The Louis Theroux Podcast - S2 EP1: Paul Mescal discusses the impact of Hollywood fame, dealing with paparazzi, and how acting is the love of his life

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

In this episode, Louis is in the Spotify studio with Irish actor, Paul Mescal. As well as Paul’s new film ‘All Of Us Strangers’, they discuss his sausage-related big break, spending time in Hollywood, and going viral on Irish Twitter. Heavy irony employed throughout. Warnings: Strong language and adult themes. Links/Attachments: ‘All of Us Strangers’ – Trailer  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97iSjvqBlY  ‘Normal People’ – BBC iPlayer  https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p089g8rs/normal-people  ‘Aftersun’ – Mubi  https://mubi.com/en/gb/films/aftersun  ‘Paul Mescal ghosted Louis Theroux’ – BBC Radio 2 https://www.tiktok.com/@bbcradio2/video/7299111154775756064 Denny sausage advert – YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alVbyTgJ828  The Phantom of the Opera – YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffnn5D8XubM Credits: Producer: Millie Chu  Assistant Producer: Maan Al-Yasiri  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett  Music: Miguel D’Oliveira  Photo: @bypip Executive Producer: Arron Fellows     A Mindhouse Production for Spotify  www.mindhouse.co.uk  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, ready? This is it. Showtime. Hello! Louis Theroux here. Welcome back to my Spotify podcast called The Rest is Louis Theroux. That's a podcast joke. Actually, we call it The Louis Theroux Podcast. we called the Louis Theroux podcast. This is the first episode. I want to say that loudly, so I'll lean back from the mic. This is the first episode in the new series. And today I'm speaking to Paul Mescal. Note to the world. That's how it's pronounced. Not mescal, which is a drink, the world. That's how it's pronounced. Not mescal, which is a drink, but mescal. They're young and notably gorgeous, I'm told. I didn't notice. I'm very, very, very straight. Too many verries. That many verries raises questions. The very, very. I'm very, very straight. But not very, very, very straight. That would be suspect. What are you trying to hide?

very very straight that would be suspect what are you trying to hide who shot to fame in 2020 for his role in the bbc miniseries normal people directed beautifully by lenny abramson and hetty mcdonald it was in case you missed it where were you a massive hit during lockdown it went completely viral everyone was watching it and um many people were mooning over the gorgeousness, the beauty, the fitness of Paul Mescal and his chain, which was a thing. He's elegant. We didn't talk about his chain, but his chain got its own Instagram account. It has 138,000 followers at Connell's chain. If you want to follow it, I don't, I can't imagine exactly what it's saying. Well, it's Insta, it's mainly photos. If I had a Twitter account, X it's now called, I'd be curious to know what's on its mind. Just hanging around.

Not that funny. I didn't watch it when it came out. I was a late adopter. In fact, I watched it in prep for this podcast. And when I came to watch it, I obviously understood why it very much, it's quite simple in a way, quite classical. It's not massively speaking to the now of tech and social media and millennial or Gen Z sort of interactions. Although that's there, it's not foregrounded. It's mainly about young love and sex and intimacy and also mental health. Since then, he's gone on to star in several films and plays, including A Streetcar Named Desire. You'll know that as the Tennessee Williams play,

which Marlon Brando made famous in the movie adaptation. Vivian Leigh played Blanche Dubois. I love that film. Paul played Stanley Kowalski, the Brando role, and won an Olivier for it. And the film After Sun, the much garlanded, much critically lauded independent film in which he plays a young father on holiday with his daughter i won't say more because it might

spoil it slightly he was nominated for an oscar for that but it went to brendan fraser for his role in the whale and i make a joke about that and there's a i want to give an irony alert because you might think i was being rude otherwise. Heavy irony is used throughout the conversation. You'll be the best judge of when it's being employed. Paul's an amazing guest for us. So I feel as though for him to make time for me was a big vote of confidence and an act of trust. And I appreciate it.

And I think he's at the beginning or close to the beginning because he's been you know two three years down the road but of a very exciting career and so a lot of the conversation is sort of framed around that idea of what it feels like to be on not just on the cusp but to be in the first flush of that success and thinking about how to manage it and what that will be like and where he hopes to go with it. We recorded this conversation in person at Spotify headquarters just days after the SAG strike had been lifted. Paul had taken a two-hour break during a press junket while he was promoting his new film, All of Us Strangers. His brilliant new film, I should say. Paul plays Andrew Scott's love interest. Andrew Scott, you'll remember as the hot priest in Fleabag. Okay. I was lucky enough to see it on preview.

I thought it was, I'm not going to use the word exquisite because I seem to use that word too much. I use it twice in the conversation. Instead, I will say, no, that's the only word I know exquisite no instead I will say elegiac that was a good one I say heartbreaking in the thing elegiac lush romantic anyway I really liked it I was sat in the studio waiting when producer Millie brought him in so we joined the action excitingly in medias res, which is Latin for in the middle of the thing. Warnings. I'm still thinking of those words.

You don't need any more. You don't need any more words. Okay. Warnings. Some strong language, some juvenile humor, and of course some adult topics discussed. All of that coming up. I'm very excited.

I heard that. You don't have to say that, you know. I'm very excited. Come on. Bring it in. Good to see you. How's it going? I'm good. How are you?

You're looking well. You're looking well. Look at you. Look at you. Look at us. Look at us. Young guys. Young gorgeous hunks of manhood that we are. Beautiful specimen.

Where is the button? You going over there. Here? Yeah, with the mic. Is that mic? Great. How are you doing? Are you feeling well?

I'm feeling good. Good. Nice to be out in the world talking about movies. You've got your big movie out, which I saw and I loved. You don't have to say that i genuinely i genuinely did though and it's always awkward if you see one you like and then you just gloss over it a bit but this is your go-to if you don't actually like oh you just say you find something to like there's always something to enjoy yeah that's true so you just find you find something but this is exquisite heartbreaking

beautiful beautiful was covered by exquisite wonderfully acted and I think it's going to win I think it's going to win a ton of Oscars a ton of Oscars

I'm going to quote you on that but the bad news is I just jinxed it by doing it it's cursed now but hey then we can at least feel that we were entitled to it

but you made that not happen. I fucked it up. You fucked it up. We should talk about... Okay, the elephant in the room is that we've met before. Yeah. Let's get into this. Let's get into that.

And the Zoe Ball breakfast show. You were promoting After Sun, I think. I was, yeah. And then I was trying to organise you tickets to come to... Gosh. Street Care that you never took. You do remember it now. I do.

