The Liz Moody Podcast - What Made Me FINALLY Quit Drinking (And Exactly How You Can Do It Too)

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Today I’m breaking down what exactly intentional drinking means and exploring sober curiosity with my husband, Zack. I talk about my previous relationship with alcohol, factors that led me to drink less, and the positive impacts on my mental health and social life. I also offer up some tips for replacing alcohol with healthier habits, navigating social situations, and maintaining strong relationships without alcohol. The episode is packed with personal stories, scientific insights, and actionable advice for anyone looking to explore or transition to a more intentional approach to drinking. 00:00 Introduction 00:46 Defining Intentional Drinking 02:13 The Turning Point: Why I Stopped Drinking 05:14 Health Impacts of Alcohol 06:46 Finding Your Why and Mental Health 09:11 Tips for Avoiding Vices 13:20 Having Fun Without Alcohol 17:05 Navigating Social Situations 19:53 Work Social Events Without Drinking 20:58 Dealing with Anxiety and Alcohol 24:06 Encouraging Loved Ones to Stop Drinking 27:40 Strengthening Social Life Without Alcohol 30:28 Conclusion Check out the other episodes mentioned of The Liz Moody Podcast: The Health Effects Of Alcohol Part 1: Gut Health & Cancer with Dr. Robynne Chutkan & Dr. William Li The Health Effects of Alcohol: Hormones & Brain Health with Dr. Aviva Romm & Louisa Nicola  Manifest Like A Neurosurgeon: There IS Science Behind Manifestation (+ How To Use It To Get What You Want) Ready to uplevel every part of your life? Order Liz’s book The Science of Leveling Up Health, Happiness, Relationships & Success now!  To join The Liz Moody Podcast Club Facebook group, go to www.facebook.com/groups/thelizmoodypodcast. Connect with Liz on Instagram @lizmoody, or subscribe to her newsletter by visiting www.lizmoody.com. This episode is sponsored by: AG1: visit drinkag1.com/lizmoody and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today. The Liz Moody Podcast cover art by Zack. The Liz Moody Podcast music by Alex Ruimy. Formerly the Healthier Together Podcast.  This podcast and website represents the opinions of Liz Moody and her guests to the show. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for information purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions. The Liz Moody Podcast Episode 269. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Liz Moody podcast, where every week we are sharing real science, real stories, and realistic tools that actually level up every part of your life. I am your host, Liz Moody, and I'm a best-selling author and longtime journalist. Today, we are joined by a very special guest, my husband, Zach, and he is going to be asking me all of your questions about my sober curious journey, how I mostly cut out drinking, and we You will get into how it is mostly cut out, not completely cut out. I call myself an intentional drinker, which we can talk about. But, Zach, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. Should we get right into the questions? Let's do it. All right. Question one, what was your relationship with alcohol like before you became sober? So first of all, I'm not completely sober. I call myself an intentional drinker, which means that I'm not having a drink just because it's a Tuesday night and I've had a long day or because I'm out with friends and I want

to be social. I'm putting a lot of attentionality behind the times that I drink, which for me has resulted in me drinking maybe one or two times a year. That's typically because it's a really good glass of champagne. I love champagne, the little bubbles, or a really good cocktail. I feel like cocktails are really good mediums for flavor, things like pink peppercorn or Thai basil or just really interesting flavor combinations. And I love when we find a place that has great, great, great, mocktails, but if we're being very honest, those are fewer and far between than a great cocktail bar. So not completely sober. And this is important for me. I don't do well with a lot of restrictions. It brings me back to my eating disorder days, putting something completely off

limits makes me want it more. So it's been really helpful for me to identify as an intentional drinker, to not say this is completely off limits for me and I cannot have it at all. That said, I have never identified as an alcoholic. I have friends who do who are in AA. Alcohol is completely off the table for them and that works really well for them. So I think you have to kind of navigate and explore that for yourself, but has helped my journey quite a bit to say, if I want to drink, I can have one, but let's pay attention to how I feel and why I want one and what's the root of that. That said, before I became an intentional drinker, I drink a lot. I would say four or five nights a week. I was having at least one drink, usually two, and at least one day a week I was getting

