things that other people don't even think about.

And I, it's immensely evolved my perspective when it comes to everything. I, because I wake up with gratitude that other people don't understand. And I don't want them to understand. Like that, that's the hard part is you get frustrated that other people don't have this perspective, but you don't want them to have that perspective. You don't want them to get that. But I put my feet on the ground in the morning and I'm so great, that I can get myself out of bed.

And so it's really hard to get caught up in a lot of the problems that I think other people struggle with. And not to invalidate any of those problems people have because they're real. And if it's real to you, it's valid no matter what it is. And I just don't struggle with that as much because a lot of things that are problems to others just aren't to me. Does it come with any fear? Like my mom had a really serious accident when I was two. And I think it came with gratitude,

but it also came with a lot of fear that like in a second your whole life could transform in this way. Like this had a ripple effect that impacted dozens of people in every direction. And so I have been working through that fear for my entire life. I'm curious if you've had to struggle with any fear around that. So I think with any given problem, or any given situation, you go one of two ways. It's like, you know, you see somebody crumble because of financial problems. And that either makes you not care about money or really care about money, you know? And so with what you've just given, I have very much experienced anything can happen at any time.

But I don't live in fear of it. I have the opposite impact on my life where I'm like, well, anything can happen at any time. So let's just focus on right now. thankfully for me. I have plenty of other situations in my life where it's been the opposite effect. But with that specific thing, watching my mom and she had a brain aneurysm when I was in eighth grade on top of the multiple sclerosis that was unrelated, like there have just always been health issues in our lives. And I think that it's had the effect of anything can happen at any time. So let's really focus on embracing and enjoying right now because we can't, we can't prepare for what.

what's to come. And if we spend all of our time right now trying to prepare, all that's happening is we're wasting this time because whenever that situation comes, whatever it may be, we're not going to have properly planned for it because we can't know every nuance of that scenario. So we're going to have to do all this again anyway. Yeah. I have had that experience, exactly that experience, trying to prep for everything in my head and then having it get me absolutely nowhere. Yeah. And it's easy to do. It's so easy to do. And I'm, don't listen to me and think that I never do that.

I'm not saying that by any means. But it's, it's a hard line to walk, you know, just trying to figure out how much do I plan in order to be prepared without getting so pulled into it that all I'm doing with my life is preparing. It's really good advice for something like a wedding day too, because that's this day that you've spent all of this money on, you spent all of this preparation, and you really want to be present.

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Is there anything that you did to help you soak in those moments on that day? Yeah. I woke up with the mindset of no matter what happens today, it's a memory. And so it doesn't matter if things go horribly wrong and it pours rain and my pictures are horrible. and it's not anything that I had ever thought it would be. It's a memory. And if it's wild and crazy, we're going to laugh about it. And if it's just like beautiful and perfect, we'll happy cry about it. You know, it's just prepare for any of it and realize that it's all, you're just living.

And it's all just mems. That was one of my biggest, a lot of my wedding regrets are kind of tied up in, I don't know, these little silly things. Like I really hated my hair and makeup and I wish I'd done it myself so that I looked like myself. I hate that we got married young and didn't know that like you could get men's suits tailored. And that didn't occur to me before the wedding. So Zach, when we look at the photos, Zach's suit is just like kind of ill-fitting. And I don't know. Like it bugs me or that I didn't get a spray tan, which normally I'd never get them. But I had like swimsuit lines and strapless stress. And it's interesting because as I've gotten older and gotten to do more

professional photo shoots, I've been able to let go of some of these things and be like, oh, these aren't the only really beautiful pictures of me and my husband I'm ever going to get. I have all of these other photos. So then these photos can just be like capturing a memory, which can include swimsuit lines and an ill-fitting suit and all of that. Well, and it was what it was and how fun to look back and see how far you guys have come. I think we get so caught up. And this goes for weddings and children and graduations and all these big life moments.

We get so caught up and everybody being like, well, high school's the best years of your life. Oh, your wedding's the best day of your life. Oh, having kids, that's the best day of your life. And we're all living for these moments trying to make the best of our lives perfect. But it's not. It's the in-between moments.

It's the getting to look back and see how far you've come and how much you've grown. And if we could change that mindset of living for all of these big moments and realizing the in-between is where all the joy comes and the relationships happen and the really good insightful conversations that bring us so much joy and those relationships on the big days, maybe we would be less disappointed in what those days are meant to be. I completely, completely agree. And from a pragmatic perspective, I would say one of my biggest tips for people is, to schedule other professional photo shoots in your life because it does help to like zoom out a little bit and it takes I think I think one of the reasons weddings have so much pressure is because it's so much money and I have never in my life spent that much money on a single day ever. So I remember even when

I was waking up, I was like, I was like eating my breakfast and I was like, this is the most money you'll ever spend on a single day. Like you better enjoy it. And like every moment I was acutely aware of that. But I also think because of the photos and everybody's so focused on the photos and you've got to get these photos, which I'm sure you're aware of as somebody who used to photograph weddings, it compounds that pressure. And so I always tell people like when you go on a fun vacation, if you can, like book a professional photo shoot then or just one day when you're feeling really good, it's expensive and don't do it like, you know, all the time, maybe do it once a year, once every few years or something. But having other professional photos really takes the pressure

off of that day, I think. I agree with that. And the thing is, there are so many ways to get professional photos that aren't booking an entire session. All kinds of photographers do minis, and they do all these different things

where you can go in. You don't have to go do a two-hour four-outfit change session. And I talk about that a lot on my channel. I even encourage people just to get out with your iPhone and take pictures for five minutes, you know, once a week.