See? And then you go on radio too and you say that i ghosted you your number did change it did change but that wasn't because of you it was because of life yeah and um and now here we are i i would basically corroborate that account the things i'm gonna um interject are that at that time, I hadn't seen normal people, which obviously was a lockdown phenomenon. My wife had seen it and enjoyed it. And I'm going to excuse myself on the grounds of A, it was lockdown, I was busy, I was doing a lot. But B, I like reading and I was well aware of the book by Sally Rooney,

but I hadn't read it. And I thought, do you know what? Everyone says it's a terrific book. So while I'm curious to see the TV adaptation, I feel like I should read the book first. And then I went on an online retailer, and it was sold out. The book was sold out? The book was sold out, except obviously not on Kindle, but I didn't want to read it on Kindle. No, I'm not a Kindle.

So then I'm thinking, well, I'll get back to that, and then time passes. The book was sold out. That's wild. Well, because the TV show was on. But this was only last year that we... Yeah, but this, I'm going back to... Oh, this is 2020. Okay, understood.

So 2020, at the time when everyone was binging on normal people. So then I thought, I'll get back to that. And then, you know, my wife was halfway through the series. It was too late to jump on that bus. And then everyone moved on to tiger king or something else yeah and here we are and then i went on zoe ball and they said that you'd said in an interview that you were the quote is starstruck this was with amelia this is also another crossover that we have because at the gqQ Man of the Year. Emilia de Moldenberg.

Yes. Friend of the podcast. Yes. It was actually the GQ red carpet thing. You were just ahead. Remember, we actually bumped into each other at that event. This is like a little rom-com in itself. It is.

And you had gone ahead of me. Where the meet cute is on the radio show. But the meet cute actually happened before. Right. It was around that time. You did Emilia on the... You did. before. Right. It was around that time you did Amelia on the... We don't do that.

We don't do that. You got the wrong podcast, mate. For heteronormative innuendo, I have never indulged in that low-hanging fruit. Sorry. You had your interview with Amelia on the red carpet and you walked past me,

and I remember spending probably half of that interview going like, that's Louis Theroux. And then I shook hands with you in the middle of the interview, and you were talking to Charlotte, the director of Aftersun at that time. I was. You were, yeah. I talked to Charlotte, the director of Aftersun.

You did, yeah. At the GQ Awards. Very briefly. I must be sleepwalking through life. No, you're just a very busy human being. Life should be like a convention where people wear little labels. You know what I mean? Life should be that.

Paul Mescal, heartthrob actor, future Oscar winner. Future Oscar winner. Yeah. Yeah. Depending on when you're listening to this, if it's after February, it'll be Oscar winner. Oh, well. Yeah, jinxed it. Jinxed it, yeah. Depending on when you're listening to this, if it's after February, it'll be Oscar winner. Oh, well. Yeah, jinxed it.

Jinxed it, yeah. Thank you for that. So you said to Amelia, there's Louis Theroux, I'm starstruck. Something along those lines. So weird. Why do you think that's weird? Because you are, you're a Hollywood actor.

But that has nothing to do, like, to me, I've like grown up watching your work. I think when I started watching your documentaries is when I started to feel like an adult or capable of consuming things that were greater than The Simpsons. Well, steady on. I don't even want that accolade.

No, but you know what I mean? That for me was a transitory period where I was like, oh, I'm capable of absorbing media that is more adult. Vaguely adult, right. Not vaguely adult, but I was like, oh, I'm capable of absorbing media that is more adult. Vaguely adult, right. Not vaguely adult, but I was like, it was something that I could watch with my dad

or my mom or things like that. So, yeah. It's wild. And also to have sustained that kind of quality of work over a long period of time is like a pretty impressive thing, Louis. Okay, people out in podcast land, I'm blushing. The thing is, is I'm a okay humble brag this is going to come off right probably but you know for those of us who labor in the vineyards of television it's a strange thing where there's obviously a sort of hierarchy of production where

things that are on tv are lower down than for example a huge Hollywood film anyway I think that speaks for itself but I haven't really done a Hollywood film that's the truth of it is this the point where we talk about

Gladiator 2 well I suppose no it's not because the thing is that is something that I'm going to spend all of next year talking about

yeah I don't want to yeah and also something that probably causes me to spend all of next year talking about. Yeah, I don't want to. Yeah, and also something that probably causes me a mild level of anxiety because everybody is perpetually saying your life's going to change with that and there's a chance that that is true. So to get to spend the next year in whatever bubble that this is.

But your life's already changed, hasn't it? Yeah, and I think that's the point. It's already changed hasn't yeah that's and i think that's the point it's like probably from an outside perspective gladiator definitely is a step up in terms of a film that's going to be consumed by much more like a greater audience but like i think my life changed around normal people and then everything else has kind of felt incremental in the sense that like to go from totally anonymous to not anonymous it's kind of the biggest jump and everything else you develop your own set of rules that change of course but you develop a kind of coping mechanism

from that junction and the rest is hopefully gonna stay nice and level i would think you police your boundaries you figure out oh if i put this out there then this becomes part of the narrative yeah and you become a little bit more careful right i think almost the opposite like you become like naturally your body is your mind will protect itself but I think the danger with actors that I see is when you over protect yourself yeah like if you become kind of shut off from the rest of the world

if you start like travelling with massive entourages or you need things or you start acquiring things that you don't necessarily need I think A it's not that fun. But B, I think it closes you off to the world. And like, how do I do my job if I'm not engaging with the world?

Things like what? I just want to be really literal. Things like, I know this sounds incredibly basic, but like being afraid to go out and be like drunk in public is the fear about being perceived as out of control it's not something that i ever understood and i think musicians get away with it all the time but i think also there's a part of you that's got to be careful because you don't want people to know you innately but i also don't want to become hermetic because i know that i have a tendency having like i could fall into that trap very easily. So they're my kind of rules for myself at present,

is look after myself and don't become precious. Precious with how people perceive you, because ultimately as long as you have the same moral values, it's two things. It's like I care massively with how I'm perceived, but I also don't really want to be perceived as kind of an actor who exists behind a glass case. Yes.

Like that's untouchable or unattainable or unreachable probably. You came off Twitter in 2020. I tried to come off Twitter. You want it now? No, no. I definitely don't know my log. I basically couldn't delete it because I tried to come off Twitter. You want it now? No, no. Definitely, I don't know my log.

I basically couldn't delete it because I don't know my password. So there's a page up there that hasn't been posted on since 2020. But was that part... Because, I mean, having said that you don't want to adapt or change your life or become overly protected or self-protected...

Well, because social media... Like, I really liked social media when I was, like, growing up. But then it became about, like, post social media when I was growing up. But then it became about post this trailer, post this photo shoot. And then you become a commodity. And then I'm like, you don't want to be that. It's not of interest to me now. But what about, because I thought you were going to say,

oh, then it becomes about trolls coming at you and every opinion you express. If you become more authentic, then there's a lot of comeback and or tedious anxiety about should I, shouldn't I say something about this? Yeah, because the thing that I find dangerous about that is thrusting a responsibility onto somebody's hand, like an actor's hand. I've got distinct political ideas and things that are for me, but I don't believe that my opinion is any greater than my mother. What are your ideas? Don't start.