properly drunk to the point where I would feel hungover the next day, which is actually a big reason why I decided to stop drinking because I did the math on that and I realized that I was feeling hungover 52 days a year, which is two months a year, I was sacrificing to feeling like crap of my own making. I was making myself feel bad for two months of a year. And, and I was making myself feel bad for two months of a year and knowing how short life is and how precious life is that just didn't sit right with me. So that was a big impetus for pulling back on my drinking quite a bit. But I think it's important to share with people if you're listening. It's not like I was a light drinker. It's not like I was this like super healthy person who never really had alcohol. And then I decided to become an

intentional drinker. And it was so, so easy for me. Like, no, I drank a lot. It was a core part of my social life. I absolutely did not think I would be able to quit drinking. I remember sitting there, it was like August of 2022, right? Yeah, August of 2022. And we were both talking about maybe stopping drinking. And I remember talking to you about like, how is this going to be possible? How are we going to have fun with our friends? What are we going to do in the evenings? How am I going to relax? It felt truly so difficult, almost impossible. So no matter where you're coming, from if you are interested in drinking less. I promise you can get there because I was sitting there and I was like, there's no way. It's interesting you say that because I feel like you talk

about like drinking a lot, but in contrast to the idea of intentional drinking, is this kind of like unintentional drinking? And I do feel like that was like a huge part of how we actually consumed alcohol. It wasn't that we were like, oh, finally, Tuesday nights come around. We can go get loaded. It was more like so much of social life, so much of society is basically just like... Have a drink. It goes alongside with a drink in hand. Movie theaters now, like, you know, like have a drink. Show up at a restaurant and the first thing they ask you is like, oh, what do you want to drink?

It's so ingrained in society. And it's hard to be aware of, am I doing this with intention or am I just doing this because it feels like the expectation at this moment? All right. Next question. What made you stop? What was the turning point? Okay, so it was August of 2022. We were still living nomadically at the time and we were in Squamish in British Columbia, which is the cutest little tiny mountain town.

We were having all of these friends come to visit us, which was amazing and so fun. But it meant that we were drinking most nights every single week because we'd have one friend come to town and we'd be doing all the fun stuff with them. And then that friend would leave and another friend would come in and we would get drunk with that friend. And we were drinking quite a bit to the point where I was really feeling it in my body in a way that I maybe hadn't been aware of as much before. And then at the same time, this study was published by The Lancet, which is a top-tier peer-reviewed journal. And the study found that drinking was the second leading cause of cancer right after tobacco use. And that blew my mind because in my head, smoking is concretely bad

for us. If I light up a cigarette and I smoked for years. But I kind of knew, even when I was, when I was doing it and I felt like I looked so cool. I was kind of like, I'm doing something that's bad for myself. I was aware of making that choice. And even though I knew that alcohol gave me hangovers, it didn't really connect that I was having this long-term negative impact on my body. And later, we did this entire series about the health impacts of alcohol on the podcast. It's a three-part series. I highly recommend it. I can link it in the show notes if you want to listen. But I interviewed all these different doctors about, first of all, their drinking habits, which was really fascinating, but also all of the different detrimental impacts that alcohol has on our

body, that it has on our gut health, that it has on our microbiome, that it has on our skin cells, that it has on our inflammation levels, and that it has on our cancer risk. And I found out that there is no amount of alcohol that does not increase your risk of cancer. And that was really frightening to me. It's very, very tied to an increased risk of breast cancer, and that's with any amount of alcohol, GI cancers, which both of those types of cancers are rising at a significant rate in young people. So I want to be aware of that and cautious of that in my body.