Portrait mode makes everybody look like the like stunning. Yes. And so you have all of these things at your fingertip. And also you're going to get a lot more comfortable in front of the camera. If you do that for three minutes and aren't critiquing yourself and not pulling yourself apart with this picture because you're going to take another one in a week anyway. So if that one's not the perfect one, you know, like just make it documenting, bring back documenting things, you know. Yes, instead of having to like look super perfect and hot and having it be all about how good you look, make it more like a documentarian style.

Yeah, well, something I've learned as I've gotten older is I have really gone out searching for the bad photos of me from high school, from college, because I like remembering her. Like I look at all of the perfect photos that I posted and shared. And it's not that I wasn't her too. but there's a huge piece of me missing in that story. And so I've gone back and I've printed the ones that didn't make the cut. What a message about that you are giving yourself about that you're lovable all the time. You're not just lovable when you look how society has deemed is the best way to look, you know?

Well, and no one looks like that all the time. I don't care who you are. I don't care if, I don't know. Natalie Portman maybe looks good all the time, but probably not, like to her, you know. And so we get so caught up, seeing everybody's best. And I think that that is my, it's why I wanted to exit the wedding world is things had gotten so caught up in, we were starting to create moments instead of capture them. I would walk in, I'd be like, oh, oh, my sister needs to put my shoe on again.

I'm going to sit over here and I'm going to. And I think that I took part in this too where I was like, oh, no, no, no, come put the shoe on over here. The lights better and this. And, you know, I think it's easy to contribute to that. And the further I got into it, the more I started to wonder, is this really what this is supposed to be about? It's not. That's actually one of my regrets is I went for a more stylistic photographer. And I really wish I'd gone for more of like a documentarian style where the,

They're just, we don't have a lot of those playful in-between moments captured for the day. And one of my favorite things that I did is we got a videographer and that has a lot more of that sense. But I do wish I had more of those kind of like little snaps of people chatting in the corner and capturing the vibe of the day versus these pretty posy moments of the day. And I tell people all the time, all the time, a photographer and a videographer are not the same. and if you can wiggle around your budget to fit in both, you need both. Our videographer is, that is one of my top things that we did for the wedding. It captures the spirit and the energy of the day in a way that I don't think photos are

capable of doing. I completely agree. And you can get like your speeches not just recorded by a friend with like a shaky iPhone, you know, like I just think it's, it's those are the memories of the day or our vows or our friend played the violin. Here comes the sun as we like walk down the aisle and we have that captured on and we can hear it and listen to it and it brings us back to the day. And I, our videographer was probably, I would say, our best spent money for the wedding. I love that. I love that so much. Mine was my flowers. Okay. Tell me about your flowers.

I love flowers. And so I don't think that this would be the most important thing to most people. but gosh, I don't know. When else do you get to do that? When else do you have an excuse to do that? I mean, I wiggled around everything in my budget so that I could have just an abundance of flowers. Because it's something I appreciate and that I just love. And we went all out with it. We really did.

What did you have? So we had them along the aisle. And then whenever you got down to the end of our aisle, there was a semicircle that surrounded us of florals. and then my dad built us this big white arch that we're actually working on moving into the moving truck today because it's going to get cemented into the ground at our new house. Oh my gosh, that's so romantic. That's like so cute to picture you guys just like hanging out,

walking through your wedding arch. Yeah, so we'll have our arbor from our wedding at our new house, which I'm very, we've been keeping it in the garage for three years waiting until we have a house that we know we're going to stay in. And so I'm really excited about that. And what else did we have? We had this giant runner. So instead of a like tablecloth runner, we just did wood tables.

And then we did a floral runner. Oh my God. So we did too long. We just did brunch with our family. And it was only 40 people. So we had two long family style tables that had a floral runner all the way down the center. And that went down the ends of the table. Are you comfy talking about money stuff?

Yeah. Can I ask how much you spent on flowers? I didn't. I traded. Oh, interesting. Yeah, but I do know how much they would have cost. They would have retailed around 15,000. Whoa.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it would have been a big floral budget. Like you did photography for the flower shop? Yeah, the florist that did my wedding was getting, well, she'd actually been married for 20 years.

Actually, maybe longer than that. But they never had a wedding. So she used to work at a floral shop in high school. And on her lunch break, her husband came and said, do you want to get married? And they went to the courthouse and got married as like, you know, they were teenagers. I think they were like 17 or 18. And they never had a wedding, but she's this vendor in the wedding world.