Don't you start. Ideas, like, not even opinions but ideas like I think we should all like have vote in kind of big arenas I think we should all

love each other treat each other with kindness oh so quite radical then yeah incredibly radical on the subject though because I've been doing some research

believe it or not and then one of the things that came up was and I didn't understand the reference that you'd been referred to as British in something yeah that drives me absolutely nuts speaking of well that isn't politics that's just came up was and I didn't understand the reference that you'd been referred to as British in

something that drives me absolutely speaking of well that isn't politics that's just ignorance well it can be

well it's rooted in what was it where did it come from it came from when I was nominated for an

Emmy like BBC or Sky News or somebody was like and a list of British nominees are

blah blah blah it was my greatest it was the highlight I thought Irish people loved that loved being called it's one of our favourite things actually and even better are blah blah blah it was my greatest it was the highlight I thought Irish people loved that

loved being called it's one of our favourite things actually even better if it's English yeah well that's the that's the holy grail of what Irish people

enjoy but yeah that was my hit tweet so what did you put I just quoted the headline and just said

I'm Irish radical that was it That was it. That was it. Apparently it was the most retweeted thing on Irish Twitter that year. Irish Twitter, yeah. I mean, it's niche. It's niche for sure.

But I also think that's the important thing for actors generally. And it kind of ties back to what I was saying about like not wanting to exist behind a glass case, but also you want to retain a degree of anonymity. And I think like my political identity isn't the thing that people are coming to watch. True. I don't believe in like being innately moralist, a moralistic force in society as an actor, I think we have a job to be an artist. And my moral identity is kind of a private thing to me. I get it. Because I think how many times do you see celebrities who have a massive following,

but they have no idea what they're talking about? I've never seen it. You've never seen it? No. Don't know what you're talking about. You're a liar. And I think that can be equally damaging. The ignorance. You've never seen it? No. Don't know what you're talking about. You're a liar. And I think that can be equally damaging.

The ignorance. Yeah, or just your opinion being important because you're followed. You know what I mean? Of course, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm trying not to be basic in this sort of narrative. And there's a sort of Paul Meskel narrative,

which perhaps I don't even need to remind you about which is that you had this moment of incredible meteoric ascent because you were in this extraordinary series normal people based on sally rooney's novel and it is exquisite and i binge watched it this week oh nice i found it very moving it sort of reminded me of my own younger years and the sort of first blush of love and romance and those complicated sort of negotiating those relationships. And it kind of was, because it's so good and also because of lockdown, people absolutely lapped it up, didn't they?

What was that like? That was pretty extraordinary, like an extraordinary time. And now actually feels quite far away. And I think part of that is kind of emotionally blacking that out because the amount that changed in such a short period of time was kind of mind-numbing. But also it's the thing that you like lie awake and dream about when you're an actor.

Not the public-facing thing, but to be aware that the thing that is registering with an audience is going to afford me the possibility, at least for five to ten years, to be somebody that casting directors and directors will consider. Like, that is the holy grail. And that's what happened. But also COVID was happening.

When did it actually drop? It was like two days before or as COVID was happening. Around the spring of 2020. March, yeah. Having recorded it the previous year. Having recorded the summer of 2019, yeah. When you were making it, were you thinking, there's no way this is not going to be a hit?

I think I was aware that the work that we were doing was strong and the script was strong and Lenny is a phenomenal director. Lenny Abramson, who made Frank. Yeah. I mean, and lots of other films, but that's the one I've seen. Yeah. And Hattie, who directed the second block. But then, like, by the end of the summer,

it had reached, like, 16.2 million streams on the BBC and was the most streamed show. Do you look at the opening box office when you have a movie out? I do, actually, because I want to know if people are remotely interested in the work that I'm doing. But there's no shame in that. No, because I think that's the... Did you consider lying when I asked you that? No, I was considering whether it was the opening weekend, which I don't...

This is boring, but normally the opening weekend, which I don't, like, this is boring, but normally the opening weekend, especially with an independent film, they stagger it out so they'll release it in two theatres in New York, two theatres in LA, and then they'll expand. Which of your movies has made the most money? Probably After Sun. And how much did it make?

I think it made close to 10 million. Do you think Gladiator will make that? I would hope that it would make 10 million. That would be fantastic. That would be cataclysmic. If Gladiator made 10 million, I'd never work again. 10 million doesn't even cover what you're being paid for Gladiator. Shut up.

That was my best joke so was very good you got your big break on a sausage advert okay yeah well that wasn't the big break that was the big break for me was being told that you can get paid to be an actor that was right like that was i know I was being facetious You're just being an ass I'm sorry Go on, go on But that was the most money I'd ever been paid Really? I got paid 5,000 which covered my rent for the rest of the year How old were you? I was too old to have said yes to a sausage advert

But I was desperate But you actually look the same as you do in normal people It was probably, what, let's say 2018 So the year before The year before It was probably, what, let's say 2018. So the year before. The year before. And I remember not knowing how the spit bucket works on set. Well, I don't think I know how that works.

Because you do have to eat sausage. Yeah, but apparently you're not supposed to eat... You're all right with innuendo if it's not heteronormative. Okay, understood. Noted. I just remember feeling it was so rude to spit out your food in the room. A guy would come up with the book and I was like, no, no, no, it's fine. How much sausage did you eat? Probably in excess of about 10, I would say.

Really? Too many sausages to be eating at 8 a.m. in the morning. Yeah. Did you get some fame off of that? It's something that people in Ireland reference a lot to kind of bring me right back down to earth. That's more or less why I did it. Yeah, thank you.

But you were giving a serious... Your serious answer was the point where you realised you could actually make a living in acting. Well, it wasn't necessarily make a living because I don't think that I could have I was in final year drama school we were doing a play called Mojo

in final year which was it's a Jez Butterworth play, it's an amazing play it's like quite radical and the characters are very vibrant and set in Soho in the late 50s it's kind of Tarantino-esque, but theatrical. I remember Selina Cartmill,

who was in charge of the Gate Theatre at the time, was cast in Great Gatsby in Dublin. She came in to see a performance and the next day I was asked to audition for Gatsby. And we still had another play to do with college afterwards, but I ended up being cast as Gatsby and the college released me on the basis and we still had another play to do with college afterwards but i ended up being cast as gatsby and the college released me on the basis that they would examine my performance in gatsby to

basically get me the degree but i remember somebody said like being told that it's your job now is to be an actor the thing that i remember being so kind of scared by was that the wage, I was still having to ask my parents to help me with rent and I was like, oh God. Living in Dublin at the time? Yeah, Dublin's absurdly expensive. And I was like, oh God, if this is the thing that I love most in the world and I can't afford to pay my rent. And I'm not good with money generally as well. That didn't help things. But then I just got lucky that people kept wanting me to work. But that was the moment when you felt like...