And then the third thing, I talk on the podcast a lot about finding your why. I have a tip in my book about this. And the idea is that if we don't know the reason behind what we are doing, we can very quickly bloat our schedules with all of these habits that we're trying to include. We can spend all of our money on supplements that we're taking and not even know what impact those supplements are supposed to be having. And a huge why that I have always had is my mental health. I suffered from pretty extreme anxiety.

I was agoraphobic for months where I would have panic attacks whenever I got out of bed. And a lot of my wellness journey has been about figuring out a way to not be in that place again, to live my happiest, most thriving, biggest feeling life. I knew that alcohol got in the way of that. It made me feel so anxious the next day. And it's having this real impact on your gobble levels in your brain that we talk about in that three-part health impacts of alcohol series, where it is on a neurochemical level making you feel more anxious.

So not only was I spending 52 days of my year in this state of low energy, of catharsis, of kind of this low-grade depression, but also I was increasing my mind. anxiety level significantly both on those days, but also because of that gaba impact, even on days that you're not drinking, you feel more anxious if you're regularly drinking quite a bit, which I was. So knowing that so much of my why was about trying to assuage my anxiety, trying to help my mental health, it felt really unaligned once I realized how much drinking was increasing my anxiety. It's like, why am I spending all of this time trying to get rid of my anxiety and then leaving in this huge thing that's increasing my anxiety?

So it was sort of the combination of those three things. And also, I think the fact that you wanted to do it at that time was really helpful for me as well. Yeah, the cancer study really was kind of a glass-shattering thing for me. And the other thing I think that pushed me over the edge was looking at my sleep tracking apps and saying, oh, well, even if I think I kind of got a good night's sleep, I'm actually looking at a higher heart rate, less sleep than average, less deep sleep than average. And that kind of got me worried as well because I think disrupting your sleep over long periods of time can be really bad for neurological health and kind of like long-term implications for that. Okay. So I want to keep going. I feel like when I give up one vice, I go to another.

Any tips for not doing that? I totally get this. I am very guilty of doing this as well. When I gave up drinking, I went through a whole period with eating sweets and candy and snacks. And I had a realization around this that was really helpful to me and hope. hopefully it will be helpful to anybody out there listening, which is from the podcast that I did with Dr. James Doty, he is a Stanford neuroscientist. One of the things that he talks about in that episode is the difference between hedonic pleasure and eutemonic pleasure. And hedonic pleasure

is that in the moment pleasure, that high, high, it can be from alcohol or drugs or gambling, briefly eating a snack, eating some candy, hits briefly, and then right afterwards, you're kind of feel a little empty. It does not stick around. It's not a sustainable form of pleasure. Shopping is a really big example of hedonic pleasure. You buy the shirt. You buy the purse and you have this vision of yourself with those things and how great it's going to make your life. And then studies show that that feeling of bliss and happiness just sharply, sharply declines. On the other hand, eutemonic pleasure is the pleasure that we get from connecting with other people, from connecting with our life purpose, from kindness, from service. You know the feeling you get when you help

somebody else out with something and you're just like glowing from within? That is eudamonic pleasure. And I think that jumping from vice to vice to vice to vice is an overfocus on hedonic pleasure and maybe it's because of an absence or lack of eudamonic pleasure. So I think a way that we can help with this, well, what do I replace this with? What do I replace this with? What do I replace this with would be to instead look at our eutomonic pleasure bucket and see if there aren't maybe a few holes in it, a few patches we could do, a few ways we could begin to fill that bucket, whether it's connecting more with other people. Do we feel a sense of loneliness? I know I definitely have struggled with that and I know a lot of people listening and struggle with that. It's a

real problem in today's world. So could we have more quality social interactions? Could we feel more connected to our partner, I think a lot of people feel really lonely within relationships, and that's a real struggle. Can we find more of our sense of purpose or service in our lives? And I think focusing on those things will help, and it has certainly helped me not be so focused on the different hedonic forms of pleasure. And that's not to say you can't incorporate hedonic forms of pleasure. James Doty was very clear in that episode to say, like, you can still enjoy nice things. You can still enjoy those hits of fun, but it's okay that they're fleeting and it's okay that they don't last because you have that foundation of eutomonic pleasure