And she had this big, beautiful wedding and I photographed it. What were some other favorite things that you did? We had a family friend sing for me walking down the aisle. And she was really young at the time. I think she's a freshman in college now. So she would have been maybe 14 or 15, probably 15 at the time. And she sang, can't help falling in love as I walked down the aisle. And she's fantastic.

So that was just really cool. Any way that you can involve your loved ones. My sister was our, what word am I looking for? Aficient. Officiant. You got it. I just officiated my first wedding. So I am, you know, very immersed in the officiant world.

I'm a professional now if anybody out there needs my services. I love it. Yeah, my sister got her certification and officiated, which was really special. And she put all kinds of effort into that. And it was just, it was good. And I was like it's horrifically nerve-racking. Like you feel like the weight of somebody's special day is like in your hands. I put so much effort.

Like it's like a fun thing when your friends ask you to do it. And you're just like, oh, yeah, it's so fun. And then you're just like, oh, my God. could ruin their wedding. You're like, they will always, they'll look back on this forever. Forever. Like, if I faint or like, my mind goes to these like worst case scenarios. I'm like, what if I pass out when I'm like doing the thing and I take the attention

away from them and. Well, and when you've been to as many weddings as I've been to, like I've seen stuff happen. Oh my God. Wait, can you tell me? Like, what have you, what's some crazy stuff you've seen? I had two bridesmaids pass out in Catholic ceremonies. And then I had another bridesmaid who, passed out in a wedding. It was hot. And this was wild because I don't know if she was locking her

knees. I don't know what the scenario was. But before she went down, her husband from the audience comes barreling by me mid ceremony, but very sly, like very sneakily while also. And he catches her before she passes out from the back of the venue. So he knew. He saw something in her where he knew she was going down. Yeah, and he caught her and there was a back door and he just caught her and like carried her out the back door. Nobody even knew it happened. What?

Yes. Yes. It was, I was like, wow. That was impressive. I'm curious in all of the weddings that you've seen, has there ever been something that like actually did have a real negative effect on a wedding, like where somebody fainted and it caught like, or it rained or some, these things we. worry about. Did anything ever actually, quote unquote, like ruin a wedding? Not that I ever saw.

And I said that to all my brides as they stressed. I'm like, I haven't been to one where they're not married at the end yet. But are they married and happy with how the day went at the end. Yeah. I'm like, well, I always said that to my brides because it's like kind of a reminder of what is the goal of today. Right. Truly. But the goal, if your goal is just to get married, you could go to the court house and do it with all the pomp and circumstance. But like, for sure. If you're a pomp in ceremony, but like if a wedding is sort of about the party and the community and everybody having a good time. And so you want, I would say to have a wedding be good is different than the goal of just like signing the certificate. I agree. I can agree with that. I never had anybody actively seen disappointed at the end of the night.

I had, I feel like the times that I've had brides be disappointed in their day is more, has always been, been more based in it didn't look how they thought it wasn't the feelings of the day it wasn't somebody passing out it wasn't the food not being right it's them thinking they're not enough after being like oh well I don't look as skinny in my dress as I wanted to or my makeup wasn't you know and it's not so much the feelings of the day it's when they get photos back and they're like, oh, in my head I had so much fun and I thought that that fun looked different than it does. So I have very strong thoughts on the shedding for the wedding concept, but I feel like you will as well and I would love to hear yours. Screw that. Yeah. I don't I don't get it. I and I feel that way

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Because I think that it sounds obvious when you say it, but everything we've been told by the media is not separating those two things. People even, I remember, it took me years to think about working out as not something for how my body looked, but something for how my body felt. And I remember I went to the gym with my dad when I was like 15. And my dad was like, I'm at the gym so that I can keep. keep hiking in the high Sierra for as long as possible. And I could and I was like, no, I'm at the gym so I can like lose weight and be skinny. And we got in this huge argument because I was a hundred

percent positive that everybody there was there so they could lose weight and be skinny. And he was a hundred percent positive that everybody was there so they could like feel their best in their body. But I just, I don't think it's obvious to people. I think so few people are there so that they could feel best in their body. I'm with you. So, so, So dad. If you're listening to this. He's living in a better world, I think, like in his brain, you know? He is how I 100% think that's how people should be.

But I don't think that that's, I don't think we're there. And I think right now we're going through this really interesting season in social media where we show all of these like before and afters and we get upset with people when they share too many pictures of them looking good. Because we're like, we need the real stuff. and I also have a huge, I take big issue with that because I'm like, why are people required to bear everything online, but we're not required to challenge our mindset of thinking we're seeing everything about people online? Can you speak to that a little bit more?

Yeah. So when you go to somebody's page and you're scrolling through and you're like, oh, they're perfect. They look perfect in every picture. they feel perfect. They, I think we as individuals should be challenging that mindset and be thinking to ourselves, we need to get to the point with our culture that even if somebody shares only perfect things online, that obviously their life isn't perfect because that doesn't exist.