For me, it was like I made it. Yeah. Should we talk about going up for a minute then? Let's do it. Is that all right? Please, yeah. Because I have the privilege in doing this podcast with you that actually, because you're still quite young, you're 27, right?

27, yeah. And you haven't done an enormous amount of in-depth interviews and promotion. Yeah. So there's a bit out there. I know you grew up in Maynooth, which is about sort of on the outskirt, not quite in Dublin, but not far from. Yeah far half an hour drive half an hour 40 minutes yeah and your mum was a guard a guard a police yeah police officer yeah and your dad was a teacher yeah and what i don't know why i'm telling you this yeah but what was it like i had a great time growing up

um i spent very little time inside lots of sports wasn't like particularly interested in the world of like film or tv or i remember seeing dad and plays so dad was a school teacher and also worked from time to time as an actor whenever he could find the time to do that so there was definitely like a creative something going on in the family that was creative he had a career do you think he was, not frustrated, would he have liked to have been an actor? Probably, yeah.

But it didn't happen for him? It didn't happen for him at that time, but he, like, he's approaching retirement now and I know that that's going to be

his next phase is going back on stage. He's got a whole new phase of life ahead of him. Yeah, but it's a big thing for like your parents, because I'm absolutely terrified of getting older.

You are? Totally scared of it. Why? Because I associate it with, I don't know, maybe a loss of control. You get more control. Yeah, I know, but I don't feel, I'm just afraid of it. I think it's attached to my fear of death. That's my big, I don't's attached to my fear of death. That's my big...

I don't know what to do with that feeling. The thought of parents passing away or siblings or friends. Statistically, that's going to... Death is one of the inevitable things. So I'm really keen for my... My mum's great. My mum is very active and is big into Reiki

and is quite a spiritual... Reiki is a kind of... It's like a healing... It's like massage, but they don't touch you. They don't touch you. It's very... I'm sure it's totally legit. I've had this conversation many times.

I don't think it's legit, but it gives my mum lots of joy. And then i hope my dad really steps into back on stage yeah but it's i think to have worked a job for 33 years it's a huge transition to then go you've all your time and then to go back on stage is an immensely stressful thing when it was a massive part of your identity as a younger man um so i'm just to be quite forceful with him and be like, you've got to do it.

Yeah, you're in his corner. But you were talking about growing up, were there a lot of books in the house? There were. Music. I sort of romanticise Irish literary culture a bit. Yeah. So in my mind, it's all James Joyce, Samuel Beckett.

No. No? No. I'm Samuel Beckett. No. No? No. I'm not that smart, Louis. I don't like... Don't talk yourself down. It's just the truth. It's all in there. Like, honestly, the main thing that I remember about growing up was, and the thing that I'm most grateful for,

is the amount of time that my parents spent in a car driving me to training all over the country. Gaelic football. Gaelic football, yeah. Like, maybe this is my own latent self-obsession or fear. Like, I was just like, I don't know if I could do that. To give all your, like, I think the act of being a parent is the most selfless thing imaginable. Like, you just drive and sit in the car

especially like imagine like your children are just warming up they're not even playing a game and you're just kind of sitting there and my mum she couldn't watch the game

so she wasn't even getting the joy of she loved it but like wouldn't be able to stand still watching the matches she'd be walking around why?

for fear of getting injured or the stress she's not she can't watch sports she like howls she screams she's worried about you getting hurt getting injured or the stress. She can't watch sports. She howls. She screams. She's worried about you getting hurt? Hurt or the kind of the innate drama of sport.

Really? Yeah. She's very sensitive in that regard. You must have been watching a few movies. I was, yeah. But that kind of happened in teenage years and definitely I consumed a lot more coming into drama school. So you were more of a jock at school than a kind of little art nerd.

Little art nerd. Obsessing about. I was kind of like in the high school musical Irish version. Then you had a transformative moment when you were in Phantom of the Opera. Yes. In a school production. Yeah. Which is folks in, I'm going to stop saying folks in podcast land.

It's supposed to be ironic, but now it's becoming real. You can watch on YouTube the video of Paul playing the Phantom in Phantom of the Opera. And I watched a little bit last night. Have you seen that? I was in it, so I didn't need to see it. Can I tell you what I was confused by? What? There was singing and your lips were moving, but the two i didn't need to see it can i tell you what i was confused by what there was singing and your lips were moving but the two things didn't match are you accusing me of lip syncing

at a school production i'm just saying what i saw that's probably the faulty video i were like there's nothing more depressing than that being a formative moment then you look at it back and you're just shit were you singing like absolutely yeah that's so weird so it just didn't it could have just been the sync on the sound because then i thought but if they're gonna use track why would they use no it was a live orchestra the whole it was such a but your singing was real singing was absolutely do you know you look at it and it's strange. You're like, I'm like, that poor mescal. It's Milli Vanilli all over again. No, I was definitely, definitely singing.

I do all my own stunts. No, but it was there. No, it's like that's why actors love doing stage work because you never have to see it back. You never have to be affronted with it. Yeah, it's all sideways on. It's not blocked for a camera. I won't say it looked amazing because I didn't watch enough to... You never have to be affronted with it. Yeah, it's all sideways on. It's not blocked for a camera. I won't say it looked amazing because I didn't watch enough to... It was a school production.

Yeah. We were children then. So it probably wasn't amazing. And you should refrain from judging it as a serious part of my career. That's fair. Formative, but very unserious. That's fair. Yeah.

Anyway, moving on thank you um so then that was that you got the bug got the bug continue playing sport i had an amazing set of coaches that like i always feel like it's important to mention that like we probably assume that those two worlds don't connect like the world of sport and the world of theater but my cultures were incredibly accommodating and understood that it was something that i wasn't sure that i wanted to like study it or do it but it was the only thing that kind of was able to compete with my desire to play sport and then at some points it just over took. Did it overtake or was, because it's also been written that you had a fairly serious accident or there was an injury?

And I broke my jaw, yeah. During a match? I kind of played football on the sly. So when you go to drama school, the teachers all say you can't play any contact sport because your body's got to be all like flowy and soft bodies is the phrase. Is that the term? Which I hated because I'm incredibly inflexible. So for first and second year, I was like playing football without letting anybody know. And then at the end of second year, during the summer, I was like, I'm going to stop playing football at the end of this year.