that's really filling your cup up. When I also imagine there's types of hedonic pleasure that are less destructive than others. So picking the hedonic pleasure that's actually not going to do as much long-term damage is probably the call to make. A hundred percent. I think that asking yourself, are there forms of hedonic pleasure that don't get in the way of of my goals or don't make me feel the way that I don't want to feel. And then also I talked about this in my five ways I helped my phone addiction episode. But I have this list. It's called my what do I really need list? And whenever I'm reaching for my phone, I open this list in my phone. It's like, what do I really need? Do I need a break? Do I need to rest and relax? Do I need to

connect with somebody? And I have all these alternate options of things that I can do to actually scratch the itch of what I really need in that moment. And I think people can do the same thing for alcohol. I didn't do this in a formal way, but I started asking myself when I was reaching for drinks, what am I really looking for in this moment? Okay, so I feel tired at the end of a long day. Is there something else that maybe restores me really or makes me feel rested or makes me feel energized in the way that I want to feel energized? Maybe I want to feel a little goofier, a little sillier. Are there people who bring out those qualities in me that I could surround myself with? asking yourself why and what do I really need in this moment can be immensely helpful.

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Again, that's 15% off at oneskin.com with code Liz. How do you get to the times when you have that I just want to have fun feeling? And I feel like you can already answer some of this. Yes, but I have more to say. I want everybody listening to stop giving. giving alcohol credit for how amazing you are. We on a societal level give alcohol so much credit for all of our fun times. It does not deserve that. We are the ones out dancing and talking to people. And in fact, all alcohol is doing is making our conversations less witty, less sparkly,

and it's making it so that we're less likely to remember those conversations the next day. A huge turning point for me on my drinking less journey was realizing that I can have more fun when I am not drinking and that I am the one who is fun. Alcohol is not making me fun. Anything that I think that alcohol is contributing to my personality is already there, there's just a level of lack of inhibition that's letting those things rise to the surface. So the second I could prove to myself that those things were me, I could peel back those inhibitions and I could let those traits out on a more regular basis and I could feel in control of

them. My best specific advice for this is that you need to have one really fun night that does not involve alcohol. And the fastest way to do that is to not go to a bar, not go to a restaurant, not go to these environments that naturally aren't really that conducive to fun, which is kind of funny once you realize that that makes up the bulk of our social life. But you need to go have an adventure. You need to go to an escape room. You need to go to an improv night. You need to do a games night with really silly fun games, which I do with my friends all of the time. But you need to do something that will increase your likelihood of having fun. You need to do it without alcohol and you need to make sure your brain gets that message. I can have fun without alcohol because you're overriding

years and years and years of your brain having this other message, this message that fun can only be had when drinking is involved. So being patient with yourself and saying, okay, I need to prove to my brain that the opposite is true. But then once you unlock it, and it really just takes one night, I still remember the first night that I had where my belly hurt from laughing and I woke up the next morning and I just felt so good and I hadn't drinking anything the night before. It is such an unlock. It only takes one. So set up the circumstances to have that night for yourself and then you'll feel so free to have so many amazing fun nights without alcohol. Amazing. Okay, here's a fast one. What do you drink at bars that's not sugary or just club soda?

So you can feel included. Okay, so we love a mocktail, but if we're being very honest, the mocktails that you can get at most bars are really sugary and they're also really expensive, which gets my goad. I'm like, why am I paying $20? Because the expensive part of the drink is supposed to be the alcohol and there's no alcohol in this. So that annoys me. So I will get a moktail if it's a really high-end place with a really good moktail menu, but that's fewer and far between. So my go-to drink when I go out is I ask for a glass with half lemon juice and half club soda, and it ends up being this sparkling lemonade. It's fun to drink. It's a little sour, and there's a little bit of research that drinking sour things or eating sour foods can help with

anxiety. So if you're experiencing social anxiety, when you're out at a bar, this is a little hack, have a little bit of a sour drink, about lemon or lime juice with club soda, and I find it really delicious. What do you drink when you're out? I like a non-alcoholic beer. Your favorite is the Apsidon athletic brewing, right? For me, being gluten-free, that's the one that has gluten removed. So that is, and it's surprisingly common in a lot of bars, so that's kind of awesome.