I agree. I think it's hard to do, though. Like I work in social media. I know that even though I make a great effort to kind of be as real. and authentic and all of that is possible online, I still know that I'm portraying a, just because like literally when you're laying on the couch depressed, you're not going to take out your phone and be like,

hey guys, laying on the couch depressed, like great debt. You know what I mean? It's just they, those moments don't lend themselves to being captured in the same way. No, and I completely agree. And that's, that's why I really would love to see like our culture and the way that we utilize it to,

to shift so that we, we we as a culture like are realizing that we're not spending every moment documenting every thing and that we're stopping like I think there's this big problem where we fill in the gaps of people's stories and we fill in the gaps with all positive it's all good stuff for everybody else and then when other people look at us we're like well all the gaps are bad stuff why aren't you seeing that yeah it honestly like if you actually think about it, it makes more sense that the gaps would be bad stuff. So if you're going to assume either way, it would make more sense that the things you're not capturing are not the best things.

Right. And I think if we could get there, and I don't think we will. So I mean, that's not realistic. Let's be honest. But I'm just trying to walk that line for myself right now of how much I'm really comfortable sharing. Like, I don't care if I look in everybody else's eyes, horrible. I will happily share it because it's just comfortable for me. But the problem I have is whenever we start being expecting that from everyone, like I just don't think that should be the expectation of people online. And I don't love the way that we're like feeding that because then online becomes this weird mix of everybody's just announcing pregnancies because that drives interaction. And we're announcing all this negative stuff because that drives.

drives interaction. Like, everything is based on what drives interaction instead of just living. Just living. I do also love how forthright you are about the genetic component. Like, I've seen people ask you on like Instagram Q&As and stuff like that. How do you get your body? And you're like, this is my body. Like, I'm not doing immense efforts to get it this way. And I think if more people, there's so many influencers, fitness influencers, wellness influencers, all that that people follow because they want to get their body somehow. And I'm like, their body is their body. One, probably because they're 22.

And two, because they were born that way. And if you're a 35-year-old woman trying to get this 22-year-old body who was literally born that way, you're just going to set yourself up for disappointment. And that's where I'm loving seeing these campaigns where we're using a lot more inclusive body types for so long. We've seen the same body type across the board. And I think that that really mess. with us to the point that we're like, oh, any of us can look like that if we lose enough weight.

Yeah, that's not, that's not the, not so much the circumstance. Like my back end is never going to fit into, it doesn't matter how much weight I lose. I will, I'm never going to look like that. And we all have different assets and things that are deemed beautiful culturally. And we also have things that we're going to have to come to terms with and find beautiful for ourselves. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that changing yourself, just to bring it back to the wedding, changing yourself on this day that is about celebrating that you found a person who loves you exactly as you are just feels so, like, it feels so messed up to me.

Like, I'm just like, this is, you found somebody. Like, you achieve the dream. You found somebody who loves you. Why would you change yourself then? Because of everybody else's perception. and that's the part that's so tough. And that's that, I mean,

that brings it all the way back around to what I said at the beginning. The best weddings I've ever been to are the weddings where they're just doing them and everybody is celebrating it. Whether they are the healthiest they've ever been, they're not, whatever. In this moment,

we're celebrating where we are and how happy we are to be there. And I, I think that more weddings should be that way. Do you have any practical advice for somebody who wants their wedding to be there like that, but they can't emotionally, mentally get there? Yeah. I think the most important thing is really think about not with your wedding, just in day-to-day life,

where are you the happiest? Really take that into consideration. For me, that's surrounded by my family and friends. Like my happiest memories are at the same. the lake house, you know, mornings making breakfast with my entire family and we're just making jokes and laughing and the kids are running around. Like those to me are some of the moments that I'm most at peace. And I really tried to focus on that. And then think about how I could incorporate that and make that a wedding. Yeah, we actually did the same thing even though I didn't think about

it that way where I was like my favorite experience is an outdoor dinner party that goes. like late into the night and everybody's chatting and meeting new people and having all these like first you're talking to the person across the table and then you're talking the person next to you. And so we ended up doing this two long tables all outside. We rented a house on VRBO and the wedding party all stayed there. So it just felt like it felt very communal and like it was really focused on the gathering of the people. And everybody, my favorite part of our wedding is that we have like we had friends from London come in. and New York and then we got married in Sonoma. And now all of our friends are friends,

like our friends from London will like ask about our friends in San Francisco and our friends in New York, like know our parents. And I think that's such a cool thing about a wedding that's underdiscust is that your community all becomes a community. Yeah. And I agree. That's my favorite part too. And I just, any way that you can get in that mindset of instead of thinking about how it can be perfect, like not necessarily thinking about how you want it to look, but how you want it to feel. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Okay, any other things that you really love that you did that were maybe a little bit a traditional? Getting married in the morning. Oh, interesting. Tell me about that. We loved it. So our wedding was supposed to happen at 9.30. And we were ready at 930, but our guest didn't

roll in until about 10. And so we just waited until everybody got there. And then Matt and I did not see each other until walking down the aisle. Oh, okay. What are your thoughts on like the first look versus the walking down the aisle looking? I don't think there's a right answer. I think you have to do what is important and feels right to you. My assistant is actually getting married this weekend. And they're doing breakfast together the morning of their wedding and then not seeing each other until she walks down the aisle. Okay. So like she won't be in her dress or like they'll just have like a cute casual breakfast. I love that. That's a. a really sweet idea. I loved that because I was like, well, that's a good way for them to get the nerves