Go into third year and not play for fear of getting injured. We should say you were studying at drama school in Dublin in the Lear Academy in Dublin and then going into final year

I had a match on the Saturday starting rehearsals for the first play and final year on the Monday and you play at quite a high level

the Gaelic football so I played for my county which is like the way it works is you represent your club and if you're selected from that you represent your county and I played for my county are you like the way it works is you represent your club and if you're selected from that you represent your county

and I played for my county are you paid for that? no no it's an amateur it's amateur so it's our national sport but it's an amateur

is it? it's fantastic it's a lot like our premier league I can't watch it I can't watch the premier league really? I can't abide it

because you're thinking about how much money they're earning it's nothing to do with the money I just don't I feel like there's an ego do with the money I just don't like I feel like there's an

like an ego involved with that it's just so just there's something dirty about it to me and I'm going to get attacked

but it's just how I I'm privileged to be here at the moment that I got cancelled by the English football fans I don't think there's a huge amount of crossover

there's no skill involved there's definite skill the thing that there's a huge amount of crossover. There's no skill involved. There's definite skill. The thing that I like about it, or that I don't like about it, is that it's like, there's such talented individuals that have probably grew up with this innate desire to play football.

And it starts with a passion. And I feel like it's just kind of corrupted and like twisted. Like it goes back to the kind of existing in your own bubble that I think that it's important for an actor to avoid. And I think the same thing is like footballers could like do with a healthy dose of like reality. You can't take yourself that seriously.

Well, you know you're an actor, right? I know. But I don't think that I take myself that seriously. Not you, but as a profession. Absolutely. You act as going like... It's ridiculous. When I go out there, it's like going to war.

Oh, but that's a ridiculous... And every day, I don't just expose my body, I expose my soul. Yeah, that's a classic. I love that. If we ever do this in 10 years' time, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Yeah, man man it's just if I can reach you you'll be in a mansion

I'll be in a mansion performing reggae wouldn't that be great on your own penis I don't even know what that really means I don't know

if you can do that I hope that you can't do that no but I think I get it the thing is at the risk of stating the obvious

many footballers come from extremely of course poor backgrounds I can't do that. But I think I get it. The thing is, at the risk of stating the obvious, many footballers come from extremely poor backgrounds. It's more so to do with the industry of football that I can't abide. It's like all of these individuals are coming from a lower socioeconomic background that suddenly are being told to batter their bodies and forego brain damage in an attempt to kind of climb the social ladder. It's like there's something innately I think evil about

the... it's actually my issue is I just don't really enjoy watching soccer but I don't like the industry in which it's... And I'm not a huge fan of like the Hollywood industry either. I don't think they're particularly healthy and they're innately capitalistic. Well, look, I want to talk about, I know we're on our way to, we're in this massive detour without having reached the moment of your injury,

which we're going to get to. But on the subject of Hollywood, I'm speaking to you in depth for the first time and what I get from you is like sensitivity, sort of a sense of thoughtfulness and the fact that you don't want to be swamped in kind of bullshit about this and that, right? And nevertheless, Hollywood, fairly or unfairly,

is characterized as being sort of the world capital of whatever that is. So I just wonder, what's been your exposure to Hollywood and that side of the business? I lived in LA for a second, but I didn't... How long? Probably about four or five months. Okay.

And then... Whereabouts? Like out by Highland Park. Highland Park. Pasadena. Pasadena. Very far from... Right, Pasadena's barely LA.

It's not, no, very much like on the outskirts. So I've actually spent very little time in West Hollywood, which I have friends there and enjoy being there, but I don't. The least amount of time that I can spend there, the better for my soul. Talk more about that. I feel like it is, it's an unfamiliar place to me. It's not a place that I know know I don't know what the rules are I

the rules are you're successful and everything else flows from that flows from that yeah yeah but it's to do

it's the most hierarchical place on earth but it's also a place that like as you said it's paradoxical it's actually there's a wealth of creativity that exists there

but the foundations of the city feel like paper thin. And I'm always curious. I think you have to be born and raised there to understand your way of navigating it. And that's not to say I'm not naive enough to assume that I'm going to be able to wash my hands of that place. It's not going to work like that. But if I'm, say say doing a press trip there i will try and condense it to the least amount of time possible i'd rather get in and out of there

in three days and fly and do that like long off flight then have the comfort of being there so when i try to imagine what you when you had you know a huge hit with After Sun and Normal People, and you're suddenly like the hottest ticket of young actors, you know, one of them like tipped for huge stardom, right? Which you still are, by the way, but we're going back. Before that. Yeah, we're going back three years when it first happened, because the moment when it first happened, it's like, okay, we've got a new guy.

Well, I missed all of the Hollywood journey with that, because it was COVID. That saved me a little bit. Because I experienced the kind of ascent with stabilizers on. It was like, I can't leave the house. You do a day of interviews and then you close your laptop and you're in your living room. Where were you living? I was in Clapton at the time. Hackney area. Hackney area. Like hipster.

I mean, does that surprise you? and I also fell out of love with London immediately at that time at that time I was like this is why? because it was COVID all my

the friends that I'd moved over with were also Irish and they as I was moving over were like I'm not doing COVID here I'm moving back and I didn't want to like

burden my family with taking over the living room all day talking about myself and acting for 12 hours. And during COVID, the house just wasn't big enough to absorb that. And then that's when the whole public-facing paparazzi finding out where you live, which I still don't know how they figure that out. They found out where you lived, did they?

Yeah. Little bastards. How soon after normal people dropped? Days. Days. So they had an inside man, maybe. Yeah. And normal people dropped? Days. Days. So they had an inside man, maybe. Yeah. And when I find that person,

that was a gesture for this. The thing is, you just did the noise and you didn't do the gesture. Yeah, I just did the noise because I was doing it for the folks of Podcastland. Yeah. So you come out the door and you see a little guy with a...

See a little guy. a see a little guy hiding in the bushes Fury like I can tell you like you felt Fury oh or he was called Fury both

no enough in Ace Fury and everybody's like don't do anything but there's something seriously I just wanna like Sean Penn on his ass

yeah or do you remember the like famous is it the video of like Woody Harrelson coming out of LAX when he sees the person with the and he just goes fires the camera off the ground. I just like

I think that's fantastic. But it gets you a bad reputation, believe it or not. And I understand that. I understand that, but the fantasy is real. So what did you do? I stayed inside more. Really? I there's like the trick of the trade that I was told was wear the same clothes twice so that the photograph is worth less. Because what you

can do I think is retain a publicist, take the photos on your own time and sell them. You seem like that kind of person. Imagine. And I'm convinced that, like, I thought that, like, I think there's people out there that call the paparazzi on themselves. You don't think. They definitely do. Yeah. Who does that, do you think? Cillian Murphy.

Exactly. It was exactly what I thought. Yeah. No. So that was London time. And then I went away and filmed for a year, basically, and made some work. What were you filming then? I went and filmed The Lost Daughter and Carmen and God's Creatures.