All right. How do you deal with people shaming you for not wanting to drink and just kind of maybe giving you a hard time, too? Like, it doesn't have to be like, shame, but, you know, just like, oh, like, bummer. you know, you're lame. Yeah, I find it embarrassing for them that they care so much about what I'm doing. But then if I step back, I step back a little bit, I do feel compassion because when people are doing this, it's because they feel a little uncomfortable with what they are doing. And people who live in society, aka all of us, are always looking to other people for cues about what's

okay, what's not okay, what we should be doing at any given moment. And we're doing this consciously and subconsciously. So when you're walking in and you're breaking a social norm, their cues are like, what am I doing? Am I doing the right thing? And they're all over the place. So they're trying to recalibrate their sense of what's okay to do in that moment. And often that comes out with them being kind of annoying and bugging you. So I say, hey, I'm not drinking at the moment. And I'm confident enough in my not drinking journey that I will spark up a conversation with them about it. And I love talking to people about the reasons why I stopped and I'll get it. And I'll get into a whole dialogue about it. And I always say, but you do whatever you want. I also think you

don't need to give a reason. No is a full sentence. So you can just say to people and it's kind of freeing to do this, I'm not drinking tonight. Full stop. No explanation. Nothing. Or even I'm not drinking. I don't drink. I don't drink. It's kind of powerful to just stop there. I also think that you can say things if you are more nervous about this conversation. like, oh, I have to drive home. Oh, I have an early morning the next day. Honestly, when you think about the amount of reasons and sometimes quite personal reasons, like I have friends who are trying to conceive or dealing with IVF type stuff and they're not drinking for those reasons, it's kind of crazy when you think about that that people would come up to you and

question you. But I really think having the compassion that it's more about them than you, they are not judging you. They're just trying to almost check in is what they're doing okay in this moment. Do they feel confident about having you perceive them without the layer of alcohol in front of that perception? And feeling compassion around that because that can be scary and showing that you love them. You're going to have fun. And you're not going to judge them for whatever they choose to do. For sure.

I also think that you're going to have fun thing is disarming to the extreme. Because I think if people are like, oh, they came here not to be a different. downer. They came here to have a great time and, you know, showing that. Showing is definitely the quickest way to just be like, oh, were they not drinking? I don't know. I lost track. Wait, Liz is dancing on the table and she's not drunk. Yeah, right. Is our often course of the evening. Okay. My biggest challenge is work social events without drinking. Any tips? I just had a flashback to my first company Christmas party in New York and I got wasted. Don't be the drunk person at a party. Wasted. I threw up on the curb.

I threw up, I don't know, I threw up many times. You called me crying. You were super worried that you made a bad impression on people who you really cared about their opinion of you. Yeah, I remember so distinctly the feeling of waking up the next morning with dread filling my chest. Sure that I had ruined all of these incredibly important to me relationships because I didn't remember most of what had happened. So in general, I would say it's better to not be the drunk person at a work party. It's going to work to your advantage. Your brain is going to be thinking better.

You're going to be able to make more sparkling conversation. You'll be able to make the connections that you want to make. Have something to sip on. In general, I think that's a great tip. People are not usually inquiring, what is in that glass? But in general, so much more advantageous to be the sober person at a work party. Sometimes when I'm feeling anxious or stressed, my mind goes to a drink. How to reroute that?

So we talked about this already, but I just want to reiterate it quickly because it is so important. on a neurochemical level, alcohol is making you more anxious. That is the impact of the drug that is alcohol on your brain. Once you realize that you were essentially choosing this fleeting potential moment of dissipating your anxiety for having much more anxiety the next day, but also the day after that, the day after that, the day after that is a long-term impact on anxiety and it's making people more anxious. For me, at least, as somebody who really struggles with anxiety, knowing that was hugely helpful and not reaching for it. And then having that, what do I really need less?