off and have some time together and still have this first look walking down the aisle that was important to her. And I think you just really have to search. And again, what's most comfortable to you? What feels right to you? I don't think there's a right answer. I really wanted it to be first time walking down the aisle because I just like the tradition of it. But I also knew that wasn't going to work for us to not see each other all day. So I was like, perfect. We'll just get married at 9 a.m. Which I imagine was also better for your mom with her energy and all of that. Yes, 100%. And so it worked out great for us. And we got to spend the whole day together still. I'm also, for a lot of people, I know that wouldn't work because they want to do the whole nine

yards. They have eight bridesmaids and they want all their hair and makeup done. And, you know, which is also wonderful. But, you know, it took me an hour to get ready. I had friends doing my hair and makeup and it just was really laid back and I loved that we did it that way. It was nice and cool and there was a breeze and we got to be outside and I don't know that I see a lot of morning weddings and then we got to have brunch, which is my favorite food. And the food at our wedding was my host so good. They rocked it. And I just really, I enjoyed that the morning thing. So I'd say that's like the biggest. We also, the other thing that we did is at the end of the night. night. So the wedding wrapped around 3.30 and everybody kind of left. And we headed down to my parents

place on the lake. And we took the see-dew out in my wedding dress and his suit. And so we got on my sea-due and we took off on the lake and got pictures and they got aerial footage of that because my parents got married at Table Rock Lake in Missouri. And they spent the morning of their wedding out on the water together. And so we finished our night on the water together there. love that. I love that. I think it's so interesting. A great thing about weddings is like, what are you going to do that feels really you? But also, what are you going to incorporate that feels really connected to tradition and history? And I think that's a really fun way to bring in those family ties. Yeah. And I, like, that stuff's really important to me. And I really think that

that's what the ideal wedding's all about is seeking out what's important to you. What are you and your person that you're marrying value and how can you make it memorable and about you all and just enjoyable? Did you and Matt always value the same things or did you ever have points where he prioritized something that you did or vice versa? I am married to somebody that doesn't have a whole lot of opinions about much. Like he's just kind of along for the ride and occasionally he will have something that he's not that is like a non-negotiable for him like he really was picky about how his suit looked did he know that you can get men suits tailored yes he did he did not get his suit tailored but he did know uh i think that we actually ended up hemming it with like iron on hem tape

like the day before that's very much our vibe but there are a few things and it was the same thing with our house renovation that we've been doing now uh there are all always a few things that are sticking points that he's really adamant about. But because he's so flexible and everything else, if there's something he wants, I'm usually like, great, it's yours. Like, you want your suit like that? I love it. You should have that. So we don't really, we didn't have a lot of conflict about that. My sister, however, is a major introvert that married the like popular guy that, you know, is friends with everybody. So I know that they really had to work in balancing that. And I watched them navigate that. And it was interesting. I think it was just

a lot of give and take and making sure that what they created was a place that they both felt safe. Well, and I also think to take a little lesson from how you're and Matt's dynamic is too, is to really ask yourself, like, what are the very important things and what are the things that you can like let go of a little bit? You know what I mean? So like he seems like he knows those very important things and then doesn't care about everything else, which makes it easy. But I also think sometimes we have these things. They're like medium important or low important, but we accidentally group them in with the very, very important. And then that's what you can get kind of stuck, especially when you're trying to compromise with a partner. Yeah. And we really try to gauge

who is this more important to? Because usually it's one of us. You know, usually there's a clear winner of like the suit. Okay. So maybe it wasn't the right suit for the look I wanted for my photos, I don't, I didn't have a problem with it. But like, you know, like you could run into something like that. Like I really want you to wear a black tucks and, you know, your significant other really wants to wear a blue suit. Is the look of the photos going to impede the way that you feel while you're getting married? Okay. Is wearing what he doesn't want to wear going to impede how he or she's feeling, you know? And if it's going to impede how they're feeling, I think that that has more value. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. Is there anything? Look,

back that you wish you had done differently? We would elope if we went back. Really? Yeah. Where would you elope to? Doesn't matter. The courthouse. I don't care.

You just want to do a party. It's so interesting to hear you say that as a wedding photographer, as I don't know, it's interesting. What would be the reason for that? I loved our day. I did. But I think we would have enjoyed it just as much to just go get married. and then go have dinner with all of our friends or, you know, I don't think the how we did it

mattered as much as I thought it did. I think for me, like earlier you were saying, I said at the end, everybody's been married. And, you know, to your point, you said to some people, the wedding's really important, the party's important. And I don't know that I'm one of those people. But I didn't know that until we'd done it. And I loved our wedding. I don't have regrets. I don't have, I don't look back and go, I really wish we would have done that or this. I'm like, you know, that's who I was in that season. And we did it. And we celebrated and we were surrounded by people who love us.