Yes. And then I filmed After Sun. So that was like 2020 into 2021. And then I spent time in LA, but that was before anything had come out. So I didn't move to LA with a kind of like, I'm going to go over here and press. I've only had one ever work meeting in LA

and it was for Gladiator. Really? Yeah. What I'm getting is that moment, I know it's three years ago, we're going to move on, but that moment when you realize, oh shit, this is not just a hit,

it's a mega hit. And I am the biggest thing that ever hit Hollywood. Right? No, that's what was going on in my brain and you must have been you know in certain respects exciting as you said like now i've got at least a few years yeah grace in which i could get bored of do a bunch of flops right yeah exactly and then you're thinking that's breathing space are you also thinking i mean it must, is it terrifying as well? And also, was there not a moment where your team, they're saying, okay, lockdown's over now, Paul,

you need to come out and do some meetings. I want you to press the flesh, meet all these people. No. I'm not good in a general meeting. Really? I know that about myself. If there's nothing to talk about. Do actors not do that anyway or do they?

It's just like,'s just a personality thing some people are good at general meetings I know that I'm much better in a meeting if there's a script to read I truly don't have the confidence to go in there and feel like I can wow somebody with just a chat over coffee you can wow someone

I can't you can wow them with your eyes closed it just kind of makes my back go up a little bit I think I'd love to try and wow people with like work

or or my friend like in that capacity or your body my body that's the that's the main aim speaking of Hollywood BS

did you enjoy the Oscars? I would have thought that was almost like the epicentre of all that but that is the it's to do with work like the fact that I was nominated for an Oscar for a film that typically should never have been in that conversation is something

that I have a tremendous amount of pride for. You got a nomination, your nomination was for Best Leading Man. Yeah. And is that the name? Best Leading Actor. What's it called? Best Male Actor. Best Lead Performance. What's it called? Best male actor. Best lead performance by... I can't remember.

You were the one nominated, and you lost to Brendan Fraser. I did. That fucker. But just getting in a fat suit, that's not acting. Don't you go down that road with me. What?

Don't you start. His performance was terrific. I'm just saying what we're both thinking. Nope. That was a great time though. Like getting to meet, no, seriously, getting to like go from like event to event

with like Colin Farrell and Bill Nighy. Is that who you were hanging with? Yeah, predominantly. And the kind of the Banshees of Inishere crew. Right. Yeah. The Irish like to just stick together. Yeah. Martin McDonagh. Yeah. Was he there? Yeah, he's a Vinnie Sheeran crew. Right. Yeah. The Irish like to just stick together. Yeah.

Martin McDonagh. Yeah. Was he there? Yeah, he's a friend of mine. He's an immense human being. Very talented. Very, very talented, yeah. Were you disappointed to...

You don't lose, I wanted to say that. No. To lose the Oscar? Because you lost it. I did, I lost it. And there's no prize for second place, we know that. No, I mean... Like they say, the nomination is the victory,

but it definitely was the victory at that point. I think it can be a bit of a poison chalice if you're ever winning and you're very, like a young actress. How do you follow that up? I think that's the difficult thing with winning in general. It's like you're put on this pedestal and, I don't know, it just definitely was a sea change moment for me.

I get that. It reminds me of when I won my first BAFTA. How many BAFTAs have you won? Only three. Only three? Stop it. They're TV BAFTAs,

they're not the real thing. How dare you? I won a TV BAFTA and I held it with grace. like I said. Hi, I'm Louis Theroux, and you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now, back to my conversation with Paul Mescal. Just kidding, Paul Mescal. Should we, so we were on a long detour, and then we were going to talk about your injury. Yes. Meskel.

So we were on a long detour and then we were going to talk about your injury. Yes. So on the Saturday before starting on the Monday, this is my final game. We were playing in the club championship at this point, playing against a team called Moorfield in a county quarterfinal. I went out to reach for a ball out in front of me and got clobbered across this side and broke my jaw. Played on because the physio said that it's... I actually can't remember. What were you thinking when I just said that?

About the person's name. Oh, yeah. So did they stretch you off? No, so basically the physio came on and was like, you're all right. You played on, why didn't you come off? Because if somebody tells you it's okay, you don't want to believe that you have a broken jaw. I was relieved.

I was like, I'm in a bit of bother here, but the thing I'm grateful for is that I didn't get another slap on it because the when I went to get x-ray obviously it was broken and the doctor was like if you'd got another slap on it

it would have shattered then I went into rehearsals on the Monday and had to seriously literally rehearse with my teeth I wasn't wired shut

but I couldn't obviously open my mouth but that was the learning that was like okay these two things that i love don't coexist like the world of sport and the world of acting don't live side by side unfortunately so we should um well we should talk for a minute about all of our strangers shouldn't we although it's the kind of film where you can't talk about it that much

because it would spoil it and i think part of what felt special when i was watching it was not quite knowing where it was going or even what genre it was in but it's a love story it's a it's a love story both a familial love story and a romantic love story um and i think it's fair to say the central idea in the film is that adam andrew scott's character is in the process is that Adam, Andrew Scott's character, is in the process of being able to revisit his parents who died when he was 12 in a car crash. I wouldn't even say that. Well, no, because everybody in the trailer can see the Claire Foy and Jamie Bell are in it, Louis,

so it's obvious. How many times have you gone in to see a film and you haven't seen the trailer? Quite a lot. Really? Yeah, I think so. I love trailers first of all

so many films nowadays you watch at home on you know on some platform or other so the idea of it's

I might go to the cinema well I'm just gonna stick to my guns on I wouldn't even have said that because I was thinking when I was watching who are they? the first time he meets

his see I'm doing it now his dad I'm gonna say it because you've spoiled it already i was like oh is he picking a guy yeah it's it's wonderful it's brilliant yeah it's so exciting and then you're like what is this what's happening and then you're trying to figure everything out yeah don't say anymore no well yeah but i just what were you gonna say i just want people to see it in the theater i think it's important to this it's so easy to wait for things to come onto a streaming platform and i'm really not that guy it's like you have to but i i think with this i'd urge people to go into a room because i think

my experience of seeing people watch it in the theater it can be and has been a very cathartic experience for people seeing it i think it's a film that examines the idea of love through two very tortured souls. I think the message of the film is quite hopeful that if these two people are capable of giving the kind of amazing gift that love is to each other, then I think it's worth watching. I feel like you're always asked about sex scenes.

Yeah, and I've talked about it so much. It is a bit boring. It is a bit. I've talked about it so much. It is a bit boring. I like talking about it, but everybody's got to have read about it or considered it. I can talk about it. Because normal people had a lot of sex scenes that were very powerfully done.

This has a few sex scenes between you and Andrew Scott. Yeah. I think they're important. I think I was talking to somebody in an interview yesterday where Gen Z people were um they did a survey where they were asked about sex in media and sex in films and they were much more inclined to want to see platonic friendship on screens which I think is an interesting comment but and I don't necessarily agree with that I think platonic friendship is absolutely important but I think sex in life and in film is like one of the great human experiences

and when it's done correctly as I think it's done in both normal people and all of us strangers it can really give you an insight into human behavior that we don't we see all the time and kind of like standardized dialogue scenes and I think in all the time in kind of like standardized dialogue scenes. And I think in All the Strangers in particular gives us a real insight into how repressed Adam has become and how out of touch with his own sexuality he has become.