What actually helps you feel less anxious? Every time you do something that helps you feel less anxious, put it on the list, and then you have it all there to reference, and it can be a growing, evolving list of things that actually make you feel calm. What about I'm about to go give a speech at a wedding? We don't all just officiate weddings for fun, right? I'm nervous. I got to get up there. Okay, so hopefully before this wedding, you have laid that groundwork, that all of those traits that you think alcohol is giving you are actually inherent to the person that you are and you are just giving alcohol credit for them. So you know that you're that person who can do the badass speech. And then in the moment, the best, best way to quickly reduce your anxiety and this works much better than alcohol on a neurological level is to do some breath work. And the physiological sigh has. been the most studied, most proven for this. This is two quick inhales through your nose and then one long exhale through your mouth. Do it four or five times. Your body has no choice but to have

a response to this. Our breath is so interesting because we breathe all day without thinking about it, but also we can control our breath. And it sits in this really interesting category because you can't say like control your digestion. You're not like digest right now, but you can control your breath, which is this automatic process that your body is doing all day. So your breath is, sending these powerful signals to your brain about the state of your body at any given moment. When we change our breath, we change those signals to our brain. So your brain has no choice but to be like, oh, I guess I'm calm now. What I think is interesting about this type of breathwork is we do it naturally when we're crying. Have you noticed that? You're crying, crying,

crying, and then you go, ah, that's interesting. That's your body naturally trying to self-soothe. So you can do that to yourself in the moment. No tears. necessary and that will help you give that speech. Oh, that's fascinating. Also, there's like a once a year thing and you really feel like this is the crutch you want to have, right? Intentional drinking. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the time. Like, that might be a time that I would choose to have, like, one drink, you know, for the first time. You know, a couple months, you'd be like, I got to go. I got to go be funny and sweet and caring all at once because that's hard for me. You do that every day, babe. You're too sweet.

How do I get my partner or my family members to stop drinking? I think that you don't. I tried to get my dad to stop drinking and also to stop smoking cigars, but that's an entirely different story. But to stop drinking... It's not that different. It's not that different. It's not that different. But when we stopped drinking, I spent a really long time trying to...

convey all of the information that I learned to my dad and to tell him how much better I felt and how much I was worried about his health and his lifespan if he continued to drink and smoke cigars. And it not only did not make him drink less, it was really hard on our relationship. He felt like I didn't trust him to make his own choices. He felt like I was nagging him. He didn't want to be around me as much because he felt like I was going to try to control whatever he was doing when we spent time together. He didn't feel free to be himself when we spent time together. And it was really detrimental to our relationship. So when I scaled back on that, our relationship was able to get to a good place again. I still worry about his health and about the

impacts of him drinking. But I've had to acknowledge that what is in my control is what I do with my own body. It is who I spend time with, the states that I spend time with people in. I think it is a perfectly reasonable boundary to say you're not going to be around somebody when they are drunk in a way that isn't fun for you. But what is not in my control is what other people choose to do with their own bodies. And that's been a really powerful lesson for me. to learn. That's really great. I would also add that maybe the best way to get somebody to stop drinking is to just not drink, not preach about it, you know, not make it into a mission or a major conversation that you want to have with them, but just to model, this is what my life is

like when I'm not drinking. Isn't it great? I found with people in our lives, and name out your mom, for instance, she used to drink a lot of wine as many people do. We're in California. A California winehouse old for sure. A California winehouse. And when we stopped drinking, we'd go over for dinner and she'd be like, oh, wait, you're not drinking tonight? And we'd be like, no, not really. And then she would experiment with whatever we were drinking, whether it was a Gia mocktail