And if I had to do it again, I don't know that I need that. That's so interesting. I'm like the opposite. Like for me, the wedding was such a fun and like once in a lifetime opportunity to bring all of these disparate people. from these disparate parts of my life together. And one of my biggest regrets is that, so we got married young for our friend group. We live in a different part of the country than you.

So we'd been dating for nine years. And everybody was like, when are you getting married? Like I had very much internalized the narrative of, oh, if you love me, he'd be proposing to me. And I would say that to him when we were drunk every time. And finally, he proposed to me. And we got married. How old were you?

We were 29 when he proposed. We met in college. And he like had all these. I do think a lot of times we're like, oh, if he loved me, he would propose to me right now. And it was really way more about the place that we were in our lives. Like, he was in graduate school. And he was like, I don't want to propose while I'm in graduate school. I want to feel like I have my life more together.

And so many people I talk to who aren't proposing and the other person thinks it's because they don't love them enough. It's like actually because they don't feel like they're financially secure enough or they don't feel like they're in like the right place in their life. But we got married. And now I'm like, God, I wish we had waited longer because I feel like I made a lot of my forever friends shortly after that. I was coming out of this extreme anxiety period of my life. And I still had a lot of those residual things. And I don't feel like I had very good taste, which, you know, it's a moment in time. Good memories all of that.

No matter what, though, I feel like that is just, it gets bad no matter what. Yeah. I mean, you're never going to look back and be like, my taste was perfect, like 10, 20, whatever, years ago. But I just, I, it's so funny because I was in such a rush to have this huge life event. And ultimately, my biggest regret is that I didn't wait longer to do it. And a lot of that is about that community element of being like, I wish the people who are in my life now could have been part of this special. day and met all of these other people in my life. I'm genuinely confused how masterclass gets literally the absolute top people in every single

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and we're going to go and you invite your friend that's from here and we're going to bring and we're going to meet. I think that that makes a lot of sense what you're saying. And I think I really want to encourage people to know they can keep doing things like that. Yeah, I completely agree. I'm going to my friend's 30th birthday in Miami in two weeks. And I do think that have you, do you remember, did you watch sex in the city or no? Yeah.

Do you know the like a woman's right to shoes episode where Carrie's, like, Carrie's, like she loses her shoes at like a baby shower. And then she like adds up how much money she's spent on gifts over the years. And I do think that episodes makes this really strong point about what we choose to celebrate societally. And I think to your point, we can choose what we celebrate societally. Like we can say my birthday is important. I, me getting my master's degree is important. You know, like me getting this job promotion is important.

Maybe you don't do like a trip or a huge party for it. But you get all your friends together and have. like a big dinner to celebrate. You get to choose the life circumstances that are worth applauding. And it's so interesting too, I'm kind of backtracking to hear 29 be young for you. And I wish more people could hear that where I live. Because on my podcast, and all the time we get these girls writing in who are in their mid-20s who think they're going to be alone forever. That's why. I have friends who are like that. And I'm just like, once you meet your partner, who's your life partner, like that's the rest of your life. Like if I could go back and enjoy all of

these single years of, you know, it's so great to have a life partner, but you do have a different set of responsibilities of, you're always considering another person and that's beautiful, but also you have this very short period where you don't have to do that at all. Right. And I just don't think anywhere in your 20s, that's something you need to be worrying about that, period. I completely agree. I think aware, like, it's such an interesting pressure to me too. Same with having kids, I think. Like, obviously there's the biological components. But outside of that, like, once you have a kid, that is forever.

So I'm often kind of like, why are we rushing to this thing that's going to change our lives forever, rather than enjoying this brief moment where we have, you know, something different going on? Is there any thing you would say to that person who is like, I'm like never going to meet my partner. I'm in my 20s. What's going to happen? Like who doesn't feel like their life is matching the schedule of what life is supposed to look like? Yeah. I would tell that person that you are who you have. And this season that feels maybe lonely and isolating is an opportunity to get to know you and learn to love time on your own and find things you're passionate about and to seek those out.

And slowly but surely, it's going to be hard at first to go do that stuff by yourself. But the more you do it, the more you're going to realize that you're surrounded by people, everywhere, new people to meet. And you're not the only one, as lonely as it may feel, that's in that situation. And you'll be running the same pace soon with a group that is your community. And it'll all fall into place. I also think there's something really beautiful about having friends. I think you need the friends that are kind of in the same life phase as you, but I also love,

like I don't have kids. A lot of my friends have kids. I love ducking into their lives and getting to be the person who's not tired at all, who like they can move plans on me 45 times. And I'm like, that's cool. Like I don't have something more important than this to do. I get to hold the baby, hang out with the baby, and then like go back to my cat. And it's fun to have these little other lives you can kind of like try on for a second,

even if it's different than your own. Right. And I really encourage people who are choosing to have kids and are in that season that you don't have to stop doing the other stuff either. You know, it's about Matt and I really work to balance ourselves as parents so that we both still get to go out and be ourselves and have our independent time. and, you know, I have a group of girlfriends that all have kids. And once a month, we all go to dinner, no kids, you know, with no time that we have to be back.