Is that the Andrew Scott? Andrew Scott's character, yeah. He struggles through it. Yeah, he hasn't been having sex for a while. No, yeah. We were talking about you being in the public eye and not wanting to become jaded or feel inhibited. Nevertheless, I think you're quite careful

about what you put out there regarding your private life. Yeah. But I'm just curious about, having said that you want to be open, what is informing the decision to be more private on that stuff? Because some things have to stay, belong to you. And that will forever belong to me. And I just won't, simply just won't talk about it.

Because it's important. Privacy is kind of the only thing that you can retain. It's the only thing you have control over. Because people can say whatever they want. There's a contradiction there though. Of course. Because actually, if you say,

why should I be embarrassed about being drunk? It's not embarrassment. It's definitely not embarrassment. I don't mean about this. Well, you say what you were going to say. No, it's just that. It's just there's certain things

that are no-goes for me. Yeah. But also, I'm entitled to decide what I want to share. That's something I've learned. I can make the rules up for me and they can change. Like I could get to the point where I'm like,

actually I'm sick of people in general and I will go more kind of glass casey. So I guess that's what I was, you know, having said that you've, you want to be obviously real and you're out there, you have a few drinks in the pub, they get some pictures of you, like there's no shame attached to that no but it's altogether likely though not nice that you might be in the pub having a few drinks with someone that's yeah very dear to you and that

um what that then looks like but you sort of answered that like basically there may come a time i'm sure there have been times when you've had to retreat or put barriers up yeah but those rules aren't necessarily fixed like I don't have to jump into something that's like heavier but like sometimes it's dictated to about who if the subject is just me I find it easier to be open but if there's other people involved I feel an obligation to protect both me and other people but also with my mom for for example, being sick. She's going through cancer. Yeah, she's got multiple myeloma, which is a form of blood cancer.

So the rules with what I feel comfortable talking about and sharing are dependent on the people that I love who are involved, you know? Yeah. Hi, me again, Louis Theroux. Just to remind you, you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now, back to my conversation with Paul Meskell. We've got 12 more minutes what do you want to talk about what about

this Richard Linklater film you're in yeah that's also one that like not to be obtuse but it's like one that will benefit from the least

is that another one we don't want to talk about it is kind of one that we don't want to talk about because I think the benefit of that is or the kind of artistic endeavour of that is that it spans 20 years and essentially i'm at the

infancy of that project but people who don't know richard linklater a legendary american director who made his first have you seen his first film slacker oh it's amazing which for me was a big film because it was that it was 1991 or or two, and it defined an era. I feel like he has his finger on the pulse of the genre of the film that he's making in a way that I think is, I know it sounds like a basic thing, but it's a really difficult thing for directors to get. I've seen it many times, but on the plane on the way back from LA,

I watched Before Sunrise again. Which is phenomenal, and part of a trilogy. Part of a trilogy. All with Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy Julie Delpy the last one is

After Midnight which might have been my favourite one yeah well that argument scene is one of the greatest argument scenes put to film

incredible and also Dazed and Confused which was a big film at the time Boyhood and Boyhood which is most relevant

that's the most relevant in terms of style it was filmed 12 years I I think. Yeah. Like once a year they'd get together. So you have the real aging process of all the actors. And the thing with Merrily that is just common knowledge

is that it is a film adaptation of the Stephen Sondheim musical that is pre-existing material. Yes, which itself was based on a play written in the 20s. And I don't know about the play, but the musical is told in reverse. It serves as a warning to the kind of world of Hollywood that we were talking about. It starts with a kind of

pure friendship of artistic endeavor and ends with I think a warning of how success can be corrupting if you don't. But isn't it the other way around? Doesn't it start with he's successful as an older man? But successful and unhappy. Yeah.

And then it's told in reverse, so he becomes more happy as he gets younger and less successful. Yeah. Is that about right? I think it's a warning. That's a great segue into you in the future as super successful, like a less happy, less angry Russell Crowe, if you like.

Potentially. Looking back at you now, look at you all dewy eyes. How depressing would that be, though? I'm actually afraid of that. Go on. About being corrupted by it all. Because nobody has any intention of becoming angry and jaded, I don't think. And imprisoned in the gold cage.

Is that the right? Yeah. I think like actors, generally speaking, can be like incredibly painful people. But they actually are like, I love actors. I think that they have this capacity, like this childlike imagination that I think is incredibly intoxicating. And I do want to express that it is my favorite thing in the world is the job that I get to do. I adore it. Which part? The acting? The acting. I love it. I just find it so addictive. It is truly the great love of my life.

It's obviously family and like relationships and friends like but it's the thing that competes with everything even time with family it's like i can fold into that so easily and i just adore it what do you love about it so much the fact that it never you're never going to reach a point it's endless it's like the bar to which you believe is the top, the minute you get near it, it just starts flying away. And just the feeling of when you're shooting a scene and it's written beautifully and you're working with great actors and the director is fantastic, it feels like play. You feel like a child.

And you're getting to express these kind of like intense emotional experiences but you're in a safe place to do it I hopefully don't have to really go to those places in my real life all that much and I think that acting has a therapeutic impact as a result I do things that one person goes through in their life maybe once or twice I might have to do two or three times a year depending on the projects that I select. And I think that adds up, you know? But aren't you always inside there somewhere pulling the levers?

Of course. And sort of pretending? Like I don't believe in that school of acting that is about, like you lose yourself if you're doing your job naturally, but it can't be a pursuit of pain because it's innately self-serving. It's about your experience.

It's about I'm going to torture myself so much and bring this raw kind of intensity to the screen. And A, I don't think it's sustainable. B, I don't think it's all that interesting. But I think the thing that I enjoy about it is the fact that if you're playing you're still feeling all of those things but it's more

sustainable you can have you're feeling the emotions yeah do you lose yourself yeah sometimes like in

and that's good I love it because you kind of like you're still conscious like I remember most of it and then other times

I'm like you see the finished film and you're like I have no recollection of then other times I'm like you see the finished film you're like I have no recollection of I said it to Andrew in this film I was like I have no memory of looking at you like that do you know and that's the satisfying thing I'm like whoa I I remember the scene I remember saying I remember feeling certain things but when you see something that looks like an accurate representation of life or the human condition like when i was like we look like we're in love it's such a privilege to get to play that

like love is the i think the greatest feeling that any human ever ever gets to experience and to get to play that like i'll consciously have to be pulled away from that in my career i know because i love it i love that theme i love it in life i love being in that territory why will you have to be pulled away from it so people don't get bored of me right do you mean that theme of deep love deep love yeah so that you have a more complete kind of palette of doing different yeah and i think acting is one of those disciplines that say if you're like a painter or you're a poet you can have a distinct style like if you're like a painter or you're a poet, you can have a distinct style. Like if you're like Monet or you're Van Gogh, you have a distinct calling card or a signature style.