or one of the non-alcoholic beers that you would bring over. I'd make a quick mocktail with spin drift and drinking vinegar. And she loved that. And I think we actually ultimately became this safe space for her to feel like she didn't have to drink. and she drinks much, much less as a result of watching and then coming along on our journey. And I've noticed that with a lot of our friends. I think we've become a really safe space of, oh, you can go have fun, have a really silly,

goofy, enjoyable night, and alcohol doesn't have to be part of it and you can feel good the next day. So I think just being that person for anybody in your life, but not trying to control their actions. And I know it's so hard. I care so deeply about the people that I love and their health. health, and I want them to be around forever, and I say this all knowing every single thing that whoever wrote that question and must be feeling. And at the end of the day, we have to accept what's in our control and what's out of our control. My life is so social, and I love going

out with friends. How can I not feel so restricted? Since I became an intentional drinker, my friendships have gotten so much stronger, and I have become even more social because I don't feel tired if I go out at night. I don't have to do that calculation of, oh, if I go out with my friends tonight, am I going to feel really bad tomorrow? Instead, it's like, oh, I can go out, and then I can have a great day tomorrow, and I can be productive, and I can get done the work that I need to get done. And this is such an important thing that I just wish people understood about drinking less. People come to me all the time, and they're like so worried about everything that they're giving up if they choose to give up alcohol or drink less.

alcohol. And I would love for people to switch that into what am I gaining? What am I gaining? I have gained so much in my drinking less journey. Our relationship is stronger. I do more interesting things with my time because I'm not defaulting to just going out to restaurants and going out to bars. I remember the fun nights out that I have with my friends. I know that I'm sparkly and witty and interesting and all these things that I was attributing to alcohol before. I feel good in my body and in my mind, both on the nights that I'm going out and the next day when I would have otherwise been hung over. I have gained all of these incredible things that thinking back to that person in August of 2022, where I was like, how do I do this? How am I going to make

this work? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you are going to gain so much. You need to stop focusing on the things that you think you're losing. So you're asking, how will I be social? How will I go out and have fun with friends? First of all, this is a practical tip. Don't start with going to bars. It's too hard. Start with things that are more naturally sober. Do a games night with friends, go play a social sport, do a book club, do things that don't rely on alcohol as the primary activity until you gain your footing a little bit in the sober curious world and you feel a little bit more confident. And it will just make it less tempting to drink to not have the environment almost pressuring you to drink.

But then later, I think you can go back to bars. I love going to bars. I love going out dancing. I love going to restaurants. I love doing all these things. And I have confidence that I can do this sober and have more fun, not as much fun. We're not trying to get back to the state that drinking brought us to. I think that not drinking gets you higher.

It's not a sacrifice. It's a thing that has enhanced my life so greatly, which is why I love talking about it. I love it. Investing in yourself, right? Yeah. Love that. Unfortunately, I do think that is all we have time for. We got a ton of questions.

So let me know if you guys want us to do another one of these. We can answer more questions. But we like to keep these Monday episodes really short and sweet. So we will wrap it up there. Thank you so much for joining me, Zach. Hey, thanks for having me. That is all for this episode of the Lurface. Liz Moody Podcast. If you are new to the podcast, welcome. I am so glad that you're here. Make sure that

you are following the podcast on whatever platform that you like to listen on. I know that 50% of you listening to this episode do not follow the podcast. What is up with that? You're making your life harder by not following. Not only is it the best way to support the podcast, but it also make sure that episodes show up right in your feed. You don't have to search for them anywhere. And trust me, you do not want to miss what we have coming up soon. I will be delivering some incredible science, interviews and advice every single Monday and every single Wednesday for you. Okay, I love you and I will see you for the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast.

If you loved this episode, you will also love our three-part series on the health effects of alcohol where I interviewed world-renowned doctors on the way that alcohol impacts our bodies, how they choose to incorporate alcohol into their lives. and then we end with a therapist who shares amazing advice for how to overcome tricky social issues around drinking. I will link it for you in the show notes so you can listen to it next. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional.

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