And we're really intentional about making things like that happen consistently. And I think it's easy to push yourself off. And like, again, it takes it back to the beginning. It's easy to prioritize other people because it's like, well, you can cope with hurting your own feelings. But we shouldn't. we should focus on appeasing ourselves in some capacity and making sure that we're getting taken care up first so that we can better serve the people around us. And I would also say that while it may feel like in the moment you can cope with hurting

your own feelings, that shit adds up over time. And that like leads to this much deeper, more uncomfortable pain, I think. So I think you can, you maybe feel like you can cope with it, but I don't know if we can really cope with it, you know? Without a doubt, I completely. agree with that and think that's a really good point. Can you leave us with just maybe like one or two very pragmatic, like, this is how you hire a photographer that you're going to like or just like very actionable tips for having a wedding that is going to feel good to you?

Absolutely. Okay, for vendors, always make sure that you are getting on the phone with them. That's my number one thing. Don't purely pick on style and editing. Those are important factors and make sure you like their style and editing. But once you've found a group of photographers that you know you like those things, get on the phone and make sure you vibe with them and that it's somebody you would want to spend time with.

It's the biggest day of your life up to this point, you know, and that's what you want it to be and are planning for. And this person is going to be with you all day. You're going to spend more time with that photographer and videographer than you will with your partner that day. It's actually crazy that that's true, you know? Yeah. So make sure you like them.

Make sure that you guys share a sense of huge. and that they're going to add to your day. We left our wedding feeling like our photographers and videographers were our friends, you know, and that's how it should feel. And so make sure to get them in a situation where you can have those conversations and absolutely value the way that you guys interact over the perfect editing and the perfect everything else. That stuff is important.

But I think the way that you get along is absolutely. number one. And then the second thing that I always tell people when they're planning a wedding, if you're at the very beginning and you're trying to find all of these vendors, go ahead and pick your top three things, no matter what they are. What is it? Photographer, videographer, flowers, photographer, live band food, whatever it is. Open bar photographer. Maybe photographer's not in it. I'm going to keep putting photographer in the top three because that's what I did. But whatever it is, go ahead and mark those top three and prioritize those in your budgeting and get that taking care of first thing. And then everything else you can play the puzzle of,

we need to find something a little bit less here or a little bit, you know, don't skimp on those top three things. And would that be your top three and your partner's top three? Because then you could end up with six if they're different. I think you discuss and decide what your top three are together. Together. I think typically like what Matt and I did was I picked one, he picked one, and then we picked one together. Like Flowers was my number one. Videography was important to him. And then our photographer was our combined that we both knew. If I had to say a few quick, super pragmatic things, I would say one, if you can make it multiple days, which I think you did too, do it. It's so much pressure to put on one day. So we did the rehearsal dinner, the wedding, and then we did a brunch. next day and everybody also was from out of town. So they came in for the weekend. We had like activities all week. You could float on the river. You could go wine tasting. And I think anything,

one creates that really communal energy, but it also gives you, you're never, our wedding was tiny, like a hundred people. And I still don't feel like I had the opportunity to talk to everybody there. But the more separate events, you have the more your chances go up to actually talk to your guess, which is important, I think. brunch the morning after our reception and we loved that. What's so fun, you can also like, it's like after going to big party, you want to like be like, oh my gosh, did you see like we had this one couple and they had the best salsa moves and everybody was talking about it the next day and we're like, did you know they could salsa like

that? And it's fun to kind of like, like, who is making out and who snuck off into the woods and all of that. Like it's fun to talk about all that stuff post facto. Yes, for sure. And then if I were to say another one, it's to find some time. to be alone with your partner. So you didn't do first look. We did a first look in the Redwoods, which was like five minutes from our venue. And I just remember driving into the Redwood Forest

and seeing Zach, all of the stress of the day went away. And I felt so calm and so peaceful. And it was the nature. But it was also like you've said so many times, just a reminder of why we were there and what the day was about. And so I think whether you do a first look or you have your breakfast together or some little moment. Exactly. Like some moment to be like, this is about us. Like to bring that focus back to like that partnership, I think is really important and special.

I completely agree. For us, we went on on the C-Doo. I love that. So because it was just the two of us and we were out there on the lake and just it was quiet. And I completely agree. I have a lot of couples who have done private dinner. So everybody will get served their dinner and they have a quiet. private dinner, lots of different options for that throughout the day. Yeah, I completely agree. And then

the last thing I would say, and I think this has been the theme of the episode, but more than you even think relentlessly questioning every single thing that you're doing, like, you can be told that weddings have to include table settings or glassware of a certain type, or you have to do favors, or you have to do cake. We didn't do cake. We did cotton candy and said because neither of us like cake. And you know, I love cotton candy. I love, we did gourmet. We had like a like a macha black sesame one. We had like these really phenomenal cotton candy flavors. Yeah, it was amazing. And it was way cheaper than the cake, you know, would have been. So I think relentlessly questioning, do I want flowers? Do I not want flowers? What type of dress do I want to wear? Do I need to include