And I kind of wish audiences were more tolerant towards letting an actor exhaust the kind of creative impulse that they have rather than go like, oh, they've done two. It's such a basic response it's like you've made two films that have made me cry please god let paul be happy in something it's like i'm making these choices consciously because that's where i feel like i'm out of my life and they're the things that i want to express and i think there's a parasocial element to it from an audience that doesn't exist in like the art world or the world of literature like where an audience feels like they know the characters that i play they innately tie to me right and they're like please god let paul be happy i'm like i'm fine so when you your thing

was like so you look ahead with fear at the idea of being 53 years old, let's say. That's the beginning of that fear for me. And then it's like, what am I going to do when my body stops working? What am I going to do if my memory goes and I can't remember lines? So you're not worried about becoming too successful? The statistical chances of that happening are kind of like low. Too successful being like it's incapacitating. Like who's too successful in your mind?

Well, you were the one who said you were worrying about something. Forgive me if I'm mischaracterizing that. But I think it's the sense that if you look forward, your world is going to be so strange. It's already strange. Or like strange from the outside. I guess, but you're going to be worth tens of millions of... You know what I mean?

If you're not already. Are you already? I can tell you now I'm not worth that. But you will be. But that is all... You're going to be... Who can we compare? Who's the trajectory that you look at and you think that'll do?

It's not to do with that. It's not the trajectory that I'm aiming for. It's the quality of work it's like somebody like but look but those two things often times go hand in hand it's like look at somebody

like Cillian Murphy he's done it so elegantly he has a distinct sense of self his work is phenomenal and I imagine he's doing alright like

you're going to be way bigger I disagree strongly take that bit out are you happy now? yeah I'm getting I'm fine I'm getting there

what's the problem? just like a lot has changed really yeah lots going on lots going on but also i'm like i'm really happy with where my career is at the moment but i i do need to work towards a greater balance in my life so that i can like there's only so many times you can go to the well creatively if you're not dipping back into real life and I haven't struck that balance now for what is real life for you real life like not on set I can't believe we got with like two minutes to go we got to the fact that you're not that happy I actually am all right but like I don't think I generally have

a happy disposition do you know it's like I wouldn't say that can I I feel't think I generally have a happy disposition. Do you know? It's like, I wouldn't say that. Can I? I feel like. Can I say anything? I don't know if you have the happiest disposition. Me? Yeah. You barely know me.

I know, but that's why I'm going off. Are you like, would you define yourself as a happy person? I think that's what I'm getting at with that. It's like. I'm fine. Yeah, I'm fine. That's what I mean. I mean that in essence.

It's like, it's not a loaded thing. Like, I'm not doing well. I'm not doing great, but I'm fine. That's what I mean. I mean that in essence. It's not a loaded thing like, I'm not doing well. I'm not doing great, but I'm not doing bad. I'm like, I'm fine. Do you still see a therapist? Yeah. How often? I just lied about that, actually. You don't see one? I've stopped seeing her for a little while.

How many lies have you told in this interview? I feel like that's indicative that I haven't told a lot. I don't. So I am going to go back and I'm going to find a new therapist. Yeah. That was it. That was our wrap up. We wrapped. Great.

Thanks, bud. Oh my God. That was great. I really enjoyed that. I hit all my... Did you? I'm glad to hear that. No, I really did.

I've never talked for that length of time. Thank you, man. Ever in my life. Well, thanks, bud. Thank you. Yeah, good to hear that. I really enjoyed it. I in my life. Well, thanks, bud. Thank you. Yeah, good to do that. I really enjoyed it. To see you and chat with you properly.

Nice. I haven't told my mum I'm doing it, so she's going to lose her fucking mind. Jeez. hi i'm back so i think you'll agree that was a great chat and um and in in a way the fact that at the end we sort of seem to reach this next level is maybe all to the good because I actually feel like Paul, well, I'm going to blow my own trumpet and say, I think he enjoyed the chat and that the fact that it was mainly in a major key, in a lighter mode was part of what made it enjoyable. And that if Paul is is you know in any

way if there are things he's dealing with how could you not be you know in in a sense that you know with everything that he's got on his mind like with with a level of success he's achieved a level of scrutiny he's having to experience and and in a way to an extent like you can by participating in a conversation about that too much, by revealing too much about what's on your mind and on your heart, you can get into a feedback loop. You know, who needs clickbait headlines saying, Paul Mescar, my private agony, you know? Does that make sense? In other words, I feel as though he said exactly what he wanted to say and he's figuring out to some extent as he goes what the boundaries are and how much he wants to

put out there and he's learned from bitter experience that there are literally at times people in the bushes taking pictures and you know intruding on his privacy. And I think he talked about his fury. I actually watched some things that didn't come up in the chat. Obviously, After Sun, but also God's Creatures, which was also really good. And the incredible, possibly his finest work sausage advert it was funny listening to it back um i think i was kind of it was kind of embarrassing and i once or twice i think i thought it was being pretty funny and then listening to it back i was aware that i was

close to the line with the brendan fraser joke what did i call him i think i said that fucker he got an oscar just for wearing a fat suit that was obviously he you know i didn't love the whale the movie but i did think he was really good in it so uh brendan if you're listening i did you know it was a joke when i called you a fucker um i clearly didn't i didn't mean it i know you've got a good sense of humor and i loved journey to the center of the earth it's family viewing of the highest caliber what was it oh and making fun of or appearing to because i don't think i was making fun of it but running the risk of seeming to make fun of um paul's sort of transformational eye-opening starring role in the phantom of the opera which clearly meant so much to him it was a change in his destiny it was the moment the stars aligned

and then you watch it on youtube and and obviously it's not you know a professional production and i mentioned that and then it looked like i was anyway i think i didn't mean to be i you know listening back it was it felt like oh am i i'm over explaining it it was fine also at the risk of stating the obvious i don't actually think killian murphy's the kind of person who calls the paparazzi so they get pictures of him in fact that's the source of the humor in the joke is that he doesn't seem like that kind of person what the future holds we don't know whether it will involve paul performing reiki on his own penis or what that even means um it's too early to tell i tried performing reiki on my penis last night and um it wasn't as much fun as you might think. I actually didn't feel anything. Anyway, what a lovely man. And I hope our paths cross again. If I'm up Clapton Way or wherever, just in the A-list celebrity circus that

we inhabit. Just a reminder that you can listen to these episodes weekly, wherever you get your podcasts. So we're not just on Spotify anymore. Isn't that exciting? I think that's it. Oh, yes. Credits produced by Millie Chu. The assistant producer was Man Al-Yaziri. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. And the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.