anything? Like, nothing is required. I think literally getting it into your brain, nothing is required. Right. You can you can throw out every tradition if you want. Literally every single one. You could have a clown costumed person marry you. You could have a guinea pig walk down the aisle as flower pig. You can dress as a clown and get married. If that feels good to you, like if you're your clown posse, you would enjoy that. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's my biggest point to ride home is it's nobody's day, but you and your partners. Yeah. And I think that it can be easy to view that from the overall,

but in the nitpicky moments, you're like, well, we have to dance after this. You know, you have to have music, whatever. I have a friend who skipped dancing entirely. And while I love dancing, like that's my favorite part of weddings, but it felt true to her to not have that. So like relentlessly, every single moment questioning, like, is this what I want or is this just what I've been told? I had a bride.

I think this has been one of the most eye-opening weddings I'd ever had. who didn't have us photograph or be there for the first look. Like she wanted their first look to be completely private, not documented. They had no dancing. It was just a formal dinner. And then, and it was just, it was totally different than anything I had ever been to. But I loved it because it was what she wanted.

Those things didn't, like, if you don't, there are things that you're not comfortable with somebody there documenting. You can have it with the privacy of just you and your, partner. It's okay to want that. I think it's so interesting how many life lessons there are, though, wrapped up into this iconic day. It's like people are going to judge everything, figure out what's important to you, prioritize relentlessly, a few good people is better than a lot of people that you're kind of man. Like there's so many things we can take and apply to our normal lives that

just come from this wedding concept. I completely agree. And also, it is okay. It is okay. if you value things that are different from your friends in your wedding day. They can both, like, I could have meh food and amazing flowers, and it's a spectacular experience for my friends, and you could have spectacular food and not as many flowers, and it still be a spectacular experience for your family and friends. And again, for everyday life. Like, it's practice. Everyday life is practice for accepting that concept at your wedding, and your wedding is

practice for accepting that concept in your everyday life, I think. Yes, exactly. This was so fun. Can you just tell us a little bit? I feel like you're doing all sorts of fun stuff, but do you want to tell us a little bit about what you're up to online these days and your own words? Yeah. So I'm on TikTok and Instagram and Pinterest at Joe Johnson Overby. I primarily share lifestyle content just of my family. And we are finally at the very end of a very long renovation for a multi-generational home. My family will be living with us part time. And so I share about all of that.

I have a podcast at Middleground Podcast. And that comes out every Monday. It's about healthy mindset. And then I also, we have another podcast in the books that's going to be coming soon. Wait, tell me about it. Matt and I. Oh, I am so excited for this. Yeah.

So we're coming out with a podcast here this summer. Oh, my gosh. We don't have the official launch date. Well, I do. but we're hoping to move it up as we get through this move. But yeah, that's coming. And it's going to be a weekly podcast just about our lives. And we're going to talk with all the people that follow us online and our internet friends,

just about all the things. And I'm really looking forward to it. My husband is neurodivergent. So he's on the spectrum and has ADHD. And I am very neurotypical. And so we're kind of hoping to bring some attention to that and just the different communications. I'm also excited for you because you guys, I know you guys are like actual couple goals in so many different ways. But I'm also excited to see some real like relations.

I know you guys show that. But like it's always interesting to see these couples that you kind of put up on a super pedestal, which I do with you and Matt. Like you guys just seem like he's always down to do silly stuff with you and TikToks. and he's got the best hair I've ever seen. And you guys just seem so great. And obviously you are, but I love, Zach and I are so great. But, you know, there's also a million real relationship things happening behind the curtain. And I always love seeing that.

Well, it's filling in those gaps. Yeah. You know, no matter what there are gaps. And I think the really cool thing about podcasts and longer format content is you get to see an in-depth look into some of that and really see how people communicate. and I'm looking forward to people hearing that and seeing that and getting to know us a little better. And it's going to be a lot of fun. But yeah, so there's a lot of things rolling coming out this summer. And I'm really excited about all of it.

Amazing. I'm excited too. I'm really excited to see as you start to decorate that stunning house of yours. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for thinking of me and having me on. I hope you loved this episode with Joe. If you're new here, make sure that you're subscribed so you don't miss out on any future episodes.

We have amazing ones coming up, including a Stanford researcher sharing how to hack your epigenetics to transform your health and a money expert that you all love and have been asking for so long coming on to solve all of your money problems. If you love this episode, I would so appreciate you sharing a link on your social media or with someone in your real life who you think would benefit. It is such a different take on weddings and so counter to a lot of the bullshit that magazines tell us to value for the day and for our lives in general. And I so appreciate you spreading the message. It is the single best way that you can support the podcast, and I am massively grateful for it. Also, if you did love the episode, I would so appreciate a quick rating review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

I am so close to my goal of 2,000 reviews. and if only a tiny fraction of the people listening took a quick moment of their time to write one, we would far, far surpass that goal. Ratings and reviews really help other people find the podcast, and I read all of them, and I am so grateful for every single one. Okay, I love you, and I will see you next week on the next episode of the Healthier Together podcast.